Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 835: Attack Of The Screw Worms

Transcript

Ep. 835: Attack Of The Screw Worms · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underware. Listening toast, you
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything brought to you by first Light. When
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds,
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  Speaker 1: no compromise, gear that keeps me in the field longer,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: no shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out at
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: first light dot com. That's f I R S T
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: L I T E dot com. Join today by Caleb Hubbard,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the veterinarian entomologist of the Hubbard Entomology Lab at New
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Mexico State University. We're here to talk about the screwroom
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Can we call it an epidemic pandemic? How it's gonna
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: kill everybody? No, No, I don't.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
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  Speaker 1: I like make it seem good, like make it seem vital.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the things is that I'm
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: trying not to cause panic. They think that that's kind
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: of the biggest thing, But it is a kind of
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: a big problem. So the screwroom fly is this parasitic
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: fly that feeds on living flesh. The US had done
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: a really good job of pushing it out of the
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: United States, out of Mexico down to Panama. We've kind
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: of been holding it there for the last twenty or
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: so years, but since twenty twenty three we've essentially had
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: cases of it that have been occurring. There's been fifteen
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: thousand or so cases in Mexico, and as of November
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: of this year, there was a case sixty miles from
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: the US border. So it's a it's come in to
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: a cow near you, correct, Yeah, And if you look
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: on the USDA's APHIS website, they say it's not a
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: concern of getting into the US, but we do have
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: cases that are close and so it's something that getting
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: the information out there is kind of the biggest thing
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what I've read about in the news, they make
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: it seem like, you know, when we reached out wanting
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: to get someone about screw worms. Reading about in the news,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: it's like moving at an alarming rate. Yeah, come to
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: a cown near you.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very much so, or a cow or any wildlife
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: or humans or Fido, your dog. So uh, it'll pretty
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: much feed on on any vertebrate, they say, even birds,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: But for the most part, it's gonna be your you know,
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: your larger animals. Uh, your companion, animals, things like that.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, okay, we're gonna dig in on that
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: that this is, this is, this is good in a veterinarian.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: That's just so folks knowing entomology explain what an entomologist is.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So an entomologist is someone that that studies
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: insects or bugs in different ways. Yeah, My backgrounds veterinary entomology,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: So that means that I work with really all the
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: all the pests that cause disease or you know, are
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: are problematic in animal and animals. Traditionally we're working with
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: you know, livestock, so cattle, pultry, things like that. But
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I'm actually a at New Mexico's I'm hired as an
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: urban entomologist. So that's all the creepy crawleys that kind
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: of bother you in around your home. So if that's bedbugs, cockroaches, scorpions,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: anything like that. But I justify also that something like
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: screwworm or or my background is in flies. You know,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: no one likes flies in their house and so it's
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: kind of like, you know, any of that interaction with humans,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: and so that's where you know, I come in with
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: all this kind of screw worm stuff.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: But you got you got just thrown hardcore into the
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: screworm situation.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Though I would say that I got thrown into it,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: but I think I I initially volunteered and then was
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: kind of volunteered to kind of it is and and
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: it's kind of one of those things of making myself
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: kind of available to do whatever. You know, I'm new
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: to New Mexico. I just moved to New Mexico in August,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: and I don't know, I'm really enjoying the state overall.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: But I don't know where I heard this, or maybe
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  Speaker 3: I just came up with it. You know, New Mexico's
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: number one at being last at everything if it kind
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: of kind of comes to education, it comes to you know,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: a lot of things like that.
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  Speaker 1: He's not ingratiating himself.
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  Speaker 3: No, So, but here's my thing is that my goal
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: here is to make New Mexico not that when it
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: comes to screwer, is that we should be prepared, that
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  Speaker 3: we should be able to be uh, you know, be
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: able to get this information out there, especially to you
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  Speaker 3: know a group of people that aren't being reached out
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  Speaker 3: to hunters and outdoors men in general, and so My
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  Speaker 3: goal with communicating all of this is to situate New
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  Speaker 3: Mexico and in a place that we can be prepared
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  Speaker 3: because we don't have the finances like Texas does. We
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: don't have kind of the resources that our neighbors do.
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  Speaker 3: And so it's you know, getting all of this information
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  Speaker 3: out there because you know, I'm only one person, and
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: so New Mexico obviously is a huge state, and we
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: have a lot of economic activity when it comes to
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  Speaker 3: hunting and outdoors, and so it's reaching out to all
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: of those people and kind of I can't do it alone,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: and so that's kind of my my goal here is
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: to make New Mexico uh into a state that we
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: can made an example for everybody else.
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  Speaker 1: All Right, so we're gonna dig into heavy on screw worms,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: but first we got to talk about a couple things this.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: So first, Doug, give me your hand, pill zoom in
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: on this right.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I lost you're asking.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I was at I was at the Sheep Show, okay,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Wild Sheep Foundation Convention, Deal trade show, and I'm doing
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: this little things, signing books, taking pictures and whatnot. And
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: these dudes come up and I'd seen him around because
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: they're all dressed up like gunfighters.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Spurs, and you notice that kind of thing, all.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Dressed up like wild West gun first with this gals
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: carrying a stuffed raccoon around costumes. Pretty soon I take
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: note that they're in line to come up and chat.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: This gentleman explains what they do is they're the people
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: that put on at a ghost town. See, they have
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: their own Virginia City down there. Like we have a
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Virginia City, we have a ghost town. They have one too,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: So he says Virginia City and I'm thinking ours, but
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: he means theirs. Explains that they're the people that do
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the gun They put on like the gunfight, the wild
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: West gunfight, and they happen to show up in their reactors, reenactors, reenactors.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: So he hands me this, gives me his business card,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and I lose it. So this I think, I think
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: that he invented this. If you want, I lost his
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: damn business card. But he's a gunfighter in Virginia City, Nevada,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: and he runs around at in Reno and he dresses
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: up like a gunfighter. I think that people can prove
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: me wrong. I think he invented this. I'm holding the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: weasel here. Hold out your arm.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: Now, dog, it's a slapak.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Do it again. Here's a pine squirrel.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: The other arm was good.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Now, I think he.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: Invented that we need to have it sound here just
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: for the for the audio audience. Put it near the mic.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: If he invented that, he deserves a Nobel prize and
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: talks army.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: Dude.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: My daughter is going to lose her mind when she
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: sees that.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I wondered why I was here. Now, I know, what
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: do you think of that? I don't know. I think
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: it looks good on me.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: These are slap These are tube skinned. We got a
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: tube skinned ermine, a tube skinned pine squirrel converted into
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: slap bracelets. I think I met the inventor. But you
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: can never trust a reenactor. Do you know what I'm saying?
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: When was the last time? Tell me when was the
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: last time a ren actor? Because because it's they, they
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: inherently are living a lot.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I know a couple of those guys.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: You can't trust for me, you an actor?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I trust my job guys.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I'm joking mostly, Okay, dougs here, So I did that. Oh,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: a couple of announcements to make in three days. Okay,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be at I was just talking about being
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: at the Wild Sheep Show, The Sheep Show, Wild Cheap
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Foundation Show. If you on YouTube watched are or wherever
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you watch stuff are Tanzania Hunts. The guy I was
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: hunting in Tanzania with is Morgan Potter. He's the professional
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: hunter I was with. Great guy, very funny, very smart,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: great guy. He and I are doing a talk at
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Safari Club International in in Nashville, Tennessee. So Safari Club
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: International has like a convention I don't know they call yeah,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I think they call it a convention. The SCI Show.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Morgan and I are going to do a talk about
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: our experiences kind of like from the perspective of someone
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: that doesn't know anything, like an idiot like me, an
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Africa idiot and an Africa expert, and we're going to
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: give a lecture at Safari Club on February nineteenth. We're
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: not all the money, so you gotta get a ticket,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: but all the money goes to SCI. So what you
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: gotta do is you gotta go on SCI's website and
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you got to get like you become a member and
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: that allows you to go to the show and then
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: you'll see you can get a ticket to come to
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: our talk again doesn't go to Meeta Morgan. All the
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: money goes to sci It's a nonprofit hunting rights some
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: conservation work organization. Check that out. So also more news.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Mediator podcast is going to two times weekly starting March ninth,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: somewhat crimswording, somewhat replacing Radio Live. We're gonna have you
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: going to the interview show, which is like right now
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: we're fixing to talk to this veterinarian entomology just well,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: you know how I want you to turn me onto.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Do you have any colleagues who are forensic entomologists to
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: study like how to tell how long a guy's body's
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: been laying there? Yeah?
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting field. There's only a couple of
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: people that do forensic entomology. We did some forensic entomology,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: uh where I did my PhD. My PhD advisor developed
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: a class and kind of did some of that. But
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: there's really only you know, five or six people that
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: kind of do it as a career. There's one guy
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: at Texas A and M Jeff Tomberlin who kind of
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: is one of the forensic entomology people. He's actually doing
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: some stuff with poaching in Africa and yeah, yeah, and
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: so I am yeah, actually I have a call with
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: him tomorrow, can you yeah, yeah, wheels a little bit
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: for me, absolutely right.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, you don't know any neanderthal experts to you.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, Now.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: What was I getting at? Oh, we're splitting the show.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna have the regular interview show like we
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: have now that we're gonna have a news show. So
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: we're having a news and commentary show which will come
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: out every week very close to it being recorded. Okay,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: in the news and commentary show will allow us to
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: we're going to be doing it's the same crew from
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Radio Live, but we're going to be much of the
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: same individuals from Radio Live, but it's not beholden to
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: a certain place in time, and it's going to be
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: new current events dominated by current events. So you'll be
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: able to get up to date news and commentary at
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: the news show. So two drops per week. The energy
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that goes into Radio Live will transfer over to the
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: news and commentary show that all starts March ninth. We're
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: also fixing up a brand new studio, so you'll see
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that there's like a new studio area too. In connection
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: to all this, got a correction really quick, srst, before
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: you get into this. Can we get cell phones out
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the table? We're getting a little bit of fuzz.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Oh sorry, thank you.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Now you're getting I should have warned you before. Oh
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: where's the correction that I said? It was kind of
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: dumb because it wasn't a good correction. Oh here, let
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: me find where'd that go?
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: Let me find that. I didn't put that in?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Why not? I said, I want to talk about it,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: but it's done forgot to do that.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Uh something about the wolf.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: No, here's a cruestion. It was Colorado Wolf Recovery Goals
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: episode eight twenty. Correction. Okay, right for this. He even
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: tells me that I can feel free to fact check this,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and it's it's like a it's like a sword of corraction.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: He says. At the end of the episode, you guys
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: were discussing Colorado's wolf reintroduction episode the end of episode
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: eight twenty, and Steve mentioned that c p w's Colorado
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Parks and Wildlife's goal for wolves is thirty to fifty.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: He says this is only partially true. Okay, but he's right.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: This is a This is a correction. The reintroduction goal
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: in Colorado to re is the reintroduction goal is to
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: put to reintroduce thirty to fifty, not to establish a
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: population of thirty to fifty. The goal is to cut
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: thirty to fifty loose. Okay, that's not the stated recovery goal.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: He goes on, This is me quoting him. In fact,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: there is no official number for a desired population in
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: the finalized plan for a recovery goal. However, there are
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: only guidelines for down listing from the state endangered species list. Okay,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: if they have at least fifty wolves for four years,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: they can down list to state threatened status. If they
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: maintain a population of at least one hundred and fifty
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: wolves for two years, they will dlist from this state
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: endangered species list. He goes on to say, I was
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: saying that, and I stand by this. I was saying
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: in Colorado, unless sixty percent of the people in Colorado
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: move away and those are replaced by Utahns and the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Vadins or something, those are replaced by a different, a
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: different strain of human, you will never see a hunting
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: season for wolves in Colorado. I stand by that. I
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: gave that as a piece of opinion. He says, though,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: once the wolf is delisted in Colorado, so that once
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: they hit that one hundred and fifty wolves for two years,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: he says, there is supposed to be and I'm quoting here,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: consideration for making wolves a game species. But he goes
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: on to say, and this is a wildlife professional. I
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: don't want to give his name. This is a state
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: wildlife professional. The road descent. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna. What do you call that nowadays?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Dox them? Dox them?
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I dox his brother, he says. But if
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: we've learned anything from wolf policy in the past, there
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: will be much litigation and hogwash to prevent management of
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: wolves by hunting. So even though the stated number is
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: a bit higher than Steve said, and there is in
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: fact a provision in the plan to consider reclassification to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: a game species, it does seem likely that the wolf
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: population will continue to increase significantly with no clear final
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: goal having been set. Here's a correction from Florida. That
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: that is that is that that that's a great that's
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: the kind of see. Pretty soon we're gonna start a
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: correction of the Week contest.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that one.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: That guy could have. He was a winner. He was
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: a winner.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: It was all my bad because I put it in
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: the notes kind of not not clearly. What did me
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: when I put the thirty to fifty goal? I put
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: it under like, yeah, I'd put it on board. No, well,
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: I'm that's that's that's part of it. But the guy's right,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: so it's it's that's good. He I mean, there are
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: probably people in the audience saying no, no, no, no,
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: it's and they're right. You guys are all right.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Where was I Florida? Okay, here's a correction that would
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: not win. Oh, we need to get we need like
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: a new Do we have our own email address for
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: the podcast?
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: What is it called the meat Eater podcast at the
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: meadeater dot com.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Where do those go?
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Uh? They all filter mainly to our community manager.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: But do we get all of those? We get all
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of them? Okay?
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: Oh no, I asked him to filter stuff.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Well don't I don't know that he knows what I
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: think is interesting? Do you know what I'm saying? Like
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: what is the risk? Like the risk would be because
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: my wife doesn't think what I think is interesting is interesting?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: I've asked him to cast a wide knit and see
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: and for me a bunch of different, funky, weird things.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: I think. I think. I think he knows.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Because out of every ten things that I think is interesting,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I tell my wife, she finds nine not interesting. You
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: can't trust not equating him to my wife. I'm just saying,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: like you know, no two people are the same.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: That's true.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Here's a not winner. This guy, in fact, with the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: opposite of win correction of the week.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: You're going to correct his correction.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I am he His correction is titled misrepresenting opposition to
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the Florida bear hunt. I enjoy, He goes on, I
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: enjoy your show. Compliment Sandwich, I enjoy your show, but
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: feel the need to offer you a new perspective on
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: a story you recently reported on. As a resident of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: rural Florida, I'm surrounded by the controversy surrounding our state's
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: recent black bear hunt. While you presented thoughtful views on
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the battle between those who support and depose bear hunting
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: in Florida, I feel you overlooked an important concept in
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: the argument. He goes on, Though I don't bear hunt
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I'm a lifelong hunter and angler. In addition, my professional
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: training is in fish and wildlife management, and my previous
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: career had me frequently collaborating with wildlife managers nationwide. In addition,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I currently work at an environmentally focused nonprofit. So I
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: rub elbow with a diverse group of outdoor minded individuals,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: he could win a composition.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this sounds like Midwest passive aggressive to me.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Well, if he was going toe to toe with most
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: of the people that write us a letter, he would
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: win a composition award, not the hack like I like.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I prefer like when it looks like ee. Cummings wrote
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: in yeah you know, while you report, did I say
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: that already? Oh okay? He goes on, while your reporting
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: included key details behind the quote animal rights folks opposing
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the bear hunt, It left out a glaring reason why
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: so many Floridians oppose it. In general, the hunt is
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: being broadcast as an example of animal populations outgrowing their habitat,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: when in most case it's actually a case of habitat
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: being reduced around the animals. He goes on, see Doug Dougs,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Doug does nowhere It's gonna fall.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I read it but now I've forgotten everything.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: He doesn't know if he's going to agree with him
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: or not. Well, that's just gonna pit me against Doug.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: He goes on about this. Outsiders have certainly heard of
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the development happening all across central Florida. But believe me,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: unless you have lived it, you have no way to
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: comprehend the complete eradication of fish and wildlife habitat occurring
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: daily throughout this state. He goes on, Florida's development friendly
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: building codes allow for thousands of acres to be cleared
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and developed at an incredible pace. Make no mistake, this
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: is no way environmentally sensible development. This is clear cut,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: corner to corner, bulldozed and compacted development seemingly everywhere. When
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: developers clear land in Florida, no wildlife is left nothing,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: not a bug, a bird, and certainly not a bear.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I don't agree. I don't disagree with any of this.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: He hasn't gotten to the park.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I'm waiting.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: He hasn't gotten to the correction yet. He's just laying
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the groundwork. Here's the clincher. Here's where he brings a home.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Bear habitat is being removed at an unheard of pace
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: his words here. That's the majority of what's behind opposition
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: to the hunt. Floridians, hunters and anglers alike, view wildlife
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: policy in this state as a failure due to continued
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: declining habitat, the likes of which have never been seen
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: in the South. Many hunters I know oppose the bear
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: hunt for this very reason. It's viewed as a cop
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: out by the fish and wildlife managers and an excuse
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: for declining habitat. It's important this opposition to the hunt
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: is represented correctly because many of them are hunters themselves.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Here's why. Here's where you're no. No, if you still
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: hunt deer, and you still hunt turkeys, and you still fish,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: you're what you're saying isn't true. They're losing habitat too.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: So are you quitting all hunting out of protests for
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the state not getting a grip on development? How are you?
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: How are you saying? Oh, no, I oppose having a
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: bear season, but I support having a deer season. I
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: support having turkey season. Come on, you, just no, It's
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: just totally not true unless this guy writes in. If
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: he writes in and says to me, oh no, here's
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: a crack to your correction, to my correction, and it's
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: that I have quit all hunting, I boycott any kind
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: of hunting and fishing in Florida out of a protest
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: to rampant development in Florida. Then I'll say, Okay, I
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: believe you, but there's no way that's true. You're not.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: It's like you're not willing intellectually, you're sort of holding
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: out that a bear is somehow different than a state
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: managed game animal because of your perceptions.
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: He's there. The animals are dealing with loss of habitat.
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: You have well, right, and so you have more animals
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: competing or on less habitat. Consequently, you have overpopulation.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: You know why. He's also wrong. He's also wrong because
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the the the total number of bears. If what he
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: was saying was true, you would be I mean, it
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: is true, I'm not the development Like, Yeah, development in
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Florida is out of control from an environmental conservation standpoint,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: it's in rough shape. The state is in rough shape,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: developments out of control. But that is not what the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: bears like. Right now, that is not what the bears
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: are like. Bear numbers in Florida are growing. Bear numbers
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: in Florida are yeah, bear numbers In Florida bear numbers
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: are black bear numbers. In general, around the country, bears
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: are moving into new places regionally, like they're moving in
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: new places locally, and they're moving into new places more broadly.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: So they're pretty adaptive.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: It's taking them one hundred and fifty years to figure
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: out how to deal with people, but they're figuring it out.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: And like he's just mixing up two things another one.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: This is a little more science. You might like this one.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: We'll get to the whole screw room thing. Don't worry dude.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Alan Lazara, who's come on before. He's an er doctor.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: He's an er doctor and he's been on the show.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: He has a particular focus and done a lot of
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: work in tree stand injuries. Very interesting guy. He wrote
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: in there's this new treatment coming out for frost bitten
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: hands and feet. The reason I'm bringing this up because
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: people that like to cook wild game, I mean cooks
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: in general, but a lot of my buddies who are
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: avid wild game cooks use soouved machines souvid wands to
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: hold water at a very specific temperature. Right, Like, if
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: you're trying to hold. If I told you, hey, put
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: water on your stove and hold a pot of water
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: on your stove at one hundred and thirty nine degrees
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: for three days, You're not gonna do that. If you
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: put a SOUVD apparatus in a pot of water and
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: you set it at thirty nine degrees for three days,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that son of a bitch is gonna be thirty nine
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: degrees for three days. One hundred and thirty nine degrees
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: for three days. There's some new stuff, and it just
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: was published in the Academy the Academic Emergency Medicine Journal
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: about seemingly having great luck rewarming frozen body parts and
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: SOUV baths because you can get the perfect temperature and
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: hold it and hold it. Because anyone that's ever frozen
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: your fingers you stick them in hot water. That is
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: not the way to go painful. So he's pointing out
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: like he's not Doctor Dozara is not suggested a disclaimer,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: but okay, this is from his This is from the journal.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Rewarming frost bitten tissue with skinn to skin, top contact
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: or warm water. Okay. Treatment includes removing the person from
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: the cold environment and rewarming frost bitten tissue with skinned
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to skin contact or warm water immersion. Okay, rubbing no good.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Typically in the emergency department or field, this is accomplished
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: with a warm water bath that is frequently exchanged to
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: target a warm to target a water temperature.
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: Some bitch, you put it in sad because you have
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: to exchange because it's you're not holding the temperature.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: No, no, check this out. You're trying. They'll, they'll, they're, they're, they're,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: they're trying to get water at ninety eight six. I
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: didn't know this.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Makes sense.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: So you freeze your hand, you freeze your fingers. The
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: medical treatment would be to try to get water at
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: ninety eight six. Stick your hand in there. And then
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: he says, they're constantly swapping it out with new water.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: But there's a dry heat. No good. Like holding it
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: to a fire not advisable, Rubbing it not advisable. Skinned
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: the skin contact or a water bath at ninety eight six,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: He says, typically in an emergency room setting, you're swapping
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: out the water, swapping out the water, swapping out the water.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Uh here, set your sue v'd at ninety eight six.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Just in the winter, turn it on, put it in
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah, every time you freeze your fingers come in,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: dunk them in there.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: It sounds like a big whirlpool to me. Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: It kind of reminds me of Star Wars Luke Skywalker,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: you know, he was on Hoff and they.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Stopped him wicked back to tank.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, there you go. And it seems like, you know,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: they're just taking it from Star Wars. I'm sure these
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: scientists were.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were. They were hot on the seux vied
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: for anybody else was yeah, here's a quick comment, and
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: then then we're all then we're all in on screwworms.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Speaking of doctor Lazarre, a guy just wrote in that
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: he was listening way back into the into the deep cuts.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: He was back in the episode one with doctor Alan Lazara,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: and episode one is called Bleeding Out with Doctor Allen Lazara.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: In it, we had a discussion about blue gills biting
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: men's nipples. I remember this, This guy rode in from Michigan.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: He actually calls them blue gails.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I wondered if that was a spelling error when I
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: was reading the notes.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: And Brody said, do people in Michigan call him blue Gails?
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I think they kind of a little
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: bit do. But you'd also call him a gill. But
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: there is a little bit of a blue gail. No
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: blue gills, No, I can't think of that. I get
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: what he's getting at, but I think it's a pretty
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: clean blue gill. Yep, bluegill, or you'd say gills. This
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: guy has this to say. He says, almost every man
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that swam and my grandpa's pond has had this happen
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: to him. Me included. Is this a correction, No, it's
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: like an observation. Ye, he's a fabricous. He's a fabricator.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: It's a note. I'll critique it in the minute, but
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: first I'll take you the notice. He says the pond
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: was stocked only with bluegills, which were fed little fish
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: pellets by my grandparents. We attributed the nipple biting to
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: the similar appearance of these pellets to hard nipples and
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: cold water. We believe the fish would mistake the nipple
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: for a pellet and bite us. We would almost always
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: come out of the water looking like a marathon runner
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: who forgot to put tape on their nipples. This pond
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: brings it even tighter to home. This pund happens to
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: be just thirty minutes south of ann Arbor, where doctor
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Lazara was working. Lest you question the relevance, I don't know.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's it. I think I agree that
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: that's your assumption. But plenty of nipples have been bitten,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and plenty of ponds that aren't fed wild these are
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: wildfish biting nipples.
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: Body hair seems to attract them. Two, I've been bit
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: like on different parts of my body in those kinds
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: of ponds.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: With you've been skinny dipping and had your packer bit
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: No you.
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: Neither, Yeah, lucky you guys.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: All right, Okay, back to screwworms.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: It always comes around, always does.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: How long as screams are screams are progressing north through
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: as you explained, how long has there like, what is
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the sort of what is the early understanding of screw worms?
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: And how long have humans been talking about screw worms?
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: And where have they been talking about screworm.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's called primary screw worm or New World
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: screworm because it's a problem of the Americas. And so
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: the first kind of like true documented case was actually
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: in French Guyana in a penal colony. So in eighteen
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: fifty eight, the French kind of noted, oh, hey, yeah,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: we have these prisoners that are being eaten alive by something. Yeah, humans,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: we have no idea what it is, and so they
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: send in this guy Cockrell, who ended up like realizing
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: that they were fly maggots and kind of described it there,
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: and then it kind of went dormant for I guess
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: whatever that math would be sixty or seventy years. And
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: so then it was the nineteen thirties in the US
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: that we started documenting these cases where we were seeing
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: cattle that were being infested, and so pretty much since
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: about the thirties is kind of like when it's been
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: on our radar of being this big problem. And then
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: from the thirties to about the early nineteen seventies was
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: kind of the heyday of control. They developed this thing
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: called steril insect technique to get rid of the flies,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: and then since the seventies, at least in the US,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: we pushed it out and then kind of have had
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: to work with different different governments. So we worked with
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: the Mexican government to kind of build a facility to
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: release sterile flies to push it out of Mexico. And
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: then it was two thousand and one or two thousand
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: and two that we worked with the Panamanian government to
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: essentially our one sterile fly production facility is down in
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Panama and all of the flies are essentially going there
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: to be released to kind of control it from moving
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: northward essentially.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: And so normal magot people associate magots with eating undead.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Stuff, correct, Yeah.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: But this is a magot, little living Yeah, but why
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: won't Why does a normal magot? I'm sure there's many kinds. Yeah, yeah, no,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I heard disco rice. Why does a normal magot want?
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Why does he want dead stuff? Yeah?
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: So this is this is one thing that I tell
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: my students or anybody why questions are hard, right, because
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: it goes down to there's a why, and I can
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: tell you, you know, I don't necessarily know if we
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: completely know why one maggot is going to be specialized
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: for dead tissue. And and a lot of it does
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: have to do with you know, if you're thinking about
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: a normal maggot, that you would see they're not actually
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: feeding on the tissue. They're feeding on the bacteria, and
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: they're feeding on kind of all the gross decomposing material
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: that's there, and so that's what they're actually using. So
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: like I did my PhD working on house flies and
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: we're going to kind of create this what we called
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: larval media. It is essentially how we made new house flies.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: And really it's just a combination of you know, like
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: brand and alfalfa and yeast and kind of it smells
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: good until you put flies in it. But all we're
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: doing is creating a bacteria and yet soup essentially so
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: that the maggots can feed on that and so that
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know if we actually know like what exactly
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: it is, but.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: So they're after whatever else is going on, like like
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: what I keep calling a normal man. Yeah, they're after
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: whatever's going on from the decomposition process, not necessarily digesting
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: rotten protein.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, yeah, and they're doing they're doing a combination
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: of of all of that. But yeah, that what differentiates
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: them is is kind of it really has to do
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: just with that ones feeding on living tissue.
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: It's it's a fascinating thing that there's actually a therapy
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: it's called medical maggot therapy that they and there's a
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: there's a guy Ron Sherman, who was the first person
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: to get maggots. F FDA proved to put them into
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: wounds to actually clean out wounds. So you developed these mats,
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: So that's a it's Lucilius aricotta. It's just like a
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: common green blowfly that you would see. And they found
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: that again they're not feeding on living tissue. And there's
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: been some different studies that have shown that the maggots
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: are just as good as a doctor, right, or better
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: at cleaning up the edges of decomposing wounds.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Doesn't say much for you guys.
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: It's just as good as a doctor. Well, you know,
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: it's like lyrics coming out of this guy over here.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Well, you know it's one of those things like I
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: at least I'm a PhD and on MD, so I'm
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: just throwing shade at them.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: So it's okay, I gotcha. Uh, just I don't want
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: to stay too long on the normal kind of magots.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: But the more commonly available maggots, Yeah, in your local ditch,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: but in your local summertime ditch is you know, you
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: know the peculiar like as much of the stench you
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: just said, like you could make a maggot medium. What
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: was in the magot medium? You make.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So for for house flies, which isn't going to
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: be blowflies, that's a whole other thing, and we can
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: talk about that. The house fly stuff is brand alfalfa
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: yeast and dried milk. It smells okay, yeah, it smells
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: like you're bacon until you put flies in it, and then.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why do they? Why do why do the Like
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: when you look at a rotten thing laying there in
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: your mind, it's like, what you're smelling is the rot, yeah, right,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: But you put maggots on it, it creates its own stint.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'll be honest, I don't know if you're
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: traditional or run of the mill blowfly maggots are producing
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: this like terrible odor. That is one thing though about
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: primary screworm that there is a specific odor that comes
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: off of the larvae that attracts more flies to that
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: wound so that they will lay more eggs. But I
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: can't actually speak to what is what exactly that is.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: I think some of it, you know, if you're thinking
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: about it, is they're churning up all of those like
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: volatile things, right, So if.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: You have some of your case, the thing that smells
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: it baking until you put the maggots on it, So
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: what are they doing that's making it stink?
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so some of that just has to do with
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: the latter process that we're dealing with it. And so
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: pretty much the entire time that the maggots are in
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: their their little container, they're fine. What we do is
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: we take advantage of their biology. So when they're getting
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: ready to pupate or kind of form that chrysalis like
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: a butterfly wood, they look for a dark, dry place
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: to kind of hide out. And so what we do
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: is we say, hey, like the cracks and johnis is
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: old dog out exactly? Yeah, yeah is we say, hey,
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: we want to take advantage of this. So we dump
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: water on them and we say and we essentially force
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: them out of their container into a secondary container that
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: then we can just collect them all up and essentially
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: cleanly pick them up. So really what the odor is
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: is a combination of the maggots. Now we have rotting
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: material that had maggots in it, some of the maggots
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: have died and started decomposing. I've until that point you
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: end up not having a super terrible loader. I will
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: also say though, that like I'm pretty nose blind at
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: this point. I've been working with flies for over a decade,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: and anytime that I've had people come in, they're like,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: oh no, this is terrible. And I'm like, there's very
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: particular smells that I'm bothered by, but fly maggots is
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: not necessarily one of them.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I could probably go toe to toe with you.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Noah's blindness weird texting yesterday. There's this machine we're going
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: to talk about, the nasal Raider. You ever hear of
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: this now? Is that what it's called? Yeah, there's a way.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: There's a machine. I'm not kidding you. We're gonna have
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: We're gonna talk all about it coming up. If you
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: get let's say you're a municipal nasal ranger. Let's say
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: you get a stench complaint. This this is the craziest thing.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: There's a thing called the nasal Range. You can go
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: buy it. Someone calls and says, man, my neighbors whatever
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: they got going on, right, Yeah, stinks, hog farming, beetleworks,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: cleaning skulls, whatever you gotta complain, sewage. But it's sort
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: of like it's it's like a little bit subjective. Yeah,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Like I could go over there and be like, I
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: don't see what the problem is. My wife would go
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: over there and be like, good lord, that's a problem, right.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: So the nasal ranger you it's a machine you put
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: over your nose and there's a little meter that meters
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: that you're breathing fairly.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: You can't breathe too little, you can't breathe too much.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: So it's like you gotta breathe sucking on that sucker
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: in a way that is like holding the needle on
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: the right spot, so you're breathing like a normal person.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: It's the opposite of a breath lizer, and it's yeah.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, breath lizer. Yeah. Breath lizers like blow blow,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: and you're like.
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: Body, okay, guy, like a guy who's experienced that.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: This is so old. I could tell it without hope
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I'll get him in trouble. I'm not gonna say who
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: it is. Did already say who it is?
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: No, I have a buddy, buddy.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: I have a buddy who claimed in the old days,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: long ago, he had claimed to developed a breathalyzer evading
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: breath technique. He felt that he was able to channel
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: secretly channel fresh air up through his nose feed the
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: breathalyzer without drawing into his inner self, Do you follow me?
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Went to some dead shows.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Without letting the air come in and find out what
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: all is going on inside of him?
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: Did he have like a separate diaphragm and lung cavity?
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: He was a breathing technique that they're gonna name the guy.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Why would that get him in trouble?
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: No, if he was saying, if he were to get
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: breathalyzed by a law enforcement officer, he was saying, can't
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: catch me because I have a way. I have a
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: way that they don't know I'm doing it. But I'm
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: funneling in gusts of fresh air and in my nose
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: straight out my mouth. It's like players that do the
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: circular breathing, you know, circular breathing, the nasal ranger. It
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: then puts a number to the stench. Okay, how does
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: it do that? I haven't finished the video yet.
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: Okay, based on your breathing, based on your particular breathing.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: It's like there's a woman that there's a whole video
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: where she's demonstrating how it works. You go to the
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: stinky area, she says, you can go stand I'm staying
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: five feet from the hog farm because the neighbor's fence
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: goes up to the hog farm. So I can stand
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: in the neighbor. I can stay in the yard. Put
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: my nasal ranger on, and the meter makes sure you're
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: breathing at a normal like what would be the normal
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: person's breathing. Meaning you can't go because that's not normal, right,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and you can't go like this for you people just listening,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I'm plugging my noise, yeah, because that's not normal. So
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: the nasal ranger makes you do a normal breath.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: It seems like it's a little superhero or something.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Nasal ranger.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: You do a normal breath and it's got these carbon
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: filters on it and whatnot, and it spits out a stench. Rank. Yeah. Interesting,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: it's fascinating.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, you were talking about forensic entomology before,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: and you know, traditionally we do think about it from this,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: you know, telling when you know, we call it kind
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: of the period of insect activity, not when when they died.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: But it's most of the forensic cases that people are
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: working on aren't body cases. They're they're working on cases
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: of lawsuits. And so they're hired by a legal team
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: of you know, someone my PhD advisor over the years
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: had worked on, Oh, poultry farm is being sued by
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: a you know, a group of homeowners and they're saying
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: poultry farms producing flies and smell. And so he's kind
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: of an expert witness and goes out there does trapping
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: and does all of this stuff, and so we think
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: about it from that case as you know this, that's
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: really what people that do forensic entomology will do a
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: lot of those cases or stored product pest things, or
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: you know, a home that is infested with termites. First
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: let's say, and you know, there was a negligent home
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: inspector that didn't actually look to see and so they'll
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: bring in someone and say, oh, no, this termitidn't infestation
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: has been here for ten years, so they did that.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Then there are the people that are testifying in court
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: on saying like, yes, we collected these maggots and we
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: can tell that they were two days old or whatever,
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: and so that means that the body was put here
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: on you know, June fourteenth or whatever.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but years ago, I was renting a house and
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: there was a base when I will supposed to utilize,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: but we would utilize it. So I was I was
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: down there all the time. I knew what was down there.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Down there is all kinds of cockroach killer boxes. One
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: day call him and I said, man, there's a bad
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: cockroach problem in our house. Oh, we've never seen that.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: And I couldn't be like, come on, I've been in
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: the base. I had to just take it. So we
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: got the magazine done dead stuff. The screworm hit me
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: with the life cycle of how a screworm works, like
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: he's I'm assuming he's got to have an entry point
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: like a wound.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And so so the female screworm fly, the
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: one that's gonna lay the eggs. They're looking for a
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: wound or an orifice of some kind. So you know,
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: you can think mouth nos, oh no, I anus full
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: of that. Those are kind of the places that we're
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: traditionally seeing them in cattle at least, and so they're
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: looking for those, but we and so they will lay
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: in those locations. But the bigger concern is a wound.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: And that wound could be anything from an animal that
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: you know, you run it through a shoot and it
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: you know, gets cut, or it could be a you know,
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: an antler that's fallen off, and so you have this
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: open kind of spot or oh really yeah, so anything
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: like that, and so of any of these locations that
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: could be open, the literature says kind of even something
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: like a tick bite location, something is enough. And so
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: they're attracted to these open wounds. Female comes in, dumps
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: a bunch of eggs. She'll lay that wound on that
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: little wound. Those eggs hatch in twelve to twenty four
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: hours they start. Then those maggots essentially they're super super small.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: You can't actually see them, or you can, but most
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: people if they were looking at an animal wouldn't be
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: able to see it. They start burrowing into the skin.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Not a big old disco rice style, no, no.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: So so initially they're like, I could see them, but
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: when we're talking to people, we generally say that they
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: probably would go undetected for two to three days and
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: so really yeah and so and so they're pretty soon
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: you would just look, yeah.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: At a distance and just see a festering wound.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and so and that's the whole thing, and so, uh,
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: the those maggots will hatch again. For some reason, the
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: larvae start producing this this odor that then draws in
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: more flies that will then lay more eggs.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: On that way.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's actually something that's really interesting. This scientist
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: John Welch, who's kind of dedicated his life for the
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: last sixty or so years doing this. In the mid nineties,
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: he actually trained a dog to detect uh screw them
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: kind of infestations. Yeah, and so yeah, so there's like
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: a little bit of work there. It's kind of a
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: fascinating thing. It's kind of like people will use dogs
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: to detect bed bugs and things like that as well.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, so then.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: Those larvae kind of continue to develop, they go through
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: what we call these larv in stars or larval stages.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: So that's like a five to seven day period and
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: so here, I don't know, this would be bad for
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: the audience, but so those would be uh yeah uh
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: so those would be maggots that are that would be
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: three three to four, three to four days old. Uh
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: and so yeah, and again so those are.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: These these are significant, Like it'd be the biggest one
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: in here just for people that are not watching but listening,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: The biggest one in here would be barely suitable as
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: ice fish and bait.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so those are probably three to four days old,
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: and so they'll kind of be in this wound for
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: five to seven days. During that time, again they're attracting
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: more and more adults that are laying eggs, and so
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: you can get all these different life stages. At that point,
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: they say, hey, we're ready to kind of become an
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: adult fly. So they crawl out of the wound and
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: into the soil where they didn't pew pat, so again
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: that chrysalist type of a thing that you'd have with
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: a butterfly. They hang out in that stage for you know,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: six d eight days and then they emerge kind of as adults.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: Depending on the temperature, you can kind of you know,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: it's a two to three week kind of total life cycle.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: But one thing is is that with an infested animal
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: like you can you can kill an infested animal in
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: five to seven days. And so it's and it's what
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: what is killing like if you ran.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Let's say we take a cow, a cow gets a
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: nick from barboar or pick give me, give me. The
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: most common reason you see on your on cattle was
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: the most common reason you'd see a cut on a cow.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: You know, barbour is a good one.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, it gets hung out in the barboar. Yeah, gets
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: a couple of cuts on it. Yep, the fly finds it. Yep,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: they get out it. It dies in two weeks. Yeah,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: yeah it could right. Yeah, you do an autopsy, someone
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: does an autopsy. Yep, they're like like what what what
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: actually killed it?
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of like with with anything right there.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: There could be a number of different things. So we
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: depending on where you were, you know, where that site was,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: and they burrow in, you know, you could be.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Eating they burrow.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: So that's that's part of the reason that the name
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: screworm exists is one the larvae have these ridges on
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: them that kind of look like a screw would. The
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: other thing is that they say they screw into the wound. Essentially,
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: they're burrowing their way through the cavity of the animal.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: And so I was thinking of somehow I was thinking
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: more of them like no, like on the surface, yeah,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: like the hide or something now and and and so
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: they go so they're going straight in even yeah, and
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: so they could be eating vital organs, they could be
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: doing anything like that.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: The other thing that we think about.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: But they could see they could get in there and
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: be like like eating lung.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So what happened, So we had a we had
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: an outbreak of screwworm in the Florida Keys in twenty sixteen.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: It's the last time that we had an outbreak in
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: the US, like, so yes and no, it was the
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: first time that we'd had an outbreak. We still don't
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: know where the flies came from. Like it's this whole
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: wild kind of thing of yes. Yeah, I'm not going
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: to say anything.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: That's called just that's called reckless. Yes, yes, very much.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: Like can we retrise that from the records?
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what it's just reckless. I don't
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: need some word, so.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Yes and no. So to answer your question, there are
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: incursions that occur all the time. But the thing is
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: is that in twenty twenty sixteen, we didn't have this
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: kind of like you know, this kind of infantry essentially
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: that was moving forward that's super close to the US.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: This was kind of like it popped up and then
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: we were able to wipe the boat in cattle No sop.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: It popped up in key Deer. And so what happened
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: is they threatened. Yeah, it's a threatening endangered species. And
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: so what ended up happening there is that they the people,
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: you know, they're essentially like pets down there, and and
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: so there are people kind of just like some people.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: But if you're listening and you're not familiar with key deer,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: keys deer key, dear not to me, he's taking with
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: coos deer. Correct. There's this little little teeny shit in
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: white tail that's like like they're cute, yeah, but he's
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: no more afraid of the water as a muskrat. I mean,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: they'll swim around. You should go check them out, like
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: a little teeny deer. But they're like nowadays, in the
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: old days you would call them subspecies. I think you'd
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: call them an eco type, an ego, a white tail
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: eco type down in the keys that there aren't many
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: that they get. You can't hunt them, they get hit
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: by cars. They haven't been hunting, so on the very tame.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: But it's like a but a species of concern for sure.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: They'll blink out yep.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: And so what ended up happening was it kind of
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: went undetected or unreported for a while, and then people
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: started noticing, Hey, why why is you know, my my
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: pet deer stumbling around. And what they ended up realizing
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: was when they checked out the first couple of animals
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: was that screworm had essentially gone laid eggs near the
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: antlers and had burrowed their way through the skull.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Of the animals.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: And we're eating the brains of the kid deer on
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: his pedical like the ailer base.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: You're kidding?
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I have some some wild photos that are
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: just kind of here.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Send them to Phil. Ok So Phil wants to see me.
• 53:44
  Speaker 5: You were talking about Let's say a Kyle got stuck
• 53:47
  Speaker 5: in some barbed wire and she got a cut on
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: her leg, and so that's a long ways from the
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: brain as opposed to a deer getting it in the
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: antler and it's going right into the brain.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: How long does.
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: That take to I mean, what what's that process?
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: So some of it is you. You potentially wouldn't have,
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: you know, complete migration in in that location. What would
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: be the best way for me to send the Oh
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: sorry that.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Uh, if you're on a fed with with Korean, you
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: can send them to her and then she can ford
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: him on it.
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: Okay, can I just give you because I don't I
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: don't I'm not connected with the internet or anything here. Okay, Yeah,
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: can I just give you my computer and you can
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: just send this PowerPoint over?
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so you know what we're thinking about doing.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: You got some good photos. Yeah, so we do this
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: calendar series we did, like fed Up Deer Stands.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, have one in my house?
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Oh you do. I don't want I'm getting out of
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: the calendar business, but we might do one last calendar
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: called aft Up Wildlife Diseases. Yeah, and it's just every
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: month that's a picture of a terrible wildlife disease. Yeah,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: and that's going to kind of close out the series
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: because no one will buy.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know, you're gonna have a bunch of intomologists
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: that want to buy.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: The problem is with the series is every year, like
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: people buy them a little bit. Yeah, a little bit
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: less all the time because calendar is fading out. But
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: to have a calendar that was so disgusting you follow me, Yeah,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: so disgusting that no one bought it, it would just
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: end the calendar.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: Maybe or it becomes really really popular.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Now it's gonna end it up wild Life Diseases. Yeah,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: that we'll put January. It can be screw worm.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it could be it could be screworm. You know,
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: it could be a blue tongue.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: It could be.
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: EHDVT calendar off like one slide.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just the calendar was called one ft up wildlife disease.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, but do we want to put this in
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: the video version?
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: But okay, it's gonna get some kind of warming.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: There's a question I wanted to ask you earlier that
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: can we back up to We got you so whacked
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: out now by the time we puictures drop, But it
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: was a question I want to ask you earlier. What
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: can you explain real quick? We have a thing like
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: like what are the you know, like a meat bee.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: We call him a meat bee. Yeah, let's say you're
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: cleaning fresh that you're cleaning fresh fish, okay, or you're
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: uning a burger on in your yard. The bee that
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: comes to that, his motivation is nothing like a fly, right.
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: Yes and no. You know, they're looking for a protein source.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: So depending on on what it is. So, there are things, uh,
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: there's a bunch of different species that could be wasps
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: that will feed on meat. There are things called vulture
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: bees actually that will feed on decomposing material and stuff
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: like that I had. I had a colleague in California
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: that did some work on them. So again they're looking
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: for a food source. So it's going to be a
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: similar thing.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Depending on looking to lay is like now I come
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: to a fresh fish, he's never looking, he's not looking
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: to eat the fish. Depending it depends on the fly.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: And so obviously you're gonna have some organisms that are
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: gonna you know, your blowflies are going to be looking
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: for a you know, a place to lay their eggs.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: But then some of your standard you know, run of
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: the mill near your house fly or something like that.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: It might be coming there to lay eggs, or it
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: could just be coming there to you know, defeed as well,
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: you know, and he might eat.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he might later come back and be like,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna lay my eggs on that it's rotten. Yeah, okay.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: And so again it's gonna be a That's the one
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: problem with with anything is that there's nuance in in
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: all of these and so you are going to have
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: some stuff with uh, you know, any of these blowflies
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: or a lot of the blowflies that are coming into
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: look for, you know, a place to lay their eggs,
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: and you will see that you know, we've done some
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: forensic work where you know, we're putting a dead pig
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: out in the environment and then collecting maggots and stuff
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: like that for our forensic entomology class. And you will
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: see you'll see blowflies that are showing up with and
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: you know, two minutes of us unloading it from a
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: truck and then they those guys are looking for a
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: place to uh light eggs. They're attracted to the you know,
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: the smell of death, the decomposition, everything like that. But
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: once the body cavity and everything like that opens up,
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: you're going to get egg lay. But you also are
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: just going to get them feeding on secretions and everything
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: like that that that exists there as well.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: So how many species of fly in the US? I
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: don't know how you guys would divide it up? Like
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: I know that you have like dip terrace, so you
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: have you know, little midges andnoseums and but like, but
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: how many species of fly are out there, like visible
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: clearly visible flies?
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if I could tell you a number, right,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: say that many? Yeah, yeah, And and again the diversity
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: of them, you know it, you know, it goes from
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: everything to a mosquito, which you know you could see, uh,
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: your horse flies right like so and and then you
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: have you know, no CM's your chilicoids or your lepticon ops.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: You know, these biting midges that are transmitting pathogens and
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: things like that. So yeah, it's just like dozens and dozens, yeah,
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: or thousands probably Yeah, no kid, Yeah and so and
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: again in the US, I couldn't tell you exactly. I'm
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: not someone that does fly systematics of kind of understanding
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: all the relatedness, but you know, yeah, there's there's a
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: ton of.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Them, perhaps thousands of feah. Okay, all right, So when
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: we got y'all screwed up with trying to get the pictures,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: you were laying out talking about the key key here. Yeah,
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: keys your key. I think it's key. I think it's
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: key key. Yeah, you're laying that out. We're talking about
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: the getting into the brain. And Doug was bringing up
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: let's say it. Let's say a cow gets a cut.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: On its hit leg, yeah or something. It's hip.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: No, there's no like you know, you can't. He's not
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: in the lungs, he's not in the brain.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so again, in those types of situations, you
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: probably it's just going to be invading that tissue there.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: It's not going to migrate and move. It's not like
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: it's targeting the brain or something like that. It's it's
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: just looking for an open an open wound. So wherever
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: that open wound is, and then that is essentially then
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: at that point going to be expanding out. So you're
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: just going to have this cavity that is forming. And
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: a lot of times what ends up happening is that
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: if it's not something where it's like complete consumption, it's
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: actually the you know, a secondary bacterial infection that ends
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: up being the problem. And so you know, just just
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: think of a sort of one of the fever exactly.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: And again, like what you'll see clinically in animals is
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: kind of you know, a lot of those standard like
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: failure to thrive symptoms that you would see, you know,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: drooping head, animals that are isolating, kind of a lot
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: of these things. You know, oh, a very specific odor
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: that's coming out of it, and then wounds that essentially
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: you know, might even look small on the surface, but
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: it's a deep cavity that that's going inwards. And again
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: all of that is just opening up for you know,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: secondary bacterial infection.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: So do they like horn flies, face flies, you know,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: stuff that I've dealt with death cattle? Do these are
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: they also attracted like eyes and nose and that they're
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: around the head all the time.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so so horn flies not as much. Sometimes
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: you sometimes you will see them in and around the head,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: you know, I guess that's where the you know, with
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: horn flies, but generally you've seen horn flies like on
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: the back of the animal and everythings like that. So yeah,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: these guys, they they will be because they're going to
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: be attracted to you know, the nose and the mouth
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: and and things like that. But it's really they're looking
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: for those kind of open wounds.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: So yeah, those are wounds. So it's a little bit different.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: I'm not face flies horn flies, but so that's different. Okay,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: what I'm the other thing, And I asked you about
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: this before being uh, it's been a weird question. But
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: I was a Catholic boy, you know, and and when when.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: You should want to talk about this here, Doug, let's
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: just talk.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: About this quickly. And I remember the nuns saying there
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: was a purpose for.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: Everything, right, Like, oh, okay, I thought were Yeah.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: And so the purpose of and you can and I've
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: always I thought about that. There's a lot of things
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 5: that you know, it didn't make sense to me then,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: but that always made sense to me, Like there's a
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 5: purpose for everything. Mosquitoes have a purpose, flies have a purpose,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 5: you know, Maggot's decomposed, decomposition, all of those sort of things.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: This is a very human centric perspective, right.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: But but what's the purpose? I mean, isn't it like
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: an evolution? There isn't there what's the purpose of this?
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's the thing that's It's funny, and you
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: posed this before, and it's you know, kind of most
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: of the time if you ask an entomologist or you
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: ask someone, it's like, oh, you know, should we just
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: get rid of all the mosquitos? They'll talk about ecosystem services,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: bats and whatever else that is he did, right.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: Well, what won't be the cost of getting rid of mosquito? Exactly?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: And and and someone can you can steal man in
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: argument kind of again this this USCA researcher John Welch
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: had he who has worked on this. He's like, my
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: goal is to get rid of them. He's like, I
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: don't see any purpose for them. He must God, yeah, yeah,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: very much.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: So.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: Uh And but he's he's worked his entire career.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: I remember seeing him talk after the key deer kind
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: of thing in the Florida Keys, and he was at
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: a conference and he broke down crying at how like
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: horrible it was just seeing these animals that, you know,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: they're collecting up, animals that are staggering around that they're
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: having to euthanize. And and again he's like, he's like,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: my goal is if I could, I would get rid
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: of them.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: So history, I mean just yeah, history has not been
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: kind to that sentiment. Correct, Yeah, but I want to
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: top So the key dere deal, we kind of we
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: didn't finish the story. Yeah, there's still there's not right now.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: A whole bunch of key deer killed by screwworms. Correct. Yeah,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: what happened?
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so back in the nineteen thirties. Oh we're just
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: in twenty sixty, yes, correct, correct. But what essentially happened,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: and this goes back to the thirties and the forties
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: and the fifties, how we eradicated it originally is that
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: these two USDA scientists came up with this idea called
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: steril insect technique, and pretty much it takes advantage of
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: the screwworm's biology. So what they figured out was that
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: female flies only mate once, and so if you can
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: produce a bunch of male flies and you can throw
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: them out in the environment, they'll meet up with a
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: female mate with her and since she only mates once
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: and she got the signal that she made it, she's
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: not ever going to produce viable offspring. And so what
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: they essentially did in twenty sixteen is they went in
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: and they did a bunch of sterile releases of flies,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: and they knock the population out and they completely eradicated
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: screwroom from Florida keys using this steril and sterilizing cobal
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: And it's essentially it's a radioactive cobalt that they're using,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: and they're irradiating flies.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: And some of it is like a process that I was,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: you know, we were we were kind of going through
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: this thing. But yeah, so they're producing down in Panama
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: currently about one hundred and ten million flies a week, yeah,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: radiating them, yeah, yeah, And so they're irradiating them to
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: the UH. And again they're using a radioactive isotope uh
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: and people are currently them just enough to kind of
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: kill as nuts. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and and so that's
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: that's what they're doing. And again, these two scientists, first
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: we were playing around trying to figure out like how
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: they could do it what they were doing. There was
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: some previous work that had shown that you could do
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: this in a in another fly species that they are like, hey,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: can we try it with screwer And they were able
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: to figure out, you know, it is it's kind of
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: like that fine line between uh, sterile flies and non steriflies.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: And over time they actually had they've had mistakes where
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: they didn't sterilize the flies appropriately. That happened down in Mexico.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so currently we only have this one sterile
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: fly facility. There was one in Mexico when we were
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: trying to eradicate it that they've now taken offline that
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: was producing five hundred million flies a week and so yeah,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: and so and again we're just flooding the environment with
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: these flies any to essentially be like, hey, we want
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: to find any female fly and so they can mate
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: and then we wipe them out.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: That way.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: It's a brilliant technique. It's just kind of like over
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: time with everything, right, it's this evolutionary adaptation of you know,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: over time, we've had our sterile flies that don't compete,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: and so then they've had to change the strain that
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: they've used. So they've gone and essentially collected new flies
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: colonize them. It's this whole kind of like fascinating process
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: that they're doing. But that's kind of been the game plan,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: and so that's what they did.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: Back into area where there's a blow up yep and
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: millions of sterile flies. U.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 6: Okay, we got what looks to be my dog on
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 6: the right. Yeah, well I got ask I'll tell you, yeah,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 6: we got.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I got a question. I got not not
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: a question, but their day. You're the perfect audience for this.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: You guys both are the perfect audience for this.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: They are.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Now I'm talking about Buddy Kevin Murphy. He's talking about
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: when he's a kid working on a working on a farm,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: and I said, what was your like, what were your
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: Responsibilities's talking about working on the farm and he's a
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: little kid, and he was talking about one of the
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: things they would do is he would work on the
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: They were experimenting with artificial insemination. They had a bull.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: There's nothing to do with worring fly. If you ever
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: heard this or not, this might be common practice. They
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: had a bull. They re routed this bullspecker. You follow me,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: So it was going off backward. Re routed his pecker surgically,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: had a vet come in flipped. They took out. There's
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: like a they took out. They took out like the packer.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: It's not a it's not a vaculum, but like the
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: rigid structure. Took it up, removed it to the point
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: where a guy was able to keep it, removed it
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: and re routed it. Then they would hang a giant
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: imagine a necklace that's like a ballpoint pen hanging on
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: his neck. Why but ink blotder hanging on his neck.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: You turn him out with the cows. He can tell
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: when a cow is and heat. Oh yeah, he jumps
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: up there, but he's been rerouted, so doesn't do anybody
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: any good, does him?
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: Give it?
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: Not the cow any good. But when he jumps up there,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: he ink blots her with his ink blotter. Then all
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: the kids gotta do is he looks out and there's
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: no a coyle of the ink blot on her. She
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: must be ripe.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: A.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of that?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: I had not.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 5: I was thinking, well, this must be a new way
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 5: of gathering. But makes nothing but sense if you're doing AI.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 5: I mean, old way is just let that bull out there.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: That's the that's the old way.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: So neither you guys ever heard of that?
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: No?
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: No, that's very interesting, man, very interesting. You can make
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: like a a movie about that.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we just stand and watch the colics and go, oh,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 5: she's ready, you know, I mean that was a daily,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 5: daily thing.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: I thought that was really something. So you releasing all
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: these flies? Yeah, millions? Now about this the process here
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: of putting the sterills out? Can you give me an estimate?
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: And maybe you can't take the key to your situation? Yeah,
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: so you're on big Poney or whatever, one of those keys,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: one of those keys. This is probably impossible say like,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: how many to be effective? Do you need to put
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: so many flies out that the majority of the flies
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: on the landscape are your doctored flies? Or will a
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: percent ultimately do it?
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: So I couldn't tell you what that number is actually
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: going to be. One thing that's actually interesting about them
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: is that they the flies exist in kind of a
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: relatively low adult number, like two to three hundred per
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: square mile type of a thing. Really, yeah, yeah, and
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: so it's one of the actually I just I just
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: learned this when I was in a Yeah. Yeah, and
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: so it was something that I recently learned when we
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: were when we were doing a workshop. And and so
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: again you're just you're just hammering that environment, and so yeah,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: maybe maybe there is I wouldn't even want to estimate
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: how many adult flies are in that environment. And again
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: you're just let's just just dump as many as we can.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: So the theoretically be that on a property on an island,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: on a whatever, that there could be just like as
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: low as like some number of hundreds of males. Yeah,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: but you could go there and be like, I'm gonna
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: put thousands.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and that would be the kind of the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: idea get overwhelmed their proof of concept with any of this.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: They actually when they were testing all of this, they
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: did it on the island of curse Ow to wipe
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: out the screwer and problems that were.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: There, and so they actually start taking the director. Yeah,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: it's I.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: Actually I couldn't tell you exactly where it is okay.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: And again they were using this as kind of this okay,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: well flies aren't moving in, so we can see what
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: we can do kind of in this situation.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not worried about new ones coming.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: And so.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: With this situation again, like in the Florida keys situation,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: I was just looking, they dumped one hundred and one
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: hundred and eighty eight million flies and and so yeah,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: it's over about a one month or a couple month period,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: and yeah, they're just hammering that environment is gone.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but dudes that are living there have to be
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: walking out and it's got to be like seems like
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: there's flies everywhere.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. That's something that I've I've asked some
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: people about is kind of like, well, if if we
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: get screwer them in the US, are people going to
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: be okay with this idea just because it because they
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: kind of will do two different things. And it's kind
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: of an interesting situation when we think about public's perception
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: of science in general, right, it's kind of changed over time.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: The way that they release these either is with ground
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: release chambers, where they essentially they're boxes that are full
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: of these pupie or they drop them from airplanes, and
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: so they release them out of airplanes, out of the
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: back of airdults. Yeah, the adults and so and then
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: they'll fall to the ground.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: And so new kind of cam trails.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: Well, and and you know, it's just they do that
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: in California for Mediterranean fruit fly. You know, they're releasing
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: you know, multiple hundred million flies a week in California
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: to control Mediterranean fruit fly. So it's it's something that's done.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: It's just not something that a lot of people know about.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: And so and also something that's really small versus you know, uh,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: you know, here's here's an adult fly. It's your standard
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: kind of blowfly size.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: So it's the same technique with the fruit flies.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, exactly, you're sterile flies, stale, stale, stable.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: If I saw that dude hanging around, no, I think
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: I would recognize him as not being a normal one.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: So and again electric blue, yeah, and so those are
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: One thing that's interesting is that they actually will change
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: color depending on what they feed on, which is kind
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: of a really strange thing. We have in the US though,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: a very closely related fly that looks nearly identical and
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: so it's kind of a challenge when it when it
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: comes down to it of differentiating them. You can do it,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: not that difficult if you look at it underneath the microscope.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: But you know, we have this secondary screw worm that
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: is common. It doesn't feed on living flesh, it doesn't
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: do anything like that, and so we end up kind
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: of that's one of the problems that you end up
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: running into is identifying them and putting out traps to
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: try and monitor for them. Is the attract that the
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: USDA has essentially developed also attracts all the blowflies because
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: it's essentially just a combination of a bunch of chemicals
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: that then mimic rotting flesh essentially.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: So no, when you go in like let's say you
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: go into a community agricultural community, Yeah, and you're like, hey,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: y'all got a you know, there's a there's a screw
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: worm outbreak and we're gonna we're gonna dump two hundred
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: million sterile flies. Yeah. How many days is it until
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: all those sterile flies are gone?
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I couldn't put a number uh on it.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: There.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: There is specific kind of criteria of when you can
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: call an area eradicated that they do so for an
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: area to be you know, free of now those bugs live,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: so an adult fly in the environment will live a
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: few weeks and and so and again it'll just continually
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: propagate and so what and that's part of the reason.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: But they can't because there's sterile you know, correct and so,
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: and that's what you are looking looking for. But there's
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: going to be some individuals that made it with a
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: you know, a non sterile fly. And so that's why
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: you kind of have to do these releases over and over.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: And while you're doing that, you're monitoring and looking for
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: if the flies you are collecting if they're sterile or
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: if they're not sterile. And so that's that's part of
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: the process as well. And so it's kind of a
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: continued release over time. It's not just like, you know,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: let's just drop all these flies this one time. You
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: want to continue to do it because you're going to
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: in essence miss some of them at some point.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: At some points, why is there and I know that
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: you know, the press will kind of they're like, I mean,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: it's a native way, but people will look and there's
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: a sensational quality to it. Okay, there's like flesh eating flies, right,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: there's a sensational quality to it. People are going to
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: read it. But from talking to you, it seems like
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: it's almost a non problem if it's so easily remedy, Like,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: is there a scenario in which you could get like
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: do you? Is there a scenario in which you could
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: go haywire to where you're not able to produce enough
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: to catch it.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: So that's part of the problem, is that, Yeah, the
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: USDA and kind of researchers in general have we've relied
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: on steril insect technique and that's been the whole focus
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: of everything like that. But we can't say that it's
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: a non problem because currently US doing steril releases isn't
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: controlling the problem.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Where is it not controlling the problem in Mexico?
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: That so, the thing is is that if steril releases
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: were controlling the issue, initially, it never would have moved
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: out of Panama, And so it moved out of Panama,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: and then since twenty twenty three it's been moving its
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: way up through Mexico, and so we're doing stero releases
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: in Mexico. And the big concern really when it comes
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: down to it, and again it's not a concern as
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: it is more of an infrastructure problem is that we
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: have one facility that's producing flies, you know, the Kopek
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: facility in Panama producing one hundred and ten million flies
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: a week, but if it gets into the US, we're
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: going to need five or six hundred million flies a week.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: And part of the problem is is that where we
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: now have to you know, it's like when you build
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: infrastructure for anything, is that we're at this point where,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: oh shit, if it gets here, this is a problem.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: But it's a two three year lag time to build
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: a facility to be able to produce flies, because this
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: isn't a oh hey, let's just bring in these flies.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: It has to be you have radiation. You you know,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: all of the security clearance and security kind of protocols
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: and safety that go into you know, having you know,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: nuclear radioactive elements in an area to irradiate flies is something.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: And then it's also the idea of well, we're now
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: bringing flies that aren't sterile into this environment. And one
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: thing as a researcher that's very challenging is that the
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: USDA has essentially said, hey, we're the one that are
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: doing this, We're we're working on this problem. And so
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: like no one in the US can bring flies to
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: do actual research here in the US because they don't
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: want it getting out. And so the USDA has kind
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: of put this this block on that, and I totally
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: understand they want to be able to control the situation.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: And it's been hey, you know, we have this thing
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: that works, no one needs to worry about it. But
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: now they're like, okay, let's do something. They just put
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: out a call for you know, they dedicated one hundred
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: million dollars to try to get researchers to apply to
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: try to do something, if it's extension, if it's outreach,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: if it's actually doing monitoring for things like that.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: But it but the only tool right now, the only
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: known tool to combat is the sterile.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: Correct and that's part of the concern is that that's
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: not working and that's where we put all We put
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: all our eggs in that one basket. And so now
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: it's what do we do. And the other thing is
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: is that back in the day, you know, I had
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: a couple of students.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I talked to them.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: They come from beef cattle background in New Mexico, and
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: they're like, oh, yeah, my grandparents talked about you know,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: during calving season because that's another place that you'll see
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: it as in the navel. And so during calving season
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: they would go out, they would they described it to
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: me as that purple stuff whatever it was of some
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: you know, organic phosphate or something like that that they
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: were applying, and it did great. The problem is that
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 3: all of those products have because we haven't had to
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: be a problem, they've all been taken off of EPA registry,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: they've been taken off of you know, FDA registry. So
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: currently we have two products that are under emergency use
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: that can be used in animals, and there is nothing
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: else that's developed or licensed to even treat animals with.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: And so it's a it's kind of this multi pronged approach.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: And then from the insecticide side to try to control them.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: No one's worked with screw them. And so on a label,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: if it doesn't say that you can use it on screworm,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: you can't use it on screworm. And so you have
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: to follow what the label says. So if it says
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: it's for hornflies and face flies and stable flies and
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: house flies, right, but if you end up using it
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: for screwerm, well you're now breaking the law, and so it's.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: A why is that, Like I know that on chemical compounds,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: when you get a patent on a chemical compound, you're
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: actually patenting the application. Yeah, and with with some of that, Yeah, okay,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: so who says you can't use it for the e
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: p A. So the e p A is so the UK,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: not the manufacturer patent holder.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: No, and so federal law correct, when they get that license,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: it will say on the label this is used for termite.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: So this is used for permitted exactly.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: And so that's the problem is that, you know, we
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: have lots of products that are probably effective, but again
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: none of us have been able to do the work.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 3: And there's you know, talking to my USCA colleagues, there's like, yeah, uh,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: there's a whole lot of work that we don't know,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: like even standard just like behavior stuff. You know a
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: lot of my work that that I do is insect
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: and animal behavior, and so it's you know, we don't
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: necessarily know how they move, how they're in or acting
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: like in because we kind of put all of our
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: eggs in this one basket. And also when we did
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: all this work, we did it all in South America,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: and so it. We have a very different climate, you know,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: in New Mexico, in southern New Mexico, in the tip
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: of Texas is as reservoirs, where you know, screwroom would
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: continually develop because it doesn't get cold enough during that
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: period of time. The rest of the US, you know, luckily,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: like here in Montana, if screwroom showed up, it might
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: be an issue during the summer, but it's going to
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: die out in the Yeah, it'll kill them in the winter.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: But that's the big problem with those southern states and
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: or you know, that's those southwestern states. And so there's
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of these different things that we don't know
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: that we're kind of like, all right, what do we
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: do now? And so it's kind of rushing to figure out,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: like what can we do? What can we not do?
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: And again we have to follow all of the you know,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: all of the laws that exist. And so if it's
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: if it's cattle or if it's you know, a big
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: concern is that it it's if it gets into wildlife,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: what do you do then just runs rampant?
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: Right? Has anybody drawn a line? Well, I'll explain what
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: I'm getting at through different thing. I had a body
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: mine that worked on a project years ago. They were
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: trying to draw a line at what could possibly be
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: the northward spread of the Burmese python. And it would
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: just be that you would put them in burrows, yeah,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: like and make enclosures, put them in burrows and then
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: see if they car alled it out in the spring
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: or not. Yeah, right, because that's the thing is like
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: at a point it's too cold, they can't over winter. Yeah,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: what what would be the line along the UA? Yeah,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: and have you guys really refined Yeah?
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: No, So so that's something that again, there a lot
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: of it is. It's funny up until maybe honestly, probably
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: the last year, there wasn't a whole lot of there's
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: like all the historical old work that was done. It
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: was really hard to find though. You know, even from
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: a teaching perspective, if we're trying to talk about screwerm,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: I'm like trying to pull images and stuff like this,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: and it's you know, I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: And so a lot of this stuff wasn't.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: Like old references or may not have exactly and.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: And some of that had to do with like the
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: USA is like it's down in Panama, Like, we don't
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: like the effort that we're going to put in to
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: prepare all of this new material. It isn't an issue
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: for us at this moment. So when it comes to
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: uh kind of the expansion, like there there were cases
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: that it potentially would get up to Canada and really though,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: you're going to see it kind of this centralized you know,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: up through up through Colorado. Uh Utah, Yeah, and so
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: and so you will see it in those locations. Again,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: it our biggest concern now at this point is livestock
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: movement because obviously we have animals that are that are
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: moving and they get shipped from you know, let's say
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: New Mexico and then they get shipped over to Colorado,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: or they get shipped in Montana or they you know,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: who knows, and then it's well, we imported a case
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: and so then it exists in this area and so
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: it may not stick around. But if you have an
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: impact where you know there. I know that back in
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: the thirties there was in one section of Texas, screwroom
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: killed one hundred and eighty eight thousand cows in one year.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: Are you serious?
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: And what timeframe was that?
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 6: Again?
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: That was in nineteen thirty three and one year three, Yeah,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: and so when when we first started seeing it, and
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: so yeah, and so it's a it is a big concern.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: And again it's it's that problem of stopping forward progress.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: And that's where you know, talking about this idea of
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: is it a concern? It is a concern because at
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: the moment we haven't been able to completely stop forward progress.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: And so it's you know, part of my whole thing
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: here is to be able to communicate because it it
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: isn't something of well, hopefully it doesn't ever come to
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: the US and I don't have to deal with it, right,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: but if it does, we need a whole lot of
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: people to be able to identify, oh, hey this looks weird. Hey,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: I can submit a sample to you know, to confirm
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: that that's what it is, and then we can you know,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 3: you know, the USDA has kind of put out their
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: their game plan on what they would do. It's like
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: quarantine in an area, so that you restrict animal movement
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: and things like that.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: For that the animals are going to be more likely
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: the animals are gonna be more likely to move it
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: long distances than the flies flying around.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, so so the literature says that like, these
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: flies can fly ten to fifteen miles. In practice, I
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 3: will will say, you know, it's the one thing that
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: science says and what happens practically, Like there's some studies
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: that show that house flies will fly twenty kilometers and
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: it's like one mark recapture study that someone did. It's like, no,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 3: they're going to fly you know, one hundred yards to
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: your your neighbor's farm, you know. And so the movement
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: doesn't exist. And again, like scroom has relatively narrow tolerances
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: for temperature. One thing that's interesting about them is they
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: won't fly over bodies of water. Oh really, yeah, they'll
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: fly along it so like a riparian area. But if
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: like the reason that we had we stopped the movement.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: Different again, so you know.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you about just be interesting too, and
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: it's kind of applicable man Like in and sort of
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: the immediate post nine to eleven era, I was working
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: on a magazine piece where I was at a a
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: I was at like a convention, what they called it
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: a stock detective convention that dealton livestock theft. And but
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: it had this whole biosecurity element to it. They had
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: found in Afghanistan when they're doing all their raids on
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: al Qaeda areas, they had found where they were like
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: swapping information about livestock diseases. Okay, like they were at
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: least exploring the idea of a biohazard lives. So this
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: guy was there and he presented and I sat in
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: on the presentation, and they ran models of say a
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: person went to a stockyard and I can't remember where
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: his stockyard was. I mean it was somewhere in the
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: central US, like Kansas or whatever. They're like, say a
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: terrorist went to a stockyard and they ran a scenario
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: where he swabbed the nose. He swabs a half dozen
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: cows at a stockyard with an anthrax form, and they
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: ran a model ye about its explosion, you know, and
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: it was like alarming, right, like movement of animals.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: That kind of makes me think of this where with
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: the thing in the keys, Like do you ever have
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: I don't want to give anybody ideas out there. I
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: don't know how many dudes listened to the show, but like,
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: has anybody ever brought this up that it could just
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: be like a a like an economic weapon.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and and and that's something that we see
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: with you know, it's a concern with any of these uh,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 3: either invasive species that we think of, you know, it's
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 3: bioterrorism at that point. And and it is it's it's
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 3: thinking about the movement of if it's screw them, if
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 3: it's you know what a big thing is cattle fever tick,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: which is a huge deal, and so like if you
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 3: were to move those into the US, that's going to
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: you know, or or even bringing in.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 3: A thing that I think is kind of relevant is
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: you know, with blue tongue virus, which is transmitted by
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: these these biding midges, you know when we have outbreaks.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 3: You know, currently there's some weird dynamics of blue tongue
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: going on in Europe, Like you end up halting trade
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: because of those things and the economic damage and kind
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: of you know, the downstream consequences that exist are are present.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: And so it is something that is it is thought
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 3: about what that really looks like. I don't know, you know,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: it's it's I'm not sitting in on those meetings of
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 3: people strategizing people like it even plausible or not, But
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 3: I think it would be plausible, right. I think that
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: if you were to do that, it would just be
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: a matter of Yeah, with something like that, you'd have
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: to start a colony, and you'd have to do all
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: this stuff to then get them to then bring them
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: to the US. And what that would look like to
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: by some level of expertise, yeah, exactly.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: You know, a while back, those a few weeks, few
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: months ago, maybe the Trump administration floated the idea that
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: like they're trying to you know, they like attacked egg prices, right,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration was like trying to like lower beef prices.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: And there's this conversation of and I don't even know
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: the dog might know how this works, but there's a conversation, well,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: let's bring more beef from Argentina. Let's bring more beef
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: from Mexico. Yeah, uh, this has planned all that, right.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, like you show up with a truckload, like
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: you show up at the Douglas Arizona crossing, yep. And
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how it works, but
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: like presumably you show up with a truckload of cows,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: our guys customs or whatever, the veterinarian aspect of customs
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: in that's got to be a real question, right, So
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: where they come from?
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 3: And yeah, so all the animal ports of entry are
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: currently closed due to screworm with Mexico are Yeah.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: So that was kind of a non idea. Yes, you
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: could bring packaged meating.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you could do something like that. And
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: one thing again, I'm I'm new to New Mexico, but
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: one thing that is interesting, you know, I guess for
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 3: everybody is that New Mexico has the largest animal port
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: of entry anywhere in the US. So we import more
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 3: than fifty percent of the cattle that come across from Mexico.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: At the Santa there said border crossing near all.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: Passes and it's closed because of screw worms.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: It's so all of the border crossings are so Douglas Columbus,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: any of them in Texas. We currently are not importing
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: animals from Mexico because of screworm. So what that looks
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 3: like like in different ways, I don't know. I'm not
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: an economist, so I can't speak to some of that,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: but what it it? Yeah, they're they're currently closed and
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 3: so uh and when they do real who whose call
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 3: is that to make ust It's yeah, it's APHIS's call,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: and I think that, you know, there are going to
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: be some downstream consequences. You know, I have a I
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 3: have a colleague who you know, works with you know,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 3: he works in in cattle, and he was talking about,
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: you know, just the drivers that you know, would be
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: bringing those animals across, so then truck them. You know,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 3: the border has been closed for multiple months, and it's
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: like they had to go find new jobs because that
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: was their job. So what's gonna happen when the ports
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: open back up. Are they just gonna you know, they
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 3: all have new jobs.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like when you know, when the when
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: the government fired all these USCA employees, it's like, oh, hey,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: we know we actually needed those people. But like they
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: can't just sit there, so they went and found new jobs.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: Did they doze a bunch of screwroom guys? So not?
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 3: I think they tried with a lot of these things.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: They were like, oh yeah, you've been here for you know,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 3: because it was all these temporary employees. So if it
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 3: was screw them or it was highpath avian influenza, they're like,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, we need to fire all these people. And
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: they're like, oh no, we need those people, so they
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 3: like they fired them and then like took away their
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: government emails and then brought them back. And it like,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: I you know, I'm I'm very good friends with the
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: people that run the screwerm lab. And it's been a
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 3: very and a lot of just uscay like oh shit,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: we fired him, yeah, call him back, Yeah yeah, Well,
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: and and that's kind of the whole thing, right, and
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: and so it is. It's there's a lot of these
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 3: infrastructure pieces that we don't know what it's going to
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 3: look like. And there's a lot of people that want
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 3: that border to open, but the and there's going to
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 3: be policies. So like currently the the process will be,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: you know, the animals already dipped with kumafas when they
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: come across the border anyways, like to deal with cattle fever,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 3: tick or other ectoparasites. But they're going to be treating
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 3: them with ivermectin and moving them across the border when
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: that ends up opening.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: COVID medication those jokes, yeah, aha, for.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: Us, it's one of these things that it's like it's
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: a it's been something that has been used for so
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: long in both human and animal production systems. And so,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: but there are going to be all of these different
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: things that go on. But yeah, currently the borders are
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: shut down because of that, so they're yeah, what that
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 3: looks like moving forward? I know that there's like rumblings
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 3: that people want it to open, but it also doesn't
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: seem like we're anywhere near that actually being the case.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: Let's jump to an area. Let's let's jump into an
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: area where there is like high rates. Okay, like a
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: real trouble spot.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: Uh, well he talked about it with cattle, but it's
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: like in an area that has screworm, it's got to
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: it's it's somewhat indiscriminate, right, correct, But I mean like, yeah,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: there's not like a deer strain and a cow strain.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: It's like all things get hit.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and and I focus I've focused mostly on cattle.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: Here pull that picture because yeah, I saw a dog.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: And so in Mexico currently, the uh if you look
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: at the distribution of in that middle one is a
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: video too. If you click on it, I can't, Oh
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: you can't, okay, No, it's okay.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 3: So so in Mexico, the number one infestation is in cattle.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: Number two is in dogs. And part of that though,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: is brain paying open up. Yeah yeah, and so and
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: then that they got through the bone.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: So so they're just chewing through everything.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: They can chew through your bones.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know exactly how that all looks, uh, to
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 3: be completely honest, but yeah, it's not great. And so again,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: so it is, it's indiscriminate. And I talk, I talk
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 3: a lot about cattle. But that's because that's the thing
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: that we look at right like we're looking at animals,
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: we're running them through a shoot, we're doing all of that.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's just like a lot.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: So that's a key deer that has its brain uh
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 3: essentially eaten.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 4: So it's alive with like a hole in its skull,
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: correct and its brain exposed. That beautiful.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: But they didn't get in on him. They didn't get
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: in on him because he dropped his no. No. So
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: that's just a he's.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 3: And so again it's it's one of these things that
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: my concern and again, like wanting to communicate to a group,
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: you know, a group of outdoors people, is that we're
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: not looking at animals, you know, we're not looking at
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: wildlife because we're you know, We're not rounding up deer
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 3: and running them through a shoot to inspect them, right.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, you don't take a dry you know,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: no one's taking a drive every morning, and you see
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: how the hurts exactly.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: And so the problem is is that, yeah, it's gonna
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: get into wildlife and it's going to run rampant in
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 3: wildlife because wildlife are going to get to places people
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 3: can't get to. Sure, and then it's going to exist
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 3: and you're going to have animals that die, and then
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: the those maggots are going to crawl off pupid, emerge
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: as adults, and they're going to infect some other animals,
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 3: and it's going to be this you know, propagating issue.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like it could live in a deer herd. Correct,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: It could live in a deer herd somewhere for some
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: period of time before a stockman realizes correct.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so and that's kind of the concern. And
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 3: so in Mexico, you know, talking to these veterinarians that
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 3: we brought up for this training, they were saying, like
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 3: we asked about wildlife, They're like, oh, yeah, one hundred
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 3: percent is in wildlife. We just we can't we can't
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 3: document those cases, and so because of that, it's it
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 3: is it's this kind of this area that kind of
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: exists that we don't really know what to do with.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: And even when it comes to you know, outreach and
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: stuff like that, we can go to a you know,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 3: cattleman's association meeting, we can talk to brand inspectors, we
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 3: can do a lot of that type of stuff. But
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 3: when it comes to communicating to a bunch of hunters
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: or outdoors people in general, it's a more challenging kind
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: of environment to be able to communicate to them, to develop, uh,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: you know, different tools to be able to you know,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: do that. You know, a couple of colleagues of mine
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 3: we're putting together a survey for New Mexico where we
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 3: went to uh, survey hunters, you know, kind of outdoors people,
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 3: cattle producers in the general public. I recognize that there's
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 3: a certain type of person that answers surveys, but it
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 3: is still one of these things that we.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: Want to be able to do.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 3: You answer surveys, Yeah, yeah, it could be that could
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 3: be the first question.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 4: But it is.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is something Yeah, yeah, it's something that
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: in the next couple of weeks that that's something that
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 3: we're gonna put out to try to just see what
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: people know, what people don't know.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: Tell people what look for, like, yeah, all the woods,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: you're out running around whatever, and then here you see
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: a blank yeah.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 3: So and so some of that is going to be challenging,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 3: right because if you if you see a dead animal
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 3: and you see maggots, you'll see that right, like that's
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 3: just gonna happen, and with a decomposing animal, and so
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 3: some of it is just a matter of if you
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 3: see that, that's something that you should be reporting. A
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 3: dead animal with magots, a dead animal with maggots. So
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 3: you saw it's just this morning reported dead hole in
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 3: a tree exactly. Yeah, and so but again it's it's
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: one of these things that it will be especially important
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 3: if in win screworm kits here, but it is going
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: to be kind of a early reporting thing as well.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: So depending on the state that you're in. I had,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, in New Mexico at all of our extension offices.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 3: I know Arizona's doing a similar thing. We have these
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 3: collection kits that people can request or get and pretty
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: much what it comes with is a set of tweezers.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: It comes with a vial that has seventy percent ethanol
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 3: in it, and then it comes with a QR code
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 3: and it pretty much says collect maggots from these different
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 3: locations and then essentially you can then submit it to
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 3: the New Mexico Department of rom Live stuff, no from
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: and from dead things as well. I think that it's
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: one of these things that we're looking more for a
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: living animal that has things in it. But for hunters,
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: you know, you're not going to get them.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 5: You just harvested deer, Yeah, and you immediately look it
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 5: over right, exactly well, and that's and that's really where
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm trying to communicate is, yeah, you're going
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 5: to be looking at animals in a way that the
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 5: rest of us aren't.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: Right, And and again we're especially in southern New Mexico
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 3: where you know, we have a number of those exotics
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: and everything like that. It's going to be something that
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 3: people are handling those animals because they've harvested them to
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: look them over, look for maggots, anything like that. And
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: so obviously if you were to come across an animal
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 3: and it's just skull and bones in the you know,
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: am I saying that you should collect maggots. Probably not,
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 3: but it also wouldn't hurt you know, part of the
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 3: New Mexico Department of Bag and you know ag agencies
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: in general across the country. Part of what they're doing
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 3: right now is processing samples if it's adult flies, if
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 3: it's maggots, just to monitor, yeah, just to monitor.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: The wildlife agencies take interest. Yet is it mostly the
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: egg commission?
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: So it's mostly the community. So in New Mexico, we
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: Fish and Wildlife put out kind of a call. It
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: was an email to anyone that drew a tag last
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: year essentially saying, hey, be on the lookout for this.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know of any other agencies that are currently
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: doing that, though I think that it is a really
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: great thing to kind of be able to do that.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 3: So like I got an email, A colleague of mine
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: got an email, and I was like, oh, okay, actually
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 3: they're doing something. But that's part of the challenge is
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 3: because it is this whole other group that we don't
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 3: traditionally interface with, and so it's getting those people involved.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 3: And the other challenge is that you know, every state
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 3: has their own state response. Obviously it's all governed by
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 3: the USDA, but what Texas is doing, and what New
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 3: Mexico is doing, and what Airs is doing, what California
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: is doing, they're all slightly different. And a lot of
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 3: that has to do with kind of funding structures and
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: where stuff like that is coming from and so and
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 3: the way that people are developing things. And so again,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 3: my kind of call is is if you see something,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: say something in a lot of ways because I think
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: that it's it's something that is going to be a concern.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: And if you're concerned about the environment, you're concerned about
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 3: the health of wildlife, you know, that's a big concern
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: on that front.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: You know, we have a lot of conversations about mortality
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: events with wildlife, and there's this question of like is
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: it a population level impact, Meaning someone might look and
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: say lead ammunition can lead to some rapt or death
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: because they're ingesting fragments of lead from carcasses they scavenge
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: or left by hunters. And someone might counter that by
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: saying that happens, it's not a population level impact. Or
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: wind turbines, you know, on or bird species. It might
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: be like, yes, for sure, but it's not a population
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: level impact. The same way you look and you'd say here,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: Like man, cars hit and kill a lot of deer
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: right most every week you see a new dead deer
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: somewhere around these neighborhoods that we're in right now. Ye,
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: but it's not a population level impact in your opinion,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: Is it possible to have population level impacts on wildlife
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: considering that it has that this stuff needs to be wounded?
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 3: I couldn't say, like truly, I think some of it
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: what that really looks like. I think if it were
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: to just run rampant, you potentially would see that. You know,
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking about you know, like ORX in New Mexico
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 3: or something like that. I could see a population level
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 3: impact there, right Are you going to see that in.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: An area would have a thing that's confined to a
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: relatively small anyways and it's not a huge population anyways.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or you know where we're talking prong horned populations
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: in New Mexico or anything like that.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: A good point in a reduced vulnerable population, a population
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: level impact could be for adults.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 3: Correct, And so that's where I think you're going to
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 3: see impacts. Do I think that it's there's going to
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 3: be a population level impact to white tail deer.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: No, probably not, like it's like it's additive mortel for
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: some populations like the key deer losing a handful of
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: mature animals as a hit.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I think they lost one hundred and
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 3: fifty deer or something like that, which is a huge
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 3: number with what the population is. And so I I
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 3: can't speak to that from the that And I also
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 3: don't know if anyone has ever tried modeling it or
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: anything like that. We say that it will have an
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 3: impact on wildlife, but that's the challenge, is that how
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 3: do you actually you know, it hasn't been here for
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 3: like in being endemic for fifty plus years, and so
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 3: what that looks like they were modeling, how they were
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 3: doing any of that. It's completely changed. And so yeah,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I can't definitively say, but some of
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 3: these more vulnerable populations, I could imagine it being a
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 3: concern and then that's going to change, you know, tag
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: allocation and anything else like that, and so it's going
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 3: to be a kind of concern overall.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: We mentioned getting on dogs and Mexico on dogs, is
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: that mostly like are they seeing it on that's just
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: like feral dogs, street dogs.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so much.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: Pets.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: No, so you'll see it in.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: Pets as well. You might have your dog go home,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: be like what in the world?
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 3: Correct, And so that's actually something that currently whenever an
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 3: animal is brought from a endemic zone in Mexico across
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: the border, the animals are supposed to have a certified
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: ved inspection and.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: That's the things they would look for.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 3: And that's one of the So that's the reason that
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 3: it currently exists for companion animals is so that screworm
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 3: because scream coming across and and that you know, some
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 3: people are very concerned about. That's how scrowm would get
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 3: here is because you know, we already.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: Have my buddy. Yeah, I don't want to read them out.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: And the dog's dead anyways, in the so long ago
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: he he smuggled a Mexico dog home. Yeah, named it
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: number seven and uh died long ago. Okay, Uh, but
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: you know you wouldn't be able to water board it
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: out of me? Who did?
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 4: What about uh? Wild hogs?
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Texas, Yeah.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 4: A huge fear around so yeah around screw yeah.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 3: So that's it, like hogs and well just just think
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 3: about you know them, you know interacting wounding themselves or others,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 3: and then kind of what that's going to do, and
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 3: then the movement all exactly in so.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 4: Many Texas, like suburban urban areas.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 3: And it's funny, you know when we've when I've been
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 3: in strategy meetings about like, all right, well what happens
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 3: because it'll probably get to Texas first. It's just that
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: really exposed border and where the cases are, it'll probably
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: get into Texas first. And so we're like, all right,
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: it's probably more of a concern for us to deal with,
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 3: you know, screw them coming from Texas than it is
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 3: from Mexico. And so we're kind of thinking from that
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 3: that eastern side of our state where we have a
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 3: bunch of cattle productions are coming. Yeah, we have a
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 3: we have a bunch of cattle production and there's a
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: huge wild hog problem there. And so we're like, all right,
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: this is a this is a place that we need
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: to be able to monitor and kind of deal with
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 3: when it comes to a lot of that is Yeah,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 3: So so wild hogs are are definitely a concern, and
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like, all right, well what do we
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: do with them?
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 3: Just you know, it's our it's already a problem just
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 3: from their damage, let alone. From now they're going to
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 3: be carrying Screwroom around.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: M M. What do you got, Doug?
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: I got a new band name. It's called the New
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: World screw Worms.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: That's like heavy metal. It's like, it's like goar.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: And the album is called Problem of the Americas.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: I uh, good album like that? An I uh, I
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: could see a band Problem with the Americas. Yeah, that's
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: what it wouldn't be death metal. Oh yeah, screw is hardcore,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: hardcore death metal, like the kind of stuff you don't
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: you want your kids to listen to. That's the kind
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: of music screw Room makes.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: Beyond that, I I thought when I saw this.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 5: Title and started reading a little bit about it, I'm like, well,
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 5: this ought to be interesting, and it's been fascinating.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: You came down here thinking you wouldn't be interested. I
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: thought I had you come because I knew you'd be interested.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 5: Well, I didn't know how interested I would be. The
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 5: whole thing with cattle, I mean, i've you know, like
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 5: you cut the antler, I'm sorry, the horns off. I
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 5: just remember this blue coat was the blue stuff that
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 5: would spray.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: Was a stockman. But retired.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but so you cut the horns off cows and
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 5: then and you know, if you do it too or
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 5: too late in the spring, then the flies get in
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 5: there and then the mag But the maggots do a
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 5: really great job of cleaning up all of the I
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 5: it's just all these weird things you saw life or
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 5: death on the farm kind of stuff. And so those
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 5: are all the images that were going through my head.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 5: And yeah, I think I have had everything else answered.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: Doug.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: You you're going on to speaking, you have some speaking
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: engagements coming up. Where're gonna discuss screw?
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: Well? I would try to. I'll tell you what I'm
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: gonna try to work in.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 4: Repertoire.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where are you gonna speak?
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 5: I'm doing some fun stuff. I will be at peasant
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 5: Fest as I have been for the last several years,
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 5: and talking on the Habitat stage about working with the
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 5: Fish and Wildlife Service on a on a project and
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 5: in our on our farm. And I'm also talking in
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 5: the Path to the Upland stage about making a contribution
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 5: to conservation and building a conservation resume. The other couple
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 5: of talks are really, you know, kind of fun. One
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 5: of them is all of the county conservationists in the
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 5: state come together for a convention every year and then
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 5: they bring in all these other people and I'm going
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 5: to be the keynote speaker. They're talking about working with
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 5: landowners to move conservation forward. And then in Northern Illinois
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 5: a forestry association sort of the same idea that if
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 5: we're going to do anything on a landscape level, we
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 5: really need to involve private landowners and a great way
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 5: to do that is through sharing the land and getting
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 5: things done on private property like burns and that sort
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 5: of stuff where you need a lot of people for
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 5: a short period of time. That's one of the things
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 5: that we're going to be talking about there, is getting
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 5: people involved with conservation on private land.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: Do you have a way if people want to check in,
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: if people want to track the activities of Bubbly Doug,
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: where do they go to find out where you're going
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: to be Someone wants to come.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: Meet you or hear you Sharing land dot com.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: And you'll have an events calendar.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there's an events calendar there. And and then on
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 5: my website, Doug Duran dot com, there's an events calendar
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 5: there too. You can follow me on Instagram and you know,
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 5: ignore the stuff that you don't want to read about,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 5: and pay attention to.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: Pay attention to the stuff that you do, you know,
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: and then where do people what's the best resource people
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: that want to read up on screwworm.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I guess a couple of things that the
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 3: USDA and APHIS have done a really good job at
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 3: kind of putting out a lot of really good resources
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 3: kind of over time. And so if you just you know, Google, uh, screwerm,
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 3: you'll end up finding some different some different resources there
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 3: if you're kind of interested in what's going on in
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 3: New Mexico specifically or in kind of some of these
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 3: southern states. So you can go to my website, hovered.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: Lab dot com. Yeah, how'd you wrought up with a
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: lab named after you? Yeah?
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 3: So, well that's my last name.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: I got to so you founded the lab? Yes, because
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: we have a guy on like Monteith he has he
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: has his lab they called the Monteethe Shop. But yeah, like, yeah,
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: he's a researcher that has his own shot.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 3: I will say that I'm just not creative, and so
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 3: it was one of those things of it.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: But you founded I don't mean how'd you want? I
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: mean why is named that? But you came in Yeah, yeah,
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: so you came in and founded yeah, like an entomology lab. Correct.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 3: So I got hired as an assistant professor at New
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: Mexico State, and so part of my job is I'm
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 3: seventy five percent research, and so with that was starting
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 3: a lab to do different different projects. And so, you know,
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: we do everything from scorpions Arizona bark scorpions to cockroaches
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 3: to you know, we'll probably do some kissing bug work.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 3: We do a lot of house fly stuff. We're doing
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: a bunch of screm stuff as well.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: How many grad students are floating in and around.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 3: Your Yeah, so so currently I've only been here a
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 3: couple of months, and so I have my first uh
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 3: student that's going to be starting here in about a year,
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 3: but she's an excellent undergrad. I have a technician. I
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 3: have a couple of undergrad so it's five or six
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 3: of us. We're kind of expanding out currently. I will
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 3: say that that's one thing that's fascinating is running a lab.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 3: If anyone hasn't talked about this, it's it's more like
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 3: a business than I ever thought, because it's finding the
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 3: money to pay these people. It's supervising them. It's kind
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 3: of coming up with all that stuff. And so yeah,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 3: and so I got I got hired to kind of
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 3: do a lot of just cool work and then screw
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 3: Room kind of popped up and it's like, all right,
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 3: that's where I'm gonna shift my focus at least for
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 3: the time being. And so yeah, so Hubbard Lab dot com.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 3: On Instagram, it's NMSU Urban Entomology.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: You put in nasty, you put up nasty disease photos
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: on there.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 3: So so we're kind of we're we're in that building
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 3: stage currently where we're you know, I we're just gonna
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 3: be talking about some of the projects and I but
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 3: I think over time we probably will just kind of
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: informational stuff about storm or or anything like that. And
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 3: and so yeah, I will say though, if you're looking
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 3: for specific information, you know, on what is directly going on.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: USDA kind of updates it on on cases that are
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 3: currently going on. They keep it up to date weekly.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 3: APHIS does. And so there's a number of decent resources
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 3: that I can provide some of the links and stuff
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 3: like that if that's something that people want. I guess
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 3: two of the other things that I would say though,
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 3: is one the biggest thing that people can do is
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: share this information, right, you know. I I've been asked like,
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 3: all right, how can we prepare, how can we do
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 3: anything like that? Just like anything, it's getting the information
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 3: out there, because that's the that's the biggest thing, you know, South.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: Texas, correct, Southern New Mexico, southern Arizona, Presumealy, southern sorry,
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: californ Yeah.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 3: And and so that's that's going to be one of
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 3: these things. But it's important for everybody to know. You know,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 3: we we had imported cases in Maryland and a human
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 3: you know, and so it's a uh yeah, and so
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 3: that was that was a case. You'll you can look
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 3: at the news headlines. It was maybe October or something
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 3: like that. There's a guy that came back from an
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 3: endemic country that had screw them like in his arm
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 3: or something like that. Yes, it's great, man, but again
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 3: it's a it's a concern, and so it's not just
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 3: something that we should be focused in in southern New
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 3: Mexico or or South Texas. And so getting that information
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: out there hit the Florida keys, yeah and and again yeah,
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 3: and and there may be I heard some rumbling that
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 3: they actually figured it out. I from what I knew,
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 3: they had never figured out exactly where it came from
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 3: or how the incursion occurred, because it is it's kind
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: of strange, just like popped up in the Florida Keys
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: and then we didn't see it anywhere else. But it's
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 3: just one of these things of getting out there, you know, talking.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 3: You know, we all elected a bunch of people, right,
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 3: you know, and you know it's great you you had
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 3: our senator in a couple of weeks ago, and I
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 3: really enjoyed kind of listening to his philosophy when it
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 3: comes to, you know, the outdoors and conservation and everything
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 3: like that. But I think that it's important to communicate
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 3: with our elected officials and tell them, hey, this isn't
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 3: something that is just a concern for this group of people,
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: or it's out of sight, it's out of mind because
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 3: it's down in Mexico, you know. We you know, there's
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: a saying that like parasites don't have borders, right, like
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 3: they're just gonna hop right across, and so we need
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 3: to be able to do that. And so communicating with
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 3: your elected officials, even if it's not finding funding to
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: fund some of the research or anything else like that.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 3: It's just saying, hey, this is something that's important to
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 3: me or could be important. Yeah, And so I think
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 3: that that's kind of the the big takeaways on finding
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 3: information communicating that kind of overall. I guess two other
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 3: things I guess I would say is, you know, if
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 3: you want to support kind of our ongoing work, you can.
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 3: You can donate on my website to kind of our efforts.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 3: If it's urban entomology, if it's screw worm, if it's
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 3: anything like that, or there's just you know, there's it
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 3: doesn't have to be me, there are lots of other
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 3: people that are trying to do.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 3: What it comes down to is, you know we're trying
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 3: to especially in New Mexico, I will say, is that
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 3: we're kind of you know, grassroots effort on trying to
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 3: get out communicate. We don't have the backing like a
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 3: state like Texas does. And that's something for me is
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 3: that I don't want New Mexico to be left behind.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 3: And it in a lot of ways is just kind
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 3: of like that that ug least sub child, right, And
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 3: so I want to be able to advocate for the
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 3: state and be able to put out as much good
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 3: information and as much good research as any of the
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 3: other you know, well funded and kind of backed states,
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 3: you know, Texas and California. And so that's why I'm
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 3: out spending my time communicating this because it's it's something
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 3: that I may not be from New Mexico, but I
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 3: call myself a New Mexican at this point. And so yes,
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 3: I recognized I started the podcast by talking about, you know,
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 3: New Mexico not being grated a lot of things. But
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 3: my whole goal is to make sure that we we
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 3: are prepared as we possibly can. And then the last
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 3: thing is is that I do want to hear from
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 3: people on their what their knowledge of screw them, how
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 3: concerned they are. Because one thing that we want to
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 3: be able to do is develop educational material, and you know,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 3: material that will resonate with people, if it's producers, if
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 3: it's hunters, if it's the general public. And we can't
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 3: get that without feedback and so get early detection exactly,
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 3: and because that's going to be that that's going to
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 3: be the biggest thing is to buy in, right, we
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 3: need to get people to buy in. And if it's cattle, producers. Well,
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 3: we need to get cattle producers to report it. Cattle
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 3: prices are super high, is a cattle producer are going
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 3: to want to say, hey, I have this thing and
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 3: they can't move their animals, you know, And so that's
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 3: where getting hunters involved, you know, explaining to cattle producers, hey,
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 3: this is this. We recognize that, you know a lot
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 3: of people have echoes of the way that the most
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 3: recent pandemic was kind of handled. And you can have
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 3: your own opinions on how that was handled, but that's
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 3: not the goal here is to kind of it. It
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 3: is to control it and then let's get back to normal.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: And there's a lot of I think learning that can
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: be taken from how we handled COVID. And I know
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 3: that the government is kind of taking you know, the
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 3: government doesn't do a good job at taking opinions. But
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 3: I will say from the meetings I've been and people
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 3: are recognizing, hey, let's not do what we did before
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 3: if and when it gets here, and so let's.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: Listen to people exactly and a diverse set of viewpoints.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's where it comes down to getting that
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 3: information from people of Hey, I want to know if
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 3: you don't care at all. You know, It's like there
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 3: are some people that aren't concerned about CWD, right, and
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 3: so with something like that, I want to hear from
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 3: people and see where they're concerned. Is because if I'm
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 3: I'm employed and I paid by the taxpayers in New Mexico,
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 3: so I am here to answer to them and to
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 3: develop information for them.
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: Overall. Yeah, Okay, Caleb Hubbard veterinarian entomologists, the first one
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: we've ever had on the show. Maybe the last, maybe
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: not because you did a bad jockey. Well, we're gonna
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: switch to a forensic entomologist from there.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 3: I will say. Jeff Do is kind of a combination
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 3: of everything. He does forensics, he does in veterinary entomology.
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: So not not the last. Yeah, potentially veteran. Yeah, it's
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: just we've been at it a long time. Yeah, we've
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: only had one Unlos statistics man. Yeah, you know what
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, what are the odds?
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know you had doctor Schmidt, you know,
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 3: with the pain index and everything. Yeah, you had you
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 3: had one another.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: You don't know, No one knows if we didn't talk
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: about it. We also had a guest on who happens
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: to be an aquatic entomologist, but he wasn't there to
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: talk about that, Okay, so let me read redo it.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: Doctor Caleb Hubbard one of many entomologists you have heard
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: from and we'll hear from on the Medeor podcast. Of
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: that you can't so many entomologists can't keep them straight.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: From the Hubbard Entomology Lab at New Mexico State University
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: and also the beautiful and lovely Doug Durrent. Thanks for
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: joining me.