Latest / The Twin History Podcast / Why the World Went to War: The Road to 1914 Part 3

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Why the World Went to War: The Road to 1914 Part 3 · The Twin History Podcast

0:01
The Twin History Podcast brings together 2 Black Scotsman, 2
0:06
twins, 1 historian and one storyteller to explore the
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moments that shaped our world. The show features Joe McCann,
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the eldest twin and resident storyteller, the one always
0:20
asking why any of this shit actually matters, alongside
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Johnny McCann, 13 minutes younger, and the historian
0:29
equipped with the dates, the fact and the receipts, Every
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week they invite listeners to pull up a chair as they unpack
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some of history's greatest tales, The ones you think you
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know, the ones you've never heard, and the ones that hit
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different when told by them. Enjoy.
1:57
This is the Twin History podcast today we're going to be
2:00
discussing. The First World War.
2:02
This is. Part three of our deep.
2:04
Dive into that topic, Johnny. Anything to say?
2:07
Yeah, I just hope you guys are still with us after all the the
2:11
dreadful Browns German pronunciations in the last
2:15
couple of episodes. They're certainly not with us
2:18
and I don't think they've ever been with us so.
2:20
Yeah, maybe not. I mean, we did, I think we did
2:23
German at school, but if you weren't good at it, you weren't
2:25
allowed to take after second year.
2:26
But that's all changed now with Scottish Skills where they
2:31
encourage learners to take languages all the way through
2:35
until they're seniors. But it is more expansive these
2:38
days because you can get to do Cantonese, you can get to do
2:43
Mandarin, Spanish, Spanish, Japanese.
2:46
And I always tell our learners and learn as many languages as
2:50
you can because in that sense, connected bottles, you could
2:53
work anywhere in the globe. You can even work from home in
2:56
your office and work for a company and like China or Japan.
3:02
Or somewhere. Well my wife she speaks 4
3:05
languages and one of those languages is German, so we may
3:08
ask her to jump on the pod at one section.
3:11
Yeah, but and. From what I remember at school
3:15
you you didn't get to take German unless you were good at.
3:17
French so if you. You pass French, they'd let you
3:20
take German. Really.
3:21
I mean, that's not how it should have been.
3:23
I mean, I mean, you might have been better one lineage than the
3:26
other. But anyway that that's an aside.
3:29
Yeah, that is an aside. So we're back today chatting
3:32
about the First World War. And specifically the causes of
3:37
the First World War. Johnny hates when it's called
3:39
World War One, as you learned in the last episode, but we won't
3:42
call it that today just to not annoy him.
3:45
But we'll try. OK, what we're, what we're
3:48
discussing today, Johnny, the first thing is the arms race.
3:51
Is that correct? Yeah, the arms race, and
3:53
specifically the naval race between Britain and Germany, the
3:58
Orange. Race.
3:58
Let's get into it. Yeah, Leicester.
4:04
Go on then. So if you're if you're joined on
4:08
our lesson to our last episode, you'll remember that we we
4:11
showed that military spending had increased across Europe and
4:17
the years leading up to the the First World War.
4:21
Yeah, I can't remember. All those.
4:22
Figures off the top of my head, but it was in the billions in in
4:27
if you were adjusting for inflation for today's money.
4:32
Yeah, perhaps. Well, it definitely was.
4:35
So let's get into the arms race in in great detail then, Johnny
4:41
how did the angle German naval race poison relations between
4:45
Germany and Britain? Before the outbreak of.
4:48
War in 1914? Well.
4:49
You're saying great detail. We'll go as much detail as we
4:52
can. I mean, you're not.
4:53
This is going to be a four part. Monster.
4:57
I know I know and I told my wife that even though there will be 4
5:01
parts they're still going to be stuff we mess.
5:03
So is that why she's? Divorcing you?
5:05
Maybe. I'm sure she's.
5:08
Loving hearing about your. The the causes of the First
5:11
World War. Well, she's probably heard them
5:13
before, but for me. But then, yeah, the the whole
5:17
otherwise. She married you then.
5:19
Yeah, I do wonder why. I mean, it was a.
5:23
First World War. Feeding with and so was fine
5:26
play I didn't show. No, you were definitely her.
5:31
When? Because I remember I said you're
5:33
like a screenshot of the bar top the bell with the quote from the
5:38
Rock. Like you God damn cock sucker,
5:40
you're wrecked. Half the fucking city.
5:43
All right, get into the arms race, please, Johnny.
5:44
OK, so the British naval and the British and German naval race
5:50
was of great importance before the First World War.
5:53
So Britain had basically ruled the seas for centuries.
5:59
So they're the emergence of Germany as a naval power was
6:04
very alarming to the British people.
6:07
So the British Navy, I mean, I've just got some examples
6:11
here. They had Hella share them.
6:13
Well, they'd help to like, repel the Spanish Fortella in the 16th
6:19
century. Was that the one?
6:20
Greater Formberg was on. No, not not that one.
6:24
OK, but yeah. But yeah, you'll throw me off a
6:29
bit. That's why I'm here.
6:31
But do you tell that is why you're here?
6:33
So they're also crucial in the Napoleonic Wars.
6:36
And they helped to govern the Atlantic Oceans after the
6:42
Atlantic Ocean, after Britain launched slavery in 1833.
6:46
So we found these boats. Pipe slavery may have still
6:51
continued. But I mean, that's another
6:54
debate. We can, even if we're giving
6:57
Britain credit for being the first Western nation to withdraw
7:00
from the slave trade. We had been involved in it for
7:03
like almost 300 years, so. We'd made our money,
7:06
essentially. We made our money, yeah, but
7:08
we're going to do it. We'll definitely do episodes on
7:11
the transatlantic slave trade, or as the politically correct
7:15
term is these days, the enslavement of African people.
7:19
I prefer the. Transatlantic slave trade.
7:21
I I think either 1 for me. Is fine, yeah.
7:24
I'm looking forward to those episodes and that'll probably be
7:27
100. Parts there, yeah, it will be
7:30
OK. Well.
7:30
Tell me more about the. The arms race.
7:36
So in 1897, Admiral Alfred von Turdbis became Secretary of the
7:43
German Navy. This is more butcher than German
7:46
name, so I do apologise for that to our German listeners.
7:49
I also apologise to my wife. Who, as I said.
7:52
Janitor. So this is when we see the naval
7:55
race really keyed up and where the British start to become
8:01
worried about German homogeny and the oceans around the world.
8:07
So Turbotts and he introduced naval laws, I think 19-O219-O3,
8:15
and that's just increased spending rapidly.
8:18
So at that time, 70% of German trade around the world was
8:25
through like naval exports. So he argued, and Kaiser Wilhelm
8:32
argued, that the increase in naval spending was just just to
8:38
protect their investment, basically to make sure these
8:42
exports would get where they were.
8:43
Going safely, OK, that's seems reasonable to me.
8:47
That makes sense. And was there anything else that
8:49
we're up to during this time? Well also turbos came up with a
8:56
policy of risk fearing. So rest theory was what is risk
9:01
theory? Yeah, good question.
9:02
So rest theory was you're basically by 1900 Germany has 32
9:10
battleships, 4 deserved battleships and two fleet ships.
9:16
So the idea is that you're by increasing spending, by
9:23
increasing your naval power, then it's Raspberry.
9:27
So you're doing it in Turbat. Sees idea was by doing this and
9:32
there is no way that any other naval power in Europe or the
9:38
world will dare go to war with us because they see the growing
9:42
strength of our of our neighbour.
9:45
Yeah. So it's quite imposing.
9:48
It's imposing and. Well, it's sort of intimidating.
9:52
Intimidating, and I don't agree with this, but Margaret
9:55
McMillan, the fantastic historian and her book on the
9:59
First World War, The War that Ended the Peace, or The War That
10:02
Ended the Peace, I'm gone. I've read it.
10:03
When did she come on the show? Well, I mean, if the show's
10:06
successful, maybe we forget some historians on to like, argue
10:10
with me and beat me over the head for my take.
10:13
Without primary sources, there would be no history.
10:17
But the historiography is also a fascinating part of the process.
10:22
So maybe we can have some historians come on here.
10:25
You mentioned Margaret McMillan. And what did Margaret say?
10:28
So she basically equated dress theory to mutually assured
10:33
destruction. OK, can we hear her quote then?
10:38
Well, I don't have a quote. So once again, Johnny has come
10:42
ill prepared, no? Quote No.
10:45
Quote from Margaret McMillan on this?
10:47
No. Maybe some quotes later, but
10:49
what was Mitchley? Assured destruction so during
10:53
the Cold War specifically in the 50s and six and the 60s, we see
10:57
the nuclear proliferation of the planet essentially and the two
11:02
biggest nuclear arsenals on Earth were held by both the
11:07
Soviet Union and the US, America, USA so you're.
11:13
A witness to what the British and Germans were doing.
11:18
No, I'm not equating. It was Margaret Millan who made
11:21
this comparison. So her, her.
11:23
So the idea of mutually assured destruction, as if I as the US
11:29
superpower or the US president decide to launch a nuclear
11:34
warhead at Moscow, I am ensuring my own destruction because they
11:40
have so many weapons and one nuclear weapon is not going to
11:44
wipe out the entire Soviet Union apparatus.
11:49
So they would then respond by sending a nuclear weapon into
11:54
Washington, New York, Boston and California.
11:57
So then you're assured in your own destruction.
12:00
So the idea of mutually assured destruction is by having all
12:04
these weapons, we're, we know we're never going to use them
12:07
because the other side, if they choose to respond or retaliate,
12:12
then the whole world goes out in a mushroom cloud.
12:15
So it's a deterrent. So it's a deterrent essentially.
12:18
So that that was what Margaret McMillan equated it to her.
12:22
So she said that turbot's rest feeding and is like mutually
12:28
assured disruption. So obviously it's not because
12:32
they ended up at war anyway, but her whole fact, her whole
12:36
equation is that by having a large Navy, that's what they
12:42
felt as like mutually assured destruction.
12:44
So the British aren't going to attack us because they'll just
12:46
be destroying themselves. Essentially.
12:49
So isn't her theory wrong then in the?
12:53
The case of the. Britain and Germany that go.
12:56
To war, Yeah. I mean, it's wrong.
12:58
I mean, it's it's not so much a theory from her, it's more she
13:02
equated risk theory to mutually assured destruction.
13:06
So that that's hard like understanding of what the
13:09
Germans felt about their increased military spending.
13:13
The Germans had bolstered their Navy.
13:15
What about the army? So the army increased to 600,000
13:19
men at that time, which again is like a show of strength or like
13:26
show of aggression. But also you need to be aware of
13:30
that time that despite the spending in Germany on the
13:34
military, they were still being outstripped in terms of spending
13:37
by even Zaris Russian. So as as not like the Germans
13:41
were the only country in Europe preparing for war or bolster in
13:46
their military. Did they have the?
13:48
The biggest army in Europe? Germany.
13:51
Yeah, at that. Time it would have been it would
13:53
have been the biggest army in Europe before the war.
13:56
So that's a wee bit on the Orange race.
13:59
Shall we discuss German expansion next?
14:02
Yeah. We'll, we'll get into German
14:03
expansion. Just one more thing I'll say
14:05
about the naval race. Like 1897, there was a crisis in
14:12
Greece that the Germans wanted to get involved in, but they
14:15
couldn't because they didn't have a suitable Navy.
14:19
So they were on the sidelines. OK.
14:22
We don't have to talk much about that crisis, right?
14:24
No, we don't. All right.
14:26
Do. You have an expansion then How
14:30
did Kaiser Williams version of Wilt Pollock differ from
14:35
Bismarck's more cautious approach?
14:37
But also what has Wilt Pollock? And I'm probably a bit sure on
14:42
that. Too.
14:42
So apologise, Belt Pollock. Yeah.
14:45
What is it? Phil Pollock?
14:47
So it's it meant the expansion into colonies.
14:50
So Germany in 1897, the German Chancellor at the time, Ron
14:57
Bello, gave a speech to the Reichstag.
14:59
And he mentioned, like, we want our place in the sun.
15:04
So if all these other European giants have large colonies, why
15:09
shouldn't we? And we have to remember like the
15:11
idea of imperialism and colonies and the empire, it goes back to
15:18
the 1500's, the 16th century, Portugal and and Spain, Basil
15:24
provided the blueprint. And after that other European
15:27
nations run with it, the Dutch, the French, the British, of
15:31
course. So Germany, when Germany becomes
15:36
a united nation in 1871, they are, they want to be part of
15:42
that. But we need to take into account
15:44
that most colonies are established by that point.
15:48
So you can understand why the British in particular and the
15:52
French were threatened by German colonial expansion.
15:58
OK, so how? Was Kaiser Williams vision
16:01
different then? It just, I mean, it was, I mean,
16:05
Bismarck famously said my, my map of Africa is in Europe.
16:10
Just meaning that no, we don't need to expand beyond our
16:15
borders or beyond the European borders.
16:17
Like we don't have to be in Africa because Britain and
16:20
France are in Africa. There's no need for us.
16:23
So again, Kaiser Velham just he was committed to about Pollock
16:29
and he just wanted colonial expansion to enhance his like
16:35
empire and his country so that the obviously, as I said, any
16:41
expansion at this time is going to take off other European
16:47
superpowers. Yeah, of course.
16:49
They've already planted their flags and and these colonies.
16:54
They have. I mean, as we saw with them, we
16:56
spoke about the Morocco crisis. I mean, I don't want to go back
17:00
into again. I forget what.
17:02
It was but so please don't go back and.
17:04
I'm I've all bought it for us. Were you even less now?
17:08
I was less. I'm joking.
17:09
I'm joking. Yeah, well, we don't want to go
17:10
back into that like just briefly the the Germans sent a couple of
17:16
ships, yeah. We know it in.
17:17
Morocco, we know, kicked off like a diplomatic crisis.
17:22
I mean the Moroccan. Crisis was quite dull, yeah.
17:25
I mean, I, I, I find it to be dull.
17:27
I mean, it is I mean maybe is significance and the causes of
17:33
the the First World War had been overstated just maybe like the
17:36
Spanish Civil War, like some historians say that as a a major
17:40
cause of the Second World War. But I mean, for me it's quite
17:43
tenuous. The links, I mean, obviously
17:45
you've got. We're not calling it boring.
17:47
The war with the Spanish Civil. War.
17:48
I mean, you've got Orwell fighting.
17:50
You've got him way fighting. You've got Oppenheimer sending
17:52
money to the the socialist cause in Spain.
17:56
Yeah, Yeah. So no, I'm not saying it's
17:58
boring, but I mean, I think the links to the same World War are
18:01
quite tenuous, though. You've got to like dictators at
18:06
out of Tarden. But again, I mean, I would never
18:09
ever cite the Spanish Civil War as a major cause of the Second
18:12
World War I. Was Speaking of.
18:14
Dictators I actually I write. For a sketch comedy show and one
18:20
of my. Sketches was about the.
18:22
Franco and Mussolini and and Hitler.
18:25
Franco and Mussolini were going on a tender date and and Hitler
18:30
shows up at the end and they asked him how's Argentina been?
18:33
Treating and they. And ask him what he would like
18:37
to drink so. Yeah, I was at that show.
18:39
Like everyone was laughing their heads off around me and I'm just
18:43
sat there, Stony face. Yeah, of course.
18:46
You try writing comedy then for crazy.
18:49
No, I'm Jake. And it was funny.
18:50
It was some of the. Jokes.
18:52
It wasn't historically accurate, though.
18:54
The Hitler one. That's what you, Johnny, told me
18:57
after the show, did I? Because that's what we're aiming
18:59
for in sketch comedy. I Historical accuracy.
19:04
And that's sketch comedy, kids. I'll tell you more about my
19:07
sketch comedy writing in a later episode.
19:10
And is there anything else on Will Pollock?
19:12
I'm. Sure, they can't wait, but.
19:14
Well, yeah, if they if they had the choice of listening to the
19:17
Morocco Moroccan Crisis or sketch comedy joked, I think
19:21
they would go for sketch comedy. But anything else, anything else
19:25
on Will Pollock. Well, I mean in the 1890's the
19:30
the Germans, Kaiser Velham did try to reach out to the British
19:34
to secure a deal with them, but he was rebuffed and the British
19:39
were unhappy because during the the Boer War, the first Boer
19:43
War, the second Boer War, Yeah. What was the Boer War?
19:47
So the Boer War was when the Afrikaans colonisers in South
19:53
Africa wanted their freedom from the British state.
19:56
So basically they were part, they were one of the white
20:00
dominions. So the white dominions, these
20:03
were distinctive from other British colonies because they
20:08
had their own autonomy, like their own form of government.
20:12
They can, they weren't seen as protectors.
20:16
Protectors I should say. They had their own autonomy.
20:20
So Australia, New Zealand. South Africa and what?
20:24
Why were they autonomous? Like, for example, why were they
20:28
autonomous in India? Where?
20:31
No, because they they were white.
20:32
Yeah, because they were white, essentially.
20:35
So we have the first Boer War in 1880 and the second in 1899.
20:40
And this is where the Boers fought against the British to
20:44
try and get their own state installed in South Africa as I
20:49
said and the British word incensed because Kaiser Wilhelm
20:54
supported the Boer cause like publicly, as did most Germans.
20:59
Because you have to remember most of these Boers were
21:03
descendants of Germans or of Dutch settlers.
21:08
So they they had that shared sense of Germanness should be
21:14
same. So Kaiser, apparently Kaiser
21:18
Wilhelm tried to get involved in negotiations during the Second
21:22
World War and the British deplements were like, absolutely
21:25
not. But they were enraged that he he
21:27
tried to do that. It wasn't a Boer War.
21:31
Where we first? Saw the introduction of
21:33
concentration. Camps, Yeah, which a great
21:37
question actually. Good knowledge.
21:39
It was a British who who came up with it.
21:41
Yeah, of course it. Was a British who?
21:44
Invented the concentration camp and when Hitler ran into
21:49
Churchill during the Second World War.
21:52
He said. We started it.
21:54
We got. A dead boomer in Queens with her
21:56
old Ukrainian father. What does that even mean?
22:03
It's just from The Sopranos and is when New York and the New
22:06
Jersey families are at war and the.
22:10
Bitchy, Who's the head? Of the New York family at that
22:13
point, he says, it was a New Jersey faction who started the
22:17
the war. And so Hitler said to Churchill.
22:22
But you guys? Gave us the idea.
22:24
Who do you think we learned it from?
22:26
Well, maybe, but obviously our listeners should know that
22:30
Hitler and Churchill never met. So yeah, of course.
22:33
And I don't think Hitler was doing soprano quotes in the 19.
22:37
40s was he? Well, maybe not.
22:39
We'll never know for sure. It's fair to say that.
22:42
Germany was a very proud. Nation, yeah, I mean national
22:46
prestige was a very important factor that it was to lead to
22:50
the the first one award, Sir. And what's national prestige?
22:54
Well, if you're looking at it in the contemporary terms, it would
22:56
be maybe something like America First, like Make America Great
23:00
Again. So that idea that America's the
23:03
greatest nation on earth and that other like money and
23:06
resources should go into basically propelling the anteer
23:12
forward and propelling those policies.
23:14
But I mean, we're not going to get into now.
23:16
But obviously that hasn't been the case with even with Trump
23:21
being in office. I'm looking forward to doing an
23:24
episode on Donald Trump, but that will be in about 20 years
23:28
from now. When it's considered ancient
23:31
history and hopefully the podcast is still going.
23:35
Yeah. I mean, the podcast might be
23:37
going. I mean, we could be dead.
23:38
I mean, Trump certainly will be by that point.
23:41
Well. I don't think we'll be dead.
23:42
Hopefully not. Yeah, well, maybe, hopefully
23:45
not. I want to see my son.
23:46
Grow up. Yeah, of course.
23:48
I mean, yeah, of course, Of course.
23:50
So national prestige, Yeah. So we've established that there
23:54
was a rivalry between nations which saw an increase in
23:57
military spending and there was a sense of chauvinistic pride
24:02
permeating and most European societies at that time as well.
24:07
So that's general competitive competitiveness.
24:10
Even Sorry was born out of the emergence of the US as a
24:14
dominant market and industry and commerce at the end of the 19th
24:18
century. So Russia, even in hard
24:21
backwardness, was starting to industrialise on a massive scale
24:24
at the end of the 19th century. And we've already shown Germany
24:28
was looking to expand her empire and become the dominant country
24:31
in Europe at the expense of the British Empire.
24:34
So America remained in splendid isolation as other European
24:38
nations squabbled for the predominant role on the
24:41
continent. So there was particularly a
24:44
desire amongst nations that were seen as failing entities like
24:49
Russia and Austro Hungary to show their worth in combat and
24:56
to show that they were powerful like empire steps.
25:02
So yeah, I mean we see that some particular in relation to
25:06
Austrian Hungarian policy in the Balkans, but should almost
25:09
brought about a general war in the fall of 19 O 8.
25:13
So Austria Hungary she rest her standard on the continent by
25:18
quote unquote acquired an Ottoman territory and Bosnia and
25:23
Herzegovina without first consultant other European
25:27
powers. So the Ottoman Empire had
25:30
existed in the Balkans in various forms since the 15th
25:32
century. After 1878 Austria had governed
25:36
Bosnia by croxy essentially. So by 19 O 8 the Austro
25:43
Hungarian Empire is a rally of his former self.
25:47
So although the operation was another failing state, it's
25:51
another failing state. So the move against Bosnia is
25:53
meant to re establish or is one of the key powers in Europe.
25:56
So although the operation is military, militarily successful
26:01
and further destabilised the region and almost paradoxically
26:05
weakened the rule of Austria, Hungary and the Balkans.
26:08
So it wasn't appreciated at the time in a gleeful Vienna, but
26:11
the Hazburg Empire had essentially saw in the seeds of
26:14
their own destruction. So there's the invasion of
26:20
Bosnia was meant to be a gift to Franz Joseph because it was her
26:25
60th year on the throne. So there was a huge celebration
26:29
in Vienna. And if you want to show, I mean,
26:34
if you want to show how deep the nationalistic feelings ran in
26:38
the Austrian Empire. So if you want to see how deeply
26:42
the nationalistic feelings were and the Austral Hungarian Empire
26:46
or how deep the divisions were, wreath, Bridget Hermann's
26:50
outstanding book was called Cutler's Vienna and it shows
26:54
Hitler and Vienna at that time, but is not primarily about
26:57
Hitler. So 1908 we have the Jubilee,
27:00
which is a celebration of France Joseph's 60th year on the
27:05
Austrian throne. I think I said in a paper I
27:09
wrote like it. It would actually be
27:11
unintentionally hilarious how upset they were all getting over
27:15
this if there weren't something darker and more insidious at his
27:19
heart. OK, do we have a quote?
27:23
An incoming quote from this. Book.
27:25
Well, I mean if the quote is. Just we'll have a quote on this
27:28
side of the table. We there.
27:30
So it's just in relation to Austria's invasion of Bosnia.
27:36
So Hammond says that as it is seen as a gift to the the Agean
27:42
Emperor because after all and wars had brought much loss, the
27:46
empire becomes smaller and smaller during his reign.
27:50
So in 1859 Lombardo was lost, in 1866 Venetia was lost and with
27:57
and with Austria's prominent position in the German league.
28:00
So now the Empire was supposed to become larger for a change,
28:04
and a war that was mistakenly deemed to be a simple.
28:08
OK, well we love that quote. Then we hope you follow the.
28:12
Listeners So at this stage Europe was on the brink, so
28:17
localised disputes in the Balkans would lead to more
28:20
bloodshed and political manoeuvring as a road to the
28:23
First World War was to take shape.
28:25
So we've got a second Balkans war that I should mention of
28:29
19121913, which saw Albanian autonomy recognised further
28:34
depletion of the pure Ottomans and their empire through
28:38
Italian, Atlantis and Slav fortitude.
28:42
So at this stage in nearly 800 years of the autumn, Ottoman
28:45
Empire were almost over. The Austral Hungarian Empire was
28:49
not prepared to disappear from the world map as easily.
28:53
Oh, I can't even remember when you mentioned the first bulk of
28:56
war. It may have been three hours
28:58
ago. It might have been 10 minutes
28:59
ago, but I I remember. Mentioned that in relation to
29:03
the 19 O 8 Jubilee and and Vienna.
29:06
No, I'm kidding. OK, but I missed that.
29:08
OK, you missed that. OK, well, hopefully the
29:10
listeners are are a little bore and more intentive and they're
29:15
like listening. Yeah, let's hope.
29:19
No, our listeners are very good. What else do you have to tell
29:22
them? Well, I mean, the whole idea of
29:24
national prestige can be linked to nationalism.
29:26
So the idea of nationalism, particularly I'm the Austro
29:30
Hungarian Empire for me, I would postulate that is what led to
29:35
the breakup of the empire. But interestingly, during the
29:38
First World of War, we saw, we saw we can trace like a genuine
29:44
enthusiasm for the Habsburg Monica and the Austro Hungarian
29:47
Empire during this time. So all the despite like the
29:52
horrendous conditions of warfare, so.
29:54
You're mean amongst the soldiers.
29:56
Yeah, amongst the soldiers. So, despite the horrendous
29:58
conditions of the warfare, many different nationalities united
30:02
under the Hospital Hungarian banner and fought bravely in the
30:05
most unimaginable conditions. So well, that's interesting that
30:10
the soldiers for favourously for their nation.
30:15
Well, I mean, it's not As for their the empire, they're
30:19
fighting for the Hospital Hungarian Empire.
30:21
There's we remain intact slabs. Yeah, we've got like all these
30:25
desperate like personalities, nationalities of the Austral
30:30
Hungarian Empire fighting under the one banner, fighting under 1
30:34
banner, even though with disease and hunger was right at one
30:40
point Austrian Hungarian soldiers were down to 800
30:43
calories per day. So if you can imagine that, I
30:46
mean how many calories is recommended for a healthy meal
30:51
and 2025, what is it 2503 thousand calories per day?
30:58
So the fact that there there weren't major signs of mutiny or
31:03
desertion shows the loyalty of these desperate nationalities to
31:09
the Austro Hungarian cause during the First World War.
31:12
But interestingly, I mean war can unite nations and as Linda
31:17
Cawley said, like peasants became patriots.
31:21
So you become you become like you're in a fervour over the the
31:28
war, although I mean it's mostly doing the all nations and
31:31
peoples were euphoric at the outbreak of war of the First
31:35
World War. But these men who fought an
31:37
austral Hungarian empire fought with the sanction.
31:42
Yeah, so the majority of them were passionate about the Empire
31:47
and and wanted to defend her. So despite these factors and
31:54
mutiny and dissent were scarce and Austro Hungarian empire.
31:57
But one thing that always struck me, I mean, it's not funny, but.
32:01
Let's hear it and we'll make the decision if it's funny or not.
32:03
Decision in 1917. The last Russian offensive of
32:07
the war. Last major offensive of the war
32:11
there. Yeah, what?
32:12
Happened. What happened then?
32:14
Well, the the Russian Provisional Government had told
32:17
that this last offensive would be successful and they can
32:21
continue the war. Hence it was.
32:23
Named the last offensive so. Named the last offensive, but
32:26
there were things like there were so many soldiers who just
32:31
abandoned their post because Germantown warfare.
32:34
If you're going over the top, as we called it, when you're
32:38
launch, launching yourself towards like the enemy trench,
32:42
you should have machine gun cover.
32:44
The Austrian, sorry the Russian, they did not have machine gun
32:47
last offensive. So there were stories of like
32:52
Russian soldiers just abandoning their post going on mutiny and
32:57
Russian soldiers being so drunk like three days before the
33:01
offensive that they they still were hungover by the time the
33:05
offensive took place. So they they were unable to
33:09
fight because of that. Oh, that is kind of funny, the
33:13
fact they were they had a three day hangover before this
33:16
offensive. So that's a.
33:18
Drunken offensive was in France. No, no, it was in the East, it
33:22
was in Galatia. Leave off the leave off
33:25
offensive. OK.
33:26
And how did it go? Well, I just told you, I mean,
33:29
if you're going to be coming to terms with Germany, I mean, we
33:33
went into that in the last podcast, in the last episode
33:36
about breast Lipkosk, we went into that.
33:40
So I I remember, yeah, you know how it went.
33:44
Not very well. Not very well.
33:46
Yeah. Well, I mean, if they're the
33:48
soldiers are abandoned in their posts and they're turning up
33:52
hungover, not turning up at all. I mean, it's the hardly going to
33:56
go well, is it? At least they had a good night.
33:58
This led to the collapse of the provisional government in
34:01
Russia, which allowed the Bolsheviks to to take over
34:05
eventually. So.
34:06
OK, we'll definitely do an episode or 10 on the Russian
34:11
Revolution. Yeah, we will definitely do a a
34:14
Russian Revolution. But the reason I was using that
34:18
example of the Russian last Russian offensive is just to
34:22
show the distinction between how those soldiers conducted
34:27
themselves in combat and how the Austro Hungarian various
34:31
nationalities conducted themselves in combat.
34:33
But let's get back to the nationalistic question in Austro
34:37
Hungary. So let's get back to it then.
34:39
Yeah. So I would argue that this is
34:43
what destroyed the Austro Hungarian Empire and was one of
34:47
the primary engines that were to lead to the First World War.
34:51
And I I think a very like interesting case that
34:57
exemplifies this as the case of General Arthur Orange von
35:02
Strasenberg. OK.
35:04
Who was Strasenberg and dive a little bit into that case.
35:08
So they'll maximum up with General Paul Stafenberg, who
35:13
led, you know, Stafenberg, you can see why there'd be.
35:16
Confusion now. Yeah, very similar names.
35:18
So Stafenberg led the last assassination attempt on Hitler
35:23
and 9th of July 1944 so. It wasn't the same guy.
35:26
No, it definitely was not the same.
35:28
Guy. Was that the guy Tom Cruise
35:29
played it? Was the guy Tom Cruise plays in
35:31
Valkyrie, which I think is a very good film, although as
35:36
Kershaw shows and as magnificent opus on Hitler, the double
35:42
biography of Hitler, Shabris and Nemesis is the second one.
35:47
The the plot, although the actual assassination obviously
35:52
was just down to very bad luck. And the the chapter in the book
35:56
is called the Lock of the Devil, which goes on to all the
35:59
assassination attempts and that's the last one on Hitler.
36:02
But the plot itself did not come close or the Kurd did not come
36:07
close to succeeding. So the film, you're on edge of
36:10
your seat. Even as a historian, when I'm
36:13
watching, I'm like, oh, they're going to do it.
36:14
They're going to get Hitler and they're going to, like, take
36:17
over the German government. But obviously envy doesn't
36:21
happen. In actuality, I didn't even come
36:23
close to succeed them. Well, it's a.
36:25
Film. There has to be a bit of.
36:27
Conflict and tension. Otherwise what are you watching?
36:31
What? Why are you even there?
36:33
Yeah, of course. So.
36:34
So. Yeah.
36:36
So nationalism, Yeah. So we were speaking about
36:39
Strasenberg, Yeah. Strasenberg sorry, not to be
36:42
confused by with Tom Cruise, say, without viewing off topic.
36:46
I mean, weren't there like 47 attempts or so on Hitler?
36:50
'S life, yeah, there were so many, and that's one we've lost
36:54
count. We've lost count, but so many.
36:56
The last one just didn't succeed through bad luck.
37:00
There was just. It was just basically bad luck
37:03
that they don't kill him. But I think at that stage, and I
37:05
mentioned that in the film, like at that stage, would it even
37:08
have mattered? I mean, with that, I mean
37:12
General Beck, who was one of the conspirators, he wanted to keep
37:16
like all their land that Hitler had acquired during the Second
37:20
World War. So he was hoping they could
37:22
negotiate with that out of powers and still keep that.
37:25
Land. OK, well, we'll definitely go
37:28
into that story more in another episode.
37:31
One thing I will say about. Hitler.
37:33
Despite all the assassination attempts here, we don't know how
37:37
he he managed to escape to Argentina.
37:40
Well, that that's just complete nonsense anyway.
37:43
And the dying members of the war Chief of the General Staff's
37:47
Stasenberg tried not. To be confused with Strathenburg
37:51
Stafenburg, sorry. Jesus Christ.
37:56
OK, so let's go achieve us. The half generous Strasenberg
38:00
compiled a report on the conflict so that this shows how
38:05
this shows a nationalistic feeling, whether the reports say
38:10
so. It's not so much what the report
38:12
said, it's just Strasenberg was horrified as a Prussian officer
38:16
that he had to subject himself to sitting for meals with other
38:20
desperate nations, nationalities, I should say of
38:23
the collapse and Austro Hungarian Empire.
38:26
So he was even appalled that his food was being served by
38:30
different nationalities and not Germans or Hungarians.
38:34
So he wrote home to his wife about it as well.
38:37
And if ever what did he say to his wife?
38:39
What would what did he say to that letter?
38:41
Basically the same thing. So just complaining about they
38:45
condemn. But I mean, they're hardly awful
38:47
conditions, are they? So if ever there was a perfect
38:51
illustration of incongruable class and nationalist like
38:55
snobbery, Strasenburg embodied that.
38:57
I mean, if you think about it then Todd powers are circulant.
39:01
The Austrian army had suffered enormous casualties.
39:05
The king had passed away in 1916.
39:08
Austrian civilians were literally starving to death.
39:11
And that's Crush in general was more concerned, despite all
39:15
that, with who was preparing his meals at the front.
39:18
Well, that's absurd. Was he?
39:20
Did he say anything? About the war or just.
39:22
He was more he was more interested than who was putting
39:26
his food in front of him. A large part of that information
39:29
comes from the letters he sent home to his wife.
39:32
And I can't remember the exact quote, but I think it was
39:35
something along the lines of we can't have general like Prussian
39:39
generals sitting for meals with all these like Slavs and cheques
39:45
and whatever. So that that was it just shows
39:51
how out of touch the guy was. Or even the upper echelons of
39:56
the Austro Hungarian Empire, because you're in the middle of
40:00
a fucking war that you're losing.
40:02
And this guy, all he cares about is who is serving his food.
40:06
So it's just an an astonishing historical source that we have.
40:14
Well, the report sounds like a classic of the genre.
40:16
Is Is there anything else about nationalism we should cover?
40:20
Yeah, I mean, as I said, we showed how how well the the
40:25
army, the Russia, sorry, the Astro Hungarian army fought,
40:29
Yeah, they fought with distinction.
40:35
I mean, as I said, like the desperate, the desperate
40:41
nationalities of the Austrian Hungarian infantry, they did
40:44
fight with distinction and Poland and Galatia and Serbia,
40:48
also Italy. So it was evident that the
40:51
unifying power of war helped coerce these national
40:55
nationalities of their cause. But I do not share Ian Skad's
40:59
opinion that the national problem was abated by the time
41:01
the war commenced. OK, this is another historian.
41:05
This is another historian who said he argued that the Austro
41:08
Hungarian Empire would have survived if it had been on the
41:13
Victoria side in the First World War.
41:15
And he said nationalism wasn't as much of a problem as some
41:20
other historians, myself amongst them, have asserted.
41:25
But I disagree with that entirely.
41:29
So the monarchy who were completely unprepared for war,
41:34
they were baited into the First World War and they knew it could
41:37
lead to their demise in in order to deal with the nationalistic
41:42
question, particularly in the East.
41:44
So I've got another quote if you want me to read.
41:47
It Yeah, let's hear the quote please.
41:48
So. That this is mainly so basically
41:51
the Germans took strategic operational command at the front
41:56
after 1915 and this was going to the disastrous start to the war
42:01
that the Austrians made because they just weren't prepared for
42:04
more war. So this is a quote from John
42:07
Mason who wrote a great book on the the Austrian Hungarian
42:13
Empire. And it is called, I think it's
42:16
called the Dissolution of the Austria Hungarian Empire.
42:19
I'm sure that's how we'll double check that.
42:21
We'll double check that. So the main dilemma, this is a
42:24
quote, the main dilemma for the Habsburg Monarchy was that she
42:28
had to fight A2 front war with an adequate means.
42:31
So the problem was compounded, compounded, I should say, by
42:34
Austro General Stack, which could not decide before 1914
42:39
which of the two fronts, Galatia against the Russians or Serbia
42:44
to treat as more important. So the plan of Chief of Staff of
42:49
the Austrian Chief of Staff, Conrad von Hossendorf, was to
42:54
crush Serbia first in a swift offenso and then turn against
42:57
Russia. But he was unable to shift 12
42:59
divisions quickly enough from Serbia to Galatia, with the
43:03
result that Austria suffered a series of disasters in the early
43:06
months of the war. Not only had the Austrians been
43:09
flown out of Serbia by December 1914, but they were also driven
43:13
out of eastern Galatia by the superior Russian forces.
43:17
So essentially what Mason shows there is that the nationalistic
43:23
question brought Austro Hungaria into a war even though they were
43:30
not prepared to go to war. So that is essentially suicide
43:36
by starting a war that you know you're not equipped to deal
43:40
with. And you and there's one of the
43:43
most famous quotes, one of the quotes I'll always remember is
43:47
when Franz Joseph said about dealing with Serbia and dealing
43:52
with the sloppy question. He said if the empire is to
43:56
perish, I shall do so with dignity.
43:59
And I'm sure the 18 to 20 million people who died in the
44:03
war would have shared that sentiment.
44:05
You know, yeah, I'm sure they they did share that sentiment.
44:08
Well, I'm sure they don't. They went to their graves.
44:10
As martyrs, so they did. Is it fair to say then that
44:16
Austria's nationalistic pride that only just lead them into
44:20
the war also LED them into a series of disastrous decisions
44:24
during the war? Yeah, disastrous decisions
44:27
within the war, military decisions anywhere, OK, But
44:31
there, there are soldiers fought.
44:33
Well and fought bravely. Yeah, they they all, as I said,
44:37
the United Under 1 banner and fought with distension, but they
44:42
still lost the whore. The reign me of my one of my
44:45
favourite combatants from history.
44:48
Who's that? Rhaegar Targaryen.
44:50
So Rhaegar fought violently, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar
44:54
fought honourably, and Rhaegar died.
44:56
Here was he. From My Son of Ice and Fire, we
44:59
mentioned that a few episodes ago.
45:01
You haven't read the books yet? There is only five of them bro.
45:03
What books? Game wise, no.
45:05
One I saw, I saw him of ice and. Fire, He said.
45:07
You could borrow them. A big last ship has sailed on
45:09
Game of Thrones. I'm not getting into it.
45:11
Now what? Well, the books.
45:13
Have not been finished so you can read the.
45:14
Books. So, Johnny, we're coming up to
45:18
the end of this episode. Is there anything else you'd
45:20
like to add? Not really.
45:21
Just to say that the final episode of the First World War
45:26
will mainly be speaking again about Austria Hungary and why.
45:31
I mean, we've alluded to already and why they were culpable in my
45:35
opinion, for starting the First World War.
45:39
And we'll get into that more in the final episode.
45:43
OK, that's great. We've got an horror.
45:45
Of this to go. It has been fascinating, as I
45:48
said in a a previous episode. Yeah, well, hopefully the the
45:52
listeners find that interesting. I mean, again, apologise for our
45:57
German pronunciations. They're not fantastic.
46:00
We're not German speakers, so don't don't hammer us on that,
46:04
please. Yeah, my wife didn't want to sit
46:06
on this. It's actually my wife's
46:08
beautiful tones you can hear at. The the.
46:11
Start and end of the. Episode she does.
46:12
Her intro and she does her outro.
46:14
Yeah, she does it beautifully. So it's better than Joseph Or I
46:18
like reading a monotone. My name is Deckers and I kill
46:23
replicants and I eat noodles and I live in a dystopian future.
46:27
OK, you're not Harrison Ford. Bro yes, but that that's how
46:30
Ridley Scott said Harrison Ford. That's the the narration for
46:34
Blade Runner because he didn't want to do it.
46:37
Well, thankfully. I don't have to watch the
46:40
version with that narration. You can watch any version and
46:43
what one fine. I'm I don't know if you guys
46:47
know what CX is. It's the want to see that sure,
46:51
it's just a store where you can buy the media used media, used
46:55
media, but it's all in Exxon condition.
46:57
It's not like when cash converters were taking stuff
47:01
from people who were aid old, drug aid old basically, but it
47:06
which is another thing that is a blight of society, just that
47:11
there's not enough help there, but.
47:14
Yeah, Cash Converters is a pawn shop, I'm sure.
47:16
It's still around still they, I think most of our I think
47:19
they're closed down, but they would take anything.
47:22
But now we've see actually only take quality used goods.
47:27
So last year I made the mistake. Blade Runner is one of my
47:30
favourite films and I've been going on for months and they
47:34
they have the more expensive items behind the towel.
47:37
So people don't like shoplift them.
47:40
Yeah. And one of those items that was
47:41
there for months was a big Blade Runner box set that was 100 lbs.
47:46
So I was wondering what is in that box set and then what?
47:51
Was in the box bro. Well, the The thing is I finally
47:54
find out, but I find to my cost because by that point I had
47:59
traded in my Blade Runner 10. So there was a Blade Runner
48:03
special edition DVD and it was a 10 and I had like 5 or 6
48:08
different versions of the film. I had a 3 1/2 hour documentary.
48:12
I had like beautiful like paperweights, like they only
48:18
made about 3000 of them. Yeah, I know.
48:20
I. I had that 10 too.
48:22
Yeah, so when when I finally went to buy the Blade Runner box
48:27
set from CX for £100, I like opened up and the guy showed me,
48:33
I said, is there more than one version of the film?
48:35
He said, no, it's just the final cut.
48:37
But I, I kind of felt it was kind of like The Simpsons, like
48:40
where the the guy, the comic book guy says like I'm not
48:43
getting out my seat unless you're buying it.
48:46
So I kind of felt because the guy got out of a seat and took
48:49
the took the blue runner box to part of your cash.
48:52
I had to part with 100 lbs So but it's only it's a beautiful
48:56
box set, beautiful artwork. Bone has one version of the
48:59
film. So the 10 which I bought for
49:01
like 12 lbs on eBay about 12 years previously is better than
49:07
100 LB box set. Well, that's great, I'm sure.
49:10
The listeners will will be. Looking forward to our.
49:13
Episode on Blade Runner. Yeah.
49:15
I mean, it's historical event or great significance.
49:18
Isn't it? It's a sci-fi.
49:19
Classic it is. We could do the making of Blade
49:22
Runner. I mean, that could work on a
49:24
history podcast. I don't think it could, but
49:27
maybe, maybe we'll have some film stuff on.
49:30
Actually, we know some people involved in the industry, so
49:33
maybe. Yeah, let's see.
49:35
Some guests from that industry would be great.
49:37
But anyway, that's the end of this episode.
49:40
Thank you for tuning in and we'll see you all again soon.
49:44
We'll see you. Soon on the concluding part of
49:47
the First World War. See you soon.
49:49
Bye bye. Bye.
49:51
The Twin History Podcast is a Lost Cosmonauts production
49:55
produced by me Vilag, Esther Tut.
49:59
Additional producers are Dale McGoldrick, Johnny McCann and
50:03
Joe McCann. Written by Johnny McCann and Joe
50:07
McCann, original music and score by Kevin McCloud.
50:12
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50:16
You can find us on Instagram, YouTube, Twitter and Tic Tac
50:20
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50:24
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50:30
Thanks for listening.