Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Denise Shick: Navigating Faith-Based LGBT Conversations, Questions

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Denise Shick: Navigating Faith-Based LGBT Conversations, Questions · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Welcome to another edition where past 500 episodes praise God and thank you for your
• 0:27
  prayers.
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  You're sharing the podcast on social media, your support, and just thank you guys so very
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  much.
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  God bless you.
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  Another very important topic today with an expert on this topic, and I want to just
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  share a little bit, a couple questions first, and this is a given idea where we're going
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  today.
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  Should we use a person's preferred pronouns if they ask or demand?
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  Can you be a Christian and be LGBTQ?
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  What's the Harman drag shows?
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  What does the Bible say about same sex relationships?
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  Does it say anything about that?
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  While more youth have been identifying as LGBT in recent years, the trend and the popularity
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  seems to be reversing, it seems so.
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  But yet, almost 8% of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQ, 8%.
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  That seems like a lot.
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  So Gen Z is one of those age groups that have been programmed with all the garbage, the
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  deception, and the propaganda, all their lives.
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  Think about it, and we've got decades and decades of programming thanks to Hollywood,
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  the media, corporations, many in the Democrat Party, and the list goes on and on, academia,
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  K through 12, oh my goodness, we need a clear biblical worldview to start from.
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  And we're going to bring in today's guest.
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  She's got a brand new book out.
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  It's called Grace and Truth.
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  Author Denise Schick is back with us.
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  She's got an amazing story, amazing testimony.
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  We're going to talk about navigating faith-based LGBT conversations with young people.
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  Denise, good to see you.
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  Thanks for coming back again.
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  Sure, it's great to be back with you.
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  Yeah, congrats on the new book.
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  Is it available on Amazon?
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  It is available on Amazon.
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  Okay, great.
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  We can send people there, but I do want to give your website help for the letter for the number
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  four families.
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  Help the number four families.com.
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  It's livingstonesministries.org slash help for families.
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  First of all, for those that are newer to the podcast since we had you on a year ago,
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  tell us about help for families and the ministry, how you got involved, how that got going.
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  Yeah, well, I guess to start with your second question first of how I got started in this
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  line of work, it would be with God really using my personal experience with my dad, who
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  came out to me at nine years old of designing to become a woman and sharing many different
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  details, secrets with me that day, having my own personal journey of what that was like
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  as a child, the grief, sorrow, the many challenges as I grew into a young woman as well.
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  But wondering why was there not a church that we could go to that could support our family
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  that would be able to help my dad, should he want that kind of help?
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  And I really believe that God had used those desires from years back to create help for
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  families, to create an environment where we came alongside of families that are hurting
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  and desperately wanting somebody that understands what they're going through.
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  So is that the best website to get all the information on what you're doing?
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  Is it livingstonesministries.org and help for families is the same thing?
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  Yes, it is.
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  Help for families has been around for 24 years.
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  Livingstones Ministries was another ministry that I was asked and through some prayer time
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  with my board of directors where we also had taken that on as a program, as a basically
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  sister program of each other.
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  So I know we had you on to talk about more of your personal testimony the last time.
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  And I want to make sure, because we do have praise God, we have a lot more listeners and
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  viewers than a year ago, Jeff, could you bring up the search on the worldviewmatters.tv,
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  worldviewmatters.tv and type in Denise Schick, it's S-H-I-C-K, there's the first podcast
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  with you and that's when you shared your testimony out of the darkness.
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  Now that was you have another book, right?
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  Yes, it's really one of the passions on my heart to educate, to provide resources that
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  help the Christian community understand through real stories, you know, people that are
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  living through these challenges, but without of the darkness was really at the heart of
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  the individual that struggles with their identity.
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  Let's take a look and dig into what does God's words say, you know, about struggling
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  with being an envenous, somebody else, of desiring, of woundedness, the different reasons
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  or causes that I would say with those that I have met that struggle with their identity.
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  So I'm looking at your book page, I mean, you've got a bunch of books that you've written.
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  In fact, if I remember right, you've written some children's books as well, helping kids,
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  Christian kids and understand this.
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  Can you just mention some of your other book titles, please?
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  Yes, we have the boy who liked tea parties, what's up with cousin Stacey on Glad God
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  made me a girl, do superheroes play piano, I would like to say at this time that we're
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  expecting a new release likely in the next month that is titled My New Neighbor.
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  And so we're really excited about this project as well.
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  My daddy, when daddy leads to be a girl is another children's book, that was actually
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  my first one.
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  It was created to come alongside of a child in my type of situation in a therapeutic way.
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  Wow.
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  So I know we haven't even gotten into grace and truth yet, but talk to maybe anyone that's
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  listening or watching, that either has someone in their family or knows someone who's
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  got a parent that's identifying as the opposite gender.
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  And you're, you're started at night when you were nine years old, that's when your dad
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  started.
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  Yes, that's when he had come out to me, to share.
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  So it reminds a very long story, it wasn't until really when I was 26 when he had looked
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  to transition.
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  Okay.
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  There were many years of many different layers, I should say, of what my family had
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  gone through.
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  I mean, how, I guess I should just jump into your book.
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  I was just going to ask you more questions than I probably already asked you when we had
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  you on the first time.
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  So I'll let people go look up that first interview with you and get more of that personal
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  story.
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  But so let's just start with one of the first chapters in your book and your new book
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  is a person born with a gender identity or is, or, or is gender fluid?
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  Is that even a possibility?
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  And I think most of us know the answer to that, but it just explained why you decided
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  to lead with that chapter title.
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  Well, I think particularly in our culture, we've heard so much about gender fluid, you
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  know, and that it's almost like with the younger generation that they'd wake up one day
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  and say, well, I'm a boy.
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  And these are real stories where then a day later or a week later, no, really, I'm a
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  girl.
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  I mean, it's, it's confusion and it's chaos where that doesn't really lead anybody into
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  a healthy perspective of who they really are, especially in an environment and a culture
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  that will look to destroy who you are as God's creation.
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  So I'm moving through some of the chapters.
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  I'm just in the table of contents right now, just there's so many good questions and
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  so many good topics that you write about.
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  And it's very important for Christian families to understand how to respond to this because
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  it's prevalent.
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  I wish it wasn't, I wish it wasn't all over our society, all over our culture.
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  And even, unfortunately, in the church, let me go back to that right now, Denise.
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  Christian families can be hit by this.
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  And I think some, if not most, are probably embarrassed to talk about it.
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  How would you counsel or what advice would you give to a Christian family that has, whether
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  it's a parent or a son or daughter, or brother or sister that's struggling in this area?
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  And they're going to church.
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  There was, there were a very popular family at church and now they've got this, oh,
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  going on at home.
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  What would you say to them?
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  You know, I would say to them in the sense of what I had to learn myself was that how
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  much Satan loved it when I stayed isolated, when I stayed away from others because of
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  the shame, the embarrassment of how I felt internally that this was a reflection of myself.
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  And when we allow ourselves to stay captive in a sense to the enemy schemes, we don't
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  grow spiritually and we certainly don't begin our own healing process.
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  I think that the most difficult first step is to find somebody to step up and say, this
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  is what I'm going through.
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  This is what's happening, but obviously we want to be careful with who we're sharing
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  that with and know that they are somebody that's trustworthy.
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  It's really just coming out and sharing, saying those words and yet at the same time
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  that can be very difficult because then it's reality.
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  Before we say it, we can pretend in the law, law, land that maybe we're mistaken or, oh,
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  this is going to get better.
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  When generally speaking, these are pretty long journeys also to stay focused on what
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  is God trying to teach you, what is God want to show you through what's your experiencing.
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  So often as family members, we become focused on our loved ones.
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  We look at what they're doing wrong or how they're not living biblically and honoring
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  of God.
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  Instead of saying, Lord, what is it you want to show me?
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  So by the way, I want to mention Laura Perry Smoltz is going to be speaking at the World
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  View Matters Conference May 1st and 2nd.
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  She of course is a former transgender.
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  She changed her name legally to Jake, lived as a man for nine years, had the breast removed
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  the hysterectomy sadly, but she now is a just amazing woman in ministering came to Christ
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  or came back to Christ and has an amazing testimony.
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  But it's just so sad.
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  I want to go back to a question.
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  So what leads to, and I know there's so many different things based on what age you
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  are, whether you're in public schools or what leads to gender identity, confusion in the
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  first place, Denise.
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  Well, we can take a look at what's going on in the culture.
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  And number one, you know, as you had spoke earlier, sharing about our educational systems
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  that have started with children's books as early as preschool for so long for, you know,
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  we've had a couple of decades here where it's just been unreal and people didn't realize
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  what was going on behind the scenes.
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  So we have to take a look and to be honest and say, yes, the educational system is responsible
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  for a lot of the confusion, the difficulty in parents' rights to know what is going
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  on with their child at school.
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  But if we look at the person individually and say, what are some of the root causes that
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  may create the thought that becoming somebody else is a much better place to be than who
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  they truly are, we look at the brokenness of the heart, the brokenness of the soul.
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  And that occurs through not always, but sexual abuse, emotional abuse, they may have actually
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  witnessed, for instance, a parent, maybe a mother that's been disrespected, emotionally
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  abused by a father where the son looks at the father figure and says, I don't want
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  to be like him, the same thing with girls, you know, particularly if a girl doesn't feel
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  that she's valued as a girl in the family, maybe the brothers get all the attention and
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  the affirmations, there are so many reasons Satan will use to try to grab a hold of that
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  child's thoughts or that person's thoughts and make them feel devalued of who they really
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  are.
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  So I know we're jumping around because there's so many questions, so many things to talk
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  about regarding this issue, but friends, the book is called Grace and Truth Navigating
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  Faith-Based LGBT Conversations with youth, we need to know how to respond to what's going
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  on all around us, we can't get away from it, not in this day and age, not in this culture.
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  So Christians need to know how to respond this biblically.
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  I want to go back to something, I started off the podcast with asking the question, should
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  we use the preferred pronouns of someone who says they're the opposite sex when we know
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  it's not true, obviously, when they are saying, you need to use my pronouns, these are
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  the pronouns.
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  How do we respond in that situation?
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  People have been fired for not using someone else's pronouns, and I know that happens a
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  lot in the public schools, parents sometimes don't even know about it, but the teachers
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  are using these pronouns, and then I'll just let you answer that question.
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  How do Christians respond to this topic?
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  I think when it comes to the pronouns and to respond that we need to be careful as God's
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  people to respond gracefully, to be careful with our words and the tone of our words,
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  so that we are not coming across in a judgmental way, in a shaman way at all, but rather to
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  reflect and say, this goes against my personal values, my personal beliefs, because of my
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  personal convictions, I'm unable to call Jake Jody, or whatever their name is.
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  I hope that you understand, I do love you, and I would still like to have that relationship
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  if you are open to that.
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  So is it, is one of the bottom lines from the Bible's perspective, from the Word of God,
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  a lie to call someone the opposite sexual opposite gender, isn't it a lie when they demand
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  to be reefed, whatever they identify as?
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  Are we lying, and that's setting a pretty bad example for young people, for children,
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  if parents or people in the workplace are lying about someone else's gender, because
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  they're pronouns.
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  Go ahead and speak to that, please.
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  Yeah, I think that we need to be honest as God's people.
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  With my father, I never referred to him as Becky, or any of the female pronouns and
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  names any of that.
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  My heart's desire was on out of my own hurt and pain.
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  It was out of him, out of his need to recognize that this was a fantasy that he was living
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  in.
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  It was not the truth.
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  It was not who God had created him to be, and so to be honest, when we look at, I believe
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  in John 822, where he says, the truth will set you free, that it is the truth that does
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  set people free, that those that are held captive into this blind spot, that they are really
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  something other than what they are to value them.
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  There's also a scripture I can't think right now where it's at, but it is a reference
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  to lying, deceiving your neighbor, you know, to go against that.
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  So I've never found anything biblically to support calling whether it's your loved one
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  or whoever it is by that name of pronoun.
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  You know, obviously, you know, people aren't all people aren't going to respect your boundaries,
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  but they are your boundaries.
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  If we represent Jesus Christ well and what we say in the attitude of our heart, then we
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  leave the rest up between God and them.
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  It's not our job to save them.
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  It's not our job to try to bait and to get them to see things our way.
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  We have to leave certain things up to God and the person.
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  Excellent. Thank you, Denise.
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  And I agree.
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  Give me the BCV book chapter in verse where it's okay for Christian to lie about any of these
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  issues, pronouns or anything else.
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  But what did Jesus ever, did Jesus ever accommodate someone who was not walking in truth or did
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  he go along with something that was a sin?
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  No, never.
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  Jesus didn't never accommodate it.
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  He always spoke the truth in love.
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  As you said, we can be gracious.
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  We are not in control of how they respond, but we are in control of being led by the Holy
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  Spirit and using truth in a loving way to get through to people.
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  Some people, you might be the only person that they hear it from, Christian.
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  They're not going to hear it from Hollywood, the education system, the media, corporations.
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  They're not going to hear it out there from most places.
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  Even some churches won't even touch it.
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  So Christian, you might be the only one that's going to be able to speak to this rather
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  than accommodate and say, yeah, yeah, let me just affirm you.
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  And that leads me to my next question, Denise.
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  Why do post-operative transgenders report higher levels of stress and depression and often
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  leading to suicide attempts or thoughts?
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  Why is that?
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  Yeah, you know, their hope is that by altering their bodies, they will become happier.
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  They will be more content in life in general of who they are, that there will be finally
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  a piece that they have sought after.
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  But unfortunately, you know, the surgical procedures cannot change a person's biological sex
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  or address more importantly, the deeper emotional spiritual wounds of the heart.
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  As a result, some people that go in with the great hopes of having surgery and at the
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  end of the perfect solution only discover afterwards.
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  This has not taken care of whatever the problem is.
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  Maybe it's their low self-esteem of who they are or feeling unloved or unwanted.
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  The confusion, you know, the continued distress continues.
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  I think this is why the most loving thing to do is to speak the truth.
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  And to say compassionately, I understand that you're confused about who you are.
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  Will you allow me to tell you about Jesus?
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  Will you allow me to tell you about what Jesus has done for me because I know he can
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  do this for you too?
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  Amen.
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  Amen.
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  You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
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  By the way, Denise found an executive director of Help for Families Ministry and Executive
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  Director of Living Stones Ministries.
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  She's got many, many more books than just Grace and Truth, which is the new one we're
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  talking about.
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  But Denise, before we jump back into the book and I have another couple of questions that
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  they want to squeeze in here, I want to ask about a recent news story.
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  This is very interesting about so-called conversion therapy, which there's lawsuits in different
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  states as we kind of touched on before we got on the podcast.
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  But a great story, Colorado, can no longer ban counselors from helping minors escape LGBTQ
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  ideology.
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  This is a Supreme Court ruling.
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  In other words, the ban against those who might be truly seeking help for their gender
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  confusion, they're sincerely confused.
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  There are bans in different states that you cannot go to Christian counselors.
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  And so this is a great ruling.
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  Your thoughts on that where we're at and will this maybe set a precedent for other cases?
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  Oh, I sure hope that it does.
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  I think that maybe what we are experiencing in the last four, five months or so is to
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  see a turn around with people coming to common sense, especially with the former transgender
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  ers, you know, that have the surgeries that all the manipulation that had gone on behind
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  the scenes or just them recognizing of what they truly needed.
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  And that was God's love, the love of other people.
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  And so I do believe that this is a very important decision and it is a move in the right direction.
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  It touches on the dignity of people made in the image of God and yet also the responsibility
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  of counselors, the availability to bring into the counseling room of the Christian ethics,
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  especially if the person is actually seeking it and they're wanting to know what does God
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  say about this or somebody's feeling uncomfortable and is open to that perspective where that
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  is what they are looking for.
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  But we have to remember the roles of the parents and empowering the parents and limiting the
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  power of the government over children.
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  So again, with what was decided on with the Supreme Court, I definitely think that we are
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  in the right direction.
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  Yes.
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  Unfortunately, as we had discussed so much damage has been done in the last couple of decades,
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  it's not like the panorama of ox has been opened.
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  And so we can't stop it back in and pretend that everything's going to be okay again like
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  it was.
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  It won't, but at least more awareness and I think people just making more logical decisions.
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  I also believe that this will impact our youth as they have become more informed about
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  the decisions about the medical consequences that sometimes happens through the surgeries.
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  And you have counseled many young people that have been confused about either homosexuality
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  or gender dysphoria, things like that.
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  You've done some counseling.
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  And remind me again, Denise, what state do you live in?
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  I actually live in North Carolina.
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  Okay.
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  Are there any laws there against so-called conversion therapy or?
• 23:18
  Yeah, there is not.
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  Okay.
• 23:22
  Good.
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  So by the way, it depends on where you get your information friends because about this
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  case, the Supreme Court ruled eight to one.
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  The only justice was the radical leftist, Contangie Brown Jackson, ruled in favor of continuing
• 23:38
  to ban conversion therapy.
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  But NPR, here's how they handle it.
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  I wish we had more time to talk about this because this influences people.
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  NPR said the so-called conversion therapy was debunked.
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  So Christian counseling of LGBTQ was debunked by every major medical organization in the
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  country.
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  That's what NPR put out.
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  And other radical leftist or progressive media outlets, they're going to be against the
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  biblical worldview.
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  So they're going to be arguing in favor of these bands.
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  Your thoughts on that before I get to the next question?
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  Oh, I'm waiting to see what the world has yet to come, you know, with all of this that
• 24:20
  is going on.
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  And again, I think people need to be in tune to pay attention to what's happening.
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  Go and vote.
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  Make a difference.
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  Know what's going on in your children's schools and their and your communities.
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  You can make a difference if that is what the Lord calls you to do to be involved in
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  these type of situations.
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  So by the way, is your next book?
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  I think I, is it understanding gender confusion?
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  The second edition?
• 24:45
  Actually, no.
• 24:46
  The next one that will be released is my new neighbors.
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  Okay.
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  The story here will help to guide families specifically that find out they have a gay
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  neighbor.
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  That's interesting.
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  I think a lot of people would be surprised at who their neighbors are.
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  But maybe that's for another podcast.
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  Final question, Denise, and this goes back to something we were talking about the beginning.
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  The perception, especially young people, Gen Z, why do you believe more youth are identifying
• 25:17
  as LGBTQ?
• 25:18
  It's not going away because they've been pushing this for decades and decades and decades.
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  It's been in education, it's been in social media, it's been Hollywood.
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  They're approving of and pushing this anti-biblical, these anti-biblical lifestyles.
• 25:37
  But why do you think so many youth get drawn into this?
• 25:41
  Is it to be popular with their friends?
• 25:43
  Is it for attention?
• 25:44
  Are they really confused?
• 25:45
  Go ahead.
• 25:46
  Now, I think you named a lot of it there, but I would also put in addition to the pressure
• 25:52
  at school to be accepted, especially if you are more of a loner or you don't feel like
• 25:57
  you have very many friends.
• 25:59
  This is a group that's very easy for them to accept you if you identify as LGBT.
• 26:05
  But we also have to take a look at social media.
• 26:08
  And that is a big influence on our younger generation.
• 26:12
  Who are they listening to?
• 26:13
  What is the music they're listening to?
• 26:16
  I never had thought that we'd be living in a day where we have influencers, you know,
• 26:21
  and those are the people that are as well making a difference in our young people's lives.
• 26:26
  Yeah, yep, yep, so much.
• 26:28
  I go, it comes back to the principle of influence hours of influence.
• 26:32
  How many hours are they at church or reading their Bible or with their family, as opposed
• 26:38
  to out with their friends who probably do not believe in God in the school system watching
• 26:44
  movies that Hollywood puts out, corporate messages, the corporations are putting out hours
• 26:50
  of influence.
• 26:51
  So this is for families navigating faith-based LGBT conversations with youth.
• 26:58
  Denise Schick, thank you for all you do.
• 27:01
  The website, again, friends, it's helpforfamilies.
• 27:04
  Is it.com?
• 27:05
  Yes, help for the number four families, or you can go to livingstoneministries.org, closing
• 27:11
  thoughts in 30 seconds, Denise.
• 27:14
  I just wish to encourage your listeners, you know, in today's world that God is still
• 27:18
  in charge, no matter what we see going on in the chaos.
• 27:21
  But really, when you see a family member that maybe you find out has a loved one that
• 27:26
  is struggling in these ways or a person themselves, just to recall the Lord calling out to their
• 27:35
  heart, you know, for the family members, he wants to be their comfort.
• 27:38
  He wants to be their healing hand, just as he does for the individual that is confused
• 27:44
  or looking for a way out.
• 27:46
  And pray, friends, pray for that person and the situation as well, Denise, thank you
• 27:50
  again.
• 27:51
  God bless you.
• 27:52
  Thank you.
• 27:53
  Thank you.
• 27:54
  Bye-bye.
• 27:55
  Friends, keep sharing the podcast.
• 27:56
  Praise God.
• 27:57
  Thanks for your support.
• 27:58
  God bless you.
• 27:59
  And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.