Latest / Finding New Waters / Redefining Sobriety with Robbie Shaw & Patrick Balsley

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Redefining Sobriety with Robbie Shaw & Patrick Balsley · Finding New Waters

0:00
Addiction is like the biggest Public Health crisis ever.
0:04
Yeah, right now, just mean all due to our phone.
0:06
Yes. All the cardiovascular stuff,
0:09
all that stuff. It's all addiction, addiction
0:11
related D, all in your work. And through the podcast, maybe
0:15
tangentially work with people or who have more process addiction
0:20
phone shopping gaming. I don't think that's is common
0:24
to admit these days. And I don't think people think
0:28
of it as An acute issue, right? I mean, it's something that
0:33
we've yet to see what its long-term effects are.
0:36
You know, I mean, we're starting to see it in kids anxiety and
0:39
depression, you know? I mean, so partially, I mean, I
0:44
think in the work that we do in knowing that special,
0:48
especially, because we Patrick and I both work more in the
0:52
holistic space kind of looking at the entire Wellness spectrum
0:55
and and screen time is absolutely one of them.
0:58
Yeah. So we You know, we certainly
1:00
talk about that and nutrition and exercise and all those
1:03
things but especially when you're talking with kids.
1:06
But but it's the same thing. Same thing goes with like
1:08
parenting. I mean, it's like, you know,
1:10
constantly telling my daughter to get off her phone while I'm
1:13
on my phone. Welcome to finding new Waters.
1:42
Our goal in creating finding new Watchers is to provide a
1:45
resource for families to help navigate the complexities of
1:48
supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or
1:51
mental health. When we find ourselves in
1:54
crisis, due to one of these issues.
1:56
Most people have no idea where to turn, we hope to shed some
2:00
light on to what is often The Darkest Hour for many families?
2:03
Well, I am very honored and privileged to be sitting here
2:06
today for this episode of Finding Waters with Robbie shawl
2:10
and Patrick balsley there. The hosts of champagne problems,
2:14
the number one rated podcast by Charlotte magazine.
2:20
I, I've actually known Robbie for since I was 10 years old and
2:24
Patrick, just for the last about three years working in this
2:27
industry. And we're so honored and excited
2:30
to have them here today. And we're not just going to talk
2:33
about what they do with their podcast.
2:34
We do want to talk about that but also what they do outside
2:37
and what they do for you, They're their day-to-day and how
2:41
they ended up where they are in terms of recovery and all that
2:43
kind of stuff. So, good three or four hours.
2:47
Yeah, we did. You said you had to be back by
2:51
dinner, right? That's right. 11:00.
2:53
It's all right. All right, well, let's get
2:54
going, anyway. Thank you all for being here and
2:57
I'll just kind of turn it over to you first.
2:59
Robbie, about what do you? What do you do other than host?
3:03
Champagne problems. Well, first thanks for having
3:06
me. We are equally as honored to be
3:08
here with you. Be, what do I do outside of
3:12
champagne problems? I do quite a few things, I think
3:16
as it relates to, you know, this conversation.
3:18
I do have a private practice called Eventide recovery where I
3:22
work as a recovery, sobriety and wellness coach, that started
3:27
years ago with some intervention services.
3:29
And now it's just kind of morphed into just doing coaching
3:32
for people who are either looking to get sober.
3:35
Toying with it or are sober and are looking to sustain as well
3:39
as work with family members and loved ones of people battling
3:44
any level of dependence or addiction.
3:46
And then I also have a studio in Audio Video Production Studio
3:50
that we are positioning under the mental health and well-being
3:54
space as you know, content creators and and any production
3:58
in that space. So that is the gist of what I do
4:03
outside of champagne problems. Awesome about you you.
4:06
So I also have a private practice in Charlotte.
4:10
It's called Sonic counseling and it's a group practice.
4:13
I have a couple coach has an interventionist couple
4:17
therapists that work alongside me.
4:20
We do a lot of the same stuff, Robbie does essentially, we
4:23
serve the same population people that that are either in recovery
4:28
or looking to be in recovery. We do a lot of pre and post, but
4:33
I call Pre and post-treatment work.
4:35
A lot of family coaching, lot of crafts style interventions,
4:38
where we kind of move families through the stages of change to
4:41
get them where they need to be in terms of engaging with
4:45
resources. It's a lot of what we do and
4:48
then families usually stick with us.
4:49
So they'll go through treatment. And then, you know, when they
4:52
get out, you know, we usually work with the families while
4:55
they're still in treatment. And, and then when they get out
4:58
there more stabilized, we can, you know, move forward from
5:02
there. And with a more of a long The
5:05
term engagement strategy, build build that trusting
5:08
relationship, and then I'd just opened a high-end recovery
5:15
residents in South. Charlotte called sauna house.
5:19
It's a really small recovery residents.
5:22
Transitional Living Program for men in early recovery and we
5:30
only have five beds and something I've wanted to do for
5:33
a really long time. So, It'll be fun and then pretty
5:37
heavily involved with Emerald School of Excellence to recovery
5:40
High School. Charlotte big passion of mine.
5:45
Yeah, pretty much it. That's awesome.
5:46
I you said something that I wanted to touch on which was
5:51
people who are kind of experimenting with recovery the
5:53
sober, curious movement, if that's even, you know can be
5:57
classified as a movement but it's something I've noticed and
6:00
then when I first heard your podcast guests almost three
6:03
years ago now or at least two that seem to be kind of a an
6:08
ongoing theme and I know it's evolved and changes and but I I
6:13
see it in my personal life and it sounds like you do too.
6:15
And I, you know, I want to hear your thoughts on it to about
6:18
kind of what that really looks like and does that ever in your
6:22
experience turned into permanent sobriety, Great questions.
6:27
So the word sober is what throws that off, right?
6:33
It really is, just people looking to eliminate things that
6:37
are hurting them. So, it's really falls under the
6:39
more Wellness well-being space. Now, of course, there's a wide
6:44
range of people that might fall into this population that are
6:47
exploring this stuff, so there could be people that are
6:49
battling some level of addiction or dependents that sobriety
6:53
might look more appealing for them.
6:54
But then I think the Curious movement, you know that it has
6:59
as its It's throughout a lot of our younger generations and a
7:03
lot of our population in general is more around the wellness
7:06
stuff just look the science around these substances
7:08
specifically alcohol because that's the most widely used.
7:13
You know, people are learning more and more about this stuff
7:16
and they're starting to recognize that, you know, their
7:18
Wellness strategies Wellness goals are not being met or being
7:21
altered to being influenced by something that is sold on every
7:24
corner and in every household or most.
7:27
And so, they're just starting to say, you know what?
7:29
Maybe this is something that's not serving me and I think that
7:32
is new. I think people have done that to
7:34
a degree but not in the space of alcohol, right?
7:37
And that's the trend and that is the snowball that's occurring
7:39
out there that are podcast is super excited about.
7:43
I mean, we position our self and the wellness space, you know,
7:45
we're not, it's not about it. Are you an alcoholic?
7:48
Are you an addict? Are you addicted?
7:50
It's how is it affecting your sleep?
7:52
Your work productivity, your relationships, your parenting,
7:54
you know, whatever else. And that way it opens it up to
7:57
everybody and not just people that are potentially bad.
7:59
An addictive behavior, right, substance, and I think that,
8:03
that news that came out pretty recently, that all sorts of
8:07
reports that moderate drinking is not, in fact, good for people
8:10
would have been the standard for thousands of years, I guess.
8:14
All right, no, it's not. It's unfortunately, it's not.
8:17
I mean it, you know, it neither is, you know, a bag of Doritos,
8:21
four days a week. So, you know, we're there's
8:24
relativity associated with this and we understand that we're not
8:27
prohibitionist but alcohol is bad for, you know, bottom line.
8:30
I mean, if we, if it came, if alcohol never existed.
8:33
And it came out today, it would be a schedule 1 controlled
8:37
substance really be completely illegal, right?
8:40
And it does more damage to your, you know, to your body and mind
8:44
then. Pretty much any other drug other
8:48
than probably meth. Yeah, you know, it's it's, it's
8:53
really bad for you. It's not good for you.
8:57
You'll both work with or between the podcast and what you both do
9:00
with younger people, not not exclusively but you know, one of
9:05
the things that I'm always, you know, I found recovering got
9:08
sober, you know, kind of that average age.
9:10
I was 41 and, but a lot of my friends got sober really young.
9:14
And I we work. I To work specifically with
9:17
younger guys and women, you know, young adults, and just
9:21
keeping them engaged. And my whole thing was always,
9:24
you know, let's show people how to enjoy life in recovery.
9:27
Not just tell them that it's possible and just wondering,
9:30
kind of what your experience has been like.
9:32
And what you would say to try to help keep younger people
9:35
engaged, who are, who need to be in recovery and who are or
9:39
experimenting with it because, you know, they see their
9:42
friends, you know? Mostly not and they, yeah,
9:45
Rubble. Except I mean I love the lens
9:47
that we look at things from, you know it's less clinical, it's
9:50
more more on the health and wellness side.
9:54
I think we've done a really poor job historically of being able
9:58
to articulate what we're dealing with and we've kind of
10:03
pigeon-holed it into this pathological way of looking at
10:07
this issue or particular, even a potential issue and it's
10:11
stigmatizing, you know, so a lot of the young people especially
10:15
the The you know may not be, you know what we would consider hit,
10:23
rock bottom or whatever, but have like some moderate
10:26
consequences in their life due to their substance use.
10:29
It's very difficult for them to align themselves.
10:32
With what we would typically call somebody with a severe
10:36
substance use disorder or like Robbie, like alcohol or
10:41
alcoholic or addict, they just don't identify with that.
10:45
So I think if we can aim aim more towards articulating, this
10:53
kind of dynamic in a more of a health and wellness way they
10:58
they can roll with that. You know, it's like hey let's
11:00
just take a look at how this stuff's affecting your life and
11:05
not look at it more like a you know from a shame shame or guilt
11:09
perspective. Like what's your do, what are
11:11
your family? You know it's like Now let's
11:14
that's really do like a like an assessment of how this is
11:18
impacting you and how does it match up to your values?
11:22
Like how does this, how is this stopping you from getting where
11:27
you want to go? And if you don't know where you
11:29
want to go, let's figure that out first.
11:32
You know. Yeah.
11:32
And then you know more externally, there's there's you
11:37
know, two really big uphill battles that I think stand out
11:41
and one is the effect of Alcohol.
11:44
It's super effective and people tend to kind of forget that or
11:49
don't keep it front of Mind where it's like, you know, why
11:52
this why that? It's like, we'll have you ever
11:54
had a sip of alcohol and it works, right?
11:56
It makes you feel pretty damn good.
11:59
So there's that and we are creatures of, you know, living
12:03
off reward systems and we like things that make us feel good.
12:06
And so there's that, secondly, it's a cultural norm and how do
12:10
you fight that? I mean that's that's the hard
12:12
part, is the norm. Malaysian that is like, you like
12:15
you ask these kids that are just looking around, and it's like,
12:17
well, that's what you do to have fun, you know?
12:20
That's what you do to be cool. That's what you do to act like
12:22
you're famous. That's what you do to get girls.
12:24
You know, that's what you do for all this stuff.
12:26
And how do you change that? You know, and and we see it
12:30
because we quit and now we can see that it's not necessary.
12:34
It's not required to have fun and do all these things.
12:37
But that's what you grow up seeing and thinking and, and
12:40
becoming ingrained and I don't have the answer.
12:43
Don't have the answers rather than to just show it mean, won't
12:46
one of the things that I try to do is like I was saying, I try
12:48
to get whoever I'm working with because I work with a lot of
12:52
people that are sober curious that don't meet criteria for
12:55
substance use disorders. But are, you know, having
12:57
troubles with their relationship or parenting or they're, you
13:00
know, got a DUI. And it's like, okay.
13:02
Now I'm starting to see a pattern here.
13:04
Need to get a little bit of help, but like, if you can paint
13:09
a really clear picture of what you want your life to look like
13:12
like what is the Deal, you know what do you really want like,
13:17
really optimistically paint that picture?
13:19
Do you want to get drunk every night?
13:21
And and then, and then and then you just put uu map, alcohol,
13:24
use on top of that. And be like is this getting in
13:27
the way of you reaching those goals or being that person that
13:31
you want to be or being that you know dad that you want to be.
13:34
And if the answer is yes, it is getting in the way then that's a
13:38
it's a it's a pretty rational way to look at it.
13:43
And if they can see that and that always usually develop some
13:48
type of internal motivation, you know.
13:50
And sorry, but the, but the, the answers are in the results of
13:54
that too. In the sense of like, when I
13:55
think back to, if someone were to do that kind of work with me,
13:58
when I was 11th grade 12th grade, what do you want?
14:03
I want to be popular. I want to have the hottest
14:05
girlfriend, and I want to be, you know, members of this group,
14:09
and I want to go to this bar and I want to do all these things.
14:11
Like that's what I want, right? What do you say to that?
14:14
I say all right well let's look five years further.
14:17
Yeah yeah well I wouldn't have an answer so the so then yeah of
14:20
course the work would be that's definitely develop.
14:23
You know and then we go even more macro.
14:26
We say okay well this little vision that you have right now
14:28
what you want right now. How is it getting?
14:31
How is that mapping on to The Five-Year Plan, right?
14:34
As you hanging out at bars with the hot girlfriend?
14:37
You know, drinking every night. Is that going to be sustainable
14:41
to get you to what you want five years from Yeah, yep, I love
14:45
that about just simply just getting in the way.
14:47
I mean that. Yeah, when I look at my own
14:49
situation, it was, you know, I had would be called like a, you
14:52
know, somewhat high medium bottom, but it was more about
14:56
just it was just in the way of everything I was never going to
14:58
grow up. I was never going to be any
15:00
thing close to being successful in any level the only way to
15:03
measure any success in my life was just a number of years.
15:06
I've been alive and that was basically it.
15:08
Yeah just in the way it was just a way.
15:12
Yeah. But these The young guys.
15:14
I, that's great. I mean, that we just like, we
15:17
sacrifice our dreams. Yeah for, yeah, instant
15:21
gratification. Yeah.
15:22
For sure. Yeah.
15:24
And I mean, you know, I just think about you.
15:26
I was had know when people. I remember people to ask me,
15:30
what do you do in five years? I would just laugh.
15:32
You know. Yeah this.
15:33
Yeah. I don't want to know a little
15:36
bit. I don't want to think about
15:37
that. Yeah yeah one of the things too
15:39
that we still people would say. Present man.
15:42
Yeah a lot of people do. don't know, that really one of the
15:46
main organic Sources of positive.
15:50
Emotion is moving towards something that we value and it's
15:54
actually the process of moving towards like a Target that is
15:59
Meaningful to us. And it's like the, you know, the
16:02
joy is in the journey, like that's actually true.
16:05
And that's really the only thing that provides us with real, like
16:10
healthy positive emotion is is moving towards that.
16:16
And if we don't know, Know what we're moving towards.
16:20
We don't even have a Target. You just like it's meaningless.
16:24
Yeah, but not only that, like, you will end up being a victim
16:29
of our society and like all the information that we're just
16:33
getting bombarded with constantly if you know you're
16:37
not good enough you know here's something to make you feel
16:39
better drink this where this by this drive, this gotta have
16:45
this. And I mean that you know that's
16:47
how our How everything is so our economy driven.
16:52
Yeah but I was good. Yeah.
16:54
No. I mean if you don't have that
16:56
Target to to kind of overcome every, all the pressure high
17:02
down, do your toast. Yeah, yeah.
17:04
And I mean, the trigger part of all this, I remember when I was
17:07
in treatment, we had this lesson on what our Twitter triggers and
17:11
it was like bars. Okay.
17:14
Obviously parties. Okay.
17:15
Obviously restaurants. All right.
17:17
Weddings. All right, then it was like,
17:20
ATMs, exit ramps. I was like, okay, so literally
17:23
everything just right bathrooms. I mean, it kind of helped in a
17:27
way that I just on the spot was like, all right, so everything's
17:29
gonna be a trigger, so maybe nothing can be a trigger but,
17:32
you know, it's not that simple. But you know, when I'm
17:34
spiritually fit, nothing is a trigger.
17:36
But it, but if I'm not, then it is.
17:38
But I was thinking about something.
17:39
I noticed when y'all first started when you first started
17:41
champagne problems, a lot of talk about just, you know, being
17:45
everywhere coming from all angles.
17:46
Like we're talking about now, but yesterday.
17:48
I was creating an invite for, I won't say the name of the, you
17:55
know, the online invitation generator for an alumni event
18:01
were having in May and just the options to choose, like they
18:06
have hundreds of them, all stood on that damn thing.
18:08
From 106 hours, 80 of 200 options, have alcohol RT, you
18:13
know, the template on the card, you know, Sip and See and bumpy
18:16
just literally. Anything and really made me
18:18
think about kind of the early days at least of champagne
18:21
problems. We're just, it's just everywhere
18:23
and it is. And, you know, just kind of
18:26
learning to navigate that and understanding that and then kind
18:30
of to your point a second ago, that all these things.
18:32
Whether it's the woman, whether its beer, whether it's drugs,
18:35
whether it's, you know, promotion, just understand that
18:39
this is all an inside job and none.
18:41
And all these external factors are all kind of, they're just
18:44
external. You know, where yet we got to
18:45
learn how to be happy from the inside out.
18:47
It's a dream killer. Our man.
18:48
Yeah, I mean it really is like the way that you just described
18:51
about it maybe it made me think about like how many people and
18:55
we don't just we don't just do it with alcohol.
18:57
We do with anything that's going to make us feel better and help
19:00
us check out. But like we go to work or we
19:02
have, you know, we have these daily stressors or these things
19:05
that we think about that. We want or these things that we
19:08
think about that. We're not satisfied with in our
19:11
life that we want to change and then we go home and we drink a
19:15
couple glasses of wine. Or eat a big ass stake and we
19:19
forget about it for the day. And then we wake up the next
19:24
morning and we do the same damn thing and we do it every single
19:28
day. And at the end of the day,
19:30
instead of, you know, kind of letting this build and be like,
19:33
I need to do something about this.
19:34
I need to change this in my life.
19:36
We just drown it out. We just suppress it day.
19:40
After day, after day, after day, until we know we're 75.
19:47
Five and we're angry and divorced.
19:50
And right. It comes out of those out, but
19:53
we're not gonna raffle. Yeah, yeah.
19:56
And I mean, I do a lot of, you know, my job here, I do most of
20:00
the pre Admissions and you know, one of the questions we asked
20:03
every single person is do you drink or use to relieve mental,
20:07
health symptoms, and whether it's anxiety or depression, or
20:09
whatever it is, and the answer is always.
20:11
Yes. And then the answer is almost
20:13
always it's always something along these lines to Drown out
20:18
life to not think about my problems because that's how it
20:21
is. We relieve stress and just no
20:23
but like we're just stuffing it down for the day every day.
20:26
It just stopped. Avoiding.
20:27
Yeah, it's not, it's not going away.
20:30
No, it's not. Well, I tried that, you know
20:31
what doesn't work and it doesn't work.
20:34
It's amazing. It comes up and comes out in
20:36
some way, shape, or form. Yeah.
20:39
And for a long time, you can you know, the lot of us can manage
20:42
it. Yeah, we can.
20:45
We can deal are we can set our standards right where they need
20:48
to be right and met in a function, a function perfectly
20:51
well because I do this, this and this, but I think we're starting
20:54
to figure out like at least scientifically is that it all
20:59
all the, that emotional Discord and disconnect that we're
21:03
drowning out, is staying stuck in our body and it's manifesting
21:06
itself and all kinds. Only physical health problems.
21:11
Sure. Well, then you, I mean, try
21:13
being a parent, right? And a loving supportive, healthy
21:20
husband, I mean, that that stuff doesn't go, you know, do all
21:23
that when you've got turmoil going on inside of, you know,
21:26
and then your kids all messed up and I can't figure out what
21:30
stuff man, you deal with it for 30 minutes and then, you know,
21:34
and drinking yourself and booze for the rest of the night, you
21:37
know? Yeah, right.
21:39
So what do you what do you say? You know, to, especially to
21:42
parents, you know what I mean? A big thing we talked about
21:44
here. A lot, especially on the
21:45
podcast. We talk about it all day at work
21:47
to is what I, you know, the biggest challenge we see with
21:50
families is the creating of and sticking to boundaries, which
21:53
seems super obvious and because it's true, and it is, but what
21:57
else would you all say, just in terms of, you know, with to
21:59
speaking to families directly about their loved one, and how
22:03
they can best handle and I don't just mean getting them into
22:07
treatment but just, you know, Lovingly working to help them,
22:11
get better. Yeah, Patrick.
22:13
And I'll talk a little bit about this on the way up because it's
22:17
as you know, there is no simple answer to that, right?
22:21
And as much as we would love to just have a, here's what you do.
22:25
Every situation is different. Every parent is different.
22:28
Every family system is different.
22:30
Every dependence or addiction to a substance or behavior is
22:35
different. So it's it's really hard to
22:37
pinpoint a very Generalized direction for that.
22:41
That being said, now, what what can you do you know initially
22:46
and we, you know, we had this talk with the church group
22:49
recently and a lot of kids were asking this.
22:51
A lot of parents were asking that and it's, you know, the
22:54
first answer was like, reach out for help.
22:56
Yeah. Bottom line.
22:57
Like number one, that's the do not try to figure it out
23:00
yourself, do not, just try things and do things based on
23:04
how you think and feel in a moment like seek out a
23:06
professional and get some guidance.
23:09
Professional a good one. All right, not that likes.
23:11
Also, one of the issues too, is that people go on Google.
23:16
Oh my God, you know, or they get caught up with some snake oil
23:20
salesman or or even just somebody that doesn't.
23:24
I mean, that's really trying to be good and has good intentions
23:28
but they really don't know what they're talking about and they
23:30
get bad advice. Yeah.
23:32
Or it's like, you know, oh my son struggled with this, and
23:36
this is what we did. And this is the treatment that
23:39
We got him so it's got to be the right one for you, you know?
23:42
And if they're not doing it intentionally but I mean you
23:46
really need to have a good you know mental health professional
23:50
can do a really good assessment and really gather all the
23:54
information before any recommendations are made.
23:57
I mean that's that is key. Well and you know to get into
24:01
the kind of details of that. Answer of the question is really
24:05
around. Like you said, all of the
24:09
details and so what they're going to try to figure out and
24:11
what the parents need to know is that they need to educate
24:14
themselves on the situation, the substance, the behavior, all of
24:18
that. But also they've got to do some
24:21
work. Yeah.
24:22
Because this is a system and you're the parent and this is
24:25
not, you know, you need to go do this, you need to go to that
24:28
because you're doing this and that, it's what can I do?
24:32
What am I doing? What's going on with me?
24:34
That's causing potentially some of this stuff and what changes
24:37
Can I make when I use the example, just in the sense of a
24:40
marriage, you know, how do you make a marriage work?
24:44
Well, it's not about letting the other person, know what they
24:49
need to do to change its doing, what you need to do, to be good
24:53
with yourself, in order to be there for the other one.
24:57
And it just, yeah, I mean, it's like same thing with parent
24:59
thing is we're talking about the external factors with the, you
25:02
know, the drugs and alcohol, and food and whatever women and
25:06
whatever it is. You know, if that person is not
25:08
the one who needs recovery or treatment you know got a
25:14
everybody's got to do his or her own, her own work, you know,
25:16
right. I mean how can you give how can
25:20
your child trusts you believe you you know feel the love, feel
25:26
the support, take the advice, take the guidance if you're not
25:29
coming from an authentic place because you're out of touch with
25:32
your own stuff. Yeah.
25:34
Right. They they sense that when it
25:36
comes to He's too, I mean that's really tricky and it's really
25:39
individualized. So there's not like there's a
25:42
big difference between understanding boundaries and
25:47
understanding your boundaries because if they're not your
25:51
boundaries, You're not, you're not going to be able to, they're
25:56
not going to be sustainable over time, like I can tell a parent.
26:00
Hey, you got to do this, you know?
26:02
And they may do it once but it's like, hold on a second.
26:06
I'm not ready to do that. Yeah, you know, I can't set that
26:09
boundary everyday, right. And then, if they do that once,
26:11
and then cave, then yeah, then I'm yeah.
26:14
So, I mean, that's why it's rude.
26:15
That's why it's different. It's different for every family.
26:18
It's different for every parent's different for every
26:20
situation. And I think that's kind of
26:22
Message that gets convoluted sometimes in terms of our field
26:27
where we have a very, you know, that idea of codependency and
26:31
you're an enabler and you know, you just gotta do this and your
26:35
kid will get better. It's like they can't do that.
26:39
It's the same thing. It's like it's the same Dynamic
26:42
of like telling a telling a person that's addicted to drugs,
26:45
like just to stop using, it's the same.
26:47
It's the same thing. Just kick them out of the house.
26:50
Yeah. Just kick them out of the house.
26:51
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
26:53
Okay. The kids mom.
26:54
But but I think we don't talk about that as much as we should
27:00
and and it's very difficult for family members to figure out
27:05
their own boundaries. Without the help of like a
27:10
really good therapist or really good health professional and in
27:13
order to figure out your own boundary I mean that takes some
27:17
time and that's why I tell her I'm like everybody should go to
27:20
therapy. Yeah.
27:21
Every single person in that family system want to have a
27:23
therapist that they're seeing and not to get advice, not for
27:28
the therapist to tell them what to do.
27:30
It's for them to build a healthy relationship with that therapist
27:34
so they can figure out what their boundaries actually are.
27:37
That's, you know, it's key. Yeah.
27:40
So we have this new podcast here in its infancy and I we've
27:45
talked about this a little bit before but we you just talk
27:47
about the Genesis of champagne problems and you know where it
27:51
is. Now paired to where it came
27:53
from. Sure it was my idea.
27:55
Sure. I got it so funny story.
27:59
We went to Florida and Patrick introduced me to somebody he
28:02
knew because this is Robbie. He's on my podcast.
28:07
We did it. It started with me wanting to
28:20
write a book. So alcohol has been a part us
28:24
say this all the time alcohol has been a part of my life.
28:25
Since the day I was born and my mom hates here in this story,
28:29
and she won't watch this, so it doesn't matter.
28:31
But my dad was wasted on the night that I was born and so he
28:34
didn't make it to the to my birth.
28:36
I think it was out of Carolina State game and that's always
28:40
been a funny story and all that but honestly it's a little bit
28:43
hurtful but you know, so from day one alcoholism Influenced me
28:49
in some way. Then, of course, I grew up in a
28:50
very alcoholic household. I became addicted to alcohol.
28:54
Now, I'm in recovery and then I studied it.
28:57
Now, I work in the field, you know, it's just been a part of
28:59
my life from day one to today and that doesn't make me unique
29:05
but it does give me some passion around, wanting people to know
29:11
what I know. And I think a lot of that comes
29:14
from working in this field and seeing so many people and
29:17
families and And things just destroyed by it.
29:20
And not that, that's what happens to everybody that
29:22
drinks, but it does happen to a lot of people and it just really
29:28
pulls at my heart strings. And so, I thought, if I could
29:32
write a book, kind of sharing everything, I've learned
29:36
throughout all of my years and all that kind of, are we allowed
29:39
to cuss all your? We aren't them.
29:40
I think so. Don't cuss on this thing.
29:44
Probably not. We got it out, we bleep it.
29:47
All right. A little CBS all that kind of so
29:50
all that all that whatever. And so I wanted to write this
29:54
book and so I started trying I'm not very good at sitting down
29:58
and writing a book. It turns out.
30:00
So somebody was like, nobody's going to buy it anyway because
30:02
nobody knows you and this thank you but okay and they're like,
30:06
you need to find a following, you know, write a blog to a
30:09
podcast and I was like, boom. Gonna do a podcast asked another
30:13
friend of mine, if you wanted to sit in my living room, a guy in
30:16
recovery with me and we were just like my, let's just shoot
30:18
the breeze. You know, just talk about the
30:19
stuff and just start talking about alcohol and just kind of
30:22
what we've learned and you know, lots of insight and experience
30:25
and wisdom and all the stuff he said.
30:27
No. And and so I just didn't know
30:30
what I was going to do other than I wanted to do this and
30:33
Patrick and I had been introduced, you know, via like
30:37
Instagram through one of our friends.
30:39
I think we even followed each other because we had both And
30:41
told a number of times that we needed to meet each other, but
30:44
we're both pretty stubborn and never really reached out to do
30:48
it. Despite being told we needed to
30:50
and we just kind of like fun kind of watched each other from
30:53
a distance and then one day, I don't know what happened, one of
30:55
us reached out and was like now let's grab some lunch.
30:57
We're, you know, it seems like we're supposed to do this and we
31:00
did and we hit it off and we, you know, we've been in love
31:03
ever since. It's been, I want to, I want to
31:07
know who that first guy was heard that story.
31:10
I don't know. There was some areas Buddy
31:11
before me that denied you. Well, so we sat down at lunch
31:15
and and I started talking about the way that I think about
31:18
alcohol and the way that I feel like the our society and culture
31:22
thinks about it and how there's just this terrible disconnect
31:25
that's just serving so many people and Patricks, like yep.
31:28
Yep. Yep.
31:30
It's like alright. So I've got a podcast.
31:31
I want to do. Would you be a guest on it?
31:33
He's a course of course. And so that's how we started and
31:37
we finish up lunch and we drive off and within 30 Cans text.
31:42
And I was like, how about co-host?
31:45
And he's like, yep and it just kind of went from there and so
31:49
we just started talking about it and thinking about it and we
31:52
ended up, you know, getting production crew and it really
31:55
just expanded. But, you know, the the value and
31:58
telling all this is really about the mission and how we created
32:06
the mission was a, it was around everything.
32:08
We talked about it at the beginning of this conversation
32:10
and that we didn't want to talk about alcohol with shaming with
32:14
labels within the in the realm of addiction.
32:17
And do you have a problem? Because we knew that we weren't
32:20
going to reach a lot of people doing it that way.
32:22
Nobody wants to be, have their finger pointed out.
32:25
And that's and whether we're doing that or not, that's what
32:26
it feels like. When all you do is talk bad
32:29
about alcohol. So we were like, let's let's
32:31
find a different way to talk about it.
32:33
What if we talk about it, kind of through a wellness lens and
32:35
then it's just like a yeah, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't
32:38
but here's the science. And does this apply to you?
32:41
And maybe Does maybe it doesn't and that's how we started it
32:44
off. And it worked.
32:46
It worked people. Listen, love, it's crazy.
32:50
We'll hear your version of this. Yeah.
32:51
Well I can't help with everything, you know.
32:55
But you know, Robbie pays me reverse the roles small fees if
32:59
you can pretend it is. No, yeah, I mean, that was all
33:03
right on. Yeah.
33:05
I mean, this has been super cool.
33:06
It was like one of the things when I when Robbie texted me and
33:10
was like, hey will you be a co-host?
33:11
Host, I was like, you know, yeah, and I didn't expect it to,
33:17
you know, move as fast as it did.
33:19
It was like, you know, two weeks later, rented, a studio with a
33:23
production crew and there's cameras in our faces.
33:26
Yeah. And I was like, whoa, dude.
33:30
So yeah, it's been really neat to kind of and thank God for
33:35
Robbie and the rest of the team because I don't do anything
33:38
except really show up and and talk, I mean, they do all the
33:41
Back in stuff and take care of all the marketing and production
33:45
and all that. So it's been very very I've had
33:48
a really easy easy ride but it's just been awesome to be a part
33:53
of it. And, you know, I feel like I
33:56
feel like we've touched a lot of people that wouldn't wouldn't
34:01
have received that message. Otherwise.
34:03
I'm, I'm very aligned with our mission and this like more
34:09
inclusive way to look at this. This because I've always been
34:13
kind of obsessed ever since I got into recovery.
34:17
I was just kind of really taken back by all the like barriers
34:25
that are in place for people to engage in getting help and all
34:29
this kind of like things that are non-starters for a lot of
34:32
people not to mention the fact that we should be addressing
34:36
stuff way earlier than we are. And we don't do it.
34:39
Good job of getting people. Well, engaged and services, and
34:44
prevention and early intervention, it's like, you
34:49
know, one of the, one of the analogies always hear people use
34:53
just like we treat addiction, and alcoholism like, if you're
34:58
like a cancer patient, instead of like pre-screening or or
35:01
treatment, when you have stage 1, it's like, oh, we go now.
35:05
Hold on. We just got to wait for stage 4,
35:07
cancer to come in before Rebecca before we do any treatment and
35:11
it's It's always just been insane to me.
35:15
The fact that their hat, we haven't come up with a way to
35:19
get people engaged in early, you know, and do early interventions
35:22
that actually work instead of like trying to pigeonhole
35:26
somebody that's like a moderate, you know, made meet criteria for
35:30
mild or moderate use disorder and it's like, oh yeah, but
35:34
yeah, you really got, you gotta say your severe.
35:36
You gotta call yourself an addict and you gotta sit in all
35:39
these groups that you don't really need.
35:40
And, you know, No, you got to go to these meetings that you
35:44
despise and hate. Well, how do we come up with
35:47
something that meets those people where they're at, and
35:49
they can engage in because we just don't have a lot of stuff
35:53
like that. And I feel like there's a new
35:55
wave of of services and information and ways you know,
36:02
to help people that are kind of in that space.
36:04
And I think that's kind of been one of the things we've We've
36:09
been able to do great analogy though.
36:13
Yeah it's not know screenings and all of a sudden just just
36:15
wait until it's. Yeah.
36:17
So acute we get to thin the doctor's office now or it's like
36:20
they hand you that damn card with the blunt crayon that's
36:24
like oh you've thought about you know hurt yourself today and
36:28
then you know you fill it out and then the doctor just like
36:31
slings it on the table, it's one.
36:39
Anything on it. You know, though you haven't you
36:41
haven't seen that in the doctor's office.
36:42
Maybe I go to a doctor who is waiting until the person is
36:58
miserable, then treating the detox symptoms.
37:00
Sure. And said of like, we do here,
37:02
getting ahead of it, right? We get here and making them
37:05
comfortable right away, not to promote what we do here.
37:07
But it did make me think of that.
37:09
Well, and just that I mean that opens up a whole can of a
37:12
conversation of prevention versus treat.
37:15
Yes. All right I mean that's that's
37:18
arson ounce of prevention. Yeah.
37:19
I mean we're trying to put you out of business.
37:22
Well bleep, you know I say this at least you know five times a
37:25
week. I hope you never darken.
37:27
Our door. Is here all the time and I mean,
37:29
you know. Yeah.
37:31
But yeah I mean if that's the way we are man, that's we have
37:33
an obese culture. Yeah.
37:35
But we don't change our food system.
37:37
Yeah, right. Yeah, and we don't and we don't
37:40
treat that, it's ridiculous, not prevent it and we don't talk
37:43
about that. I mean addiction is like the
37:46
biggest Public Health crisis ever.
37:49
Yeah. Right now just been altered to
37:51
our phone. Yes.
37:52
All the cardiovascular stuff, all that stuff.
37:54
It's all addiction, addiction related D.
37:57
All in your work. And through the podcast, maybe
37:59
tangentially work with people who are, who have more process
38:04
addiction phone shopping gaming. I don't think that's it.
38:08
Common to admit these days. And I don't think people think
38:12
of it as an acute issue, right? I mean, it's something that
38:17
we've yet to see what its long-term effect.
38:20
So we're starting to see it in kids, anxiety, and depression,
38:26
you know? I mean, so partially, I mean, I
38:29
think in the work that we do in knowing that special, especially
38:33
because we Patrick and I both work more in the holistic space
38:38
kind Looking at the entire Wellness spectrum and, and
38:41
screen time is absolutely one of them.
38:43
Yeah, so we, you know, we certainly talk about that and
38:46
nutrition and you know, exercise and all those things, but
38:49
especially when you're talking with kids.
38:50
But but it's the same thing, the same thing goes with, like,
38:53
parenting. I mean, it's like, you know,
38:55
constantly telling my daughter to get off her phone while I'm
38:58
on my phone. Yeah, yeah.
39:02
We give me if you would both of you.
39:04
Just an example or two of people who you have reach to their
39:07
been, just a positive, Outcome from someone, whether you knew
39:10
them before. Not from chain from the podcast,
39:15
man. I mean phenytoin.
39:19
Yeah, tons like we get a, I mean, I get emails and messages,
39:22
I mean not daily. It's not, you know, packed but
39:26
we get really meaningful notes, you know, verbally and through
39:31
you know, digital messages of man.
39:34
I came across this and I was looking to, to dial it back or I
39:37
was looking to learn a A bit more about, you know, the
39:40
correlation between anxiety and alcohol and your podcast did
39:43
this for me and we get that a lot.
39:45
It's awesome. It's really cool, you're not.
39:47
It's very gratifying. I've run into multiple people
39:51
that I had relationships with in high school or college where I
39:55
hadn't seen him in 15 or 20 years.
39:57
Like I went to a alumni like football game at my high school
40:02
and a guy that I hadn't seen in 20 years, it was actually a guy.
40:06
My classes little brother. It was like four years younger
40:10
than me, walks up to me and shakes my hand.
40:13
He's like, hey man, I just want to let you know, I haven't had a
40:16
drink in a year and a half, it's awesome.
40:18
And he goes, I didn't go to treatment.
40:19
Like I'm not never considered myself an alcoholic and I don't,
40:24
I still don't but. But you know, I started
40:26
listening to your podcast and really started to question how
40:29
alcohol was affecting my life and I decided to put it down.
40:34
Is it was all because of listen your shelf so that's it and
40:38
that's I've had multiple and I know Robbie has two people
40:42
who've told me that it's it's really cool.
40:46
What do you say to somebody like that?
40:48
Other than I'm so glad to hear that.
40:50
But I mean in terms of sustained recovery of somebody's not, you
40:55
know, does it need the full monty, you know, like what I
40:59
need you know, which is a lot of work for me to stay sober and
41:03
relatively Serena. And who's not, they figure it
41:06
out because usually, you know, people in the saying that
41:10
demographic. But people that don't meet
41:13
criteria for severe issues, or they're doing it because they
41:19
can see the correlation of their alcohol use and having a
41:22
negative impact on their life. Once they actually stopped
41:26
drinking and they feel the full effects.
41:30
They can like tell I had lunch with the guy the other day.
41:33
That toe That equipped for a year, just the part of a like
41:38
Challenge. And then he had like two beers
41:40
one night as he reintroduced it and woke up the next day and was
41:44
like, never felt like total crap and he never realized, like, how
41:50
much of a negative impact it was having on him because he was
41:53
doing it every day and he was so used to it and it's like, it's
41:57
like cutting out sugar and yeah, sugar.
41:59
Yeah. It's like Terry.
42:00
Yeah. You feel like crap.
42:01
So it's once once you have if you have somebody that already
42:06
has their kind of life together and there and they have some
42:08
sort of external motivation to engage with life.
42:13
Once they cut alcohol out and realize like how much more
42:16
engaged they can be and how much more productive they are.
42:19
How much more present they are with their families.
42:22
They start to realize like, oh my god, I've been stuff and
42:24
suppressing all these emotions and unhealthily managing stress.
42:30
And now I have all these new Outlets to manage the stress and
42:33
they kind of get really Serious about it and they become you
42:37
know, more engaged and more holistic stuff.
42:39
It's like all that. I know I'm going to start a
42:40
meditation practice. Now, I'm going to do some ice
42:43
baths and, you know, now I'm going to go, you know, I'm going
42:46
to go exercise more next month. I'm going to, you know, start
42:49
training for a marathon and then they start the all this stuff
42:51
starts to snowball and they see the positive impacts of all this
42:54
stuff and it all started with them changing their relationship
42:58
to alcohol and they feel better. They start to realize that their
43:01
relationship with their families better.
43:03
Their marriage is getting better.
43:05
You're more productive at work and then it just, it starts to
43:08
build. Yeah, love all good.
43:11
Thank you. Yeah.
43:12
Thanks for having us. Yeah.