Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Forget Blackrock: NEW multi trillion dollar bank just went all in!! | EP 1412

Transcript

Forget Blackrock: NEW multi trillion dollar bank just went all in!! | EP 1412 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  While everyone is convinced the big money is suppressing
• 0:03
  Bitcoin's price, the opposite is quietly happening.
• 0:07
  They're going all in. Bitcoin ETF just saw record
• 0:11
  inflows to start the year and are on track to beat last year's
• 0:15
  $22 billion. And now we have the $1.7
• 0:19
  trillion giant Morgan Stanley officially rolling out, or
• 0:24
  rather filing to roll out a spot Bitcoin ETF.
• 0:27
  Though this ETF is a little different than all the other
• 0:30
  ones we've seen the the big theme take away is Wall Street
• 0:35
  is here and they're coming for your Bitcoin in 2026 so buckle
• 0:39
  up guys. It's going to be an interesting
• 0:41
  year like I was saying yesterday anyways, I am not alone today I
• 0:46
  do have our boy Kent Halliburton from SAS mining.
• 0:50
  Oops wrong one. Yeah.
• 0:52
  Do you guys know Nico? Sophie's about to have a have a
• 0:54
  child. So it might be you guys got some
• 0:57
  bullishness with me all all week 'cause Anika's gonna be out.
• 0:59
  Anyways, let's start with the first point.
• 1:02
  This is obviously kind of an interesting trend.
• 1:06
  I have been saying, look, since the institutions are here, one
• 1:10
  of the avenues, one of the the indicators, if you can call
• 1:14
  that, that we should be watching is the ETF inflows.
• 1:18
  And we've started 2026 with a bang.
• 1:21
  So the first point here is the Bitcoin ETFs have brought in
• 1:25
  $197 million of Bitcoin yesterday alone, the largest
• 1:31
  single day inflow since October. Remember what happened in
• 1:35
  October? October 10th is when we got that
• 1:37
  really big drop down, the big decline where everyone was
• 1:40
  freaking out. We all were kind of on the fence
• 1:43
  of whether we were in a bear market or not.
• 1:45
  Well, today the price you know is is hitting this 94 K range.
• 1:50
  But it looks like those people that are buying through the
• 1:54
  ETF's are starting to feel extremely bullish, which really
• 1:58
  goes into the larger trend of there's not that much Bitcoin to
• 2:03
  go around. And I'm glad I have Kent with me
• 2:05
  today because we're going to be breaking that down in a little
• 2:08
  bit. Now, the second point here is
• 2:10
  Eric Balkunis, of course, Bloomberg senior, I believe it's
• 2:13
  ETF analyst or senior. Yeah, senior ETF analyst.
• 2:17
  I always forget that he goes the spot.
• 2:19
  Bitcoin ETFs are coming into 2026 like a lion.
• 2:22
  Plus one point, $2.00 in flows in first two days of the year
• 2:26
  with everyone eating, that's $115 billion a year pace.
• 2:33
  I told y'all, if they can take 22 billion when it's raining,
• 2:36
  imagine when the sun is shining. So first point here guys, it
• 2:42
  seems like the, you know bull market exuberance is kind of
• 2:45
  coming back in. Obviously we are not out of the
• 2:48
  woods here, but the first point is watching the ETF inflows, it
• 2:53
  is getting very interesting just to start off the year.
• 2:56
  Now, of course, what we saw in the first week of this year
• 2:59
  doesn't necessarily mean that's what we're going to see
• 3:01
  throughout the whole, the whole rest of the year, but it is a
• 3:03
  good start. Now, Kent, I know you're on the
• 3:07
  mining side, so maybe the ETFs aren't the most important thing
• 3:11
  or rather maybe not something that you really keep too much of
• 3:14
  an eye on. But it's obviously, I think
• 3:17
  telling us a greater trend of what's going on.
• 3:20
  For better or worse, the institutions are here and they
• 3:23
  want your Bitcoin. Now, obviously, I think you and
• 3:26
  I have a few of our own personal views of what people should be
• 3:30
  doing. And you know what, we'll
• 3:32
  probably chat about that in a minute.
• 3:34
  But 2025, at this point, I'm convinced it changed everything.
• 3:38
  The institutions are here and I think they were just dipping
• 3:42
  their toes in 20252026 seems to be the year that they're going
• 3:46
  to really in fact, go all in. So can't before I get into the
• 3:50
  big news story, what's your your thoughts on the ETF inflows and
• 3:53
  the fact that it's coming back on the table?
• 3:55
  Well, I so you're right, I don't pay much attention to it because
• 3:58
  when you're sourcing energy and keeping hardware running, it's a
• 4:01
  very different game than you know, paper Bitcoin.
• 4:04
  However, that said, supply demand does impact my business.
• 4:08
  So keep a loose eye on it and especially at least once a month
• 4:10
  when I come on with you guys, I get to check it out.
• 4:12
  But the, the, the inflows, I think Opti, I was on almost
• 4:17
  exactly a month ago. I looked it up before jumping on
• 4:19
  here December 2nd. That was my first time ever
• 4:22
  giving a public declaration that the bottom is in 30 days later.
• 4:26
  That still stands. So I think that what we're
• 4:28
  seeing here and, and I'm not saying the bottom, you know, I'm
• 4:31
  going to be right all time here, but I, I do love what I'm seeing
• 4:35
  and it feels like 2025 for me. Actually, I've categorized it in
• 4:39
  my head as a bear market, just straight up.
• 4:42
  And the reason why is because I price it in gold, you know, it's
• 4:45
  just too much fun business with me.
• 4:47
  For me with the dollar. Gold is a much more stable asset
• 4:51
  to measure bitcoin's price against.
• 4:53
  And Bitcoin was clearly in a bear market all of 2025.
• 4:56
  In fact, there's a bunch of like bear market bottom indicators
• 4:59
  that have gone off in the last couple weeks.
• 5:01
  So if you look at it from that standpoint, clearly the four
• 5:03
  year cycle's dead. And what we're seeing is an
• 5:06
  influx of capital from institutions.
• 5:08
  You know, I, I believe it was 2026 when the new rules,
• 5:12
  accounting rules go into play that Michael Saylor helped to
• 5:16
  put into a place where you can mark to market more frequently
• 5:20
  to take advantage of the price appreciation.
• 5:22
  So it makes sense to me that like businesses would be pouring
• 5:24
  capital in, institutions would be pouring capital in.
• 5:27
  So my thesis continues to be, look, the the beach fall has
• 5:31
  been buried underwater. We've based for an entire year.
• 5:34
  When you price it in, in Bitcoin basically went sideways got very
• 5:38
  close to the open and close price at the end of the year
• 5:41
  from the beginning of 2025 till the end of 2025.
• 5:44
  And if you price it in gold, clearly it down here.
• 5:48
  So everything is lining up for this like just crazy situation.
• 5:52
  And I, I said this to some of my buddies over Christmas vacation,
• 5:56
  but you look at 2025 and what I thought was possible in 2025,
• 6:00
  that bar has actually been set higher for me in my mind because
• 6:04
  of that sideways motion of the Bitcoin price action.
• 6:08
  I think we just have a massive base and it's possible that we
• 6:11
  break up to heights that we didn't even really think we're
• 6:14
  all that possible last year. So yeah, I'm wildly bullish this
• 6:17
  year. And call me delusional, but I'll
• 6:19
  I'll take it. Well, I think everyone knows I,
• 6:24
  I'm delusionally optimistic and bullish every single day, even
• 6:28
  in the face of the data. I'm like, Nah, dude, don't,
• 6:31
  don't trust the charts. And well, like I, I know what's
• 6:33
  happening. I'm usually trolling when I say
• 6:36
  that, But anyways, I mean, look, can't at this point, as I was
• 6:40
  saying yesterday, we, we can start taking our, our, you know,
• 6:43
  warm up victory lap because we've been right.
• 6:45
  And as I joke with you in the morning before the show, I'm
• 6:47
  like, look, hey, we've been right for 30 days.
• 6:50
  But like I, I'm OK if I'm right for 30 minutes.
• 6:52
  So, you know, we'll take the WS when we get them.
• 6:55
  But anyways, no one wants to hear us brag about stuff.
• 6:58
  They want to hear about the big news story here.
• 7:00
  And it's of course, Morgan Stanley seeks SEC approval for a
• 7:03
  spot Bitcoin E ETF. Now, I know last year we talked
• 7:07
  about the ETFs a lot. It was kind of the big
• 7:10
  conversation for the first part of the year.
• 7:13
  It was like all the rage. Then kind of the Bitcoin
• 7:15
  treasury meme kind of came up and that's what everyone was
• 7:18
  talking about. Now, this might not seem like a
• 7:21
  significant move considering all of last year we talked about the
• 7:25
  Bitcoin ETFs, but it is kind of showing you a couple of trends.
• 7:29
  One, of course, institutions are starting to make moves into
• 7:33
  Bitcoin, which is what we started to see happen at the end
• 7:37
  of last year. And then the second one is that
• 7:40
  this ETF is slightly different. And I think this is where the
• 7:45
  competition starts to come in. So let me kind of break this
• 7:48
  down. Morgan Stanley, of course, filed
• 7:51
  with the US regulators to launch a spot Bitcoin ETF, marking the
• 7:54
  first time a major U U.S. bank has sought approval to issue an
• 7:58
  ETF tied directly to the price of Bitcoin.
• 8:02
  You heard it here. It's the first time now.
• 8:04
  If approved, the fund would hold Bitcoin directly rather than
• 8:07
  relying on futures, derivatives or leverage, according to the
• 8:11
  registration statement. And then Morgan Stanley's entry
• 8:14
  signals a shift by large banks from distributing third party
• 8:18
  crypto products towards issuing their own.
• 8:21
  And again, going further, the proposed Bitcoin Trust would be
• 8:24
  sponsored by Morgan Stanley Investment Management.
• 8:27
  Shares would be created and redeemed in large blocks by
• 8:30
  authorized participants, either in cash or in kind, which is a
• 8:35
  huge shift. Now that the income redemptions
• 8:38
  aren't possible, it seems like they're just going to go
• 8:41
  straight there. They're going to ignore all of
• 8:43
  the other BS. So on some level, I think this
• 8:47
  this is a significant difference based on the other ETFs.
• 8:50
  Now, by offering a proprietary Bitcoin ETF, the firm can
• 8:54
  integrate the product directly into client portfolios and
• 8:57
  retain management fees that might otherwise go to rival
• 8:59
  issuers. So you can see they are starting
• 9:02
  to see at least on on one hand, just Morgan Stanley or maybe as
• 9:06
  one example, they're starting to see that yeah, there is a lot to
• 9:11
  gain from getting into the Bitcoin ETF.
• 9:13
  And remember last year, the big saga about Vanguard, they're
• 9:17
  finally kind of bending the name Morgan Stanley, which I do have
• 9:20
  a little story with one of my friends.
• 9:22
  I brought it up before, but I'll get to that later.
• 9:24
  And then just to kind of highlight the significance of
• 9:27
  the fact that it's under Morgan Stanley, you know, the company
• 9:30
  and they're putting their, their stamp of approval on this ETF.
• 9:33
  Morgan Stanley manages 20 ETFs, but mostly under the Calvert
• 9:38
  Parametric, Eaton Vance brands. These will be the 3rd and 4th
• 9:42
  ETFs to bear the quote. Morgan Stanley.
• 9:46
  Pretty remarkable. Which is kind of one of the the
• 9:50
  smaller themes I've been covering on the show, that as
• 9:55
  much as Bitcoiners, we may not like the institutions coming in,
• 9:59
  I think they're starting to realize that this isn't
• 10:02
  something they can ignore anymore.
• 10:03
  It's not something that they could just relegate to the
• 10:05
  darkest corners of the Internet. They have to at this point
• 10:09
  essentially put their reputation on the line to back this new
• 10:13
  thing, to back the games that Bitcoin has had.
• 10:16
  Whereas in the past it was very easy to, you know, have your
• 10:21
  your career hurt if you embrace Bitcoin.
• 10:23
  And now it's becoming very clear it's the opposite.
• 10:26
  If you are not embracing Bitcoin, your customers are
• 10:29
  probably looking at you like, yo, what are you doing?
• 10:31
  What am I paying you for? If you're missing out on the
• 10:33
  best performing asset in the last 1517 years, Yeah, you last
• 10:37
  year wasn't the best, but the I I think the trend is is growing
• 10:42
  evermore that they every bank now at this point is probably
• 10:46
  going to have some form of Bitcoin ETM, some form of
• 10:49
  Bitcoin product. And let's not forget JP Morgan
• 10:52
  is out here now doing Bitcoin collateral.
• 10:54
  So the times are very interesting now, as I said, you
• 10:58
  know, I view you should just buy Bitcoin directly, take it into
• 11:01
  cold storage. I've been kind of harping on
• 11:04
  this idea that the biggest attack happening right now is
• 11:06
  most likely coming from Wall Street.
• 11:09
  They want your Bitcoin. So it's up to you to not give
• 11:11
  them your Bitcoin no matter what shiny product they give you.
• 11:15
  That's the game right now in my opinion.
• 11:17
  But anyways, let me let me reel this back, Kent, what do you
• 11:22
  think the significance of Morgan Stanley offering this ETF,
• 11:25
  particularly in the fact that they're not doing futures
• 11:28
  derivatives or leverage ETFs and they are doing right out the
• 11:32
  gate in cash or in kind redemptions, which is a stark
• 11:36
  contrast to all the other ETFs. Though now as you kind of said,
• 11:39
  the regulatory clarity, it's it's a little more open.
• 11:42
  You know that we have a lot better rules now the
• 11:45
  capabilities are there. So I think it's a smart move
• 11:48
  that they just ride out the gate or like, hey, look we're Morgan
• 11:50
  Stanley. We're going to do in kind
• 11:52
  Bitcoin ETFs, we're going to buy spot Bitcoin and further we're
• 11:56
  going to do all this in house and not rely on any of the other
• 11:59
  third party custody. Particularly if you remember JP
• 12:03
  Morgan is the authorized participant of the BlackRock
• 12:06
  ETF. So I think that you can see that
• 12:09
  there is some, I don't know if you want to call it infighting
• 12:12
  or war in factions between these big banks, but they're starting
• 12:16
  to see the game theory and the competition I think is going to
• 12:19
  heat up in 2026. Yeah, man, I, I think Morgan
• 12:24
  Stanley's in it to win it. Here is is what I see it.
• 12:27
  You know, the, the the game theory says you want to have the
• 12:30
  best products so that you can acquire the most amount of
• 12:33
  Bitcoin. And this is just capitalism at
• 12:35
  play. You know, they're coming to
• 12:37
  market saying how do I out compete?
• 12:39
  I'm going to file an ETFI, want to absorb as much Bitcoin as
• 12:42
  possible and I need to differentiate myself.
• 12:45
  And this is clear differentiation.
• 12:46
  I think it's wonderful to see a big bank figure out how to take
• 12:50
  custody of Bitcoin directly instead of outsource that.
• 12:53
  I think that that helps to alleviate some of the risks that
• 12:57
  I see with Coinbase is like a massive honeypot potentially for
• 13:00
  a sovereign entity like the US to come after at some point.
• 13:03
  But the fact that Morgan Stanley is taking that, that step, you
• 13:07
  know, I don't, I don't know about the rest of you guys, but
• 13:10
  when it comes to custody of Bitcoin, you know, I, I don't
• 13:15
  really trust banks with my dollars.
• 13:16
  Why should I trust them with my Bitcoin?
• 13:19
  You know, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
• 13:22
  So I, I'm going to just preach, you know, self custody, hold it,
• 13:26
  figure it out yourself, be a, be an adult and, and, and manage
• 13:29
  private keys. And yes, it's not simple or
• 13:32
  trivial. And yes, there's better UX and
• 13:34
  better products that are coming out to help with that, but I
• 13:37
  think if you're in Bitcoin and not doing self custody, then
• 13:40
  you, you're not part of the intolerant minority that can
• 13:43
  actually help us separate money in states.
• 13:44
  So what are you doing? Get out of Fiat land and come,
• 13:48
  come over to Bitcoin land and participate with the rest of us
• 13:50
  in this movement for freedom here.
• 13:53
  So I, I love what Morgan Stanley's doing the direction.
• 13:56
  I do think it'll differentiate and lead to more Bitcoin
• 13:59
  absorption in their ETF over time, maybe not instantly as
• 14:02
  people realize the differentiation there.
• 14:05
  But I think most importantly is that in kind redemption, because
• 14:08
  I actually think that in kind redemption is ultimately how we
• 14:11
  get away from paper Bitcoin. Because if people can deposit
• 14:15
  Bitcoin and withdraw Bitcoin out of the ETF, that means that it's
• 14:19
  going to be much harder for paper games to be played.
• 14:22
  So I think that's a healthy step forward that they, they're the
• 14:26
  game theory and the competition is driving them in that
• 14:28
  direction. And you know, the big banks that
• 14:31
  they're all out for themselves anyway.
• 14:33
  So they, they might play a monopolistic game when they can.
• 14:37
  But when it comes down to free market competition, which
• 14:40
  Bitcoin represents, it's going to divide the herd.
• 14:44
  And I think that's healthy for all of us to have Wall Street
• 14:46
  kind of playing playing the same game, which is, hey, how do I
• 14:49
  stack as much Bitcoin as I can? Yeah, 100%.
• 14:53
  I mean, every time you know it, it, it is interesting when you
• 14:58
  look at Wall Street obviously from like a Bitcoiners
• 15:01
  perspective and probably from like a Main Street perspective,
• 15:03
  just like an average person perspective.
• 15:06
  There is kind of a, I don't know, like a bad taste in our
• 15:09
  mouths when we talk about Wall Street.
• 15:11
  It's like, oh, Wall Street's a bunch of greedy people, you
• 15:14
  know, capitalism's bad, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
• 15:17
  But when you see stuff like this, it really does remind you
• 15:20
  that when you're in Bitcoin, it's a Mexican standoff.
• 15:23
  Everyone is looking out for themselves.
• 15:25
  And that's what kind of keeps the Bitcoin incentives in line
• 15:28
  because if you do partner with someone, you might get smoked,
• 15:33
  like you might make the wrong move.
• 15:35
  And now everyone's realizing, wait, like my neck is on the
• 15:38
  chopping block here. If I don't make the moves
• 15:40
  correctly, if I don't look out for my own team, if I don't look
• 15:44
  out for myself as an individual, there's a potential to
• 15:47
  literally, you know, get completely wiped out here.
• 15:50
  And I I love that you brought that up because a few people
• 15:54
  understand that, you know, when when you talk about the quote UN
• 15:57
  quote elite, everyone thinks it's like a monolithic,
• 16:00
  everyone's on the same team. They're in like a back, you
• 16:02
  know, coordinating everything. Some of them might be, but when
• 16:06
  you see moves like this, you realize like, Oh no, like
• 16:08
  they're all out for themselves here.
• 16:10
  And this is a benefit to every single one of us.
• 16:13
  So I love that you brought that up.
• 16:15
  Now I, I do want to bring up one kind of story.
• 16:19
  I, I told you guys on the show when I was back home, I was
• 16:22
  talking with one of my friends and I didn't mention the bank he
• 16:24
  was working at, but he was telling me he's like the big
• 16:28
  banks aren't really getting into Bitcoin.
• 16:30
  You know, like, yeah, it's slowly happening, but he's still
• 16:34
  feeding the trad five party line.
• 16:37
  And my other friend, he's not really into Bitcoin yet, but
• 16:39
  he's known I've been into Bitcoin for forever.
• 16:42
  And he was like, yeah, they're kind of getting into Bitcoin.
• 16:46
  Well, now officially, I think I could bring it out.
• 16:48
  He does work at Morgan Stanley. And now I really want to text
• 16:52
  him and be like, yo, so like, what were you saying?
• 16:55
  It's literally been about one week into 2026 and now your
• 16:59
  company's going into Bitcoin. So if, if I text him, I'll I'll
• 17:03
  see if his official narrative has shifted on this because now
• 17:07
  his bosses are saying, hey, you know, we're trying to roll out
• 17:10
  some Bitcoin products. So it's very interesting how
• 17:13
  quickly narratives can shift when the big bosses are like,
• 17:16
  Yep, we're going all in. So I might have some more news
• 17:20
  on that one in a little bit. But anyways, one last thing I
• 17:22
  want to bring up here. And like I said, this is when
• 17:27
  I'm very happy Kent's with me today because this last kind of
• 17:32
  kind of idea, I think really puts everything into perspective
• 17:35
  and where we are in the story and where we can potentially be
• 17:39
  in 2026. So here is I've I've really like
• 17:43
  this guy's account. It's kind of just came up on my
• 17:47
  radar recently, but it's what is it Zen X Zen X Bitcoin love the
• 17:53
  name too anyways, he goes just three companies are eating up
• 17:56
  the entire Bitcoin issuance. If you add the Bitcoin ETS on
• 18:00
  top, you can see that this is not sustainable.
• 18:03
  A reminder, Bitcoin purchases in Q4 strategy bought 32,466
• 18:08
  Bitcoin, Tether bought 8888 Bitcoin, Metaplanet bought 3600
• 18:14
  and 72 for a total of 45,000 and 26 Bitcoin and Bitcoin mined in
• 18:21
  Q4 was roughly 41,260 Bitcoin. The supply is diminishing, yet
• 18:28
  demand is soaring. This only ends one way guys.
• 18:32
  Buckle up, it's going to get crazy out there.
• 18:35
  And this is of course where our reigning in house miner expert
• 18:40
  comes in. I I'd have to go do some quick
• 18:43
  maths and maybe you have it off the top of our head, but I think
• 18:46
  people forget just how little Bitcoin enters the ecosystem per
• 18:50
  year per month. And if these ETFs do start to
• 18:55
  Hoover up $150 billion of Bitcoin metaplanet strategy,
• 19:00
  Tether, even like American Bitcoin mining company, like the
• 19:05
  Bitcoin treasury companies, if they maintain the buying
• 19:08
  pressure that they have been able to in 2025 on top of these
• 19:12
  ETF interests, it's hard to not get bullish.
• 19:16
  And and finally, maybe Ruston will be, you know, vindicated of
• 19:21
  the mother of all supply shocks. Like you said, 2026 might be
• 19:24
  that year. Man, I'd love it to be.
• 19:27
  I, I think there is going to come a point when it's going to
• 19:30
  happen, right? So let me just breakdown some
• 19:32
  numbers because I think people people miss the forest for the
• 19:35
  trees when it comes to mining. It's super simple.
• 19:38
  You get 3.125 new Bitcoin per block coming into the the supply
• 19:43
  side, right? A block happens every 10 minutes
• 19:46
  roughly. That's, you know, there's an
• 19:47
  organic nature to that, but roughly 6 blocks an hour.
• 19:51
  So if you multiply that all out by 24 hours a day, you get 450
• 19:55
  Bitcoin a day. At today's price of Bitcoin
• 19:58
  95,000, that's a little more. It's close to $43 million worth
• 20:03
  of supply has to be taken off every day for more buying than
• 20:08
  selling pressure to occur. That's not much, guys.
• 20:11
  And that's why at some point this is unsustainable.
• 20:14
  At some point it is a situation where the beach ball has been
• 20:17
  buried underwater for too long and it will go floating to the
• 20:20
  surface because just 450 Bitcoin a day, it's not much purchasing
• 20:25
  pressure. So the buyers have to out
• 20:27
  overwhelm the sellers by just 450 Bitcoin a day for us to
• 20:32
  eventually get to a point where the float, you know, the free
• 20:34
  floating liquid supply of Bitcoin out there, which I think
• 20:37
  last I saw was like 2.2 million down from like 2.6 at the start
• 20:41
  of last year. There is a point when there's
• 20:44
  just not enough supply to buy and price has to has to adjust
• 20:48
  the to make up the difference. So let's see if it happens this
• 20:51
  year, there will come a point where it does happen.
• 20:54
  I firmly believe that it is looking pretty doggone exciting
• 20:57
  this year, but I'm not. I made a bottom call last time I
• 21:00
  was on. I'm not making a God candle call
• 21:03
  this time though. Yeah, well, that's my job.
• 21:08
  I haven't called for, I haven't called for a God candle yet, but
• 21:12
  I am starting to get a lot more bullish.
• 21:14
  Obviously today we did get like a little pullback at at a kind
• 21:18
  of known resistance level around that 94 K Obviously the day's
• 21:23
  not over. I I saw some people trolling
• 21:25
  that right when we started the show, the price started dumping
• 21:28
  and we should just get off air because they're totally
• 21:31
  listening to simply Bitcoin to trade right now, which I, which
• 21:35
  I literally was talking about yesterday.
• 21:37
  Bitcoiners and their superstitions are, are
• 21:39
  absolutely amazing. It's one of my favorite things
• 21:42
  to talk about. But yeah, I it's just when you
• 21:45
  look at the math again, the math just doesn't math the amount of
• 21:49
  buying. Now you could argue, as we were
• 21:51
  saying a minute ago, it was paper Bitcoin summer.
• 21:54
  Now there might be a lot of paper Bitcoin in the system
• 21:57
  right now or in the ecosystem and that can potentially, you
• 22:03
  know, exaggerate what is going on.
• 22:05
  But if these ETF, if these institutions, if the Bitcoin
• 22:09
  treasury companies are buying all the Bitcoin they claim to
• 22:12
  buy now that it looks like the sellers from the OGS, from those
• 22:17
  transitioning into ETFs, you know, it seems like the selling
• 22:20
  is finally over. And if that's the case, then we
• 22:23
  all know the beach ball theory. Look, I don't want to get 2
• 22:27
  bullets. I'm not going to call.
• 22:28
  I'm not going to Samson Maui, you guys and say Omega God,
• 22:31
  can't I forget which ones? Which is happening overnight,
• 22:35
  But it is starting to look a little frothy and I have been
• 22:39
  seeing some TA chart boy guys out there like saying the WIC
• 22:42
  off distribution or this other one like Adam and Eve pattern.
• 22:47
  I'm like, I I don't even know what that means.
• 22:48
  I'm I just watched the one minute chart and I'm like, all
• 22:51
  right, we're pumping. This feels good or we're dumping
• 22:54
  this feels bad, but it does. It does seem like 20-25 maybe
• 23:00
  all like you said, all the games we thought we were going to have
• 23:03
  in 2025, they may have been delayed into 2026.
• 23:07
  Now I have seen a bunch of people in the chat say like Q2
• 23:10
  2026 is when we go up boys. They've been saying that for
• 23:13
  like 6 months. So the time hasn't happened yet.
• 23:16
  But I I'm with you, the amount of buying pressure compared to
• 23:21
  the amount of Bitcoin that is going to get released.
• 23:24
  At a certain point, something has to give.
• 23:26
  And we all know when it does give, it's going to go to the
• 23:28
  upside. So keep stacking.
• 23:31
  You are literally getting Bitcoin on discount right now.
• 23:34
  We all know where it's going to go eventually.
• 23:36
  But in the current moment, it is interesting just to see how bad
• 23:39
  sentiment is when you know the the narratives are are really in
• 23:44
  our favor currently. Yes.
• 23:46
  We're not out of the woods yet, but it is starting to get
• 23:49
  bullish. I don't, I know you say you
• 23:51
  don't want to give any price predictions, but could you at
• 23:53
  least tell us if you're continuing to stay bullish or is
• 23:57
  there any concerns? Dude, I've come across as a
• 24:00
  total bear. Have I?
• 24:03
  Of course I'm massively bullish this year.
• 24:06
  I'm actually more. I was bullish going into 2025
• 24:09
  just on the faith of the four year price cycle.
• 24:11
  I'm now bullish going into 2026 based on the actual facts of the
• 24:18
  macro narrative. You know, you've got the change
• 24:20
  in accounting rules, you've got institutions have been more
• 24:23
  warmed up to Bitcoin, you've got the the stability and the price
• 24:27
  action differential between gold and silver and the liquidity
• 24:30
  that's out there. It just feels like the paper
• 24:33
  Bitcoin games cannot go on for much longer.
• 24:35
  And you know, the fact that we haven't talked about that, I've
• 24:37
  seen multiple charts on is, you know, the OG sellers, which is a
• 24:41
  massive narrative last year, are now buyers in the marketplace,
• 24:45
  right? I think that chart is flipped.
• 24:47
  So you just look at all these indicators, it's just like, why
• 24:50
  is anybody surprised that we've come out of the, the, the shoot
• 24:53
  in a strong way this year? And if you look at the price
• 24:55
  action, I mean, guys, we ran from like 88K to 95K in like
• 24:59
  what 2-3 days here. Very bullish looking price
• 25:02
  action to see us pull back to, to retest like 9091 K, that's
• 25:07
  normal. I'm not worried about it.
• 25:10
  Sure, I like the one minute opium charts too, not even opium
• 25:13
  charts, but just adrenaline charts, right?
• 25:15
  It's just like just mainline yourself with some caffeine.
• 25:18
  Why don't you? If you're going to watch those
• 25:19
  charts, it's crazy, but you know, if you like the spikes of
• 25:23
  adrenaline, go for it. But you know, just zoom out and
• 25:25
  look at the bigger picture. That's all I'd say.
• 25:27
  And the bigger pictures. Doggone sexy for bitcoins prices
• 25:30
  here. Yeah, 100 percent, 100%.
• 25:33
  And yeah, on the one minute chart.
• 25:35
  I I like I was trolling about this at the end of the year.
• 25:39
  I'm like, yeah, let's look at the one minute chart and then
• 25:41
  add the whole chats like yo, Opti bring up the one minute
• 25:44
  chart, bro, like I need it today, I need it today.
• 25:48
  And I'm like, we don't even trade the one minute chart.
• 25:50
  We just like watching sentiment in real time.
• 25:52
  It's just like you said, it's, it's a, it's a good emotional
• 25:55
  rush. It's a good dopamine rush,
• 25:56
  whether it's up or down. You're like, oh, OK, we're
• 25:59
  pumping. Oh, OK, we're dumping and the
• 26:01
  Barts on the one minute have been insane the last couple of
• 26:04
  weeks. So hey, at at the very least
• 26:08
  guys, we can say that the fun is coming back into Bitcoin.
• 26:11
  I know we had a stable coin all of 2025.
• 26:14
  Actually, it wasn't even a stable coin.
• 26:15
  It was a you know, it was a negative stable coin at this
• 26:18
  point. We lost some gains on it, but
• 26:21
  overall, let's just hope we get some volatility back in the
• 26:24
  market. Let's hope we get some fun
• 26:26
  because when the volatility comes back, it's when you feel
• 26:28
  alive again, whether it's down or up, you're like, Yep, this is
• 26:32
  what I was in for this stable coin.
• 26:33
  I did not sign up for a stable coin.
• 26:35
  Okay, I, I, I signed up for mass amounts of volatility up or
• 26:39
  down, but let's hope we get in 2026.
• 26:42
  I, I guess that's, that's my, my ending hope here. 2026 is the
• 26:46
  year of volatility to the upside, though last year we were
• 26:49
  not clear on where we wanted the volatility to be and it it
• 26:52
  really did backfire on us because it was a volatile to the
• 26:56
  downside. But hey, meggers can't be
• 26:59
  choosers at this point anyways, guys, let's keep it moving.
• 27:02
  So to kind of continue this trend of institutions.
• 27:06
  There was an interesting clip coming out of the Coinbase Prime
• 27:09
  institutional manager who is basically confirming what we've
• 27:13
  been saying about institutions coming in.
• 27:16
  And then in the news, we had an interesting kind of story break
• 27:21
  from Bitcoin Magazine surrounding the Samurai wallet
• 27:24
  devs Bitcoin, which I think kind of goes into the broader
• 27:29
  conversation of what is actually happening from the Trump
• 27:32
  administration around Bitcoin or whether there is a lot of
• 27:35
  dissension coming from within the ranks, which it seems to be
• 27:39
  the case. And then of course, in the
• 27:41
  culture. We're going to talk all things
• 27:42
  mining with Kent. So get your questions ready.
• 27:46
  If you want to ask Ken about mining, we're we're going to
• 27:49
  have a good conversation. Make sure you stay with us till
• 27:51
  the end. On that note, we will be right
• 27:53
  back after this commercial break.
• 27:57
  Today's episode is brought to you by Bitcoin Well Infinite.
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  se-ed.com store. All right guys all right we are
• 30:09
  back. The current Bitcoin price is oof
• 30:11
  91,810 dude we were at like 94 a couple of hours ago.
• 30:17
  Anyways the discount from all time high is 27.2% market cap
• 30:22
  1.83 trillion and the block high TikTok next block 931,166 I
• 30:29
  repeat 931166 OK guys so we got a new clip from Coinbase
• 30:34
  institutional. I forget what his what his
• 30:36
  official name is. It's like institutional advisor
• 30:39
  or prime Coinbase, Prime institutional head of
• 30:45
  institutional demand or something, whatever.
• 30:47
  Anyways, he works with institutions on Coinbase.
• 30:49
  He's got a little more of insight into what is happening
• 30:53
  on the back end, which obviously from our perspective, we can
• 30:57
  really only know what's going on via the headlines and
• 31:01
  conversations that we have with people.
• 31:03
  This guy works with the institutions directly.
• 31:06
  He's been going on all kinds of podcasts and shows essentially
• 31:12
  saying, hey, the institutions are here and they're not scared
• 31:15
  of what they saw in Bitcoin in 2025.
• 31:18
  So let's play that clip to kind of, you know, add a little more
• 31:21
  sauce to what we were talking about in the beginning of the
• 31:24
  show. So it did and it is.
• 31:28
  And this is sort of what's been frustrating for those of us who
• 31:30
  work on the institutional side to the last 6-7 months has been
• 31:33
  the delta between retail negative sentiment and
• 31:37
  institutional and regulatory momentum.
• 31:39
  So we look back at last year and I must have been on 20 shows
• 31:43
  talking about how bad Bitcoin was doing net, net down 6% for
• 31:47
  the entire year. This is an asset that's been the
• 31:49
  best performing asset by far by a mile.
• 31:52
  It's been the great 9 out of 12 years.
• 31:54
  So institutions understood that. So I don't know a single
• 31:57
  institution that was putting in the work on crypto and Bitcoin
• 32:01
  last year that stopped because the assets experienced quite
• 32:05
  frankly typical volatility and was down 6%.
• 32:08
  There was nobody who paused or said to you early in the year,
• 32:10
  you know, we're thinking of going this direction, we're
• 32:12
  going to do this and then called you up and said, you know what,
• 32:15
  we're going to wait till 26 and see where things are.
• 32:18
  The institutional side, no. If anything the rapidly
• 32:22
  increasing regulatory momentum move them faster I think today
• 32:27
  versus a year ago. I don't know of a single large
• 32:31
  company that doesn't have an AI and blockchain strategy, or at
• 32:34
  least thinking of 1. Interesting.
• 32:38
  Now obviously I don't like the AI and blockchain strategy.
• 32:41
  That sounds a little shit coinery, but I I do like the the
• 32:45
  institutions know that Bitcoin is the GOAT.
• 32:47
  I kind of missed that the first time going around listening to
• 32:50
  this clip. I was like, did I hear that
• 32:51
  right? He's like, yeah, they all know
• 32:53
  Bitcoin's the GOAT basically. I'm like, all right, bet.
• 32:57
  But that's kind of, you know, the the greater trend going on.
• 33:01
  Now, the most interesting part about this to me is while we
• 33:05
  were making content talking about Bitcoin everyday, you
• 33:08
  know, a lot of bitcoiners on because us bitcoiners are tech
• 33:12
  technically retail, though I, I think there is a little
• 33:14
  difference in, in nuance in that word where I, I consider retail
• 33:19
  like new people coming into Bitcoin.
• 33:21
  If you're in Bitcoin for a while, yes, you're technically
• 33:24
  retail, but I think we're kind of like a different, I don't
• 33:27
  know, a, a different category here.
• 33:29
  It's like, you know, the average person getting into Bitcoin,
• 33:32
  Bitcoiners and then the institutions trying to acquire
• 33:35
  as much of this as possible. Anyways, from the Bitcoiners
• 33:39
  that I've been talking to towards the end of the year, it
• 33:43
  is very obvious that sentiment around Bitcoin, it was probably
• 33:46
  at all time low, even though we did hit all time high.
• 33:49
  We've been holding up above around 100K for the most part of
• 33:52
  the year. Yes, we got a little drop.
• 33:55
  It seemed like everyone was freaking out about Bitcoin when
• 33:59
  now that we're the year is over and we're going into 2026, it's
• 34:04
  interesting to hear that the institutions, at least from
• 34:07
  Coinbase's institutional head of strategies, like, yeah, none of
• 34:10
  them were freaking out. In fact, they were trying to get
• 34:13
  into this faster because they knew where this is headed.
• 34:17
  If that's not a sign of the time, if that's not a sign of
• 34:20
  what is happening behind the scenes, hence with the Morgan
• 34:24
  Stanley trying to file an ETF, we saw JP Morgan going in into
• 34:28
  Bitcoin. Obviously Blackrock's gone into
• 34:31
  Bitcoin. I think all of the major banks
• 34:33
  at this point have positioned themselves for Bitcoin products
• 34:38
  heading into 2026. It's like a perfect storm here.
• 34:42
  Now, obviously, again, not the biggest fan of paper Bitcoin,
• 34:46
  bigger fan of taking Bitcoin into custody, but I do
• 34:50
  understand if you have more of these traditional investment
• 34:54
  vehicles, say A4O1K, why you would use these Wall Street
• 34:58
  products. But it's all saying the same
• 35:01
  thing. They want your Bitcoin.
• 35:03
  You know, they're bullish on Bitcoin.
• 35:05
  What's up? My favorite saying that on on
• 35:07
  shit corners, it's like shit corners are not, they don't not
• 35:12
  like Bitcoin. They just like your Bitcoin
• 35:14
  more. I think we can start to say the
• 35:16
  same thing about institutions. It's not that they don't like
• 35:18
  Bitcoin, they just want your Bitcoin at this point.
• 35:21
  So it's upon you to not give them your Bitcoin.
• 35:24
  That's the biggest message I'm going to be saying for a while
• 35:27
  on this show, I'm going to be a broken record.
• 35:29
  Just stack Bitcoin, take it into custody, take it into cold
• 35:33
  storage. And this is how you ensure you
• 35:36
  survive whatever shenanigans happened from a Wall Street
• 35:39
  perspective anyways. Can't I'm, I'm ranting and I can
• 35:44
  barely even breathe right now because of this, you know,
• 35:46
  mucus, this weird cold I have going on.
• 35:49
  So I'm going to pass you the mic here.
• 35:51
  I know this is kind of similar to what we were just saying a
• 35:55
  minute ago. The institutions are very
• 35:57
  clearly here. And anyone that's telling you
• 35:59
  otherwise, even even Jamie Dimon himself, you know, he might
• 36:02
  sometimes be a little more vague.
• 36:05
  He'll go like, oh, yeah, blockchain is good, Tokenize all
• 36:08
  the things. But in reality, when you hear
• 36:10
  them talk about it, they're all really wanting to figure out how
• 36:13
  to position themselves into Bitcoin.
• 36:15
  So what's your take away watching this clip?
• 36:20
  You're muted bro. You're muted.
• 36:24
  I got you. I got you.
• 36:25
  Put me in coach. I'll, I'll, I'll.
• 36:26
  Give you you're bad, you're bad. Gotcha.
• 36:29
  So the, you know, I think, I think largely we, we were
• 36:34
  deluded as a Bitcoin community when the ETFs launched.
• 36:39
  And, and you know, we said, so I got into Bitcoin 2015.
• 36:42
  So let me give a, a, a narrative arc here over time when I got
• 36:47
  in, you know, the conversation was always ETF when an
• 36:51
  institution's coming, we're going to pump our bags,
• 36:53
  etcetera, etcetera. And I think we all just really
• 36:56
  underestimated what reality of institutional adoption meant
• 36:59
  when it showed up on our doorstep.
• 37:01
  And when it showed up on our doorstep, you know, we just
• 37:05
  didn't pace ourselves. You know, we were used to the
• 37:08
  price just swinging and whips on.
• 37:10
  But guys, gals, one of the trillions here for market cap.
• 37:15
  Loading another trillion onto the Ledger is not a trivial
• 37:18
  business, let alone another 10 trillion.
• 37:21
  If we want to go battle for store value with gold, right, we
• 37:25
  need the institutions to be able to do it.
• 37:28
  And guess what? The institutions are used to
• 37:30
  playing a Wall Street game. So they're going to play the
• 37:32
  Wall Street game. And that's I think a lot of why
• 37:34
  we've seen what we've seen with bitcoins price action this last
• 37:37
  year. So this is a weird, I don't know
• 37:40
  if you call it a wall of worry or just the wall of Wall Street
• 37:42
  that we've been climbing over here, but I think it's a matter
• 37:46
  of just like not getting bored, this institutional activity
• 37:51
  because they move up glacial speed.
• 37:53
  But don't kid yourselves. Like when they catch the game
• 37:56
  theory in the FOMO that the rest of us have, there's a lot of
• 38:00
  capital that's going to flow into this and we are going to
• 38:02
  see that upside that's been suppressed.
• 38:04
  But it's a boring ass game and they're going to try to job on
• 38:08
  us all out of our Bitcoin in the meantime, because that's what
• 38:10
  Wall Street has been great at over time.
• 38:13
  They've been great at building these narratives.
• 38:15
  That's why on the last time I was on, I said the bottom is in
• 38:18
  because I didn't even you know, until the show, the two massive
• 38:21
  Wall Street institutions were coming out in a bullish attitude
• 38:24
  at the exact same time as like the the Fed was ending
• 38:28
  quantitative tightening and moving to quantitative easing
• 38:31
  like those are. That's the way that Wall Street
• 38:33
  has always jawbone the market. And yes, they've been jawboneing
• 38:37
  us and I think we've been the suffers in the room without
• 38:39
  realizing it before your price cycle.
• 38:42
  And now, now finally, it's getting to the point where
• 38:45
  they've played all the games that they can play, even Morgan
• 38:48
  Stanley coming out now and having in kind redemptions.
• 38:52
  That's going to push the ET, all the ETFs in that direction over
• 38:55
  time, assuming that they wind up being more competitive and
• 38:58
  absorbing more Bitcoin, which I believe they will.
• 39:01
  But assuming it all is going that direction, there's only the
• 39:04
  runway for Wall Street games is going to come to an end.
• 39:08
  And then the rides going to get a lot more fun and a lot more
• 39:10
  exciting again. So my advice on all this is just
• 39:13
  man, just hold through the boring times, touch grass, do
• 39:17
  other things with life. Just hold.
• 39:19
  See your Bitcoin because it's it's all going to go the right
• 39:22
  direction. Have faith.
• 39:24
  Yeah, You know, I really wish I could completely log off and
• 39:28
  touch grass constantly, but it's kind of my job to keep up the
• 39:32
  date with stuff. That would be my advice too.
• 39:35
  Don't just buy Bitcoin hoping that they're going to pump your
• 39:37
  bags. It's about constantly acquiring
• 39:40
  Bitcoin and then doing nothing. I actually saw this really good
• 39:44
  tweet. It was about, it was just, it
• 39:46
  wasn't even about Bitcoin, but it was about this guy.
• 39:49
  He's like, yeah, I had a good conversation with this guy that
• 39:51
  trades and he makes like 1.2 million a year trading other
• 39:55
  stuff outside of Bitcoin. And he kind of asked him, he's
• 39:58
  like, all right, like what? What is your secret?
• 40:00
  Like what do you do? He's like, I literally look for
• 40:02
  one kind of formation that I know how to trade.
• 40:06
  And then I trade that when I see it and when I don't, I literally
• 40:11
  do nothing. And the hardest part about it is
• 40:14
  being patient and doing nothing, which is kind of a sentiment
• 40:18
  that bit corners we've been talking about for a long time, I
• 40:21
  believe. What is it like Warren Buffett
• 40:22
  or Charlie Munger say something very similar?
• 40:24
  They're like, look, the reason we are so successful is because
• 40:28
  the hardest part of trading is literally doing nothing.
• 40:31
  Now with Bitcoin, it is a little different because our doing
• 40:34
  nothing means just like, you know, slowly acquiring Bitcoin,
• 40:38
  it's like you're, you're not necessarily doing nothing per
• 40:41
  SE. You're just like constantly very
• 40:43
  boring pragmatic view of this. It's like, OK, I make this much
• 40:49
  money. I can buy this much Bitcoin
• 40:51
  every week I'll be good and yes, the boring time, as we all saw
• 40:56
  last year, I was losing my mind on just how boring the year was
• 41:00
  and now I'm, I'm really hoping it's not that boring this year
• 41:03
  'cause I'm really going to lose my mind this year.
• 41:05
  I'm I'm going to be like the, I don't know if you guys ever read
• 41:07
  the, the short story yellow yellow wallpaper.
• 41:11
  I'm going to be doing, you know, circles around the wall and
• 41:14
  messing up the wallpaper because what are we going to talk about
• 41:17
  if it's not a bullish incredible year, your boys just going to be
• 41:21
  eating some steaks and hanging out by the pool or something.
• 41:24
  So I'll figure it out. But yes, doing nothing is the
• 41:27
  hardest thing in trading. And this isn't just coming from
• 41:29
  bitcoiners, it's coming from anyone that trades.
• 41:32
  So, you know, deal with that information as you will.
• 41:35
  Me and me and Kent been in this for a while and that's literally
• 41:38
  the hardest part is just acquiring Bitcoin and and
• 41:41
  chilling through all the volatility and continuing to
• 41:43
  acquire that Bitcoin, continuing to take it in the cold storage.
• 41:47
  It's not that exciting. I have always joked like, how
• 41:50
  many times can we just tell people to buy Bitcoin, store
• 41:54
  Bitcoin and repeat the process? It's like we we figure out
• 41:59
  million ways to tell you the same thing, continue to
• 42:02
  accumulate Bitcoin. This is how you win.
• 42:05
  Anyways, we do have an interesting news story here.
• 42:08
  This one is kind of interesting going on the news coming out of
• 42:12
  or rather coming around the Samurai wallet dev kind of case
• 42:16
  and what happened with the Bitcoin that they basically gave
• 42:19
  up. Very interesting stuff.
• 42:21
  So we'll be right back after another commercial break.
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• 44:59
  So I honestly thought that this could have been today's headline
• 45:05
  story, but we did talk about the strategic Bitcoin reserve
• 45:09
  yesterday. And I wasn't sure if you guys
• 45:11
  are like, oh, they're rehashing the same story again.
• 45:15
  Like they got nothing to talk about, bro.
• 45:17
  But I think this is, you know, a big story on a lot of different
• 45:21
  fronts. So what am I talking about?
• 45:23
  Shouts out to Frank Korva. Of course, the I forget what,
• 45:27
  what his official title is, but it's like the official White
• 45:32
  House press crypto press advisor conference.
• 45:36
  I, I don't know. I again, you guys know me.
• 45:38
  I can barely remember a freaking quote from someone I've been
• 45:42
  saying for a million times. So forgive me Frank, but he
• 45:45
  worked at Bitcoin magazine. He is in the White House asking
• 45:48
  Trump questions and of course he writes over at Bitcoin magazine.
• 45:52
  Anyways, he posted this yesterday or I believe it was
• 45:56
  yesterday, could have been this morning, whatever.
• 45:59
  Anyways, the headline is did the DOJ prosecutors violate Trump's
• 46:04
  executive order by selling the forfeited samurai wallet
• 46:08
  Bitcoin? Now I know from a more hardcore
• 46:10
  Bitcoin perspective, you're like, that's a good thing.
• 46:12
  Let's get this Bitcoin out of the US his hands.
• 46:15
  But I think this just conversation brings up a lot of
• 46:19
  questions of what is actually happening within the White House
• 46:23
  or rather within these institutions around Bitcoin.
• 46:26
  Now I will read a little bit, not too much.
• 46:29
  I know you guys yell at me when I read too much, but on November
• 46:32
  3rd, 2025, it seems that the US Marshall Service, at the
• 46:35
  direction of the Department of Justice, used Coinbase Prime to
• 46:39
  liquidate the Bitcoin that the Samurai developers forfeited as
• 46:42
  part of their plea deal, likely violating President Trump's
• 46:46
  mandate to keep such Bitcoin in the United States.
• 46:49
  Strategy Bitcoin Reserve aims. They sold roughly $6.3 million
• 46:54
  worth of Bitcoin that the Samurai wallet developers paid
• 46:58
  the DOJ as a fee that was part of their guilty plea.
• 47:01
  In doing so, it has potentially violated Executive Order 14233,
• 47:07
  which mandates that Bitcoin acquired via criminal or civil
• 47:10
  asset forfeiture proceedings should be held as part of the
• 47:14
  United States Strategy Bitcoin Reserve.
• 47:17
  If the Southern District of New York, the federal judicial
• 47:20
  district in which the Samurai case was to be tried, did in
• 47:23
  fact violate Executive Order 14233, it would not be the first
• 47:28
  first time employees of the SD and Y have acted in defiance of
• 47:32
  direction from the federal government.
• 47:34
  So again, going into this, what happened according to the
• 47:38
  document titled Asset Liquidation Agreement, which has
• 47:40
  been obtained by Bitcoin magazine exclusively, the
• 47:43
  Bitcoin that was forfeited is to be sold or already has been.
• 47:48
  Now there is a coin or sorry, a, a UTXO, an address that this was
• 47:54
  linked to. And apparently if you're looking
• 47:57
  at the blockchain explorers, they have no Bitcoin left.
• 48:00
  So it seems like they already sold that Bitcoin.
• 48:05
  But as per the document, the defendants agreed to transfer
• 48:08
  roughly, or rather 57.55 Bitcoin at the time the final party
• 48:14
  signed the agreement, and the Bitcoin was sent to an address
• 48:18
  on November 3rd. Instead, it seems that it has
• 48:22
  been sent to Coinbase Prime, and now that address has literally
• 48:27
  no Bitcoin left, so it seemingly has been sold.
• 48:31
  The Coinbase Prime address currently has a 0 balance as
• 48:34
  well, indicating that it has been sold.
• 48:38
  Obviously from a you know, pro Trump view here, it seems like
• 48:46
  the DOJ or the SDNY is actively fighting the, you know, Bitcoin
• 48:51
  superpower of the world meme. The rhetoric on the other hand,
• 48:55
  like what Lola leads, who's been doing a great work covering a
• 48:59
  lot of the stuff coming out of the Trump administration or
• 49:01
  rather politics and the White House and DC in general.
• 49:04
  This is kind of her take. Friendly reminder that the
• 49:08
  Treasury has not even fulfilled the most basic task orders in
• 49:12
  Executive Order 14233 SA strategic wait SA compiling As
• 49:18
  for example, compiling a list of assets held by each agency or
• 49:21
  assessments on transfer authority.
• 49:23
  Which means that the Trump is either being defied by all his
• 49:28
  agencies or that he is a liar. Now, of course some people will
• 49:32
  take whatever side of this, though it does seem like he, we
• 49:37
  have here the executive director, the new president,
• 49:40
  Council of Advisors for Digital Assets saying we are looking
• 49:43
  into this. So, you know, I guess we're all
• 49:46
  just monitoring the situation, even people at the digital
• 49:50
  assets working Group. But I think this does kind of
• 49:54
  bring up the greater conversation as we've kind of
• 49:58
  been covering since the Samurai wallet DOJ case in general.
• 50:03
  It does bring up the question of is war on Bitcoin officially
• 50:07
  over? Now?
• 50:09
  It does seem from the Trump administration, or at least
• 50:12
  those that are under Trump, it does seem like they are
• 50:15
  embracing Bitcoin. Whether, you know, it's them
• 50:18
  kind of forcing the SEC, the CFTC to make favorable
• 50:22
  regulations around Bitcoin, whether it's announcing the
• 50:25
  executive order in the 1st place, acquiring Bitcoin,
• 50:28
  whether it's them, you know, potentially for seizing, I don't
• 50:33
  know, 600,000 Bitcoin from Venezuela, which is still
• 50:36
  unconfirmed. It does seem like they are
• 50:39
  serious about the strategic Bitcoin reserve.
• 50:42
  So like that last part, I know Lowell Leech is not the biggest
• 50:45
  fan of Trump, which is why she's saying maybe Trump is lying.
• 50:48
  I think what is probably more the case, which is just where it
• 50:52
  happened. Remember I was showing you guys
• 50:55
  the Maduro perp walk in SD in New York City and we all know
• 51:00
  the new mayor, he's a a very proud socialist here.
• 51:04
  So it does seem like there is a divergent between what is
• 51:08
  happening in some states that are, you know, more left-leaning
• 51:12
  that are very anti Trump. And it does seem like they're
• 51:15
  doing whatever they can to defy Trump now.
• 51:18
  I think the interesting take here is that obviously they're
• 51:22
  they're by definition kind of hurting the people they are
• 51:26
  supposed to represent because in our opinion, bitcoins going to
• 51:29
  go up. But there is, I think within
• 51:33
  most institutions right now, there is a lot of people
• 51:37
  dissenting from the Trump agenda.
• 51:39
  And I think you can very easily argue that that's probably why
• 51:43
  there's been so much confusion on whether what Trump is doing
• 51:47
  good for us as Americans. Is it bad?
• 51:50
  Is this them? As Simon Dixon always says, you
• 51:52
  know, just continuing the financial industrial complex.
• 51:56
  But on the one hand, my personal take on this is, look, obviously
• 52:01
  this is the separation of money and state here.
• 52:04
  The more Bitcoin they can get rid of.
• 52:05
  I think it's better for most of us people.
• 52:08
  On the other hand, it does go against the strategic Bitcoin
• 52:13
  reserve narrative, which I think was one of the bigger catalysts
• 52:16
  to get Bitcoin above the last all time high.
• 52:19
  So I I think it goes into more on the culture war going on
• 52:24
  right now. A lot of people that currently
• 52:26
  hold power are, are really dislike Trump and they're doing
• 52:29
  everything they can to sabotage him.
• 52:31
  And I think this might be something similar going on.
• 52:33
  So it's kind of my take on this, but Kent, I don't know what.
• 52:36
  What's your thoughts when you hear something like this?
• 52:40
  I've actually gone through the actors in this and quick
• 52:42
  question for you Opti. See if you know the answer
• 52:44
  because I don't. It's Frank Korva.
• 52:46
  The one at the White House that that asked in the the press
• 52:49
  conference about Keone, was that Frank?
• 52:51
  No, I don't. I don't, I think it was, no, it
• 52:56
  was someone else. I think it was someone at
• 52:57
  Coindesk that asked about, you know, pardoning Keon.
• 53:01
  But yeah, that's the other, you know, wrinkle here.
• 53:03
  He Trump did say he might pardon them.
• 53:06
  So it is very interesting. All of these different factors
• 53:09
  playing out or variables playing out in real time.
• 53:12
  Well, so here here's here's AI I'm seeing here and it's so it's
• 53:16
  a different take than yours, but the Southern District of New
• 53:19
  York has been a problematic jurisdiction in general
• 53:24
  judicially, right? Like there's been a lot of
• 53:26
  things that have come out of there.
• 53:27
  I couldn't list all of them for you if I tried right here.
• 53:30
  But they've largely been a judicial authority kind of move
• 53:34
  into the beat of their own drum. So what I mean by that, if you
• 53:36
  know the the details of the Keon case was samurai.
• 53:39
  So there's two deaths there. Keon's in jail already.
• 53:43
  He turned himself in like the week before Christmas.
• 53:47
  He was given so that the federal authority that was over like
• 53:50
  money transmitter rules, like already said stated, gave them a
• 53:54
  written statement, the Southern District of New York, a written
• 53:57
  statement that what they did did not violate any anything.
• 54:02
  And so these guys have gone to prison largely for no reason
• 54:06
  other than the Southern District of New York wanting to prove a
• 54:09
  point. They didn't have to follow
• 54:12
  through with the sentencing and legally it doesn't look like
• 54:16
  they've got a lot of backstop. But these guys had to they pled
• 54:19
  guilty because they were fearful of, you know, do I want to miss
• 54:22
  the next 24, five years of my kids life or do I want to plead
• 54:25
  guilty in order to take two years?
• 54:27
  And so there's an argument should they've pled or not?
• 54:29
  You know, I'm, I don't want to get into all that.
• 54:31
  What I see here is Frank Korva is doing a wonderful job of
• 54:34
  poking the bear, right? Because what he's doing is he's
• 54:37
  he's written this article saying, hey, dummy Trump, you're
• 54:41
  getting an egg on your face over here.
• 54:42
  The Southern District in New York is defying you.
• 54:45
  You should come over here and clean this up.
• 54:46
  And then by the way, when you clean that up, you're going to
• 54:48
  get my boys Keon out of the out of the plane.
• 54:51
  So that's that's what I see the game being played here is so I
• 54:54
  love it because I don't think Keon should be in jail or his
• 54:58
  partner in crime there. I guess I shouldn't even joke
• 55:00
  about using that expression, but his partner that was working on
• 55:04
  Samurai wallet, You know, this guy should not be in jail.
• 55:06
  They're the next like Ross Olbrich's that need to be freed.
• 55:10
  And if you haven't signed the petition and participated that
• 55:13
  please do because they're unlawfully jailed.
• 55:15
  From my vantage point. And I think Frank Orva's with
• 55:19
  this, pointing this out in such a public way and seeing, you
• 55:23
  know, the Trump White House actually, hey, we're watching
• 55:26
  this is helping to ultimately get these guys out of jail.
• 55:30
  Yeah, that's that's a great take.
• 55:32
  As we know, I'm pretty sure that Trump himself and his
• 55:37
  administration are not looking that favorably at SDNY and
• 55:42
  what's going on in New York right now.
• 55:44
  There's been a lot of kind of cultural conversation about
• 55:47
  what's happening in New York right now.
• 55:49
  And those judges down there, like you said, shout out to
• 55:53
  Frank Korma. Maybe something comes of this
• 55:56
  for the better of all bitcoiners, or rather maybe
• 55:59
  actually more kind of surgical for the better of the samurai
• 56:03
  wallet devs themselves. And, and they do get a part in
• 56:05
  it and, and that whole case does get exposed for what it was,
• 56:09
  which, as you said, or rather more alluded to, it was a, a
• 56:12
  very clearly a political case here.
• 56:15
  As when Keon did the rounds before he actually, you know,
• 56:19
  turned himself in. He was very clearly and I, I
• 56:22
  probably, you know, at not the advice of his lawyers being
• 56:27
  like, look, they already had the results they wanted and they
• 56:31
  just kind of backed, you know, back filled the information to
• 56:35
  get what they wanted, which was the guilty pleas or the guilty
• 56:39
  conviction here. So hey, maybe maybe you're
• 56:42
  right. Maybe maybe this is Frank
• 56:44
  playing 5D chess here of hey, look, let's shine a light to
• 56:48
  this and then maybe we can get, you know, some bitcoiners freed
• 56:52
  like we got Ross Olbrich freed. So that I I like that.
• 56:55
  That's a that's a good take there.
• 56:57
  Very interesting. So yeah, shout out to Frank.
• 57:00
  Love you, Frank. He's doing great work.
• 57:01
  He's doing Satoshi's work over there at Bitcoin Magazine.
• 57:04
  Anyways, let's, let's do our last transition and we're going
• 57:08
  to talk with Kent all things Bitcoin mining.
• 57:11
  So if you have some questions about Bitcoin mining, now is the
• 57:14
  time to drop him in the chat. If we get some good questions,
• 57:17
  we will answer them in one minute.
• 57:21
  I want to give a shout out to our partner Hive Digital
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  performance. At Hive, you've got dual
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  green and clean, and they're rewriting the playbook on
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  sustainable digital infrastructure.
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  You can catch the latest buzz at Hive Digital Tech or at Hive
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  digitaltech.com. I want to give a shout out to
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  our partner Bitcoin Ben dot IO. If you're into freedom Bitcoin
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  All righty then guys, we are back Kent, our boy Kent from SAS
• 59:21
  mining our I forget what we what we like to call you our in house
• 59:26
  mining expert, you know, updating us on what's going on
• 59:30
  on the back end. But I do know as you, as you
• 59:33
  were telling me before the show, you want to hit on what you love
• 59:36
  to talk the most about Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining.
• 59:39
  And that's the idea of Bitcoin mining as savings.
• 59:43
  And you were telling me you're like, I've been thinking about
• 59:45
  this a little differently. Hopefully this is a new way to
• 59:48
  spread the same message. So I will give you the floor.
• 59:51
  It's all you can. Yeah.
• 59:54
  No, I've been just thinking I had a really cool client
• 59:56
  interaction this last month. Somebody that was unhappy after
• 1:00:01
  just like 18 months in his mining operation and I broke it
• 1:00:05
  down the way that I see mining and he's he's you know, we're
• 1:00:09
  still kind of going back and forth, but I think it opened his
• 1:00:12
  eyes because, you know, mining is an opportunity to energy cost
• 1:00:16
  average into a Bitcoin position over three years.
• 1:00:20
  And if you just take some simple math like, hey, you have an
• 1:00:22
  electric bill every month, you get generate sats every month,
• 1:00:25
  right? Like just day in day out.
• 1:00:27
  As you secure the network you earn sats for doing.
• 1:00:29
  So, right, and you do that by participating with the mining
• 1:00:32
  pool, you just divide those two numbers, you get a dollar per
• 1:00:35
  Bitcoin price. I call that the energy cost,
• 1:00:38
  average price that you're paying for your Bitcoin right now.
• 1:00:42
  In a couple of the offerings that we've got, one in Paraguay,
• 1:00:45
  one in Ethiopia, it's between 50,000 and 64,000, right?
• 1:00:48
  So pretty good savings to the Bitcoin that you'd buy on an
• 1:00:52
  exchange. So every bit of Bitcoin that you
• 1:00:54
  get, you've got to multiply that Bitcoin by the the price of
• 1:00:58
  delta that you saved by mining versus buying.
• 1:01:01
  And that delta, that difference, that savings is ultimately how
• 1:01:06
  you are justifying the investment in the mining rig,
• 1:01:09
  right? So that's the simple way that I
• 1:01:11
  think about it. Maybe I lost everybody here, but
• 1:01:13
  at the end of the day, you're using energy to get Bitcoin and
• 1:01:17
  gosh darn if it isn't just a radical thing that you can,
• 1:01:20
  well, guess what? You can, you can become the
• 1:01:22
  equivalent of the Fed by printing your own Bitcoin,
• 1:01:25
  right? And everybody can, you just need
• 1:01:27
  electricity at a low enough price and a piece of mining
• 1:01:31
  equipment, network connection. We help out with all of that,
• 1:01:34
  right? And so our business model is we
• 1:01:35
  don't make anything sell any hardware electricity.
• 1:01:38
  Instead we just say, hey, if we can produce your Bitcoin, then
• 1:01:40
  we get to take 15% of that and that keeps our interests
• 1:01:44
  aligned. So we're non custodial.
• 1:01:45
  We'll never hold your Bitcoin any of that.
• 1:01:48
  But if you look at that argument of energy savings, then you're
• 1:01:52
  only talking about the price of Bitcoin.
• 1:01:53
  And this is the really radical thing is if you think about what
• 1:01:56
  mining as a service is, it's honestly competition with
• 1:01:59
  exchanges because everybody's been trained since 2012 when
• 1:02:03
  mining separated from running a node.
• 1:02:07
  You know, up until 2012, Bitcoiners that ran the Bitcoin
• 1:02:11
  code were largely miners too, because the code was together.
• 1:02:14
  Then a six and Coinbase opened their doors and the timeline
• 1:02:17
  split and all those of us have been trying to go buy your
• 1:02:19
  Bitcoin. But if you look at it, mining as
• 1:02:22
  a service is the top of the Bitcoin stack from an energy
• 1:02:26
  perspective versus you go into an exchange, it's kind of like
• 1:02:29
  the bottom of the Fiat stack, if you will, to where you can
• 1:02:33
  crossover into the Bitcoin ecosystem, but you're doing it
• 1:02:36
  at like the base of the Fiat stack.
• 1:02:38
  So we're right here competing with the exchanges.
• 1:02:41
  And I would argue that it is a better exchange, better of way
• 1:02:45
  to acquire SAT's through mining because guess what, they're
• 1:02:47
  wild, meaning they're outside the banking surveillance system.
• 1:02:51
  They're at a discount. You know, you've got the energy
• 1:02:53
  cost discount as opposed to dollar cost averaging on an
• 1:02:57
  exchange. And guess what, you don't have
• 1:03:00
  the point of purchase volatility that frankly freaks out a lot of
• 1:03:03
  people and keeps them away. If you're going to go on to an
• 1:03:05
  exchange and buy a grip of Bitcoin and that price drops
• 1:03:09
  20%, you're going to freak out and feel stupid if you're a
• 1:03:11
  first time buyer. So I look at the the market as
• 1:03:14
  everybody's going to end up as Bitcoin or someday, right?
• 1:03:16
  That's just my fundamental belief.
• 1:03:18
  And if you look at the stages to adoption, you start off as a no
• 1:03:22
  coiner, then you go to a pre coiner.
• 1:03:24
  It's like, hey, maybe there's something interesting going on
• 1:03:26
  here and maybe I'm going to buy a little bit there early
• 1:03:29
  bitcoiner and then eventually you're a full scale like
• 1:03:31
  bleeding maniac like you and I Opti, you know that are orange
• 1:03:35
  built to the Max and screaming from the rooftop.
• 1:03:37
  So we got to separate money and state.
• 1:03:39
  So you know, when it's all said and done, you know how you get
• 1:03:44
  those sats though has a fundamentally different
• 1:03:47
  impression for you. You will wind up with a
• 1:03:49
  different experience and that different experience will be
• 1:03:53
  better for you if you're acquiring them by mining.
• 1:03:55
  That's my fundamental argument because it's lower cost outside
• 1:03:58
  the banking system and you can rest at night because you're
• 1:04:01
  just being strange sats from your mining rig.
• 1:04:04
  So those are the reasons that's the argument for why mining
• 1:04:06
  versus buying. But at the end of the day, I am
• 1:04:09
  in a heated battle with the changes.
• 1:04:11
  They have no idea who I am, but I'm in a heated battle with them
• 1:04:14
  to prove that mining is a better way to get your sense.
• 1:04:17
  Interesting. OK, well that is an updated.
• 1:04:20
  View on the last time you were on this show talking about
• 1:04:23
  Bitcoin mining. And I think one of the things
• 1:04:26
  that I've learned just all of last year is a lot of us that
• 1:04:32
  you know, are trying to get more people into Bitcoin.
• 1:04:35
  You realize some of the narratives and, and kind of some
• 1:04:37
  of the memes you use and the ways that you make your
• 1:04:40
  arguments, they just always get met with, you know, dead eyes
• 1:04:43
  here. And so I'm just, I just want to
• 1:04:45
  give you, you know, congratulations or applause on
• 1:04:48
  like you're thinking deeply on like, how do I make this make
• 1:04:52
  sense to more people? Because I'm getting, you're
• 1:04:54
  getting more people. They're like, I'm this is
• 1:04:56
  interesting to me, but like, why would I do this?
• 1:05:00
  And you're like, OK, I I'm just tired.
• 1:05:02
  Like I want people to know why I think this is the best way to
• 1:05:05
  get Bitcoin And it's definitely updated.
• 1:05:09
  Thank you, man. No, it's been true.
• 1:05:11
  And. You know, people are waking up
• 1:05:12
  to it and you know, you guys have been wonderful and the
• 1:05:15
  audience here has been wonderful.
• 1:05:16
  You know, we've got a lot of clients that have come our
• 1:05:19
  direction from just seeing, seeing our advertising and my
• 1:05:23
  being on here helping you guys out with the, the understanding
• 1:05:26
  of mining. Like we doubled our customer
• 1:05:27
  base the last two years in a row, basically, which is pretty
• 1:05:30
  damn exciting. I mean, we're still relatively
• 1:05:32
  small, but you know, you get, you guys have probably heard the
• 1:05:34
  thing of like, hey, do you want a big bag of rice or do you want
• 1:05:38
  to double each grain on a chess board?
• 1:05:40
  I've totally blown the metaphor, right?
• 1:05:42
  But exponentials have a way of really accelerating.
• 1:05:44
  So, you know, we keep doubling our customer base and the
• 1:05:47
  message is going to spread. You know, we're small and
• 1:05:50
  growing, but people are finding it to be a better experience and
• 1:05:54
  keep coming back to the table. Like a good majority of our
• 1:05:57
  clients wind up being repeat buyers.
• 1:05:59
  And you know, instead of stacking Bitcoin like this is
• 1:06:01
  one of the big things I think a lot of people miss is the unit
• 1:06:04
  bias keeps a lot of people away from Bitcoin.
• 1:06:06
  Well, guess what, you don't need to buy one whole Bitcoin.
• 1:06:09
  You can go buy like one whole mining rig on a money printer
• 1:06:12
  and stream sense to yourself. And guess what, $5000 for a
• 1:06:14
  mining rig is a whole lot easier to achieve than $100,000 for a
• 1:06:18
  full Bitcoin, right? So might as well shift shift the
• 1:06:22
  way you're thinking about it and go go buy a Bitcoin printer.
• 1:06:25
  Or or $5000. Is the only way you can legally
• 1:06:29
  buy a mining a money printer? You know, So you know, there's
• 1:06:33
  trade-offs, there's trade-offs. That's right.
• 1:06:37
  Go compete with the Fed. Boys.
• 1:06:39
  Yeah, become your own money printer.
• 1:06:41
  That should be the. New motto.
• 1:06:43
  Anyways, Ken, I do want to ask you about kind of, you know,
• 1:06:48
  it's the start of 2020 26 and I think last time you came on, we
• 1:06:53
  did do kind of a state of mining in general.
• 1:06:57
  Like what what are your thoughts on on just the Bitcoin mining
• 1:07:00
  ecosystem right now where Hashrade is?
• 1:07:03
  You know, like what, what would be your take away?
• 1:07:04
  Because we've noticed whenever we talk about Bitcoin mining on
• 1:07:08
  the show, like people don't care, They just like don't
• 1:07:10
  TuneIn. But the ones that hang out, that
• 1:07:12
  are hardcore with us, you know, hang out to this segment, they
• 1:07:15
  are obviously very interested on what's going on from your
• 1:07:18
  vantage point. So as of now, it is January 6th,
• 1:07:22
  2020. Sixth, what is the state of
• 1:07:25
  Bitcoin mining from not only an individual level, but also from
• 1:07:29
  a more institutional level? Like where are we currently?
• 1:07:34
  Oh man. So Bitcoin, I always come back
• 1:07:37
  to Brandon Quiddim and his Pioneer Species model for
• 1:07:41
  Bitcoin mining because I think it's accurate and he's an
• 1:07:43
  advisor for SAS Mining. If you've not read that, please
• 1:07:46
  do. It's a Seminole piece as it
• 1:07:48
  really to Bitcoin mining. But the idea is that Bitcoin
• 1:07:51
  mining shows up and monetizes the cheapest power it can find,
• 1:07:55
  which is often times in high risk situations.
• 1:07:58
  And then by doing so, civilization sort of grows up
• 1:08:02
  around it. And then more, more demand shows
• 1:08:06
  up for that electricity and Bitcoin miners go on to find
• 1:08:09
  another very cheap source of power.
• 1:08:11
  I mean, This is why we're in Paraguay, in Ethiopia.
• 1:08:14
  It's also why we're in the Arctic Circle in Norway and some
• 1:08:18
  fringe dam in Wisconsin, right? Because we're following that.
• 1:08:23
  And what you see is there is tremendous demand right now for
• 1:08:27
  power, cheap power and power generally in the US Like I think
• 1:08:31
  the the average price of electricity in the US is nearly
• 1:08:35
  $0.20 per kWh. So it's up like 30 or 40% in the
• 1:08:38
  last year or two. I mean, it's incredible, the
• 1:08:41
  pressure. And as a result, I think one of
• 1:08:43
  the more exciting things to watch this year is what the
• 1:08:45
  publicly traded money, US publicly traded money companies
• 1:08:48
  do, because a lot of them, they're having their nose turned
• 1:08:51
  right. They've got a fiduciary
• 1:08:53
  responsibility to return dollars to their investors.
• 1:08:55
  And guess what, the AI companies are are showing up at their
• 1:08:59
  doorstep waving, you know, fat sacks and Benjamins in front of
• 1:09:03
  their noses and saying, hey, why don't you guys sell us your
• 1:09:05
  power contracts and we can repurpose your infrastructure
• 1:09:09
  and do AAI data centers. And so there's a lot of half
• 1:09:12
  rate that should come offline if all that activity is followed
• 1:09:18
  through. So what I see is this weird
• 1:09:21
  dynamic that could play out, not promising it, but could play out
• 1:09:25
  is maybe a 2030% dip in half rate while Bitcoin's price is
• 1:09:29
  also ripping, making everybody that's in mining just absolutely
• 1:09:32
  stoked that they grid it out like just a rough last year
• 1:09:36
  because last year was rough, right?
• 1:09:38
  Like the difficulty kept going up while Bitcoin's price was
• 1:09:42
  flat, right? And that means basically if
• 1:09:43
  you're mining, you're getting squeezed.
• 1:09:45
  And the last month has been very interesting, right?
• 1:09:49
  We've basically been down on difficulty and or flat, right,
• 1:09:54
  like the last four epics. So this is every two weeks the
• 1:09:58
  difficulty adjusts, right? And that that affects like how
• 1:10:02
  many sats you get per share of work that you deliver.
• 1:10:07
  And that actually has been creeping up and going the
• 1:10:10
  opposite direction, right? So you're getting more sats for
• 1:10:12
  your, for the amount of work that you're delivering to the
• 1:10:15
  network. And so there's a weird dynamic
• 1:10:17
  at play here that I think should have played out will make
• 1:10:21
  everybody in mining look incredibly intelligent for
• 1:10:23
  having been here. Now I could not go that way.
• 1:10:27
  You know, we could see a bunch of crazy hashrate come online
• 1:10:30
  from nation state actors. But here's what I know.
• 1:10:32
  At the end of the day, if you can get low cost power and
• 1:10:36
  efficient mining rigs and you can get them plugged in, you're
• 1:10:38
  going to be pretty happy with the outcome in the long term.
• 1:10:41
  Just full stop. Nobody's upset that sits on
• 1:10:43
  their Bitcoin for a few years. Yeah, 100%.
• 1:10:47
  I think one of the. Bigger, I guess more impressive
• 1:10:52
  things that I did see last year with the hash rate was that it
• 1:10:55
  got to one Zeta hash. You know a lot of we I think
• 1:10:58
  bitcoiners have been talking about that for a long time
• 1:11:01
  there's been AI guess a lot of interest coming from nation
• 1:11:04
  states. We we saw a lot of rumors about
• 1:11:07
  you know whether the Middle East has been mining Bitcoin, whether
• 1:11:10
  Russia's been mining Bitcoin. We saw the hash rate go back
• 1:11:13
  into China, even though they're still kind of banning it right
• 1:11:17
  now, you know, like they're they're just it really does show
• 1:11:20
  you that Bitcoin miners are like the I I don't even know the the
• 1:11:25
  gorilla, you know, unit out there and they just go into all
• 1:11:29
  these different very hostile environments to find cheap
• 1:11:35
  energy and acquire as much Bitcoin.
• 1:11:37
  So I'm also very bullish on just Bitcoin miners in general.
• 1:11:41
  I always joke that the Bitcoin miners never really get enough
• 1:11:44
  love. They're like the, you know, ugly
• 1:11:48
  step. What's it ugly, red headed,
• 1:11:51
  stepchild of the industry. They're like the most important
• 1:11:54
  aspect of this. But like, no one likes to talk
• 1:11:56
  about them. They're like, yeah, whatever,
• 1:11:57
  dude. Like don't really care, but I
• 1:12:02
  do. I do.
• 1:12:03
  I know you don't like to make. Predictions.
• 1:12:05
  But could you make a prediction you kind of hit on it on where
• 1:12:10
  do you think hash rate will end up 2026 maybe, Maybe do a bear
• 1:12:15
  case and a bull case. Well, I I think here's the
• 1:12:18
  middle of the road take. But I think we're going to say
• 1:12:21
  Zeta all year. And I, I just like to say Zeta
• 1:12:25
  because how, how many industries do you get to say the word Zeta
• 1:12:28
  in? I mean, it's just a rap word to
• 1:12:29
  say just rolls off the tongue. You know, kidding aside, I think
• 1:12:33
  I think that what we're going to see is this is off the cuff
• 1:12:39
  here. I haven't really thought deeply
• 1:12:41
  about it. So to give you guys an an idea,
• 1:12:43
  if you go back the last five years, give you a statistic, the
• 1:12:47
  average of month over month hash rate increase has been more than
• 1:12:50
  3%. Mining has made sense because
• 1:12:54
  Bitcoin's price has gone up faster than the hash rate.
• 1:12:58
  So you were making you're saving to mine and buy assuming you've
• 1:13:04
  got relatively low cost power. Now what I think is going to
• 1:13:09
  happen this year with AI is going to lead to a weird dynamic
• 1:13:12
  where it is more likely to be less aggressively high.
• 1:13:16
  But I would be shocked if we aren't still in Zeta hash
• 1:13:19
  territory. So I think AI is going to take
• 1:13:21
  and move pub codes away. This is going to be great
• 1:13:23
  actually for the network, right, because the incentives are not
• 1:13:27
  totally aligned with Bubco's and network versus, you know, all
• 1:13:31
  the hash rate heating that's looking to come online and
• 1:13:33
  people figuring out how to get bit access on their desktops and
• 1:13:38
  all these sort of things is going to allow that contingent
• 1:13:42
  to sort of pick up the slack. And, you know, folks like us
• 1:13:46
  where we've got decentralized ownership in centralized
• 1:13:49
  locations across the planet, you know, helps to distribute the
• 1:13:52
  risk of anybody being able to like clamp down on a single data
• 1:13:57
  center someplace, right? So I think it's great for the
• 1:14:00
  network to see people that are dollar minded shift off and we
• 1:14:05
  can move from, you know, the network has been largely
• 1:14:07
  dominated by Fiat hashing. And what I mean by that is
• 1:14:10
  people that use Bitcoin mining as a proxy to get more dollars,
• 1:14:14
  that leads to not the same outcome as if you see Bitcoin as
• 1:14:17
  your money and you're here to get Bitcoin for your mining
• 1:14:20
  efforts. And getting more of the network
• 1:14:23
  dominated by Bitcoin hashers will get rid of a lot of the
• 1:14:25
  centralization issues that worry me and many of the others in the
• 1:14:29
  Bitcoin community. You know, things like
• 1:14:31
  centralization of mining pools, centralization of hardware
• 1:14:34
  production, you know, these are all choke points that could at
• 1:14:38
  some point be attack factors for the Bitcoin ecosystem.
• 1:14:42
  Love it. Absolutely love it.
• 1:14:44
  Good. Breakdown I I I will point out
• 1:14:47
  that you didn't necessarily answer the question, but we'll
• 1:14:50
  take one Zeta for the the whole year.
• 1:14:53
  Really, really good inside. So really good politics.
• 1:14:56
  You're playing a good political game there, Ken.
• 1:14:58
  Oh man, I'm not giving it. I mean if you if you want, if
• 1:15:01
  you want. An argument.
• 1:15:02
  If you want an argument, you sit down a bunch of bitcoiners
• 1:15:05
  around the Thanksgiving table and you ask them what's price
• 1:15:07
  and what Tash record. Yeah, right.
• 1:15:09
  Yeah. It's, it's like, it's like
• 1:15:10
  politics and religion. Then you.
• 1:15:12
  Then you also and then you also ask.
• 1:15:14
  Them the does price follow hash or does hash follow price?
• 1:15:19
  And you're never going to not get an argument.
• 1:15:22
  Never, never. No.
• 1:15:24
  So it's a fun one. So I I don't know.
• 1:15:25
  I was totally wrong about what 2025 was going to be like.
• 1:15:28
  I feel like I've got a better lock on 2026 from a price
• 1:15:31
  perspective. From a hash like perspective
• 1:15:34
  it's harder because of this AI thing.
• 1:15:36
  It's like, how much is that going to impact in the network?
• 1:15:39
  I I just don't really know If you use like some LLMS, they
• 1:15:43
  guess like 20 to 40% of hash rate will be impacted.
• 1:15:46
  But then how much are institutions coming in, right?
• 1:15:48
  Like the sovereign nation states are like, oh gosh, like we need
• 1:15:52
  energy money, we need Bitcoin. And how much do they ramp up?
• 1:15:55
  I don't know. It's, it's kind of a crapshoot.
• 1:15:57
  Hard to say. Yeah, 100%.
• 1:15:59
  And actually, you, you kind of reminded me.
• 1:16:01
  Of there has been and we'll wrap up after this and we'll plug
• 1:16:05
  SaaS right before we roll out today's show.
• 1:16:08
  But an interesting kind of like trend and narrative that I've
• 1:16:11
  seen in the last few weeks was this idea, you know, for a long
• 1:16:16
  time in Bitcoin, there was always that this like, meme, you
• 1:16:19
  know, of Bitcoin miners are gonna boil the ocean.
• 1:16:22
  They're gonna take over all the world's energy.
• 1:16:24
  And then once kind of AI became a thing and, and people started
• 1:16:29
  talking about, oh, AI is gonna, you know what, what's Elon Musk
• 1:16:32
  saying? Like, AI is gonna make sure
• 1:16:34
  we're not gonna work and we're all gonna be super rich and it's
• 1:16:36
  gonna improve our lives. Guys.
• 1:16:39
  It's interesting to see the narrative shift around energy.
• 1:16:43
  One example, and I didn't Fact Check this, but my buddy was
• 1:16:46
  telling me that even like Bill Gates has completely shifted on
• 1:16:51
  a dime, where before he was out here, like, oh, we're going to
• 1:16:55
  block out the sun because it's bad for us and too much energy
• 1:16:59
  use. And now they're like, wait,
• 1:17:01
  we're super bullish on AI. We need more energy now.
• 1:17:04
  And I'm like, all right, look, whatever it took to get here,
• 1:17:07
  I'm kind of OK with it. Obviously I'm not the biggest
• 1:17:10
  fan of what Bill Gates has done per SE, but I've always been
• 1:17:14
  like, we need more energy. More energy is good.
• 1:17:17
  I am not one of these people that wants to take us back to
• 1:17:19
  the stone ages and have less energy.
• 1:17:22
  But it is interesting how this shift of narrative has happened
• 1:17:25
  so quickly because of AI. And now everyone like the ESG
• 1:17:29
  standards are like completely out the window.
• 1:17:32
  They're just like, yeah, we need AI, We need more energy.
• 1:17:36
  And it's like, all right, cool. Like, remember, you guys have
• 1:17:38
  fought Bitcoin miners for, you know, 17 years on energy usage.
• 1:17:43
  And now since AI is going to do all these wonderful utopian
• 1:17:47
  things, they're like, we need more energy.
• 1:17:50
  So did have you caught all that? I I'm sure you caught that.
• 1:17:54
  Yeah, it's it's it's wonderful to.
• 1:17:58
  To just watch like you fight a fight for so long and then watch
• 1:18:03
  somebody else walk in the room and you know, they turned on the
• 1:18:05
  white switch and like it's all over.
• 1:18:07
  We're done packing up, boys. We don't have to fight anymore.
• 1:18:11
  It's crazy. It's so crazy making, but you
• 1:18:14
  know, it's, it's the way the game is played right now and we
• 1:18:17
  still live in Fiat land. You know, we may be Bitcoiners,
• 1:18:20
  but we're, we're living in Fiat reality.
• 1:18:24
  And, you know, I think just, it's going to take a lot more
• 1:18:27
  hard work from all of us to, to get, get the reality to push
• 1:18:31
  past that, that point of no return and, and get, get into a
• 1:18:36
  Bitcoin standard. So we'll get there.
• 1:18:38
  It's, it's a, it's a fun fight to, to be up against because I
• 1:18:41
  mean, at the end of the day here, here's, here's my core pet
• 1:18:43
  peeve, right? Inflation, just straight up, if
• 1:18:47
  you look at what inflation actually is, it's the theft of
• 1:18:50
  people's life force. What do I mean by that is people
• 1:18:53
  work, they put in their time, their energy and their
• 1:18:56
  intentionality to create value for other people.
• 1:19:00
  And that value gets stolen from them via inflation, right.
• 1:19:04
  So if if you're going to put your life force towards
• 1:19:06
  anything, to me, it's it's to go after slaying the biggest, the
• 1:19:11
  biggest dragon on the planet, right?
• 1:19:13
  Which is inflation and, and giving people back their life
• 1:19:18
  force and their time so that they can do it doing they can
• 1:19:21
  have it to do more creative pursuits.
• 1:19:23
  And I think humanity is a lot better by getting that done.
• 1:19:26
  So yeah. Does it stop to have AI walk
• 1:19:28
  into the room and flip the tables on something that you
• 1:19:30
  work so damn hard? Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:19:33
  But at the same time, I'm not going to change my direction to
• 1:19:35
  go fight an AI fight. Hell no, That's boring to me
• 1:19:38
  compared to separate money and state.
• 1:19:40
  Yeah, I I couldn't agree more. I'm I'm.
• 1:19:43
  Really not the biggest AI guy I I kind of think it's a little
• 1:19:47
  more overhyped than anything else, but if this is the benefit
• 1:19:52
  of AI, you know, energy abundance is like Bitcoin mining
• 1:19:56
  kind of just like the arguments against it go away.
• 1:20:00
  I'll take that I'll take that as AW.
• 1:20:02
  You know though, I think it. Might.
• 1:20:03
  Play out the opposite. I think you'll see you'll see
• 1:20:07
  the, you know, the, the FUD around energy use go down and
• 1:20:13
  the pro AI energy use go up. And then they're going to be
• 1:20:16
  like, but these Bitcoin miners are taking all the energy that
• 1:20:19
  AI needs and now they'll find just a new reason to, you know,
• 1:20:22
  fund Bitcoin. So I I wouldn't be surprised if
• 1:20:25
  that's the case anyways, and enough of me not liking AI that
• 1:20:29
  much. I do use AIA little bit guys.
• 1:20:31
  All right, so you know, I chat with the demon just like anyone
• 1:20:34
  else. All right, anyways, Kent, let's
• 1:20:37
  do one final plug of SAS mining before we run out.
• 1:20:42
  I do have here the website. So let's just do, you know, 2
• 1:20:46
  minute elevator pitch on SAS mining.
• 1:20:48
  If you guys like what Kent did on the show today, get in touch
• 1:20:52
  with him. Yeah, so for sure DMS. Are open
• 1:20:56
  at K Halliburton first letter last name on Twitter best way to
• 1:21:00
  reach me. So there there you go mine a
• 1:21:02
  Bitcoin today for 5050 thousand 958 cup bucks and you get those
• 1:21:09
  that's the energy cost average in that I was talking about
• 1:21:11
  earlier. So you go on our website, you
• 1:21:13
  choose a mining rig you we get it plugged in for you they're
• 1:21:17
  your Bitcoin. We don't make any money until
• 1:21:19
  you're receiving Bitcoin and we take 15%.
• 1:21:22
  So yes you've got to pay for the mining yes, you have to pay for
• 1:21:25
  the electricity, but those are cost pass through.
• 1:21:28
  We don't make money on those. Our newest offering is an S21
• 1:21:31
  plus about $3000 before import and set up fees $150.00 to run
• 1:21:38
  that 245,000 SAT's per month that is net.
• 1:21:43
  So that's after our management fee.
• 1:21:44
  So that is the value proposition directly.
• 1:21:47
  We'll get that up and going for you in three to six weeks, sort
• 1:21:52
  of depends on the frequency of the shipment from China.
• 1:21:55
  They go by air roughly once per week from China and depending on
• 1:21:59
  customs can be as short as three weeks before it gets plugged in.
• 1:22:03
  So we've increased our customer base just that I happen to see
• 1:22:06
  it in the chat coming through right now.
• 1:22:08
  We've got nearly 500 customers at this point in time and we
• 1:22:12
  continue to double. I'll be shocked if we don't end
• 1:22:14
  the year with over 1000 and most of our customers are repeat
• 1:22:18
  buyers because they like what we're doing.
• 1:22:20
  We're small, but you know, we punch above our weight class and
• 1:22:23
  we do the right thing over and over again.
• 1:22:25
  Our values, which is something we settled on just this last
• 1:22:28
  year after working hard at this is like, OK, what do we stand
• 1:22:30
  for as bitcoiners? Because all of us and you're all
• 1:22:33
  thirteen of us are all Bitcoiners and we decided we're
• 1:22:35
  fueled by passion. I mean, I think you guys here,
• 1:22:38
  I'm passionate about doing what I'm doing, but all of us and are
• 1:22:41
  Bitcoiners are passionate about what we're building and doing.
• 1:22:45
  We win the right way. So that just means we come at
• 1:22:47
  this with integrity. You know, we get into situations
• 1:22:50
  where, yeah, we make mistakes. We're human beings, but we
• 1:22:53
  approach it all those mistakes and try to solve it to the best
• 1:22:57
  of the benefit for customers that we possibly can.
• 1:23:00
  And then lastly, you know, we proof of work.
• 1:23:03
  We're meritocratic here. I don't care where the great
• 1:23:05
  ideas come from in our organization, we just want to
• 1:23:07
  win. So anyway, we got a different
• 1:23:09
  approach. Nobody else has pursued it with
• 1:23:12
  the angle that we have taking software and applying it to
• 1:23:15
  software as a service applied to data centers.
• 1:23:18
  But so far customers been pretty satisfied.
• 1:23:21
  Love it can actually one last question.
• 1:23:24
  I did kind of bring this up, but someone asked it on, Rumble
• 1:23:28
  shouts out the C-Suite and he goes.
• 1:23:30
  Are those costs all write offs in 2026 Kent?
• 1:23:34
  So maybe one last, yeah, one last plug.
• 1:23:37
  So the bonus? Depreciation yes, for our US
• 1:23:40
  based customers that get deployed in the US and we got we
• 1:23:43
  have data centers in the works that are not delivered to the
• 1:23:46
  market yet. But if you deploy your your
• 1:23:49
  hardware, if you're AUS citizen and you are deploying hardware
• 1:23:52
  in the US in this service here, you will get bonus depreciation
• 1:23:56
  meaning that you can write off the value of your equipment.
• 1:23:59
  Most of our US based customers, customers through their hardware
• 1:24:02
  and electricity into an LLC so they can take write offs on all
• 1:24:06
  of that. So that improves the value
• 1:24:08
  proposition. But anything you see displayed
• 1:24:10
  on our website does not include that because we have a global
• 1:24:13
  base actually. So about 60% of our clients are
• 1:24:17
  US based and about 40% are outside the US.
• 1:24:20
  And we get a lot of customers actually that are that love the
• 1:24:23
  wild SAT's angle, meaning they may have capital controls where
• 1:24:27
  they are and they want to get their hands on Bitcoin and
• 1:24:28
  struggle to, so they can do it by mining.
• 1:24:31
  And we have a lot of clients that are US based because we're
• 1:24:35
  US based companies. So it's really interesting to
• 1:24:37
  see where people are finding us from, but it's literally all
• 1:24:40
  over the front planet. Absolutely.
• 1:24:43
  Great question. C-Suite.
• 1:24:44
  All right, Kent, thank you so much for filling in today.
• 1:24:47
  I'd rather just being on the show hang out for a minute.
• 1:24:50
  Let me wrap up the show and I'll, I'll be there in one
• 1:24:54
  second. So Kent, thank you so much.
• 1:24:56
  Actually plug your Twitter again.
• 1:24:58
  I, I forget what your Twitter is, Kate, Kate Halliburton, just
• 1:25:01
  like my last name. So, yeah, thanks.
• 1:25:03
  Much for having me on here opti always have a blast chatting
• 1:25:06
  with you and and talking to your to your fans.
• 1:25:09
  You, you as well, man. Appreciate it.
• 1:25:11
  All right, guys. There you have it, the January
• 1:25:14
  6th, 2020. Yeah, I just clicked on Jan 6th,
• 1:25:18
  2026 show. All right, so like I said in the
• 1:25:22
  beginning of the show, Nico is most likely going to be out,
• 1:25:25
  which I'm sure very few you guys are mad about.
• 1:25:28
  I know he's been kind of bearish on you guys.
• 1:25:31
  So it's going to be me holding it down because Sophie is about
• 1:25:35
  to have their second child. So he's kind of on call right
• 1:25:39
  now. So I'm holding it down for you
• 1:25:41
  guys this week. I did talk to Luke this morning.
• 1:25:45
  I'm going to try to schedule with him.
• 1:25:47
  We'll get an Opti, Luke extremely bullish opium episode
• 1:25:51
  at some point this week. We have to kind of coordinate
• 1:25:54
  our schedules, but this week will be a little different, but
• 1:25:59
  we'll be back to the same stuff we always do next week.
• 1:26:02
  On that note, guys, we appreciate you and I will see
• 1:26:06
  you on tomorrow's episode. Peace out.
• 1:26:10
  Today's episode was brought to you by Bitcoin.
• 1:26:12
  Well.com, a Bitcoin only platform on a mission to enable
• 1:26:16
  financial independence.