Latest / Caught on the Mike... / J.Lately

Transcript

J.Lately · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest has spent years proving you don't have to shout the loudest to make the biggest impact.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: His brand new album, Room to Grow, is out now, and we're talking about the music, the mindset, and everything in between.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is Jay Lately.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, my friend.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks for having me.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I tell you what, for the very first time, I'm gonna pull the curtain back and show how the sausage is made.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've never had to do a second take on an intro, but here we go.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I did that.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's just such an epic one, you know.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I love it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, Room to Grow, let's talk about it.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's such an interesting title, and I mean that in all the right ways.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: You've already had success, you've toured the country, and you consistently release music.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: What made you feel like this chapter was still about growth?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's something that's been like central to my uh my art or music and throughout the whole my whole process, you know.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's kind of partially where I get my name from, or or really where I get my name from is this idea that my first name is Jeremy.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the idea this is Jeremy lately.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's supposed to remind myself that I should always be growing and changing.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like if this if this current version of me is the same as the last time you saw me, say we talked a year ago, if that was if I'm the same as I was back then, what have I been doing with this past year of my life?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so we should always be growing and evolving in some way, and that doesn't mean you need to like change up on people or anything, but we should always be feeling like we're evolving in some type of way.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel the same musically, and you know, it also stems that that album title stems a little bit from like uh, you know, I have been doing this for a long time, and so there's this feeling sometimes of like, you know, I haven't made it to where I want to be yet, right?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's really reassuring to know, well, I'm not as good as I'm gonna be yet.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not as good as I could be yet.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: There still is space for me to get better and do things better to be able to get to where I want to go.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it's this like kind of juxtaposition of this terror, it's a it's a little terrifying, like, oh, I'm not as good as I want to be.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: That can be really that can bring you down and really uh, you know, hold you back.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then at the same time, it's like, ah, I'm not as good as I want to be yet.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I could do that too.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of how you approach that same problem.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do I choose to use it as a source of motivation or do I choose to let it bring me down and hold me back?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love the reciprocity between your name and the album title.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love it so much.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And reason I called out out specifically, you said something when you were talking about the concept of room to grow that made me think of how we communicate in this modern era.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: We communicate so much through social media, and I've had this conversation with so many friends over the years.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you know, how many people do you talk to online that talk to you today as if you were the same person you were five years ago?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're all they're getting is like snapshots, uh kind of or something like that, right?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes, totally.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So was there a moment over the last year or so where you realized that you weren't specifically weren't the same artist that you were during Good Morning Hello?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting question.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think explicitly, no, but I've also had like major changes in my life recently.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I recently, like three and a half months ago, just had my second child.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: When I put out, I wrote Room to Go during the process, or no, excuse me, not Room to Grow.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote uh Good Morning Hello during the process of having my first child.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So like my life has been changing very much.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't think like artistically I'm like, all right, I I am this my my artistic evolution is moving in this path or anything.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's more just like I have some very serious life changes happening right now that are influencing who I am as an artist, you know.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, so many people, especially in the artistic circles, think that parenthood kind of is the beginning of the end.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I know it through my personal experience, no way, dude.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: That shit was like me sharpening my tools and getting better and more concise and more focused with my craft, whether it was my time in music or my time through through podcasting here.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel that you've kind of had that same experience?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I totally have.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can see how for certain people it could be the opposite and it could be like it, it's it's a tipping point, I think, to me.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: It makes you really decide, all right, am I really doing this or should I not?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I'm gonna be taking all this time away from the people that I love and uh making other sacrifice, like my wife has to work harder at other things, so I can go do this stuff.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm gonna do all that, I better be doing it for a real reason.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes you decide, am I going all in at this?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, now's probably the time to start moving out, you know.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: So your lyricism has it had an impact as far as the subject matter and how you approach the craft itself?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think like as as explicitly as as one might think, but I'm sure it's definitely like coming through in my perspective, you know.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think I, you know, am yeah, I would say it's definitely coming through in my perspective.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like I'm necessarily like writing songs about being a parent or necessarily like writing from the perspective explicitly of being a parent, but I'm naturally writing from the perspective of being a parent.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking about life things that I've never thought before thought about before.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm dealing with stress that I've never dealt with before.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm dealing with ups I've never dealt with, downs I've never dealt with.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just a lot of inspiration and and kind of, you know, input.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of input into me that then I can output, you know.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in kind of building upon what you're saying, it brings the whole subject matter of the whole idea of room to grow, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because having kids does something to us that not everybody thinks about.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: You start to look at your life as past, present, future, and you start looking at mortality through their eyes, not to go all deep and philosophical, but it really does like again, not to repeat myself, it gives you a catalyst to sharpen that focus and like make sure what you're saying is as impactful as it possibly can be.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I think another piece of it too is like with that kind of added responsibility of like, if I'm gonna do this, I better go hard at it.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's also this kind of like added responsibility of like, if I'm gonna do this, like what does this mean to me?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it also better have a meaning, a real meaning to me, you know, because if this is just about success and money, like there's other places that are even easier avenue for me to achieve those two things.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if I am gonna decide to go really hard at this, like I should be making music that I feel good about.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: I should it should be making me happy, it should be something that I really want to do when I wake up, and it kind of makes you take take note of that and be like, you know, reconsider like, all right, is this, you know, is this still really meaningful to me?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is this still really makes me happy?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is this still what gives me purpose in life?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And for me personally, the answer is yes, but I can see how for s for others, when these other factors of life come in, how the answer might be no.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I'm glad you use the word purpose because I hear a lot of purpose in your lyricism.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: You seem really comfortable kind of living between worlds.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Your music has one foot in underground hip-hop, another in alternative, almost singer-songwriter territory.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Have you intentionally avoided chasing trends?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I never really like feel like I fit in.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the most natural way for me to is just to accept that, and that's like kind of the way I can be comfortable.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I naturally avoid it other than maybe like feeling like I just look stupid when I've like tried to d like when I've tried to look like something else, I always come off feeling really stupid to myself.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I just not good at that thing over there, I guess, or I'm not made for that thing.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just been a lot of me being like, all right, let's focus on what I am good at.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's look at what are my strengths, what do I bring to the table that others might not be bringing to the table?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that's special about me?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when I look at the other trends or sounds or whatever going on in hip-hop that are like, you know, more broadly seen, none of it looks or feels like me or and so it's like, why even try going to do something that someone else is so much naturally better at doing than myself?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna focus on doing the thing that I might actually be better at doing than them, which is this brand.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I feel like I repeat myself on so many podcast episodes, but in a good way.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the benefits to streaming services, and we could sit here and we could shit on streaming services all day, you know, if the payout factors and all the ugly sides of it, but one of the things from a consumer side that I think is really beneficial is that modern music listeners don't adhere to boundary lines like they used to.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: They're a little bit more relaxed into blending genres.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, we're kind of having a renaissance right now of artists that aren't afraid to kind of blur those genre lines, and it's almost like every artist is creating their own genre in the process, if that makes sense.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, like you said, there are tons of things to be upset about about the way that streaming works and algorithms and all that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing that it does do is it allows us as musicians to think more about humans and people when we make music.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like counterintuitive to what everyone thinks because they're like, oh, it's all tech.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I actually don't need to fit a genre, I don't need to fit a look, I don't need to fit anything.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: What I do need to do is just find the people who like what I am, and they're out there, and they might not be packaged in boxes the same way they are for these like huge commercially successful artists, but they're out there and through these algorithms and the way that these streaming services present our music, if we're able to target them in the right direction and kind of give them the give them it like for lack of a better word, like the data, give them the like, these are the type of people that like my music, this is the type of sound I make, and build this kind of information for them.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're able to direct that music to those types of people who like what I make without me having to be on some major visibility level.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it can just go directly into people's lives.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's more about like connecting, thinking about the people you're trying to connect with as opposed to like the system that you need to play or this game you need to play.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, all right, how can I connect with this group of people that will resonate with what I do?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I imagine that we kind of came up with the the same sense of fandom.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's first to market, you know.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was the first guy that discovered this artist, or I was the first guy that discovered, and then you share it out with your friend, and that kind of builds a sense of loyalty.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that Wild West mentality that you're talking about leads to a greater connection between artists and fans and fans becoming more loyal to certain artists as a result?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I 100% do.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I'm like just a firm believer in every, for the most part, every aspect of life that like slow and steady is the right way.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you can manage, if you can be patient and you you have whatever resources to survive and and patiently build something, it's gonna hold you down for a longer period of time.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we're, you know, I every musician is gonna go through a high point of their career and multiple low points, and like that foundational stuff is what's gonna provide longevity for people, I believe.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's worth it.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm always from the perspective of like, I would much rather have 500,000 extremely loyal fans than like, you know, 20 million people who listen to my music any day.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take that because like I can live off 500,000 extremely loyal fans, I can live an extremely good life off them for the rest of my life.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if I if something goes wrong, I can trust that at least 150,000 of them are still gonna be there to ride with me and just keep me afloat.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, they're gonna hold it down.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas that other stuff is fickle, that real, those and any big huge moments of stuff, that stuff's fickle if you don't already have that foundational support.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, totally.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I was debating with some buddies about that very thing the other day, and I was talking about virality versus longevity.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, a lot is being made this summer specifically about blue dot fever, big concerts getting canceled because not enough seats are selling.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And my argument to that is is it's kind of the proof that virality really isn't the key way in anymore.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's playing that long game and like just grinding and being consistent and consistently showing up for an audience, whether that audience be an audience of five or five million.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean the thing is too that virality is hard to repeat.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you can, you know, if I can go viral for all the five singles off my album rollout, as well as two songs off my album when it drops, then great, run that course, you know.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: But most people can only go viral one time in their life, maybe, if not or or you know, one time a year.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, what do you do?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: What are you surviving off the rest of the time?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so uh it's so outside of our control that it's it's like in my mind, it's a thing not to chase, but a thing to let happen.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like create the situation where you can get lucky, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Build a successful career, build an active fan base, build people who love about love everything about you, and then hope that something takes off, and probably it will if you've built you know, then you you're increasing your chances if you've built those other things around you.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, getting back to the music, your music balances deep reflections with songs you can just vibe to.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: As a matter of fact, I I think I DM'd you and I was just like, dude, I was just bumping at last, and when that beat drops, the the only way I could describe it to my friends who I shared it with, which I did, I've I've been sharing your music, brother.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I like to hear it, man.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, I was like, at last, when that beat drops, it's crispy.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I can say.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's fucking crispy, and it's so good.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you consciously think about when you're sequencing an album, or does it just naturally come out that way?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's kind of like this balance of like having some having having a like conceptually and topic-wise, how does this album sequence?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then something that I almost put more focus into is like feel of the music-wise, how does it sequence?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to I I I I care less about like the concept story that I go with throughout the whole thing, and I want to feel like I'm on an emotional and kind of like melodic journey or tempo journey or things like that.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like though I want to feel the movement in the music throughout.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing like the main thing I do is just listen to transitions from songs.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I what when it goes from song one to song two, does it feel like we're we're going in the right, and then song two to song three, and and it should feel like a ride that makes sense to me when I make it, you know.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course, there's like I have favorite, like at last is one of my favorite songs off the album, and so it's like I want that, you know.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's the one I want to hear when I turn it on, you know.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hell yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, collaboration has been a huge part of your catalog, and this record brings in Travis Thompson, Recognize, uh, evil Ebenezer, so much more.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: What makes someone a Jay Lately collaborator?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is it chemistry?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is it friendship, or is it just simply mutual respect?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh chemistry and mutual respect are like the two strongest.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's people I collaborate with that I don't have a personal relationship with.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I might have a very loose personal relationship, and then there's people I collaborate with that, you know, I go out and get breakfast with and stuff.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the biggest thing to me is like me being a fan of them.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and then I also one thing I really think about is are my fans a fan of what they will bring to the table, even if they've never heard of them before.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: But my job is to deliver for my fans, and so I don't want to be bringing things to my songs that are are not what my fans would enjoy.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um so and I and you know, for the most part, I think my fans enjoy things that I enjoy.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, if I'm a fan of this artist, if I enjoy what they do, then I feel like I can get down with them, even if we don't have that close personal relationship, because I already feel like I have some sort of relationship and connection to this person through the all the music I've listened to of theirs.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a dream collaboration within your grasp that you haven't done yet that you want to make happen?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I always I always think of Devin the dude when this comes up.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my uh one of my favorites from like, you know, forever.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and one of those people that like I I pull things from the way he carries himself through an industry where it's like things are supposed to look one way and he very much approaches it differently and is like able to be himself while still fitting in.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's just a lot I like really love about Devin the Dude, and like it's almost so much so that I like need to, it needs to be a personal thing.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I need to develop some sort of relationship first.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to just hit the business email and be like, hey, can we do a song together?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want it to be like somehow we come together, chop it up, whatever, build some sort of small relationship where I can where I have his phone number that I could text him or something like that, you know.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I I knew there was a reason I liked you.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm the same way with this show.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like same exact way with the show.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, it's like I get pitched, I think, anywhere from five to twenty guests a day, and I'm like, if I don't have some sort of personal rapport or I can't build a personal rapport, it's like even if it doesn't move the needle forward, I don't want to do it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be inauthentic.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be authentic to the guest.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want you to leave this show saying, you know what, I could hit up Mike any single time I want to, and we can talk, you know?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important whenever you build collaborative relationships.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's something that like, you know, there's something about choosing to have a career in music where you're like constantly balancing business with like love, for lack of a better word.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, yeah.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's an important thing to like be aware of yes, I do need to conduct business, but I also chose this business because of love.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that should something about that meaningful, caring, loving side of it should always be present, or else what am I even doing here?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think even if you're, you know, someone might look at what you do, and it's like less of the maybe artistic side of it or creative side of it, but there's still love and passion involved in what you do, otherwise you would be doing something else if they're you know.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, talking about the live environment.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Recently shared a stage with the Jiza from the Wu-Tang clan.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: What's something that touring still teaches you that you can't learn making records at home?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this isn't music related, but touring teaches me that I live in a bubble.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, life-wise, the one the biggest thing that I've learned from touring is just it's it's so mind-opening and like it just breaks down so many barriers about like this is like this and this is like that, and it just reminds me that like I very much live in a in a homogeneous environment when you look at the grand scale of things.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it just kind of reminds me, I guess, to like humble myself in terms of what I think I know about what it is to be a human on this earth, or you know, even more directly, like a human on the in the United States of America.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because living in California, when you get outside of here, it's not it's not what it is here, you know?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then at the same time, there are so many things that connect us.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a really interesting human psychological study or whatever, like being out on the road.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I was.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: That you used human as an adjective, because I actually wrote that down on my notes here, because your music does feel incredibly human.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: You rap about relationships, anxiety, everyday life, self-doubt, not just the victories.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do fans ever tell you that hearing someone admit to those things gives them permission to do the same?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've never actually heard it put like that.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, fans will hit me up and tell me like this song helped me through a hard time, you know, etc.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard it like phrased that way, and I've kind of never thought about that I could do that for someone, but that's a cool way to think about it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I think, you know, uh even again, kind of reflecting upon this medium, that uh like you and I having this conversation, is sometimes there is this unintentional sense of therapy that comes through in listening to somebody else's words or listening to somebody else's description about what it is that you do and what it is that you're trying to project.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a burden we don't it's a burden and a privilege that we don't always, you know, think about at the forefront of our minds.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then no, that's interesting that you say that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I've always been someone who uh and I've thought about this in the way that I write, is like I want to make others feel comfortable.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that I value a lot about people in my life, is those people who have made me feel comfortable and allowed me to like step into places and just feel kind of like emotionally safe or whatever, for lack of a better term.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have always wanted that to be a part of my music.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want people to hear it and feel left out.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to feel like accepted and and you know come comfortable to be who they are, so maybe it comes across in that way.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So the independent grind has kind of changed so much.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we've talked a lot about human connection part of everything.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Social media wants artists creating content every day, meanwhile, you're actually trying to create art on top of it all.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: How do you keep those two worlds from competing with each other and not get lost in one over the other?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think about it as I create first.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I be cre I am creative first, and that's the first thing that comes.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just kind of spill that creativity out, even if it's just in writing a song.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like spill it all out, spill it all out, spill it all out.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Then I can go back and edit with a more um you know refined eye in terms of like, all right, how does this song structure?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do we move from here?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: What are people getting?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where is the what's the catchy part of this?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's the part that's gonna pull people in?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And in some of those decisions that might not be so creative in themselves, do I do that on the after I've you know kind of spilled everything out?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the kind of the same way with like how I'm gonna promote a song, like I don't think about how I'm gonna promote a song when I'm making it.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: I make the song, it's done, it sounds the way I want.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Then I'm thinking about artwork, imagery, you know, what world am I creating with this song?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right, what are the visuals gonna be and all those parts?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I just think of myself, you you know, you kind of have to just be like four different people now, whereas you used to just to get to be the artist and then you would pass it off to other people.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And sure, some people still get to do that, but as an independent artist, now it's like I just changed the hat.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I took off the the you know recording artist hat, and now I'm putting on a marketing hat.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm putting on, you know, and so I just change that hat and think, all right, how how can I use this art that this side of me just made?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm gonna, how can I market that art?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't change the art that I made.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's how I how I handle it in a way that it doesn't start to feel overwhelming that I need to do these other parts of it as well.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the biggest change that you've experienced from the time you started this to now?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is the evolution of responsibilities?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't think it's that because you know everyone like makes these claims that like, oh, artists have to do so much now.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: But artists back in the day used to be out there taping flyers.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like when I used to I used to do shows where like the big most important thing I could do instead of making these pieces of content was to go flyer the entire city.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that takes time and effort too, you know, or uh going to do radio shows or whatever it is, like coming up with some way to break through the noise.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: You had you always had to do that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, the biggest change is the avenues that we have to connect with people, and and I think now it's just such an influx, an overwhelming amount of like avenues out there, ways you can do it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's just overwhelming.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas back in the day, it's it was kind of like here's the three ways you can do it, and who can be better than everyone else at it, and outwork everyone else at it.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Those that's who's gonna rise at the top.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's like there's a million different ways you could succeed nowadays.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You could take a whole, you know, I I could dress up as a as a ping-pong ball, like my whole thing, you know what I mean?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like that could be my what I dedicate my whole life to is as an artist, and and that could blow me up.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, you know, like there's so many different ways you can attack it, and that can be really overwhelming for people.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's such an influx of information and like advice out there that we get pulled as artists in so many different directions all the time.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I gotta do this on TikTok, and now someone just said this is the thing to do on Spotify, and this is the thing to do over here, and this worked for this person.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a every I've seen five posts this week telling me that you know Connor Price did this, and 10 posts telling me, well, Russell did this, and now I'm supposed to do those, and it's it it can really pull people off their track.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like so many of us are like ungrounded in what we're actually set out to do and being able to follow through at doing that.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, dude, I love the fact that you use the ground level marketing as an example.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a former band guy myself, and back in the day, I was known in my market for the ground level marketing because what I would do is I'd put a bill together, I'd have like four bands on a bill, I would foot the money to get really nice four by six cardstock, glossy flyers.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'd order them online, get a box of five thousand of them, and we would just canvas the town.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like high quality promotional materials, so on and so on, so on.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: I say all of that to say I had a conversation with a promoter, one of the biggest promoters in my market the other night, and we're just kind of texting back and forth, and he's like, dude, I'm thinking about bringing the flyers back.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, and I'm starting to hear more and more people kind of talking about that ground level face-to-face marketing coming back again.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's 100% happening.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think you know, they always say like the industries go through waves and everything's gonna come back around.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I think it's gotten so far away from that that that now people are craving personal connection, something they can touch, something, you know.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's all about like I just try to do my best not to complain about whatever like the industry situations are.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's pot there's always gonna be positives, and there's always gonna be difficult things, you know.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, the fact that we get to promote ourselves on social media instead of in person, like half the time I'm happy about that.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not an extroverted person.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be out there passing out all those flyers, going into every store, having to strike up a conversation with the person at the coffee shop to try to get them to let me put my thing.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not who I am.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a I I don't I don't do well at that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I just get to go out with my cameraman who's my friend, who we have fun together and shoot these videos and press post, and I don't have to go walk up to strangers and shake their hand and start come up with a pick, you know, a line to get them interested in what I'm doing.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, this is to me, this feels easier than having to do that.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I think you know, we could all complain about a lot of things, but it's at the end of the day, it's like, man, are you gonna make it work or not for you?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if today's Jay Lately could sit down with a version of you who is just starting out, what piece of advice would you give him?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's kind of like a two-part thing.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like go go harder, like like treat yourself like you really believe in yourself and act as if you believe like next year it could all happen for you.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second part of that is do all that while realizing that in most people's eyes, you are absolutely nobody right now.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And right now, you don't actually have anything to stand on in terms of a fan base to deserve, to really deserve anything.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Anything you're given right now, you should be extremely grateful for and take full advantage of.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's though, those two things are things I both I think I could have done better at.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've always been hesitant.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's taken me a long time to really believe in myself.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a process for me.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think I was ready 10 years ago when I started making music to be what I wanted to be.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I still don't think this part of the room to grow concept.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: I still don't think I am.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: I still think I have room that I need to grow in order to be what I really want to be here.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if I really had kind of like treated it as if like in the next two, three years I need to get there though, and and had a little more hunger for like really attacking it, that would have been a benefit.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's also, yeah, realizing that right now, like someone puts you on a show and you're bringing five people there, like you're they they could not they they're doing you a favor, like go make the most of that favor, be grateful for that.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Don't come back next time asking for money because it's the second time you've done worked with them or whatever when you know you didn't put any money in their pocket the first time, like understanding that, understanding your value, I think is a uh important piece, having a better understanding of your value.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: If someone had never heard Jay Lately before, what's the one song you would tell them to start with and why?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I would say a song called Clean that I have, um, that features the grouch of living legends.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's probably I feel like that's the closest I've come to like my purpose musically.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like that felt like this is home kind of.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is where right where I should be, and it's almost like a it's a song that I did not overthink at all.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: It just flowed out of me.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: It just felt like a very natural song and state for me to be in.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and yeah, it's one that's like in my mind stood the test of time, and you know, I can listen to today and and feel really good about still.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Grouch is so good too.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love that like the the first These Hands album.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how many times.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've worn out my vinyl on that damn thing.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, him and Merce too.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like people like that were such a that was a whole game changer for me getting discovering that lane of hip-hop, you know.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm gonna date myself, but when I was in high school, you know, high school, like the like music on the internet was just becoming a thing.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was I was I came up on radio hip-hop.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I fell in love with.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: What I was seeing on TRL every day, aftermath was running shit, 50 Cent, Dre, the game, all that stuff.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved it, but it didn't really like deeply resonate with me.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got put onto people like Living Legends and Little Brother and Atmosphere and Dilated Peoples and that whole lane, and it just blew my mind.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me was where I went from being like, Oh, this is fun.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to write raps to like I can say something, like I can actually speak as myself here.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Look at all these other people who are speaking as themselves in a way that looks totally different than the main image that's presented to us here.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I could, even though I still don't see myself in any of them necessarily, I like the like I don't see that myself fully being represented.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can see how to do this myself now, though.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear a collaboration between you and Slug.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's another one up there.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's like that's you know, I probably should have said him instead of Devin the Dude, but he's it's the same thing.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, that is that's a top five collab for me, and I don't feel like I just want to have like I could reach out through different channels, and I don't feel like I just want to do that, you know.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, every artist is trying to leave something behind years from now.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: When people look back at your catalog, what do you hope that they say that Jay Lately stood for not just as a rapper, but as a person?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: You well, you were talking about like the the things you think about when you have a family and stuff.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: That is so I've never thought about like my legacy in any aspects of my life, musically or just you know, as a as a person.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's never been my concern in any type of way.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I have been thinking about it a little bit more recently after having kids.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of think my conclusion is like, honestly, I don't care.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I really don't care about what people think about me after I'm gone.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's more about what they think about me like while I'm here with you right now.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, am I do I do I lighten your load in any type of like like my whole I'm not trying to I'm not trying to change anyone's life or be this ma like I just want to make your day lighter because of my presence instead of heavier because of my presence.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if that can be the general, if you had any relationship with me or my music when I'm gone and you look back and think, hey, that was a positive you know, input on my life right there.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: That I'm good.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's all I'm looking for.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, if you get the opportunity, go check out Jay Lately's music on your favorite streaming platform.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, show him a little love.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a website.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about that here in just a moment.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: But my guy, my closing question, it's my most favorite question.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I ask every single person that has done my show over 250 episodes.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh my question is through your experience in your eyes specifically, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today through the things you've experienced?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's uh it were I guess what I choose to do with myself is I try to make myself genuinely happy.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like that to me is my easiest way, and it might be a little bit of a cop out to not doing like big deeds or something like that, but I try to actually genuinely feel the best about life each day that I can and trust that that's gonna mean that's gonna lead me to treat everyone and every situation in a better way than I would have otherwise.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of trying to go out and do some big act, I just it's almost like be really selfish to the point that you actually are a better person to others.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because like when you're truly happy, like you don't have like it's hard to have regret.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you haven't been an asshole to somebody, you don't regret those.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have to live with regrets.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so if I'm if I'm waking up every morning without regrets, that means I haven't done some asshole move to somebody yesterday.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like that means I haven't hurt somebody.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: That means I haven't so so to me that's the most manageable way for myself is like try to be in the best state for myself that I can be and I and and I have control over that.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have control over these a lot of these other issues in the world.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe this is how I deal with it because sometimes I get down about the fact that I can't, don't feel like I can make as big of an impact as I would like.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I just go very local, so local that it's like just myself because that's what I have control of.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm waking up in a bad mood today, I did something wrong.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Am I not sleeping right?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Am I not eating right?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Am I not exercising?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Am I not doing enough fulfilling things that you know what what am that's all in my control?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if I can change that, let's master that first, then I can uh kind of move beyond that is my approach.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you tell anybody that is watching this or listening to this where they can find you and your music online?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: My website is just lately music.com.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: All socials J, period, lately.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you just look that up anywhere, you should see me on there.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love it.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, room to grow available right now.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Check it out.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to Atlas at full volume while you're driving on a sunny day.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: When that beat drops, you will understand everything that I said.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, thank you so much for hitting me up and uh doing the show, man.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime you want to come back, the offer is open for you.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I appreciate it, man.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the world's a much better place with you and it, my friend.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for doing the show.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, bro.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.