Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Songs In The Skin. [RHR S6, EP38 feat. Joshua Pennington]

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Songs In The Skin. [RHR S6, EP38 feat. Joshua Pennington] · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:02
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic
• 0:08
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse and I am your
• 0:11
  host. Let's get into it.
• 0:35
  The Olivet Here workshop is dedicated to the Old ways,
• 0:38
  offering a wide selection of animus, ritual supplies,
• 0:42
  divination tools, altered goods and home decor, including
• 0:45
  premium reindeer hides imported from traditional herders in
• 0:49
  Northern Finland. Whether you're just starting
• 0:51
  your spiritual journey or looking to expand your
• 0:54
  collection with a custom drum, we have everything you need.
• 0:58
  Visit our online store at The Olivet here.
• 1:05
  Hey folks, Jesse here, host of Random Heathen Ramblings, a
• 1:09
  podcast where we dive deep into myth, traditions, and modern
• 1:14
  spirituality from the perspective of Germanic
• 1:17
  heathens. For over six seasons, this show
• 1:21
  has grown into something more than I could have ever expected.
• 1:26
  And now I'm taking the next leap.
• 1:29
  I am officially opening the door to sponsorships and
• 1:34
  collaborations. This means that I am actively
• 1:38
  seeking to partner with brands, artisans, organizations,
• 1:44
  businesses that align with the vision of this podcast.
• 1:48
  Ancestral wisdom, holistic Wellness, grounded spirituality,
• 1:54
  and storytelling. If you have a product, a
• 1:57
  mission, or message that resonates with the folks who
• 2:01
  listen to random heathen ramblings, and I want to hear
• 2:05
  from you, Let's grow something real together.
• 2:09
  So check out the link down in the description of this video to
• 2:12
  connect with me. And as always, thank you so very
• 2:16
  much for joining me on this wild and worthy journey.
• 2:28
  All right, everyone, welcome back to the show this week.
• 2:31
  Thank you for being here, Thank you for tuning in, thank you for
• 2:33
  supporting, thank you for sharing, thank you for
• 2:35
  participating. Just thank you.
• 2:37
  I'm very grateful and very appreciative of all of your
• 2:41
  involvement here over the years and here recently.
• 2:44
  Just all of my new guests and people who have been meeting
• 2:47
  through community connections, emails, posts and such.
• 2:52
  It's great to have you all here. We're going to get right into
• 2:55
  the show today. Not going to really beat around
• 2:57
  the Bush because there's nothing to beat around.
• 2:59
  All the bushes have been trimmed.
• 3:00
  It's coming into autumn now. Cool nights, cool days, just
• 3:06
  relaxation. So without further ado, let's go
• 3:09
  ahead and bring in my guest. More than just a guest, my
• 3:11
  brother from another mother, my friend Josh Pennington.
• 3:17
  I can't say the when you have your name on social media, the,
• 3:22
  the, the middle part. Can you, can you tell me how to
• 3:25
  pronounce that properly? Because I, I, I look at it and
• 3:28
  I'm like waka, waka, waka. And I don't know how to
• 3:32
  pronounce it properly. Yeah, it's got a lot of
• 3:34
  interesting character accents in there.
• 3:37
  Tapunich, Kaika Wanachi. And that means?
• 3:42
  Traditional name it's bright spirit or through translation
• 3:49
  bright ghost, bright spirit, lightning like.
• 3:53
  Nice. So yeah, I've, I, we, I've seen
• 3:57
  that name up on there for a while.
• 3:58
  I'm like, I got to hear him say it because I've tried just
• 4:00
  myself out of curiosity. I'm like, I'm probably
• 4:03
  butchering it and I, I can say it didn't come out quite near as
• 4:07
  good as that did. So.
• 4:08
  And that is in the monotone language, right?
• 4:14
  Tutelo. Tutelo, Tutelo.
• 4:17
  So we'll get into all that here soon.
• 4:20
  But just so I understand it's it's Tutelo is the language that
• 4:24
  the monotone people speak or spoke.
• 4:29
  Tutelo is its own language, but languages were shared a lot
• 4:35
  there. In that central location of
• 4:37
  Southwest Virginia, there were a lot of different small tribes,
• 4:43
  clans present. And so through the mix and the
• 4:48
  sharing of culture and proximity to Taylor kind of sort of took
• 4:55
  over as the shared language. Like we can all speak so many
• 5:00
  different languages by tongue, but then you've got something
• 5:03
  like ASL where signing is almost universal.
• 5:10
  I see. OK.
• 5:10
  So it kind of served that purpose with all the trade
• 5:13
  happening. And for the sake of
• 5:15
  communication, it was good to have a bigger, broader branch of
• 5:23
  language to come under. And does does Tutelo fall under
• 5:29
  any larger category of Indian languages?
• 5:37
  It's a branch of eastern Siouxen.
• 5:40
  Eastern Sioux. OK, interesting.
• 5:45
  Well, it's great to have you back on the show, brother.
• 5:47
  You're no stranger to the podcast.
• 5:49
  And you know, over the over the last seven years now, I think
• 5:53
  we, we just had like a Facebook reminder or Facebook friend
• 5:57
  anniversary of of seven years, just just just recently passed.
• 6:02
  So you're definitely no stranger to my life, no stranger to the
• 6:06
  show. It's great to have you back on
• 6:07
  here. So how's things going?
• 6:10
  You just got back from a really big pow wow in I think it was
• 6:15
  West Virginia Thunder in the mountains.
• 6:18
  Yeah, up in Fayetteville each year we get to go up and
• 6:22
  celebrate and come together with people, my people, the West
• 6:27
  Virginia Cheraw people, and just share culture, be together,
• 6:34
  drum, dance, sing, prayer. A beautiful, beautiful time.
• 6:40
  Still kind of reeling from it. The last two years.
• 6:43
  It's kind of coincided with my birthday, so I've got to
• 6:46
  celebrate my birthday there. A bigger one this year, 40,
• 6:51
  yeah. You hit the 40 club, huh?
• 6:55
  Yeah. Oh.
• 6:55
  Yeah. Dude, welcome to the club.
• 6:58
  I kept it pretty quiet throughout powwow because they
• 7:04
  kind of have a thing of making a thing of birthdays.
• 7:07
  It was a thing both days, but I was able to fly under the radar,
• 7:13
  keep it quiet, to not be pushed into that yeah, birthday
• 7:18
  spotlight. Is are birthdays a big thing
• 7:24
  with your people like this? They do they do they, you know,
• 7:27
  acknowledge the date of birth for.
• 7:29
  For. Yeah.
• 7:29
  Sure, more. Than.
• 7:31
  Anything. Just life in general each day.
• 7:35
  And you and I talked a little bit about that just the other
• 7:39
  day when you had made your post about three things that you're
• 7:44
  thankful for or appreciative of that gratitude.
• 7:51
  So it's just the same that I answered and you answered the
• 7:54
  same when you were given that question.
• 7:58
  Just each new day to live and to share and experience this life
• 8:03
  together. Yeah, yeah.
• 8:07
  It's interesting to, to talk with you about shared culture,
• 8:11
  shared beliefs. You know, over the years that
• 8:14
  we've known each other, there's been a lot of growth and a lot
• 8:17
  of. Yeah, I just, I would say a lot
• 8:21
  of growth over the years. You know, when I first met you,
• 8:23
  we, we kind of met through that whole network of Norse Pagan,
• 8:28
  you know, Germanic heathen stuff.
• 8:30
  A lot of your crafts and artwork and all that at the time were
• 8:34
  very centralized around those aesthetics, you know, the runes
• 8:39
  and, and the, the Norse is, you know, imagery of things.
• 8:42
  And while I know you still will, you know, put out pieces that
• 8:49
  honor those customs of those ways, you've definitely shifted
• 8:53
  more into your native side of, of, of, of of life and that goes
• 9:00
  through in your art a lot. So I was wondering if you could
• 9:02
  maybe point us in the direction of when that when that happened,
• 9:06
  Like why did it? Why was that the thing like or
• 9:09
  the impetus behind the direction that you took to to shift more
• 9:13
  towards that? An explanation for the shift?
• 9:18
  Yeah. All my life I've known who I am
• 9:22
  born right outside of lower Shawnee town, Portsmouth, OH.
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  Now immersed in the culture, the teachings, traditions most at
• 9:33
  the time. Growing up through the Shawnee
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  teachings up Tecumseh have stuck with me throughout my entire
• 9:40
  life. So that's always, always been
• 9:43
  there. Coming more into my spiritual
• 9:46
  self as a young adult, many, many years ago, we just talked
• 9:51
  about turning 40. Now, so many, many years ago as
• 9:55
  a young adult, deciding to get serious about my spiritual path,
• 10:02
  find out who I am, what I am, where I am in the world.
• 10:09
  I knew where I needed to go. I knew where I was being called
• 10:11
  to. But at the same time, I didn't
• 10:15
  want to fall under that cherry picking ancestry or direction.
• 10:25
  So it was very important before I went full in where I'm
• 10:32
  supposed to be, to embrace every other aspect, every other piece
• 10:38
  of my ancestry, because there's so much to it.
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  I don't think there's any person on earth, say, for a few
• 10:46
  secluded islands who are just really who they are and who
• 10:50
  they've always been. So I went on A7 year journey in
• 10:58
  that northern tradition or Scandinavian tradition.
• 11:02
  My 5th great grandfather on my mother's side immigrated from
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  Sweden as a doctor at the age of 18.
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  He landed in the United States and shifted over to Bean
• 11:15
  Station, TN and opened up his practice there and lived out his
• 11:19
  full life there, but still honoring some of those old
• 11:23
  traditions. There's a spring, a healing
• 11:26
  spring, or a mineral spring that he would utilize for his
• 11:30
  patients. There was a famous hotel right
• 11:33
  up from that spring, and I'll send you that information after
• 11:38
  the show if you'd like to share that out.
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  People can still go and visit that spring now.
• 11:44
  Cindy and I and the kids went just two years ago to visit that
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  and people are still visiting there, placing notes at the
• 11:52
  spring, prayers for children, prayers for healing, leaving
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  feathers there. He had a big impact on the local
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  community, and it's incredible that he was able to do it in a
• 12:04
  way with the spring water, the mineral water.
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  So yeah, I knew I really needed to explore everything in there
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  to be complete before settling in to home.
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  Because without that, I would always feel like there was
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  something missing, something lost.
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  I'm leaving something out. I'm leaving ancestors out and
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  how can I venerate or respect my ancestors if I'm not respecting
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  them all? So that seven-year journey got
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  me in touch with all of those as far back as possible, but then
• 12:50
  in the spirit work even further. And then when the time was right
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  and my spirit and this journey and this path that I'm on, I
• 13:02
  made that call to come home. I enrolled with my father's
• 13:08
  people and I'm a citizen of the white top nation.
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  It's quite the, it's quite the summary, man.
• 13:18
  It's quite the story. I always enjoy hearing you
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  because we've talked about it, you know, outside of this space,
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  we've talked a bit about your background, my background and
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  just how, you know, so much of our path or so much of our
• 13:29
  journey over the last seven years has has been a shared one.
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  You know, our families have become interwoven.
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  So there's that whole thing too. But it really is interesting to
• 13:40
  to hear you talk about, you know, coming back home, right?
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  Going out and sort of in a way giving space and exploring space
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  with everything that you're a part of and everything that's a
• 13:55
  part of you, but always knowing where home is and then coming
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  back to that. And like, I think we talked
• 14:00
  about once before how, or at least I know I've mentioned it
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  before, that when we talk about returning from somewhere, you
• 14:09
  know, if something is, if we, if we call it a return, then it, it
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  has to be that we've been there once before.
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  You can't return to a place that you've never been, you know.
• 14:22
  So to come back home, it's like, well, that's always, that's
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  where home is always been. And, and to go out and explore
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  or, you know, touch on those other aspects of things that
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  that's, that's part of the journey.
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  And that's part of, I think what enriches our lives is to give
• 14:36
  that, give all that space, right?
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  Not to exclude something or, or one thing, but to give it
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  honouring, to give it that space.
• 14:45
  And then and then start feeding the well, right.
• 14:48
  Start, start tending to the roots in truth and in sincerity.
• 14:53
  Absolutely, yeah. Wholeheartedly, yeah.
• 14:57
  When I was on that seven-year journey, you saw I had grown a
• 15:01
  beard down to my belly button, fully immersed, wholehearted,
• 15:06
  whole spirit delving in to take in and learn and appreciate
• 15:11
  everything that I could. And it's not like I did that and
• 15:16
  then did away with it to take on this.
• 15:17
  It's that it's now a part where I would have been missing
• 15:21
  before. Right.
• 15:25
  Yeah. So you would you say that it you
• 15:27
  know, it was, it was, it served its purpose and and if it no
• 15:32
  longer serves a purpose and then there's no need to kind of hold
• 15:36
  on to that, right. Once it's served its purpose,
• 15:38
  it's retired. Put it away.
• 15:41
  Brutality or completion. To be able to walk the path that
• 15:46
  I'm on now, earnestly, honestly, genuinely, I don't think that I
• 15:54
  could do that without having taken on that journey.
• 16:02
  Well, a lot of that journey as you talk about has a big part of
• 16:07
  your journey or maybe maybe even kind of like the the wagon that
• 16:14
  you're riding along. This journey has been the the
• 16:18
  art and the crafts that you that you produce and share with the
• 16:24
  world. Because your art and your crafts
• 16:26
  have have made it to many places outside of the USI know some
• 16:32
  have gone to Europe, maybe even Australia if I'm not mistaken.
• 16:38
  We actually shipped quite a bit to Australia.
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  They've got an amazing community in their country that they're
• 16:46
  coming back, and I think it's worldwide coming back to just a
• 16:50
  spiritual practice versus organized religion.
• 16:56
  I've noticed it in my work orders and ship all over the
• 17:02
  world. We've shipped to every continent
• 17:06
  on Earth, including Antarctica. No way, I had no idea that
• 17:12
  that's how far he's reached so Dang.
• 17:15
  The geologists and scientists that base down there throughout
• 17:20
  the year, they run in rotations. We got to ship a couple of items
• 17:25
  down while one of them we're doing their term or their
• 17:30
  session there. Wow, that's incredible.
• 17:34
  Man, what a boast, man. And, and it's good work, right?
• 17:38
  Because the, these, these items that we're talking about people.
• 17:41
  So you, you saw the ad, it kind of cut off a little bit towards
• 17:43
  the towards the end of it. But if you head to, to the
• 17:46
  description of this video, for those of you watching here on
• 17:48
  Patreon or if you're listening to this, you know, just go to
• 17:51
  the show notes. But it's fialvatier.com.
• 17:55
  And, and there's other aspects of, of what of what Josh does
• 17:59
  that is much more focused on the, the Appalachian and the
• 18:05
  native inspirations, right? So bright spirit dot art, I
• 18:09
  believe is your line of work that 100% focuses on the like
• 18:17
  the indigenous type stuff, right?
• 18:20
  Bright spirit dot art, is that right?
• 18:22
  In a way, Fiolvatier, you've got that old Norse name, Fiol and
• 18:29
  Veitier Mountain Spirit. We live right here in the Blue
• 18:33
  Ridge Mountains of North Carolina, border of Virginia.
• 18:39
  But then bright spirit art is a little more of the animus side
• 18:44
  of living here and having been here in Appalachia.
• 18:52
  So all of us here, you're going to get more of that
• 18:57
  Scandinavian, Norris, Icelandic artistry themes in the the work
• 19:07
  that's presented. But in Bright Spirit art, it's
• 19:10
  more of the continental animism that resides here in one of the
• 19:16
  oldest places on earth. Facts.
• 19:23
  You and I have shared many meaningful moments in that
• 19:26
  space. You have the the the privilege
• 19:28
  and the honor of living there full time.
• 19:30
  But we've we we've had collective experiences, you
• 19:35
  know, touching bear skin to to earth and to rock and to water
• 19:39
  and trees. You know that this is land that
• 19:41
  is, like you said, you know, some of the oldest on earth,
• 19:46
  billions with AB of years old. And one of the things that this
• 19:52
  whole show was about people is, is, is really getting to to hear
• 19:57
  bright spirits, thoughts and heart behind his inspiration of
• 20:01
  creation of art, right and, and, and where he gets this
• 20:05
  inspiration from. So, you know, you make drums,
• 20:10
  you make rattles, you make instruments that can help with
• 20:14
  spiritual practices of, of a you know, of the musician or rhythm.
• 20:18
  Type things you also do beautiful jewelry and other
• 20:23
  accessories and things that that people can wear to connect
• 20:27
  spiritually or to connect with their ancestry in that way.
• 20:30
  So I just wanted to start off that with, you know, the, the
• 20:35
  inspiration to, to, to do what you do because it's, it's so
• 20:38
  original. It's not like you're copying
• 20:40
  anything else, right? I was wondering if you could
• 20:43
  talk a bit about where so much of your inspiration comes from
• 20:48
  and and how it helps inform what the next piece is going to be or
• 20:53
  what the next item is going to be from your workshop.
• 20:59
  First and foremost, it just has to be here in the Blue Ridge
• 21:03
  Mountains of Appalachia. It's hard not to be inspired.
• 21:09
  As you just mentioned, you've spent some time here.
• 21:12
  Some of our other brothers have spent time here.
• 21:14
  It's hard to not be inspired when you come here and
• 21:18
  experience this place, the mountains, the trees, the
• 21:22
  waterfalls, it's incredible. And knowing how old it is, how
• 21:31
  ancient it is, all the life that's lived here, all the death
• 21:35
  that's happened here, all the recycling, it's just hard to not
• 21:44
  be inspired by the beauty of nature.
• 21:47
  When it comes to craft. I, I have to forgo any kind of
• 21:53
  credit and creativity or artistry to where I live.
• 22:01
  I'm blessed, absolutely fortunate to be able to be here
• 22:05
  and to be able to work here and craft from here.
• 22:09
  I can step outside the door right now, and even though it's
• 22:11
  dark outside, while we're doing this, I'm going to see the
• 22:15
  silhouette of the trees, the Pines.
• 22:18
  I'm going to see the moonlight up and the stars.
• 22:20
  And we're also fortunate enough to be in a little bit of a dark
• 22:24
  zone. So every once in a while, a
• 22:27
  little bit of that strip of the Milky Way.
• 22:28
  It's hard. It's so hard to just not be
• 22:32
  inspired, but you've got to give yourself to it.
• 22:39
  There are plenty of other places that you can see beauty and
• 22:41
  nature, but if you're not there for it, it's not going to sit.
• 22:47
  It's not going to. It's not going to settle with
• 22:49
  you. Yeah, But I've been able to be
• 22:53
  here long enough and find myself in this that I can be present
• 23:03
  for it or I try to be present for it.
• 23:05
  And that's what inspires my art, first and foremost, creating
• 23:12
  pieces. It's such an honour because
• 23:17
  you're afforded the opportunity to share in ways that many
• 23:22
  others can't. You can share in culture, you
• 23:28
  can share in history, you can share a piece of yourself, you
• 23:33
  can share a piece of time and what's happening in the world
• 23:37
  through art. And that's very important to me
• 23:40
  is to try to share as much as I can because it does inspire
• 23:44
  other people. And that's not a boast on
• 23:46
  myself, that's a boast on art. So if you've got a talent,
• 23:50
  whether it be music, painting, baking, cooking, get in that,
• 23:57
  get in it, love it, make it a passion and share it with the
• 24:01
  world. The world needs it.
• 24:03
  We need art. I'm so glad you said that it is.
• 24:09
  And there's different forms of art, like you mentioned a few of
• 24:11
  them, you know what I mean? And it's such a, it's such a
• 24:14
  subjective thing. You know, the one piece that
• 24:16
  speaks to someone may not speak to another, but it's, that's,
• 24:21
  that's the beauty of the diversity of what art means and,
• 24:24
  and how it, it, it's expression. And I'm glad that you mentioned
• 24:27
  what you said about being present with it, right?
• 24:29
  Giving it the space and being immersed in it and actually
• 24:34
  sitting with it because you are, you are there all the time, you
• 24:39
  know, so that, that inspiration, as you say, is, is, is
• 24:42
  constantly around you. But unless you're present with
• 24:46
  it, unless you're allowing it to, to, to absorb it, it could,
• 24:52
  it could just, it's, it's happening regardless, you know
• 24:56
  what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's happening
• 24:57
  whether you notice it or not. So to notice it and to give it
• 25:01
  that, give it that time and give it that space.
• 25:05
  It's a hard time to be an artist, not in the sense that
• 25:08
  people aren't buying art, but for your inspiration in that
• 25:12
  presence. There's a lot of distraction
• 25:15
  right now in the world, so it's very hard for many people.
• 25:22
  But if you think about the great times of art throughout history,
• 25:27
  you can look at it and you can see what was happening at that
• 25:30
  time. When you see Gothic
• 25:33
  architecture, things like that, you can tell the mood, you can
• 25:39
  feel it. You can look at their part in a
• 25:41
  picture, you can see those gargoyles and you can feel what
• 25:45
  was happening at that time. Just the same as the
• 25:47
  Renaissance, when paintings and sculpture became hyper
• 25:53
  realistic, you could feel how attentive and in tune how
• 25:58
  immersed people were in the world at the time.
• 26:02
  So you've got a dark time in art and you've got a very light time
• 26:05
  in art. And Gothic versus Renaissance,
• 26:10
  their names reflect that, yeah. I had a question too, now that
• 26:17
  I'm thinking about what we're saying here, you know, with the
• 26:21
  inspiration being there and being immersed in it and giving,
• 26:24
  you know, giving space for it and, and really just noticing
• 26:27
  it. You know, some people are
• 26:32
  afforded the opportunity to be artistic in whatever way that
• 26:38
  they feel inspired, whether it's through painting, whether it's
• 26:42
  through carving, whether it's through pyrography, whether it's
• 26:45
  through drum, you know, drum building, whether it's through
• 26:49
  audio and visual art such as, you know, content, right?
• 26:53
  That's a form of art as well, right?
• 26:55
  There's so many different ways that people can feel inspired to
• 26:57
  be artistic. And one of the things that at
• 27:01
  least I've experienced with, with my expression of art
• 27:04
  through podcasting and through content creation is this feeling
• 27:08
  of burnout. You know, and maybe it's due to
• 27:12
  the distractions in the world or the way that you're exposed to
• 27:15
  so many things that can take away or that can infiltrate and
• 27:19
  affect your mind, your heart. For, you know, what energy you
• 27:23
  would be putting into creating art is now being spent trying to
• 27:26
  manage these feelings of entropy or, you know, depression and all
• 27:33
  these various things. How does that, how does that fit
• 27:36
  into your process of creating art?
• 27:40
  Because it's a livelihood for you, One might say you can't
• 27:43
  afford to be burnt out because you have to create art in order
• 27:46
  to, you know, earn a living and stuff.
• 27:49
  So there's, there's, I would think at least hearing like
• 27:52
  that, like there's some sort of pressure put on one to
• 27:56
  constantly be in this creative state.
• 27:59
  What would you say to that? How does that fit into your
• 28:02
  creative process, artistic process, and how do you manage
• 28:04
  it if it becomes that way? I would say to maintain a
• 28:09
  curious mind, to find ways to constantly be inspired.
• 28:16
  Art has to be interesting, right?
• 28:18
  Because it's constantly evolving, constantly changing.
• 28:22
  So what's interesting Now to be interesting, and I'm going to
• 28:25
  quote the great Alan Watts, to be interesting, you have to be
• 28:31
  interested. You have to be curious.
• 28:36
  So when you start finding these things that you're interested
• 28:40
  in, that makes you an interesting person and will
• 28:45
  reflect in your art, be curious, learn, expand, grow.
• 28:54
  Take a chance at something new. I've recently just done that and
• 28:59
  stepping outside of my comfort zone.
• 29:02
  Most all of my art throughout drum building painting has been
• 29:08
  very bass. Bass level, going back to just
• 29:12
  primary blacks, Browns, maybe some oranges in my painting or
• 29:19
  drum building. But I stepped outside of that
• 29:23
  comfort zone and started working more in colors I felt called to
• 29:29
  and working with a personal piece.
• 29:32
  Several weeks ago, I answered that call and it was one of the
• 29:39
  most freeing feelings that I've ever felt.
• 29:41
  It was like being unshackled, like I've denied myself this all
• 29:45
  this time to expand my creativity through colour.
• 29:52
  And I've been blessed to be able to make several pieces now.
• 29:57
  They're very, very colorful. One paid homage to a very
• 30:03
  special place to me, Serpent Mound, The Great Serpent Mound,
• 30:08
  the largest earthen effigy just right across the Ohio River from
• 30:14
  where I'm at travelling N through Kentucky.
• 30:18
  But yeah, incredible, incredible place.
• 30:24
  You did another one recently too.
• 30:26
  You've worked in the, the, the colour blue a lot in the past,
• 30:31
  or maybe enough, I should say, maybe not a lot, but I've seen
• 30:33
  some of your pieces before that have blue dye, you know, as part
• 30:39
  of its art. And I love the, I love the, the,
• 30:41
  the boldness, the brightness, the IT really pops.
• 30:45
  You did one recently. I think it was sky dance or
• 30:49
  something like that. There was a drum that you did
• 30:52
  sky something. You know what I'm talking about.
• 30:54
  Yep. Yeah, that actually went home
• 30:59
  with an incredible lady this last weekend at Powwow.
• 31:03
  Oh. Nice, yeah.
• 31:08
  There's a fun thing that I like to do.
• 31:12
  Sometimes I'll hide hints or pieces or things in the art that
• 31:19
  I put on drums. When you look at it, it appears
• 31:24
  just as it is, but when it goes home with someone and they get
• 31:27
  to spend time with it, they'll start to find some of those
• 31:30
  small things. This one I wanted to keep more
• 31:33
  upfront and that I had a song in mind, a drum beat in mind.
• 31:39
  And so in a way that you have those sheets paint by numbers.
• 31:44
  It'll it'll give you the picture, but then it'll have the
• 31:47
  little numbers there and you paint according to those.
• 31:51
  I painted a drum beat in steps or in rhythm around the circle
• 31:56
  of the drum and that was fun. I've done a few of those, some a
• 32:02
  little more difficult, but getting to sit with that Lady
• 32:06
  for a little while over the weekend and that was special.
• 32:12
  Very much so, as a matter of fact, that that piece that we're
• 32:16
  talking about. So for those of you that are
• 32:18
  just listening to this on Spotify, you know that piece
• 32:21
  will have been shared on screen as an image.
• 32:25
  So for those folks of you on Patreon that have watched, you
• 32:27
  got to see it or you might have seen it shared on on bright
• 32:32
  spirits social media, because I know that's where I had I'd seen
• 32:35
  or you might you might have sent it to me.
• 32:37
  I don't remember where, but wherever it was like that, I saw
• 32:39
  it like that was the like we were talking about that drum and
• 32:45
  you know that that that kind of segwayed into inspiration for
• 32:50
  crafting and that's what kind of sparked this conversation to
• 32:54
  happen or for him to come on and talk about this.
• 32:56
  So it's great that we're talking about that specific piece and
• 32:59
  now that we know who would now that we know that it actually
• 33:03
  went home with someone and that you got a chance to sit with
• 33:07
  that person and I don't know, like it.
• 33:11
  It's really special to hear the the story as as you're
• 33:15
  expressing it now is like, you know, you had this, you had this
• 33:19
  inspiration, you had this moment in time to be inspired to create
• 33:23
  this piece. And then somebody else saw it
• 33:26
  and felt inspired themselves to acquire it and then spend time
• 33:32
  with it. So you spent time with it and
• 33:34
  inspiration and and felt a way about it.
• 33:35
  And now they get to hear its song and learn its song.
• 33:41
  Maybe Even so like as that as as we talked about this right and
• 33:48
  go ahead. It started even before then it
• 33:52
  was actually the last day of summer.
• 33:55
  I got out in the morning, spent some time in prayer, come back
• 33:59
  in. I'm preparing things for work
• 34:02
  that day. Drum skins get a little break,
• 34:06
  walk outside mid morning, look up and it's just this beautiful,
• 34:11
  beautiful, typical but beautiful blue sky with sparse white
• 34:18
  clouds and that shade of blue and then those white clouds
• 34:22
  together. That's when it kind of all
• 34:25
  connected the colour scheme at least anyway.
• 34:30
  And then that song, you know, almost saying goodbye to summer,
• 34:35
  but welcome to the next season. That summer song Drum felt
• 34:44
  really special and that paint took about 6 hours to do.
• 34:55
  Wow. I don't think a lot of people
• 34:58
  realize that, you know, when they see these pieces that
• 35:00
  you've produced and they're so impressed by the patterns, the
• 35:05
  colours. I mean, I'm sure that that
• 35:08
  probably the audience that that shares in your space to, to see
• 35:12
  these things has an appreciation for the, the time that goes into
• 35:20
  this, this stuff, this doesn't get printed out onto a surface
• 35:23
  and it's there within an hour or 15 minutes or whatever.
• 35:27
  Like this. This takes time.
• 35:29
  It takes time to sit with and it takes time to paint it in such
• 35:35
  an intricate way because you get down.
• 35:37
  Like, I love how you a lot of times your, your photos of your
• 35:40
  pieces are like macro lens kind of views of things.
• 35:45
  You know what I mean? Like it's zoomed in to, to see
• 35:48
  the intricacy of the detail, the dot work, the, you know, the,
• 35:53
  the, the, the, the consistency of the patterns and what not How
• 35:58
  it's how it's, you know, this is hand done, this is hand painted.
• 36:00
  It's not like it's printed out by a, by a machine.
• 36:03
  So there's no robotics involved. It's, it's the steadiness of
• 36:07
  your hand and, and the, and just be able to appreciate all of
• 36:11
  that. I, I, I, I, I just got to say
• 36:13
  it's, it's, it's something else. And I know if anybody hasn't
• 36:16
  taken the time to appreciate that, please do so because it,
• 36:21
  it's, it's impressive to say the very least.
• 36:25
  And it's a as much as I hate to say it, but we, we have to be
• 36:31
  honest with each other. It's a dying way.
• 36:34
  It's very, very important now to get something person to person.
• 36:43
  Well, like that, you know. In crafting anymore,
• 36:47
  everything's gone to manufacturing or assembly line.
• 36:51
  It's produced. It's going to be like Alibaba or
• 36:59
  so there's things where it's just.
• 37:03
  Yeah, it's, it's mass produced. There's no heart, there's no
• 37:05
  spirit in it there. There's, there's no
• 37:08
  consideration for the craft itself.
• 37:10
  It's just what can we turn around quickly to to to make a
• 37:16
  buck? In a big number.
• 37:18
  Yeah. Yeah, and I've played some of
• 37:21
  those drums. I've had people come up at
• 37:25
  events or festivals and say, hey, I got this thing offline.
• 37:30
  I can't remember the website, but it shipped from somewhere
• 37:35
  overseas and it'll sound good, it'll play good, it's well made,
• 37:43
  but it's not person to person. You're getting something off of
• 37:49
  a machine that a person has shipped to you, and it's got its
• 37:56
  pros and cons just like anything else.
• 38:00
  When they're able to manufacture things, they're able to offer
• 38:03
  them at a lower price or a lower cost.
• 38:08
  And I understand that times are tough for just about everybody
• 38:13
  right now, so I don't want anyone to feel bad or feel shame
• 38:24
  for getting one of those pieces. Or if you feel like something
• 38:28
  calls to you or speaks to you, go for it, even if it is one of
• 38:32
  those things, especially if you're just starting out.
• 38:36
  If this is like, I want to, I want to test the waters.
• 38:40
  I want a drum, but I'm not ready to invest that kind of money for
• 38:45
  a drum. Let me get one of these others
• 38:47
  and see if it's something that speaks with me or vibes with me.
• 38:52
  Yeah, go. Yeah, true.
• 38:58
  You know, I mean, it's always interesting for me to think
• 39:03
  about like why would somebody do that?
• 39:07
  Or why would somebody go the the distance to get a drum, like a
• 39:14
  drum specifically. OK, let's talk about that.
• 39:17
  Like hand drums of various sizes and and styles.
• 39:24
  I think it's from for for for most people.
• 39:26
  I think it's more than just a a novelty.
• 39:31
  They're they're they're they're looking at this item with the
• 39:35
  heart or with the purpose of wanting to connect with its
• 39:39
  song, with its voice, with its rhythm.
• 39:42
  There there's something primal within.
• 39:45
  I think most people that want to get something like this, so
• 39:50
  like, what's the song that you're going to get out of
• 39:52
  something that, I don't know, didn't have the, the attention
• 39:58
  or didn't have the, the time and the effort and the energy put
• 40:02
  into it? It's, it's, it's almost like,
• 40:05
  you know, maybe not the same thing, but I think of like, OK,
• 40:10
  I could listen to a song on ACD or stream it on a service or
• 40:15
  listen to it on a radio and it's going to sound good.
• 40:17
  It's going to sound pretty good. But it's going to sound totally
• 40:21
  different when I go and I see that song being performed live
• 40:25
  in front of me, right? There's a connection that
• 40:29
  happens, you know, so in a different sort of way, like
• 40:34
  when, when, when you have these artisans, these craftspeople who
• 40:38
  are putting their energy, their their inspiration into these
• 40:42
  pieces and then it's being transferred from them to you.
• 40:46
  I in a way I, I would almost venture to say like the song is
• 40:50
  much more vibrant or there's much more to the song.
• 40:57
  I don't know, like what do you think about that?
• 40:58
  Like, you know, this is just coming to me right now to
• 41:01
  express this way. So I don't know, like what,
• 41:03
  what, what do you think about? That I agree, especially when
• 41:08
  you're talking about natural materials versus a synthetic
• 41:11
  drum. There's so much more that goes
• 41:18
  into it and into your spirit and into your mind.
• 41:20
  You're you're tapping into a connection with early humanity
• 41:27
  and it's one of the oldest instruments in the world, the
• 41:30
  drum. You're tapping into a time and
• 41:33
  place that has all that been forgotten in that early, early
• 41:41
  time of percussion. There's not a popular following
• 41:48
  of this theory, but it's one that I enjoy quite a bit.
• 41:55
  When you think back to our time in early, early existence with
• 42:03
  some of the big predators that existed at the time, when dark
• 42:11
  came and it was time to huddle up, it was surviving.
• 42:18
  We got fire, so then we had light.
• 42:20
  We could keep ourselves safe with that.
• 42:24
  But then we realized we could be loud, we could make noise, we
• 42:29
  could be big and scare those predators off to be safe at
• 42:32
  night, to keep our children safe at night.
• 42:35
  And even now, still today, one of the most common pieces of
• 42:38
  advice if you encounter a black bear.
• 42:42
  Black bear. I'm not talking about Grizzlies,
• 42:44
  Browns, Polish just for liability reasons.
• 42:51
  But. All the pieces of advice you'll
• 42:53
  get when encountering a black bear is to be loud, make
• 42:56
  yourself big. Show it that it you're a force
• 43:01
  to be reckoned with, you know you're going to put up a fight.
• 43:05
  More often than not, the black bear will go on about its
• 43:08
  business in another direction. Yeah, so early humans, they
• 43:13
  learned that. Be big, be loud.
• 43:17
  And I think that was the birth of drums, surely.
• 43:24
  But. It began with banging sticks
• 43:29
  together, rocks together, but then they found ways to be
• 43:33
  louder and be safer. And so now, still, we honor that
• 43:39
  tradition, sitting around a campfire at night playing drums.
• 43:45
  And it keeps the predators that way.
• 43:47
  It keeps us safe. Yeah, those songs, do they
• 43:55
  resonate for different reasons. That's like, you know, sometimes
• 43:59
  we when we're feeling a certain way, we want to put on a certain
• 44:03
  song if we're feeling kind of nostalgic.
• 44:07
  You know, we put on certain music if we're feeling like,
• 44:10
  man, I just want to, I want to feel energized.
• 44:12
  You know, I put on some other music, I'm feeling a little bit
• 44:15
  mournful or I'm feeling a bit melancholy, right?
• 44:18
  Even those, there are songs for that too, that speak to our
• 44:22
  spirit, right? The different frequencies,
• 44:26
  different rhythms, different melodies accomplished different
• 44:31
  things. And so too with the drum, you
• 44:32
  know, because there are, there are war drums, there are drums
• 44:35
  beats of the drum skin that can, that can revive and, and bring,
• 44:40
  you know, ferocity up in a person.
• 44:42
  And then there's drum beats that are for mourning and there are
• 44:48
  drum beats for joy. And there are drum beats for all
• 44:53
  sorts of things. You know what I mean?
• 44:55
  Like you say, scaring predators away or keeping us safe, but
• 44:58
  then comforting us as well. Certain certain rhythms echo our
• 45:05
  own heart beats, you know what I mean?
• 45:08
  So it's like we have this example of the drum, which are
• 45:12
  by, you know, by and large skin. It's it's skin from animals.
• 45:16
  It's their hide. It's, it's, it's part of them
• 45:19
  that was once alive. And then that song is
• 45:24
  transferred to in the drum, right?
• 45:27
  So their heartbeat becomes our heartbeat.
• 45:29
  We share in that sort of way. I don't know.
• 45:31
  These are the types of things that I think about with with the
• 45:33
  drum, Like it's there, there's, it's, it's such a, a, a
• 45:36
  spectrum, if you will. Yeah, and there's a specific
• 45:39
  angle that's caught up. They're calling it entrainment
• 45:44
  and it tracks. It really does.
• 45:49
  Probably the most relevant modern example would be marching
• 45:54
  drum. You see, I was here is all
• 45:57
  around the world. Use a drum still to keep step in
• 46:01
  March. It's been used throughout
• 46:04
  history because it's not just that you're stepping with the
• 46:08
  beat of the drum, but your brain is telling you to step with the
• 46:11
  beat of the drum. Yeah.
• 46:14
  So you're hearing that beat. There's more happening inside
• 46:19
  than just you hearing it or feeling like padding along.
• 46:24
  You're almost called to do it. Yeah.
• 46:29
  It it beckons you to follow. Yeah, to kind of like get in
• 46:34
  time with it, almost like the frequency, the pattern and
• 46:39
  different patterns call for different things because like,
• 46:42
  here we go, right. We, you just came back from,
• 46:45
  from, from powwow, a lot of drumming, a lot of songs being
• 46:49
  sung, a lot of traditional dances being performed and, and
• 46:52
  different, you know, of course that, that, that, I mean,
• 46:58
  anybody can look up online, you know, powwow drums.
• 47:01
  And there's that there's, you know, a bunch of guys and gals
• 47:03
  sitting around that big canister, that big drum in the
• 47:06
  middle, right? And they're all, they're all at
• 47:08
  the same beat. They're all performing the same
• 47:11
  rhythm. And it's for a certain reason.
• 47:15
  And then you you look at certain traditional medicine ceremonies
• 47:22
  like the peyote drum, the water drum, that's a whole different
• 47:27
  frequency, that's a whole different pattern, a whole
• 47:29
  different rhythm. It's a bit more.
• 47:32
  High energy shamanic drumming. Or static drumming, yeah.
• 47:39
  Where it's right around 5 Hertz. Mm hmm.
• 47:46
  Yeah, that actually changes your brain waves from your normal
• 47:51
  typical lake and consciousness to that of a deep sleep.
• 47:59
  Yeah, and, and, and don't or or aren't certain skins or certain
• 48:05
  or or I'm asking do certain skins of animals.
• 48:09
  So like I know you've worked in different ones, you've worked in
• 48:12
  bison, you've worked with elk, you've worked with horse, deer,
• 48:15
  cattle. Do do certain animal skins.
• 48:19
  Is it the skin that has different like depths of, of, of
• 48:27
  frequency or, or sound, You know, they, they sound more like
• 48:30
  a higher pitch than, than a deeper one?
• 48:34
  Or is it the frame of the drum and how it's stretched?
• 48:37
  Like what's, what's, what does all that mean?
• 48:39
  And, and how does all that change the, the pitch and the
• 48:42
  sound of the drum? Is it the animal skin or is it
• 48:44
  how it's stretched and how it's worked?
• 48:47
  It's all of it and I hate that answer because it sounds so
• 48:50
  generic but there there really is a difference and density.
• 48:56
  Some skins can be stretched further and harder and thinner.
• 49:03
  A lot depends on the processing when working it down to a
• 49:06
  rawhide form to make a drum head or make a drum round.
• 49:13
  Animal skins like goat, deer, you can get a big, big drum out
• 49:19
  of, but they're going to be much, much higher pitched.
• 49:23
  But then you've got animals or relations like the bison, the
• 49:29
  moose, who are going to have a denser dermis where you're not
• 49:35
  going to work that down the same.
• 49:37
  It's going to have a deeper tone no matter how hard or how high
• 49:41
  you stretch it. What has been one of your
• 49:49
  favorite skins to work with and why?
• 49:54
  Hands down, horse, just because the tradition cultures around
• 50:01
  the world have utilized this relation that we have to do so
• 50:06
  much. Everybody says that dog is man's
• 50:08
  best friend, but horse has done more for humankind than the dog
• 50:14
  ever will. The dog alerts us when there's
• 50:17
  danger. There's something you know going
• 50:20
  on outside, let's you know what's up.
• 50:22
  They hang around with you. But the horse, they've pulled
• 50:26
  our plows, they've pulled our boats up canals.
• 50:30
  They've served in the military just so, so much.
• 50:36
  Our connection with the horse. And when you go back to shamanic
• 50:40
  tradition, when it comes to travel faster, travel more
• 50:46
  efficient, travel on horseback, we're going to get point A to
• 50:50
  point BA whole lot quicker, a whole lot easier than we are on
• 50:54
  our own 2 feet. Oh yeah.
• 50:57
  So it dials into that and then you've got a ton of reference to
• 51:04
  it as well. Odin slept near that shamanic
• 51:10
  journey and that connection with the horse.
• 51:14
  So yeah, hands down. And it's right.
• 51:17
  There's a. Range too.
• 51:23
  It's what? In a good mid range, it's, it's
• 51:26
  in between that goat and deer and then like the moose and
• 51:30
  bison. So it's a, it's a good middle
• 51:32
  ground. And again, the tradition and the
• 51:35
  history. Yeah, it's funny that you
• 51:40
  mentioned, you know, the horse I'll just I'll put on camera for
• 51:44
  folks because it's always in the background.
• 51:45
  But not a lot of get, not not not a lot of people get a chance
• 51:48
  to see this up close unless they're in person with me or
• 51:52
  unless I have it on a video or something.
• 51:54
  But this is this piece right here is over 5 years old.
• 51:59
  It came to me from the Olivetir from, from Josh here in 2020 at
• 52:04
  the beginning of 2020. So it's almost 6 full years old.
• 52:08
  But this is a bison skin, 12 inch.
• 52:11
  It's on a Birch frame. I don't know if anybody can.
• 52:15
  I don't know. It'll probably not come through
• 52:17
  the microphone, but you'll not you'll notice that there is a
• 52:21
  repeating Aquas room. There looks like the letter M
• 52:27
  with with Othella above it. But a was aquas is it means
• 52:32
  horse. And so for in the Germanic
• 52:35
  traditions and in the Germanic custom, Scandinavian, Norse,
• 52:38
  whatever, which are Germanic peoples, right, the horse is
• 52:44
  sacred Horse meat was was a part of bloat.
• 52:53
  You know, horses, like you say, before they, they, they had so
• 52:56
  much to do, whether it was agriculturally warfare or
• 53:03
  travel, you know what I mean, recreation.
• 53:07
  They're, they're such, they're such a diverse resource and, and
• 53:10
  their connection to, to mankind. So it was right, the
• 53:14
  relationship between horse and rider and, and, and that, that,
• 53:18
  that shared effort, moving towards a collective shared
• 53:22
  goal, that sort of a thing. There's a big, big presence.
• 53:28
  The horse is is is big medicine, right?
• 53:30
  It's strong medicine. It's it's big time in in.
• 53:33
  Anybody watching, if you're interested in that connection
• 53:37
  with the horse, there's a great, great piece of literature out
• 53:42
  titled A Piece of Horse Liver. Yes.
• 53:46
  That has very much to do with Icelandic mysticism.
• 53:49
  Magic, the ruins. Guldra staffer.
• 53:54
  Great piece of work. Yeah, I might put a link down
• 53:59
  there for people to find because I can't remember the author if
• 54:02
  it's Enright or if it's Pollington.
• 54:07
  I don't. Remember the Scandinavian names?
• 54:10
  Yeah. I'll just recall it's done by a
• 54:15
  doctor. And it's, and it's.
• 54:18
  It might be one of those pieces too, that if you're lucky enough
• 54:20
  to find it, you're probably going to spend an exuberant
• 54:24
  amount of money because some of these publications, some of
• 54:26
  these pieces of literature that are so well respected in the
• 54:30
  heathen space for, for learning and stuff, they're rare.
• 54:34
  And then when you find them, you know you're going to drop a, a
• 54:37
  good bit. You know, you might have to take
• 54:39
  a small loan out sometimes to, to get a copy of it if you're
• 54:42
  lucky. But yeah, a piece of horse liver
• 54:44
  is a great a great. It's a highly recommended
• 54:49
  reading in the in the heathen and and Pagan spaces.
• 54:56
  But yeah, these these, you know, the title of this episode was
• 54:59
  song in the skin. And Josh, I was going to, you
• 55:05
  know, I wanted to talk. We we've shared in some song
• 55:08
  with with skins. You know, we, we've been in drum
• 55:11
  circle together with other men. We've, you know, you've, you,
• 55:16
  you created this drum that I just showed everybody and then I
• 55:19
  brought it back to you the same year or within a year, I think
• 55:23
  it was. It was within a year after you
• 55:27
  made it, it came back to you, which at the time was kind of a
• 55:32
  rare thing. You know, usually I remember at
• 55:35
  the time you were like, well, when they go out, when they go
• 55:37
  home to their respective places, I don't ever really get to see
• 55:41
  him again, obviously, because they're at their, their forever
• 55:45
  homes. So in that moment when you got
• 55:48
  the chance to, you know, see that piece and, and since then
• 55:53
  you've seen it multiple times because it's always come back
• 55:55
  home. It's always come back to its
• 55:57
  place of origin. Every year that I've that I've
• 55:59
  come back to, to your place there, you know, it's for, for,
• 56:04
  for something like it's, it's come with me.
• 56:06
  So you've gotten kind of the chance to be along on its
• 56:10
  journey as well. How has that, how has that
• 56:14
  spoken to your spirit? How has that spoken to you in in
• 56:17
  the creative process of building things that go to people and it
• 56:23
  speaks to them in a way. And then sometimes you get the
• 56:26
  chance like now and in in this instance, to be reunited with
• 56:31
  that, with that spirit and get cut it get a chance to hear it's
• 56:34
  song in person. It's incredible and it's
• 56:39
  humbling. It's it's like meeting an old
• 56:42
  friend. I spend so much time with each
• 56:46
  one of these drums through the process, getting the rawhide
• 56:52
  down, the stretching, the building of the drum itself, and
• 56:56
  then the artwork. There's so much time that goes
• 57:00
  in that's spent with this piece that it's like a friend, but
• 57:06
  it's not mine, it's not my friend.
• 57:11
  It's a friend for the world and it has a friend to make
• 57:15
  somewhere else. And so I have to respect that.
• 57:18
  But then the opportunity presents itself that one of
• 57:22
  those come back into contact. It's like seeing an old friend.
• 57:27
  I remember you. We had a great time, a very
• 57:32
  special time together. And I'm glad to see you're doing
• 57:36
  well. And I'm doing well too.
• 57:38
  And one of my favorite things, especially if I can get art on a
• 57:45
  drum, is to see how that art comes back.
• 57:50
  And when I got to see yours come back for the first time, I could
• 57:53
  see that it was well played. We even did some touch up work,
• 57:57
  I think that night. Yeah, it happened a lot.
• 58:03
  It tells me that it's living its life as intended versus just
• 58:09
  being stuck in a corner or stuck up on a wall.
• 58:13
  It's living that means the most. And I got to say too real quick,
• 58:21
  like, you know, this piece is almost six years old.
• 58:25
  So for anybody that is listening or watching this, this episode
• 58:29
  that has a piece that that he's made, you already know the
• 58:32
  craftsmanship and the durability of the the piece.
• 58:37
  There are there are definitely some parts of the paint job
• 58:41
  right, that are a little bit worn, but the lines are still
• 58:46
  clear. Like it's, it's not you.
• 58:48
  You can still see the pattern. The skin is still in good shape,
• 58:53
  The wood is still in good shape. The sinew and the leather
• 58:57
  bindings and all that are like, it's, it's still in good shape.
• 59:02
  The beater has some like, I think the beater was one of the
• 59:05
  things that we ended up touching up a little bit at one point.
• 59:09
  The handle, some of the, some of the sinew in which at which time
• 59:13
  I, I think I've, I've replaced it with some just some actual
• 59:15
  like goat leather around the handle.
• 59:18
  But like the horse tail tassel is still in good shape a little
• 59:24
  bit around the beater. There's some sinew that I, I
• 59:27
  need to, to touch back up on a bit, but almost six years of
• 59:31
  regular use. Like if this is not a, this
• 59:34
  isn't a, what do you call it? It's it's not a, it's not a
• 59:39
  display piece, it's not a, it's not a relic to just look at this
• 59:42
  gets work done with, you know what I mean?
• 59:44
  Like this, this this drum has been in some very meaningful
• 59:51
  moments in my life and in others people's other people's lives
• 59:55
  where it's song has been sung and it's caught the attention of
• 1:00:01
  the scene and the unseen. And I know we're getting kind of
• 1:00:06
  like into it a little bit now with with time.
• 1:00:08
  So I don't want to disrespect your time Josh too much.
• 1:00:11
  But when it comes to the song, right, and, and how that song is
• 1:00:16
  heard and, and, and stuff we're we're talking about.
• 1:00:21
  Reaching presence where we were talking about reaching those
• 1:00:28
  that again are are are both seen and unseen.
• 1:00:31
  Can you, can you talk a little bit or do you have like an
• 1:00:34
  experience wherein you've shared, whether it's
• 1:00:41
  individually or, or collectively with others, when the song of a
• 1:00:45
  drum has caught the attention of the unseen, you know, because
• 1:00:52
  the sound, we hear it, we, we, we feel the vibration, we hear
• 1:00:55
  the sound and it speaks to us in many ways.
• 1:00:58
  But when it, when it reaches the, the, the, the attention,
• 1:01:02
  when it, when it catches the attention of the, of those who
• 1:01:04
  are unseen, that's a special thing.
• 1:01:07
  And I was wondering if you have any such experience or example
• 1:01:12
  that you would be willing to share here now along those
• 1:01:17
  lines? Absolutely, and I hate that this
• 1:01:22
  is going to sound cliche, but every time when I drum or play,
• 1:01:32
  I'm not just doing it for myself or for any people that are
• 1:01:36
  present, but I'm doing it for that spirit, that unseen.
• 1:01:40
  And to answer your question more directly, there are times that
• 1:01:45
  have stuck out. I'll be playing a drum and there
• 1:01:49
  are videos that I've shared and times that I've recorded when
• 1:01:53
  I'll be drumming. And then there's a Raven or the
• 1:01:57
  crows come, or you hear some of that spirit land, spirit, some
• 1:02:07
  of that presence almost in a way acknowledging or appreciating
• 1:02:13
  you being in touch and in tune and carrying on tradition, as I
• 1:02:18
  like to think of it. Yeah.
• 1:02:25
  I've had those too. I've had those, those moments of
• 1:02:30
  like a like a softer, gentler acknowledgement, right?
• 1:02:34
  We see you. We, we're here with you.
• 1:02:38
  We're even going to kind of like in a way participate, you know,
• 1:02:44
  like they, they become part of that song.
• 1:02:49
  I've also had a time or, or, or an experience where I felt like
• 1:02:56
  the song, the drum, the, the, the thing that was, you know,
• 1:03:00
  happening was like an, I don't want to say an alarm, but it
• 1:03:05
  was, it was, it was catching the attention of an entity or
• 1:03:13
  entities that were not familiar with that song and it, and it
• 1:03:18
  raised an alarm for them and it became almost like a very
• 1:03:25
  ominous presence. You know what I mean?
• 1:03:29
  Like they were, I wouldn't necessarily challenging, but
• 1:03:31
  like, what is this? Who are you?
• 1:03:35
  What is this sound right? Like what is this energy?
• 1:03:37
  What is this song that's being sung here?
• 1:03:41
  You know what I mean? Yeah, like a, like a yeah.
• 1:03:46
  Like we, we, we recognize you. We, we, we, we acknowledge you.
• 1:03:50
  We don't necessarily recognize you or we don't recognize this
• 1:03:53
  song, but we know that this is kind of in our space.
• 1:03:57
  This is our realm of things. So we're just going to kind of
• 1:04:00
  be on like the on the guard, you know, on the, on the, on, on the
• 1:04:07
  lookout sort of thing. It was very ominous, really
• 1:04:12
  strong, powerful, kind of a energy and it and it, and it, I,
• 1:04:19
  I would, I would have to say, like, if I, if I was to sit here
• 1:04:22
  and say that that that experience for me at that
• 1:04:25
  particular time didn't scare me, If I, you know, I, I, I would be
• 1:04:29
  lying. I was, I was kind of afraid, you
• 1:04:33
  know what I mean? Like it scared me.
• 1:04:34
  I, I, I, I knew that I was in the presence or, or, or around
• 1:04:40
  the unseen forces that maybe I wasn't ready to face, but I
• 1:04:47
  drummed up that sound. I, I brought that energy to the
• 1:04:50
  space and it was, well, now you're here.
• 1:04:52
  What are you going to do about it?
• 1:04:55
  You know, so it's like, it's, it's an interesting thing for me
• 1:05:00
  to think of this, this idea of song in the skin, right?
• 1:05:03
  Like some songs are are they're dark, you know what I mean?
• 1:05:09
  Like it's they're not just always pleasant happy songs,
• 1:05:14
  sometimes they are deep and somber in a way.
• 1:05:25
  There are a ton of traditions and cultures that have specific
• 1:05:30
  drums and songs for mourning. Some are very somber, some are
• 1:05:37
  deep and dark and sorrowful, but then some are very cheerful in
• 1:05:43
  that idea of celebration of life or congratulating a person for
• 1:05:48
  having completed this one and moved into the next one.
• 1:05:54
  So it just it really varies tradition to tradition and
• 1:06:00
  person to person even. Now I was wondering too, as we
• 1:06:06
  wrap, as we get close to wrapping things up with this,
• 1:06:09
  when it comes to tradition, right, drum building and the use
• 1:06:13
  of the drum in spirituality. It is a shared tradition.
• 1:06:20
  It's, it's, it's not necessarily isolated to one specific
• 1:06:23
  tradition, but each tradition has their own way or each
• 1:06:26
  culture has their own way. If you look at the Slavic or
• 1:06:32
  maybe even Baltic shamans, right like the the the spirit of wolf
• 1:06:39
  type drumming right like that is a very specific drum healing a
• 1:06:45
  drum ceremony. The Native American Indian drum
• 1:06:49
  circles and and in drum traditions in the various tribal
• 1:06:53
  traditions is is unique. The Sami in in in Northern
• 1:06:58
  Europe like like those have their own traditions.
• 1:07:04
  What what would you say to anyone who is coming into a drum
• 1:07:12
  like they they they want to experience something from the
• 1:07:16
  drum, but yet they don't necessarily have or even know
• 1:07:21
  where that interest or where that desire to connect with this
• 1:07:26
  coming from. They haven't maybe connected
• 1:07:28
  with source or the the ancestral source or or anything that that
• 1:07:33
  speaks to them that way. Would you, would you offer them
• 1:07:36
  any sort of counsel? Would you offer them any sort of
• 1:07:38
  suggestion to better connect with the drum to answer that
• 1:07:45
  call or that connection that they're feeling?
• 1:07:49
  Yeah, I would say be yourself, be genuine and play from the
• 1:07:55
  heart. It doesn't matter if you're
• 1:07:57
  sitting in front of a hand drum or a round drum or a shell drum
• 1:08:03
  or a jembe, if you're wanting to connect with the piece that
• 1:08:07
  you've acquired, that you're going to spend time with and
• 1:08:12
  share with, just be open, be honest, be genuine, play from
• 1:08:15
  the heart and let that relationship develop from there.
• 1:08:20
  Don't try to guide it. Don't feel guided by it.
• 1:08:26
  You know, some people will pick up some bongos and think you've
• 1:08:28
  got to make that pattern, You've got to make that rhythm that you
• 1:08:32
  hear on a bongo drum. But just let it be.
• 1:08:37
  Introduce yourself and develop that relationship if you're
• 1:08:42
  really going to connect with that piece.
• 1:08:44
  And then let the rest come in time.
• 1:08:45
  Organic, natural. Let spirit flow.
• 1:08:49
  Let love flow. Yeah, that's a universal
• 1:08:56
  language, right, brother? That's the drum, too.
• 1:08:59
  It's universal, cross country, cross continental cross
• 1:09:03
  cultural. There are drums on every piece
• 1:09:06
  of land that exists on this planet.
• 1:09:11
  It's a human tradition. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:16
  And we're all connected in that way, right?
• 1:09:18
  We share the same mother and that heartbeat, heartbeat to
• 1:09:23
  heartbeat, right from echoes to embers to song and the skin and,
• 1:09:29
  and so many poetic ways that you could probably put it.
• 1:09:34
  It's a, it's a universal rhythm. It's a universal language.
• 1:09:37
  It's a universal connection. So just find that with you, you
• 1:09:42
  know, be genuine as he said that.
• 1:09:43
  I love that. Be genuine about it.
• 1:09:48
  We all speak different languages.
• 1:09:50
  There are thousands of different languages, but when I hear a
• 1:09:54
  drum beat and you hear a drum beat, it doesn't matter if I
• 1:09:58
  speak Portuguese and you speak Chinese, we're hearing that drum
• 1:10:02
  beat and we're feeling what's being communicated, whether it
• 1:10:07
  be high tempo or low and somber. It's a communication and it's
• 1:10:13
  beautiful. It transcends language spoken
• 1:10:20
  language. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful.
• 1:10:25
  I had a random kind of like fun question that I wanted to ask
• 1:10:29
  you as we wrap this up. And that was that if you had
• 1:10:35
  accessibility to any sort of skin from an animal that is
• 1:10:40
  living or not extinct, like if, if an animal who, who doesn't
• 1:10:45
  walk this earth anymore or whatever.
• 1:10:48
  You've worked in various types of animal skins and, and you
• 1:10:52
  talked a little bit earlier about how you love working with
• 1:10:54
  the horse and, and, and how much of A joy that is.
• 1:10:58
  But if you could, you know, think of like any sort of like
• 1:11:00
  prehistoric or non existent animal or anything that you
• 1:11:04
  maybe haven't worked in that could still exist.
• 1:11:07
  Is there, is there a skin, is there an animal spirit that you
• 1:11:11
  would like to if you had the chance to work with, whether
• 1:11:14
  extinct or not, what would that? What would that animal be for
• 1:11:19
  you? Although I couldn't do it
• 1:11:28
  personally, that animal or being would be myself.
• 1:11:38
  Might throw some people off, but.
• 1:11:40
  Oh, Dang. OK.
• 1:11:41
  All right. In my passing.
• 1:11:45
  Is there are there Is that a thing?
• 1:11:48
  Has that never happened? I'll go on in spirit of course,
• 1:11:51
  but what I leave in inheritance in my physical I think would
• 1:12:01
  make an OK drum. That's heavy duty brother.
• 1:12:10
  Do do do, do you know of anything?
• 1:12:12
  Like has that ever happened? Like do we know of any human
• 1:12:17
  skin drums that exist? There are a few out there.
• 1:12:23
  They're not things that are accessible, open for purchase.
• 1:12:28
  No, I wouldn't say so. They exist.
• 1:12:30
  I wouldn't say so. Wow, man, that that's
• 1:12:36
  incredible. I I can't even like first of
• 1:12:38
  all, I not that I, because I came up with this question off
• 1:12:42
  the cuff, like I was just shooting from the hip with this.
• 1:12:45
  I'm like, maybe he'll say something like, you know, woolly
• 1:12:47
  mammoth or some kind of, you know, prehistoric animal that's
• 1:12:49
  indigenous to the North American continent.
• 1:12:51
  But whatever, man, you totally, you threw a curveball with that
• 1:12:57
  one brother. I was not expecting that
• 1:12:58
  response. That's cool though.
• 1:13:03
  Everything else leaves its physical being to be inherited.
• 1:13:09
  The hives that I use, yeah. Make drums, The skins, the furs,
• 1:13:15
  all of the things that I work with, Bones, teeth, antlers.
• 1:13:22
  They're an inheritance and should be respected just the
• 1:13:26
  same as heirlooms that we receive from our own family in
• 1:13:29
  their passing, whether it be handing down jewelry or That's
• 1:13:36
  our world, but we're also part of this world where everything
• 1:13:40
  else lives. And so when they go on to the
• 1:13:44
  spirit world, they leave that. That's their only inheritance.
• 1:13:49
  It's their physical being. And I do everything within my
• 1:13:55
  ability to honour that. So I hope one day, if law
• 1:14:03
  allows, that I might be honoured the same.
• 1:14:10
  I'll go on to the spirit world, but my inheritance and what I
• 1:14:15
  leave behind physically, outside of the idea of possessions, may
• 1:14:22
  live on. Oh man, thank you for that.
• 1:14:28
  Thank you for that answer. That was I know that came from
• 1:14:30
  your heart and that came from a place of a genuine source.
• 1:14:33
  And thank you for that. And thank you for your time
• 1:14:37
  today and and speaking with us about what you do and why you do
• 1:14:43
  it, how you do it, the way that people can connect with you
• 1:14:50
  through what you do. Again, it's all down in the
• 1:14:53
  description, folks. You know, if you're watching
• 1:14:55
  this, you know what's down there.
• 1:14:56
  But for those listening, if you have a tear.com, it's it's going
• 1:14:59
  to be in the show notes. You know, you hear about it
• 1:15:03
  every episode, right? It's always at the beginning,
• 1:15:06
  you know, discover the beauty of mountain spirit.
• 1:15:09
  And this is where this is, this is, you're seeing it.
• 1:15:13
  If you haven't seen it before, you're seeing that beauty of
• 1:15:16
  mountain spirit here on screen today.
• 1:15:20
  So brother, I appreciate your time and appreciate your your
• 1:15:24
  space and your energy and your love for coming on here and
• 1:15:27
  talking about this stuff today. That means so much to you, means
• 1:15:30
  so much to me, means a lot to other people doing great work.
• 1:15:34
  So thank you for all that. Thank you for the opportunity to
• 1:15:38
  share. Any parting words or any last
• 1:15:44
  minute things that you'd like to say to people before we wrap it
• 1:15:46
  up? Sure.
• 1:15:50
  One of the most common questions I get when we're out and we're
• 1:15:54
  working events or festivals and I bring my drums out are how do
• 1:16:00
  you play a drum? How do you I, I feel like I
• 1:16:03
  can't play a drum. I don't know how to play a drum.
• 1:16:06
  People are so nervous, so reluctant because they think
• 1:16:09
  there's a certain way, but get that out of your head and play
• 1:16:14
  from your heart. I wonder if, you know, when
• 1:16:22
  people get to that point, right when they, they, they, they have
• 1:16:24
  those questions and then they get that piece.
• 1:16:27
  It's almost like that, that that apprehension or that nervousness
• 1:16:33
  is quelled. Like it, it goes away because
• 1:16:35
  now, now you've connected with this thing and it and it's it's,
• 1:16:38
  it's come to you as it's meant to come to you.
• 1:16:42
  You have to get acquainted with it.
• 1:16:44
  You have to become familiar. It's a new relationship, maybe
• 1:16:49
  in a way, right? And like he says, play, play
• 1:16:52
  from your heart. Just just be, just do it.
• 1:16:56
  It's it's there's no right. There's no wrong.
• 1:16:59
  Just do it, you know, have fun. And yeah, just feel it.
• 1:17:05
  It's like Nike, right? Just do it well, just just just
• 1:17:09
  feel it. Just play it.
• 1:17:12
  Just drum it. Just drum it.
• 1:17:15
  There you go. There it is.
• 1:17:16
  There's the tagline. Just drum it.
• 1:17:21
  Yeah, brother. It's so great to have you here,
• 1:17:22
  man. Thank you very much again for
• 1:17:24
  your time. We're going to wrap a bit after
• 1:17:26
  this, but for everybody that's been here listening and we're
• 1:17:29
  watching again, check everything out in the description or the
• 1:17:32
  show notes for how you can find Fialvatier on social media.
• 1:17:38
  But fialvatier.com is the website.
• 1:17:40
  So if you have something in mind, even if it's not something
• 1:17:44
  that's on the web shop, you know what I mean?
• 1:17:47
  You have a vision, you have an idea, you have something that
• 1:17:51
  you want to, to work with him on.
• 1:17:54
  He's great at that, by the way, great at that.
• 1:17:56
  Commission pieces. We've, we've done several of
• 1:17:58
  those. And I know you have to work with
• 1:18:00
  people to, to bring to life their vision, right?
• 1:18:04
  They have an idea, they have a thought, they have a something
• 1:18:07
  they want to manifest and, and you work with them on that.
• 1:18:10
  So definitely get in touch with them and support them in any way
• 1:18:15
  that you can. Thank you again for being here,
• 1:18:18
  brother. And for everybody else that's
• 1:18:21
  tuned in and watched, thank you for your support.
• 1:18:23
  Check out all the things that I do on various platforms.
• 1:18:26
  Support in any way that you can. If you're just listening to this
• 1:18:29
  and you want to be a part of the Patreon experience, it's just a
• 1:18:33
  $1.00 pledge. You can come and go as you
• 1:18:35
  please. You don't have to continue that,
• 1:18:38
  but if you do, it's appreciated. It's what helps with the
• 1:18:42
  productions of this show. So patreon.com/midgard musings,
• 1:18:46
  if you don't want to click on the link, but you can just find
• 1:18:48
  me, just Google me and you'll see it.
• 1:18:50
  So thank you all so much for your support.
• 1:18:52
  Thank you to my brother and long time friend and guest today,
• 1:18:56
  Josh Pennington. Bright Spirit, it's good to have
• 1:18:59
  you here. So thank you all so much for
• 1:19:01
  your support. Until we talk to each other
• 1:19:03
  again, may the gods continue to notice you, and may your
• 1:19:07
  ancestors smile upon you, and we'll see you in the next one.