Transcript

Credlin | 25 June · Credlin

0:02
Speaker 1: Pedo Krandland live on Skyins Australia.
0:09
Speaker 2: Good evening, welcome the show. Great to have your company.
0:12
Speaker 2: Here's what's coming up tonight on Kredline. Demands from the
0:14
Speaker 2: federal opposition to the Albanezi government list Hesberteria, the Radical
0:19
Speaker 2: Islamus group linked to the CYDNY Union protests as a
0:22
Speaker 2: terror organization. Senator Macadia Cash tonight with Moore fharmacists furious
0:28
Speaker 2: today after being sold out by Labor to the Greens
0:31
Speaker 2: in order to get their vaping legislation through the Senate.
0:34
Speaker 3: It's policy on the.
0:35
Speaker 2: Run with no consultation at all with industry. We'll speak
0:39
Speaker 2: to the Pharmacy Guild about what this all means as
0:42
Speaker 2: the Coalition announces its position on vapes as well. Plus
0:46
Speaker 2: the backflip for the Victorian Premier who will now roll
0:49
Speaker 2: out taxpayer funded testing for illicit drugs. It's a green
0:53
Speaker 2: light for the dealers and sends a shocking message to
0:56
Speaker 2: young people that illegal drugs aren't so ill eagle anymore.
1:02
Speaker 2: We'll also take a look at a new inquiry in
1:04
Speaker 2: to move to lower the burden of proof in a
1:06
Speaker 2: rape trial, which critics say will have a devastating impact
1:10
Speaker 2: on our justice system and the big news today a
1:14
Speaker 2: likely guilty plea and release for Julian Massage as he
1:18
Speaker 2: slipped out of the UK on a private plane this morning.
1:22
Speaker 4: Regardless of the views that people have about mister Osanz's activities,
1:27
Speaker 4: the case is dragged on for too long. I will
1:29
Speaker 4: have more to say when these legal proceedings have concluded,
1:33
Speaker 4: which I hope will be very soon.
1:37
Speaker 2: But first, the more that's discovered about the Matt Keane appointment,
1:40
Speaker 2: the more it looks like a short.
1:41
Speaker 3: Bit of political trickery.
1:44
Speaker 2: To start with, the Climate Change Authority is supposed to
1:47
Speaker 2: be the source of independent advice to government, not a
1:50
Speaker 2: part as an entity barracking for government policy. Say what
1:55
Speaker 2: you like about previous heads such as former Reserve Bank
1:58
Speaker 2: Governor Bernie Fraser, former Business Council chief Grant King, Well,
2:03
Speaker 2: they weren't political operatives. It could be expected to do
2:06
Speaker 2: the government's bidding. But that's what Matt Kean is paid
2:10
Speaker 2: his thirty pieces of silver by labor. He's already dumped
2:14
Speaker 2: his previous support for nuclear power to now claim it
2:17
Speaker 2: would bankrupt Australia. Then there's the fact that cabinet appointment
2:22
Speaker 2: says this one supposedly was should be subject to due
2:26
Speaker 2: diligence over conflicts of interest. Now, having worked on cabinet
2:31
Speaker 2: appointments in the past, I know that the paperwork involved
2:34
Speaker 2: takes weeks. So the idea that Keen could announce his
2:39
Speaker 2: resignation from State Parliament one week and being pointed to
2:43
Speaker 2: this new job days later suggests that none of the
2:46
Speaker 2: usual due diligence has been done. Then there's the fact
2:50
Speaker 2: that the current Climate Change Authority head wasn't due to
2:53
Speaker 2: leave until April next year, when his four year term expired.
2:58
Speaker 3: It looks pretty clear what's happened.
3:00
Speaker 2: Maybe Chris Bowen's been thinking about Keen for some time
3:03
Speaker 2: for this job. There's a report today that they've been
3:06
Speaker 2: talking for over a month. But when Peter Dutton announced
3:10
Speaker 2: his nuclear commitments last week, the Energy Minister, Bowen and
3:14
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister obviously put their heads together to try
3:18
Speaker 2: and embarrass the opposition leader and humiliate the Liberal Party
3:22
Speaker 2: as well as get a climate fanatic, a pro or
3:25
Speaker 2: sorry now anti nuclear climate fanatic into this job. So
3:30
Speaker 2: they decided, let's fast track Matt Keen as the Climate
3:33
Speaker 2: Change Authority head. Let's replace the pro nuclear grant king
3:38
Speaker 2: with the now reliably anti nuclear Matt Keen, and then
3:42
Speaker 2: to get Grant King to go quietly and early. Let's
3:47
Speaker 2: get our mates in New South Wales to appoint him
3:49
Speaker 2: to the Board of transcrit the New South Wales Electricity
3:53
Speaker 2: Distribution Network.
3:55
Speaker 3: Well that's precisely what's happened. Makes it all.
3:58
Speaker 2: Look as dodgy is held, isn't it Given the Greens
4:02
Speaker 2: are against the appointment of a former Liberal minister to
4:04
Speaker 2: do this job.
4:05
Speaker 3: If the coalition was smart, it.
4:07
Speaker 2: Would move to have a Senate committee look at this
4:12
Speaker 2: to expose the machinations with an inquiry. As I said
4:16
Speaker 2: last night, there's an obvious stitch up here that will
4:19
Speaker 2: turn out to be an own goal by the almed
4:21
Speaker 2: Easy government because all they've done is prove the point
4:24
Speaker 2: that I've been making for.
4:25
Speaker 3: Years and years.
4:26
Speaker 2: The Keen is agreed in Liberal clothing and now he's
4:30
Speaker 2: been exposed. But just like Labor appointing the disgrace liberal
4:35
Speaker 2: Peter Slipper a speaker to save Julia Gillard's government, Labour
4:40
Speaker 2: should not get away with discrediting the process of government again.
4:45
Speaker 2: And I might add Liberal Party in New South Wales,
4:48
Speaker 2: well they should have the guts to now expel keen
4:51
Speaker 2: or have they capitulated to the Greens as well?
5:00
Speaker 3: Now I'm going to smoker.
5:01
Speaker 2: I'm all in favor of trying to minimize the harm
5:03
Speaker 2: from nicodeine addiction, but the government's latest move on vaping
5:08
Speaker 2: smacks of desperation to be seen to be doing something. Originally,
5:12
Speaker 2: the government's plan was that would be vapors would need
5:15
Speaker 2: a prescription from a doctor, who would presumably have warned
5:18
Speaker 2: them about potential nicodine addiction and all the health risks.
5:22
Speaker 2: But doctors don't much like facilitating nicotine addiction, and the
5:26
Speaker 2: Green to Labor rely on to pass legislation. We're against
5:30
Speaker 2: a ban because basically they are a pro drug party
5:33
Speaker 2: as we know. So the latest plan is to turn
5:36
Speaker 2: pharmacists into tobacconists by having would be vapors confined to
5:41
Speaker 2: getting their supplies from the local chemist. Presumably the government
5:45
Speaker 2: thinks that pharmacists health advice will discourage their potential customers.
5:50
Speaker 3: But what if it would be vapor isn't put off?
5:53
Speaker 2: Is the pharmacist allowed to refuse the sale if vaping
5:57
Speaker 2: is as dangerous to young people's health and as ative
6:00
Speaker 2: as the medical authority say it is, why not simply
6:04
Speaker 2: ban it? Or why I treat it like tobacco and
6:07
Speaker 2: regulate it and tax it. Not only is this poorly
6:12
Speaker 2: thought through policy on the run, it's also Labour's double
6:16
Speaker 2: standards here, cracking down on legal tobacco while constantly easing
6:22
Speaker 2: up on illicit hard drugs. The Act Labor government now
6:26
Speaker 2: treats recreational drug use more leniently than speeding and Victorian
6:31
Speaker 2: Labor overnight has just announced a new pill testing regime,
6:35
Speaker 2: as if there's a safe way to use illegal drugs
6:38
Speaker 2: invariably obtained.
6:40
Speaker 3: Via criminal gangs and ames.
6:42
Speaker 2: For the poor old pharmacists who've already suffered significant financial
6:46
Speaker 2: loss under this government, the fact that they haven't even
6:49
Speaker 2: been consulted about this latest move is insulting, to say
6:53
Speaker 2: the least.
7:00
Speaker 3: Forgive me if I don't.
7:01
Speaker 2: Share the rejoicing at the freedom of Julian No Sage.
7:04
Speaker 2: I'm sure he shouldn't and couldn't be kept locked up indefinitely,
7:09
Speaker 2: but so far he's been in self imposed captivity, first
7:12
Speaker 2: in the Ecuadorian embassy in London and then later in
7:15
Speaker 2: a British prison fighting extradition charges because he has refused
7:20
Speaker 2: to face trial for what he did, which was to
7:23
Speaker 2: publicize to the world, including our enemies, vast amounts of
7:27
Speaker 2: secret intelligence which has put our nation's security at risk,
7:31
Speaker 2: and the lives of intelligence and military officers that he exposed,
7:37
Speaker 2: like operatives in dangerous places like Tehran, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan,
7:42
Speaker 2: brave people who we rely on to feed us information
7:46
Speaker 2: to keep us safe. To me, this guy's more traitor
7:50
Speaker 2: than hero. Let's not forget. He also hid away to
7:55
Speaker 2: avoid facing trial for rape in Sweden. Now that's something
7:59
Speaker 2: the left light to ignore, isn't it, even in this
8:01
Speaker 2: age of me to activism. So yes, the massage issue
8:06
Speaker 2: could not have gone on indefinitely, But I think he
8:09
Speaker 2: should have faced a trial and the proper judgment of
8:12
Speaker 2: a court, not be let out via a grubby backroom deal. Now, I,
8:17
Speaker 2: like others in the media, I've had plenty of briefings
8:20
Speaker 2: about Assage. I'm obviously constrained about what I can say publicly,
8:25
Speaker 2: But Julian Assange is no freedom fighter. Losing a decade
8:31
Speaker 2: of his life strikes me is no less than he
8:33
Speaker 2: deserves for recklessly endangering people's lives and selling out our
8:38
Speaker 2: country and our allies. All right, let's go to Camber
8:46
Speaker 2: now for the headlines.
8:47
Speaker 3: We're joined now by cam Reddin Good Evening.
8:51
Speaker 5: For the first time in more than a decade, the
8:53
Speaker 5: WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is a free man. Departing a
8:57
Speaker 5: London prison after five years, ar boards a plane bound
9:01
Speaker 5: for the island of Saipan in the Pacific. A court
9:04
Speaker 5: hearing in the US territory will see him plead guilty
9:07
Speaker 5: to breaching espionage law, but with time already served, he
9:11
Speaker 5: will then be free to return to Australia.
9:14
Speaker 1: The idea that he would be coming home to see
9:18
Speaker 1: his wife and his two young kids, along with his family,
9:20
Speaker 1: friends and supporters, obviously is unbelievably welcome.
9:23
Speaker 5: Labour has watered down its proposed anti vaping laws to
9:26
Speaker 5: allow purchases from pharmacies without a doctor's prescription. Labour's laws
9:31
Speaker 5: would ban retail trade of vapes from Monday, but they
9:35
Speaker 5: could still be purchased from a pharmacy.
9:38
Speaker 6: Our determination to return vapes to their original intention and
9:43
Speaker 6: that is a therapeutic product.
9:45
Speaker 5: Pharmacists are furious, claiming the shift would turn local chemists
9:49
Speaker 5: into de facto vape shops.
9:51
Speaker 7: Pharmacies did not ask for this. Consumers and patients didn't
9:54
Speaker 7: ask for this.
9:55
Speaker 8: We can't let perfect be the enemy of good.
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Speaker 5: The Coalition has proposed an alternate model that would keep
10:01
Speaker 5: vapes on sale. That's supermarkets and newsagents, but with tough restrictions.
10:05
Speaker 2: Plane packaging behind the counter and making sure that nobody
10:09
Speaker 2: under the age of eighteen can legally or illegally get
10:12
Speaker 2: access to these products. All right, let's get into some
10:16
Speaker 2: of those headlines now. I'm joined by Sky News Political
10:19
Speaker 2: editor Andrew Clanell. Well, Andrew, we've had some late news
10:22
Speaker 2: out of the Parliament this afternoon. Layer Senator Fatima Payment,
10:26
Speaker 2: she's crossed the floor. This is a big deal in
10:29
Speaker 2: the Labor Party. She's crossed the floor to vote with
10:31
Speaker 2: the Greens on an urgency motion to recognize Palestine. Here's
10:35
Speaker 2: a little of what she's had to say not long
10:37
Speaker 2: ago on this decision. And if she thinks she'll be
10:40
Speaker 2: expelled from Labor.
10:43
Speaker 9: I was elected to serve the people of Western Australia
10:47
Speaker 9: and uphold the values instilled in me by my late father.
10:51
Speaker 10: Today I have made a decision.
10:52
Speaker 9: That would make him proud and make everyone proud who
10:57
Speaker 9: are on the side of humanity in the labelingdi that
11:02
Speaker 9: is a prerogative for my party. I believe that I
11:05
Speaker 9: have upheld the party ethos and called for what the
11:12
Speaker 9: party's platform as stippily.
11:16
Speaker 3: But I understand you were at the press conference.
11:18
Speaker 2: Give us a sense of the reaction, whether or not
11:21
Speaker 2: to label a blindsided by this move, and what you
11:24
Speaker 2: expect to happen next.
11:28
Speaker 11: Well.
11:28
Speaker 1: I mean, it's quite the dilemma for Anthony Albanisi and
11:32
Speaker 1: can be framed as a test of his leadership. I mean,
11:35
Speaker 1: this PM at the moment, even when he thinks he's
11:39
Speaker 1: having a good day, it turns into a bad day.
11:41
Speaker 1: He thought, I understand your views on Julian Assange, but
11:45
Speaker 1: for him that was a good news story, his efforts
11:47
Speaker 1: at diplomacy, releasing an Australian citizen who many Australians think
11:52
Speaker 1: has spent long enough rotting in jail. But now this evening,
11:56
Speaker 1: just before your show, fatim of payment has blind sided
12:00
Speaker 1: labor and cross the floor. Now they feared she crossed
12:03
Speaker 1: the floor on this Green's motion the need for the
12:05
Speaker 1: Senate to recognize the state of Palestine. But let's put
12:09
Speaker 1: this in context, Peter, she said us. The first time
12:12
Speaker 1: this has happened in government with a Labor MP for
12:14
Speaker 1: three decades, and that's because we know the Liberals always
12:17
Speaker 1: crossed the floor. They don't get thrown out of the
12:19
Speaker 1: party if they do so. It's in the Labor Party rules.
12:21
Speaker 1: You've got to be expelled from the party if you
12:23
Speaker 1: do so. That would mean one less number in the
12:25
Speaker 1: Senate if he did it, But it would also mean
12:29
Speaker 1: that he is punting a twenty nine year old Muslim
12:34
Speaker 1: woman and how do you reckon that would go in
12:36
Speaker 1: Western Sydney. So he has a heck of a dilemma here.
12:40
Speaker 1: He could suspend her. That's what Bob Hawk did to
12:42
Speaker 1: George Campbell and another senator back in.
12:46
Speaker 11: Nineteen eighty six.
12:47
Speaker 1: But he's basically been done over by a twenty nine
12:51
Speaker 1: year old Muslim West Australian woman here the Prime Minister
12:55
Speaker 1: and she's said these words you just heard. I was
12:57
Speaker 1: not elected as a token or a present entitive of diversity. Now,
13:02
Speaker 1: before she voted, she spent around fifteen minutes, I'm told,
13:06
Speaker 1: talking to the chief of Staff of the Independent David Pocock,
13:11
Speaker 1: and she said at that press.
13:12
Speaker 11: Conference, I just made my mind up.
13:13
Speaker 1: In the chamber, we had an effort by Penny Wong,
13:16
Speaker 1: the government leader in the Senate earlier today to amend
13:20
Speaker 1: that Green's motion which said the need for the Senate
13:22
Speaker 1: to recognize the state of Palestine, and the Green's knocked
13:27
Speaker 1: back that amendment. Only thirteen people voted for this bill,
13:31
Speaker 1: which Fatima Payment has staked her political future on the
13:34
Speaker 1: Greens David Pocock, Lydia Thorpe and Fatima Payment. So it
13:39
Speaker 1: is an extraordinary turn of events. I have to admit
13:41
Speaker 1: I would have thought she'd abstained. I think she'd abstained
13:44
Speaker 1: previously on these issues. You can get away with that,
13:46
Speaker 1: you're not breaking the rules. We've got a National Executive.
13:49
Speaker 11: Of the Labor Party meeting on Friday.
13:52
Speaker 1: We've got inflation figures out tomorrow monthly.
13:54
Speaker 11: They're probably not going to be good for the government.
13:57
Speaker 1: The PM was supposed to be standing up finally on
13:59
Speaker 1: Julian Assara once this has gone through the courts, but
14:02
Speaker 1: now he's going to be met with questions about what
14:04
Speaker 1: he's going to do about this. And the problem is,
14:07
Speaker 1: let's just say they suspend her or they say we're
14:10
Speaker 1: leaving it alone. What precedent does that set because Adam
14:14
Speaker 1: Bank can.
14:15
Speaker 11: Just make it.
14:15
Speaker 3: They can't leave it alone.
14:19
Speaker 2: I don't think they can leave it alone because and
14:22
Speaker 2: she will cross the fourth direct and he's.
14:25
Speaker 3: And he was pretty clear.
14:26
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister was pretty clear last night the last
14:29
Speaker 2: time with their statements about River to the Sea, as
14:32
Speaker 2: she was given a very sharp rebuke. She's on borrowed time.
14:36
Speaker 2: She has been warned and she can't act the naive
14:39
Speaker 2: game and those lines about I wasn't elected as a
14:41
Speaker 2: diversity candidate. We also weren't elected as a Palestinian representative either.
14:45
Speaker 2: You know, you were elected to represent on w A
14:48
Speaker 2: citizens across the board. And I guess you know this
14:52
Speaker 2: is it is a test, as you say, rightly, for
14:54
Speaker 2: Albanezy's leadership.
14:56
Speaker 3: But if he doesn't move on her, he will look
15:00
Speaker 3: very weak.
15:00
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, well that's right.
15:02
Speaker 1: And Darton will be saying that because you'll say, well,
15:05
Speaker 1: they're the Labor Party rules, and Labor will say, well,
15:07
Speaker 1: you're people'll bridget arches across the floor one hundred and
15:09
Speaker 1: thirty times. But that's different, isn't it, Because it's not
15:12
Speaker 1: in the rules that you can't and that's not in
15:15
Speaker 1: the real parent That's why that's why no one you
15:18
Speaker 1: know in Labor has crossed for so long whereas it
15:20
Speaker 1: happens at a liberal party all the time. We've seen over
15:22
Speaker 1: the years that happened on asylum seekers, on religious freedom,
15:25
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, and looks very divisive.
15:28
Speaker 3: To go back to Malcoulton would expeller.
15:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's but if he used to expel her, he
15:33
Speaker 1: could martyr her. Frankly, so I think maybe the suspension route.
15:39
Speaker 11: But then how does that end?
15:41
Speaker 1: Okay, suspend her for three months and then what she
15:43
Speaker 1: comes back, does she start voting against you again? It's
15:47
Speaker 1: really problematic. It's a massive headache for Anthony Albanezi. And
15:51
Speaker 1: it's no small issue. I mean, your viewers might be saying, Okay,
15:54
Speaker 1: it's one vote, but what does it lead to? And
15:58
Speaker 1: especially when they don't have the numbers in the Senate,
16:01
Speaker 1: you know, So it's kind of a fascinating dilemma. He
16:05
Speaker 1: thought he was flying earlier in the day, Anthony Albaneze.
16:08
Speaker 11: He had his tail up in question time.
16:09
Speaker 1: He thought, I've had this great assiance victory and a
16:12
Speaker 1: twenty nine year old woman from Western Australia has pulled
16:16
Speaker 1: the rug from under his feet. Now, as you say,
16:18
Speaker 1: and as she said, she's there to represent West Australian's
16:21
Speaker 1: true and the Labor Party. But she actually mentioned her
16:24
Speaker 1: late father would be proud of her. She's you know,
16:28
Speaker 1: I don't want to be unkind, but she's not there
16:30
Speaker 1: to form of views. Yeah, yeah, so you know it
16:37
Speaker 1: kind of it's an interesting argument. It's something the government
16:41
Speaker 1: should have thrown the kitchen sinkat to prevent. Let's face it, Peter,
16:45
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been in these scenarios. You can often
16:48
Speaker 1: sometimes you can't. Sometimes they're just determined, but there are
16:52
Speaker 1: plenty of near mauns.
16:53
Speaker 2: I I spent a decade as a Senate staffer in
16:57
Speaker 2: the Howard era and there are many times remember Fielding.
17:01
Speaker 2: I remember when Barnaby Joyce arrived in the Senate. I
17:03
Speaker 2: spent He'll tell you this, I spent hours and hours
17:06
Speaker 2: trying to get him to climb down from ledgers on
17:09
Speaker 2: a daily basis and avoid crossing the floor. So I
17:12
Speaker 2: can see that this would have been very high drama
17:15
Speaker 2: for the government today. You know, rightly you say there's
17:17
Speaker 2: been a win for the Prime Minister on Assange.
17:19
Speaker 3: I do agree this she needed to be dealt with.
17:21
Speaker 2: I would much have preferred him face justice in a
17:25
Speaker 2: courtroom and not a deal involving Kevin Rudd and a
17:28
Speaker 2: whole lot of diplomats.
17:29
Speaker 3: But it is what it is now.
17:32
Speaker 2: I just don't want him held up with some sort
17:34
Speaker 2: of patrons say to freedom and media.
17:38
Speaker 3: Because he's anything. But I think he's a trader. I
17:41
Speaker 3: think he's a fraud. I think he's many other things.
17:43
Speaker 2: And he'll now be lionized by places like the ABC
17:48
Speaker 2: just on Question Time because massage wasn't a feature of
17:52
Speaker 2: Question Time, of course, it was back on all the
17:54
Speaker 2: energy stuff. You're pretty tough on the government yesterday they
17:58
Speaker 2: were not going after the nuclear policy from the coalition
18:01
Speaker 2: announced the previous week. How did you rate their performance today?
18:05
Speaker 2: They took it up a notch, but I still don't
18:07
Speaker 2: think they've got their line and length here.
18:10
Speaker 11: No, No, Well.
18:11
Speaker 1: It soundless like they listened, didn't They almost? But I
18:13
Speaker 1: mean Albanezy was making much more of an attempt. But
18:16
Speaker 1: I do think this is a bit of a weakness
18:18
Speaker 1: for them in their communication. I mean, people talk about
18:21
Speaker 1: Jim Chalmers as a good communicator. He gives good grabs
18:24
Speaker 1: right vir six o'clock News, there's no doubt about it.
18:26
Speaker 1: But he ain't keeping like he did his thesis on
18:29
Speaker 1: how great a parliamentary orator Keating was. I was here
18:32
Speaker 1: when Costello was on fire. You know, they just don't
18:35
Speaker 1: have someone like that. The person who probably comes close
18:38
Speaker 1: to it is Jason Claire. But really I just think
18:41
Speaker 1: standards around there have dropped in that dropped in this
18:43
Speaker 1: place now.
18:44
Speaker 11: You know, it's not a clown show.
18:46
Speaker 1: We shouldn't be looking for just people who can deliver zingers,
18:49
Speaker 1: but gee, they're important just to encapsulate an issue. We're
18:52
Speaker 1: in the communication business, you know. We're about explaining hims
18:56
Speaker 1: as clearly as possible and the best way for the
18:59
Speaker 1: viewers to unders stand. And I think the government's failing
19:02
Speaker 1: to do that at the moment. And I think Peter Dutton,
19:04
Speaker 1: who is pretty punchy with what he says, can see
19:07
Speaker 1: that he can get over Alban easy on that aspect.
19:10
Speaker 1: He's got pretty high risk of nuclear I'm not sure
19:12
Speaker 1: he had to go for seven power plants and all
19:14
Speaker 1: the rest. But one Liberal front bench just said to
19:17
Speaker 1: me over the weekend Peter that basically you don't win
19:20
Speaker 1: in one term in Australia by just inching up as
19:22
Speaker 1: they have been.
19:24
Speaker 11: You know they're going forward.
19:25
Speaker 1: I want to win government I want to just put
19:27
Speaker 1: these guys in hung Parliament. But it's one of those
19:30
Speaker 1: situations where when you go for it, then you leave
19:33
Speaker 1: your defense a bit exposed as well, and you can
19:35
Speaker 1: get done.
19:36
Speaker 11: But they're having a crack.
19:37
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any doubt about that, and that
19:40
Speaker 1: really makes it look like a very fascinating election campaign
19:44
Speaker 1: and one of the more polarized ones that we've had
19:46
Speaker 1: in recent years, because the two sides study the polling
19:49
Speaker 1: and the focus groups very closely, and this is one
19:52
Speaker 1: of the reasons we've had close elections.
19:54
Speaker 11: This one's a bit different. This is this is a.
19:56
Speaker 1: Real debate and I think, I think really interesting election
19:59
Speaker 1: coming up.
19:59
Speaker 2: I'll finish this point and I couldn't agree more. I
20:02
Speaker 2: think you have to go in hard on an issue.
20:05
Speaker 2: All credits to the opposition. They've picked an issue of policy.
20:08
Speaker 2: This is not about personalities. He's not trying to run
20:10
Speaker 2: Albanezi into the ground. He's put a lot of clarity
20:13
Speaker 2: there in terms of issues and ideology between him and Labor.
20:17
Speaker 2: There's now a difference between the two major parties. There
20:20
Speaker 2: hasn't been a difference since chiny Abbott was there. I
20:23
Speaker 2: would argue is now a really clear black and white
20:26
Speaker 2: difference for voters. And I think he's backing himself after
20:29
Speaker 2: the Voice. You know, he went for the voice when
20:31
Speaker 2: it wasn't popular in the polls. I think he turned
20:34
Speaker 2: that issue around and I think he's backing his judgment.
20:36
Speaker 3: We'll see.
20:37
Speaker 2: Well, goodness, people watch tomorrow to see what the Prime
20:39
Speaker 2: Minister does with this dance and fatima payment. Thank you
20:43
Speaker 2: very much, Andrew. What I want to go down to
20:45
Speaker 2: the issue of vapes. You recall the government made a
20:47
Speaker 2: big song of dance about banning vapes and I only
20:50
Speaker 2: allowing their use under prescription from GPS. But in a
20:53
Speaker 2: huge capitulation to the pro drug Greens in the center,
20:58
Speaker 2: the governments now dropped the GPS and will force pharmacists
21:02
Speaker 2: to offer them for sale without prescription. For more on this,
21:05
Speaker 2: I'm joined now by the President of the Pharmacy Guild,
21:07
Speaker 2: Victoria Anthony to Soni Anthony, welcome again. Yet again we're
21:13
Speaker 2: talking about bad policy foisted upon your industry. What sort
21:18
Speaker 2: of consultation did you have with this move that was
21:20
Speaker 2: done last night regarding a deal with the Greens.
21:26
Speaker 3: None, Peter.
21:26
Speaker 7: We were blindsided by this proposal and this secret deal
21:31
Speaker 7: between the Labor Government and the Greens. We were reading
21:34
Speaker 7: detail of this arrangement they came to in a media
21:37
Speaker 7: release from the Greens Party. We weren't consulted, we weren't
21:40
Speaker 7: asked our views, and we did not ask for this
21:44
Speaker 7: to happen in terms of supply of nicotine containing weight
21:49
Speaker 7: products from community pharmacies without a prescription from the doctor.
21:52
Speaker 7: In fact, no one asked for it besides the Greens.
21:54
Speaker 7: Consumers and patients in and asked for it. Pharmacies did
21:56
Speaker 7: and asked for it, The Greens demanded it, and in
21:59
Speaker 7: a seat scre deal between the Labor Government and the Greens,
22:02
Speaker 7: that's what they've come up with. And despite our profession
22:06
Speaker 7: being expected to enable this supply function for nicotine containing
22:12
Speaker 7: vapes that have very little evidence of therapeutic benefit to
22:16
Speaker 7: help quit smoking as a smoking cessation tool, legitimizing these
22:20
Speaker 7: products on the shelves of pharmacies and expecting pharmacists to
22:24
Speaker 7: have conversations with patients and people presenting requesting them without
22:30
Speaker 7: any guidance of protocols or guidelines of what discussions we're
22:34
Speaker 7: meant to have to establish whether there is a therapeutic need.
22:38
Speaker 7: This is just health policy on the run at its worst.
22:44
Speaker 3: I go to a pharmacy like everyone does.
22:47
Speaker 2: You can see how busy the pharmacists, particularly with older
22:50
Speaker 2: people going through their medicines, making sure they understand their dosage, etc.
22:54
Speaker 2: I mean, where are you supposed to have these conversations?
22:57
Speaker 2: The onus from the government stands you're supposed to be
23:00
Speaker 2: the front line.
23:01
Speaker 3: To get people off vapes.
23:03
Speaker 2: If not, you're meant to hand them over Now you
23:06
Speaker 2: don't sell cigarettes. This puts you at odds with all
23:09
Speaker 2: other health professions if you're flogging vapes.
23:14
Speaker 7: We're here community pharmacies as the most frequently visited and
23:18
Speaker 7: accessible primary health care destination in Australia to deliver health care,
23:22
Speaker 7: not to pedle nicotine containing vapes that have little evidence
23:27
Speaker 7: of being a therapeutic benefit. They're not registered on the
23:31
Speaker 7: Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods from our medicines regulator, the Therapeutic
23:35
Speaker 7: Goods Administration.
23:35
Speaker 12: The TGA.
23:37
Speaker 7: Thanks to a secret deal between the Labor Government and
23:39
Speaker 7: the Greens, we're writing rough shod over our public health
23:42
Speaker 7: experts that we've trusted for decades to give advice on
23:45
Speaker 7: the appropriate availability and accessibility to medicines. And devices, and
23:50
Speaker 7: because of a deal to get something through the Senate,
23:53
Speaker 7: we're just writing rough shod over our public health experts
23:56
Speaker 7: and forcing this on a profession that hasn't been consulted
23:59
Speaker 7: or asked to your question, where would these conversations happen.
24:03
Speaker 7: Pharmacies are well equipped to have conversations with patients in
24:07
Speaker 7: private areas. And we're doing so much more in primary
24:10
Speaker 7: health care in terms of prescribing antibiotics for urinary tract
24:13
Speaker 7: infections and repeat prescriptions for all contraceptives.
24:15
Speaker 3: And we want to do more.
24:17
Speaker 7: Healthcare healthcare of providing medicines that have a therapeutic benefit,
24:22
Speaker 7: that have demonstrated safety and quality, not these devices containing
24:27
Speaker 7: nicotine that have questionable therapeutic benefit, questionable long term safety.
24:33
Speaker 7: We don't even know, Peter, from our professional indemnity perspective,
24:38
Speaker 7: whether it will be covered to provide these products without
24:41
Speaker 7: a doctor's prescription. We don't know what it means for
24:45
Speaker 7: our business insurance premiums, potentially becoming a target for organized crime.
24:50
Speaker 7: There's so many different considerations, and what we need to
24:54
Speaker 7: do here is we need the government has an opportunity
24:57
Speaker 7: to pause here and not go ahead with this, and
25:00
Speaker 7: it's being debated in the Senate and across the earl
25:03
Speaker 7: from the government, there could be some likelihood that there
25:05
Speaker 7: could be support for the bill and its original form
25:08
Speaker 7: from the House that you know, to continue in its
25:11
Speaker 7: original form on a doctor's prescription.
25:13
Speaker 3: Down the path. We need to sit down. Yeah, just
25:18
Speaker 3: to interrupt there.
25:19
Speaker 2: Sorry, what happens if a pharmacist was to say, no way,
25:22
Speaker 2: I'm not going to sell vapes. It goes against everything
25:24
Speaker 2: we believe in as healthcare professionals.
25:26
Speaker 3: Can the government force you to do that?
25:30
Speaker 11: No?
25:31
Speaker 7: The Minister Butler indicated today that that would not be
25:35
Speaker 7: forced on individual pharmacies. It's a matter for individual pharmacies
25:38
Speaker 7: to make that decision or choice whether they do so.
25:41
Speaker 7: And I've been contacted by dozens of pharmacy owners and
25:43
Speaker 7: pharmacists in the last twenty four hours horrified at this proposal,
25:47
Speaker 7: which the Pharmacy Guild and our profession strongly opposes, and
25:50
Speaker 7: we're consulted on so I can tell you there will
25:52
Speaker 7: be many pharmacies that will choose not to do so.
25:56
Speaker 7: As a Schedule three or pharmacists only medicine, we have
26:00
Speaker 7: a legal and professional obligation to determine a therapeutic need
26:04
Speaker 7: for a patient before supplying that medicine or good. And
26:08
Speaker 7: it's very difficult to demonstrate a therapeutic need if something
26:12
Speaker 7: is not a therapeutic device or good. And there's no
26:14
Speaker 7: guidance as to when you should or really shouldn't provide that.
26:20
Speaker 2: All right, keep finding Anthony, We'll stay across it here
26:22
Speaker 2: on Kredlin and see what happens in the next couple
26:24
Speaker 2: of days. Thanks for joining us tonight.
26:26
Speaker 3: How's I said?
26:27
Speaker 2: Do you either ban them and band them properly or
26:29
Speaker 2: you regulate and tax them like cigarettes?
26:32
Speaker 3: But this is being half pregnant here tonight from.
26:33
Speaker 2: Labor all right after the break calls to list here
26:36
Speaker 2: is the most extremist script, hizbit Teria as a terror organization.
26:40
Speaker 2: It's been at linked to the Sydney UNI protest. So
26:42
Speaker 2: why is the Prime Minister dragging his heels? Plus Victoria
26:47
Speaker 2: waving the white flag on drugs, joins the Act and
26:50
Speaker 2: Queensland now where illegal drugs are not so illegal anymore.
26:55
Speaker 3: Crime writer Mark Murray with Moore.
27:02
Speaker 2: Welcome back, is still to calm the worrying law reforms
27:04
Speaker 2: being proposed that will up end centuries of criminal law
27:08
Speaker 2: with moves to lower the burden of proof in rape trials.
27:12
Speaker 2: But first, the Albanezi government appears to be ignoring growing
27:15
Speaker 2: calls to list the is the most extremist group his
27:18
Speaker 2: Bitteria as a terrorist organization. The UK and Germany have
27:22
Speaker 2: already done so, yet here in Australia it's not been done,
27:26
Speaker 2: despite the group being linked to that gathering in lakember
27:30
Speaker 2: on October eighth where they refer to the attack on
27:33
Speaker 2: Israel as a day of pride. There's also very serious
27:37
Speaker 2: concerns Hisberteria has infiltrated the Muslim Students Association, which has
27:42
Speaker 2: just struck a deal with the University of Sydney that
27:45
Speaker 2: impacts defense research. Now, the job of listing a terror
27:49
Speaker 2: organization sits with the Attorney General Mark Dreyfuss, So why
27:53
Speaker 2: is he refusing to act?
27:55
Speaker 3: Joining me?
27:56
Speaker 2: Now is his counterpart Shadow Attorney General, Senator mckayley Cash. Well,
28:01
Speaker 2: there's a clear body of evidence Michaulia Cash that says
28:04
Speaker 2: says but Teria should be listed, and pretty significant international precedents.
28:09
Speaker 3: So why the lack of action from the government.
28:12
Speaker 13: Well, that's a very good question of Perhaps the Attorney
28:14
Speaker 13: General Mark Dreyfus might like to come.
28:17
Speaker 3: On your show and answer it.
28:18
Speaker 13: The United Kingdom and Germany have both listed his but Teria.
28:23
Speaker 13: It is pretty obvious in Australia that they have been
28:26
Speaker 13: involved in terrible demonstrations in relation to what occurred on
28:31
Speaker 13: October the seventh pro Palestinian demonstrations. But Peter, our terrorist
28:37
Speaker 13: listing rules are very very clear. If you promote, if
28:41
Speaker 13: you foster, if you encourage, if you even praise this
28:46
Speaker 13: type of extremist measures, then you can be listed under
28:51
Speaker 13: our Criminal Code. And as you said, it is now
28:54
Speaker 13: for the Attorney General of Australia to explain to all
28:58
Speaker 13: Australians why the United Kingdom and Germany have listed them.
29:03
Speaker 13: But based on the evidence here in Australia, they haven't
29:06
Speaker 13: and I would urge them to.
29:09
Speaker 3: Look at whether or not they.
29:10
Speaker 13: Should be urgently listing His Victoria as a terrorist organization.
29:17
Speaker 2: Now, I'm assuming you're in the Senate this afternoon with
29:19
Speaker 2: this move by Fatim and payment on a Green's motion
29:22
Speaker 2: regarding Palestine. When she crossed the floor, I was just
29:25
Speaker 2: discussing with Andrew Clanell. We've had a statement come in
29:28
Speaker 2: now from a Labour spokesman on Payment. They've said, the
29:32
Speaker 2: Senator maintains strong labor values, she intends to continue representing
29:36
Speaker 2: Western Australians. There is no mandated sanction, they say in
29:41
Speaker 2: these circumstances, and previous Caucus members have crossed the floor
29:46
Speaker 2: without facing expulsion. Now I have to say, I remember
29:51
Speaker 2: class Senator colstered in years.
29:53
Speaker 3: Past and others.
29:55
Speaker 2: That's not my understanding, nor Andrew Clanel's of the labor rules.
29:59
Speaker 3: What's your understanding?
30:02
Speaker 13: Well, in the first instance, what Senator Payment did today
30:06
Speaker 13: was a clear challenge to Prime Minister Alberanese's leadership. He
30:09
Speaker 13: is the first Labor Prime Minister since nineteen eighty six
30:13
Speaker 13: to have a senator do this to him.
30:16
Speaker 3: But Peter, you've got to look at.
30:17
Speaker 13: Why Senator Payment did this, and it is the weak
30:21
Speaker 13: leadership that Anthony Albernizi has shown since the terrorist attacks
30:26
Speaker 13: on October the seventh last year. It is little wonder
30:30
Speaker 13: that Senator Payment thought she had license to cross the floor.
30:34
Speaker 13: But I have to say I've spoken to a number
30:36
Speaker 13: of Labour senators tonight. Well I can tell you they
30:38
Speaker 13: are all over the place. You have some Labor senators
30:41
Speaker 13: who say I'd like to cross the floor on certain issues.
30:44
Speaker 13: But I know I'm not allowed to, so she should
30:47
Speaker 13: be expelled. Others who say she should be suspended ultimately
30:51
Speaker 13: a decision for Anthony Alberesi. But without a doubt, what
30:55
Speaker 13: Senator payment did is a direct result of Anthony now
30:58
Speaker 13: Albernese's weak life leadership when it comes to what occurred
31:03
Speaker 13: the terrible massacre on October the seventh last year.
31:09
Speaker 2: I'll be blunt, Senator. If she was a labor bloke,
31:11
Speaker 2: would should be expelled. And is she not being expelled
31:14
Speaker 2: because she's a female Muslim Senator?
31:18
Speaker 13: Well again, I will leave that to Anthony Alberanzi. But
31:21
Speaker 13: let's go to what the core issue is why, And
31:24
Speaker 13: it is a complete failure, a weakness on behalf of
31:28
Speaker 13: mister Alberanesi to show true leadership when it comes to
31:33
Speaker 13: the terrible events of October the seventh last year. But
31:36
Speaker 13: let's face it, I'm sure his phone is going hot tonight.
31:40
Speaker 13: Those who are saying she should be expelled, those who
31:43
Speaker 13: are saying she should merely be suspended. But ultimately it
31:47
Speaker 13: is a decision for the Australian Labor Party. But for me, Peter,
31:50
Speaker 13: it's the core of the issue and that is weak
31:53
Speaker 13: leadership under Prime Minister Alberanesi.
31:58
Speaker 2: What's the odds when and if if Julian Nassange returns
32:01
Speaker 2: to Australia that he'll be lionized by the ABC.
32:05
Speaker 3: Where do you stand on this ship?
32:07
Speaker 13: Well, let us be very clear. I do not condone
32:10
Speaker 13: what Julian Assange did. He is not a hero, He
32:14
Speaker 13: is not a journalist, he is not a whistleblower. He
32:17
Speaker 13: is someone who by his very actions put the lives
32:21
Speaker 13: of Australians in danger. So, quite frankly, to see elements
32:26
Speaker 13: of the press lord him as a hero, as a journalist,
32:30
Speaker 13: as a whistleblower, I find incredibly disappointing because his conduct,
32:35
Speaker 13: as I said, it put Australian lives in danger, and
32:40
Speaker 13: as far as I'm concerned, that is unacceptable.
32:45
Speaker 3: I'm with you on that, Senator Cash, thank you for
32:47
Speaker 3: your time.
32:48
Speaker 2: All Right after the break, despite there being no safe
32:50
Speaker 2: level of illicit drug consumption, we've got yet another labor
32:54
Speaker 2: government pursuing the naive approach.
32:57
Speaker 3: Paid by taxpayers of pill testing.
33:00
Speaker 2: The worrying changes being considered that could impact rape trials
33:03
Speaker 2: and upend centuries of jurisprudence. Welcoback still to come The
33:12
Speaker 2: strange rules have been imposed on the first US presidential
33:16
Speaker 2: debate as speculation mounts whether or not Biden will still
33:19
Speaker 2: be the candidate come November. But First Victorian premiere just
33:23
Speaker 2: Into Allen took to social media with a major announcement
33:27
Speaker 2: on drug testing.
33:30
Speaker 14: Their kids get handed a pill at a festival, they
33:33
Speaker 14: want a medical professional who can tell them exactly what
33:36
Speaker 14: it is and exactly what it does without telling them
33:40
Speaker 14: it's safe, honest, open health focused conversations. That's how we
33:46
Speaker 14: change young people's behavior and even reduce drug use. And
33:50
Speaker 14: that's all pill testing is about. This is a simple
33:53
Speaker 14: and common sense way to save lives.
33:58
Speaker 2: In the usual spin and lie from labor. She also
34:01
Speaker 2: insisted that policy doesn't make drugs legal, It just provides
34:04
Speaker 2: information to give users the choices whether or not to
34:08
Speaker 2: ingest an illegal substance. But the end result is that
34:11
Speaker 2: Victoria now joins Queensland and the Act to allow drug testing,
34:16
Speaker 2: much to the delight I'm sure of the dealers and
34:19
Speaker 2: the crime gangs who manufacture it all From where I'm
34:22
Speaker 2: joined now by Crime editor for the Daily Telegraph, Mark Moray. Mark,
34:26
Speaker 2: thank you for your time.
34:28
Speaker 3: I mean, there is.
34:29
Speaker 2: No safe level of illegal drug consumption and pretending somehow
34:34
Speaker 2: that testing you know, a couple of tablets at a
34:37
Speaker 2: festival and you'll never test every tablet that's anywhere near
34:41
Speaker 2: these festivals is absolute nonsense. What do you make of
34:45
Speaker 2: this announcement overnight in Victoria?
34:48
Speaker 6: I think a few of our drug dealers here will
34:50
Speaker 6: be thinking it's terrific. Again, there's so many fallacies around
34:54
Speaker 6: drug testing. One they can't get anywhere near testing all
34:58
Speaker 6: the ingredients, and the other thing, I've covered so many
35:02
Speaker 6: debts and I can't tell you how many festival debts,
35:05
Speaker 6: and all of them are nearly what we call poly use.
35:07
Speaker 6: It's not taking one tablet. Most of them have taken
35:10
Speaker 6: multiple tablets. And in fact, this harm minimalization is ridiculous.
35:14
Speaker 6: Fiel testings harm escalation because what it'll say is, but gee,
35:18
Speaker 6: I think that batch is okay, and you'll get these
35:20
Speaker 6: young people who will take a lot more than one.
35:23
Speaker 6: And as I said, nearly every single death is always
35:26
Speaker 6: put down to more than one and using added drugs
35:30
Speaker 6: as well, cocaine, mixing it with alcohol. It's just a
35:34
Speaker 6: fallacy that it's a minimalization.
35:38
Speaker 2: What I want to understand is that she's not doing
35:40
Speaker 2: this until the end of the year when that the
35:42
Speaker 2: festival season comes around again. We know these festivals are
35:45
Speaker 2: not about music, they're about drug taking. Why on earth
35:48
Speaker 2: are taxpayers and why on earth is government facilitating these
35:52
Speaker 2: people to turn up these festivals to get as much
35:55
Speaker 2: drugs as they want. The dealers they make money, The
35:58
Speaker 2: festival organizers they make millions off these kids.
36:01
Speaker 3: Why are we facilitating this?
36:03
Speaker 2: Because it's gangsters and badged biking gangs behind all.
36:08
Speaker 3: Of this too.
36:09
Speaker 12: It is and international cartel.
36:11
Speaker 6: So you know, the money is all of this stuff
36:13
Speaker 6: mainly coming in from overseas, and you're right, our guys
36:16
Speaker 6: are making millions of dollars here.
36:18
Speaker 12: It leads to incredible violence on the streets.
36:20
Speaker 6: These guys start shooting each other to try and make
36:23
Speaker 6: sure that they can get part of the market. And
36:26
Speaker 6: we've seen here in Sydney, particularly in the last two years,
36:29
Speaker 6: we've seen innocent people who have been killed or actually
36:32
Speaker 6: shot as collateral damage in drug wars. Because it is
36:37
Speaker 6: so profitable and because you now have now two three
36:41
Speaker 6: states saying drug dealing's okay, so straight away these guys
36:45
Speaker 6: are starting to amp up their importations. You know, they've
36:49
Speaker 6: seen the market just grow and grow. You're right, the
36:52
Speaker 6: taxpayers are footing the bill, not just.
36:54
Speaker 12: With the testing, which is useless.
36:57
Speaker 6: But with the fact that we're now going to have
36:59
Speaker 6: law and for are going to be put at risk
37:01
Speaker 6: law enforcement. I've got more work to do, and also
37:04
Speaker 6: the health problems that we're getting. The mental health problem
37:07
Speaker 6: in this country is astronomical, and a lot of it
37:10
Speaker 6: can be put down to drugs, a lot of it,
37:13
Speaker 6: if not a massive percentage.
37:17
Speaker 2: I've sent analysis from healthcare professionals and even with a
37:20
Speaker 2: full team of experts at a festival, they'd be lucky
37:23
Speaker 2: to be able to test fifty pills. Now you think
37:26
Speaker 2: these festivals might have fifty thousand people. I don't know
37:28
Speaker 2: the volume of drugs that go in there, but that's
37:31
Speaker 2: just typic the iceberg stuff, and so kids could turn
37:34
Speaker 2: up thinking that what they're buying, you knowing that with
37:37
Speaker 2: some boso there that says, don't worry, this has been
37:39
Speaker 2: tested just over there in that van it's safe.
37:42
Speaker 3: That's where it's risky as well.
37:44
Speaker 12: That's right.
37:45
Speaker 6: These young people, they're risk take and as you said,
37:48
Speaker 6: you know, I think a lot of these people will
37:52
Speaker 6: hold up the first testing twenty eighteen the Group festival,
37:56
Speaker 6: how successful pill testing was. There are over ten thousand
37:59
Speaker 6: people there and about eighty people gave their pills.
38:03
Speaker 12: And the other thing is what a lot of people
38:05
Speaker 12: don't know. I've talked to a lot of young people.
38:07
Speaker 6: They didn't realize when you give the pill, they don't
38:09
Speaker 6: give it back to you. They don't take a little
38:11
Speaker 6: scraping and go, oh yeah, that's okay, go and take
38:14
Speaker 6: your pill. When you tell them that, they go, I'm
38:16
Speaker 6: not going to do that. I've paid good money for that.
38:19
Speaker 6: So there's the amount of.
38:21
Speaker 12: Propaganda going around is astronomical.
38:24
Speaker 6: You google pros and cons of pill testing, you only
38:27
Speaker 6: will be flooded the props flooded with it. Hardly anyone
38:31
Speaker 6: is making a sensible argument to say we've got to
38:35
Speaker 6: move away from giving the green light and educating about
38:38
Speaker 6: the dangers and before they get to the festival and
38:42
Speaker 6: start taking drugs.
38:45
Speaker 3: You know wrong.
38:46
Speaker 2: This is about deals with the Greens in Victoria. The
38:48
Speaker 2: only safe level of consumption of illegal drugs is absolutely none.
38:53
Speaker 2: Mark Murray, thank you, all right. The Australian Law Reform Commission,
38:57
Speaker 2: we'll move to this now, is revealed. It's review of
39:00
Speaker 2: the nation's sexual assault laws will examine every issue they
39:03
Speaker 2: say which emerged during the Britney Higgins Bruce Luhrman saga
39:07
Speaker 2: during a University of Melbourne webinar the Australian Law Reform
39:10
Speaker 2: Commission president. So the inquiry won't specifically refer to the
39:15
Speaker 2: aborted trial and defamation case, but it will deal with
39:19
Speaker 2: every issue that arises out of that particular example. That's
39:24
Speaker 2: Mordy Bromberg, the president there. To date, there's been talk
39:28
Speaker 2: about changing laws in relation to rape to make it
39:31
Speaker 2: fit a civil burden of proof, but if rapes to
39:34
Speaker 2: remain a crime, then it must remain a crime, then
39:38
Speaker 2: that's got to be the criminal burden of proof. In
39:40
Speaker 2: my view, Yes, it makes it harder to secure a conviction,
39:44
Speaker 2: but it's a grave charge so it should have a
39:47
Speaker 2: robust test. Joining me now to discuss this, the Australian's
39:51
Speaker 2: Legal Affairs contributor Chris Merritt, Well, Chris, what do you
39:56
Speaker 2: make of the news that this review will go down
39:58
Speaker 2: the path of looking at the Ian's Lherman's saga, Because
40:02
Speaker 2: what worries me here is, yes, we want rights for victims,
40:08
Speaker 2: but we absolutely want to protect the.
40:10
Speaker 3: Rights of the accused.
40:11
Speaker 2: That's been a hallmark of our justice system for centuries,
40:15
Speaker 2: and this is upending everything if they go down this path,
40:18
Speaker 2: isn't it.
40:19
Speaker 15: Yes, You're right, absolutely right. The whole debate seems to
40:23
Speaker 15: have been completely misconstrued. This is not an issue between
40:28
Speaker 15: two individuals. Rape is one of the most horrendous crimes
40:32
Speaker 15: on the statute books, and it needs to be treated
40:34
Speaker 15: as such. To treat it as a dispute between two
40:39
Speaker 15: individuals is to downgrade it into something like trespass, like
40:44
Speaker 15: a farmer's dispute with his neighbor over whether he's cattle
40:48
Speaker 15: have grazed on the wrong paddock. I mean, it's absolutely
40:51
Speaker 15: ridiculous that there are issues that emerge from the Lherman
40:56
Speaker 15: Higgins case, and chief of money them, I would say,
41:01
Speaker 15: is the oversight and accountability of prosecutors. Now that's spelled
41:06
Speaker 15: out in the terms of reference that the lawa firm
41:08
Speaker 15: commission will look at, and I certainly hope they pursue
41:13
Speaker 15: that because there are problems here, and the problem that
41:18
Speaker 15: seems to be motivating the Attorney General mister Dreyfus is
41:24
Speaker 15: one the apparently low success rates conviction rates in rape cases,
41:30
Speaker 15: and two the trauma experienced by women. Now, five judges
41:35
Speaker 15: in New South Wales have complained about the way prosecutors
41:39
Speaker 15: in that state have been running hopeless cases. Now, one
41:43
Speaker 15: way to ensure that you get very low success rates
41:46
Speaker 15: conviction rates is to run hopeless cases. The judiciary will
41:50
Speaker 15: simply throw them out. So I think if this inquiry
41:54
Speaker 15: has fared income, it will look seriously at the way
41:58
Speaker 15: prosecutors are making those decisions to ensure that the cases
42:02
Speaker 15: that do come before courts are serious matters and those
42:07
Speaker 15: that are likely to result in a conviction. Now on trauma,
42:12
Speaker 15: there are lessons from the Higgins case as well. If
42:17
Speaker 15: the object of the exercise is to reduce the trauma
42:21
Speaker 15: on women appearing as witnesses in these cases, we already
42:26
Speaker 15: have plenty of systems in place, but most of them
42:28
Speaker 15: weren't used in the Luhrmann Higgins criminal trial. There was
42:34
Speaker 15: no real need for miss Higgins, for example, to appear
42:37
Speaker 15: in person. She could have given her testimony remotely by
42:41
Speaker 15: video link. Her identity may have been suppressed, So there
42:45
Speaker 15: are mechanisms here, and I think the lesson from the
42:50
Speaker 15: Higgins case we need to be very careful that we
42:53
Speaker 15: don't learn the wrong lesson. There's nothing wrong with the
42:57
Speaker 15: criminal standard of proof. It's high and it needs to
43:02
Speaker 15: be high. That's in the interests of the entire community,
43:05
Speaker 15: particularly women. Women who complain about sexual assaults and see
43:11
Speaker 15: someone convicted have been vindicated before the entire nation that
43:16
Speaker 15: beyond reasonable doubt what they said was true. If you
43:20
Speaker 15: lower that to the civil standard, there will be doubts,
43:24
Speaker 15: and we've seen that in the avalanche of collateral civil
43:29
Speaker 15: litigation that has been spawned by the failure of the
43:33
Speaker 15: criminal prosecution of mister Lhrman and the Act. So there
43:38
Speaker 15: are pros and cons in this inquiry, but I certainly
43:41
Speaker 15: hope they don't learn the wrong lessons.
43:46
Speaker 2: Spot on, Chris, and I have to say, you know,
43:48
Speaker 2: if you're found guilty of rape at a criminal standard,
43:52
Speaker 2: it means jail. Anything less than jail for rape. It
43:56
Speaker 2: does a greater service to women. And that's where we'll
43:58
Speaker 2: lend up if we go down the civil path. Thank
44:00
Speaker 2: you as always, catch up soon, all right after the break,
44:03
Speaker 2: what we can expect on Friday when Joe Biden and
44:06
Speaker 2: Donald Trump go head to head. The rules are fascical,
44:11
Speaker 2: but can Biden even get through a full debate?
44:15
Speaker 3: Just how bad. Could the betting scandal in the UK
44:18
Speaker 3: get for the Tories? I mean, the.
44:19
Speaker 2: Whole campaign is imploding. It's taking out a lot of
44:24
Speaker 2: the campaign team. We'll get to that one after the break.
44:31
Speaker 3: Welcome back.
44:32
Speaker 2: Lots of international issues, let's get into them. Sky News
44:34
Speaker 2: contributor Kosher Garda joins me and former Labor MP Michael Danby. Well,
44:39
Speaker 2: of course, we've got this big presidential debate, the first
44:42
Speaker 2: to the twenty twenty four campaign, kicking off here at
44:45
Speaker 2: eleven o'clock on Friday on Sky News. Joe Biden Donald
44:48
Speaker 2: Trump face off.
44:50
Speaker 3: But it's not like any other debate we've seen.
44:52
Speaker 2: This one is hosted by CNN, but the rules are
44:56
Speaker 2: very different. There'll be absolutely no questions, there won't be
44:59
Speaker 2: a live audience at Each candidate will have their microphone
45:04
Speaker 2: muted when the other band's speaking, so that we know interjections.
45:08
Speaker 3: Now, this is very staged.
45:10
Speaker 2: Kosher, I suspect it's to aid President Biden.
45:14
Speaker 3: What were you looking for on Friday?
45:17
Speaker 16: Great to be with Dpeter, You know, I would say
45:19
Speaker 16: not much. And the reason I say that is just
45:22
Speaker 16: to put it in context. Debates really don't matter as
45:24
Speaker 16: much as.
45:25
Speaker 10: They used to.
45:26
Speaker 16: We've talked about this before that the US elections are
45:28
Speaker 16: much more about the mechanics and being able to get
45:30
Speaker 16: turnout of five, ten, fifteen thousand people in these swing
45:34
Speaker 16: counties of swing states.
45:35
Speaker 10: That's what this selection is going to be one or
45:37
Speaker 10: lost on, and not.
45:38
Speaker 16: So much the issues that will be debated or the
45:40
Speaker 16: charisma of the candidates are lack thereof.
45:43
Speaker 10: That said, maybe it will have a little bit of
45:45
Speaker 10: an impact on the margins. The thing here, though, is.
45:48
Speaker 16: That both of these men are very very well known,
45:50
Speaker 16: very famous, most famous men in the world. Probably they've
45:53
Speaker 16: both been president, and so they're known entities. And what
45:56
Speaker 16: I would be looking for is some kind of July surprize.
45:59
Speaker 16: Is there some big revelation or some big gaff that
46:02
Speaker 16: Joe Biden meets such as he has in other world stages,
46:05
Speaker 16: that just becomes the headline news. The last one really quickly,
46:08
Speaker 16: I would add, is leaving the debate. Aside as a
46:11
Speaker 16: media person, I think just from a media perspective, it's
46:14
Speaker 16: going to be very fascinating, probably one of the most
46:17
Speaker 16: large largest audiences for any televised event in history. Something
46:21
Speaker 16: like two hundred million Americas are going to tune in there's.
46:24
Speaker 10: Going to be ads.
46:25
Speaker 16: It's just the ecosystem around that. It is going to
46:27
Speaker 16: be interesting to watch, just as a television.
46:28
Speaker 2: Event, Michael was interesting. Last week President Biden was at
46:35
Speaker 2: an event. He literally lost his way coming off the stage.
46:38
Speaker 2: President Obama was there, had to guide him off the stage,
46:41
Speaker 2: and then there was a series of articles about Chuck Schumer,
46:46
Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi, Obama and others caucusing about removing him. Say
46:50
Speaker 2: that the time has came went to move him on
46:54
Speaker 2: as the Democratic candidate. Now we've got the convention coming up.
46:58
Speaker 2: That's about the only point we're now in November where
47:01
Speaker 2: you could move the president on.
47:03
Speaker 3: Do you think that's likely to happen?
47:06
Speaker 8: Well, I don't agree with Koha that these debates, particularly
47:10
Speaker 8: this one, are not going to be crucial. This one
47:13
Speaker 8: is being held very early, and as you correctly point out, Peter,
47:17
Speaker 8: it's been held before the Democratic convention. So if there's
47:21
Speaker 8: a major stuff up by Biden, as you've mentioned with
47:24
Speaker 8: the terrible scenes in Los Angeles or the Normandy memorial,
47:32
Speaker 8: they could easily get the big stick and pull in
47:35
Speaker 8: by the neck off stage. So I think the governor
47:38
Speaker 8: of California will be the candidate against Trump. I cannot
47:42
Speaker 8: believe that a man in age circumstances as poor old
47:48
Speaker 8: Joe will contest against Trump. All Trump has to do
47:53
Speaker 8: is to maintain some equilibrium and dignity. The main thing
47:57
Speaker 8: about this debate, Peter, is that it's ninety minutes. Have
48:01
Speaker 8: you ever seen President Biden stand in the last four
48:04
Speaker 8: years for ninety minutes in one place and face consistent question.
48:09
Speaker 8: It's going to be terribly difficult for a man. It's
48:12
Speaker 8: not a matter of age, but there are some people
48:14
Speaker 8: of that age who are just simply not up to it,
48:17
Speaker 8: and it's cruel to him.
48:21
Speaker 2: This Tory election betting scandal is huge in the UK.
48:25
Speaker 2: It's getting worse. It's ripping all the way through the
48:29
Speaker 2: campaign team now Kosher. It's about people on the inside,
48:34
Speaker 2: in the know who put bets on. This is the
48:37
Speaker 2: allegation who put bets on to say they knew the
48:39
Speaker 2: date of the election, and of course there was a
48:41
Speaker 2: big spike in Bigg's placed.
48:45
Speaker 11: This talk.
48:45
Speaker 2: It could go as far as front bench ministers. This
48:49
Speaker 2: has been a shocker of our campaign. But this is
48:51
Speaker 2: about as worse as it gets.
48:52
Speaker 10: I reckon, yeah, talk about an unforced error.
48:55
Speaker 16: They've already been spiraling downwards, the Tories, as we know,
49:00
Speaker 16: coming off the high that they've had in eighty years
49:02
Speaker 16: and twenty nineteen and squandered that. And this is the
49:04
Speaker 16: last thing that they needed to do, and they've basically
49:07
Speaker 16: handed a cudgel to both Labor as well as people
49:10
Speaker 16: like the Reform Party and Nigel Frage all have been
49:13
Speaker 16: mocking them or making fun of them.
49:14
Speaker 10: Or even raising more serious allegations about what this means.
49:18
Speaker 10: Unclear to me how much cut through it'll.
49:20
Speaker 16: Get to the electorate given the era that they're living
49:23
Speaker 16: in with mass immigration and cost of living crises and
49:25
Speaker 16: all of that, except that it does underscore this broader
49:29
Speaker 16: distrust and disgust even I think that people increasingly have
49:32
Speaker 16: with elected leaders and the Tories in particular in this case,
49:35
Speaker 16: that it sort of smacks rules of thee and not
49:37
Speaker 16: for me, and they're not taking their countrymen's plated seriously
49:41
Speaker 16: and instead are engaging and trying to make a buck
49:43
Speaker 16: off inside information.
49:45
Speaker 2: In this case, Hey, Michael, I'm just going to jump
49:48
Speaker 2: in there if I can just quickly kind of a
49:51
Speaker 2: payment across the floor. Just a few hours ago in
49:54
Speaker 2: the Senate, the Labor party has put a statement out
49:57
Speaker 2: from a spokesman saying that there is no mandate sanction
50:01
Speaker 2: in these circumstances. It doesn't look like they're going to
50:04
Speaker 2: expel her. Now, my understanding of Labor Party rules is
50:08
Speaker 2: she should be expelled for crossing the floor. This was
50:10
Speaker 2: a Green's motion, of course, what can you tell us?
50:14
Speaker 8: Well, as you pointed out, she's young, a woman, and Muslim,
50:17
Speaker 8: and they won't act because it's not in Elbow's DNA.
50:24
Speaker 8: She may get suspended. But I want to go to
50:26
Speaker 8: the ethics of this. How can a young Afghan woman
50:31
Speaker 8: whose family has fled from the Taliban in Afghanistan effectively
50:36
Speaker 8: support the same kind of regime in Gaza, regime that murdered, raped,
50:43
Speaker 8: kidnapped and tortured hundreds of Israelis. I mean, fatom of payment.
50:48
Speaker 8: Let's look at the issues. It's unethical.
50:53
Speaker 2: I'm with you, Michael, but we're out of time. Thank
50:55
Speaker 2: you for that, all right up next to the Bolt Report,