Latest / Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza / Ep.113 - Andrea Davis on Holding the Line When Your Kids Push Back on Screen Limits

Transcript

Ep.113 - Andrea Davis on Holding the Line When Your Kids Push Back on Screen Limits · Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza

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  It was a realization that good parenting involves pushback.
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  It's not that we're wanting to create unnecessary conflict.
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  Good parenting involves having some firm boundaries when you
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  know what you're doing is the best thing for your kid.
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  This is Virtuous Leaders, the podcast for based Catholics will
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  speak truth, do good or die trying.
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  Here's the show If I were a better screen time than the
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  author of creating intent health each family.
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  How do you save children from digital distraction?
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  Really, I think it comes down to instilling values and habits in
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  your home that override any attraction or distraction the
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  tech can bring. Because our kids need some
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  something to turn to that's going to ground them, that's in
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  this physical world that we have right here, and that's
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  connection with other people, right?
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  That's values that they hold inside it, finding things in the
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  physical world that they love so much, that they love more than
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  staring at a screen, really. How you feel that off?
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  How you take them away from somebody so addicted and get
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  them attracted to real life activity?
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  Well, obviously the best way is starting when they're young
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  because if you instill those habits and those passions and
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  those values when kids are young before they have a lot of access
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  to technology, then that's something that they carry with
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  them. Also modeling that in the home
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  as a parent, you know, how are we spending our free time?
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  Do we have screen free rituals that we turn to when we're
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  feeling stressed or we need to unwind?
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  That's obviously another way. And then a lot of conversations
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  about what does healthy tech use look like?
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  What does a human being need in order to thrive?
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  And I always tell my kids and I tell everyone, well, technology
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  has changed. What kids need has not hasn't
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  changed. And so as human beings, we still
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  we need the same things that we've always needed.
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  We need sleep, we need human connection, we need physical
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  activity, we need time outside, we need to nurture our brains
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  and be learning. So all of these things that
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  require us to live this a healthy be a life are by and
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  large things that we're we're not going to find on a screen.
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  And so just having those conversations with our kids,
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  modeling that, and then creating boundaries around tech together.
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  Conversations are important for forming the intellect, but how
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  realistic is it to convince a teen that the smartphone is not
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  in their best interest? Yeah, really it depends on the
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  teenager and some are harder than others obviously, But a lot
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  of it again comes down to I think drawing upon what are
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  their interests, what are their goals, what are their values and
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  then bringing it back to that. So if you, let's say you have a
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  teenage son who is a real fanatic about soccer and has
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  some pretty lofty goals, maybe he wants to play soccer in
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  college, then being tying back the both the time that they
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  spent on screens and activities spent on screens.
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  How are those going to help him achieve those goals?
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  And that that's when it matters. That's when it starts to matter
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  to them is when they see, oh, yeah, if I'm up scrolling on my
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  phone until 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, then I'm really
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  probably not going to be a very good soccer player because I
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  need sleep. My body needs sleep to be able
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  to recuperate to do that well. So I think anytime you can tie
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  back those maybe challenges or distractions that you're seeing
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  back to something that really matters to them, then that's a
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  really good start. I.
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  Think there's a lot of depth to your approach, which is treating
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  them as beings with reason and focusing on the true good and
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  using that to drown out the evil.
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  However, I think it may be difficult for parents to see how
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  to apply this practically in their day-to-day lives.
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  Do you have a success story you can share of how you implemented
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  this vision? Yeah.
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  Well, I think essentially it does start with creating some
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  expectations and boundaries together as a family.
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  And so we as our own family created a family tech plan and
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  really probably the the biggest success story started in my own
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  home. And that would have been many
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  years ago. Our family moved across the
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  country and our we gave our oldest daughter a smartphone.
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  She really thinking of it as a communication device, something
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  that she could reach us if she didn't know where to get off the
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  bus or just stay in touch with friends.
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  When she left, she was 12 at the time.
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  And I remember, you know, not too long after that, just her
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  coming home after school and spinning her cereal into her
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  mouth before the hand, but doing this with the other scrolling
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  and not talking to me. And it was one of those moments
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  where I thought, wait, where did my kid go?
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  And this was like the ultimate oldest child, like the kind of
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  kid that cleans her room without being asked, Right?
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  And so I think that's the mindset of a lot of parents,
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  especially with with their oldest kids is like, yeah, my,
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  my kid can handle this. But in reality, we know that
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  these devices are using persuasive design.
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  They're designed to keep us hooked and keep us connected.
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  And so it's really, in the words of our former US surgeon
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  general, it's not a fair fight. And so at that, not long after
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  that, we went back to a brick foam and it was super hard.
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  There were a lot of tears. But as time passed and we we
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  created a family tech plan together, created boundaries
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  together and started also living that ourselves as parents,
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  trying to model that better through time.
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  She started to accept a lot of the limits and boundaries that
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  we we put on her technology and for the whole family.
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  And then I'll never forget as she was getting ready to leave
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  home and was writing her college essay, she was talking about
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  that challenge of having to go back to her brick phone.
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  And she said, you know, I, I found myself on my.
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  She said my ears were covered when that world was telling me
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  who to be. I found myself on my own.
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  I know who I am. And that's really, you know,
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  that's, that's a pretty mature statement.
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  And that's definitely not how she felt when she was 12 or 13
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  when she was going through that. But I think if as parents, we
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  can continually have those boundaries and have those
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  conversations of talking about the, you know, we're doing this
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  to to keep you safe and to protect you.
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  But also for, you know, we're not saying we're not anti tech,
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  we're just pro connection. And we want to make sure that
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  we're connecting with one another, that we're connecting
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  with our values, that we're connecting with the things that
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  really matter. And so, I mean, that's the
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  biggest success story, right, that I've seen was one in my own
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  home. But as I've worked with other
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  families, I've also seen parents, you have teenagers who
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  are spending 40 hours a week on social media and you'll see that
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  stat. You'll see that as you read
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  headlines that you know some teens are spending as much time
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  as like a full time job on social media.
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  And it's true, Like I've seen real statistics that have been
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  downloaded from teenagers phones of the amount of time that
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  they're spending. And as parents, lovingly but
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  also with some firmness, create boundaries.
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  I've definitely seen those numbers drop.
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  And I've, and then eventually teens themselves will say, yeah,
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  I don't really love how my phone makes me feel or I don't love
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  the the way I'm spending my time or whatever it is.
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  And it can take a while for them to come to that realization on
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  their own, but it does happen. OK, so Andre, you said something
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  that does just blow my mind, so I want to make sure that I heard
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  this correctly. You gave your daughter a
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  smartphone when she was 12, which is pretty common, and then
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  you saw that it had a detrimental impact on her
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  behavior. So then you actually took it
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  away. If I understood this correctly,
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  you actually would move this smartphone and you saw your
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  daughter cry, but you did not give in, You did not cave.
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  I'm having a really hard time understanding this.
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  How did you manage not to cave when you saw those tears fly?
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  Because yeah. Because at the end of the day,
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  it was a realization that good parenting involves push back.
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  And it's not that we're wanting to create unnecessary conflicts,
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  like that's something else. But good parenting involves the
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  having some firm boundaries when you know what you're doing is
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  the best thing for your kid. And so at the end of the day, it
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  was hard. It was uncomfortable but I knew
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  in my gut like this is the best thing for my kid.
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  Just want to make sure this is sinking in here.
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  So if this was best for your kid, you should do it.
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  You know when it's difficult. Is that Is that what you're
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  saying here? Yeah, if it's truly, you know,
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  that developmentally, mentally, physically, if something's
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  negatively impacting our kids in some way and we know that in the
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  long run is going to have detrimental effects on them,
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  then we need to change something.
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  And that, that's the motivation. What if they really, really
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  really want? Well, our kids also want a lot
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  of candy right when they're like 3 years old.
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  Like they would wait usually way rather you can't even broccoli.
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  But we don't do that because we know, OK, well, their teeth are
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  going to rot out or they're going to become diabetic.
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  Like there's a lot of consequences.
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  And I think when it comes to technology, it hasn't seemed so
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  black and white, but because technology moves faster than
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  science and it moves faster than governmental regulation.
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  And so that is the challenge that parents have today.
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  Is it really you have to trust like we do at least have a
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  pretty good over a decade's worth of experimentation.
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  And we know based on what we're seeing, if you talk to any
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  parent that's parented, you know, gave their smartphone,
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  they gave a smartphone to a teen, they'll tell you like,
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  there's been some lasting consequences.
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  And I think that's enough data for parents today to, yes, do
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  the hard thing. So not hand over the candy but
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  like do it in moderation and and serve the broccoli on most days.
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  So I need to hear your daughter survive middle school and high
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  school without having any brands or any social life because she
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  didn't have a smartphone. Yeah, so she we did give her a
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  smartphone back again prior to high school and but it was
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  really simplified. It didn't have any social media
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  or anything on it. And so she did have the
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  opportunity to still text friends, but there were
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  definitely things that she got left out of.
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  I have five children, so that was my oldest and I have 5 kids.
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  And right now I have a daughter who my second daughter who just
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  turned 18 and she just got social media for the first time
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  and just barely after she turned 18.
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  And we were talking about this like, what does this look like
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  when you you're missing out? But I really like this phrase
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  that four quarters is worth more than 100 pennies.
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  And what I've realized with my kids is that if they can find
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  just a few good friends, solid friends, those friends are like
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  still going to text them. They're still going to stay
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  connected. And yeah, you're going, you're
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  not going to keep up on tons of Snapchats or other maybe
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  conversations that are going on online, but you'll have that
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  cord, those four quarters, the core group of friends that are
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  going to stay connected with you and they're going to watch out
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  for you. And, and there were definitely
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  things that my kids have missed out on over the years.
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  Like there is no doubt about that.
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  But what I always tell parents is like, but guess what else
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  they've missed out on so much drama, digital drama, access to
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  easy access to pornography, cyber bullying, like the list
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  goes on and on. And those are real dangers that
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  kids are facing online today and they miss out on that.
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  So it's really comes down to like, you have to decide like
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  are those harms and risks worth it or, you know, am I going to
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  limit, limit the access? Because I know at the end of the
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  day, yes, they might miss out on a few things, but the end of the
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  day, they're they're going to miss out on way worse things.
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  They'll be much better off without it.
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  So one of the biggest challenges I've seen is when the spouses
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  don't agree on the approach. So the difficult dynamic that I
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  see is the the dead see the dead sees the harms just like yours.
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  It's such a media smartphone, but the mom is very afraid of
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  the child missing out, not having the social light and also
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  exaggerated sense of difficult danger.
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  The dad caves on his principles in order to appease the mom.
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  What do you recommend in that situation?
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  How does? How do you?
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  How do you navigate that? Yeah, this is common and it can
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  flip flop. It happens like on both sides,
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  right, where one, one parent or one spouse or partner is a
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  little more lenient the other or is more concerned or worried
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  than the other. And one of the best strategies
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  that I've found is that First off, as a parent who's concerned
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  about it, if you know, whoever is listening, if you're that
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  parent, it really starts with looking and at your own tech
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  habits and seeing maybe what are some things that I could change
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  or should change so that I can model better tech habits in my
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  home. And for me, that started with
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  taking devices out of my bedroom and out of the bathrooms and,
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  and never taking it in there. And that was eight years ago.
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  And I've, I've stuck with that. But really, I kind of started
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  with that conversation with my spouse where I just told him,
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  yeah, I realize like I'm scrolling instead of having
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  conversations. And it's, it's interrupting, you
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  know, my sleep. It's interrupting maybe time I
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  would have to journal or read scriptures or something like
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  that and to really reflect and rejuvenate.
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  And so I just tried that experiment.
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  And then I was sharing with my spouse the benefits that I was
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  seeing. And so the, as they all the
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  saying goes, like change starts with me.
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  And so as we make changes, we can share that with our spouse
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  or partner, but also with the rest of our family and say, hey,
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  these are the benefits that I'm seeing for making these changes.
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  And then a lot of times that will inspire other people to
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  make some changes too. Sometimes it won't.
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  But also if you're, you have certain things that you're
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  concerned about, talking to your spouse or partner about some of
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  the research that you're seeing and sharing some of that data.
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  And again, different approaches will work with different people
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  depending on like if they're maybe more emotional, if they're
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  more logical. But I know in our home, like
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  presenting some of the data perhaps that I'm seeing about
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  the harms of smartphones, that's really helpful with with my
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  spouse. And that's something that over
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  time you can share like real stories of people that you know
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  and perhaps challenges that those kids have had and maybe
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  your spouse isn't aware of those things.
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  And so it's all about planting a seed and having those small
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  conversations of like, hey, this is something that we really need
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  to watch out for. Let's let's be thinking about
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  how we want to handle this with our kids because I'm really
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  concerned about it. And I think when somebody on the
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  other end, when you say that I'm really concerned about this
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  because you know, if, if obviously there it's a
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  respectful and loving relationship, they'll, they'll
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  want to take that seriously. So we just, we can't expect
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  changes overnight, but we definitely should share and
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  voice our our thoughts and our concerns.
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  Later honest to hear your Cobb 3 takeaways from your book
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  Creating a tech healthy family. Yeah, I would say the top thing
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  is just to work with your kids to make a plan.
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  Because a lot of times when we want to change something about
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  screens in the home, we're wanting to come in at it almost
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  in a bit of a controlling way and just say, hey, these are all
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  the things that we need to change.
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  And when we take that approach, it doesn't work very well
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  because it's a fear based approach.
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  So we want to come at this from a place of confidence and love
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  and not fear. And so I would say that's
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  probably my very top takeaways, having the right mindset about
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  why you need to make these changes.
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  Not not because you feel guilty, not because you think you're a
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  bad parent if you don't, not because you're just so scared
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  that your kids will come across pornography or you know what
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  other other fear you might be having, But really from a place
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  of like this is this is my responsibility, my stewardship
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  as a parent to safeguard my family and to teach them.
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  And so I think that's the top thing is having that mindset.
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  And then the second thing really is working with your kids to
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  create those boundaries together because they need buy in.
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  If we create rules and boundaries without conversation
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  or without explaining why we're creating those rules or
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  boundaries, then they're just rules to be followed without a
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  lot of internal motivation and without a lot of collaboration.
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  So we need buy in. And then I would say the last
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  thing, and these aren't necessarily in order, but a
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  third thing would be again, to just model those habits yourself
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  as a parent. So if you're frustrated with
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  maybe the way your family is using technology, look at your
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  own habits. Pick one thing that you feel
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  like you could change. Work on it for a few weeks and
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  then share those benefits, the benefits that you're seeing and
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  you're feeling in your life because you well notice changes.
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  And that definitely is a great way to turn the tech tide in
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  your home. You know you help parents
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  through better screen time. What do you do on Better Screen?
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  Yeah. So the primary way we help
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  parents as we have something called the Tech Healthy Family
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  Hub and inside of that we have several courses.
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  My backgrounds in teaching, I taught school before I stayed
• 20:39
  home with my kids. And so we have a course called
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  Creating a Tech Healthy Family and one called Untangling Teens
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  in Tech. So we have a lot of resources in
• 20:47
  there and master classes. So it's primarily through
• 20:51
  teaching. We offer a lot of live classes
• 20:54
  as well if parents want to go through the courses live.
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  And you know, our primary goal there is to help parents worry
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  less about tech and connect more with their kids.
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  You mentioned you have 5 kids and you want to carve aside time
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  for the daily scripture readings and clearly you are living with
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  a higher purpose and you're communicating that to your
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  children. What is the deeper purpose that
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  drives you to live in such a counter cultural way?
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  Really, as I look around and I look at kids who aren't
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  thriving, their parents do something countercultural like
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  it. I, I just have noticed that
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  trend, like their parents do things differently.
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  And I know it's, it is hard and it can feel hard for our kids
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  when they feel like we're the only family that has to do this
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  or you're the only parents that make us do this and it, and it's
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  just like, Yep, like this is how our family does things.
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  So it's motivating to me because at the end of the day, I feel
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  like if you can teach kids that it's OK to do things a little
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  bit differently to be countercultural, they're going
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  to have that internal motivation and also just that strength and
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  courage to be countercultural. When they're away from you and
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  they're in situations or moments where they're going to have to
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  make a choice and you're not there to tell them, hey, that's
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  the wrong thing or that's the right thing.
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  And so for practicing this in our homes every day, whatever
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  that looks like for your family, whether that's praying or
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  scripture reading or it's just conversations about, yeah,
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  making better choices, whatever that is for your family, your
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  kids are getting that that daily practice so that when they go
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  out on their own, there again, they can stand on their own 2
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  feet and and live their values. You talk about having the right
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  attitude and mindset and I, I can just see, I can just feel
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  the positive energy coming from you.
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  You have the calm positive energy, which is such an
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  important characteristic. That's our mom.
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  So I congratulate you on what you've done and wish you.
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  Continued success. Thank you.
• 23:13
  I really appreciate that. Thanks for listening.
• 23:16
  Please like, subscribe and share with your friends.
• 23:19
  See you next time.