Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 3, Season 1: How Does this Hurt You?

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Episode 3, Season 1: How Does this Hurt You? · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

0:08
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. This is episode three.
0:12
Speaker 1: I am your co host Raina Butcher here with our host,
0:16
Speaker 1: the Lovely Doctor Sarah Hinsley. Hey, hey, hey, I sort
0:22
Speaker 1: of do feel like this episode requires a trigger warning.
0:26
Speaker 1: I do so because we're going to talk about pain,
0:30
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about specifically how things hurt you.
0:35
Speaker 1: So if you're triggered easily, if you're not fully healed,
0:38
Speaker 1: just know that this episode, this episode may be a
0:41
Speaker 1: little harder to listen to. So let's get right into it,
0:46
Speaker 1: specifically the question of how does this hurt you? And
0:51
Speaker 1: of course how this translates into our intimate and romantic relationships. Yes,
0:58
Speaker 1: so delve right in and let us like.
1:00
Speaker 2: So, I got the idea for this episode because of
1:03
Speaker 2: something that happened between my husband and I. So I'll
1:09
Speaker 2: just tell a story. It's it's funny.
1:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:12
Speaker 2: I have a seven year old little girl and one
1:16
Speaker 2: day he picked her up from school and she's like,
1:19
Speaker 2: I wanna, I want to decorate for Christmas. I'm ready
1:22
Speaker 2: to decorate for Christmas. So he's like, cool, let's go
1:25
Speaker 2: to Loew's. And you know when I decorate for Christmas,
1:28
Speaker 2: it's usually like very classy, very Monica, and it's all
1:34
Speaker 2: matchie matchie and very like classy.
1:36
Speaker 1: Right.
1:37
Speaker 2: And my husband he's just like the fun dude, He's
1:39
Speaker 2: the fun step dad. He took her there. They picked
1:43
Speaker 2: out the most ridiculous blow ups for the lawn and
1:49
Speaker 2: like a plastic lama and like he just let her
1:52
Speaker 2: pick out whatever she wanted and it was precious.
1:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sweet, but.
1:56
Speaker 2: I mean, oh my gosh, it was a lot like
1:58
Speaker 2: we had four or five Johns giant ridiculous, like we
2:01
Speaker 2: had chipmunks. We had an alligator with sunglasses on.
2:05
Speaker 1: It was like straight up it was.
2:07
Speaker 2: So it was very cringey, as gen Z would say. Anyway,
2:13
Speaker 2: I went with it. I was like, okay, cool, this
2:14
Speaker 2: is what we're doing. It's fine. And so then after Christmas,
2:20
Speaker 2: you know, it has to all be taken down. So
2:22
Speaker 2: he was out there and was taking the blow ups down.
2:27
Speaker 2: But he left the plastic lama because it had something
2:30
Speaker 2: like up its butt to hold it there in place,
2:35
Speaker 2: and it was like hooked up to some lights like
2:36
Speaker 2: so it would glow. So he had ti he just
2:39
Speaker 2: hadn't gotten to it yet. You know, it was no
2:40
Speaker 2: big deal. So I walk in the house and I
2:44
Speaker 2: tell Alexa to play that Miranda Lambert song like Can't
2:46
Speaker 2: Keep My White Trash Off the Lawn. And I was
2:50
Speaker 2: playing it and I was laughing, and he comes downstairs
2:54
Speaker 2: and he's like, why is this music on? And I
2:57
Speaker 2: was like, don't you get it, Like we've got some
3:00
Speaker 2: white trash on our lawn and he got like I
3:03
Speaker 2: could just see his face just drop with just like pain.
3:08
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, maybe his upbringing.
3:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, so my husband grew up extremely poor, yeah, like
3:16
Speaker 2: food stamps, didn't know in a car poor, right, he
3:19
Speaker 2: was in true poverty, and you know, he was bullied
3:25
Speaker 2: and called white trash a lot, right, And so I
3:29
Speaker 2: was derogatory, like it's horrible.
3:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
3:32
Speaker 2: He Actually, when I actually went back and thought about it,
3:35
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, it's just a funny country song, right,
3:37
Speaker 2: you know, and it's jovial.
3:39
Speaker 1: But the word trash, isn't it? Like think about what
3:42
Speaker 1: you do with trash?
3:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, you throw it away right exactly. And so I
3:46
Speaker 2: was like, dang it, you know, So I said, I
3:48
Speaker 2: just asked him, I said, how does this hurt you? Right?
3:53
Speaker 2: Because my trigger was I wanted to get defensive because
3:57
Speaker 2: you're good, and I didn't mean it as a derogatory word.
4:04
Speaker 2: But I had to have some introspection on that. And
4:06
Speaker 2: when I asked him, how does this hurt you? He
4:08
Speaker 2: just said, well, you know, I was called white trash
4:11
Speaker 2: a lot growing up, and I don't like that term
4:13
Speaker 2: and I don't like that word that that word is
4:15
Speaker 2: painful for me, you know, because he's super, super emotionally
4:19
Speaker 2: available and very mature, right, and he's not going to
4:22
Speaker 2: go like cry about it, but he's going to say, like,
4:24
Speaker 2: I don't love that, you know, it doesn't make me
4:26
Speaker 2: feel good. And I had to reflect, like I'm not
4:27
Speaker 2: the kind of person that throws out insults or as
4:30
Speaker 2: sure you know, I guess a discriminatory person or you know,
4:36
Speaker 2: certainly not a racist person. And I was like, wow,
4:41
Speaker 2: like I understand, Yeah, I'm so sorry, like all forever,
4:45
Speaker 2: Like I'm not going to listen to that song anymore.
4:47
Speaker 2: And I know now that that's that's a wound, and.
4:52
Speaker 1: What a beautiful moment for you to like and that
4:55
Speaker 1: I think that's what introspection gives us, Like that people
4:57
Speaker 1: don't really acknowledge, like if you really take that moment
5:01
Speaker 1: to say, Okay, how does this hurt you? Not only
5:03
Speaker 1: do you learn something about your partner, you learn something
5:06
Speaker 1: about yourself, which is really beautiful, which means that you
5:10
Speaker 1: can take a step further in your level of consciousness
5:12
Speaker 1: and growth. Yeah, which is ultimately what we're here to do, right,
5:15
Speaker 1: It's what we're here to do.
5:17
Speaker 2: It is what we're here to do. And yeah, did
5:19
Speaker 2: my initial trigger again? I know how to dismantle the
5:23
Speaker 2: trigger cycle. So my initial trigger was you're oversensitive. I
5:27
Speaker 2: was just being playful, gosh, or taking it so hard, right,
5:30
Speaker 2: just what ninety five percent of people would have said.
5:33
Speaker 2: But when you learn to get past your own defensiveness
5:37
Speaker 2: and you learn to stop being offended and triggered, you
5:40
Speaker 2: have the capacity for empathy, to listen, to learn to love.
5:47
Speaker 2: You're open, you're curious, you're mindful. When you dismantle the
5:50
Speaker 2: trigger cycle, when you step out of the traumatized state
5:53
Speaker 2: of the trigger, when you learn how to dismantle that,
5:57
Speaker 2: you can step into consciousness. And I was, I wanted
6:00
Speaker 2: to know, why is this hurtful to you? You know?
6:03
Speaker 2: And I you know, I grew up lower middle class.
6:07
Speaker 2: We were not impoverished. We didn't have a ton, but
6:10
Speaker 2: we had a lot of our basic needs. And he
6:13
Speaker 2: had to worry about basic needs and I can't. I
6:17
Speaker 2: can't fully empathize with that. I do my best to
6:21
Speaker 2: imagine what it would have been like, but I do,
6:25
Speaker 2: but I do my best, you know, to empathize well.
6:29
Speaker 1: And you know, Josh and I had a similar experience.
6:31
Speaker 1: Josh is my husband where and it was you actually
6:34
Speaker 1: that gave me the perspective funny, right, but you know
6:38
Speaker 1: we shocking and you know this, like we tend to
6:42
Speaker 1: have the same fight. Yeah, actually we have the same
6:45
Speaker 1: fight over it. Ever, Josh and I have only had
6:48
Speaker 1: one fight in our entire relationship, and it is the
6:51
Speaker 1: same one. And it never feels it's just when we're out,
6:56
Speaker 1: he tends to get a little protective and a little overly.
7:00
Speaker 1: I don't want to use the word jealous because I
7:01
Speaker 1: don't think that's what it is, and I don't think
7:02
Speaker 1: it's fair, Like he's not a jealous person. He just
7:06
Speaker 1: he's singing because it's always when he has a gig,
7:10
Speaker 1: and he sees me giving my attention to other people, right,
7:15
Speaker 1: and so it brings up these insecurities in him. Sure,
7:19
Speaker 1: and then I feel controlled right when he gets angry
7:23
Speaker 1: or like he'll play it off like he's not mad,
7:26
Speaker 1: but it's very obvious through his energy that he is mad.
7:29
Speaker 2: That's just a minute, because because you're beautiful and people
7:33
Speaker 2: look at you.
7:34
Speaker 1: Well, and you know, I mean the last time we
7:36
Speaker 1: had this fight, obviously he was singing. I was at
7:40
Speaker 1: the bar and some guy came up to me and
7:42
Speaker 1: asked to buy me a drink. I refused, like I
7:44
Speaker 1: turned the drink down. But then we stood there and
7:48
Speaker 1: recognized that he was from southeastern Kentucky, and then we
7:50
Speaker 1: started talking like it was very innocent. It doesn't matter,
7:52
Speaker 1: that's not the point, but Josh got the insecurity has
7:56
Speaker 1: just kind of got inflamed, right right. And so then
7:59
Speaker 1: by the time that we get home, I'm just so
8:02
Speaker 1: angry because I'm like, I'm so sick of the same fight,
8:04
Speaker 1: Like I'm just existing. This isn't a fair to me.
8:07
Speaker 1: I feel controlled blah blah blah blah blah. And then
8:11
Speaker 1: it was probably a day later that I really wanted
8:15
Speaker 1: to force it out of him. I'm like, why do
8:17
Speaker 1: you do this? Why? And I was still being too aggressive,
8:21
Speaker 1: you know, I was like, you need and then every
8:23
Speaker 1: answer he was trying to give me, I was like, no,
8:25
Speaker 1: that's not good.
8:26
Speaker 2: Enough.
8:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, that's really what it was. Like, that's
8:31
Speaker 1: so surface level, that's not good enough. And never once
8:35
Speaker 1: until I came to you and told you about the fight,
8:39
Speaker 1: that you said your exact words, Can I say something
8:42
Speaker 1: to you without totally offending you? And I was like, absolutely, I'm.
8:46
Speaker 2: Here, which is what I love about our friendship.
8:48
Speaker 1: Yes, you said, do you think that maybe due to
8:52
Speaker 1: your promiscuous sexual past, which I openly admit and sharing
8:58
Speaker 1: that with Josh because I'm an oversharer, not out of
9:03
Speaker 1: or oversharers, not because I'm not an oversharer out of
9:07
Speaker 1: like to persuade jealousy in him. I'm an oversharer because
9:12
Speaker 1: he's my confidant.
9:13
Speaker 2: And you've grown and you've learned, and I healed that
9:16
Speaker 2: part of you that was driving.
9:17
Speaker 1: That, right, and so I share it as this way
9:20
Speaker 1: to really to avoid the shame that comes from it,
9:24
Speaker 1: because it's the only way to avoid the shame from it.
9:27
Speaker 1: And so you acknowledged within me that day that I
9:32
Speaker 1: had taken no responsibility for the part that I'd played
9:34
Speaker 1: in it, right, And so I never once had looked
9:37
Speaker 1: at him and like, how does this hurt you? And
9:40
Speaker 1: how did I play a role in that, and so
9:43
Speaker 1: it completely And I always say, like, miracles happen within
9:47
Speaker 1: your relationships when your perspective changes, for sure, Like it's
9:51
Speaker 1: never when you go on your trip and then you
9:53
Speaker 1: come back, like so many couples think, well, when we
9:55
Speaker 1: go on this trip and we get back, everything is
9:58
Speaker 1: going to be okay.
9:58
Speaker 2: Now it's going to be the same, the same dumb
10:01
Speaker 2: people you started out.
10:03
Speaker 1: Miracles happen within your relationships or within life in general
10:07
Speaker 1: when your prospective shifts. And so that moment was just
10:10
Speaker 1: so beautiful and I was actually able to go back
10:12
Speaker 1: to my husband and just say, hey, you know, I've
10:17
Speaker 1: I've you know, I know I was being so aggressive
10:19
Speaker 1: in my questioning of why you continue to do this
10:22
Speaker 1: and never really looking within and in the fact that
10:26
Speaker 1: you know, I have overshared these things about my past
10:30
Speaker 1: and maybe you're not feeling subconsciously, subconsciously, you're not feeling like,
10:35
Speaker 1: sure you're up to par which is the furthest thing
10:38
Speaker 1: from the truth, right, the furthest thing from the truth.
10:41
Speaker 1: But I feel like it was just and it was
10:43
Speaker 1: such a beautiful moment too within our relationship because it
10:46
Speaker 1: allowed us to get closer, yeah, which is what conflict
10:50
Speaker 1: should do.
10:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, conflict should bring about more closeness and more trust
10:55
Speaker 2: because when conflict is solved kindly and lovingly and respectfully,
11:01
Speaker 2: and it leads to deeper understanding of yourself and your partner,
11:05
Speaker 2: it creates more trust. But so many people are stuck
11:08
Speaker 2: in the worst, most toxic conflict cycles and they are
11:13
Speaker 2: insanely defensive and defensiveness and being offended is the death
11:19
Speaker 2: of any relationship. And I truly believe that your level
11:24
Speaker 2: of defensiveness is a complete mirror of your own self worth. Yeah.
11:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
11:31
Speaker 2: If you feel the need to defend yourself so strongly,
11:34
Speaker 2: you must not know who you are.
11:36
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you don't feel worthy enough.
11:38
Speaker 2: Yeah you don't. You know, if you have no tolerance
11:42
Speaker 2: for somebody having a perspective of you that doesn't quite
11:45
Speaker 2: match your own, you must not be really solid and
11:49
Speaker 2: what you know to be true about yourself.
11:52
Speaker 1: And the thing that like that mentality, I think the
11:54
Speaker 1: reason it baffles me so much is it's because there's
11:57
Speaker 1: no growth in it, and so I'm like, why would
11:58
Speaker 1: people want to get stuck there? Why are people why
12:01
Speaker 1: do people get stuck there and then can't move out
12:04
Speaker 1: of it?
12:05
Speaker 2: I see people every day that cannot apologize, that cannot
12:11
Speaker 2: take a shred or lick of accountability zero percent self awareness.
12:18
Speaker 2: Only can point the finger at their partner, only can
12:20
Speaker 2: blame shift that continually justify their bad behavior, like, well,
12:26
Speaker 2: I did this toxic thing, but it was because my
12:28
Speaker 2: partner did that toxic thing first. It's the mentality of
12:33
Speaker 2: a five year old and it's a trauma. It's it's
12:35
Speaker 2: relational trauma where you know, the ego is so big, right,
12:43
Speaker 2: and if you want to get Freudian, it's like that
12:45
Speaker 2: super ego didn't really develop properly, right, and it's just
12:53
Speaker 2: it's so hard to get through. It takes a lot
12:56
Speaker 2: of work to break that barrier with my clients that
13:00
Speaker 2: are like that, and they're usually they have some avoidance.
13:03
Speaker 2: Most of the times that the worst is the fearful
13:06
Speaker 2: avoidant who leans dismissive. They're they're the worst. Yeah, They're
13:09
Speaker 2: the absolute worst because they have the deepest need to
13:13
Speaker 2: be understood. So if they feel misunderstood, even in the
13:16
Speaker 2: slightest way, they get extremely defensive.
13:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've coached. I can think of the one that
13:23
Speaker 1: that I coached that is probably was probably the most
13:26
Speaker 1: severe in terms of being the fearful avoidant who leans dismissive,
13:30
Speaker 1: and nothing I could say would dismantle his defensiveness. Nothing.
13:37
Speaker 1: It was always about his partner. It was always, well,
13:40
Speaker 1: she does this, and therefore I can't do this right,
13:44
Speaker 1: And I mean it's the definition of resentment.
13:47
Speaker 2: And it's just this, it's this transactional model of relationships
13:51
Speaker 2: that just isn't representative of love. You know. Well I
13:55
Speaker 2: always tell you know, and I get this on my
13:58
Speaker 2: videos on social media. Why do I have to be
14:01
Speaker 2: the one to change first? Why can't they change first?
14:03
Speaker 2: And I'm already like, you're not capable, You're not ready, right,
14:08
Speaker 2: I mean, what was it Gandhi said, be the change
14:10
Speaker 2: you want to see in the world, Be the change
14:12
Speaker 2: you want to see in your relationship. Yeah, see how
14:15
Speaker 2: that works out for you? It's going to work out
14:18
Speaker 2: better works.
14:20
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, like again, talking about like the
14:24
Speaker 1: person that that God truly wants you to be, like
14:27
Speaker 1: that is Jesus.
14:29
Speaker 2: Like, oh yeah, that is way. Is life down for
14:33
Speaker 2: everyone for the murderer, the liar, the thief. You know,
14:38
Speaker 2: he laid it, He laid his life down for everyone.
14:40
Speaker 2: And you can't even apologize, you know, like, think of
14:45
Speaker 2: the vast difference if you can't even apologize and take accountability.
14:50
Speaker 2: And I always have people what if I'm not wrong?
14:52
Speaker 2: What if I'm not wrong? And my answer to that
14:55
Speaker 2: question is does it matter? Would you rather be right
14:59
Speaker 2: or would you rather be loving? And does it matter?
15:03
Speaker 2: And is it really a question of right or wrong?
15:05
Speaker 2: Or is it really a question of whose reality feels
15:07
Speaker 2: more correct? Right? Right? Because everybody's entitled to their own reality.
15:12
Speaker 2: Two people can go through the exact same situation and
15:15
Speaker 2: experience it immensely differently, So what good does it do
15:19
Speaker 2: to argue that you didn't see it through my lens perfectly?
15:22
Speaker 2: So we can't move on?
15:23
Speaker 1: Right? And I mean just finding a solution where like
15:27
Speaker 1: you just radically accept that maybe this thing about your
15:30
Speaker 1: partner is okay. Right, it's okay, I mean as long
15:34
Speaker 1: as it's not like cheating and abuse, right, but maybe
15:38
Speaker 1: like you know, like I understand that Josh, like I
15:43
Speaker 1: understand that sometimes his insecurities come out if he feels
15:46
Speaker 1: like I'm not giving him all my attention. I understand
15:51
Speaker 1: this about him, and in turn, like this is what
15:53
Speaker 1: partnership should be. Like I'm a mirror for him, right,
15:56
Speaker 1: so I show him like, no, this isn't okay. And
16:00
Speaker 1: so then you know, that fight, that one fight that
16:03
Speaker 1: we've had, has become less and less over the years. Yeah, right, right,
16:06
Speaker 1: because we've come to an understanding and a mutual solution.
16:11
Speaker 1: Like nobody's right or wrong.
16:12
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Like, I mean, it's you know, here's the thing.
16:17
Speaker 2: Reality is so insanely subjective. It's so insanely subjective. Even
16:22
Speaker 2: our brain has an attention mechanism, right called the RAS,
16:28
Speaker 2: and it's the reticular activating system, and it pulls your
16:32
Speaker 2: attention to different things. And everybody's is developed in a
16:36
Speaker 2: little bit of a different way. So you can go
16:37
Speaker 2: through the same experience, but your attention was on a
16:39
Speaker 2: different component of that experience, and then you gave it
16:42
Speaker 2: different meaning based on what lives in your subconscious all right, right,
16:46
Speaker 2: we just talked about that in the last episode. Yeah,
16:49
Speaker 2: And so what good does it do to be like, no,
16:52
Speaker 2: my reality is cretched, No, my reality is cretched. No. Mine.
16:55
Speaker 2: Your job is to understand your partner, not to force
16:58
Speaker 2: your partner to understand you.
16:59
Speaker 1: Right.
17:00
Speaker 2: If you are forcing someone out of their reality and
17:03
Speaker 2: into your reality, that means they had to give up
17:05
Speaker 2: their reality and that doesn't ever feel good to anybody
17:07
Speaker 2: to completely have to give up what they feel like
17:09
Speaker 2: they experienced. And so a lot of people get stuck
17:12
Speaker 2: in conflict of like no I'm right, no, I'm right,
17:14
Speaker 2: No I'm right, No, I'm right, and they get stuck
17:16
Speaker 2: and then they're resentful. It never gets solved, The fights repeat,
17:20
Speaker 2: you know, it becomes more toxic and how they treat
17:23
Speaker 2: each other and speak to each other, and then it's
17:25
Speaker 2: just the relationship goes down the tubes. But when we
17:29
Speaker 2: can get past that, and when we are regulated enough
17:31
Speaker 2: in our nervous systems to go, okay, you feel this way.
17:36
Speaker 2: These were your feelings and your experiences. These were my
17:39
Speaker 2: feelings and my experiences. They're different. But where do we
17:43
Speaker 2: go from here? What is something we can do moving
17:47
Speaker 2: forward that feels good to both of us, right, so
17:51
Speaker 2: that we don't run into this particular issue again, Like,
17:55
Speaker 2: can we form some kind of compromise, Can we insert
17:59
Speaker 2: some kind of safeguard, you know, to prevent this from
18:03
Speaker 2: happening so that we both feel good. But nobody has
18:05
Speaker 2: to give up their reality, right, right, and you can
18:08
Speaker 2: acknowledge the other person's reality and try to understand it
18:11
Speaker 2: and say, I understand, you know, I understand what you're
18:13
Speaker 2: telling me. I understand this is how you feel. I
18:17
Speaker 2: personally did not experience it that way, and I do
18:20
Speaker 2: not share those feelings. I'm not going to tell you
18:22
Speaker 2: that your reality is completely wrong. I'm acknowledging that it's
18:26
Speaker 2: different than mine and and I'm open to it being different.
18:31
Speaker 2: And what does this look like moving forward? And that's
18:34
Speaker 2: a large part of the conflict resolution plan that I
18:36
Speaker 2: teach in my groups, where I really give it step
18:39
Speaker 2: by step, step one, say this step too, and like
18:42
Speaker 2: this partner has to be quiet at this time.
18:44
Speaker 1: Like it's very structured, which I know is very helpful.
18:48
Speaker 2: It is, yeah, because I mean even I have rules
18:49
Speaker 2: to follow, like the solution.
18:51
Speaker 1: For Josh and me and that specific situation, because I
18:53
Speaker 1: know it's all variable and very you know, based on
18:56
Speaker 1: what's happening in your relationship. But I just told them,
18:59
Speaker 1: you know, if it if he starts to exert that
19:02
Speaker 1: energy again next time we're out, I was like, I'm
19:05
Speaker 1: just going to choose to leave, Like you're going to know,
19:07
Speaker 1: like when I'm like, hey, I'm just I'm leaving, and
19:11
Speaker 1: then you'll know, like you'll know that that's what you're doing, right.
19:14
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make a scene. It's not going
19:15
Speaker 1: to be some rebellious behavior. I'm just going to nicely say, hey,
19:20
Speaker 1: this is turning and going in a direction that we
19:22
Speaker 1: know we've been down before, and so I'm just going
19:25
Speaker 1: to leave, right and we've agreed to that.
19:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that gives him an opportunity to stop and go, Okay,
19:31
Speaker 2: you know, am I am I triggered right now? And
19:33
Speaker 2: am I acting out that trigger right instead of? You know,
19:38
Speaker 2: and here's the like, you're very extroverted, You're very beautiful.
19:41
Speaker 2: You've lived in the city forever. You know everybody. You know,
19:45
Speaker 2: people are going to come up and talk to you,
19:47
Speaker 2: you know, men and women, and I've seen you turn
19:52
Speaker 2: down lots of men, you know. I mean then they
19:56
Speaker 2: had on you and You're like, y'all, no thanks, I'm marry.
19:59
Speaker 2: You know, I'm happy married. That's my husband up there,
20:01
Speaker 2: you know, And isn't he Isn't he cute? It's sexy
20:07
Speaker 2: and but I can't imagine you know, being Josh when
20:10
Speaker 2: he's just up there. It's just right for him to
20:13
Speaker 2: see everybody coming up to you, right, right, and you
20:16
Speaker 2: know that.
20:16
Speaker 1: Bird's eye view sort of right, you know, and I
20:18
Speaker 1: like it.
20:19
Speaker 2: Hey, dude, why are you talking to my wife? Right?
20:21
Speaker 2: You know? And it would probably sting a little.
20:24
Speaker 1: Bit, absolutely, And he gave a good analogy. He was like,
20:27
Speaker 1: think about like if you were up on stage teaching
20:29
Speaker 1: jazz er size for an hour and I'm like in
20:31
Speaker 1: the crowd, like talking to like attractive women, I'm like, okay,
20:36
Speaker 1: fair enough. Like it may be like like yeah, but
20:40
Speaker 1: I don't think that I would. You know, it doesn't matter.
20:43
Speaker 1: I'm not, you know. I We're different people and you know,
20:46
Speaker 1: and we're growing, you know, I mean, we're learning, and
20:50
Speaker 1: that's I mean, and that's the beauty of marriage, it is,
20:54
Speaker 1: you know, is that you get to see where you
20:57
Speaker 1: need to change.
20:59
Speaker 2: And people, though, are so resistant to that. They are
21:02
Speaker 2: they are, Oh, they're so resistant to that. I mean,
21:06
Speaker 2: so many couples that I coach come in and they
21:09
Speaker 2: start out with this mentality of it's just all their fault.
21:12
Speaker 2: Can you fix them? Yeah? Right?
21:14
Speaker 1: Yeah?
21:15
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, I am baffled by how many
21:19
Speaker 2: humans truly believe that they operate one hundred percent perfectly. Yeah,
21:25
Speaker 2: and they are completely above reproach and that they they
21:29
Speaker 2: have no self reflection or growth to do or improvement
21:33
Speaker 2: to do.
21:34
Speaker 1: It's like, wow, such a naive view.
21:37
Speaker 2: But I mean, is that coming from this? I think
21:40
Speaker 2: in some people it comes from this like insanely narcissistic place,
21:45
Speaker 2: and then other people, I think it comes from a
21:47
Speaker 2: severely wounded and damaged place, place of pain. Sure of
21:51
Speaker 2: severe pain. And even the theory around narcissism is starting
21:56
Speaker 2: to change, Like there's people who have really challenged the
21:59
Speaker 2: whole core shame and that's what drives narcissism. No, they
22:03
Speaker 2: really think they are that great? Yeah, do you know,
22:05
Speaker 2: like they really truly believe that they are that special. Yeah,
22:08
Speaker 2: And that's really that, you know. I think it was
22:10
Speaker 2: Craig Malkin. Maybe I can't remember. He wrote a book
22:14
Speaker 2: about like the new views on narcissism, and some of
22:18
Speaker 2: the new science is really suggesting it's not about core shame.
22:22
Speaker 2: Like they really just do believe they are that great.
22:24
Speaker 1: I've been very close to a narciss system and I
22:26
Speaker 1: can honestly say, no, he really thinks he's that great.
22:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's one. It's not a persona, it's not a
22:35
Speaker 2: shield or defense mechanism. I don't know, you know.
22:38
Speaker 1: We could go down that rabbit hole. Well, we'll do
22:40
Speaker 1: another episode.
22:41
Speaker 2: On narcissism, yeah, because I have a lot to say
22:43
Speaker 2: about narcissm. But bringing it back to that how does
22:45
Speaker 2: this hurt you? You have to be non defensive enough
22:50
Speaker 2: to ask that question, not only about yourself but about
22:53
Speaker 2: your partner, right, Yeah, And gosh, I'm always asking why
22:58
Speaker 2: do I do what I do?
23:00
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, and I think the reason why it's such
23:02
Speaker 1: a difficult question for people to ask one themselves is
23:06
Speaker 1: because they have to come face to face with their
23:09
Speaker 1: own pain, yeah, which is really difficult for people. And
23:12
Speaker 1: then of course asking their partner the question of how
23:16
Speaker 1: does this hurt you? Then they're triggered by their partner's
23:19
Speaker 1: pain for sure. So then it becomes hard for them
23:21
Speaker 1: to ask that question to their partner too, because they're
23:23
Speaker 1: triggered either.
23:24
Speaker 2: Way, right, And their partner might be hurting because of
23:27
Speaker 2: something that they did, and they have to face the
23:29
Speaker 2: fact that they're not a perfect human being and may
23:33
Speaker 2: have operated in a way that hurt your partner. And
23:36
Speaker 2: what I tell people all the time is like you
23:40
Speaker 2: need to learn to love your partner in a way
23:43
Speaker 2: that they need to be loved. That is part of
23:46
Speaker 2: the true definition of love. You don't just love someone
23:49
Speaker 2: in a way that you think they should be loved
23:51
Speaker 2: or that makes sense to you. And I give this
23:53
Speaker 2: analogy in my practice. You know, my husband loves to
23:57
Speaker 2: have is backscratched. He thinks it's wonderful. He would just
24:00
Speaker 2: let me do it all day long, you know, And
24:03
Speaker 2: I actually, like, I'm very sensitive, and you know, I
24:06
Speaker 2: think from all the years of drama, and I don't
24:10
Speaker 2: really like my back being scratched unless I have an
24:12
Speaker 2: itch and it's just like scratch it and then stop.
24:13
Speaker 1: Same.
24:14
Speaker 2: I just don't like the feeling of nails on my skin.
24:17
Speaker 2: And so what if he was just like coming up
24:19
Speaker 2: to me and scratching my back all the time, and
24:20
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I don't like that. It doesn't feel good,
24:23
Speaker 2: and he's like, well, I like it. I think it's
24:24
Speaker 2: a great feeling. What's wrong with you? You're just too sensitive?
24:27
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep doing it. That would make no sense.
24:29
Speaker 2: Most people can hear that example and go that's ridiculous.
24:33
Speaker 2: But we do it to our partners emotionally, right, I'm
24:36
Speaker 2: going to do things that I know hurt you. You've
24:39
Speaker 2: said that that this hurts you, and I'm just going
24:41
Speaker 2: to keep doing it because I think you shouldn't be
24:43
Speaker 2: hurt by it. You're over sensitive. It's the same thing.
24:47
Speaker 2: It's immature, it's unaware, it's lack of accountability, it's unwillingness
24:56
Speaker 2: to love in the way that God wants us to love,
25:00
Speaker 2: which is, you know, yeah, learn about your partner's pain
25:04
Speaker 2: and sidestep that if you can right or help them
25:07
Speaker 2: work through.
25:07
Speaker 1: It, because that is gas lighting. Yeah, to be like,
25:13
Speaker 1: oh this hurts you, well, okay, well sorry about you.
25:16
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, you're too sensitive. Yeah, oh
25:18
Speaker 1: you just told me that doesn't feel good to you.
25:20
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're so sensitive.
25:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:23
Speaker 1: Oh that's like my pet peeves.
25:24
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that people aren't too sensitive. I've
25:27
Speaker 2: been too sensitive to my entire life and it's been
25:30
Speaker 2: a blessing and a curse. And I try to work
25:32
Speaker 2: on that. I try to work on because I have
25:35
Speaker 2: become largely unoffendable. I think I've really really so much
25:40
Speaker 2: progress on my level of sensitivity. I mean, I'm you know,
25:43
Speaker 2: I'm fairly bulletproof. But at the same time, I do
25:47
Speaker 2: still have some wounding that if triggered, it would be
25:53
Speaker 2: more difficult for me to work through. I mean I
25:56
Speaker 2: could probably still hold my own and be pretty arming
26:00
Speaker 2: and conscious and how I responded. But my husband knows
26:03
Speaker 2: that about me, so he doesn't do it right, right,
26:06
Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't do it because he would be like, wow,
26:10
Speaker 2: my partner would my wife would really be hurt by that. Yeah,
26:15
Speaker 2: And people would be weg on eggshells. Oh, really learning
26:17
Speaker 2: to love someone in the way that they need to
26:19
Speaker 2: be loved as an individual human being who's had their
26:22
Speaker 2: own unique experiences in life and unique hurts and wounds
26:25
Speaker 2: and pain. That's walking on eggshells. Maybe you just don't
26:28
Speaker 2: deserve to be in a relationship.
26:30
Speaker 1: Or maybe you just don't know what love is like.
26:32
Speaker 1: That's because that is the definition of love.
26:34
Speaker 2: It is.
26:35
Speaker 1: Love is sacrificial very much. So. Yeah, and it's and
26:38
Speaker 1: it's just acknowledging, hey, like it's it's okay, right, it's
26:42
Speaker 1: okay that this person is this way and it's different
26:45
Speaker 1: than me, and I still love them regardless, right, right,
26:48
Speaker 1: And I think that's why God loves marriage for those reasons.
26:51
Speaker 2: Right.
26:52
Speaker 1: If you can be sacrificial.
26:54
Speaker 2: Absolutely and you know, I'm not all about complete self
26:58
Speaker 2: abandonment and not having bound either. I mean, people could
27:01
Speaker 2: take it that far, and that's not what I'm saying.
27:04
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is that all human beings have pain,
27:09
Speaker 2: and sometimes we do have to set the ultimate boundary
27:12
Speaker 2: and say you've got to go get some help for
27:13
Speaker 2: that pain because the way that it makes you behave
27:16
Speaker 2: is intolerable to me and I can't be around for it.
27:19
Speaker 2: That happens. But when we generally have someone that just
27:26
Speaker 2: is doing their best, and they're generally you know, loving
27:29
Speaker 2: kind human being, but they have a button right that
27:32
Speaker 2: you shouldn't push. Don't push it, right, don't push it.
27:37
Speaker 2: I mean I have a trigger around drinking. I was
27:42
Speaker 2: married to an alcoholic for ten years who ultimately died
27:47
Speaker 2: from it, and the father of my children. And so
27:51
Speaker 2: when Donald drinks, he's very careful not to overdrink, not
27:56
Speaker 2: to drink to the point where he in any way
28:00
Speaker 2: would sound different, look different. You know, he doesn't really
28:04
Speaker 2: drink liquor. It's you know, a couple of beers and
28:08
Speaker 2: then that's it.
28:09
Speaker 1: Yeah.
28:10
Speaker 2: Could he probably drink more, yes, But would he want
28:12
Speaker 2: to trigger me and make me feel uncomfortable.
28:15
Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, and you guys have had to evolve
28:20
Speaker 1: and yeah, and that's like that. I feel like that too,
28:22
Speaker 1: is like something that people are too willing to give
28:25
Speaker 1: up in relationships and marriage too, like when the when
28:30
Speaker 1: the tiniest thing goes astray, like or some you know,
28:32
Speaker 1: their partner does something that they don't like, or their
28:34
Speaker 1: partner just does something that they're like, oh my gosh.
28:36
Speaker 1: You know, people are just too willing. I feel like
28:40
Speaker 1: in our parents' generation, like they weren't willing enough to
28:43
Speaker 1: give up, and then our generation comes along and we
28:45
Speaker 1: give up too easy, yes, and sure, and it can't
28:48
Speaker 1: be that way. I just can't because it's not always
28:50
Speaker 1: that detrimental, right Well.
28:52
Speaker 2: Part of the problem I think with our parents' generation is, yeah,
28:56
Speaker 2: they didn't give up, but also they weren't willing to
28:59
Speaker 2: change them selves, right they had I think I'm just
29:03
Speaker 2: going to speak for my parents. My parents have very
29:05
Speaker 2: little self reflective ability. I mean, they just it was
29:10
Speaker 2: like they are who they are, right right right.
29:12
Speaker 1: Well. It's it's funny because I think my dad definitely
29:15
Speaker 1: had more than my mother, and I'd say my dad
29:19
Speaker 1: had more trauma than my mom, and which is another
29:23
Speaker 1: interesting thing if we think about it, like, does the
29:28
Speaker 1: more trauma you have make you at times more introspective?
29:31
Speaker 1: I think it it could depend, you know, because I've
29:35
Speaker 1: seen both. I've seen both within your practice and coaching
29:38
Speaker 1: for sure. Like I've seen a lot of fas who
29:40
Speaker 1: are like super super I feel like the ones who
29:44
Speaker 1: aren't as introspective are the ones who lean avoidant.
29:46
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's the FADA. That's why I say, like
29:48
Speaker 2: the FADA is like, yeah, so hard, and the true
29:51
Speaker 2: dismissive is not very introspective. They don't even have you know,
29:55
Speaker 2: so many das don't even have a stream of consciousness.
29:58
Speaker 1: Now that baffles me, Like I can't even rep my mom,
30:00
Speaker 1: like my mind around that, yes, Like it doesn't make sense.
30:03
Speaker 2: For our listeners. Stream of consciousness is the ability to
30:06
Speaker 2: hear your own voice in your head. Yeah. Yeah, And
30:09
Speaker 2: there's different levels of consciousness, Like you can think conceptually
30:12
Speaker 2: without a voice in your head. Yeah, And that's the
30:15
Speaker 2: lowest level of consciousness. You think in concepts, right, and
30:19
Speaker 2: then you have to concentrate on putting forming words to
30:22
Speaker 2: those concepts, and so it's an extremely slow processing right Yeah.
30:27
Speaker 2: And then we have the fas have. Usually that lean
30:32
Speaker 2: more anxious have a higher level of consciousness where their
30:35
Speaker 2: brain speaks right like my brain is like a day.
30:41
Speaker 2: And then there are people who reach the highest level
30:44
Speaker 2: of consciousness. Well, there may be even higher levels than this.
30:48
Speaker 2: I would say, a higher level of consciousness of observing
30:51
Speaker 2: their own thoughts in real time and challenging their thoughts
30:54
Speaker 2: in real time. Right, So there's I don't even think
30:56
Speaker 2: in words. I think in words all the time, but
30:59
Speaker 2: I accept whatever those were words are, and then I
31:01
Speaker 2: think in words, but as they come in, I challenge
31:03
Speaker 2: them from a higher place itself.
31:06
Speaker 1: That's the goal.
31:06
Speaker 2: That's the goal. That's what I teach people to do.
31:10
Speaker 2: And you know what I think is interesting. A lot
31:12
Speaker 2: of people in my groups are talking about rumination, and
31:15
Speaker 2: they're ruminating thoughts that keep them very stuck in defensiveness. Right.
31:22
Speaker 2: It keeps them stuck in like this defensive responding because
31:25
Speaker 2: they can't let go of some pain or issue. It
31:28
Speaker 2: constantly comes up, right and sort of almost rehurts them,
31:31
Speaker 2: retraumatizes them all over again. And some of us have
31:36
Speaker 2: brains that are built towards rumination. Trauma causes rumination as well,
31:41
Speaker 2: but they don't know how to beat that, to take
31:44
Speaker 2: their defensiveness down right, because every time they try, that
31:47
Speaker 2: thought about how hurtful it is just comes right back.
31:51
Speaker 2: And what I tell them is, well, when you learn
31:54
Speaker 2: the metacognitive skills, you have to confront that really untry
32:00
Speaker 2: or very catastrophic thought with the same exact logical response
32:06
Speaker 2: over and over and over and over again. And the
32:10
Speaker 2: funniest thing just hit me today before this podcast. My
32:12
Speaker 2: brain is still a very ruminating brain. I still have
32:15
Speaker 2: a very ruminating brain. Do you know what my brain is?
32:17
Speaker 2: What's going through my brain all day long? Songs and
32:20
Speaker 2: TikTok sounds because my brain is happy. So when negative
32:26
Speaker 2: thoughts come in and my brain's like, she doesn't participate
32:28
Speaker 2: in that, and I shove those, I'm like, no bye
32:30
Speaker 2: in the name of Jesus. Like, all that my brain
32:33
Speaker 2: knows to do is just bebop along to songs all
32:35
Speaker 2: day because my brain is like a radio. I wonder
32:39
Speaker 2: if there's anybody else out there who has like a
32:40
Speaker 2: radio in their brain.
32:41
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Sometimes I wake up every morning and
32:43
Speaker 1: I'll have a different song in my head. Yeah, And
32:45
Speaker 1: I think that is kind of the sign of a
32:48
Speaker 1: really happy, healthy, joyful brain.
32:50
Speaker 2: Yeah that is still that's still ruminating sure, right because
32:53
Speaker 2: of probably of trauma, but for circumstances. Right, But if
32:57
Speaker 2: you're going to pick something to ruminate on, music, I
33:00
Speaker 2: mean music issolutely.
33:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean music's healing.
33:03
Speaker 2: It is so healing and it's wonderful and so yeah,
33:07
Speaker 2: that's my sign of like my brain used to be
33:10
Speaker 2: ruminating negative thoughts and now it's just like it's.
33:13
Speaker 1: Just like yeah, yeah, tunes in it.
33:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
33:19
Speaker 1: I think that's great. Well, I know that specifically within
33:23
Speaker 1: your practice, I think that I think the thing that
33:26
Speaker 1: really sets you apart, it makes you different than say therapy, right,
33:31
Speaker 1: traditional therapy is that you really take people past the
33:35
Speaker 1: understanding of their pain. Yes and yes, and and it's
33:39
Speaker 1: such a beautiful thing because what people don't acknowledge is
33:43
Speaker 1: that understanding is not enough.
33:45
Speaker 2: It's not enough. Understanding does not equal healing. Right. I
33:49
Speaker 2: knew why I was messed up for a.
33:50
Speaker 1: Lot of you.
33:51
Speaker 2: Your wounds, I knew it. I know that I knew
33:53
Speaker 2: where they came from. Yeah, I knew pivotal moments in
33:56
Speaker 2: my life that they could be mapped to. I knew
33:59
Speaker 2: that my res sponsors weren't healthy. I had self awareness
34:03
Speaker 2: and understanding was not my problem. I had a PhD
34:06
Speaker 2: in this stuff, and I still behaved poorly. I still
34:10
Speaker 2: was anxious and miserable. Because there's a mediator. There's a
34:14
Speaker 2: step in between understanding and becoming different, and that step
34:19
Speaker 2: is building your capacity to execute the new behaviors right implementation.
34:24
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's building your capacity to implement. It's like
34:27
Speaker 2: having a car and you look at that car and
34:29
Speaker 2: you're like, well, it's supposed to go. It has the
34:31
Speaker 2: steering wheel, has brakes, it has a gas, it has
34:33
Speaker 2: an ignition, But when I turn the key, nothing happens.
34:36
Speaker 2: I know what the car is supposed to do, but
34:38
Speaker 2: I don't know how to fix the car right. And
34:41
Speaker 2: then it's like, oh, the car has no gas in it. Right.
34:44
Speaker 2: So capacity building is like putting gas in the gas tank, right,
34:49
Speaker 2: But most people are walking around and they don't even
34:51
Speaker 2: know that the gas tank's empty. They have no idea,
34:53
Speaker 2: and they have no idea how to fill up the car. Right.
34:56
Speaker 2: So that's what I do. I have helped build people's
34:58
Speaker 2: capacity through becoming an authority over your thought world, through
35:02
Speaker 2: training your nervous system to stay regulated and to know
35:06
Speaker 2: what the correct healthy behaviors are. That then you have
35:10
Speaker 2: the capacity to execute.
35:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's freedom. And you know, if you're if
35:14
Speaker 1: you are dealing with pain, which we all are, Yeah,
35:18
Speaker 1: but you want to get past the point of understanding
35:21
Speaker 1: your pain and really get to this place of freedom
35:24
Speaker 1: where your relationships are thriving and the tunes in your
35:27
Speaker 1: head are just TikTok beatboppin'. Yeah. Then you can see
35:32
Speaker 1: all of doctor Hensley's services at her website at the
35:35
Speaker 1: Datingdecoder dot com and listen. Guys, if you've enjoyed this
35:38
Speaker 1: episode and the episodes prior and the episodes to come,
35:42
Speaker 1: please like, share, and subscribe. We are so happy that
35:46
Speaker 1: you are here, and we are just so happy and
35:48
Speaker 1: grateful to be sharing this knowledge with you. Doctor Hensley
35:51
Speaker 1: is listen. I've known her for almost seven years and
35:54
Speaker 1: I still learned things from her. So there's more to come,
35:57
Speaker 1: and please stay tuned and until then, love, peace, light,
36:01
Speaker 1: and perspective. Farewell.