Latest / thefashionroundtable / Weizdhurm Franklyn: Luxury Pricing, Couture & Client Drama |S2 E3

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Weizdhurm Franklyn: Luxury Pricing, Couture & Client Drama |S2 E3 · thefashionroundtable

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: This episode is brought to you by Flutterwave.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Check out flutterwave.com.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Some designers make clothes, and some make you wonder, how did they even make that?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Wisdom Franklin is one of them.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: From self-taught designer to building a distinctive fashion house known for its sculptural, experimental work, her journey is as fascinating as the clothes themselves.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: But what happens when art meets business?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: When you're building in Nigeria, protecting your ideas, you're dressing celebrities, and you're trying to take an African fashion house to the global stage.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Today, we're talking about the artist, the business, and the ambition behind wisdom.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Franklin, my name is Bimi Olaterio Lagbeghi, and welcome to the Fashion Roundtable.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Abelia, welcome to the Fashion Roundtable.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm happy to be here.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to have you here because I have been a long admirer of your work.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've been I've been searching for this email.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I sent you this email.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: There was an email I sent, gosh, I think before even the pandemic.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, when I wanted to know how much XYZ was an outfit I really liked.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: When I saw the press, I was like, nice, nice, very nice, very nice.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I also was at your December show where you showed three collections, beautiful garments of getting all I kept thinking was the cost, the cost, even though it was just the show, the cost of putting together all those garments.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think there were over 50 garments, if I remember.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like the cost.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: This looks expensive.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: This looks expensive.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, the cost.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, as a self-taught designer, what did teaching yourself give you that you feel like fashion school might have taken away?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like being a self-taught designer, um, you get to learn from your mistakes, which I don't think um fashion school would really give that to you.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: You get to really learn from your mistakes.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I've made lots of mistakes, just like being a designer and training myself in this field.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: And apart from that, you really get to create like your own niche because it's almost like when there is a syllable for you to follow in the fashion school, and it limits your for me.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it creates some sort of limitation in a kind of way.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like um being a self-town designer have given me a level of freedom to think out of the box.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have to follow the rules.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: There are no rules to follow.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: From Nigeria to the world, and from abroad back home.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: With send app by Flutterway, you can send money across borders in minutes.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Send to and from Nigeria, the UK, US, EU, Ghana, Egypt, and more.
• 3:11
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• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Send up.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Put your money where your heart is.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: You make clothes that people don't just wear.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: People actually react to these clothes because they're so different.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: At what point did you realize that you were different from other designers?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: I would say from the get-go, I would say from the get-go, but of course, I've been able to filter, I've been able to filter through my creativity.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I would say from the get-go, um, I remember Early and as a designer, um, and my sister would be like, oh my god, like these stuff are so beautiful, but who's gonna wear them?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom would be like, This looks nice.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Who's gonna?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom did not even want me to make anything for her because she felt she felt that my things were just too exuberant.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: But right now she's like, she wants me to, she wants to wear the brand two for seven.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, but um, I've been able to filter through.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I feel like I always knew I had a different approach to fashion, but I've been able to filter through ideas and vision over the years.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was obvious from even from early on that you were doing your own thing.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: You were not following the industry, you're not following trends, you were just doing things in a different way, and it just showed.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, it was different, but it was really, really nice.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it it takes a certain type of person or certain type of woman to actually rock a Wisdom Franklin uh piece.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's the strangest thing you have made or have been asked to make?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: Lord.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um I had to think about this one.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because you've made some very avant-garde designs.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, I would say this one of the strangest, I wouldn't really call it strange.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's not strange.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Unusual.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: But for like unusual is the word.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um I made a cape, a cape, a jacket for a private client, and it had like elephant tusk.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Real ones.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, real, not real elephant, but we I got to work with like an artist who carved the elephant tusk, which was coming out of the outfit.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: But it didn't look gimmicky.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: It I got to make it because there is a thin line between couture and costume.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: So um, and I know the thin line.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: I try not to cross that line.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I got to make it very much in a Kutter way and not to look costume.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: When did you start making money?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a starting point.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: So um when I began the brand, I didn't make any money for about three years.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was basically living off acting money from my mom, my like, so I would make basically basic things for like my brother's friends with no with no gain whatsoever.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um for the first three years, but for me, there was never like a plan B.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't think about oh my god, I want to, if I'm not making money within two sands or period of time, I have like a plan B to fall back on.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't create a mental fallback on for myself.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: So it was fashion or nothing.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: What's one thing you refuse to compromise on, even if it costs you a client?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: My authenticity.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: I would never compromise on that.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: I've had clients who would send me pictures of um other designers' outfits, and and I'd be like, I'm not making that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not if this if what you're sending is a vision, I get it.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: But if it's for me to like copy it, verbs.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm such a practical woman.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: I have so much pride.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not gonna make it.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a big deal.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then when they send me some things of some other Nigerian brands, I would, I would literally tell, um, I've told the staffs, if they send you anything from a Nigerian brand, send them, send them the brands page.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: You should go in and order the outfit.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's not, you don't have to.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: We can't do a copy and paste, it's not possible.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: What's the most technically difficult garment you've ever made?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you've made this is a good an interesting question because listen, and I'm sure as we're speaking right now, Denise will be showing all the intricates, different things that you've made.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I'm just curious to know like, what is the most technically difficult garment you've ever made?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: I would say something we're currently working on.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are you making it for fashion season?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Are you showing a Lagos fashion reason?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we're planning a presentation.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: So it's something we're currently working on.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's really interesting.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very much technical and the and so one thing about me is I would always want to challenge myself from the last um collection we got to release.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: I would want something that could really test my creativity because I mean, um, lack of thinking makes you a dull person.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't want to be a dull art.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: So um so I definitely would challenge myself every single time.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's not challenging, I would kill the idea immediately.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it has to challenge me.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: What's the longest time you've spent on a particular piece?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I would say about three months.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: Three months, yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Which one was it?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was from our last couture collection.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of a red outfit that has like these detailings on it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And from afar, you think it's just a regular thing, but it took so much time to create.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Each of those things were cut one after the other.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: They had to be hand painted, they had to now be hand-sewn one by one.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: So it's kind of like a labor of love.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that kind of thing, when a piece costs you three months of time to make, let's not talk about the money and the trial and error, trial and error, trial and error.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: How do you even think of how to price these garments, for example?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, honestly, so with garments like those, most people might never want to like order those exact garments, but they might take like um a speck of the creation and we get to impute it for like a private client, and which is what Kutura is.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: You don't really have to remake the exact outfit.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: But you can take like maybe like if it's like 100%, you could take like 20% of the ideas from that outfit and add it to something else.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: Something else.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that makes sense.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when you design, I can't, I I wish I could see like inside of your mind.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: When do you think of the client first, especially like if it's not a collection?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you think of the the client first, the silhouette, the fabric, the texture, or even the story?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: What comes to mind first for you?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there is no one way to think about it.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there is no one way to think about it.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um sometimes you get to think about, especially if you're like working on a ready-to-wear outfit.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, sometimes you gotta think of, okay, the client, you get to think about, because it's a different thing if you're making something for like a custom.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you, I mean, it's it has to be 100% the client.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: But when it's a collection, and I I would feel like my my thought process is different for a ready-to-wear collection and a cooter collection.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: For a ready-to-wear collection, I'll get to be a bit more lenient and think about the market.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'll get to think about um the clothes, I'll get to think also about my creativity.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: But when it comes to like a couture collection, I basically don't think about anything else but just myself, like what I think I want to create.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what's the difference?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: You've dressed some private clients who are not celebrities.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: You've also dressed plenty of celebrities.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: What's the difference between dressing a celebrity and a client who is not a celebrity, a regular client?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um a major difference, a major difference, definitely the coins, the money.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: The private clients, they they do have the coins.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: So um they do or they don't?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: They do.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: They do have the coins, they're the money givers.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, um, that is a major, a major, major, major difference.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, of course, apart from that, with dressing private clients, you we never really get to post those things online because they're exclusive pieces.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And some of them say I don't want to.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we never get to post them online.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: We've made things for so many private clients.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: We never get to post them on the brands page.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Just out of um things we've signed already, privacy.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: The client is a private person, so they make you sign NDAs.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, definitely.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh some there's levels to this.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh me, I'll never let you sign any NDU.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Let everybody know.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let everybody know this wisdom, frankly.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, let's let no, but this is not.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying, for example, if you ever agree to come out.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm just saying, like, why would I keep quiet?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's please.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's I just wanna has a celebrity ever rejected a design that you absolutely loved?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so um in the Nigerian space, there is just one person who I really the brand works a whole lot with.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: She's my good hair.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and she gets to pick my creativity very much, like a nip and tick.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yes, she does reject some designs we've created.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: Some things I feel like that are so good.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: She would get to be like, she doesn't like it.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And when somebody else wears it, she might be like, that looks nice.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, but you said no.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that is the same outfit.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I mean, I love, I love the back and forth with her because um because you feel like, oh my god, you're so brilliant.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: And that is me feeling so.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: And someone is telling you, oh, I don't like this.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: You have to go back to the drawing board and really tackle.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: I just love when I get to be really in my head and create things that you know what, a client or a celebrity or someone who I'm making something for would be 100% happy with.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: The goal is for them to be happy with it at the end of the day.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever had a client, whether celebrity or not, and they're like, I want you to make me something.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: The occasion is this, maybe it's their birthday.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have an idea.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Figure something out.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: How do you get to make an outfit for that person?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you go look at their page?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ask them about their lifestyle?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: How do you come up with something for such a person?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that is when consultation is super important.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: So even if they don't have a reference, and that is when we get to talk to them and ask them about who they are.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: What do you love?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: What do you like?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then from there you figure out what's the person.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: And from there you get to really figure out the person's personality, which is very important because people really dress with their personalities a whole lot.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you really get to understand who they are as a person.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: And oh, do you like do you like your arms being shown?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Do you love more coverage?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Do you love your breasts being covered?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: So things like that.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: We gotta have like perhaps a lengthy conversation to really understand who they are as a person to be comfortable enough to create something even without seeing a reference.
• 15:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to give me an exact amount, but give me a range.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: What is the most expensive piece you have ever created?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Just give me a range between this amount and this amount.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: That I'd made for a client?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: For a client, or maybe somebody hasn't worn it yet.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: We're just like, come on, if I'm gonna give this to someone to wear or sell or whatever, this is XYZ, and this is the most expensive piece.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: I would say made for a client.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I would um that is within it was around$28 to$40,000.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Dollars?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, dollars, Jesus Christ,$28,000 to$40,000.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: What did you use to make the every time I hear expensive things?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: What are it was for one of those pirate times.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: My eyes watered.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: What what did you use to make the dress?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't think I'm meant to talk about that.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know you signed NDA.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have money for lawsuits, but good God.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Braids are always a good idea.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure you visit Nigeria.lushhaiAfrica.com for wonderful, beautiful hair extensions.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you've had, like I've mentioned, you've you've dressed many Nigerian celebrities, you've also dressed many international celebrities.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, who is your dream celebrity to dress?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think I have two people in mind.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I have no, I know who.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: There was one person I had in mind.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: I my first thought was Beyonce, but I'm like, I don't think she is as when it comes to red carpet dressing, except it's for the Met Gala, I don't think she's as out there when it comes to dressing.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think maybe Ariana or when Lady Gaga was in her prime.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Who are those people?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Who's who's the person?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: Beyonce.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Beyonce.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because I love her.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know I love, I mean, who doesn't?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Except you're a hater.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm just saying, like, yes, if you don't like Beyonce, you're a hater.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm just saying, like, her normal red carpet stuff, she keeps it simple for the most part.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think she's more creative when it comes to stage attire, as well as like, you know, her videos, yes, and her tours and stuff like that.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, okay.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Very interesting.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And how open are you to editing if, for example, and I feel like I've asked you this, if an A-list celebrity wants to wear your dress to the Oscars?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: Very open.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Very open, without losing myself.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: We have to find middle grounds without losing myself.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Have you thought of, I'm sure you have, like who you would love to dress for, like the Mets one day?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because every time the Met gala comes around and people start saying, Oh my god, Nigerian um designers will kill this.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Your name comes up every time.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Every time.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Which I I think you should take as a compliment.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because it takes a lot of um creativity to achieve whatever it is that they're trying to achieve that year.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, every year they have a theme.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Some people get it right, some people get it wrong.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: People are arguing on the timeline.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: The theme is this, no, this is the dress code, is this, no, the theme is that.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think at when every time, as always on Twitter, every time, you know, the Met Gala rolls around, people are like, I'm always done.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Franklin will kill this.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: All they need is just a chance to just show their creativity.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I have a question.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like you've already addressed this in a way.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: If someone, what's the difference between inspiration and outright theft for you?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I would say the difference is just you will know it's outright theft.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like they copied verbatim like.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like a copy and paste.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we all have eyes.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: We just know that it's literally But where do you draw the line?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like if someone says, Oh no, I didn't copy, I was just inspired by what do you draw?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Give us an example.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I would say you actually do get to draw the line.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: You can you can literally see the um the silhouette is the same, the colors are the same.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: Literally everything is the same with the outfits of the said um inspiration.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever seen a major international designer do something that is very suspiciously similar to something you've created?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: A couple of times, um, I wouldn't really know if it's theft or if it's just ideas floating around.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Because for me, I feel like um when one gets like an idea, you're not the only person.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: Other people do get the same ideas at the same time, but of course, interpretation is different, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: So um execution is also different.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's also very different.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: If you ever see someone copy your work, will you ever call them out publicly?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's ghetto.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: I would never do that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's ghetto.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: They're still your work.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's ghetto.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine like this outfit.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, wait.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine like this outfit that you've worked three months to achieve.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: They do a badly done copy of it.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you know where something is done, rush rush.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't put the amount of man hours or effort or time.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know how diesel how much diesel is costing, how many hours of you know, diesel you want, and then this person comes and copies, you will not call the person, say it's ghetto.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, better than me.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, number one, the clients who know quality would know where to find quality.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: I would never result in calling someone out on the brand's page, like a deal would never do it.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: So you gotta compare yourself with like the bigger brands, the brands you look up to.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: They would never do it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that deep.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the people who obviously patronize the Wizam Franklin brand, they know where to find us.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: So if a brand choose chooses to be cheap and copy a design, which obviously you would never get the same way, because you're not in my head.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so yeah, it's ghetto.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Can a Nigerian couture brand us basically become commercially successful without becoming less experimental?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: That is very tough.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: That is very tough.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I would say I'm gonna use my brand as as an example.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um we have delved into ready to wears now, apart from Kutor.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: But still not losing the essence of Kutor even in a ready to wear outfit.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: So um it's not impossible to become successful, but you have to feel Filter.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: You and which is why you could still not lose yourself by creating a ready-to-wear collection and also a Kutua collection that represents your true identity.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: We saw that in your December collec I mean December show, you had your ready-to-wear collection, you had bridal, and you also had the Kutua collection all at once.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um what's more difficult?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Creating the outfit or getting someone to pay for what the dress is actually worth?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Which was harder.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: I would say getting someone to pay.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: What's that is way more difficult?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: What's the biggest misconception people have about the price of couture?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Most people feel like it's just another dress.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: They forget the labors and hours that actually goes into production.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're just not buying an outfit.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: You're literally, you're literally purchasing a story.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like um, of course, Kutour and Ready to Wear, it's not even a thin line, it's a wide margin.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Can you explain for people who don't understand the difference?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, so basically, you know, with ready-to-wear, you l you literally have like a pattern created already for like a mass production.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: But with Kutor, you have to specifically make a pattern for just a client.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that pattern will never be used again to start with.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, you would have like back-to-back alterations because with Kutor, it's like a one-on-one order.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously, fit is everything.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Finishing is everything, detailing is everything.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: If you have to ship things out to India or wherever for like detailing, for beating, you have to do that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it really is literally like the utmost form of love.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's the utmost form of how you can give love to someone through clothes.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you an example.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: The dress you made for Sunshine for the AMVC is gorgeous blue, royal blue.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's my favorite color, by the way.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So when I saw that dress, I was like, oh my God.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: If someone came and said, I like that dress, make it for me.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Will you make it for them exactly the same way?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or would you change some elements?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I feel like that is very dependent on the client.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Most clients, most clients and most humans, we all have pride.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: That is something we all have.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: One of one.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't want anybody to copy my dress.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: They would literally would come and tell you that I love that outfit, but I would want to tweak this.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, without just saying the words, they would tell you from the get-go, I want things to be tweaked.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: In your earlier days when you were still trying to make money as a brand, did you ever undercharge for something because you desperately either A wanted the client or B wanted the money?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: So many times.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Where was I?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh Jesus, where was I?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Let me give you a story.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: So there was this person um who I made an outfit for.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Basically, I don't even want to say how much I charged.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's ridiculous.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Literally, it's so bad.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I was I had no workers with me.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was working alone.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: You were making it out the outfits yourself.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, I had just a tailor.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I had no assistants, no just me and a tailor.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: That was how the first three years were.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um so basically she literally paid tennis.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: And she got so when we got went for the fittings, um, she became so rude and insultive.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: It was just a bad experience.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that is one of those areas where I was like, you know what, I think I'm done with this.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: I would never charge this low again.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Not even charging, I would just I just felt so bad and angry.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what sort of person is this?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: What the hell is this?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of the moments you thought, you know what, I'm not even doing this thing again.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I really did not think about, but I mean, I kept for like two months I didn't want to think about anything fashion because it was such a terrible experience.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh my god, am I dull or something?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Because what is this?
• 26:45
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: What is one business decision that made you look like you were crazy at the time, but it really changed the trajectory of your brand?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, not losing myself.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: Losing myself.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: That is that was very important.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Being authentic and true to my vision.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Does it does staying true to yourself make you look like a crazy person because of the sort of designer that you are?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Being that your your your designs are so unique.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you got a lot of it's fine, but who where is this person going?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Who is this person wearing this outfit?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's too much, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: So sticking to your guns and doing what you were feeling, like, look, this is what I need to create, made you look like a crazy person.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it paid off in the long run.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: When did you what was that turning point for you?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: When did you start saying, ah, ah, ah, wait, so finally people are seeing the vision.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: People are finally able to or willing to pay me.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Can you remember that moment?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, the moment in time, it's not something I can actually remember, but it's just one of those days.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: You you get you gotta start seeing messages popping in.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I would like you to make this for me.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'd like you to come to Abuja.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'd like to fly you down to Abuja.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: I would like to fly you down here, I'd like to fly you down there.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, this, this.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you're just like, oh my god, wait, it's happening.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: But little by little, it's not, it's it's not magical.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's little by little.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think how I heard of you the first time was you made an outfit.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know if it was an outfit or a skirt or something.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was very interesting.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you made it for Latasha.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: I follow Latasha, known her for years, went as far back as primary school.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then I followed her.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was looking, I was like, ah, who is this?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: She tagged you, and then I went to your page.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then I followed you.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is over 10 years ago.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, okay, okay, this is cool.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: I like this person, their style is different.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: I get it, I like it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think that's when I sent the emails, and then it gave me these the the bill was in seven figures.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: I said, wow, that's so lovely.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: I will be back.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I I I would have to say, talking about Auntitash, which is what I call her, she was such like a paper tour moment for my career because I met her through um, sorry, I met her through Tosi, styling fidelity.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: So um after my 2013, I left the W.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: That was my first LW.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: He we got talking on Facebook when Facebook was still popping, right?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we got talking and um introduced me to Antitash.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, um, from her, I really got to understand like lots of things as a designer.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: Being self-taught, right?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I made things for her, of course.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I made mistakes with lots of things, and she was able to tell me that um there was a certain word she said to me which really uh I decided to run with.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: She said an outfit must look as good on the inside as it looks on the outside.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, the finishing must be great.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: It must look as good on the inside as it looks on the outside.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: It must look as good on the anger as it looks on a person.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: On a body.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, that was like a turning point, and that was what I decided to run with moving forward.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: On this show, we talk about fashion moving fast, we talk about new drops, we talk about new designers, new trends before they even trend.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: But there's one thing in our community that has always moved slow, and that is sending money home.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Especially when you're sending money, honestly.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Today's episode is powered by SendApp by Flutterwave, and it is here to fix that.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Think about it.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Every fashion girl, every stylish guy, every diaspora fashion lover supporting family back home or a small business in Lagos, whether in Lagos, whether in Accra or even in Cairo, needs their money to move as fast as their outfit changes.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Send app is there to send it in minutes.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's very simple.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Send app gets it there in minutes.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Not days or minutes.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: It is a remittance app built on flutter waves infrastructure, which, as you know, is fast, it is secure, and there are no hidden fees eating into what you want to send.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: You always see the exact fee before you even hit send.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: It works from the US, the UK, and Europe straight into Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Egypt, Ivory Coast, and South Africa.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're sending from Nigeria, you can send to the US, the UK, EU, or Ghana.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Setup is very simple.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: You download it, sign up, you verify with a valid ID, no social security uh number required if you're in the US, and you add a card or basically a bank transfer, and you are moving money in minutes.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Again, not days or because we love a good reward on this show, SendApp has a referral program that actually pays.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Share your code and give it to your friend.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: If your friend signs up and they also send their first transfer, and you you both basically walk away with money in your pockets.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Very simple.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very good collaboration, and it's even better because as you send money, you can also earn money.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: So whether you are sending love, sending support, or sending for that outfit that you saw on a small business's page back home, do it the fast way.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Use send app by Flutterwave.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's available on iOS and Android.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: What has success changed about you?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: And what has success not changed?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: So honestly, um, for people who know me personally, nothing has changed.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very much a private person.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's not it's not changed.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's not gonna change tomorrow.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very private, I'm very introverted.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was surprised.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie, I'm surprised that you actually said yes.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: I met you once.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you remember.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was a Marie Claire panel we were on about three years ago.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: I remember, yes.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I think we were on the panel, and then I was on my way out, you were on your way out, and then you said, um, you introduced yourself, and I was like, oh my gosh, because again, before that, I didn't know you know who you were, what you I just need a brand.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then you said, Oh, I like your shoes, the shoes with the feathers.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: I ordered them.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: You ordered shoes from Gaby Sookie, and we had these shoes with feathers.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh my gosh, yes, I remember.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think you wanted it to for a shoot or something, and you wanted it to be in, you wanted me to send it to Festag that day.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, all my dispatch people had gone.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Visden Franklin is asking for this shoe.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Wizard Franklin's gonna get this shoe today.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we made sure it was it was in the evening.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: I remember it was in the evening around 4 p.m.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: I said it will be it will go to Festag today.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think I had to get an Uber or something, Uber car, not even bike, and make sure you got those shoes.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was I was such a a fan of the brand.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: So and when you were like, Oh, introduce yourself, I was like, oh my god, yes.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the last time I've seen you in public.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: So it's very, it's very true.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're very reclusive.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: You don't go out like that, you don't, you're not like a social butterfly.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what has, and that's basically what uh fame hasn't changed about you.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, what has it changed about you?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, nothing.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: I I really I'm still not really like a people person.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I feel like that is uh I'm just very circulated.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: I have very few friends, um, yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing has changed.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: What other points?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: I know that there's probably more than one.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: What other point did you think of quitting this business uh this fashion thing altogether?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Apart from the rude clients.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that was like the turning point.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was like a point where I just really got frustrated.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I barely get frustrated.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: I never get frustrated.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: And this was like years ago, but um, I gotta sit with my thoughts.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when you have to let your emotions flow through you.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't try to find like a means of escapism when I'm in my feelings.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I live in those feelings and I get to inhibit them.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: We gotta talk, we get to just and I get to um, yeah.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, I came to a conclusion that this is what I really want to do.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, I think that is that is like the one time I've been ever shaking mentally.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um because you know when you actually put like a hundred percent into something, it can be very painful when someone tries to frustrate your efforts, yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: But it's one of one.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever turned down money because the client wasn't a right fit for the brand?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, definitely.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: So many times.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: So many times when I see like a client is gonna be a problem.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: You can just tell.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Carry a wala to go.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Not all good money is good money.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Not all money is good money, rather.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I would give a backstory again.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: So there was a client who, and you'll be wondering, how do you know a client is a Wahala client?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: So there was a client who did something for a while back, like two years ago or something.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: So um she was so problematic with the staffs.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: She was so problematic with the staffs, but we got to deliver.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: And when we delivered, she was happy.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: Then she came back like three months after wanting to make like way more things.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: She ordered just for one thing way before.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think she went for the party.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: And people were like, You look so good, you look so good.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: Three months after she came with her sister, she wanted to make lots of things, and I know it's good money.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was gonna be good money, but um, I just remembered how distressed how the experience was, and I told I told my design assistant, we can't make anything for this woman.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: We need this money, we need this money badly, but we're not making anything for her because so what did you say?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: After she came for a consultation, I told him not to respond to her moving forward.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yay.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: I thought you would even say you were I'm so busy, it's not a good time or something like that.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: You just ghosted the person, it's not good though.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe next time you just tell the person that you're very busy, that there's no time, and you don't want to disappoint.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: If money, logistics, Nigeria's infrastructure, and maybe commercial viability didn't matter, what would you create differently?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Would it be the same things or even beyond what you are creating now?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because Nigeria can happen to you sometimes.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: Nigeria is limiting, especially as a creative.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: You you you get a bit limited with resources.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't even mean money, right?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: I just mean approach to certain things you might really want to create, but you know, it's just not here.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: You probably have to outsource it.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I feel like if that was not like a limitation, definitely, definitely.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I try not to live in a mental state of limitation.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: I try to do the best with what I get.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Last question: When are you gonna make me an outfit?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: I brought out my most flamboyant, you know, eye-catching outfit for you.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I'm talking to Ms.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: Don Franklin today.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot just wear an ordinary outfit.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: I have to look like a pink cloud to talk to you.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, but honestly, within the next one year, we need to make it happen.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe AMVCA next year.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Let's make it happen.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Please, I know that your bill is like telephone number.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Please, you know how telephone number is long.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like then we will discuss, please.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: We're friends now.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: I got you.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: You put head though.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You put thank you so much.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for this.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't take it for granted that you came out.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: I know you don't call, like I said, last time I saw, okay, apart from I saw you at the Marie Claire thing, and I saw you at your show, which I wanted to talk to you, but there were so many people waiting to speak with you, and it had been a long day.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I was just like, I waved to you from a fan.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: I said another time, but it was a fantastic show.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of people showed up for you.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was a really good one.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I was looking at all the clothes, like I want this one, I want this one.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: This one is fine.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: Even the jackets for men, there were men in the in the show.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: There were so many interesting jackets.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: I sat next to Aki Faminu and he was like, Wow.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I can see you in this.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: I can see you in this, yes, yes, yes.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: I can see you in this.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, he's very stylish, you know.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like, Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: So well done.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, congratulations and everything.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: This episode was brought to you by Flutterwave.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Visit flutterwave.com.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! We did it, we did it, we did it, we did it.