Latest / The Forgotten Way / St. George Men's Group at St. Nicholas Parish- Striving for Zero: Humility

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St. George Men's Group at St. Nicholas Parish- Striving for Zero: Humility · The Forgotten Way

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Glory to Jesus Christ. Welcome to The Forgotten Way and another Sunday meeting
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of the St. George Men's Group at St. Nicholas in Barberton.
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The men of the parish meet most third Sundays after liturgy to discuss men's
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role in the spiritual life.
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Some of today's group graciously stayed to give us a taste of the meeting. Let's listen in.
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Glory to Jesus Christ. Glory to Him forever. So Dave, thank you for your reflection on humility today.
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And humility feels like something that it's quite elusive. And as soon as you
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go to attack it directly, you fall into pride or vanity in your attempt to become humble.
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And so it's hard to even know what it is. But you started off today with a definition
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of humility. And if you wouldn't mind sharing that with us and a little background
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on how you came to it. Sure, sure.
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A little background first. I came across this small book by Iacom Cardinal Pecci,
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Bishop of Parogia, who later became Pope Leo XIII.
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So he wrote this for his seminarians on the practice of humility.
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And I was very inspired by that and actually offered to give a reflection on humility.
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So, I started, after reading this small book, I prepared the reflection.
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And so, humility is the living in the truth about who you are before God.
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Pride is forgetting that truth and putting yourself in God's place.
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Webster defines humility as freedom from pride or arrogance and is derived from
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two Latin words, humus, which means soil, or earth, and humilus,
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which means low, or on the earth,
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and associated it with modesty, meekness, and down-to-earth.
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And I think that living in the truth seems like the key aspect of humility,
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because when we try to make ourselves humble or make ourselves appear humble,
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It's essentially a form of vanity where we're still being quite
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self-referential or trying to be something that we're not, so that living in the truth.
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As you're working on the reflection, what did you see as the primary obstacles to growth in humility?
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Or what were some of the influences in your life and that have made it hard
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to embrace a life of humility.
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Yes. So, as I mentioned in the reflection, I've heard about humility,
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I've known about humility, I know very superficially what it meant.
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But I think, as is often the case, God's definition of humility and the world's,
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definition are very different, or let's say, at least in depth.
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And as I reflect on my life Even though I knew what humility was I really, really,
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wasn't practicing And giving credit where it is due And knowing,
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who I am before God So I would say then pride is what I lived Which is what
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the world essentially espouses,
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Yeah, it does feel like that from an early age...
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You know, you're often, even if it's not directly, it's extolled to be singular,
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and different and extraordinary.
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The idea of ordinary, lowly, menial is something that shouldn't ever be aspired to.
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Why would you waste your time being ordinary?
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So everyone, it feels like, is brought up frequently with the idea that you
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have to make something of yourself and make sure to, in a sense,
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brand yourself as someone who is worth something.
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And that can cause us to get to a certain point in our life and see a lot of
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ordinary aspects and either we are discontent with the lot that we're in,
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or then we try to make it something that it's not, again, that rejection of
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the truth that we're being called to live in.
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What are some of the lies that you have heard over the years about pride and
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humility? because there's lies to both of them.
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So I think as you mentioned, doing the common or ordinary, that's not what the
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world would say you should strive for.
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You should always be striving for a perfect score, a 10, and doing something extraordinary.
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Or if you're not doing that, you're falling behind, you are less than who you should be.
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But God has the opposite in mind.
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We should be focused on emptying ourselves of ourselves, of our pride.
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And I think that the number zero, as mentioned in the reflection,
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and it is what we should be striving for.
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You mentioned with Zero specifically a story about St. Paisios,
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I believe. Would you be able to share that? Yes.
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So in an episode of the St. Paisios Life Story video.
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He is approached near the end of his life about a couple, three gentlemen came
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to him and asked for him to share something meaningful with them,
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something to benefit them.
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And he asks he says what can i what can i share with you and he then shares
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this story he says when the americans,
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when they are ready to launch they don't count zero one two to till they get
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to 10 he they count from 10 until they get to zero and then it launches,
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and that's what and that's when he said that's the same in the spiritual life
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until you become zero until you reach that zero,
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emptying yourself and denying yourself,
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nothing happens and i think that's that was really hard to hear and he said
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that he's been striving for zero all his life and he still hasn't made it.
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Yeah, and you related another story about St.
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Paisios and reminded me, you can maybe share this story in a minute,
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but that obviously we can't get to that zero, that humility without God's grace.
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But often it's those painful interactions with our neighbor that could provoke
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us to anger, could provoke us to become judgmental.
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But we see in the lives of the saints that they welcome those opportunities
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where the neighbor actually aids them to getting closer to that zero.
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And what was the story that you shared about that? So also in that video series, St.
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Paisios is celebrating, or he's at the altar, let's say, and the celebrant is moved to chase St.
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Paisios off the altar and tells him to leave.
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And in a very angrily way, right there at the altar.
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And St. Paisios humbles himself, puts his head down, and hurries off the altar
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and goes to the back of the church. So.
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He then rejoins with this priest later on in the movie,
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And they both are very Well the priest is very Sorrowful that he did this And
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he was not sure what came over him At that time But St.
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Paisios was using Had used that opportunity That scolding in a sense To.
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Let's say, gain in humility. Yeah, to accept those insults and rebukes and to
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even just be obedient to the people around you that God has placed in your life.
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And as you were telling that story, I remembered kind of the opposite example
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from the life of Elder Joseph, the Hazy cast.
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And there was a monk that wanted to be a disciple of his. So at least on the
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surface, wanted to grow in virtue.
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And one of the key stepping stones to humility is obedience.
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And the monks, Father John, got to Elder Joseph and within a couple days was
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already showing signs of disobedience.
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And Elder Joseph asked him to do a certain number of prostrations. And he said, I can't.
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And a couple more days went by, and Elder Joseph asked Father John,
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here's some work that I need you to do.
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And Father John said, I can't.
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And elder joseph lets him to kind of go his own way essentially keeps praying
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for him ardently but through his disobedience he became quite susceptible to,
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demonic delusion and his pride and he had this vision he thought it was his
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angel showing up to him but it was actually a talking about how exalted his virtue was.
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And one of the key things he told him was, well, don't tell your elder about
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this experience you're having.
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So again, that idea that feeds into her pride of you're special,
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you're singular, you don't need to be obedient.
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You know, a complete rejection of humility. And the demon takes him right to the point where he,
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says, okay, after communion tomorrow, a chariot of fire is going to take you
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from the cliff of Mount Athos up to heaven, like the prophet Elijah.
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And he is so deluded at this point, and Elder Joseph has a sense that there's
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something very wrong with Father John, and he asked him to come in and to confess his thoughts.
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And by God's grace, even with some resistance, if Father John confesses his
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thoughts and Elder Joseph,
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slaps him across the face, like you were on the point of perdition,
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your disobedience, your pride, your lack of willingness to accept any type of
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instruction literally took you to.
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Physically the brink of a cliff, but the brink of eternal death.
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Just what started out as something so simple as just saying, I can't, I can't do that.
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I can't lower myself to do what you've asked me to do.
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And so just two striking examples of someone who took ridicule with a sense
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of peace and tranquility and grew in humility.
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And someone who rejected even the smallest amount of what they saw as demeaning
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behavior towards them and it took them right to the brink.
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So, you're a father and I'm a father.
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What are some of the ways that you feel we can start to instill in humility within our kids?
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Because it always feels like such a tough balance of wanting to give proper
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acknowledgement, but then not somehow fall into flattering them.
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So, what have you tried to do with your own kids with humility?
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So I think, I think there certainly is a caution that needs to be taken in today's
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society of wanting to award every type of achievement,
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you know, at least in my lifetime during, in a sporting, on a sporting team,
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let's say one or two players would get into recognition.
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And now, as I was coaching later, you know, not too long ago,
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every player needed to get a trophy.
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Every player needed to become, you know, awarded with something.
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And I think we have to be very careful not to, you know, overplay any good achievements, number one.
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And number two, to make sure that it is recognized where those gifts are coming from.
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Make sure that we are acknowledging that these gifts are from God and not from,
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ourselves and from our own efforts. I think...
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What Pope Leo XIII wrote in his little book to his seminarians that is very
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important, that we own, all we own is our sins.
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And that everything else needs to be credited to God.
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But one additional comment I would add to that question,
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Ethan, is to remember that it's our example that our kids will remember and
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follow more so than our words.
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So I think striving for that humility, striving for zero, acknowledging our
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faults, our sinfulness, and acknowledging the gifts from God.
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Is what our kids will try to emulate more so than our words. Yeah.
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That's so true. You can see sometimes when you start to interact with people,
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you mentioned the dangers of just excessive praise are being just awarded constantly.
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And it can become so intoxicating.
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I was talking with someone, and they related an incident from work,
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and they have a group of people that report to them.
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And just in a very matter of fact, where they had a meeting where they went
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through a couple of errors that were made over the last month from all accounts,
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like there was no specific names attached. It's like it was presented just as learning.
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Like this is what our company needs to do to learn.
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And then one of the people came
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in to their office within a few minutes of the meeting ending and said.
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How difficult a way that was to start the day and their recommendation to their
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boss was to make sure to praise them also for all of the good things that they're doing.
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I can't make that up. I don't know. I don't know.
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Yeah, just the thought of you're just done getting corrected,
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educated, and the first response is, tell me how I'm doing good next time.
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But that is where we are at.
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One of the themes that came up during the meeting a couple times is just the
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simple interior practice of asking ourselves, who am I and who are you, Lord?
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And to constantly be able to look honestly at who we are, especially in relationship to God.
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And like you said, how much He has freely given us and how ridiculous it is
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to take a lot of credit for things that we've been freely gifted with.
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But it feels so easy to ascribe any of the good things in our life to ourself.
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And the work or whatever that we've put into it.
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And that's, yeah, that was one of the parts of the meeting that I appreciated
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the most, the question of who am I and who are you, God?
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One of the things I wanted to touch on was there was some discussion about how
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off-putting, Humble people can actually be,
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and how the world can view them as prideful.
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And in your reading and preparation for the reflection, did you come across
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any examples like that of where the humble person was accused of being prideful or arrogant?
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I did not, but I also agree with you.
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That is a difficult concept that a truly humble person is so confident that.
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He's confident in that truth about himself in relation to God that anything else,
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it just cannot compare.
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And he has appeared to be so confident that he's arrogant. Right.
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Because he knows how low he is.
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I don't know how to, you know, say process it even, you know?
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Yeah, because it just is such a rejection of what the world calls humble.
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And Father related the story from saying natius of two monks,
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one older and one younger, going to this rich person's house.
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And the young monk essentially acting very humble, at least what the world calls humble, of a lot of,
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praise to the person's home and a lot of
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bows and prostrations and these outward signs of of lowering himself and the
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older truly humble monk wouldn't give in to any of that pressure essentially to flatter and,
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the wealthy people regarded him as prideful and aloof and so it.
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Feels hard to attack humility straight and like to set it as a goal like I want
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to be humble it's it feels much more like,
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All of these tangential things like obedience and,
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accepting that, those rebukes and humiliations that can then predispose us to
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becoming humble, but not something that can just be sought after in itself.
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Were there any practices, because it sounded like quite an impactful book,
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were there certain quotes from the future Pope Leo that, either specific recommendations
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that he gave that you thought were,
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good to apply to anyone, not just seminarians?
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Yes, there was one I would like to read And that is,
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Never wish to be loved in a special way Since love depends on the will And the
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will tends by its nature towards good It follows that being loved and considered good Are one and the same,
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The desire to be esteemed by a preferential love Cannot be compatible with sincere
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humility How much fruit would you get by endeavoring thus?
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Not longing anymore for the love of creatures, your soul will take refuge in
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the sacred wounds of our Savior.
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In the adorable heart of Jesus, it will experience untold divine sweetness.
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The renunciation of the love of creatures for the love of God will empower your
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soul to taste abundantly the honey of divine consolation.
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Which would have been denied, had your soul been attracted by the false and
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alluring sweetness of earthly consolations.
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Divine consolations are so pure as not to bear being mixed with earthly affections.
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We are filled with the former to the extent that we empty of the latter.
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He then writes, do not fear that by doing so, you will cool your charity for your neighbor.
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Rather, you will love your neighbor with a pure and more perfect love.
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John, do you think of what that means to renounce just that internal desire
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to have people appreciate you and admire you and love you,
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to forego that for something higher?
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I think we've all had moments, relationships in our lives that we've wanted
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people to love us, and they're not,
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or they didn't. But had we sought the love of God.
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Above the love of that person, it would not have been, one, hurtful.
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Right. It would have been understandable as well.
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And three, we would have a sweetness that's beyond anything here on earth.
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It reminds me of the, in the morning prayer in the publican prayer book, the first prayer of St.
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Macario's, it starts something like, Oh Lord, forgive me, for I've never done
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anything good in your sight.
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You stick with that line for a minute and test yourself to see, do I believe that?
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Do I believe that I've never done anything good in the Lord's sight?
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Not in a sense of false humility, but that even when you try to cooperate with
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His grace, how many imperfections, even your good works are...
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Intermixed with but then also with that how freeing that can be from that expectation
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that others are going to love appreciate and like you if you're like i i really
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have never done anything good,
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i i pray that as well and i question that and i think for me it's in part because,
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my heart might not be in the right place,
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with all those things that the world would say, those are good.
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So if my heart was saying, oh, you're doing this for your own benefit or the
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benefit of God necessarily.
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It's probably not good. It's not heavenly good.
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It's not only for the love of God that you're doing it. Right.
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Yeah, some taint that diminishes its perfectness.
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And thank you so much, Dave. I appreciate it. And glory to Jesus Christ. Glory to him forever.