Latest / Quick Wins for ADHD Moms - Short Episodes, Real Solutions for Burnout and Overwhelm / How to Advocate for Your Neurodivergent Child at School (Without Burning Out) | Lisa Richer

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How to Advocate for Your Neurodivergent Child at School (Without Burning Out) | Lisa Richer · Quick Wins for ADHD Moms - Short Episodes, Real Solutions for Burnout and Overwhelm

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, hey, before we get in today's episode, I want to share something that genuinely caught my attention.
0:05
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0:14
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0:19
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0:27
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0:32
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0:39
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0:45
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0:53
SPEAKER_01: This is Quick Wins for ADHD Moms.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: If you're a mom with ADHD, with probably ADHD kids, you're probably smart, capable, and completely overwhelmed anyway.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, you're in the right place.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Jessica Lynn Lewis, more at the ADHDmom.com.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Now let's get into the show.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, we're so excited to have Lisa Richer on the show today.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Lisa, for joining us.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to be here.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Should be conversation.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: I was on your website earlier.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: There's just, I was like, we could take this conversation about 10 different directions, but we're going to try to keep it focused for you today.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: But we always start our show off with a quick win for ADHD moms.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, what is something that has been helpful for you, or maybe a small story that you can share that that kind of worked?
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: So last week I was having a really rough week in terms of my nervous system just being dysregulated, having a hard time focusing, getting grounded.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: And my win is that I chose to lean into a strength workout instead of the cabinet, where I would have sat down a year ago and snapped on different things because I was feeling out of control.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: But instead, I chose to lean into a strength workout, which I just started lifting again for the first time in many, many years.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: I was in late-level gymnast.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: So I used to lift all the time, but I stopped because I would bulk up.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: But then I learned the alignment of how to fuel my body and work out without getting bulky.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: And because of that habit, that quick win was I was so stressed out.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: But instead of going to the cabinet and grabbing uh chips and cheese and salsa, which used to be my go-to, I went over, turned on my workout, and grabbed my weights.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: And it literally just shifted my mindset for the rest of the day.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing how that does that.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: Do you have a specific dedicated space too?
3:00
SPEAKER_01: That is that that's helpful.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm laughing because um people, my my older son goes, Mom, you can work out anywhere.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yes, that's why I invested in the program I'm in now, because I work out in my most of the time I work out in our family room or our great room, whatever people call it now.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I literally have my weights off to the side and my medicine ball and my my exercise ball.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: I turn on a show and my workouts last 30 to 45 minutes.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: So often I can get through a show while I'm doing it.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: But I could go to the basement, but no, I just people are walking around me and I just do it right there.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Because it's out of sight, out of mind, right?
3:37
SPEAKER_01: If it's down, if it's somewhere where you're not gonna be off in, it's like, oh, I don't work out, what?
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Or I get you distracted trying to like I get into something else, but if they're right there, I always see them.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Or I'm in my family room more than I'm in any other room in the house.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's like staring at me.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: So if I'm sitting on the couch instead of sitting there and just watching TV, I'm like, why am I not standing up and working out while watching TV?
4:01
SPEAKER_00: It's a much more effective way to do things, right?
4:05
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, uh it's a habit.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: It was a big habit, but that that habit turned into a really um impactful win last week.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: So maybe I should um bring stuck up my my 15-pound weights, just bring them up stuff, set them by the TV and I can at least be doing sit-ups or something.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: That's better than nothing.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, Lisa, I would love to hear a little bit more about your background and your story and what you do and how you help people, because you help people in so many different ways.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm just gonna let you lead and kind of share your story.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I'm gonna back into it if that's okay.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: Um one thing is I I live in the messy middle.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: So I know, Jessica, you looked at my site and it's very personal.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, I live in that uncomfortable, comfortable space where many people told me I shouldn't live.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: And what I learned was that living there made other people uncomfortable.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: And at one point in time, it stopped me from being me because so many people in society were telling me, do it differently, don't be so emotional, don't be so energetic, don't be so passionate, whatever the case was.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: And so um I um I grew up as an elite-level athlete, undiagnosed, neurodivergent, went through school, undiagnosed, went through many years as a court in the corporate world and leadership and development and sales leadership and HR and all sorts of things that again undiagnosed, so met a lot with a lot of friction uh because of how I think and do things.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I became a mom.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: I was gifted, not one, but two neurodivergent kiddos.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: And so my journey with this work started unknowingly when I was born, if you think about it, because I grew up as a neurodivergent individual.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: I just didn't realize it.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Um and I've learned so many things over the years.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the the premise of what was originally called Bloom Special Education Advocacy, that's what I started my business with.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: That's my actual LLC, was because of my first son, who from the very beginning, there were struggles.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: And so very quickly I had to learn to advocate for him.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, I had many people that guided me on that.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Our first pediatrician, trust your gut.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: Your mom guts right because I gone in about something and somebody told me I was wrong.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: The pediatrician was like, nope, you were spot on.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: So while I wasn't trusting myself for me, I learned as a first-time mom very early on within the first two weeks to trust that intuition for my kids.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And so it started with my um older son, had many people help me navigate through this the system.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then my um his their my younger one came along, typically developing until he wasn't.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: So there were lots of things that we did with him, very different neuro differences.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: And I was doing this work for free.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: At one point, my husband said, Well, when are you ever going to get paid for?
7:15
SPEAKER_00: And I was still leading either um, I was leading like um staffing firm, and then I was in sales management, and then I was um in HR leadership.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: So I always had these teams of people that maybe one or two understood me and the rest didn't.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: And this is all now while I was trying to navigate the world of two children that were narrow different, and I didn't really know what I didn't know.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: So aligning myself with all these partners and people through the years, I originally launched that first business, which well, it's still a business, I just my DBA now doing business as is journey to so um, but it started out with this really narrow focus of special education advocacy.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: And I say narrow focus because for those first several years, I was met with this like hands up, whoa, back off, we're against you, where the principal that asked me or recommended that I do this as a living wanted me to do it because I do things so differently.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: So when I go into a school, I'm there because a family, I'm there because of their vi.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: The family for whatever reason that was.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm there in collaboration with them and the school, but I'm really there for the child.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: And so because I walk with them, my clients hire me to work with them, not for me.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: And so um as time went on, I rebranded to Journey to Bloom.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: And your website is journey tobloom.com.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: And journey to bloom.com.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I expanded into these different domains.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't matter if you're in the family room, the classroom, the boardroom, or the arena.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: I've lived in all those spaces.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: But when somebody comes to me, the lens upon which I go through is always a neurodiversity lens, the lens of neurodivergence.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: I believe that neurodiversity is the prism lighting the table.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's the child, sometimes it's my neurodiverences that are lighting the table.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: But that spectrum is what really brings us together to help people move through their why they why they hired me.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Um but in the in the um the the original Primus of Italy was to help parents navigate the neurodiverse learning journey.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: And then over time it became parents ask me to help them in their corporate lives or in their individual lives and things like that.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: So um a variety of different certifications that you can find them on my site or I can talk to somebody about them.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: But my 50, some years of lived experience is at the helm of it.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: And at the center is the fact that I am also neurodivergent.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've got lots of questions based on all of that.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: But the first is when did you find out you were neurodivergent?
10:08
SPEAKER_00: So I was diagnosed with um anxiety in my early 20s, but I didn't realize that was what it is, is you know, under that neurodiversity umbrella.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: But I was also dislabeled.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: I was given medicine and told to move on.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: And so that I think is what started me on my belief that diagnoses informed, they don't define, because I was never given the tools and resources on how to work through it.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: So that was my first um diagnosis.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, when I went into when I hit full-on burnout, I say full-on because burnout starts a long time before it actually crushes you.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I was crushed to ashes during COVID.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was in that time that I was diagnosed with ADHD.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: I was diagnosed with CPTSD.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, so that was six years ago.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then in between those time periods, I um my younger son had a vision therapist and he had visual processing differences, and we were training him to do his home program.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: The the uh vision therapist looked at me and said, You could really use vision therapy.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: And I said, What do you mean?
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, How were you ever an elite-level gymnast?
11:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: Your debt perception, your peripheral is so out of whack.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, the side mirrors and the rear view mirror that says objects in the mirror are closer than they appear.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: She's like, That those are that's your eyes.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: You are way out of whack.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: And we didn't know, we didn't know back then there was no diagnosis for that, or at least not enough information that you would have known to go and have that happen.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: So it started in my 20s with the anxiety, but unknowing what that meant.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: But then as after becoming a mom, um, I was not uh nigh 15 years, almost six almost 15 years into being a mom before I got my first my my first additional diagnosis.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: And you, I mean, that must have been looking back thinking, wow, okay, I see it now.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: I see how all those pieces fit together and it makes sense.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Everything makes sense, and it's so interesting, Jessica, because I honestly always said I didn't care if I was diagnosed.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: However, what it's done is it has allowed me to get back to being free to be me, fully free to be me, and educating others on what it means to be me, and then letting them choose if they want to come along with me or continue to try and make me feel less than.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: And I say try because it used to work, but it doesn't anymore.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: No, no, you you talked about before, I don't know if you mentioned it here at a recovering people pleaser.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I didn't have to mention it here, but yes, I yeah, I don't try to please anybody anymore.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think we get to that point now that we're, you know, coming, coming into the late 40s and 50s.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: Like as we're older and your kids are getting older, it's like, I don't have time.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't have time for that.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't I just want to be able to live my life I g I free.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's the right word, but it just feels more free and light, just light, I guess.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: And we want we want that so much for our kids.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: And I see, you know, right now we're we're struggling with our with our boys in school, and one in particular.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like not getting homework done and not, you know, trying to figure out what's the problem.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, are the teachers telling you the homework, or he's not writing things down?
13:51
SPEAKER_01: And so I know you work with a lot of families with that struggle of kids in school and just not like they're really smart.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: They're really smart.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, as a mom with ADHD, having a kid with ADHD, I'm trying to figure out how to navigate their learning journey because I didn't have this support when I was young and I struggled.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: I did work I did very well, but I worked 10 times harder than everybody else, you know.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: And so what does that look like, you know, with you partnering with families in in schools, whether that's a public school, a private school, homeschool, and are there differences in how you approach that and how you support those families?
14:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm writing notes because I'll forget what you said and I would have interrupted.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: I'll forget what I said too.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: So so um there's a couple of things.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Before we go into that, I just want to share the the thing about being free.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: So for me, I didn't just get there in my late 40s, early 50s.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be 54 in a couple months.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: I often say that burnout was the worst and best thing that happened to me.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Because I finally, for the first of my life, put myself first instead of focusing on everyone else.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that stems from how I was brought up, which I've learned too through my last several years in in therapy and unpacking how I became what I became, how my surroundings and society um uh influenced or impact or didn't influence those pieces.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: So I also didn't, you know, I didn't know what I didn't know growing up.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: You didn't know what you didn't know growing up.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: So um we didn't have those things.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: I did work 10 times harder, but I also didn't get good grades.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So I worked 10 times harder.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: And the harder I worked, the dumber.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: And so um I I got my way through things looking back, everything is much clearer.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: And my sole focus as a parent, I would say like my North Star, is to ensure that my children never felt the way that I did growing up.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, did it backfire on me?
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sometimes because I was coddling, I was enabling, I was doing those things.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: But then Burna also helped me recognize one, well, I couldn't be everything to everyone because I didn't have the capacity to do that, but also showed me just how strong and resilient my children are.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: But I also did a lot of early intervention, a lot of things with them.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: So the journey for both of my kids started, and my younger one started around two and a half.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: My older one started when it was two months old.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: So I was truly working with them and advocating for them since they're the early, early, early days.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: So when I partner with families, it is different.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: Every family is different.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: That's where I was saying, I can tell you who I am, what I do, and how I do it, but that why is yours.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: It's yours to choose.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Also, the term why triggers me.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, because growing up, I was always asked, why do you think that way?
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Why would you do that?
17:03
SPEAKER_00: Why do you?
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Why, why, why, why?
17:05
SPEAKER_00: And see for me, it's like a tense feeling.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: When somebody would ask me, huh, that's interesting.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: How is that, how is that making you feel?
17:15
SPEAKER_00: Or what what made you think that?
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Or um who shared that with you, you know, or who told you that?
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Anything that wasn't directed at like a stab in the heart kind of thing.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Like the way is like a harsh word to me.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: But there is why behind it.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes when parents come to me, I just interestingly, Jessica, I came to this realization last night because somebody was we were talking about why I was talking about why last week on another episode with somebody else.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: And it really is why is that heavy?
17:45
SPEAKER_00: Why is heavy to me?
17:47
SPEAKER_00: The who, the what, the how, or the me wrapping my arms around the collaboration and us moving together.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: But the why, the why someone comes to me, or the why someone wants to work with me, that's theirs to unpack.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: I can be there in that center to help them get that clarity, the confidence, and the courage, which is what my is called my confidence courage journey map.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I can help them get there, but they have to be willing to go there with me.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: And so the one thing that is non-negotiable, regardless if I'm working with a family that hasn't had their kids start school yet, because so they might be like in pre-K or in Maryland, we call it infants and toddlers.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: In California, it's called the regional center.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it's called.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: Like every stink has a little bit of a different.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but really it's you the zero to three-year-old support, and then it's three to five, and then they go into the school at either five or six.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: And so I work with parents across that all the way up through high school.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: I've more recently had some ask me, will you help me transition my child into college?
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Because they have worked with me during other years.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: And so there are certain aspects of that that I will lean into, but there are a lot that I won't because it's not my expertise.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: And there are other people out there.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: So what I don't do with parents is I don't go into mediation.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't do um say complaints.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, I do more of the middle and helping people understand all those factors and take more of a train the trainer philosophy where my ultimate goal is to have people figure out what's happening and then have them say, I don't need you right now, and then come back to me when they need me.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Kind of like let them free, right?
19:33
SPEAKER_00: When they have the tools and they're feeling clear and confident and courageous to do it on their own.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do partner with families and each approach is different based on their needs.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: So would you be okay if I use your circumstances that we were talking about with your seven?
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: So here's like a little um, and I this isn't bothering anyone.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: I like the little, no, it's not bothering me at all.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: I was like, can I get one?
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's awesome in a show.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: So it's got squishy here, and then it's hard there, and then you can also spin it.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: So it's got like all the different types of I know it's my daughter would love that.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: So they we I think we bought them up at Amazon and there was like a whole packet and all different types.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: So some were hard on the outside.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: This one's squishy.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: So it's good, yeah.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: So um I love it, little fidget toys, while you're recording.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: So um your son is in seventh grade, and you were sharing how not getting his homework turned in.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned he is diagnosing ADHD, but there's an executive functioning component to it.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: So a couple years ago, I actually got certified in executive functioning, not because I want to be a coach, because I'm sort of hard to do it now, but because I wanted schools to understand that it was not good.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: And I honestly got tired of schools saying I didn't know what I was talking about.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: And so instead of getting um frustrated and in what they would have called defensive, where I would say it was my loved experience, I went and got a certification in it.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: So now I can share with them there is an intersectionality with ADHD, kids that are autistic, which is that ADH or AD intersection.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then um language differences.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: So there's all these different facets.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: So you could just have struggles with executive functioning.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: That is possible.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: You might have time blindness, you might have a really hard time getting started.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: It could be um a reaction to anxiety or a trigger, trauma trauma trigger or something.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: But there is an executive functioning around.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Through line, yeah.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Through line, yeah.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: So with him not completing his work, I would go down a series of questions with you in terms of where do you see that most often?
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Is it in a particular class?
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Is it at a certain time type of day?
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Are there certain Connectors that are, you know, and that are stopping him from getting started.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it is just a matter of forgetfulness of turning it in.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: And so we would talk about those things and then we would talk about does he currently have a 504 plan or an IEP?
22:20
SPEAKER_00: If it's only the supports and accommodations that he needs and he doesn't need special design instruction, then we would be looking potentially at um asking for a meeting to discuss the need for a 504 plan.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: And then need to go through a whole series of is there a qualifying diagnosis, which he would have one, the OHI, other health impairment.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: And then let's talk about it.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Where is he struggling?
22:48
SPEAKER_00: What is he struggling with?
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay, without these accommodations in place, does he have equal access to what everyone else is same-age non-disabled peers?
22:58
SPEAKER_00: I hate that term, but that's what they call it, non-disabled peers.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: And so we'd look at those facets and we would meet with the team, with this whole team, we would talk about those things.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: And then if he qualifies and if yes, we agree that these things are needed, then we could put a 504 plan in place.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: In some cases, now we're the state I live in, it's almost well not going to be impossible, almost impossible to get an IEP just for executive functioning.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: However, in Pennsylvania, where one where my couple of my best friends live, that's where we are.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: So um one of my um best friends lives outside of Philly.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: And they called me a few years ago and said they want to give my son an IEP just for executive functioning.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: And I said, What?
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Take it.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Like I was over by the fact that they won't do that.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: And it was a whole conversation of the labeling.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't want him to look different, all those the shameful things.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: So that's the why.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: That's the why that person came to me to talk about it.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: They were feeling ashamed, they didn't know if their child would look different.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: And my thing is the more you give someone, the more opportunity they have to be successful.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: So let them that whole let them theory.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: Like I I've never actually, but for me, let them judge you, let them do those things.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: Cause if it's helping you do something better, I wish I had been given all those tools growing up.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: I would have let anything if I knew it was helping me get where I needed to go.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: And so um the person, that child is now um three years in with an IEP with an IEP specifically for executive functioning.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: And there are some classes that can be specific for executive functioning, some tutorials, some um a course that's supposed to help with um mapping out assignments, your graphic organizers, with making sure there's checklists to ensure that they are getting things done, check-in checkout processes with certain teaching with a teacher at the beginning of the day and the end of the day in between.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: So there's all these things that can be put in place, some with the 504, if it's just those accommodations.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: But if it is a matter of truly not having the tools and understanding of how to get started or how to move from A to B to C in completing an assignment and then turning it in, then possibly there might need to be specially designed instruction, which would require an IEP.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: But if it's really more a matter of the checklists, the graphic organizers, the organized organizer book, some check-in checkouts to make sure they're staying on top of things, there may be other ways to do it without that specially designed instruction.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: So again, some schools might have that, what we call here a tutorial.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: It depends on what grade you're in, but in in the middle schools, it's called a instructional seminar, might be what it's called in middle school, but you have to have an IEP to be able to get it.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: So if you were in my state and I knew a child needed those things, we would push to try to get goals because that's the only way they could get into that class.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, in other states, I don't know if it's in all of Pennsylvania, but the part that I'm more familiar with, um, which is the like the Blue Root.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I grew up in in the Lehigh Valley, so up the blue route in all of these.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm on the other side of Pennsylvania, closer to Ohio and New York.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know exactly, but I know in that in that other corridor, um, I would know that um some of those things they didn't necessarily need an IEP.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: So part of it would be understanding not just your child circumstances, the Hawaii behind you coming, and also how your particular school district works.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: Because even within my county, I can go into six different schools.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: They can all be middle schools, all be elementary, or all be high school, and every one of them will have a different interpretation of what they're doing.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: It's scary.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And it that's so hard as a parent because you're like, I don't know how to help them.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to do.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: And we do have our kids in a private education, and so it's like IEP and the 503, like, I don't know, they just handle things differently.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, they they absolutely will help any way they can.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's the support is there, but the how is not.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: So, Jessica, so for example, um, the IEP and the 504 plans are for public education.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm understanding.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Or non-public.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: So if you are a school that the public school is paying for the child to go to because they need a more restrictive environment in order to access FAPE, which is a free and appropriate public education, then there are that.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: In I'll use Maryland as an example, because that's the most familiar I am with the private and um private, non-public and parochial systems.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: For um the private schools for private.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: So not, they're not like a Catholic domination or a parochial, and they're not um a non-public where they're supported where they align with the school system that and they have an IEP in place, then um some of those schools don't have any of those pieces of scaffolding or they'll try to do it as a one-off.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: If you're in some of the schools that are parochial schools, they will have their own version of an IEP or a 504 plan.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: So, like we're my younger, both of my kids ended up in private.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: My um, my older son, they did call it a 504 plan, even though it wasn't a 504 plan, but that you were able to align in and still get him when he needed in college based on that and his former IEP from years past.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: My younger son, we have more of like an individualized personal plan.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: I think we were calling him an IPP, um, but we also have our all of our accommodations.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: So we can convert them if somebody goes back into like a public or into a non-public school where it's done.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: So um all of those things would depend on how I would meet them.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: So for someone in your circumstances who is at a private school and um they don't technically have the IEP or the 504 plans, they have the willingness and the desire for education.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: I would approach yours differently.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: I would approach it with um, you could hire me to work with you to have a meeting with the school team to talk about creative ways to help your son.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Things that maybe they don't know or they don't know they don't know because they only know what they know, right?
29:50
SPEAKER_00: So it's the unknown unknowns.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: That's where my that's for that's where my the friction point is with many people outside of me, but that's also my guiding light is as that prism lighting the table.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: I think in the nonlinear, I think gray, I think kind of this way, almost like a weaving.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't go up and down and I don't go straight side to side.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: And so getting really curious with have you tried this?
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, how does that work?
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Talking with you, I would even include your son because he's in middle school.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: So he knows what's he might know what's stopping him, but he might not know.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: And so trying to figure out what pieces he doesn't even know he doesn't know about.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: And then I would work in unison with you on what you're seeing at home and what you're trying to do.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Like you had mentioned to me, you at one point were going into the school to do homework with him.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's not sustainable.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: And you're now learning for a private school education.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't ever have to do that.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: And so I would come in as that middle consultant.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, when I work with organizations and and um and schools proper, um, I often call myself a neurodivergent success partner because I am neurodivergent and I am a success partner.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: When I'm working as some people will call me an education advocate, some will call me a special education advocate.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: I call myself a neurodiversity consultant in part because it gets people to lean in and ask me what that means instead of leaning back and be like, my brave, she's here to tell me what to do.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm never, I don't tell my clients what to do, I don't tell the schools what to do.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: I want to understand what they need.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: And then I I help them figure out that path forward.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can definitely see how that would be um a great help.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: And I like, I just feel like I'm not the only one, you know.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I started this podcast because I started having these conversations with other moms.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, is your kid turning?
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, is he turning in?
31:44
SPEAKER_01: Is he having trouble?
31:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, is everybody else in the class having trouble?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: No, but there are a couple that are.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: And so it's and it's, you know, the teachers are amazing.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: They're all supportive, but there's just things that fall through the gaps, right?
31:58
SPEAKER_01: And as a mom who's working from home and businesses and, you know, doing podcasts and having kids, like I want, I want to be the best mom that I can be, and I want to support them.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: You just get to a point where you're like, I don't, I don't know what I don't know.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know what resources are out there.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when I first started the business as Bloom Special Education Advocacy, the my mottos were everyone, every child deserves to live their best life.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And every parenting caregiver deserves the tools and resources to help them get there.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: And it's still on my site because it's a part of what I do.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: And you're absolutely right.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: And no one, the one thing I would tell, I'll say this to you and to anyone that's listening, it's okay to not be okay.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: And you're never gonna know everything.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: I've been doing this 20 years, and there's still a lot for me to learn.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And every circumstance is unique.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: You may be in the same ocean, but you're not on the same boat.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: And so in your situation, Jessica, I would almost, not almost, I would, if you were to come to me and say, here's what's going on, like we're talking about here, and wanting me to come in as working with you, I would offer and I would recommend a dual relationship, one where you could hire me to work with you in some of those facets if you want to advocate.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: But then there's the other side of it, is you your heart is telling you there's more than just your child, and you're even doing this podcast about more than just your child.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: I would say, I would recommend instead of you paying me, let's go to the private school, let's talk to them, let's see if I can go through and do some education with the teachers.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't say teaching or training, I'm saying education.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: So they're teaching something with what they know.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: When I educate them, I'm using things to help them implement and practice and evaluate.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: See, that's where my ripe ideas comes in.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Reflect, implement, practice, and evaluate.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: The I is lowercase, implement in small increments, but then we're threading neurodiversity through everything through a different lens and what they were taught to do and what they've learned how to teach upon.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: So they they so then I'm helping them gain those tools and resources to not just help themselves be even better teachers, but then to help their kids be the best students they can be.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: And and that's like I'm and I love that you went back and you have that executive functioning certification because I didn't know that that was available.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: But that's totally the path that I'm like, do I need to get something to teach me something so I can help educate?
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, because they're all they're brilliant.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, no there's nobody that's dumb or doesn't want to help.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: It's just we only know what we know.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: And we've if we were a teacher for a long time, this is just how we do things.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and not just my little situation.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: I think education in general.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I feel like there's this huge education piece to be able to teach on a nationwide scale, you know, and I guess you're doing this in the trenches and you're seeing all of this.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, big issue across the world, not even the I will say the world.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: At least I can tell you in the UK and in other parts of Europe that I know people in, this is a systemic issue.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: It is not something specific to the states.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: I and and I think, you know, the way our world is changing and the culture and bringing in AI, it's really it's a fascinating time to be having conversations like this.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: I just don't know where it's gonna go.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: But I think there's a lot of people that are like, I don't know where it's going either, but I want to help.
36:01
unknown: Yeah.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: The human element, that's the thing that's never gonna go away.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: People are so afraid that AI is gonna take over the world.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: But the human element, the place where I, that intuition, the place that I've always lived, where I say to my older son sometimes, I was born in the wrong, you know, century or decade.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: And he says, No, you weren't, because you wouldn't get to do what you do every day to help others help themselves had you been born sooner.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: You went through everything you went through, mom, so that you can help others go through it differently.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And your son said that to you because that's the way his brain works, you know, like he he sees it.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: And it's beautiful.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Like I love that we have all of these different thinkings, and it's not we do need people who are linear thinkers, but we need people who think in bubbles as well, right?
36:56
SPEAKER_01: To make these connections.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: And so And we need each other to appreciate them instead of push back against them because I grew up my entire life until I hit burnout having people push against me and me being like a whack-a-mole that just kept getting lower and lower and lower and lower into the ground.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And and now I know that there are lots of people out there like me.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: We're I'm having a conversation with one right here.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: You are one of my people.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: And the more I engage with those that are like me, the more capacity I have to do more and knowing that whole thing about I I can't be everything to everyone, and everyone for me, I'm not, and I'm not for everyone, and that is okay.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: I will just choose to surround myself with those people that lift me up, that are willing to go there with me, and that understand that differences are just that.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: They're not deficits, they are truly just differences.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: And when you get curious to lean in and try to understand one another and appreciate one another versus bringing up things in history that we weren't even alive to see, things will eventually shift for the better if we just let go and lean in.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's beautiful.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: And we have to rely on each other too, right?
38:16
SPEAKER_01: We're not our own little silos.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Like we were made to be in community with each other and have these conversations.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, in fact, I was just looking.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: You're also the author of Confident You, Rock, The Raw Conversations.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, did that is that all part of your story and the burnout process?
38:37
SPEAKER_00: And oh, it is.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, that just gave me chills.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: So the um the uh vision behind it is from um the curator of it, I guess if you will, is Julie DeLuca Collins.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: She had this vision to bring um 20 some of us, I'm gonna say there were 23 in total, together to each write a chapter in this book.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: And so I all of us had been on her podcast at some point in time.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: And there was just something about our stories that just really lit her up and made her think deeply, and just she thought that the world needed to hear some of our stories.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: And so that is how I became an author.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've had published like tongues and stuff, but that's how I had my first chapter in a book.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and my chapter is chapter 12 in the book, and it's called Unbecoming to Become.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: Finding the chaos.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: And um I would be happy to share a PDF copy of my chapter with you.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Anyone that wants the chapter, I'm happy to share it with them.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: If they drop an email in the show notes, and then they just say that you're the way that they found out at me, that way I can track that for you too.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the book itself, all the proceeds go to a one of a few nonprofits.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: We were rotating through that nonprofitist, so we don't even have it.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: It's us giving back.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's amazing stories in there in all different facets.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, mine's just one of the many.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's neat.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that that PDF too with our audience.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: I think it's something we can read a chapter.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: It's not a whole book.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: We can we can read the chapter for sure.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it goes into a little bit about my burnout.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, it goes into how I'm became to become, right?
40:30
SPEAKER_00: Um I really got back to being free to be me for the first time in many, many years.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: It has a little snippet into how I've worked with a professional client and and changed their trajectory, how I worked with a parent client and changed their trajectory.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: So there's little snippets of fake questions in there, some takeaways.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I definitely encourage you if anything we talked about here just resonates with your audience, they would probably get something out of it.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'll definitely um share with the chapter with you as well.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'll definitely follow up and we'll put a link in the show notes so everybody has that as well.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, oh gosh, I wish we could keep talking.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's so many, so many things that we could pick apart and just ask more about and just even your personal story.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being very candid and talking about your personal journey.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not easy.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: But we're still here and we learn resilience and we have hope that it the connections and these stories, um, it's what makes us human.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: As you said, you know, we are supposed to be in community with each other.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: And if I'm not helping others help themselves, and what's the point?
41:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not gonna help the world, but if I can change the world for one person, then it's worth it.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like just even this conversation with the two of us, um, I've learned things today and um gotten to know another person who belongs in my in my world.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm grateful for for that.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: And uh I'd be happy to have another conversation with you.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: I think, like you said, we could go down many different pathways.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'd I'd love to have you back on the show again.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, even just figuring out how, you know, next steps for parents who are navigating this and of course reaching out to you.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: And I again I'll have those in the show notes too, so people can reach out to you personally.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: Um there's just there's so much work to be done, you know, and I get overwhelmed with oh, like I said, big picture, like it needs to be in all the schools and we need to educate.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: And but it's these little steps that lead up to that and the connection.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: I that's the little I think ideas.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: Implementing inclusivity takes a lot of time and effort and intentional effort.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: Intention.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: And um what you're doing is absolutely helping more people than it helped before you started doing it.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: So there's, you know, every day that you show up and have these conversations with people like me and people different than me, because we all come through a different lens, um, the more you're helping the world.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: So um I think as both of us, we're both diagnosed ADHD, it's that um we gotta get it done, we gotta get it done.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: And I feel that pressure every day you go, gotta it's gotta get done, gotta get done.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: It never stops.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: The biggest thing I learned when I hit burnout was the world's gonna keep moving no matter how fast I go.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: And that if I do one thing really well, it's better than me trying to get 10 things done done in the day.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: And I have learned to go slow to go fast, and it is the most freeing feeling.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: If I need to sit on the couch and not lift because I've already done that or whatever, or one day I need to take a break and I literally just need my body to relax or go to sleep or whatever, I give myself permission to do that now.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: And as an eight-ageder and then a mom of an eight-aged year, if when we're not listening to our bodies as moms, so and and I've got two, right?
44:06
SPEAKER_00: My other one's autistic and other, they both have lots of neurodifferences.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: But when we're not giving ourselves permission to take that time for us, you may too end up in burnout like I did.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: And if that is if that's the only thing people get out of my story is don't go there because it's not fun.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: Um I've been there too, because it's it's not a fun place to be.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't wish it on anyone.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: No.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: And and I think a lot of us find ourselves out uh on like a little uh it's a burnout cycle.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: So maybe not a completely crash and burn, but a repetitive burnout cycle that we're not recognizing as burnout.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, listen to your body.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: Listen to your body, especially his mom.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: And and listen and then do something about it.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: Don't just say, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: I'll take a break.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Don't do the elephant in the room.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Don't name it and tame it and then brush it under the rug.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: I like to call it um the moose on the table.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, you need to get in there and have that difficult conversation and move through those pieces so that you can release them and then you can move forward.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: Because if you just name them and tame them and brush them under the rug, they come back up.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: Still there out you they come back with vengeance.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they reproduce under the carpet.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: Like gremlins, right?
45:31
SPEAKER_01: Yes, like gremlins.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: You pour a little water on them, and oh, that movie terrified me as a kid.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh, how funny.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: So, well, Lisa, I appreciate you being on the show.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: You're just a wealth of information, and I hope people um reach out to you.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we're just in the middle of that chaos and we don't know how to fix something, and it's nice that you're available.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: You've you've had this story, you have the background, you know what to do.
45:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's so nice having that resource.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: So, Lisa, thank you for sharing your story and being here.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: It's been a lot of fun.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to today's show.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: Just embrace one thing today that really stood out to you.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: Just one quick win.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: That's the whole idea.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: Small shifts, real relief, built for the way your brain actually works.
46:17
SPEAKER_01: Grab the free resources at theadhdmom.com.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: And if this episode was really useful or helpful to you, share it with someone who could really use a win today.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Have a beautiful week.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time.