Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (3/7)

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Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (3/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:41
If the Doctor Who commentary podcast and I have to count
0:45
myself in this. So it's a thing I am here today
0:50
with the Glorious. Toby.
0:51
Hey doakes say hello? Toby.
0:54
Hello, Joe and Toothless. It's a thing, isn't it?
0:58
That you have to do this several times?
1:00
It wasn't the evening because these episodes do not go out
1:02
together. Yes, indeed!
1:06
Yes! Yes!
1:06
We! Yes, it's odd because we're yes,
1:08
we do the same thing over and over again during the same
1:11
conversation because it's broken up when it goes, it's not
1:15
locked. I have, I'm afraid everybody.
1:16
We, we, it's the opposite of Doctor Who on UK gold.
1:21
We make it as an Omnibus and then we split it.
1:24
Episodes, it's also not edited as well.
1:26
That's the trouble with a commentary.
1:27
Is that what you say goes in? Just in case?
1:30
Some bugger, actually watches it alongside the material, to be
1:35
honest, a two words to you and I want to hear what sort of a
1:39
reaction. I get Carrie blight early.
1:43
Ha ha ha. It sounds like a robot is making
1:50
music when you used to push a two blades of grass next to it,
1:56
or fold a bar graph. Make that noise says, that looks
1:59
like. So it's like a robot's decided
2:02
to do that. I do like the Doctor Who
2:05
discontinuity guides description of it as a synthesized, Gazoo
2:10
synthesizer kazoo, I think is Is also a pretty good.
2:17
Pretty good server. It's yeah, it's like a it's,
2:20
it's sort of like a comb being played by static electricity.
2:25
It's a bizarre. It's it is a b, a crumpled horn.
2:29
Isn't it? Actually not that.
2:33
That particularly the proprietor of a that actually is the one
2:38
that we think of, but there are lots of other different sound
2:42
motif. I think get overshadowed by
2:45
either that one like the drip at the cave noise, the dripping
2:49
cave sort of Atmos music I think is very evocative and the farm.
2:56
The farm waking up in the morning is you know, does
2:59
exactly what it needs to do. Sort of tonally.
3:02
I like the fact that one, I think one of the strengths of
3:09
Doctor Who is that it is not a uniform.
3:13
Orm program. And that a different director
3:16
could come in a different writer, can come in and a
3:20
different designer different costume, designer different
3:24
musician and one, or all of those might suddenly make a left
3:28
field choice, that gives a story.
3:31
A particular thing that as a fan, when you're then coming
3:34
into it as a collector who's going back over the history of
3:37
the show, what you've got, your idea of what doctor who looks
3:40
sounds like, and then you each individual story How's the thing
3:43
about it that you could not possibly have anticipated and I
3:47
don't think I could possibly accept dissipated that.
3:53
That, you know, that the solarians would be accompanied
3:57
by the noise of table being rogered, buy a lawnmower, it's
4:04
like slightly. You really the clangers having
4:09
an asthma attack or whatever it is that At Caribe lightning is
4:14
doing, but I think I think Doctor Who is the show that you
4:20
can go? Well, let's see what let's see
4:23
it. Let's see if this works.
4:26
And I I kind of liked his music for the silurians better than I
4:30
like his. I think his music is is it an
4:33
oboe or a clarinet in death to the Daleks seems to me to rob
4:38
the Daleks of any Menace? They might have.
4:41
I think that's the worst way to score.
4:43
Daleks is to score them in this slightly sort of comical Meucci
4:50
way and we know that his music was slightly changed a bit for
4:54
for revenge or that's got some nice bits in it.
4:57
But I know you said two words and I've just said about 150
5:01
million, I'm sorry, but I'm very great jokes is what I said was,
5:07
I quite like, I like Carrie blyton's music.
5:11
Probably more in principle, that In practice, but I also wouldn't
5:14
have it any other way. I've got several things that
5:18
were one thing I'll just say, about death to the Daleks.
5:20
Okay? I'll saw that VHS and played it
5:23
a 100 times over when I was a Nipper.
5:27
So you could tell where to you're blue in the face of that
5:29
terrible music, I can harm every part of it and I still think
5:33
it's mine. It's terrible.
5:39
But has so synonymous with my first watch of that.
5:43
Like I just it's my brain tells me.
5:46
It's like you never forget. Your first watch, you never do.
5:51
Also Tim, Coombs has a wonderful story of carry blind, phoning
5:57
him up in the dead of night and going, I've got this, I've got
6:01
the sound for the silurians and then playing that extraordinary
6:05
noise down the phone and Tim came just goes all right.
6:09
We'll talk about it in the morning.
6:10
So apparently he's he's given us a lot of food.
6:13
All you know, because he's playing an old instrument, isn't
6:16
it? That's why it sounds so that
6:17
that that's right. It's not just come out of
6:20
nowhere. He's using the instrumentation
6:23
that is most like what cave people might have played on
6:27
early music, you know. So he's had some kind of you
6:31
know Thoughts with it. It's not just happened in a sort
6:34
of vacuum that he's filled with crazy noise.
6:39
It's you know, he's reached the choice.
6:43
Of instruments through intellectual means I would
6:47
argue. That's not always the best idea.
6:49
But nonetheless you can't fault his.
6:51
You can't fault the ideology behind it but you know, it is
6:55
weird and weird when I was young was a bit spooky but I couldn't
7:00
it's like mine Clark score for the cedar but I couldn't quite
7:02
get a handle on it, so that freaked me out of it.
7:06
When I was watching it. Well, for me, Malcolm Clark and
7:09
sea Devils is slightly different because I had Dr. Who the music,
7:13
the vinyl record released. And I remember getting that and,
7:18
of course, this was when you couldn't get episodes.
7:20
So listening to the music was a bit like, and I'm sort of
7:23
touching that episode it. Sell, I remember playing that a
7:26
night. I'd got an old record player
7:28
that I bought from a 50-50 auction for like 2 pounds and I
7:35
and it had four different speeds on it. 16. 33 45 and 78 and I
7:40
assumed I was playing it at the wrong speed because it was this
7:44
you know who are in desperate need of a safe word but it's
7:57
not, it's not unlike the noise, maybe it would be an electronic
8:02
fox in a blender. But whatever it is Fox is get up
8:06
to @midnight. Maxim quite alarming sort of
8:10
noises. And and so I remember listening
8:14
to Malcolm Clark's famous, sea Devils sweet and just going,
8:18
this is not what I expected at all.
8:21
That is not music and then seeing the sea doubles
8:24
afterwards and going. Oh okay.
8:26
It fits within the story, actually quite nicely to go.
8:29
No. It's that bit is here and I can
8:32
and it works much better as a piece of incidental music than
8:35
it does a something to dance to in your room.
8:37
But that's a lesson I think probably many a doctor who fan
8:40
has learned when trying to Funk along to Roger limbs Arc of
8:43
infinity school. It's not quite the self, I don't
8:46
know what to say. Well ah us I just one more thing
8:58
about Kai, right battery? That stores a brilliant story
9:01
but you refuse to name their composure and I swear as carry
9:04
flyer about Somebody who worked on Doctor, Who couple of times
9:11
that I know comedy Simpson, because Barry, Let's Talk
9:13
Amongst do all sorts certainly that hounded him after he left
9:19
up to her and said, you know, use me again, use me again.
9:22
You and he had to finally talk to her.
9:24
As I know, your sort of style of music, I don't like it.
9:28
Please leave me alone. You know, I swear that must be
9:32
carried by Tyson, that must be carried like near because he
9:36
for, I'm Barry. Well, I do admire his honesty.
9:41
Yeah. Well, you have to be because
9:43
actually, you can get yourself into trouble.
9:45
I mean, I booked a comedy club for many, many years, and I
9:48
still am see it. And I've actually farmed the
9:50
booking off to other people, because I was very, very bad at
9:54
saying no to people. And I did end up booking people,
9:56
that I didn't think we're right. And then I'd have to work harder
9:59
as the MC, Or I'd sort of go. Oh no.
10:05
Phone me again in a week and you think we'll probably still
10:07
hasn't got away a week later and you almost you sort of want
10:11
somebody to just go. No but you don't want to be that
10:14
guy, you know, which is why I'm not very good at booking things
10:17
which is why I would be a very bad producer because to be a
10:20
producer you have to be does I'm sure Barry Letts did it in a way
10:24
where he wasn't horrible about it because you don't you also
10:29
you know this is quite cruel business based on rejection.
10:31
You don't You don't want to be somebody that makes people
10:34
somebody feel bad. Although of course saying to
10:37
them. No, I'm not going to employ you
10:38
because I don't like what you do is going to make them feel bad,
10:41
but you've got to try and do it in a way that that is as nice as
10:46
possible. But that is really hard, he
10:48
tried evasion and eat right act. So they just had to get the
10:51
hammer out and should be honest. Well, and also sometimes people
10:55
don't help themselves. Don't take the hint and that's
10:57
when you can get, and I have actually found myself feeling a
11:00
bit. So for example, Example, when an
11:03
act comes and does the gig I dies on there are ice for 25
11:07
minutes. They're always the one that will
11:09
phone you. The next morning asking for
11:11
another gig. You know, I'll come on, read the
11:13
room. Well, what are you problem is,
11:15
you can't read the road is bad for stand up, but but that but
11:18
then you find yourself getting a bit, but and then it's a lot
11:21
easier to go. Well, actually, no because you
11:23
kind of you've brought this upon yourself, because I know if I
11:27
have been in your position, I would have, you know, I'd have
11:30
let the smell going out of the room before I Before I ask
11:33
somebody to kick come come and join me in it again, you know,
11:37
so you, you know, sometimes people leave you, no choice.
11:42
I'll um, I'll press play in the second because I'm aware 10
11:46
minutes into this episode now. But I, it was an interesting
11:49
topic. I'll give the last word to more
11:52
cares then about carry Blyton because I think he is it an
11:57
incredible musician. The things like man, does it
12:00
sound almost there? He loves these experimental /.
12:06
We scores because they are a bit different from the normal.
12:09
I think he's a delight as a Nipper in really made him.
12:12
Pay attention to sounds and the sort of creative uses of it.
12:16
And the the sort of weirdness the weird atmosphere that you
12:20
can conjure with it. And, you know, let's not forget
12:23
that's what the doctor who themed she was doing right back
12:25
from day one. Yeah yeah I think it's
12:29
absolutely true and Dot one of the was about Doctor, Who is
12:33
that? It soundscape is so very
12:35
different from everything else. And again, it's one of those
12:37
programs where you can afford to throw something in from the
12:42
field in a way that you can't with a medical drama or a
12:45
detective drama, it would be, it would be too distracting whereas
12:48
with Doctor Who you've kind of got a bit more license and
12:52
that's an another of the joys of it.
12:55
And, I mean, I love Marigold I think Marigold is is very, very
12:59
good. You know, I sometimes listen to
13:04
Marigold soundtracks when I'm walking through the park.
13:08
But do I dad sometimes his stuff helps me to really cry, but I
13:17
like a lot of modern television where, you know, you have to
13:19
know you're watching the same program.
13:21
It's just what we're expected to do these days.
13:24
I quite like that. We're Doctor Who, you know, the
13:29
week after doctor in the silurian.
13:31
Episode 7, you've got sort of Dudley Simpson, doing the sort
13:36
of Procol Harum kind of lovely, orchestrated, melodic Space
13:43
Music of the ambassador's of death and that's also got their
13:46
sort of dumb thumping public really atmospheric but quite
13:49
it's got the unit theme in it as well.
13:51
That's quite tuneful and that's within a week of each other and
13:54
you suddenly go well they're the most legitimate scores for
13:56
Doctor Who but they're both two very creative and interesting
13:59
people. Interesting.
14:01
Particular brief in a totally different way.
14:03
And I love that that you can go. Oh, this is this is suddenly I
14:07
don't know what to expect now because it's different where
14:10
that bus? That's cause one of my
14:12
favorites, you know, it's great. I'm spending.
14:15
So that comment. Read your fur?
14:16
No, I wasn't thinking one. Well, mr.
14:18
Weird ambient. Sounds isn't it again?
14:21
Never approach. Well, I'll tell you what.
14:23
This is, I'm watching with the mute button on.
14:25
Should we watch Doctor Who in the silurians?
14:27
And I won't listen to the score okey-dokey.
14:30
I think Actually, I can actually hear the music but only just
14:35
because my speaker is far away Dougal, right?
14:39
Would you like to count as in? Well, let us start watching
14:43
Doctor Who are the silurians episode 3 in 3 2 1.
14:50
You know if I'd have asked you that question after we press
14:53
play, you'd be halfway to bed but now and he ha ha ha.
15:00
Yeah. Well, there we go.
15:01
Sorry. I do I do.
15:02
Go on. I wouldn't interrupt you for a
15:05
second. What did I think?
15:08
Probably you should Som some time and we are Doctor Who, and
15:12
the silurians, which of course, he goes to Great pains to
15:18
explain why they shouldn't have been called silurians when we
15:21
get to see devils. And then Doctor Who just ignores
15:23
the for the rest of time. Anyway, you better.
15:26
That's how. Core is that less?
15:29
I think it's I think it's Hulk making amends, right?
15:34
Yeah but but then the show the show just ignores that anyway.
15:38
Solar it silurians is a great name is fantastic.
15:41
It's not the ice for just it is they've been labeled and that's
15:44
it. That's them.
15:46
Yeah. Kyrie well ads and even the sea
15:50
devils. No, that's just terribly racist
15:53
and it's like, what sea Devils? Well and yeah, they're, you
16:02
know, they're named but they're named by Declan Mulholland.
16:05
There have been great made by Jabba, the Hutt, in an orange
16:07
jumper because all their sea devils are that.
16:09
That's what everybody knows them as well.
16:12
They look at least I'd know, can I just say that I visited Leeds
16:15
Castle this week and did a fine Declan Mulholland impression, as
16:19
I was attempting to wrestle with the door.
16:28
You know, I Rod what I've rather like about this era as well is
16:31
that you get people living in cottages and things like that.
16:35
I like that there's a real there's a real feeling of
16:38
plausibility behind behind this and there's a great line.
16:41
That doesn't dr. Lawrence say something like you
16:45
know is in that Cottage writing that book of his you know I've
16:48
just as a sort of life that these people have and This
16:52
reminds me of the sort of houses that were and I grew up in the
16:55
middle of the countryside of the middle of nowhere.
16:57
So this reminds me very much of the sort of houses that were
16:59
around the area that I grew up in.
17:02
So and it's such a good set that I can, I can kind of feel what
17:05
the air would have. Felt like I can smell that room.
17:08
I know exactly what that's like an it and it speaks to me
17:12
therefore of everybody having a life outside of Doctor Who.
17:16
And I always think that out of the drama and I always think
17:19
that's that's good writing. Anyway and good.
17:21
Everything else, but particularly in Doctor Who
17:24
because Doctor, Who has such so many obstacles of ridiculousness
17:28
to overcome. If you're of a mind to be held
17:32
up by by the Ridiculousness is of the central concept and what
17:35
is needed for the stories. I think anything that Roots it
17:39
in a reality, it's recognizable. Well, it not only helps with the
17:45
with the contrast between the everyday and the alien but it
17:49
also it. So that that dissonance between,
17:54
you know, plausible reality and great imaginative, Spooks and
17:57
scares, but it also helps to Route the Fantastical within the
18:03
recognizable at that. I always think helps Doctor Who,
18:07
and we've just had a beautiful bit where they thought it was an
18:09
alien, and it was a chicken and they all laugh at the cliche and
18:12
that was rather nice to see. That's why it's all makes the
18:16
Cliffhanger after this episode really scary for kids because
18:20
it's the monster coming tearing into Your living room.
18:23
Yeah. Yeah.
18:25
And I think Russell T Davies gets that as well because I
18:28
would never forget that moment where the side man pushes, open
18:31
the door and then there's the kids and the pair and caring on
18:35
the stairs and I'm like a giddy just get see, you know why is he
18:39
carried? He gets it.
18:41
Yeah yeah here I'm going to say as well.
18:43
In terms of like design I think 70s doctor who gets cozy living
18:48
rooms spot on you know. No.
18:53
Yeah. Yeah, I think what in the stones
18:56
of blood, you know, and came on and Company and you know, but it
19:01
leads into as well as to why we're on Earth, isn't it?
19:04
Because this is all stuff that they probably got lying around
19:06
because they you know lots of BBC dramas, I sit in living
19:09
rooms. Yes, but of course then you have
19:14
the trouble of. You don't want it to look like
19:16
everything else. Because although it has to be
19:20
grounded in the reality Doctor Who also has to, you know, take
19:23
you out of the everyday or otherwise it just looks like,
19:26
you know, do what your casualty or whatever, but with the
19:29
occasional person dressed as a lizard in it, that's again where
19:32
where carry blight and kind of helps because sure, he takes you
19:36
into a different direction, it's funny.
19:39
I celebrate the fact that this is on filming in front of bales
19:42
of hay because it looks realistic and grounded but I
19:47
also celebrate the fact that it's Mad and Fantastical and
19:50
crazy as well. And it's it's getting the
19:52
balance, right? That really I think is what
19:56
makes the best Doctor Who work is when it when it balances, the
20:00
disparate things that it has to nail ties into some unusual set
20:07
of things that it has to nail. Don't do, I won't tell you where
20:10
and I don't hear you walk but that does tie into one of my
20:13
choices, you know, for one of the episodes of happy times and
20:17
places of dumb There are any further than that, but that,
20:21
that sort of juxtaposition of the extraordinary and the
20:24
ordinary. I mean, you can do that.
20:26
Yes, Hayes in season 7. Yes, yes, I know I just remember
20:36
this this mall and stuff is brilliantly shot.
20:39
And you know, the music here is like flares of the helicopter.
20:43
Boom. Yeah.
20:44
It's quite it's quite jolly. It's something that it's
20:50
something that old stuff seems to do with military stuff is is
20:54
it always has a sort of Jolly pop a boat.
20:57
Was it even The Invasion which has that grinding metallic
21:01
clanging score that unit theme is all 0 which only soldiers who
21:05
dijo dijo and and you wouldn't do that now.
21:08
But the seems to be soldiering is much more tied up with the
21:13
sort of trooping of the color kind of idea than it is with
21:18
People in fatigues and action and be out, you know, if you
21:21
want to be a man, join the we, you know, I think now we present
21:25
the Army and the military as with sort of pumping action
21:31
sweat hard as well as and it's not just Doctor Who that does
21:35
this. If you watch old a lot of old
21:37
films that that that yeah, the, the sort of Pomp and ceremony of
21:43
the army, infests the way that they are soundtracked, which I
21:48
think is Like the unusual to a modern viewer and it never quite
21:53
works for me because it seems slightly old-fashioned.
21:58
I don't see soldiers as, you know, as to get a Best
22:01
dramatically out of soldiers. I don't think of them being
22:05
Jolly. I think of them as being hard
22:07
and capable and fighting and hard.
22:10
It's dangerous, you know, saying that that I'm a lovely officer
22:14
bombs sort of thing. The unit theme for a masters of
22:17
death. Which is very out, be its
22:21
glorious. That is that is a great theme
22:25
and I loved when I know purchased that it was the same
22:28
theme in the mind of evil but it had been done electronically
22:31
because it's the same piece of music but it's done on different
22:33
instruments that I'm all for a cover version.
22:39
It's almost like they've done for the ambassador's of death.
22:43
They've done the mind of evil version in the lock.
22:44
I have Lounge, you know, that's what it feels like.
22:47
I know I keep What about sold moments of Direction?
22:51
But there's a POV shot from the helicopter sweeping across
22:57
Moreland and I love who does this?
23:00
It's very rare. There's a shot similar in enemy
23:04
of the world episode 1, when the helicopters pulling away and you
23:08
get that fabulous shot of it. Yes.
23:10
As it's going further and very well and a few shots actually, I
23:13
think they might have been stock shots in invasion of the
23:16
dinosaurs of there. They are stock shots invasion of
23:20
dinosaurs but yeah s yes but it's just something you don't
23:23
normally see on a show like Doctor Who that has you know a
23:28
very small absolutely. Aren't you which makes it stand
23:31
out with them or when you know you have something as impressive
23:33
as that. I just think this this
23:36
absolutely really impressive visuals in this.
23:40
Yeah, that the fit that and, you know, none of this is, you know,
23:44
this is none of this is really vital storytelling.
23:47
Basically, we've spotted one of the monsters and, you know, they
23:51
don't end up catching him. But, but it's so well, staged.
23:57
And it's so So, compellingly tolls that it's, you know, this
24:05
this stands up as a really entertaining and Atmospheric its
24:10
atmospheric, even though it's on wide-open Moreland, which seems
24:14
counterintuitive, but it just seems to work.
24:16
And all the hardware on this play is absolutely
24:19
extraordinary. I think it's fabulous but it's
24:21
one of them all and during the day as well.
24:26
Yeah. Yeah.
24:28
But it's greatly and I can I can smell the air, I could feel the
24:31
cold. Yes, of this Salva Heather and
24:35
we supposed to think, dr. Quinn is a bad man.
24:42
Well again that's why I quite like Fulton McCoy's playing of
24:45
it, I know that but we didn't see eye-to-eye with Makai
24:48
because I believe Fulton would sort of pull focus a little bit
24:53
with with where he would where he would stand up stage.
24:56
You know, I was talking to was talking to somebody the other
25:00
day was talking about working with an actor as a young actor
25:05
and people hated it because you just had your back to that, you
25:09
had your, you know, they were that they would act up stage.
25:12
Everybody else a turn and face them.
25:14
So, you know you as a young actor everybody just saw your
25:16
back you know the actors could sort of do that.
25:19
They can you can pull Focus if you want to it's quite easy to
25:22
do. If your if your peril I'm John
25:25
says in the commentary she goes for tabak a would be like okay
25:29
John if you just stand there started me here Caroline.
25:32
If you could just stand this side of me here and she's like
25:35
we knew what he was up to. You was the truth.
25:37
Exactly what you were saying. They're like right center of the
25:41
screen. Which which are, you know, I can
25:46
kind of look at with sort of rueful, admiration from here.
25:51
But if I was there, I'd be furious.
25:53
You know? So, you know, it's it's a bit.
25:56
I'm just watching Ali, you know, it's great, fun watching.
25:58
No, all Gordon being this, you know, commanding battle axe.
26:01
Because it so, isn't it? Jolly fun that you go?
26:04
Yeah, except actually unless you're there, in which case it's
26:07
a giant pain in the ass. If your she is a bitch, But
26:16
like, you know, scientific secrets of this, I Louis, I
26:22
don't think he's painted on sympathetically.
26:25
In this? No, no.
26:29
He's a little bit. just at, you know, he hasn't he's as a couple
26:36
of bits isn't the with with Miss Dawson when he says, you know,
26:39
that the power eyes, the knowledge I shall gain is worth
26:42
any risk and he's one of those I'm even doctors Doctor Who
26:48
Always has that sort of two way conversation with science,
26:52
doesn't it? You know, Sciences has been the
26:54
key to all the great breakthroughs in Doctor Who but
26:58
also science. Always also comes with a warning
27:02
and I've just listened to you guys talking brilliantly about
27:05
planet of evil and that, that wonderful line of, you know, we
27:11
we by the cost of our experimentation that you are
27:15
right to experiment at the cost of total responsibility.
27:18
And when you're writing about, you know, scientific
27:21
breakthroughs. Well, we know that scientific
27:24
breakthroughs have been responsible that have been
27:26
pursued with great zealousness are responsible for Vital and
27:32
important, breakthroughs and need that kind of commitment.
27:34
And that, that is it still a tree or zealousness?
27:37
I don't know. We'll have both.
27:38
But if the science is wrong, or it's bad, that zealousness, then
27:44
becomes Further. So.
27:50
But you don't know that until you've made the Breakthrough.
27:53
You know who, you know, you know, when, when the atom was
28:00
first broken or whatever, you know, that was a amazing
28:03
breakthrough, but it, but it does open up the the
28:05
possibilities to do, terrible, terrible, terrible things, all
28:08
this class. The constant argument, the
28:10
Doctor Who has with itself. Almost this sequence here,
28:15
Johnny, I love this style of acting aware, you know,
28:17
everything's got Double meaning he's coming in all polite is
28:22
their absolute but I do know my sympathies entirely with Fulton
28:26
McKay here. Some you know arrogant asshole
28:29
came stomping into my house playing about with the
28:32
thermometer this There's a brilliant episode of The X-Files
28:37
isn't that? Which is shown from the monsters
28:39
point of view, and murderer. And Scully I sort of really an
28:43
annoyed. I can't remember what the
28:44
monster is. It's just a guy.
28:46
He's a guy that eats people or whatever, but it, but I will
28:49
just gonna keep this is not like 37 is in Syria 7.
28:53
It's called hungry and is fabulous.
28:56
They're just really annoying. They're like irritated pair of
28:58
Colombo's guide to think and that's sort of what they're
29:02
doing here is that? And the doctor sort of knows,
29:05
Being annoying which is also quite funny and perp is very
29:09
good at this sort of stuff. I love the walls in this.
29:12
In this the white walls with the slight cracks in them.
29:16
What's terrific is not a place that we said?
29:19
Yeah, yeah, he plays it sort of for laughs and then he suddenly
29:23
just drops it and goes, you know, you save yourself a lot of
29:25
time. If you just tell me the truth,
29:27
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Then they didn't catch it, you
29:31
know, which I like as well. But then then when you think
29:33
it's over is then is looking through the window.
29:35
He is enjoying exactly a way of times.
29:43
That's great, he's fabulous, he's fabulous, but what it is
29:50
when dr. Quinn die, I think he's deaf.
29:55
There's a moment of Pathos and We see Miss Dawson's reaction to
29:59
that which is pure horror and then obviously that pushes the
30:02
plot because then suddenly we're saying no these things are
30:05
dangerous, they've got to be destroyed.
30:09
Yes, well, that's that's Twisted as well, which almost because
30:18
obviously, we kind of learn that it is killed Quinn, because he
30:22
was, he was, he was demanding too much and he was expecting
30:26
to, but we don't quite see enough of that, of him with
30:31
them, which I suppose leaves open to interpretation.
30:36
And I think, There's the bit later on.
30:38
Is that the weather when it looks like the doctors managed
30:40
to persuade everybody? Then Miss Dawson just comes in
30:42
and goes I've just found dr. Quinn, he's dead, we've got a
30:45
kill of its out damn, because the doctor has no answer to that
30:50
because he knows that they have. So his, his getting everyone to
30:55
cooperate with the solarians is, is based on him, giving
30:58
selective evidence. Actually, because he knows that
31:01
if he tells them that dr. Quinn's dead, that's talking to
31:04
so that opens up whole, I listened to a Podcast with
31:09
somebody the other day, who's from my sort of liberal left
31:13
side and he was sort of he was advocating.
31:16
The fact that we, you know, to get our idea, you know, to get
31:19
to get the sort of liberal consensus out there.
31:22
It doesn't matter if we do it through nefarious means or
31:26
dishonest means you go. No, I don't think you can do
31:29
that because that's, that's contrary to actually your
31:32
ideology. But his point is, but if we
31:34
believe our ideology is Right, we've got to do that, by any
31:37
means necessary. Sorry and I'm sorry, but that
31:39
doesn't, that make us them in that way.
31:42
And that's, that's kind of what you're having here.
31:44
You're sort of go. Well, I know the doctors right,
31:47
but but but to be right he has to be dishonest.
31:52
I love the show goes in, it doesn't go there very often but
31:56
when it does go there, I think that's yeah, although
32:00
interesting than just black and white.
32:03
Yes, and I have to say not you. No no I mean I know I know dr.
32:10
Lawrence is, you know, sort of generally peeved and she said he
32:15
nearly breaks through to her there and and major Baker's
32:18
fraud. But but every everybody in this
32:22
is acting Rationally with their own within their own frame of
32:27
reference. And I think that's great.
32:29
You're not having to have somebody being.
32:31
It's very interesting that Jeffrey parma's. politician is
32:36
not like the politicians later at the Pertwee era is not
32:39
restitution is really like Walker Walker in the sea Devils
32:44
where they're you know, buffoons It.
32:48
And he's actually probably more reasonable than everybody else.
32:51
Whereas, I think a couple of Seasons later he would have come
32:53
in and been. Well, I'm not sharing cabinet
32:55
meetings with a green chap. Know about, you know, I think
32:58
it's much it to me, it works much better because everybody
33:02
here is as I say, I think I think they From their own
33:12
perspective. They're they're right.
33:13
They're not being bad, they're not being an avaricious.
33:16
They're not being unkind. They're they're doing what they
33:21
think is the right thing to get the best outcome, but it's
33:23
something that you said about Rusty, Davis is writing before,
33:26
as well. I think Hulk is the same is that
33:28
he doesn't condemn those people, even if they've got different
33:32
ideologies to him and that's really interesting.
33:40
Sorry called, it's having sympathy for people, even if you
33:43
think they're wrong. I mean, I think that needs to
33:48
happen in modern discourse as well, outside of fiction.
33:51
But that's a whole other story, let people, you know, people may
33:55
be wrong but they may just be wrong rather than bad, they may
33:59
just be wrong. And business in a recently won
34:03
in, this is kind of wrong. Oh, well sure why there's
34:06
nothing to do with ideology at always entirely serious subject,
34:09
taste. I hit a Time of the Doctor
34:11
commentary which is an episode. I dislike intensely with
34:15
somebody that adores it. And I think I've mastered the
34:21
ability to disagree agreeably. It's, we've got very different
34:26
opinions but I wanted to hear what you have to say.
34:31
Yeah, absolutely. No.
34:32
I know the certainly is a certainly isn't did you see
34:37
them? Dismissed.
34:38
Awesome, going in and and and it's almost giving dr.
34:41
Quinn, what like one last Lifeline like go and speak to
34:45
them later close to the truth. Maybe if he had in, she doesn't
34:50
look like that. The book either she's got sort
34:52
of a mini skirt and long blond hair in the book because there's
34:55
a picture isn't because she's she's actually there when dr.
34:58
Quinn gets killed, isn't she? Gee, there's a picture of the
35:01
silurian, I sort of killing dr. Quinn.
35:04
Okay, yeah. I love all those those pictures
35:11
inside the target books. So, when did you first watch
35:15
this Jo? When 2000 produced, when I got
35:17
my bootleg copy, right and then and how how far into your
35:22
Pertwee viewership was it though?
35:24
How much but we had you seen before?
35:28
I seen a lot of the early vhss I had those.
35:32
So, I Had the Time Warrior unedited, I had death to the
35:36
Daleks unedited, so I still think it's bizarre when those
35:39
clips when that flooring Cliffhanger in death, to the
35:42
Daleks hits, what's going on, you know?
35:45
Well, several reasons really, but I know I pieced together
35:50
Pertwee, and basically classic Who, because I came by my first
35:54
Doctor, Who story was Battlefield?
35:55
So I came in right at the end. Excited for the next season.
36:00
So I saw I collected the VHS is I had the talk bootleg copies
36:04
coming and I put the picture together a little bit of time,
36:08
like a big jigsaw. I was most wonderful decade of
36:12
my life, I think. You know, I've done if I've said
36:17
it on your podcast and I apologize if I'm repeating
36:20
myself. I actually feel slightly, sorry
36:23
for younger fans, purely for my own perspective is that the
36:28
archaeology of being a fan when stuff wasn't available.
36:33
When you suddenly saw pictures of the celestial toymaker, for
36:36
the first time in the radio times 20th anniversary special,
36:39
or you discovered that the books were different to some of the
36:41
series or a new pieced it together.
36:45
ER, and your understanding of the show and all its differences
36:50
and changes and developments sometimes took years.
36:53
I feel so lucky because it was, everything was so exciting over
36:58
a very long period of time. And I remember when I started
37:01
getting the bootlegs at a much quicker rate, because I met some
37:04
people who had who had access to them, I actually excited, got
37:10
slightly less exciting because it was like, eating all the
37:12
sweets at once. You know, I suddenly had You
37:15
know, a VHS with your, a set of four or five different stories
37:19
and I'm motored through them all.
37:20
Whereas, when I first started collecting, I could only get one
37:24
or two at a time. So, I had to savor that and
37:26
it's, it was a, it was a bit like having, you know, a lovely
37:31
mini bit of Cordon Bleu that you savored every Taste of add,
37:35
because you knew you weren't getting the next one for a
37:37
while. Whereas now, of course, if
37:40
you're young and you watch, you've just watched Jodie
37:46
Whittaker change and you go. What is this show?
37:49
Well you can get it all in a touch of a button.
37:51
You know where as you know, you watching Battlefield had to work
37:56
out where to get all this stuff from.
37:58
And I think we're so lucky in that regard, I can still
38:01
remember getting the war games for the first time and forcing
38:06
myself to ration it and episode in the eyes, I worked early in
38:10
the morning, then tied get up an hour earlier and the excitement
38:14
of way. Waking up and I would do one
38:16
episode in the morning before work and I can still remember
38:19
that buzz watching those episode but as well, when I had the law
38:27
then I was chasing that feeling. Again, I'm having like a new
38:30
classic Doctor Who. So when I never thought I was
38:33
going to happen again when enemy of the world and web of fear
38:37
will return to the archives. I almost didn't want to fly up.
38:42
This is my one chance to feel like this again.
38:44
You know and boy they didn't disappoint, neither of them.
38:48
But yeah, it was it was a great way of and I think as well like
38:53
because you do pull it together, like archaeology did knowledge
38:58
in beds, you know, in a way that if you just finished it, now, it
39:02
would be so disposable. I think you just taken some of
39:05
it, you know, where I was. I was looking at all the
39:08
characters. When did the companions?
39:09
Leave. When did they go whether the
39:10
monsters in it? How many times was of death, the
39:14
title. And as a result I've got all
39:17
this information crammed in my head.
39:18
Like you know what, as I can't do much with, but here we are.
39:23
Here we are. Yeah, no, absolutely.
39:25
And I think, you know, I think there's some stuff that, you
39:28
know, you pick up when you're younger that stays in your brain
39:32
forever and the stuff that as you get older, you learn and
39:35
you've given, I can't remember what I did yesterday.
39:37
In fact, I have to take a certain amount of pills at night
39:40
and last night, I'm pretty sure I took them, but I literally
39:45
looked in the mirror of the bathroom and I went have, I just
39:49
have? I just because I normally take
39:50
them just after I brush my teeth.
39:53
If I just taken them or, or not in the packets, were back in the
39:56
cup. And I could feel a slight thing
39:59
in my throat. I thought I think I must have
40:01
taken a but did I take them all? Or did I just take those odds?
40:04
And I was like, but if I did or didn't I mean it was literally
40:08
four seconds ago. Yeah I can tell you everything
40:11
about where I was when I watched pretty much every single classic
40:14
Doctor Who story, you know that will stay there forever and some
40:17
of that was you know 45 years ago.
40:20
Oh I was gonna say. Can you name?
40:22
All the actors who played the children, who first appeared in
40:26
and I know every child, but of course, I know that you can
40:28
answer that question. Yes, I can.
40:29
Yes me too. I could if you wanted me Cedric,
40:42
Schumann, Rich Works called Ian Wilson in the paperwork, but he
40:47
was really cooled. Know he's called.
40:49
Richard Wilson in the paperwork. No, he's Richard Wilson.
40:53
He's Richard Wilson, sorry. Ian and the actual Richard,
40:57
Wilson's. Real name is Ian Wilson, whereas
41:01
Richard Wilson in The Doctor Who and unearthly child is, his
41:05
surname was actually spoke with two L's in real life.
41:08
But Anyone in the paperwork, which meant he was impossible to
41:11
find, except I did find him and Brian, Thomas, Heather Lions,
41:16
Carol Clark, Francesca Bertinelli, and Mavis Ranson.
41:21
They are the school children in an unearthly child.
41:25
They would go. And what did, what did you do
41:27
yesterday? Do I?