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From Rambling to Impact The Power of Making a Point · The Innovation Show

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Before we start, I want to thank our sponsor Kyndryl, who runs
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You can find our friends at Kyndryl at KYNDRYL Kyndryl.com.
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to the very essence of today's book, I am going to keep the introduction succinct.
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I'm going to literally get to the point if your goal is to have and
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deliver a clear point, today's book is in an invaluable guide.
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No matter who you are, how you're communicating what you're saying,
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or who you're communicating to, you need a point to create impact
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without a point everything you say is.
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Pointless.
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This book is not about general communication.
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It's about a specific element of communication.
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It is about point training.
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It is a pleasure to welcome the author of that book who kindly asked
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me to cover and endorse this book.
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The Language of Leadership, and endorse the book, which I did,
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and we were gonna cover it today.
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And then what he does is he goes and re-release this at a 10 year anniversary.
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We welcome the author of Get To the Point, Joel Schwartzberg.
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Welcome back to the show.
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Thank you so much, Aidan.
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It's a pleasure to be here
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It's great to have you.
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And we had Joel on a long time ago, actually shortly after the release of,
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get to the Point, this one I'm holding.
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There's a new release out.
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I have it on my kindle.
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That's the one I prepared for today.
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But.
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The reason Joel, I wanted to share it was I was thinking about the curse of
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Cassandra, the famous Greek myth of Cassandra, who was gifted with knowing the
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future, but nobody could understand her.
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She talked gibberish to people, and that's not an insult to many
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innovators out there, but oftentimes an innovator knows the future, has a
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sense of where the future is going, but cannot deliver the point succinctly.
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Like you say in the book, it's like drinking water from a
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hose pipe for the listener.
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So I thought that was an extremely important thing.
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And every year around New Year's, I release a show that's
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usually around self-development.
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So either around the body or the mind or something like communication.
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So that's why I thought this was such an important point to get across to people.
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And I wondered what your thoughts were about that, about innovation.
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I think this applies directly to innovation because whether it's
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innovation or revolution or new technology or a breakthrough campaign,
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how does your team learn about it?
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through communication.
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We haven't yet developed a telepathy system and we're
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not using performance art.
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We are communicating, especially leadership through email, through
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slides, through presentations.
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And so it comes back to some foundational elements as foundational as Aristotle.
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How do you make sure your audience receives your message and just because
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we have more platforms than ever, it doesn't mean we can disregard or dismiss
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some of the basic rules of communicating.
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We just change some of the tactics we use to best leverage each
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of those platforms, including
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You
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mentioned the platforms and there's a lot of water under bridge
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since we did the first episode, which was pre, it's BC before.
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Since then, we've had an explosion in remote work, explosion in tools like Zoom,
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Microsoft teams, et cetera, and therefore communication becomes ever more important.
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And to add to that new generations into the workforce who, whether they
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know it or not, work to different operating systems of communication.
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I wondered what you saw change over that period of time.
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I think over a long period of time, I have seen some progress and some advance.
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At the start, I think people thought everything that worked
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in a room could work in a Zoom.
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but then they learned that when they weren't paying attention or they didn't
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seem visually interested or they weren't leveraging chat, that money was left on
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the table and we're not using this as effectively or efficiently as we could.
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One of the things I learned recently is that on your team there are extroverts
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and introverts, and we need to pay attention to the introverts in particular.
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Otherwise, we'll have the same voices giving feedback again and again.
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While introverts don't like to speak in public.
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don't like even to unmute so much and to spotlight their voice, but
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you know what they enjoy doing or what they're comfortable doing.
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Chatting.
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So one of the things that Zoom or Teams allows us to do or allows them to do
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respond in a way that's comfortable for them, and then if they're comfortable,
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they're going to say more and they're gonna say more meaningful things.
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I found, I find chat in particular in a lot of different ways, a very useful
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mechanism that only exists in the virtual environment and doesn't really
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exist in the live IRL environment.
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So I think.
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We've come to a place where we recognize there are actually benefits to using Zoom.
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It's not just a break glass in case of emergency it's its own platform.
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Just like video, just like Slack, just internal chat.
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These are different ways we can communicate and we could
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leverage each one uniquely.
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I was telling you all fair.
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One of my practices is to wear a pin and, I haven't been doing it recently
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and I wanted to explain to our audience, 'cause I got a few emails,
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why aren't you wearing the pin anymore?
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I changed studios and my new studio was really warm, so I
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don't wear a jacket anymore.
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And I sometimes wear a t-shirt now or just a shirt, so it's difficult to wear a pin.
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So to make up for that, I still have the pins, I have loads of them.
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I have this one that I've been dying to use for this episode, and it's
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an exclamation mark, literally.
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Perfect for this show.
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Get to the point.
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So let's start with the problem.
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To get to the point of the book is beautifully succinct as you would expect
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for a book about get to the point.
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But you recall your sixth grade project on the neutron bomb as an
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example of where this can go wrong.
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Right when I gave speeches, or even when I wrote reports in school, when I was in
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grammar school, this is the assignment.
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The pros and cons of this.
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Compare and contrast these two things.
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Or write a five paragraph essay.
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And what's wrong about all those things is we weren't training or
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I wasn't trained to make points.
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I was only trained to describe things.
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So when I gave that speech on the neutron bomb, or an even better example,
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when I was in fifth or sixth grade, I wrote a report about the Supreme Court.
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And I wrote about the history of the Supreme Court and I wrote about how many
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members are on it how long it's been in effect, how one becomes a justice.
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And I turned it in and my teacher said this is very descriptive
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and you define the Supreme Court.
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But I noticed you didn't mention any cases, and really it's about the Supreme
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Court cases where they become relevant.
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this is where I think my mind was at least prepared with the understanding of, oh,
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it's not about just describing something.
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It's not just a Wikipedia page.
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You're actually making an argument, as we used to say in debate, but a proposition.
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An assertion, a suggestion, a recommendation, and this is
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the heart of making points.
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And I recognized it later when I began coaching.
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And the people are coaching.
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Yeah, they were doing great gestures.
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They had good volume, they had good speed.
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And when I asked them for what the point was, what the one thing they
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wanted their audience to take away was.
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It would take them 10 minutes.
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And Aidan, we, I like to say we're very used to this word point.
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We hear all the time, get to the point, what was the point of all this?
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And we've called it different things in the past.
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When we were in college, it was called a thesis.
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In PR it's called a key message.
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Sometimes in leadership training, it's called an elevator pitch.
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my wife's fourth grade language arts class, it's called a So what.
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So we're used to this idea of making a point but I like the word point because
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it's something we're accustomed to and it really drives to the heart of the
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idea of what you wanna leave behind.
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I worked for a leader before and she had this great line.
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She used to say, every slide in your pitch deck should be marry me,
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because that's what her line was, but.
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I,
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mentioned that because it is such an important skill for salespeople, and I
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know Joel, you travel the world teaching and, training teams all over the world.
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You mentioned you're going to Mumbai, which is incredible to
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see the wise leaders there that understand that investing in their
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sales teams or any of their leaders.
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To teach them this content is so valuable.
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And you say here, the error that you just mentioned there with you
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now, we'll forgive you as a sixth grader, but when you're an executive,
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I don't blame the executives, Joel, because the same thing that we see
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here is what we see in innovation.
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Where if you don't know the content, if you don't know it exists,
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how are you gonna get better if the organization doesn't invest
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in you and you say in the book.
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For example, a salesperson will describe their inventory, but never say, this
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product will make you more successful.
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Activists, you say, who detail their initiatives, but don't say,
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this campaign will save lives.
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Designers who display beautiful images, but don't say, this branding will
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inspire customer loyalty, business leaders who share their project
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plans, but don't say, this endeavor will revolutionize our industry.
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They're the things you're trying to extract from people.
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But if they don't know, they don't know.
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you and I, and probably every single person in your audience
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has seen this presentation.
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Hello.
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Welcome everyone.
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I'm so excited to tell you about this idea.
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The first thing we're gonna do is talk about the history of the idea.
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we're gonna talk about how we came up with the idea and how we're rolling it out.
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We're gonna talk about the investment we're gonna make in the idea.
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We're gonna talk about the people in the idea, and then we're gonna
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look at some milestones we hope to who get to in three months, six
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months, one year, and in two years.
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questions and one person, and that sounds normal to a lot of people.
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Yeah.
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Alright.
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person may raise their hand and say, yeah, why are we doing this?
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You never got to that.
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And the example you gave was definitely a client I had who sold hats and
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calendars and brochures, and she described each one with specificity.
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This hat will never get crushed.
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This brochure will never get wet.
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This pin is actually a magnet, so it'll never ruin your clothes.
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But then I said, you know what?
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I never heard, like you said, if you buy my products, you will be more successful.
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And that was her point, but she was too busy describing her inventory.
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And you're right, people don't know this.
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They don't know that they're being pointless and that's why they ramble.
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That's why they need three times as long 'cause they're searching
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for that thing, but they don't know what it is that's missing.
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I've learned so much from your book and I've put it into practice over the years,
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and I also have a Joel Schwartzberg.
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Check over at the end of every, article I write, And I start off actually by
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writing out what my point I'm making here.
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And we may as well say it because we're, I'm gonna bring it up now.
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One of the things I do use AI for is I don't use it to write the articles,
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but I do it to question me and I'll go.
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What's
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my point in with this article?
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Why would this be relevant to a business person, et cetera?
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That's one of the things that has changed for you since the first edition.
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Yeah, I had to address AI and if you go to LinkedIn, at least in my algorithmic
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journey everyone's talking about it and.
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lot of people, unfortunately, have separated into two extreme camps.
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One is it's coming, give into it, let it do everything.
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The other is not on my deathbed.
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I would never use ai.
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It's the death of thought.
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And really it's a, it's in the middle 'cause it's how you use it and I love it.
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Now you described you using it as if I were next to you and saying.
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What's my point?
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Was my point clear?
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Was this point emphasized enough so that people will take it away?
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Now I'm writing an article for Toastmasters Magazine of all things
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that's gonna come out next year about the ways I think people should use
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AI based on the biggest faults of ai.
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And of course one of them is accuracy because we know all about that.
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It even says on chat, GPT, this may not be a hundred percent accurate, one of
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the other biggest things is authenticity.
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What do people complain about ai?
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It doesn't sound like me.
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It sounds like a version of me.
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That's very adjective frieKyndryly.
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That's very redundant.
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That's very verbose.
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To get to that version of authenticity, really the bottom line is to look
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at your AI output and ask, is there anything in here that if I said it
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aloud wouldn't sound like my voice?
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Is there anything in here that's emphasizing the wrong
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thing or misprioritized this?
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And is there anything in here where it's so proud of its own
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wordage and I call this, there's a real word, a GRANDILOQUENCE.
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It loves GRANDILOQUENCE.
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Fancy way of saying things that it gets in the way of the message.
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Here's the really funny thing, Aidan.
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I wrote this with these qualities to look out for authenticity, mis priority,
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GRANDILOQUENCE redundancy, inaccuracy.
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And then I discovered something unique that maybe has been
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talked about a little bit.
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And that is that there's one thing AI wants to do that's more important to it
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than accuracy, and that is to make you.
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Happy.
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It wants to serve you, and it's built that way.
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And I'd love to tell you this quick story to test it.
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I once I brought up ChatGpt and I said, what is your favorite color?
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And it said, red.
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And I said, my favorite color is blue.
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Blue and it said, yeah, blue is pretty good.
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I said, I think blue is the best.
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And it said blue is pretty good and so is red.
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And I said, I want your favorite color to be blue, not red.
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it said, okay, my new favorite color is blue starting now.
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Wow.
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Now that was what you call a low stakes situation.
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But you can imagine the higher stakes of that, and that's going on all over
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the place where it really wants to be your cheerleader your yes person,
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and that's the prime directive.
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So that's probably one of the biggest things you have to be careful about
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when it's gonna do something wrong or use a different voice or say something
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inaccurate because it thinks that what, that's what you want to hear.
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I dunno if you saw the show, the Boys on Amazon, have you seen, you're nodding.
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Okay,
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I've seen it little.
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so you know the character, the main character who.
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Let's just say is a presidential type character homelander
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head superhero.
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At one stage, he gets angry and he's like going, oh my God, I'm
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surrounded by these yes people.
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But what he is talking about are sycophants.
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And syco
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Defense.
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exactly how I think of ai.
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But I've, again, with my ai I use it actually for training, I feed into it
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every day, what I've eaten, my fasting, my training sessions, et cetera.
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And I tell it to be a pain in the ass gym instructor.
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And it is.
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And it's really hard on me.
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So it'll be like going whoa, wait, you shouldn't have had that carb.
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And I'm like going, oh whoa, okay.
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And it's very annoying, but you want that type of accountability from it.
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And again.
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You can, do this, but it's not nice to hear that, to get that type of feedback.
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I'll say this, that we talk about jobs being lost.
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I think that everyone is afraid of their job being lost and these are writers
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and editors they should take on the skills of prompting and output editing.
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those are gonna be critical skills 'cause.
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Everyone seems to agree, or at least everyone who cares, seems to agree that
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the AI output by itself is not enough.
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It's flawed.
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And you correct that both in the specificity of your prompt, like
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you said, be a hard ass gym coach and looking for these things.
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Authenticity, GRANDILOQUENCE verbosity in the output and voice.
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If editorialists are trained in those things, their jobs will be
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valuable because that is a valuable add-on and second lens to what AI
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And we're gonna come back and share some of these ways to avoid verbocity and
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GRANDILOQUENCE, , et cetera.
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So, we'll, we'll come back to that.
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I learned a new word today, but I just wanted to flag something,
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Joel, and I think this is really important and you call this out, that
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presenting is a skill and not a talent.
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And the reason I share that is I think where.
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It becomes ambiguous is where people mistake.
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Being comfortable with speaking in front of crowds, is being a good
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speaker and maybe sometimes so does the speaker because they're like going,
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Hey, I don't mind, I can wing it.
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And you say,
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Right.
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the love of God, don't wing it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that's like nails on a chalkboard to me.
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When people say they can wing it not to throw lawyers under the bus.
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But sometimes when my clients are lawyers or subject matter experts
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experts, there's this presumption that because I know this issue inside and
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out, therefore, ergo I can speak to.
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As if those came from the same place in our brains which we know they don't.
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that's why when we practice a presentation, it's not just about
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thinking it out, it's about saying it.
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mouth is can speak, but it's rather dumb.
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Our brain is smart, but it's mute, so they need to work together.
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yeah, everybody needs a point.
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If somebody rambles, back to your point about this being a skill, not a talent.
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If someone is rambling, it doesn't mean they were born a bad public speaker.
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It means that they don't know their point.
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And I'll tell you the truth, I teach third through seventh graders now in
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an afterschool program in my community.
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So these are eight year olds, and I'm not, I am resisting and rejecting
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their inclination to write it out word for word and memorize it.
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Even for third graders, and I'm getting a little pushback for
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this, but they understand what it means to have an opinion.
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This is what I say to the third graders.
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I say, if someone wants, asks you how good this new superhero movie was, you go
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home, write that review, memorize it, come back, and then from your memory, tell them
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what you wrote about that superhero movie?
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No, that never happens.
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You just tell them, you make your point to them.
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And so they understand this idea of a point.
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limited notes or an outline to remind themselves of the
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things they might forget.
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Me, I'm using very simple language here and we start with smaller presentations
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and speeches and work to larger, but it does prove to me that everybody,
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regardless of your challenge, regardless how, where or why you were born can
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understand the concept of moving a point from their head to their audience's head.
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There's a whole section on making points in speeches, and you say, the biggest
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reason not to write a speech is that you don't want to have to read it.
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And reading forces you to look down often and you lose , eye
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contact with the audience there.
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And a almost like an energy , contact with the audience.
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And also this is really important that our brains process writing
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and reading differently.
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So it almost confuses the audience.
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And it confuses the brain.
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The brain makes this assumption, oh, we're reading now, so I don't need to
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turn on the passion, part of the brain.
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I don't need to turn on the excitement part of the brain
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'cause we're reading, right?
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So the brain's not going to know that.
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This is why, and I've seen this over and over again, so I totally believe this.
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If you read it.
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Robs you.
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Unless you are a fantastic actor or actress, it robs you of your
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passion because your brain says, I'm reading and that's why it's dull.
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Now, let's not even get into memorization.
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'cause when you're, that is so perilous.
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But that is the same thing as reading.
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You're just reading it from the passages in your brain that you've
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memorized versus reading it off a piece of paper and what the kids.
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of it as, I ask them, what's the difference between reading a speech
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to your audience and writing an essay and reading that aloud?
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Are those the same things?
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And they generally say no.
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And then that begins the discussion on what it means to make a point.
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So yeah, the speech writers hate when I say this, but it's
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really not about the words.
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It's about how you convey that point authentically and effectively
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to your audience so that they, and this is important too, 'cause we
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often use a word like impact or change, but those are broad words.
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So what are we talking about when we talk about impact in an audience?
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I love how a marketing firm put it, and I'm borrowing it from them.
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But they put it in this language.
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If I nail this presentation.
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If I write this email effectively, or this slack message, will
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feel, or do, feel, think.
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Or do, if you affect that, you win.
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Even if you are imperfect, even if you don't sound like Michelle Obama, even
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if you lost that one word, are more of a delivery person than a performer.
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I always stress the difference between performance and presentation.
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You are not a performer.
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You are a deliverer, and so long as you deliver that point, you succeed.
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But if people come away from my presentation and say, oh
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man, Joel, he was so funny.
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He was interesting.
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He was charismatic.
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Can't wait to see him again.
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Yeah.
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So what did you learn from that session?
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I don't know something about points, but he was great.
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I failed.
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That's an epic fail because my job was not to make me look good or to
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make people think of me as a great public speaker but to receive my point.
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So it makes them more effective communicators.
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speaking of actors and speaking of actresses.
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We'd do something pretty cool.
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I read in preparation, not just your books and the new edition, but an INC.
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article that you wrote, and the INC. article was about a brilliant speech from
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Demi Moore, and you mentioned how you can lose impact on how the effectiveness
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of language and language is really the operating system for the human mind.
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So the language you constantly iterate to yourself and your constant monkey
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chatter and monkey brain chatter is so effective to you as well.
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And if you can change that language, you can change how
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you then perform in the world.
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And I share that because there's so much more in this speech than just
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a brilliant speech by Demi Moore.
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There's how she was affected by a seed planted in her mind that
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actually was a toxic one as well.
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So I'm gonna share that for our audience here and then Joel is going
24:12
to deconstruct it for us and tell us why it's such an effective speech.
24:16
Oh wow.
24:18
I really wasn't expecting that.
24:22
I'm just in shock right now.
24:24
I've been doing this a long time, like over 45 years, and this is the first
24:29
time I've ever won anything as an actor.
24:35
And I'm just so humbled and so grateful.
24:39
30 years ago I had a producer tell me that, I was a popcorn actress
24:48
and, at that time I made that mean that this wasn't something that I was allowed
24:54
to have, that I could do movies that were successful, that made a lot of money,
24:58
but that I couldn't be acknowledged.
25:00
And I bought in and I believed that.
25:04
That corroded me over time to the point where I thought a few
25:08
years ago that maybe this was it.
25:10
Maybe I was complete.
25:12
Maybe I would, I've done what I was supposed to do, and as I was
25:15
at a low point, I had this magical, bold, courageous, out of the box,
25:23
absolutely Bonker script come across my desk called the substance.
25:28
And,
25:30
the universe told me that you're not done, and I am so grateful
25:33
to Corley for trusting me to step in and play this woman.
25:39
For Margaret, for being the other half of me that I couldn't have done without
25:44
for looking out for me to the people who've been with me for over 30 years.
25:49
Kevin Youin.
25:50
Jason Weinberg, everybody at CAA, Untitled, lead.
25:54
All of the people who've stood by me, especially the people who've believed
25:58
in me when I haven't believed in myself, and I'll just leave you with one thing
26:03
that I think this movie is imparting, is in those moments when we don't
26:08
think we're smart enough or pretty enough or skinny enough, or successful
26:11
enough, or basically just not enough.
26:15
I had a woman say to me.
26:17
Just know you will never be enough, but you can know the value of your worth if
26:23
you just put down the measuring stick.
26:25
And so today I celebrate this as a marker of my wholeness and of the
26:31
love that is driving me and for the gift of doing something I love and
26:35
being reminded that I do belong.
26:37
Thank you so much.
26:40
a bit of a tear jerker for me.
26:41
I think that's such an effective speech, not just.
26:43
It probably is because of her point, and it's probably just because
26:47
there's so much meaning in it of how the words of someone else can
26:51
inspire or restrict somebody's growth.
26:54
And there's so much in that.
26:55
I just absolutely love the point, but Joel, I'd love you to deconstruct it, as
26:59
I said, tell us why it was so effective.
27:03
Sure.
27:04
And to tell you the truth, I love to use examples from people from whom
27:08
you don't always expect speeches.
27:10
I don't think.
27:11
I'm going to make a lot of progress by showing you JFK or Ronald Reagan or
27:15
Martin Luther King because we already hold those people in such esteem.
27:20
And there is a strong focus on words there.
27:22
Here we're used to a lot of thank yous a lot of blather, a lot of things that
27:27
aren't interesting, and I think a lot of celebrities actually goof this.
27:32
Because they don't come prepared with a point.
27:34
They may come prepared with a lot of words but I see a lot of epic fails
27:38
because they don't make a point.
27:40
Now here, Demi Moore, she had a point and she also had a story.
27:44
She wanted to talk about how she was able to advance from this caricature
27:51
of her as a popcorn actress and become and realize for herself.
27:58
convey to others that she could do more.
28:02
the point was so compact and she used words like a, a popcorn actress
28:08
and she was able to summarize it, that it really came through.
28:11
But let's actually unpack this.
28:13
So the first thing that I think she did right was she ditched the script.
28:17
Now, it may be possible that she memorized it because she's an
28:20
actress and she could do that.
28:21
Most of us can't memorize something and say it authentically.
28:25
But it gave her, as you said before, more eye contact and more authenticity.
28:29
When she did thank people, she didn't just say a bunch of names, which would.
28:33
You know, not interest us at all for each person.
28:36
She talked about why.
28:38
So she talked about why Margaret Qualy was the other half of me that
28:42
I could have done without, or she thanked the director for trusting her.
28:48
Her story is so compelling and she leveraged it that way, although
28:52
that doesn't mean that any story from us has to be cinematic.
28:57
But her story was about her decades long.
29:00
Narrative and like I said, of being labeled as this popcorn actress.
29:05
What it did was that story made her relatable because
29:09
we've all been stereotyped.
29:10
We all might've been limited by someone else's sense of us.
29:15
She also talked about impact, not just events.
29:19
When she was called a popcorn actress, she talked about how that hurt
29:22
her, how that hurt her self-esteem.
29:25
Finally she ended with a call to action.
29:29
She said that for those of us who feel that we may not be enough,
29:33
which is a lot of people know that we need to have faith in ourselves,
29:39
we need to celebrate our wholeness.
29:41
And really, it was a story about transformation, but it was, what
29:47
I always tell my students is.
29:49
Don't forget the what this means to you, why this matters
29:53
to you, how this can help you.
29:55
And she did that by saying, I hope you learn from my transformation so that
30:00
you too can raise your sense of what you can achieve and your own ambition.
30:06
and genuinely one of the reasons I do the show, because as I said to
30:10
you at the start, there's so many brilliant people out there who struggle
30:15
with the communication of a point.
30:17
Or communicate their brilliant ideas or even their self-talk like we saw
30:21
with Demi Moore there, that it's just, it's just toxic and holding them
30:25
back from a life worth living really.
30:28
So it's, it's why I really like doing these type of shows at
30:32
january, the root of January is this.
30:34
Word Janus, which is the Greek God of new beginnings or doorways.
30:38
And I love that as a, just a mental model for January's, a chance to just
30:43
get going and lean into these things.
30:45
So just a moment on this because I really wanted to double click
30:50
on what is a point, because.
30:53
Again, we can get lost on this and we can think maybe the title or
30:56
the topic or the lack of uniqueness is the point, but actually you say
31:02
it's something totally different.
31:03
So I really love to hammer.
31:04
If there's nothing else we get across from today's episode,
31:07
it's what the heck is the point?
31:08
I often say that in my training, if you got nothing else out of this, let's
31:12
discuss what, how we define a point.
31:14
First, let's talk about what a point is not 'cause this is critical.
31:18
If we're not making points, what are we making?
31:20
Topics is number one.
31:22
Sometimes categories, sometimes catchphrases, themes,
31:26
observations, ideas, titles.
31:28
We sometimes fall in love with titles.
31:31
But a point is, like I said, a proposal, an argument, an
31:34
assertion, there were two exercises.
31:38
If you don't mind my sharing one was in the original version of the book, and
31:41
that's called the, I believe, that test.
31:43
But another one that's just as useful that I added in the new
31:46
second edition is called the XY test.
31:49
They're both very easy.
31:50
The I believe test goes like this.
31:52
You take what you think is your point a colleague, to a partner, to a vendor,
31:57
to a customer, to a colleague, and.
32:00
It's one sentence.
32:01
It's the one idea you want them to take away about your
32:04
differentiation, your value.
32:06
You put the words, I believe that in front of it, and you ask yourself one question.
32:12
Is what I have now, a complete sentence.
32:16
it impress my elementary school teachers as a complete sentence,
32:21
not a fragment or a run on?
32:24
it is a complete sentence, then you are on your way to making a strong point.
32:29
If it is not, you need to reimagine it so that it's, and
32:32
lemme just give you one example.
32:34
I believe that podcasting not a complete sentence, so podcasting is not a point.
32:40
believe that the importance of podcasting, the value of podcasting, the future
32:44
of podcasting, not complete sentences.
32:47
So none of those are points.
32:49
I, you know, the value of podcasting, the future of podcasting, remember,
32:54
we're using, I believe that as a test, not necessarily using those
32:57
words, but when we say, I believe that podcasting is the best way to reach
33:03
our Generation Z audience, that's a complete sentence, and that is the kind
33:09
of point that makes you go, Hmm, okay.
33:12
Tell me more.
33:13
I'd like to reach a millennial audience, and I know they like podcasts.
33:16
Let's get to the nitty gritty of using podcasts to reach our millennial audience.
33:21
And the second test, which I just added really kind of brings us into
33:25
an algebraic function, an equation.
33:27
It's called the XY test.
33:29
And basically it's this phrase, if we do x. Y, the letter Y will result.
33:37
So in the phrase, podcasting will enable us to reach this generation Z audience.
33:42
The X is podcasting.
33:44
The a y is reaching this particular audience.
33:49
A teacher might see it the same way.
33:50
I'm using this very specific multicultural curriculum so that
33:56
more kids will be able to graduate.
33:59
Now, an X without a Y sounds like I wanna use a multicultural curriculum.
34:04
To which someone said, well, that sounds cool, but y now a Y without
34:09
an X sounds like I wanna get more of these kids to graduate.
34:13
That sounds awesome.
34:14
How are we going to do that?
34:16
So that's why you need both X, the mechanism to effect y, the outcome.
34:22
I thought that was such an important one for.
34:25
We've all had that colleague who is, comes across with great
34:29
credibility, great gravitas, and oftentimes we don't know why.
34:33
We just go that person, Joel is great in meetings, isn't he?
34:36
Or he's so wise, et cetera.
34:38
And again, back to that point I said about the Demi Moore effect, you want people to.
34:44
Be able to do that themselves, to impart their brilliant knowledge.
34:46
Like you said, introverts, neurodiverse, people are often a bit more shy in those
34:52
kind of surroundings, but if they have these tools and they can just deliver the
34:56
point, at the very least, they don't have to do all the fluffy bits around that, but
35:00
be able to deliver the point effectively.
35:02
Something you said is stuck in my brain earlier about sales teams.
35:06
The truth of the matter to me is in an organization is in sales.
35:12
Everyone, not just the sales team, because if you're not selling a
35:16
product, you are selling an idea.
35:18
It may be a micro idea for that week, it may be a huge campaign
35:22
for the year or for the quarter.
35:24
In either case, just like you wouldn't just share news about
35:29
a product, you shouldn't just share details about an idea.
35:33
You should be selling both.
35:35
So what does it mean to sell an idea?
35:38
That is to make a point.
35:41
Brilliant Joel.
35:42
And there's a last point on that, which is, so the.
35:44
I believe test.
35:45
There's the XY test and then there's the truism buster test,
35:48
which is just the cherry on top.
35:51
Yeah, the truism test is because I found a lot of people who
35:54
are passing the, I believe that test, but we're stating truisms.
35:58
Our idea is new.
36:01
The sun is hot, is white.
36:05
I I believe that politicians sometimes don't tell the full truth.
36:12
These are things that on their face, which means.
36:16
You don't need to give a presentation about them.
36:19
We assume them to be true.
36:20
It's like one plus one equals two.
36:23
when you make your point and it passes the, I believe that test could,
36:26
you could say that I believe that a lot of people are using podcasts.
36:31
I believe that this organization was founded in 1898.
36:36
But that's not a compelling point.
36:38
And in fact, it fails the XY test the ways that you can.
36:44
Fix something that's a truism or at least root out.
36:47
Understand that it's a truism are asking two questions.
36:50
One, is there a feasible counterpoint to this?
36:54
someone could reasonably argue the opposite, then it's not a truism.
36:58
Or if it's something your audience is unaware of that you need to educate
37:02
them, then it is not a truism because you're giving them new information.
37:08
just be careful, you know, because.
37:12
A sales pitch could start with, Hey, did you know we were founded in 1899?
37:16
And by the way, this has so many features.
37:19
And then the, the client might leave by thinking, Hey, did you know
37:23
that company was founded in 1899?
37:26
So be careful about what you're saying.
37:28
Make sure you're putting mustard on, which is what I like to say.
37:31
You're emphasizing the true point.
37:34
You could say that as many times as you want because no one will come back
37:37
to you later and say, Hey, you know, Joel was great, but you know what?
37:40
He made his point too many times.
37:42
That doesn't happen because the point is the gift.
37:45
The point is the one thing you need to get on your bicycle and deliver from
37:49
point A to point B. And if you do that.
37:52
You succeed because that's the goal.
37:54
Just like it was for Demi
37:56
Before we sharpen our points and we'll tell our audience how
37:59
to do that, I thought a really important thing was to call out.
38:02
We are told to do this.
38:03
We're told to tell 'em what you're gonna tell them.
38:05
Tell them and then tell them what you told them.
38:07
But when I read this book, and particularly the second time
38:10
actually, it was tell them the point, reiterate the point, back up the
38:16
point, sharpen the point, deliver the point, and then tell them the point.
38:21
So it's a different, it's actually a different lens to see it.
38:24
And a couple of things Watch out.
38:26
You say here, and I've been, I've been guilty of this and, and actually.
38:29
I, I realize why I've been guilty of this.
38:31
It's depends on how you're introduced.
38:33
Sometimes, or sometimes if you're speaking at an event or running a
38:37
workshop, you'll be introduced as, actually, you know what, this is Aiden.
38:41
We'll let him do his own introduction, and in that moment you lose the, the.
38:47
The opportunity to deliver a point, or if you deliver it, it's almost,
38:52
you deliver this important point and then you have to kind of back out and
38:54
go, lemme tell you a bit about myself, but from reading this, I was like
38:57
going, I can still get around that.
38:59
I just need to, to sharpen it, my intro a little bit better.
39:03
Yeah.
39:03
In fact, I used to begin my years ago, I used to start with about two
39:07
or three minutes of my background, why I was credentialed and why
39:11
I have the reputation or the qualification to speak to you today.
39:17
Aristotle would call that ethos.
39:19
But the thing is they already chose me.
39:21
I might even be in a program, somebody probably introduced me.
39:24
I don't need to spend my time with that.
39:26
That's like saying I started in such and such year.
39:29
So I wanna start with my point.
39:31
And in fact, got a challenge once from someone who was opening a conference
39:36
and introducing speakers, and he said, I don't have a point because
39:40
it's really the speaker's points.
39:41
I'm just introducing them.
39:43
To which I said, well, isn't it your job to explain to the
39:47
audience why you chose them?
39:49
Why they are relevant to this conference and what you hope and believe they
39:53
can get out of that presentation.
39:56
just like you said, when you introduce a panel, you wanna do the introducing
40:01
for a lot of technical reasons 'cause you don't want them to go on and on.
40:04
It could be a whole mess.
40:05
But you are doing your job as a moderator to tell the audience why this
40:10
topic and these experts are relevant.
40:14
So I think that's true, and I do like what you said about that old idea.
40:18
Tell him what you're gonna tell him.
40:19
Tell him, tell him what you told him.
40:21
Let's, you know.
40:21
Channel Simon.
40:22
Cynic a little bit here by saying it's more about the why not the what.
40:28
Start with a hook that introduces the point.
40:31
Tell the point.
40:33
into your first which supports your point.
40:36
Your second idea would support your point.
40:38
Your third idea would support your point, your charts, and your data,
40:41
which support your point, your stories, which support your point.
40:44
And by reinforcing your point, make your point the very last thing you said.
40:48
'cause at the end of the day, the ball game is about delivering that point.
40:53
Not delivering perfect words or being seen as a, a great presenter.
40:57
of the things I definitely benefit from Joel is.
41:00
Almost doing the show for 10 years now, a decade long doing the show, but
41:04
also writing about it and continually letting those ideas marinate.
41:09
And then when I am mc or an event, or I'm a keynote speaker, it looks
41:14
like it's effortless, but it's like so much knowledge compounded.
41:18
But to your point as well, I can then introduce the speaker
41:21
very, very differently than anyone, any normal mc would.
41:24
And by that I mean some mc who's just reading.
41:28
Oh, this is Joel Schwartzberg and, and trying to spelling your name
41:31
wrong and not knowing your book titles, all this kind of stuff,
41:34
Oh,
41:34
but I, I say that for a reason.
41:36
There's a couple of things that happen at events and, but maybe we'll turn
41:39
the spotlight on that for a moment.
41:42
Let's think about our audience here.
41:43
So most of 'em aren't professional speakers, but maybe called
41:47
to be on a panel sometimes.
41:49
And sometimes you're called on a panel and you're trying to make a point, and
41:53
then you get sidelined by somebody else.
41:55
And sometimes they're trying to hijack you.
41:56
Sometimes they're trying to make their point through you or trying to compete
42:00
with your point, and you give advice in the book on how to deal with that.
42:03
Yeah, this was new for the second edition because.
42:07
The, one of the top questions I would get during the q and a session of
42:10
the training is am interrupted all the time, and it may be a panel,
42:16
but usually it's just a meeting.
42:18
What do I do that doesn't make it awkward?
42:20
Doesn't make me seem mad.
42:22
and you see a lot of this on social media too, but this is the trick that I learned.
42:27
I forget where I learned it, honestly.
42:29
I would love to give credit for it.
42:31
but this is what I recommend when someone interrupts you.
42:36
Let them finish their sentence.
42:39
Don't interrupt back.
42:40
That creates awkwardness.
42:42
You don't want to go after them.
42:43
Hey, hey, hey.
42:44
'cause that makes everyone feel awkward.
42:46
But you don't wanna just sort of recede into your corner and
42:50
not having made your point.
42:52
You need to make your point because you are our subject matter expert,
42:55
whatever you're doing in that meeting.
42:57
So here's what you do.
42:58
You let that person finish their sentence, then you thank them
43:03
as much as it hurts to do it.
43:05
You thank them for their point.
43:07
You may even say, oh, that's pretty wise, or, I'll have to think about that later.
43:12
But I just wanted to finish what I was saying.
43:15
Thank you for that input.
43:16
That's very interesting.
43:18
I just wanna make sure everyone understands the
43:20
point I was making, which is.
43:23
And what that does is it settles everybody because you then just complimented
43:27
the person who interrupted you.
43:29
So there's no weirdness.
43:30
We're all friends here, and you still get to finish your point, I know it's a very
43:35
tactical thing, but I, I just loved it
43:38
another really important one, and we're gonna come to sharpen your point
43:41
in a moment, but is your endings.
43:44
And, and I realized this one, I could foresee this when I ran an event, the
43:48
reinvention summit this year, at the end of my keynote, I had to then send
43:54
people for coffee and I was, and firstly, there was gonna be like a five minute.
43:59
Piece played before coffee and I was like, my ending was
44:03
actually quite making a point.
44:05
It was dramatic, and it was a call to action
44:06
and then I had to go, okay.
44:08
And, I gave, I just gave it a beat, as you say.
44:10
So give it a beat and then go, let's go to coffee.
44:14
Because, to change, to have a new mc on to actually announce that
44:18
just felt awkward or just like a waste of a couple of minutes.
44:21
But really, I probably should have.
44:23
And your endings are really important.
44:24
This is my way of introducing endings.
44:26
Endings are so important and they're not just a throwaway idea.
44:30
For example, this medication will save lives.
44:35
All go for.
44:39
Yeah, there's this research on something called primacy and recency, and these
44:44
are the two zones of where you get your audiences the most of their attention,
44:49
and it's also the zone of memorability.
44:52
They'll remember the first part and the second part.
44:54
The first part, because that's not competing with anything else.
44:57
You said you just started the recency part is because it's the last thing you hear.
45:02
So you don't want the last thing be.
45:04
Alright, now it's time for q and a. Alright, now let's
45:06
bring up the next speaker.
45:07
Now let's have lunch, or I'm gonna end with this quote by someone
45:11
who died a hundred years ago that I thought was kind of funny.
45:13
You know, really that's the last thing you want people, so you're
45:16
ruining that opportunity for recency.
45:19
But the, you alluded to the fix, which is pause.
45:23
it sink in.
45:24
When it sinks in, it becomes part of people's memory.
45:30
But don't just pause because you know to put a pause there or for a break.
45:33
Let's understand that audience needs time process everything you say.
45:40
We often think the moment it escapes our mouths.
45:42
They got it and they could write it down, but it's not true.
45:46
for us because we've been practicing this for weeks.
45:48
We've been thinking about it for months.
45:50
We perfected the words, we perfected the PowerPoint.
45:53
They are hearing it for the very first time.
45:57
they need to listen to it, hear it.
45:59
So digest it, apply it.
46:01
Is this relevant for me?
46:02
Should I bring this up at the next meeting?
46:04
Should I tweet this?
46:05
Should I think more about this?
46:08
Should I make this part of my goals?
46:11
the speaker is about seven sentences down the road, seven sentences
46:15
you never heard because you were busy processing that point.
46:19
So at the very end where you're taking the last opportunity, you're taking advantage
46:23
of recency to make your point, stop.
46:26
Count to four or five in your head, no one's gonna think you fell asleep.
46:32
so you let that sink in almost to say, let's gimme time
46:36
to let them write it down.
46:39
Way they'll remember it.
46:40
And you know, I don't talk about a lot of tactics in my training.
46:46
I mean, I don't talk about 25, I talk about five, but one of
46:49
them is definitely pausing.
46:51
'cause we often think pausing is for a dramatic effect.
46:54
And it is.
46:55
But pausing is critical to helping our audience process
46:59
and digest what we're saying.
47:01
It is also critical for helping us contemplate what we're about to say.
47:06
So our mind scripts, our mouth, and our mouth can say it.
47:11
'cause often we lead with our mouths, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
47:14
And our mind is like, wait, wait, wait.
47:15
I'd like to make sense of that.
47:17
I'd like to put those words in a particular order.
47:21
like to swap out that word for this word, but I can't do that unless
47:25
you give me time to script you.
47:28
So that's the beauty of pausing also,
47:30
when I finished rugby, I was a cocommentator.
47:34
So in sports games, the Cocom, so you have the commentator who covers all the
47:37
action and the Cocom is there to come in for a bit of color every so often.
47:42
right?
47:42
Right.
47:42
And that was so bad.
47:44
The first one.
47:44
I remember the guy, and he was a brilliant, he was a South African
47:48
guy, very animated, and he's like going, wow, what an amazing
47:50
score, Aiden, what do you think?
47:52
And he turns to me and I'm like, oh yeah, it was a really good score.
47:54
He scored in the corner, right?
47:57
So it went, it went, but went on and he's like, the play went on.
48:01
There was a breaking plane.
48:02
He is like, he's going, let me just give you a tip, Aiden.
48:04
He said, when you're about to speak, take a deep breath and then just deliver it
48:10
as a breath and your volume will raise, your articulation will be better and it
48:16
will stop you saying or or filler word.
48:19
And it was a brilliant piece of advice to, I've carried it everywhere myself.
48:23
So.
48:24
The, the breath to avoid the filler word, but also to just deliver with impact.
48:29
There's two things in there.
48:30
One is the breadth to avoid filler words.
48:31
The other is the importance of volume.
48:34
And
48:34
I'm talking to the ladies who listen to this show.
48:38
Half of our audience are female.
48:41
And what I find a lot with many women is they will say to me, it sounds like
48:46
I'm being aggressive if I raise my voice in a meeting or sometimes when I'm
48:50
speaking and I'll go, absolutely not.
48:53
That's not the case.
48:54
And if somebody thinks that they're the problem.
48:58
Right.
48:59
Yeah.
49:00
And I, I, I hesitate before using that phrase, raise your voice.
49:02
'cause in school we learned that was like yelling at someone.
49:06
So let's talk about raising your volume, by which we also mean raising your energy.
49:10
If you actually raise your volume, you'll have more energy.
49:14
so when you do that.
49:17
You are not only more audible, which is obvious, oh, I need to reach
49:21
the people in the back of the room.
49:23
But it increases your impression of auth of authority, of credibility,
49:31
of confidence of subject matter, knowledge of leadership.
49:38
And I don't just say that because I assume it, I've run this particular test
49:42
o over 10 years in all of my trainings.
49:44
Here's what happens.
49:46
People share their points and then I ask one or two or three people, and
49:50
they're men and women, and I ask them to say it again, but say it with a volume.
49:55
That is uncomfortably loud, weirdly loud, awkwardly loud.
50:01
Don't scream or shout.
50:03
Just do it at a volume at which you would probably never do it.
50:07
And they're like, okay.
50:09
then they speak like, you and I are speaking now like this as opposed to
50:14
like this, and this is what I think.
50:16
then I asked the audience and their participants and their colleagues.
50:20
What changed in your impression of that person as a result of the volume?
50:25
And here's what they say, person sounded more confident,
50:30
excited, more authoritative.
50:32
And here's my favorite one more.
50:34
Assertive and being more assertive is very valuable because that's
50:40
what you want to do with a point.
50:43
Now to elaborate on what you just said, Aidan, some people may come
50:46
into the root and feel like because you are louder, you are coming
50:50
across as aggressive or shrill even.
50:54
that is not about you.
50:55
That is about them.
50:58
that is about sexism and it may happen, but your job is always to speak up
51:04
even when their job is to grow up.
51:07
So I really recommend people are do that.
51:09
Now, some people attach volume to a male normative behavior that comes from long
51:16
ago when only men were in charge and they were loud and they were confident.
51:23
So they try to distance from that.
51:24
And that is an antiquated point of view.
51:26
We do wanna get away from that.
51:28
So it help if it's helpful for you to think of it as energy versus volume.
51:33
I use those interchangeably, but go back to that test.
51:37
I do.
51:37
And that's across all genders, across all ages, across all experiences.
51:44
When you speak up, you sound more interested in what you're saying
51:49
and you sound more confident.
51:51
And if I can insert something here, Aiden's, something I
51:54
learned only weeks ago this theory called emotional contagion.
52:00
This isn't even in the book.
52:01
Emotional contagion.
52:03
You can Google it where there's research saying that when you're
52:06
talking to someone and they're excited.
52:09
So let's say I'm talking to you, Aiden, you're excited.
52:12
I will wanna mimic that excitement.
52:14
So if you're smiling, I'll smile.
52:15
If you're excited, I'll be excited.
52:17
And because I'm mimicking it, I become excited.
52:20
So basically, I will be as excited as you are.
52:23
If you are not excited, I will not be excited.
52:27
So that is a really great thing to think about when you know you need to
52:31
not only make your point, but be the cheerleader for your point so that
52:37
your audience can also be excited.
52:39
as I mentioned to you, I work as an mc sometimes at events, but actually the
52:43
show is the best preparation you can ever get for that because as you know
52:47
and anybody who's been on the show, I do look at the person speaking and I nod
52:52
and smile 'cause I'm actually absorbing the content and I don't have just a list
52:56
of questions that I follow verbatim.
52:59
And I think that's actually the death of so many conversations.
53:02
And in particular, if you've ever been on the show, I remember always.
53:05
Do you remember Wayne's World, Joe?
53:08
That's true.
53:08
Yeah.
53:08
There's a scene where they go to the local radio station and they're
53:11
being interviewed by the dj and he is looking down and he is pressing
53:15
all these sound effects and he's not listening to 'em, and they're like
53:17
going, I could say anything to you, man.
53:20
And, and he's like, Uhhuh, Uhhuh.
53:22
I won't say what they actually call them, Google that one.
53:26
But it's great.
53:27
But I always have that in my mind that it's so.
53:31
It just breaks the connection between you and the speaker.
53:34
You don't get to that extra level of depth, and as a result, you break
53:38
that emotional contagion between you.
53:40
And I think it's just such a secret sauce of any conversation is to be making
53:44
eye contact and actually playing off what they're saying, not actually just
53:49
following a script and going, yeah, we must get a, I must ask my questions.
53:52
I think that's just such a breaker.
53:54
So speaking of breakers.
53:56
And I thought we'd, we'd land the ship.
53:58
We'd we'd and, and there's a specific point for this landing the ship.
54:02
We'll talk about that in a second.
54:03
We will actually finish with that.
54:05
But before we do is to how to sharpen your point so we know what the point is.
54:10
I hope we know how to tighten the point, deliver a point.
54:14
We know some how to pause around the point, but there's four specific
54:18
tactics that help sharpen a point.
54:20
And these alone.
54:22
First, if we get the point and then if you use these, you will be even
54:26
a better writer as a result of that.
54:29
So one thing interesting I learned after coaching people about to make
54:33
this higher value outcome when they make their points was that when their points
54:39
ended with impacts on living things on people, on animals, on customers,
54:45
on clients, on society, on patients.
54:49
It had more resonance with the people listening.
54:52
There was more of a human to human connection.
54:56
so what I also encourage now is when you end your point with an
54:59
impact, bring in a living person.
55:04
Is this affecting a human being somehow, even if you're selling
55:09
Coca-Cola, is it making someone happy or fulfilling their lives?
55:13
When you do, when you mention that person, you include them in your impact.
55:18
You just have a stronger, more memorable, ending and a, a meaning
55:23
and a value, to what you're saying.
55:26
You mentioned that there's another one, there's four actually in
55:29
the book, and we're gonna let people get the book to do that.
55:31
It's a really short read.
55:32
I highly recommend it.
55:33
It's one of those books, it's not just a read, it's a playbook.
55:38
So you have to return to it, maybe check in with it every so often,
55:42
and it's just really effective way to become a better communicator.
55:46
But one, I loved a amongst the four there, and I guess it could be the one you chose
55:51
as well as adjectives your own term.
55:54
Yes.
55:56
Yeah.
55:57
What I found now, this applies to writing as well.
56:00
found is that we have an over-reliance on what I call adjectives.
56:04
A adjective is an ad adjective, and sometimes adverb.
56:08
That's so broad.
56:09
That it's virtually useless.
56:11
It's a waste of a word.
56:14
I often say, you know, yesterday I had a very important, very valuable
56:21
and very meaningful tuna fish sandwich for lunch, uh, because I was hungry.
56:25
I love tuna fish, and it meant a lot to me that day.
56:29
Now when I use the same words, meaningful, valuable, important I
56:34
would use for a tuna fish sandwich, would I use that for a campaign a
56:38
huge game changing marketing idea?
56:41
I wouldn't.
56:42
So we need to avoid these words.
56:43
Very good.
56:44
Awesome.
56:45
Great is a word we hear all the time.
56:47
This idea is great, you know, well, lots of things are great and what's
56:51
great to you may not be great to me.
56:53
So to solve the adjective problem, we again introduce this word.
56:56
Why?
56:57
Why is it great?
56:59
idea is great because it'll save us money that we can apply toward r
57:03
and d or this idea is great because it'll help us, lose fewer files
57:09
because they'll be kept in the cloud.
57:11
Now you have a real reason.
57:15
So you move from this idea is great to, this idea is great because it
57:21
will enable us to save our files.
57:23
Now we don't even need the adjective anymore, so let's turn
57:26
it from a three part to a two part.
57:28
This idea will enable us keep and better save Our files go right from the
57:36
X to the Y, the means to the impact.
57:38
And we don't even have to use that adjective of great at all.
57:42
So the three step process, identify the adjective.
57:46
Great, very good.
57:47
Could I apply this to a tuna fish sandwich?
57:49
Then ask why and make that your point, and then remove the adjective.
57:54
So now you just have a means and a real specific and meaningful impact.
57:59
And speaking of which I'm holding up here, the pin for those people just
58:02
listening to us, it's the exclamation mark again, and I loved how you.
58:06
I put this, so picture in your mind a gymnast going over the horse.
58:11
And then where you see this, so many times I'm thinking of that movie where
58:15
the girl has broken, her ankles, straps it up, but still sticks the landing.
58:19
That's the term I was grasping for earlier on.
58:22
Sticks the landing perfectly and sticking the landing is how
58:25
to finish your presentation.
58:27
It's how to make your point effectively.
58:29
It's how to end a meeting.
58:31
It's how to inspire a team.
58:32
It's how as a innovation or a corporate innovator to inspire
58:36
somebody to invest in your idea.
58:38
Let's finish on sticking the landing.
58:40
you know, we talked about recency, the power of recency.
58:43
We talked about making the point you, the last thing you say, sometimes people
58:48
could say, okay, so I'll make my point.
58:50
Then I'll talk about how they can get their parking stickers validated.
58:55
Then I'll talk about where we're going for lunch.
58:58
Well, listen.
58:58
The last word is the last word before you walk away.
59:03
Sticking the landing means saving all that stuff.
59:07
For the middle, even the q and a, for the middle, you could even have two endings.
59:11
So I hope you see how this idea is gonna save the world.
59:15
Then you do q and a, then you talk about the agenda.
59:19
Then you say, before I leave, I just want to reinforce that without a point.
59:24
Everything you say.
59:25
Could be pointless.
59:27
you restate it in a different way.
59:28
But the bottom line is before you walk away, the very last thing you should
59:33
be doing is reinforcing your point.
59:36
'cause you know that's the stickiest moment of your
59:39
Beautiful man, and you didn't finish on up talking or anything.
59:42
That's a little teaser.
59:43
Check out the book to find out more about that, Joel, for people who
59:46
do wanna reach out to you, people who want to invest in their people
59:49
who are constantly selling our.
59:51
Ideas.
59:51
Where's the best place to find you?
59:53
I always direct people to my website, which is www.joelschwartzberg.net,
1:00:00
J-O-E-L-S-C-H-W-A-R-T-Z.
1:00:03
BER g.net.
1:00:05
That's where I have my videos.
1:00:07
I have all of this podcast and other podcasts I've been on, and one of
1:00:11
the big reasons I like to send people there, not just to find out more about
1:00:14
my books, but I've written hundreds of articles for Harvard Business
1:00:18
Review Fast Company inc.com, Newsweek.
1:00:22
I put them all there and all the titles are very intuitive.
1:00:26
So if you think you talk too quickly, if you think you don't know how to start
1:00:29
a speech, if you think you're not being authentic or confident enough, how can
1:00:34
you, make your presentation better?
1:00:36
That way you can almost look at this library of titles and find
1:00:40
what most matches your need and then read those free articles.
1:00:44
I'm not gonna finish on that because I'm gonna finish with you landing your point.
1:00:48
Once again, I wanna point to the, speaking of which point, to the library here
1:00:53
behind me to point out Joel's two books.
1:00:55
There's actually three, so there's the updated version of
1:00:57
Get to the point there as well.
1:00:58
It's a brilliant read.
1:00:59
I learned so much.
1:01:01
As a speaker, as an mc, as a podcaster, as a writer in this as well, and it's just a
1:01:07
always a pleasure to have you on the show.
1:01:09
Joe, what is your last message?
1:01:11
To get the point across to our audience.
1:01:13
My last message, and I'm gonna borrow from some media
1:01:16
training here in media training.
1:01:18
There's always a last question and the last question is often,
1:01:21
so expert, anything else we missed or what else do you wanna say?
1:01:25
And that spokesperson will often think, all right, what's the 13th
1:01:29
most important thing, I wanna say that I haven't said yet?
1:01:33
Well, that's the wrong internal question.
1:01:35
question is, how can I use this opportunity to reinforce the
1:01:39
most important thing I said?
1:01:41
Again, primacy and recency.
1:01:42
So to you, Aiden, and to your audience, my message is make sure you're
1:01:48
conveying your most valuable point.
1:01:51
You're championing that point.
1:01:54
That is the best way to make people feel, think and do.
1:01:59
Author of the Language of Leadership and get to the point.
1:02:03
Joel Schwartzberg, thank you for joining us.
1:02:06
Thank you
1:02:07
And I want to thank also our sponsor, Kyndryl, who runs and reimagines the
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