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The Joyride: Amelia and Eleanor's Excellent Adventure · Operation Midnight Climax

• 0:33
  Speaker 1: A secret society, a suspicious death, an elite New England
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• 1:04
  Speaker 2: The food was notoriously bad in FDR's White House. After all,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: it was the Great Depression when his presidency began, and
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: one of First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt's tasks was to economize
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: the kitchen. Suddenly, White House china was being used to
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: serve gelatin salads. Prune pudding was another common menu item.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Eleanor even encouraged the housekeeper to use milk orno, a
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: lab-made powder aptly named for its ingredients of dried skim
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: milk and cornmeal. Visitors who had joined the Roosevelts for
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: a meal sometimes shared a word to the wise, eat
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: before you arrive. Ernest Hemingway even sent a letter after
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: he dined in the White House detailing the worst meal
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: of his life.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: He wrote.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: We had a rainwater soup followed by rubber squab, a
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: nice wilted salad, and a cake some admirer had sent in.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: An enthusiastic but unskilled admirer. Perhaps while digesting post-meal, it
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: must have clicked for Hemingway why his companion that evening
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: had scarfed down a few sandwiches on the way over.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: So maybe it was yet another dreary menu that had
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: diners itching to get away from the table on April 20th, 1933.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: The guests that evening included the First Lady's brother, and
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: a couple big shots in the aviation industry, an airline
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: president as well as the soon-to-be leader of government work
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: on aeronautics. FDR himself was out of town, but there
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: was one more influential figure sitting at the table, subjected
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: to rubbery meat and whatever a combination salad is. It
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: was Amelia Earhart. She was as big a celebrity as
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: any in 1933, admired most for her daring solo flight
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: across the Atlantic Ocean the year before. So maybe it
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: was the thrill of sitting next to a world record
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: breaker that made the others eager to abandon their plates
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: for something more audacious. Whatever the reason, Amelia delivered on
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: giving them the ultimate excuse to leave the table. She
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: was going to take them all on a joyride. Amelia, Eleanor,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: and the rest of the party drove to the local airport.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: They climbed aboard an Eastern Air Transport twin-engine Curtis Condor.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: It looked how you might imagine an old-timey plane looks,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: with two wings stacked on top of each other. only
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: big enough to fit a dozen or so people. These
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: passengers were part of an elite group. In the early 30s,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: practically no Americans had ever even set foot in a plane.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Now in the air and looking down, they could see
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the Washington Monument and the White House lit up against
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: the dark sky. It was absolutely magical. They flew to
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Baltimore and back. Amelia steered the plane. Eleanor was in
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: the control cabin with her where she said she felt, quote,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: on top of the world with an unobstructed view. Another
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: newspaper quoted Mrs. Roosevelt as saying, it does mark an epoch,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: doesn't it, when a girl in an evening dress and
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: slippers can pilot a plane at night. The two women
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: looked picture perfect still in their dinner party attire. They
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: were wearing long gowns and evening wraps. Eleanor was in
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a hat. Amelia had white gloves on. This was the
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: pinnacle of glamour and excitement, a spectacle heightened by the
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: depression the country was facing. It wasn't every day that
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: the First Lady and the First Lady of the Air
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: just hopped in an airplane. This was an adventure for
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: the ages. The event was first documented in the papers
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: and newsreels, and now it's written into books and strewn
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: across the internet. The story is often recounted as an impulsive,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: spur-of-the-moment decision to sneak away from dinner and take a
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: wild ride. But today's episode isn't about being caught up
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: in the moment. It's actually about being calculated. Because Eleanor
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: and Amelia's flight of fancy may have just been a
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: PR stunt. Welcome to Very Special Episodes, an iHeart original podcast.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Dana Schwartz, and this is The Joy Ride.
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: Welcome back to Very Special Episodes. I'm Jason English. Very lucky,
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: as always, to be here with Dana Schwartz and Zarin Burnett.
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: Hey, what's up, guys?
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: Hey, hey.
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: What up, Dana?
• 6:12
  Speaker 6: What up, Jason?
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: This one, I have to say, is very, very special
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: for me because in third grade, I don't want to brag,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: but I did play Eleanor Roosevelt in our school's interactive
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: wax museum.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: So I feel a particular kinship to this episode.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: So we've got casting already. We don't have to do
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: that later. You could play all the parts.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I'll reprise my role. The so-called night flight that Eleanor
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: and Amelia took, it was so swanky, so spirited. From
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: the outside looking in, it really seemed to be a joyride, a.
• 6:51
  Speaker 7: Skylark, a wonderful adventure.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Susan Ware studies 20th century U.S. history and women's biography.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: She knows a lot about Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart.
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: They are kind of hard to miss in 20th century
• 7:08
  Speaker 7: American history.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: They knew it, too. And standing by the plane's door
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: on that 1933 spring evening, Eleanor and Amelia made it
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: clear to the press that they were embarking on something special.
• 7:22
  Speaker 8: Mrs.
• 7:23
  Speaker 9: Rostrop, won't you go.
• 7:24
  Speaker 8: For a ride tonight over Washington? It's really lovely from
• 7:27
  Speaker 8: the air at night. I'd be very glad to go
• 7:30
  Speaker 8: for a ride over Washington.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: I like going at night and seeing the night very much.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: In this clip, they're already on the tarmac, ready to go.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: But they're talking as if their decision to take the
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: flight is being made right there, right then. A little
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: feigned surprise never hurt anyone, right? But for the record...
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: It can't have been.
• 7:51
  Speaker 7: totally spontaneous because you just don't leave the White House
• 7:56
  Speaker 7: and go to an airport and commandeer a plane.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Susan's right. Amelia had arranged a plane before they left
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: the White House. Press was notified and gathered to see
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: them take off. There were even journalists on board. And
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: if we're getting technical about things, Amelia was in control
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: of the plane for part of the flight, but not
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: the whole time. a male pilot took off and landed
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: the plane, probably for legal reasons. That didn't take away
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: from the triumph of this event, but it did mean
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: that it wasn't low-key. But really, almost nothing these women
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: did was low-key. It really can't be overstated how famous
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: they were.
• 8:41
  Speaker 7: Well, I think this is the first time I've ever
• 8:44
  Speaker 7: been asked to compare Amelia Earhart to Taylor Swift. But
• 8:49
  Speaker 7: there is a way in which both of these women
• 8:52
  Speaker 7: are figures that everybody knows about. And I think it's
• 8:57
  Speaker 7: at that level, the kind of Oprah Winfrey, Taylor Swift,
• 9:01
  Speaker 7: it's up there in the stratosphere.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: In 1928, Amelia was the first woman to cross the
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Atlantic in a plane called Friendship. The flight turned her
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: into an overnight celebrity. After it, she needed four secretaries
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: to deal with all the fan mail she received. But
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Amelia wasn't actually the pilot on the friendship. She was
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: just a passenger, which she compared to feeling like a, quote,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: sack of potatoes. So a few years later, in 1932,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: she made the trip on her own.
• 9:38
  Speaker 10: Four years ago, I was here after the friendship.
• 9:41
  Speaker 8: This time, I tried to justify that flight by going alone.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: This trek made her the second person ever and the
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: first woman to fly across the Atlantic solo. It took
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: nearly 15 hours. Just her and a single engine.
• 9:58
  Speaker 7: Not even two engines in case one goes out. We
• 10:01
  Speaker 7: all know that she disappeared on her last flight trying
• 10:05
  Speaker 7: to do a round-the-world flight in 1937. And so in
• 10:08
  Speaker 7: many ways, that's people's image of Amelia Earhart. But I
• 10:11
  Speaker 7: think if that hadn't happened, what we would remember her
• 10:15
  Speaker 7: for is this 1932 flight.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: It's true. After this solo flight, the public became enamored
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: by her. People wanted to know everything, even the mundane
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: details of the journeys she took.
• 10:28
  Speaker 8: What did you carry on the trip?
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: You mean to eat?
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, to eat and drink.
• 10:33
  Speaker 8: Well, I carried some water, of course, because my cockpit
• 10:36
  Speaker 8: is very warm. And I carried a sandwich in case.
• 10:41
  Speaker 8: I didn't eat it, though. I carried some hot chocolate
• 10:44
  Speaker 8: and the old reliable tomato juice.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: What kind of a sandwich was it?
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Amelia's fame was reaching new heights, and the Roosevelts were
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: ascending to new levels of power, too. As the world
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: opened up before these women, they eventually crossed paths. And
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: they really hit it off. They became friends.
• 11:11
  Speaker 7: They were like kindred spirits, and they maintained that really
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: for the rest of the while Amelia Earhart was still alive,
• 11:21
  Speaker 7: she was always connecting with Eleanor Roosevelt. Eleanor Roosevelt would
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: also mention Amelia Earhart. There was this kind of reciprocity
• 11:29
  Speaker 7: that wasn't false or forced.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: This friendship carried into the Roosevelt transition from the New
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: York governor's mansion to the White House. Initially, Eleanor was
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: reluctant about taking on the role of First Lady. As
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: she later reflected, quote, I knew what traditionally should lie
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: before me, and I cannot say that I was pleased
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: at the prospect. The turmoil in my heart and mind
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: was rather great.
• 11:58
  Speaker 7: I think she was very concerned that it might clip
• 12:02
  Speaker 7: her wings, to use a nice aviation metaphor, and that
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: she wouldn't be able to be the free person that
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: she was and she might get trapped in this role.
• 12:12
  Speaker 7: of First Lady. Well, we know that didn't happen, and she,
• 12:15
  Speaker 7: in fact, expanded the role dramatically.
• 12:23
  Speaker 11: March 1933. Eleanor Roosevelt is swept up in the whirlwind
• 12:28
  Speaker 11: of activity surrounding the first days of Franklin Roosevelt's administration.
• 12:33
  Speaker 11: From the very beginning, Mrs. Roosevelt makes it clear that
• 12:36
  Speaker 11: she intends to be more than a mere ornament on
• 12:38
  Speaker 11: the White House reception line. She is sent on a
• 12:42
  Speaker 11: tour of the country by FDR. He wants her to
• 12:45
  Speaker 11: serve as his eyes and legs. She seems to be
• 12:48
  Speaker 11: perpetually on the move, writes a weary reporter traveling with her.
• 12:52
  Speaker 11: Please make Eleanor tired, just.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: For one day. The joyride with Amelia happened in April,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: less than two months after Eleanor's arrival at the White House.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: It was another way of saying, I'm not your traditional
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: First Lady. I'm making my own way. But the flight
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: had a very literal message as well.
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: Aviation was a very young industry in 1933, especially commercial aviation.
• 13:24
  Speaker 7: And so the idea that somebody other than just a
• 13:29
  Speaker 7: World War I pilot or a stunt pilot, that there
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: could be regularly scheduled airlines that you could fly from
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: Washington to New York, These things are all very new
• 13:40
  Speaker 7: at the time. And to many people, they seemed kind of, well,
• 13:45
  Speaker 7: it's just such a weird idea.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Both Amelia and Eleanor had a passion for aviation. They
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: really believed flying was the future. Eleanor got a student
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: pilot license at one point, although FDR nixed the idea
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: before it went very far. And in a women's magazine column,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Amelia even suggested all mothers should become pilots so that
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: they be good parents and help their kids when they're
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: flying around all the time, because obviously in the future,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: that's how we'd be getting around day to day. So
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: it was important to them to get other women involved
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: in this world as pilots and as passengers. Eleanor made
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: sure to point out how at ease she was on
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: the night flight with Amelia. She was quoted saying she
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: felt just as safe with a woman in the cockpit
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: as she would have with a man. And that was
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a big deal.
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: There's a sense of them both being ambassadors for aviation,
• 14:52
  Speaker 7: and they're also ambassadors for opening opportunities for women. And
• 14:58
  Speaker 7: so here is this joyride that combines all of those things.
• 15:04
  Speaker 7: And so It's this kind of combination of, it seems
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: very spontaneous, but you get a sense that everyone is
• 15:12
  Speaker 7: very aware of the larger symbolism of it.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Remember, it wasn't too long before this that women didn't
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: have the constitutional right to vote. They didn't have many
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: formalized rights in the 30s. There were major concerns about
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: women in aviation. That they were too scatterbrained to use
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: the technology, too emotional to handle possible crises. Male pilots
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: worried about training women because of the potential backlash should
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: a member of the fairer sex die in an accident.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Amelia and Eleanor had a message to share with the country,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: and they put on quite the show to do it.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: They made sure the press was there to jot down
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: their quotes and snap photographs. These women were no strangers
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: to PR, and if a headline-grabbing opportunity didn't arise on
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: its own, they could always create the perfect scenario themselves.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: In the years surrounding the night flight, Amelia and Eleanor
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: weren't just famous, they were a brand new kind of celebrity.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: So you had actresses in the news here in the 1930s,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: and then the other way in which women established themselves
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: in the news was in the social realm. That's why
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: I went into the Women's and Society pages. But you
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: just didn't see many women of activity and accomplishment This
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: is Maureen Beasley.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: She's studied the ways Eleanor, in particular.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Got attention from the press. And Eleanor Roosevelt definitely was
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: a media celebrity. She recognized the importance of the media
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: in all of its forms. Eleanor set up these press
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: conferences for women reporters only because she wanted to give
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: them news that men couldn't get.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Eleanor had her first press conference just two days after
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: entering the White House. That was before FDR had his
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: first press conference as president.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: She didn't know exactly how to handle herself at first.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: It is said that she walked around with a box
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: of candied fruit and, you know, sort of acted like
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: a hostess.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: As awkward as that first press conference may have been,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: it didn't take her long to find her footing. Eleanor
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: had a strong sense for what the country cared about.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: She held many causes near and dear to her heart.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: And she realized these were the kind of stories she
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: could share with women journalists. Within a few weeks, she
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: was ready to show them and the public what she
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: was made of. She invited Amelia to dinner at the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: White House.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: It was a way of courting the public through taking
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: part in an event that did make news. Here you
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: had two of the most notable women of the era,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: and she took along some of her favorite reporters on
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: this flight over Washington. You have to have a sense
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: of drama if you're going to, in the public eye.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: The night flight shows us how this virtuous press cycle worked.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Women journalists got to come along. They got the byline
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: in the papers the next day. And of course, Eleanor
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: got the headlines. First lady in night flight. First lady
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: goes on night air trip. First lady of land flies
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: with first lady of the air. We may take for
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: granted today that the First Lady is a public figure
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: with a platform and press coverage, but that wasn't really
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: the case before Eleanor.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Earlier, First Ladies didn't think it was too feminine to
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: court publicity. Certainly, Eleanor's predecessor, Lou Henry Hoover, although an
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: extremely educated and accomplished woman, didn't want much press attention,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: even to the point that When she had a Christmas
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: party at the White House for Girl Scouts, she wouldn't
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: allow the press in, if you can imagine such a thing.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: So Eleanor came in and she was quite willing to
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: focus attention on herself. Here you have a first lady
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: for the first time is seeking to be in the news.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: The night flight wasn't the last of her exploits to
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: captivate the press. There was the time she was driven
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: two miles into a coal mine. showing her support for
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: the workers hit hard during the Depression. The papers captured
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Howe wearing a, quote, borrowed gray overcoat and a miner's cap.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Eleanor emerged from the mine. to a cheering crowd 2,500 strong.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: And her month-long journey to the South Pacific during World
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: War II certainly didn't escape the news cycle either. Eleanor's
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: connection to the press ran deep. In fact, Eleanor did
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: so much press, she actually thought of herself as part
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: of the press corps.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: What people don't seem to realize about her is that
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: she actually considered herself a journalist on her income tax returns.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: And in a way, that makes sense. Because in addition
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: to providing quotes and posing for photo ops, she started
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: covering the adventures she took herself. During her time in
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: the White House, Eleanor made nearly the same number of
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: radio appearances as her husband, the president. She hosted her
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: own programs. She wrote a number of books and hundreds
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: of articles, including a daily column for many years. It
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: was called My Day, and it was syndicated in 90 newspapers.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: It had millions of readers. And Amelia Earhart picked up
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: a thing or two from Eleanor's success.
• 21:35
  Speaker 7: She quickly learns to do what Eleanor Roosevelt, I think,
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: had already learned to do, which is to use her
• 21:40
  Speaker 7: celebrity skills. to promote the causes that she cares about.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Historian Susan Ware again.
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: You really have to keep the name out there if
• 21:51
  Speaker 7: you're going to maintain your celebrity. It is this kind
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: of nitty-gritty of the lecture circuit and the grinding out
• 21:58
  Speaker 7: the articles and the appearing on newsreels and all these things.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Like Eleanor, Amelia did her own share of stunts to
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: garner attention and intrigue. It wasn't just her record-breaking flights, either.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: There was the time she tried out deep-sea diving or
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: demonstrated a new device to help pilots with parachute jump training.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: To sustain her flying and her advocacy, she had to
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: sustain her fame. In her own words, no pay, no fly,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: and no work, no play.
• 22:33
  Speaker 7: Flying was expensive, and planes just don't pay for themselves,
• 22:38
  Speaker 7: and so... She really had to work at bringing in
• 22:43
  Speaker 7: an income.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: The press coverage that those women and that night flight got,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: it had financial benefits. Exclusive articles after Amelia's flight could
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: pay big bucks. The New York Times paid $ 20, 000 in
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: 1928 for a story of the friendship flight. The lecture
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: circuits also paid. And all the attention led to brand
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: deals for Amelia, with a car company, Kodak Film, an
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: engine company. She also designed and modeled her own line
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: of clothing and luggage. Her designs were advertised in the
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: pages of Vogue and featured in a Macy's window display,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: decked out with a model of her pilot's cabin. This
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: was the precursor to the celebrity brands we all know today,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: whether it's Kim Kardashian's Skims or Fenty Beauty by Rihanna.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: The flight was important in a commercial way to both
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: of these women. Eleanor wasn't raising money for a flight
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: around the world, but Eleanor wanted to use her time
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: in the White House to promote the interests of the
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Democratic Party and certainly to try to improve of a
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: lot of people who were in such dire straits during
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: the Depression.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Eleanor was proud to donate to charity with money that
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: she made herself, through lecture circuits, for example, or her
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: own radio program, specifically from the show's sponsors.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Eleanor gave these sponsored broadcasts And she got away with it,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: shall we say, in the public eye by saying that
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: she was giving the money that she made to charity.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Eleanor could make as much as $ 3, 000 for just one episode.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: When you account for inflation, that's more than $ 50, 000 today.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: The average American worker was not earning that much in
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: an entire year.
• 24:40
  Speaker 9: And now I believe we'll pause to listen to a
• 24:43
  Speaker 9: few words from Mr.
• 24:44
  Speaker 8: Grauer.
• 24:45
  Speaker 9: Thank you, Mrs. Roosevelt. Friends, the makers of Sweetheart Soap
• 24:49
  Speaker 9: feel highly privileged to have arranged these visits with Mrs.
• 24:52
  Speaker 9: Roosevelt for you. Be sure to listen regularly, and be
• 24:55
  Speaker 9: sure to make friends with the product that's responsible for
• 24:58
  Speaker 9: all of this, Sweetheart Soap. Pure, creamy white, with a
• 25:02
  Speaker 9: delicate fragrance all its own, Sweetheart Soap has become one
• 25:06
  Speaker 9: of America's most popular soaps.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Eleanor's broadcasts had all kinds of sponsors. Cold creams, coffee, typewriters, mattresses,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: way before all your favorite podcasts had ad breaks for
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Casper Mattress. Critics, though, felt like she was commercializing her
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: role in the White House.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: If you could imagine, today I think we would be
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: somewhat appalled if we had Dr. Biden on a television program, say,
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: that's sponsored by Toyota. People would say, well, you know,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: this is totally inappropriate.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: But Eleanor was playing the long game. Doing PR at
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: this level, achieving fame at this level, requires some serious strategizing.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: The right image for these women had to be crafted.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: And in all honesty, their husbands were a huge help
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: with that. Eleanor leveraged her status as the president's wife.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And Amelia had G.P.
• 26:05
  Speaker 9: Putnam.
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: I will say that having GP Putnam made an enormous
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: difference to Amelia Earhart's career.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: GP was Amelia's manager-turned-husband. He was always behind the scenes,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: pulling levers, forging partnerships, planning speaker events, and enforcing deadlines.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: He took charge of keeping her in the spotlight. And
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: when she was, he advised her to smile for the cameras.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: With closed lips, though, to hide the gaps in her teeth. Oh,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: and no hats. He found her hat to be, quote,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: a public menace.
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: She was, in some ways, just the perfect heroine. She
• 26:47
  Speaker 7: was incredibly modern-looking and attractive. She had short, tousled hair.
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: She would fly wearing slacks and a plaid shirt. And
• 26:59
  Speaker 7: with a silk scarf knotted around her neck. And so
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: when she landed, she would come out and she would
• 27:06
  Speaker 7: smile her kind of shy smile. And she's just made
• 27:10
  Speaker 7: for the newsreels.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Amelia shot into the spotlight like no female pilot had before.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Her media presence in this arena was unrivaled. Her husband's
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: work was essential to that. But privilege was at play here, too.
• 27:25
  Speaker 7: One thing we really need to remember is that Amelia
• 27:28
  Speaker 7: Earhart was not the only female aviator in the time.
• 27:34
  Speaker 7: There were quite a lot, not huge numbers, not as
• 27:38
  Speaker 7: many as men, but there were other independent, spunky women pilots,
• 27:43
  Speaker 7: you know, the kind of women who just won't take
• 27:45
  Speaker 7: no for an answer, who were setting records and doing
• 27:49
  Speaker 7: daring flights and trying to start airlines and all kinds
• 27:53
  Speaker 7: of things. They didn't have a full-time publicist the way
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: she did with her husband.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: The fact that Amelia was a white woman played a
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: big part in her acclaim. There were talented pilots of
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: color like Bessie Coleman, who passed away a couple years
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: before Amelia's Atlantic crossing. She's largely forgotten now, but she
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: certainly deserves to be remembered as an American icon, the
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: first black pilot, man or woman, to acquire an international
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: pilot license. Yet it was Amelia who the world was
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: able to accept as the all-American girl. Eleanor also figured
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: out how to present herself in the public eye. She
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: could bend the rules, she could travel and speak out,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: as long as she painted herself just the right way.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: as the good first lady, the patriotic wife.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Because of Franklin's incapacity during polio, Publix was willing to
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: accept the fact, oh, this is a wife helping her husband,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: so it's fine that she wants to take inspection trips
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: around the country and see what's going on and then
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: report to him. She was a beloved figure, but she
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: was always seen as a good woman who's helping her husband.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: In the 1930s, the world just wasn't ready for women
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: to abandon traditional values.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: No, I do not think that Eleanor could have projected
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: herself as she did had she not couched what she
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: said very carefully in the vein of a traditional wife
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: and mother. I think that was necessary politically for her
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: ideas to be accepted.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: In addition to aviation, Eleanor and Amelia both wanted women
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: educated to be a part of the workforce, and to
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: be paid. But just because they had big ideas didn't
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: mean they cast themselves as revolutionaries.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: She didn't make raging political speeches, and certainly she didn't
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: come out with flaming statements that women should be themselves
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: and they should forget about the family and that sort
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: of thing. She didn't.
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: There had been the women's suffrage movement, which culminated in 1920.
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: 1920 with the passage of the 19th Amendment. And then
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: in the 1960s and 70s, there's the resurgence of what's
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: called second wave feminism. In these intervening years, There isn't
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: a mass movement, but that doesn't mean that feminism dies
• 30:28
  Speaker 7: or goes away. You just have to look for it
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: in different places.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: It's there, but it's not loud and proud. If Amelia
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: and Eleanor took that approach in the 30s, they wouldn't
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: have made the same impact.
• 30:42
  Speaker 7: I have no problem calling both Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia
• 30:48
  Speaker 7: Earhart feminists. I often... use a definition that Eleanor Roosevelt
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: put forth in 1935 that talks about women having equal
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: opportunities with men.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: The night flight encapsulates this all perfectly. They put on
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: a show of femininity and glamour. They dressed up in
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: their gloves and their gowns. That was the backdrop for
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: their message about women's abilities. It was political, but it
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: was still subtle. It was supposed to feel harmless, not
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: like they were crashing through the glass ceiling. Their ability
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: to walk that tightrope, to push the envelope but not
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: rock the boat, the only way to pull that off
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: was masterful PR. And the night flight? Well, it may
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: have created a model that celebrities are still using today.
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: Two girlfriends decide it would be fun to take a
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: road trip across America. They start out in the West
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: Coast and drive all the way across the country, making
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: pit stops along the way and really seeing what is
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: not just America, but Americana. These drive-by towns that most
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: people wouldn't necessarily stop in. And they take us on
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: a journey with them that is just unforgettable. They crash
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: a wedding. They play bingo. Bingo was all the rage
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: and they play bingo. They sleep in a teepee. They
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: stop in a hotel that looks like a, almost a
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: caricature of a teepee.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: That's Kelly Carter Jackson, a professor at Wellesley College. And
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: this is Leah Wright Regur, a historian from Johns Hopkins.
• 32:53
  Speaker 10: They head to a department store where they try on,
• 32:55
  Speaker 10: with the help of like local shoppers, they try on
• 32:59
  Speaker 10: beautiful gowns and dresses. They end up buying several things.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: This might sound like another story about Amelia and Eleanor,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: but it's not.
• 33:09
  Speaker 10: Of course, we are talking about Oprah Winfrey and her bestie,
• 33:14
  Speaker 10: Gayle King. Two of the most famous Black women ever.
• 33:17
  Speaker 10: In America, let alone, you know, like the world.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Kelly and Leah are both academics and the co-hosts of
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: You Get a Podcast, the unauthorized study of the queen
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: of talk.
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: As a kid, I was obsessed with Oprah. I watched
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: Oprah all the time. My family members used to tease
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: me because I watched the show so much.
• 33:40
  Speaker 10: Oprah Winfrey is ubiquitous. As a child growing up in
• 33:45
  Speaker 10: the 80s and the 90s, Oprah Winfrey was the culture.
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: She was everywhere.
• 33:49
  Speaker 10: So it wasn't that she was just a part of
• 33:51
  Speaker 10: the culture. She was actually defining it. It was can't
• 33:55
  Speaker 10: miss TV.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: So why are we talking about Oprah and Gayle? Bear
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: with me for a minute here. This cross-country road trip,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: it actually has a lot in common with the night flight.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Even though these things happened 70 years apart. The road
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: trip was in 2006. It aired as an episode of
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: The Oprah Winfrey Show.
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: And along the way, they deepen their relationship. They find
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: out more about themselves. They find out the things that
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: annoy themselves.
• 34:27
  Speaker 10: About each other.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: You get to see the different personalities. You get to
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: see how like Gail loves to sing along to the
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: music and Oprah rather ride along in silence. Like she
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: doesn't like listening to music.
• 34:39
  Speaker 10: So we're not watching. I mean, we are watching for
• 34:41
  Speaker 10: the shenanigans, but we're also watching for the beautiful friendship
• 34:44
  Speaker 10: between Gail and Oprah.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: There's this element of friendship and joy and what seems
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: like spontaneity, even though it's a big planned trip with
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: lots of cameras. All of this makes it feel like
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: a modern version of Amelia and Eleanor. And like the
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: night flight, the stunt had some deeper symbolism.
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: What's more American than being black and pulled over by
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: the police?
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: A key moment in the trip happened when Oprah and
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Gayle and their caravan of camera people and producers were
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: driving in Kentucky. When one car got stopped by the police,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the whole group pulled over to wait, which was something
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: the officer wasn't expecting.
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: The highway patrolman is like, get off my highway. You know,
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: like he's like yelling at them and confused that he
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: pulled over one car and now all these other cars
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: are stopping. We're with the Oprah show doing a shoot.
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: And when Oprah gets out the car and pulls that
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: sort of Oprah card, like, hello, I'm Oprah Winfrey, he realizes, like, oh, shit.
• 35:51
  Speaker 10: This is Oprah Winfrey.
• 35:52
  Speaker 9: We're doing a TV shoot.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: My name is Buddy Carey. Like, I have not just
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: pulled over anyone. I mean, I've got Oprah Winfrey and
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: 35 cameras. This is not what happens every day, folks.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: At that point, it becomes a big joke. Oprah and
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Gayle even start teasing the officer. I know you went,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: what are you saying? Get off of my highway!
• 36:17
  Speaker 10: And so we're looking at that moment and being like, oh,
• 36:20
  Speaker 10: she's trying to invert this idea of like what it
• 36:22
  Speaker 10: means to be black and be pulled over in the
• 36:25
  Speaker 10: middle of nowhere on a road trip. Like this is
• 36:27
  Speaker 10: this is a black person's worst nightmare.
• 36:30
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 36:30
  Speaker 10: To be pulled over in the middle of rural Southern
• 36:33
  Speaker 10: America and have a police officer essentially question like, what
• 36:38
  Speaker 10: are you doing? You don't know. Like, you could be
• 36:40
  Speaker 10: breathing wrong. And here, Oprah and Gayle being like, actually,
• 36:43
  Speaker 10: the power dynamic is inverted because I'm a black billionaire.
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: Ha ha, joke's on you. And the camera's rolling.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: As much as they make the situation seem carefree, the
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: potential danger of their position doesn't go totally unremarked upon.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: After Gayle tells the officer they're doing a TV shoot,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: the episode cuts to Gayle in a studio interview. Shoot
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: was the wrong word to use. Cue the laugh track.
• 37:14
  Speaker 10: But it also feels like a really safe way to
• 37:18
  Speaker 10: introduce white audiences to like black people's reality.
• 37:22
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 37:22
  Speaker 10: It's not a George Floyd moment, which is so shocking
• 37:28
  Speaker 10: as to perhaps turn people off.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 37:32
  Speaker 10: To see a man laugh. murdered by the police on camera, right?
• 37:36
  Speaker 10: In excruciating ways. No, this is, wow, even Oprah Winfrey
• 37:42
  Speaker 10: gets pulled over, right? But it's contained, it's safe, right?
• 37:49
  Speaker 10: So it feels like almost like it is a safe
• 37:52
  Speaker 10: space for white people to understand what it means to
• 37:57
  Speaker 10: be a black woman driving in mobility around the country.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Oprah has smashed through the glass ceiling and so many
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: other barriers. But Oprah didn't build her empire by being
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: an activist. She's a brilliant marketer, a brilliant entertainer. It's
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: the stunt, the show they put on that makes this memorable.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Oprah and Gayle are engaging with political and social issues today.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: on a highly rated TV show, not from a political podium.
• 38:30
  Speaker 10: She is centering Black women's joy on a platform, a
• 38:34
  Speaker 10: huge platform, one of the biggest in the United States,
• 38:37
  Speaker 10: and saying, look, Black women being joyful.
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: Now what?
• 38:40
  Speaker 10: People tell us all the time, what episode do you remember?
• 38:43
  Speaker 10: I remember the girls' trip. It's not some huge act
• 38:46
  Speaker 10: of resistance. And I think part of the attitude that
• 38:48
  Speaker 10: Oprah and Gail had, which is actually interesting in this
• 38:51
  Speaker 10: day and age where it feels like you have to
• 38:53
  Speaker 10: do in-your-face pronouncements about race. Oprah and Gail are like, look,
• 38:57
  Speaker 10: we're Black women.
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: That's it.
• 39:00
  Speaker 10: Like, there you go. But part of what we are
• 39:02
  Speaker 10: doing is a project in normalizing.
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: Yes, that's the word I was going to say, normalizing.
• 39:08
  Speaker 10: Right, normalizing Black women joy in existing.
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: Their very existence, their very presence is radical. And so
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: it's the same thing with Eleanor and with Amelia. It's
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: like a woman flying a plane. You don't have to speak.
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: It speaks volumes.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: The night flight was a PR stunt. Nobody would know
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: about the joyride if it wasn't for the women's incredible
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: relationship with the press. But it also wasn't fake or disingenuous.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: These women genuinely supported the cause, and they genuinely seemed
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: to enjoy themselves in the cockpit. Decades before talk shows
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: and reality TV and social media, Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Earhart gave us a model for sending a message.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: I love this.
• 39:58
  Speaker 10: This high-powered bat. right? 1930 baddies. 1930s was not a
• 40:04
  Speaker 10: hot time for women. Oh, no.
• 40:07
  Speaker 8: It really wasn't.
• 40:08
  Speaker 10: We just got the vote. And so for her and
• 40:11
  Speaker 10: Amelia Earhart to kind of come out and be like
• 40:13
  Speaker 10: America's most wanted, like, like, let's go. Like in a
• 40:18
  Speaker 10: lot of ways, they're like paving the way for a
• 40:20
  Speaker 10: kind of Gayle Oprah type thing. And I don't think
• 40:23
  Speaker 10: that's an exaggeration. Like I can see people being like, oh,
• 40:26
  Speaker 10: that's a stretch. That's a stretch. But it's not right.
• 40:28
  Speaker 10: It's like the first lady of the United States and
• 40:30
  Speaker 10: the most celebrated and famous woman of the era.
• 40:33
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 40:33
  Speaker 10: Amelia Earhart is. Basically saying, no, no, no. Like we're
• 40:37
  Speaker 10: shunning the conventions and the rules of the era. And
• 40:40
  Speaker 10: we're going to be part of my French, these bad
• 40:42
  Speaker 10: bitches who go around and like make decisions and influence politics.
• 40:47
  Speaker 10: and have our own fashion line, and we're raking in dough.
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: These are women that could really push boundaries, but they
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: didn't have to be outlandish to do it.
• 40:56
  Speaker 10: She doesn't have to say anything else.
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, same with Amelia flying.
• 41:00
  Speaker 10: She doesn't have to do anything else.
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: All she has to do is fly the plane and
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: land it, and that's boom. Enough said.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: Obviously, no surprise, these women were incredibly famous and influential.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: Everybody knows that. Their posters are in every magazine. elementary school.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: But their fame was very modern. And Eleanor is basically
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: a podcast host. Amelia is doing brand deals. Sweetheart Soap.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 41:24
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: I really enjoyed getting that insider take.
• 41:28
  Speaker 6: I had never heard the story or heard of it before.
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: This is all new to me. And I absolutely loved
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: it because the whole image of Amelia Earhart and Eleanor
• 41:34
  Speaker 6: Roosevelt in glamorous evening gowns, white gloves is so against
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: what I think of them. And yet it's so perfectly
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: fit them. I was like, wow, look at that. The
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: range of people. And also obviously them just taking to
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: the night sky is such an iconic image.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I felt the same way. I had actually never heard
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: this story before this episode. It felt like a Marvel
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: mashup that I just didn't know happened. I was like,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: oh my God, of course those women had met. Yes, exactly.
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: I kind of knew they were friends, but I didn't
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: know what good friends they were and how they helped
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: each other and bolstered each other. And I love that
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: Eleanor has her own media persuasion campaign that's like PR stunts,
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: which goes along with FDR's fireside chats. They're both like
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: shaping the nation through media.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: I loved that. Okay, who are we going to cast?
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: We have two strong female characters here.
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: Okay, so Eleanor Roosevelt, I went with a young Olivia Colman.
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: I thought she could nail it.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: You like that, right? And then for Amelia Earhart, Julia Garner,
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: the curly-headed blonde from Ozark.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, she's great.
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: If you're familiar with Ozark.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right?
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: And then I thought she'd be good, and if not her,
• 42:32
  Speaker 6: then a young Geena Davis. And then for G.P. Putnam,
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: the husband, I thought I wanted a decent guy, so
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: I don't know why. John C. Reilly just to me
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: screams decent. I just expect him like, oh, yeah, he
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: looks like he could have money and be like, I
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: love my wife, so.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: I would see that film.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: That's great casting. I love Olivia Colman. I feel like
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: if anyone's listening, let's just get her in any movie
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: where she gets to play a first lady.
• 42:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah, right?
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: Also, I forgot FDR. I don't know why, but I
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: thought Sam Rockwell as horny FDR.
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: That would be really funny.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: So there you go.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Who's your very special character?
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: Jason, you got one?
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: I think Eleanor Roosevelt plays nine different characters in this,
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: but especially her as the podcaster getting $ 3, 000 an episode
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: or the equivalent of about $ 50, 000 today. That's the dream.
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: I think we should hold that up and try to
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: return to that standard.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: She's our podcast inspiration. I'm also going to say the
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: terrible White House chef. Kudos to you for doing a
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: bad job.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes. Brilliant.
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: Great call.
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: I mean, I love her. She was my first hero.
• 43:37
  Speaker 6: So Amelia Earhart, I just got to add a respect
• 43:39
  Speaker 6: for her. She's my very special character because I love her.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people.
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: This show is hosted by Dana Schwartz, Saren Burnett, and
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: Jason English. Today's episode was written by Dylan Hoyer. Our
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: producer is Josh Fisher. Our story editor is Marissa Brown.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: Editing and sound design by Chris Childs. Mixing and mastering
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: by Bahid Frazier. Original music by Elise McCoy. Research and
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: fact-checking by Dylan Hoyer and Austin Thompson. Show logo by
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: Lucy Quintanilla. Our executive producer is Jason English. If you'd
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: like to email the show, you can reach us at
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: veryspecialepisodes at gmail.com. Very Special Episodes is a production of
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: iHeart Podcasts.