Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 393: Andor: Season One - Announcement

Transcript

Issue 393: Andor: Season One - Announcement · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned Palty.
0:06
Speaker 2: Hi.
0:06
Speaker 3: This is Nick Anstasu, story editor on Star Wars, The
0:10
Speaker 3: Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you are
0:14
Speaker 3: listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
0:23
Speaker 4: It's another beautiful beachside day here on Aggressive Negotiations, the
0:27
Speaker 4: Star Wars podcast that explores everywhere in the Star Wars universe,
0:32
Speaker 4: uncovering that which must be uncovered, like grains of sand
0:36
Speaker 4: on a beach. We are examining all of the facets
0:40
Speaker 4: that are often overlooked and passed by by other viewers
0:44
Speaker 4: and podcasts. I am one of your hosts, Jedi Master
0:48
Speaker 4: John Mills. Joining me on this luxurious podcast is Jedi
0:53
Speaker 4: Master Matthew Rushing. Matt, do you have your sunscreen ready?
0:57
Speaker 4: As you get a drink served you by what looks
1:01
Speaker 4: like in ant eater giggling on the sandy shores of
1:06
Speaker 4: Amos Neamos Niamos.
1:09
Speaker 2: How do you pronounce this planet anyway? I'm not entirely sure.
1:13
Speaker 1: Hey, John, can you give me one of those like,
1:15
Speaker 1: uh yeah, one of the the you know, uh, the
1:19
Speaker 1: curly straw ones?
1:20
Speaker 2: Yeah? Uh no, No, I can't, because come on, man,
1:25
Speaker 2: it's the name of it.
1:25
Speaker 4: It's that it's a specific straw to this planet, and
1:28
Speaker 4: I can't. They won't serve it to me until I
1:30
Speaker 4: figure out how to pronounce the name of this planet.
1:31
Speaker 2: So that's where I need my Wow.
1:33
Speaker 1: Good luck with that, because I don't even know namos neomos. Yeah,
1:38
Speaker 1: it's but it's really nice here. Uh, you know, it's
1:41
Speaker 1: pretty Yeah, it kind of reminds me of that that
1:44
Speaker 1: planet and uh and Skeleton Crew. You know, this is
1:48
Speaker 1: the tropical planet, I guess, or the beach planet and
1:52
Speaker 1: you know the one Skeleton Crew we had the planet
1:55
Speaker 1: with the hot springs, you know, and the and the
1:57
Speaker 1: hot mud maths and stuff. So man, we're really we're
2:00
Speaker 1: really diving into some cool places here in Disney Star
2:04
Speaker 1: Wars or so we are going to be talking about
2:08
Speaker 1: and or a season one, episode seven announcement, and I'm
2:13
Speaker 1: really excited to be diving into this one. But before
2:16
Speaker 1: we do that, maybe you're like, how you know, I
2:20
Speaker 1: love these guys, They're great. I've been listening for a
2:22
Speaker 1: long time. What could I do something special for them? Well,
2:26
Speaker 1: start rating and review on an Apple podcasts would be
2:29
Speaker 1: extremely helpful. We even read those out on the show,
2:33
Speaker 1: and you can also rate things on Spotify. So maybe
2:37
Speaker 1: you're a Spotify listener and you listen to your podcast there,
2:40
Speaker 1: give us a rating there too, help people find us.
2:42
Speaker 1: But John, So this episode is interesting because as it starts,
2:48
Speaker 1: this kind of like next arc in some ways too,
2:51
Speaker 1: it's almost like a bridge because it's really about the
2:56
Speaker 1: fallout of this massive rebel attack, which seems to be
3:02
Speaker 1: one of the largest rebel attacks that has happened up
3:05
Speaker 1: unto this point. And in fact, the episode even called
3:08
Speaker 1: announcement in some ways is the sense of saying, Hey,
3:12
Speaker 1: we're truly here, We're not going away, And so I
3:16
Speaker 1: wanted to just start here because it has so much
3:21
Speaker 1: to do with everybody else's response to this, but it's
3:25
Speaker 1: the imperial response that kind of then drives everything else
3:30
Speaker 1: that we see really in this episode. And so what
3:34
Speaker 1: do you think and what did you think of what
3:37
Speaker 1: we see of the ISB response, you know, the way
3:42
Speaker 1: the emperor himself responds, and then even the internal you know,
3:48
Speaker 1: bickering that is now going back and forth inside the
3:50
Speaker 1: ISB because of all of this.
3:53
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, as I've said many many times during
3:57
Speaker 4: the history of this show, I am an absolutely nerd
4:00
Speaker 4: for bureaucratic, political machinations, and so the ISB stuff is
4:06
Speaker 4: right up my alley. That like, that type of stuff
4:09
Speaker 4: is a love letter to me. While everybody else was
4:11
Speaker 4: complaining about the Galactic Senate in episode one, I was
4:13
Speaker 4: the one sitting there saying, yeah, yeah, give me more.
4:16
Speaker 2: Who's filing emotion?
4:17
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, That's exactly how I would manipulate this situation.
4:21
Speaker 4: It's a benefit of growing up in the DC metro area.
4:23
Speaker 4: You're sort of steeped in this nonsense. I think it's great.
4:28
Speaker 4: I think that the ISB stuff is a wonderful way
4:32
Speaker 4: to start because it immediately gets in there. It starts
4:34
Speaker 4: off the arc, and I think it's a great way
4:38
Speaker 4: to start this conversation, specifically because I think you wind
4:42
Speaker 4: up having the exact type of conversation you would have
4:46
Speaker 4: talking about a George Lucas type of scenario or a
4:49
Speaker 4: story point, which is chicken and egg. The Empire is
4:54
Speaker 4: a bad thing. It's basically just a revamped version of
4:59
Speaker 4: the report public. The Republic had its problems. We saw
5:02
Speaker 4: that all the way at the beginning of this show.
5:04
Speaker 4: We've seen it in the other materials, and the Emperor
5:06
Speaker 4: really just said, okay, the machinery is in place, I'm
5:10
Speaker 4: just going to use it with ill intent because good,
5:14
Speaker 4: you know, no system is completely bad. It's the people
5:17
Speaker 4: in it that make it awful sort of thing. So well, okay,
5:21
Speaker 4: that's not true. There are bad systems anyway, you know
5:23
Speaker 4: what I'm trying to say. Anyway, I think that you
5:28
Speaker 4: wind up with that chicken and egg argument because you
5:31
Speaker 4: have Dedra recognizing and saying we are reacting exactly the
5:36
Speaker 4: way that is going to make the rebels popular for
5:38
Speaker 4: doing this. It's going to make people sympathize with them,
5:41
Speaker 4: and it echoes what is going to come in episode
5:44
Speaker 4: four with Princess Leah saying the more you tighten your
5:47
Speaker 4: grip Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
5:51
Speaker 4: It's this whole idea of how much response is too
5:54
Speaker 4: much response? And I think it's a very interesting one
5:57
Speaker 4: because you even obviously have an echo of the American
6:04
Speaker 4: response to something like nine to eleven. Now, obviously al
6:07
Speaker 4: Donnie's a heist. Nine to eleven is a different thing,
6:09
Speaker 4: But it's the question of proportion. Should you be enacting
6:14
Speaker 4: these sweeping changes to the laws, Should you be enacting
6:20
Speaker 4: these sweeping surveillance rules, should should you be reacting like
6:26
Speaker 4: this to what happened or are you actually making the
6:29
Speaker 4: situation worse? Yeah, and that's always a worthwhile type of
6:33
Speaker 4: discussion to have.
6:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think this is an interesting thing
6:37
Speaker 1: because the response here, because we get you Lauren here
6:41
Speaker 1: saying I've spoken to the emperor, and basically the Emperor said,
6:45
Speaker 1: we're bringing the hammer. We're treating this like everything's a
6:50
Speaker 1: nail and we're going to hit it with a hammer.
6:52
Speaker 1: We're going to hit it hard, and we're going to
6:53
Speaker 1: just crush it. And it makes me think, because you know,
6:57
Speaker 1: we haven't seen everything that's happened, and in these dark times,
7:01
Speaker 1: we don't know about all of the uprisings that have
7:04
Speaker 1: happened that the Empire has put down in the way
7:07
Speaker 1: that it's worked out. But I almost get the sense
7:10
Speaker 1: here that the Emperor has spent so much time seeing
7:17
Speaker 1: these nascent rebellions being able to be easily put down,
7:22
Speaker 1: he's miscalculated as to what this is. And because it
7:29
Speaker 1: seems I'm just guessing, but that previously, putting down the
7:35
Speaker 1: hammer has been the thing that can get rid of
7:39
Speaker 1: a rebellion. And yet by the misreading here of this situation,
7:45
Speaker 1: you know, like you mentioned, the only one who's reading
7:48
Speaker 1: this situation correctly is Dedra. She's the one who's been
7:53
Speaker 1: already placing these pieces together from this puzzle that she's
7:57
Speaker 1: been pulling from, and she's got enough of the picture
8:02
Speaker 1: to realize that, you know, this is exactly what the
8:05
Speaker 1: rebels want. This is this is this is the thing
8:08
Speaker 1: that they're going In fact, the response that we're getting
8:11
Speaker 1: is exactly what Lutheren says he wants because he wants
8:15
Speaker 1: the tight the titan grip so people flee or want
8:21
Speaker 1: to flee, and and so, yes, I agree with you.
8:24
Speaker 1: It's it just makes it so interesting because you know,
8:28
Speaker 1: the whole point of the show is is obviously to
8:31
Speaker 1: grow the character of and or to get him to
8:35
Speaker 1: the point we'd see him in Rogue one. But he's
8:38
Speaker 1: a he's the microcosm of the macro, right, and so
8:43
Speaker 1: the the experience is that he's going through, how he's
8:45
Speaker 1: dealing with all of these situations, and the growth that
8:49
Speaker 1: he's going to have is going to represent a lot
8:52
Speaker 1: of the growth that then the rest of the galaxy
8:55
Speaker 1: is experiencing, which you know, we see the way those
8:59
Speaker 1: parallels play out. By the end of the season too.
9:02
Speaker 1: So that's what makes all of this I think so
9:05
Speaker 1: fascinating because then as well, the other thing that stored
9:10
Speaker 1: out to me about the isb is it seems as
9:16
Speaker 1: though this backstabbing and this bickering and all this stuff
9:19
Speaker 1: has kind of been allowed to to kind of flourish there,
9:24
Speaker 1: and yet this director kind of puts the kebash on that.
9:31
Speaker 2: And you know, it's.
9:32
Speaker 1: Almost as like he's gotten tired of wrangling the children
9:36
Speaker 1: and he's ready for more adults to be here who
9:39
Speaker 1: are willing to take some risks, and the risk is
9:41
Speaker 1: something like Dedre who's willing to put in work and
9:46
Speaker 1: bring in actual interesting ideas.
9:48
Speaker 4: Then but see, I like that you, I like you
9:50
Speaker 4: brought up the director. But there are two things right.
9:54
Speaker 4: First off, to address the director directly, the actor is fantastic.
9:59
Speaker 2: In the role.
10:00
Speaker 4: I love him. I think he's wonderful. And the thing
10:03
Speaker 4: that's unsettling is he really is, in a lot of
10:06
Speaker 4: ways exactly the type of boss you want in any situation,
10:10
Speaker 4: because somebody will say something and you know, when the
10:14
Speaker 4: guy is challenging Dejra, he goes, do you think this
10:16
Speaker 4: is the form to bring it up in? I do sir, okay,
10:19
Speaker 4: give me your your data, and she and then she
10:22
Speaker 4: says something in defense, and he says thesis. And all
10:24
Speaker 4: he's doing is facilitating the discussion. Yeah, and then saying, okay,
10:30
Speaker 4: you have data. You know what, I'm going to take
10:33
Speaker 4: it away from you. I'm going to give it to her.
10:34
Speaker 4: This is nothing personal. They're deciding to take it personally. Yeah,
10:39
Speaker 4: he's just saying, okay, Well, that's actually an interesting thing.
10:42
Speaker 4: That's why I love when he looks at somebody and
10:43
Speaker 4: he says, thesis, tell me why you think that. Okay,
10:47
Speaker 4: I'm willing to listen. He's actually a really good boss
10:51
Speaker 4: from that perspective. He's in a terrible machine, but he's
10:54
Speaker 4: a great boss. But you mentioned Lutheran. I know this.
10:59
Speaker 4: Let's keep this part of the conversation going because they're like,
11:03
Speaker 4: I've been very guilty in the show so far of
11:06
Speaker 4: descending into particulars about whether I like the pacing, whether
11:11
Speaker 4: my dreams of finally opening with a real deep dive
11:14
Speaker 4: on Cyril's life is fulfilled in this episode or not.
11:18
Speaker 2: But I think that.
11:21
Speaker 4: The really worthwhile thread to pull at is being longtime
11:27
Speaker 4: Star Wars fans. There's always the sort of question about
11:31
Speaker 4: Saugerere's partisans.
11:33
Speaker 2: They're terrible. They do these awful things. We've seen them
11:36
Speaker 2: in action.
11:37
Speaker 4: They strike hard, and they make the empire clamp down
11:41
Speaker 4: even harder.
11:43
Speaker 2: But that's what Luthen wants to.
11:46
Speaker 4: So are we in a situation like are we set
11:51
Speaker 4: to by default sympathize with man Mathma's reaction to what
11:59
Speaker 4: has happened to say no, let me keep doing this Luthan,
12:04
Speaker 4: I think is revealed in this episode of putting the
12:08
Speaker 4: question in front of us. Somebody likes he's somebody like saw,
12:12
Speaker 4: I'm going to make things terrible for everybody because it
12:14
Speaker 4: will benefit me in the long run, because I believe
12:17
Speaker 4: that'll make the rebellion grow. Whether Saul has that same
12:21
Speaker 4: type of focus, we'll have to see. But do you
12:24
Speaker 4: think we're just predisposed as longer term Star Wars fans
12:27
Speaker 4: to sympathize with man Mathma, or do you think that
12:30
Speaker 4: there's something compelling about Luthen's argument where we start to
12:33
Speaker 4: see why man Mathma couldn't work within the system, why
12:37
Speaker 4: Lea can't work within the system, and neither can Bail.
12:42
Speaker 1: I think the most interesting thing about this is is
12:45
Speaker 1: the Luthan says to mon Mathma something akin to there
12:49
Speaker 1: are going to be no more rules. And what he's
12:53
Speaker 1: trying to get across to man is the fact that
12:56
Speaker 1: they're the Empire hasn't been playing by any rules. It's
13:00
Speaker 1: put on the veneer of rules, but it doesn't play
13:03
Speaker 1: by any rules. It does what it wants when it wants,
13:05
Speaker 1: and it gets away with it, right, And so I
13:08
Speaker 1: think that what Luthen is trying to get across to
13:11
Speaker 1: her is saying, hey, we start, we have to start
13:15
Speaker 1: playing more by those rules. And yet at the same
13:20
Speaker 1: time it maybe it gives too much away for where
13:23
Speaker 1: the show goes, but it's like the Luthan is willing
13:27
Speaker 1: to be the guy who does that to damn his soul,
13:30
Speaker 1: to play by no rules, but he's he doesn't necessarily
13:33
Speaker 1: expect every single person in the rebellion to play like that, right,
13:37
Speaker 1: He's willing to be the worst of the worst, but
13:42
Speaker 1: he doesn't seem to be necessarily expecting everybody to muddy
13:47
Speaker 1: himself to the point that he is going to, if
13:49
Speaker 1: that makes sense.
13:50
Speaker 4: But that leads to the ultimate discussion point that is
13:54
Speaker 4: there in perpetuity with anything? Is there such a thing
13:58
Speaker 4: as too far. Yeah, we agree the Empire is a
14:02
Speaker 4: bad system. But let's take, for instance, let's say wherever
14:06
Speaker 4: you want to put in your brain, I'm not going
14:07
Speaker 4: to reveal my own biases or yours or anything like that.
14:11
Speaker 4: Somebody decides something as a bad system, well if they
14:17
Speaker 4: then decide that any means are appropriate, you know, like
14:22
Speaker 4: it's it's sort of like a in principle discussion. Sure,
14:26
Speaker 4: I can adapt my you know, my means to any situation,
14:32
Speaker 4: but is man mathma right in someone like like that?
14:36
Speaker 4: That's the sort of thing that I that, like, I
14:38
Speaker 4: think is just such a a George Lucas type of
14:41
Speaker 4: thing to ask. There are heroes on both sides, evil
14:45
Speaker 4: as everywhere. That is such a controversial way to talk
14:48
Speaker 4: about it nowadays, that that those two sentences in the
14:54
Speaker 4: title crawl of episode three Revenge of the Sith are
14:58
Speaker 4: controversial by that type of standards, But Luthen is living
15:02
Speaker 4: by that type of standard, where he's saying, YEA, they
15:05
Speaker 4: got their heroes and their evil. I'm going to be
15:08
Speaker 4: evil on this side so our heroes can do what
15:11
Speaker 4: they need to do.
15:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that you've just nailed one of
15:18
Speaker 1: the main reasons as to why. I think that and
15:21
Speaker 1: or is exactly the type of thing that George Lucas
15:29
Speaker 1: would love, because it fits so well with what you
15:34
Speaker 1: just said, you know, the the Revenge of the Sith
15:38
Speaker 1: opening with that that crawl. This is continuing to play
15:43
Speaker 1: out that question in a very real way, and the
15:48
Speaker 1: cost of rebellion freedom, you know, how do we obtain that,
15:53
Speaker 1: especially with a machine that is willing to basically do
15:58
Speaker 1: whatever it takes and do whatever it wants with no apologies.
16:02
Speaker 1: And so I think that's the one of the interesting things.
16:07
Speaker 1: I think though, that the interesting dynamic then between mon
16:11
Speaker 1: Mathma and Luthan is that what we have, what we
16:15
Speaker 1: are seeing here, specifically with mon Mathma, is that Luthan
16:19
Speaker 1: is trying to slowly get her to realize what this
16:22
Speaker 1: is going to take right uh and and and that
16:27
Speaker 1: it is going to be a much more messy business
16:32
Speaker 1: than she thought possible. Yes, and and and and whether
16:38
Speaker 1: or not again he he would think that she needs
16:42
Speaker 1: to be him. Basically, she does have to understand the
16:46
Speaker 1: cost of this. This this could cost them everything.
16:50
Speaker 2: Uh.
16:50
Speaker 1: And I think that she's almost been hoping that that's
16:55
Speaker 1: not going to be the case.
16:56
Speaker 3: Uh.
16:56
Speaker 1: And I think she just really realizes this. This episode
17:00
Speaker 1: is helping her have her eyes opened. This could get
17:04
Speaker 1: really nasty, really fast. And then her response as she
17:08
Speaker 1: goes to her friend and she actually I think she's
17:11
Speaker 1: emboldened in a sense because especially when she realizes that
17:15
Speaker 1: there are more people like her than she thought, it's
17:20
Speaker 1: almost as though that whole situation gives her the freedom
17:26
Speaker 1: then to really, Okay, I'm going to take this massive,
17:30
Speaker 1: major risk. And her interaction with Tay is really the thing.
17:37
Speaker 1: I think that that kind of seals her willingness to
17:43
Speaker 1: start playing the game very, very hard and risk everything.
17:49
Speaker 1: Because as much as she hated that conversation with Luthan,
17:55
Speaker 1: I think it kind of galvanizes her as well, which
17:59
Speaker 1: you know.
18:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, but to come back to the Luthen thing, do
18:04
Speaker 4: you think that all right? Conversely, because I'm sitting there
18:06
Speaker 4: is like, are we predisposed you know, to side with
18:09
Speaker 4: man Mathma about you know, the way she's working with
18:12
Speaker 4: things because we're longtime fans, et cetera, et cetera. But
18:15
Speaker 4: then to flip it on it said and asking it,
18:17
Speaker 4: you know, just from approaching a different angle, do you
18:20
Speaker 4: think that we're predisposed to agree with Luthen because we know,
18:24
Speaker 4: especially as longtime fans, because well, we have not encountered
18:27
Speaker 4: the Emperor or Vader in this series at this point.
18:30
Speaker 4: We haven't seen anybody get fried or chopped up or
18:34
Speaker 4: mind wiped or anything like that. Are we predisposed to
18:38
Speaker 4: side with Luthen because we know this isn't just a
18:42
Speaker 4: terrible system that they're up against, but against again the
18:46
Speaker 4: devil himself running everything. Are we predisposed to hear Luthen's
18:51
Speaker 4: discussion about being an extremist and saying, well, yeah, obviously
18:55
Speaker 4: we know who's at the top of this chain.
18:56
Speaker 2: It's sidious invader.
18:58
Speaker 4: Of course, you got to be a you know, and
19:00
Speaker 4: the inquisitors are active at you know, up until around
19:04
Speaker 4: this time.
19:04
Speaker 2: You know.
19:04
Speaker 4: Like like, there are a whole lot of things that
19:07
Speaker 4: I think you have to sit there and wonder, right, like,
19:10
Speaker 4: are we predisposed to give a lot of grace to
19:13
Speaker 4: Lutheran's argument because we know firsthand who the emperor really is.
19:19
Speaker 4: He's not just some savvy politician.
19:24
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's the human element in the story,
19:29
Speaker 1: and I think there is something instinctual to us that
19:34
Speaker 1: responds to people being oppressed in this way where we
19:40
Speaker 1: want to see justice done, we want to see you know,
19:44
Speaker 1: freedom reign. And there's just something in so many of
19:48
Speaker 1: us where what we're willing to and this is the question, right,
19:53
Speaker 1: what are you willing to do or what are you
19:55
Speaker 1: willing to allow to have happen to be able to
20:00
Speaker 1: attain that? What is going to be okay to make
20:03
Speaker 1: this happen or or let this happen. And you know,
20:07
Speaker 1: I think that's that's the question that this show is
20:12
Speaker 1: dealing with and asking the audience to have to deal with.
20:17
Speaker 1: And it's you know, obviously pieces of that are in
20:21
Speaker 1: rogue one, you know from the very beginning where you know,
20:25
Speaker 1: and Or shoots that guide so he can get away.
20:28
Speaker 1: I mean, again, these questions just keep continuing. The joke
20:32
Speaker 1: has been made about destroying the Death Star and all
20:34
Speaker 1: the people that died on it that you know, they're
20:36
Speaker 1: just they're doing a job or whatever. But that's a
20:38
Speaker 1: that's a legitimate thing in the sense of like you
20:40
Speaker 1: think about how many people died, what is it missible
20:44
Speaker 1: and what is permissible? Uh in a state of war
20:48
Speaker 1: like this, especially against the machine. The size of the
20:51
Speaker 1: empire is a great question, and and and that's what
20:55
Speaker 1: this episode is really playing with.
20:57
Speaker 4: Well, the thing that I like in You know, there
21:01
Speaker 4: are things about this episode that don't play particularly well for.
21:07
Speaker 2: Me, but I don't I don't even want to bother
21:09
Speaker 2: talking about them.
21:10
Speaker 4: I want to keep going on this road here because
21:15
Speaker 4: I think that the episode also to address your part
21:19
Speaker 4: of the statement there about what's permissible and who's working
21:24
Speaker 4: in the system and everything. I think a system like
21:27
Speaker 4: the one that's being portrayed here, they show that it
21:31
Speaker 4: attracts as into.
21:34
Speaker 2: Roles of authority.
21:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you see that at the end that trooper
21:39
Speaker 4: is on a power trip, Yes, exactly, giving and and
21:43
Speaker 4: Or has done nothing wrong, and I think that the
21:47
Speaker 4: truly terrific thing is it. Then in the moment where
21:51
Speaker 4: and Or gets arrested by any metric, this guy is
21:54
Speaker 4: literally a murderer. He should go to prison fair enough.
21:59
Speaker 4: He shoots the guy in cold blood in the he
22:02
Speaker 4: doesn't shoot him on purpose, I mean guy, he shoots
22:06
Speaker 4: the guy shoots the other guy. Yes, but I'm a
22:09
Speaker 4: guy whose neck he breaks is an accident. That one
22:11
Speaker 4: I'm willing to be like, Look, that was just i'll
22:14
Speaker 4: give you a probation sort of thing.
22:15
Speaker 2: The other guy. I'm like, that's.
22:18
Speaker 4: That's pretty cold. So by a lot of metrics, he's
22:23
Speaker 4: committed a crime. We know he you know, he's remorseful
22:25
Speaker 4: for it, but you know, anyway, So I think the
22:31
Speaker 4: the episode does a great job of showing how even
22:34
Speaker 4: the low level person a system like this engenders the
22:38
Speaker 4: worst nature people. Yes, yes, yes, And I think it
22:41
Speaker 4: also does a great job of really doing what science
22:45
Speaker 4: fiction slash space fantasy should be doing, which is, you
22:51
Speaker 4: see how a standardized or industrialized justice system is more
22:58
Speaker 4: about processing than it is about justice. Because let's remove
23:04
Speaker 4: his past from it. He's literally just going to the
23:08
Speaker 4: store and a guy profiles him, and that guy's given
23:12
Speaker 4: the benefit of the doubt because he's wearing that trooper uniform,
23:16
Speaker 4: the short trooper. This is a short trooper, right that
23:19
Speaker 4: we're gonna see rogue. Yeah, yeah, And and Or winds
23:22
Speaker 4: up getting just consumed by the machine because they've just
23:26
Speaker 4: got too many court cases to process and it's just
23:28
Speaker 4: let's just get him out the door as quick as
23:30
Speaker 4: we can. And then we see immediately these reforms the
23:34
Speaker 4: ISB is talking about come into effect with the expanded
23:40
Speaker 4: sentencing because of what he's accused for is underneath the
23:44
Speaker 4: was it the PRD? So I want to say to you,
23:49
Speaker 4: I know it made me feel really uncomfortable watching that
23:53
Speaker 4: whole thing play out.
23:55
Speaker 2: I'm not unique in that, right, Oh.
23:58
Speaker 1: No, I mean, because I think that's the fear of
24:02
Speaker 1: anyone is a miscarriage of justice, right, the system that
24:08
Speaker 1: doesn't actually care about anybody in it, and they are
24:12
Speaker 1: just there to perpetuate the system, and they don't care
24:17
Speaker 1: who's affected or how they're affected. There's no actual justice
24:20
Speaker 1: being handed out. That's not what it's about, right, It's
24:24
Speaker 1: just about this is the system, this is what we do,
24:28
Speaker 1: and you're just caught in it and now you're just
24:30
Speaker 1: another cog in the wheel.
24:32
Speaker 2: Right.
24:33
Speaker 1: And No, I think that is the thing that this
24:37
Speaker 1: show does so well is that it's not necessarily trying
24:40
Speaker 1: to pinpoint anything specifically in our society, but it makes
24:45
Speaker 1: you think about things in our society. But it also
24:47
Speaker 1: makes you think about history and how we have had
24:50
Speaker 1: this exact thing thing happened. I mean you think about,
24:55
Speaker 1: especially in World War Two, people picked up and thrown
24:58
Speaker 1: into the German concentration camps or the gulags, right because
25:02
Speaker 1: they looked a certain way or they acted a certain
25:05
Speaker 1: way or whatever, and they were just thrown into the
25:07
Speaker 1: system and chucked away so we didn't have to deal
25:10
Speaker 1: with them. And that's exactly what the Empire is doing here.
25:15
Speaker 1: And so I think that you're absolutely right in the
25:18
Speaker 1: way that you were feeling watching because I was feeling
25:21
Speaker 1: that way too. The thing that I was really struck by, though,
25:24
Speaker 1: is the way in which and Or's character, and I
25:27
Speaker 1: mean character as a person really shines through in this episode.
25:31
Speaker 1: Because this guy has seemed to be somebody who's got
25:33
Speaker 1: kind of an amorality to him. But what does he do.
25:36
Speaker 1: He goes back to Pharyx. He wants Marva to come
25:39
Speaker 1: with him, Like who he cares about in this universe
25:43
Speaker 1: is her, because she's the one who took care of him.
25:46
Speaker 1: She saved him, so he comes back to basically save her.
25:50
Speaker 1: He also he goes to Bicks and he pays back
25:54
Speaker 1: the money that he owes to all of these people.
25:57
Speaker 1: He doesn't have to do that. Nobody has to know
25:59
Speaker 1: he has any money. He could just disappear forever and
26:02
Speaker 1: nobody know. And yet there is something in his character
26:05
Speaker 1: to which he is not just a shyster in somebody
26:09
Speaker 1: who's trying to take advantage of people and get away
26:12
Speaker 1: with it. He truly has some morality to him, which
26:15
Speaker 1: I find incredibly fascinating. And then on top of that
26:19
Speaker 1: that confrontation with Mara at the end, when he leaves,
26:24
Speaker 1: she has been emboldened by a thing she doesn't realize
26:27
Speaker 1: her adoptive son has been a part of. And in
26:30
Speaker 1: some ways her response is partly on and or shoulders
26:36
Speaker 1: because it leads her then to make a choice about
26:39
Speaker 1: how she's going to live and what she's going to do.
26:42
Speaker 1: But it's also again, she's just a microcosm of the
26:45
Speaker 1: larger macro, which is incredibly fascinating.
26:49
Speaker 4: By the way, one thing I wanted to ask you about,
26:53
Speaker 4: just to make sure I'm not jumping the gun, because
26:54
Speaker 4: I know that I don't spend a lot of time
26:57
Speaker 4: on Reddit forums or anything like that, but it's pretty
27:01
Speaker 4: clear that the Empire is at least spreading a story
27:06
Speaker 4: about what happened to the garrison that's far beyond the
27:09
Speaker 4: heist that they're talking about, because they talk about the
27:12
Speaker 4: destruction of the garrison and.
27:14
Speaker 1: It's yes, yes, no, they're making it sound like it
27:17
Speaker 1: was armageddon happened on this planet.
27:21
Speaker 4: So here's the question is do you think that they
27:25
Speaker 4: bombed the garrison to make it look terrible and cover
27:28
Speaker 4: up the missing money.
27:29
Speaker 1: I think they bombed the garrison so that they could
27:33
Speaker 1: have everybody there under that command that they needed dead too,
27:39
Speaker 1: so nobody could actually tell the real story.
27:42
Speaker 2: Right.
27:42
Speaker 1: I think that's sweeping sayings under the galactic rug.
27:45
Speaker 2: Right.
27:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanted to heap praise it because I've enjoyed
27:49
Speaker 4: staying focused on the positives here, the deep dive stuff,
27:53
Speaker 4: because that's what we're known for sort of thing. And yeah,
27:57
Speaker 4: it could create some discordance when we get to like
27:59
Speaker 4: final thoughts and ratings and stuff like that. But one
28:03
Speaker 4: thing I wanted to heat praise on the relaxing Resort
28:08
Speaker 4: Town soundtrack music that then plays over the end credits.
28:15
Speaker 4: Is this the best piece of world building background music
28:19
Speaker 4: we've gotten since Cantina Band and or Java's Palace.
28:24
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you asked that, because one of the
28:28
Speaker 1: most interesting things about that song is the way in
28:32
Speaker 1: which Nicholas Brittel utilizes it. It is the nelmos and
28:41
Speaker 1: it's it comes in different mixes, So there's a Morlana
28:44
Speaker 1: club mix you'll find it on the soundtrack and there
28:48
Speaker 1: are other mixes, and it continues to play in a
28:51
Speaker 1: different mix. In fact, you heard it a little bit
28:54
Speaker 1: at the party at Monmothmas. I mean you'll hear it
28:57
Speaker 1: throughout the entire the season, and in each place it
29:01
Speaker 1: kind of reflects where you are, and it's you know,
29:05
Speaker 1: mixed in a slightly different way. Like it just it
29:08
Speaker 1: really nails that sense that we're in a place where
29:12
Speaker 1: most people aren't thinking about anything that's happening in the galaxy.
29:16
Speaker 1: They're just here to enjoy themselves, you know, kind of
29:19
Speaker 1: like Canto bite right, like you're just here completely forget
29:22
Speaker 1: your troubles, so don't bother me. I'm just here to
29:24
Speaker 1: get a drink.
29:25
Speaker 2: And no.
29:25
Speaker 1: I like the music choice. I think it's really interesting.
29:30
Speaker 1: But I love the way in which they then utilize
29:32
Speaker 1: that this whole season, so that in each place it
29:38
Speaker 1: has a slightly different feel, which kind of gives you
29:41
Speaker 1: a slightly either uneasy feeling or kind of like ah feeling,
29:46
Speaker 1: And it's just, you know, it's good stuff. It's a
29:50
Speaker 1: good choice, right to have that music reflect all of
29:54
Speaker 1: these different moods and vibes throughout the season.
30:00
Speaker 4: And the thing is, I'm not meaning to throw any
30:02
Speaker 4: shade toward Clone Wars, because I think that Kevin Kiner
30:06
Speaker 4: with Hondo's Hideout has some club music playing in there
30:10
Speaker 4: that I think is quite quite good, because I've started
30:14
Speaker 4: a Clone Wars rewatch recently and I caught that piece
30:17
Speaker 4: again and I was like, oh, this has got a
30:19
Speaker 4: good vibe.
30:19
Speaker 2: But I think Zero, so do I I love?
30:28
Speaker 3: I love?
30:29
Speaker 1: Why haven't we gotten a black series figure to him?
30:32
Speaker 2: Why do I not have a character poster of Zero?
30:35
Speaker 2: Is my question?
30:35
Speaker 4: But you know what, you know, what, if they're going
30:38
Speaker 4: to bring back Darth Maul, you can bring back Zero,
30:40
Speaker 4: you cowards.
30:41
Speaker 2: You can do it.
30:44
Speaker 4: But I think what really works about it too is
30:48
Speaker 4: there is a vibe, especially with the way it plays
30:51
Speaker 4: over the end credits. To go back to the CANTEENA
30:54
Speaker 4: in the original Star Wars, it's basically like a jazz tune,
30:58
Speaker 4: and with this, this sounds like the electronica type of
31:01
Speaker 4: stuff from Chemical Brothers or Dust Brothers or daft Punk
31:06
Speaker 4: that people like, you know, get funky or even you know,
31:11
Speaker 4: something like blurred lines, you know, with with Robin Think
31:14
Speaker 4: and right yeah Ferrell and everything like that. Like it's
31:17
Speaker 4: got that sort of techno vibe to it. That works
31:20
Speaker 4: because it's something familiar. It's the way you love to
31:24
Speaker 4: say it, familiar but different, and it's like, this is
31:27
Speaker 4: a song I would just listen to.
31:28
Speaker 2: In the background while I was working. Yeah, And that's
31:31
Speaker 2: what I think works so well about.
31:32
Speaker 1: It well, And I think a big part of that
31:35
Speaker 1: is so much because the first place that we experience
31:40
Speaker 1: it is in a club, where that music feels so
31:44
Speaker 1: familiar to us. So therefore, to see it play out
31:47
Speaker 1: in all these different arenas in the way it's been
31:50
Speaker 1: mixed for different settings kind of fascinating, you know, in
31:53
Speaker 1: the same way a band will create different mixes for
31:58
Speaker 1: their songs to be used in different types of settings.
32:01
Speaker 1: So I love that. So I got to ask you this.
32:04
Speaker 1: This episode does have a quick moment where we get
32:08
Speaker 1: a flashback to see a little bit of Cassian's life
32:13
Speaker 1: that helps us have a further insight into his psyche,
32:18
Speaker 1: especially the resentment he has towards stormtroopers and the Empire.
32:24
Speaker 1: And what did you think about the use of that
32:27
Speaker 1: in this moment?
32:28
Speaker 4: Honestly, I think that it shows that what happens on
32:32
Speaker 4: Niamos is simply the logical extension of what was already
32:37
Speaker 4: going on the moment the Empire took over. They could
32:41
Speaker 4: do it on a little mud ball, brick and mortar
32:43
Speaker 4: place like Ferrixs because nobody paid attention to it. It's
32:47
Speaker 4: just that now it's been standardized, so even the resort
32:49
Speaker 4: towns are going to see it, and it might not
32:52
Speaker 4: be a column of troopers turning around and shooting a
32:54
Speaker 4: guy who's innocent, who was actually trying to stop the
32:57
Speaker 4: problem from happening.
32:59
Speaker 2: He knew where the rock being thrown would.
33:01
Speaker 4: Lead, and he still dies because he just happen to
33:04
Speaker 4: be standing there when they turn around. I think it's
33:08
Speaker 4: it's very effective because it shows that that's just in
33:12
Speaker 4: the DNA of a system like this.
33:14
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. It's one of those
33:16
Speaker 1: moments where we're getting pieces of and Or's character. This
33:22
Speaker 1: helps build into that, you know, it gives you one
33:26
Speaker 1: more piece of the puzzle as to why he's going
33:29
Speaker 1: to make the decisions he makes as we move throughout
33:31
Speaker 1: the rest of this series and of course into the
33:34
Speaker 1: second season and into Rogue one, which really shows the deafness.
33:39
Speaker 1: I think of the writer Tony Gilroy here and his
33:43
Speaker 1: brother just understanding what does it take to move a
33:48
Speaker 1: character from one place to the next, right, and what
33:52
Speaker 1: are the stops along the way that are really going
33:54
Speaker 1: to drive home that the journey that we want this
33:57
Speaker 1: character to be on to get them to this place
34:00
Speaker 1: that you buy it by the end. And that's something
34:03
Speaker 1: so very Star Wars. When George Lucas goes back to
34:06
Speaker 1: do the prequels and to expound on the character of
34:10
Speaker 1: Darth Vader, of course he does it in a way
34:12
Speaker 1: that most people aren't expecting, right, But he's filling in
34:16
Speaker 1: those places that help you to see, I can see
34:19
Speaker 1: how these puzzle pieces fit together and why this character
34:22
Speaker 1: makes the decisions that they do. And I think we're
34:26
Speaker 1: doing that well in this show with and Or, But
34:29
Speaker 1: we're also doing that on a whole other level with
34:32
Speaker 1: just the entire galaxy making those decisions that it does,
34:35
Speaker 1: where you can understand why people would choose to rebel,
34:41
Speaker 1: you know. So here's rise up.
34:43
Speaker 2: Here's a.
34:45
Speaker 4: Sort of like a parting question sort of thing. From
34:49
Speaker 4: the moment that Rogue One came out, regardless of whether
34:52
Speaker 4: you thought it was a good or very good movie,
34:54
Speaker 4: to the greatest things in Slice Spread wherever your reaction was,
34:58
Speaker 4: everybody responded well to an Or the character. Do you
35:02
Speaker 4: think that Star Wars is the property the IP at
35:07
Speaker 4: this point we are giving a very extensive backstory to
35:12
Speaker 4: and Or, who technically is not the prime character in
35:16
Speaker 4: Rogue one. Technically, do you think that this winds up
35:23
Speaker 4: in any way subverting Rogue one to make it the
35:26
Speaker 4: and Or story as opposed to the Gin story in
35:29
Speaker 4: some way?
35:30
Speaker 1: I would say no. And the main reason I say
35:33
Speaker 1: no to that is because Rogue one is Ginn's movie.
35:38
Speaker 1: You know, we see everything from her perspective. We're growing
35:43
Speaker 1: with her, we're moving with her. I think what this
35:45
Speaker 1: just helps us then as we watch that film is
35:48
Speaker 1: to be able to have that understanding of this character
35:52
Speaker 1: that's alongside of her, and so that when he says
35:55
Speaker 1: certain things they carry more weight and so to me,
36:01
Speaker 1: you know it doesn't.
36:04
Speaker 4: And this is me leading you into the trap. But
36:07
Speaker 4: maybe part of this story arc belonged to the Gin
36:11
Speaker 4: character because we know there was some stuff with Sauw
36:14
Speaker 4: that got cut out from Rogue one. There was stuff
36:16
Speaker 4: where she was involved with him in the past. We
36:19
Speaker 4: know that from Rogue one, and we know that and
36:22
Speaker 4: Or is going to wind up having dealings with saw
36:26
Speaker 4: and those sorts of things. Do you think that this
36:29
Speaker 4: show obligates Lucasfilm to at least try to come up
36:34
Speaker 4: with a one season show focused on Jin to get
36:37
Speaker 4: her to the same point, like show the same trend
36:41
Speaker 4: of Empire, but from her perspective as opposed to and Ors,
36:45
Speaker 4: so that we at least have some sort of expanded
36:48
Speaker 4: backstory for her, because we were cheated of it when
36:50
Speaker 4: they redid Rogue One, because it was there. You know
36:54
Speaker 4: that we've seen still photos of you know, of those moments,
37:00
Speaker 4: and so I had very different hair, and I think
37:03
Speaker 4: you know, does that basically has Disney slash Lucasfilm. Lucasfilm
37:09
Speaker 4: slash Disney obligated itself to give us a gin show
37:12
Speaker 4: like and Or at this point.
37:16
Speaker 1: I mean, if they wanted to do that, you know,
37:19
Speaker 1: I'd have no problem with it. I think it would
37:23
Speaker 1: be great. I don't think they're obligating themselves to do
37:30
Speaker 1: that with this. I feel as though Rogue One still
37:37
Speaker 1: does a very good job of representing the character of Jin,
37:43
Speaker 1: who she is and why she makes the decisions that
37:46
Speaker 1: she does. And I don't feel that she gets short
37:52
Speaker 1: changed now by and Or having this and part of
37:57
Speaker 1: that is because the storyline for and Or is more
38:02
Speaker 1: interesting in and of itself because he is so much
38:05
Speaker 1: more tied into the larger story. Gin isn't tied into
38:11
Speaker 1: the larger story until the moment of Rogue one. But
38:14
Speaker 1: and Or is because by the second season he is
38:18
Speaker 1: going to become this character in the Rebellion who is
38:22
Speaker 1: incredibly important, you know, in some ways the same way
38:25
Speaker 1: that you know, we end up finding out that Harris
38:31
Speaker 1: and Doula did you know that we didn't never know existed?
38:35
Speaker 1: And so no, I don't feel that you have to
38:38
Speaker 1: have a Gin story, And that would be my reasoning
38:42
Speaker 1: is because her part in the story doesn't touch the
38:48
Speaker 1: larger hole until we already see that in Rogue one,
38:52
Speaker 1: whereas and Ors does fair enough, and it gives us
38:55
Speaker 1: that opportunity then to explore all these other characters like
38:58
Speaker 1: my Mathma and Sagerera and Luthin and whatnot.
39:01
Speaker 4: So so we've we've had a great time talking about
39:04
Speaker 4: the you know, the deep dive stuff here like that
39:06
Speaker 4: we love to do without delving so much into some
39:09
Speaker 4: of the more technical stuff that I might harp on
39:13
Speaker 4: from time to time. But you know, did you have
39:15
Speaker 4: any like Is this a five star episode or did
39:18
Speaker 4: you have anything that detracted from it where you were like, Eh,
39:22
Speaker 4: you know, all of these things over here we've been
39:24
Speaker 4: talking about are great, but these things over here I
39:26
Speaker 4: could have done without or could have been trimmed.
39:30
Speaker 1: I think this is a four star episode. I think
39:33
Speaker 1: that it's to me, it's really well paced. Even the
39:37
Speaker 1: parts that we do spend with Cereal. There is something
39:41
Speaker 1: interesting about where he ends up into this Standards, this
39:45
Speaker 1: Imperial Standards warehouse. You know, it's like, looks like the
39:50
Speaker 1: world's worst cubicle job I've ever seen. Uh, and and
39:55
Speaker 1: so but I found everything it was happening because of
40:02
Speaker 1: the response to this announcement so interesting. I mean, and
40:08
Speaker 1: I even liked the way in which you know, they're
40:11
Speaker 1: sitting there hit Cyril and his mother and he's having breakfast.
40:15
Speaker 1: He's going to go to this interview and he's they're
40:18
Speaker 1: watching you know, the vid screen or whatever they call
40:21
Speaker 1: it in Star Wars, and the news is what's happened, right,
40:25
Speaker 1: and that it's touching everyone and everywhere in everything, right,
40:29
Speaker 1: this is this is the news of the day. And
40:33
Speaker 1: so it really led into and of course we don't
40:36
Speaker 1: spend too much time with Cyril. So that's great because
40:39
Speaker 1: the rest of the stuff in this episode is fantastic,
40:43
Speaker 1: from the Imperial response to the what we get with
40:46
Speaker 1: Luthen and mon Mathma and her recruiting Tay and and
40:50
Speaker 1: Or and Marva and Bix and like all that stuff
40:53
Speaker 1: in the flashback. That's great. You know, it's not a
40:57
Speaker 1: perfect episode because Cyril's still in it.
41:00
Speaker 4: So yeah, see again to stress, to stress, it is
41:03
Speaker 4: not the fault of the actor at all.
41:06
Speaker 2: It's not he's not He's great.
41:09
Speaker 4: He's Kyle Seller is doing a great job as Cyril.
41:13
Speaker 4: He's doing exactly what he's supposed to do. I think
41:15
Speaker 4: it's just they're having trouble figuring out how to fit
41:17
Speaker 4: him into the story. I know where it's pointed. So
41:20
Speaker 4: him winding up in the cubicle, this is what I
41:23
Speaker 4: think is one of those missed opportunities in terms of
41:25
Speaker 4: story pacing, because when and Or's in prison, Cyril getting
41:31
Speaker 4: thrown into the cubicle feels like it should have synced
41:34
Speaker 4: up there. I should have seen him in a cubicle.
41:37
Speaker 4: Good point when and Or gets into the prison, so
41:40
Speaker 4: you can understand the Empire in a prison. Just in
41:43
Speaker 4: two different ways. Yeah, and that I think is downside
41:47
Speaker 4: as well. I think if this, if these were all
41:50
Speaker 4: a bunch of mini movies instead of cut up into
41:52
Speaker 4: arbitrary hour low not arbitrary, but like cut up into
41:56
Speaker 4: you know, fifty minute episodes each and instead played as
41:59
Speaker 4: a movie, I honestly think that flow would be more
42:02
Speaker 4: apparent and the the comparisons more uh default for a
42:09
Speaker 4: casual viewer as well, because I think I do. I
42:12
Speaker 4: think that the the the trick with the show like
42:14
Speaker 4: this is the casual viewer is not going to plug
42:16
Speaker 4: into this the same way that the dedicated viewer will,
42:21
Speaker 4: and that that's always going to be a challenge.
42:24
Speaker 2: That's uh that that's faced.
42:26
Speaker 4: When you were when you've got something where it's obligated
42:30
Speaker 4: to point in a specific direction, to tie into something
42:33
Speaker 4: that already exists in the IP, and you know that
42:38
Speaker 4: that's a larger debate for some other time. I guess
42:40
Speaker 4: I four stars I think is a fair rating for
42:43
Speaker 4: this episode because of the fact that I I just
42:48
Speaker 4: dig the ib stuff so much. Yeah, and I love Yeah,
42:53
Speaker 4: I love the very pointed commentary about the sentencing stands
43:02
Speaker 4: aspect of this justice system really speaks to a specific
43:07
Speaker 4: point that is very very apt for.
43:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very point. Yeah.
43:16
Speaker 4: But if people want to point things that you Matt
43:20
Speaker 4: to discuss this episode, where can they find you online?
43:22
Speaker 1: Well, be careful where you point that stick. You can
43:24
Speaker 1: find me all over social media under the name Matt
43:26
Speaker 1: Rushing zero two. Of course here on the network, you'll
43:28
Speaker 1: find me on our posts with Gray Kaufman, talked about
43:32
Speaker 1: every single chapter the Harry Potter series. You can also
43:35
Speaker 1: find me over on the TFM network with a bunch
43:37
Speaker 1: of shows once the six oh two Club. John's a
43:40
Speaker 1: frequent guest over there, and we talked about all of
43:42
Speaker 1: those franchises that we love outside of Star Trek. But
43:46
Speaker 1: then of course there's a lot of great Star Trek
43:48
Speaker 1: talk over there that I'm doing with my good friend
43:50
Speaker 1: Chris Jones. So I hope that you'll check out all
43:52
Speaker 1: of that. But John, you know, if people want to
43:56
Speaker 1: express their love for the ISB and you know just
44:00
Speaker 1: how well they do things, and you know your affinity
44:05
Speaker 1: for them, and maybe why we should worry about you
44:07
Speaker 1: where is that?
44:08
Speaker 4: Well, you should worry about me because of how much
44:10
Speaker 4: I have a problem with the fact that they never
44:12
Speaker 4: call out Admiral Yolauren by specific names so that I
44:16
Speaker 4: can sit there and be like, come on, come on,
44:18
Speaker 4: come on, Clone Wars tie in. But you can find
44:21
Speaker 4: me as Castle Junkie out there Kesseljunkie dot Com. And
44:24
Speaker 4: that's you know, kessel Junkie has been my name online
44:27
Speaker 4: since I think it was like two thousand and three
44:28
Speaker 4: or something like that. Anyway, you can find me out there,
44:31
Speaker 4: and you can find me right here on the network,
44:34
Speaker 4: co hosting a show called house Lights where we look
44:36
Speaker 4: at the work of directors and who knows, who knows,
44:40
Speaker 4: Maybe we'll have a house of Tony Gilroy at some
44:42
Speaker 4: point in the future if he just expands his his
44:47
Speaker 4: library of directorial work. At some point, I'd be willing
44:50
Speaker 4: to do it. I'd be willing to give it a try.
44:52
Speaker 4: So anyway, that's where you can find us on these
44:55
Speaker 4: different things. And I know that we're about to get
44:57
Speaker 4: a mandatory six year sentencing if this episode goes any longer.
45:01
Speaker 4: So Master Rushing, I think it's time to close these negotiations.
45:05
Speaker 1: John negotiations are place. Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.