Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 24. Amanda O'Reilly on having 3 kids, a successful sales career and figuring out how to prioritize mental health

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24. Amanda O'Reilly on having 3 kids, a successful sales career and figuring out how to prioritize mental health · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
The reality is, I've had to make a lot of sacrifices in my
0:04
professional life, but that's been an active choice because at
0:08
the end of the day, my kids, my husband, my family comes before
0:12
anything and everything. And so to make those sacrifices
0:15
at work or to lower the bar of what I expect of myself at work,
0:19
is something that I've actively chosen to do, you know, in
0:22
exchange for being more present as a mom Welcome to the all
0:27
figured out podcast. I'm Andrea bar.
0:29
And today, you just heard from Amanda O'Reilly, who is joining
0:33
us on the mic? She is an incredibly successful
0:37
Tech sales, professional. A mom of three, a wife, and
0:41
somebody. I can attest to being an
0:43
incredibly wonderful friend. Our husbands have been best
0:46
friends since they were kids and I really hit the jackpot in
0:49
terms of marrying into this friendship with Amanda.
0:52
I've always told her that it's she's just somebody that I would
0:54
have chosen to be my My friend had her husband's, not known
0:57
each other. Amanda is a few years ahead of
0:59
me in her parenting journey, and has been such a huge inspiration
1:03
and wealth of parenting knowledge for me in this episode
1:06
Amanda shares. Very candidly about what it's
1:09
been like to move into the parenting chapter, as someone
1:12
who's worked, incredibly hard to grow her career in the very
1:16
male-dominated, eat what you kill world of sales and
1:20
specifically Tech sales, which is even more male dominated.
1:25
She shares about her different experiences with having and
1:27
raising each of her three kids. What her maternity leaves have
1:31
looked like how mental health has played a part in helping her
1:34
recognize the importance of self-care and advocating for
1:38
herself. I know so many of you listening
1:40
are going to resonate with the articulate way, that Amanda
1:43
describes the wild ride of striving to be an amazing parent
1:47
while also wanting to continue to grow your career of what she
1:51
has done. So with that, let's get into the
1:54
interview. You.
1:56
You're listening to the all figured out podcast, I'm your
1:59
host Aundrea bar. As a career coach for parents, a
2:04
mom and entrepreneur. And someone who spent ten plus
2:06
years in the corporate world, I still don't have it all figured
2:09
out and maybe you don't. Either this podcast, I'll share
2:13
tools and strategies that I use as my clients and in the many
2:17
areas where I don't have things figured out.
2:19
I'll be bringing you some amazing guest experts to help us
2:21
fill in the gaps. So tune in each week as we
2:24
explore how to make career and life decisions that truly work
2:28
for you, your family and your big goals.
2:31
Let's make moves. Amanda O'Reilly.
2:35
Thank you so much for joining me on the all figured out podcast.
2:39
We have been friends for many years now and it's such a treat
2:42
to get to talk to you in this way and just pepper you with
2:45
questions. So, thank you again for joining
2:47
likewise, thank you for having me.
2:49
This feels like so funny because I've been listening to your
2:53
podcast for religiously and so it's cool to actually be on it.
2:56
I can't wait for people to listen.
2:58
For those who don't know, you could you share a bit about your
3:00
career and your family story and How those two of kind of just
3:04
unfolded together? Sure.
3:06
Yeah. So as you mentioned, I'm Amanda
3:09
O'Reilly and I'm a born and raised in Vancouver, right?
3:12
I've lived in Vancouver my entire life, with the exception
3:15
of a year, long stint that I did down in Seattle for my job.
3:20
But I'm currently residing in North Vancouver with my husband
3:22
and three little ones, six four and six months I am in
3:29
technology sales as you know. So I've Work in technology sales
3:34
for my entire career. I started right out of
3:36
University in technology Recruitment and moved through
3:41
recruitment into account management.
3:43
We're actually pivoted from internal or into what we call
3:45
inside sales, where I'm selling to internal colleagues to actual
3:49
external sales, where I'm selling to clients, and I did
3:53
that for about 7 years and then I made the move to technology
3:59
research and consulting firm. And I worked there shortly after
4:02
my husband. I got married and I did five and
4:05
a half years there and and then pivoted from research and
4:09
Consulting to software right? In the midst of the pandemic.
4:12
So that was an exciting and scary change, but that's where
4:17
I'm at today. I currently work for a software
4:19
sales company called workiva. We sell financial reporting
4:23
software to Fortune 100 to 3,000 organizations across the globe.
4:27
Oh my goodness. And you have done this these
4:31
pivots at these big career Moves while having three babies
4:35
correct? Yes, yeah, I went through my
4:38
first two maternity leaves with the technology research and
4:41
consulting firm, and then I returned from my second, leave
4:45
to that company in February of 2020.
4:48
And then the pandemic it and my I was very fortunate to retain
4:52
my job, but it was a tough go for a long time.
4:57
And I think I took that as a sign to move on and try
5:00
something else and I'd had my eye on SAS or what we Call an
5:03
industry fast. Software-as-a-service sales for
5:06
a long time, and an opportunity came up to join a company
5:10
pivoting into that space and I haven't really looked back, so
5:15
amazing. And I always looked up, look up
5:18
to you, as a mom. You had started to have babies
5:20
before we did and you're just such a badass career woman and a
5:26
wonderful mom. So we are going to get into
5:28
that. But I want to ask you just and
5:31
you've been able to share this with me over the years.
5:33
Can you break down sales for us? Over those listening, who are
5:36
starting to contemplate a career shift and they're like, I just
5:39
feel like there's something about sales that draws me to it,
5:42
but I actually don't really know what that is.
5:43
Could you kind of break down, like, what is sales?
5:45
What are the different types of sales?
5:47
Like I know you've talked about, you know, a couple different
5:49
avenues like if you were to explain it to a preschooler.
5:52
How would you describe it? Sure.
5:55
So I actually really didn't know much about sales either and I
5:58
did my undergraduate degree at UBC in philosophy and English
6:01
literature. I had no intention of going Into
6:03
sales. I didn't have a background in
6:04
Commerce or marketing or Finance, or many of those kind
6:07
of disciplines that fit into the role of sales, a little bit
6:11
better, but my dad was in sales for 30 years and was really
6:14
successful. So I guess it's in my blood a
6:16
little bit. I would say, the big thing to
6:19
note about sales is that it's not an operational job.
6:23
And when I say operational, I mean, when you take a role,
6:26
maybe in a marketing, or Communications Department, or
6:29
you're in a supportive role, in an organization, where it's a
6:31
bit more of a, 25 punch in punch out.
6:35
You know you've got lots of responsibilities while you're at
6:37
work, but you have the ability to kind of leave those
6:39
responsibilities at the door or to the best of your ability.
6:42
At the end of the day like sales is very much, a job that follows
6:47
you around the clock because in my industry, you can either be
6:52
paid a base plus commission or just a commission and that
6:55
commission is very much a you eat what you kill type of gigs.
7:00
So the amount that you put into the job is You're going to get
7:03
out of it, both financially. And I think also just from a
7:06
achievement standpoint and I support Enterprise Fortune, 100,
7:11
and 500 organizations that have globally dispersed business
7:14
units. And I've been in a Enterprise
7:16
sales role for the better part of my career.
7:18
So emails come in at all hours of the day and I'm held to an
7:23
aggressive sales Target. So there's not really an honor
7:26
off button if you will. The number of times I wake up in
7:29
the middle of the night and checking email and then
7:32
embarrassingly enough Respond to that.
7:33
Email is pretty countless. So I would say that's the big,
7:38
the big thing to note about going into a career in sales, is
7:41
that it's incredibly fast paced, it's really competitive and it's
7:45
very demanding on your time, both, mentally and physically,
7:48
but if you are the type of person that craves that kind of
7:52
a challenge in the workplace, then it's an awesome place to
7:54
be. And the other cool thing about
7:56
sales is that most of the time, your earning potential is your
8:00
commission is Limitless, it really is a matter of you.
8:03
Do as much as you sell is what you're going to get compensated
8:05
on. And there really is like the
8:06
sky's the limit in terms of that.
8:07
So it can be a really financially, rewarding career as
8:10
well. Which a lot of people don't I
8:11
think maybe don't realize, mmm and giving you worked at a few.
8:16
You haven't bounced around by any means but you've worked at a
8:18
few very different organizations.
8:20
What is the learning curve? Like, when you kind of go from
8:23
one organism organization to another, within the sale of
8:26
world? Yeah, great.
8:28
That's a great question. I mean, I would say I've learned
8:32
a number of failed It ologies in my career.
8:34
So every organization of the four companies, I've worked for
8:38
since, you know, since starting in the workforce, two of them
8:41
use the same methodology and other to use different
8:43
methodologies but really, at the end of the day, like a sales
8:46
methodology of the sales methodology, right?
8:48
And there's a lot of similarities between them.
8:50
So I would say like that the day in and day out of what's
8:54
required, to build a relationship with a client build
8:58
rapport, and Trust understand their business, understand
9:01
things like their corporate objectives.
9:03
Understand pain points. We talk a lot about those in
9:05
sales and how to address those pain points with our Solutions
9:07
and services, it's pretty cut and dry across the board.
9:11
There's not a whole, you know, a whole lot of variety or range
9:14
there. But the big difference is in
9:17
shifting, organizations, I would say is culturally because every
9:20
company is different and the four organizations I've worked
9:23
for all have very different cultures and also from a product
9:28
standpoint, right? So when I was selling people as
9:31
a service in Recruitment and I went to selling research and
9:34
Consulting, those were intangible things, and that was
9:37
a very different cell than what I felt today which is an actual
9:40
tangible product and selling software.
9:41
So there's differences there and there's learning curves that
9:45
come with that. But for the most part, the
9:48
transition has been fortunately pretty seamless that because
9:51
every culture has been great. But come with some differences
9:54
and the sales process has been relatively similar.
9:58
Yeah, that's so interesting. Okay, I have to ask how has the
10:01
knowledge that you have in sales now, translated into your
10:04
personal life, like I just picture use this like sharp
10:06
shooter with a contractor like hell what is it look like
10:11
day-to-day or like negotiating whatever?
10:14
Yeah I mean Trevor will tell you that he does not like
10:17
negotiating with me because I usually win but that might just
10:22
be because he surrenders more quickly, I'm very stubborn.
10:25
So and set in my ways I don't think it's so much of a like
10:28
skillset as much as it's like an inequality, he's very laid-back.
10:33
Easygoing and I am not so, you know, I would say I am a
10:39
different person at work, that I am in my personal life, for
10:42
sure, and I'm not afraid to admit.
10:43
I think I used to be afraid of that because I didn't want
10:45
people thinking that I was like someone I'm not when I'm at work
10:50
versus at home, but the reality is like how I perform at work.
10:53
And having a little bit more of an assertive approach to my
10:57
work. Has served me really well, but I
10:59
recognize that that's not who I am as a person and in my life.
11:02
Life, you know, I am definitely softer more compassionate.
11:08
I don't want to see gentler person but yeah, there's
11:11
definite. There's differences between who
11:13
I present as a professional and who and how I present as a mom
11:16
and a wife and her friend. Yeah, well you're in at that.
11:19
From what I understand, you're in a pretty male-dominated
11:21
industry. You always have been in your
11:23
career, we could also, I mean, just throw in the fact that you
11:28
live and have been born and raised in Canada, but have
11:31
always worked for American companies.
11:32
And Just cultural differences there too.
11:34
I imagine you kind of come up. I guess that.
11:37
Okay, tell me about doctors quickly though because I want to
11:39
hear like what is it like being such an empathetic compassionate
11:44
giving caring person in all aspects of your personal life?
11:47
And then just yeah, operating a bit differently in the workplace
11:53
actually in a male-dominated space.
11:56
Yeah, well, I'll address like both working for exclusively
11:59
working for us companies and working in male dominant
12:01
industry. So, Not only is sales still male
12:04
dominant today in general software.
12:06
Sales, certainly is but Technology based organization.
12:10
So, when I'm selling to technology-based clients, most
12:12
of my end users are my buyers are also male.
12:15
So, the male dominance piece, like, that's been really cool
12:20
for me because I think that's what hardened my shell a little
12:23
bit when I actually entered the workforce and realized.
12:26
Okay, I'm going to have to really like buck up and meet
12:29
these men on their level and grow a thick skin and not Be
12:33
afraid of rejection and be able to command a room, and, and set
12:38
similar expectations for myself and my clients, and my
12:41
colleagues, as my male counterparts do.
12:44
So that was a really great lesson that I was fortunate
12:46
enough to learn pretty early on in my career, just be again,
12:50
just by nature of the fact that I was exposed to a more male
12:52
dominant industry and environment working for us based
12:55
companies and I hope my us colleagues don't take offense to
12:58
this because I mean I think there's so much good to be said
13:00
about this but in the U.s., you know, a lot of organizations
13:06
less. So now I'd say than in the past
13:08
but still to a certain degree it's a very much, you know, you
13:12
live to work and that ingrained a work ethic in me that maybe I
13:17
wouldn't have adopted so early on in my career.
13:20
And I would say when I worked for the first organization and
13:23
my second one before kids like my work, ethic was through the
13:27
roof because I felt like it needed to be.
13:29
And that was a real. Again, a really great lesson for
13:32
me to learn and I Like I've carried elements of that into
13:34
other aspects of my life. But yeah it really they have I
13:38
don't know a third of the number of statutory holidays that we do
13:40
it was always a running joke when I lived in Seattle and
13:43
worked there I was like what do you mean we don't have a long
13:45
weekend every month and it was it's a you don't you really
13:48
don't and you know vacation is is a little bit not more frowned
13:54
upon but is not as common to just take it freely down there.
13:58
So things like that it's been really interesting to be a part
14:01
of that kind of culture. Oh my gosh.
14:03
That's so that's so interesting. I did not know the stuff that
14:06
about a third of the statutory holidays, how hysterical and in
14:10
Canada? It's so funny because even in
14:11
Canada, as we know we have way less vacation or it's probably
14:15
sad holidays then Europe or Australia.
14:18
Like yeah, but we're a little bit behind.
14:21
We are behind. We're behind indications and
14:23
Centre holidays were behind in Return of Parental, leave.
14:25
I should say. But then, when you've only ever
14:27
worked for American companies were so far ahead of the curve.
14:30
So it's an interesting place to be not.
14:32
So Okay, so this bolstering career, you have this incredible
14:37
work ethic that you're developing and this reputation
14:40
that you're building over the years Hugh having children, so
14:44
you go from his round-the-clock work ethic, how does that
14:47
translate when you start to have kids?
14:49
And what does that look like? Oh God, I don't even know where
14:52
to start with that. I mean, I knew, I always knew I
14:56
wanted kids my whole life, like, it wasn't necessarily, you know,
15:01
playing mom and house. You know, all the time and I
15:04
knew I wanted to establish myself in my career first and
15:08
wait until I felt really secure their before.
15:10
I started a family, but I always knew I wanted kids.
15:13
I'm an only child. So I think for the majority of
15:15
my life, I thought I'd have one maybe two and now we have three
15:19
and I still have to kind of pinch myself every day because I
15:23
can't believe I have three children.
15:26
And the transition from 2 to 3, which I'm sure we'll get to
15:29
later was absolutely by far my most humbling and difficult.
15:33
It should to date, but when I decided I wanted to have
15:38
children, I was in a management role in my job.
15:41
So I was, I was an account manager.
15:44
I had clients that I supported and I had a Target.
15:46
I had to me, but I also oversaw a team of sales reps who also
15:50
had their own individual Target, and I had spent about two years
15:54
collectively, and sales leadership training across the
15:57
u.s., with my first organization that I worked for.
15:59
When I had the opportunity move down to Seattle, it was to help
16:01
open an office. And run and manage the sales
16:04
team down there alongside my director.
16:06
So I was really in the thick of sales leadership.
16:09
When my husband, I first got married before kids, and then,
16:12
when I decided, when we decided we wanted to start a family, I
16:16
realized that being able to remain in a leadership job,
16:21
while also having children and going on maternity leave and
16:24
taking breaks from work. Not only did it, not really feel
16:27
fair to my team but it felt like I'd be stretching myself pretty
16:30
thin. And so I part of Decision to
16:33
leave the recruitment organization.
16:34
I worked for where I was in a leadership sales management, job
16:37
to the research company, as an individual contributor.
16:40
What we call an IC in our industry meaning where I'm just
16:43
responsible for my destiny in my destiny alone.
16:45
Write my own sales Target, I don't have direct reports, it
16:48
was a really thoughtful decision because I knew that I wasn't
16:52
going to be able to manage both a team at work and then manage a
16:55
household in the home. And so I made that pivot, which
16:58
at the time felt like a regression for me because I had
17:01
spent the better part of the last two years.
17:03
Is training to become a sales leader.
17:04
I had thought about moving across you know all over the
17:07
country to open up different offices.
17:08
Like that really was a priority for me, but then I realized not
17:13
only did I you know, not think that it was the right time for
17:17
me to be trying to grow my career at that pace and start a
17:20
family. I also wanted to move back home,
17:22
I wanted to be in Canada when I had children and when I moved
17:26
back home I had to make the decision to move organizations
17:29
as well. Wow, there's so much there's
17:32
just so much we Unpack their just around making a decision
17:35
that works for you. That works for your family,
17:37
having that foresight. Like, that's incredible.
17:39
That you were thinking about that versus letting it get to
17:42
the point where you, you know, shit was just hitting the fan
17:46
because you're like, whoa, I bit off way more than I could chew
17:49
but I also want to now throw back some credit to you and say
17:52
that. You're so intentional with your
17:54
career development and I have a feeling that while I might have
17:57
felt like a step back from a leadership perspective.
17:59
You've continued and correct me if I'm wrong.
18:02
You've continued to To grow your financial career and yeah
18:05
progress in that way and in other ways as well for sure.
18:09
And and I go all go back to your original question about.
18:12
You know, for those who don't know, what kind of out sales,
18:14
one thing I will say is 90% of the time you will make more as
18:18
an individual contributor than you will in a management job.
18:21
Because in that even job is back to what I was saying.
18:23
Earlier more operational, like if you're in a leadership role
18:26
where you don't have a number to hit, then you are essentially a
18:30
cost center for your organization.
18:33
Great valuable to your organization because you're
18:34
overseeing a sales team but you're not driving towards a
18:38
number and exceeding that number and getting into things that we
18:41
call in our industry accelerators, right.
18:44
So you can actually earn a lot more in an individual
18:46
contributor role and I was also aware of that when I made the
18:49
pivot thinking. Okay, how can I maximize my
18:51
earnings before I have my first baby and go on maternity leave
18:55
put some money in the bank, my husband's in finance as, you
18:58
know, on and so he keeps a pretty tight first ring, pretty
19:02
tight. So, I was thinking about all of
19:04
that, but yeah, to your point financially, it can actually be
19:09
a step up from from leadership just depending on the
19:12
organization and how compensation packages are
19:13
structured. Hmm.
19:15
I mean, talk about creativity in the career, I think that's just
19:17
something that I keep coming back to when I work with clients
19:20
or just people that I've been chatting with on this platform
19:23
as well. Is how interesting how much of a
19:25
jungle gym it is. I think it's shower Sunburst
19:27
Hamburg. That says that Sheryl Sandberg
19:30
who said, yeah, so I can trust her That, you know, we don't
19:34
have to just think of and I think people are getting this
19:37
notion, but we don't have to think of the career as a ladder
19:39
anymore. Like you're the perfect example
19:41
of a jungle gym but you've yet to digress in your career,
19:45
regrets in your career, you have been on the growth trajectory
19:49
just in different ways and personally to sure.
19:52
Yeah. And that's a great way to look
19:54
at it on a big show fan, big fan.
19:56
And yes, he does talk about that a lot.
19:57
And I mean you look at her career and it's it's impressive
20:01
to see the least. So But I will say, one of the
20:05
things I learned is that like it's a lot more common for women
20:08
to be in the jungle gym than it is for men, especially if the
20:11
women the woman in the partnership is the one to take
20:14
the parental leave, right? There's been no part of my
20:17
husband's career that's been a jungle gym.
20:19
So that's interesting, too. That's so interesting.
20:22
And one time, you told me a story about a colleague sharing
20:25
with you that notion of surrendering to quote, unquote
20:29
satisfactory or good. Can you tell me why?
20:33
That story. And just what that?
20:34
What that meant for you. Yeah, she's actually a colleague
20:37
of my husband's. I've just always looked up to
20:39
her and she's done so well in her career.
20:42
She also has three children and we were in Maui.
20:46
At the same time, a few years back, it was before I had my
20:49
third after I had my first two and I just had like, how are you
20:52
doing at all? She said, I'm not, I mean, yeah,
20:55
sure, day in and day out. I'm I'm doing my job.
20:59
I'm I'm doing the things that I do as Uh, mom the pickups, the
21:03
drop off the activities. Like I'm doing as much as I can,
21:06
but I can never die. I've just had to surrender the
21:10
fact that I'm never going to do both exceptionally well
21:12
simultaneously. Like, what do you mean by that?
21:14
She said, when I'm doing really well at work, I'm typically
21:18
dropping the ball in some aspect of motherhood.
21:20
And when I am focusing on my kids, I am typically absent in
21:24
some respect at work and the sooner you can get good with
21:28
that the better off you'll be, and it was like such an
21:32
eye-opening For me and truthfully something.
21:34
I'm still battling. You know, I'm still straddling
21:37
those two Notions in my head every day, but that's been
21:40
probably like my greatest life lesson to date.
21:43
Well, and how does that show up for for you?
21:46
Like do you feel are you okay with that?
21:49
I mean, I think I'd be lying if I said I was I think for for
21:54
type A personalities and people that run on what I call like a
22:00
high-functioning anxious person. I know it's hard to accept that
22:06
you're going to perform, you know, Less satisfactorily in one
22:13
aspect of your life and maybe that's just also to Me.
22:16
Maybe it's not actually coming through to my colleagues or my
22:19
kids, but that's the mindset that I carry right every day.
22:22
It's like, when I'm on maternity leave, there is a day that goes
22:25
by. They don't think about what I'm
22:26
missing on the work front, but the moment I return to work.
22:30
There isn't a minute that goes by where I'm not thinking about
22:32
the fact that I'm not with my kids.
22:34
So, yeah, I think it's like an ongoing lesson.
22:39
I think that I'll have to continue to work on as I go
22:42
through this season in my life. I guess we, I think you.
22:46
And I have chatted about this to just about the bar, like, the,
22:49
the bar that you set for yourself, and my husband always
22:52
does this to me, when I was in really stressful situations at
22:55
work. He's like, remember where your
22:57
bar sits versus potentially, where the expectation of the bar
22:59
sits of others, and absolutely, as moms as high-functioning, you
23:05
know, you know, decently successful women in the
23:08
workplace like We have very, we've had to have very high
23:11
standards for herself. That's probably what got us to,
23:13
you know, the type of work that we do and the no reputations
23:18
that we build. So there's something about that
23:20
playing with that bar as well. And being like, okay it's like
23:23
really good good enough and like probably it's great.
23:28
Absolutely. And then also just like the
23:30
things I think about the sacrifices that I've made in my
23:33
career to prioritize my family, you know, things like passing up
23:37
promotions or An exciting job opportunities that come with too
23:40
much travel. That I'm willing to take on, you
23:44
know, things like pay increases. Like I know I've missed
23:47
opportunities to gain. I've missed opportunities to
23:51
earn more Commission because I haven't been present on deals as
23:54
much as I needed to, you know, because I was at home, for
23:57
example, with my kids. And I wasn't, I wasn't part of
23:59
the full sale cycle of that dealer.
24:00
What have you like, neither intricacies that we don't need
24:02
to get into? But the reality is, I've had to
24:06
make a lot of sacrifices in my professional life.
24:09
Life. But that's been an active choice
24:11
because at the end of the day, my kids, my husband, my family
24:14
comes before anything and everything.
24:16
And so to make those sacrifices at work or to lower the bar of
24:21
what I expect of myself at work, is something that I've actively
24:24
chosen to do. You know, in exchange for being
24:27
more present as a mom? Yeah, absolutely.
24:30
And and you just do it so you do it so.
24:33
Well you are really a true representation and example of
24:37
somebody who I believe I look up to in that regard and being in
24:41
being so present with your family and and at work and doing
24:45
so well, work and caring so much.
24:46
You know what? I think it comes down to.
24:48
Like, there might be anxiety. That comes with it as a result,
24:51
but I always look at someone like you and it's like, because
24:54
you care so much. It's not because you're overly
24:58
anxious or there so that it's like you just have such deep
25:00
caring for your clients and the work that you do and for your
25:03
family, who doesn't respect something like that.
25:06
I want to Pivot it to your story of maternity leave.
25:09
Leave this go-round so you have a six-month-old.
25:14
Let's just call that up. That's incredible.
25:17
This is number three and I want to know what were your
25:19
intentions versus reality of maternity leave.
25:22
I always loved asking friends this question to just like what
25:25
do you think it was going to be versus what is it like this time
25:27
around? And how did you kind of enter
25:29
into this maternity season? Sure here.
25:32
Also, with my first, I mean it was my first maternity leave.
25:35
I had no idea how long I was going to take.
25:37
I just wanted to kind of feel it out.
25:39
You know what what I was going to be like as a as a new mom, I
25:41
didn't know what my baby was going to be like.
25:44
And so I was on my own though for that leave in that, you
25:47
know, my husband took a couple weeks off and then return to
25:49
work. And then I was just exclusively
25:53
playing a role as Mom. I didn't have any, you know,
25:56
help with childcare. It was just me and him and it
25:59
was, it was magical. I mean, it really was like, I
26:02
look back on that from my life so far, only because it was, I
26:04
only had to, I got to focus my whole world into this little
26:07
person. When I returned to work with him
26:10
at 9 months, I made the active decision to get a nanny instead
26:14
of daycare, and there's a number of reasons I made that choice,
26:17
but mainly, it was, you know, I knew I was returning a little
26:20
bit early, I want to be really comfortable with the childcare
26:23
situation. So we got this incredible Nanny
26:25
and she fit into our life seamlessly and became a part of
26:28
our family and we have her for two years and she was there when
26:34
I have my second in a part-time capacity.
26:36
So I kind of I feel dabbled a little bit and work.
26:39
But then I also had two little ones who I also with my second
26:42
took nine months again. And and then we moved, we moved
26:47
from our apartment and bought a home in North Vancouver for more
26:50
space and had to get a new nanny which we did.
26:53
And she still aren't any today. Going on three years and is
26:56
truly like a second mom to my kids.
26:59
This time around the maternity leave has felt different.
27:04
I have my nanny in almost a full-time capacity.
27:06
So I have help with my kids and I'm still a label to find
27:11
outlets in the day for myself, whether that's to do a little
27:14
bit of work, or whether that's to do things like this, or
27:16
whether that's to prioritize, my mental health through, you know,
27:19
exercising or a little bit of self-care ritual, things like
27:21
that, but I have three kids. So it is very, very rare that
27:27
there is more than one hour in the day where one of my kids
27:29
isn't attached to me. And so finding a way to
27:34
distribute my time equally between them recognizing that
27:38
Georgia is still 36 months and needs the most of my time that
27:42
has been very, very challenging but circling back to your
27:46
question about the maternity leave.
27:48
When I had Georgia, I assumed, I would take a shorter leave that
27:52
nine months because it was my third go around.
27:54
And I was like, I've got this, I can totally do this and it might
27:59
be worth noting that the organization I work for.
28:01
Now I signed my contract with them when I was pregnant with
28:05
Georgia and and didn't know I was pregnant with Georgia and
28:07
then I found out. I was pregnant.
28:09
Pregnant and I told my sales leader, like, instantly before.
28:12
I even started the job, just saying, hey, this is this is
28:16
happening and we again, we can get more into that later if
28:19
you'd like. But my point there is that I
28:22
had, I had said, don't worry, I don't need that much time, like
28:25
I've done this a couple times before and things have happened
28:29
since and now I'll be taking nine months again with Georgia.
28:32
So it'll be nine months with all three of my kiddos that probably
28:36
the only similarity though I'd say between my They've all look
28:40
so vastly different for all of those kind of aforementioned
28:42
reasons, oh, my goodness. And what was that conversation?
28:45
Like, I think, a lot of people come to me, and they say, I'm so
28:48
nervous. Even even at three, four, five
28:50
months, I'm so nervous to tell my leader that I'm pregnant.
28:54
And you did that at, I mean, or five weeks.
28:58
Yeah, it was that conversation like, I mean, it was, it was
29:02
awkward and hilarious. And, and like, in lightning and
29:06
reassuring all at once, like I I, I just signed the contract, a
29:12
week later, I found out, I was pregnant.
29:14
I told my husband, and then the next day, I'm like, I got to
29:17
tell my boss, and he's not even Trevor said he's having a boss
29:20
yet. You've even started.
29:21
I said, I know, but I need to give him an out and traversable
29:24
know you absolutely don't but that's just who I am.
29:28
Like, I still have my current job part of me.
29:31
I still have my former job now former job.
29:33
And I so I called him up and I will give the caveat that, you
29:38
know, I knew Do it this manager from my first job out of
29:42
University and he was such a, well respected, leader in our
29:45
organization. And I had always just had the
29:49
utmost respect for him and and looked up to him.
29:51
So, the opportunity to work for him was like it was a no-brainer
29:53
for me. So we had a little bit of report
29:55
already so I just called him and told him.
29:58
I mean, he's a dad and has two kids himself and is truly the
30:01
most compassionate sales leader I've ever worked for.
30:04
And so I told him and I was and I said look like This is
30:09
complicated, you're an American, this is an American
30:11
organization. You're an American Sales leader.
30:13
I'm up in Canada, our parental leave.
30:15
Look, very different than yours. I haven't even started yet, and
30:18
I'm telling you that I'm going to need to take off in about
30:21
eight months and I'm happy to stay with my current
30:25
organization and I'll come knocking on your door in a year
30:27
and a half and ask for the job and he laughed and said, well,
30:31
I'm a not only, can I legally not allow you are required to do
30:34
that. I would the fact that you share
30:37
this with me. So candidly and Me just makes me
30:39
want you on my team even more and and his response was just it
30:44
was the best response I could have hoped for.
30:47
And it really confirms that I was joining the right
30:49
organization but it was scary for sure.
30:52
It was scary and it was also just awkward Jenna.
30:56
Yeah. What pressure did you put on
30:58
yourself around the amount of time that you wanted to take, or
31:01
you had intended to take? Because I know you said you were
31:04
now taking more time than you, thought you would so happy that
31:06
will transpire for sure. Yeah.
31:08
So So I told him and then he came up to Vancouver and we went
31:12
out for dinner and kind of talk about territory planning and
31:14
things like that before I even start any said, so quick
31:16
questions. But like you guys get more time
31:18
up here, right? What does that look like?
31:20
And I, you know, it's important here to note.
31:23
That most American companies offer three months of maternity
31:25
leave. That is the status quo, right?
31:28
Some tech companies are doing a much better job in this space.
31:31
I know Facebook and Google offers upwards of six now and
31:34
things like that, but for the most part, it's three months
31:36
across the board and so when he asked them, Some kind of we got
31:39
I said we get up to 18 months of paid parental leave.
31:43
He like nearly fell off his chair.
31:45
It was it was a very interesting moment for both of us because I
31:51
really truly don't think he was expecting that and I felt a
31:54
little bit awkward sharing it or just uncomfortable sharing with
31:56
them. But again I assured him.
31:58
Look I took a short and Matt leave by Canadian standards with
32:01
my first two kids. I will be back six months.
32:04
This time around. I just have to offer a pro tip
32:06
right now for those listening like never Commit to a return to
32:10
work day until you've had your baby.
32:11
Whether it's your first or whether it's your fifth do not
32:13
commit to a return to work eight.
32:16
I like I did because that was my mistake and again I assume
32:21
because I had done this twice already that I'd be more than
32:23
ready to go back to work in a shorter period of time and that
32:25
just absolutely did not the case this time around.
32:27
So when I realized three months in after I got out of the haze
32:33
of that, fourth trimester with Georgia, there was no way I was
32:36
going to be ready mentally emotionally or physically to go
32:38
back to work. Three months.
32:39
I had to have a difficult conversation with him to change
32:43
my return to work date, which for him felt like an extension
32:46
of a lie. But for me, it was still going
32:48
to be a shortened leave for all intensive purposes but longer
32:52
than I think I had while longer than I had originally committed
32:54
to, right? So in your mind, you're like, oh
32:57
no, I'm still in touch, obviously I'm legally entitled
33:01
to take even up. Like, even if you said, I'm
33:04
taking up to 18 months for him, it was like, oh, you're going,
33:07
did it feel like it was kind of Of like, you were asking for a
33:10
leave of absence or something like that versus totally.
33:13
Totally. And I'll be really honest, like,
33:15
when I, when I approach the topic with him, it was early in
33:18
January, I had just come out of the holidays.
33:20
And I done a lot of reflection with with Trevor and I'm just
33:25
internally myself and realize I just was not going to be ready
33:28
to return in March when Georgia was six months old, I had noted
33:32
down. I done the pros and the cons and
33:33
everything that we type A do, right?
33:35
Like made the lists and had the role played the conversation.
33:39
And I had it with him and the original reaction was okay, I
33:42
fully support this because I support you and I want you back
33:45
and I want you back as your best self, but I have to check with
33:48
our HR because we I've never handled this type of request and
33:52
that was an interesting conversation to have, right?
33:55
Because it wasn't like, I wasn't requesting something.
33:59
I was just exercising, our right as a Canadian employee but
34:02
there's a disconnect there when you're a Canadian employee
34:05
working, for an American company and absolutely to no fault of my
34:07
bosses. That's just part of, that's just
34:11
part of it. And I had to have tough
34:12
conversations with my first two weeks to.
34:14
Because again, I was working for an American employer.
34:18
What an interesting notion to be in the position of having to do
34:22
that education, when, when, you know, if you're working for a
34:25
Canadian company and you are Canadian yourself.
34:28
It's just, there's an HR and they are first.
34:32
They are legally versed in everything that goes on to do,
34:36
with leaves in your rights and everything like that.
34:38
What an interesting. Position to be in to have to be
34:41
not only exercising your right but educating on the rights of
34:45
way. Yeah I work the totally and and
34:48
it's just it's not like really a conversation you want to have.
34:51
I wanted it to be this really open and transparent.
34:54
I'm not ready to come back. I want to come back as my best
34:57
self and be ready to just kill it for you but I'm not there.
35:02
I wanted it to be. I wanted it to stop there but it
35:05
was like, okay. Now I am I going to have to
35:08
provide I'd literature and documentation around, what I'm
35:12
entitled to, and unfortunately, it didn't, it didn't come down
35:14
to that but you're right, the education piece and then the
35:19
self-advocacy is also like really important but also not
35:23
necessarily easy I'd say to to do.
35:27
Yeah. So you're one tip is around just
35:29
a baby avoiding or over over-promised.
35:32
No under promising over delivering in that regard.
35:35
Any other tips that you'd have in that situation is navigating
35:38
the The plan or the return to work.
35:42
Yeah I would just say like follow your gut and intuition I
35:46
knew over the holidays, I wasn't going to be ready.
35:48
Come on Marge I just knew and so once I had made that decision in
35:52
my mind it was all about how was I going to communicate and
35:57
articulate this to my sales leader and to my organization,
36:00
and to my clients and all of my colleagues and business
36:03
partners? I mean I had work with so many
36:05
different individuals on a day-to-day basis.
36:06
Again, all based in the u.s. so You know, you got to trust your
36:10
gut intuition and then you've got to be good with your
36:13
decision and stick by it. And like I said earlier, don't
36:16
commit to anything, don't put the cart before the horse.
36:20
If you know, I don't know that expression but, you know, make
36:24
sure that you're under promising so that you can over deliver,
36:31
that's really good. So going back to your 4th
36:34
trimester and you're navigating having a third baby having a
36:38
newborn And being in the fourth trimester being in that
36:41
postpartum space. How is your mental health, this
36:43
time around? And what did that look like for
36:45
you? Yeah.
36:47
Truthfully. This has been, I think I shared
36:50
earlier already. This was my toughest transition
36:52
to date for a whole host of reasons.
36:54
But touching on the mental health piece, like after my son
36:59
jack and my middle daughter Ella, I didn't, you know, there
37:02
was moments of overwhelm and there was moments of worry.
37:05
Sure. But I didn't feel Really overly
37:09
anxious or I didn't feel like I was experiencing mental health.
37:14
Challenges to the derby that I have this time around.
37:16
I definitely, I can acknowledge now, six months in that after we
37:20
had Georgia. I went through and I'm still
37:22
going through feelings of postpartum anxiety every day.
37:26
I was in the beginning stage and that fourth trimester just
37:29
exhausted. And I was really overwhelmed,
37:32
and I think suffering from like, burnout as a result, was it,
37:36
like, mental and emotional load of motherhood and motherhood to
37:39
Little ones and I think looking back on it like the fourth
37:44
trimester was so hazy because I I survived it, but I was doing
37:49
just that I was just surviving. Like I don't think there was any
37:52
part of me in those first 12 weeks, that was thriving and I
37:55
knew that I wanted to be thriving as a Mom first and
38:00
foremost. So, I could show up for my kids
38:02
in the way that I wanted to show up for them every day.
38:04
But also as a professional, which is partially, what got me
38:06
to the decision to extend my Leave it.
38:12
There was other things that kind of took place after Georgia,
38:14
like my middle child, and it seems that I just didn't
38:17
anticipate, you know, my middle child who had been our baby up
38:19
until we had Georgia, was really struggling with the transition
38:23
at home with her role as a big sister and I wanted to be able
38:28
to spend more time with her. But when you have a newborn like
38:31
literally attached to you, for the first few months is really
38:34
hard to allocate the one-on-one time that I wanted to.
38:36
So there was tons of guilt around that And and I still have
38:41
feelings of guilt around that every day and yeah.
38:46
And then I guess my marriage like and I know he'll appreciate
38:51
you sharing this candidly like Trevor and I really struggled to
38:54
find any semblance of time together.
38:56
Like when we had two kids, it was one-on-one.
38:58
But you hear the expression that when you have a third you move
39:01
into defense and it is exactly that it is defense.
39:03
You are there is constantly, one of your three or more children
39:08
that Need you at any given time of the day and so being able to
39:11
allocate time to your partner into each other time to, you
39:16
know, communicate with one another and and get quality time
39:19
together. It was just like that was so and
39:22
still is so tough for us. How are you finding that you're
39:25
able to come back to? What are some?
39:27
I mean even tactical strategies are things that you're working
39:30
on. That have the thing have helped
39:32
even the smallest of thing. What's been, what's been working
39:35
for you guys? Yeah, I mean again, I'll give a
39:38
kudos to our He was freed up. Allowed me to free up some time
39:41
for myself every day because another lesson I'm learning at
39:45
the season in my life that I've, I've never exercised before, and
39:48
I can say that with confidence is, if I don't put if I don't
39:52
put myself, my mental and physical health first, and show
39:55
up for myself every day, I can't show up for my kids and my
39:57
husband. And we did.
39:58
I want to. So really prioritizing my own
40:01
mental and physical health above and beyond anything else is very
40:05
very difficult for me but I realized it's necessary so
40:08
taking Time out for myself every day, whether it's, you know, 30
40:12
minutes to read or to run errands without one of my kids.
40:16
This is that, you know, just creating he's in the, in the
40:18
errand running in the mundane tasks of Life exercise, things
40:23
like that. And then my husband, and I have
40:25
been trying to get back into our date night, and we were really
40:28
good about that before our third, we had a date night,
40:30
every Thursday, and it was either, you know, we would go
40:33
out somewhere or we would get takeout, but we would still have
40:35
someone taking care of the kids. Discussed, you know, the
40:40
importance of getting back into that when when I'm in a place
40:43
where I can like, leave Georgia for longer periods longer
40:45
stretches of time which has started to happen over the last
40:47
couple of months. So yeah, prioritizing that time
40:51
together has been really key and then allocating one-on-one time
40:56
to each of my kids. Like Georgia gets the majority
40:58
of my time just by sheer fact that she relies on me for
41:02
survival, you know, she's not eating food yet, she still, I'm
41:06
still nursing. So, like, she gets, The majority
41:09
of it but making sure that I'm giving time one-on-one to Jack
41:12
and Ella every week has been also.
41:15
I think really helpful those are such good tips and and I liked
41:19
what you said, how you know, you're getting you and your
41:22
husband are talking about bringing the date nights back
41:25
and what that looks like. But I think that's a good point
41:27
about it. Sounds like a season, right?
41:29
Like, the postpartum and the early days are it's a season and
41:34
it then you kind of have to shift things around again and
41:37
then you shift things around again, as the The babes grow and
41:40
they're in different stages. Yes, totally.
41:43
And the speaking of having to shift and pivot, like the other
41:46
thing I've really learned in this season is like, the only
41:50
thing that's constant is change and holy has that been hard for
41:55
someone like me that's very routine driven and very like I I
42:01
suffer from anticipatory anxiety, right?
42:03
So the anxiety of the unknown, I like to know what's ahead and
42:08
what's coming up and I like and I'm a planner and you just can't
42:11
do that with three young kids. You it's you can do it sometimes
42:14
but you certainly can't do it all the time.
42:16
And so having to adapt and pivot on the fly has also been really
42:22
humbling but a really important life lesson for me too.
42:26
That's a really good point and just and maybe finding I wonder
42:29
if it's also which it's probably something that you're doing with
42:32
your routines and your workouts like you and I went for work out
42:34
the other day and we plant things like that to look forward
42:37
to you. What are the things that you can
42:40
control that you can maybe put the calendar to appease that
42:43
side of yourself? And then what are the?
42:45
There's the 70% of the life that's just because I'm gonna
42:49
let it go. Yeah, totally yeah.
42:54
Oh my goodness. Oh, if we could chat forever and
42:57
when we get together, the time just goes by so quickly.
43:00
But I know that you've kind of alluded to this, but you know,
43:04
if we were to kind of bring it back to like, what something
43:07
just one thing that your Trying to figure out right now that
43:10
you're working on what would that be everything?
43:13
Like truly everything. I don't feel like I have much
43:16
figured out these days but I will say a couple things that
43:21
I'm I'm really trying to focus. My efforts and attention on is
43:25
being comfortable in the Stillness and at and moving at a
43:29
slower pace and I'm used to, that's another thing I know
43:32
about myself, like I'm constantly wanting to be doing
43:36
something like working to achieve a goal.
43:39
I'm really not good at sitting still and that's been
43:42
challenging or my mental health, because I put these expectations
43:45
on myself, that just aren't realistic at this point in my
43:47
life. And so getting comfortable with
43:50
slowing down has also allowed me to enjoy more of the little
43:54
moments with my kids. Which gosh, like you were going
43:58
to look back on those when we're older and realize, like how much
44:01
we missed out on by not just like standing in the Stillness
44:05
of those little moments every day.
44:09
And then professionally I would say, you know, it's the, it's
44:15
the need to be showing up as my best self in my professional
44:20
life, as well as my personal life recognizing that that's
44:23
just not feasible at this point in my life and that one day when
44:27
my kids are older and they don't need me to wipe their grubby
44:30
faces and get them dressed every morning and prepare their meals
44:34
and do all the things. I will be able to go back to
44:38
work. As like the full force that at
44:40
the full force that I want to, you know, so those would
44:45
probably be my two main things that I'm still trying to work on
44:48
every day. I haven't figured it out, that's
44:51
for sure, but I'm trying. The intention is there, which is
44:55
half the battle. Thank you so much again for
44:58
joining me today. So appreciate you and I feel
45:00
like there's gonna be a lot of people who really resonate with
45:03
your just openness and vulnerability.
45:05
So thank you again for coming. Thank you for having me.
45:08
Me, thank you for listening. You can access all resources
45:12
mentioned in this episode via my website andreea bar.com /
45:15
podcast and let's chat on Instagram.
45:18
I'm at andreea bar coaching and I reply that every DM.
45:21
I get if you loved this episode, don't forget to quickly hit that
45:24
button on your podcast app to give me a five star rating and
45:27
drop in and review. It would truly mean the world
45:31
and if you're like me and love to share things that you love,
45:34
send this episode to a friend who you think would appreciate
45:37
this topic. Thanks again for listening and
45:39
I'll chat with you next week. Thanks again for listening and
45:39
I'll chat with you next week.