Latest / Skin Anarchy / Dianne Vavra, SVP Press and Celebrity Relations Dior Beauty and Founder of Spotlight Beauty PR

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Dianne Vavra, SVP Press and Celebrity Relations Dior Beauty and Founder of Spotlight Beauty PR · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is your host, Ekta.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh today I have with me Diane Vavra.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: She is the former senior VP of Press and Celebrity Relations for Dior Beauty.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Diane also runs her own firm now and takes on clients that she really believes in in the beauty industry and the skincare industry.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, welcome Diane.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited you're here with us today.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Can you start us off and just tell us everything about your career and um what got you started in the beauty industry and how did it kind of take off for you?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I um I was thinking about this today because I had to write up a little blurb for something and I was trying to like go back in time to see when I first really got involved in beauty and I was looking through some pictures, and I think I have to say, um, probably around age five.
• 1:23
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Realized, you know, when you uh when you know, all little girls first grab their mom's lipstick and make a mess and get in trouble for getting it all over the place.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I knew from an early age.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I um I grew up in Manhattan and in an apartment building, and our next door neighbor was a fashion and beauty writer.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I would always see like all these garment bags and packages and you know, of with beauty products like flowing out the top, like arriving at her door, and I just thought it was so glamorous.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I I kind of always knew I wanted to do that.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I was old enough, as soon as I was old enough to um maneuver around the city myself, not really old enough to work, um like 12, 15, she um she hired me as an intern for her.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um at a magazine like really, really young.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I really, I really, really liked it, but from that I had a lot of different experiences with, you know, meeting people in fashion, meeting people in beauty, seeing how the editorial end of it worked, but I really liked working with the brands directly.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I knew um that I wanted to, you know, do something and go to school for um for communications.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I went to all girls Catholic high school.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I wore a uniform couldn't wait till rebel, and so I went to FIT.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because there, there you really got to just kind of you know display your whole, you know, whatever, wear whatever you wanted, whenever you wanted, didn't matter.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: No one, no one judged.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, creative freedom, creative freedom.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I love that you got started at such an early age into the beauty industry because I I feel like that probably molded a lot of um how you approached it as your career path.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it definitely did.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I when I got out of school, I decided to first send my resume to different agencies because I wasn't really sure if I wanted beauty, if I wanted fashion, um, you know, what I where I wanted to end up in-house ultimately, I knew that was my goal to be in-house somewhere.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started out at an agency, and it was before agencies kind of had things um segregated according to like health and wellness or beauty.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I got to work on a lot of different accounts like Wild Turkey Liquor and All-Napon Airways and and and Liz Claiborne.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I got to know like all of the editors in each category, you know, food and wine and travel and and lifestyle and fashion.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I really liked the beauty editors, I think, the best out of everyone I worked with.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when I when I knew it was time to go in-house after about three years at the agency, I approached Estee Lauder first.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and luckily I got hired right away.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's so exciting.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how was you just like randomly decided I'm gonna apply and Estee Lauder is the only one?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: Or how did you did you enroll somebody?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't I didn't know anybody, but the thing was, um I I don't know.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just for some reason for my prom, I'm talking back in the 80s.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um my girlfriends and I went to Bloomingdales, I think, and we went to the Estee Lauder counter and it was the first real you know grown-up makeup that I spent a lot of.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just had this thing in my head that that's where I wanted to work.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I really think that sometimes you can manifest things.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So lucky for me, that that did work out.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I worked um on the Lauder brand for about three, three or so years.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um at that time supermodels were big.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we worked, we had uh Paulina Porzakova as uh one of the spokeswomen, and that was kind of the first time also that I was able to work with at the time.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm gonna call them celebrities, but you know, at the time they were supermodels, but um it was interesting just to, you know, play an events with them and see how you know kind of navigate that world.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and then I had a brief stint as a I came, I got married during that time and moved to Long Island and I hated the commute, I just couldn't take it anymore.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I see like what what might be available um on the island in fashion or beauty, and you know, evidently the only real job is to work in a mall.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I became market of a shopping mall.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um and that was it was fun, it was good, you know, except I I stayed there for about two years, and then I the day it was my job really to hire Santa.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um a real being that's so cool.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like you interview Santa's, it's crazy.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, there's guys who actually like live for this.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is all they do, and they work for that one month and make you know, bank all their money, and you know, they live, I don't know, in the US somewhere, and that's what they use all year, and it's kind of amazing.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: But uh give me ideas for next year's Christmas special.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna interview some Santa's, but that's pretty cool.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was cool, it didn't end so well because this one Santa, he had a real beard, you know, you want the best Santa.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um he would go to TGI Fridays every night and have jalapeno poppers and get orange sauce all over his beard.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So every morning I would have to send him to the hair salon in the mall to get the beard, beard died, and it was a disaster.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: So one day he supposedly we he was on the Santa set with a line of kids, and he had he claimed he was having a heart attack.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so the ambulance came and they took Santa out on a stretcher, and the kids were crying, and that is so traumatizing.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So traumatizing, like the news media, you know, like local news is like there asking me, Ms.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Vara, will there be a Christmas?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the kids are crying.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was that night.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: I just went home.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I poured myself a big glass of wine, probably drank the whole bottle and just gonna say, poured yourself a bottle of wine.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this isn't for me, you know?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course I, you know, started my mental list of what brands I loved and how I was gonna get back into the city again and take on this commute, a beast of a commute.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um I sent a cover letter to Dior.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the my cover letter simply said, Yes, I live on Long Island, yes, I work on Long Island, please save me.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it was definitely an SOS.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way to look at it.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's so funny.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the HR woman lived on Long Island too.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so she called me and said, Honey, um, we don't have any jobs available, but I just want to meet you because this is the craziest cover letter that I've ever received.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I can you come in?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I went in, and although there were no positions at that time, like maybe about three months later, she called me and said, We have something for you.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I started there as the manager of PR.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um at the time it was a team of two, it was myself and an assistant.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I just basically worked my way up.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And wow, yeah, I started in '98, and it was the same year as um that Galeano started.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so there were lots of changes for the brand and lots of excitement.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it kind of be it kind of went during the time when I was there from your grandmother's brand.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like everyone was saying to me, like, why would you go to Dior?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's such a old brand.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: And oh my god, Dior Dior Beauty is honestly my favorite beauty line.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm yeah.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like I when I got into makeup, I was like, I used to go to like um, well, not when I got into makeup, but like, you know, later on, I used to go to Sephora and just go straight to Dior.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's immediately where I go, even today.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it's really it's such a great brand and it's got such a rich heritage, and um you know, they do things, they do things really well and they do things the right way.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it was great.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was there for almost 20 years.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: So you really shaped the brand, the beauty, the beauty end of it then.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: That yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was definitely quite an experience.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when we start when I started at Dior, I'm trying to think, um maybe it was still like around the time of of models, and then and then it we kind of started hiring celebrity spokespeople.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um that was fun because then I got to, you know, travel around the world with them.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was really a fun experience and things that I never would have done had I been in a different type of career.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: Had you stuck to Santa's.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: Imagine, you know, got all you're still doing it.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like that would have been nuts.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: I like it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like you've had such a such an interesting ride in your career.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's that's really, really cool that you have this, you know, foundation that you built everything on.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's very unique these days to find that.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is, I think.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was I was really fortunate in working for great people.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had great bosses wherever I was, and I really learned so much from them.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, I had a couple that taught me how I don't want to be as a boss.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but for the most part, they really kind of, you know, gave me quite an education.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very, very fortunate.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: I really love that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I it's interesting that you chose uh you chose beauty.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I love that you mentioned that there are, you know, you love the editors the most because you know, I feel like ever since I started this podcast, every beauty editor I've reached out to, I mean, anyone in the beauty industry, everyone's been so kind, you know, and I love seeing that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and for me, like what was so great and what still is so great about that career and meeting the all these girls are that when I started out as an assistant at Lauder, they were all starting out as assistants at the different magazines, and then we kind of all grew up together.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I was at their weddings, they were at my wedding, they were, you know, my shower, they, you know, I mean, it we kind of really grew up together, and it's really interesting to see, you know, I mean, we have pictures of, you know, some press trips that we took together, you know, back in the back in the 90s, and then we get together for lunch every once in a while, well, pre-COVID, and um, and we would take, you know, we would like recreate those those pictures.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Really funny.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we're so tight.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really tight industry, I have to say.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's a good thing though.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like in with in terms of networking, and I'm sure you know much more about this than I do.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I've, you know, uh being in the millennial generation, um, oftentimes we have this idealism of, you know, networking with other women and you know, kind of growing your careers together.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I feel like our generation has lost a lot of that same, you know, like the same like motivation you guys had.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's it's like I you want to connect, but then there's always something, you know, in the way, or you know, it's not as what it like.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: My mom tells me stories as well, you know.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I had these amazing girlfriends and we all grew together in our career.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, I I look back and I'm like, wow, I mean, that was a totally different mindset.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really is a different mindset.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think now, um, well, especially now the way the magazine world is changing and, you know, or has changed and how everything's digital, and you know, people are, you know, there's so many more freelance writers now than there are than there are um writers that are um in-house at different publications.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it's a it's a little bit different, I think, now for um, you know, for younger girls coming into it, um, because you don't have your, you know, your usual Vogue contact, you know, there's you know, there's a contact there, but there's maybe also like 20 freelancers that are doing stories for Vogue too.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's different, but it's it's still fun.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love it.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I obviously like I've been doing it forever, but when I left Dior, um, it was a really hard decision for me because obviously everyone recognizes the brand name, and the editors just, you know, want to have it on their page and in their as part of their stories, and bloggers, you know, want to be a part of it, and everyone wants a piece of Dior.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was always approached by smaller brands asking me for advice, and I wanted to help them, and I I kind of knew what they needed, but I had to non-compete, so I couldn't really help them in the way that I thought you would have wanted to.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I made the decision finally to um, you know, I said, you know what, I'm getting older, I'm hopefully still relevant in the industry.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let me make this move while I can.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so yeah, I left and opened up my agency and the power of LinkedIn, wow.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I mean, yeah, it's it's everything's digital now, so I'm sure it's a huge difference from, you know.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I never really paid much attention to LinkedIn.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, uh, who who even goes on LinkedIn?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: But when I left, I posted that I was starting my own my own gig.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the next morning I woke up and I had five brands reach out to me.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Three of them, because I wasn't sure how many accounts I could handle at once.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was just me at the time, and one of the girls um who I worked with at Dior for 17 years, she came, she came with me.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I had I had three accounts that that one, you know, that same week.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really cool.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Did you know?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: I have a question um before you continue.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did you bring in the the approach you had to Dior Beauty into your own um the the brands you were representing?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things that I always found, and one of the things that I loved so much about Dior, even more so than working, you know, side by side with the celebrities that they that they had.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we had great spokespeople.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: So Charlize Theron and Jennifer Lawrence and Sharon Stone and Bella Hade and Johnny Depp and Natalie Portman.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I spent time with all these great celebrities, but for me, the ultimate thrill was really being close to and working alongside their makeup artists because I got to see like these amazing transformations.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'd always be peeking in their in their bags to see, you know, what products they were using.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And wherever we went in the world, like we would always carve out some time to like run to the pharmacy and you know, just grab some products that were, you know, weren't known to us here in the US.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um just to try and test.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then whenever someone would be going back, we'd you know, we'd have a list of things for them to get for us.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's the best part of traveling sometimes.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I loved working with the makeup artists, and that's something that I still do adore.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I've become very, very close friends with many of them and stayed stayed in contact.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think that yeah, it's great to have a celebrity, it's it's great to have um an influencer.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's cool.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that makeup artists are really the ones that set the trends and the tone.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I always, even at the very, very beginning of my career when no one was paying attention, there were no celebrity makeup artists, they were just, you know, makeup artists.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um we were the first brand to actually hire an in-house celebrity makeup artist.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um wow.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then other brands started following it, and it was it was really cool.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: But makeup artists, I think, are are super, super important as influencers, as celebrities themselves, and really um as tastemakers, I think.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, I I'm always curious about makeup artists and their perspective of skincare because you know, um every I think every good makeup look begins with good skin, right?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, how did you like did you have to have these conversations with them or did they like you know introduce you to skincare products, not just like beauty and makeup?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, they introduced me.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: I became obsessed with skincare because that's really what makes makes the whole look.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can just, you know, having glowing, radiating skin is just so beautiful.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And they know how to make it happen.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I mean when I when I talk about like the transformation that I've seen, you know, in some of these girls that have like really bad skin or rosacea or anything like that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like by the end of this, by the end of you know, their hair and makeup, you cannot tell at all.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: It is I mean, and so I became obsessed with um with skincare and even you know, like just finding a skincare that works well with your foundation so that it's not peeling when you put it on.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I hate when that happens, you know?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, just getting all these tips and trip tricks from the artists.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I never really had the desire to become a makeup artist myself, but I'm always fascinated by what they can do.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of my favorites who I just love to watch all the time on Instagram is Joe Baker.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: She she does such really like unique, amazing looks.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's almost like it's like throwback things, but with a modern twist.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's just such a cool makeup artist, J-O Baker, B-A-K.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't I haven't seen her work yet.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's great.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I mean there's just so many of them.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: I love and and I love that, you know.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think that we uh in any professional field, like there's always room for growth and being able to learn from, you know, like I know in the beauty industry there's just so many um career paths at this point, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: So like having that like combined perspective, I'm sure is extremely unique for um your work.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that you know it's important.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's so like you said, there's so many opportunities.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, agents, makeup artist agencies have a PR person.
• 21:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be a PR person for the makeup artists.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always thought, huh, that could be interesting.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um no, I mean, I'm I'm curious from the PR standpoint now, because I I think a lot of people, um, you know, and I'm included in this mix, like, you know, it's it's easy to blame marketing or it's easy to blame PR for, well, why are these big claims on this bottle of you know, whatever product it is?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, I want I really want to get your perspective about that conversation because, you know, clearly you're not gonna represent a brand you don't believe in, right?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like it's so to say something from a consumer standpoint, like, well, it's just PR or it's just marketing.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, how do you feel about that?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of brands that have these crazy claims.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um I work with brands that Do uh that have really good RD and that do clinical studies on their products.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if a if a brand approaches me and they don't have well, if it's skincare, we're just talking specifically about skincare.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um if the brand approaches me and they don't have clinicals, I won't work with them.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's because it's a it does cost money for clinicals, um, but it's so, so, so important because, you know, if people are having a reaction to something or if it hasn't been tested in certain circumstances, like, you know, in extreme heat or an extreme cold, or um, you know, sometimes like I'll have a product and I'll keep it in my shower, like an exfoliating wash or something.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe like after a couple weeks when I open the cap, there's just like something on it that doesn't look right.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe something something.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's ever happened to you, but absolutely.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, it does, it's a big problem.
• 23:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, if if they haven't been stability tested, that's like a big thing.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that consumers really need to pay more attention before they purchase a skincare product and look on the website and just make sure, you know, what testing has been done.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if a brand is EU certified, that means um certified in Europe, it's most likely they have such rigorous testing that you can trust it, you know.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um US doesn't have as as many restrictions.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how that's why brands can get away with so much.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like just look at what happened with COVID.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, overnight, how many brands came out with hand sanitizers?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know, it's crazy.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you kidding?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there was no testing, obviously.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know, they weren't, you know, and you think that, oh, this is so pretty, I'm gonna use this hand sanitizer, and that you're protecting yourself and your family by using it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, it's it's not even effective.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's no there's no trials.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: I remember when uh COVID happened, I was like, pure all stock is probably skyrocketing at this point.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: But no, you're right, you're absolutely right.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's an investment for every brand to invest in their own product by doing the research and putting those numbers out there because you know, I from like I know there's a lot of scientists and people who have the background and they'll look for that.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: But even as you know, everyday consumers, um, you know, they they want the information, right?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, they want the the real meat and potatoes of you know what makes your line stand out.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I agree with you.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think um pushing for that is very important.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and also, you know, ingredients the fewer the better.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was working with a scientist and and she believes that um her name's Dr.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Elsa Youngman.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: She believes, and her studies have shown she's PhD in microbiome protection um of skin, and that a lot of the skin issues that people have are caused by themselves because you know you have this not you know nine-step skincare routine that you do, or even better, you have three products that you do that you use, and you're so proud of it.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: But when you look at the ingredients on those three products combined, there could be 120 ingredients, and you don't even know what they are.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So she has fine, and she believes that all you need is a cleanser and a serum, and each product has less than five ingredients.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that is just so cool.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: She's French, so you know, her whole less is more, and she's just so chic and fabulous.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um but like this is all you need, and I really believe that, you know, I think, especially during this time, I think we're all going through everything that we have and just seeing that we can do with less, and it's the same skincare.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can do with less, it's okay.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I agree, and I think um, you know, that's really interesting about the microbiome because I, you know, I think there's a lot of uh brands coming out now that are using, you know, there are certain areas of medical science that they're really highlighting in their products, but to do it well is I think the most important thing.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: So the fact that she's got you know, like she's approaching it from like a you know, a research eye is very, very important.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because you can you can slap the name microbiome on something, but like that person has no idea, you know what I mean, what they're dealing with.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's so many people I was researching the other day, just looking online, Googling skin microbiome.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's amazing how many, how many brands just like you said, throw that on their packaging and then people people read about it and they're like, oh, I should get that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's like, you know, remember when probiotic skincare came out?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was like, what do you mean?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like I literally had this like confused look on my face at the time because it was like, well, it's uh it's probiotic and it's got yogurt in it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sitting there thinking, like, well, that's one lactic acid.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh two, I don't know what you think you're gonna accomplish, you know, by just slathering this on.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, so it's like that versus somebody like you know, um, the the line you just described, where it's like, okay, I'm gonna go with the second.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is real research.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so important, like, you know, like she even says, protecting your your skin's microbiome, your largest organ, right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: From the outside, it's so important, and from the inside out.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, she um she has this philosophy that when you're born and you're putting products on your baby, you know, the mom's putting products on the baby or the dad, and it's you know, like I don't want to name any brands because I don't want to have anybody, but you know, there's popular baby brands that are just causing a lot of problems.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then these kids grow up with, you know, eczema.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've seen kids like three, four years old with eczema, like oh gosh.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's probably because like the mom was told, you know, use this product and and the kids have a have a reaction to it, and then forever for their whole life, it's damaged.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're if you're having a baby, like you you really have to pay more attention to what you're putting on the skin of the baby.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: And also knowing like the base point of skin health.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like no one really knows what that is right now.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so I when I see brands coming out that are backed by doctors and they're backed by you know medical professionals, it kind of gives me this sigh of relief because I'm like, oh, okay.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: So they understand because you know, uh in the medical profession, like you can't pretend like there was no past in the patient's life, right?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's always a history, and you know, you have to consider that for everything.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: So when you approach it from that perspective, I think um, you know, you're gonna consider all of the little nitty-gritty things like sensitivity and you know, sensitive sensitization and all of these factors that we don't like talking about, you know, in the normal consumer world.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to actually ask you this because I think um this is very interesting for me.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, in terms of translating from a communications perspective, um, translating over medical research, you know, um wording and stuff into like a you know, I guess layman terms for everybody to kind of get behind.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, do you deal with that on a regular basis?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, how how do you approach that?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's a really great question.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um normally what happens in a brand that really cares, um they will employ a dermatologist or a skin health expert to kind of lay it out for layman.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, they'll do the clinical trials and then they'll kind of lay it out, you know, like skin care for dummies kind of thing.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and because, you know, when you're thinking about packaging, right, you can't if you have a box, a four-sided box, and you want to put so much messaging, you really have to be so specific in your messaging because if you want to sell in Europe, um, you have to have it in English and in French, which is why you see a lot of French on packaging.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not because the brand wants to be like, you know, chic or Europe, because they they want to be able to sell in Europe.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be able to have the room to communicate within seconds to your consumer um what what makes your product different, um, you know, why it's effective, what are the key benefits, um, and what are the ingredients?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's really tricky to be able to communicate that in a way that people will understand, think that it's you know different enough for them to want to try and then um you know, and and be able to create, be able to really with skincare, you really want to create some brand loyalty because you want them to keep coming back and exactly, exactly.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's more about becoming their product of choice rather than just another product, yeah.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I and I agree, and I think, you know, I think one of my biggest questions is like, you know, I know with scientific data, there's always a lot of tables and numbers and stuff like that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I uh and I sometimes wonder why brands don't um publish that like you would in a in an article, in a peer-reviewed journal article, right?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think there's enough people out there that would want to see it like that.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Do you, I mean, from your perspective, do you think that would be a good move if a brand did that, or do you think it's gonna like drive people away?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's a brilliant move, actually.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of brands are doing that now on their websites.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um they'll have like a uh a tab for um for um research for clinical research.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Then sometimes they'll have it like which I love this part, it's like uh maybe a s a short paragraph, but if you want to read more and really get the data, they have that too.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you can, you know, click and get more and more in-depth as you know, depending on you, you know, how much you want to know.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, when you think about skincare too, it's like most of most of the products that I use are recommended to me by friends.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I could read about something, but now, you know, being a being a publicist, you're you're I'm always so um hesitant because there's so much pay for play going on, so you don't know like, you know, did this brand pay for this?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, yeah, exactly.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, and so I usually if I see a friend who just you know whose skin looks amazing, I'll always ask what they use.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And people do the same with me all the time.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I am 53.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think my skin, I maybe like with my skin, I could pass.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're not talking about the rest of the rest of the body, but like we're not gonna go there.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: But um, like just for the I really have skin.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um I think I could pass for like, I don't know, 45 early for I still, you know, I I go with the carding thing, right?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's like if I still get carded, I'm like, that's my lucky day.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: No, I mean, honestly, I think uh, you know, it it's interesting that you mentioned the research um on brand websites.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: I actually haven't seen it.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go check out um more, you know, information on that because I I was thinking about this about a year ago, and that's when I really started looking at like medical articles and you know what I mean about like just skin health.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it just always struck me as odd that it's like such good information.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: Why wouldn't you just put it out there, you know?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: If a brand has it, they should totally put it out in, you know, just to be transparent.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's one brand if you want to, if you want to start just kind of researching just to see how it's done or how it could be done.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's a skincare brand called Codex Beauty, C-O-D-E-X Beauty.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I worked with them for for a while, and they really have done a great job of putting all of their research out there on the website.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, at some at some level you might think, oh, it's a little bit too much, but it really, you know, if you're a skincare junkie like me, you you want to read it all and you want to see, you know, where where is the ingredients coming from?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Are they buying it somewhere or are they growing it in their own field?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, it's it's really interesting to really dig deep.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think you know, it's not always the best option to have a brand that makes everything on their own.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like you know how some people are like, well, we make every ingredient or we have every ingredient from our own sources.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes you have to go out and like explore a little bit.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you might not have the best.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: So okay, I I actually have one more question for you.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: And this is something that I hope helps some people listening out there because I know there's a lot of influencers that right now they're really behind this movement of spreading information and you know what I mean, getting the truth out there about skin care and skin health.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um how would you what do you have any advice for them in terms of integrating that with, you know, the like just the PR of a brand or just the entire, you know, like if they're, for example, really into like vegan beauty, you know, like how should that how should they approach um their little piece um when they're trying to like, you know, promote a brand or maybe fit into the whole beauty industry?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's important to kind of set it up, like I'm trying to think of the best way for me to describe it.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there are some brands that have a big budget and have the ability to have amazing marketing and advertising and have the have the budget to pay for play.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they're very well-known names, you know.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even some some companies that I worked for.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um but a lot of them, you know, aren't as transparent as they should be.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of them have ingredients that mostly the ingredients that are that are really harmful are the preservatives that are necessary to to keep the products um having a longer shelf life.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they could be toxic and harmful and cancer causing and things like that.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, you know, even more important, it's just it there's just so much education that needs to be done when it comes to skincare.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, vegan, of course, is great.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you of course don't want animal testing, you you know, you want organic to some degree.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um degree.
• 37:21
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Some degree you want, um, you know, you just want to make sure that that you know what the ingredients are that you're that you're putting that you're putting on you.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there needs to be more education on the negatives.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are what should you look out for so that you don't have it in your product, you know?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe influencers can like, you know, really kind of hone in on, you know, if you notice something like that's very like stand out, you know, maybe write about that.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know a lot of people just like take pictures.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm asking you, like, they'll take pictures of like products and just post them up.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, yeah, that doesn't tell me anything.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know anything.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm obsessed with this girl, Jessica Diffino.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know if you follow her, but she she's been in the beauty industry for a long time.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've known her for quite a while, and she's really kind of stepped out, and she's very brave in the things that she puts on her um website and her blog, and now she's got a newsletter, and her Instagram is amazing.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And she doesn't put pictures of products.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe very rarely, but she'll have a copy block and it'll have some sort some a thought that you take with you and you think about like wow, you know, I never thought about it like this.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is really something serious that I need to, you know, to to think about when I'm purchasing a product or when I'm recommending a product.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um or like for me, taking on a brand.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've turned down so many brands to work with just because I don't believe in them.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I know that they're not they don't have the best research and they don't have the best, you know, clinicals.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that you know, you can't, you know, and I have a daughter who's 20, and uh her and a lot of her friends all they care about is cute packaging, you know, cute.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they care about.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, did you see what's in it?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you break friends are sitting there with their tongues hanging out and they're like, What?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: No, I know, and I that's why the packaging is like it's the new, you know, the new fad, I guess, nowadays, because it's like everyone's like, Well, what what does the packaging look like?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: I've had so many people recommend things to me based on packaging, and I'm like, there's I mean, there's a brand I'm working with now who I love.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's just such an amazing team of women.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful, beautiful design.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Biography.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the um Instagram is called Deer Biography.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a gorgeous line of four face oils, they're active face oils with very few um ingredients.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say maybe like eight, ten, and under.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, which is great for a skincare product.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was never an oil person.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I always thought, oh, my hair gets stuck in it and then it gets greasy.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like lip, like certain lip glosses I just can't wear.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this brand is just really, really amazing inside and out.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the packaging is gorgeous.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: The bottles, um Oh, I'm looking at it right now.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh isn't it beautiful?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean gorgeous, yeah.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Normally when you have an oil, most oils that you see will be in a brown glass or like dark purple just to prevent UVs from getting through it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: But like but biography, they have a UB UV um protectant on the bottle so that you could see the color of the oils.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're just so gorgeous, and the whole vibe of the brand is so cool.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: You just, I mean, now that you've seen it, you'll just become obsessed.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: And you'll Yeah, I'm looking at it.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: It says like one of them, the product's called Few Words.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: I love that off the bat.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's so cool.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's for men.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one is which I love the anti-aging collagen.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, well, there's a the there's the um the golden ray for collagen boosting, but there's one it's called Petty Grudges.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: And just the coolest thing, and it says, you know, it's a forgiving blend of rose actives that increases skin's elasticity and suppleness while softening fine lines.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I want to be like a spokesperson, but it's just it's just so cool.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the way that the way that they're described and you know, like letting go of your petty grudges when you look at these lines or you see these things that you think are imperfections, just let go, you know.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, and relax and just I love that, you know, and also it's not about being a spokesperson, it's about like discovering, like you just made me help me discover a new line, like it's an experience.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not an oil person, um they have long june, which is they call it noise canceling for your skin, and it's a dry oil.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: You put it on, it absorbs right away, so it doesn't feel oily.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love those kind of products, like they're oil-based, but they they don't feel like it at all.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's so cool, Diane.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so thankful for your time.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: This has been awesome.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm definitely gonna be checking out biography more, by the way.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so uh everyone listening out there, please leave us some feedback.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: If you have any questions for Diane, leave them in the um comments section of the cover art, and I will definitely pass them along to her and her team.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, thank you so much for tuning in and thank you, Diane, for your time.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Have a great have a great day.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: You too.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 43:00
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