Latest / Friday I'm in Bed / It’s Friday, I’m Bringing Wine to the Protest

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It’s Friday, I’m Bringing Wine to the Protest · Friday I'm in Bed

0:00
Welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
0:02
Podcast for midlife women living their best life while in bed by
0:06
10. This week on Friday, I'm in Bed,
0:14
We're talking about Jamila Jamil, the leaked text, the
0:17
backlash, and whether calling out another woman suddenly makes
0:20
you a fake feminist. We're asking why women are
0:23
expected to be perfect advocates at all times, and why nuance
0:27
disappears the second a screenshot appears.
0:30
We're also talking about Amber David's opening up, about the
0:33
level of trolling she received after being on reality TV, and
0:36
the uncomfortable truth that a lot of it came from older women.
0:39
Why does that happen and what's really going on underneath it?
0:42
And finally, we're getting into the wine Mum narrative and how
0:45
women of a certain age keep finding themselves blamed this
0:49
time for being angry, organized and apparently responsible for
0:52
protests too. Same old story, new headline.
0:55
Outspoken women are the problem. Grab a cuppa and let's get into
0:58
it. Hi Kate, nice to see you again.
1:03
What do I always say? Why do I always say it in that
1:05
voice like hi, how are you? I.
1:09
Don't know, but did somebody get the well Leopard memo today?
1:14
Yes. We're both wearing I bought this
1:18
yesterday, so I bought this is the dress I'm wearing is I think
1:22
I think I've out man repelled myself in my outfit today.
1:26
So I went to Oliver bonus yesterday and this was in the in
1:29
the sale. So it's got like puffy sleeves
1:32
and a collar and it's like big and loose and shapeless.
1:37
And I feel like, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm the ultimate man.
1:39
Repelling outfit today, I think. And leopard print I love.
1:43
Leopard print, and I live in the leopard print dress I'm wearing
1:46
today because it's comfortable. So what have you been up to?
1:50
Well, I got my ear pierced last week, didn't I?
1:52
We didn't hurt that. No, I have what it was a bit
1:55
uncomfortable, but the women kept apologizing to me.
1:57
I think my my pain threshold is quite high, but wouldn't get K
2:01
Oh, I'm so sorry. It's awful.
2:02
And I was like, no, it's all right.
2:04
But yeah, it wasn't comfortable. I wouldn't like, you know, do it
2:07
for fun, although I know some people do, but we won't get into
2:09
that today. But but yeah, it was all right.
2:11
And I like it and it's it's cute.
2:13
I probably can't see it on camera.
2:15
And people who would just listen to this can't see it anyway, so
2:16
I'll stop about that. And I went out on Sunday because
2:21
Burns Night. So I went Nate Haggis.
2:24
That's very good, isn't it? And I read a bit of the Ode to
2:28
the Haggis out as well. Very good, what about you and be
2:32
exciting? No, no, my wife is daughter GCSE
2:39
mocks. So I've been doing Elizabethan
2:42
England and the Cold War. So I can tell you all about that
2:47
because I've been helping her revise and my son is having
2:51
interviews and auditions as we speak for universities.
2:54
So he's been rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing,
2:57
stressing, rehearsing breakdown, rehearsing, stressing, you know,
3:00
you know how it goes. So yeah, that's that's been me
3:04
really for the week. But I've got a gig lined up on
3:07
Saturday night, so this weekend I'm going to be going out.
3:11
So that's good because I haven't felt like coming out for two
3:13
weeks. In bed by 10.
3:17
Yeah, definitely. Anyway.
3:21
Yeah. So I will say, I mean, I think
3:23
we are going to cover this later on in the thing.
3:26
Obviously, there's been a lot going on in America and the news
3:30
over the weekend was a bit heavy.
3:31
So I just wanted to say before we start, that's going to be in
3:35
our last topic. We will be talking about some of
3:39
that in a particular way that relates relates to us.
3:43
So if that's not for you, you can skip out before the end.
3:47
That's all. That's our trigger warning.
3:50
Should we get into it? Yes, OK, so the first thing
4:00
that's happened this week we're going to talk about is Jamila
4:03
Jamil having all of her texts released between her and her
4:07
publicist who is called Jennifer Abel.
4:10
So there is back story to this. So which I actually had to read
4:16
up on because again, it's kind of celebrity gossipy, which
4:20
isn't always by thing to know all the details about.
4:23
Basically it starts with Blake Lively, starts with Blake
4:27
Lively, who is suing Justin Baldoni because there was a film
4:32
that came out August 24, I think it was over the summer 24 called
4:36
it ends with us and there is a big job.
4:39
Basically they're bickering about Blake Lively said he
4:42
created a terrible work environment, accused him of
4:44
inappropriate behaviour. He then Countess, then she sued
4:49
him and he countersued her and then someone sued someone else.
4:51
Everyone's suing everybody basically.
4:53
But as part of that, Lively was criticized, for instance, for
4:57
promoting some like beauty products during the the press
5:02
junket stuff for the for the film, because the film's got
5:05
some quite heavy themes. It talks about domestic violence
5:08
and things like that. So she was criticized for that.
5:11
All sorts of other texts have been released.
5:13
Ryan Reynolds, Taylor Swift, like all the big names are
5:17
involved in this. And then some texts have been
5:20
released from Jamila Jamil. Her publicist is the same
5:23
publicist as Justin Baldoni has. And they are friends,
5:28
apparently. So in the text messages they're
5:30
talking, they appear to be talking about a TikTok video
5:32
which is of Blake Lively promoting her beauty products of
5:36
some kind. And from what I've seen, they it
5:40
appears to be the publicist, Jennifer Abel, is kind of angry.
5:44
And Jameel Jamil is agreeing with her.
5:47
She calls, she calls her a suicide bomber.
5:50
That phrase has been taken out a lot.
5:53
She's a bizarre. She says it's a bizarre villain
5:55
act. And yeah, so I think there's a
5:58
lot of things going on behind it.
6:00
Jameela Jamil's been called a fake feminist because she has
6:04
obviously been criticizing other women and specifically because
6:08
Blake Lively accused Justin Baldoni of inappropriate
6:10
behaviour. And there's questions around
6:12
that. Is it OK to to criticize other
6:15
women? Or if you're going to be a
6:16
feminist, do you have to support the sisterhood at all times?
6:20
And also the release of the group chat, that's one of the
6:25
big things as well. Do we say things with a digital
6:29
footprint that we would maybe say to each other in person that
6:34
we wouldn't want released publicly?
6:36
Maybe so I don't know what which question to start with Kate, do
6:41
you ever say do you have you got text messages in hidden in your?
6:44
Cupboard you wouldn't want people to see.
6:49
I don't know whether I do. I have to think about that.
6:54
However, text messages or not, we are all allowed to have an
6:59
opinion on somebody without it being released to the world.
7:05
I think there is a bit of that feeling of has she, I was going
7:10
to say set up, that's not the right word.
7:12
Has she, I was going to say violated that probably not the
7:14
right word either. But you know, I don't know what
7:16
the word is, but is it fair to have to release text messages
7:22
about somebody for a case like this?
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When it's just opinion, those texts, surely so it's, you know,
7:31
she had an opinion on it. She has an opinion on one member
7:36
of the case. It gets released.
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Is that fair? Because we all, well, we might
7:44
not all know somebody that's been to court, but we might
7:46
have, if we do, we'll have an opinion on them.
7:48
Do we need that aired? I don't know.
7:50
So there's a, there's a bit of that, but I don't think that's
7:53
what she's saying, is it? I think she's the comeback has
7:56
been from people that she's a fake feminist for not being on
8:01
the woman's side. I think that's what I'm reading.
8:04
Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, basically.
8:08
And so my opinion on that is that's rubbish because it, I
8:17
think about a number of reasons. One, as a woman, as a feminist,
8:21
I don't have to be on every single woman's side ever.
8:24
They probably know more than we do on the situation.
8:27
It doesn't mean, I mean, I don't know who's right and who's wrong
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and I all be wrong. Who knows.
8:32
But the point is, is you are allowed to have an opinion on
8:35
another woman. You don't have to be friends
8:36
with every single woman because you're a feminist.
8:39
And I feel like calling her out on it, is that not like they're
8:45
setting more rules to being a feminist?
8:47
You, you can only be a feminist if you like every woman in the
8:50
world. Well, are you?
8:51
There's plenty of women I don't like and I am a feminist, so
8:54
does that make me a bad feminist?
8:56
It is it is exactly the point that Jameela Jamil made.
9:00
She's written a sub stuck on it, and she also did a couple of
9:02
Instagram posts on it. And it's exactly the point she
9:04
made was that you don't have to like every woman in the world.
9:06
You need to believe that women deserve equality and support.
9:10
She also referred to the way she talks to her friends as always
9:14
being supportive and the and the kind of thing that women have
9:17
where they will ride or die for each other.
9:19
So what she was doing was when her friend was hurting, she was
9:25
diving in. It's the same as, you know, when
9:27
there's a break up and then you're like, oh, well, he was
9:29
awful. I always hated him.
9:31
And then they get back together and you're like, because you're
9:34
being supportive because they hate each other now.
9:37
So Jameela De Mille's suggestion was that that's an I actually
9:40
what? I'm not going to.
9:42
Troll. Back through every text message
9:43
I've ever written. But I'm pretty sure that if one
9:45
of my friends sent me a text message saying she absolutely
9:49
hated someone and she was really, really, really stitching
9:51
her up, I am fairly sure that I would leap in and go, yes,
9:56
that's awful. And that, yeah, that doesn't
9:58
make you a fake for minister. You might not even.
10:01
It doesn't even have to be. Opinion.
10:02
I don't think you need to know all the details about these
10:05
things. If your friend comes to you and
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says she's upset, I feel like you agree, right?
10:10
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the difference here,
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obviously she knows the people involved.
10:16
We don't, but it's us, not you. And I asked the public that are
10:22
making this assumption and accusation against us.
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So it's a this is going to be a theme I think throughout today's
10:28
podcast of people sitting at home having an opinion.
10:33
Funny enough, so do we, but kind of and then going for it and but
10:38
I mean, there's it's all right to have an opinion.
10:39
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but kind of
10:42
going in on somebody online publicly when you don't know
10:46
them, you don't know the situation, you don't have all
10:49
the details, you don't know, you know what's true and what's not
10:52
true. Just seems, well, systematic of
10:55
what the world is like at the moment.
10:57
And I think everyone needs to just calm down a bit.
11:01
You feel like you should. It's, it's easy to say, oh,
11:04
well, you should never say things in private that you
11:06
wouldn't want somebody to hear. But it's not how the world
11:11
works, right? You want to, there will always
11:14
be things that you need to get off your chest and things that
11:17
you need to kind of kind of work out.
11:19
And sometimes you need to vent and do that blow off steam kind
11:22
of thing. And I don't think that
11:24
necessarily means that all of your morals is that the word I'm
11:29
looking for? All of your morals and all of
11:31
your beliefs are just instantly thrown aside because you said
11:36
one off kilter thing when you were angry.
11:38
We all know that, you know, people say things when they're
11:40
angry that they don't necessarily mean.
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And even if they do mean them, they might not have said them in
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that way because they do care about other people.
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Yeah, I think, I think it's dangerous territory.
11:51
And this is one of those things. I mean, this has happened a few
11:53
times, hasn't it? As well?
11:54
There was crikey, don't want to get into Amber Heard and Johnny
11:57
Depp again. But there was a thing in there
11:59
where some text messages Johnny Depp had sent to a friend, which
12:04
were quite horrendous in tone when you heard them, were read
12:09
out in court. But again, those things are
12:14
letting off steam. That's how it always came across
12:17
to me, was that it was letting off steam in a in a bad
12:20
situation. But again, yeah, we don't, we
12:22
don't know all these people and we're purely speculating.
12:24
But I think sometimes you need to to think, have I ever done
12:28
that? Would I ever do that?
12:29
Would you be? Happy if the content of all of
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your. Texts and Whatsapps were were
12:36
suddenly suddenly released in court.
12:39
Are you entirely confident that you're not living in a glass
12:41
house? Yeah, exactly.
12:44
And I think there's also something about the rules that
12:49
people are supposed to follow. So, for example, if you're a
12:51
feminist in this case, you know, the rule is according to all the
12:57
people that are complaining is that you have to support every
13:00
woman. But, but I think it's really
13:03
hard when you're trying, well, when you are online to get it
13:08
right all the time according to the rules.
13:11
I'm saying rules in inverted commas, which you can't see if
13:14
you're listening to this because it's like who defies the rules
13:16
anyway? So I think, I mean, I, for
13:19
example, on my wedding page on all my accounts, to be fair, all
13:24
my businesses and stuff, but you know, I, but on the wedding
13:26
page, I try to be as inclusive as I possibly can.
13:31
And there will be times where I get it wrong or I'll say
13:34
something wrong or I'll type too quickly and it'll say it wrong.
13:37
Nothing offensive, but just not inclusive enough.
13:41
And then there's a massive backlash towards me.
13:43
And it's like A, you can make a mistake and B, I'm trying, I am
13:50
an inclusive person. I want to be inclusive.
13:52
And if I do one thing that's not quite right, it's the pile on.
13:55
I think it's a bit like in this scenario, she has done so much
14:01
around body image, body positivity with her eye way
14:06
campaign and and staff and she talks about lots of things are
14:10
incredibly feminist and incredibly female centered.
14:14
Then does one thing where she supports the man and not the
14:16
woman. And it's like, you failed
14:19
you're, you're a terrible, you've let us down.
14:22
And it's like, well, we are three-dimensional people.
14:25
There are there's nuance in the how we behave, and I think
14:28
people tend to forget that. I think, I think it's important
14:32
as well is that she wasn't necessarily supporting the man
14:35
in this situation. What she was supporting her
14:37
girlfriend, her friend, female friend who was Justin Baldoni's
14:42
publicist. But I agree, I agree with you
14:45
absolutely. This is a thing that stops,
14:47
stops people trying to do anything at all.
14:49
If you know that you are very, very vocal and trying to make a
14:53
change and make a difference. And then if you then make a
14:57
misstep, it's like everybody's looking for you to make a
14:59
misstep and then they're going to pile on you.
15:00
And I, I, I see that a lot and it makes it, it makes it hard
15:05
for people to speak out and say the things that they want to
15:07
say. And I always, I always try and
15:10
be kind of my accounts are like fairly, fairly honest.
15:12
And if I want to say it, I'll come out and say it.
15:14
But there's always that kind of fear that you're fear that
15:19
you're going to do it wrong. And it does make me upset
15:22
because that, that thing about women having to support all
15:25
other women. It's quite often.
15:26
And this is going to kind of step on the next topic, but it's
15:29
all right. You know, it's women that are
15:31
quite often doing the pile on as well.
15:33
It's not in this instance, it's not men coming out and saying,
15:37
oh, you're a terrible feminist, Jamila Jamil, because I mean,
15:40
they don't care. It's other women who were saying
15:44
it and then and then knocking that down.
15:45
And I, I just always wonder, I mean, maybe it's just because I
15:48
have very limited energy to get involved in these things.
15:51
Maybe these people have infinite energy and the energy they're
15:55
using in getting online and telling Jamila Jamil she's a
15:57
fake feminist and writing articles.
15:59
Maybe they're also doing 10 times that to smash the
16:03
patriarchy. But probably, you know, my
16:06
limited energy suggests that if I had to pick one, I know what I
16:11
think my energy would be better directed in other directions
16:16
rather than desperately looking for people online who've said
16:19
something that might just like a tiny bit not agree with me.
16:24
Yeah, and that goes back to what we were talking about last week
16:26
on the podcast around Should celebrities be political?
16:30
Well, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
16:33
So it's a bit similar. So she, you know, her entire, I
16:36
mean, she's an actress, first of all, you know, like she makes
16:38
money by acting. But on her socials, there's a
16:42
lot, as I said, about feminism and women's rights and body
16:45
positivity and all those things. So, you know, like she puts so
16:49
much energy in and I think of her as that woman.
16:52
And then to and then tear her down for doing one thing that
16:54
you don't agree with. It's almost like we need to.
16:58
She's damned as she does damned as she doesn't.
16:59
You know, it's it's that sort of saying thought that same thing.
17:03
And it's just. Yeah.
17:04
And also with all of these things you just bought, you
17:08
know, deaf and heard, for example, and there's been count
17:10
as other things. It's like we don't know what
17:14
happened, like none of us know because we were not there.
17:18
In fact, the only people that knows are the two people that
17:21
are suing each other or whatever ultimately, because even the
17:25
friends of them only probably hear their side or what it like
17:28
you just don't know. So for us to sit at home and
17:31
make judgement, I just. Feel it's hard not to.
17:35
And I mean, I do think there is a point where if you, it's not
17:40
that you should give people a free pass if they've done bad
17:43
things. I don't think it's, you know, if
17:44
people, I think if you're trying to be inclusive and you say
17:47
something which may not be inclusive, it's fine to maybe
17:51
call someone out on that to, to bring that up to mention that
17:54
maybe that's not the best way. But I think that that's very
17:56
different to the kind of pylon we see quite often.
17:59
Yeah. In these situations where
18:01
there's almost a Glee to it, where people are just so happy
18:04
that they've got yes, yes, we finally found a flaw in this
18:08
woman. Yes, let's bring her down.
18:10
It's really like that, isn't it? It's like they've been waiting,
18:14
waiting for that one moment where they can absolutely, you
18:18
know, come in there. And while, I mean, I again, I
18:21
don't know her, she's probably got quite thick skin, but it's
18:24
still stuff she then has to deal with where she could be doing
18:28
something else like working, for example, as she's doing her job
18:33
or doing some positive stuff. So it's kind of like, whilst it
18:36
might not affect her. And I think that's the thing,
18:38
people I think that say these things don't realize that it
18:41
does affect people. I think they think, oh, you
18:43
know, they're a celebrity or whatever.
18:46
They don't have, you know, they don't care.
18:48
But actually, it does take them away and takes their brain away
18:52
from, you know, doing the day. Job or whatever, Absolutely.
18:57
At the end of the day, we're all just people doing the very best
19:01
we can. Something that caught my art
19:11
recently was an article about Amber Davis and about how she
19:17
was heavily trolled during her stint on Strictly and her
19:23
comment around that nearly all of the trolling came from older
19:29
women. So for anyone that doesn't know
19:31
who Amber Davis is, she was a contestant on the last series of
19:36
Strictly. She was previously been in Love
19:39
Island, but she's actually in musical theatre, so she's in
19:41
that. I think she's about to start
19:42
Legally Blonde now in London and she's done other things over the
19:47
years. She was a last minute booking.
19:49
So one of the celebrities left I think with about a week to go
19:54
before the live shows. So Amber stepped in.
19:57
And The thing is is Amber has. The ability to dance because she
20:02
dances on stage. So the world stroke.
20:05
All the people that complain about people on Strictly Come
20:08
Dancing were complaining because she had previous experience and
20:13
they piled in on her straight away before she'd even stepped
20:17
foot on the ballroom floor. She was sort of vilified in the
20:22
press. It's interesting that there was
20:25
also another man, and his name escapes me, who also had
20:29
previous dance experience, who was in Billy Elliott, but nobody
20:32
complained about him. Nobody had a problem with him.
20:35
It was just Amber. And it carried on all the way
20:38
through the show. She was deemed to be smug where,
20:42
you know, you could just say she was just really professional
20:45
because she, she worked really hard.
20:48
She was too ambitious. Why was she there?
20:51
You know, she was, what was she going to get out of it?
20:53
But then everybody's there to get something out of it.
20:58
And they said she was cold. You know, just this really went
21:01
in on her and it did not stop. She got through to the final.
21:04
She didn't win, but actually she was really humble in the final.
21:10
She actually said, I don't want to win.
21:12
I've already won like I am. I have learned so much.
21:15
This has changed my life. But these two other people had
21:19
had no dance experience and they deserve to win.
21:21
So she was really, really humble.
21:23
But still everyone kept piling in on her.
21:25
And apparently all the people that were piling and her there's
21:29
a theme here was middle-aged and older women, which is gave me 0
21:36
surprises because you know what I see on a daily basis.
21:40
But I'd like to chat about what is it about women dissing, women
21:47
dissing, you know what I mean? Trolling women online and all
21:50
the women doing it to a young, beautiful, clever, ambitious,
21:57
successful, talented woman. What's wrong with us?
22:01
Us in adverted commas because I think she's fabulous.
22:05
I am. Well, I'm glad you cleared up
22:06
who Amber Davis was to start with because I had absolutely
22:10
zero clue. I, like, read a news article and
22:14
I could see that she was on Love Island and Strictly, and that
22:19
was about as far as it went. So I'm glad to know that she's
22:22
doing other things. Who?
22:23
She is, and I think she was an actress or was doing something
22:27
before Love Island. She probably went on Love Island
22:29
to just kind of progress her career.
22:32
She already had a career before that, but yeah, OK.
22:36
Well, yeah, yeah. Jealousy is always like the easy
22:40
thing to say, isn't it? Like, oh, they're jealous of a
22:43
young, beautiful, ambitious woman?
22:45
I mean, is it, is it that kind of, it's kind of hard to say
22:51
that it's not, to be honest. Or is it just that women are
22:55
just so fed up of being judged all the time that they feel like
22:59
it's their turn to judge other people?
23:01
Do you think? Would you?
23:02
Do you think you're jealousy? Potentially I think that's the
23:05
thing people always say. And actually I'm around my
23:08
aunt's house filming this recording this this week and I
23:11
mentioned this is what we're talking about and she said
23:13
jealousy straight away. But like, I'm not jealous of, I
23:16
mean, I don't troll to be fair, let's just put that out there.
23:19
But I'm not like, I mean, I might be jealous of somebody my
23:23
own age doing something amazing potentially, but why would I be
23:27
jealous? I mean, I don't know how old she
23:28
is. Probably about 28.
23:30
I don't, I don't know, she might be older.
23:32
I don't think she is. Why?
23:34
Why? And also she's a dancer.
23:36
I'm not a dancer, so I'm not jealous on that.
23:39
She can sing. I Can't Sing.
23:41
She's like, it's like not in my in the realm of somebody I would
23:46
be jealous of. Do you know what I mean?
23:48
Because she's like, yeah, you and Amber Davies are not in
23:53
direct competition. I wonder how much it's
23:59
unhappiness and not jealousy. So because, I mean, it's worth
24:02
saying I get trolled a lot. And it's always by women.
24:06
Everyone presumes it's men. Never.
24:09
Well, actually, occasionally, maybe about 3% is men.
24:13
Generally, they think they're being funny by what they're
24:15
saying. But the actual nastiness is
24:18
always women. And I wonder if it's a bit of
24:22
boredom and unhappiness with their own lives.
24:27
So I don't think they want to be Amber Davis or me in my
24:32
scenario. I think they're just so
24:34
frustrated that they need to take it out on somebody.
24:39
But I don't think it's the right thing to do, obviously.
24:43
Jealousy is one of those words that gets thrown at women a lot
24:45
as well. Isn't it like bitter?
24:47
And what's the word? I completely forgot the word
24:51
now. But yeah, like, like bitter,
24:52
jealous, those kind of things are things that we that we
24:54
accuse women of. We very rarely accuse men of
24:57
being bitter and jealous. So I do think that these are
25:01
very gendered kind of insults that we that we throw at people
25:04
who are kind of trolling online. But I do know what you mean.
25:07
It's a are are these are these women who see she's saying it's
25:12
older women. Is it something that they're
25:14
seeing people who had opportunities that they that
25:17
they never have? And and and and it and it is
25:20
unhappiness. But then it's but why?
25:23
Why then do you feel the need to bring that out online?
25:25
Why aren't you? Why aren't you happy that that a
25:29
generation is getting opportunities that you never
25:33
had? It just seems really odd to me.
25:37
I think there's also a layer of internalize misogyny because we
25:42
have all grown up being told or it being inferred around us.
25:48
Ambitious women, you know, should, should shouldn't be a
25:51
thing, you know, get back in your place.
25:54
And of course, it's easy for me to think, well, why would other
25:56
women say that? But when you've been told that
26:01
your entire life, you have internalized it and you have
26:05
become that thing yourself, you know, you, you, you have those
26:09
views and you probably don't even realize you have those
26:12
views. But we all have internalized
26:14
misogyny in us. All of us.
26:15
Do we all because it's what we have seen since we were, you
26:19
know, started looking at the television, for example, which
26:22
is like when we were two. So, you know, we've got it all
26:25
inside us. But I think to be able to then
26:30
put it, get it out there into the world and type it, you feel
26:34
like you've got to be really unhappy or insecure or
26:38
frustrated. There's got to be something.
26:40
I don't think it's like I wish I was her.
26:42
I think it's more about, you know, as you said, she's got the
26:46
opportunities or she looks happy or she's success successful or
26:50
she's, you know, she's doing the thing I wanted to do or I don't
26:53
know. But if we if we flip the.
26:56
Ground imagine it was men making those comments.
27:03
What, what reason would you think that they were doing it?
27:06
Because they don't like ambitious, successful women.
27:09
So, yeah. So I think that's quite
27:11
interesting to do because if we slip it, flip it around like
27:14
that and say if it was men doing it, we wouldn't accuse them of
27:17
being jealous. We wouldn't accuse them of being
27:19
bitter. We wouldn't accuse them of being
27:21
unhappy necessarily. We would, We would accuse men
27:24
doing it of just not liking liking successful and ambitious
27:28
women. That I guess that's the
27:31
internalized misogyny thing. If you then put that back over
27:33
onto maybe women don't like ambitious successful women
27:36
either. I mean, maybe maybe that is the
27:38
age, maybe it's a generational thing.
27:40
Maybe there are more older women that don't like ambitious
27:45
successful women than there are younger women that don't like
27:50
ambitious successful. Women just because, just
27:52
because, just because we're. Fine with ambitious, successful
27:54
women most of the time, probably get back to, I'm sure it's one
27:59
of those things where we'll be like if, if we do say something
28:01
horrible against ambitious, successful women in our heads,
28:04
that will be justified. So presumably these people do
28:06
think it's justified what they're saying.
28:09
I think they do. I don't think nobody says I'm
28:12
sorry, but she seems really smug.
28:15
They just say she seems really smart.
28:17
No, in fact, not even seen she's really smug.
28:20
So I think they probably think it's totally OK and justified.
28:26
They're not apologetic for it. Interestingly, about you said
28:29
about the younger women, I wonder if they are.
28:32
I suppose we're not going to know that if it's just all the
28:36
women that are particularly trolling, does that mean they're
28:39
all eventually, we're all eventually going to die out and
28:41
the world will be a troll free place?
28:44
I wonder or is there just something about hitting fifty or
28:48
I'm using 50 as the benchmark here because of my age.
28:52
But you know, and you know, it's it's a tough time.
28:56
You've got menopause, you've got, you know, kids stuff,
28:59
husband stuff. Well, you know, like everything
29:01
piling up. And then you see this like
29:04
Skippity woman doing really well on television, dancing
29:07
amazingly. And we're like, I mean.
29:11
It could just be, it could just be that that's the audience for
29:14
Strictly Come Dancing. Of course, just suddenly, just
29:17
suddenly occurred to me that like the audience for Strictly
29:21
Come Dancing isn't like 18 year olds, is it?
29:24
And it's not, and it's not straight white men either.
29:28
There is a very specific audience for the sparkliness of
29:31
Strictly Come Dancing and therefore any kind of pushback
29:35
online or comments are going to come from its audience.
29:37
So it's going to be, it's going to be kind of middle-aged,
29:41
middle-aged women because the 18 year olds aren't watching it.
29:44
They've got exciting lives to live, I imagine.
29:47
Yeah. And I think strictly is just one
29:49
example. I mean, obviously trolling is
29:52
happening everywhere, of women in throws everywhere.
29:54
But maybe we're just the ones watching television.
29:56
Maybe that's what it is. So you know, we are spending
29:59
two. I mean, like your troll, your
30:01
trolls, for instance, would be, it would be more likely to be
30:04
your audience. So it would be, yeah, midlife
30:08
women that would be that would be trolling you.
30:10
I mean, it would be very rare for a bloke to pop up because
30:13
he's your content isn't going to kind of pop up on his feet
30:16
probably most of the time. I mean, I have, I think it is
30:20
mostly women that I've had when they've been trolling me about
30:22
anything where I've where I've mentioned my age, which is the
30:26
one that the one that always comes up.
30:27
But when I've talked about, I have unbelievably been trolled
30:32
on posts about cancer. Good God.
30:35
And that was men. The one particularly that sticks
30:37
out in my head is the one that told me that it wouldn't have
30:40
happened if I hadn't been so fat, which was which was which
30:43
was beautiful. So again, maybe those kind of
30:46
posts will reach a wide audience and maybe that's when the when
30:49
the trolling men turn up. Maybe it.
30:51
But yeah, maybe it is literally the audience.
30:55
And I can't help but we're going back to the end of forgetting
30:58
that the people that you see online, how are human beings
31:01
Again? I feel like we've got, we do
31:03
actually have some very common threads, I think running through
31:06
all three topics today and yet forgetting that you're speaking
31:10
to a human being when you start picking on people online rather
31:13
than you're not, you're not critiquing an artwork.
31:16
You are speaking to a living, breathing human being.
31:19
Is the important? Is it just such an important?
31:23
Thing to remember. At all times, at all point in
31:25
your life. And she she went online and was
31:28
in the press at the time saying, you know, talking about it
31:32
because she found it really hard.
31:33
And her dance partner talked openly and at the final he was
31:37
talking about how much hate she had got and it was unnecessary.
31:42
And as I said, they guy that could also dance, I can't
31:45
remember his name Lewis. I think he he didn't get
31:50
anything and if any comment was about him it would be like Oh
31:53
well he has had previous experience which is a fact.
31:56
But he wasn't smug or overly ambitious or cold or all these
32:01
things. And it's remembering, as you
32:03
said, that she's a human being, but she's also a young human
32:06
being. And that doesn't mean, you know,
32:08
you could be nasty to older people but not young people.
32:11
But the point was she's not equipped, as, you know, to deal
32:16
with it all as well, you know, life experience to actually deal
32:20
with it. And she thinks I'm coming on a
32:21
dance show. I'm going to learn a new dance
32:24
every week. I'm going to get paid for it.
32:26
Yes, it might help my career. And in fact, I think she got the
32:29
Legally Blonde thing, you know, so, and it will have helped her
32:31
career. But that's OK because you are
32:33
allowed to do things that help your career.
32:34
She's thinking, I'm going to do all this.
32:36
It's going to be really fun. I'm going to meet some new
32:38
people. And then she's bombarded and
32:40
it's like, she's not equipped. She's like, whoa, I think again,
32:44
because she was in Love Island, I think there's an air of she's
32:47
fair game. They're fair game.
32:49
And it's like, no, they are just, you know, young people
32:53
going on a show. And you might say, Oh my God,
32:55
I'd never go on that show ever in a million years.
32:59
But you know, they are allowed to without abuse about what they
33:03
look like, how they behave, how to speak.
33:06
It's like, oh, it's just too much.
33:08
Yeah, and we're watching it as well.
33:12
You can't just go, oh, I would never go on a show like that
33:14
because it's just awful and so cringe.
33:16
And when when you're sitting at home glued to it on a Saturday
33:19
night. So I've got a question for you.
33:22
How can we be part of changing the narrative or changing
33:28
behaviors? Because one of the things I do,
33:31
although I do get told off for it, is I often call it out.
33:35
I have the first nasty trolley comment I get.
33:39
I pin it to the top of the comments.
33:42
They get the pin of shame and it really upsets them.
33:45
But I'm a bit like, no, if you're, if you, you know, going
33:48
to stand behind this comment, I want everybody to see it.
33:52
It's not going to get. And then I'm like, but then
33:54
people write to me and saying, you're calling them out, you're
33:56
giving them airtime. That's what they want.
33:58
And it's like, Oh yeah, maybe maybe you're right.
34:00
But then again, I I don't think you should be able to say
34:04
something really nasty and get away with it.
34:07
I think that's wrong and they shouldn't get away with it.
34:10
So how do we stop it and how do we deal with it?
34:15
OK, let's just let's just fix that in the last one minute
34:18
we've got for this topic. Let's.
34:21
Try, well, I mean, I always, I always try and kind of I guess.
34:29
Just be a lived. Example, I guess, Joe, I mean, I
34:32
don't don't say nasty things to people unless they are
34:37
specifically asking for nasty things to be said, frankly,
34:40
which normally means that they've said something nasty to
34:42
me first. But I will.
34:44
I do not go back on that and then say, you know, a lot of
34:47
people will do that thing where they'll call people out for
34:49
calling someone ugly and they'll go and find their profile
34:51
picture and go, yeah, well, look the hell at you.
34:53
Yeah. I try not to do that.
34:55
It's so, so tempting. Just as I said that, I thought,
34:59
oh God, did I do that to one of the blokes?
35:00
That was mean about me. But.
35:04
A lot there are people out there they make content out of, you
35:08
know, the, these are the faces of the people that said the
35:11
things. And it makes great content,
35:13
don't get me wrong. And it does really, really good
35:15
engagement has gets really good engagement.
35:16
And when I first saw one, I thought I could do that.
35:20
But then I was like, yeah, but you're judging them for their
35:22
appearance, having them judge you for your appearance.
35:25
And that just is a bit icky to me.
35:27
It's so tempting, but yeah, I, I mean, I really, I really think
35:31
that. I don't think, I don't know what
35:33
direct action I feel like we can take to stop doing this.
35:36
But calling it out, maybe. But just try and remember,
35:40
remind people that we're all humans at the end of the day.
35:43
Your humanity. I sometimes write back, you
35:48
know, sometimes I go, thank you very much for your feedback.
35:51
Like I'm in a call center and sometimes I go, oh, that's so
35:54
nice. It's really made my day.
35:55
Thanks. And it's almost like I come up
35:57
that they want me to fight or get upset.
36:00
So I kind of come at them with kind of kindness.
36:02
I do a bit of that, but I'm also trying really hard to just block
36:06
them and delete them because it's like, I don't need this.
36:10
And, you know, you don't need to come and tell me my roots look
36:13
terrible and I look haggard. Like, I mean, apart from ending
36:17
up, I can sing. My roots need doing and I look a
36:18
bit haggard. You don't need to tell me you're
36:20
just being mean. Like go away and I'm getting
36:23
trying to get back to it that but I don't think that stops it.
36:26
That just helps us deal with it, doesn't it?
36:28
Yeah, that does. Yeah.
36:30
As I mean, I have tried that, you know, responding to comments
36:33
with a why did you feel the need to say this kind of thing that
36:36
most of the time it always always just ended up with people
36:39
coming back to me go because you're giving fuck, you know,
36:41
like they just kind of double down on it if they come back.
36:44
So again, I don't think that's that's much point.
36:47
I think there's always going to be people that want that want to
36:52
argue. And I think really all we can do
36:54
is discourage it. Obviously try and be an example
36:59
and kind of try and make sure people have the tools to deal
37:03
with it. Block, delete, just do it
37:06
straight off. Who cares?
37:07
Your space? I need to be better at that, I
37:10
have to say, but I also like Back to Amber.
37:14
Fair play for writing an article about these women and what they
37:18
said and how it made her feel. And I think calling them out,
37:22
not personally, but calling them out, I think it doesn't, it does
37:26
need to be discussed. We do need to talk.
37:28
We do need celebrities or people in the public space talking
37:31
about the way we are treated. And again, bringing it back to
37:37
gender, it's it's always women that receive it as well as give
37:41
it. So again, you know, as I said,
37:43
the guy on the show didn't get anything.
37:45
So yeah, be kind. And people guess, be kind.
37:49
And maybe that is the way we can do it.
37:50
Maybe if we speak out and say how it makes us feel when we
37:53
receive it, maybe if we hear more from the victims of
37:55
trolling, maybe that will be the thing that will finally make
37:58
everyone realise we're all human.
38:00
Except the answer will be, well, you put yourself online, you put
38:03
yourself on television. So yeah, well, we could talk
38:07
about this forever and I, I'm sure we'll come back to it.
38:10
So let's leave it there. So this last topic is the one
38:26
that's been the big topic of the week.
38:28
Obviously we couldn't really do a show where we say, we talk
38:31
about the things that everybody's talking about
38:32
without mentioning what's been going on in America in January.
38:36
So obviously there has been in we we mentioned it the other
38:42
week, didn't we Minneapolis, the protests in Minneapolis against
38:47
ICE who have been on the ground taking what they say are illegal
38:53
immigrants. Other people say they aren't.
38:55
I don't I'm not even speaking. One of them was a 5 year old.
38:58
But that's not the topic we're going to talk about here today
39:00
because that is way too big a topic be covering on a 15 minute
39:06
segment on a podcast. What I'm going to talk about
39:09
today is a specific thing that's come up where the women are now
39:16
essentially being blamed for these protests, and not only
39:18
blamed for their protests, but being blamed for their own
39:23
deaths. In the case of Renee Goode, Fox
39:25
News ran a commentary piece where they said that essentially
39:32
the point of it is they were saying that these protesters
39:34
aren't protesters. They are.
39:37
I think Fox News obviously has a very specific angle on these
39:42
things. Said that the harassing agents
39:44
going about their lawful duty is a crime and that it that was
39:49
what got Renee Good killed. And he referred to the people
39:53
that were doing this, and Renee Good in particular, as organized
39:57
gangs of wine moms. Which is the phrase that has now
40:02
been being used as a kind of rallying cry all around all
40:06
around social media. So that's that's been quite good
40:08
fun. So they were using anti far
40:11
tactics to harass ICE, which is interesting because obviously
40:14
anti far is shorthand for anti fascist, but there we go.
40:18
But there is a very specific thing about using the frag
40:21
organise gangs, wine moms. It plays into that idea that
40:25
they. These these these.
40:27
Middle class liberal moms who need a glass of wine to get over
40:31
the stresses of their absolutely not stressful day in the
40:33
evening. And it's been brought up
40:35
elsewhere. There's been a new acronym
40:36
that's been going around, I don't know if you've heard this
40:38
Cape, but awful, awful means affluent, white, female, urban
40:43
liberal. And that's been going around on
40:45
socials and awful women are the ones that are responsible for
40:51
all of this. And I see someone else saying
40:53
that I think, I think it was a comedian, maybe.
40:56
I can't remember. I couldn't find the quote when I
40:58
went back to look for it. But essentially saying that
41:01
these are affluent, white, middle class women who have no
41:04
problems of their own and so feel the need to get involved in
41:08
other people's problems. Now this plays back into a long
41:11
history of essentially blaming mothers when they step outside
41:14
their their kind of allotted roles.
41:16
Mothers are selfless and gentle and soft, but when that
41:21
selflessness extends outside of their families or that that
41:26
defense, that suddenly becomes a societal issue.
41:31
Gosh, this is such a big topic, I feel so I really want to do it
41:35
justice, but I, I absolutely know I probably won't.
41:40
But there we go, women notice things that are going on in
41:43
their neighborhoods and quite often they're the first ones to
41:46
step up. And throughout history there's,
41:49
I think there was in the 80s, it was Mothers Against Drunk
41:52
Driving, I think that got laws brought in about that.
41:55
So like seatbelts, drunk driving laws, there's been all sorts of
41:58
things. And it's the kind of thing that
41:59
also gets and I wear that I'm rambling now.
42:03
I mean, even on The Simpsons, there's that weren't somebody
42:05
think of the children. And then Marge Simpson was
42:08
involved in that, that that kind of mothers against that she was
42:11
getting censorship essentially, but then at the end realized the
42:13
error of her ways. Do you think women are unfairly
42:18
blamed for causing this trouble? Or do you think it's a do you
42:22
think it's a justified blame? And do you think there's any
42:24
blame there in the 1st? Place.
42:27
Well, that was 3 questions. I think first of all, my first I
42:32
spoke for 5 minutes. No, take your time.
42:34
My first thought when I heard all of this was right.
42:38
So it's the women's fault, you know, yet again, we are to
42:43
blame. I think that was my first
42:45
thought, but then that sort of led to, well, if you actually
42:49
want to get something done, ask a bunch of women because we are
42:52
organized and efficient and we get stuff done.
42:56
So there was part of me that was like, well, actually if we are
42:58
to blame, that's kind of be partly, partly why I then
43:02
thought actually it's what led me to think about protests in
43:07
the past. So actually the protesting, so
43:09
not the blame bit or the organizing bit, but about how I
43:14
feel in our country. So this is not talking about
43:17
America, I'm talking about UK In the 90s we went and we
43:21
protested. It was definitely a thing.
43:24
I protested. I was at the anti poll tax
43:26
demonstrations and I demonstrated for CND and anti
43:30
apartheid. Like I spent a lot of the noise
43:32
doing that. Lots of people did that in the
43:34
70s, you know, like, but now we seem to have lost that, like
43:40
let's take to the streets and do, you know, make a change And
43:43
how we, I feel like people now just moan on Facebook rather
43:48
than kind of taking to the streets to make things happen.
43:51
So it kind of led me on to think about that.
43:52
So rather than like who is to blame?
43:54
I mean, I think who is to blame is a rhetoric coming out of the
43:59
media that they need somebody to blame.
44:01
Don't need anyone to blame. People are really, really pissed
44:04
off and have had enough and are out saying stop.
44:08
I mean, it doesn't need an organizer.
44:10
Whether it's a white liberal woman mum with a glass of wine
44:14
or not, like not relevant. I feel like even if there were
44:17
no white liberal mums with glasses of wine, they still
44:21
would have taken to the streets. So I think they're looking for
44:23
someone to blame. And who's the easiest person to
44:25
blame? Women mums.
44:27
Because, you know, we're, as you said, we're supposed to be all
44:29
like, oh, at home, you know, with a bottle, baby bottle, not
44:32
the wine bottle, you know, being all gentle and sweet.
44:35
And we're not allowed to have an opinion.
44:37
We're not allowed to be political.
44:39
We're not allowed to be, as we just discussed, ambitious.
44:42
We're not allowed to do that. We don't have to do any of that.
44:44
We're supposed to be soft and feminine and all of that kind of
44:47
thing. So I think to answer your
44:49
question on women again, B, Women probably potentially did
44:54
because we get a lot of shit down.
44:55
C, Even if there weren't any women there, people would have
44:58
taken to the streets. I mean, it's that bad.
45:01
But also, why don't we take the streets anymore?
45:04
Why don't we just sit to be like the trolling thing?
45:06
We just sit behind our desk putting our opinion into Twitter
45:10
or whatever, whereas historically we've taken to the
45:14
streets. So yeah, maybe like, why?
45:17
Maybe we don't have enough awful women here to organize it.
45:22
I think that the kind of the demonization of the women
45:25
involved in this protest is very much goes back to that kind of
45:28
Republican ideal of womanhood as well, that there's this women
45:31
aren't supposed to be the ones taking the lead on this.
45:33
So that I think probably in the situation in America at the
45:37
moment, that probably a part of that is that the women involved
45:43
aren't, aren't performing womanhood in the way that
45:47
Republicans would like them to. So I think I think that that's
45:51
an issue. They're kind of like part of me
45:53
wants to talk about America a lot, but part of me is also very
45:55
aware that I am not in America and therefore my opinions on
46:02
these things. There is very little I can do
46:03
about any of this apart from just sit and watch it happen.
46:06
But I think we do take to the streets.
46:10
But there's been a. Very big push.
46:13
To try and stop that happening as much lately.
46:17
I mean, like all the the new laws that have been being bought
46:20
in about, about protesting and things like that.
46:23
And I think that's dangerous. I think we do, we do take to
46:27
social media to complain about these things.
46:28
I think we do that because it's a a form of communication we
46:34
didn't have in the 90s. So, yeah, obviously we didn't in
46:39
the 90s have this platform, we didn't have the social media
46:42
platform. We weren't able to use that as a
46:45
way of speaking out. So I do think it's a very, very,
46:47
very useful tool for making your opinions felt on things.
46:51
But it isn't the only tool. And there has been a lot of push
46:56
from authorities to try and cut down on in person protest, maybe
47:02
because it takes a lot of policing and it costs a lot of
47:04
money that there's, there's a con there in this country.
47:07
Even there was. And so when there were protests,
47:10
Black Lives Matter protests and that kind of thing.
47:13
And there's been a drive to paint the people involved in the
47:16
protests as disruptive rather than people with a valid
47:20
opinion. And when, when people actually
47:22
come out on the streets, they are painted as, as, as
47:27
disruptors. So maybe that's, maybe that's
47:30
part of it, why people are, are less keen to do this kind of
47:32
thing because there is a, there is a, there is a fear of, of
47:36
overly aggressive tactics to, to shut this kind of thing down.
47:40
But I do absolutely agree with you about the if you want
47:43
something done, get women to do it, though.
47:45
I think women, one of the things about the the organized gangs of
47:49
wine moms that I absolutely love is that like as like
47:53
linguistically, there's just like so much to unpack in there.
47:57
Organized, yes, women are organized and it's the wine
48:00
moms. It was there was something so
48:02
dismissive about the word wine moms.
48:05
Like I feel like wines being used to suggest that these women
48:09
are out of touch. They're not beer moms.
48:10
They're wine moms only, only posh out of touch people drink
48:15
wine, right? Like, so there was there was a
48:17
little bit of that. And that's how we were.
48:19
That's how we were referring to them.
48:20
So, yeah, linguistically, absolutely fascinating.
48:23
But the fact that these were organized gangs of wine moms,
48:25
Yeah, these moms are getting stuff done and they're bringing
48:28
wine. Like, to me, this this feels
48:30
like something I could, I could be part of mom or not.
48:33
I could definitely be part of this.
48:34
It is also worth noting that it wasn't so long ago that JD Vance
48:37
was saying it was childless cat ladies that were ruining the
48:40
country. So we're basically causing
48:43
trouble everywhere we go. Sorry, I'm just laughing and
48:49
obviously not at the situation, but the whole, yeah, the cat
48:52
lady thing as well. It's just like we can't win.
48:55
Like literally we have to be the one at fault.
48:58
But then I also think, you know, in this situation, ICE are
49:02
actively looking for anybody that is non white.
49:05
That's what they're doing. So, but actually probably, and
49:10
obviously I'm not there, the people organizing this could
49:13
potentially be the white people in the community.
49:16
And that's not a negative thing. That's actually just the way it
49:21
is right now because they feel safer, although ironically
49:26
they're not, but they might feel a bit safer.
49:30
So they're organizing and empowering.
49:33
But actually, as I said, I think everybody is taking to the
49:36
streets because they've had enough.
49:37
And you know, 2-3 people have been shot in January.
49:43
I mean, we're not even in February in one place in one
49:47
neighborhood. I mean, this is this is crazy
49:51
dangerous times and somebody had to organize it and it looks like
49:56
it was wine months. I think the wine is you're
49:58
right. It's so interesting because it's
50:00
being really snobby, Snooty towards a certain type of woman.
50:04
Isn't it on? They're drinking wine.
50:08
It's really not relevant what they're drinking.
50:10
They could be drinking a latte. It really doesn't matter, but
50:13
they've gone for the wine because it's like wine o'clock
50:16
and it's that kind of. Yeah, it's that kind of Yeah,
50:19
like Glickery live love, love kind of.
50:21
But you know what thought it if it gets stuffed up, I am, I am
50:28
proud of organized gangs of wine mums for standing up for what
50:33
they believe in and for standing up to vulnerable people in their
50:36
community. That's that's kind of how I
50:39
feel. Maybe that's that's what that's
50:41
what mums do. Mums look after vulnerable
50:42
people. And if the vulnerable people in
50:44
their community are being picked on by the big kids, they're
50:49
going to stand up for the vulnerable children.
50:51
And maybe that's what's happening here with the
50:52
organized gangs of wine mums in a larger sense, the bully,
50:56
they're standing up for their kids.
50:58
Bullies. Yeah.
51:00
And having I am a mum, not having been a mum, I am a mum.
51:03
And you know, when you see a kid or you hear of a kid in your
51:08
kids in your child's school or whatever, something bad happens
51:11
and you get like, right, let's sort this outlet's sort this out
51:15
collectively. You do get like that.
51:17
So actually, mainly this phrase why mums is is quite clever
51:21
really, Although what was the awful again?
51:23
What does it stand for? Affluent, white, female, urban,
51:26
liberal. So they couldn't get our W in
51:29
that for the wine or the West could have been, well anyway,
51:33
affluent. Wine thing.
51:34
You'll know that. They need somebody to play.
51:38
Ultimately, the system needs somebody to blame.
51:43
And of course, they'll blame the women.
51:46
I mean, what about the organized white men who are liberal and
51:51
may also like a glass of wine? They're probably there too.
51:54
Yeah. So, well, it's just, it's just.
51:57
Awful, awful, awful. Affluent, white, female, Arab
52:01
and liberals? No.
52:03
Words. Yeah, I it's, yeah, I'm proud
52:08
of. I'm proud of the organized moms.
52:10
I might be that you are the organized wine mom, but I'm not
52:15
even a childless cat lady. I'm a cloudless pug lady.
52:18
But the childless cat lady thing is just again, it's such a tired
52:24
old stereotype, an old, you know, like you'll be a childless
52:30
cat lady. Well, maybe I will or crazy,
52:33
maybe not childless. You're crazy cat lady, you know,
52:35
and it's, and I hear that, I hear this a lot in the kind of
52:38
midlife, you know, 650 sixty year old women being told, you
52:43
know, you have to stay with your husband otherwise you'll be a
52:46
child, you know, keep saying childless, not childless.
52:48
You'll be a crazy cat lady, lonely cat lady and all the
52:51
women I speak to say, well, great, I'll be happy.
52:55
I'll have my own space, I'll have my cats.
52:58
And it could be, could be swapped out for pugs.
53:00
It doesn't matter. The point is, is it's used as a,
53:04
as a way to beat a stick at us. And it's like, well, actually,
53:08
I'm really happy just to be surrounded by cats.
53:11
Actually, I'm a dog person, dogs and I'll be perfectly happy.
53:14
What's your problem with that mate?
53:17
I I strongly suggest that you go and have a have a Google of the
53:21
phrase organized gangs of wine moms because there are some,
53:25
there are some really good fun articles out there as well.
53:28
There was one which was supposed to be the minutes of the
53:30
neighborhood wine moms meeting in which they are discussing how
53:35
how red lipstick was used as a protest in the 1930s and 40s and
53:41
how which color they should use to make their teeth look whiter
53:44
should they happen to be caught on camera while they're at a
53:46
protest. Alongside, alongside, could they
53:50
get bulletproof backpacks for their for their children.
53:53
It's very amazing. I, I do recommend, I do
53:55
recommend that you look at that. Yeah.
53:57
So this is a fun one today. And yeah, we've only got limited
54:01
time to talk about it. So yeah, maybe we can just wrap
54:05
up by saying that being an organized wine mum or a
54:09
childless cat lady is not a bad thing.
54:11
It means that you are noticing injustices in your neighborhood
54:14
and you are standing up. For people who need standing up
54:17
for, what do you think? Yeah, Yeah.
54:20
I was just going to say agree. And I just hope things start to
54:23
change. I mean, I hope things start to
54:26
change a lot in the world. I often think this, in fact,
54:29
every day when I see the news, I think things need to change.
54:33
But if if some of the pushback is from these women, good for
54:39
them, good for them. Thank you for joining us for
54:42
another roundup of midlife chat, hot takes and occasional
54:46
moaning. Well, quite a bit of moaning.
54:48
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