Latest / I Am Wiser Podcast with Dr. Laura Purdy / Why Impact Matters More Than Metrics in Healthcare

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Why Impact Matters More Than Metrics in Healthcare · I Am Wiser Podcast with Dr. Laura Purdy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, mentorship is so important.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Start with finding the right person to work with.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Start with finding somebody that lined up with your values so that you can learn how to do things better.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: In the first one, two, three years, really trying to find the right environment to work in.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it won't be the busiest often, and maybe you won't make the most amount of money, but you're going to learn to do things better and faster and in the right way so that it sets you up for the future.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the I Am Wiser Podcast, where the biggest questions in healthcare and wellness meet the collective wisdom of industry leaders and innovators.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Laura Purdy, and here we explore the intersections of AI, care delivery, telehealth policy, and more through the lens of those who are reshaping healthcare.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is not just about theory, it's about lived experience and real industry insights.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in and get wiser together.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to today's episode of the I Am Wiser Podcast with Dr.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Laura Purdy, where I explore the real stories behind groundbreaking healthcare innovations and the human impact they have on patients and providers.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: On that note, I'm delighted to welcome Dr.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Jan Jaffer, CEO of Trek Dental, a dentist and a passionate advocate for giving back.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Jan has dedicated his career to not only advancing dentistry with AI, scanning, and educational technologies, but also to creating meaningful impact in communities locally and around the world.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Today, we'll uncover the stories and lessons that show how patient-centric care and giving back can transform lives and inspire us all to live wisely and well.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing a little bit of reading about Trek Dental, you, your mission, what you're doing, and why you're doing it, and particularly all the different technologies you're using.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering before we dive in, can you share with us what is your one piece of wisdom that you have that you've learned along your professor personal and professional journey that you want to impart to our listeners today?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I always like to start with why.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you here?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: What are we doing?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And my why is motivating people to live well and give back.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, we want healthier people, like you know, the work that you do and the work that I'm doing.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: We want to make sure that our patients and not just our patients, but the people around us, our families, our friends, are living healthier lives.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So ultimately, how do we make society healthier as a starting point?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do we make sure that we take that and give back to society as well?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that whole socially responsible piece, you know, but we need to be healthy to do that.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so ultimately we need to create an environment where we have healthy people that can help others.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's beautiful.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I assume you're speaking on the larger sense, not just with the dental health, although that happens to be the industry you started in.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: But really, you're talking about wellness and health as a whole, not just oral health, I assume.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, and that's a that's a big part of where, you know, we're trying to focus and we're thinking about and trying to figure out how we can do more.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because what we know as dentists is we get to see our patients more often than the average doctor, unless you have somebody that's already sick.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So for, you know, a healthy person, they don't always, you know, they might go to their doctor once a year, not even once a year, but the dentist twice, three times a year sometimes.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so we got to be more than you know, tooth doctors, as some people would like to put it, and and start looking at overall health because ultimately all the food that goes into your system, everything you eat, how you nourish yourself starts with the mouth.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so if the mouth isn't healthy, you know, that affects absolutely the rest of the body.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the connection between inflammation and the mouth and inflammation in the rest of the body is something that, you know, the research is just starting to prove out things that we've already known, but we're now starting to see that more.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so for us, a big focus is, you know, your mouth is connected to your heart.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's connected to having a baby, it's connected to all of these other things that we need to work together with doctors.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's been a challenge only just because dentistry has been seen outside of the medical realm.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so, how do we work?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why I love, you know, being on a podcast that's with the doctors like, how do we work together to make our patients healthier?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's fascinating that you say that though, because when I went through, so I'm a traditional allopathic family medicine doctor.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can think of direct education that I received about the mouth.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: We think about things like antibiotics before certain procedures or bleeding of the gums during pregnancy.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about um like periodontists.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like we get taught all of that, but I I agree with you.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is some sort of a stigma that maybe dentists and the dental professionals may be up against.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad that you're here.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that you're doing that because we all want the same thing, right?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Healthier patients, right?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, ultimately, we all want the same thing.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about your journey as a dentist.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: I assume you went to a traditional education, you went up through dental school, you started.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sounds like maybe even in your family, you maybe had like a family dentistry heritage.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then somehow something happened in there that made you say, I want to do more than just fix teeth.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want to help people be well.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: What happened in your journey that brought you to that place?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I was fortunate.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: My dad's a dentist, so that's, you know, and I went to uh school in the States actually in San Francisco, went to the University of the Pacific, and I graduated at 22.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was actually a little ahead.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, 22 years old, ready to start practicing dentistry.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, joining dad, I mean, he'd already created a really great office environment.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, technology was something that he liked, but he hadn't got too far into.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I was able to, you know, start to push to digital records because we were still on, you know, paper records with 23 years ago.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, how do you get to digital records?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I mean, back then there weren't that many people doing it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just well 25 years ago.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we moved to digital records.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a big part of it was like, you know, your upbringing always has a big difference.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, you know, giving back and being a volunteer was not an option as we grew up.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was part of what we did in society.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was just part of the people that we were and how we do things.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so ultimately, you know, that came back and we said, hey, if we have more hands, because people always ask me, like, don't you have enough offices?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's 17 offices.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, but we have 17 partners, a partner in every office, actually, 20 partners in total.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the more people that we can help, the bigger impact we can make.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have to look at it from impact, not from how many clinics do you own or how much money do you make?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, all of these things are important because we want to be successful and we want to live a good life.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there can be a balance with a good life and with you know helping people out.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, you know, when you have more hands and you have more people, you can make a bigger impact.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell And it's not just about the bottom dollar of how much money are you making or how many procedures are you doing or how much revenue you're generating.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the people whose lives you are changing.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell It's a beautiful mission.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell So we're talking about it's not just about the bottom dollar.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about in the US we say RVUs.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's a term that is used because you're in Canada, right?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know how that works.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you're really focusing on the impact and doing good by being good.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, your impact is measured by the quality, not the quantity, is what I'm hearing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So and one of the things, because I know that it's interesting, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because like how do you how do you get your metrics?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because we have metrics.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in all of our businesses, ultimately there's metrics.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, as you start to have, you know, more or more offices, you got to, you know, be mindful of what that looks like.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that I think people miss out on is longevity of patient.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of like how long does that patient continue to visit you?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know in dentistry a big thing that we always look at is how many new patients do we get?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: How many new patients?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because the new patients keep us going.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And when I get to lecture and I talk to people, I said, okay, who knows their new patient number?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody's like, oh, I get 30 or 50 or 100 or whatever it ends up being.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: I said, How many of you know how many patients you're losing every month?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, What do you mean?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, if you just got, you know, 40 new patients every month, you'd have 500 in a year.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, but you'd run out of space and you're not running out of space.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that means that you have to be losing patients.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, well.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, do you know that number?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And do you manage that?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because ultimately the best that we can do is have a patient.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the metrics that we look at is can we keep a patient for 10 years?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because then we know we've made a difference in their lives over a period of time.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Seeing somebody once or twice, it doesn't really make a difference in their lives.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: But seeing them, you know, over two, five, and 10 years, we can really make a bigger difference.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that I always ask dentists is like, how are you keeping the people that you have versus worrying about the new people coming through the door?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because the new people, yes, may need more work, but doing a filling in and of itself doesn't make a patient healthier.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, talking about their gum disease, their overall health, their inflammation, their diet, their vitamin D, all of those things, that's what's going to make people healthier.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think looking at it slightly differently as to like how much impact can we make over time is more important than sometimes the metrics that we focus on to run our businesses.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's wonderful.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Over time, the the smaller impacts over time add up into a larger impact.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think that the patients notice or are you experiencing that you in fact are making a tangible difference in the patients' lives, that they're staying with you for 10, 15, 20 years?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: You see that happen in real life?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're seeing, yeah.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're seeing patients.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, our first office is now 44 years old.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we've had patients that are coming in for over 40 years to see us.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, my father started that because I'm 45.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I was quite young when we opened the practice.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I've only 25 years, and again, the number of patients you see, it does make a difference.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also, you know, again, a focus for us as we're starting to navigate this even further, because you have to get the business going to make things work.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And now you can start to focus in on, again, overall health and and connection.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's the other piece, right?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like ultimately, when you look at patients and you look at what makes people healthier, you know, health is part of it, physical wellness is part of it, but connection is a massive part of health of people.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if we have a patient that's coming in and we know them better and we've built a relationship with them, their anxiety decreases as they come to see us.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes it easier for the patients to come through the door.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because the dentist is not a place where people are happy to be in most situations, right?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a it's an anxious place.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Most people, and this is a hard part about dentistry, is the average patient comes in and says, I hate the dentist.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's hard on dentists because I mean, to hear that every day that I hate you.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, they don't hate you as a person, but they hate, you know, the the aspect of coming and what happens.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it makes for a difficult relationship, but one that over time, again, the more they come in, the more comfortable they get, the less anxiety there is, the better relationships we're having.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: As you build the trust with them and the relationship grows, the connection grows, the longevity grows.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, okay, from a business perspective, that does give back to the practice.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: It does result in a successful business.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: You do have, if you're retaining, yes, that is more top-line revenue, yes, that is more, you know, growth in the business.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you still get the same endpoint as if you were just chasing the dollar, but you're helping the people and having the benefit of growth.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell And that's exactly it's a win-win, right?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because ultimately for us to be successful, we need patients to come through the door.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if we can keep the same patients coming in over and over again and keeping our schedules busy, we're going to be successful.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: But we have to do that the right way versus just turning over patients and looking for new ones.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you completely.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, we in the business that I run, we've are very patient-cent-centric as well.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: We want the patients to have a good experience.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: We want them to feel like they are being cared for, not cared at, if you will.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: We want them to be cared for.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And truly, it does make an impact in people's lives.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for sharing that.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for the good work that you're doing for the patients because it is, it is impactful.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So let's shift a little bit to talk about the impacts that you are striving for on a larger sense, because I've read and heard that you've been working on some initiatives globally.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've done mission trips.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have really made some conscious efforts to have impact in other parts of the world as well.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit more about that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get started in that?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what drives that for you?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I've been fortunate enough.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've done now 16 dental mission trips, you know, around the world, mostly in Guatemala.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: So about 12 of them have been Guatemala, but Peru, Ecuador, Tibet, Morocco.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've had some really great opportunities.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And what we look at is it's a twofold.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to be you help people locally and you help people internationally.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think we got to focus, you know, social responsibility on what's possible for you at this time.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because ultimately, for me, motivating others to do little things will make this world a better place.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so starting at home, I think is always the best way.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then looking, you know, outwardly, internationally as to what you can do.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it's cool, it gets you motivated.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, going on one of these trips, you know, the feeling that you get being out there helping people, you're working harder than you do at home.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're putting in more hours than you do at home and you're getting paid nothing for it, but you can see the impact because they appreciate it, which is sometimes, you know, the challenge sometimes in North America is that people expect you to do certain things.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And out there, they're truly appreciate the care that you're giving them because they don't have any other options.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: They don't, they don't get this care, you know, anywhere else.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, how do you do both?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that I like to I love to talk to people about is that, you know, what can you do locally with, you know, the shelters around you, with the people that are in your backyard?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, we have what, 250 people in our organization, and I can take 15 to 20 on a trip a year.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's, you know, five to 10% of our organization can go on a trip.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately we still have all these other hands that are willing to help.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so figuring out easy things to do in your office with your team is something that we really pride ourselves on and one that I always give an example of.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so you may have heard this or not, but we always go in the spring and we say, Who wants to lose five or 10 pounds?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone's like, Oh, yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, in your closet.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we go to get our teams to clean out their closets every spring, which is great for you because decluttering is good for the human body.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's good for our organization.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we take those and we bring them into work.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we did this just in May this year.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And people brought in these garbage bags full of clothes or different appliances, things that they weren't using.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we work with a local shelter called Women's in Needs Shelter Winds here in Calgary.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we started storing the stuff in our waiting room.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And people started asking, like, why are these black garbage bags sitting in your waiting room?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, those are our donations to the shelter.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you should have seen what happened.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: People would leave their appointment, they would go home, they'd grab stuff, and then they'd come back and they'd bring that in for to and they'd drop it off at the clinic because they knew that we were going to take that and deliver it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, just something simple of getting a couple of people to help turned into a clinic of people helping.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so those are the things that are so easy because it costs us nothing, right?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, decluttering our house costs us nothing.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, our team members, sometimes there's money, sometimes there's time, but this is something that everybody can do with zero cost and makes a big impact on the people that don't have it because how many clothes do we have?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: How many things do we have in our house that we don't wear in a year?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I know somebody taught me, and I haven't necessarily done this, but you turn all your hangers backwards at the beginning of the year.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if by the end of the year you've never turned that hanger around, it means you didn't wear that piece of clothing for the entire year.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Give it away.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Get rid of it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And get somebody that can make use of it, right?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So give it to somebody that can make a difference.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the local stuff.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and there's lots of local stuff that you can do.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, with food banks and making, you know, meals and all the rest of that.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then internationally you just get that it's a different feeling when you get to go travel somewhere and live in an environment.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're living in places that I mean, they have running water, so that's good.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can't drink it, obviously.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you have a flush toilet, but your shower is really not heated.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're trying to have, you know, quick showers and you're living in, you know, we're living in a place when we're in Guatemala that's, you know, about 4,000 plus feet above sea level, so it's cool.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we're there in February.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So at nighttime, it's, you know, 40 degrees.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's no heaters, right?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have heaters in these buildings.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's not part, you know.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you wear an extra blanket, you get a sleeping bag, but you're living like they are out there.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, you're still living better than they are out there, but you know, ultimately you're you're get you get the full experience, which is pretty cool.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's humbling, I would imagine.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it gives you a deeper sense of gratitude for where you're from, what you have, and endears you to the people that you're serving.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a big part.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So like when you talk about gratitude, I mean, I always say that, you know, if we're not grateful, we can't help others.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: If we're not thankful, we can't help others.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in North America, you know, I think our biggest problem is that we just complain all the time, like the weather's too hot, the weather's too cold, gas prices are up.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So like we have a house that we get to heat or cool.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: We have a car that we get to drive.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: But all we do is complain about the things that we have.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when we're complaining, it's hard to be grateful.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're not grateful, it's hard to help others.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so we got to start with the simple part of not complaining, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are you an energy giver or are you an energy taker?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the easiest way to figure out is when you walk into a room, what's the first thing that comes out of somebody's mouth?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is it, oh man, the traffic today really sucked?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're an energy taker, or wow, what a beautiful day.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm so lucky to be here.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for, you know.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: What where do you fit in society as an energy giver or as an energy taker?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you can change that, you can change the way people experience you.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: You shift the way that you contribute to the environment that you're in.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations, and you're doing a great job, it sounds like locally and internationally.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I also want to touch on the concept of technology, because as I'm reading about you, I'm learning about your business, that's the two things that stand out to me.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: One is the social consciousness, which is a beautiful way to give back.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the other is technology.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, those two themes might things could seem a little oppositional, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Socially conscious, but also leaning into technology.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you, first of all, tell me about how you integrate technology into your practice.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then how does that contribute to your desire to give back, live well, do better, and keep your patience for 10 to 25 years?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, technology is great, right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, it's changing so quickly.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the challenges that we always have is picking the right technology.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that's always a challenge in in in dentistry, especially, because there's always new gimmicks coming out, and you know, dentists are a sucker for buying stuff.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, well, what are we buying?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then does it truly make a difference in our patients' lives as as they go forward?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, two things that that I think are foundational are digital scanners in offices.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, one of the things that we have in all of our offices, actually, most of them now have two just because we use them so often, is a digital scanner.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so when a patient comes in for the first time, instead of taking impressions or making records, we can scan their mouth and we have a digital three-dimensional record of their mouth.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: But what this does is it allows us to show them with pictures and with scanning what's actually happening.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And these new scanners, I mean, they're they obviously scan the mouth in 3D, but they they look like digital cameras.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you're actually seeing your mouth truly in in three-dimension with the work that's been done, the fillings that you've had, the teeth that are missing.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so this helps twofold.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: One is educational, obviously.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the patient can see what's going on.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: But then when we're actually doing crown and bridge work, when we're doing work inside their mouths, we're using the digital scanner to scan the tooth so that when the lab is doing the work that's necessary to be done, when they're making the crowns and when they're making the splints or the night guards that we need, this is all done digitally.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not getting because we used to in the past take that impression, put stone into it, make a model, and then make a tooth on that model.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that still happens, unfortunately, for the majority of what's actually happening out there.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, getting these digital scanners in offices, like I don't know how you'd function without them.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've had them for seven, eight years now in our offices.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it's still, I think, only about 25 to 30 percent market penetration across dentistry at this point in time.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: The next one is the AI, and that's the cool part that's coming out now.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is definitely newer, but the AI is helping us read x-rays.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you're seeing that in in the medical field as well as dental.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we're talking about AI with radiology, not with like everything else right now.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously other areas you could probably put it in, but where we're focusing it on it is helping to read x-rays.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so what it's doing is it's making sure that we're picking up the things that we're seeing and we're not missing anything.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the crazy part about this is like getting dentists behind this technology when they've been out there for a number of years.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: The older dentists are like, Well, I've been doing this for 30 years, I'm better than the AI.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, but you're not.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that the the that's just proven, right?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like the AI has about 10,000 dentists that have looked at these to train it, and you're one dentist.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're not smarter than 10,000 other people.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And ego plays a big role in people saying, no, no, we don't need this, like it's gonna pick up things that I'm not gonna see or the rest.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you still get to be the dentist.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: You don't do the work that the AI tells you, but it gives you the ability to see things.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're finding truly is the education of the patient.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Again, when we're like, hey, there's a little cavity here on the x ray, and they're like, Like, Doc, what are you talking about?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, Oh, this little black line.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's what a cat how a cavity shows up on an x-ray.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, patients can't see that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if you just tell them, they don't want to sound stupid.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like, right, yes, okay.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: But when the AI looks at it and it color codes it and it says how deep it is, the patient's like, oh, that's the cavity.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, yeah, that's the cavity.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, it's yellow.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not that bad.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You could still brush, floss, maybe it's going to get better.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's red.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I mean, we we need to probably do something about this.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, the way our patients have enjoyed using the technology, instead of like them being reluctant to it, it's actually the dentists, funny enough, that are reluctant to it.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: The patients love seeing what's actually happening in their mouths.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's creating better relationships.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the crazy part about this, and the part that I don't necessarily love, but the patient actually trusts the AI more than the dentist.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they've actually proven that already.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they've proven that already.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this is part of the downside and the challenge with dentistry.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because dentistry is privatized in Canada just like it is in the US.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Medical is is public in the in the Canadian world.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um But you know, people always think that you're diagnosing based on a pocketbook or based on the ability to make money.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when the AI diagnoses it, the AI has nothing to gain.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's no advantage to the AI.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're actually already showing that patients are if the dentist gives them a treatment plan and the AI gives them a treatment plan, they're more likely to listen or more likely to accept the AI treatment plan faster than the dentist, which is just bizarre.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I mean, it's it's the way it's the way society is going.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so you gotta embrace it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta embrace it.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: It is what it is.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: But using both the dentist with the AI and creating that trust with the patient so that they're a long-term patient, but using the AI to actually help build that trust ultimately is uh it's working really well.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's helping us with that.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Fascinating.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: That is really fascinating.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: So can you I mean, I know we have to keep HIPAA, we have to protect people's information, but are there any specific use cases or success stories that you have consent to share or can share generally the story without sharing the patient information about some real tangible real world patients who've been meaningfully impacted by the things that you're doing?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a favorite story?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Can be international too.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so I mean, on the international front, I mean, obviously when you're helping people out there, like you some of the stuff that you see out there, like it doesn't even make sense.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're like, how on earth?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're swollen, you know, the tooth's bombed out, and you're like, how much pain are you in?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they're still going to work every single day.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I remember a patient, you know, I mean, I believe this was like, I think in Equid, oh, maybe this was in Morocco that we were in.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's just like, I mean, the face is swollen, and you're like, man, we gotta, we gotta help this person out.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, you know, what have you been doing?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, what do you mean?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I go to work every single day.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, you go to work like this, and it's like, what choice do I possibly have but to go to work?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, how much pain are you in?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, yeah, I mean, they're in a lot of pain, but they there's not an option, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, whereas here, when we get a hot tooth and something gets, you know, and we're calling our dentist on a Sunday to try to get in, if that's the case, right?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and these people will go weeks, months, years without any treatment.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, when you're able to open that up, get the tooth out of there, you know, get them some antibiotics, obviously, if possible, depending on the the locations that you're in.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're only there for so long.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you got to get them back to just make sure that swelling's coming down.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: But like that's life-changing for people out there.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, ultimately they it just makes the biggest difference because they just don't have the ability and they're not sure when they're gonna see a dentist next.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if they do, it's a long trip.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, in Guatemala, we have patients on a regular that will walk, you know, hours to come and see us.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember one of my first trips, we were packing up from setting up because we just set up the clinic and we were opening the clinic the next morning, and we told people, hey, you know, clinic opens the next morning.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: We told the communities around us, and people started showing up.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you know, talking to one of the guys that was there, and I'm like, it's my first trip.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, Well, what are these people doing?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we don't start till eight o'clock.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, they're getting in line now.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was five in the evening, and they were gonna sleep out there all night to get an opportunity to get treatment.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're like, Well, how is that?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you mean?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where are they gonna they're just they're just gonna stay in line so that they get first tomorrow, you know?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, what?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make sense to us here.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's amazing the impact you can hang out for.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a stark contrast to what you referenced earlier, which is the North American mindset of I hate my dentist, not, or I hate going to the dentist rather, not lining up outside to sleep outside the clinic overnight so that they can get their dental treatment in the morning.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just an entirely foreign concept to the North American mentality that you reference.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it must feel good.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it must feel good to know that you're making that deep of an impact over something so simple.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it helps so many people, right?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, uh ultimately what people do realize once they get out there is it's like it's actually changing your life as much as it's changing their life, even though you're doing the work on them, like the ability that you get.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's changing their families' lives and their community's lives by being healthier because, again, they can do better work.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and then, you know, the last part I always talk about like, should we talk about should we post about being socially responsible?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always a bit of a funny one because people are like, hey, you know what?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: You should, you know, just do it out of the goodness for your heart.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you need to tell the world?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, because this is what motivates other people to hopefully get out there.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and the last person that gets affected by that is people that see it, people that experience you helping somebody, even if they don't do anything, it actually changes their lives just a little bit.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Also gives them the opportunity to think about how they could do this in their own lives.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so ultimately, you know, I appreciate you bringing me on because if one or two people hear this and it helps them get out there and do something, you know, my mission is filled because, you know, motivating people to live well and give back.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's such an opportunity to make a difference by just doing small little things.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a beautiful analogy to the donation clothes in the lobby.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't put them there because you're bragging to the whole world about how many clothes you're gonna donate.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're putting them there to invite people to join you.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like a lot of people did join you.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree with you.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're doing good, you you should let other people know that they can do good with you because there's no limit on doing good, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's I mean, there's always the need, right?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: The need out there is is endless and we can all do our little part to make a difference.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we have reached nearly the end of our interview today.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to see if we can have you leave a piece of wisdom for the generations of dentists who will come after you, right?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you could tell past you something, or if you could if you could speak to a class of incoming dentists, what piece of wisdom would you give them as they look forward into their career about how to help people live wisely, live well, and give back?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I think the the if it's if we're talking to new grads or we're talking to people going to school, and that's this is great because in three weeks I'm actually going up to the University of Alberta net to do some lecturing with third and fourth year students.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like you know, mentorship is so important, finding the right people to spend time with because you come out of school and you're two, three, four, five hundred thousand dollars in debt, and you're like, I need to make money.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, we know as dentists, if you do a good job over a long period of time, you will do well.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you should do well.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: There should be a way to make that happen.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe that that's still the case.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Dentists are still necessary and there's a good job environment for them in a general sense.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's always like start with finding the right person to work with, start with finding somebody that, you know, lines up with your values so that you can learn how to do things better.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's what set me apart and set helped me was like, you know, working with my dad and seeing the quality of work, but also the ability, because he was also very socially responsible.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so learning those two things at an early age allowed me to do it for the right reasons.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes I think that we get into doing things because we are chasing a dollar, because we are trying to, and again, money is is we are supposed to be successful.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good thing.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the ability to take care of your family and do that is is ultimately very important.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no downside in that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: But just trying to find that right mentor and not in the first one, two, three years, really trying to find the right environment to work in.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it won't be the busiest office, and maybe you won't make the most amount of money, but you're gonna learn to do things better and faster and the right way so that it sets you up for the future.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Positive role models, healthy work environments, and working with people who have a practice that looks like who you want to be and where you want to be.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not to steal your graduation speech, but no, that's okay.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not for graduation.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's for the third and fourth year students just to help them because they're starting to think about what's happening at the end of the year and next year.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's uh it's always great to work.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's important.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's important.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Dr.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Jan, for meeting with us today.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you sharing your success stories and sharing the impact with us that you're having locally, in your office, in your community, and even in the world.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you tell us real quick, where can people find you?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: If they're interested in getting dental care, if they're interested in joining you on a mission trip, or if they just want to learn more about you, where can we find you?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, best places either on Instagram at Dr.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Trek or on LinkedIn, uh Jan Jaffer.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the kind of the best ways to get in touch with me.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm usually pretty active on both of those.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we can have a message back and forth and then exchange emails or phone numbers if it uh if it makes sense.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, those would be the two best ways to get a hold of me.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wish you the best in all that you do.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I really appreciate you being here with us today.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for the opportunity.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for tuning in to the I Am Wiser Podcast, where each episode brings us closer to a wiser, more human approach to healthcare.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: If today's conversation inspired you or sparked new ideas, share it with someone who's ready to rethink healthcare.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a story or innovation that could light the way for others, reach out.
• 32:33
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• 32:34
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• 32:36
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• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, stay curious, stay courageous, and stay wiser.