Latest / Skin Anarchy / Creating Clean Yet Cult Favorite Fragrances ft. Hermetica Paris founder John Molloy

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Creating Clean Yet Cult Favorite Fragrances ft. Hermetica Paris founder John Molloy · Skin Anarchy

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: And this is working Fridays, and I'm very, very much excited about this one because um we are hosting a brand that I am a huge fan of.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've been um, you know, this has been a long time in the making, and I'm quite excited because they recently launched a brand new scent, and so I can't wait to hear about that, but more so just about the whole brand itself.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very excited to introduce you guys to the co-founder of Hermetica Paris Perfumes, um, John Malloy.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, John.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored to host you.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm really honored to be here.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Ecta.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's it really is um a great privilege to be invited onto your um your podcast.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much for having me.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your kind words.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited to learn all about the brand and of course you as well, because I know that you know, launching a perfume and fragrance line that is so successful, so wonderful, such as yours, can be quite a task.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I see a lot of new brands these days coming out with their own lines.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to learn about you guys and where you began.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if you could uh take a minute and walk us down memory lane and really introduce um yourself to our audience and where the perfume line began.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just got to kind of put in a little note for I am Irish and I can speak for hours, so just be careful to your listeners.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this can be if you've got to take some Somni Fairs or keep yourself awake, now's the time to take it, or else have a big kettle of coffee in front of you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, um joking aside, um I first of all, I'm a co-founder and I I shouldn't start without saying it's my wife who is the the the the the better half of the two of us and who is our artistic director and who works in all the perfume creation with with us in the company.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we're a team of people.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um how did it all start?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how did we create Hermetica Paris?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um well it's funny, I think earlier on we were chatting, you were talking to me about the the white space, the white paper.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: It must have been maybe seven years ago.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um I my daughter came in one day as I was in the you know in the morning time and I had the I had the the cold water running in the bathroom and she turned it off and she said, Papa, you're wasting one of the world's precious resources, that's water.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: You only need one glass of water in the morning, you don't need to keep the tap running.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, me being an Irish person, the lovely, the sound of fresh, cold running water in the bathroom in the morning is fantastic.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of dawned on me if my seven-year-old daughter is already educated on what is a precious resource in the world in schooling at that age, and what are they going to think, or what are my kids going to think of their parents in 20 years' time?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: What will their parents have left on the perfume industry?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we built some wonderful perfume brands that are sold in many countries, uh, and that's a thief.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: But what have we changed?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: What have we really made?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: How we show, you know, shook the market.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where my wife and I we thought about what we could do really differently um to break up and to shake up the market.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when we came up with the idea with Hermetica Paris.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the idea about Hermetica Paris?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was to have a fragrance that was constructed and made in a completely different way to what's available in the industry by respecting the world and by being extremely more conscious.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: We like to call it conscious beauty, some people call it clean beauty, but the idea was to try and be as conscious, to be as sustainable, and to think of everything down the line.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we started by having normally in most perfumes, you you you you you make your formula and it's an alcohol-based perfume.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what helps it project, it helps the perfume um, you know, rehab have a sillage all the way around you.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: When you walk into a room, it's the alcohol that really helps.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's fantastic, it's been working for years and it works very well.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we said, let's how can we change that?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: How can we do it?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we took a skincare base.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: We started with a skincare base that has a moisturizer in it for your skin, that has a small bit of SPF.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then we started adding the different ingredients, the most sustainably sourced ingredients, not always 100% natural, because 100% natural doesn't mean sustainably sourced.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to really go out and be careful.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Everything we did from having recycled glass and the packaging, um, having you know um um um um biodegradable ink use on all the paper, everything, all the ingredients of the perfume working the whole way down the supply channel to make sure what farms they come from, where they're harvested, how they're harvested, how they're made, um, working with what's called green chemistry.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And what is green chemistry?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's using the byproducts of other industries.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, to make the Lydia of the Valley molecule, we use the we use the the orange rind from the orange juice industry in the morning.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: We could that's fermented, and uh to cut a long story short, you end up having a Lydia of the Valley molecule.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we use a lot of things which are kind of really at the point of technology and very interesting, um, to make sure that our fragrance have a palette of ingredients that have all been thought through 150%.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, Hermetic of Paris, the word comes from the Hermetic Tab, the word comes from alchemy.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what does that mean?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: It meant the first Hermes trigemist was the first Greek um um alchemist master.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he left the Hermetic tables, which were the first scientists, the first doctors, the first of everything when it came to innovation.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: He left these tables, and so we thought that those tables would be a great base for building a brand on a new way of writing new formulas in a new scientific way.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how Hermetica Paris got started.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was a will of people in the fragrance industry to start with a white piece of paper, start using things differently to produce a product.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And how is the product different in the end?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is that when you wear a Hermetica Paris fragrance, it dances on your skin.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than being something when you launch a perfume with alcohol, this dances on your skin and you get to smell the whole fragrance straight away.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to wait for a dry down, a wait to the perfume to evolve.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what makes it very unique in a way it's been made, a unique way to be worn, and a new way.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's what we tried to do.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was our intent.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully it's working.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it is.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, it is.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: What a wonderful, wonderful journey.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is really, really, you know, it's a breath of fresh air, for lack of a better, you know, phrase.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the perfume world, I mean, as a consumer, John, you know, I've I've always looked at it from this lens of I could never see inside of it, you know, the realm of like fragrance and perfumery.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it was as if there were these like walls, you know, always around it, in the sense that I never knew, like, you know, what goes behind fragrances.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: How are they made?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: What are the ingredients?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's going on back there?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, to hear you say that is so refreshing for me as a consumer because I agree with your daughter, you know, I think that it's time that we address the issue of waste.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it had been long overdue for many, many years.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's still, I think we're still working with it now, right?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Across industries.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: But to hear, you know, a perfume brand very boldly come out and say that listen, we're doing it, but we're also not compromising.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're not compromising on quality.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're not compromising on the true experience of a fragrance that you fall in love with.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: That is very unique.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, so I really commend you for taking this on and and doing it so beautifully, you know.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really huge hats off to your wife and yourself for this.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because I really love the line.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fragrances.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it never at first we didn't think we were going to be able to do it.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: It took us, it was such a tough work working with the noses because what we call a nose, we call a perfumer.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: We call them because the French were liné, we call it a nose or a perfumer.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when the perfumers had this first brief, and when Ali Normasnet was working on this, she was tearing or literally tearing her hair out.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get this to work?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why will it work?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: How will we make long-lasting fragrances?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, how can we do it in this matter?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it had to reformat it everything from A to Z.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like someone going to university and beginning a master's and getting a doctorate in something, and then saying, hey, we've got to start and go back again.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what it was.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it intellectually was a great, um, you know, a great challenge, but it was very, very tough.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we nearly pulled the plug on the project a few times.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And at the very end, Alinor came back to us and she was able to make a a sort of a fresh, dry amber fragrance, which was the first fragrance we made was called the source.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was called a green dry amber.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when she was able to put all of this together, um, that that with a fragrance that was so complex, then we knew we could do anything with the brand.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's so once we had the first fragrance, which that's why it's called the source, the source one.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Once we once Ali Nor was able to make the source one, and once Clara validated that fitted exactly what she wanted to do, then we said, let's go, let's continue.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when we started making the other fragrances, saying, if we can do that, we can do anything with it.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: But until then, we were really um pulling our hair out and and and trying to make it work.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: But today, if you look, if you see the fragrances, um they're all built around how it interacts with your skin.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you spray the fragrance, you can touch it.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you should never rub in your fragrance.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Here, you can really touch your fragrance, you can wear it on your hair, you can wear it on your skin.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's natural on your skin, it covers your skin, it's like silk on the skin, and it's got a moisturizer inside.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a different way of wearing the fragrances.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just got back from the US and uh we've got a great partner, you know, with um Blue Mercury in the US.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they they really are also a pioneer in in conscious beauty and clean beauty.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they, you know, they really say, look, they want they want to take it further.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get our customer base, which is very different?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: How can we um you know help you, John, talk to the the the the the the the the conscious beauty American um customers to see how they can see fragrance through those lenses, and I think that was great because when you've got a partner that can help you and that wants to build on this because it's new.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: In the beginning, everything was new.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: We had to teach a new way of selling it, a new way of wearing it, and and now it's just grown and grown and grown.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a phenomenal success.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we're very lucky, but at the beginning, I can tell you we were we were not sleeping for I I would say it was months.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we were wondering, you know, are we doing something crazy?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is this going to work?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how will it be adopted?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: How because people are so used to wearing their fragrance in a certain way.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now we've got you know nearly 20 fragrances in the collection.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's the whole um collection of Hermetica Paris is based around the ingredients.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's always a key ingredient, like amber B.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like a honey type of amber in the fragrance, or like um dark ood, or or or um um peony pop with a peony and pop.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So and every fragrance is what the name is, and that's what's so fun working with this brand.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when you see how they dance on the skin, it's amazing.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we've done now with our team here in Paris is that we have actually created and choreographed a dance for each one of the fragrances.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So each fragrance comes with its own dance as well to really help our customers see and feel that rhythm of this fragrance it has, that movement it has on the skin, the way it flows and the way you can wear it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, letting a fragrance dance in your skin is exactly the feeling we want to have with this, with this, with this fragrance brand called Hermetica Paris.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, I really love what you said.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really glad that you mentioned uh source one, because I was actually going to ask you, that was one of my big questions was this idea that, you know, when I first experienced your line, I was very um excited because I think the idea of layering has been up and coming, right?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: In the in the whole um consumer side of things when it comes to perfumes.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think a few years ago the conversation was ignited by, you know, whether it's influencers or whatnot, and everyone was talking about, well, do you layer your perfumes?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, at that time I was like, I was one of those people, like I have my scent, I use it every day, you know, I don't really think about wearing it with others.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I really had to sit down and be like, well, yeah, that's an interesting concept.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when I first experienced Hermetica's um, you know, the different fragrances, uh, I, you know, using source first and then finding another one.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So say if you're somebody who really enjoys citrus, you know, taking one of the more citrus-based scents and using that to layer on top, it became so easy.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so the first thing, and I think the first thought that came to me was, wow, they just really simplified this idea of layering, you know, for the common consumer.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because oftentimes, I mean, we all talk about layering, you know, our scents and our fragrances and creating our own unique scent, but it's very difficult to do.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it just goes wrong.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you end up overpowering yourself with too many, you know, perfumes, too many fragrances.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like your trail is, you know, you can, you know, you can smell it like 10 miles away.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's a I think an ongoing issue with with consumers for what I've heard.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk to you a little bit about that, you know, this idea of source being the base, you know, it's the first one that you guys made, like you said, and then you know, on top of it, like how should consumers approach as they're, you know, like going through the line and and looking for their like what would be ideal for them?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Should they, you know, should they do that where source is the first one and then they find another one?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or what is uh something that you would recommend, you know, as someone is perusing through and looking at the collection?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think first, if I can go back one step, I I think with fragrances, um the rules with fragrances are there are no rules.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you've got to keep fragrances easy, fun.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, fragrance is just a really enjoyable part of your beauty in your life.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we've got enough rules when it comes to skincare, to makeup, to so many other things in life.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I've always said to people I met them, just don't give yourself any rules of fragrances.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you like it on yourself, those who like you will like it on you.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you've got to keep these basin things.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've really got to wear things that you like.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it comes to a next step, saying, Do I want to lair?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to mix?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to do side by side?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: How should I wear fragrances?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: I always say it's trial by her as well.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've got to try it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's really like I always kind of put it back to looking at um my mom when I was younger.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: She could open up a fridge and she could make anything from all the ingredients.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: If I tried it, it would have been a disaster.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, how does she do that?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, she's a great chef, and yes, um, but it was by trying, by knowing uh half the time she never had to use a weighing scales.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: She'd have to measure things out.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: She could just make a cake like that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: She had everything in her head, she could taste it, add a bit more of this, add a bit, and it always came out perfectly.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's something when someone has been doing it, that happened by trial and error.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the same thing, your fragrances, I would not put any pressure on yourself about layering or mixing.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I would say go for something you love and then try it out and wear it for a day.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to layer it with something else, see how it is.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you enjoy it?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like it?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Often we are built, our olfactive function is built to reject something we haven't smelt before.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a protection force.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So often your nose will reject, say, Oh my God, what is that?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's too strong.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: But give it time, let it adapt.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're if you're built to reject it at first, then give it a bit of time.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you will like it and maybe it will be great.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say, you know, layering things, so yes, we have the source.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we say the source works well with everything?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because roughly 30 to 45% of all the other fragrances have the source in it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really is a base of all the fragrances as well.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we know it goes well with everything in the line, um, which is different maybe to other brands that we've we've got the source in every one of the other fragrances.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's why it works so well with them.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in general, I just don't like to give people rules of fragrance.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a wonderful way of touching our emotions, um, making us smile, taking us back to a memory, making us think of the last time we danced all night long and smiled, whatever it was, it's it's all about joy.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Beauty is about joy and giving you energy.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the more rules we put in it, the more boring it becomes as well.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I would always say just enjoy it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes a lot of sense.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I'm glad you mentioned that because it is about that.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is about, you know, really experiencing something and truly immersing yourself in it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: I completely understand that.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that consumers are shifting these days, right?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are a lot of people shop online.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are more so not going into stores to experience things, from what I've heard, or at least the feedback I've gotten.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I don't do that myself.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So for that purpose, I found it to be really interesting that you guys had this original fragrance, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you called it source, and then you have multiple fragrances.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's for me as a consumer, I saw that and I think it's very interesting in the sense that you can experience the original fragrance, but then you can also build on it, right?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you can keep building on it over and over again, however you like.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's obviously there, but to have that kind of structure, there is somewhat of a structure when I look at it through my lens as a consumer, because it's it's simplifying for me, in all honesty.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that to me is a lot easier than another brand that I might enjoy where everything is named after some very, you know, exotic thing, right?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you're trying to figure out, well, which one is the citrus one and which one is the, you know, the one that smells more floral.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it can get very confusing, I think, for consumers.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think right now we're in a really interesting place with perfumery where it's becoming a household thing to have your own signature scent.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's what I'm seeing on social media, that's what I'm hearing about.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the more we can simplify that for people, the easier it will become for them to really do exactly what you said, which is really enjoy themselves and enjoy a product that they use every single day, you know, that they can take pride in every single day.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what good consumerism is really about, you know, and that's really the premise on which I'd asked that question.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I completely agree with you, you know.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it is, you know, of course, always about enjoying yourself and the product.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I that really leads me to asking you um about this new launch because I really want to learn about what you guys um what you had in mind.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why did you create a new scent?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where did it really begin?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, what is it all about?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you could kind of give us a peek into it.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, um, just to go back on just on one thing you said there about the the fragrance and people want to be individual.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are um using fragrance for customers and I talk to, um, and I think you're very right.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: You said it's more like becoming part of their wardrobe.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Before people had a scent or a signature scent in the past, and but they didn't wear the same clothes every day.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what's happened is people now have seen the importance of scent in their everyday of kind of basically, oh, I'll match that fragrance to my mood today.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wear this wonderful, you know, colored, red-colored shirt and whatever color pants or whatever color um, you know, dress or skirt or whatever, and I'm gonna match my fragrance to my wardrobe today.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what's happening a lot with people as well.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what we've tried to do to help our customers from listening to them as well is to make discovery kits.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we've started the brand the very beginning where you can buy a little discovery kit and discover the source and seven or eight other fragrances together or six fragrances together, and therefore you can try them out for a whole week, and then you can go back and pick the fragrance that you would actually think is the best on you.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you can actually go ahead and buy at home, try at home, wear at home, enjoy at home, and then eventually, you know, go out and splash out and buy the fragrance that you really love for yourself.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think Pete Vi was out there giving you advice where I say, really go, guys, go get a discovery kit.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, that can help you get into a brand, try everything on your skin, how it is, and then go pick the fragrance you want.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can build up your own type of wardrobe, like you have with clothing, with your fragrances as well, and really enjoy fragrances to that extent of having different types of looks in your fragrances.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe to answer your last your lot, your lot, your question there about the ladies.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we had a fragrance come out called Paloph.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so all of the names in Hermetica, we try to have them so people can online understand quite quickly through the name of the fragrance.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So palm, palmelo flow.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is like a flowing citrus fragrance, uh, pomellos are from the grapefruit family.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, people, it's got a wonderful bit of rhubarb in it as well, and it's got this wonderful um um jasmine as well, an Egyptian jasmine, but palmlo flow, the main note is palm okay so coming out in the summertime, this fresh citrus, um, energizing fragrance, um, just really giving you that extra step, that extra bounce when you're walking, that extra um lift when you're dancing.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's we try to bring out in a very simple way.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But what is pomelo flow?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's a vibrant composition that likes to take its time, you know, from this wonderful citrus zest, you know, pink pomelo cord, and this tangy, fruity character, which is enhanced by this wonderful Egyptian um jasmine absolute, bringing it together to give you this, you know, floral, citrus uh twist.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what makes it fun with fragrances.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: To find an ingredient you like and then see how they've been combined with other ingredients to find you know a bit of fun.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and that's what we try to do.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's an example of of the latest launch is Pomelo Flow.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's in a very enjoyable this time of the year.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um it gives you a bit of cooling and it's it's very refreshing.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's I I love that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love the name as well.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's very um very enticing.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I myself am a huge lover of like citrus scents and just fresh scents, right?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: In general.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of um Americans are, uh from what I've heard at least.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think it's a great fragrance.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried it myself and I really enjoy it.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with all of your fragrances in the line, I mean, they it really holds true what you said, which is that they're very unique and that, you know, no matter where you spray them, you don't have to put all this work into thinking about, you know, am I putting in spraying it on the right place on my skin and all of that stuff?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because they they're wonderful, you know, whether it's on your clothing or hair, like you mentioned, they're just wonderful and they last.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's the big thing, is that's they really last.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and from a science perspective or from a chemistry perspective, I wanted to always learn about that was what is it that makes them last?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's are they oil-based or I mean, how does that work?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you could tell us about that as well, because I mean, I don't have to, you know, fresh up my uh the perfume when I'm wearing it, you know, throughout my day and as much as I would normally, you know, with especially with like a citrus scent.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um any any insight you have for that?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um I I think you know, longevity with a with a fragrance, um, it depends on a lot of things.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Also, um, first of all, it depends on all of us.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're all we're all different.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, fragrance is always gonna be slightly different in everyone's skin, um, because we are all different and we are all unique.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the whole idea of the alchemy on of the fragrance on your skin.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why does it last so long?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people often say because it's the concentration.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, in fragrance industry, you've got what's called a uh an uh an eau de toilette, and then you've got an eau de parfum, so the French thing.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: So an eau de parfum is a higher concentration, it's usually more expensive than the eau de toilette, and then you can have an eau fraîche, which is like a fresh water, uh toilet water, or you have your um uh pure perfume, and then you can have a concentrate, which is even even stronger.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you have all these different definitions that are always written on on a bottle.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at all of the hermeticas, they are all eau de parfum.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And an eau de parfum is which is the the luxury um concentration in a fragrance.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: But what makes the really the fragrance long lasting is when you're actually building the fragrance with the perfume or the nose.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we do that?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: We actually wear it.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I would, you know, my my darling wife, I think she's reaching over to give me a kiss every morning, and actually she's reaching over to grab my my left hand and to see is it still lasting um throughout the whole night, the fragrance.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really by wearing it.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we wear the fragrances before we bring them out to see how long they last, um, and to see how how they hold on your skin.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's really important because for us, our noses don't have, or our perfumers don't have a budget.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have to buy certain, they can buy whatever they want.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: The palette of ingredients is completely open to them as long as they are within the the our conscious beauty or our clean beauty guidelines.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, they can use whatever they want, and we really push them to pick the longest lasting uh uh and the greatest ingredients.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when they have, when you've got a creator who's got that sort of um openness um to use the best, they always will use the best.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I think the whole niche perfume industry has really helped a lot of the consumers find fragrances that do have that um quality, um care and individual touch, because you have got a lot of individual people who are building these brands and wanting to put um the very best of ingredients into the brands and to make something even more individual.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we we if you want to ask us cut that short, what makes a perfume long last long lasting?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a combination of the quality of the ingredients, the concentration of the ingredients, and how the brand owners, how they've worn it to see how long it lasts in different conditions.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be if you're in a really high, you know, if your office has got a lot of aircon as we have today, often you know your fragrance can you might have to wear a little bit more if you're in a very hot environment, if you're it so it all depends on a lot of things.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think really you've got to find a brand that you trust in, that you know makes long-lasting fragrances, and and then you find if it's an eau de parfum, you've got a first sort of guarantee that it should be long-lasting.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and that then that that's really it.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can't, some preference you can add in a higher concentration of a note and it will last even less because the effect is not always linear with ingredients.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, it's about finding a fragrance that you've tried in your skin that lasts long.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Look for an eau de parfum on the bottle and look for a brand um that has a good reputation for making long-lasting fragrances.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, I love that um response because I agree with you.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it should come from a place where the founders have put in that much effort, you know, and it's so refreshing to hear you say that because honestly, I'm not in it, like I said very early on in the episode, you know, I really did not know much about fragrance.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as just a general consumer myself, I have always seen the fragrance world as this very hazy gray area, you know, where it was like magic was happening behind these walls.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then to not know, you know, how it all came to be, I mean, it really um that sheds a lot of light for me, is what I'm trying to say, because that tells me that you guys have really put yourself into this, you know.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly as a consumer, I think what we all want to know is that, you know, have the founders poured themselves into making products that they believe in, where they are wearing them themselves, they're testing them themselves.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because with perfumery, oftentimes as consumers, we hear, well, you go to a lab or a manufacturer or you know, a perfumery house and you let them take over and they are the ones that decide everything.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really nice that you are being so open and transparent about this and that no, we actually wear them ourselves, we try everything and then we bring them out.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's important, you know, that matters.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's not talked about enough in this industry, you know.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I was having a conversation with a perfume expert, you know, a while ago from one of my episodes, and we were discussing this concept of how um these days we have a lot of people just buzzing about the same scents, you know, on social media, but no one really knows who was behind these fragrances, you know, like no one knows what the process was behind them.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like if consumers knew a little bit more about those kind of transparent aspects, there would be a shift in how we see people shopping.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really believe that because I think there's so much more to of scent or any perfume that you purchase than just, okay, well, I like, I like the feeling of it and I like the smell of it.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it also matters, like, you know, the things that you had brought up, which is, you know, is it clean?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is it doing good for the environment?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something that you truly ethically and morally believe in?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have to ask these kind of questions at this point, I think, in our journey, because we have to vote with our dollars, right?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so to understand that about a brand and to understand all of these transparent aspects, I think for me is a huge selling point as well.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, the hands down, you're making amazing sense.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's the bottom line, right?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, every scent is wonderful.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried them, I love them.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, as a consumer, I would purchase it because of that, obviously.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But then you also have this moral and ethical reasoning behind it.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I find it to be so refreshing that you guys are so involved in every step of the way, you know, rather than just saying, yeah, Ecta, you know, we just we let the nose take over and she does it, and then we just send it out.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's unfortunately, I feel like that's what's been going on for many, many years, you know, in the industry.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just don't agree with that, you know, with that kind of uh mindset.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very interesting what you said.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I think what's happened, I don't think there's any in the industry, I don't think industry has tried to do anything that hasn't been, you know, correct.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think really what's happened is that, as you said yourself, now it's more, it's come out more who the noses are.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: For example, Clara wrote a book nearly 20 years ago about the 22 perfumers in creation.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're going back 20 years ago, it takes a while for industry to change.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: No one really knew who the noses were behind brands or who the perfumers were.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: No one knew who they were because brands never communicated on them as a creative force.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was always the name of the fashion house or whatever it was.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: So when Carr brought that up, that was kind of the turning point of a lot of the niche industry started about 15, 16, 17 years ago, was talking about the importance of the brand owner and the relationship with the perfumer and the nose.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got to remember, these nose, the perfumers, they've spent, you know, 10 to 15 years, you know, studying and working and trying.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: These are real experts who've got an olfactive memory, which is amazing.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they can, you know, if you're working in the fashion industry, you can see 20 different colors of black.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not working in the fashion industry, you see black as black.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing with maybe a rose and a nose, a nose, you say rose, and they can maybe tell you a hundred different rose smells they have.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: As for someone else, might think rose smells like rose.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's an there, there's enormous genius to noses and to perfumers.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of them, it's not known how special and how created they are and how important they are in the whole process.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what we've tried to do is to bring the nose forward.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: But being um and explaining how we work with the nose and also we work with the same noses on a long-term relationship, because we find it's very important to build that relationship between you.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they know what you like and what you don't like.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like in all good businesses, they're all built up by good relationships between people.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So with with um with Hermetica, not only do we say that, but actually we plant a tree for every bottle sold.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we plant trees in Indonesia where we get a lot of our ingredients and also in Madagascar.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: So for every bottle that's purchased, there is a tree planted.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's also something we like to do as well because we feel that it's it's something that means and it can be calculated and it's true, and you can see it.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's working with ingredients, it's working with people who care, uh, it's working with fun um um um choreographers, making a dance for each fragrance.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's about dreaming, dreaming about these wonderful ingredients, how they are on your skin and how they make you feel you want to dance every time you wear them.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the essence of what we do at Hermetic of Paris.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: We want people to smile, feel beautiful, uh, and to wear the fragrances so they feel that extra step in their dance.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um and at the same time, as I said before, do things, try to do things as most responsibly as possible and maybe give back through this tree planting initiative as well.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's so that's very unique about the trees.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we definitely need more of that.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think uh, you know, we're definitely facing this crisis globally where there are definitely a huge lack of giving back as, you know, in comparison to what we're taking.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I love to hear that.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's really unique.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And especially, you know, uh being someone who's looking at the I see this a lot in like, for example, beauty, you know, like brands coming out and saying this uh overall, but in fragrance, I don't see that a lot.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really refreshing to hear that.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, with this whole clean perfumery concept that you had brought up brought up, like I I'm really curious to see how this evolves, you know, in the coming years, because it's very for me, I never thought that you could do that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you had said this very early on in the episode, and I I still find it to be so intriguing that you were guys were able to make this happen because with scents and and perfumes, I thought when the extraction process, like you had to have like these extremely um, you know, just very pure raw materials and you know, all this stuff.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I, I mean, obviously, I know nothing about that.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's refreshing to hear that you were able to come up with a way to make it happen, you know, and and I think that that gives a lot of hope to all of the people out there that might want to start a line, you know.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it can be expensive.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, in terms of that, I would love to get your advice for budding entrepreneurs because I know a lot of them tune into our show and and just kind of give your, you know, uh words of wisdom, if you could, offer them to them about you know, starting a line.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if they do want to go in this route of keeping things clean, keeping things sustainable, you know, where could they start?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think the first place to start is start with what what what they like themselves.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you look at most brands, they were built, or most of the best brands in the world were built by families and or by families.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they did things because that was the way they did things and because they had some tradition and they respected that and they had longevity, and that created what we call the brand, um, the brand cornerstones or the brand foundations.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think anyone going out there that wants set up a brand, I think you've got to start by putting down what you believe in, because then it's not like a job, it's not like uh if you do every something every day you believe in, and if you do want to make changes and you do want to change something or help someone um the introduce preference someone in a new way or in a different way or set up your own brand, you've got to just go ahead and do it, and then you've got to um you know take take the time.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's it takes a long time to build a successful brand.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: I look at brands and them like humans without being this in a very simplistic way with regards to age.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, a brand when it's one year old, it's like a toddler or two years old.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: When you know, when a brand is 12 years old, it's a young, you know, teenager.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just becoming a teenager, it needs supervision.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: It can't be out by itself.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: When a brand is 20, 21, okay, it's 18, it's free, you know, it's 20, it's still in university, it still needs a bit of a bit of guidance or it asks you for funds.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then afterwards, that it evolves into something mature.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's like that.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to say to yourself, I'm gonna build a brand, this is my way of looking at it.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to take it through the 18 years of development until it becomes an adult, and then you've got a really strong, solid brand if you get it that far.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to try and develop a brand and just do it for a year and then change your mind into something else next year, it's very hard.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to really have a passion for it, you've got to love brands and have a vision of the world.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think a good brand is a vision of the world, and that's how I would describe a brand.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: So a brand should have its own vision of the world that can be similar to yours, but you have to explain what the vision of the world is to people, and then they can feel that's part of my lifestyle, that's part of my vision.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: I like that brand because it it echoes what I feel.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I really feel anyone out there that's got conviction and has got a lot of endurance, you remember that doing a brand is really, really takes up a lot of time, energy, resources, your time from friends, family, everyone.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got to be able to dedicate that to do it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it but it's well worth it if you can do something you love doing, because then it doesn't seem like work.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, those are really uh, you know, just it's just great advice, you know, overall.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I really resonate with everything you said.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for everyone listening out there, um, it's I I think if you're going to start something, I mean, John said it so beautifully that you really do have to understand why you're doing it.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: I completely, completely agree with you.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's too many brands as is, and it just, you know, becomes redundant if you don't know why you're doing what you're doing.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people call it the white space or whatever, you know, the term is at the time, but it really is about finding a solution or whatever it is you're doing.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I oftentimes see many people just say, well, they think it's like a quick, get rich, quick thing.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I come up with a brand or whatever concept.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is working.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let me, you know, hop on that bandwagon.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, that's just not how it works.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that you said that it takes so much of your energy because I think many young entrepreneurs don't know that.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they don't understand that there is a lot of investment here, you know, both financially, you know, emotionally, psychologically.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of stuff.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um great, great advice, John.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I really love the brand.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's Aharmatica is such a beautiful line.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's every scent that I've tried, I've absolutely loved.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys are definitely doing something really great here.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm a huge fan.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for giving me the honor to host you and and to learn from you.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, look, thank you very, very much.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a real pleasure.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that um uh your listeners um can really, you know, maybe go find find a discovery kit and try it out and discover and do that, discover it and and see and hopefully that they will find something they love.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, otherwise, one day maybe they'll be bumping into a store and they'll see the brand Hermetica Paris and go, oh, that was the one I listened to uh a year ago on a podcast and try it out.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is how things is it's funny how we bump into brands.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's bumping into brands is kind of fun.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to have it today, you can bump into it, and then it all comes together.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a lovely, lovely meeting.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm glad our stars have been aligned and crossed.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um thank you very, very much for your time.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: And for all the listeners out there, thank you guys for tuning in.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I really, really encourage you to yes, go check out the Discovery um kits on the website.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also I will be linking everything in the concept art for this episode.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: I really urge you guys, this brand is so wonderful, especially for this time of year.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: They've got some really great options um for really fun scents for the summertime.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really, really urge you check it out.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, let us know what you think.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you've already tried Hermetica, um, you know, let us know what your experience has been.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, any feedback you guys have is so important to us here at Spinker Anarchy.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I love hearing from all of you.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: So please chime in, let us know what you think.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And John, thank you again.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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