Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Barbie doll left on tot-girl's grave offers clue in rape, murder of 6-year-old girl

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Barbie doll left on tot-girl's grave offers clue in rape, murder of 6-year-old girl · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: radio dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm hoping
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Speaker 1: the Lord will let me live until we find the
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Speaker 1: person who took my daughter Rosie Tapia was six years
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Speaker 1: old when she was kidnapped and sexually assaulted. Her body
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Speaker 1: was found several hours later in a canal off the
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Speaker 1: Jordan River. A few days after Rosie's passing, there was
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Speaker 1: items that were left on her graveside, so I just
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Speaker 1: gathered them up and took them home. One of those
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Speaker 1: items was a Barbie doll. Coalition members say they have
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Speaker 1: reasons to believe this may be a valuable clue, but
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Speaker 1: did not share what those were. It's a Sweethearts Barbie
1:51
Speaker 1: that was manufactured in nineteen ninety four. They did say
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Speaker 1: that two possible persons of interest had been identified who
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Speaker 1: had some fixation with Barbies, who left a vintage Barbie
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Speaker 1: doll on a six year old little girl's grave. An
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Speaker 1: unsolved attack and murder. I mean it. See Grace, this
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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. First
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Speaker 1: of all, before I go to John Limley, Crime online
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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. Also with me, doctor Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 1: and director of the Cold Case Research Institoot Cheryl McCollum.
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Speaker 1: To Daryl Cohen, veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, Daryl,
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Speaker 1: why can't some criminals help themselves. Who else would go
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Speaker 1: and leave a barbie doll on this baby's grave, a
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Speaker 1: little girl that was raped and murdered, and then some
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Speaker 1: pervy dude shows up and puts a barbie doll on
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Speaker 1: her grave. What's with your clients, Daryl Cohen? I mean,
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Speaker 1: it's just like going back to look at the scene
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Speaker 1: of the crime, or taunting a victim with hang up
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Speaker 1: calls on the phone after you attack, then somebody goes
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Speaker 1: back to her grave. To me, it's a desecration. Daryl, Well,
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Speaker 1: I agree, but Nancy, maybe be very clear. It's not
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Speaker 1: my client, and I don't like representing people like that.
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Speaker 1: But having said that, and Bethany is going to be,
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Speaker 1: oh wait, I'm sorry. You've never represented to day that
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Speaker 1: I don't like representing people like that. I clearly have
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Speaker 1: represented people charged with murder, some are actually guilty, some
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Speaker 1: are not. But why would they go back? They go
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Speaker 1: back because they're taunting. They have some in there's something
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Speaker 1: in their psychic This is really want to get caught,
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Speaker 1: and they're taunting the public. They're taunting law enforcement, trying
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Speaker 1: to show that I am actually smarter than they are,
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Speaker 1: I am bigger than they are, and they'll never catch me,
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Speaker 1: but they sort of want to be caught regardless because
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Speaker 1: they love the publicity. These are sick people. Well another thing, Daryl,
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Speaker 1: when a defendant, in this case, a child predator and
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Speaker 1: killer does that, it's like a fixation And I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: need a shrink on this, doctor Bethany Marshall. But Daryl Cohen,
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Speaker 1: the evidence that you can obtain from the Barbie doll.
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Speaker 1: I know it sounds crazy, but it's a vintage Barbie doll?
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Speaker 1: Who has one of those? I mean my sister had some.
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Speaker 1: But when I was a little cut all their heads off.
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Speaker 1: That was a scene. Let me tell you that when
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Speaker 1: she came home and all the heads were gone. But
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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, who has the vintage Barbie? Who would know
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Speaker 1: where the grave is? Who would go to the grave
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Speaker 1: and then keep it a secret? Like if this was
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Speaker 1: a little a friend from a family that knew her,
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Speaker 1: they would have told the victim's family, Oh, Susie wants
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Speaker 1: to go and put her doll on Rosie's grave. You
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Speaker 1: know when people leave items, sentimental items at grave sites.
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Speaker 1: But this was not someone the family knew, Daryl. No,
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Speaker 1: it sounds to me very much like someone who's taunting
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Speaker 1: someone who's going to leave his or her DNA on
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Speaker 1: that Barbie doll, someone that's giving a clue, even if
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Speaker 1: it's designed to throw people off. But absolutely, you're right.
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Speaker 1: I vintage Barbie doll number one is probably expensive number two.
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Speaker 1: It's showing that I know what's going on, and you
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Speaker 1: law enforcement or a bunch of idiots, but they're going
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Speaker 1: to find in all likelihood that law enforcements ultimately going
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Speaker 1: to find them. Loki. You know, it reminds me a
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Speaker 1: little bit off to Sheryl McCullin, director of the Coal
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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute. You know, at BTK buying torture and kill,
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Speaker 1: he would dress dolls up like his victims. Do you
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Speaker 1: remember that, Cheryl? Yeah, I do, indeed. And it's funny
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Speaker 1: you said that, because let me tell you what I
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Speaker 1: noticed about this Barbie doll. There's an injury at her neck.
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Speaker 1: There's a little hole right at her neck, and the
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Speaker 1: foot of the barbie doll looks like something had chewed
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Speaker 1: on it. In a way. The barbie is clean, the
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Speaker 1: bows are still in the hair, so it's not like
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Speaker 1: this doll has been out in the weather or found
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Speaker 1: in the yard after somebody was played with it and
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Speaker 1: discarded it. It looked like it was straight out of
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Speaker 1: the box new except for those two things that stuck
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Speaker 1: out to me. The other thing that we need to
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Speaker 1: keep in mind, Nancy, this was not a vintage of Barbie.
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Speaker 1: The Barbie doll was found in two thousand and five,
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Speaker 1: days after her funeral. Her mama found it. The Barbie
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Speaker 1: was done, you know, I think in nineteen ninety four
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Speaker 1: they said, so it was a new dollar. So it's
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Speaker 1: vintage now, but at the time it was a new doll.
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Speaker 1: That's significant. That's a significant fact. Who left a Barbie
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Speaker 1: doll on Rosy Tapy's grid? That's the big question. Investigators
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Speaker 1: are begging the public for information after a little six
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Speaker 1: year old Rosie was found raped and murdered. Utah Coal
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Speaker 1: Case Coalition has a rain for DNA evidence to be
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Speaker 1: gathered from the doll. That doll found on Rosie's grave
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Speaker 1: at Salt Lake City Cemetery after her burial. But back
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Speaker 1: to the crime itself, Let's go all the way back
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Speaker 1: to August thirteen. That year, somebody removed a screen from
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Speaker 1: the window on Rosie's family ground floor apartment and took
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Speaker 1: Rosie away her body found in a canal off the
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Speaker 1: Jordan River. To John Linley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. What happened Nancy. August
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Speaker 1: thirteenth was a Sunday, and it was in the wee
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Speaker 1: hours of the morning that louieen Tapia went into her
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Speaker 1: children's bedrooms to make sure they were all tucked in
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Speaker 1: and sleeping soundly. Louie first checked her twins, both boys
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Speaker 1: both sons, were sound asleep in their beds, so she
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Speaker 1: heads to her daughter, Rosie's room. At first, Luien thinks
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Speaker 1: her eyes are playing tricks on her, but she soon
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Speaker 1: realizes that no, her daughter is not in her bed.
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Speaker 1: Before Louien even has a chance to think of much
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Speaker 1: more logical explanations like she's gone to the bathroom or
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Speaker 1: snuck downstairs, she notices a couple of things that make
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Speaker 1: matters much much worse. Rosie's curtains are pulled back, the
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Speaker 1: blinds are tossed to the side, and the window is
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Speaker 1: wide open. Her daughter is gone, completely vanished. Daryl, you
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Speaker 1: heard the description of the room. What does that tell
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Speaker 1: you about the killer? Well, it tells me that the
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Speaker 1: killer knew that this child was in there. It tells
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Speaker 1: me the killer had a previous history of at least
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Speaker 1: viewing the child, whether it was a male or a female.
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Speaker 1: It tells me they knew when to come in because
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Speaker 1: the child would be sleeping, the family would be basically asleep,
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Speaker 1: and everything would be quiet. Would be very easy to
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Speaker 1: sneak in, grabbed this child and go. Tell me one
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Speaker 1: more time. John Lemley, Crime Online investigative reporter where this
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Speaker 1: and all other breaking crime and justice news can be found. John,
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Speaker 1: let me tell me again about the condition of the ram.
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Speaker 1: Of course, most importantly, Rosie is not in her bed,
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Speaker 1: She's gone. The curtains are pulled back, the blinds are
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Speaker 1: tossed to the side, and the window is left completely open.
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Speaker 1: To Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coal Case Research Institute, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: that tells me a lot. What about you, absolutely, Nincy,
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Speaker 1: This whole scene should tell you a lot. The fact
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Speaker 1: that the child was killed so quickly tells you a lot.
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Speaker 1: We all know in child a Dutching cases, when the
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Speaker 1: child is killed within three hours, it's normally a stranger,
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Speaker 1: and it's norly somebody that will attack and killing him
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Speaker 1: a new leading the Rosie Tapia murderer for twenty three years.
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Speaker 1: Her murder remains unsolved. The six year old was taken
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Speaker 1: from her home. Her body he later found near a
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Speaker 1: canal in Salt Lake City. But ABC force News has
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Speaker 1: learned of a tip that could help bring the family
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Speaker 1: justice after more than two decades. Behind every crime, there's
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Speaker 1: a story and the truth matters. Here's ABC four Senior
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Speaker 1: Crime and Punishment correspondent Marquis Ortiz with the Justice Files.
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Speaker 1: The tip comes from a man who wants to remain anonymous.
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Speaker 1: It's very surprising, even to the Luien top up. Rosie's
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Speaker 1: mother and the police find this credible. It could turn
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Speaker 1: this investigation in a whole new direction. It's the early
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Speaker 1: morning hours of August thirteenth, nineteen ninety five. A man
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Speaker 1: who wants to remain anonymous, is standing outside his home.
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Speaker 1: He saw a white pickup truck parked near the bridge
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Speaker 1: by the canal leave and as he did that, a
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Speaker 1: kid come walking down the sidewalk. And what I noticed
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Speaker 1: about him when he come under the light was the
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Speaker 1: he had on dNaM pants, but from about the knees
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Speaker 1: down they were dark are colored, and from the knees
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Speaker 1: up they weren't that dark. The man says, the team
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Speaker 1: came in his direction and got within three feet of him.
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Speaker 1: That's when he looked down at the sidewalk and when
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Speaker 1: he come walking by me, the sidewalk was wet, but
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Speaker 1: when he walked by me, I realized his pants were wet.
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Speaker 1: That is highly significant what happened to six year old
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Speaker 1: Rosie taken out of her home, horrifically assaulted her body.
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Speaker 1: Her tiny body found in a nearby canal. It's very
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Speaker 1: significant that a person was seen. A man was seen
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Speaker 1: nearby and his clothes were wet. To John Linley, Crime
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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, what about it? What do
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Speaker 1: we know about this tip? The tip that we were
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Speaker 1: just hearing from our friends at KTVXTV. It was Marcus
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Speaker 1: Ortiz speaking with a man who insisted he remained anonymous,
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Speaker 1: but that the day baby Rosie goes missing, he sees
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Speaker 1: a white pickup truck part near the bridge by that
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Speaker 1: very same canal. They're in Salt Lake City. He sees
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Speaker 1: the man in the pickup leaving and as he did that,
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Speaker 1: a guy walked by and the guy's pants were soaked.
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Speaker 1: John Limley, I feel like this case has gotten stalled somehow.
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Speaker 1: Who's working in the case. There is a new group
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Speaker 1: called the Utah Cold Case Coalition. They've held a press
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Speaker 1: conference recently and they're the ones that share the news
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Speaker 1: about that Barbie doll left at the grave site. The coalition,
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Speaker 1: by the way, made up of attorneys, private investigators, public
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Speaker 1: relations professionals, and other businesses. All of them are working
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Speaker 1: for free. Representatives from the group say that two possible
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Speaker 1: persons of interest have been identified who had some fixation
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Speaker 1: with Barbies. That doll again a Sweetheart Barbie manufactured in
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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. A new cutting edge DNA extraction method
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Speaker 1: is being used on the doll to try to identify
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Speaker 1: who it came from. Now, the group plans to wait
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Speaker 1: at least four to six weeks to move forward with
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Speaker 1: the analysis because they are working very closely and sort
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Speaker 1: of taking the lead from police on the investigation. Does
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Speaker 1: a Barbie Doll Sweetheart edition left on a grave of
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Speaker 1: six year old little rape and murder victim shed new
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Speaker 1: light on a cold case? To doctor Bethany Marshall, l
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Speaker 1: a psychoanalyst, a fixation on Barbie Dolls. I didn't know
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Speaker 1: that such a thing existed. Now I know that there's
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Speaker 1: a guy who has had multiple plastic surgeries I'm talking
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Speaker 1: thirty forty or more to make himself look like the
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Speaker 1: Kin doll. And there's a woman who has had a
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Speaker 1: number of surgeries to make herself look like the Barbie doll,
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Speaker 1: the classic Barbie. But what is that as there's got
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Speaker 1: to be a name for it, when you're obsessed with
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Speaker 1: Barbie dolls. Well, Nancy, I actually think it's pretty straightforward.
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Speaker 1: Paedophiles who are preoccupied with children are preoccupied with the
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Speaker 1: things of childhood, right, So not only is whoever abducted
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Speaker 1: poor little Rosie was he preoccupied with her? But probably
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Speaker 1: anything that reminded him of childhood, including dolls. Who plays
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Speaker 1: with Barbie dolls? Little girls? Who did he abduct a
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Speaker 1: little girl? This? You know what creeps me out most
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Speaker 1: about this? I was thinking about Jeffrey Dahmer, who was
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Speaker 1: fixated on his victims even after they were dead. Remember,
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Speaker 1: he was fixated on them even after they were in
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Speaker 1: a vat of acid and a pot of boiling water.
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Speaker 1: The fixation did not die. I once had a patient
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Speaker 1: who was molested by a priest. The priest started when
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Speaker 1: he was six or seven years old. It continued throughout adolescence.
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Speaker 1: That my patient finally stood up to the priest. When
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Speaker 1: he was twenty six years old, the priest still stalked
15:05
Speaker 1: and harassed him. It wasn't until the priest died that
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Speaker 1: he finally stopped thinking about my patients. So these preoccupations
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Speaker 1: can go on forever and in very strange and bizarre ways.
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Speaker 1: So I would in terms of trying to crack this case,
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Speaker 1: I would look at anybody in the community who has
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Speaker 1: a preoccupation on or a fixation with a child and
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Speaker 1: with the names of childhood, and I think that will
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Speaker 1: provide the richest clues. Well, believe it or not. To
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, obsession with Barbies as not as uncommon as
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Speaker 1: I thought it was before I started working this case.
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Speaker 1: There's one thirty three year old mail. He has very
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Speaker 1: minimalist decor in his home except for the three thousand
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Speaker 1: dolls he has up. But that guy has a professional
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Speaker 1: interest in toys because he's a consumer trend director of strategy.
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Speaker 1: Okay is Barbie collection began when he was just thirteen
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Speaker 1: and he bought the quote great shape Barbie in a
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Speaker 1: turquoise spandex gym outfit with striped leg warmers. I don't
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Speaker 1: know if you recall that one. I only had one Barbie.
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Speaker 1: I think I had a midge. I also killed them.
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Speaker 1: They didn't keep their heads very long. I just didn't
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Speaker 1: play with dolls that much. I don't know what that says.
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Speaker 1: I'm afraid to actually ask doctor Bethany, so i'll I'll
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Speaker 1: just let that sleeping dog lie. But Cheryl McCollum, the
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Speaker 1: obsession with barbies, which I thought was extremely obscure, Apparently
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Speaker 1: there's more of them out there than I knew about. Cheryls.
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Speaker 1: I can't agree with doctor Marshall anymore. She is absolutely
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Speaker 1: on the money, and I'm gonna disagree with mister Cohen
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Speaker 1: or something. Predators, sexual predators of children go back to
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Speaker 1: the Crown scene to relive those memories. They enjoy it,
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Speaker 1: just like me. And you make drive past the old
17:16
Speaker 1: high school and reminisce about the old stadium and things
17:19
Speaker 1: like that. They're gonna. I never do that. I never
17:23
Speaker 1: do that. Ever. Occasionally, when we're in making we drive
17:27
Speaker 1: by my old high school. The Dwins go. Isn't that
17:30
Speaker 1: where you went to my high school? I'm like, yeah,
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Speaker 1: it was awesome, and I keep going, I mean, I
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Speaker 1: know I don't do that that much. And what does
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Speaker 1: that mean, doctor Bethany, While I've got a shrink, I
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Speaker 1: just don't think back on it that much. Well, it
17:44
Speaker 1: depends on whether or not you were fond of those memories, right,
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Speaker 1: I think there were great memories. I don't have bad memories.
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Speaker 1: I'm just right now. You have a rich, full life.
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Speaker 1: You do not need to go backwards in time. Is
17:56
Speaker 1: that what you create? Meaning? But soo Cheryl's crap. I
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Speaker 1: think that it's not that his perpetrator is taunting the police.
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Speaker 1: He's still fixated on this little girl and he is
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Speaker 1: reliving the crime. This was the glory day. This was
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Speaker 1: the moment of glory where he actually broke into her room,
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Speaker 1: snatched her, and had his way with her. And in
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Speaker 1: the absence of having access to more victims, he's going
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Speaker 1: to keep thinking about it, fantasizing about it. It's probably
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Speaker 1: a part of a masturbatory routine. He probably has pictures
18:33
Speaker 1: of pornography on his computer. This is how this man
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Speaker 1: or woman, but most likely man, lives his life in
18:39
Speaker 1: a fantasy world. Guys, we are talking about a six
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Speaker 1: year old little girl, Rosie Tapia taken out of her home,
18:47
Speaker 1: her room in disarray. Nobody heard anything that is not uncommon, And,
18:53
Speaker 1: as Cheryl McCollum was stating earlier, if it's a stranger
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Speaker 1: on child abduction, typically over seventy percent of the time
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Speaker 1: that child is dead in the first three hours, that
19:04
Speaker 1: stat jumps up into the eighties. At the end of
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Speaker 1: twenty four hours, Rosie was found dead, having been raped,
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Speaker 1: her body just thrown into a canal, a body of water.
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Speaker 1: We want answers. We now learn that someone places a
19:27
Speaker 1: Barbie doll on her grave. I want to know who? Hi?
19:41
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19:49
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19:55
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20:48
Speaker 1: the truth crime stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome to the
21:00
Speaker 1: home of Stanley Colright, whose collection of more than two
21:03
Speaker 1: thousand Barbie dolls fills up four whole rooms. Stanley, also
21:10
Speaker 1: known as the Barbie Man, has been building his incredible
21:12
Speaker 1: collection for sixteen years, and now it's thought to be
21:15
Speaker 1: worth a staggering eighty thousand dollars. Hi. I'm Stanley Colright,
21:22
Speaker 1: and welcome to my Barbie collection. Stanley Scal's websites in
21:27
Speaker 1: the yard sales to build his collections, spending up to
21:29
Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars per year. This is where all the
21:33
Speaker 1: dolls are held in the wonderful museum. There's two thousand
21:38
Speaker 1: Barbies in this room alone. This is the very first
21:42
Speaker 1: Barbie that I purchase is the nineteen ninety two Happy holiday, Barbie.
21:47
Speaker 1: You are hearing quote I'm addicted to Barbie on Barcraft
21:51
Speaker 1: TV on YouTube. Now, let me make clear that that
21:55
Speaker 1: guy showing us a tour of his Barbie mansion is
21:59
Speaker 1: in no way connected to the Rosy Tapia murder. But
22:03
Speaker 1: what I'm telling you is that there is a fixation
22:07
Speaker 1: on Barbies. You don't believe me. Listen to this. People
22:11
Speaker 1: first come to my place, they just third snapchatting, They
22:18
Speaker 1: just got ah, my god, can I take a picture.
22:23
Speaker 1: My name is Azusa, I'm thirty five years old. I'm
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Speaker 1: obsessed with Barbie. I could go on and on and
22:31
Speaker 1: on with people obsessed with Barbies. To doctor Bethany Marshall,
22:35
Speaker 1: la Psychoana's boy, do I need a shrink? I mean
22:38
Speaker 1: to me, that just sounds like people with too much
22:40
Speaker 1: time on their hands. But I guess the way. I'm
22:44
Speaker 1: obsessed with my twins, my children obsessed with you know.
22:49
Speaker 1: Are their clothes ironed? Is there room clean? Have they
22:53
Speaker 1: finished their homework? Are they handing this assignment in on time?
22:56
Speaker 1: Have they hot had five servings of fruit and vegetables today?
23:00
Speaker 1: Are they getting enough sleep? Have they had this physical checkup?
23:04
Speaker 1: Blah blah, blah, what about piano? What about band? What
23:08
Speaker 1: about I mean, my head's about to blow up. So
23:11
Speaker 1: some would call that an obsession. I guess everybody has
23:16
Speaker 1: something dear to their heart, so I'm not knocking it
23:20
Speaker 1: when they say they have identified two people obsessed with barbies.
23:26
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly a lot of people are obsessed with barbies.
23:30
Speaker 1: I just steal. I keep asking you, Bethany, and you're
23:32
Speaker 1: not really giving me a satisfactory So what is it
23:35
Speaker 1: when people are obsessed with dolls? I would not use
23:38
Speaker 1: the word obsession. I would use the word fetish. The
23:41
Speaker 1: dolls are fetishized. So when somebody has a fetish, like
23:45
Speaker 1: an interest in like a foot, a whip, a chain,
23:48
Speaker 1: a doll, something that other than a full human relationship,
23:52
Speaker 1: it's because that doll, that foot, that object of some
23:57
Speaker 1: emotional or sexual preoccupation, cannot talk back, cannot put you down,
24:03
Speaker 1: cannot degrade you. You have complete control, power, and dominion
24:08
Speaker 1: over that object. A story comes to mind recently of
24:11
Speaker 1: a woman I heard in the news who was preoccupied
24:14
Speaker 1: with collecting dolls of all sorts, but she alienated her
24:18
Speaker 1: own adult daughter because she was uninterested in her daughter.
24:22
Speaker 1: So she was more interested in the things over whom
24:25
Speaker 1: over which she could have control and wouldn't talk back
24:29
Speaker 1: to her, than a real human being, her own child,
24:32
Speaker 1: who had her own personality. And then there was a
24:35
Speaker 1: story twin trending on Twitter a couple months ago, a
24:38
Speaker 1: Japanese man who fell in love with a hologram. And
24:43
Speaker 1: so it was this little girl in a glass bubble,
24:46
Speaker 1: a hologram who looked like a Barbie doll. She had
24:48
Speaker 1: a nipped in waist, big breath, you know, pigtails, big
24:53
Speaker 1: blonde hair. And he had a whole wedding and he
24:57
Speaker 1: carried this, this little hologram and a glass bubb will
25:00
Speaker 1: down the aisle and he called himself that he had
25:03
Speaker 1: what's called digital sexuality, that his sexual interest was in
25:10
Speaker 1: the digital realm, not in the realm of real people.
25:13
Speaker 1: So when you think of people who are preoccupied with
25:17
Speaker 1: Barbie dolls, they only want something that is inhuman, cannot
25:22
Speaker 1: stand up to them, cannot talk back, cannot make them
25:25
Speaker 1: feel bad about themselves, and something over which they have
25:28
Speaker 1: complete power and control. Question, it is possible that a
25:34
Speaker 1: grown adult can be obsessed with dolls for many reasons.
25:38
Speaker 1: It could be a hobby. Why, you know, repairing them,
25:42
Speaker 1: restoring them, repainting their features. Another reason history collectors of
25:50
Speaker 1: dolls love history and historic dolls, fashion, sewing and costuming, nostalgia,
26:00
Speaker 1: therapeutic value. I understand dolls can sue psychological needs or voids.
26:06
Speaker 1: People decorate with dolls, parters, celebrity worship, for instance, if
26:13
Speaker 1: the doll is a celebrity doll. I don't see any
26:16
Speaker 1: of those fitting this scenario. Cheryl McCollum. We've got to
26:21
Speaker 1: retrace that crime scene, Cheryl. Yes, this particular barbie, Nancy
26:26
Speaker 1: is not what you're describing. It's not one of the
26:28
Speaker 1: barbies that had a Bob Mackie out that owned. It's
26:30
Speaker 1: not a holiday barbie. This is not a collector's item.
26:35
Speaker 1: There were other items left at the crime scene along
26:38
Speaker 1: with this barbie. Whether it was clothing or other toys
26:42
Speaker 1: or candy, we don't know, but that might be also
26:45
Speaker 1: a hint. I think we're getting down a rabbit hole
26:48
Speaker 1: with this barbie. I don't think she holds all the
26:50
Speaker 1: key everybody thinks they do. If this barbie potentially had
26:54
Speaker 1: the killer's DNA, the police would be using the imbat
26:58
Speaker 1: on that doll. The police starts and even this group
27:01
Speaker 1: says we're gonna wait six weeks because the chance is
27:04
Speaker 1: so expensive. This is not going to change this case.
27:10
Speaker 1: I don't believe people visit. Okay, let's shift away from that.
27:14
Speaker 1: Let's shift off Barbie and back onto the crime scene.
27:17
Speaker 1: Back to John Linley crime online dot Com investigative reporter.
27:21
Speaker 1: Is it true that her brother and sister slept in
27:24
Speaker 1: the same room with her? And what time do we
27:26
Speaker 1: think the kidnap occurred. The kidnapping we think took place
27:31
Speaker 1: between one am and four am on Sunday, August thirteenth
27:37
Speaker 1: of that year. It's interesting to note that the night
27:41
Speaker 1: before this is August twelfth, sometime between seven and eight pm,
27:46
Speaker 1: eighteen year old Amelia Tapia looks out her family's apartment
27:50
Speaker 1: window and sees a man carrying her little sister, Rosie.
27:55
Speaker 1: Amelia runs right out, opens the door, grabs Rosie. The
28:00
Speaker 1: man is wearing sunglasses and a hat. He tells Amelia
28:04
Speaker 1: that Rosie had been hurt while playing on the slide,
28:07
Speaker 1: maybe even kicked in the back. Amelia says thank you,
28:11
Speaker 1: shuts the door, and immediately starts checking Rosie out. Amelia
28:15
Speaker 1: lifts Rosie's shirt, asks where she's been hurt. Rosie says,
28:19
Speaker 1: I didn't get hurt. It dawns on Amelia that the
28:23
Speaker 1: man actually called Rosie by name, so she asked Rosie,
28:28
Speaker 1: how in the world did this man you know who
28:31
Speaker 1: she was? And she said, I don't know. The Topia
28:35
Speaker 1: children went to bed between nine and nine thirty according
28:38
Speaker 1: to their mother that night, and again sometime between one
28:42
Speaker 1: and four am, someone abducted Rosie through that bedroom. I mean,
28:47
Speaker 1: that can't be just a coincidence. Cheryl McCollum. It's got
28:49
Speaker 1: to be the same guy. Now, we're only something. That's
28:52
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Not only does it fit the
28:54
Speaker 1: same description, but her brother the killer sool doing and
28:59
Speaker 1: told him go back to bed, and the brother later
29:02
Speaker 1: did the composite drawing of the person that is the
29:06
Speaker 1: same look of the person the mother spoke to. Not
29:09
Speaker 1: only did the person know the child's name, he knew
29:13
Speaker 1: where she lived, and he was hanging out at a playground.
29:18
Speaker 1: If that doesn't sound like a pedophile, I don't know
29:21
Speaker 1: what DA take a Listen to our friends at KTV XTV.
29:24
Speaker 1: It's been hard these twenty one years. It's been really hard.
29:28
Speaker 1: Now Salt Lake police learned of a possible lead reviewing
29:32
Speaker 1: old notes. They've also found new information and are seeking
29:36
Speaker 1: help and locating three men that may or may not
29:39
Speaker 1: be connected to the crime. We have got a statement
29:43
Speaker 1: of a suspicious individual that actually was seen by our
29:49
Speaker 1: witness on one of the local television channel stations being interviewed.
29:55
Speaker 1: They're now requesting all news media video of that time
29:58
Speaker 1: period to show their witness Police also want to talk
30:02
Speaker 1: to an African American man who police say was throwing
30:05
Speaker 1: garbage out at three in the morning. The family hired
30:08
Speaker 1: a private investigator who now gave police the name of
30:11
Speaker 1: a person who they claim resembles the composite released years ago.
30:16
Speaker 1: That one and the picture that they have at this guy,
30:21
Speaker 1: they look familiar, so that's why they got their attention
30:26
Speaker 1: on that right now. The family has had their hopes
30:29
Speaker 1: dashed before whenever there's a new development, but Rosie's mom
30:33
Speaker 1: says she's willing to write it out. So it does
30:36
Speaker 1: have set me sometimes because I want her case solved
30:41
Speaker 1: and I'm hoping one day this will be solved. They're
30:46
Speaker 1: following this up with additional statements and interviews of the
30:52
Speaker 1: victims and also witnesses because it's becoming warm a larger
30:58
Speaker 1: investigation than maybe it was initially one of the avenues
31:02
Speaker 1: under investigation. Reports the demand was seen hanging around the
31:06
Speaker 1: apartment playground a man who carried Rosie home Saturday after
31:10
Speaker 1: she fell off the slide. She said, that guy was
31:13
Speaker 1: sitting on the bench, is just watching the kids? Why
31:17
Speaker 1: wait to guy just watch the kids? If he didn't
31:19
Speaker 1: handle kids, he's probably seen who's gonna hit next. You
31:25
Speaker 1: are hearing our friends at KSL TV. Why would a
31:28
Speaker 1: guy just be sitting on a bench watching children if
31:31
Speaker 1: they weren't one of his children. It reminds me doctor Bethany.
31:34
Speaker 1: There's a whole world out there I knew nothing about
31:37
Speaker 1: until I had the twins. The subculture of play Day
31:41
Speaker 1: said play activities and play spots. For instance, when I
31:46
Speaker 1: would take the children to Lego before John David got
31:48
Speaker 1: too tall to get on the rides. You know the
31:51
Speaker 1: kinds that are in malls. They don't let adults that
31:56
Speaker 1: are without children come in. They can't come in. You
31:59
Speaker 1: have to have a wristband and you have to be
32:02
Speaker 1: attached to children. And children can't go onto various rides
32:07
Speaker 1: or in playpians without the consent of their guardian with them.
32:12
Speaker 1: They don't let single like creepy males by themselves wander
32:18
Speaker 1: around in there. And there's a reason for that. What
32:21
Speaker 1: this woman is saying is right. Why would a guy
32:25
Speaker 1: just be sitting on a bench watching children like a
32:29
Speaker 1: cat watching a mouse if they don't have a child
32:32
Speaker 1: out there playing. You know, Unfortunately, Nancy, the types of
32:36
Speaker 1: protections you're talking about in the mall or at legoland,
32:41
Speaker 1: there are no such protections in public parks or at
32:45
Speaker 1: bus stops. And you know, just as a fisherman goes
32:48
Speaker 1: to a stream, pedophiles go to parks. Pedophiles go to schools,
32:52
Speaker 1: and we cannot stop them. And this follows such a
32:55
Speaker 1: classic pattern of the pedophiles sitting on the bench looking
33:00
Speaker 1: get the children, just like a hunter looked out at
33:02
Speaker 1: the savannah, waiting for the child that can be picked
33:06
Speaker 1: off and separated from her family. He felt he had
33:10
Speaker 1: a special and unique relationship with her. You know, he
33:13
Speaker 1: returned her back to the family, if I understand the
33:17
Speaker 1: story correctly. Before then he took her, kidnapped her, abducted her,
33:23
Speaker 1: and killed her. So his fantasy fixation with her was
33:27
Speaker 1: going on for a long time before he worked up
33:30
Speaker 1: the courage to commit the crime. You know another issue
33:33
Speaker 1: if you look at the statement Cheryl, I don't know
33:35
Speaker 1: how this taste got so twisted up. The brother Robert,
33:40
Speaker 1: who was only four at the time when Rosie was abducted,
33:42
Speaker 1: raped and murdered, says he saw a man he didn't
33:46
Speaker 1: know in their room that night. The man had a
33:48
Speaker 1: beard and told him to go back to sleep. Let's
33:53
Speaker 1: go back to the guy at the part first. So Nancy,
33:56
Speaker 1: he invented a reason to take the child up, carry her.
34:01
Speaker 1: So he's like hugging her, talking to her. No again,
34:05
Speaker 1: knows where she lives, so he has invented a reason
34:09
Speaker 1: because she was not her, to touch her, to caress her,
34:13
Speaker 1: to hold her. That's very disturbing. At that point, I
34:19
Speaker 1: think is when he made his mind up he was
34:21
Speaker 1: going to kidnapp in a cross room. John Limley Crime
34:24
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter. It seems to me this
34:28
Speaker 1: whole case was screwed up and botched at the beginning.
34:33
Speaker 1: You've got a six year old little girl, Rosie, taken
34:36
Speaker 1: out of her room, raped and murdered, her body just
34:39
Speaker 1: thrown into a canal. You've got a guy watching her
34:44
Speaker 1: on the playground that day actually picking her up. As
34:49
Speaker 1: Cheryl said, you've got the little brother giving a description
34:53
Speaker 1: of a man in his room that night, but they
34:56
Speaker 1: don't have anybody. If she was raped, there's got to
34:59
Speaker 1: be DNA. Have they run it back through the lab
35:05
Speaker 1: with heightened DNA technology? I mean, how did this case
35:09
Speaker 1: go so wrong? John Lemley. Another example is the man
35:13
Speaker 1: who we heard at the outset of the program who
35:16
Speaker 1: saw this young man with wet jeans. He went to
35:21
Speaker 1: the police station a few years later to describe this
35:25
Speaker 1: after he saw something on TV about what happened that night,
35:29
Speaker 1: and he was trying to help assist in creating a
35:34
Speaker 1: composite of the fellow's face that he saw, and the
35:38
Speaker 1: policeman kept giving him options that were too old. They were,
35:44
Speaker 1: in his words, hardened criminal looking faces. And he said, no,
35:48
Speaker 1: this was a younger person, this was a teenager. And
35:52
Speaker 1: finally he just got up and left because the police
35:55
Speaker 1: were having no part of that. They did not believe
35:58
Speaker 1: it was a teenager. Another thing you do know, Cheryl McCollum,
36:01
Speaker 1: that the little brother, then four, was not asked to
36:04
Speaker 1: give a composite sketch until years later. Years. It's it's
36:10
Speaker 1: baffling Nancy. I think the brother and this witness need
36:15
Speaker 1: to get together and work on the composite with the
36:18
Speaker 1: same artists, not at the same time, but with the
36:21
Speaker 1: same artists is critical and at this point they need
36:24
Speaker 1: to take that composite and they need to make an
36:27
Speaker 1: age progression. What does he possibly look like? Now, take
36:31
Speaker 1: a listen. We do know, according to this KSLTV reporter,
36:35
Speaker 1: that search dogs were brought into the area, but what
36:38
Speaker 1: do they find around Dave PM authorities brought in a
36:41
Speaker 1: team of bloodhounds to try and track down where Rosie
36:44
Speaker 1: went into the canal. Police suspect the child knew her abductor,
36:47
Speaker 1: and right now there are a few suspects, but very
36:50
Speaker 1: little to go on. A neighbor who lived two floors
36:53
Speaker 1: above Rosie's window reported hearing a scream yesterday morning, and
36:56
Speaker 1: other neighbors say a strange man had brought the girl
36:59
Speaker 1: home from this playground Saturday night after she fell. I
37:02
Speaker 1: don't believe it's somebody we know. Hopefully it's not, because
37:07
Speaker 1: it'd be even more devastated to know that Rosie's death
37:11
Speaker 1: comes one week after this woman's daughter was abducted and
37:14
Speaker 1: raped from the same apartment complex. This woman says the
37:17
Speaker 1: property managers told her to keep it quiet. No, right now,
37:21
Speaker 1: our main concerns our security. If we're going to have
37:23
Speaker 1: to live here, I think there should be better either
37:25
Speaker 1: either better security or more security. Security is now everyone's concerned,
37:32
Speaker 1: But for Rosie's family, the priority is getting the killer
37:35
Speaker 1: in custody. For somebody to do this, he had to
37:38
Speaker 1: have a sick miner, very sick mind to do something
37:41
Speaker 1: like this to a six year old girl. Well, John Lemley,
37:44
Speaker 1: did you think about telling me another little girl had
37:46
Speaker 1: just been kidnapped and raped in the same apartment complex
37:50
Speaker 1: and building. That was One of the things that really
37:53
Speaker 1: should have maybe prevented this in the first place, is
37:58
Speaker 1: heightened security after that first event just several days. Hey, hey, hey, hey,
38:03
Speaker 1: I'm not playing what a could have shotted, John Linley,
38:05
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum, that's the person. That is the person. You
38:09
Speaker 1: don't have two kidnaps and rapes of two little girls
38:13
Speaker 1: approximately the same age and the same apartment building within
38:18
Speaker 1: ten days of each other and it not be the
38:21
Speaker 1: same person. They just decided to kill Rosie so they
38:24
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave behind the witness You and I've said before,
38:27
Speaker 1: if we can get within ten miles of a similar transaction,
38:30
Speaker 1: we'd like it within a mile. I can guarantee it's
38:34
Speaker 1: the same person within the same apartment complex. Good Mortal Manti,
38:38
Speaker 1: come home. There's no excuse in this person's face not
38:43
Speaker 1: being everywhere. Take a listen to our friends at k SLTV.
38:47
Speaker 1: But we knew that it wasn't. We knew that Rosie
38:50
Speaker 1: wentn't just climb out of the window at that late
38:53
Speaker 1: at night and just leave and go throw herself in
38:57
Speaker 1: the river. We know sheho but to do that. Rosie
39:01
Speaker 1: Toppy's sister and family never believed her drowning was accidental.
39:05
Speaker 1: Her mother discovered Rosie missing just before six am Sunday,
39:09
Speaker 1: the window of her bedroom open, screen removed. Now. Autopsy
39:13
Speaker 1: results revealed Rosie was probably sexually assaulted before drowning in
39:17
Speaker 1: the Jordan River canal, where her body was discovered by
39:20
Speaker 1: a jogger. It's just so sad because somebody could be
39:24
Speaker 1: so sick to take a baby from her bloom, from
39:28
Speaker 1: her security, and do such a run thing to her.
39:36
Speaker 1: What are we supposed to do? Keep our kids locked up,
39:39
Speaker 1: our windows locked, our doors locked, put bars on our
39:43
Speaker 1: window to keep our kids from being stolen and tossed
39:48
Speaker 1: in a river. If you have information, tipline is anonymous.
39:53
Speaker 1: Three eight five two five eight three three one three.
39:56
Speaker 1: That's three eight five two eight five three three one
40:02
Speaker 1: three Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, goodbye friend,