Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / 44 Years in the Elevator Industry: Career Advice from VDA's Senior VP | Mike Loeffler

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44 Years in the Elevator Industry: Career Advice from VDA's Senior VP | Mike Loeffler · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know that I would change anything.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Quite honestly, I think I've learned from every situation that I've been in.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you ask me if I changed something now, if I had that knowledge back then, sure, absolutely, right?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the only thing that I would probably change is I would put myself in the company of more people that knew more than I did.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't good at that when I was young.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was kind of cocky and thought I knew everything, right?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: The longer I've gotten into the into my career, the more I've learned that you need to surround yourself to the right people.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Today our guest is Mike Leffler, Senior Vice President and General Manager with VDA Vertical Transportation Consulting.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Mike started in the industry working in the field and loved it from the very beginning.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: He values that early learning is being key to his success, and he continues to learn every day, even well into his career.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Mike enjoys working as a consultant and loves being able to assist both clients and contractors in finding mutually beneficial solutions to projects andor issues and help foster relationships.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: His only regret is that he wishes he had found consulting too.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Mike, welcome to the show.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'm excited.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a lot of fun.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I always enjoy our conversations and uh I'm I'm excited to be able to talk a little bit more about your career and and some of the things you've learned.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I'm curious what led you to the elevator industry in the first place.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bit by happenstance.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the elevator industry is is uh a pretty large family.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: A lot a lot of family members are you know, it's generational in many cases.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not, I'm I'm the first one of my my family to to get in the trade.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I was when I was a teenager, I used to race motocross uh up into my 20s.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh one of my best friend's father was a construction manager for Miami Elevator in South Florida, and uh he saw something in me.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when I graduated high school, I went to work for him the next day.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of how I so you said race motocross, did you also were you a like a mechanic, like like building your own bikes and all that stuff?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been fairly mechanical, I think.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But the first time I remember my father getting really mad at me was I was three or four years old and I took his long lower part.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So oh, so I've always worked on stuff.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, when when I'm racing motocross, you're you're working on your own motorcycles.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I I build a trailer for my stuff because I didn't have the money to go buy new ones.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I was kind of I would I was self-funded.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: My father wouldn't give me a penny.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: He supported me all the way through, but he wouldn't give me a penny to do it because he didn't really want me out to cycle anyhow.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: But um uh it it that's kind of what where all he saw of me was in in that setting.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean before I shouldn't say that, before I I came to work in the elevator trade, I was building houses.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So in my spare time after school.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So uh pretty handy, it sounds like yeah, on the motorcycles and lawnmowers too, and and houses for that matter.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I my my um first love, I actually went to trade school to learn carpentry and and cabinet making.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I was uh I was I I still do that a lot in my you know when I have cool.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: How have those skills served you after getting into elevators?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think they served me very well.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as you know, an elevator mechanic has to know a lot of different trades, right?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're floppers, they're electricians, they're carpenters, they're iron workers.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um the old saying was if you had a roofers cart, it covered everything, right?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: But we did more than the roofers.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um uh it it I thought it it it complemented that industry very well from at least a little bit that I mechanically that I knew, right?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So so started right out of high school.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean that that's uh I'm just curious when when did you realize this is cool and I'm gonna do this the rest of my life?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um probably a year, year and a half in, it wasn't long.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I I I got in the business because it was good money, right?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Back then, I think um I started in the trade that was I was making 13 or 14 bucks an hour as a 50% offer, and and and that was more than I was ever gonna make building houses or or uh you know washing cars or whatever.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um uh once I got into it and started learning the business, I there were and I think that's really what drives me to this day.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in the business for 44 years now and I'm still learning, right?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's I'm always of the opinion that if you're you're not learning or uh expanding whatever you're out to do, which is your kind of dying, right?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Same with business, right?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not growing your diet.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um that that's really uh I think what drove me into really pursuing it.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm a very competitive guy anyway.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if anybody if there was another team next to us building an elevator and they were doing it faster, I felt we had to work harder to get it done faster.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it turned into a game, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So and we had great relationships with most of the people, almost all the people that I ever worked with.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind that kind of drove me.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So but it but uh it was fun, great camaraderie, it's a good industry um to be in.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like I said, it is like the elevator industry is pretty small, but it's it's a lot of camaraderie, a lot of family type uh circumstances.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a lot of fun coming up to the I worked in a trade for 14 years, I think, and worked in the field, I should say.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um started with Miami Elevator in 1978 and uh worked for them for into 91, I think.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: I still technically worked for them, but I moved to North Dakota.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's when I kind of got into management of the construction foreman, which um back then you were still paid hourly, but you were running the show, and that lasted about a year up there, and I became um uh operations manager for North and South Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh spent three years doing that, a lot of travel, but it was uh very interesting to me to be in a different part of the world to see different aspects of how you build elevators, especially in the freezing cold, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I learned that I still I lasted three years being a Florida kid in North Dakota and then uh left there and and moved to Atlanta, Georgia.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I went to work for Otis.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Spent 20 years with Otis in various positions and then became a consultant in 2014 and 2014.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who who were some of the mentors that really you felt like invested in you that maybe got you through some of the hard hard times?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there was a couple.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um uh the first manager I mentioned that actually got me in the trade, he he was a good mentor of my or you know, he pushed us hard, but uh I would say he was my first mentor.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And as I got more comfortable in the trade, then the uh the owners of Minoring Elevator Gary and Steve Bailey were very uh instrumental, I think, in my advancement.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um they weren't necessarily hands-on, but they were um they were always there, you know, when you when you saw them, they were always there to talk about the business and give you hints about what things could do better and what their focus was.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned a lot from them about business and uh and uh especially Gary's case, it was a lot about business and and how to have fun while you're doing it.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it was right, right.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: What was it that motivated you to take the opportunity in North Dakota?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're right, that's a long way from from Florida.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I I'm not gonna tell you it wasn't about money.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was also, but I but it was as much to me about the challenge of trying something completely outside my comfort zone.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I felt that I knew enough about elevators that I could teach other people to do that and um wanted to be uh the type of person that can help others grow and succeed.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's really what my focus has been since it's it's not so much looking for that next promotion, it's probably just working with people and in the in my current position as a consultant, helping our clients you know find their find solutions that are probably given the most value for their book.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: You you've uh in in previous conversations, you you've told me about some some interesting projects.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: What are what are some of the most fascinating ones you've had the chance to work on?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh several.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I would say um there was not even when I was working in the tr in the field in Florida, I would say it was any huge projects.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: There was uh it was more, I kind of got the oddball stuff.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a stage lift, as I mentioned even before, a stage lift up the University of Florida that was for an orchestra.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it it it was in hindsight, it was fairly simple, but I'd never seen it before.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it it was we were there for probably six weeks, putting in a huge platform and it had four hydraulic cylinders pushing it up and down all synchronized.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that was pretty cool.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh working on uh one of the most challenging and interesting projects.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'd say it probably was the most challenging and interesting project I ever did was working on a modernization at the space shuttle launch beds at Cape Canaveral.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds amazing.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh initially supposed to be a fairly simple mod.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're gonna replace uh travel cables on both cars and a cab on one, it's duplex in each in each launch bed, and then replace the rails on one out there.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that I think it was supposed to be a three-month project for$300 and something thousand dollars.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time we left there, it was uh 15 months later, and we with the change orders was almost$1.5 million.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: We were working 24-7 trying to get it done before the launch was scheduled.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it was it was demanding.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that was one of the most stressful times of my career trying to get that project done.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we did get it mostly done, and we they had the boot us out of there before we got the final adjustments done because the shuttle or the launch was in three days and they had their I mean, we were 99.9% done.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: They just said it's close enough, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where we're no, they had they got their own on-site folks that that went through and you know did the final touches and we gave them a list of what needed to be done.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we just couldn't be on site because of the top secret stuff that was going on in that in that for that launch.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: But uh they did the launch and then we moved over to the other launch pad and did something similar, but that was much easier going because it was a little newer than the other one.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: But gotcha.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Those those were after working there for a year and a half, or I guess it was two years between the two of them.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have no question about where our tax dollars go today.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So uh no poems about spending money, but it was uh it was an interesting thing.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And to learn about what goes on outside of the elevator street at the at the Cape was a lot a lot of fun too.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we we learned a lot of stuff.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's very cool.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's very cool.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: So so what was it that that led you to consulting when you decided to finally do that?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um several things.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest thing was it um I'm trying to put this nicely.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: There was a little conflicting in I had I had conflicting issues within, and I say that because how the elevator companies that I work, the company that I worked for at the time was doing business versus what um I thought we should do for our clients.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So um any large corporation, you got shareholders that expect them to make X number of profit.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: But if but if you tell the client you're gonna do something, you should follow through.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in a lot of cases that wasn't happening anymore.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh to me, um I I felt I'd be better off going on the other side of the table and helping our clients make sure that the elevator companies were doing it.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you do you feel like that has has resolved that conflict for you?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 12:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about it every day with with our team.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um some people are more passionate about it than others.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've I've been doing this for a long time, so I'm probably not as uh it doesn't hit me as hard as somebody just coming in, right?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or or just leaving that same situation.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think um I've learned that you know elevator companies and the and the people that work for them need to make a living.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: They they're they're in a business.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: We don't expect them to do it for free.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't expect them to get rich on every job.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, our our we work very hard to maintain relationships with the with the elevator companies and and contractors independent and in the OEMs.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um it it's uh it's a fine fine line that uh um you have to walk there because you know if if a client has you know they've signed an agreement and they and they feel like they shouldn't have to do something, or there's a part that we want to argue about whether it's obsolete or not, those are the kinds of uh conversations now to me are fun because we were in the end we're gonna find common ground.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but when I first started, they were it was frustrating because you know you've got some people that are pretty steadfast in their thought process, and and uh I could be pretty hard-headed.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of headbutting going on.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: But we've learned over the years I've learned to uh to see both sides of the fence, and it's uh it's pretty rewarding.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: What what would you say is the um the most big the big the biggest challenge as a consultant?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: What what's the most difficult thing about that?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh probably balancing that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it it it the the you can't it it's very it's even more difficult if you're walking into the middle of a project and uh like for instance if a client has hired a contractor, they have an agreement, and and uh that contractor in the client's mind may or may not be performing, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but in the client's mind they're not.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we go in, do a do an evaluation and and uh look at the agreement that they have, and sometimes you have to tell the client, well, that's what you bought, right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And even though that's not what they wanted, but they didn't know enough at the front end to to know any better.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they they were sold a bill of goods that may or may not have been completely advantageous for their project.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So um if it's much easier if we're in on the front end because then everybody knows the expectation.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're very clear on what's what's specified and what's going into that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um if there's a if there's a problem throughout their project, it's usually because somebody doesn't understand what's the great two.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's typically pretty easy to work through.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: How often does that happen that that a client will call call you kind of halfway through a disaster and say, hey, King, come come clean this up for me, or whatever they say.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um not as often as it used to from when I say from a point from a project, whether you're talking about construction or a large modernization where somebody's already contracted the company to do that, and then they go, crap, they're not doing the right thing.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's more commonly now where we're getting into situations where you have uh large building has a water in it, for instance, and and uh their elevators, they have to get their elevators up and running quickly, and that typically happens pretty quickly.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: They may not get them all running, but at least they're getting people moving through the building again, and then they get this massive proposal for uh components that may or may not have gotten wet, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the more challenging ones, or you have a um uh uh client that has contracted a long-term maintenance agreement with a company and they're not performing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's very situational where you may have a certain type of equipment that really is best suited for that company that's maintaining it, but you have to work a new agreement with them.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's challenging times.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's uh I'm going through one right now in a high rise down in Miami where they have they had a 10-year agreement in place and they're four years into it, and uh trying to negotiate a new one.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right and uh to the company, you know, the contractor's defense, what's in it for me, right?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Why should I all of a sudden tack on all this new scope to my agreement and and have to deal with that?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't expect you to do it for free, but you know, it's working out.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the more challenging negotiations.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: But um if we get in on the front of a project, usually we set the expectation that's communicated very well, and those typically go much smoother than something where we're coming in, you know, check what yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I would I and I'm sure there's some, you know, there's some companies, some contractors that that know right at the get-go, hey, we we really want a partner to walk us through this because we may not know what this looks like.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think the company some don't the companies that have been in business for a you know a time, right?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say, you know, been in the business for you know 10, 15, 20 years, understand that the consulting side of the business is needed in as long as you have a decent relationship and we're treating them fairly.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: It goes very smoothly.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I can tell you on the service side of the business, especially uh if you talk to the folks in the field, they actually prefer a maintenance agreement that is very descript, how often you need to be in the building, how much time you need to spend on preventative maintenance.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: They like that because they know they're actually gonna be able to do something for the client rather than a standard what we'll call an oil race contract, where yeah, they have to be there every periodically, it may not be monthly, it may be quarterly, uh, or maybe at their discretion.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: But regardless, any other thing that they're doing there is getting charged to the client, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So in those cases, the client thinks they're saving money on their monthly or quarterly maintenance, but in the long run, they're spending a lot more because they're getting charged for it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the kinds of things we try to educate our clients.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um in almost every case, if we if we prescribe a full maintenance contract that covers, excuse me, most everything under that elevator, they're paying less on an annual total cost interesting than than something that's maybe half the price monthly, but they're getting charged on unbudgeted items that they're not it's not covered on that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I guess I not being you know working in the industry, I I wouldn't have known that, but I can see the appeal to to take the the cheaper, what do they call it, lube oil, you know, grease, whatever lube oil filter is what I wanted to say, but I know that's the wrong term.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: But uh what do you what do you call it when it's just kind of the bare bones?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's commonly known in industries in order than grease conk.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: They may or may not lubricate anything, but they're making sure things are working okay.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: If there's a problem, if it's as simple, they may tighten the bolt or or grease a bearing or something.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: But for the most part, anything outside of that, they're you know, for instance, if if you've got a door operator arm that's getting ready to fall off or needs a new chain or or uh the door detector's not working properly, they're gonna walk off the job, send a proposal, and then when they call the client sides, they'll come back and fix it.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not it's not uh and that and then if that's the way the agreement's written, I'm not gonna argue that, but it it's not it's not to the benefit of the client when he has something that's ready to break or has broken, and they gotta wait for the proposal process to get signed before they do it.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be days, weeks, sure, some cases months, depending on the severity of preparation.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: How often do you get clients that don't want to do what you recommend?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: More often than I like, but it's uh I would say if I had to guess a percentage, it's there's there's always some negotiation there, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've walked in, I walked into condominium meeting, you know, condo board meetings, and they have the residents there, and uh, we've gone through the bid process and we make our recommendation and we present that to the board and their residents.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's always somebody there that has you know engineering background or construction background.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're going, why the hell are we doing that?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: We do this, or my elevator in my other building in New York has been 100 years old and we haven't done anything to that, which may or may not be true, but regardless, that's their opinion.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so we explain why we're making that recommendation and why we think it's the best value to do X, Y, and Z.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that for that, it's up to them, up to them to it's their contract when we're not involved.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's their money, they're signing the contract.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'll explain to them why we don't think it's a good idea, but ultimately it's their decision.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say, how often does that happen?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: 10%, maybe it's uh they never come crawling back saying, oh man, I wish.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they don't.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it and this happens commonly in in residential where uh we'll we'll work through that with a with a board, and eight months later the board changes.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have problems and I'll and they'll come to me and say well VDA told us to do this actually we did but that's not what you did but so that that gets a little challenging sometimes when you when you're in in because we're I we've had a project I'm working on the project now was just talking to one of our consultants six years old we've been through four boards and six project managers in six years so nobody one one hand doesn't know what the other one's doing so we're constantly trying to make them understand where we are in the project and what was included and what wasn't included and here's why etc etc so those are the challenges challenging parts that's other condos will hire us and you guys are the experts you just tell us what we need to do kind of thing which which is nice right that they trust us to do that but there's usually somewhere in the middle of that one end or the other right of the of that happening.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah yeah so if you if you had your career to do over again you said 44 years right so if you had to do it over again what would you do different?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know you I talked a little bit about that in our last conversation and I thought about that hard I I don't know that I would change anything that quite honestly I think I've I've learned from every situation that I've been in if you ask me if I changed something now if I had that knowledge back then sure absolutely right I I think the only thing that I would probably change is I would put myself in the company of more people that knew more than I did.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't good at that when I was young.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was kind of cocky and thought I knew everything right the longer I've gotten into the into my career the more I've learned that you need to surround yourself with the right people I didn't do that when I was young.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that that's one one that's probably the only thing that I would in in that same thing is surround you with those with those people but you've got to be willing to absorb all that they're willing to teach you because you know if you aren't aren't open to the suggestions and the the coaching the mentoring the teaching they have then yeah it's not going to go anywhere.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna use a line of Nick Sabans because I've used this at in a couple meetings of ours high achievers don't like mediocre people and vice versa right so if you put yourself you know if you're inserted into a team where those two are on the same team they're not gonna have the same ideology they're not gonna push as far you're gonna have that um the other part of that same speech from Nick Saban was you need to get the right people on the bus and the wrong people off the bus right and put them in the right seats and and uh I don't know I was just looking at something on the internet this this afternoon on LinkedIn and that hit that speech with Nick Saban talking popped up again it was quite funny.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm reminded of that quite a common but it but it is a great message and uh it has to be and that's that's the fun part of what I do today because I'm more on the management side of this is is getting the right people in in on the team that that where it's needed.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we have offices that are that have a pretty high volume of people our New York office has 40 plus people in it um uh Miami office has I think we have seven people in that office and then I have offices around the country where it's just one person right and and those are the those are the more challenging positions because they have to sell it they have to perform it and they have to fill it and they have to collect it.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well I shouldn't say that many we got admin support remote for them regardless they're not doing everything themselves but regardless it's if the phone rings it's their duty to to handle that start to finish.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Where in other offices we can specialize right we can have people that are doing the field work and somebody that's um great at at specifying the job and working through that with the client and and so it it it's uh it's not a one size fits all no no not at all and so from your perspective that that is a huge piece of what you do is getting the right players like you say on the right bus or in the right seat on the bus and making sure that the whole ship can can sail.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right it's uh it's that's probably the most rewarding thing that I'm that I do today is make trying to make everybody that works for us successful.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately that's my that's the bottom yeah yeah that's a lot of they're successful I I I in my previous life I the other thing I struggled with was I worked with a lot of people you know the higher up in any corporation you get uh that were more concerned about the next promotion than they were about doing the right thing for the company or the client and that drove me absolutely crazy.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was more positioning than than performing and and that's in my opinion that is absolutely the wrong you may get to a certain point in in that corporation but you're not going to get to where you want to be and I think uh having the integrity to know that I'm not as good as that guy I need to learn more before I can take that position right is is much more rewarding than than trying to push your way into it when you're not ready.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I I I it and it took me a better part of 20 years into my career before I figured out I just need to know I need to be better than the the guy that's in the position I want if I really want it.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right first I want to worry about that right and then I need to work harder and learn more and know more and and be more productive than he does and eventually it'll come.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not worried don't worry about that next promotion worry about learning and and uh being the best you can be and that will come.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely well even if it's not that particular job right there there may be some other company that needs your skills but you've got to develop the skills before you can expect to be you know using skills you you haven't got.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I mean I I didn't take a job with BDA to be the senior vice president general manager.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoy consulting and I do very little of that anymore but um I I do like working with the team and and you know helping them advance and and learn their their craft and uh so that's rewarding but uh I do I do miss um working directly with clients is not as I mean still do to a point but not as much as they used to.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure sure yep what what would you say is the single biggest lesson that you've learned throughout your career um um relationships are more important than you think um both internally and externally um uh my father used to or I should say one of my parents would always instill in me treat others like you want to be treated and that never clicked until when I was probably 30 I'll be honest with you because when I worked in the field I was a screamer and ranter raver and I was you know yell at people all day long you need to work faster and harder and what the hell are you waiting for going to um the and that worked for a little while and and eventually everybody around me including myself got worn out because you're so intensile right so uh it goes back to the old work smarter not harder but um relationships um with your clients you need to maintain them if they trust you they're not gonna talk to anybody else they're they're gonna call you if you especially if you help them fix your problem their problem sure um it it's uh it's it's rewarding when when the phone rings and and are they're calling you only you to to help them with their problem and and now granted you have to deliver and so a lot of times you're dropping what you think you should be doing to go help them in that in that moment but it's a little bit of a juggling act but um if you maintain those relationships and your clients and the people that work around you trust you your life is a lot easier than if you're fighting the fighting the whole way through yeah yeah I mean some some people it seemingly and I don't I don't hear people saying it as much but it just seems like uh there's a lot of and and maybe it's more outside the the elevator industry but a lot of emphasis on you know it's all about price it's not so much about relationships how does that I mean in this industry what do you what do you think um this is coming from a baby boomer so I have to be careful right uh the you know but I see it in people that have been in the business for 30 or 40 years where they have a they have a job for you know 15 20 years and then and then you look at the resume and they make a move every two or three years.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there's probab there's reasons for that in many cases I I think but it's it's more of they're unsettled um and not really understanding what they want out of their career.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's at least that's what I found.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell you that from a personal perspective um uh I I one of my positions was when I was with Otis elevator was I was in charge of field operations but they called it field support but I also worked with the engineering group to develop new products to help them make it installation friendly and that was that's really where I learned to juggle a lot of uh a lot of balls in there and and be I say that because I I had to maintain a relationship with the engineering department so they trusted me that I wasn't just trying to shove stuff down their throat but on the other hand my job was to support the field give them all the documentation and training and all that stuff my group I wasn't just me but I did very little of the process that those guys would develop training get the training to them and make them as productive as they can in the field and and uh the object for the engineering team was make that product as cost effective as possible but the the fun part for me was making them understand okay it may cost ten dollars to modify that part but it may cost you$100 in the field to install because you took one part and made four out of it right we got to put all that back together.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah so that was uh between I I would say in my whole entire career working in the field um building new things and learning how to how to make things better and then on that side of it um other than what I'm doing now as a consultant or my two most rewarding positions I did I truly did work enjoy working in the field I just kind of got bored with it.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I you know yeah I I in my mind I had installed everything that was ever made right into escalators and high rise low rise sure you know and and mastered it at least in my mind I had mastered it my boss would probably tell you something different um that that was the fun part of um uh of that and then once I got into consulting was helping people solve the problem ultimately it's all it's all the same helping people work you know work solutions to the issues they have and make them successful so that's well at the bottom line that's what I enjoy the most right right right so um as we wrap up today um a final question I got for you is what advice would you give to someone who's just starting out a brand new career in the elevator industry?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um be patient.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um learn as much as you can from the business from the people around you may not all be good at least you learn what not to do, right?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and build and build relationships both internally and externally I think uh and and then lastly don't get complacent it you may get to a level where you think you're comfortable now and and uh I can relax a little bit and and do what I'm doing there's four people behind you on your position right so always strive to be the best take in as much as you can um and and continue to learn I mean it it's um I I got because I run the operation for VDI I get I got an email today where somebody said hey I got this board you know where I can get it repaired or get a replacement for it you sent me a couple pictures and I've never seen it before 44 years what kind of it and it's in a controller that I'm very familiar with.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually an OTAS control.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh you're learning something every day so I I just keep keep an open mind and there's always things you can do better.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh doesn't mean you have to work harder just uh keep that open mind and and maintain those relationships both with your clients and and internally because it's going to benefit you long run.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome Mike thank you so much for being with me today I appreciate your time and your your wisdom pleasure good finally getting getting together with you and getting this done thanks again and wish you the best you too Matt thanks thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast sponsored by the Allred Group a leader in elevator industry recruiting you can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net please subscribe and until next time stay safe