Latest / Resilience and Relationships (R&R) / The Power of Words and Their Impact - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders

Transcript

The Power of Words and Their Impact - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders · Resilience and Relationships (R&R)

• 0:17
  Stephanie Olson: Hello and welcome to resilience and relationships R and R. I'm Stephanie Olson. I'm here with Saunders, and it's been too long. Rebecca, I don't want to say anything that's going to date our podcast or you, but it has been a long time since we posted, because we had big holiday and then a lot of stuff, and there's a lot of great stuff going on with the set me free project. So I feel like it's been a really long time. It is, it is good to be back. And I we were talking about some things kind of offline, and thought it would be kind of interesting to have a conversation about being thoughtful. And there's a couple of different ways. I think being thoughtful presents itself, because you can be thoughtful, like caring, thoughtful. Oh, I bought you a lovely gift because I am listening to you. My husband is a very thoughtful gift giver. It, yeah, very nice.
• 1:14
  Stephanie Olson: Like he listens to me. I shouldn't say all the time, but like throughout the year, maybe, and then gives me a wonderful, thoughtful present. He's much more thoughtful gift giver than I am. So there's that kind of thoughtfulness, but there's also the kind of thoughtfulness of before you say something, think about what's around you and the consequences it can have. So maybe share your story, and then we can kind of talk about, talk about that and all the things.
• 1:45
  Unknown: Yeah, so we were talking about this offline, but I recently stayed in a hotel, and it was me and my two children. And so when I called ahead, and of course, they asked, how many adults, how many children? So one adult, two children, and she could hear them in the background a little bit that receptionist who was taking my call, and when I went to check into the hotel, she said, and it's it's so funny, the different ways this can be taken. Because she really had a great heart. She was so kind to us, really sweet lady. But what she said made me so anxious, because she announced, not quietly, to the entire lobby while I'm checking in, and mind you, my kids are not with you when I'm checking in. While I'm checking in, she said, well, since I know you're the only adult with two kids, and that can be challenging, I gave you a very easy room. So if you drive around to the back, it's the very first room through the door, and so that way it can be easy for you, because I know it's difficult when there's no one else to help with the kids, and you're alone.
• 2:41
  Stephanie Olson: So not only did she tell everybody that you're alone with two kids, but what room you're in exactly?
• 2:51
  Unknown: People in the lobby.
• 2:51
  Unknown: This was not an empty lobby. It had people in it, other people checking in, like, thank you.
• 2:58
  Unknown: And she came back to it again.
• 2:58
  Unknown: She mentioned it a few times, she said, and I know that it's challenging to be able to get two kids ready on your own, so if you need a late check out you can. And she was trying to be so nice, so sweet, really, very, very sweet. All I can think is, if there's anyone in the world who wants to hurt us, they know exactly how to do it exactly well.
• 3:19
  Stephanie Olson: And you know, I'm sure that didn't even cross her mind, because we do this work, and it's constantly, you know, we're thinking about people who do harm and some of the ways that we can protect ourselves. But yeah, that is probably not the best thing to say. And frankly, it wouldn't even be a thing like the late it wouldn't even be something you'd need to say, Hey, this is where your room is, because here's the card with the room number on it.
• 3:46
  Stephanie Olson: Just and then you get a late checkout. I It's almost like she wanted you to know how thoughtful she was.
• 3:55
  Unknown: You know, my take on it is, I wonder if, like, maybe she's gone through a period where she was parenting alone or someone. And so she's like, Oh, I understand, I'm going to help you in all these ways. I think maybe that's what she was trying to get across, like, I understand, I love
• 4:10
  Stephanie Olson: it, which is very sweet. And yet, at the same time, she exposed you to things that we wouldn't even think about, and thank goodness Nothing happened, right? Right?
• 4:23
  Stephanie Olson: There was nobody there who wanted to do harm. But you're right. I mean, it wouldn't have somebody. Here's the other thing, I think the majority of people don't think like criminals, which is a good thing. I think when you're in this work that we do, we have a tendency to think like criminals sometimes, and I think that's one of the good things about this job and the bad thing about this job, like all in one but I think we do have to be mindful of those things. And so we started talking about being thoughtful about the things we say. So not even necessarily like, Oh, I'm being so.
• 5:00
  Stephanie Olson: Thoughtful, but really think about what you say before you say it, and then the consequences that could arise from that. So, yeah, I think that's an interesting conversation,
• 5:14
  Unknown: and I'm glad you mentioned. You know, in this line of work, we do, we do think like criminals. That's a great way to put it, always okay. What could someone who wants to hurt me do so that I can be ready for that, right? And people with other experiences may not be thinking that way, and I think that when it comes down to it, really the way that we are speaking naturally flows from the experiences that we've had.
• 5:39
  Unknown: And so it's an extra step of Okay, is there anything I haven't quite considered
• 5:45
  Stephanie Olson: that's a good point, and I see that a lot. I mean, let's face it, we're in a very divisive society right now.
• 5:51
  Stephanie Olson: In the nation, it's a tough place. We're going through a very difficult time, and it's really hard, and not all of us agree on everything, and yet I think that I don't know, I only tend to talk about politics to people who I know agree with me, right? I mean, I know, I really do not think you can have very adult and open conversations with people that you don't agree with. But I also think that that's getting harder and harder to do right now, because people are upset. They're angry. And I think one of my biggest pet peeves is that when people say something, assuming I agree with them. And that can happen in everything that can happen in politics, but it can happen in just everyday conversation. And I think that's another piece of being thoughtful that you have to think about what you're saying, and is what you're saying truly something that everybody is going to connect with and agree with. And I we use this kind of mindset when we speak. We know that there is a mixed audience in a number of different ways. That we're going to have people who are conservative, people who are liberal, we're going to have people of certain faiths. We're going to have people who are trying traffickers, people who have been victimized, you know, whatever the case may be, wet in the room, and we have to be very mindful of what we're saying, so we're not isolating a group of people in a conversation, but also so we're not doing more harm. I think that's really important. Absolutely.
• 7:45
  Unknown: You know, I've been in the kind of conversations that you're describing where maybe someone is putting down people who believe a certain thing, assuming that I agree with them, and are like, Oh, you're actually
• 7:54
  Stephanie Olson: talking about me. Yeah, absolutely. And I have seen that on so many different sides of like, I said different things. I mean, we all come from such different experiences. I even so I'm a theater gal. Also my kids do sports, and you know, I love that. But somebody just recently said something to me the other day about how sports are much better than the arts, and I thought that's a crappy thing to say, because I'm in like three shows a year, and I love the arts and I love what I do, and so I think it's just we need to think about what there are people with different opinions around you at any given time. Does it
• 8:42
  Unknown: mean that you can't disagree? You know, if I am a die hard sports fan, I can believe that sports are better than theater. I'm not, yeah, but you know, when pretend to be one, I don't know anything, but I could be but I can still talk about it in a way that is not disrespectful to your experience
• 9:01
  Stephanie Olson: in theater, exactly, even if, okay, yes, yes, okay. So go back to our friend the hotel, which I do. I love that she was trying to be so helpful and honoring really.
• 9:15
  Stephanie Olson: I think that's great. But how do we, then really put ourselves?
• 9:20
  Stephanie Olson: How do we think about things in that way if we've never had the experience? How do we how do we look outside of an experience like that and say, Okay, this is what. This could do. My words could influence somebody this way. How do you even do that?
• 9:36
  Stephanie Olson: That's a really
• 9:37
  Unknown: good question. Well, and I think with this example, yeah, you asked me. I think with this example too, it's challenging, because there may have just been a lack of knowledge. There could be. So looking at that hotel example, you've given away the fact that there are no other adults with me. You've given away the fact that I'll be distracted. My hands will be full. You know where my room is. You know which entrance I'll be doing. Into so in my brain, I'm like, okay, there are a plethora of ways someone can use that information against me, right? She's obviously not thinking that way, but it may be that she's never seen that that can do damage, man, I'm gonna flip your question right back to you. What do you think because that I'm trying to process that's a tricky one.
• 10:17
  Stephanie Olson: It is think that, think that there, this is part of our problem, actually, as a whole, like when we're talking about things like human trafficking or any social injustice, so we're talking about homelessness, or we're talking about whatever I could, I could, the list goes on and on, and because we haven't experienced it, we are very willing. We just don't know. I was in a group where somebody was talking, we were talking about the homeless population, the unhoused population, and somebody made the comment, what are we going to do about those homeless? I mean, they're all over the place. They're doing this and talking about them as if they were not human beings that need help this and then went on and started talking about how there's so many apartments we need to get rid of those, those apartments, because we don't want those kind of people in our and I was just blown away by some of the things this person was saying.
• 11:18
  Stephanie Olson: Fortunately, the person they were asking the question to responded in a very, very positive and educated and trauma informed way, and said, You know, first I want to say, these are human beings we're talking about, and we need to start there. And I thought that was so good, but it's just like, it's not my experience. So I don't know, nor do I
• 11:39
  Unknown: care, and that last part, nor do I care that. I think that's what makes the difference, because I know I've said things, you know, 10 years ago, when I look back at that now and I think, oh, I should have never said that. Or, yeah, I mean, like, we're always growing and learning and changing, and so something that you may have said or done a decade ago, you could be a totally different person by now, right? It's true. I think the difference is that willingness to learn and to care about it like I didn't start a conversation with my friend at the hotel. But if I would have, I would, I would bet she's the kind of person who would have been like, Oh my gosh. I didn't even realize, yes, exactly I agree. Attitude then so I don't care, right? Well, and
• 12:20
  Stephanie Olson: I think it goes back to also that consent piece, in a sense, you know, you've got private information about somebody that really shouldn't be shared, and is it your story to tell, or is it her story to tell? And again, it goes back to understanding those pieces. But if I know something about somebody and well, here's an example. I'll give you an example. We found out that somebody in our family was having a baby, and we were super excited. It was a cute picture, like, Hey, big sister, or something like that, you know.
• 12:58
  Stephanie Olson: And we got it from another family member, not the family member who was having the baby, another family member. So we got the picture from another family member. So my son posted on a public it was like an athletic, athletic thing, so they kind of follow each other, but it was public and posted, congratulations, all this stuff.
• 13:21
  Stephanie Olson: And she immediately texted and said, Hey, we have not announced that yet, and no one was I mean, we were not supposed to know.
• 13:30
  Stephanie Olson: And so I think it goes back to that we what is your story to tell? If, if you haven't received permission to share something that you were given, then you should probably not share it. And although she was being very nice, I mean, again, I don't want to knock her, because what a sweet thing, but she had private information about you through her job that she shared to everybody. I didn't
• 14:00
  Unknown: even think about it like that, but that's true, because true like that, either?
• 14:04
  Stephanie Olson: No, of course not. And it's not like you walked in and said, Hey, I'm alone. I have two kids. I need a you know, that information she received, she received through her job, and it it's private information.
• 14:18
  Unknown: So I totally agree with everything you're saying. And I want to dig a little deeper.
• 14:21
  Unknown: What about whenever your life intersects with someone else's life? Oh, what is yours to share? And what's not?
• 14:29
  Stephanie Olson: That is a great question. And somebody just mentioned this to me. Okay, so I mean, think about think about books. I think about Mommy dearest, the book about Christina Crawford, who wrote about Joan Crawford, her mom, and it was just this huge, incredibly I mean, it caused quite a stir, and Joan Crawford's fans were furious with her, and still are because she this. Situation of Joan Crawford. She shared her story, but it was very public of Joan Crawford. And so I say all that to not answer your question at all. I don't it's really tricky.
• 15:12
  Stephanie Olson: It really is because, yes, it is your story to share when I do that, and I do that a lot, you know, I write quite a bit, and I we talk on this podcast, and I'm a public speaker, and so I do share stories a lot about my experiences, but inevitably, my experiences involve other people, and so when I'm talking about other people, I do my best to keep those people confidential. So if they were to hear it, they would probably know exactly who I was talking about, but not everybody would know that. And I don't know if that's fair, if that's not, I think that's the only way to do it. Yeah, I think that's the most respectful way to do it. So I know I've been podcasting for quite a long time, and I have interviewed people where they have shared their story and then shared the name of somebody, and I just I think that might not be the best way to do it, because then you're kind of outing somebody in a way that may be not appropriate. Here's another thing I'll share. So I talk about my first marriage, which was abusive, and so when I'm talking about the abuse in my first marriage. I don't mention his name, and of course, anybody who knows me from back then would know who I'm talking about, but I was speaking at his church once, and it was a women's event. He wasn't there.
• 16:55
  Stephanie Olson: Obviously, I don't think his wife was there because I think she knew that I was the one who was coming to speak, but I chose not to tell a portion of that story because I didn't want to share something that would do harm. So I think you do have to be mindful of those kind of things now that's public. I don't know about, I mean, private, I think it should be the same way, right?
• 17:25
  Unknown: It gets a little trickier when it's private, because I don't know when, when you're giving a presentation, you know what I'm saying, it's going to get repeated. There are tons of people I don't know where this information is going, and I think sometimes we forget that. The same thing can happen in personal conversations too, but that information can still spread. I know that for me, I mean, just personally, there's definitely been times where I've shared something, and I realized I should not have said that, or, you know, maybe to let that go.
• 17:51
  Unknown: And I think it's a lot harder to draw up those walls unless you're very intentional about it. Private conversations.
• 17:57
  Stephanie Olson: And I think you have to know who you're talking to, right? It's, it's one thing to if you have a safe person in your life and you're sharing a situation that it that you're struggling with, and it involves other people, because it often does. I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing that and being honest. It's just you don't want to share it with that person, and then that person and then that person, because then it starts to get to be gossip, and if you're just relying on someone to be you're safe, just a safe person to have that conversation. I think that's when it's not a gossipy thing.
• 18:35
  Stephanie Olson: You're just trying to get some perspective, or whatever the case may be, but it's hard. It's hard to know what is appropriate and what's not. I think
• 18:49
  Unknown: with that, there's definitely a difference between, hey, I need help or I need emotional support. Yeah, so I'm going to this person, but yeah, when you start to tell again and again, there's
• 18:59
  Stephanie Olson: a different motivation. Okay, so now I switch it up a little bit, because there are other aspects to this. What about when there's an organization or a business or a church or something like that, something more public, and there are abuses happening because it kind of changes things.
• 19:26
  Unknown: Well, oh, goodness, yeah, because I feel like it comes down to motivation, which is something trickier to define, because only the person talking will know what theirs is if they're paying attention to themselves. But you know, it's my motivation to talk about this. Oh, I just don't like them satisfying as it might feel in the moment, to get the anger out through talking to other people.
• 19:50
  Unknown: It is not good in the long run, right? There's a difference when it's Hey, I care about you and I don't want you to also get hurt.
• 19:58
  Unknown: So I think that the way that we will talk about things is naturally, just flows from whatever our motivation is. If I'm angry about a situation and I'm gossiping about it and I'm ranting, that sounds very different than when I'm like, Hey, I don't want you to suffer from this, right?
• 20:17
  Stephanie Olson: Well, and we've had that experience where there are organizations who are doing this work, and you find out they're doing dangerous things, and you don't want to, I think if ever it's it's bad form to bash other organizations. And so the last thing you want to do is just go around and say, well, this organization, this organization. But there does come a point where something might happen to that we we had a situation where one of our collaborative partners was going to get trained by an organization that did not have the best intentions, and we had experienced backlash as well.
• 21:01
  Stephanie Olson: And so I went to that person privately and said, I am not trying to influence you in what you want to do, but I want you to know the whole truth. It's like informed consent, right?
• 21:15
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah, I want you to know the whole truth, and then you do what you want to do, right, exactly, but I do think there are times when that is very appropriate, yeah,
• 21:25
  Unknown: and I'm glad you mentioned that, because it is true. There are times when I think it would be worse if you didn't say something. Yeah. You know, if you're aware that something harmful is happening with an organization or even just a person, right, you're aware that, you know, maybe I know for a fact, this person has bad intentions with you, and I don't tell you,
• 21:43
  Stephanie Olson: Yes, exactly, exactly. I think that that is no different than you know if you know somebody, if you know somebody is abusive, and you're not telling other people, you're actually complicit in that abuse. So I agree that's that's a hard boy. We have taken the whole gamut of different of thoughtfulness, but I think it's important, because we can really affect how other people see things, and how other people view things and what that looks like. Let's talk like cancel culture, because we've got this whole whole thing where you say something wrong. And frankly, I mean, some people go ahead cancel them. I mean, first of all, how do we get to cancel people? Right? But I think, yeah, so what are your thoughts about cancel culture? Like somebody says something, everybody's like, Oh my gosh, you're canceled because of that one thing you said. I don't know.
• 22:50
  Unknown: I think it's ridiculous. Frankly, I so I think there are a few assumptions there, especially when we're like, looking at things like you said this, but then a few years ago, you said this, and those two viewpoints don't line up. Well, yeah, I hope they don't, because I'm older and I'm hopefully wiser, and yes, I have changed over time, but even I mean, I can tell you there are things that I did last week that I instantly regretted, and I wouldn't stand by my own actions of last week.
• 23:15
  Unknown: So I think that what happens in cancel culture is that there's no grace being given. And you know, I expect that for myself.
• 23:24
  Unknown: I can look within my own self and see I made a mistake and I felt guilt over it, and now my viewpoint has changed, and we don't ever allow that for other people. And I think that's part of why it's so divisive. I should be allowed to change my mind, and there's a difference, I think, between I've done something that I regret, and there needs to be room for me to regret that. And have, you know, and I'm not talking about a forced apology. I'm talking about genuine, you know, emotions. But then also, I don't know, there are many, viewpoints out in the world that don't actually hurt you. If I hold them, you may not like it. We don't have to agree on it, but I'm sure that if I gave a list of the things I believe, there would be several listeners who agreed and several who didn't.
• 24:10
  Unknown: And at the end of the day, the majority of it doesn't really affect you. There are sometimes things that do affect you, know, you personally, that maybe that's an issue. But the large majority of things, I don't think they're as big as we make them, yeah,
• 24:25
  Stephanie Olson: I think there are definitely times, you know, the thing that struck me when you said forced apology, I think some of the problem with cancel called well, and it's a social media issue. I mean, this was never as much of a thing back in the day, but if I say something stupid and publicly and in two seconds, you call me on it, any apology is going to look bad at that point, right? Unless you come back and say, oh my gosh, I did not realize. Ways I said that or I didn't mean. I mean, you can tell sincere apologies from insincere apologies, I think, but, but you're also not giving anybody time to once they apologize after they've been called on it. It's almost like was that a real apology, or is that a fake apology? Is that your publicist and so I agree with you in that there is there are things you've done in the past that you should that you might feel bad for you. Here's what I would say, if you do something wrong publicly, you need to apologize publicly. And I think that is one of the key things. So many people don't apologize until it starts affecting them negatively, and then I'm so sorry, and so I don't know. And yes, I agree with you, like you, and I don't agree on everything. I mean, that would be, I think, impossible, right? I can't imagine that would be possible.
• 26:01
  Stephanie Olson: But also, I really do respect the right of people to hold certain beliefs, and I want people to be able to I may, you know, even racism. I mean, I grew up with racism. I I grew up in the 70s, and I had people who were extremely racist. I think I think more about race now today than I ever did in the 80s or 90s, which is kind of sad, because it's so out there right now. But I respect your right to be a racist if, I mean, you're not a racist, but the general, you know, I do. I respect your right to be a racist. I don't agree with you, and I won't hang out with you, or, you know, you won't. I won't collaborate with you or whatever. I'm not. I don't want to be anywhere near you, actually, if you're a racist. But I respect your right to be a racist. Just don't you know, if you start talking around me, you're going to be lonely, right? I mean, you're I'm leaving, respond to whatever it is, exactly, exactly. And so I don't know. I think I don't know it. Social media has thrown all of this for a loop. You know, when I was when I was drinking years ago, and I was young, I was mean to somebody for no reason whatsoever, and I remember it vividly, young gal.
• 27:27
  Stephanie Olson: I remember her face, and I don't I don't know why I was so nasty to her, but if I could apologize to her today. Absolutely do it.
• 27:41
  Stephanie Olson: Hey, if it was you and you're listening, I am so sorry, because I you know there are those things you do that you can't apologize for. Maybe you're rude in a grocery store, you do something. So I think those are times when, yeah, we all have bad days, or we're all just miserable ourselves for something, and you know, that's where the grace comes in. Or, I hope you don't hold on to that, that you know, things like that, but I do think when you when you screw up publicly, you have to apologize publicly.
• 28:19
  Unknown: I think that makes total sense. If it's a private issue, apologize privately. If it's a public issue, apologize publicly, right, wherever the offense occurred. That makes total sense.
• 28:28
  Stephanie Olson: And if you don't know you're being offensive, I think it's a problem when, when you are like, maybe you don't know you've done something wrong. So even even the example of of that gal at the hotel, if you would have said, I know, if you would have said, hey, you know, gosh, next time, just for future reference, I would appreciate it if, and she would have said, Oh my gosh, no, pro, you know, I think that.
• 28:56
  Stephanie Olson: But if, if you offend somebody, and they tell you, and you don't respond with, oh my gosh, I'm sorry. Or, you know, even if that wasn't intentional, that's not what I meant. I am so sorry if that's how you viewed it and I didn't just, let's grow up a little bit.
• 29:18
  Unknown: We can talk respectfully. And I think there will be rare occasions I really believe that the majority of our arguments would not happen if we could all just speak respectfully. Yes, there will be those rare occasions where maybe you're just mad that I hold this opinion and there's just saying I believe this in even a very kind way, right? Well, have the right to be mad, and I have the right to hold that opinion, and it doesn't have to escalate
• 29:46
  Stephanie Olson: beyond that, right? Yeah, no, I agree. I think we've lost civil discord, unfortunately in our world today and at least in our nation, and I think that opinions are so strong. It's just so divisive right now, but that's that's another, that's a whole other topic, I think, that we just need to think before we speak.
• 30:09
  Unknown: And in a lot of ways, it all goes back to recognizing that the people in front of you are people with intrinsic value.
• 30:17
  Unknown: And so you talked about you have the right to be racist, and
• 30:22
  Stephanie Olson: hoping that we hate that for you. I mean, that really sucks for you, because
• 30:29
  Unknown: have a better life and a less miserable time if you weren't.
• 30:33
  Stephanie Olson: Yes exactly, but yeah, you have the right to be stupid and racist
• 30:41
  Unknown: if you are, you're still a person. Even if there are 100 things I don't like about a person, they're still a person. And I'm betting I can find at least one thing that's good.
• 30:52
  Stephanie Olson: And so people would say something like, because, I mean, this is a legit topic. So the rebuttal would be, well, what about Hitler?
• 31:01
  Unknown: You know, never knew him,
• 31:06
  Stephanie Olson: and I'm grateful, no. And I think it's true. I think people go astray.
• 31:10
  Stephanie Olson: I mean, okay, so same thing as the traffickers, right? When people ask us, I love that you brought it back to intrinsic value, because it's the same thing. People will ask us, Well, what about traffickers? Do they have intrinsic value? They do.
• 31:24
  Stephanie Olson: They absolutely do. Does that mean what they're doing is right? No. Does that mean that what they are doing is not evil?
• 31:34
  Stephanie Olson: No, it means that they have truly gone astray. They have have some really bad ideas about human beings and the way of the world, and there is probably not much I agree with them on. They still have intrinsic value. It's a really hard that's a really hard thing, but, but it is reality, and I think it goes back to that we cannot dehumanize people, even when people dehumanize it's tricky.
• 32:07
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah, it really is. So back to your friend at the hotel. She was truly trying to be very kind, compassionate. I love her heart. We just have to be mindful of our words, and I also think we have to be mindful of information that is given to us, like when somebody gives you information that's a really powerful thing you're holding, and you have to hold it with care. All right. Well, if only we could be in charge of everything,
• 32:38
  Unknown: the world would be better place.
• 32:42
  Stephanie Olson: Oh, oh, right.
• 32:42
  Stephanie Olson: Okay, I don't one of the two, one of the two, I don't know. I don't think you could make it Messier right now. But okay.
• 32:48
  Stephanie Olson: Well, thank you for allowing us to hang out and chat with you, and we promise we will not be away for so long. Next time we'll see you again soon. Get Smart enough you.