Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Adult Film Star Siri Dahl of "Money Shot: The Pornhub Story" Talks About PORN & So Much More!

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Adult Film Star Siri Dahl of "Money Shot: The Pornhub Story" Talks About PORN & So Much More! · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
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  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Welcome back to Misunderstood. Today,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: we are going to talk about porn. If you turn
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  Speaker 1: on Netflix right now, it would be hard to miss
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  Speaker 1: Money Shot, the Pornhub story. Trending in the top 10
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  Speaker 1: since its release, Money Shot, the documentary, is about the
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  Speaker 1: largest website in pornographic history and how it was started,
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  Speaker 1: the issues with consent that ensued, and the people at
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  Speaker 1: the center of it all. Today we're speaking with Siri Dahl,
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  Speaker 1: who was featured as one of the main sex workers
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  Speaker 1: in the film about what is misunderstood in the taboo
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  Speaker 1: industry of porn. She's appeared in over 200 films since
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  Speaker 1: 2012 and is also a sex workers rights activist. Thank
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  Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today.
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  Speaker 2: Hi, thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: So my first question is, how did you get your name,
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  Speaker 1: Siri Dahl?
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  Speaker 3: That's not your real name.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Which is funny.
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  Speaker 4: Cause they asked me that in the documentary and I
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  Speaker 4: just gave them like a joke answer.
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  Speaker 1: What did you say in the documentary?
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  Speaker 2: I was, I said, I said like, it's my first
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  Speaker 2: pet's name and the street I grew up on. Duh.
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  Speaker 1: Oh my God.
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  Speaker 2: Which is, I thought that was so obviously a joke.
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  Speaker 4: Cause I gave them a real answer, but they only
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  Speaker 4: edited in the joke because they probably wanted some comedic
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  Speaker 4: relief in the tweeted at me because they thought that
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  Speaker 4: I was being serious. And I was like, no.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, so you didn't come up with a name like that?
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  Speaker 1: Because my name would then be Moose Diamond. So that
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't sound so good.
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  Speaker 4: That would be a very interesting porn star name for sure.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So how did you come up with your porn star name?
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: The real story of how I came up with it
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  Speaker 4: is fairly straightforward. My background, my family's all Scandinavian. Um,
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  Speaker 4: so I'm like Swedish, Norwegian and Danish. And when I
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  Speaker 4: was brewing, like hatching my plan to get into the
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  Speaker 4: porn industry in like late 2011, I, at the time
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  Speaker 4: I wanted to do, to be a one name star,
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  Speaker 4: you know, there've been porn stars in the past who
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  Speaker 4: have one name and no surname, like Stoya, Seika, um,
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  Speaker 4: There's been a number of people like that. So I
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  Speaker 4: wanted that and then I wanted a name that represented
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  Speaker 4: my heritage and that could work in a lot of
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  Speaker 4: different languages. So I looked up common like women's names
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  Speaker 4: in Sweden and Norway and Siri was on most of
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  Speaker 4: the lists of like popular names. And I was like,
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  Speaker 4: that's perfect. It rolls right off the tongue. And so
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  Speaker 4: I made like my first Twitter account, bought a domain
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  Speaker 4: with that name. And literally like three months after I
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  Speaker 4: did that is when the first iPhone that had Siri
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  Speaker 4: on it was announced. And I was like, oh, but
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  Speaker 4: I already spent all this money on domains and stuff.
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  Speaker 4: So I'm not changing it, boo. And of course, over
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  Speaker 4: the years, I started to realize that was bad for SEO.
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  Speaker 4: So ultimately I did in 2020 add doll as a surname.
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  Speaker 1: Very cute. Well, I think it's a great name, actually.
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  Speaker 1: So tell me about your childhood. What did you aspire
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  Speaker 1: to be growing up and how did you get into
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  Speaker 1: this line of work or what made you decide to
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  Speaker 1: do that?
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  Speaker 4: I've always been a performer type for sure. I was
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  Speaker 4: I mean, I was begging my parents to bring me
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  Speaker 4: to auditions to like Annie, you know.
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  Speaker 2: When I was a kid.
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  Speaker 4: And they were as supportive, I think, as parents can be.
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  Speaker 4: But working full time, like they were not going to
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  Speaker 4: be stage parents, you know. They were like, good, you
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  Speaker 4: should do what you want and express yourself. But like,
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  Speaker 4: we're very limited in how we can like drive you
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  Speaker 4: around places all the time. So I was very into
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  Speaker 4: like theater. I was a very extroverted person, always have been.
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  Speaker 4: And I think like my youngest memories of like having
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  Speaker 4: a very strong feeling that I wanted to do something
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  Speaker 4: like that. I was like, I want to do that
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  Speaker 4: when I grew up was I wanted to be an
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  Speaker 4: SNL cast member. This is when I was like, you know, 11,
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  Speaker 4: 12 years old. That was the fully formed ideal in
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  Speaker 4: my mind. And of course, at that age, I didn't
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  Speaker 4: realize that I'm not inherently a hilarious person.
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  Speaker 2: I would be a terrible comedian, like terrible.
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  Speaker 4: I'm good at just making an ass of myself without
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  Speaker 4: any rhyme or reason, but that's not the kind of
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  Speaker 4: talent that one needs to do standup and improv.
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  Speaker 2: Sorry, go ahead.
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  Speaker 1: No, but what took you into... Like what was your
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  Speaker 1: first sexual experience or what got you into a sort
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  Speaker 1: of sexual path for performing?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: And so that it really does kind of, for me,
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  Speaker 4: it's like a natural flow of how I went from being,
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  Speaker 4: you know, an extroverted kid who always wanted to try
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  Speaker 4: new things and was always in whatever way, looking for
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  Speaker 4: some way to like express myself creatively. And of course,
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  Speaker 4: as I became an adult, I think I, What's interesting
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  Speaker 4: about my story that I think it's actually more common
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  Speaker 4: than a lot of people realize with sex workers, but
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  Speaker 4: it doesn't get talked about a lot, is just because
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  Speaker 4: you decide to do sex work doesn't mean that you
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  Speaker 4: were hypersexual as a teen. I was effectively celibate as
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  Speaker 4: a teen. I didn't even have sex for the first
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  Speaker 4: time in my life until I was.
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  Speaker 2: 18 years old. Um, I, what I was though was curious.
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  Speaker 4: I was a very, very curious teenager and I would,
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  Speaker 4: I read like all the books I could get my
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  Speaker 4: hands on about sex.
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to know more about sex. I wanted to
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  Speaker 2: be educated about it.
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  Speaker 4: And literally one of my childhood books is called, uh,
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  Speaker 4: deal with it. It's from this website called girl.com G
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  Speaker 4: U R L in like the late nineties, that book.
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  Speaker 2: Was my manual.
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  Speaker 4: I read everything in it and it had very detailed
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  Speaker 4: and medically accurate information about sex.
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  Speaker 2: So while I hadn't- You mean.
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  Speaker 1: Like how to do it? Positions? Like, what do you mean?
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: It was like tips on safe sex, like tips on consent.
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  Speaker 4: Like it was really ahead of its time for being
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  Speaker 4: a book that was published in, I think like 98
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  Speaker 4: or 99.
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  Speaker 2: And I loved that book.
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  Speaker 4: I bought it with a Barnes and Noble gift card
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  Speaker 4: that I got for Christmas when I was like 11. And,
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  Speaker 4: you know- My parents were like, looks, looks cool. It's
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  Speaker 4: not like they sat there and looked at it. If
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  Speaker 4: they had actually read it, they might've been like, this
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  Speaker 4: is a bit advanced, but they didn't. And honestly, I
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  Speaker 4: don't think that's bad because what I learned by being
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  Speaker 4: so curious and wanting to know as much as I
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  Speaker 4: could really about sex at a, like, I wouldn't say
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  Speaker 4: a young age. It was like a natural age, you know,
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  Speaker 4: when you're hitting puberty and you're curious. Um, what I
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  Speaker 4: learned is that I, um, basically I had such low
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  Speaker 4: expectations for becoming sexually active.
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  Speaker 2: That I had zero desire to do it.
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  Speaker 4: Like I had this under, I remember being a teenager
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  Speaker 4: and like having crushes on people in high school and
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  Speaker 4: really having no interest in like dating or having sex
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  Speaker 4: or even really like, I think I, I made out
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  Speaker 4: with like two people in my teen years because I
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  Speaker 4: just had this sense of like I don't feel like
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  Speaker 4: I'm fully ready for that. I definitely don't feel like
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  Speaker 4: I'm ready for full-on sex at all.
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  Speaker 2: And even when.
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  Speaker 4: I did do a little bit of fooling around, I
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  Speaker 4: was like 17, much older than most of my peers
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  Speaker 4: when they had started experimenting sexually. I was going to
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  Speaker 4: say that underlying all of this was also my developing
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  Speaker 4: sexual identity that I.
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  Speaker 4: I got teased, friendly, not like bullying, but like my
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: friends in high school would call me lumberjack in like
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  Speaker 4: a teasing kind way.
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  Speaker 2: They weren't being queerphobic, but.
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  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
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  Speaker 5: for it?
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  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
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  Speaker 6: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
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  Speaker 5: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
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  Speaker 3: It's Dunaidial.
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  Speaker 5: Where?
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  Speaker 6: Dunaidial.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: There's an accent on the E.
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  Speaker 5: Do you mean.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars.
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  Speaker 6: Lyft?
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: Please. You're going past Kimmage.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, Kimmage.
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  Speaker 1: No.
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  Speaker 3: Done Deal Cars.
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  Speaker 7: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
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  Speaker 6: I did.
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  Speaker 4: I wore flannel all the time and I had short hair.
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  Speaker 4: I had a pixie cut and I never wore makeup. So, like,
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  Speaker 4: I just looked like a lesbian.
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  Speaker 2: When I was a teenager.
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  Speaker 4: But I didn't identify that way. Like, I didn't... identify
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  Speaker 4: that way. I had never come out as gay to
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  Speaker 4: anyone in my family. But I mean, I think my
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  Speaker 4: friends knew something about me before I did, because shortly
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  Speaker 4: after I graduated high school and started to like feel
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  Speaker 4: more comfortable, like getting away from home, you know, away from,
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  Speaker 4: from like feeling like I had to explain things to
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  Speaker 4: my parents. And that's when I fully started to realize like, oh,
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  Speaker 4: I'm attracted.
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  Speaker 2: To women and men. And now that I've like.
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  Speaker 4: I can admit this to myself, you know, I started
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  Speaker 4: experimenting more with dating. And it wasn't until like my
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  Speaker 4: early 20s when I was around 2021 that I did
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  Speaker 4: fully get into experimenting sexually and wanting to try new
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  Speaker 4: things and have sex with different kinds of partners. And,
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: you know, I kind of look back and jokingly refer
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  Speaker 4: to that as like my slut phase, but it was
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  Speaker 4: more than that to me.
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  Speaker 2: It wasn't, it was, it was a process of self-discovery.
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  Speaker 4: And it, that is what led me to want to
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  Speaker 4: do sex work and to do porn was realizing that
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  Speaker 4: there was an opportunity in this, in the adult industry
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  Speaker 4: that would allow me to explore the limits of my
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  Speaker 4: own sexual uh personality in a in an environment that
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  Speaker 4: is uh more safe and controlled than like having sex
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  Speaker 4: with strangers for sure and that also would allow me
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  Speaker 4: to express myself creatively um could be a job for
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  Speaker 4: me that i thought you know i would probably be
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  Speaker 4: good at that because i'm already in.
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  Speaker 2: X like well at the time i would have said um.
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  Speaker 4: Extrovert, but now I also use the word exhibitionist because
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  Speaker 4: that is when I did start doing porn, I learned
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  Speaker 4: very quickly that I do have exhibitionist tendencies.
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  Speaker 2: One of the things I like about what I.
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  Speaker 4: Do is the feeling of being observed or seen, you know?
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  Speaker 1: Interesting.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So did you have a regular job when you finally
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  Speaker 1: went into porn?
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  Speaker 4: So I'd had, I'd worked, you know, I'd had jobs
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  Speaker 4: here and there since I was in high school. But
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  Speaker 4: it's not like, I was still in college too. So
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  Speaker 4: they were really like part-time side jobs. None of them,
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  Speaker 4: this was not, I would say that the first real
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  Speaker 4: career that I had was when I started in porn
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  Speaker 4: at 23 and a half.
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  Speaker 1: And when your friends and family found out that this
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: was your new career, what were their thoughts?
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  Speaker 2: They were very upset.
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  Speaker 4: They were well, initially they were upset because I hadn't
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  Speaker 4: told them the real reason that I moved to California.
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  Speaker 2: I had made up some other lie.
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  Speaker 4: I had said that I was like, Oh, I'm moving
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  Speaker 4: to California. Cause I got accepted to transfer to the
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: different location of the place where I was working. Um,
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  Speaker 4: and my intention was to go out cause I was
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  Speaker 4: living in Texas before that. So, uh, my family, everyone
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  Speaker 4: was all in Texas at the time. And I, my
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: intention was to move out to California. to at least
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: get my first couple professional shoots under my belt. And
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: once I knew for sure how I felt about it
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  Speaker 4: and that I felt confident it was going to stick,
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  Speaker 4: then I was going to tell my family what I
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: was really doing in California. But I should have known
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: better because this is how everything tends to go, right?
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  Speaker 4: I didn't get the chance to give them my like
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  Speaker 4: well thought through statement about my career choice.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Someone that... is friends with someone else that.
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  Speaker 4: I went to like high school with, heard some rumor
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  Speaker 4: through the grapevine and immediately told someone in my family.
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  Speaker 4: So they all found out when I'd only been out
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  Speaker 4: in California for like a month, like my first professional
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  Speaker 4: shoot that I had filmed hadn't even been released to
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: the public yet.
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  Speaker 2: And everyone found out.
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  Speaker 4: So they were pissed. And I think, you know, that was,
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  Speaker 4: this is 20, early 2012. So 10 years ago that
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  Speaker 4: all that happened. And it was a mix of them
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: being angry that I was doing porn at all for one,
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  Speaker 4: but I think a lot more of their anger and frustration.
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  Speaker 2: Was because I had lied to them about it. Right.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: And that made it so much worse.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: And what's your relationship with your family now?
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  Speaker 2: It's fantastic now.
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Um, you know, it's been a journey, uh, And we
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: might get into questions that delve further into this little segment,
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: but I think it's very relevant to the development of
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: that relationship and my family's.
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  Speaker 2: Relative acceptance of what I do for a living.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: And I will say some people in my family don't
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  Speaker 4: love it still, but they at this point respect me
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: as a person and they accept my choice, even though
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: it's not the choice that they would prefer, if that
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: makes sense.
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  Speaker 1: But I love that for you.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: But I did retire. I, I started in porn in 2012,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: was actively performing for three years. And in the year 2015,
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: I announced that I was retiring and I moved across
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: the country and I was completely out of the industry
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: for five years. Um, didn't touch it, didn't film anything.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Like I had deleted all my socials.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Uh, What made you do that? You became a civilian again?
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I became a civilian again.
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what people in the adult industry, we call
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: non-adult workers, civilians.
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: Oh, really?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. And what made you do that?
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: It was a, well, there were several reasons, but honestly,
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: the biggest one was that I was in a really
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: terrible and abusive relationship that had started before I had
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: gotten into the adult industry. And so the person that
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: I had been with, he had been alongside me while
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: I was building this career for myself. And he knew
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: everything about me personally. He knew everything about my business
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: and how I ran my business. And when the abuse
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: started to get increasingly worse and I started going to
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: therapy and realizing like I have to extricate myself from
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: this horrible, codependent, abusive relationship.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I realized that.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: My career would be the collateral damage, essentially, because there
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: was no way that I could see myself.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Divorcing him because we were married.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: There's no way I can see myself divorcing him and
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: creating the life and the space that I needed for
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: myself to be able to heal while continuing my career
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  Speaker 4: because he already had his hands, his little claws so
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  Speaker 4: deep into it. So I was like, I, you know,
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: at the time I was thinking I'm just going to
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: have to throw away my whole career and like move
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: away and start over again to get away from this person.
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  Speaker 4: Because if I try to keep my career in porn,
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: I will never get rid of him. Like he will
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: take me to court, try to say that he's, he
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  Speaker 4: owns 50% of my business or something.
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  Speaker 2: And like it, I just didn't have the capacity to
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  Speaker 2: deal with all that.
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  Speaker 4: So I made a hard decision and it turned out
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: it was the right one. I honestly think I needed
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: the five years to myself for mental health anyway.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. And you're out of that relationship and you've moved on.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: So I want to get back to your first experience
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: in the adult film industry. Do you remember making your
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: first movie?
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  Speaker 2: I do.
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  Speaker 1: What was that like?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: It was very fun. It was so, it was such
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: a crazy day.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I would have thought, weren't you nervous?
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: No, I wasn't super nervous.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: I had like, I, before I, um, actually got out
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: to LA and started filming stuff. I had like gone
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: to swinger clubs to like, I'd gone to Europe and
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: like watched like a sex.
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: for it?
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that dad has connections with. They have
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: It's Dune ADL.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: Where?
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Dune ADL. There's an accent on the E.
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: Do you mean.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Lift, please.
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: You're going past Kimmage.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, Kimmage.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: No.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Done Deal Cars.
• 17:44
  Speaker 7: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Performance on stage at one point.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: So I'd been in like those sexually charged environments a
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: few times before to the degree that like I... felt
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: like I got this under control.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: So you'd seen performances of other people, so to speak,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: so you knew what to do. Had you seen, had
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you watched porn? Did you know what to do?
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I'd watched a lot of porn.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: I will say that the kind of porn that I
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: immediately started performing in wasn't really the kind that I consumed.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I would say that's still true today.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Tell me more about what you mean by that.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: Um, well, as a, as a, I identify as bisexual
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: or queer, um, either term is fine for me, but, uh,
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: I never had much interest in watching, um, extremely like
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: heteronormative porn, um, for, I mean, both because the people
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: that are typically featured in those aren't necessarily the kind
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: of people that I would be attracted to, but also
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: just because of like sort of the gender role and like,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: and like these dynamics playing out, I didn't always feel
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: like a connection to that. Um, so most of the
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: porn that I was consuming prior to getting into porn
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: myself was exclusively queer porn, which is like a whole
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: different category. There's a lot more overlapping currently now in
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: the industry between like all different kinds of content creators
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: and people of different genders and orientations blending together when
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: we make our content.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: But back in 2012, that was very much not the case.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: So what is it like making gay porn?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: No, that's okay. What, what is it like making a
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: movie and being on a set like that? Like I
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: can't imagine even people watching me have sex. I'm trying
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to imagine what it's like. And I, In the film
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: and parts of Money Shot, they show you making a porn.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: So and I was sort of cringing watching this happen.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Cause you know, you're with the two guys and I'm like,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: how do they get in the mood with all these
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: people there?
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: And it's getting secondhand anxiety. Yeah.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: And I was just like sweating for you. I just,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: it's like, and the lighting's not good and there's no
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: music and oh God, you just met, it looked like
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: you just met those people right before. I mean, and
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't know if that was better or worse, if
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: you knew them before or if you didn't, I don't know. You,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: you tell me.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: What you're Sometimes, I mean, I've been around long enough
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: now in the industry that usually when I'm working with someone,
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: unless they're new to the industry, I already.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Have worked with them or I know them online.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: Like I follow them on Twitter and I understand their
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: presence or the kind of person they are generally enough
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: that it feels like there's a rapport that exists. So
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: it's fairly rare that I work with someone I've never
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: worked with before now. But like going back to that,
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: the first scene I shot, was for a company called
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: Reality Kings, which is, it is owned by MindGeek, the
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: company in the documentary. And it was a very easy day.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: It was like, as at the time, I didn't have
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: any point of reference, of course, but looking back now,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: I'm like, that was one of the easier scenes. Like
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: they definitely knew like, oh, it's her first scene. Like
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: we will make this, they made it as easy as possible.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: The male talent was, he's a Canadian performer named Voodoo. Um,
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: he's not really performing anymore. Um, but he was absolutely wonderful.
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: Like respectful was very helpful for me, like helping me
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: understand like why in, in porn, you see people having
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: sex in a certain position, you know, and it, the
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: way that the bodies are arranged in porn tends to
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: look way different than it would in real life.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Like for like a missionary.
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: And that's because you have to hold your body in
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: a way so the camera can see the action.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, right.
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Okay. You know? Yeah.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: You don't want to block the light or, you know,
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: create an angle that the camera can't see anything that's happening.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: Um, and a lot of, especially with straight porn, a
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: lot of the positions are also meant to sort of
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: put the, the woman on display and to minimize the, uh,
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: the male body being visible or like blocking the woman's
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: body or in front of the camera. And that's, that's
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: a part of this whole thing that I was saying
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: about like some porn is very heteronormative, which isn't.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: My style personally.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: I'm more than happy obviously to perform in those, but
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: they're just not necessarily what I want to watch.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: So, and how much of this is pure acting? Like,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: are you just like groaning and making the moves to,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: get through it? And is it just so painful and awful?
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Or are you like totally enjoying it and having an
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: orgasm most of the time?
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: For me, it's, it's very little when it comes to the,
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: the sex part. Cause I do scenes that are scripted
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: where there is like a level of acting there or
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: character building. And then there, so it's kind of depends
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: on the type of scene, because if it is like
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: a character driven scene, then it's, I might literally be
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: acting during the sex because some scenes, the whole point
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: is that they want us to remain in character for
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: the entirety of.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: The scene, including the sex.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I would think that's almost easier than being you.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: It's kind of, it can't, it can't, it depends on
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: the character, I guess, or what the storyline is. Because
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: for me, it's like, It's harder for me to stay
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: in character when I'm also like really enjoying the sex
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: because then it's like that subconscious like enjoyment, like body
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: language and sounds might come out.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: And then I'm like.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: Oh no, my character wouldn't do that. Like I'll make
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: little like guttural growling.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Sounds sometimes during like in real life during sex.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: And so like if I'm playing a character that like
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: would never do that, I have to kind of censor
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: myself in a way that I don't usually for other
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: types of scenes. But I would say that with the
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: exception of those character-driven things, all the sex that I
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: have for work on camera really is pretty much the
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: way I am in real life. Sometimes I might exaggerate
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: it a bit for the viewer or to drive a
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: point home more. For example, I don't really say, oh,
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: I'm coming or I'm about to come. I don't really
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: say that in real life, especially not with my actual partner.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: Because we've been together for years and I don't, he
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: doesn't need me to tell him when I'm getting close.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: He knows.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: But in a porn scene, of course, like, you know,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: usually it's almost like a courtesy to say that because
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: then it alerts, literally it tells the camera crew like, oh,
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: she's close to coming. Now let's shift and get the
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: angle of like the face or like whatever. So it's
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: kind of communicating with everyone in the room and not
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: just the person that I'm actually having sex with in
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: that moment.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Right. So now I've always wondered this about porn stars.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: How are you, and tell me if I'm asking too
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: close of a question, but how are you intimately with
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: your boyfriend as opposed to on screen? I mean, are
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: you a totally different person?
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: I would definitely not say that I'm a totally different person,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: but there is a lot more, there's so much more
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: intimacy with the sex.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: That I have with my partner.
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: There's like a shorthand, like a sexual shorthand that we
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: have with each other where just like a certain type
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: of vocal inflection or physical touch will communicate a whole
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: bunch of things that obviously someone who's had sex with
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: me twice would not understand.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: But my demeanor on screen, whether I'm having sex with
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: my fiance or with.
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: for it?
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They've more
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch.
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: What's it called?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: It's Dune-A-D-L.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: Where?
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Dune-A-D-L. There's an accent on the E.
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: Do you mean.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Lift? Please.
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: You going past Kimmage?
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, Kimmage.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Dundale Cars.
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: Someone I met last week and we got hired for
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: a scene together.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: My general demeanour is... pretty much the same.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: So you're dating somebody?
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: We got engaged, uh, in like October and we've been
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: together for four and a half years, just about.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Congratulations.
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Um, now obviously this hasn't, it doesn't sound like it's
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: had an effect negatively on your relationship, but I can
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: see why it might on some relationships. Um, how has
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: it been okay on yours and how does he not
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: get jealous when you're with other people?
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: Well, Okay, so it helps that he is also a
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: performer of a sort because he doesn't really perform in
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: studio stuff.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: So I would say that classifies him as.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: Maybe more of an amateur performer as opposed to a
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: professional studio performer. Part of why he hasn't done a
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: lot of studio work is because he's got me, you know,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: like we, especially when COVID started and everything was shut
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: down and I had just come out of retirement and
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: shot my like big comeback scene and announced that I'm
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: returning to porn in January, 2020. And so I've got,
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: I had three good months and then COVID hit everything
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: shut down. So I couldn't go out to LA for
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: my shoots anymore. And at, and by that point, my
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: partner and I hadn't ever like, He hadn't had sex
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: on camera.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: With me or anyone else in his life.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: And he was already aware that, you know, I was
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: making my porn comeback and he was like fully supportive
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: of that. But then I sat him down and I
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: was like, how would you feel about performing in some
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: scenes with me on camera? Like, you don't even have
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: to show your face. Like, you know, we don't have
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: to go too crazy with it, but like, it would
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: be great for me to be able to get some
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: content for like OnlyFans. since I have no other options
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: currently until the pandemic's under control. And I really underestimated
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: him because I was like, so careful about positioning this question.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: And he, it was like, he barely let me finish
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: the sentence and he was like, yeah, let's do it.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: So yeah, he, he was like my personal male performer
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: on camera. And over the years as he's gotten to
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: know the industry more and more and like met other
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: people in the industry and he comes out to LA
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: with me on my trips often like now he does
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: make his own content as well um and I think
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: I also forgot to say this because it's completely irrelevant
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: but even early on when we first started dating we
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: agreed right off the bat that we didn't want to
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: be monogamous oh and and And that was like a
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: philosophical agreement that we had that wasn't that we both
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: felt it wasn't the goal of our relationship was to
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: be monogamous forever. We both felt like we wanted it
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: to be open. And so it did, we kind of
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: already had like a good basis for like the type
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: of relationship that we have now because it kind of
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: began there.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: That way.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think as long as you're open and honest
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: about your agreement going into it, then you're not stepping
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: into any potholes going forward.
• 29:24
  Speaker 6: Exactly.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: You touched on something, the difference between a porn professional
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and the elevated amateur kind of going into the fact that,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: especially with COVID, everyone became a quote unquote professional with OnlyFans.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about literally what the difference is. And
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: then I want to get into how I can become
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: an OnlyFan star.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: So there's a couple of ways that you could define
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: it as someone who has spent, you know, the better
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: part of 10 years working in studio productions, as well
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: as making my own content. There is a different approach
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: when you are a performer who works with studio productions.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: And the biggest difference there is the amount of infrastructure
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: provided for the creation of that content. When you go
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: to a set for a studio, studios have bigger budgets.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: It's like a Hollywood film. Not that big of a
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: budget like a Hollywood film, but bigger than an individual
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: would have making their own content.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So it's far more of a production.
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: You're seeing the full professional production end of things from
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: start to finish. There's a lighting guy, there's a sound
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: guy or girl. There's people of all genders working behind
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: the scenes. But yeah, so it's like working with a
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: real film crew as opposed to on a more amateur
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: level where you're doing self-created content.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: A lot of amateurs do produce films.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Very professional looking content, but it's just not quite the
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: same thing as like working for a studio. I mean,
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: a big thing that I have that's like that I
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: see being a difference is just geography, really, because most
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: of the porn production in the US is taking place
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: in and around Los Angeles and Las Vegas. So for
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: people who are content creators or who are making porn,
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: whether they consider themselves amateur or professional, there's not really
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: a production center in, well, Miami actually does have production too.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I forgot that one, but.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: Outside of those three cities, There's not really a lot
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: of production happening. So if you are producing, you're probably
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: in a very small community and working literally by yourself
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: or with like just a small crew of people that
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: are all the same people working all the time.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: So now talk to me about OnlyFans. Like this is
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: like the place where people are quitting their nine to
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: five job and they are selling everything from their body
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: to just like pictures of their feet.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Pay for literally the mortgage on their house. Tell me
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: how to do that so I don't have to work anymore.
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: The biggest misconception actually about OnlyFans is that people will
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: make an account and start putting content on there and
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: just make tons of money right off the bat. I
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: will say that there was more evidence of that actually
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: happening early on in COVID because of how much OnlyFans
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: blew up when everyone was at home on their computers
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: all day.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: So that totally made sense.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: But I think that that skyrocketing usage of OnlyFans has
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: not plateaued, but it's evened out. It's more like a
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: normal now than it was there in 2020. But I
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: think it's definitely a misconception that it's like, oh, anyone
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: can do it on OnlyFans. It's like a lot of
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: people can do it. There is literally there's space for everyone.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: It's not so important what body type you have or
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: like if you're like supermodel gorgeous or whatever like there's
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: a place for everyone but what doesn't get talked about
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: a lot is like how much work it is because
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: OnlyFans doesn't have any like real useful discover feature so
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: if you're a creator who wants to make money on
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: there the only way that you will get eyeballs on
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: that content and get.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: People to actually buy it or subscribe.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Is if you bring your own traffic which means you
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: basically have to start with having a a lot of
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: followers on some other platform, like on Instagram, Twitter, Reddit,
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: or something like that. Cause you have to drive traffic
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: from an external source to your only fans.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Or you have to set yourself apart. Like for you,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: you offer dick ratings, which I think is very entrepreneurial.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Tell us about that.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: It's very funny because when I first started out on
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: my OnlyFans account, I did not initially offer dick ratings.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: And I started offering them when fans started asking for them.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Very, very frequently. And it never in a million years
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: would have occurred.
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: for it?
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: It's Dune ADL.
• 34:18
  Speaker 6: Where?
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Dune ADL? There's an accent on the E.
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: Do you mean.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Lyft?
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: You going past Kimmage?
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, Kimmage!
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: No.
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: Done Deal Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: For me to voluntarily start telling men on the internet, like,
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: you should give me money to look at a picture
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: of your dick and give it a rating... But it
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: turns out a lot of men really wanted me to
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: do that. So I standardized it and figured out a
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: good pricing model and started just offering that as a
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: typical sale through my OnlyFans. And it is still one
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: of my top selling items on OnlyFans is the dick ratings.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I love it. It's very fun for me. And also,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I'm very honest about my dick ratings.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: And I'm also very honest with my fans about the
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: fact that most of the time what I'm rating isn't
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: necessarily the dick itself as much as like.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: The context around it. Meaning the bubbles? Well, one guy, okay.
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: So here's, so like an automatic like zero on a
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: dick rating for me would be if a guy sends
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: me a dick pic where he's like standing over the
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: toilet and I can see the toilet bowl. Like, why
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: would you do that, sir?
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Because I've gotten that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: He has to have some nice surroundings.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, you got to put effort in. Don't
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: send me your weird toilet pic. Oh my God.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Wait, so talk to me for a second about what
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: kind of content you were doing and what kind of
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: money you were making up until the point that you
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: found out about Pornhub and that site. Explain to people
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: how helpful Pornhub was in you making money.
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: It was a great source of side income, I would say.
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: even though it has incredible traffic on Pornhub, um, back
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: on the model hub side, which we talked about in
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: the documentary, which is the, like it's tied into the
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: Pornhub site, but model hub is kind of the sub
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: site that allows models to just sell their own clips. Like,
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: so like you charge whatever you want for one video
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: and the person pays with a credit card and they
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: download it. Um, And that one never was as huge
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: of a moneymaker for me as OnlyFans. And I think
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: most other performers I've talked to.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Have said the same. But what it was, was consistent.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: It was very consistent because of how much traffic is
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: visiting Pornhub every day. And also it was fantastic for
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: marketing because it would tie in.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: So I could cut a trailer of one of my videos.
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: Like I would have like a 40 minute sex scene
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: that I filmed that I'm going to sell for like $ 15.
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: And I could cut a two to three minute trailer of,
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: of that same sex scene, put it for free on Pornhub.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: And then within the settings on my.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: Clip that I've uploaded for that trailer, there's a box
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: that says, is this video for sale.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: On Model Hub?
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: And you check yes. And then you pick which video
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: correlates to the trailer. So anyone who watches the free
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: three minute video on Pornhub automatically sees a button underneath
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: it that says you can buy this clip, the full version.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: So it was really, really good for conversions and sales.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: So you would give a trailer to like whet their
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: appetite and then they could watch the full one if
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: they paid for it.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And it was fantastic.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: And it was, like I said, I didn't net as
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: much income from Model Hub and Pornhub as I have
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: consistently from OnlyFans, but it was consistent. And like, it
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: wasn't enough to pay my mortgage every month, but it
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: was enough to certainly help.
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: And like, and that's gone. And we've never gotten that back.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: Not ever since December, 2020 after MasterCard made their decision.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: So explain to listeners and viewers what happened there and
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the whole Pornhub issue and, and what happened for people
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: that haven't seen the show yet, the documentary yet.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: So in December, 2020, early December, a New York times article,
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: columnist Nick Kristoff wrote an op-ed, an opinion piece that
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: was published about Pornhub. And he quoted me, he quoted
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: two words I said in it. But essentially it was
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: the adult industry has long viewed it as like more
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: of like a hit piece, which is not at all
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: to take away from the actual real stories of victims
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: who have had like illegal content of theirs shared online.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: So much as when we.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: Say that as an industry, we're really referring to the
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: way that that article was shared and portrayed like it's
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: a piece of investigative journalism when it was an opinion
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: piece that had no fact checking or sources in it
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: at all. And the main voices that were platformed saying
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: that Pornhub needed to be censored and lose their payment
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: processing capability are this organization called Exodus Cry, which is
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: very much part of the conversation in the Netflix documentary is.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: So the effect of that article, it was just like.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: A bombshell hit. And my Twitter exploded. Everyone's Twitter was exploding.
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: It was really rough. And there were just immediately calls
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: for Visa and MasterCard to pull out of their relationship
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: with Pornhub.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Which happened pretty quickly.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: It was like, I don't remember exactly how long, but
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: it was like days or like a week later that
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: MasterCard terminated that relationship they had with Pornhub, which just
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: the immediate effect of that was that people like me
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: who sell our content on there lost that entirely.
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: So the story was called The Children of Pornhub, right?
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: And what the intent I think was to talk about
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: it was totally different than people like you who, who
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: were putting your content on the site on purpose.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Consensually, but there were some people whose content was on
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: the site that was put on there, not, consensually and
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: it was you know pictures of them that were naked
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: or videos of them that they had sent to former
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: boyfriends or people they they had been raped by allegedly
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: or whatever and that stuff was on there not consensually
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: and and they were underage apparently and they you know
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: this was what the article was about so the backlash
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: to shut down porn hubs became so bad that MasterCard
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: and Visa, I think, pulled their credit card processing with
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: the company. And the backlash affected sex workers because this
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: was your livelihood. So not only did it affect the
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: people that it meant to affect, which was the people
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: that were involved in the sex trafficking and the kids,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: but it also affected people that wanted to be there.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: So it was a question of consent. So that's what
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the documentary is, is about. And, um, I think you
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: did a really good job on that, you know, um, explaining,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you know, the difference between sex trafficking and sex workers
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: and why you guys needed it. And, and, you know,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: and the difference, I mean, consent is a really big
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: conversation piece that people should be having. And, and the
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: topic of pornography is so taboo for a lot of
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: people that people don't want to hear all sides, but
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: of course when kids are involved, um, And things are
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: out there without your consent. I think people forget all
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: the other parts of the puzzle that you don't want
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: to shut down, right?
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: So there were so many parts to it that they
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: just wanted to shut down altogether. to it. People should
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: see the documentary because I think it's very good.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: Please. I've been telling my friends, because I'm in it
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: and I got the early screener copy in February, I've
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: watched it so many times. I think I've watched it
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: 10 times by now. I already knew all the facts
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: of this thing going into it. Still, every time I
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: watch it, I have a new thing that I realize
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: about it. Or something hits me different.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: And there, it really is.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: There's, it's a 94 minute documentary and there's so much
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: information packed into it that if you watch it once,
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: you literally might just like not grab onto something. So
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: I don't, who really watches documentaries twice?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I get it. I think it's really
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: interesting and people, you know, I'm glad it's out there
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: because people should, should definitely watch it, but you weren't
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: coerced into making your content, right?
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, not at all.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: No, I was, I was over the moon about finally
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: like getting to do something that I had wanted to
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: do for like a couple of years. Cause when I
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: first had the idea of doing porn, I was like
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: 20 and I didn't actually take any action on that
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: until I was 23.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: So I was like, yes, my dreams are being realized.
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: And, you know, I think there's something to be said
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: maybe for like making a choice, like performing in adult
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: films when you've had opportunities outside of graduating high school
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: and you've had a little bit of lived experience, like I,
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to sound too judgmental saying it.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: Cause I, you know, I have friends in the industry
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: who started like when they were 18, right out of
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: high school and they're doing well and they still love
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: what they do. But I've, I've seen enough examples as
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: well of people who, who jump into it without thinking
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: too hard.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: And then.
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: Leave the industry because they're unhappy. And a lot of
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: the time from what I've seen, it's not so much
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: that they had like explicitly bad experiences in porn. It's
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: that they weren't mature enough to literally handle the stigma
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: that comes with being a sex worker.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: It is a lot. And it takes a whole lot
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: of emotional maturity.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: And like literally every, I tell everyone, everyone, in general
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: that everyone needs therapy, but sex workers especially need access
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: to like nonjudgmental therapy and counseling. Uh, cause it can
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: be so much to deal with what society kind of
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: puts on us, you know, especially when you're not prepared
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: for it.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. What do you think is the most misunderstood thing
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: about your industry that you want people to know?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Um, man, that's a really good question.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: I guess, cause there's so many, um, but, I think
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: kind of like piggybacking on one of the themes of
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: the documentary or something that's kind of underlying that is
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: never said explicitly, but I feel like you get the
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: vibe of this from watching Money Shot, is that.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Sex workers are not a monolith.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: A lot of people, especially those who are against porn
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: or think that it's inherently bad in some way, talk
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: about porn and sex workers like, like we are this monolith,
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: you know? It kind of like comes across that way,
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: even when they read the like text of the civil
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: suit case against Pornhub, like sex workers are, all different
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: kinds of people from all different backgrounds, the range of
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: income that you see just in sex workers who are
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: doing online content like porn stars is wild. So I
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: just tell people, you have to remember that we're all human,
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: just like everyone else in this world. And it doesn't
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: really serve anyone well to make sweeping generalizations about what
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: sex workers are or what we do. I think a
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: common one, for example, is that a lot of women
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: who do sex work got into it because of some
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: form of abuse that led them there or that they're
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: abused because they're doing sex work now. And that one's
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: always been one of the top stereotypes to bother me
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: because like if you are even remotely paying attention to
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: like the conversations in our culture of the last like
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: couple of decades, then you might've heard the statistic that
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: one in five women is abused in her lifetime. So I,
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: whenever people tell me that I'd like look around and
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, if one in five women is a
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: victim of abuse, like then, this statistically doesn't make sense
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: because if you're telling me that all sex workers choose
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: this because of abuse, then shouldn't one in five women
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: be sex workers? I'm like, no, that's not, it's not
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: a cause and effect. It's just, yes, abuse unfortunately happens
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: more than it should. And it doesn't happen because someone's
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: a sex worker. It happens because.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Misogyny.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: With Roe versus Wade being overturned, you become an activist.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: How has it made you change on how you perform?
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: It hasn't changed personally how I perform because I already
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: knew that I didn't want kids and I've kind of
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: lived my adult life with that assumption. So like when
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: it comes to having sex with other people on film,
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: like I've, I always have had an IUD and I
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: just got approval from my gynecologist to actually do a
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: tubal ligation surgery next year, which I'm very excited about.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't impact.
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: Me deeply on a personal level as a performer, but
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: the community of performers and adult is quite large and
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: also leans pretty young as well. So like, it's just
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: extra not fair to, for women who are sex workers
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: to have to put up with this additional risk of
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: like potentially not being able or allowed legally to make
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: your own choices about your body and your healthcare. And
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think that bodily autonomy is very deeply
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: intertwined with the concept of sex work and, and being
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: a sex worker. It's like consent takes precedent over all else.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: So my bodily autonomy is incredibly.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Important to me.
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: And, you know, I, I wish it were important to
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: everyone in this world, but clearly that's not the case.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: My final question to you is if you weren't doing
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: this for a living, what would you be doing?
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's fun. I think I would still be doing
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: something creative. I don't know. The sky's the limit.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: You know, when I was in college, I was briefly
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: a radio TV film major because I was like.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I want to be, I want to be the next
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Ira Glass.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: So maybe, maybe that, maybe I'd be working my way
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: up the ladder at NPR.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 48:56
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Tell me your social media platforms.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: I'm on most socials. So like Instagram and Twitter at
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: the Siri doll, S-I-R-I-D-A-H-L. And then just siridoll.com or you
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: just Google my name and all my links come up.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: wish you the best of luck. I think you're great.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Rachel.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: And everybody should watch Netflix Money Shop. Okay, take care.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 49:37
  Speaker 8: Thank you for listening to The Misunderstood Podcast with host
• 49:41
  Speaker 8: Rachel Yucatel, executive producer Kelly Brink. If you have an
• 49:46
  Speaker 8: episode suggestion or would like to reach out for collaboration
• 49:49
  Speaker 8: and sponsorship opportunities, email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast at gmail.com. That's infomisunderstoodpodcast,
• 49:59
  Speaker 8: all one word, at gmail.com. Be sure to like and
• 50:03
  Speaker 8: subscribe everywhere you get your podcasts and leave us a
• 50:07
  Speaker 8: five-star rating and review because it helps the show so much.
• 50:11
  Speaker 8: Watch full videos of each and every episode of Misunderstood
• 50:14
  Speaker 8: on YouTube at Misunderstood Podcast. See you next time.
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: for it?
• 50:28
  Speaker 6: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: It's Dunaidial.
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: Where?
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: Dunaidial. There's an accent on the E.
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: Do you mean.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: Lift?
• 50:47
  Speaker 5: Please. Are you going past Kimmage?
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, Kimmage.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: No.
• 50:51
  Speaker 7: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.