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341-Jennifer Merrill: The Wine Closet Became a Prayer Closet · Stuck No More Voices

• 0:00
  theresa: There was a closet in her house, it used to hold wine.
• 0:04
  theresa: Now, it holds her Bible.
• 0:06
  theresa: Our guest is here to tell you how that happened.
• 0:09
  theresa: So welcome to the Stuck No More Voices Podcast.
• 0:12
  theresa: I'm Theresa Croft.
• 0:13
  theresa: I'm a visibility strategist whose helps Christian women clarify the story they carry, position their message, and build a visible pathway so the right people can find them.
• 0:24
  theresa: This episode is a special feature of the Stuck No More Voices Podcast.
• 0:29
  theresa: It's called The Calling Table Session.
• 0:32
  theresa: It's a seat for Christian women whose stories have some grief and some gold, their story that deserves to be handled with care, and whose voice is ready to be heard.
• 0:43
  theresa: So pull up your chair and let's welcome a great friend of mine, Jennifer Merrell.
• 0:48
  theresa: Jen, so nice to see you.
• 0:50
  Jen: Thanks, T.
• 0:51
  Jen: It's so good to be here.
• 0:52
  theresa: You know, Jen and I, we go back, uh, quite a few years.
• 0:55
  theresa: And, uh, we could just- Yeah talk stories about her kids.
• 0:59
  theresa: Yeah.
• 0:59
  theresa: But we won't do that.
• 1:00
  theresa: Yeah.
• 1:00
  theresa: J- that opening, Jen has a powerful story, and when I first met her she had just converted a closet from something into something else.
• 1:08
  theresa: So why Jen, we're not gonna mess around.
• 1:11
  theresa: We're gonna go right to the stories that can contain gold.
• 1:14
  theresa: So tell us about that house and tell us about that closet.
• 1:18
  Jen: Okay, yeah.
• 1:19
  Jen: So my husband and I built a house in Peachtree City, Georgia.
• 1:24
  Jen: And so, uh, we were building it from the ground up.
• 1:26
  Jen: And in the center of this house, you know, I had Maybe you've seen it.
• 1:30
  Jen: It's, it's like a wine display room.
• 1:32
  theresa: Mm-hmm.
• 1:33
  Jen: So it had wine bottles, I mean, 200 bottles on the wall, and there was a, a glass window looking in, um, where, you know, it was all of my wine that I would drink.
• 1:46
  theresa: Yeah.
• 1:47
  theresa: It was a big closet too, by the way.
• 1:50
  Jen: It was a big closet.
• 1:51
  Jen: Yeah.
• 1:51
  Jen: It was a big closet.
• 1:53
  theresa: And then something transformed that closet.
• 1:56
  Jen: Right.
• 1:57
  Jen: So it was, it was in the fall of-
• 1:59
  theresa: Okay
• 2:00
  Jen: of 2020.
• 2:01
  theresa: Wow.
• 2:02
  Jen: And I just realized that, you know, my life was a mess.
• 2:06
  Jen: Mm.
• 2:06
  Jen: You know, a lot, I think COVID and all of that brought up a lot for people.
• 2:10
  Jen: But I, I just realized that my life, I had a lot of issues.
• 2:13
  Jen: And I, I remember being in my bedroom, and I dropped down to my knees, and I said,"Lord," I said,"My life is a mess, and I don't know what to do.
• 2:21
  Jen: I need your help." Mm.
• 2:23
  Jen: And I knew in that moment, the Holy Spirit showed me that I had to quit drinking.
• 2:28
  theresa: Wow.
• 2:28
  Jen: And so here we, we were.
• 2:31
  Jen: We had just built this house.
• 2:32
  Jen: You know, we had lived in it for, I guess it was a, it was a couple of years, um- Okay before this happened.
• 2:37
  Jen: And, you know, and so I said yes.
• 2:40
  Jen: I said, okay.
• 2:41
  theresa: Mm.
• 2:41
  Jen: And so I, as an act of my will, I laid down drinking, and, you know, this, this story began to unfold, because if you have struggled with addiction, you know, you know that when I quit, everything that I was numbing out to and everything that I was masking surfaced.
• 3:02
  Jen: Wow.
• 3:02
  Jen: Wow.
• 3:02
  Jen: And so I know now looking back that it was the wisdom of God, because I would not have been able to deal with anything in my life had I not quit drinking.
• 3:13
  theresa: Wow.
• 3:13
  Jen: And so the Lord showed me, too, how this was impacting my kids.
• 3:18
  Jen: Mm.
• 3:18
  Jen: My kids were really young at that time.
• 3:19
  Jen: Okay.
• 3:20
  Jen: I had a little over one year old, almost two, and then, um, a five-year-old.
• 3:25
  theresa: Wow.
• 3:25
  Jen: And so I saw this room, this closet, where this glass wall was, you know, and all of these wine bottles, and it's like my kids were looking to this as if th- these were Mommy's trophies.
• 3:40
  Jen: Like, this is what was important to her.
• 3:42
  theresa: Wow.
• 3:42
  theresa: And
• 3:43
  Jen: it just really, I, I didn't want that for my kids.
• 3:46
  Jen: I didn't want them to, to know me, or to remember me, or to see me in that way.
• 3:51
  theresa: Sure.
• 3:51
  Jen: And so it was really a gift that the Lord gave me.
• 3:55
  Jen: You know, and we know with every, you know, invitation from Him to step into something greater for us, you know, sometimes it's, it's not the easiest to do.
• 4:05
  Jen: So when I quit drinking- All of the things in my life surfaced Mm And I, I quickly decided, though, I, I told Ryan, my husband's name is Ryan.
• 4:15
  Jen: I said,"Ryan, you know, I wanna transform this closet because I don't want it." Like, I just, I didn't want it at all.
• 4:22
  Jen: So we hired a contractor, and he came in and removed the glass.
• 4:27
  Jen: We put a wall, and then I converted it into this prayer room.
• 4:30
  Jen: Like, this- Yeah
• 4:31
  theresa: this
• 4:31
  Jen: prayer nook.
• 4:32
  Jen: So that's kind of a condensed, uh- Yeah story about the wine room.
• 4:38
  theresa: And then I can remember visiting, and the kids had their color books.
• 4:41
  theresa: They wanted to be next to mom, and-
• 4:43
  Jen: Yeah,
• 4:44
  theresa: they did But, you know, that's reality.
• 4:46
  theresa: That's a real point there.
• 4:47
  theresa: When you quit something that's numbing you out, then all of a sudden those issues come out, and I think a lot of people can relate to that.
• 4:54
  theresa: They're trying to stop.
• 4:57
  theresa: Yeah.
• 4:57
  theresa: And, and those issues, I know you have a, have, have a strong relationship with God, but how did, how did those slowly get resolved, or at least to a place where you could have grief and still have joy at the same time?
• 5:10
  Jen: Yeah.
• 5:10
  Jen: You know, I realized that at the root of all of that addiction was really the need to be loved by God.
• 5:16
  theresa: Oh, yeah.
• 5:17
  Jen: And, you know, we're created to be known and to be loved by Him, and so all of the issues that I was covering up was a desperate attempt, you know, the deceitfulness of sin.
• 5:27
  Jen: You know, this is gonna fulfill your need.
• 5:29
  theresa: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Jen: Um, and so, you know, it was bitterness that surfaced, fear, social anxiety- Oh rejection.
• 5:38
  Jen: You know, just all of these heart issues- Yeah uh, you know, marital stuff that I just avoided dealing with.
• 5:45
  Jen: And so- Um, I had to deal with these things head on.
• 5:49
  Jen: Was it easy?
• 5:50
  Jen: No.
• 5:51
  Jen: No.
• 5:51
  Jen: But through the truth.
• 5:54
  theresa: Yeah.
• 5:54
  Jen: You know, just understanding truth and just, it was like taking one step at a time.
• 6:00
  theresa: Yeah.
• 6:01
  Jen: Just a yes, and then another yes, and then an- an- another yes.
• 6:06
  Jen: Mm.
• 6:06
  Jen: And to-
• 6:07
  theresa: So good
• 6:07
  Jen: um, you know, letting go of these things.
• 6:10
  Jen: And as I began to experience, like, you know, I love when John says that, that we've come to know and believe the love that God has for us.
• 6:19
  Jen: So I knew intellectually that God loved me.
• 6:22
  theresa: Right.
• 6:22
  Jen: But I don't think I believed it.
• 6:24
  theresa: Wow.
• 6:25
  Jen: So when I came to believe it, the issues one by one just started to become less and less.
• 6:33
  theresa: Wow.
• 6:34
  Jen: So the rejection, you know, when you know you're loved by God, it's, it's so much easier to deal with the hurts that we have here.
• 6:41
  Jen: When you know you're loved by God, fear doesn't have a voice.
• 6:44
  Jen: When you know and you're believing and experiencing that love that God has for you, you know, the social anxiety or what people think, you know, it just doesn't carry the same weight.
• 6:55
  theresa: Right.
• 6:55
  Jen: Because you're walking in this confidence and this assurance that you are His beloved child.
• 7:03
  theresa: Amen.
• 7:03
  Jen: So, I mean, it was a process.
• 7:05
  Jen: I mean, it wasn't always beautiful and pretty and- There were lots of tears and lots- Mm of emotions, and-
• 7:11
  theresa: One, one thing I really, um, admired in you is you invested.
• 7:16
  theresa: You went places.
• 7:17
  theresa: You went out to South Georgia.
• 7:19
  theresa: You went to a Bible col- you invested in your, in your healing.
• 7:24
  theresa: Yeah.
• 7:24
  theresa: Yeah, you were learning, but you really invested in your healing.
• 7:28
  theresa: Tell us about that journey of really investing and going where you needed to go to deal with some of those issues.
• 7:34
  theresa: I mean, sometimes we just need to go to someone or to somewhere.
• 7:37
  Jen: Right.
• 7:37
  Jen: Yeah.
• 7:38
  Jen: You know, I knew that I needed to understand the word of God.
• 7:42
  Jen: Okay.
• 7:42
  Jen: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Jen: You know, I knew that I needed to be taught truth.
• 7:45
  Jen: Okay.
• 7:45
  Jen: And so I signed up for classes to get help with that.
• 7:49
  Jen: You know, I- Okay I didn't know, I knew that, like, there were serious, um- you know, physical things happening to you, like because really kind of what spurred a lot of like the, the pain and, and the realization of like my life was in 2019 after I had Harrison, I had postpartum depression.
• 8:11
  theresa: Oh, bless
• 8:11
  Jen: you.
• 8:11
  Jen: And so then the alcohol just kind of making that worse.
• 8:15
  Jen: Oh, yeah.
• 8:15
  Jen: And so I sought healing from God because I didn't want to take, um, medication.
• 8:22
  Jen: Yeah.
• 8:22
  Jen: And so really kind of the journey began in 2019 a little bit, but the alcohol piece was in 2020 when the Lord was- Right you know, none of, nothing's gonna work until you- Yeah lay this down because you're just continuing to numb out to these issues that you're gonna- Yeah have to face.
• 8:39
  Jen: And so I went to a healing ministry in Georgia.
• 8:43
  Jen: Yeah.
• 8:43
  Jen: You know, where I was able to understand like the enemy's influence and, and how the enemy, you know, uses deception to deceive us and all of these things.
• 8:54
  Jen: And so it was just, you know, I was very committed to- Yeah um, overcoming the issue, and now my life is totally different.
• 9:03
  Jen: Yeah.
• 9:03
  Jen: Praise God, you know?
• 9:04
  Jen: Yeah.
• 9:05
  theresa: That postpartum depression, I mean, that speaks to someone listening because that's a monster.
• 9:12
  Jen: Yeah.
• 9:12
  theresa: And I think you knew- And I had
• 9:14
  Jen: psychosis
• 9:14
  theresa: with it I think you knew the seriousness of it, and I think that- Yeah the fact that you just said it now shows amazing healing, and the fact that you, you looked at it dead in its eye.
• 9:24
  theresa: Yeah.
• 9:24
  theresa: That this has got, I gotta do something.
• 9:26
  theresa: Instead of, was this bef- were you still drinking then?
• 9:30
  Jen: Yeah, I was.
• 9:31
  Jen: Okay.
• 9:31
  Jen: In 2019, yeah.
• 9:32
  Jen: Um- So that
• 9:33
  theresa: was like
• 9:33
  Jen: double.
• 9:33
  Jen: I had the psychotic features with it, too, so I was like- Oh hearing voices, and I mean, it was not good.
• 9:39
  theresa: Oh, bless you.
• 9:39
  theresa: Wow.
• 9:40
  Jen: Um, but- Mm I'm a therapist, so I knew as a licensed professional counselor-
• 9:46
  theresa: Yeah
• 9:46
  Jen: knew that this is what I was dealing with, and I didn't want to take the appro- you know, the medical route.
• 9:51
  Jen: Okay.
• 9:51
  Jen: Like I said, I sought for healing, you know, and then in that journey of pursuing him for healing, the alcohol came up.
• 9:59
  Jen: Interesting.
• 10:00
  theresa: And so- Wow
• 10:00
  Jen: I'm so glad that I said yes.
• 10:02
  Jen: I'm so glad that the Lord came to me instantly.
• 10:05
  Jen: Like-
• 10:05
  theresa: Yeah when
• 10:06
  Jen: I got real- The power
• 10:07
  theresa: of a yes.
• 10:07
  theresa: Come on now.
• 10:08
  theresa: The power of a yes, I'm telling
• 10:09
  Jen: you, it's God.
• 10:10
  Jen: When I got real with him, he showed me- Yeah what was, um- contributing to a lot of it because alcohol does, it's a depressant.
• 10:18
  Jen: Mm.
• 10:18
  Jen: Yeah.
• 10:18
  Jen: It makes those things worse.
• 10:20
  theresa: Yeah.
• 10:21
  Jen: Um, and so no, you're never too far into it- Yeah to say,"Yes, I'm not going to do this anymore."
• 10:28
  theresa: That's so good.
• 10:29
  theresa: Oh.
• 10:30
  theresa: I, I must say something about the power of yes, and then I'm going to go into something very controversial with Jen.
• 10:36
  theresa: Um, you know, Jen, when, uh, I went to the hospital and I was laying there on the biopsy table and I heard the Holy Spirit say,"Tee, can you make this another story for my glory?" And I'm like,"God, I got enough stories."
• 10:49
  Jen: Yeah.
• 10:49
  theresa: But I s- I said yes.
• 10:51
  theresa: And you know, I really believe that yes, it's kind of like what you're saying, yes took me through a journey.
• 10:55
  theresa: Yes helped m- make every biopsy.
• 10:58
  theresa: Yes helped me through the MRIs and the two surgeries.
• 11:02
  theresa: I had two cancer surgeries because- Yeah the first one they botched up.
• 11:05
  Jen: Yeah.
• 11:05
  theresa: So I just want to encourage someone, if you're facing a monster, whether it's depression or, or, you know, postpartum or something, that one yes Look at Jen.
• 11:15
  theresa: That one, that was a lot of yeses.
• 11:18
  theresa: Mm-hmm.
• 11:18
  theresa: All right.
• 11:18
  theresa: So I'm going to go into some controversy.
• 11:20
  theresa: Yeah.
• 11:20
  theresa: I think it's controversy because I'm a little upset at the state of the church when we- Okay got to pull our pants up and perform.
• 11:28
  theresa: So I know you've been speaking out on this, and I know you have a s- little bit of a story.
• 11:32
  theresa: You may not want to reveal all of it.
• 11:34
  theresa: But you are transformed in that, and you're s- you're like a voice speaking in the darkness in the church world.
• 11:43
  Jen: Mm.
• 11:44
  theresa: Y- how do you wanna unpack some of that?
• 11:46
  theresa: 'Cause I think that's where your gift is.
• 11:48
  theresa: I think God has raised you up as- Mm-hmm that voice that's gonna say,"No more to this playing games in, in, in church." So any- Right place you wanna start that or?
• 11:59
  Jen: Yeah.
• 11:59
  Jen: So are you meaning, like, from the performance realm?
• 12:02
  theresa: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:02
  Jen: Yeah.
• 12:03
  theresa: Yeah.
• 12:03
  Jen: Um, you know, I got busy for Jesus, you know?
• 12:07
  Jen: It's like I, it's like, okay, I need help, and then I kinda got catapulted into, like, the performance realm a lot, of where it is Jesus plus you.
• 12:19
  Jen: There's a lot of self effort-
• 12:21
  theresa: Yeah
• 12:21
  Jen: involved.
• 12:22
  Jen: And so I became so exhausted, Tee.
• 12:24
  Jen: Mm-hmm.
• 12:25
  Jen: And, you know, God was healing me.
• 12:27
  Jen: I was encountering, like, I had so many- Yeah like, supernatural experiences that, um, I mean, just were undeniable, you know?
• 12:35
  Jen: Yeah.
• 12:35
  Jen: And so, I mean, I'm having all this, but a- but I actually got to a point where I was so, you know, I was built, being built up in self-righteousness.
• 12:44
  Jen: There was pride.
• 12:45
  Jen: You know, there was a lot of despair because I was working hard to try to keep myself righteous.
• 12:51
  theresa: Oh, wow.
• 12:51
  theresa: That's
• 12:51
  Jen: real.
• 12:51
  Jen: Trying to perform.
• 12:53
  theresa: Yeah.
• 12:53
  Jen: And so I got to a point where I was like,"God, like, i- is this really what it is to follow you?
• 12:58
  Jen: I can't do it.
• 12:59
  Jen: Like, I can't.
• 13:00
  Jen: I don't know how to do this." Yeah.
• 13:02
  Jen: And it's like God, in that moment I knew, and I know this is the Holy Spirit, like, this isn't it.
• 13:09
  Jen: Like, this can't- Wow.
• 13:10
  Jen: And, um, so I said,"Okay, I need to understand the gospel.
• 13:15
  Jen: I need to understand- Wow the finished work of Christ and what Jesus accomplished." And so I set out on a journey to understand that, and I, you know, understood faith righteousness, and now, man, there's no going back to- Yeah the performance gauntlet for me.
• 13:32
  theresa: That's right.
• 13:33
  theresa: I remember-
• 13:34
  Jen: I just love the gospel
• 13:35
  theresa: I remember sitting at your parents' pool for one of your son's birthday parties, and we were sitting- Yeah together hashing that out.
• 13:42
  theresa: And I remember, one thing that I remember is, she's getting it.
• 13:46
  theresa: She's tired.
• 13:47
  theresa: The, the righteous, you go to a church and you gotta do this, this, this.
• 13:51
  theresa: I mean, I love church, don't get me wrong, but-
• 13:53
  Jen: Yeah, yeah
• 13:54
  theresa: it, it, I just could relate to that because I came up from a performance-based, um- Mm-hmm religion instead of just intimacy with Jesus.
• 14:03
  theresa: Yes, you need community.
• 14:05
  theresa: But that was, that wasn't easy because in some ways you were disappointing people in church.
• 14:13
  Jen: Right.
• 14:16
  theresa: Talk about that.
• 14:16
  Jen: Well, people don't necessarily like it.
• 14:19
  Jen: When you're experiencing this freedom-
• 14:22
  theresa: Right
• 14:23
  Jen: you realize, like,"Oh, I don't have to-
• 14:26
  theresa: Mm
• 14:26
  Jen: do all these things in order to be pleasing to God," you know?
• 14:29
  Jen: And so I had to say, start saying no to a lot of things.
• 14:33
  Jen: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Jen: Had to evaluate my commitments because I was so burnt out.
• 14:37
  Jen: My adrenals were tanked.
• 14:38
  theresa: Oh, wow.
• 14:39
  theresa: And
• 14:39
  Jen: my body physically was just negatively impacted by this, like, revival culture mindset-
• 14:46
  theresa: Yeah
• 14:46
  Jen: uh, performance gauntlet.
• 14:48
  Jen: And so I started really just backing off and saying no, and sometimes, you know, people that need or want people to serve their vision and their plan don't really like that, you know?
• 15:02
  Jen: No.
• 15:02
  Jen: But that's not, you know, what we're signing up for.
• 15:06
  Jen: Yeah.
• 15:06
  Jen: Like, when we are, are, are believing the gospel and we're entering into reconciliation with God, you know, we belong to him, not to people.
• 15:16
  theresa: Yeah.
• 15:16
  Jen: Yeah.
• 15:16
  Jen: You know?
• 15:16
  Jen: And so we, we gather and we serve one another in love, right?
• 15:21
  Jen: But people don't have power over people or authority over people.
• 15:26
  Jen: And so, you know, I had to kind of identify that there was some manipulation and spiritual abuse even that was happening.
• 15:32
  theresa: Yes.
• 15:33
  Jen: Yeah.
• 15:33
  Jen: And get, you know, out of that.
• 15:36
  Jen: Mm-hmm.
• 15:36
  Jen: And, um, that was a whole nother thing of walking through.
• 15:40
  Jen: But, you know, I, I just entered into this place of, um, kind of just a rest.
• 15:46
  Jen: I had, like, four different people.
• 15:48
  Jen: It's like I couldn't hear.
• 15:49
  Jen: God made it so clear to me, Tee.
• 15:51
  Jen: I remember this.
• 15:52
  Jen: Four different people, I think you may have been one of them.
• 15:55
  theresa: Uh-huh.
• 15:57
  Jen: Um, at four different times come up to me and tell me, you know, whether it be they were praying for me or whatever, that God was saying,"You need to rest." Yeah.
• 16:05
  Jen: And I remember being like,"God, I don't even know what that means." Sure.
• 16:08
  Jen: Like, what does that mean?
• 16:10
  theresa: Yeah.
• 16:10
  Jen: So I, I learned, you know, what it means.
• 16:14
  Jen: And rest is not laziness.
• 16:16
  Jen: It's not passivity.
• 16:17
  Jen: Mm-hmm.
• 16:17
  Jen: It's none of those thing.
• 16:19
  Jen: It's just resting in what Jesus accomplished.
• 16:23
  Jen: Yeah.
• 16:23
  Jen: And now the motive of what I do is totally different.
• 16:27
  theresa: So
• 16:27
  Jen: good.
• 16:27
  Jen: Because it's just I get to do things.
• 16:30
  Jen: Yeah.
• 16:30
  Jen: I get to serve.
• 16:31
  Jen: I want to.
• 16:32
  Jen: It's not because I have to.
• 16:34
  theresa: That's so good.
• 16:35
  theresa: I think rest, you're right, people think that's laziness.
• 16:38
  theresa: And the older I get, I realize I have these pockets of rest that in the past I'd think I'd have to do something, or I'd have to please someone.
• 16:46
  theresa: Yeah.
• 16:46
  theresa: And sometimes I'm just, like, like I'll just sit in my chair and my cat comes up, and I'm just talking to God.
• 16:51
  theresa: Yeah.
• 16:51
  theresa: I'm thinking about God.
• 16:52
  theresa: Having Jesus and coffee.
• 16:54
  Jen: Yeah.
• 16:55
  theresa: That's rest.
• 16:57
  theresa: And, uh, I, you know, I understand being a mom and having to get the kids off to school.
• 17:03
  theresa: So, I mean, there's, uh, you can rest in the midst of some responsibilities, but wow, someone needs to know how to rest.
• 17:10
  theresa: You know what?
• 17:11
  theresa: One of my favorite verses about rest, it's, uh, in Hebrews 11.
• 17:15
  theresa: It's a different translation, but it said,"And Sarah embraced God's miracle-working power, even though she was past the age of childbearing, but her faith- Mm-hmm rested in the authority of the one who promised- Amen and she tapped into his faithfulness.
• 17:29
  theresa: So I think there's, that's a lot of rest.
• 17:32
  theresa: But I think the- Yeah tap into faithfulness is you come from that place of rest and you go ahead and tap into God's faithfulness, in your marriage, in your job, in your- Mm-hmm business, in your creative powers, so.
• 17:43
  Jen: Yeah, and that comes back to seeing him rightly.
• 17:46
  Jen: When she saw the one who promised is faithful-
• 17:49
  theresa: Right she
• 17:49
  Jen: judged him faithful and then conceived.
• 17:52
  Jen: She could have had the promise a lot sooner.
• 17:54
  Jen: I could have had rest a lot sooner.
• 17:56
  theresa: I hear you.
• 17:57
  Jen: You know?
• 17:57
  Jen: But I wasn't seeing things clearly and rightly.
• 18:00
  Jen: Right.
• 18:00
  Jen: You know?
• 18:01
  theresa: Right.
• 18:01
  theresa: You know- Uh um, you have won the war for your voice.
• 18:04
  theresa: I love seeing you speak out on- Well,
• 18:07
  Jen: thanks.
• 18:07
  Jen: I
• 18:07
  theresa: appreciate that social media.
• 18:08
  theresa: And I know that's, I know that's not necessarily easy, but I know that you know that it's God's call.
• 18:14
  theresa: And you know the way I see that?
• 18:16
  theresa: Mm-hmm.
• 18:16
  theresa: Um, two years after my husband passed, which you knew my husband, I asked God, I said,"Why was I able to fight for my voice back then?"'Cause there was a lot of turmoil.
• 18:24
  theresa: And God said two things, and this is, uh, what I think of you.
• 18:27
  theresa: He said, one,"You fought for the presence of God," and two,"You created the way God creates." Mm.
• 18:34
  theresa: So you speaking truth to hearts is creating the way God creates.
• 18:39
  theresa: You being able to,"Hey, get on a reel and let's talk real," creating- Yeah the way God creates.
• 18:44
  theresa: Back then in the midst of the turmoil, I was writing Listen to the Vinedresser.
• 18:48
  theresa: I don't know if you remember that.
• 18:49
  theresa: I
• 18:50
  Jen: do.
• 18:50
  theresa: And I don't, I, I look back and I'm like, I was cra- I was listening to the Father.
• 18:54
  theresa: I couldn't conjure him up, and he would speak to me in the voice of the vinedresser.
• 18:59
  theresa: So I think, I think that's a word for someone, uh, in the midst of whatever they're going through.
• 19:05
  theresa: What does it mean to you, I'm talking to someone, to create as God creates?
• 19:11
  theresa: So Jen, what does it mean to you to create the way God creates?
• 19:16
  Jen: So for me, it's just, I mean, I just think Jesus in and through you.
• 19:20
  Jen: It's co-laboring with the Father to reveal, uh, the heart, uh, uh, to His heart, you know, to people.
• 19:27
  Jen: And so He wants...
• 19:29
  Jen: We represent Him to other people- Yeah you know, in what we do.
• 19:33
  Jen: And so He gives us creative ideas.
• 19:35
  Jen: He inspires us.
• 19:36
  Jen: Yeah.
• 19:36
  Jen: He moves on our hearts.
• 19:38
  Jen: And, you know, one of the things that I identified in, in kind of identifying, like, what I wanted to do with the audience that I was speaking to is, who do you love?
• 19:47
  Jen: Okay.
• 19:47
  Jen: You know, God doesn't give us things that we don't like.
• 19:51
  Jen: You know, He's a good Father.
• 19:52
  Jen: That's
• 19:52
  theresa: nice to
• 19:53
  Jen: say that.
• 19:53
  Jen: Amen.
• 19:54
  Jen: And so who do you love in your heart?
• 19:56
  Jen: And as I thought about that, I love the lost, so I, I share the gospel a lot, but I love people who are stuck in performance and- Yeah who are stuck in that religious, you know, hamster wheel-
• 20:09
  theresa: Yes
• 20:10
  Jen: of striving.
• 20:11
  Jen: And so as I started to identify that, it just kinda came out, like, in this creativity of just connecting to that people group that God has put on my heart to love.
• 20:22
  theresa: Yeah.
• 20:23
  Jen: Um, so it always comes back to love for me.
• 20:26
  theresa: Yeah.
• 20:26
  theresa: A love-based motive.
• 20:27
  theresa: Rhema and Hanan.
• 20:28
  theresa: Yeah.
• 20:28
  theresa: Yeah, it shows.
• 20:29
  theresa: Um, I've got you.
• 20:30
  theresa: Now you're on Instagram.
• 20:31
  theresa: I think you were just on Facebook.
• 20:33
  theresa: And I can see, I can see your passion,'cause I know you, but I also can see a lot of love and compassion and...
• 20:42
  Jen: My biggest thing is on TikTok.
• 20:44
  theresa: Oh, I love that.
• 20:45
  theresa: I'll have to go over there.
• 20:46
  theresa: Yeah.
• 20:46
  theresa: You know, TikTok- Are you on TikTok?
• 20:48
  theresa: I am, but I'm not...
• 20:49
  theresa: I d- go over there mainly to edit my videos.
• 20:51
  theresa: But you know what?
• 20:52
  theresa: Okay.
• 20:52
  theresa: TikTok loves a story
• 20:55
  Jen: Yeah.
• 20:55
  Jen: They- You can
• 20:56
  theresa: go over there and tell some stories
• 20:57
  Jen: yeah.
• 20:58
  Jen: It's, it's really a good place, um- I love it to hear the truth.
• 21:02
  Jen: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Jen: There's a lot of hungry people that just-
• 21:04
  theresa: Mm-hmm
• 21:05
  Jen: they don't see God rightly.
• 21:07
  Jen: They don't know who He is really, and so when we get to, to point people to Jesus, the one who revealed- Yeah perfectly who the Father is, man, it's so fulfilling-
• 21:16
  theresa: Yeah to
• 21:17
  Jen: do that.
• 21:18
  Jen: Um-
• 21:18
  theresa: You know, there's- To see
• 21:19
  Jen: people set free.
• 21:20
  theresa: There's one lady, I'm hoping to get her on the podcast.
• 21:23
  theresa: Her name's Jennifer Beckham.
• 21:25
  Jen: Okay.
• 21:26
  theresa: Lost her husband four years ago, but she's got a congregation on TikTok.
• 21:31
  theresa: I mean, she meets- Okay live at certain hours.
• 21:33
  Jen: Yeah.
• 21:34
  theresa: And I just lo- you know?
• 21:37
  theresa: You know why I love that?
• 21:37
  theresa: I just
• 21:37
  Jen: did a live before I did this.
• 21:39
  Jen: Yeah.
• 21:39
  theresa: Good.
• 21:40
  theresa: Go more live.
• 21:41
  theresa: I'm trying to get myself up to do live and tell stories.
• 21:44
  theresa: But I'm, this is why, that Jennifer and you, they're, interesting they're both the same name.
• 21:50
  theresa: I believed, uh, even in my marriage, I just didn't know how to fulfill it.
• 21:55
  theresa: I so believed that we could connect, that speak the world's listening online.
• 22:01
  theresa: Yeah.
• 22:01
  theresa: And I would go live back in the days when you went live on Facebook and thousands came.
• 22:05
  theresa: It's not like that.
• 22:06
  theresa: They want you to pay.
• 22:07
  theresa: But- Yeah it was like I wasn't speaking from my junk.
• 22:10
  theresa: I was speaking from what God was overflowing- Yeah dealing with what I was.
• 22:15
  theresa: Yeah.
• 22:15
  theresa: And I'm sorry.
• 22:17
  theresa: This is really sad, but people are hungry.
• 22:20
  theresa: And they're not going to church.
• 22:21
  theresa: I mean, unfortunately, we have had so many scandals.
• 22:25
  Jen: Right.
• 22:26
  theresa: Which I don't think tarnishes God, I just show, think it shows the depravity of what we're living in right now.
• 22:32
  theresa: So because of that-
• 22:34
  Jen: Mm-hmm
• 22:35
  theresa: your voice on TikT- oh, man, I gotta go find you.
• 22:38
  theresa: It's so powerful, Jen.
• 22:40
  Jen: Yeah, well, yeah.
• 22:41
  Jen: It's- Yeah, I think
• 22:41
  theresa: people are- Keep going live
• 22:42
  Jen: discouraged and they don't have a lot of trust, I guess- Right like, in the church environment, you know, which is sad, but-
• 22:48
  theresa: No, I'm not laughing at that.
• 22:49
  theresa: I'm just so excited about TikT- Church can happen anywhere.
• 22:51
  theresa: Yeah.
• 22:52
  theresa: You
• 22:52
  Jen: know?
• 22:52
  Jen: We are the church.
• 22:53
  theresa: Yeah.
• 22:54
  Jen: So
• 22:55
  theresa: it can happen.
• 22:55
  theresa: I just, I just struggle with that, Jen, friend to friend.
• 22:57
  theresa: You know, um, I work on Saturday and Sunday, so I'm usually pretty wiped out on Sunday, but I know you can have community in a lot of different ways.
• 23:06
  theresa: I mean, sometimes I can have community on my Zoom camera, and my community's in Vancouver, Texas.
• 23:11
  theresa: I mean, that's community.
• 23:12
  theresa: Right.
• 23:13
  theresa: Um, but I, I'll be honest, I'm still...
• 23:16
  theresa: I'm, I'm single now.
• 23:17
  theresa: I live with my son.
• 23:18
  theresa: I'm still, I work on weekends.
• 23:20
  theresa: I'm still struggling with that.
• 23:22
  theresa: I know I've gone to church with you a lot of times looking for a place to go.
• 23:25
  theresa: I mean, like- Yeah I'll drive to where you're going,'cause- Yeah but so, uh, I don't know.
• 23:30
  theresa: Let, maybe someone's like me.
• 23:32
  theresa: What would you say?
• 23:33
  theresa: Someone's listening and they're like,"Yeah, Tee, I don't know if I wanna go to church anymore." What would you say?
• 23:39
  Jen: You know, I don't think that we have to.
• 23:41
  Jen: And, you know, I think that it's, we don't have to.
• 23:44
  Jen: You know?
• 23:44
  Jen: That it- You said it well um, and so if feeling, like, if someone feels like they have to go-
• 23:51
  theresa: Mm
• 23:51
  Jen: then I think that you're just setting yourself up for a- Yeah not an enjoyable experience.
• 23:56
  Jen: Now, sometimes do, we say,"Yeah, I wanna go.
• 23:58
  Jen: This is something I wanna try." You know, it, it may not be all perfect.
• 24:02
  Jen: Um, thankfully, you know, I, I love the institution of the church.
• 24:06
  Jen: Um- Sure and I did find a really solid, new covenant, finished work of Christ church.
• 24:12
  Jen: I love that.
• 24:12
  Jen: And I love it.
• 24:13
  theresa: Yeah.
• 24:14
  Jen: You know?
• 24:14
  Jen: I love that for you.
• 24:14
  Jen: So they are out there.
• 24:16
  Jen: Healthy churches are out there.
• 24:18
  Jen: You know, but I don't view it now as, like, I have to go.
• 24:21
  Jen: I get to go, and I want to go.
• 24:22
  Jen: Yeah.
• 24:23
  Jen: I feel like that's, that's the way- That's good.
• 24:24
  Jen: Yes that we want to be with all that we do with the Lord.
• 24:28
  Jen: You know, we get to, we don't have to.
• 24:30
  theresa: And your children at your age is so good.
• 24:33
  theresa: You know, I remember my children were probably at the age of your kids, and I chose to go without- Mm-hmm the spouse, because they just needed to be around a, a church body, around a And it was a- Yeah solid little church, and I, but I had to fight to go,'cause someone made me feel guilty for going.
• 24:51
  theresa: So I kinda come from that background.
• 24:52
  theresa: But today, I know who I am.
• 24:55
  Jen: Yeah.
• 24:55
  theresa: I'm speaking from my scars, not my wounds, and I still struggle.
• 24:59
  theresa: I've, I had a talk with a lady on an interview, uh, a while back, and she pretty much said what you said.
• 25:05
  theresa: And, and mentioning that community can be found in a lot of different places.
• 25:10
  theresa: Right.
• 25:10
  theresa: I have a friend who has, every second Saturday, she invites all these women online, and they have community.
• 25:17
  theresa: It's just so beautiful.
• 25:19
  Jen: Oh, that's
• 25:19
  theresa: good.
• 25:19
  theresa: Yeah.
• 25:19
  theresa: You know, but I, I, I too, I, I like the church.
• 25:23
  theresa: I mean, I, I like- Yeah a lot to go to church, but-
• 25:25
  Jen: Yeah
• 25:26
  theresa: um, maybe have to visit your church sometime.
• 25:29
  Jen: Yeah, I'd love for you to.
• 25:29
  theresa: 'Cause there's a part of me that still, you know, wants to That's just- Yeah I'm just being real with Jen, guys, like we're having coffee together, so.
• 25:37
  Jen: Yeah.
• 25:38
  Jen: So- And I love going.
• 25:39
  Jen: The trad- Yeah you know, s- uh, you know, I knew I wanted like-minded families to spend time with-
• 25:45
  theresa: Yeah for
• 25:46
  Jen: my kids, and I've made some great friendships.
• 25:49
  Jen: Oh, good.
• 25:49
  Jen: And, you know, I just, I, I went in not having an expectation.
• 25:53
  Jen: Okay.
• 25:53
  Jen: And when I went to the church where I'm at now, you know, I, it was different.
• 25:58
  Jen: Like, it was- Yeah very different.
• 25:59
  Jen: People were very loving, and, and I'm not saying people are not loving at church- Right, right but it was just a different experience for me.
• 26:05
  Jen: And the scripture that the Lord brought up in my heart was,"You'll know my disciples by their love for one another." And I just saw the fruit of the gospel, no performance, no expectation, just Jesus is the focus, what that environment, what, what it produced.
• 26:21
  Jen: And I was, I just was like,"This is it." So- That's
• 26:25
  theresa: so
• 26:26
  Jen: good we've been there for, um, it'll be three years, and- That's
• 26:29
  theresa: wonderful
• 26:29
  Jen: so, yeah.
• 26:30
  theresa: So with the stance that you're taking and the bold moves on, uh, social, h- have you been asked to speak on some stages lately?
• 26:40
  Jen: So I just spoke at Forward, um, not this Sunday, but the Sunday before.
• 26:44
  Jen: Nice.
• 26:45
  Jen: Um, and so I do a lot of evangelism equipping there, too.
• 26:49
  theresa: Nice.
• 26:49
  Jen: Um, but I've had, like, interviews and stuff online, but not so much, um, in person yet.
• 26:55
  Jen: Okay.
• 26:55
  Jen: But my, you know, my public ministry is kinda newer.
• 26:58
  theresa: Yes.
• 26:59
  Jen: I was ordained through Forward in- Okay last year.
• 27:02
  Jen: Okay.
• 27:03
  Jen: And so I started...
• 27:05
  Jen: So they're very, um, supportive of my ministry and, and- So good it's, it's really great.
• 27:11
  Jen: Um, and there, and there I do more, like, evangelism and I teach discipleship classes-
• 27:16
  theresa: Okay.
• 27:16
  Jen: That's so good and that kinda thing.
• 27:17
  Jen: But then- Yeah individually, I'm working to help people.
• 27:22
  Jen: So, like, I have a website.
• 27:23
  Jen: I've created some resources- Okay to help people get anchored in the- Yeah finished work of Christ, their identity, to understand the gospel, to see God rightly.
• 27:32
  theresa: Yeah.
• 27:32
  Jen: That's so good.
• 27:32
  Jen: Um, to understand the new covenant.
• 27:34
  Jen: Like, I didn't...
• 27:35
  Jen: You know, I had to kinda go seek out those things because I wasn't taught the new covenant.
• 27:40
  Jen: Yeah.
• 27:40
  Jen: But understanding those truths set people free.
• 27:43
  theresa: So good.
• 27:44
  theresa: What's the name of your- So it,
• 27:45
  Jen: it's growing, and it's good.
• 27:46
  Jen: Yeah.
• 27:47
  Jen: And I just- What's the name of your
• 27:48
  theresa: website?
• 27:49
  Jen: Um, it's jennifermerrill.net
• 27:53
  theresa: And how do you spell your last name for those who don't know?
• 27:55
  Jen: M-E-R-R-I-L-L.
• 27:59
  Jen: Jennifer
• 27:59
  theresa: Merrill.
• 28:00
  theresa: And I will link that in the show notes.
• 28:02
  Jen: Yeah.
• 28:02
  Jen: And so it's really just growing and it's, the Lord, you know, I'm like,"Lord, whatever you wanna do with it, we'll do it." So
• 28:09
  theresa: good.
• 28:10
  Jen: Um, we'll do it, so.
• 28:11
  theresa: So listen, if you're on social, I, if you're on TikTok, go find Jennifer.
• 28:15
  theresa: Is it under your name?
• 28:16
  Jen: Yeah, it is.
• 28:17
  Jen: And it's under my name,
• 28:19
  theresa: so.
• 28:19
  theresa: And can I encourage you to keep doing that?
• 28:21
  theresa: You, I mean, you're s- you're doing my heart.
• 28:23
  theresa: I just, I didn't have the freedom.
• 28:24
  theresa: Now I do, but God's leading me this way.
• 28:26
  Jen: Yeah.
• 28:27
  theresa: Yeah.
• 28:27
  theresa: And I just, um, as, as bad as social media can be, I also think it can bring out the gold.
• 28:35
  Jen: Yeah.
• 28:35
  theresa: And, uh- Very- There's sometimes I, I go through TikTok and I get ministered to.
• 28:41
  Jen: Yeah.
• 28:41
  theresa: I mean, I scroll past the stupid stuff.
• 28:44
  theresa: Oh, yeah.
• 28:44
  theresa: But when I found that Jennifer Bec- Beckham, I said,"This is, this is so good." And then, you know- Yeah the salvations and then Jennifer Merrill's on there.
• 28:52
  theresa: That's pretty awesome.
• 28:53
  Jen: I'll have to look her up, too.
• 28:54
  Jen: Yeah.
• 28:54
  Jen: Yeah.
• 28:55
  Jen: It's, um, it's a great place and a good avenue to share the truth, and that there's a bunch of other grace content creators that I've connected to.
• 29:04
  Jen: Oh, good.
• 29:05
  Jen: So God made connections- Yeah and, yeah.
• 29:07
  theresa: Yeah.
• 29:07
  theresa: 'Cause y- you do need a grounding.
• 29:09
  theresa: You don't need to be a lone soldier to go out in those areas of social.
• 29:13
  theresa: You really- Yeah do need some grounding.
• 29:14
  Jen: A lot of resistance to the gospel.
• 29:16
  Jen: Yeah.
• 29:16
  Jen: To the good news.
• 29:17
  Jen: Yeah.
• 29:17
  Jen: And just to Jesus in general, you know?
• 29:19
  Jen: There is a lot of that, a lot of Pharisee-cycle type of things going on.
• 29:23
  Jen: But you know, we just keep preaching- But they, like y- and proclaim and dust our feet off
• 29:27
  theresa: like you said, they'll know them by your love.
• 29:29
  theresa: Y- y- when you look into that camera, you're representing the love of Jesus.
• 29:34
  theresa: I see it, not just'cause you're my friend, but I see it.
• 29:36
  theresa: Yeah.
• 29:36
  theresa: And that's what's needed, so.
• 29:38
  theresa: Yeah.
• 29:38
  theresa: Wow.
• 29:39
  theresa: We got, I gotta come visit you and have some coffee.
• 29:42
  Jen: Yeah.
• 29:42
  Jen: I would love to have you come visit for sure.
• 29:44
  theresa: This is kinda like coffee.
• 29:46
  theresa: I don't live as far away now.
• 29:48
  theresa: I only live- Okay
• 29:49
  Jen: live few.
• 29:49
  Jen: But I would love to see you in person.
• 29:51
  theresa: Yeah.
• 29:51
  theresa: We gotta do that,'cause- Yeah I love your family.
• 29:53
  theresa: I love your mom and dad and your kids.
• 29:55
  Jen: Yeah.
• 29:56
  theresa: I don't know, will your
• 29:56
  Jen: kids- They're going to, uh, church with us now, too.
• 29:59
  theresa: Good.
• 30:00
  theresa: Yeah.
• 30:00
  theresa: Will your ch- will your kids remember me?
• 30:02
  Jen: I think so.
• 30:03
  Jen: I do.
• 30:04
  Jen: I wonder,
• 30:04
  theresa: cause they were
• 30:04
  Jen: little.
• 30:05
  Jen: I, actually Henry and H- Henry did.
• 30:06
  Jen: Yeah,
• 30:06
  theresa: they
• 30:06
  Jen: would.
• 30:07
  Jen: Yeah.
• 30:07
  theresa: She has the most amazing kids, I just have to say that.
• 30:09
  theresa: I mean, it's just- Yeah I'm almost envious of her kids.
• 30:12
  Jen: Aw.
• 30:13
  Jen: They're sweet.
• 30:13
  Jen: They're
• 30:13
  theresa: really good.
• 30:14
  theresa: They're awesome.
• 30:15
  theresa: Yeah.
• 30:15
  theresa: Well, Jen, this has been so good.
• 30:16
  theresa: Thank you for speaking into the lives.
• 30:19
  theresa: I just really believe you, some of your stories were truly gold because out of the- Yeah ash came gold in your life, and I just really appreciate you for sharing that.
• 30:29
  Jen: Yep.
• 30:29
  Jen: Glory to God.
• 30:30
  Jen: I'm so thankful.
• 30:32
  Jen: He is faithful to complete the work that He begins in us, you know?
• 30:36
  Jen: Mm.
• 30:36
  Jen: So he's a good father.
• 30:38
  theresa: Okay.
• 30:38
  theresa: Mm-hmm.
• 30:38
  theresa: All right.
• 30:38
  theresa: This episode is a special feature with the Stuck No More Voices podcast.
• 30:43
  theresa: You know, I want you to do something.
• 30:45
  theresa: I want you to go to JenMerrill.net or-
• 30:48
  Jen: Jenni- Jennifer
• 30:49
  theresa: Merrill Jennifer, sorry.
• 30:50
  theresa: Jennifer.
• 30:51
  theresa: And, or go looking for her.
• 30:53
  Jen: Yeah.
• 30:54
  theresa: Yeah.
• 30:54
  theresa: I mean, I think that would be really supportive.
• 30:56
  theresa: So follow her.
• 30:58
  theresa: And share this episode.
• 30:59
  theresa: I think this episode needs to be shared with a friend of yours while you are listening.
• 31:04
  theresa: Some stories are not for scrolling past.
• 31:08
  theresa: I'm Theresa Croft.
• 31:09
  theresa: I'll talk to you in the next episode of the Stuck No More Voices podcast.