Latest / The MOOD Podcast / Searching for Lost Color: Jake Paul White, E093

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Searching for Lost Color: Jake Paul White, E093 · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:00
  Matt Jacob: Welcome to the Mood Podcast, uncovering the art of conversation through the lens of photography and creativity, one frame at a time.
• 0:07
  Matt Jacob: I'm your host, matt Jacob.
• 0:09
  Matt Jacob: Thank you so much for joining me in this week's episode.
• 0:13
  Matt Jacob: My guest for this conversation is Jake Paul White, a British artist whose quiet, ethereal paintings are created using natural dyes and earth pigments like indigo clay and betel nut.
• 0:25
  Matt Jacob: His work blurs the line between abstraction and emotion, inviting us as viewers to slow down, feel deeply and reconnect with something often forgotten.
• 0:36
  Matt Jacob: In my chat with him, we explore what Jake calls his search for lost color, the philosophy behind using natural pigments and why stillness plays such a central role in both his work and his life.
• 0:49
  Matt Jacob: We also talk about the romance and struggle of the creative process, the emotional terrain of making art that doesn't need to explain itself, and how he sustains a living as a full-time painter without compromising the quiet integrity of his work.
• 1:05
  Matt Jacob: So now please slow down, listen, because here is Jake Paul White.
• 1:18
  Matt Jacob: Jake Paul White, welcome to the Moot Podcast.
• 1:20
  Matt Jacob: Nice to meet you.
• 1:21
  Matt Jacob: Nice to meet you too.
• 1:22
  Matt Jacob: We have mutual, mutual connections, but first time we met and um sat down across from each other and talking about well, what are we going to talk about.
• 1:31
  Matt Jacob: Let's um, let's just start with your background, I guess.
• 1:34
  Matt Jacob: Give us an idea of who you are and um what you do, but, more importantly, why you do it okay, yeah for sure.
• 1:40
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, well, I'm a painter.
• 1:41
  Jake Paul Smith: I've always have been a painter.
• 1:43
  Jake Paul Smith: I've always, always been a creative, and I'm one of them kids that really struggled at school and creativity was my savior.
• 1:51
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, it's something that I always came back to.
• 1:53
  Jake Paul Smith: It was the one class that I was actually good at.
• 1:55
  Jake Paul Smith: So at the time I always felt like it was my only choice and I was always very lucky to have this one thing that kind of anchored me at school, because I just struggled with all the other classes.
• 2:09
  Jake Paul Smith: So I went from school, I went to college, I went to university and paint was very much my, was my kind of guiding light with everything that I did.
• 2:18
  Jake Paul Smith: And you know, from university I found it just so difficult to to imagine myself being an artist.
• 2:28
  Jake Paul Smith: You know I was.
• 2:30
  Matt Jacob: What did you study at uni?
• 2:31
  Matt Jacob: Paint?
• 2:33
  Jake Paul Smith: Oh, okay, study painters.
• 2:33
  Jake Paul Smith: I went to Brighton university.
• 2:35
  Jake Paul Smith: I went to art university, absolutely loved it, like I.
• 2:38
  Jake Paul Smith: Just as soon as I got to college, it was just like such a weight off my shoulders.
• 2:43
  Jake Paul Smith: School was just so challenging.
• 2:45
  Jake Paul Smith: I just couldn't like that system just didn't work for me whatsoever.
• 2:48
  Jake Paul Smith: And as soon as I got to college I felt so free.
• 2:52
  Jake Paul Smith: I got to experiment, I got to play.
• 2:54
  Jake Paul Smith: I had the most amazing teacher I think still to this day, the teacher that created that biggest shift, you know, for me.
• 3:01
  Jake Paul Smith: And then got to university and you know my, it was always painting, fine art, creativity, but I never had the confidence to.
• 3:13
  Jake Paul Smith: I don't know how young, young people go into the art world.
• 3:18
  Jake Paul Smith: It's so revealing you know, so when I left university I moved into design, and design kind of gave me that support of being a creative but having a sense of guidance, a sense of like, um, business, uh, acumen.
• 3:33
  Jake Paul Smith: So you're, you're creating something with a end result, but with paint you don't really have naturally.
• 3:38
  Jake Paul Smith: You have an end result and you're creating it for yourself, um, so I went on a long journey of of design and then um eventually came to on my travels.
• 3:50
  Jake Paul Smith: Um came to find yoga and that was a big, big turning point for me.
• 3:57
  Jake Paul Smith: So everything else kind of faded away and fully immersed myself in in the world of, in the world of yoga, and kind of became my life At the same time of traveling the world and seeing new things.
• 4:10
  Jake Paul Smith: I became a teacher.
• 4:12
  Jake Paul Smith: I did a teacher training, became a full-time teacher and, yeah, I got to travel the world with that as well and moved into doing teacher trainings and so forth.
• 4:24
  Jake Paul Smith: I remember my first yoga class, my voice froze.
• 4:28
  Jake Paul Smith: I was such a shy, I lacked confidence and I never thought I would teach.
• 4:33
  Jake Paul Smith: Really I did the teacher training because it kind of came my way as a, as an opportunity, and I just kind of grabbed it.
• 4:39
  Jake Paul Smith: And yeah, I remember my voice froze and it was very embarrassing, but I think that moment was a moment.
• 4:46
  Jake Paul Smith: I was like, oh, this is something that I want to learn, maybe not even to teach yoga, but just to learn how to find that confidence and project my voice and and to teach.
• 4:55
  Jake Paul Smith: And you know, years after years, I, you know, I started doing small classes, larger classes, then I did small festivals, then I did large festivals, teacher trainings, workshops, retreats, traveled the world with that.
• 5:09
  Jake Paul Smith: So, even though I don't practice yoga as a kind of a complete practice these days, I think that was the biggest takeaway for me.
• 5:20
  Jake Paul Smith: It really allowed me to evolve as a, as you know, as a teacher, as a human, to have the confidence to, to share, which I'm always very grateful of.
• 5:29
  Jake Paul Smith: And then eventually I, you know, I was through them travels.
• 5:33
  Jake Paul Smith: I was coming to bali, where I am now, and, um, the design business was running in the background actually at the same time, and so I was.
• 5:43
  Jake Paul Smith: I was producing work predominantly for the yoga industry logos, websites, branding, all this kind of thing.
• 5:49
  Jake Paul Smith: So the two worlds very much collided and they helped each other.
• 5:52
  Jake Paul Smith: So I might get yoga work through my design, I might get design work from yoga, and it's kind of this continuous back and forth and I kind of rode that way for 10 years and I still have a design agency now.
• 6:04
  Jake Paul Smith: But a couple years ago painting came back into my life for a few avenues.
• 6:11
  Jake Paul Smith: One I had an opportunity to do ceramics and I went all in on that.
• 6:16
  Jake Paul Smith: I was doing that every day, eight hours a day at a ceramic studio and I guess that just like reignited my passion for the craft of showing up for fine art over and over again and also just doing something for the sake of it.
• 6:29
  Jake Paul Smith: It really didn't have an end result, I didn't need to sell them or anything like that, I just wanted to just work on a craft again.
• 6:36
  Jake Paul Smith: And there's something very beautiful working with clay, you know, and take something that was taken from the ground and, you know, develop this skill and this sensitivity to produce these shapes, if it be tableware or sculpture or whatever it may be.
• 6:50
  Jake Paul Smith: So that really like reignited a passion for me.
• 6:54
  Jake Paul Smith: And then I also got to do an indigo dyeing workshop.
• 6:58
  Jake Paul Smith: A friend invited me to come and that also was a moment of like just really reminded me of the, the alchemy you know of paint and these materials, and it was so beautiful to see.
• 7:15
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, you know, the indigo comes from a leaf, you know.
• 7:19
  Jake Paul Smith: So you're fermenting it's this kind of cold water fermentation process and then it turns into this beautiful blue once it's oxidized and, um, I think my head started getting excited again, you know, my mind was starting to think like how I could integrate this into creating again.
• 7:36
  Jake Paul Smith: So then I just I started playing.
• 7:38
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, it wasn't.
• 7:39
  Jake Paul Smith: It wasn't, there wasn't this moment of saying I want to be an artist, but just I was able to do it on the side.
• 7:45
  Jake Paul Smith: So I was, um, yeah, just experimenting, you know, and meeting new people, building community within the art scene here and, um, only more recently have I've come to a point where I have pulled together a variety of techniques, materials, um, a sense of like purpose with my work and and meaning.
• 8:09
  Jake Paul Smith: And there always is like a interesting loop.
• 8:12
  Jake Paul Smith: I think a lot of people, a lot of artists, feel like they need to find that story, find that meaning beforehand to be able to start.
• 8:18
  Jake Paul Smith: But it always happens in reverse.
• 8:21
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, you have to produce the work and then you look back and be like, oh, I'm just producing what's already inside.
• 8:28
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, you're just speaking to yourself, so what that may be for me is definitely a lot of my work is, you know, provokes the sense of stillness, quietness, softness, delicate delicacy, and I think that comes from what I loved about yoga, you know, and how I live my life.
• 8:47
  Jake Paul Smith: My life, I kind of try and simplify, always as much as possible.
• 8:50
  Jake Paul Smith: You see that in my design, you see that in the way that I practice, the way that I live, and now within my, within my paint as well, um, so the, you know, kind of coming full circle.
• 9:04
  Jake Paul Smith: I predominantly work with natural materials and the visuals that I create, arguably, are perceived as something that's quite natural, these shapes that are very organic and soft and gentle.
• 9:15
  Jake Paul Smith: You might see a landscape, you might see a tree, a wave ocean, um, but they're always very soft, you know, and something that we probably won't naturally connect to.
• 9:21
  Jake Paul Smith: I think people see my work and will connect it to something in nature, but they're always very soft, you know, and something that we probably won't naturally connect to.
• 9:26
  Jake Paul Smith: I think people see my work and will connect it to something in nature, um, yeah, I get like palm tree, whale, fin, sunrise landscape, whatever it may be, but the there's no intention behind what it is, it's really just a opportunity to highlight the material.
• 9:44
  Jake Paul Smith: So, with these materials are exponentially more sensitive with what you can do with them and how they interact in the canvas.
• 9:54
  Jake Paul Smith: So I'm always trying to find a way to um, highlight that beauty, you know, and in that way we'll create certain shapes that work better with it, you know.
• 10:05
  Jake Paul Smith: So, something that, say, is more watery, you're not going to get something that is very delicate in its line work, so maybe I have to highlight the beauty of that looseness that it creates.
• 10:14
  Jake Paul Smith: So, you know, I get to.
• 10:17
  Jake Paul Smith: You know I'm creating these visuals that are perceived, as you know, very, very natural, and I'm using natural materials.
• 10:23
  Jake Paul Smith: And I think there's this resonance with the work that just um gives you that same moment as when you see something in nature, so like a burning flame, or when you're looking out to the ocean, or where you see the, the wind blow it through the trees, something very mesmerizing, you know.
• 10:40
  Jake Paul Smith: I think it really has that power to stop you, you know you and take a breath.
• 10:45
  Jake Paul Smith: I'm in nature, I'm a living person, it's a beautiful life that we live, whatever it may be.
• 10:50
  Jake Paul Smith: You're in this hectic world and it's an opportunity to just snap out of that.
• 10:55
  Jake Paul Smith: So I think I'm trying to do that with my work, or an opportunity to just stop for a moment and reflect, or to quieten down.
• 11:10
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, that's where we are now.
• 11:14
  Matt Jacob: I mean I look at your work, which is fantastic.
• 11:16
  Matt Jacob: It resonates so much with me because I think we have a shared outlook on how we maybe live our lives, but also how we want to make others feel in terms of that, that respite that you might get by looking at one of your paintings, you know, respite from just everything in life that we all get carried away with.
• 11:36
  Matt Jacob: So I'm interested to.
• 11:38
  Matt Jacob: You talked about kind of a purpose and meaning which I think gets banded around a lot and people don't quite understand.
• 11:45
  Matt Jacob: I love the way you talked about it.
• 11:46
  Matt Jacob: It's exactly the way I talk about it.
• 11:47
  Matt Jacob: You don't kind of choose it, you have to experiment and just be and it almost finds you.
• 11:55
  Matt Jacob: How would you describe your meaning and your purpose with with your process as much as the output?
• 12:02
  Matt Jacob: I think the output is clearly an expression of how you see the world and how you like to manipulate nature, but also how you want others to be and to feel when they see it right.
• 12:14
  Matt Jacob: Where does this all emanate from?
• 12:16
  Matt Jacob: And I'd argue it maybe doesn't emanate from yoga.
• 12:19
  Matt Jacob: It must go way back before that right, was this something that you loved being as a child or doing, or vice versa.
• 12:28
  Matt Jacob: You maybe didn't have that much stillness, peace, quiet.
• 12:33
  Matt Jacob: Do you have any idea where that might come from?
• 12:36
  Jake Paul Smith: my dad, I think.
• 12:37
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, he's a quiet man your motorbike buddy my motorbike buddy, um, he is very content in in his life, very uh, has a great sense of uh, direction, you know, always uh, very reliable.
• 12:56
  Jake Paul Smith: There's just like a for me, just a, a great um depiction of of a father or of of a man, and always takes everything in his stride.
• 13:06
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, there's just such a great sense of, of strength, doesn't really care so much about what other people think, lives a very simple life, you know.
• 13:14
  Jake Paul Smith: So if I was going to argue, if I was going to go as far back as possible, I imagine that has a large influence and then over time it's probably just compounded through all the creative pursuits that I've done.
• 13:27
  Jake Paul Smith: I try and describe what I do and this shows up in everything that I do.
• 13:31
  Jake Paul Smith: I have this obsession with finding something that is unique but not forced.
• 13:38
  Jake Paul Smith: It's very easy to create something that is unique by having so many flourishes, so many unique accents, so many layers.
• 13:46
  Jake Paul Smith: Whatever it may be, it's over the top.
• 13:47
  Jake Paul Smith: You can create something unique very easily that way.
• 13:50
  Jake Paul Smith: I I love this way.
• 13:52
  Jake Paul Smith: It's like it's so close to something that you know, but it's just slightly different.
• 13:57
  Jake Paul Smith: That makes you go that's wow, that's, that's nice, but it just seems so similar to everything else and that's the sweet spot for me.
• 14:04
  Jake Paul Smith: So you'll see that with, yeah, through my design, through my, through my paint, it's I hope it's something that from afar, from a quick moment, you might be, I've seen that before, but if you give it a second, then there's this depth, this quality, this, this sensitivity.
• 14:20
  Matt Jacob: That, um, is very beautiful, you know is it more your wish for the world that you put on canvas, or is it more of a reflection of you?
• 14:31
  Jake Paul Smith: that's a good question.
• 14:36
  Jake Paul Smith: I, you know, through my teachings of of being a teacher, I wanted to definitely help people, that's for sure.
• 14:43
  Jake Paul Smith: I wanted, you know, I think, like a lot of teachers, if it be a coach or a trainer, whatever it may be most likely you had an experience in your life that helped you, and then you want to share that with the world, and that's definitely what happened with yoga.
• 14:57
  Jake Paul Smith: But I got to a point where I no longer wanted to be a teacher.
• 15:00
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, I didn't want to shout, I didn't want to tell people what to do, and I think that's the beauty of of art it sits by itself and it's very quiet and you're really inviting people to come and learn from it or to experience something from it, but they don't have to, you know, and I think that's I think that's very beautiful.
• 15:17
  Jake Paul Smith: So I think it's really the same message, you know.
• 15:21
  Jake Paul Smith: Again, you know, in a class setting, I might be helping people find a sense of peace, quietness, move the body, find clarity, whatever it may be.
• 15:31
  Jake Paul Smith: And then I want that same thing with with my work do you wish the world was more like that, though?
• 15:39
  Jake Paul Smith: I would like the world to be more like that.
• 15:41
  Matt Jacob: I um because what I find so what resonates mostly with me in your work.
• 15:47
  Matt Jacob: I love the abstractness of it, but also kind of the literal ties in terms of the, the raw materials, right.
• 15:54
  Matt Jacob: I love your relationship with nature and how you express that, you know, in something that's physical that we can hang on our walls.
• 16:01
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, is is the nature thing.
• 16:04
  Matt Jacob: Where does that relationship come from?
• 16:06
  Matt Jacob: Is that something that you wish we as, without being too grandiose, we as a human race should pay more attention to?
• 16:13
  Matt Jacob: Is there kind of an undercurrent of that, or is it more of a kind of personal, intimate relationship?
• 16:18
  Jake Paul Smith: I think it comes from a place of an obsession with process, and when you get to work with something, an obsession with process and an obsession with um simplicity obviously when you're using raw materials it's not overly um complicated, you know, and I I get to really feel like I own the entirety of the, the process from from start to finish.
• 16:50
  Jake Paul Smith: So, yeah, there's a, there's a great simplicity and joy when be able to just take something from the ground that anyone can access and you know, going for a variety of processes, if that's adding different liquids or a combination of different materials to allow it to adhere to the fabric, to stay around for a long time, to be light fast and color fast and so forth.
• 17:14
  Jake Paul Smith: There's such a magic in that alchemy because there's nearly an ownership of the material.
• 17:20
  Jake Paul Smith: Even before you started creating the, the, you know the, the composition itself, you know, rather than taking something that is created by someone else, I paint and then and then creating your piece with it, I get to, I get to take ownership over over the, the material itself.
• 17:36
  Jake Paul Smith: I just get such great enjoyment from one, the search of the material.
• 17:41
  Jake Paul Smith: So recently I had an artist residency in Sumba with Cap Corozo, and they have a variety of natural dyeing materials out there and beautiful Sumbanese artisans that I got to explore and work with.
• 17:57
  Matt Jacob: Just to clarify Sumba is an island in Southeast Indonesia.
• 18:01
  Jake Paul Smith: Yes, you got it Just for people who don't know?
• 18:03
  Matt Jacob: yeah, beautiful, beautiful untouched island.
• 18:05
  Matt Jacob: Don't go there.
• 18:07
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah it has a.
• 18:09
  Jake Paul Smith: It's still very, very raw and there's this authenticity with the locals and, um yeah, very under um populated.
• 18:18
  Jake Paul Smith: It's very beautiful, um.
• 18:21
  Jake Paul Smith: So, outside of what they use for dying, they actually have this thing called betel nut which they use as a as a drug.
• 18:27
  Jake Paul Smith: It's a mild high kind of gives you a light nicotine high, I would say, but it produces this bright red um teeth color, teeth.
• 18:36
  Jake Paul Smith: What's interesting about that?
• 18:38
  Jake Paul Smith: The actual high comes from only one component.
• 18:40
  Jake Paul Smith: It is it's formed of three components.
• 18:42
  Jake Paul Smith: The other two components are there to produce a red color and then so you can actually get the high without having the red it's not essential.
• 18:52
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's there's a few things happening.
• 18:54
  Jake Paul Smith: One they believe there's like this variety to it, like um, a beauty, um, so that smile, the lips, the teeth, there's a, there's a beauty to that, so that's one thing they see.
• 19:04
  Jake Paul Smith: And also there's this idea of giving back to the earth.
• 19:07
  Jake Paul Smith: So they're then spitting into the ground.
• 19:08
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's this cyclical thing, so we're taking the, the nut and the other things, combining them together and then, and then, this kind of uh, blood, representation of blood back into the ground, this energy, because their religion is massively kind of intertwined into, yeah, this cyclical um give and take religion exactly yeah, which I always when I was there.
• 19:34
  Jake Paul Smith: I just felt very avatar to me, you know this like strong connection to nature, which was very beautiful.
• 19:38
  Jake Paul Smith: So that was enticing for me.
• 19:41
  Jake Paul Smith: I was like, with this bright red, I want to see if I can create something with this.
• 19:45
  Jake Paul Smith: It's not something that they use, not that I, you know, I asked some people, it's just one of the answers I got is too expensive.
• 19:53
  Matt Jacob: Really.
• 19:54
  Jake Paul Smith: It's not really that expensive, but maybe they mean in the sense that they value it more as the.
• 19:58
  Jake Paul Smith: You know what I mean and yeah, I didn't.
• 20:00
  Jake Paul Smith: I don't know how they wanted me to interpret that, but I got to start working with that.
• 20:05
  Jake Paul Smith: I mixed it with a variety of other things.
• 20:07
  Jake Paul Smith: One of the main components is tree sap.
• 20:10
  Jake Paul Smith: That kind of gives you the thickness that's necessary to paint with.
• 20:13
  Jake Paul Smith: So my whole new series was with that and that was what was so beautiful that I get to work with stuff that is kind of rooted to different places.
• 20:22
  Jake Paul Smith: I get so excited for it kind of inspires my travels places.
• 20:25
  Jake Paul Smith: I get so excited for it kind of, uh, inspires my travels, you know, trying to uncover new color or even lost color.
• 20:30
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, color that might have been used in the past but, you know, disappeared with mass manufacturing.
• 20:36
  Jake Paul Smith: You know it's just it's too difficult or too expensive.
• 20:39
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, so I that definitely is like an underpinning of my, of my mission.
• 20:45
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, um which I which gives me this, this, this motivation and this inspiration for new series, yeah so is the.
• 20:56
  Matt Jacob: We'll talk about your process in a minute.
• 20:57
  Matt Jacob: I'm fascinated to hear about the whole process, because I know it's not just getting canvas out and painting.
• 21:01
  Matt Jacob: But um, when did you kind of start noticing your interest in these natural colors?
• 21:09
  Matt Jacob: You mentioned it a little bit earlier, but more so the emotional weight of these colors and how they might be appropriate for certain expressions or depictions of what you want to put on canvas.
• 21:20
  Matt Jacob: Was that kind of like a conscious thing of you?
• 21:22
  Matt Jacob: Know, I want to try this color or this natural ingredient because of such and such.
• 21:29
  Jake Paul Smith: Or is it just more of an experimentation?
• 21:30
  Jake Paul Smith: I think the material comes first.
• 21:32
  Jake Paul Smith: Okay.
• 21:32
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, so the original was indigo Like.
• 21:36
  Jake Paul Smith: I said I got to work with that.
• 21:38
  Jake Paul Smith: I would argue that indigo is probably the most powerful natural dye on the planet the way that it adheres and sticks without needing any support of anything else.
• 21:49
  Jake Paul Smith: It's very colorfast, lightfast, and you get such a range of color in the sense of light to dark.
• 21:56
  Jake Paul Smith: You can intensify that color to nearly black if you spend enough time with it.
• 22:02
  Matt Jacob: Sorry, what do you mean by lightfast and colorfast, if you spend?
• 22:05
  Jake Paul Smith: enough time with it.
• 22:05
  Jake Paul Smith: So what do you mean by light fast and color fast In the way?
• 22:11
  Jake Paul Smith: So light fast would be, let's say, the sun hits it and it gets bleached, so it's being protected against from light.
• 22:18
  Jake Paul Smith: And then color fast is that it doesn't shift in its color, in its hue.
• 22:22
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, exactly, it can stay, it's the same hue.
• 22:26
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, so that was like a spark, you know that, like reignited, because I am an artist, we're all artists, arguably, but I think there's, um, there's a mindset and this, this, this training that you go for as a, you know, an art student, that really just allows you to accept this idea that, um, you know, anything is good or bad.
• 22:49
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, nothing is right or wrong.
• 22:51
  Jake Paul Smith: It is, it's entirely up to you.
• 22:53
  Jake Paul Smith: And that's why it's so difficult, and I struggled when I was younger, to have the confidence to say, no, this is, this, is it, this is me, this is.
• 22:58
  Jake Paul Smith: I'm proud of this, I'm excited by this, this is my message, whatever it may be, and you've got to put it out there.
• 23:05
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, there's no one telling you that it's correct and I always have this, this, this memory of one of my university teachers, you know, as a, as a young boy looking for answers and like reassurance.
• 23:16
  Jake Paul Smith: I would go up to him and, like a lot of people, I assume, but is this good?
• 23:20
  Jake Paul Smith: You know?
• 23:20
  Jake Paul Smith: Am I, am I on the right track?
• 23:23
  Jake Paul Smith: Like, if I keep going this way, am I gonna get a good grade?
• 23:25
  Jake Paul Smith: And then he'd be like do you think it's good?
• 23:27
  Jake Paul Smith: I'm like I don't, I don't, I want to know if you think it's good, because you're the one grading me.
• 23:32
  Jake Paul Smith: And he was like if you think it's good, then it is.
• 23:36
  Matt Jacob: And that at that time was so hard for me to wrap my head around, you know, and now it just seems so obvious yeah, it's so interesting you talk about that because I've been talking about this a lot recently and how, you know, as kids anything go, you know, young kids were creative creatively.
• 23:53
  Matt Jacob: We go and play, we go and improvise, we make stuff.
• 23:55
  Matt Jacob: You know, it's just like oh, just, the whole world is a playground.
• 23:58
  Matt Jacob: Right, as we get older and as we go through the formal education process, as our parents limit our, you know, as they restrict our kind of movements in terms of rules, you can't do this and you can say that you can't do this.
• 24:10
  Matt Jacob: Generally speaking, our creativity, just, it's still there, but it just gets beaten down a bit.
• 24:15
  Matt Jacob: And so we start like trying to perform and validate and get grades and is this good?
• 24:20
  Matt Jacob: It's good or bad?
• 24:21
  Matt Jacob: Right, it's as though, like now, now, as you grow older, you realize that that system is just almost arbitrary, it's almost artificial in its construction.
• 24:32
  Matt Jacob: Right, people made this system out of nothing and it means nothing, especially in the art world.
• 24:38
  Matt Jacob: If only we could all understand that.
• 24:40
  Matt Jacob: We're all creative.
• 24:41
  Matt Jacob: It's just a matter of making sure that creativity is aligned with who.
• 24:45
  Matt Jacob: We are right.
• 24:45
  Matt Jacob: So when you talk, talk about that, it resonates so much and that quote don't try and be the best, be the only, and that's like just sums up everything in terms of creativity and being an artist, it's like.
• 24:57
  Matt Jacob: But as children, as young, as certainly as younger adults, I don't understand.
• 25:01
  Matt Jacob: You know, it has to be.
• 25:02
  Matt Jacob: It's not a one, right?
• 25:04
  Matt Jacob: It's box or no box, like.
• 25:05
  Matt Jacob: It has to be good.
• 25:07
  Jake Paul Smith: But you know, I have to be on this path because I know that there's this or I think that there's this end result where I could just go okay, yeah, I'm an artist now, right, just, of course, that's not reality agree, no, I agree, yeah, I mean, it's uh, it's a, it's a difficult road and, um, I feel very lucky to have had these other uh, you know, crafts jobs to allow me to make my way back to, to where I am now.
• 25:36
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, I think I would have ended up here, no matter what, you know, if we all just have a different, a different journey.
• 25:42
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, but, yeah, no, I feel very lucky to.
• 25:46
  Jake Paul Smith: I feel like in some ways, I was kind of forced in that direction.
• 25:49
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, in the sense, like I said, I was really not that capable in school in any other subject, so I had to kind of navigate myself down that road just to find us.
• 26:02
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, it was the only thing that kind of gave me a sense of being good you know, so that was achieving something yeah, I was like oh, they're telling me I'm good at it, so I maybe keep going, yeah, um so, yeah, no, I'm, and yeah, I'm very excited to just continue that you know do you know?
• 26:20
  Matt Jacob: so how do you validate success now, or does that, does that not come into your vocabulary at all?
• 26:26
  Jake Paul Smith: no, definitely.
• 26:26
  Jake Paul Smith: I mean, success is, you know, we have this kind of like westernized societal structure of success which I think we well, we don't have to, but I mean you nearly have to be a part of.
• 26:40
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, like as an artist, yes, we can argue that we are creating something beautiful or successful or whatever it may be, something that you enjoy.
• 26:52
  Jake Paul Smith: It doesn't have to be anything more than that, but if you're not able to take it from there and then get it into the public eye, um, then you know, it's even that would be a challenge for me.
• 27:06
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, I, I feel like it's very human to want to be justified for your work.
• 27:11
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, and yeah, I can't say that it doesn't feel good when someone purchases a piece of work or I get an opportunity to share it in some manner, if it would be a residency or an exhibition, or because it's just a justification.
• 27:26
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, there's this sense of, you know, this natural curve of a career, in any career, any career.
• 27:39
  Jake Paul Smith: So, no, I, I, and it's nice that people resonate with it as well, right, so it's like, oh, wow, I'm not the only one that thinks this, you know, and or maybe I'm helping or supporting or bringing just, uh, some beauty into a space or whatever it may be.
• 27:49
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, so no, I, I I'm someone, I like the kind of 360 approach or like points of building a business.
• 28:02
  Jake Paul Smith: You know I've built multiple and I'm not an artist that just likes to create the art.
• 28:12
  Jake Paul Smith: Um marketing, branding, storytelling, web building, photography, um press, pr.
• 28:22
  Jake Paul Smith: I like them all and like I like it as like as a package.
• 28:26
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, because it's such an interesting journey as an artist, I think the most eye-opening thing, like once I've really committed to to this, this career path, is the kind of underpinnings of the infrastructure of becoming a like famous artist.
• 28:46
  Jake Paul Smith: You know the way that you need to get like build up a cv of credentials, of prizes, awards, press, magazines and all them, and predominantly, they're paid.
• 28:56
  Jake Paul Smith: You know there's this kind of continuous exchange.
• 28:59
  Jake Paul Smith: You know you might have to pay them or you might have to exchange work or effort or application process.
• 29:08
  Jake Paul Smith: You know there's all these, all these things, that it's the, that that world is very propped.
• 29:13
  Jake Paul Smith: You know everyone needs to be paid.
• 29:15
  Jake Paul Smith: You know whatever magazine, they need to be paid somehow.
• 29:19
  Jake Paul Smith: So, as much as a lot of that, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors and like fakery to get you to be seen, I'm willing to do it slash.
• 29:29
  Jake Paul Smith: There is an enjoyment with it because there's this like sense of this growth and, uh, accomplishment, but then it allows me to be in a place that people see my work.
• 29:38
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, in a broader sense, and we all know the like validation of like something being framed in the sense of the physical frame itself, the framing of the space, the building, and then the town, the city, the country.
• 29:53
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, if it's in Vogue magazine, it's the same work, but the framing of where it's in vogue magazine, it's the same work, but the the framing of where it's placed drastically increases its value and the perception of that value.
• 30:04
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, and I'm willing to play that game.
• 30:07
  Matt Jacob: Yeah yeah, I think there's well let's.
• 30:11
  Matt Jacob: You will dive into the business side of things now, because I think that's such an interesting part that that a lot of people like to know about and there's very individual in the, in the, in the journey.
• 30:21
  Matt Jacob: But I think it's important to try, like you said, try and enjoy that process.
• 30:25
  Matt Jacob: It's part of the art, you know, we, we it's.
• 30:27
  Matt Jacob: You just can't.
• 30:29
  Matt Jacob: You can't just make a painting and that's the only thing you do.
• 30:32
  Matt Jacob: Obviously you can do that, but if you've chosen it as a path to sustain your life or to grow in terms of the stature associated with that, then you've got to put in all of the other parts, moving parts that have to come together to make sure that happens.
• 30:51
  Matt Jacob: So tell us a little bit about, essentially, your business model as an artist.
• 30:57
  Matt Jacob: Give the audience and myself an idea of what this we have the painting as the kind of the final output, right?
• 31:05
  Matt Jacob: What goes into that, not only as a process, but certainly with the marketing and the business structure?
• 31:11
  Matt Jacob: How do you make money from?
• 31:13
  Jake Paul Smith: it Big question.
• 31:14
  Jake Paul Smith: I want to see how I can like distill that down.
• 31:17
  Jake Paul Smith: So you know, regarding where I am in my journey, arguably I really told myself the start of this year that I was going to be a full-time artist.
• 31:27
  Jake Paul Smith: So you're speaking to someone that is very much, very early on their journey of being, you know, like a working artist.
• 31:35
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, I've been someone that's been in the art world for a very long time, but someone that's committed fully, kind of to all aspects is very new.
• 31:42
  Jake Paul Smith: So I can kind of give you an insight to the a few things that I've done, initially in some places that I found success.
• 31:50
  Jake Paul Smith: So what I realized is I needed to develop some sort of CV to give yourself basically a sense of like.
• 31:59
  Jake Paul Smith: You need to build up your clout, you know, your, your, your yeah, your value.
• 32:03
  Jake Paul Smith: So one of the things I started applying for was residencies.
• 32:09
  Jake Paul Smith: The first one was in Cap Corozo.
• 32:11
  Jake Paul Smith: I have one coming up in Mexico and then I have one in Shanghai which I'm very excited by.
• 32:18
  Jake Paul Smith: It's actually the Swatch Art Peace Hotel, which is quite a prestigious residency, and it's a four month residency with 18 other artists.
• 32:29
  Jake Paul Smith: So it's very much been created to help support and grow a small community of artists.
• 32:35
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's 18 living accommodation, 18 studios and then a small community of artists.
• 32:37
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's 18 living accommodation, 18 studios and then a gallery, and then we're there for format, support each other in producing this work with an end result of exhibiting our work there.
• 32:48
  Jake Paul Smith: So every time you get to access these different touch points, there's a whole variety of opportunities through connection.
• 32:55
  Jake Paul Smith: You go into different countries, meeting new people, producing new work.
• 32:59
  Jake Paul Smith: So at the foundational level, that's what I've found to be like the best, like stepping stone into trying to one, develop my craft at the same time, expand my reach at the same time.
• 33:14
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, working on press.
• 33:18
  Jake Paul Smith: So we're here right now on a podcast, so just helping me develop and and communicate my story.
• 33:25
  Jake Paul Smith: Uh, magazine outreach as well.
• 33:26
  Jake Paul Smith: Just starting very small again.
• 33:28
  Jake Paul Smith: You know I already told you if you want to be in large magazines, you either have to be famous or you have to pay them to be in there.
• 33:34
  Jake Paul Smith: But smaller magazines, then they, they might be willing to tell your story.
• 33:39
  Jake Paul Smith: So the story that I'm telling in the upcoming magazine is the story of simba, you know, going over there, working with the tribes or the, the, the artisans producing the natural dyes from there and extracting that and working with that material and and producing something from that and being inspired by the land, using the land and then kind of the.
• 33:59
  Jake Paul Smith: You know the, the, the reasoning behind showing the work and you know bringing that, that stillness, um, into people's lives.
• 34:07
  Jake Paul Smith: So that's kind of the story there so just stop there for a second.
• 34:11
  Matt Jacob: So um residency wise, um mag pr wise.
• 34:15
  Matt Jacob: It may seem obvious to you, but tell us how you go about you know, applying for those or trying to get featured, yeah, in those publications again, very, very new to me and I was.
• 34:25
  Jake Paul Smith: It's all been very eye-opening and, again, quite enjoyable in some way.
• 34:28
  Jake Paul Smith: Actually, I'll give you a little insight and probably resonate with people.
• 34:32
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, I, as someone who really struggled at school, struggled with language, reading, writing, which is such a such, held me back, such a crutch, you know it.
• 34:42
  Jake Paul Smith: Just, it was so difficult for me to move beyond that language and that's why I continuously moved into visuals, that's why I felt comfortable, and applying for these things is challenging.
• 34:53
  Jake Paul Smith: They're quite extensive, like you know.
• 34:55
  Jake Paul Smith: You might have to do a thousand words on this, then a 400 word bio, then a 500 word intent.
• 35:01
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, like what you want to do whilst you're there, right, so like it stacks up, and it's just not something that would have been possible for me, or I, at least, would have avoided it.
• 35:11
  Jake Paul Smith: It wouldn't have been worth my time, just so much distress.
• 35:13
  Jake Paul Smith: I just really struggled with that, you know.
• 35:16
  Jake Paul Smith: But now we have chat, gbt, you know, and that's I.
• 35:20
  Jake Paul Smith: I know it can be deemed as something that feels unhuman, and but I it's for me.
• 35:27
  Jake Paul Smith: It's finally allowed me to communicate what I've always wanted to say.
• 35:31
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, and when I read it back, you know, I try and be as honest with it as possible and offer it what I really feel.
• 35:36
  Jake Paul Smith: I know that it's going to be able to feed back to me in more of a formulaic way, so I get to just kind of say what I want.
• 35:44
  Jake Paul Smith: I normally do audio, you know.
• 35:45
  Jake Paul Smith: I speak to it and it's just it feels so true to me so I feel very.
• 35:50
  Jake Paul Smith: It really changed my life actually and that might have been a component of me deciding.
• 35:55
  Jake Paul Smith: I think there were so many things but that was a real big game changer for me.
• 36:01
  Jake Paul Smith: So you have to, you have to apply.
• 36:03
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's a variety of ways.
• 36:04
  Jake Paul Smith: Social media is a good way, like Instagram.
• 36:06
  Jake Paul Smith: There's so many like open calls.
• 36:08
  Jake Paul Smith: Open call meaning like anyone can apply generally.
• 36:11
  Jake Paul Smith: It could be anything from applying from an exhibition, it could be applying for a prize, it could be applying for a magazine.
• 36:17
  Jake Paul Smith: It could be applying for a prize.
• 36:18
  Jake Paul Smith: It could be applying for a magazine.
• 36:18
  Jake Paul Smith: It could be applying for a residency.
• 36:20
  Jake Paul Smith: And I've applied for quite a few.
• 36:23
  Jake Paul Smith: Just to kind of give you an idea of numbers, I've maybe applied for 30, 40, and I've got three.
• 36:33
  Jake Paul Smith: So 10% not bad, pretty good, I don't know I would say 1 in 100 to people.
• 36:37
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, I don't know what other people maybe other people can write in and tell me what their percentage rating is.
• 36:41
  Jake Paul Smith: I'd say better than 1%.
• 36:42
  Matt Jacob: I think it's good.
• 36:43
  Matt Jacob: You've got to have the work.
• 36:44
  Matt Jacob: Obviously You've got to have the brand.
• 36:46
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 36:47
  Matt Jacob: Look at your website and you know you are immediately on that front page, your work, obviously speaks for itself.
• 36:58
  Matt Jacob: You know you've still got to have that.
• 36:59
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, that really will give you a a foothold in that application process shortly I would, I would assume.
• 37:03
  Jake Paul Smith: So, yeah, so the website is very new.
• 37:06
  Jake Paul Smith: Like I said, I'm quite lucky as, being a brand designer, web designer, I was able to produce that all myself and that was, that was a challenging process.
• 37:14
  Jake Paul Smith: I've built a few websites myself for like uh, like my an agency, but, as most creatives know, building your own site or building your own thing is always the most challenging, um, but that was very rewarding actually.
• 37:27
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, I like when you I remember when I was younger, you know you produce all this work and there was never this sense of satisfaction at the end because you never really completed it.
• 37:36
  Jake Paul Smith: And then, more recently, you know you would complete the work and most likely frame it, you know.
• 37:40
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's this, there's this kind of completion there, but then there's this next completion of you photograph it and then you present it on your website, you know, or on your portfolio, which then is this like extra layer of creativity, so the photography, styling, the, the design of the site or the design of the pdf, and then also like how you want to shoot it.
• 38:01
  Jake Paul Smith: Of course you're going to have like the standard, like product shot, as you would with, like, say, a t-shirt, but then you could move into some sort of campaign orientated photography.
• 38:09
  Jake Paul Smith: So maybe that's interacting with the painting, maybe it's on a wall, maybe it's in a beautiful space, maybe it's.
• 38:14
  Jake Paul Smith: Maybe you're using ai, you know is to to place it in's in a beautiful space.
• 38:17
  Jake Paul Smith: Maybe you're using AI, you know is to place it in again another frame to highlight its meaning or its feeling, whatever it may be.
• 38:24
  Jake Paul Smith: So, yes, so a combination of presenting yourself in a good way and then, luckily, using chat to help me communicate that in as an authentic way as possible.
• 38:36
  Matt Jacob: It's just a matter of finding the, the, the, the people, the publications or the you know establishments that you want to apply to right yeah, I think some speak to you more than others.
• 38:47
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, anytime something of nature is mentioned, I get like excited because I'm one.
• 38:52
  Jake Paul Smith: I'm I feel like I have a better potential of getting it because I'm mine's so heavily intertwined in nature in so many ways what I'm using and what I'm depicting and very much like who I am, how I live and so forth.
• 39:05
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, and yeah, location or the retroability of the, of the, the magazine or the, the brand, does that like connect you need to be, to be important, like be selective with these things.
• 39:16
  Jake Paul Smith: I think it's okay.
• 39:20
  Matt Jacob: So we've got PR, which is a big part of it.
• 39:23
  Matt Jacob: We've got residencies what?
• 39:29
  Jake Paul Smith: else is forming the business model pillars.
• 39:32
  Jake Paul Smith: The next one is well, this is in no order.
• 39:34
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, I think this can go in any order.
• 39:37
  Jake Paul Smith: This is in no, no order.
• 39:40
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, I think there's, you can go in any order.
• 39:41
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, exhibitions is is a very, a very standard way to highlight your work, to present your work.
• 39:44
  Jake Paul Smith: Now you could work with a gallery directly, so you have to be like um, what's the word that I'm looking for?
• 39:52
  Jake Paul Smith: Like um, they, you know, they, they sign you.
• 39:56
  Jake Paul Smith: I can't remember the word I'm looking for right now, but the, the gallery, signs you and then your work is placed within that gallery and you're a part of that gallery.
• 40:03
  Jake Paul Smith: Or you find your own space and you, you know, you produce your own exhibitions, which potentially might be necessary, one to sell work, maybe, but two just to produce content.
• 40:14
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, because it's just a demonstration of there.
• 40:18
  Jake Paul Smith: There's one thing showing like oh, here's my work.
• 40:20
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, this is what it looks like, but how's it look in a space?
• 40:23
  Jake Paul Smith: Not only like in the way that it's curated.
• 40:25
  Jake Paul Smith: You know how they're placed side by side, how they're lit, you know how you're creating, like, you know your range or your set of paintings.
• 40:34
  Jake Paul Smith: So that's something that you need to look into range or your set of paintings.
• 40:37
  Jake Paul Smith: So that's something that you need to look into and then you know if you want to, if you want a gallery.
• 40:39
  Jake Paul Smith: So far I've I've had brief interactions.
• 40:42
  Jake Paul Smith: Unfortunately none have gone through.
• 40:43
  Jake Paul Smith: Um again, they weren't the right fit.
• 40:46
  Jake Paul Smith: But outreach, yeah, I do quite a lot of outreach and just um.
• 40:52
  Jake Paul Smith: You know I have my PDF no-transcript.
• 41:19
  Jake Paul Smith: Um is to get into art fairs.
• 41:21
  Jake Paul Smith: Okay, so you can get to art fairs individually.
• 41:25
  Jake Paul Smith: Um I actually it was really cool.
• 41:27
  Jake Paul Smith: I've recently got reached out to multiple large art fairs in the last couple of months, which, again, you know when we we spoke about success when I got.
• 41:36
  Jake Paul Smith: When you get reached out to, it's like oh wow yeah, one you just feel something.
• 41:40
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, you're like oh one, they've just seen me.
• 41:43
  Jake Paul Smith: That's kind of cool, they found me somehow.
• 41:45
  Jake Paul Smith: Two, I must have sung enough for them to reach out to me.
• 41:48
  Jake Paul Smith: But then that kind of died down quite quickly and then I realized obviously they want money from you, but still it's one step forward because if they don't reach out to you do have to apply.
• 42:00
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's an application process.
• 42:02
  Jake Paul Smith: Then they accept you, then you pay and so you skip the application process and then you go straight to payment, um, and then you pay for wall space.
• 42:11
  Jake Paul Smith: So one meter, two meters, three meters depend on the art fair.
• 42:15
  Jake Paul Smith: I've seen anything from 200 to 2000 give or take.
• 42:20
  Jake Paul Smith: But you can go exponentially more if you want more space, right, but initial fee, um, but then the footfall can be hundreds of thousands.
• 42:28
  Jake Paul Smith: You know we're talking very large numbers, um, it's not something that I've delved into yet.
• 42:32
  Jake Paul Smith: I think it's something that I will line up and move forwards with.
• 42:35
  Jake Paul Smith: But if you have a gallery, they're doing that for you.
• 42:37
  Jake Paul Smith: That's kind of part of them taking most likely 50, 50.
• 42:41
  Jake Paul Smith: The gallery's taking 50 every time they sell.
• 42:44
  Jake Paul Smith: But they're trusting in you, right, like your whole brand that you've built, your, your work your story, everything, and that will then most likely give you access to a lot of fairs and galleries.
• 42:54
  Jake Paul Smith: Get like easy access or like initial access, uh, whereas individual designers is um, painters is uh limited, yeah, yeah.
• 43:05
  Jake Paul Smith: So I would say that's probably nearly the kind of complete and selling artwork directly to individuals.
• 43:13
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 43:14
  Jake Paul Smith: So most of my work has been sold directly.
• 43:17
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, uh, through through instagram, um, and then also through, uh, placing the work in places with footfall restaurants, hotels, um, retreat spaces.
• 43:34
  Jake Paul Smith: Have I done anything else?
• 43:36
  Jake Paul Smith: I think we've done them three and I've done different things.
• 43:39
  Jake Paul Smith: I've done um, placing it and then with, like you know the name and qr so they can purchase it.
• 43:46
  Jake Paul Smith: I've I've done it like a rental, so people have actually rented the pieces for me.
• 43:51
  Jake Paul Smith: Okay, um, and also done it in a restaurant where it's kind of like a gallery you know what I mean like it's.
• 43:57
  Jake Paul Smith: I would say that's a great way, as a beginner artist, to introduce, because it's kind of a win-win.
• 44:03
  Jake Paul Smith: You get to go through the process similar to having a real gallery, and the struggles and you know the, the skills that you have to develop, and then, obviously, the restaurant gets some beautiful artwork for a short period of time and, who knows, you know it doesn't even really matter what restaurant, but maybe, arguably, a more premium restaurant might yield a better result.
• 44:24
  Matt Jacob: Um and when you sell your prints directly to an individual.
• 44:28
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, are you selling the whole canvas with frame or you does it get rolled up, or depends.
• 44:34
  Jake Paul Smith: So let's say, someone's purchased it here in bali and actually pretty much all my purchases have been through restaurants.
• 44:40
  Jake Paul Smith: People have come in and they've scanned the QR and they've messaged me saying I love the piece, can I purchase it?
• 44:45
  Jake Paul Smith: Most of the time they're here, so then they're buying it framed, they just go and they're putting it onto their wall.
• 44:52
  Jake Paul Smith: But also some people do want to take it home, so then it goes rolled.
• 44:56
  Jake Paul Smith: But I've also shipped it framed.
• 44:58
  Jake Paul Smith: So it really depends.
• 45:00
  Jake Paul Smith: But from here it's expensive to ship framed.
• 45:02
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, very expensive.
• 45:03
  Jake Paul Smith: So yeah, I I guess all options are available.
• 45:08
  Jake Paul Smith: Something when I was producing my work I think, at least subtly at the back of my mind I did want my work to be rolled, because I do live on a small island, so the likelihood of having to ship it's high.
• 45:20
  Jake Paul Smith: So my work through these layered washes and stains and dyes, the because there's not thick paint, there's no uh potential of cracking.
• 45:32
  Jake Paul Smith: It rolls very easily, there's no problems whatsoever.
• 45:35
  Jake Paul Smith: But people that are using thick paint potentially actually can't roll them.
• 45:40
  Jake Paul Smith: It's not an option for them.
• 45:41
  Jake Paul Smith: So that was something that was partially selective but kind of naturally happened anyway because of the material.
• 45:46
  Jake Paul Smith: Kind of was like a win-win.
• 45:48
  Matt Jacob: so tell us more about and we're going-win.
• 45:48
  Matt Jacob: So tell us more about, and we're going to rewind now, but tell us more about the process.
• 45:53
  Matt Jacob: Okay, so you know, you obviously work with a lot of natural ingredients.
• 45:57
  Matt Jacob: Tell us how the natural ingredients gets onto canvas and everything in between.
• 46:01
  Jake Paul Smith: Okay, let me see.
• 46:03
  Jake Paul Smith: So a whole variety of natural components.
• 46:06
  Jake Paul Smith: Normally they have to be mixed, so the main thing that I use right now is a tree sap, and so that's what gives it the, the thickness.
• 46:14
  Jake Paul Smith: Uh, the tree sap is basically a mixture of the, the extracted powder, then with water, and then, um, I use some vegetable glycerine that again gives it, like that, velocity.
• 46:26
  Jake Paul Smith: I think that's the right word viscosity, viscosity, yeahosity, viscosity, yeah, nice, and a bit of clove oil, which isn't necessary.
• 46:32
  Jake Paul Smith: It just extends the life of it whilst it's wet.
• 46:35
  Jake Paul Smith: But, whilst it's dry.
• 46:36
  Jake Paul Smith: When it's dry, then it doesn't matter.
• 46:38
  Jake Paul Smith: It's actually the problem with mold.
• 46:40
  Jake Paul Smith: Growth is only when it's wet.
• 46:41
  Jake Paul Smith: So once it's put onto the canvas and then dried, none of them problems have.
• 46:47
  Matt Jacob: So how long does it take to dry?
• 46:53
  Jake Paul Smith: I all them problems have.
• 46:54
  Jake Paul Smith: So how long did it take to dry?
• 46:55
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, I mean, it's very wet, the puddles of water a lot of the time, but maybe, um, anywhere between two hours and 12 hours, depending on like how much puddling of the day.
• 47:00
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, yeah, nothing.
• 47:02
  Jake Paul Smith: But with the clove oil it's lasting weeks.
• 47:06
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, so I can produce this work, so I'm binding these pigments together.
• 47:09
  Jake Paul Smith: It might be you know clay, so I can produce this work, so I'm binding these pigments together.
• 47:12
  Jake Paul Smith: It might be you know clay oxides, which are basically extracted pigments from the ground.
• 47:16
  Jake Paul Smith: You can get them in a variety of colors actually, which is super cool.
• 47:19
  Jake Paul Smith: And then we have stuff like indigo.
• 47:21
  Jake Paul Smith: And then we have more dyes, which the dyes are more.
• 47:26
  Jake Paul Smith: They're extracted in a boiling process, mostly apart from indigo, which is a cold water fermentation process.
• 47:32
  Jake Paul Smith: So, for example, mango leaf or coconut husk or mahogany bark, you're basically adding it to water and boiling it for an extended period of time one hour, two hours, three hours, four hours.
• 47:47
  Jake Paul Smith: Then you're soaking the fabric in or I'm pouring on top of the fabric.
• 47:52
  Jake Paul Smith: So actually sometimes I'm literally pouring boiling hot dye on top of my canvas and then it's just kind of steaming and soaking and doing its thing.
• 48:04
  Matt Jacob: Alchemy.
• 48:04
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, there's a real alchemy with it and it's something I enjoy and also like it's a challenge.
• 48:14
  Jake Paul Smith: And it's difficult for me is the work changes as it dries.
• 48:20
  Jake Paul Smith: So there can be this whole journey of emotion where, let's say, I, I pour some dye and it mixes and merges and I'm like I film it because it's like super cool how it's all merging together and and it dries and it's like a brown lump.
• 48:35
  Jake Paul Smith: I'm like you know, and most of the time I'll come down in the morning because it's like I, these big puddles like take like 12 hours or so and I'm so excited.
• 48:44
  Jake Paul Smith: I like I feel like really like confident and like, oh yeah, that was a good day.
• 48:47
  Jake Paul Smith: You know when you get like that that's a good day moment and I wake up in the morning.
• 48:50
  Matt Jacob: I'm like ah, it's analogous to when I I think I've got a photo nailed, yeah, and then come the next day get on the computer and just go because you've just seen on a small screen yeah, just you know, or you, or it's the experience, right.
• 49:03
  Matt Jacob: Uh, people, and you've got, you know the lights, and it's great, I nailed it and you just get it on your laptop screen, just go.
• 49:09
  Jake Paul Smith: oh no, it's great, I nailed it and you just get it on your laptop screen and just go oh no, it's just the average, but that's really cool Cause same for me.
• 49:14
  Jake Paul Smith: I guess you, you could argue that that moment that we gained of like, oh my, that was beautiful because of the emotion, because of the people, whatever was happening, that right there is like, wow, that's really cool.
• 49:27
  Jake Paul Smith: But unfortunately, that's really cool, but unfortunately, sometimes you end up with this, this kind of this, this lump.
• 49:34
  Jake Paul Smith: So that's a constant fight for me and you know, kind of going back to this, this like nothing's good or bad or or right or wrong.
• 49:41
  Jake Paul Smith: You know you're, when you're, let's say, you're, producing something for someone else I design, the end result is complete by it kind of completing the task, like maybe it attracts a certain audience or the client wanted a certain look and you completed that.
• 49:56
  Jake Paul Smith: Look, jake, you did it tick, cool.
• 49:59
  Jake Paul Smith: But when you're just, when you're painting, there's no completion.
• 50:01
  Jake Paul Smith: That's up to you to decide.
• 50:02
  Jake Paul Smith: So you can go, you can spiral, like you pour, like a splodge or whatever.
• 50:07
  Jake Paul Smith: You're like that's not the, that's not the splodge I wanted, that's not the splash.
• 50:11
  Jake Paul Smith: I wanted the splash to be like this and you can just, you can get obsessed, but there's something so beautiful about that, you know, and this is for me, this is constant back and forth, this push-pull, fight, um that there's this, this real struggle, but I just keep coming back, keep coming back because I want, I love that that moment, that high moment, you know, and um, there's, there's such beauty in that.
• 50:34
  Jake Paul Smith: So, yeah, layers pouring on, uh for the topic, with each other, and I can do many layers.
• 50:40
  Jake Paul Smith: It could be 10, it could be 20, it could be more, like I know when it's done, that's something that I just know, like I'm like I did it so where does the, where would you say, your vision?
• 50:51
  Matt Jacob: because you obviously have a vision.
• 50:52
  Matt Jacob: You don't start painting without a vision, or do you start painting without a vision of how you want it to look?
• 50:56
  Jake Paul Smith: depends so when I start like a new series, it's not even actually to do with new series, it just depends.
• 51:03
  Jake Paul Smith: So sometimes I might come in and say I want the, the pigment, the, the paint, whatever, to guide me, and I'll actually use the way that it moves.
• 51:14
  Jake Paul Smith: Obviously I'm managing it to a certain extent and that's something that I really love.
• 51:18
  Jake Paul Smith: It's like I want this, this act of like oh it just happened moment, like when someone sees it.
• 51:24
  Jake Paul Smith: I want this, like there's a certain part of this like was that supposed to happen?
• 51:29
  Jake Paul Smith: And then, combined with like, there's this like real sense of precision, and there's there's this push, pull there, this balance there that I'm obsessed with.
• 51:37
  Jake Paul Smith: That's what actually keeps me kind of coming back and forth, and that's when I know I've got that perfect balance of like these, these moments in the piece.
• 51:44
  Jake Paul Smith: That's like you know, whatever it's like merged and bleached or blended, or like puddled in a way that's impossible to do by hand.
• 51:51
  Jake Paul Smith: It has to happen.
• 51:52
  Jake Paul Smith: Then it's mixed with stuff that is more finely kind of curated and layered, so that so my work is like a mix of the two.
• 52:01
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's there's moments on there that it is mostly out of my hand.
• 52:05
  Jake Paul Smith: You know I can navigate it a little bit, but I'm really entrusting in the material itself and the way that it moves.
• 52:10
  Jake Paul Smith: And then most of the time, the layers on top start to become a little bit more precise and I'm a little but yeah, I'm definitely way more in control of them.
• 52:21
  Jake Paul Smith: So, as a complete composition, I'm continuously trying to find that balance of like oh, it just happened, it's kind of like the natural, like it just naturally happened and then it's been curated.
• 52:33
  Jake Paul Smith: You know kind of like um, and there's different forms and like definitions, but of reminds me of like idealism.
• 52:41
  Jake Paul Smith: So for me, idealism in in my world, in the world that I'm creating, is I'm using nature but I'm able to move it around.
• 52:50
  Jake Paul Smith: So nature is beautiful, but what if I could just move that tree there and then the river cuts through the middle?
• 52:56
  Jake Paul Smith: Uh, now that the composition is really nice, so it's kind of like that.
• 53:00
  Jake Paul Smith: So I'm using something that is natural, that is already beautiful, but I just want to slightly adjust it to just highlight it.
• 53:07
  Jake Paul Smith: Again, that's something you can very much do with photography right that's.
• 53:10
  Jake Paul Smith: That is the, this kind of the game.
• 53:11
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, so yeah, I, I like the idea of taking something that is is natural, that is already there, but just moving it around.
• 53:20
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, you're kind of like a curator, um.
• 53:23
  Jake Paul Smith: So yeah, coming back to it, so layers, washes, and, for me, predominantly, if you see my work, I'm mostly sticking to a monotone color palette.
• 53:32
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, so I'll have a blue series, then a red series, and then I'm currently working on my simba series, which is predominantly in red tones, taking its inspiration from the, the beetle nut, and that, for me, that, that choice, again, it's just.
• 53:47
  Jake Paul Smith: It's just.
• 53:49
  Jake Paul Smith: You could make natural product not look natural, you know, uh, it could like, be very vibrant and like you wouldn't know, but there's part of me that wants people to be reminded that it is natural.
• 54:00
  Jake Paul Smith: So, by using these kind of muted, monotone color palettes, it's a just a reminder that that's what it is.
• 54:07
  Matt Jacob: So that's very important to me and how do you finish the whole thing?
• 54:10
  Matt Jacob: I think we talked a little bit off air.
• 54:12
  Matt Jacob: You know, I imagine if someone buys your work, that they're, and you're using natural ingredients.
• 54:17
  Matt Jacob: If you're an ignorant person like myself, you you would worry a little bit.
• 54:20
  Matt Jacob: Okay, is this going to fade or is this going to last?
• 54:23
  Jake Paul Smith: but you, you know, you, you counter that yeah, I went for a long process and a lot of testing.
• 54:28
  Jake Paul Smith: Again it does.
• 54:29
  Jake Paul Smith: It does depend on the dye.
• 54:30
  Jake Paul Smith: Coming back to indigo, that actually would last Bulletproof.
• 54:34
  Jake Paul Smith: Bulletproof might be pushing it, but it's definitely the strongest dye out there and if it's not in direct sunlight you're going to be just fine.
• 54:41
  Jake Paul Smith: But what I do so I work on stretch canvas predominantly what I'll do is unstretch the canvas and then I'll soak it in a um, kind of a, a mixture of of natural components that creates like a sealed varnish, one of them being a beeswax um, so it's fully submerged and then taken out and it's just, it's dripping, you know, and just soaking through and you get this thin uh wash.
• 55:06
  Jake Paul Smith: Basically it locks in the back and the front.
• 55:08
  Jake Paul Smith: Originally I was just doing the front, but then the sides went down, the back went down, um, which I had no problems.
• 55:14
  Jake Paul Smith: But I just wanted to really create like a, something that would last the test of time and, as you said, when you're using natural product, I think some people will naturally think there's not going to be something that can last as long.
• 55:28
  Jake Paul Smith: So I wanted to combat that and I've had great success so far.
• 55:34
  Jake Paul Smith: I've got one piece up that's in direct sunlight for about three years and it hasn't shifted in any manner.
• 55:41
  Jake Paul Smith: But we can meet up in another 10 years.
• 55:45
  Matt Jacob: I need a piece.
• 55:45
  Matt Jacob: First Give me a piece.
• 55:46
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, yeah, I'll let you know, you talked a little bit about the this.
• 55:51
  Matt Jacob: It sounds as you were talking.
• 55:53
  Matt Jacob: You could see your eyes lighting up.
• 55:55
  Matt Jacob: You know this flow state that you get when you, when you do the painting.
• 55:58
  Matt Jacob: There's a lot of you know.
• 56:01
  Matt Jacob: Outside of that, there's a lot of struggle.
• 56:04
  Matt Jacob: Right there's, there's a lot of you know.
• 56:06
  Matt Jacob: Strategy we talked about business strategy.
• 56:07
  Matt Jacob: We talked about just general.
• 56:09
  Matt Jacob: You know, striving to be recognized, to be better, to make some money from it, et cetera Almost like the starving artist myth.
• 56:16
  Matt Jacob: If so, starving artist label being part of your struggle, and if so, is that something that you're kind of reveling in?
• 56:36
  Jake Paul Smith: I think there's something very romantic about it.
• 56:39
  Jake Paul Smith: I have, I have, friends that I think depict that identity, you know, and, uh, almost enjoy it maybe.
• 56:49
  Jake Paul Smith: Maybe they revel in that identity.
• 56:51
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, they really kind of they want that to be part of that journey.
• 56:54
  Jake Paul Smith: And I see these type of people and I do like, when I can like talk to other people, I kind of call them real artists.
• 57:00
  Jake Paul Smith: I do see them like that's how we like in, like in the media.
• 57:04
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, that's kind of how we see these people and, um, I think there's some beauty in it and there's just such a great dedication to, to the craft.
• 57:13
  Jake Paul Smith: But it's definitely it's not been my journey and I it's definitely not, uh, essential, that's for sure, um, but I really admire that and I think it's the same admiration of people that are able to do it at such an early age.
• 57:27
  Jake Paul Smith: Like I said, I wasn't able to.
• 57:28
  Jake Paul Smith: I had to go and build some other things to get me to where I was, um, I think it's that.
• 57:33
  Jake Paul Smith: I think that's the same person.
• 57:34
  Jake Paul Smith: You know they're so committed to that craft, um, and they give up.
• 57:39
  Jake Paul Smith: You know there's great sacrifice.
• 57:41
  Jake Paul Smith: I feel like sometimes that sacrifice might be happening, like just to be a part of that brand.
• 57:46
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, I think that is possible.
• 57:48
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, but yeah, not my, not my journey.
• 57:52
  Jake Paul Smith: Luckily, I've got a variety of other things that help support me financially, but I really believe they've supported me like emotionally or it's like a complete person, to get me to where I am now, to produce the work that I'm producing.
• 58:04
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, so I feel really like proud proud is actually a really good word I feel very proud to have got to where I am and I'm very excited to see where I can take it with the kind of the more 360 understanding of what it takes to build a business, not just to build art, you know, I mean that's a big shift for me and I keep like, the more I delve into this rabbit hole of, like, the world of art, it's like, it's like it's very eye-opening oh, my goodness, yeah, it really is.
• 58:35
  Matt Jacob: Um, we wish you all the best.
• 58:37
  Matt Jacob: What is the?
• 58:38
  Matt Jacob: What does the market look like?
• 58:41
  Matt Jacob: I should say sec, niche or sector of the market in terms of painter painting, and then sub niche into your style or genre, however you would essentially label your style.
• 58:53
  Matt Jacob: What does that look like?
• 58:56
  Matt Jacob: Is there a lot of competition?
• 58:57
  Matt Jacob: Is there a lot of game playing?
• 58:59
  Matt Jacob: Is there a lot of strategy?
• 59:01
  Matt Jacob: I mean there is in terms of business, but in terms of that art sector that you're in, tell me more about other players in in the market.
• 59:10
  Matt Jacob: Is it just constant, just battle all the time, or do we not know so much about it?
• 59:16
  Jake Paul Smith: we're still learning about it, I guess I'm definitely learning um, obviously predominantly what I'm seeing, that is through social media, um, which can one be daunting but also inspiring, um, I think there's this the way that I I see it from what I see so far.
• 59:38
  Jake Paul Smith: There's these like two categories.
• 59:39
  Jake Paul Smith: There's this world of like, yeah, social media online artists that you're able to produce, you know, a very successful, uh, you know income, and be supported by your following or, uh, following adjacent, you know, as that kind of scales out, um, and there's, it seems like maybe there's like a certain cap on on what you could charge.
• 1:00:01
  Jake Paul Smith: Maybe, let's just say, 10 grand for a for a painting, if I was going to just put a random number on it and then that would be the maximum that I think people start would would pay for a piece of artwork purely for its aesthetic it's like they love the person, they love the piece and they have some income to them have this beautiful thing in their home and then beyond that, it seems like then you're probably paying for some sort of investing component.
• 1:00:28
  Jake Paul Smith: So then they're buying into you, um, beyond just your skill.
• 1:00:32
  Jake Paul Smith: It's like like again you're coming down to that like hype around your name.
• 1:00:36
  Jake Paul Smith: You're kind of building your, your brand, so that be press or storytelling or a certain gallery, or sold to a certain person, and then really the, the, the scale of cost is infinite, which is again, I think, when I was younger seemed so out of reach and so like baffling like I just could.
• 1:00:57
  Jake Paul Smith: For me, and maybe people will relate to this, is the more it costs, the better it has to be.
• 1:01:03
  Jake Paul Smith: Surely that's that's how they must be.
• 1:01:06
  Jake Paul Smith: A better painter, there must be a better technique.
• 1:01:07
  Jake Paul Smith: It must be harder, it must take longer.
• 1:01:09
  Jake Paul Smith: There's these like because time is money, you know, all these kind of like traditional, um, what would I call it like constructs, but obviously quickly realizing that's not the case.
• 1:01:20
  Jake Paul Smith: There's a whole variety of other things that that are happening in the past, I would say a lot of time.
• 1:01:26
  Jake Paul Smith: It's an artist that's kind of, you know, shaken, shaken the culture.
• 1:01:33
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, there's been something that's been very iconic and a statement, and that's what's so cool about art.
• 1:01:39
  Jake Paul Smith: It's like, uh, it's a rebellion, you know, to to the norm, um, maybe to pop culture, or to society, or like a banksy or someone like that.
• 1:01:49
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, he's an arguably like a very modern version of that um.
• 1:01:53
  Jake Paul Smith: So, yeah, then you're.
• 1:01:56
  Jake Paul Smith: Then you're in this whole different category of producing.
• 1:01:59
  Jake Paul Smith: Uh, you know, you're scaling the value of your work outside of like, uh, just um, investing for, for home, but they're investing as as like a long-term potential, yeah, like an increase of value with your work.
• 1:02:14
  Jake Paul Smith: That's a whole other world that I haven't delved into, but I'd be excited to.
• 1:02:20
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, I'm really excited.
• 1:02:22
  Matt Jacob: Find a rich man who can commission you for 10 pieces.
• 1:02:24
  Jake Paul Smith: I mean that seems to be a regular story.
• 1:02:27
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, you find the right person that believes in you, and you might.
• 1:02:33
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, arguably, what's happening is if he can then pass off your pieces to other people, his pieces are going to scale in value, right?
• 1:02:40
  Jake Paul Smith: So there's.
• 1:02:41
  Jake Paul Smith: I mean, we saw it with like nfts.
• 1:02:43
  Jake Paul Smith: You know that it's very much a similar game, it's just not as physical and it can be scaled exponentially more because of the tangibility.
• 1:02:51
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, like the, it's so easy, but it's a similar game.
• 1:02:55
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, it's the same same thing.
• 1:02:57
  Jake Paul Smith: Um, so I think that would be an interesting thing to have to navigate in the future, uh, when I get there, because I imagine there's a whole abundance of of challenges that you'll have to confront, you know, with like authenticity and so forth.
• 1:03:11
  Matt Jacob: I can imagine that, that being difficult yeah, I don't know how that even works these days with paintings.
• 1:03:18
  Matt Jacob: You know you're gonna have some kind of unique.
• 1:03:20
  Matt Jacob: I don't know how they'd tell a real one from a fake one.
• 1:03:25
  Matt Jacob: You know if, if you became famous one day, then you're still producing the same artwork.
• 1:03:28
  Matt Jacob: And then I mean I don't, I'm so ignorant to that producing the same artwork, and then I mean I don't, I'm so ignorant to that part of the art market.
• 1:03:33
  Jake Paul Smith: But I mean there's there's multiple um documentaries on netflix of, uh, duplication of works and very famous people, uh, you know, made made a lot of money um, but yeah, altercation is something that is can be challenging, but there's a lot, of, a lot of people out there trying to combat that and doing the best job that they can.
• 1:03:52
  Jake Paul Smith: You know, um, yeah, predominantly through um.
• 1:03:55
  Jake Paul Smith: If they really go into detail, I think they're like they're scanning, like um, and understanding the pigment, the material, the layering, the canvas, the date of the canvas, so they can really like pull apart a lot of like the, the uniqueness of that dna yeah, exactly right, like I would.
• 1:04:13
  Jake Paul Smith: I would imagine as much as I do believe someone could quite easily copy my work, like, but I just don't think it would have.
• 1:04:21
  Jake Paul Smith: Uh, I think there is like a, a richness one, through just myself pouring into it.
• 1:04:29
  Jake Paul Smith: I think that's a component to the material.
• 1:04:31
  Jake Paul Smith: Uh, and the, and the process you know.
• 1:04:34
  Jake Paul Smith: But if someone didn't know any of that and just try to duplicate it visually, I think from, at least from afar, it would be close.
• 1:04:39
  Jake Paul Smith: You know what I mean.
• 1:04:40
  Jake Paul Smith: But let's say they had to go through like some sort of dna extraction, it would be then very obvious that it would be very different.
• 1:04:47
  Jake Paul Smith: So much stuff in mind.
• 1:04:48
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a dinner, it's like a mixing pot.
• 1:04:51
  Jake Paul Smith: Yeah, yeah, like, when you like, I like to add, like, like ingredients.
• 1:04:56
  Jake Paul Smith: But my materials to my art, you know, when it's shown, most of the time you'll see like acrylic and oil on canvas.
• 1:05:01
  Jake Paul Smith: Mine's like a list and some people just write mixed media.
• 1:05:05
  Jake Paul Smith: But for me the, the material is such a highlight of the work, you know, it's a, it's such a core component of what I'm doing so.
• 1:05:13
  Matt Jacob: I like to, I like to mention that that really is the unique part of your work and, um, yeah, hopefully I will own a piece one day, but it's been, it's been such a pleasure talking to, well, the real and authentic.
• 1:05:25
  Matt Jacob: Um, jake Paul White, when I think I first saw your profile, I just saw Jake Paul.
• 1:05:31
  Matt Jacob: I think, for some reason, jake Paul it's like the Jake Paul as in.
• 1:05:36
  Jake Paul Smith: Jake he's transitioned.
• 1:05:37
  Jake Paul Smith: Anyway, pleasure to meet you Good luck to you, white fam.
• 1:05:41
  Matt Jacob: Thank you so much for joining us on the show.
• 1:05:42
  Matt Jacob: Of course, thank you, take care, yeah yeah do you know?
• 1:05:59
  Matt Jacob: So how do you validate success now, or does that not come into your vocabulary?
• 1:06:04
  Matt Jacob: Does that not come into your vocabulary?
• 1:06:07
  Matt Jacob: Why can't I say the word vocabulary?
• 1:06:09
  Matt Jacob: Does that not come into your vocabulary at all?