Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Discussing Expedition Campers and Crossing Jungles with Lance Gillies

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Discussing Expedition Campers and Crossing Jungles with Lance Gillies · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady, and I am here with a good friend
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: of mine and someone that I admire not only for
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the products that he produces, but the places that he
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: has traveled in the world. I've got Lance Gillies with me.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: He is the founder and CEO of Earth Cruiser, and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we will talk a little bit about earth Cruisers today,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: but we really want to spend some time talking about
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Lance as a traveler and also the things that he's
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: learned not only as a traveler but as a builder
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of expedition campers that I think will apply to a
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: lot of the listeners. We can glean a lot of
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: insights from someone who has spent decades traveling the world
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: and building unique vehicles. And Lance started off in Australia
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: and he has traveled. He's done some significant expeditions, including
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: one that we're going to spend some time talking about today,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: crossing Calamantan in Borneo, sticking within a few degrees of
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the equator, and that was something that he just recently
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: completed in a very significant adventure in and of itself.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: So thank you for being on the podcast, Lance Night.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. You must be getting to the
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: bottom of the barrels to get me here.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: A no, it is. It is a pleasure. It's a
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: pleasure to have you. And and we first talked when
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: this was twenty eleven and you were you were coming
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to the US with Earth Cruiser, and we wanted to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: get a chance for me to get into one of
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: your vehicles, and you arranged for one of your earth
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Cruisers to be available for me to drive in Frasier
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Island around Australia, and I had such an amazing time
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: in that vehicle, and it really it showed me what
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: was possible in a vehicle that was designed for true
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: around the world international travel. And there was a lot
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: that I learned from that because I've driven a lot
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: of different campers and it was unique to see something
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: that was so purpose built for that, so very very
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: very cool. But I think one of the things that
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: makes you so notable in the industry is the fact
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: that you not only build campers, but you also are
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: very well traveled yourself as an individual. And one of
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the ones that you told me about just a few
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: minutes ago was trying to make it to cape. You
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: work in the wet, so tell us how that went.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: It went really well. I mean this is a lifetime
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: ago now, but yeah, so it was just how little highlights,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: nothing exciting, and we just really wanted to It was
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: to see if you can moment and I forgot how
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: many creek cross things. I forgot all about that sort
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: of stuff. And look, you traveled Australia. I mean those
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: some of those tracks people used to get the kids
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: to school, right, So don't be more on going to
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: break people's tracks. We're very cape, you know, we think
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: about that. So but the old telegraph track, tried to
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: follow the beach as much as we possibly could. All
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: that sort of stuff was just it was an adventure.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: We simply want to find if we could. It was, yeah,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: swim across with a winch cable on the other side,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. Have your mate, because I
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: went with a mate. Have a mate, TI to you,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: just because when those rivers start to go and they
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: really go, the fast rides are really fast.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: And how many how many vehicles did you have to
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: and what vehicles did you know?
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: The one it was a not not known here. It
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: was Holden rodeo basically a little it's kind of a
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: zizoo trooper, a little diesel matter, those are little diesels.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: It was just it was just fun. It was it's
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: what to my mind, it's supposed to be about. The
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: trucks weren't particularly special. I mean this is quite a
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: while ago now. Trucks weren't particularly special. It wasn't about that.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: It was about just a see if we can.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: If you it.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know, we spent some really good
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: times with Aboriginal communities and really remote places when other
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: people don't normally.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Go yeah, wonderful people, amazing people, incredible.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I learned something every day. It's just again,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: big part for us is just doing that. It wasn't
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that. It was you know, we wanted to
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: be legends. We just you just you kind of want
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: to test yourself, but not in a silly way, only
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: because it's just fun and you don't forget them, you don't.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm a big believer in that. You remember
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: the moment's not the years and then, And for me,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: that's a big part of travel.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is, no question, and it's also it
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: adds an element of excitement when you've got to wad
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: across this water crossing, but it's also filled with crocs.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of Germans that have
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: been consumed by crocodiles in northern Northern Australia.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Well, you know there's a just for your listen as
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: a quick story about crocs. Don't if you're going to
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: go fishing and wherever the crocodiles are, I mean not
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: just in Australia, but quick story. I mean, I'm sure
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: you've been told this is that you never ever go
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: the same water hole in the same place three times.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: You can see you and you'll let you cover. The
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: first time you go, the second time he goes all right,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: now he sized you up. And the third time you'll lunch.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: And so it's a really seriously so don't ever put
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: your swag down the same place three times. Don't do it.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Don't do it. Move it, even if your same campsite.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Move it.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: If you're going to go fishing, clearly don't go and
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: clean your fish where you just standing to be fishing.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Oh sure, ever you know if you're going to get else, Yeah,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: don't go filly water bottle anyway, but don't go and
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: clean you put some plans in the same place three times, don't.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Sure, don't do it, don't do it well. And that's
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: It's the same in Africa too. I remember I was
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I was on a friend's farm, big farm near the Kruger,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: and it was this beautiful and it was a hot
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: day and it was this there was a lot of
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: white water and everything. I'm thinking, there's no way there's
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: going to be crocs and stuff up here. And so
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I get working down a little bit closer to the
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: river and I start throwing rocks into the into the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: various pools and stuff, and sure enough, here goes a tail,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: this giant crocodile. And it made me realize, Yeah, you know,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: you just don't do it. You just can't do it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: It's it's their world. I mean, isn't that another great
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: part of traveling?
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I love you.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: You're pulling back a vial into a new exciting place. Yeah,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: if you want to open your eyes to it, if
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: you want to if you want to stay you know,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: if you want to stay in the airport, that's great.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: But it's I think it's a mental brain snat. We
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: have to do right that. You go, Okay, I've landed
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: this new place where it may be, and I'm going
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: to do the very best I can to say hello
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and whatever language. And I've got to start when I
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: walk off the airplane.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Oh that's great advice. And one of the things that
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I've loved doing is I'll download a book on the
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: history of the country. Then I'm going to go visit.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: And I also do get a small language book as well.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Usually you can get an app for that for for
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: whatever language you're you're going to be encountering. But learning
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: those pleasantries, learning how to say hi. They know that
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: you don't speak the language fluently, but the fact that
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: you've made an effort they really respond well to.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And I learned. I mean whatever, Right, you're off the airplane,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: your book into motel.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: What are you going to do?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Then? You know, you try and write it out, and
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: there's such an icebreaker. Yeah, at that first moment. All right, okay,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: so I've tried to I'm going to ride it out
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: in a way that I can remember it and and
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: explaining that to whoever it is. Is this the way
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I say hello in Mongol? Yeah?
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I have here.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I love Mongolia.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Is that one of your most favorite places to travel?
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: It's one of the most favorite places whole LOLd will.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: To me, and where did you travel in Mongolia?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Well, you know Ubi, so you know, we've got customers there.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: So to me, it's kind of sort of cheating because
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I can just go there and pick up a truck
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: and drive around, carry on.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: But I love Mongolia. It's really beautiful that the northern
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: part of Mongolia. When I went from Russia into Mongolia
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: and then crossed the northern tracks, and it was so
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: remote and it was just so beautiful to be dry.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: You drive for hours on this perfectly manicured grass almost
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: and then oh, here's a beautiful creek, let's camp here.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: And then and then the next morning the locals have
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: ridden up on their camel, their bactory and camel, or
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: or their horses or whatever, and they're interacting with you.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: It's a really special place.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: It really is. I was lucky enough through one of
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: my mates in Mongolia, we went out and visited. And
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: I actually didn't know this so that a lot of
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: the sheep aren't owned by the shepherds. I didn't know
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: that there's a real hierarchy of who owns the sheep
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: and the shepherds. I don't think there's a proper lease,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: but there's some sort of agreement as to where Parture
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: is going to move and as as the seasons go
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: up and down, as I can bring the lifestyle up
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: and down. Anyway, So story short is that we went
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: out to visit some of his friends who were the shepherds,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: and we stayed in the I mean, this is a
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: real family. This wasn't a toorious right, This is his
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: friends had just got close enough to where we were
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: that we could reach them in a Lancors. It was fabulous.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: And so this might sound a little bit odd, but anyway,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: so it's a big deal. I got to be the
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: guest of the day. And of course I speak no Mongol,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: and my friends they so fabulously they speak German, they
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: speak Russian, I know, sypathetic. So yeah, so it was
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: they just went out, grabbed one pool sheet and we
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: went from there to have a true Mongol feast. And
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: so then other shepherds come in from different places on
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: the little horses, and it was fabulous. If you again,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: why do you travel? Could you get to do that?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Those experiences they sear into your memories. I remember
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I was somewhere in northern Mongolia and I came across
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: this family and they had their gurr and everything, and
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: they offered me this fermented marriage Hare's milk, which I
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: was really grateful that they also gave me a vodka
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: shooter because that fermented Maryor's milk was rough. It was
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: like this chunky you know, I know it was terrible,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: you don't.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: That's one of those I.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Was wondering. I mean, I'm so glad I did it,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: but it didn't taste good.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: It was very special, and they tell me sensational hangout
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: cures that I have experienced that as a hangover cure.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: But stuff. And their little kids they can ride before
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: they can walk.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Oh they're amazing.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've never lost of skills. Yeah, never lost of skills.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: And here I was riding one of those horses, look
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: like a complete complete idiot, and these a little kids
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: just go.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're so so talented at it. I remember
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: when I was in in tom Tor along the Road
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of Bones in Russia, and that was actually one of
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the northernmost outposts of the Mongol Empire. And when the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Mongol Empire contracted, they stayed there. And so when you
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: go to that part of Russia. These are Mongolians that
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: are that are still living there, and they have a
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: lot of the Mongol trend, you know, traditions that you
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: can still see. So it's really neat to see how
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: far that empire expanded into Asia.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Oh they made it to Baghdad. I mean, they went
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: all over Europe. I mean, and I've been I get corrected.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: It is not Genghis Khan, it is Channgus.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: And it's yeah, yeah, we learned. We learned it the
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: wrong way, didn't we in our schools? Yeah? Well, and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: then you you recently did a trip that looked like
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: it was such a challenge in such a positive way,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: to crossing Kalamantan, and tell us, tell us about what
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: you did with that journey. How did it get brought about?
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Who did you do it with?
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Okay? No, really good. So I was I've been very
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: very fortunate. I mean again, I think there's one of
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: the great parts of international travel. You have mates all
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: over the world, right, right, And so a number of
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: years ago some friends of mine said, listen, we've were
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: thinking about doing a creator a trip east to west
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: following the equator across Kalamontan. Bodio and why are we
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: going to do it, they said, because it's been number
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: four said, well, now that sounds interesting. I'd love to go.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: If we can pull that together, that'd be terrific. And so,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: you know, fast forward a couple of years, because imagine it, right,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: you know, Indonesia is a very modern place and wonderful place,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: and you know you've got private land, you've got jungle jungle,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: you've got some agricultural land. All of that had to
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: be stitched together if we're going to keep the commitment
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: of one degree. And so that took a couple of years,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: just logistics, oh yeah, and permissions and you and your
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: truck and we had to cross logging, leases and stuff
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: like that, and they just don't let people in. You
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: can imagine how that would.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Those natural resources are well guarded, yeah.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Big time. I mean, there's a really good book and
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: it's called The Last wild Man of Borneo, Okay, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: it's a if someone would like to get a quick
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: glimpse of what Borneo is, it's that's a great book.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Good suggestion.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really good. And so so it gives you
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: a glimpse of how the competing mineral rights we have
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: environmental we have of course, you know, the logging, and
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: we have all the indigenous tribes and how does all
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: that work out on a relatively small area that was
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: once upon a time that owned that part of the world.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I mean that once by the time the Mahasa they
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: which is a language also but they ruled a lot
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: of Asia, in parts of China included, you know, and
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: so there's a lot of deep history there that it's
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: not often taught to us. And so anyway, so story
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: short is, yeah, so we literally winched ourselves across. Oh,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: it was excellent.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Every every picture you sent me was like Fi deep
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: or hip deep mud and a winch line exactly. Yeah,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: and what vehicles did you use for that?
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I had the only in this and night, so I
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: got a little miss and patrol. Shorty, I can't up myself,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: And so we shipped that vickl over to Chakata. Had
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: some friends there help us with some logistics there, which
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: is again it's that that that network community, you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: it's wonderful. So just inners he helped that couldn't get
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the tires that I wanted. I mean, why would anybody
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: be selling jungle tires in.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Bendariga are you trying to get or no, we didn't.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't necessarily want the six I've so we've got
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: the centipedees. I've had them before, and I've had the
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: jungle truck of twos before. But it's funny how things change, right,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Technology changes all the time. The centipedes didn't really have
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: enough real side bite. I mean, they're very, very good
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: for going straight, they are not terrific for climbing out
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the side of a hill. She's got to turn a
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: wheel too much. And we wanted to basically just it's
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: hard to say on air, but we wanted to sort
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: of climb sideways uphills.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Sure does that make sense because.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: There's no route all right, there's no lovely wheel tracks
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: to sit in and buy it isn't so.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: You needed that lateral grip, so it's gonna slow down exactly.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: And so now Indonesia's got a booming tire industry specializing
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: in jungle tires things like that.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: So just what did you end up using for the
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: tire brand? You remember, it's an Indonesian brand, Okay, And
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: it worked. We drove around on one completely flat tire
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: for two days. Just there was just no where to change.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: It just wasn't possible, and so.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: We'll include that in the show notes. The brand that, Yeah,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I'll do that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I probably couldn't pronounce the BEHSDA.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: We'll include it.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I will also include some pictures of Lance Winching and his
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Nissan Patrol.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: But again, it's the camaraderie, it's the you go. I
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: strongly believe that the jungle never actually wants to really leave.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: You know, it just is going to keep a party.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Yet it's going to.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Keep a party, and you and you start to go
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: into it, and you know, like we lit we left
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: the road and it was just a walking track and
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: that was it. There was and just we just kept
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: going and so it was you know, I really the
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: jungle never wants to really leave. But you've got to
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: work together with people, some people we'd never met before. Sure,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, you know, you're either winching
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: them down something sheer and they are one hundred depending
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: on you. And in a few hours or a few
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: days time. It took us best part of a month,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: a few hours a few days time. Your life literally
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: depends on them. They are winching you shear down. Who
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: knows what and if they don't know what they're doing,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: it could be not fabulous.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: What was the high point of that trip? What was
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: that one standout memory or or part of the adventure
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: that was so extreme that that it really was an earmarb.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Probably the canoes we arranged. One of the rivers was
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: just too high to winch across or drive across, and
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: so we were arranged for canoes. So we winched the
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: vehicles down onto canoes and the locals did a really
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: good job of it. They were just canoes and we
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: just put the vehicles unloaded, all the vehicles took call
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: a gear across to the other side. Then they paddled
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: the canoes across and then there was a sheer winch
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: straight up. And so actually that my kate fell the
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: back canoe it because we did at nighttime the exit
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: and so the back canoe it's sunk and so the
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: back of the back of my car went underwater. And
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: so it's those it's those moments that you go you
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: don't panic, don't worry, just do it by the numbers.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: You hit the winch, you got you've got good gear,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: You've put together the vehicle away it should be put
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: together and you trust the guy on the other side
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: of it, and you just what else you're gonna do.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: You're gonna sit there and screen. Nobody cares. I mean,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: it gets out, get yeah right, And we've still got
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: another two weeks of jungling to do yet, So it
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter what happens. And so I'd say it again
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: and again and again. You build your truck for that moment.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Don't build your truck for the moment when it's it's
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: so nice and sitting in that show room was so nice,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and sitting in the garage you can sit around and
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: talk about it. Don't build it for that, because that's
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: not where it matters.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, build it for getting out there and doing something interesting.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: At the worst possible time.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: So anyway, so that so you don't forget that one.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: That was a really good one. And on that same night,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: so now where some of our companions on one side
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: of the river, we're on the other side of the river,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: and we'd been camping in the jungle the whole time.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Blah blah blah, camp using hammocks or no no, no,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I again, it's a camarader it's kind of what you
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: do it for. So yeah, no, just two vehicles together,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: wind strap over the top, tighten the winch, and run
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: a tarp over it. Okay, And so it was all
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: bloke trip. There was no ladies on the trip. And
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: so yeah, we put four stretches underneath there. Stretches are
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: better flash flood up off the ground a little bit.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Sure, you can manage.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: The mosquitoes and snakes and whatever a little bit better
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: than too. And it's just a really good so very
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: very simple, very very simple, simple as good, simple as good,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: simple as good. Yeah, yeah, And so that's how we
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: slept anyway, So we've been wet for goodness as how long.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: And so then there was a mosque there and it's
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: just a really simple simple that there is no road
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: to this little village, nothing like that. And so there's
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: a very simple mosque there. And one of the fellows
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: said in Bahassa, if you don't speak Bahasa, you know,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: if you'd like to sleep in your mosk, you're welcome.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, are you sure, because I'm not Muslim?
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: And I said, look, a mosque is this is a
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: sign language. A mosque is a place of sanctuary. You're
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: most welcome. Poord Rain that night and I had the
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: most fabulous night.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Sleep and dry your feet out a little bit.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: And I guess some people may take an objection to that,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: but that's okay. I mean, because you're in somebody else's
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: country and when they offer you such a courtesy, that's
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: really stunning to me.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I agree, and you take advantage of that opportunity to
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: see that side of humanity.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: And people are just people, right, And at sunrise, you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: they had morning prayers and they you know, I tried
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: to stay to the corner and respectful and you don't
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: be you know, don't take your shoes inside and all.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: That's sort of sure. And it was Yeah, so you
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: asked me the two things are that? Yeah, they are
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: the two things.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome. And so it took you about a
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: month in total?
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Then yeah, yeah, it was gone for just a month.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: It's just a little over a month.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: What a memory that would be of having that experience
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: and what would you say, just kind of more on
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: the technical side of things with the vehicle, So you
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: had a short wheel based Nissan Patrol. What were maybe
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the top three modifications that you did to the vehicle
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: for that trip that really stood out in your mind
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: as making the difference.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: All right, So it's clearly a really good quality Wench
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: all right. Yeah, so I had put the WARMN eight
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: to seven four on it. My truck's twenty four vault
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: by choice, but I put a twelve vault matter on it.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: The reason is it goes fast with more chalk, and
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it's a really easy thing to do. So there's that
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: making sure that we could carry enough water being hydrated,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: it's dreadfully important. Of course, we try and avoid those
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: plastic bottles, you know, we could We can do our
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: little part right if we're in a position to put
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: in some decent sized water tanks and water filtrations, which
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: we can what wouldn't you right, uh, and then decent fielding.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: So we have the range here exactly.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: And so as far as modifications, I wouldn't say there's
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of modifications. We have a look at it
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: if you like. It's it's pretty basic and that's important,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: but it's I would class it as get addable.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: So we did burn out a Winch modo trying to
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: pull ourself out of something. And so now we're stark
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: right the back ARBs vehicle again is underwater, stuck. The
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: winch motor doesn't work anymore. There's no one to pull
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: us out because were the lead car at that point,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: and we're stuck stuck right now. Not only are we stark,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: nobody can get around us sure to do anything. All right,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: So now, all right problem And so when you pack
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: that winch motor, don't put it at the very back
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: where you've got to pull everything up. It's simple things
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: like that that you've really got to think about seriously.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: And so you don't, I mean, so think of the
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: things that you are really going to need at the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: worst postle scenario and put them where you can go.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've seen people do that with their medical kits.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: They'll put the medical kit in the very back of
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the drawer system or they'll have it under a pile
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: of Yeah, when you need it, you need it right away.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You mean in your if you've got Australia
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: or Senten console, what you should have there. In my
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: humble opinion, you should have plenty of those little sanitary
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: what do you call it wipes? For sure? What do
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: you call it?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Like a wet wave?
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Exactly, you should they should be there with band aids
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: sure should be those two things should be there all
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: the time. You should never have to go dig for
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: those because if you can deal with a simple particularly
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: in like a jungle environment, if you can deal with
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: that in the first couple of minutes, it's going to
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: make all the.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Difference in the world.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I remember one of your recent podcasts, you're talking about
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: getting you making sure your teeth and good Nick. That's
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: really smart that it sounds silly, but it's not. I mean,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: it's a case of if you're really humble, opinion, really traveling,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: that means you're going somewhere and you were not going
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: back to where it was that you were safe. You
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: were going to somewhere new now. And so don't if
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: you can avoid it, don't put yourself in a position
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: where you have to get to somewhere to be safe
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: or to be comfortable. And safe means different things to
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: different people. To me, it just means it shouldn't be
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: a forced march. There is no metal for being the
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: most miserable.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Look, I've got the whole way with no shoes or what,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and you buy some shoes, you know what I mean.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: It's not like that. So simple things that one can
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: prepare for themselves. So okay, so have this got really bad?
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: What is it they want at hand? It's some water,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: it's some food, so whatever bits and pieces you think
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: you might need. So that's it, So mad, I can't
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: I can't really say that there's a laundry list of
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: of things that we did to the vehicle outside of
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: being very purposeful on what the vehicle was designed to do.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And I think that might be the question you ask me,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: is what is it that we could do to make
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: it so it's going to fit our purpose?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: And that's what we could do, and you you know
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: it's it's the Nissan Patrol. In the times that I've
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: used them in Africa and in Australia, they're really exceptional vehicles.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Is that kind of your wagon of choice?
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to I've had a couple of patrols
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: and you know, spoil a little bit. I got on
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: this patrol Geky Patrol only because there was no other
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: one in the US that I could find. So that
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: to me, that makes most logical thing that I should do.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: And I've had them and I know them, yeah, and
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: they're pretty basic. You know, they're a little TD for
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: four point two a littter diesel motified, big gearbox, just brakes,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: four coils, so they're no powerhouse, but.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: It's but they work. They're really tough.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, they're tough.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: On that trip we tore out all of the brake lines,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: just all the vines, just destroy the brake lines. So
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: we did most of the trip with no brakes. But
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: it's got a really good transmission handbrake.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I think again some redundancies that were built into those
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: things a long time ago that you can take advantage of.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're really robust. In fact, I remember when I
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: was crossing one of the big glaciers in Iceland, we
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: were using some seventy series land Cruisers and to make
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: them robust enough to take the forty four inch tall tires,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: they actually put knee on patrol axles underneath the land cruiser. Yeah.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: In the when we was do off road racing the
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Winch Challenges, which are very very similar to the Camel Trophy,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: but under a stopwatch is that we would get to
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: say seventy five series Lankers and cut the axles out
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: of it and putting this in patrol under it. Because
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: the seventy five has a really good vision. The patrol
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: loses a little bit. It's got a big bonnet, so
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: if you if you're going vertical, it's really hard to see.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Sure with the seventy five is much better. So that
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: was a common thing that we do. Yeah, take out
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: the seventy five axles, put Patrol GQA gu under it.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Now you've been involved with the Rainforest Challenge for years?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Have you Have you competed in that event or your time?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: And how did that go?
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Well, actually that's how I met Michelle, So I met
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: my wife. So yeah, I guess that makes sense. So yeah,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I met Michelle and the Rainforest Shell and she was
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: competing in ice compete.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Oh cool, Yeah, yeah, and what year was that?
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: That was in ninety seven?
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah. That event definitely got a lot of international
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: attention at several points because it was so extreme, and
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: there were even some American teams that they went over
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: and tried to be competitive. There was a it was
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: an Eddie Angel out of out of Alaska, Alaska. Yeah,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I met him a few times. Interesting guy, and I
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: know that a lot of them tried to be competitive. Now,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: did you ever do the the Outback challenge in Australia certainly.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah that was as well. That was good.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: But things have seasons, didn't they.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do, and those have changed for sure.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: It's the way vehicles, all right. I think sometimes Australia, Indonesia,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Malaysia to a point has a slot in Africa. South
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Africa for sure has a slight advantage when it comes
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: to building overland vehicles because they use them all the time.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: They do in really difficult situations. They may not be
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: the prettiest, but they're going to get you there and
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: get you going and that counts.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, There's there's certain amount of practicality that I've seen
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: in the in the Australian and the South African vehicle
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: projects because they really do need them to work in
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. So you don't see as many
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: high performance modifications. You see more durability focused modification.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, they may not be the prettiest,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: but it sure beats a first class walk. Yeah, that's
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: and that's your next option.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Well, and with all of your travels and the fact
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: that you grew up in Australia and and which is
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: where the term overlanding actually originated in many ways, what
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: what does overlanding mean to you as a traveler.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure it's got to be necessarily. It
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: absolutely is not the biggest will will it wins? It
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: is absolutely not in my humble opinion, that I'm driving
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: around in something and and you're side of your I'm
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: doing a lot of umi here.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: For me.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: A couple of things I tried to maybe I could
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: give you an example. Sure, So we were in Senegal
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: in our one of our trucks. We're in Senegal, and
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: so there's a place in Sanegal where they it's a
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: habitat for pink flamingos, and so we want to go
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: there anyway, So it was again very remote, but Africa's
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: a lot of people live in Africa, sure, and so
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: so anyway, so wherever you stop, you're going to see
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: a ton of people. So we're driving through this reserve.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I guess we'd call it. And this guy stopped and
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't. We didn't know anybody was getting dark, and
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: we hadn't figured out where we're going to stay yet
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: because a couple of places we were going to stop
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: it just didn't feel right, so we went to somewhere
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: else anyway, and there was a ferry that was going
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: to close soon, and we're trying to decide should we
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: keep going that night, catch that ferry and go into
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: the Gambia and stay in the Gambia or what we're
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: going to do we didn't know. So anyway, so we
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: got to this reserve and this guy stepped out and
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: had a sort of a uniform one which, as you
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: know you've been in Africa, that could mean anything. And
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: he's and through broken French. It was the toll is
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: one hundred euro. One hundred euro in sanegl there's a
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: lot of money, and I thought, it's a lot of money,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: you know, And I thought, and I said, that doesn't
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: seem right. It felt this guy's really having to go
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: at us. And we kept trying to communicate, communicate, and
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: he went off and he got his boss, who was
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: he was the real deal, and he come back. He
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: spoke great English, and I felt terrible because that and
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I've not forgotten because that guy, he was just trying
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: to look after the filming goes and the toll was
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: one hundred euro, right, And here I was My first thought,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: were this guy's just trying to rit MI off? Because
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I had a preconceived idea of what should happen, and
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I was wrong. And I felt so bad for that
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: guy because, for one, he stood his ground, which I
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: really respected very respectfully, that I could see the anger
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: in him, because he could see that I was putting
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: him in a box at and I was one hundred
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: percent wrong. And I wish I could have enough French
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: to say, I apologize, I'm so sorry. And so to
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: answer your question, what is overlanding for me, it is
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: getting out of you can say comfort zone, but just
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: for one moment, living in somebody else's shoes. You, I mean,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: you've driven through some amazing places yourself. Would I be
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: able to even survive or even thrive and feed a
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: family with what those people could do more often not
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: a chance. I'd starve and die. Yeah, but you know
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: what I mean, to have a to have a moment
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: that's to me, that is everything.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I had a similar experience in Uganda. I met I
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: met a woman and she was trying to get her
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: kids to the next town to go to school, which
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: was eighteen kilometers away, and I spent a little bit
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: of time in their village and I at the end
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: of the day, I had this realization that on the
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: day that I work my hardest in my life, I
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: will not work as hard as she does every single day.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: It's a humbling, Yeah, it's a humbling. It was a
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: real realization for me.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so things of that really matter. I mean,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: you know, we we were in drive around Malaysia in
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: one of our trucks, having a wonderful time, and one
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: of our friends said, come back to come back to
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: my town, my place for dinner. Yes, please, love Malasian
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: foot and so he's got a love a little eighty
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: series cruiser and we were I was flat out keeping
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: up with him and he's influence for the back of
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: the little town. It was really quite fun anyway. So
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: and I thought to myself, if the truck I had
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: was any bigger, I'd be missing out on.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Dinner right now, right, you know what I mean.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: So there's there's two opposites. So what is overlanding to me?
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: It is being in a position to put yourself in
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: someone else's shoes for just a little while.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: And that I love that. I love that idea. I
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: like that definition in a way because it it gives
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: us something to aspire to, is to experience something unique
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: from our own culture, something different from our own life,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: and we probably learn a lot more about ourselves in
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: that way.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Oh well, I know I do. Yeah, And and maybe
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: maybe we earn a glimmer of respect from the from
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the people's country that we're guests in. Sometimes these forget
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: that were guess in somebody else's country and go catchure
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: a local bus. Don't go get on the fancy one.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Just go figure out the local one. You'll have a
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: completely different trip, totally different. Michelle and I did that
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: in Vietnam. We just figured out the transit system.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: They call them a chicken bus for a reason. There's
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: a chicken and goat, goats and everything on there.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: It's just wonderful. It is wonderful on the people you meet,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: you know, and that's great. I mean, Laos and Cambodia pushbikes,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: local transport, fantastic. Just couldn't recommend it enough. Have you
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: been the Laos?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: No, I haven't. I'd love to go. Yeah, I haven't
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: spent enough time in Southeast Asia, so I need to
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: do that. Matt has, but I haven't.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's relatively relatively easy from Australia. I mean I've
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: spent no time in South America.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Which I really really really want to do.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: From Australia, it's just a long long way away. It
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: is that Asia, you know, it's much easier. So anyway,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: it's good fun.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I love your definition. Thank you for sharing that lance.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: That's very cool. Well, one of the things that you
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: do is is run earth Cruiser, which makes expedition campers
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: that are designed to travel around the world. Within the
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: context of someone that's listening that's interested in buying a camper,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: what do you what do you think are some of
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: the most important things for them to consider? Again, if
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: their intention is to go see the world by a vehicle,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: by a camper, what would you have them look for?
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Well, who's I'm going to assume the we is a
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: husband and wife.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, sure, I'll be common right, yeah.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: And so then the world's big place. But for wherever
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: you want to go, I would really work hard.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: The liveability.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Liveability is could I change a time?
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Livability is you know, if I had to be in
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: this vehicle for a long period of time, is there
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: enough separation to make there isn't make sure there isn't
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: a major separation. We all need our personal space. If
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: you're going to trouble with a group or as individuals,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: you'll either way, you'll catch up and you will meet
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: people and you may or may not want to invite
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: them into your what is now your home. And it's
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: funny how vehicles have a way of latching onto us,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: isn't it they personality? They do?
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: They really do?
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: So ask yourself, has this thing got the personality that
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for? An ultimate question? I really think, is
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: am I going to serve it? Or is it going
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: to serve me? My meaning is that am I? Am
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I at a level in my own self where am
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: I always going to be worried about this? Or am
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be No? This is okay. I can
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: park it wherever I want to park it. I can
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: get into tons of details about how things put together,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: But really, who's going to be in charge here? Am I?
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Am I going to be the one always worried about
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: this thing? Because if that's the case.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I think, buy a different thing here.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: It's not working for you? Whatever that is? Sure, you know,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: and that's a personal thing to everybody, and that's that's
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: all there is to that. But to me, it is
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: really it's the livability. Who's if you're if you want
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: to go out and see if you can make vehicle ABC.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: You know, I get around the world, great, knock yourself out.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: But if you want to go out there and go
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I want to go and see an experience as much
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: as I can, you shouldn't be worried about it from well.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: And that's interesting because when we interviewed Dan Grek, that
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: was one of the things that we asked him, which
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: was what was next for his vehicle, and he says,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I need more inside space, I need more livability while
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: he's living on the road. And that also came up
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: with Graham Bell, who is another family that's spent ten
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: years traveling around the world. Fabulous Yeah, and a Defender.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: He's amazing, amazing family, him and Luisa, and I asked him,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: you know, what was the most significant modification to his
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Defender and he says it was when I put a
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: camper on the back of it. So it's it does
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: seem to be a consistent thread that those that are
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: traveling long term around the world, maybe they start with
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: something like a wagon, but they realize relatively quickly that
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: for them to be able to continue to travel around
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: the world and live on live on the road. They
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: need to have a place to retreat to, a place
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: to live again.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: It's not a forced march. There's no badge for being miserable.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Right, it just isn't. I'm sorry.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: I mean people want to talk about the war stories,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: and yeah, that's there's so much more to it than that.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: There really is, and the war stories don't really come
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: along that often, right They Most of it is that
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: you you took it a beautiful hike that day, or
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: you interacted with some locals at a market. These are
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: this You're living your life just like you would in Bend, Oregon,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: where we're at now. It's just that they speak a
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: different language, right, So yeah, so to mean so yeah, no,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I like that. I like that idea of making sure
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: that it's livable for what you need and what your
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: partner needs, that.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: That's at that moment in time.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it can change.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: It changes. It's fun, isn't it. Things always change, but
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: we're surprised and disappointed when it does.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So true. And I think about campers for international
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: travel because oftentimes people do aspire towards that. That is
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: definitely something that we see our community aspiring towards is buying,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: whether it's a full sized truck and fitting a camper
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: to it or buying a complete camper unit. And if
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you're considering a domestic travel then you want something that
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: is domestically available and can be domestically serviced and meets
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: the needs like, for example, in North America, something that
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: can travel at seventy five miles an hour down the road,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: which of course your campers do as well. But one
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: of the things that I think once you start to
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: consider international travel, there are some attributes that I look
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: for in a camper. First of all, can I put
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: it in a container? And that's because there are many
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: places in the world where roll on roll off is
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: not available, and you with roll on roll off you
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: have a diminished level of security with around your personal effects.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Even though I've not had any issues with roll on
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: roll off myself, but you hear the horror stories of
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: people having issues with roll on roll off. So I
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: think that if I was looking for an international camper,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: it would be can I fit it in a container
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: so it can be secure and shipped out of Magadan
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: as much as it can be, you know, out of
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Montevideo or wherever, and that seems to be very effective.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: And then also can can the vehicle be serviced in
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: those countries and can it consume the local fuels? And
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: that leads me to a question about some recent drive
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: train changes that you did with your campers, where you've
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: gone to a gasoline V eight. Kind of share some
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: of the fullawlosophy behind that decision and why you're using
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: a gasoline motor now instead of a diesel.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Sure, can I just talk about the containerization of course?
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: So yes, So we make a couple of different varieties.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: One's called the XP and that goes into a container,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: takes about fifteen minutes to do it, and so yes,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: we've done that many times. It is very nice having
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: your own stuff. It's there. We put our dry goods,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: our clothes, et cetera. It's all in the truck, and
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: so when we pick it up, it's there. And you've
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: already got a million things going on. Did I leave
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: the fridge on at home? Did I leave the iron on?
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: You know? I mean, did I cancel the newspaper? You've
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: already got a million things going on. So the more
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: you can mitigate that, the better off you. Ain't have
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: a better time faster. And so also with the containerization,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: we don't ever pick the vehicle up from the port.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: We never do that, whereas if you've got row road
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: typically you have to.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: You have to.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: The reason that we another reason why containerization may not
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: make obvious sense is that we we we have agreements
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: with shipping companies because we do enough of it. But
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: you always picked the vehicle up from a bond store.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: A bond store is the equivalent of the wharf, but
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: it's not run by the government. Why that's important is
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: if you're not breaking any rules, so you're not we're
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: not doing anything wrong. Is that the wharf is typically
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: a government And so when if you've got a right
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: or a left and drive vehicle and you're the wrong country,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: you could you could have that guy who's now responsible
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: for you driving off the wharf. He's saying, I'm sorry,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to get a permit for it
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: before this leaves a whof Yeah, sure, that can ruin
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: your day right there, and it just depends on the day.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Who have that guy's mood?
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Seriously, Yeah, no, I remember the first the first time
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: that I shipped vehicles back from the Dairy and Gap.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: When we went to the Dairy and Gap and we
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: were in Panama, and I decided I was going to
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: do it all myself because I wanted to learn how
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: it all worked out. That was the last time I
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: ever did it after that. You use a customs broker
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: and you do you take delivery of the container out
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: of the port in a in a port bonded facility
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: and then you can cut the lock off yourself. You
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: open it up and they always have some people there
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: to support you. And when it makes such a huge difference.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: That's a difference because you're right, so at the bond
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: store there is no federal government person because it's already
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: been cleared by customs and so yeah, so you can
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: literally drive it out of that yard or workshop whatever
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: it is, and you're anyway. That's a big deal.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, it does make difference.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: That's a big deal from moving vehicles over to Malaysia
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: and stuff getting caught at the port is not pleasant.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: So that's the sad thing about that's ginorization. That's great
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: and so yeah, So as far as what's happening in
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: our big wide world right now, it's just reality. It's
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: run by economics. If we like at tonight ultral isle fuel.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: We know about that. So some big things that happen
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: now that ships are now going to have to be
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: quite to use your ste diesel. The diesel engines we
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: have now are not the diesel engines. We excuse me,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: we fell in love with things change. Sure, it makes
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: no sense whatsoever for large organizations to spend money on
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: getting those diesels even more compliant, which and missed the
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: boat on electric. That's just economic suicide. And so the
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: internals of the diesel engines are still very very good.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: It's all the emission systems go on the outside to
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: make them difficult. And the decision was taken by Fuzo,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: who's owned by Mercedes, which is Gameler, the ones who
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: invented the diesel engine, to discontinue them. Sure, and so
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: that's what's happened. And so for the foreseeable future, Yeah,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: we'll be running around on gasoline, which is incredible.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: And gasoline, I mean people oftentimes think that that diesel
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: is the most ubiquitous fuel in the world. That's not
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: been my experience, because every little village has filled with
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: motorcycles and motorcycles don't run on diesel. They run a gasoline.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: And I've been able to find gasoline everywhere in the world,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: even crossing the Silk Road, which I did in the
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Suzuki Jimney. It was a gasoline motor. I never once
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: had issue finding gasoline.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly what I mean. You know there's plus monus to everything.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Of course, you know you don't get the range. Sorry,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: you don't get the density of fuel understood, We get
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: all that.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: A little bit of difference in the safety of the
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: fuel for storage and everything else.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: One is known as a combustible elements flambel. Yeah, one's explosive.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: One's a flamble, right, So we get all that. The
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: emission rules didn't disappear. I mean, it's still incredibly strict
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: which we have to adhere to, which is fine. We
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: can we can handle all that. But again let's go
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: back to the liverability part of it. Do you want
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: to be able to ensure this thing? Do you want
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: to be able to get this thing serviced? So you
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: wanted to be such a hodgepodge as you don't know
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: what you actually got. That's nonsense. You don't want that,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: and so having it legal safe reliable please.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, It's just I look forward to to driving
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: it seeing how it does. We'll talk about that at
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: a future podcast, I'm sure. Yeah, absolutely, Well, that's it's
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: exciting to see what you guys have done throughout the
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: years with an emphasis on international travel. And oftentimes when
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I look for a camp or image in the middle
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: of the road of bones, it's oftentimes an Earth Cruiser
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: because it just seems that those vehicles have been adopted
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: by international travelers as something that's very suitable, and I
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: believe it a lot of that comes from the fact
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: that the FUSO is an international platform. It's just like
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: a land cruiser. Around the world, they use medium duty
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: trucks and the FUSO is oftentimes the one that they
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: use for that.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again, livability, right, simple things. You know,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: if you smash a land smash your windscreen, you can
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: put some plastic up, But are you going to get
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: a good night sleep?
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no you're not.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: You're going to be worried about it all night, right,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: So those liveability it's those things that count to us.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: You know, if you get a flat ty, can you
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: easily get it fixed? Yes?
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Please?
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: You know, stuff with that and so important.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: You're so right about windshields. People do not think about
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: that when they want to take this really obscure vehicle
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: and drive it around the world. Where are you going
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: to get a windscreen for it? And the reality is
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: once you get into the developing world, rock chips and
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: everything else that comes with it, photo or a or
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: a branch or a piece of pipe that comes out
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: of a building, any number of things that's going to
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: smash a windshield. It happens all of the time. So
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: being able to replace a windshield is a big deal.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: As an example. I like to use a windshield screen
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: windshield as an example because shipping them is really hard.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Some people just won't do it.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because they're so hard to get arrive in
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: one piece exactly.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: They will not take the responsibility for it. Yeah, And
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: so that can ruin your trip. And again it's not
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: supposed to be a misery. You've got better things to
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: do the worry about stuff like that.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Well, you've spent a lot of time in Australia and
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: with Australian manufacturers, and you've used a lot of Australian
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: trailers and campers. What do you think what do you
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: think Australian manufacturing and an Australian mindset brings to something
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: like a camper that's unique. What are some of the
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: attributes of Australian manufacturing and design that you think adds.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: To Well, I think so typical Australia, we get four
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: to five weeks holiday year, which is unheard.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Of in a lot of places, especially here.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, and so that actually has a big influence
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: on the product because if you're going to be traveling
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: around the world or traveling around Autralia, were just going
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: to Phraser roll on for two weeks, that camp is
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: going to be sat on your favorite fishing spot on
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: the beach for the next two weeks, and so you're
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: going to get a lot of customer feedback, right, that
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: counts right, Yeah, that's a big thing. You know, Mum
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: and dad, kids that the mates come over me and
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. So you're going to so
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: the manufacturers have a very good direct line to what
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: works one doesn't. And you've been to the Caravan and
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Camping show in Brisbane. Brisbane's rough million people and the
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: show is eighty five thousand people show up.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: It is packed.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's normal, right, and then it's on every year.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: And so it's such a big industry for such a
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: small economy. I mean more people live in Los Angeles
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: and live in Australia. So you know, camping is a hre.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: It's just ingrained. Everybody does it, I think pretty much everybody.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Everybody I know, so so I think part of the
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: get right part is just really very trust me and
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: it can be direct customer feedback about what's good and
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: what's not, and that will filter down into the tiny
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: little details of about maybe it's the water part, maybe
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: it's the fridge. It's not the fridge itself, but it's
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: the little screws that the fridge manufacturer screw the fridge
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: together with is going to get paid attention to, you know,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: it's that tiny little detail. So you've got this great
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: inverted that makes five million, what's hey, that's terrific. But
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: if it falls to pieces as you're crossing the canning
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Stock group, I don't care. You know, it's a piece
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: of garbage, you know.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: And if there's anything in the world that will cause
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: a vehicle to come apart of the seams, it's Australian corrugations.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Gay, don't they.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: That's incorrect. Has has one of your trucks been across
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: the Canning Stock number of them? Ah, that's cool. That's
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: such an amazing route. I mean it's it's uh. I
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: think it's close to three thousand kilometers across, maybe even
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: a little bit more than that. I really enjoyed it.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: I mean all of those sand dunes and the just
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: the the little water water holes you find, it was
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: just unbelievable beautiful.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've spent gone to the Simpson to Housie Springs.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: That I haven't done that. No, it's not that.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: It's really really nice. Yeah, it's anyway. So I think
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: so for the Australian manufacturers, they get that advantage. And
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: you can't beat experience. You just cannot. You know, you
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: you can't fake experience either you have it or you
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: don't know. And you can have the best engineers in
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: the world, you can have the best, it's not going
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: to help you. You know, You've got to spend the time.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: You just have to.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: You've got to know what it's like you and that's
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: that's I think the real advantage. So if you want
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: to flip that in the opposite way, A huge disadvantage
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: that Australian manufacturers have, in my humble opinion, is that
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: we don't go camping in the snow for two or
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: three weeks at a time. We don't do that. We
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: might go skiing, but that might be able to be
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: one of two days. Anybody can get away with one
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: two days, and so that to me has been interesting.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Do you you've seen some of the products come from Australia.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of outdoor living space which would last
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: thirty seconds in a big snowstorm.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Or even a lot of rain. I mean, Australia just
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't get a lot of rain.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: And well the nor that can, but that typically we
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: wouldn't go. We would go somewhere.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Else because we can different direction, you know, and.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of options there. And so I think
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: I think those are a couple of really important things.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: You know, the infrastructure is not necessarily there. I mean
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: the United States just such fabulous infrastructure when it comes
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: to camping, you know, that just does. I mean the
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: beautiful lakes and stuff was just gorgeous and a lot
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: of that doesn't exist in Australia. That so the vehicles
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: must by design be more self sufficient because you may
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: not know we're going to get your next lot of water.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Things like that. Yeah, they wouldn't typically and this is
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: not this is not a black and white thing, but typically,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: you know, we wouldn't spend a lot of time insulating
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: water tanks. I mean, none of the earth cruisers we
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: built in Australia have insulated water tanks, not one of them,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: because what we don't need it, you know, So why
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: would you carry that if you're not careful that can
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: be of a problem than to help because of the
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: spin effects and gets caught up inside some of those
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: things and grief and so it's like I said, you
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: just got to have the experience. Have you ever seen
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: a vehicle burn to the ground for spinifex? It takes
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: not very long.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I've seen the carcasses like on the canning stock for example,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: but I've Yeah, fortunately I've not had one of my
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: own vehicles burned down, but that'd be so scary.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: And it happens like that, Yeah, incredible, And so it's
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: all of that sort of stuff. I mean, the way
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: the bash plates are made, the way you little cubbies
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: aren't made for things like spinofex. Baska get caught here.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: If you drive around on Spinifex grass the same. But
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: if you if you drive too much off road here,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: off off road here, you get in trouble. In Australia,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: well you can because there's not a lot of roads,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: you know, and so often that's what happens.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember on the Canning Stock we had to
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: have those special radiator guards because it was just it
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: was days of driving in Spinifex. It was incredible, It
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: was incredible.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Got a it's very early. Yeah, you go there. Wow,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: So you can actually melt that down and you can
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: fix your Jerry cancer stuff with it. Seriously, it goes
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: as hard as.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's fascinating. When when you look at your library
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: at home or your bookshelf at home, what are some
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: of your favorite books that you you would recommend that
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: a fellow traveler read.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Oh what a fabulous question. Oh that question. This one
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: was probably a little obscure. I like that, and it
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: is don't split the difference by Sorry, I can't think
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: that was his name, will come to me. This guy
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: was a hostage negotiator for the FBI. Okay, and that
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: might seem like what are you talking about? But it
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: was really just about dealing with people and prow to
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: get and this guy worked all over the world, well
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: in the Middle East and whatever. And the book revolves
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: a lot about understanding what's really going on in that conversation.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: What do people really need?
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Really when someone says something, what did they really actually say?
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: And I've read a number of times now, and we
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: were got a tiny little bit of trouble. You've got
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: time for a very quick story. Yeah, let's do it,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: all right, very quick story. We're in the Sahara and
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: we just cross the Sahara. Are parts of the Aura?
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Sorr speaks anyway, and Michelle said, go that way. I
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: blame her. It's not her fault, it's mind fault. She said,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: go that way. So I went that way and got stuck.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: All right, So in this in in our ec I
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: got stuck. It took me twenty four hours to extract it.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: And anyway, so then I've got an extra we went
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: to and that's why I got extracted. But we thought
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: and I wasn't sure I was actually gonna get it
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: out and says, no, there's nothing I mean we are
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: talking to there. Sure nothing I did that I've pulled out.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: I've extracted a few vehicles, and I would say this
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: is probably the hardest one I've ever done. It wouldn't
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: matter what the vehicle was, because there's just nothing nothing.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: You're familiar with maxtracts, I'm sure sure, So one wheel turn,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: one will turn the max tracks. You could watch them
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: spear underneath the sand and you'd see a little like
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: a little wave. They would and I have to and
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: they go down maybe two or three feet underneath the sand.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: The sand was so fine when you walked and went
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: to your knees and I just come over the top
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: of the sand dune because we've been in the sand
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Nguines for a week, come out of the top of
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: the sand jine, come straight down. The truck sided to
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: go sideways, so it was right hand and just nailed
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: it to get it to go straight again, and it
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: just suck straight down straight straight to the Jazi rals
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: and there was nothing around anyway, right, and it was
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: getting it early afternoon, so anyways, because it's cool then,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: so I thought I will pull it out now, and
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: that's when we discovered what was happening with the maxtracks.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: So the little tether just snapped because they call it
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: fish fish or something like that, and it's basically sand water.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: It's just so fine. I'm not kidding. There's still two
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Maxtracks sitting somewhere there. I could never find them again.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: And they just it was like they're going through water.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: True story. And never seen anything like forre my life ever.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, all over my island Fraser blahah blah blah,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: crosslh blah blah done all that. Nothing prepared me for
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: that anyway. So story short, we had a SAT phone
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: with us. We're there now twenty plus hours trying to
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: extract this thing. I thought this, you know, we were
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: still having nice meal, we're everything. Oh that was great.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Living inside, that was terrific. But I was thinking to myself, SLF,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: this is not fabulous. And so we had a SAT
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: phone and we started to ring to see if someone
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: might be able to just be on the other side
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: of that scend in June so I could winch my
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: way out. I'd be out in five seconds. So we
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: found someone and they said kind of weird in a
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: weird way, Yeah, we'll meet you. They never did. We
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: got ourself out. Long story short. Now now we've been
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: now so full twenty four hours, stayed at this little,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: tiny little town somewhere and went to the Johndarmrie because
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: we didn't know where we were. Just we just need
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: to put everything back and get sorted, you know. Anyway,
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: so we stopped the John Donery and they were great,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: you know, the military place. They let us in a
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: big deal, no nothing special, sliding door closed behind us,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: and we picked the truck in the air capap three
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning. It was the Muchadin. They said,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: you owe us some money. They had went into the
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: John Darnbirie closed the door behind us so we couldn't
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: get out. Wow, And that was an interesting conversation. And
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: so they there crazy, crazy amount of money and we said,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to do that. And so you talk
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: about negotiating skills under pressure, I mean we didn't have
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: thousands of euro sure, And it was it was a
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: fabulous experience because as through broken English and French, what
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: they really wanted to do was that the way they
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: earn and provide food for their family is by not
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: by shaking people down, is by rescuing people. They just
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: thought they could be there in two or three days
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: because I I mean, nothing nothing to them, and once
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: they because they didn't expect us to get out, so
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. We're just we'll get there when we
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: get there. They got there, we were gone, and went, well,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: this is no good. Everybody knows everybody you're not going
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: to hide in a place like that. And so it
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: was no time at all they found where we are.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: We weren't you, No, we weren't trying to hide. We
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: just didn't know where we were going to do next.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: And so stiry short was that once we understood what
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: is it you really want? It was one hundred euro
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: or something, which we asked for the service, they didn't
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: presided that wasn't the point. The point was that we
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: were guests in their country and they absolutely would have
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: provided the service, sure, but just not on our time frame.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: And who's false that, right?
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: It was great, love it and so that's so that's
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: and no, har I'm done. Left as friends. All terrific.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: But you can see how quickly that could go berserk,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: right if you've got half a dozen fellas in the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: normal gear. None of them looked happy. They were mad
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: because they had been looking for us, and yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: your bluey eyed what the heck's going on? Stuff like that,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: you know. So it's a skill set, right, And that's
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: why I like that book is that it was if you,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: if you want to go do something you've never done,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: if you if you want to to do things differently,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to do things differently, right, You're
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: going to have to learn different skills. And so that book,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's fabulous because it gives a moment of
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I never would have thought of it that way, you
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense totally? And I think that's one
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: of the things that I love about travel so much,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: is that I am perpetually a student because because every place,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: every place that I go to, I don't know the language,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know their culture, I don't know anything. I'm
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: completely clueless. But I'm open minded to learning. And I
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: think that that's I think that's one of the things
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: about travel that appeals to me so much, as I
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: get to be a student all the time.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: And it's wonderful. It is wonderful, that's so true, and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: I just have such a great respect for the people.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Well, that's a great book suggestion. We'll add that to
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: the show. Note what about yourself.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Come on, you know I get off free.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: What do you got? Well, I've been I've been reading
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: a couple of great books. One of the ones that
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: I've been reading a little bit more from the Stoics,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: and I like that. And given the timeframe that we're
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: in right now, a book that I've been reading the
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: last couple of weeks is called The Obstacle is the Way,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: and it does talk a lot about during the Roman Empire,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: there was actually a plague as well, and the plague
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: lasted for fifteen years and entire legions of Roman soldiers
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: were consumed by it. And it's just a great book
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: that discusses that the challenges that we experience in our
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: life were not special. We don't deserve, we don't deserve
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: to have a care free life. That life includes challenge,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: and it's all about how we look at the challenges
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: from perspective of we've got to get through it, we've
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: got to figure it out. And I think now, at
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: least in the modern age, now is a time for challenge,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: and it's how we approach those challenges and how we
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: overcome them, and the attitude that we carry through that
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: and the things that we learn about ourselves instead of
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: being woe is me? Or I deserve I deserve something.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: We don't deserve anything. Yeah, So how we approach those
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: challenges I think teaches us a lot. So it's been
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: a good book.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I enjoy it. Yeah, I'd enjoy that too. We
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: didn't get to choose where.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: We were born. Yeah, right, you know what I mean.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I I am. I'm very grateful, veriably grateful.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: And I've got one last question for you. But if
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: if someone was wanting to get into overlanding, and they
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: came up to you at a at an overland expo,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: and there they're wide eyed and and they see this
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: experienced traveler, what would be the first piece of advice
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: that you would give someone that said, Hey, I'd love
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: to get started with overlanding. What should I do first?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: What would be your first piece of advice?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Be confident in your motivation. I mean it's not airplanes
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: fly every well right now, not all the time, but
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: typically airplanes fly all the time, right, So be confident
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: in your motivation.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Are you going to be the next fabulous blogger? Are
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: you going to be the next wonderful contributor to the journal,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: what is it that you really want to get out
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: of it? You know, start from there and work backwards
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: from there, and then it'll be about vehicles about where
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: I go, it's going to be all, well, what what
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: are you hoping to get out of this?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Being authentic to yourself? Yeah, Yeah, that's good, good advice,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: because I think people they see a vision of maybe
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: a certain type of vehicle or the way that someone travels,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: and they want to emulate that, and maybe they miss
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: the mark because they haven't really decided what they want
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: to get out of it themselves.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: I strongly believe life isn't a rehearsal, and so you know,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: things happen that if we can do the very best
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: we can to arm ourselves for the best education we can,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: we're a long way ahead.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: And I could talk for hours about vehicles and all
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: the rest of it. And that's great. I mean, I
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: love some trouble, but really, I mean, how many times
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: you said around a campfire with someone who's just it's
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: just really real? Yeah, And it's great, isn't it? Just
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: learn so much and you know, when the lights go
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: out for the last time, you want to go.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: That was good? Yeah, so true. Well, Lance, thank you
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: so much. Thank you. I enjoyed enjoyed talking with you today.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: I learned a lot myself and and I think that
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: that is a lesson that comes out of this podcast
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: is for us to all have that mindset of a student,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: so that way we can learn about how to be
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: better travelers and we can learn a little bit about
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: those places that we visit around the world. And I
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: really appreciate your time, Lance and your your generosity with
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: your time here in beautiful Bend, Oregon. Yeah, it's not
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: bad at all. And we'll include a bunch of information
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: about the Earth Cruisers in the show notes if someone
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: wants to find out some more about what Lance and
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: his amazing team produces here in Bend, Oregon, and will
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: include some information about his patrol and where he's traveled
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: in the world, and some links to the books that
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: we've referenced as well. And we thank you all for
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: listening and we will talk to you next time.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Mite really appreciate it.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: You're welcome.