Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / Winnie Sun | Wealth Advisor Shares How She Leverages Social Media, Publicity, and Collaboration for Exponential Growth

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Winnie Sun | Wealth Advisor Shares How She Leverages Social Media, Publicity, and Collaboration for Exponential Growth · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

0:02
Unknown: Hi everyone, and welcome to the wealthy woman
0:04
lawyer podcast. I am super, super excited that I have Winnie
0:08
son here today with me. I've been looking forward to speaking
0:11
with her when he is one of the most followed financial advisors
0:17
on social media with something like 25 billion followers or
0:20
something. So she's gonna tell us the exact number. And also,
0:26
if you are on LinkedIn at all, you have not seen Whitney she's
0:30
on there on a live show on LinkedIn of almost daily. I'm
0:35
not sure if it is daily. I'm sure he will tell us that his
0:37
daily but I've see I see a daily when I'm on there, and I'm super
0:41
excited to have her here. She is also a co founder of Sun group,
0:47
make sure you get this in the right order subgroup wealth
0:49
partners. She's the co founder and managing director. She is a
0:53
financial advisor with more than 17 years experience is also on
0:58
the CNBC financial advisory council. She's the podcast host
1:03
of LinkedIn networks when he sons yes factor if you're not
1:07
following that, do start following that because it is a
1:11
great podcast. And she has been cited interviewer quoted in more
1:18
places than I can name CNBC, Fox News, Forbes, Wall Street
1:22
Journal, New York Times, and many, many, many more. So we're
1:26
excited to have her here because it got lots of questions today.
1:29
So welcome, Whitney. And that was a little long winded intro,
1:32
but welcome.
1:33
And I am so honored and excited to be here with you, Davina,
1:36
thank you so much for having me.
1:38
Good, good, good. So let's dive in with you telling us a little
1:42
bit about some group Well, partners. So we have an idea of
1:46
what your business is.
1:47
Sure. Thank you. So we are a financial services wealth
1:52
management firm. Our headquarters is based here in
1:55
Southern California, we do serve clients nationwide. And
1:59
actually, globally, we have clients a lot offshore as well.
2:03
And I've been a financial advisor now for goodness, I
2:06
think about 22 years, and so is a firm that was started by two
2:12
financial advisors who are best friends. So Brandon is my
2:15
longtime business partner, we've been business partners for 22
2:18
years, I think it is. And we're like brother and sister. And we
2:23
have a very diverse community of professionals on our team, just
2:28
the nicest of human beings. And so, I don't know, I think it's
2:32
such a gift. But we are able to help people from all walks of
2:36
life from like, people who just started investing to companies
2:40
to who have gone through that process of needing to go public,
2:44
and executives at major Fortune 500 companies, like we basically
2:49
help them manage their money so that they can do what they do
2:52
best in their own respective lives.
2:55
Wonderful. So I am always curious, when somebody winds up
2:59
in a profession, like financial advisor or lawyer, it's not
3:04
something that you know, most of us think when we're little kids,
3:08
I'm gonna grow up to be a financial advisor. So tell us
3:10
how your journey into this profession came about?
3:17
What did it mean, this wasn't a good question. And you know, I
3:20
love that you kind of, like framed it that way, you know,
3:22
not all of us thought we were going to be attorneys on I
3:25
thought we were going to be financial advisors. And
3:27
certainly being a financial adviser was nowhere on my radar
3:30
at all, and actually sort of fell into place somewhat
3:33
accidentally, just like many of you, you know, really worked
3:37
hard during school was about get excited about getting into good
3:41
colleges. And you know, it's interesting, because my parents
3:45
who are immigrants from Taiwan, you know, they didn't have a lot
3:48
of money coming here, but they worked really hard. They saved
3:50
as much as they could. And they wanted to send my sister and I
3:53
to college. Well, about three months before I was actually
3:57
about to leave for college. My mom pulls me aside and she's one
4:01
of those parents where like, she's like the typical, like,
4:04
tiger mom, she's like, really aggressive. And she's like, you
4:06
know, if you were to go to battle, you would go with mom
4:09
because she could push through like waves of scary people. But
4:12
she was actually pulled me aside and they could see that, like,
4:15
her eyes were like glow shiny. And I call the shiny eyeball
4:18
because my mom doesn't cry. And she said, You know, I know you
4:22
worked really hard. I know you got into good schools. But
4:25
remember that project that Dad and I invested in that was
4:29
supposed to help pay for your college and your sister's
4:32
college? Well, we're going bankrupt, because the partners,
4:37
then we got pulled. So that was sort of my first lesson. So I
4:40
ended up you know, definitely a ski changing my decision of
4:44
where I was going to go to school and of going to school
4:47
here and stay at UCLA, which is fortunately really great school.
4:51
But during that time, it wasn't just like thinking about how to
4:55
pay for college because I do didn't know I had financial aid
4:58
or student loans. But I was actually more concerned about
5:01
helping my parents keep the house. And what that meant
5:04
because my dad felt completely empty because he felt like he
5:08
felt his family. So it was really, sort of that's really
5:12
how everything started. And then so when I was at school, I
5:16
started my own business while in college, actually, and the
5:19
television production space. And then at an during hiatus is
5:24
where you know, you didn't have much filming there in time I
5:27
started taking the financial planning program at UCLA at
5:30
night, hoping to give that information will help my parents
5:34
make better financial decisions. So it was purely accidental. And
5:37
it's almost like because of a bad financial experience that
5:41
led me to this space. i This was definitely not on my radar at
5:45
all. I was a poli sci major. I'm guessing some of you who are
5:48
watching probably may have been a poli sci major as well. So
5:52
that was sort of the direction I was going, I went, I joined a
5:54
tip television show to do legal research because I was thinking,
5:58
you know, typical Asian family, you only get three choices in
6:01
life. You're either a doctor or engineer, an attorney. And I
6:04
didn't want to be a doctor definitely didn't have what it
6:07
took to be an engineer. So like, Okay, well default, I guess I'll
6:10
be an attorney. And I like to read but they didn't. Yeah,
6:14
definitely wasn't smart enough to go into your route.
6:18
That is such a compelling story. And something that I think those
6:24
kinds of stories shape a lot of people's lives, you know, what
6:28
their parents what happens in their parents lives, often
6:31
shapes what we do in our life. And we may not know it at the
6:36
time, but it is planting seeds. And it's often something that,
6:40
you know, you just the least the thing that you would not expect,
6:43
right. But to be able to help family members is is a really
6:48
compelling reason to do this. So tell me kind of how what what
6:52
was your first job? As a financial advisor? Like did you
6:57
immediately decide that you wanted that you were going to
7:00
start your own business in that? Or was it something where you
7:04
had a another kind of job and mentors are and it wasn't, you
7:08
know, and then something led you starting your own business?
7:11
Sure. So you know, at UCLA, you know, I was lucky I, as soon as
7:15
I started school, I took on so many jobs because I wanted to
7:17
help, you know, financially, my family. And one of the jobs I
7:21
got was a legal research job at a television show called Jones
7:25
and jury starring Star Jones. And it was a brand new show, I
7:29
thought I was doing legal research. But as soon as they
7:31
got in the first day, they said we need help on the audience. So
7:34
I ended up going to the audience. And I wasn't even like
7:37
a true, you know, hire at that point. I was an intern. And so
7:41
my job assumed got promoted to a position called page. A page is
7:46
basically an usher that walks people from the exit to the
7:51
entrance to sit in the audience. We collect gum, and then we walk
7:54
people to the restroom. And then we would you know, repeat that.
7:57
And so I did that for some time. And then someone said, while
8:00
UCLA you're a really good page, or a really good audience page
8:03
and say thank you. And then so So long story short, is
8:07
eventually one of the producers said why don't you create your
8:10
own audience production company. And if you do, I'll send you my
8:14
shows, I'll send you my daughter shows. And you know, and that at
8:18
that time, I was about 1920 years old. And I started a
8:21
television audience production company, and the apartment of my
8:24
college apartment, and had a fax machine. That's how long ago it
8:28
was. And then we grew it. I was still in school full time. And
8:33
we grew this business to the second largest in the United
8:36
States. I was moving 1000s of people to different television
8:39
shows, including Americans Funniest Home Videos and shows
8:42
shooting in jeopardy and wheel of fortune, and MTV pilots and
8:47
Regis and Kathie Lee, when they filmed in Los Angeles, all these
8:50
different shows. And that's how I started. And then my parents,
8:54
I could sense that my mom was always sort of disappointed that
8:57
I had gone and get gotten a good education as working in
9:00
television. I don't know why she thought that but so I felt like
9:04
I needed to like learn financial planning, you know, to help them
9:07
anyway. And during that process, one of my professors in the
9:11
Financial Planning Program tapped me and said, you know,
9:14
Smith, Barney is doing a hiring process and you need to go,
9:19
you're ready. They're doing a recruiting process program. So I
9:22
went through the recruiting program, and let me tell you who
9:26
everybody look like Barbie and Ken, everyone was so beautiful,
9:29
like a size zero. And men were like six feet four. And I
9:33
remember telling my boyfriend who's now my husband, I said,
9:36
Oh, this is this. I remember telling him after I said this,
9:39
you know, I was sold in the wrong space. You know, he had
9:43
these beautiful Suzy look gorgeous. And here I was like
9:47
really very, very awkward sitting in the corner. And you
9:50
know, we had submitted our resumes and whatnot. And when
9:54
they were done, and there were saying like, you know, you'll be
9:56
lucky if you get hired here, and basically this and that and And
10:00
you know, sometimes we throw spaghetti on the wall and hope
10:02
like someone sticks. But most of you will fail in this industry.
10:05
But if you really want to blow, so I remember thinking, Okay,
10:07
well, this wasn't work for me. But luckily, I've got a TV
10:11
production company, mom, we'll just have to deal with this,
10:13
right? So I'm walking out leaving, and they say, Mr.
10:17
Mason, can we can can you stay with us for a minute? And I
10:20
remember thinking, like, literally, I was like, oh, no, I
10:23
must have parked in the wrong spot like this is really bad. So
10:27
they took me to this conference room. And it was like, literally
10:30
this huge, beautiful mahogany conference room. They sat there,
10:35
I felt like hours, but it was probably just like 10 minutes.
10:37
And then like, literally six or seven men and beautiful suits
10:41
with cufflinks walked in. And basically they said, you know,
10:45
we're not letting you leave this room until you sign with us. And
10:48
that's what happened. And I was thinking myself, why would you
10:51
like, why would you want to hire me? And they say that they kept
10:54
asking me about my TV, business and how I found people. And I
10:58
think they thought that I was working with celebrities, which
11:00
I told them I wasn't. But I think they thought that my
11:03
network was, you know, the who's who of the entertainment space,
11:07
which it wasn't I was just moving people to the audience,
11:09
but they didn't know that. And that's how it
11:11
happened. Wow. So So how long did you stay there? Did you did
11:17
you go from there to opening your own business? Or in the in
11:22
the wealth space? Or did you go someplace else first?
11:26
No, I was at Smith Barney the whole time was my first firm.
11:29
And then Smith Barney, which was part of Citigroup at the time,
11:32
then eventually got bought out by Morgan Stanley. And at that
11:36
time, Morgan Stanley, it was a very different culture. And my
11:39
manager, who was my mentor, and really helped me take it to a
11:44
next level, he actually left because he couldn't handle
11:47
working under Morgan Stanley. And at that point, I knew it was
11:50
time to look at different options. And fortunately, had
11:53
done a really good job. I Smith, Barney. So like I at that point,
11:56
I was already in the corner office, I was like the youngest
11:58
person or an office. And we didn't definitely didn't have an
12:01
issue of who wanted us. It's just where we wanted. And I had
12:06
already actually decided to go to UBS, a huge offer, one of the
12:10
largest all cash offers that they had offered at the time.
12:13
And then, but then my manager, my previous manager, he said,
12:18
You know, when he we're looking at LPL, and if you're interested
12:22
in going there, I might actually go with you. And I thought the
12:25
prospect of going with someone who really helped elevate my
12:28
career was meaningful to me. And you know, this was somebody who
12:34
supported me when I might, when I got pregnant for the first
12:37
time I had my first child, like made sure that it was a good
12:40
environment for me to grow my business. This was someone who
12:43
like, you know, who didn't look at me as just being female,
12:47
Asian, but actually looked at me fairly compared to other male
12:51
financial advisors. And so I felt like he was someone I could
12:54
try. So, so he said, he's looking, so I took it very
12:57
seriously. So I went. And we met with LPL and they, I said, I
13:02
really think I can mark it because marketing is my passion.
13:06
And he said that the firm said, yeah, we'll support that. So we
13:09
went, and my manager, he was with us for probably about six
13:13
months. He's like, okay, you know, I think I'm just gonna
13:14
retire. So, so we're still really, really close to this,
13:19
Dave, I'm like, John, I came here for you, and then you
13:22
leave. But he's like, you'll be fine. And so you know. So the
13:26
rest is history. So we've been now through LPL, they're our
13:29
back office, right? We do own our own firm, we do run
13:33
everything ourselves, or we handle everything or our clients
13:36
and whatnot. But they they've been just sort of our back
13:39
office partner, which has been, you know, it's been, I don't
13:42
know, now over a decade. So we are Smith, Barney slash Morgan
13:45
Stanley for over a decade. And then from there on, we left an
13:49
Instagram firm,
13:51
wonderful, wonderful. That's such a that is such a
13:54
fascinating journey and story, I want to talk about something
13:57
that you have, and this may be because of your background in
14:04
television and sort of going going in that direction. And
14:08
you're sort of passionate love for marketing. But I think
14:12
something that you've done really, really well that a lot
14:15
of women law firm owners are going to be intrigued about and
14:18
curious about is how you have built your network and become so
14:26
visible and such a sought after resource for these publications
14:33
of the shows. When they're looking for some an expert on a
14:36
topic to talk about wealth and money. What what kinds of things
14:40
do you think that lay the foundation for that for you? And
14:44
may there's something that has evolved into what it has evolved
14:48
into today for you?
14:50
Sure. You know, it's so interesting, I'll share this
14:53
with you because when people will say like wow, you know, you
14:56
know, I saw you on a today show or so I on CNBC they're like,
14:59
you know, I want that guy who's your publicist. And it's
15:02
interesting because I'm actually most people don't really know
15:05
this, but I'm actually an extreme introvert. I'm so much
15:09
of an introvert that like, for the first 12 years of my life in
15:12
elementary school to middle school, I pretty much didn't
15:15
speak. And so my parents would have these meetings with
15:17
teachers. And I think she's a good student, but she just
15:19
doesn't talk. And I was always afraid that people saw me that
15:23
they, if they heard me that actually see me. And that was
15:25
like, so funny. And I remember when LinkedIn, and Facebook and
15:30
you know, I think even before that social media came out, my
15:33
husband says, you know, you should do this social media
15:35
thing, because it's actually, you know, could be good for
15:37
business. But the financial industry didn't embrace social
15:40
media. And so I said, No, no, no, I can't do that. I have
15:43
nothing to share, what am I going to talk about? But then
15:45
eventually, Smith, Barney allowed us to do LinkedIn, I was
15:48
like, being the good student, now good employee, if they said
15:51
you should do LinkedIn, I should do LinkedIn. So I started doing
15:53
LinkedIn. And as quickly saying, like, got Malte a, you know, a
15:59
eight figure client off LinkedIn really, really, relatively
16:02
quickly. And that's what I've opened my eyes about the
16:06
potential of marketing and whatnot. And the thing is, you
16:09
know, I always said, if, if I could just bottle my clients up
16:13
what they said about us, right, it was what that said about me
16:17
as a financial advisor. My clients would love me so much
16:20
like, I remember, when I was expecting my first child, my
16:23
office was like, completely covered with baby gifts, like
16:25
all the time, and my manager said, when you know, this kind
16:28
of stuff, you should have this at home, you shouldn't have this
16:30
substantive work. I'm John, I didn't order this stuff. This is
16:34
for my clients. And he's like, what your clients are like, I
16:37
didn't even tell them. I think they just found out from my
16:39
assistant that I'm, like, pregnant. And you know, that's
16:43
how it kind of, and then that's when I realized, like, wow,
16:46
we're doing something really special. And our clients really
16:49
feel different when when they're with me, if I could just bottle
16:54
that up, I wouldn't have to do summers as much I wouldn't have
16:57
to, well, this is already post I when I built my business cold
17:00
calling. So I didn't cold call this much. But I didn't do the
17:02
work so hard for prospecting. So then I recognized that, well,
17:06
you know, at the time, Bernie Madoff was on the news and the
17:09
Lehman Brothers issues were in the news, and Merrill Lynch, all
17:12
these bad things were happening. And I said, If I don't tell my
17:15
story, someone else is going to tell my story. So that's when I
17:19
really started leveraging social media. And when I left, Morgan
17:24
Stanley, I remember the manager who had taken over the Morgan
17:27
Stanley Niners who said, you know, when he, I hope your
17:30
husband knows what you're doing today, because you had just
17:33
committed career suicide, you will, you will die. This is over
17:37
for your career. And I remember being so scared going down that
17:40
elevator that day, leaving Morgan Stanley, and wondering
17:43
how I was going to make this work. And I remember telling
17:46
myself, but you know what, my clients love me. And I'm going
17:49
to find a way to get this out. So when I was obviously meeting
17:53
with the different firms, fortunately, I had already
17:55
gotten commitment from LPL do, they actually hired me a
17:59
publicist from day one, and that really sort of opened my eyes
18:02
about what a publicist could do, because I had never worked with
18:04
one before. And, and I recognize that you know, what we, as
18:09
business owners have a responsibility not only to do
18:13
great work for our clients, that's the number one thing. But
18:16
the second thing that we have a responsibility to them for, is
18:20
to get the word out about our business. Because if we don't
18:23
continue to build our practices, then we're not going to be any
18:27
good for our existing clients. And we're not going to be any
18:30
good for our team. And if we're not in practice, because we fail
18:35
to continue to build our businesses. That's why us so our
18:38
responsibility as business owners, if we really care about
18:42
our clients, really proud of our teams, we spent a good amount of
18:45
time building our brand, and, and making sure that even when
18:50
we're with our kids, or we're with a client, that we still
18:53
have entities out there that are attracting and Brill and
18:57
building brands will bring us more business. So that's sort of
19:01
like was my aha moment. So I went all in eventually, with
19:05
social media and and that, and I will tell you, it took me three,
19:11
three or four experiences before finding my perfect publicists.
19:15
And as I shared with you, I have had the same business partner
19:18
for 22 years, I've been married 24 years, you know, obviously
19:23
different people. But I am the type of person who retains
19:26
relationships for a very long time. So to go through these
19:29
different publicists means that it was just not a good fit. I
19:33
finally found someone who is who I'm with now, who will be my
19:36
publicist for life. But you need to find someone who believes in
19:40
you because there's going to be days that you don't believe in
19:42
yourself. And so they're going to challenge you, they're going
19:45
to make you better, and they're going to open doors for you that
19:48
maybe you couldn't open for yourself, and that's who you
19:52
want on your team because I think building your brand
19:55
independently is doable, but very, very difficult. And I
19:58
think no matter how How Alfa or how successful you are, when you
20:02
find that person in your corner, it will completely change you.
20:06
And I think Davina, you've actually done such a beautiful
20:09
job with this already.
20:10
Thank you. Thank you so much for that. I, I think there's there's
20:15
so much in what you said that is very powerful. And I want to
20:18
unpack that a little bit. And one of the things is you said
20:22
that first of all, you said you were very introverted. And I
20:26
want to talk about how you sort of overcame that. Because I know
20:30
that is a real stumbling block for a lot of professional women,
20:34
they just, they want to be behind the scenes doing the work
20:36
for their clients, they don't want to be in front of a camera.
20:40
And I know for me, you know, I'm in it. As anybody listens to
20:44
this. Now I'm in my mid 50s. So it's it's not fun being in front
20:47
of the camera, when you're in your mid 50s. And you're looking
20:50
at all the young people out there doing things, and it can
20:53
be a little uncomfortable. And fortunately, I'm curious enough
20:56
about other people that it's a driving factor for me to have
21:00
conversations with other people. But when you are introverted, it
21:04
can be a stumbling block for people. And then the other thing
21:07
I want to talk about, so I don't forget, I'm gonna put it out
21:10
there for you, is you went through three or four people.
21:14
And I think one of the things that often happens with women
21:19
business owners, and maybe with men too, I don't know, but but I
21:22
know certainly with women business owners that I work
21:24
with, is that sometimes we we take a failure upon ourselves
21:30
when something doesn't work out. And then we say, Well, that
21:33
didn't work out. And maybe we do one or two, you know, people and
21:37
then it doesn't work out and we go, Well, that doesn't work. And
21:39
we cross it off the list. And oftentimes we see it, whether
21:43
we're hiring, we hire somebody and they quit or they ghost or
21:47
they you know, or they work for a while and then suddenly they
21:50
get strange and guess let them go and they don't fit anymore.
21:54
And then we go, you know, I hired one time and that was
21:57
really scary for me, because it didn't work out. So I must be
22:00
bad at it. You know, what kinds of Did you ever have those
22:06
moments when you were on? You know, Person number two, Person
22:09
number three? Or you started going? Was it me?
22:14
Absolutely. So I'm going to ask answer the publicist question
22:18
first. Cuz I think that's the question I get asked so much. I
22:20
don't a lot of interest in that. So let me tell you this. So, you
22:24
know, you're right. We feel failure. If it doesn't work out,
22:26
we think it's us. And so many times, I felt like it was
22:29
especially being an introvert, you, you overanalyze and you,
22:32
you sort of, you know, discount yourself over and over again.
22:36
And I remember my, one of my earlier published, in fact, I
22:40
remember asking him, I said, Do you think I should do more
22:43
social media? Because my husband thinks I should do more social
22:45
media? He said, No, no, no. And he was similar age to me. So it
22:49
wasn't like he was, like, much older. And he says, no, no, I
22:52
just want you to continue to do print media, traditional media,
22:55
I think it's good for you, you know, don't spend too much money
22:57
on social media, I don't think that's really relevant for you.
23:00
And actually, that wasn't why I left that firm. Because then his
23:05
right hand, this was I was pregnant with I think my second
23:09
I had just given birth to my second child. And you know, when
23:12
you have your baby, at the first few weeks, you can't even see
23:15
things straight, right? You don't even get a chance to
23:17
shower sometimes. So one of the media outlets, a really big
23:20
outlet has sent an email to myself, cc my, my publicist
23:25
right hand at the time, and said, Hey, I want to see if I
23:30
can get Winnie back on this as a state as a radio show, by the
23:33
way, and, you know, so you know, during this, this isn't like TV,
23:37
so it's quite easier. And he says, I want to see if she can
23:40
do an interview like this after we'll have I know, it's last
23:42
minute, but whatever. So I finally saw the email. This was
23:47
in plenty of time, by the way. And I was like, Oh, this is
23:49
great. I could do it. But then my publishers had already
23:52
replied all and said, Don't worry, when you can't do this, I
23:55
got someone else for you. And I was like, you know, I just gave
24:00
birth, you have children, you're a mom, too. And you could have
24:03
texted me or call me because you know, I would have wanted to do
24:06
this. So at that point, I recognized that I needed to find
24:09
somebody else because I was just another number two, her and that
24:13
firm, you know, but I think with with this, I will say this is
24:18
like there's always going to be a lot of people that discount
24:20
you and you're gonna go through this naturally as well. The
24:23
first time I was on CNBC, I was actually sort of a train wreck.
24:28
I remember my publicist at the time has said so, you know, I
24:31
reached out to the producer and asked how you did and they said,
24:34
You look the part. You know your stuff, but there's something
24:37
wrong with the way that you speak. They think there's
24:39
something wrong with your tongue. So I was like, okay, my
24:42
20 Some years in life for 30 years. I've never been told
24:46
there was something wrong with the way I spoke in this not only
24:50
to after beat discovery, I went to like speech therapist for a
24:54
year. Media coaches for a year spent so much money trying to
24:58
fix myself. Own Need to learn when I started doing live
25:01
streaming myself independently? That was because growing up, I
25:06
learned to speak Chinese before I spoke English. And so on
25:10
television, the Ching, the knees would come out, right. And so
25:14
after Facebook Live came out, I started teaching myself I was
25:18
like practicing doing live streaming every day. And that's
25:21
actually how I fixed myself. So now people are like, wow, she's
25:24
a natural. She's so good on TV. I'm like, seven or eight years
25:27
in the making, but we've got
25:29
lots of practice lots of practice. Yeah, I know, I
25:35
definitely you notice all of the all those quirky things that you
25:39
do, and you don't really realize that you do a camera on you. And
25:43
you look at the video and the sound of your voice. Everybody
25:46
hates the sound of their voice, everybody, when you listen to
25:49
recording your voice. You know, they're like, oh, I don't sound
25:52
like that. And it's so it can be such you know, cognitive
25:56
dissonance.
25:56
You sound really grateful. But you gotta say, Oh,
25:59
thank you. Well see. Now my view of that is different. When I
26:02
listen to myself, I'm like, oh. But you know, I think I think
26:07
that's the part that for me, I just, I always think about the
26:15
content, I'm sharing the guests that I have on. And I'm focused,
26:20
I try to focus on the message. And just hope that people can,
26:26
you know, overcome any sort of weird quirks or if I talk my
26:29
hands too much, or whatever it is that I do. And they can they
26:32
can move past that and focus on the content and the guests. And
26:36
when you focus on the content for me that that is what I've
26:42
had to learn to do to overcome the anxiety that comes with, you
26:45
know, because it's not about me, right? It's about what we're
26:48
talking about, and that we're helping people that we're
26:50
sharing. You are you're you know, you're very attractive
26:55
lady. And you mentioned a couple of times that lay it off. Right.
27:00
So you mentioned right, you mentioned a couple of times
27:02
about first of all, I think I can't believe somebody actually
27:06
told you that something was the death of your career because you
27:09
were leaving them and, and you mentioned being uncomfortable
27:13
because you're in this room of sort of cannon Barbies, and not
27:16
feeling like you fit in because you're Asian, because you're a
27:19
woman because you you know you're introverted. All of those
27:22
things are one of those things. How have you, how have you
27:27
learned to use that to your advantage?
27:31
Absolutely. So Dave, I'm so glad you mentioned that. I mean, I
27:35
remember like even when I first got hired at Smith, Barney, one
27:38
of the advisors came into the office, welcome into the office.
27:41
And he goes, Well, the manager got a great deal hiring you,
27:44
because you're a double minority extra bonus there. And I
27:47
remember not knowing what that meant at 20 something years old.
27:50
And so you know, for the longest time, my clients, hell is
27:53
completely diverse, like some I've had advisors say, Oh, do
27:56
you mostly handle the Asian community? I'm like, Wow,
27:59
interesting question. My Asian clientele makes up probably 10
28:03
to 15%. I'm a completely diverse clientele, which I'm very proud
28:07
of my consistency. All my clients are really, really great
28:11
human beings and really great people, and really hard working.
28:14
That's I think the commonality there. But I think, you know, we
28:18
all have our insecurities. my publicist who I am with right
28:23
now, as well, as I have, you know, some other business
28:26
mentors I've had all these years who have really helped shape me,
28:29
I think, and when I was down or insecure, but they really give
28:34
me the confidence. And then really sort of that pivotal
28:37
moment was when I had kids. So when I had my first child, and I
28:42
have three kids, and I think many of you who have kids can
28:46
relate to this. They gave me that confidence, desire to fight
28:51
for myself and to stand up for myself. I didn't really have
28:54
that much of a reason to do that before they showed up. But now
28:57
I'm like, you know, reason recently, there's been a lot of
29:02
you know, since the pandemic law talk about stop Asian hate
29:05
crimes against Asian community previous Winnie would have not
29:09
said much I would have just stayed current behind the
29:11
scenes. This now is different. Now. I've been I've been doing
29:15
some work with CNBC in that space, I credit a ton of content
29:19
with partnered up with LinkedIn on that. And I think that that
29:22
came from, from having kids from, you know, getting more
29:27
comfortable, and also having the confidence now saying, why not
29:31
have so much social media credibility, and I have so much
29:36
street cred. And the numbers show for themselves that we, I
29:39
guess, technically on paper are very successful. We're award
29:42
winning and recognized by Forbes. And I know in my skin
29:46
and I'm a really good human being. So there's nothing to be
29:48
ashamed of. And so I want to make the world a little bit
29:50
better for my kids and the future generation. So I gotta
29:53
stand up and do that. So it's sort of like it's one of those
29:55
aha moments, right? I mean, nobody can tell you you need to
29:58
feel better, but that's how it's how you You should feel better,
30:00
you should be more proud of yourself. And like, you know, I
30:03
still get like, I still cringe when people say, Well, how do
30:06
you feel? Now they're so successful may not really feel
30:08
successful, but I'm happy, you know? Yeah, so I think is that
30:15
mental thing, but I do think you need to find some reason you, my
30:19
publicist, by the way, I gotta tell you, she's like literally
30:21
one of my best friends on the planet now. She was she was on
30:25
TV, and then she became a publicist. And what she does,
30:29
which I love is she only takes one client, any respective
30:33
industry. So like, let's say, for example, she worked with an
30:37
attorney, right? That she would only have one attorney, she only
30:40
has one financial advisor. So when she like talks to the Today
30:43
Show, or she talks to whoever she talking to about being,
30:47
they'll say, like, oh, well, what are you doing? Well, but
30:49
the other ones, you know, I only had the best. And I needed
30:52
someone who believed in me that way when I didn't believe in
30:55
myself. So that's been super helpful.
30:58
Right? So I love I love that you talk about how important it is
31:01
to have the right people in your circle supporting you, because
31:06
there definitely are a lot of people out there that you know,
31:09
you will have working relationships with and they're
31:11
not really in your corner there. Maybe they're in their corner,
31:15
and they're not in your corner, you know, do you do you think
31:21
there is a sort of secret to good collaborative
31:26
relationships?
31:28
Absolutely. I think you're testing out this, I've done
31:31
research on you. I think, you know, I think the thing with
31:35
collaborative relationships, it always has to be a win win. But
31:39
more important than that, I think there has to be a personal
31:43
connection before it can be that way. You know, so often, I'm
31:48
sure all of you get all these, you know, inquiries on LinkedIn,
31:52
and Facebook and Instagram saying that they want you to
31:54
look at their business, this just doesn't work. We need to
31:57
find a commonality between us, right, a core value that we
32:01
believe in each other, and we really care about each other and
32:04
someone that I'm comfortable introducing to my best clients,
32:08
there has to be someone that in my heart I trust, I think that's
32:12
key. And you don't have to get along with everybody and you
32:15
never need to. But I will say one of the things that I I've
32:18
found to be the most meaningful and building relationships is to
32:22
be able to be comfortable walking away fast if it's not a
32:26
good fit. Because if you allow negativity in your life, and I
32:30
call negative terms, one negative one will completely
32:33
derail your life in your career, just like that, you need to be
32:37
so good about saying no, I can't have that person in my life. And
32:41
so that you can welcome really good people. But it's not about
32:44
having so many people. So like, you know, I have the largest
32:49
business, we chat on social media, we average 100 and 100
32:52
million impressions per week on our Twitch chat that lasts about
32:55
an hour. And, you know, I think the core group of us is probably
32:59
about 50. You know, we don't need to be 1000s in order to
33:04
drive this much traffic. And in real life, if you have, you
33:09
know, 1020 people and speak out that you can tax, you're really
33:13
rich, and that's enough. So it's less about numbers is more about
33:17
value. But more importantly, it's about being proactive in
33:22
terms of reaching out to them, when you don't need someone to
33:26
something and caring about them for the things that that matter
33:29
to them. And I think that's key. At least that's sort of been my
33:33
philosophy in life. My mom always told me that, if
33:37
someone's good to you, you treat them 10 times better. And that's
33:42
always been really good for me. So those people who are good to
33:46
me, I treat them like, like they know, I'll do anything for them.
33:50
Yeah, and I think that's, that's, that's it?
33:53
Yeah, I think that's something very powerful that you said that
33:56
you don't need that many. I know that I have a friend of mine who
34:00
was a coached mind for a while. And he was always saying you,
34:03
you don't need that many people. I mean, we have this idea in
34:06
social media that you gotta have, you know, hundreds of
34:09
1000s of followers and you have to do all of these things. But
34:13
really, you only need so there's only so much capacity, there's
34:18
only so much people can handle and and you know, if you if you
34:21
want to grow your business, obviously you can handle more
34:23
and more people. Right. But you know, there there are a lot of
34:27
sacrifices that come along with that as well. choices, right? So
34:31
I think that's very powerful. What you said that you serve,
34:34
finding the right people, and sometimes that takes time, you
34:37
don't know it's just like dating, you don't know. When you
34:40
first you know, go out with somebody you first meet them if
34:43
they're going to be somebody that you're going to really
34:45
resonate with and bond with. And think about all the people that
34:48
you've met through the years how many are still good friends, you
34:51
know, those are people who've invested in their relationship.
34:56
I there's something that's very interesting to me about on this
35:00
podcast, and my own experiences with people who offer offer to
35:06
collaborate with me, I find that white men are much more willing
35:16
to reach out cold, and invite themselves on my podcast or, or
35:23
talk with me about collaborating or coming on my podcast. And I
35:27
find a lot of times I often have to chase women, and different
35:35
different kinds of women that I want to have on this show. And I
35:39
think that it has a lot to do with this sort of fear of
35:43
visibility. And whereas, you know, a lot of the men, you
35:48
know, they're looking at it as a business, I got so many of these
35:50
things, I gotta check off my list, and I'm gonna go and get
35:53
the word out there. And it's been one of the challenges of
35:56
this podcast that I am I'm when it comes to women, particularly
36:00
women of color, diverse population. I'm often you know,
36:06
making several several, you know, overtures to try to get
36:09
people on the podcast. And I will tell you people, yeah,
36:12
good, good, good. And I think some of it is, unfortunately,
36:15
some of my networks have been really terrific. You know, I've
36:18
met some women who, you know, really great at referring people
36:23
to me and men, some men too, as well. And it's not that I don't
36:25
like men and want to have it. But this is a wealthy woman
36:27
lawyer podcast. So I don't want it to be all men, every week on
36:33
the show. And so do you have you I know you run a podcast, and
36:37
you have a team who's helping you source those guests for your
36:41
podcast? But have you noticed a difference in in men and women
36:45
as far as who's stepping up? I know, you have a much bigger
36:50
audience than I do. So that means configure into it as well.
36:52
But
36:54
well, I love this question to the media, because I was just
36:56
talking to my publishers about the same thing. You know, I 100%
37:00
agree with what you said. I think men by nature tend to a
37:04
lot more men have business leaders have publicists? That's
37:08
one thing. The other thing is they tend to, they tend to be
37:12
more comfortable doing media, right. I think, you know, when I
37:15
first started in media, I don't, I didn't feel like I actually
37:17
earned the right to do media for me for a long time. I felt like
37:22
you know, maybe it wasn't good enough. I didn't have enough
37:25
credibility, yet. I didn't feel like I earned a place. But
37:28
that's starting to change. I will say I agree with you is so
37:31
hard to find. A woman of color, especially to be on show I was
37:38
trying to you know, last month was Asian American Pacific
37:41
Islander. I was trying to find Asian women leaders and men
37:46
leaders on the show. And I was humming promises. This is so
37:49
hard. And I'm an Asian host, I can't believe this. Is that hard
37:52
to find someone to be on the show with? I can't believe they
37:54
don't want to be on the show. But I think it's you know, I'm
37:57
hoping that'll start to change as more of us talk about the
38:00
importance of building brands about social media. I think that
38:03
next generation, I think our millennials, and and Gen Z, I
38:09
think they're doing a much better job of, you know, now
38:11
with tick tock and Instagram and whatnot, of knowing that they
38:14
have a voice. But I agree, I think it's sort of that, that
38:18
that transition, we got to get more comfortable talking and
38:21
promoting ourselves. And just because we talk about ourselves,
38:24
doesn't degrade what we build. And it doesn't mean that we're
38:28
not women. And we're not mothers, and we're not
38:31
caregiving are not you know, sensitive, all that stuff is
38:33
still just as relevant. And I would say this is introverts and
38:38
women, let me just tell you, you are like a natural super social
38:42
media powerhouse. You just don't even know, introverts are like,
38:46
the most powerful people on social media, let me just tell
38:48
you, because for much of our lives, we were looking and
38:52
watching and not talking. So we learned how other people reacted
38:56
to us. And we're so sensitive about it that we end up creating
39:00
very good social media brands. You know, I think our first
39:02
80,000 followers was hard. I remember, but then it got to
39:05
250,000. Now over 300 1000s They sound like big numbers. And they
39:10
are like we said you only need that core 50. And then it'll
39:13
just organically grow.
39:15
Right? Right. Right. Has Have you noticed? Do you ever feel
39:21
like you need to be more careful on social media? When you're
39:25
talking on social media, the larger your audience has gotten?
39:28
Do you? Or do you think more intently about what you're
39:32
putting out there? As opposed to when you first started?
39:36
Oh, absolutely. I think it's never really changed. You know?
39:40
I, you know, in the financial industry, as well as I'm sure in
39:43
the legal industry, we're under such compliance scrutiny of what
39:47
we can and cannot say. And you know, that's that's the key.
39:51
That's always been the thing. I think with our financial
39:53
industry, why I don't have as much competition in the
39:56
financial space on social media is because people are just too
39:59
scared of me. We're seeing something wrong. And it's true.
40:02
I mean, on social media, you know, there's a lot of trolls
40:06
out there who want to crush you. I mean, I shared this really
40:08
simple tweet, I think just a couple of weeks ago, it actually
40:12
surprised me, it was like, you know, had interviewed a couple
40:15
of different people. One of the tweets was saying, like, you
40:17
know, now COVID, is now I guess, the fourth most common of death
40:23
for children under the age of 70. And I was like, shocked by
40:26
this. So I shared it on Twitter, like, I'm actually shocked by
40:29
this, as a parent, I couldn't, I can't believe this is actually
40:31
true. People were crushing me saying that, I was like, you
40:35
know, a COVID monger all the stuff, I was like, wow, that was
40:39
a lot. So of course, I deleted the tweet. But I think the thing
40:43
is, it is so polarizing right now. Because, of course, if
40:46
you're going to be on social media, you gotta be very mindful
40:49
that there's a lot of crazy people who want to take you down
40:52
for any little reason, right. And if you're on a podcast,
40:55
you're going to do that. People are just some people that are
40:58
really angry. But the good news is, if you choose to go, the
41:01
high road, and you choose to raise kindness is just sort of
41:05
my messaging, you will naturally attract 10 times more people
41:09
that are your people. So it shouldn't keep you from building
41:13
a brand. Because if you don't build a brand, someone else's
41:16
brand will define you. And that may not be to your benefit. So
41:20
one day, when you're not able to or if you're on vacation, you're
41:25
not bringing in new clients, your your practice will start to
41:27
get smaller, and it can't be that way. So you're gonna have
41:30
to build it so that even when you're not working, they're
41:34
still not out there trying to bring a new business for you.
41:37
And that is key. That's the way to build a really sustainable
41:41
practice, not only from a business standpoint, but we'll
41:44
help you feel better about what you do for people. And your
41:47
mental. So your mental game, when you build your business is
41:51
critical.
41:52
Right, right. Absolutely. And I think that's where a good
41:55
support network comes into. So you can bounce things off them
41:58
and go, Oh, was it me? Or did this just happen? Right. And I
42:03
do, I do know, from a marketing and messaging standpoint, I've
42:06
always felt that the more the more attractive you are, and I
42:10
mean, attractive and attracting your right people, the more
42:14
you're going to repel some people, because you're going to
42:17
have a very strong point of view. And that point of view is
42:20
going to be highly attractive, but it's also going to repel.
42:23
And so usually when I'm looking at something that's, you know,
42:26
I'm, I don't I strive not to be particularly controversial, but
42:31
I have, you know, I'm also very much myself, and I have some
42:34
controversial, you know, opinions about things. But I
42:37
also just, I believe that there are enough people out there,
42:42
when I, when I'm discussing my point of view, that there are
42:46
people who need to know that they're supportive, that align
42:49
with that point of view. And so I do it for them, right. And
42:53
then I don't worry so much about people, because people who don't
42:56
like me, are going to be my clients anyway. So we've just,
43:00
you know, just establish that we don't waste we have to waste any
43:03
time. One of the things that you said, Now, you know, you are in
43:08
the wealth industry, and it's exactly I, I've, I've reached
43:11
out to different people in the wealth industry before and said,
43:14
I'd love to have you on my show, because the podcast is well
43:16
people, women lawyer. But in the financial industry, I've gotten
43:20
a lot of nose because I've got people who've said, Well, I'm
43:23
scared, you know, I can't do that, because we're not allowed
43:26
to talk about now, you and I, today, if people were signing up
43:31
for this, because they think we were gonna, they were gonna give
43:33
a lot of financial advice today, they'll probably be
43:35
disappointed. But I know that you there are certain
43:39
restrictions on what you can say, because obviously, you
43:41
could say something just off the hat, you know, off the cuff and
43:44
somebody would run out and do it. And then, you know, come
43:46
back and bite you hold you accountable. Well, when the son
43:50
said that, so I went and invested in this thing, right?
43:54
What would you say though? Is there anything that you could
43:57
say to the women law firm owners, one of the things that I
44:01
believe in building wealth is that they, they start with
44:05
building their wealth generating law firm, and that wealth
44:07
generating business is going to be the thing that's then going
44:10
to allow them to make the investments and other things
44:13
that they need to be able to it's the foundational piece,
44:16
like any businesses, like your first business that you came up
44:21
with where you were moving audiences from studio to studio
44:24
and managing audiences. That was a key foundation to you building
44:28
wealth and going on to the next thing. What what kinds of sort
44:33
of if we were to leave somebody with some thoughts on the state
44:36
of the economy now, and our wealth, what would you what
44:40
would you be able to say that wouldn't be out of line for you
44:45
to say?
44:46
Sure, sure. No, I'm happy to share. I think, you know, when
44:50
we're as business owners, we are really good at doing what we do.
44:54
Right? We are great at servicing our clients. We're going caring
44:57
for our clients, and what that not All of us wants to do the
45:01
bookkeeping and the payroll and whatnot. So we know our
45:04
limitations. And I think that's a really powerful skill, you
45:08
need to know what you're not good at. And I would say that,
45:11
you know, getting I credit, one of my most early relationships,
45:16
I was in my early 20s, just starting off, and I met an
45:19
accountant. And the accountant has been now my accounting, like
45:23
forever, right. And he, I met him when I was just starting off
45:26
not making that much money. And he's helped me through the
45:28
years. And I think with a good financial advisor, you want to
45:33
do that, because you need to build focus on your practice,
45:36
you need to focus on marketing, and you need to have somebody
45:39
who cares and works just as hard as you do to help you manage
45:43
your money. Should you be managing your money, should you
45:46
be investing right now? Absolutely. So there's so many
45:50
great opportunities right now. So as you've gone through the
45:52
pandemic, you know, we've been making changes to different
45:54
portfolios, I think one thing that we've been, we're very
45:57
successful at, for our clients, you know, most people don't know
46:01
when to sell. And one thing that we're really good when we build,
46:04
we do customize portfolios for our clients. And we know when to
46:08
sell when to take profit, and when to rebalance, and when to
46:12
add. And so right now, for our clients we're holding, many of
46:15
our clients are holding larger amounts of cash currently,
46:18
because as you know, like just with inflation being so high
46:21
real estate market being more challenging, and of course, many
46:26
of the stock indices have already touched bear market
46:30
levels, there's good opportunities if your time
46:32
horizon is long. So as a you know, business owner of any
46:36
gender, any practice, I would say, you owe it to yourself to
46:40
make sure that you are saving in your retirement account, every
46:44
single time you get paid. That's key, that cannot be a
46:47
negotiable, whether it be a SEP IRA or a one person 401k, or a
46:52
simple 401k, or traditional 401k, you should be doing that.
46:56
And you should also be doing your Roth IRA or traditional
46:59
IRA. Now, many of you don't qualify to go directly to the
47:02
Roth IRA. But then you should know that as of right now, the
47:05
last rule says that you're able to do a back door. So you should
47:08
actually be looking at these opportunities and not letting
47:10
them pass. Because if there's one thing I've learned, as a
47:14
financial advisor for 20, something years is that the most
47:18
successful start young, right? My oldest son, my oldest child
47:22
is 13 years old. And now he's work. He's he's got work that
47:26
he's doing. And he's saving into his Roth IRA. He also has his
47:30
credit card that I set up for him. And these are things that
47:33
we need to be sharing, not only for ourselves, but they're good
47:36
for our clients, and also good for the next generation. So if
47:39
you don't we're not in most of us are not in the work of
47:44
nonprofit, meaning that we run nonprofits, not that we don't
47:46
serve as nonprofit clients, because I do, I'm sure you do.
47:50
But we need to get thinking that part of our job is also making
47:56
and building wealth, right for ourselves. But it's not just
47:59
building wealth was also building smart. Well, that is
48:03
tax shelter, that has continuous growth, that, you know, reaps
48:07
the benefits of dividends and compound interest all these
48:10
things. And you can only do that if you know that the advice that
48:13
you're getting, you don't have to second guess all the time, so
48:15
you can just focus on being brilliant, right? And then
48:19
making sure that that that money is invested properly. So
48:23
absolutely. Like I would love to share, like what to invest in on
48:26
a public forum course I won't, because I know not to. But at
48:30
any point, if you want to just you know, talk shop, or you want
48:34
a second opinion, we I'm doing like pro bono, corporate
48:38
speaking all day long right now. So if your company wants us to
48:41
come in and talk, we're doing that right now, as long as it's
48:43
virtual, happy to do it. So we're doing that for like NBC
48:47
we're doing for employees, the LA Times and tensile football is
48:50
big company. So, you know, there's interest, definitely
48:53
reach out.
48:54
We Well, I think I think that's a good note to end on. Because
48:58
I'd love for you to share how people can connect with you on
49:02
social media or in any other way that you want, or how they can
49:05
find out more information on working with you. If you do
49:08
that. That would be great. And we'll be sure to include that in
49:10
the show notes as well.
49:12
I love it. Thank you Divina. Well, you know, I think one
49:14
thing to keep in mind is I've been a financial advisor and my
49:16
team are very seasoned. So what's good about that is we're
49:21
never going to pressure you to be a client. If you want to be a
49:23
client, we're easy to find you just Google Winnie son, I pop up
49:26
everywhere, wherever you are, I'm not. And you know, you're
49:30
always welcome to kick the tires and get to know us I actually
49:33
welcome that. I always tell people, you know, just kind of
49:36
get to know us talk and see if it's a good fit. You know, even
49:40
if it's a year or five years or so gonna be here. You don't have
49:44
to make that decision today. And that's key. I think you want to
49:48
quality relationships, just like I'm sure you know, those who are
49:51
looking for an attorney or lawyer looking for someone that
49:54
they they can trust and build that friendship with long term.
49:57
And I would just, you know, kept that same mindset when you reach
50:01
out to us or somebody else, because we're in it for the long
50:05
run, and yeah, so we're really easy to find. But if we can add
50:08
value to your employees to a company that you work with,
50:12
that's actually what we love to do we we do, do we want to try
50:15
to earn that business before you decide to do business with us?
50:20
Right, right. And the time is probably right now with all that
50:23
is going on in the economy. If there's a time to seek out
50:27
advice, this would be a great time to do it, I would imagine,
50:31
because there are so many questions about what's going on
50:34
and getting other people who you know that that's their
50:38
wheelhouse getting their thoughts and opinions would
50:41
probably be very helpful.
50:42
So what do you thank you so much for being here today? I've
50:44
enjoyed it immensely. And I'm so glad we were finally able to
50:48
connect and have you on wealthy woman lawyer podcast.
50:51
Well, thank you. So it's an honor and thank you so much for
50:53
being patient with me. I love the experience. And I'm such a
50:56
huge fan of you. So thank you. Thank you for this time. Thank
50:59
you