Latest / Provoke & Inspire Podcast / Episode 492: Kat Von D, Pharisees, and Hidden Hypocrisy

Transcript

Episode 492: Kat Von D, Pharisees, and Hidden Hypocrisy · Provoke & Inspire Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Going before the Lord and crying out to him and bringing everything I had before him.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: That set me on a course that literally to this day has continued.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: That was maybe the most revolutionary knowledge-to-action transformation that has taken place in my life and I think how much more would I have grown spiritually or would I grow spiritually if other transitions like that took place.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: But it took doing what I knew, not simply knowing more of what I already knew.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: You're listening to the Provoke and Inspire podcast.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone, welcome to the Provoke and Inspire podcast.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Now, as I'm looking at my camera, it looks slanty, so either my head is crooked, and this has applied the perfect correction, or I'm slanty, so I don't know what to make of that fellas.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: But welcome David, welcome Chad.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: What's up?
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Good to be here.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: It's my imagination.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: It kind of looks like a beam is coming off of Chad's forehead.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Didn't we talk about this in pre-production?
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: You were going to make forehead jokes once every four episodes just to maintain sanity among the listenership.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: That's just how you know that the sun is shining in Nashville, Tennessee.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Well, but the real question is what is the source of light?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Or should we say, whom is the source of light?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Is it coming from Chad or is it coming to Chad?
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: These are the questions that haunt our modern times.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Provoke and Inspire is an official Stiger International podcast.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Stiger is a worldwide missions organization that mobilizes followers of Jesus to reach young people.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Would not walk into a church.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: For more information, resources and how to get involved, you can go to Stigerorg.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: We just had our Stiger online intensive and it was awesome and if you participated, thank you.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: We are considering doing that more.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for participating.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: You shall get a participation trophy, post-haste delivered by Courier Pigeon.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: We are considering doing more of those because it really is a way to get introduced to some of our people our core training and for you to take that next step into the mission.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: So who knows what 2024 has in store, but we will advertise more of that as it comes out.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: But we want you to get involved.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: So, as we promote things on this show related to Stiger, perk them ears up and take that step.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Perk them ears up.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: We're going to start with David's random story, which is a concoction of wacky tunes and tales from the life and mind of David.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Then we're going to do Punching Through the Awkward.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Right, chad Punching, yes, all right, we're going to be Punching Through the Awkward.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Then we're going to cover our main topic, which is going to be focusing on Catherine von Druckenberg, otherwise known as Kat Von D.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: She's a I guess you could call her a tattoo influencer to the tune of 9.5 million followers on Instagram.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: She's of.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I would say that qualifies you as an influencer.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: 9.5 million yeah, she's of TLC reality TV show fame, the LA Ink show, which a lot of people love.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So she is very famous in that world.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: To be honest, also very famous in the witchcraft and occult world, and she shocked her fans in the world by recently coming out as a follower of Jesus.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: In fact, she posted her baptism online, which more than 5 million people viewed, and then she received some unexpected criticism from drumroll, please, christians.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: So we're going to be talking about that, because that sucks.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: She said that's where she received most of her criticism.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to tease it.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: You know, like in the radio, like I should have just said, she received criticism from an unexpected source and I'll hit you with that right after the break.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: And then Chad would be like I wondered where the yellow went when I brushed my teeth with pepsidon.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: And then we'd be back.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: But instead we're going to start, as promised, with David's random story.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: So I'm driving to the gym and then there's this policeman right next to me, like on the other lane, and I don't know how it is for you guys.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Do you look at him?
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you smile.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Just once, I would love to feel the power that their mere presence evokes.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: I know Because you just tense up you do, or you drive slower than you normally would, right, you start and then they slow down and you don't know if you should look at him, should you smile, should you look straight ahead?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: You know what do you do, right, so that?
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: is.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: I try to pretend like I'm smoking a joint, just to throw them.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: Throw them off a little bit.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: And then you'd be like fake, this was a fake Jay.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: That's a fake pullover, Well actually.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile you're getting cuffed and surfed either way yeah.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: So anyway, right when I'm getting in, where the gym is, this guy in this big pickup truck pulls up next to me, goes can you read that sign?
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: And I'm like that sounds scary.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: He says can you read that sign?
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: And I'm like he goes that's for pregnant women and children.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: And You're that guy.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: When he had this kind of shiny bald head.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: You know, it's one of those guys that just hang out in the gym all day looking at themselves in the mirror.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Chad, but I'm more of a matte, bald head kind of guy.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, not so much into the shine.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Well, he was shining, this guy was glowing.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: So he's like, can you read that sign?
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Well, anyway, so that I go.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: All right, so you're pulling out of that parking spot, aren't you?
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: And he goes, yeah, and I said so, is it all right with you if I park in that parking spot?
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: And he's like like that kind of made this high-pitched sound kind of thing.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of like Like that, wait, what did it sound like?
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Kind of like drove away.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: So then I go to the gym and then I forgot the number of the locker and I couldn't find the locker key.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: And they're open.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: All these you should just work out at home.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I know it's like man, I'm like it's too much shenanigans and they were like what's in the locker and I'm like what do you mean?
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: what's in the locker, so that oh wait, they did that to you.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: Yes, what's in the locker man?
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: They did and they were like what's in the locker and I'm like shoes and pants.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: You know, I have asked Chad if he'll counsel me from going to the gym, but I did lift weights and that is the random story.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, don't mess with the gym.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: David's Random.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Story.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Hey, so I was thinking that, maybe to kind of spice up your random story.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: What do you mean?
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Spice it up.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: What's wrong with it?
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: It's well do I have to say it, chad, or are you going to?
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: say it.
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: You got to say it, he's your dad's, he likes it.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Chad liked the random story.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: No, no, it's really really dull, so Dull.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: No, it wasn't.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: No it wasn't.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I was figuring we could have some music going and I wrote something the other day that I think would just be perfect for your random stories.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: You ready, I'm ready.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it Ready.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you feeling that Sick?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: You feeling that I am feeling this?
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: That's yeah, it's something new I've been noodled around with.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I can't say it's finished.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if it really fits when I look at Chad.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: It doesn't fit Chad at all.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: He's looking red, really red now.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Hey, but before we move on, since you're so inspired by now, leave us a rating and review.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Here's the funny thing I'm about to go speak about seven different times and I'm going to promote the Provoked Inspire podcast everywhere I go, and this will likely be their first exposure, because this will come out kind of after all that.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: So you're welcome If you're new here.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Let's all come on digitally.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Let's all hug our new listeners.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Come on, I'm that felt weird.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I'll leave us a rating and a review wherever you happen to consume this.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: And now I'm punching through the awkward with Chad Johnson.
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: That's so loud that just blew through some speakers.
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you can do this on podcasts, but when I'm watching a YouTube video, I almost always increase the speed to 2x because I'm too like 80D and I'm like I don't have time for like people speaking like this.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: So I'm going to try talking like I'm 2x, going through my story really quickly and just knocking it out and everyone's going to be huh yeah, but then when they list 2x to 2x, it'll be double the excitement.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: It'll just be insanity bro.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: Well, last week I was with you guys and I had a really delightful time.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: It was very, very special.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: The Lord, really, I think, kind of used once again Stiger in my life to be a catalyst for his promises and in his direction, even though sometimes the line or the trajectory of my story has not gone the way that I would have wanted it to maybe.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: But I was reminded specifically of one area that I would really love to grow in this season and I think this is the place to kind of put it out there and maybe invite a listener or two to join in.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: And that's just returning to the simplicity of listening to the Holy Spirit and responding in immediacy, essentially.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: And the story that this comes from because I feel like that you know I was thinking through this for a second and the story that I think best kind of summarizes this would be from John, chapter 1.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: And I'm going to just read a couple of verses, starting in verse 44.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: Now, philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew, and Peter.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: Philip found Nathaniel and said to him we have found him, of whom?
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: Nathaniel said to him can anything good come out of Nazareth?
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Philip said to him come and see.
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: Jesus saw Nathaniel coming toward him and said of him behold an Israelite, indeed, in whom there is no deceit exclamation mark.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: Nathaniel said to him how do you know me?
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: Jesus answered before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: I saw you.
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: Nathaniel answered Rabbi, you are the son of God, you are the king of Israel.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: Jesus answered him because I said to you, I saw you under the fig tree.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Do you believe you will see greater things than these?
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: And he said to him, truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of man.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: What I was getting at, and I think what I shared last time, was the practice of seeing someone the way God does, or at least attempting maybe that's the better way of putting it like attempting to see people the way God sees them.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: And specifically, what I learned in a really fun prophetic exercise was to start the phrase I see you as the kind of person who and then just trust the Holy Spirit to fill my mouth and my brain and my heart with whatever insight would be applicable to that person, to encourage them, to build them up, to boost their connection to God as the Father who loves them and gave his only son, jesus, for them.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: So I'm gonna start doing that and I haven't actually up until now I have not committed to that and I was kind of praying about it and thinking about it and I felt like this was where I wanna commit to that and so the next time that I take a rift, that I'm here if I don't have you guys are now my accountability partners and if I show up and I'm like you're like, yeah, chad, how's your wrist going?
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: I'll be like guys, there's no wrist segment today.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: You'll know that I failed miserably, but Can you explain that, like for people that might not know exactly what you mean?
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: So how does that?
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Mean respond Like what is it that makes you feel like this is the Holy Spirit speaking to me?
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, this is where trust I mean.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: I guess it's the same way of saying how do we know that Jesus is who he says he is Like there is a level of confidence that we're putting outside of ourselves, but I think in this case, what often is the evidence is one.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: What happens when we take a risk and we step out and we start with it doesn't have to be exactly this, but a phrase similar to I see you as the kind of person who and then whatever comes to mind and I feel I don't wanna bait somebody because it could you could pretty easily come up with a like your standard, the kind of person that loves everybody and loves everything and embraces monkeys freely, like in that you just use that every time you see somebody and they're like, wow, I feel so inspired.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: But exactly what I can recall in the past is how often someone would say, similar to Nathaniel to Jesus, like how did you know that about me?
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: And it's because I gave the Holy Spirit permission and I invited him and I asked him to give me.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: Like God, just give me one opportunity this week to see somebody the way Jesus does, and maybe that opportunity will open itself and flourish into a moment for even deeper connection, for prayer, for sharing the gospel, for whatever the potential is there.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: But it is in, maybe the practice, where the obviousness of God's ability to come through shines.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: And when you begin to see someone cry, or they instantly hug you or they're like no way, like dude, what the beep you know, like that kind of stuff was once very normal and what I recall from how people would respond and I just I feel this desire ever since I was with you guys.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Like man, I wanna get back to the that's awesome, yeah, to the point where it's like the Holy Spirit is the one who's leading my steps towards risk and not anything else, and just being aware, you know, and like being clued in to, like I asked the Holy Spirit to help me see somebody through the lens of Jesus, even if all I said was I see you as the kind of person who chose not to give up today and to keep going, or whatever it is.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: You know, it's just, I just say in the end, I mean, the worst thing that's gonna happen is I'm gonna look like a complete fool and I'm gonna be like I see you as a kind of person who, man, dude, I'm so sorry.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: I just drew a blank, you know, like I don't think God sees you as anything.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Sorry, it sucks to be you, you know what's really cool, chad, like this profound interaction with Steve.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: You know the guy who edits this podcast and he was over at my house and I don't know what brought it up but or what made it part of our conversation.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: But we were talking about my daughter, who's three, and the way that she speaks and she's at that phase where she repeats things Like dad, can I?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: You know she repeats things.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: She's three and she's, to be honest, like all my kids, very precocious when it comes to words.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: But she's in that phase and Steve made an observation that I thought was so cool and essentially what he said was she's so secure in who she is and her stage and development verbally that she's willing to just go for it, even while she's in the midst of real time failure as it relates to speaking, like she's just doing it.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: And he said something I thought was so profound.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: He's like imagine if we had the confidence to learn languages that way or do anything that way, where, in full view of everyone, we didn't worry about what it sounded like or what it felt like In her three year old mind.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: She has no worries about the way it sounds, she is just.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Her brain is processing and developing rapidly and she is doing it in real time and because of that confidence, she's growing really, really fast.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And it made me think, as it relates to your story about reacting or responding to the promptings of the Holy Spirit, or you can imagine it in any context, when it's telling someone about Jesus or whatever risk that you might feel led to take.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Imagine, well, first of all, what would it take to get to her level of confidence to be at that place where you didn't worry about what you just said, opening your mouth and nothing coming out, because she doesn't care.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: She repeats the same word nine times, but eventually she gets there and guess what?
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: In six months she's not gonna do that anymore because she's so secure in herself and her willingness to take risks to learn how to speak.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: And I don't know.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I think there was something profound in that as it relates to taking Holy Spirit inspired risks, Don't you think?
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Pride is the one of the biggest things that keeps me from hearing the Holy Spirit because it's like I don't okay If I like, what's the worst that can happen.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: You know, my God's not saying go to Gaza and talk to Hamas about Jesus.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: He's saying go to the bus, stop and tell someone who I am, or whatever.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: It's like.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Most of the Holy Spirit risk that I've encountered is a pride issue.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: I have to just go, okay, if I look foolish, I look foolish.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: You know it's rarely more than that, but I think when I do that, then God gives me more understanding of his voice, right?
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: One thing to consider is that it doesn't necessarily mean that someone listening has to go find a stranger or their barista or someone on the streets or wherever Like this could be a friend, it could be a family member, it could be anybody.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: It doesn't.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: I don't think there's any rule that says you only have to find.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: I think in reality it's probably easier to practice on strangers because then, if you do, all right, feel like you can miss that.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Definitely, it's easier if it's a stranger.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you just walk away and never see him again and you're wow.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the point I'm trying to make is that there is an element of practice that is crucial in spiritual development that I feel like doesn't take place.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Like we spend a lot of time talking about or hearing sermons about various elements of our faith, whether it's taking risks in response to the Holy Spirit or just sharing the gospel or whatever but we fail to understand the practice element.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: I mean I've been giving an illustration recently in sermons where I share how Macklin, my son, wanted to play hockey and I was like all right, dude, but it's going to be really hard.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Skating is not easy.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: And I tell the crowd listening, like in our family we have a motto that says falling is learning.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And I said if you're gonna learn how to skate, dude, you're gonna fall a lot and it's gonna hurt and it's gonna be hard and that's how you're gonna grow.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: And I got a front row seat of watching this kid fall and fall and crash into the boards and you should see him now.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I mean it's extraordinary and that is such a obvious thing as it relates to something like skating, and yet I feel like we don't apply the same logic to things like sharing the gospel.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: People go how do I get good at talking to my friend or my son about Jesus?
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Well, if you haven't done it more than once ever, the odds are you're probably not gonna be very good at it.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: So don't you think we've lost a little bit of the aspect of practice like actual practice in our spiritual development.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: It reminds me of a friend of mine who was really wanting to see the miraculous you know, like just supernatural move of the Holy Spirit in his life.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: He was on an island somewhere and some guy had drowned on the beach, and so they're all.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: It was very terrible.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: How many lives have you lived?
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: What you have so?
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: many New Zealand's a big island, but it is a technical island.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: So, anyway, he was walking around this beach and there's a guy drowned on the beach and so he felt like I should pray for him that he'll raise from the dead, and you can imagine it's really emotional.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: All these people are there because their friends just drowned, because they hadn't known.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, okay.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: So he goes over there and he it's a high leverage situation, yeah.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: I would say so A lot of risk involved and he did, and the guy didn't raise from the dead and so then he just kind of okay, and he just kind of got up and kept walking because he was on this beach and I guess I would say that's what I need to do.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: It's like the results are not the point, it's the obedience.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: That's the point, isn't it Interesting?
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: You know, it's like can you imagine taking a risk like that?
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: But there's all these people around there.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: God didn't raise him from the dead.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: We know he does sometimes he doesn't sometimes.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know why.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: There's something crucial embedded in what you said, which is that obedience is a response to confidence in the identity that you have in God as his son or daughter, in the sense that our world says you are what you do, you are what you achieve, and so we can transfer that mentality into our spiritual life and think well, I don't wanna take this risk, because if I fail, then I fail as a follower of Jesus or something you know.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I'm a bad missionary or whatever.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Right, it's a throwback.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: The illustration I pointed out with Lena is that my daughter is that she doesn't have any insecurities about the way that she's speaking, so she, in an unabashed way, goes for it, and because she goes for it, she's learning at an extraordinary rate, and so it does ultimately come back to.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I am secure in who God has made me, and so the results are not, they don't define me, they aren't what give me value.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I don't earn my point system in heaven because of this.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: God loves me, and then I am free, like a three-year-old, to take risks out of love, right, not in a performative way, but out of love because I wanna see him use me.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: And then, like you said, you leave the results to him, and if it doesn't work, you don't become cynical or jaded.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: You move on with faith and optimism.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: But it's not.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: It doesn't affect your identity, so it does start with that, which is why I think there's so much depth.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: It's such a profound idea of watching my three-year-old develop, because I think it gives me such an indication as to what the ingredients are for me to likewise be reckless, in a good sense, in acting on what I believe God is telling me to do.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: One of the greatest lessons I've learned through addiction recovery and specifically addiction recovery group therapy, is that there's safety in that place.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: There's no judgment.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: You can say whatever crazy thing comes out of your mouth and know that people around you are not gonna look at you as though you're a creep or you're lesser than or anything.
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: And so if that's how people are able to learn to treat each other who struggle with addiction, how much more would we hope that the kingdom of God would treat one another in kindness and in graciousness?
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: When it comes to wow man, that person didn't raise from the dead on that beach, but the fact that you had obedience to go over there and do that, that is shocking.
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: Like you know, 99% of us, myself included, would have just kept walking.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: You know, like to be the one that's like I'm gonna stop and actually pray that a miracle happens.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: I'm just thinking what if we were like that?
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: You know, just like we, just obedience, I don't care, you know, it's like killing in my pride.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: That's a big part of it, I think.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: But how would God move?
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, mine too.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: And I think you said something, ben that's really important is that it's not by knowledge, it's by doing.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: You know, the knowledge is only important if I use it, if I start acting on it.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: And how much is about?
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: We're just taught to learn things but not act on it, not to live our faith.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: And for me personally, when I started to really understand who Jesus was and he was worth giving my life to him was when I started acting on what I knew.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: I had all this knowledge before, but it didn't transform my life.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: I didn't see God's power.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I, you know, I had that kind of cultural Christianity that's powerless and doesn't change anything.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: But it was when I started taking those risks and that it all changed, and I think that's what it's supposed to be like, isn't it?
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, there's a lot of reasons for it, I think.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: If you want to get academic on it, I think that there is an overreaction to a fear of works-based Christianity, where it's almost like the Reformation went too far and said you can't earn your faith at all.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Any action that you take that would suggest you're earning God's favor in any way is bad, and so it merely becomes this individualistic mental ascent like to a set of propositions Right right.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Like I know and worship and love God and that defines who I am and everything else.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I don't want to suggest that by feeding the poor or giving money or performing these rituals or X, y and Z, that that in any way seems to suggest that I'm holier than you, and I think that's overly simplistic.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: There are other factors that have contributed, but largely we live in this sort of entertainment show, ted Talk, church culture where you come and you get yet more information.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I remember having this thought where you know I'm reading through the Bible and you need to keep doing that and there's an inexhaustible depth of truth and beyond that, it's filled by the living Holy Spirit that is speaking through it in an ever-dynamic way.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: And yet I had this thought where I thought what if I just lost the access to the Bible and all I had was what I already knew and the Holy Spirit inside of me?
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: And I kind of had this thought like I probably know enough.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mean that in an arrogant way, but I was like man.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: If I would just live out what I know through the power of the Holy Spirit, man, I could spend a lifetime just getting 1 Corinthians 13 right.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I think about the profundity of that, like, yes, it's used as a trope in weddings, but, man, if I was to say I'm going to devote myself to being patient and kind and never boastful, never envious and slow to anger, and keeping no records of wrong and always being hopeful and always persevering, always believing, I could spend a lifetime, through the power of the Holy Spirit, just trying to live that out in my life.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: There does need to be a correction in the action and knowledge, continuum or interchange, however you want to call that.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Because sorry to go on and on, but for me my life changed when I was 19 years old and of course, I had a lot of profound things happen before that.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: But when you Dad said we're going on the beach, we're going to walk to Long Beach this amazing New Zealand coffee shop about two miles away and we're going to pray, and we're going to just walk and talk and pray, it wasn't ritualistic, it wasn't religious, but it was authentic and honestly, I think that was when, for the first time, that simple action of taking all the knowledge I had about prayer and started to apply it physically in a disciplined act of going before the Lord and crying out to Him and bringing everything I had before Him.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: That set me on a course that literally to this day, to this literal day, has continued and that was maybe the most revolutionary knowledge to action transformation that has taken place in my life.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: And I think how much more would I have grown spiritually, or would I grow spiritually if other transitions like that took place.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: But it took doing what I knew, not simply knowing more of what I already knew.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: That was like a riddle.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: Well, it's an amazing testimony to God's faithfulness and specifically to your Dad's willingness to just ask you something as simple as let's go for a walk.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Let's walk two miles on the beach to the coffee shop.
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: That's amazing, the way that God has given you both such an incredible story of His willingness to interact with you.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: But I was just thinking, as it relates to Kat Von D and the topic of this podcast.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Hey look, hey, once a quarter chat you lead us in with some Holy Spirit inspired moment.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: That completely derails the topic and I'm cool with that.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: That's kind of living by what we preach.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: So you can add in Kat Von D, or we can do a 90 second.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Here's the Kat Von D story.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Either way, I think the people listening, I'd assume, are agreeing.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: This has been a very important conversation, so carry forth.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's maybe it's most important, because once upon a time I saw myself as an expert risk taker and I could show up and take risk in any number of kind of situations.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: And not that I in that moment maybe saw myself as an expert, but I think what David said, I think there was some, some pride attached to.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: I've kind of got this figured out, you know, and, like I've, I feel great.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: I feel that there was a lot of, a lot of confidence and a lot of connection to the Lord.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: So it certainly wasn't all.
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: You know, I don't know that it's ever possible for a human who's desiring to walk after God to be all all good and all bad.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: You know, it's just like there was some, there's some character defects that were following me that that I didn't realize were there, but God still worked through those by by his kindness and his grace.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: The, as it relates to where we are now and this kind of opportunity, it's it's not from the position of expert, it's from the position of simplicity and and just going back to the basics of how God might speak, might desire to speak to people who don't realize that he loves them, and myself included, and so that I think there's an opportunity here that all of us get to wrestle with and hopefully this episode kind of and the subsequent risks of of how this plays out will will be evidence of what what it looks like to continue to grow in obedience to the Lord, especially when it's if I'm you know, I don't know that pride is.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: Maybe pride is still a thing for me, it could be, but I think for me the bigger one is is like judgment.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: You know, like I can see someone and I sort of immediately not judge them in the sense of like they're going to hell or something like that, but more like I can make assumptions about them that that are just like purely human based.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: You know that that don't matter at all in comparison to the depths of how God feels about that person and what they may be going through in in life.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Well, again, let me.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Let me put a cap on this topic and then give the 90 seconds on camp.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you guys can give your 60 second response and then we're going to just eat waffles, listen to David's theme song and just right into the night Again, I just I'm just inspired by the simplicity of a child, like faith, right, and there's, there's a reason why Jesus highlighted children, because there's there is a trust in their parents, there is a willingness to make mistakes, there is a curiosity about the world, there is an unjaded innocence, although there is definitely an emerging sin nature as well.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: But that inspires me and I just I want to be someone who cares less about what people think and cares more about them to do what I know is right for them, even if I risk looking foolish in the process, and so, whatever that means in my life, I really want to meditate on that and I'm grateful for your example in this chat, or at least your, your willingness to be accountable because it makes me feel accountable.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: It makes me want to do it too, and I know that our listeners feel the same.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: So, david, unless you have any concluding remarks, I can give the 90 seconds on Kat Von D, and then we'll just move on.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's talk about Kat.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: So Kat Von D, like I said, instagram influencer in the tattoo world, 9.5 million followers, also very much into the occult and witchcraft.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: She came out as a follower of Jesus, posted her baptism online and then, of course, you get the usual craziness in the comments a lot of her sort of cult fans, occult fans and those in sort of her vibe in terms of witchcraft and the dark spirituality world.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: They criticized her, but about a week or so later I don't know if I got the timeline right, but she comes out with another video.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: She came out with another video in which she talks about how actually, the criticism that was hardest for her to receive was from Christians, and I would hate to say that this was unpredictable.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I'm not really entirely shocked by it, but really it is very tragic.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I guess a lot of them criticized her for accusing her of staging her baptism or using it as some way to get attention, which is weird when she's already massively famous and, as she says in her video, this has way more risk than reward.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: They also criticized her for her hand not being under the water better when she was baptized which is really bizarre, I've never thought of such a thing.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: But basically, in watching this and reading this and thinking about this, my overall takeaway is, first and most obviously, this kind of judgment is ridiculous.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Right, modern Pharisees are clearly alive and well and these kinds of people are barely worth the attention that we're even giving them right now.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: But as I was observing this, I just felt led to say Holy Spirit, where is their judgment?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: In my heart?
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Because my tendency as paradoxical or as ironic as it might sound, is to judge those that judge like they judge right.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: So I'm kind of like there can be an opposite side of this where you consider yourself so sophisticated and so nuanced and you see everything so clearly that you become the Pharisee judge and really I think in God's eyes it's no different, right, the guy that's.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: You know you think all conservative Christians are idiots and you know there is that tendency to become so cool as a Christian and so not like them, not like the Pharisees, that you actually don't have a love for them.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I had this moment not long ago where, you know, my heart is really for preaching to the lost and seeing them come to know Jesus, but, if I'm honest, I went through a season where I wasn't loving the people in the church that God was calling me to reach like I should, and I really felt convicted.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I was listening back to some sermons I was giving and I was trying to do some self-scouting and I felt really convicted that my tone was harsh, that I was talking to the you church people who don't have the perfect clear view that I do and you know, of course that's not what I was saying it and I was trying to couch it in all the right language, but my heart wasn't right.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I was judgmental and arrogant and I wasn't ever going to be the guy that was going to judge Kat Von D, but I was the guy that was going to judge church lady McGee, which would be weird, but it rhymed and so it was necessary.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: And so I guess my takeaway is this it's very easy to see judgmentalism in others, but it can be very hidden in ourselves, and so my takeaway from this is, yes, be appalled by Christians judging Kat Von D, but be careful, because the odds are there are some of this in your own heart, and Jesus of all things seems to take this very, very seriously.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: And so we better as well, because it's a very pernicious, very toxic, very anti Jesus thing to do and be, and I know it can be in my heart.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I just shared with you that it was, and I'm sure it still will be as long as I'm human and imperfect.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: So it's like what Jesus said in Matthew 7, where he said why do you look at the speck of sawdust?
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: The contrast he makes so funny because he's saying why do you look at the speck of sawdust?
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: So it's like a speck you can hardly see it in your brother's eye, but pay attention to the plank in your own eye.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: How many times have I done that?
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: How many times have I been critical?
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: God shows me the plank in my own eye, right, and so I think that's a very important thing.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: It's very easy.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: Like you said, ben, when I was working, especially in the early days with the whole punk scene, I looked down on anyone who wore a tie.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: If a guy wore, if you saw someone in a suit and tie, I thought that they were a loser.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, which is so stupid?
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's like and God, but it's like you could look down like.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: You drive a nice car, you're lame.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: You drive an old car, you're cool.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: It's like arrogance.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the point I'm making.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: It has no bounds.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Arrogance makes friends with anyone right.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I guess my point is it hides, and I always have to be personally you're talking about.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: How does it apply to me?
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: I have to always be asking God to show me my heart, because I have no idea.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: I have no idea that the arrogance that's hiding there, and I think that's something David did, you know, and he would always say show me my heart, oh Lord.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: And I think I think it's really something I need to do on a regular basis.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: And when I say I am talking about me, that I need to do on a regular basis is God, show me my heart.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: Is there, you know, if there's any wicked way in me, because it hides and it can even look like I'm standing up for the truth or whatever, and then I need to remember what Jesus did for me.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that there isn't sawdust.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Jesus didn't say don't take the sawdust out of their eye.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: You didn't say that Just deal with yourself first.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah because?
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: because a lot of people say, you can't judge anything, and I don't think that's what Jesus meant.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: I mean no.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Chad, you get the last one.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Chad get the last thing, because I literally got to go pick up Lena, who became sort of the core topic, the inspiration, the muse for me, if you will.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: But, chad, give us 90 seconds, go Close us with a song and dance.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: The thing that impressed me most about Kat Von D's story is when I heard her say that she did not get baptized to get saved.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: She was already saved and that four years ago this process had begun and I don't know.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: I tried to find like the origin story and I wasn't able to track that down or source it.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: No, but she's going to come on this podcast and tell us that would be amazing.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Friend of hers was a student in our school in Germany, so we're going to try to hold her, that is me optimistically hoping.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: But we'll see.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: We'll see.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: That would be so cool.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: Well, either way, I was most impressed by that.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: I felt like she just like annihilated the Christian skeptics with that.
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: But anyway, super encouraging.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: I've loved what I've seen and heard of her and pray that God that this is only the beginning for her.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: It's exciting.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, more so.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: It's like, it's like, it's like another Brian head.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: It's cool.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Exactly Very similar.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll pray that we get her on.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: That would be cool.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: We'll go for that.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, yeah, this was a little bit, you know, mismashed a little.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: It's mismatched a word.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: It's good, though it's what happens when Luke's not around.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true, we just go any way.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: We want.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Anyway, we want.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: All right, leave us that rating If you're on Spotify.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Leave us that review If you're anywhere else where keystrokes are permitted.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, david's theme song three, two, one bass.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: And if you ever see a bald guy in a pickup truck, make sure you're parking at the right spot, because he'll be there to give you a special shiny bald headed.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: All right, that's it, we love you.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: It's probably all copyrighted.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know what Steve's gonna do, but I'll fade it out.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Wow, that was a good.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: That didn't fade.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: That was lame, you just dropped it out, he will get by.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: Kind of reminds me of you know, I don't think anyone's gonna tell us when to leave.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good call Garth, I'll bet we're just gonna sit here.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: When they're finished they'll fade to black.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: I can't believe they did that.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: I told you.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Well, there you have it, people, that's great.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I can't believe they did that.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: We love you and we'll talk to you next time Peace.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Provoke and Inspire podcast.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: If you enjoy this content, consider leaving us a rating and a review on iTunes.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Got questions for the guys?
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Send them to provokeandinspireatsteigerorg.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.