Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP34 - The Pros & Cons Of Heathen Non-Profits (feat. Gyðja Em of River Pine Kindred)

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP34 - The Pros & Cons Of Heathen Non-Profits (feat. Gyðja Em of River Pine Kindred) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic
• 0:07
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse and I am your
• 0:10
  host. Let's get into it.
• 0:33
  Fire on the Mountain, an annual men's spiritual retreat and
• 0:37
  leadership summit, is sponsored in part by the Norse Fox
• 0:40
  Creations. The Norse Fox Creations is a
• 0:43
  small business that prides themselves in crafting Viking
• 0:47
  error inspired items. All materials are naturally
• 0:50
  sourced, handmade and crafted with the greatest detail in
• 0:54
  keeping in period, but with a modern day touch.
• 0:57
  They bring to their customers the heart and soul of the Viking
• 1:01
  era community with each of their one-of-a-kind pieces.
• 1:04
  From horn, hide, bone and bag, they have items for the novice
• 1:09
  to the more seasoned garb enthusiast.
• 1:11
  Visit them on Facebook at the Norse Fox Creations and e-mail
• 1:16
  them for Commission work at the Norse Fox creations@gmail.com.
• 1:20
  Thank you to The Norse Fox Creations for helping sponsor
• 1:24
  Fire on the Mountain. The All Day Here workshop is
• 1:29
  dedicated to the Old Ways, offering a wide selection of
• 1:32
  animist ritual supplies, divination tools, altered goods
• 1:36
  and home decor, including premium reindeer hides imported
• 1:39
  from traditional herders in Northern Finland.
• 1:42
  Whether you're just starting your spiritual journey or
• 1:45
  looking to expand your collection with a custom drum,
• 1:48
  we have everything you need. Visit our online store at the
• 1:52
  All Day here.com and discover the beauty of Mountain Spirit.
• 1:57
  Fire on the Mountain, an annual men's spiritual retreat and
• 2:01
  leadership summit, is sponsored in part by Moon Joy Meadery.
• 2:06
  Owned and operated by Daniel and Rebecca Phillips and Rebecca's
• 2:09
  mother, Margaret Moose, this small batch meadery has been a
• 2:13
  dream in the making for almost a decade.
• 2:15
  Moon Joy cycles through 50 plus different Mead recipes boasting
• 2:20
  an impressive amount of variety in their tasting room.
• 2:24
  At any given time you will find upwards of 15 different Meads of
• 2:27
  varying sweetness available by individual poor tasting flight
• 2:32
  or by the bottle to enjoy at home.
• 2:34
  Visit their brick and mortar location in Lenoir, NC or check
• 2:38
  out their website at Moon Joy meadery.com to see if they offer
• 2:42
  shipping to your home state. Thank you to Moon Joy Meadery
• 2:46
  for helping sponsor Fire on the Mountain.
• 2:52
  Yes, absolutely. Thank you to all of our
• 2:55
  sponsors, including the Alvatier Workshop, Moon Joy Meadery, the
• 3:02
  Norse Fox Creations, and some more sponsors of Fire on the
• 3:06
  Mountain that you're going to be hearing throughout this episode
• 3:09
  leading up to the event this year, which is closing in fast.
• 3:14
  It is. We are in September now, folks,
• 3:16
  and Fire on the Mountain 2024, which is being auspiciously
• 3:21
  named. Well, it's being named, whether
• 3:25
  auspiciously or not, it's being named Spirit Rd. is is the theme
• 3:29
  of this year's men's retreat, men's spiritual retreat
• 3:32
  leadership summit in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Appalachia.
• 3:35
  This is our fourth year and we got some more words from other
• 3:40
  sponsors that are going to be coming throughout this episode,
• 3:42
  but it is vast, vastly, fastly quickly approaching.
• 3:48
  It'll be taking place October 24th through the 27th out there
• 3:52
  in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Appalachia.
• 3:55
  So thank you to our sponsors that you're going to hear
• 3:57
  throughout this episode. Give them some love and support
• 4:01
  if you can, folks. If nothing else, just visit
• 4:04
  their websites, visit their social medias, follow them on
• 4:07
  the social medias that are tagged in the show notes.
• 4:11
  You know they are they are doing a tremendous amount for the
• 4:15
  event this year by being sponsors.
• 4:17
  So some of which the members of these organizations are going to
• 4:21
  be present at the at the at the summit.
• 4:25
  So you're going to have members from some of these businesses
• 4:28
  attending this year's event. So definitely check them out.
• 4:34
  Check out their information down in the the show notes or if
• 4:37
  you're watching this on Patreon, you know, check out the
• 4:39
  description and so forth and show your support in any way
• 4:42
  that you can. And in addition to that, you
• 4:45
  guys have got all my information down there, Linktree, you know,
• 4:48
  follow me on all the socials, become a patron on Patreon.
• 4:51
  If you're listening to this and you want to catch the video
• 4:54
  version, the the visual spectacle, as it were, that
• 4:59
  comes along with this video version of the podcast, you can
• 5:02
  become a patron on Patreon for just a dollar.
• 5:05
  It helps with the support of the production of this show in the
• 5:08
  video format, all of the various things that go in the production
• 5:12
  of it. You can support that for just a
• 5:15
  dollar and you can also just do it for the one time.
• 5:19
  If you want to binge watch a few shows and then not renew a
• 5:22
  dollar the next month, you're free and welcome to do so.
• 5:26
  But it is a great and and you know tremendous way of of
• 5:30
  showing your support here. And then lastly, down in the
• 5:33
  description, for those of you that are watching this on
• 5:36
  Patreon and those of you that are listening to this on the
• 5:39
  audio platforms, there's going to be links to my guest for this
• 5:45
  week. This is going to be a return
• 5:48
  guest. So for those of you who maybe
• 5:50
  aren't familiar with who we are joined with here today, here
• 5:55
  shortly, I'll be linking a previous episode that my guest
• 6:01
  today was was on a previous episode of the podcast.
• 6:05
  So you guys, if you want to go back and get a little bit of
• 6:06
  history or know a little bit more about them, but we're going
• 6:10
  to be joined here today shortly with Geethya M of the River Pine
• 6:16
  Kindred. And yeah, for those of you that
• 6:18
  don't know, is a sort of it is the feminine term of a Gothi,
• 6:24
  right? So the the priest or priestess.
• 6:26
  So you have your Gothi if you're male, Githia if you're female
• 6:31
  and identify as such, right? So Githia is a term to describe
• 6:36
  the sort of spiritual leader of a heathen tribe, kindred,
• 6:41
  etcetera, whatever, you know, term you want to put to it.
• 6:43
  And and Emily is going to be joining us here today from the
• 6:46
  Texarkana region of the United States.
• 6:49
  So Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, that sort of tri-state region of
• 6:53
  the, of the country. And she's going to be talking
• 6:56
  with us today about some of the pros and cons, you know, the UPS
• 6:59
  and the downs, the, the, the goods and the bads, if you will,
• 7:03
  about registering your heathen organization or a heathen
• 7:08
  organization as a 5O1C3 nonprofit.
• 7:11
  I know a lot of folks in the United States especially that
• 7:17
  are, you know, leaders in their heathen space are looking to get
• 7:21
  their organizations registered as a nonprofit for the apparent
• 7:27
  benefits that come with such a thing.
• 7:29
  But, you know, there's always things to weigh out and does
• 7:32
  your organization or the thing that you're, you know, looking
• 7:35
  to do, you know, does it fit within that category?
• 7:38
  So, you know, Gidea M here is going to be talking a bit about
• 7:42
  that. She has some experience with it.
• 7:44
  And yeah, I'm excited to get into that because it is a topic
• 7:47
  that I think is is worth breaching or broaching, if you
• 7:50
  will, you know, talking about, you know, what people in
• 7:54
  leadership positions are trying to do to further advance and
• 7:57
  grow and benefit their communities.
• 8:00
  And not just their own individual, like respective area
• 8:03
  communities, but the community at large.
• 8:05
  You know, when, how AA5O1C3 nonprofit can can maybe help
• 8:12
  with things like that. So be sure to check all that
• 8:15
  stuff out. Everything's going to be linked
• 8:16
  down in the description slash show notes.
• 8:19
  Again, if you're watching this, it's in the description show
• 8:21
  notes if you're listening. Very special thanks.
• 8:24
  A big thanks to my Patreon supporters who have continued to
• 8:28
  support and pledge their their monthly pledges to to keep the
• 8:33
  video production of this show strong and running good.
• 8:38
  So we're going to hear a word from one more of our sponsor
• 8:40
  before we bring Emily on here to the show.
• 8:43
  Hope you guys enjoy the show. If you do, be sure to interact
• 8:45
  with the platform that you're on.
• 8:47
  Show your support in any way. Share it, like it, do the thing,
• 8:50
  and we'll get into it here in just a moment.
• 8:52
  But for now, let's hear one more word from one of our Fire on the
• 8:56
  Mountain sponsors. This is going to be from
• 8:58
  Skogamore. And then we'll welcome in
• 9:01
  Geethya M from the River Pine Kindred.
• 9:04
  Here we go. Fire on the Mountain, an annual
• 9:08
  men's spiritual retreat and leadership summit, is sponsored
• 9:12
  in part by Skogamore. From the foggy mountains of
• 9:15
  Appalachia comes forth this musical adventure from ex black
• 9:19
  metal musician Zeb Croom. Skogamore was first created in
• 9:23
  the fall of 2020 and is a mix of Appalachian and Nordic folk with
• 9:27
  dark ambient storytelling. Zeb has recently taken Skogamore
• 9:32
  out of the studio and onto the live stage, performing at
• 9:35
  different Nordic and Viking themed festivals around the
• 9:38
  southeast region of the United States.
• 9:40
  In addition to creating and performing his music, Zeb is
• 9:44
  also a Craftsman in homemade beard oils and animistic
• 9:47
  jewelry, incorporating natural wood and ethically sourced
• 9:51
  animal bones into beautiful and unique items to wear.
• 9:54
  Follow Skogamore on Facebook and Instagram to stay informed of
• 9:58
  new music and live performances. Thank you to Skogamore for
• 10:03
  helping sponsor Fire on the Mountain.
• 10:09
  All righty folks, we have our return guest this week, Gidia M
• 10:15
  from the River Pine Kindred. As I mentioned early in the
• 10:18
  intro, you can check the show notes and the description area
• 10:22
  for the last episode from season 4.
• 10:26
  I believe that M was here on the show.
• 10:28
  But welcome back, Miss Gidia. Yeah, thanks for coming back and
• 10:34
  thanks for reaching out to talk about what we're going to be
• 10:38
  talking about today. It's it's always nice talking
• 10:40
  with you. You always have a really in
• 10:43
  depth way of, of going into things.
• 10:45
  And I appreciate that it helps kind of carry along the, the
• 10:48
  conversational aspect of a podcast.
• 10:50
  You know, I'm not having to dig for answers or pick things.
• 10:54
  It's always just kind of right here when we're, when we're
• 10:57
  talking to one another. So it's it's great to have you
• 10:59
  back on the show. Thanks for having me on.
• 11:03
  Yeah, and and and and you're out there just for people that maybe
• 11:07
  aren't gonna want to go back and watch or listen to the to the
• 11:11
  last episode. River Pine Kindred is a heathen
• 11:16
  tribe or heathen group located in the Tex Arklatex, I believe
• 11:22
  is the way you described the region of the United States,
• 11:25
  right? Arkansas, Arkansas, Texas,
• 11:27
  Louisiana, sort of tri-state region.
• 11:30
  Is that right? Yeah, correct.
• 11:33
  And you're in Texarkana or thereabouts.
• 11:36
  Yeah, I live about 20 minutes South of Texarkana, but like all
• 11:41
  the community that we have is all in Texarkana area.
• 11:45
  Yeah. We that's our like our middle
• 11:48
  point where we meet up at so. Yep, and you have a interactive
• 11:53
  group on Facebook called Arklatex Heathens.
• 11:58
  I think it is. Yeah, it's just posting
• 12:01
  historical stuff and events that we have going on and different
• 12:06
  aspects of things that I feel that people would benefit from
• 12:10
  reading about. And then I post my River Pine
• 12:13
  Kindred stuff on that group too, and other people's stuff that's
• 12:16
  making videos like yours and like Eric's videos.
• 12:20
  And there's a couple other people from different like we
• 12:22
  have an academic lady from Denmark that works at a museum
• 12:26
  and she writes little blogs for us on their on their point of
• 12:31
  view from Denmark from the heathen perspective.
• 12:35
  OK, nice. Yeah, yeah.
• 12:37
  And I'm in that. I'm in that group too.
• 12:38
  And I pop in occasionally and like to share stuff, especially
• 12:41
  when it comes to, you know, folks like yourself affiliated
• 12:44
  with either RPK or the Arklatex heathen area.
• 12:50
  You know, if it if it touches people in those regions, I'm
• 12:54
  like, well, let's put some stuff out there 'cause you never know
• 12:56
  who just might be looking for something.
• 12:58
  And that may be, you know, needing a little bit of support,
• 13:03
  you know, feeling like they're not alone, you know, right, Like
• 13:06
  some networking type stuff. So yeah.
• 13:09
  And you definitely are have been an advocate.
• 13:10
  I know we talked last time you came on the show about community
• 13:15
  work and, and how we can do things as you know, as heathens
• 13:19
  and, and reaching out to our communities and being
• 13:22
  accessible. And this is part of it,
• 13:24
  especially in modern times, you know, we have these tools at our
• 13:27
  disposal and they can be, they can definitely be beneficial
• 13:32
  and, and, and be useful and helpful for folks that are
• 13:34
  looking for their like, I would say maybe like quote, UN quote
• 13:37
  heathen home, you know what I mean?
• 13:40
  Yeah, I actually had somebody messaged me, I think it was like
• 13:43
  an hour or two ago on the River Pine Kindred chat thing for
• 13:46
  messenger. And they were like, hey, I'm
• 13:49
  from North Dakota, like Fargo, ND And I was like, oh, really?
• 13:52
  And they're like, yeah, we're having problems finding people.
• 13:55
  And I was joking. I was like, well, most of them
• 13:57
  is in Texas. That's why like I was like, but
• 14:02
  I was like, I'll help you look for somebody.
• 14:04
  So I went to follow the old ways and I posted on me, you know, in
• 14:08
  search of a kindred or a Pagan group.
• 14:10
  And then I found like two groups in North Dakota on Facebook just
• 14:14
  looking around, but they're like Pagan groups.
• 14:18
  So yeah. They're more of a roundabout of
• 14:20
  all the pagans and stuff like that, not just heathens.
• 14:23
  And so I spent that him and then they chatted with me for a
• 14:25
  little bit and I'm like, OK, I was like, well, if I find
• 14:28
  anything else, I'll let you know.
• 14:30
  So yeah, I try to help wherever I can, but just sometimes you
• 14:34
  just can't find nothing like California.
• 14:36
  California's like the worst. Dude, I had, it's funny you say
• 14:43
  that because I had somebody, I, I recently posted something
• 14:47
  about presenting or, or leading a class here in Tennessee in,
• 14:53
  in, in October for another tribe's annual event that they
• 14:57
  have called Shadowmoot. And it kind of falls into the
• 15:01
  same time frame as it's. So it's basically the equivalent
• 15:06
  of their winter nights that tribes winter nights, like
• 15:08
  that's when they do their winter nights is on is their annual
• 15:11
  shadowmoot. But I'm doing a class and
• 15:13
  somebody was commenting on the post that I had made.
• 15:16
  It was like, Hey, can you video this or can you live stream
• 15:19
  this? And I said, well, I could try
• 15:21
  because you know, we're we're going to be in like a public
• 15:23
  place. I'm not going to have stable
• 15:25
  Internet. So the live stream, it might be
• 15:27
  a bit too much. I can think about recording it.
• 15:30
  And the person who was saying this is like, I'm in California
• 15:34
  and everybody, almost everybody out here is like solitary.
• 15:39
  Yeah. I didn't realize.
• 15:41
  They're mainly up in like Northern California, but when
• 15:44
  you get like in that central and southern area, they like live in
• 15:47
  the mountains or like in Wrightwood or whatever it's
• 15:51
  called. And they're like, there's nobody
• 15:53
  out here and it's like 2 to four hours away to meet somebody.
• 15:56
  And I'm like, really? And I've been trying to help two
• 15:59
  different people and one of them finally just gave up on it.
• 16:02
  And the other one, I think she found a few people, but they
• 16:05
  weren't like what she was looking for.
• 16:07
  So I was like, I'm sorry, like it's like I got virtual classes
• 16:11
  online if you want to join that. Like I don't, I don't know how I
• 16:15
  could help you anymore to help like weave a little Frith and
• 16:17
  build community. Like there's always the
• 16:19
  Internet. And it's just like, I feel bad
• 16:21
  because, you know, here in Texas, I can name 10 kindreds in
• 16:26
  the state of Texas and two up in Oklahoma and like 3 in Arkansas
• 16:32
  and like, I think like 4 in like the Louisiana area.
• 16:38
  But like for the reason. Over in that area, they're just
• 16:40
  like hit and miss. Yeah, well, I mean, for anybody,
• 16:44
  anybody that catches this, that's out in that, you know,
• 16:47
  the, the, the Pacific West Coast, you know, if you know of
• 16:53
  anything, comment and, and let people know, man, 'cause this,
• 16:57
  this, this podcast reaches an audience.
• 16:59
  And if, if there's people out there that are looking and, and
• 17:03
  are, are wanting a home, as I've, as I've always said, you
• 17:06
  know, right, if, if you, if you can't find a way, make a way.
• 17:10
  So if you, if you don't have the community there, it starts with
• 17:16
  one thing. All right?
• 17:17
  I mean, you got to plant the seed, but I know how tough that
• 17:21
  is. And, and it can be challenging
• 17:23
  and sometimes, you know, people just are looking for that
• 17:27
  establishment or semi establishment of a group that
• 17:31
  they can align with. And it kind of it kind of leans
• 17:36
  into towards like what we're talking about today with, you
• 17:38
  know, heathen organizations being registered as a as a
• 17:44
  charitable non profit A5O1C3 organization.
• 17:52
  And you had approached me with this thing over, I think a
• 17:57
  Facebook post some months ago. And then we connected again and
• 18:01
  was like, yeah, let's come back on the show and talk about it.
• 18:04
  Now. I, I, I don't want to assume,
• 18:06
  but I, I, I would venture to say that you have some experience
• 18:10
  with the process of registering a organization, whether it's RPK
• 18:16
  or whatever, as a, as a nonprofit, Am I correct?
• 18:20
  Yes, I can. I could tell you step by step
• 18:22
  what you need to do. Like if you're in the Texas area
• 18:25
  now from other another state, they may have stuff that's just
• 18:28
  a little bit different from what Texas is doing.
• 18:32
  But like even for us, like I tell everybody when it comes to
• 18:35
  like the whole building community and you know, building
• 18:39
  the kindred for the foundation and getting those, you know,
• 18:42
  that seed planted to get those roots going.
• 18:46
  I just tell everybody Rome was not built in a day, nor was a
• 18:50
  kindred or a community. Slow and steady wins the race.
• 18:54
  I promise you do not rush it because it will cost you lots of
• 18:58
  money and you will waste lots of money because it costs about.
• 19:04
  In Texas, it costed about. If you do it from the state
• 19:11
  level, it's $600. Now if you do it from the
• 19:16
  federal level, it's like, I think it's like $800.
• 19:20
  Wow. But before you even do any of
• 19:23
  that, you literally have to sit down and decide how you want to
• 19:30
  approach this. Who's going to be your board
• 19:32
  members? You have to write your bylaws,
• 19:36
  which that's going to take you six months to write.
• 19:38
  Like you might get them done in three months after you revise
• 19:41
  them six times. Then you have to do your
• 19:46
  Articles of Confederation, you have to do your statement letter
• 19:51
  of why you want to do this. And once all that stuff gets
• 19:58
  tailored and revised. And I would suggest have
• 20:00
  somebody who has a kindred in a 501C3 to look over it and be
• 20:07
  like, hey, I like what you did right here, but I would add this
• 20:09
  to it to protect you from stuff because there's things you got
• 20:12
  to protect the actual kindred. Because it's a business.
• 20:16
  It's turning into a business now.
• 20:19
  Yeah, you got the eyes of the IRSI mean the the the government
• 20:23
  now are involved, right When you when you register an
• 20:27
  organization as a charitable nonprofit, you're you're tax
• 20:30
  exempt. And then, well, no, there's
• 20:33
  there's another step to get that.
• 20:36
  So you have to, you know, do all your paperwork and make
• 20:41
  everything look very pretty. It's almost like you're writing
• 20:43
  an essay about this is the kindred.
• 20:46
  This is what we're going to do. This is how we are.
• 20:49
  We do 3 thirds, you know, 2/3 vote.
• 20:53
  You know what happens when you know, you could use director
• 20:57
  Dryton or, you know, priest or priestess because like you can't
• 21:02
  use give the OR go the if you want.
• 21:05
  They're not going to know what you're talking about.
• 21:08
  So we use Dryton and. Like we had the sorry, go ahead.
• 21:15
  I have a question to come back to on that when.
• 21:17
  You and so we put Dryden and then we have like our Stewart,
• 21:22
  our moderator, our secretary, our treasurer, and then we have
• 21:26
  our historian, then we have our publications person and then we
• 21:31
  have our law speaker, which your large speaker is actually your
• 21:35
  Sergeant in arms as the technical word for five O 1C
• 21:39
  threes. But as I said, you could put
• 21:41
  whatever you want. You could you could put you
• 21:44
  know, the clown operator and you know in there it's like the wall
• 21:49
  speaker. You know, you can put whatever
• 21:50
  you want, it just looks weird. And from what I've seen about,
• 21:54
  you know, different stuff, how others have done it because, you
• 21:57
  know, I was like, hey, can I borrow your bottle walls?
• 21:59
  So I could just look over how you did yours so I could figure
• 22:02
  out how I want to tailor mine so I don't miss anything.
• 22:05
  And like, I actually had another kindred actually at 2 kindreds
• 22:08
  help me with mine to make sure that it was protecting us, you
• 22:14
  know, protecting the community. So if something legally did
• 22:17
  happen, you know things were put in place to.
• 22:21
  Protect us. We're covered, you know, we're,
• 22:23
  we're good, but it does cost a lot of money when you first get
• 22:27
  started because not only you have to put an attorney on a
• 22:29
  retainer after you get your 501C3, then you have to get, so
• 22:35
  the form is what's that form called?
• 22:39
  I've already forgot it. Now there's the 501C3 form.
• 22:45
  And then you have to do your SS4 to get your EIN number.
• 22:50
  And then once you do that, Texas Comptroller is going to message
• 22:53
  you and say, hey, did you do your taxes last year?
• 22:57
  Well, no, you didn't do your taxes last year because you
• 22:59
  don't have anything. So you have to go in there and,
• 23:02
  you know, put zero on everything or at least a dollar.
• 23:05
  And then Comptroller registers you and you know, you do all
• 23:10
  that through the SOS and the comptroller.gov.
• 23:14
  And then after you do all that, you have to go over there to
• 23:18
  like pay.gov and then copy and paste pieces and chunks of your
• 23:25
  bylaw and your Articles of Confederation for your
• 23:29
  statement, for your kindred, for your 501C3 and then submit that
• 23:35
  to be tax exempt for the state of Texas.
• 23:38
  And that's like 600 bucks for the state and let alone federal.
• 23:43
  And so they're just kind of like, you know, they're hitting
• 23:46
  you here and there and stuff. And like by the time you get
• 23:48
  done and like say for example, you do everything you're
• 23:51
  supposed to, like you may spend like 7 hundred $800.00 for just
• 23:56
  the the state level, but then you got to go get an attorney.
• 23:59
  That's a $5000 retainer to go with it.
• 24:04
  So, so why? Why the why the why?
• 24:06
  Why retain an attorney? Because you need that.
• 24:09
  So if you ever have legal issues when you're because like the
• 24:12
  first year is always the hardest, as they say for a lot
• 24:15
  of things in life. Well, the same thing goes for
• 24:18
  like kindreds and churches and stuff, especially Pagan
• 24:21
  organizations. Because you actually get more
• 24:23
  traction for some reason once you get your 501C3.
• 24:28
  Like I've gotten more traction over this past year than I have
• 24:32
  in the five years that River Pond has been around.
• 24:36
  Because I was waiting to get, you know, the, for the right
• 24:38
  board members to come along before I got that 501C3.
• 24:43
  Because you know, for the longest, like we had 12 members
• 24:46
  and then they had, they left for personal reasons of their own
• 24:49
  spiritual issues that they were going through in life or
• 24:52
  whatever. And so it was like a revolving
• 24:54
  door for like the first like three years.
• 24:57
  And then finally we had like 7 people come along.
• 25:00
  And I'm like, I think these people are the one.
• 25:03
  So you have to cherry pick the people because anytime something
• 25:07
  goes wrong, like say for example, you know, David leaves
• 25:12
  because of personal reasons with a board member.
• 25:15
  You have to redo your paperwork for your 501C3.
• 25:19
  You have to go back in there and edit your app, your form that
• 25:24
  you have to fill out with the SOS, change your board members
• 25:31
  and, you know, move them around, put new addresses down and
• 25:35
  resubmit a form again. And like you estimating the form
• 25:40
  is free, but if there's an error, they'll charge you for
• 25:44
  it. And Texas Comptroller, you don't
• 25:46
  send something to them when you're supposed to, they're
• 25:48
  going to charge you for it. And like they'll have like
• 25:50
  penalizing stuff like if you don't do your taxes the first
• 25:54
  year, they'll charge you like every day, like a certain amount
• 25:58
  until you submit it to them. And like, I had my taxes ready
• 26:03
  by the first of the year And then they were like, oh, you
• 26:06
  don't have to do anything until you get your tax exemption
• 26:08
  letter. And I'm like, do I need to make
• 26:10
  an extension? They're like, no, no, no, don't
• 26:11
  worry about it. Because it costed like $200 to
• 26:14
  submit your thing because everything is digital now.
• 26:18
  Like you can't mail your taxes into them.
• 26:20
  So it's like you go through all these struggles for the first
• 26:23
  year and like, you know, we started in November of 2023.
• 26:29
  We haven't even made it to our first year yet for our 50123 but
• 26:33
  it took us you know, three months to get approved for the
• 26:37
  five O 1C3 and then the SS4 was like done in like a week.
• 26:43
  But it literally took seven months to get the non tax
• 26:48
  exemption status for that tax exemption status for your
• 26:52
  nonprofit. It literally took us seven
• 26:55
  months. And then I just got a letter
• 26:56
  like 2 weeks ago and I was like yay.
• 27:01
  Oh wow. But then Texas Comptroller
• 27:03
  messages me, and they're like, hey, you didn't do something we
• 27:05
  wanted. We're fixing to find you if you
• 27:06
  don't get it done in like a month.
• 27:08
  And I'm like, OK, all right, Like, hold on.
• 27:12
  It's like, calm down. Let me give you a call.
• 27:14
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a lot that, that
• 27:19
  you're, you're, you're giving us details about like there,
• 27:23
  there's so many things that that sound very specific to the state
• 27:26
  that you reside in and where you're going to register your
• 27:30
  organization in. And, and it sounds like if, if
• 27:34
  people in other states, well, I guess it, I mean, the, it's more
• 27:40
  than just a personal or, or, or people thing, right?
• 27:42
  So like, you know, I guess the, the, the big thing behind what
• 27:45
  we're talking about today is like pros and cons, right?
• 27:47
  What was the thing that really inspired or kind of sparked the
• 27:56
  interest to take what River Pine Kindred was for years as being a
• 28:02
  sort of grassroots local community kindred or tribe,
• 28:07
  right? What was the thing that pushed
• 28:09
  it beyond that into let's, let's get it on paper, let's get
• 28:14
  recognized by the United States government or the state
• 28:17
  government? What like why?
• 28:22
  What, what do you feel are the pros of doing something like
• 28:25
  that versus just keeping it off the books or I say off the
• 28:29
  books, but like outside of that, you know, the, the, the
• 28:33
  legislative processes of things. So for me, like I've always
• 28:39
  wanted to buy land and, you know, to build a community
• 28:45
  building because like I go back and forth on temples because,
• 28:49
  you know, some people say we worship outside, which I prefer
• 28:51
  to worship outside. Like to me like, you know?
• 28:55
  And why would? Like, why would we worship
• 28:58
  inside? Like, yeah, if you're at home
• 29:00
  and you're doing your, you know, ancestor alt or whatever, but
• 29:03
  it's just like, we're going to be outside.
• 29:05
  We're going to have our vey or, you know, Hogar, you know, or,
• 29:09
  you know, whatever. Yeah, you know, your Grove and
• 29:12
  stuff like that. And I was just like, why don't
• 29:14
  we just make a community building and like do our food
• 29:18
  pantry to feed the Pagan community and teach classes in
• 29:24
  there and, you know, have our banquets and worship outside in
• 29:29
  a Grove. Like, to me, that would be more
• 29:30
  feasible, you know, then having a Hoff.
• 29:34
  Like, yeah, Hoffs are beautiful, but like a lot of stuff's
• 29:37
  expensive right now. And like to get our tax
• 29:40
  exemption stuff, we wouldn't have to pay land taxes or
• 29:43
  property taxes. So that's a plus.
• 29:45
  And one of my friends from another Kindred, he was like, I
• 29:48
  think it would be really cool that if you did that because you
• 29:52
  know, what you're doing anyway is kind of unique anyway.
• 29:57
  Because for the longest we had all women in our Kindred, like
• 29:59
  we had all women. And then it slowly balanced
• 30:02
  itself out again. But he thought it would been
• 30:05
  really cool for me to have a 5O1C3 for the Kindred because I
• 30:11
  am a Gideon and like, you know, there is Gideas out there, but
• 30:14
  they're kind of few and far between.
• 30:16
  And so he thought it was really cool if I got a 5O1C3 and you
• 30:21
  know, I could get grants and stuff, that's a plus.
• 30:23
  But they're kind of harder to look through than we thought
• 30:27
  they were going to be. We thought we were just going to
• 30:28
  find them here and there and see they have tailored them to where
• 30:32
  the five O 1C threes are like Christian based.
• 30:38
  So like if we were to find one, we're like, oh, we want to do
• 30:40
  food pantries. Well, we could get a grant for
• 30:42
  that, but like we can't get a grant for like to, you know,
• 30:47
  like our first year starting out because it's not Christian
• 30:50
  based. So we have to find stuff that's
• 30:52
  kind of off the beaten path and we've been looking.
• 30:55
  So that's like one of the harder like cons of it.
• 30:57
  We thought we were going to not have issues, but we have for the
• 31:00
  past, you know, six months. But also you have to wait two
• 31:03
  years. Once you become a 501C3 you have
• 31:06
  to wait two years to get any form of grant stuff.
• 31:11
  Or you have to be established. Yeah.
• 31:14
  And you have to have like donations, like steady donations
• 31:18
  like every month. And you have to meet like a
• 31:20
  certain quota of the donations that you get.
• 31:24
  And to me, like donations are kind of like, yeah, they're
• 31:26
  great. But it's awkward to me because,
• 31:28
  you know, you read about, you know, how people used to, you
• 31:32
  know, give tidings or offerings or whatever you want to talk
• 31:35
  about. You know, when people would go
• 31:37
  past the temples like in Iceland and stuff like that, like they
• 31:40
  would pay homage or whatever, you know, and give to the go the
• 31:44
  different stuff, you know, cattle or goods or whatever.
• 31:47
  And so for me it's just like I don't, I don't know anybody that
• 31:52
  has cattle or goods like I don't need a cattle.
• 31:55
  I don't need a cargo. I don't eat chickens like I'm.
• 31:58
  I'm good on that. It's just like we live in a
• 32:00
  world where money is. Money is it?
• 32:02
  Yeah, right. But you know, nature is free,
• 32:04
  you know, so to me, like, why would we need all that stuff?
• 32:08
  And, you know, yeah, donations are nice.
• 32:10
  So we could, you know, do canned drives and, you know, we do our
• 32:14
  meet ups and we have our big potlucks and we let people take
• 32:17
  food and stuff home because we want them to.
• 32:20
  And yeah, we, we're doing stuff to raise money here and there to
• 32:23
  help, you know, our community where we're at.
• 32:27
  And we go to other people's stuff to, you know, host events,
• 32:30
  like we're going to the New Moon Market, you know, next week in
• 32:33
  Tyler and everything. And, you know, we raise a lot of
• 32:36
  money out there. Like it's great.
• 32:37
  Like we get to help the community back where we're at,
• 32:40
  you know, and you know, slowly to buy land one day.
• 32:45
  And you know. Slowly to build a building and
• 32:47
  stuff, but it's just. Yeah, when you say raise money,
• 32:50
  I mean you get to, you get to attend these events as River
• 32:54
  Pine Kindred, but you can, you can be like, well, we are, we
• 32:58
  are a, a registered 501C3. All of your, all of your
• 33:03
  donations go toward the, the, the charitable contribution of
• 33:08
  the organization to further the community, right.
• 33:10
  So you have, you have that, you have that legal backing, you
• 33:14
  have that documentation that you can, you can attend set events
• 33:20
  and present yourselves as a charitable organization where
• 33:25
  you're not looking for cash grabs or handouts or anything
• 33:28
  like that. It's for the community.
• 33:30
  Yeah, we're not like you need to give donations so you can get
• 33:34
  closer to Odin. I'm like, no.
• 33:36
  Yeah, right. No, nothing like that.
• 33:39
  It's like we're actually helping community because, you know, we
• 33:43
  do have a lot of Pagans that are going through hard times and
• 33:46
  people judge Pagans because they're Pagans and it's
• 33:48
  sometimes harder for them to get a job because they're very open.
• 33:52
  Some of them are more private than others.
• 33:55
  But it's like, you know, we have people that are in our area, you
• 33:58
  know, they, they do all right and everything, but we want to
• 34:00
  help them. Like we want to do backpacks for
• 34:03
  the kids next year for school and do their school supplies.
• 34:07
  You know, we want to buy toys for the kids for Yule when we
• 34:11
  have our Yule banquet. And you know, those money, the
• 34:15
  money that we get from fundraising and people like, you
• 34:18
  know, we buy stuff like necklace, like, you know,
• 34:20
  millionaires and oath rings and, and we have altar clothes and
• 34:24
  stuff like that. Like, you know, we haven't had
• 34:25
  like we haven't been able to like afford to buy like rooms
• 34:28
  and stuff like that because they're a little more expensive
• 34:30
  and we don't want to charge people a bunch of money for it.
• 34:34
  And you know, we can't really charge people anyway.
• 34:36
  So we tell people we're like, hey, if you donate, you know, 10
• 34:40
  to $20, you could pick something off the table 'cause you know,
• 34:43
  we can't charge anybody for anything because we are a
• 34:45
  nonprofit. So, and a lot of people forget
• 34:48
  that they're like, oh, we're, we're tax exempt, we're a
• 34:50
  nonprofit. We could charge people whatever
• 34:52
  we want. No, no, you can't, you can't do
• 34:55
  that. Like we you have stuff on the
• 34:57
  table for when you're fundraising and people donate
• 35:00
  money and stuff like that, like. You right, that's like raffles
• 35:04
  and auctions and things like that kind of fall under that
• 35:06
  category too, right? And fun, yeah, fundraising, like
• 35:09
  you could do T-shirt fundraising, like the ladies
• 35:12
  wanted to do a cookbook. And then we found out the
• 35:15
  cookbook was going to be really, really difficult.
• 35:17
  Like we've got calendars, like we're working on calendars for
• 35:20
  2025. And so we're ordering calendars
• 35:24
  and hopefully have them out by like October.
• 35:27
  So, you know, people could pick up like a, a Norse Pagan
• 35:30
  calendar. So we have like they had like a
• 35:34
  deal on them online. So I was like, well, that's
• 35:37
  really good. You know, we, you know, we could
• 35:38
  tell, you know, people, if you donate $20, you get a free
• 35:41
  calendar and a brochure and you know, a couple of goodies that
• 35:44
  we have and everything. But it's just like it's, it's
• 35:47
  really juggling because you have to treat it like a business.
• 35:51
  But at the same time, it's a, it's a religious organization.
• 35:56
  And to me, to me, I find struggles in it.
• 35:59
  I really struggle with it because I believe that the five
• 36:02
  O 1C3, yes, it does a lot of great things and it protects you
• 36:07
  from a lot of things and it helps you prosper and move
• 36:10
  forward if you do things the right way.
• 36:12
  But also at the same time, if you don't have enough board
• 36:15
  members and enough community support, like if you're just
• 36:19
  like a one man show or, you know, two people doing all the
• 36:22
  the pulling and the strings and stuff because of the business
• 36:26
  end of it, it will affect a lot of stuff from a spiritual
• 36:29
  aspect. And that's one of the things
• 36:32
  I've noticed the more you work with community.
• 36:35
  Yeah, like you're learning stuff about, you know, the community
• 36:37
  and spiritual practices and learning from other people's
• 36:39
  experience. But also at the same time, the
• 36:41
  business end of a 501C3, if you let it, it will affect the
• 36:46
  spiritual growth, not only for a go the OR a Githia, but the
• 36:51
  members and the community. Because all you're just sitting
• 36:53
  there doing is ritual. Then you're doing meet ups and
• 36:55
  stuff like that instead of work, you know, because we talked
• 36:59
  about it a while back, you know, you find more spiritual
• 37:03
  connection by practicing solitaire.
• 37:06
  But we're human. We want community.
• 37:09
  We want to relate with other people and be social.
• 37:13
  And a lot of people, you know, they yearn for it.
• 37:16
  Like I hear, you know, I have people message me all the time.
• 37:18
  I'm looking for a group and I'm like, well, we're, we're over
• 37:21
  here, but you're all the way over there.
• 37:23
  Like I'm, I'm sorry, like you could connect with us on
• 37:25
  Facebook, but you know, like, I don't know what to tell you, you
• 37:28
  know? Yeah.
• 37:29
  And if you're it's kind of like you have to, it's like it's
• 37:32
  weighing the scales. You know, it's just, it really
• 37:34
  is. It's just. 100% yeah.
• 37:37
  And that's what I, that's what I feel is such an interesting
• 37:39
  thing to to hear and talk about from somebody who's still going
• 37:44
  through it. I mean, you're, you're from the
• 37:47
  sounds of it, you know, as a, as a registered non profit, you're
• 37:51
  relatively new and you've gotten a lot of feedback.
• 37:55
  You you you've tapped into other established organizations to get
• 38:00
  buy in from their experience and like, hey, bounce this idea off
• 38:04
  of them, this, that or the other.
• 38:06
  And it and it from what I'm hearing, it sounds a lot like
• 38:10
  the thing that gets talked about by a lot of, I want to say like
• 38:22
  seasoned heathens, folks that have that have really dive dove
• 38:26
  into, you know, grassroots heathenry and have seen that
• 38:30
  heathenry thrives at the again, the, the the grassroots kind of
• 38:34
  smaller level. And how much of what A5O1C3
• 38:40
  approach to things, how much of how much of that approach takes
• 38:45
  away from the down home grassroots aspect of it, right?
• 38:52
  How for the reasons kind of what you're stating, right, it's
• 38:56
  almost like we're we're having to look at this thing as a
• 39:00
  business, as an organization that requires so much more than
• 39:06
  this small kind of insular group of people just wanting to bloat
• 39:11
  together or wanting to socialize together, right.
• 39:14
  And I don't think and, and maybe M, if you want to weigh in on
• 39:18
  this, I don't think every heathen kindred and every
• 39:21
  heathen tribe should think about registering as a 5O1C3.
• 39:26
  I don't think so. What do you think?
• 39:30
  So yeah, like if you have, if you have your own money or
• 39:33
  whatever and want your own private property, you have your
• 39:35
  own private property. Yeah, you don't have to have a
• 39:38
  5O1C3, but like I don't, I don't have all those things, right.
• 39:43
  So like, you know, and that's. What?
• 39:46
  That's what doing this sort of thing can, can, can help with
• 39:50
  and and can afford those expenses to cultivate and grow
• 39:54
  and build a community in that area.
• 39:58
  Yeah. And another thing is, is like
• 40:00
  you got to think. River Pond Kindred is an
• 40:04
  independent organization. We're not some big organization
• 40:07
  that's been around since the 70s or the 80s or 90s like Tack AFA,
• 40:12
  the through, like they've been around for a hot minute.
• 40:15
  They've got all their networking down.
• 40:17
  They, they have tons of people to where we're independent.
• 40:20
  And you know, like, I even know one that has been around for 11
• 40:24
  years as a Kindred and A501C3 and all that stuff, just like
• 40:29
  all these other groups are. And you know, they're still
• 40:33
  small in numbers. And that doesn't mean, you know,
• 40:36
  you know, more is less and less is more is just, it's a
• 40:40
  different dynamic because you're independent, like you're not
• 40:44
  some big organization and you have tons of people willing to
• 40:47
  volunteer Where with, you know, with River Pine, you know, we
• 40:51
  had a lot of people asked. They're like, well, how can we
• 40:54
  help if we don't have money? I was like, listen, money may be
• 40:58
  king, but you know, you could set the tables up when you first
• 41:03
  get there. You could set up all the food or
• 41:06
  whatever, or you could clean up afterwards.
• 41:08
  You could take the trash out. You could help keep the kids
• 41:11
  corralled while they're coloring and, you know, being little
• 41:14
  heathens and stuff like that. Or, you know, you could sit
• 41:17
  there and help set up the ritual table or, you know, participate
• 41:21
  in other ways. Like everybody has an important
• 41:23
  role. That doesn't mean you have to be
• 41:25
  somebody at the top to not be important somewhere that's just
• 41:28
  a community member because you know, we have it in like, I
• 41:31
  guess a tier like, you know, we have our community members and
• 41:36
  there's 85 of them. And then on our our members, you
• 41:41
  know, we have 9. And then, you know, we have, you
• 41:46
  know, the Gideon, the Stewart, you know, or the president and
• 41:49
  vice president. Yeah, like officers or title
• 41:52
  carrying. Yeah.
• 41:53
  And like, to me, like, I don't care about titles.
• 41:55
  I really don't. They're just, they're just
• 41:57
  Pretty Little words, you know? But for the organizational
• 42:00
  aspect of it, everybody needs to look bona fide.
• 42:03
  Yeah. Well, you talked about that.
• 42:06
  Go ahead. I'm sorry.
• 42:07
  No, no, I mean, I was going to say like you had mentioned
• 42:10
  earlier where you have a, a title of Drighton in like you
• 42:15
  have that, but you don't have it mentioned as something else
• 42:19
  because it wouldn't make sense. But yet like Dryton, Dryton is,
• 42:23
  is or Dalton, if you want to use like the old English
• 42:26
  pronunciation of it. Like it's, it's the, it's, it's
• 42:29
  the high person. It's it's the one that's like
• 42:31
  Chieftain in a way. It's, you know, like that's a
• 42:35
  that's a very unique term in very small sub sex sub units of
• 42:42
  of paganism. Like Driton's not going to be a
• 42:44
  term you hear in a Celtic Pagan circle or a Kelton, a Celtic
• 42:49
  Pagan organization. That is a term you're going to
• 42:51
  hear in dramatic or Scandinavian even.
• 42:53
  And like, I don't even know if a woman can be a driton.
• 42:55
  Like, I don't think there's a rule somewhere that says a woman
• 42:57
  can't be a driton, you know, but.
• 42:59
  Like I don't know if it's gender specific either.
• 43:01
  Yeah. And like and I don't either and
• 43:02
  I don't, I don't really worry about those things.
• 43:04
  But you think about it like since the 501C3 started, like I
• 43:08
  originally and the beginning started out as, you know, just,
• 43:12
  you know, somebody help and get the Kindred started.
• 43:15
  And then the community members elected me as the Givia.
• 43:20
  And then from the Givia I became the president of this 501C3.
• 43:26
  And then we had to add in director and then we had to add
• 43:30
  in Dryden. And it's just like the titles
• 43:35
  for this 5O1C3 keeps on going. I'm like, can I just be called a
• 43:39
  Unicorn? Like 'cause you're just adding
• 43:42
  stuff to it? It's like, how about we just
• 43:43
  call like Unicorn Amelia like I? Can I be the Minotaur?
• 43:46
  You know, like man have bull, whatever you know.
• 43:49
  It's like, oh, good grief. It's like y'all keep on giving
• 43:51
  me names and I don't care. And like, you know, yeah,
• 43:53
  somebody who has an ego, they would just eat it up, you know,
• 43:57
  just feed their ego. But for me, it's just like, I
• 43:59
  don't, I don't care. They're just pretty words.
• 44:02
  And another thing that's really concerning, So once you start a
• 44:07
  501C3, you have to be super professional.
• 44:11
  Like I can't just come to an event looking like I just woke
• 44:14
  up out of the bed. Like I can't just show up like,
• 44:17
  and I'm just hypothetically using an example because I do
• 44:20
  not do this. I can't just wake up in my
• 44:21
  pajamas and wake and bake and show up to ritual.
• 44:25
  It doesn't work that way. You have to be professional
• 44:28
  because all it takes is like, say, for example, you're at a
• 44:33
  ritual. You decided to rent a venue at a
• 44:36
  federal or a government, like State Park or whatever, Right.
• 44:42
  And say, for example, they have rules like, you can't drink at
• 44:44
  the lake. That's a given.
• 44:46
  You can't, you know, like after a certain time period, you got
• 44:50
  to be quiet. Like, you can't be corralling,
• 44:52
  drinking, smoking or, you know, doing whatever.
• 44:57
  Because if a cop or a state trooper or whoever's out there,
• 45:01
  a Ranger catches you. Yeah.
• 45:04
  And they realized you're an organization, a church
• 45:07
  organization. They will rely on you and.
• 45:11
  You will lose your 501C3 and they will investigate your
• 45:16
  stuff. And like, I don't know how far
• 45:19
  they do that because, you know, since since River Pond started,
• 45:23
  like nobody's really bothered us.
• 45:27
  Like we've gotten more attention drawn to us, but nobody's really
• 45:31
  bothered us. Or you know, like we get basic
• 45:33
  stuff. They're like, oh, you know, are
• 45:36
  you left or right or are y'all political?
• 45:39
  And I'm like, no, like we're in the middle of the road.
• 45:42
  Like grassroots, you know, grassroots heathenry.
• 45:46
  Like, I don't care what you do in your free time.
• 45:48
  Like we're here to, you know, keep the old ways alive and
• 45:51
  strong and on our gods and our ancestors.
• 45:54
  Like keep your baggage at the front door and pick it up when
• 45:57
  you leave. Like, we're here to do religious
• 45:59
  stuff. We're not here for political
• 46:02
  grandstanding and all that stuff.
• 46:04
  And like, that was some of the questions that it asked, like,
• 46:06
  are you with a candidate party? And I was like.
• 46:09
  No, I'm like are. You with a hospital or another
• 46:13
  government entity that's sponsoring you?
• 46:15
  Do you give charitable donations to candidates?
• 46:18
  And I'm like, no, like they they want to know, like if church and
• 46:22
  state is time together because they want to know.
• 46:25
  And I'm just like, Nope, no Sir would be mine.
• 46:28
  And it's just to me, it's just like there's a fine line now
• 46:31
  that I have to walk, which I've always been professional anyway.
• 46:34
  Like I've always been ladylike and, you know, very humble and
• 46:38
  welcoming and very, you know, open and talking with people
• 46:41
  about stuff. But now it's like, say, for
• 46:45
  example, somebody shows up drunk to our event and gets hurt and
• 46:48
  the cops get called, you know, and I don't know about it
• 46:51
  because I'm too busy helping with something else that the
• 46:53
  other side of an event that I'm working at because, you know,
• 46:55
  our events are pretty big. Like we can't keep up with
• 46:58
  everything. Like, you know, we're going to
• 46:59
  the New Moon Market and, you know, yeah, like, I'm not
• 47:02
  running it, but I am a person out there with a booth.
• 47:06
  So if something happens out there, like, you know, if
• 47:08
  protesters show up and the owner has to deal with them, I'm.
• 47:13
  I am witnessing all of this. And I'm just like, Nope, it's
• 47:15
  time to go pack things up and I'm going to go sit in my car
• 47:18
  until these people leave. I'm not going to be affiliated
• 47:20
  with any of this because it can affect the Kindred.
• 47:24
  Yeah, there's a reputation associated with, with, with,
• 47:28
  with, with going that route. And you know, and speaking from
• 47:32
  a heathen world view on things like reputation, Giffrain, like
• 47:35
  that's a big thing. And I feel like that's an,
• 47:39
  that's an element that is part of entering into the idea or the
• 47:47
  approach of 5O1C3 not registered nonprofit.
• 47:52
  Like, again, it's a registration.
• 47:53
  You are on paper, you are on a list.
• 47:57
  You're on a list now, Cuz how many?
• 48:00
  Like, I don't know if you know, but like last I checked, I mean,
• 48:03
  there were thousands of registered 5O1C3 religious
• 48:08
  organizations in the United States.
• 48:09
  And I've checked not all that long ago, but we're talking in
• 48:12
  the thousands, you know what I mean?
• 48:14
  So yeah, you're, you're, you're essentially just a name on a
• 48:16
  list. Nobody cares at the big like
• 48:20
  probably at a high level like nobody cares what your
• 48:23
  affiliation is to that. But the the fact is is you're on
• 48:26
  the list. You could look.
• 48:28
  Your stuff up like if you go to the SOS and look for a non
• 48:33
  profit you could find other ones in your area.
• 48:35
  Like I actually found one a couple of nights ago.
• 48:38
  They were at, it's called Texarkana, TX a saw true
• 48:44
  Kindred. And they were like they were
• 48:48
  founded in like 1987. I'm like, that was like a year
• 48:52
  before I was born. I don't even know these people
• 48:54
  existed. I'm like, where did they go?
• 48:56
  Why is their status still lit up?
• 48:58
  If they're, they're not active in the, you know, the community,
• 49:01
  but you could find anybody and it tells you if it's active, if
• 49:06
  they've paid their taxes, like so say for example, they didn't
• 49:09
  get their tax exemption. Somebody can go in there and pay
• 49:12
  for their stuff if they wanted to like your stuff.
• 49:16
  Like within the first month of doing the 501C3 I got put on
• 49:22
  this bizarre or pedia or whatever.
• 49:27
  It's almost like Wikipedia, but it's like business of pedia.
• 49:31
  OK, that's weird. It gave it literally, it gave
• 49:35
  River Pine Kindred's name, that we were nonprofit, our status
• 49:39
  and our tax exemption, like if it was still in process or
• 49:42
  whatever. And then it gave my name, my
• 49:44
  address and all my board members.
• 49:47
  And I sit there and I message them, I'm like, why are you
• 49:49
  putting this up here? And I went to message them to
• 49:51
  tell them to take it off and they won't take it off.
• 49:53
  They're like, no, it's public record.
• 49:55
  And so you can find all this public record stuff.
• 49:57
  And I'm just sitting here like. That's a that's gotta be, I
• 50:01
  mean, if we, if you wanna, if you wanna talk about pros and
• 50:03
  cons, I mean, for people listening to this and watching
• 50:06
  this later on that are thinking about it.
• 50:09
  I mean, realize what steps you're going to be taking and
• 50:14
  what ends up happening when you take those steps.
• 50:17
  You're no longer this face behind the screen.
• 50:21
  You're no longer this persona that you wish to exude through
• 50:25
  social media. You are on the record, your
• 50:30
  reputation, the organization's organization's reputation,
• 50:34
  everything is on the line. I mean, it's, it's official now.
• 50:42
  Like even with you, like, you know, yeah, you don't have the
• 50:44
  same things that I do. And y'all are, you're in your
• 50:46
  own individual thing. I don't want the government, but
• 50:50
  like even with y'all, like people will watch what y'all do,
• 50:53
  just like they watch what River Pine Kindred will do.
• 50:56
  But with me, I can lose my status.
• 50:58
  Where you, the worst thing they can do is like try to press
• 51:01
  charges on you. Like you could still like, say
• 51:04
  for example, like we were at an event and you know, one of our
• 51:08
  guys got drunk or whatever and got hurt.
• 51:10
  Like we would all get tickets for it.
• 51:13
  Like I would get a ticket because I'm a nonprofit
• 51:15
  organization and you would get a ticket because your guy that's a
• 51:19
  part of your group and you know, that's how they, you know,
• 51:22
  punish and deal out, you know stuff.
• 51:24
  So you know, it's just, it's really interesting because you
• 51:26
  know, even if you don't have a 5 on one C3, you'll still get a
• 51:29
  ticket like I will or whatever. And it's still like the
• 51:32
  punishments are still dealt the same.
• 51:34
  It's just 501C3 gets put on spotlight where you're just
• 51:37
  like, oh, we just gave him a ticket and sent him on his way.
• 51:40
  Yeah, the ramifications seem to be a bit higher.
• 51:42
  The stakes are higher. Right.
• 51:44
  Yeah. And like, say, for example,
• 51:45
  somebody makes me mad, you know, I have to walk away and be the
• 51:48
  bigger person, which I'm going to do that anyway.
• 51:50
  But like, say, for example, you don't have to do that if you
• 51:52
  don't want to. You could make somebody Facebook
• 51:54
  famous and not care. Like with me, if I do that, I'm
• 51:58
  going to get put on blast and then it's gonna possibly put my
• 52:02
  501C3 in jeopardy. And then they're gonna be like,
• 52:05
  oh, she's this, she's that or the other.
• 52:07
  And then all they got to do is start slinging words that are
• 52:10
  like, you know. Yeah.
• 52:12
  You know, protesting words or whatever they use and stuff.
• 52:15
  And yeah, you know, for. Me, it's just like, no, I feel
• 52:18
  like that's. I feel like that's what makes it
• 52:20
  such a, a delicate thing in our climate, yeah.
• 52:25
  In our in our political climate, in just the cultural climate
• 52:29
  here in the US specifically, basically like everybody's got a
• 52:32
  voice, everybody's got a social media platform that they can go
• 52:35
  on and try to cancel somebody for saying, thinking, smelling,
• 52:39
  looking a certain way, right. And then when you get into what
• 52:45
  we're talking about, when you're moving towards legitimacy for
• 52:49
  the right reasons, obviously, you know, the river Pine
• 52:52
  Kindred, you know, and, and give you AM here.
• 52:55
  You know what I perceive the reason to be a registered
• 53:01
  nonprofit is, is for good reasons.
• 53:04
  It's for community growth, it's for networking, it's for the
• 53:08
  benefit and betterment of people in in our respective
• 53:14
  communities. And that's good, right?
• 53:16
  That's that's a good. I think that's a good vision to
• 53:19
  have and that's a good reason to approach it despite the the
• 53:24
  struggles and despite the downfalls and the things that
• 53:26
  could come along with it, right. The pros outweigh the cons in,
• 53:31
  in RP KS approach right in, in River Pines approach.
• 53:35
  Maybe in other people, maybe maybe the cons are a bit more
• 53:39
  than what the pros are because of their size or their
• 53:43
  establishment. I don't know, like I feel like
• 53:46
  it's individual group assessment.
• 53:49
  Like, you can't necessarily say that because River Pine thought
• 53:53
  that it was going to be good for them, then this group over here
• 53:56
  is going to be good for them as well for those same reasons.
• 54:00
  Like you've got to weigh it out in your own aspect, Would you
• 54:04
  agree? Like I go back and forth because
• 54:09
  everybody does kindreds differently.
• 54:11
  Like you think about all these ones that's been around for a
• 54:14
  while. They have more volunteer people
• 54:16
  and like the first year is always the hardest in the stand.
• 54:18
  They're like, you know what, like 5 or 10 years down the
• 54:21
  road, I may look back at this video that we're talking about
• 54:23
  and I'm like, man, I was, I was just overthinking it and being a
• 54:27
  worry ward. Ain't nothing happened.
• 54:29
  All is well, like, you know, it may be, you know, like, 'cause
• 54:34
  for me, like I've always been a worry ward.
• 54:36
  I get called a grandma all the time worrying about stuff.
• 54:39
  No, I get it. For me, it's like I've always,
• 54:42
  you know, kept my P's and Q's and stuff like that and been
• 54:44
  very professional and stuff like that when it comes to the
• 54:47
  kindred because I don't want anything to happen because that
• 54:49
  was a lot of money and I would hate for it to go to waste or
• 54:52
  lose it or have it dissolve or, you know, because other people
• 54:55
  can actually pick your kindred up if it's not in status.
• 54:59
  Like people pick up, you know, regular churches all the time
• 55:02
  and it's, it's pretty normal. They just sign a deed over and
• 55:05
  that's it. And I'm just like, wow.
• 55:07
  And like only thing you can do is go to court about it.
• 55:11
  Like, you know, there's, there's an abandoned church right down
• 55:13
  the road for me and all you have to do is, oh, somebody didn't
• 55:16
  pay their taxes on it. Well, we're A501C3.
• 55:19
  We're going to pick up and pay their taxes and then we're going
• 55:21
  to make it tax exempt. And then we're going to own that
• 55:24
  since John's dad died 10 years ago.
• 55:26
  And we're going to take over that church and redo it.
• 55:29
  They can do that stuff. And there's just weird little
• 55:32
  loopholes with all the 501C3. And I know I'm like over
• 55:36
  analyzing it, but it's the truth.
• 55:38
  That's the thing, like people can do what I just said and
• 55:42
  there is stipulation. To.
• 55:43
  Everything, like I said earlier, you know, there's other people
• 55:47
  that's way ahead of us on what we're doing, you know, and I
• 55:50
  know Rome wasn't built in a day, nor was this kindred.
• 55:53
  And it's just, you know, I'm pretty sure I'm going to look
• 55:55
  back on this, you know, 5 or 10 years, you know, and be like,
• 55:57
  oh, I was being so dramatic and overanalyzing and, you know, in
• 56:01
  the name of, you know, good faith and everything, you know,
• 56:05
  but it's just, it's a lot of work.
• 56:07
  And the more volunteers you have and more reliable people you
• 56:11
  have, it makes the process go a lot easier.
• 56:14
  If not, you're going to sit there and be doing it like day
• 56:16
  and night until you get it to where you need it to be.
• 56:19
  Like I've had to make special trips to go visit a kindred to
• 56:23
  make sure that I did everything I was supposed to do so I could
• 56:27
  submit it. You know, like there was, I
• 56:29
  think there was like 3 or 4 months, like I was going down to
• 56:31
  Dallas once a month. Let my friend check out the five
• 56:34
  O 1C3 stuff for his, for our kindred because he's already
• 56:38
  done one. And he was like, yeah, it looks
• 56:40
  good. I would add this in here or you
• 56:43
  know, I would do this part on your taxes because it's not,
• 56:46
  it's not making sense or whatever, you know, and I was
• 56:49
  like, OK, I was like, thank you, I appreciate it.
• 56:51
  You know, and we donated to his kindred for him, you know,
• 56:54
  helping us with our stuff. So we could, you know, have
• 56:58
  everything down pat, you know, you know, a gift for a gift, you
• 57:02
  know, and it was just, it was just a lot of work, you know,
• 57:05
  those, those first seven or eight months.
• 57:08
  And it was just like, good grief.
• 57:09
  And you have to keep a paper trail.
• 57:11
  You have to keep all your receipts.
• 57:13
  And like, one of the things they don't tell you is, you know,
• 57:15
  like paper receipts that you get from like Walmart or whatever.
• 57:20
  Oh yeah. Like those, those things you
• 57:23
  have to photocopy them. Like you have to photocopy it on
• 57:26
  your little printer or they will slowly fade.
• 57:29
  And then like if you get a bank account, they have to see your
• 57:32
  status stuff and where your board members voted to have a
• 57:36
  bank at that bank. So you can get business cards.
• 57:40
  And you have to have two members to open a bank.
• 57:45
  So you have your treasurer and then you have your president or
• 57:48
  vice president if you want, or the secretary.
• 57:51
  And then you'll have to go open a bank account on your days off
• 57:54
  to do that. And then you have to show your
• 57:56
  501C3, your EIN number. And then you have to show the
• 58:01
  board meeting for your minutes that y'all approved to have a
• 58:06
  bank here. And you have to do short minutes
• 58:11
  every single month and have a board meeting every single month
• 58:14
  like clockwork. And you have to have short and
• 58:16
  long minutes for that to make it look to have it bonafide, not to
• 58:20
  make it look bonafide to have it bonafide.
• 58:22
  To be yeah, To be legitimate, yeah.
• 58:23
  Because. You have to have a paper trail.
• 58:26
  Everything that you buy has to be put on the Kindred's card
• 58:28
  like it cannot be done with. You know, one of the board
• 58:31
  members paid cash for it. That's a no, no, you can't do
• 58:33
  that. You have to use your card.
• 58:36
  And so it's just little tedious things in it.
• 58:38
  Like once you get the hang of it, it stops chipping, chipping
• 58:41
  away at you after a while, you know.
• 58:44
  So it's just like, yeah, we're tax exempt.
• 58:47
  We could apply for grants now for like youth stuff for the
• 58:50
  kids and, you know, food pantries and stuff like that.
• 58:54
  And slowly we'll find ones that are tailored to non Christians
• 58:58
  eventually because, you know, there's difference between
• 59:01
  business ones and nonprofit. Charity can't.
• 59:05
  Get a business one they want to prove you have to get a
• 59:07
  nonprofit. Yeah.
• 59:08
  For charity and so got a weed through them and they always
• 59:12
  have deadlines and every time we caught one it was like the week
• 59:15
  of and it needs to be 5 pages long.
• 59:17
  And I'm like yeah, that's not happening, don't worry about it.
• 59:20
  And so it's just like you got to get used to being a business and
• 59:24
  I'm like man, this is not what I had.
• 59:25
  I had planned on like I was working on, you know, having the
• 59:30
  kindred, what it is for spiritual purposes.
• 59:34
  And now it's turned into this, this spiritual business.
• 59:39
  And I'm just like, can we just go back to going out in nature
• 59:43
  again and just like, let's just play this paperwork like
• 59:46
  somewhere else? Because it's to me, it's just
• 59:48
  like, yeah, it's worth it in the end.
• 59:50
  But it's just like once it finally calms down and I'm sure
• 59:53
  that it'll calm down after like year 2 or something with all
• 59:58
  like dealing with the paperwork, you know, because we're still,
• 1:00:01
  we're not even into a full year. So for me.
• 1:00:03
  Yeah, in its infancy, yeah. Yeah, it's in its infancy.
• 1:00:06
  So for me, it's like all it will, all of it will settle down
• 1:00:10
  for the board members because it's not affecting the
• 1:00:12
  community, it's affecting the Kindred members that are board
• 1:00:15
  members. So you're the ones behind the
• 1:00:17
  scenes doing all the hard work and everything, yeah.
• 1:00:20
  And so we're just like chipping away in between working and
• 1:00:23
  having our, you know, taking care of our families and cooking
• 1:00:25
  dinner and cleaning our houses and we're.
• 1:00:28
  Just like you've essentially taken on another full time job.
• 1:00:32
  Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and that was one
• 1:00:34
  of the other things. Thank you for saying that.
• 1:00:37
  So, you know, normally with other churches, you know, the
• 1:00:39
  preacher gets paid or certain people get paid.
• 1:00:44
  Nobody gets paid for River Pine. No one.
• 1:00:47
  It's all volunteer. I don't get paid for doing the
• 1:00:51
  ritual. I don't get paid for marrying
• 1:00:53
  people or, you know, blessing babies or cleansing houses or I
• 1:00:57
  don't get paid for any of that. And nobody in the Kindred does.
• 1:01:00
  Yeah. Now if somebody uses their own
• 1:01:03
  money to buy something for the Kindred, we have to vote and
• 1:01:07
  have a meeting to pay, you know, John, Sarah, Tiffany for buying
• 1:01:12
  whatever it was they did and approve it.
• 1:01:14
  And then we have to write a check through our bank to give
• 1:01:18
  to them and memo it in there. And you know, we have to do our
• 1:01:21
  our donation statements every month.
• 1:01:24
  We have to do our receipt statements every month.
• 1:01:26
  And we have a spreadsheet for Excel on all our spending and
• 1:01:30
  what is at the beginning and the end of the month.
• 1:01:33
  So it's just like, I feel like I'm running a business big time
• 1:01:38
  with Excel, you know? And to me, like Excel is like,
• 1:01:41
  it's convenient. It's not perfect, but it makes
• 1:01:44
  life a lot easier so. It does once you learn it, once
• 1:01:48
  you, once you, once you, once you're good at it, man, it can,
• 1:01:50
  it can be invaluable to keeping track of schedules, expenses,
• 1:01:57
  just, I mean, all kind of that's what it's built for, you know
• 1:01:59
  what I mean? But you know, but yeah, you're
• 1:02:02
  right. Like it, it, it's it, you know,
• 1:02:04
  we're talking so much about this in the heathen space.
• 1:02:09
  And a lot of what Heathenry is about is, as you pointed out,
• 1:02:13
  right, just connecting to nature and connecting with community
• 1:02:17
  and doing those things. And I, I feel like so much of
• 1:02:20
  what we're talking about is it's almost like if people that are,
• 1:02:23
  are listening or watching to this would be be like, well,
• 1:02:26
  that just sounds like, you know, more work than it's worth.
• 1:02:30
  Yeah. It's a lot of work and if you
• 1:02:32
  don't have patience for it, you won't like it.
• 1:02:35
  And like there's times I've gotten, you know, disappointed
• 1:02:38
  or irritated. I'm like, this is for the birds,
• 1:02:41
  you know? But then I'll like call somebody
• 1:02:43
  and they'll help me. They're like, Nah, you were, you
• 1:02:45
  were just overthinking it. Like all you had to do is this.
• 1:02:47
  And I'm like, oh, OK, thanks. Yeah.
• 1:02:49
  Or are you getting, you know, caught up in the emotional
• 1:02:52
  moment of the thing? And and that's, that's a, that's
• 1:02:57
  warranted. I mean, that's expected, you
• 1:02:59
  know, to be overwhelmed, right? Yeah, I'm like, you know, we
• 1:03:02
  have our own things for the Kindred now because we have a
• 1:03:05
  law speaker now that he deals with stuff and he deals what's
• 1:03:08
  justifiable. And like, so when we're having a
• 1:03:11
  meeting and somebody disagrees with one of us, he has to
• 1:03:14
  moderate, he has to clear it up. Like you can't do this.
• 1:03:19
  It goes against the bylaws. And so now, now we have just
• 1:03:25
  like our ancestors did, we have religion, our society, part of
• 1:03:31
  it, we have our laws, all of that's all mixed together with
• 1:03:38
  our way of life, just like our ancestors had it.
• 1:03:42
  And to me, it's just kind of like, wow, we're repeating
• 1:03:44
  history, but now we have our own thing because chieftains or go
• 1:03:48
  these and Gideas or Drightens or whatever you want to call it,
• 1:03:52
  because somebody set up and put something in place and like, my
• 1:03:55
  stuff is fair. Like I don't have a bunch of
• 1:03:57
  ridiculous stuff. Like, yeah, like if you don't
• 1:03:59
  show up for a year, like we may call you and be like, hey man,
• 1:04:02
  are you doing OK? Like if you don't want to be a
• 1:04:04
  part of it anymore, we'll take you off of our stuff, you know,
• 1:04:07
  and you won't be a board member anymore.
• 1:04:09
  Or, you know, like if somebody calls us drama, like, I don't, I
• 1:04:13
  don't deal with drama, so. Yeah, you kind of get put on
• 1:04:16
  notice, like hey, you know, everybody gets one next time,
• 1:04:20
  you know? Yeah man, I don't know mate,
• 1:04:25
  like a lot. I'm in an.
• 1:04:28
  Hour. That's I didn't figure.
• 1:04:30
  I figured we'd make it like 30-45 minutes and I'd be like,
• 1:04:32
  OK, are you kidding? Me yeah, I figured I mean I
• 1:04:36
  figured that this would be something that would get into
• 1:04:39
  the minutiae a bit and we would lose track of time a little bit
• 1:04:42
  but yeah, we've we've hit the hour, you know I mean like
• 1:04:46
  we've. I have to hop off here because I
• 1:04:49
  have to. You got to go.
• 1:04:51
  Yeah, I got to go sadly, and I want to keep on talking, but I
• 1:04:53
  got other stuff. I have to take care.
• 1:04:55
  Of absolutely no, and I and I appreciate your time, M and I
• 1:04:59
  and, and for everybody that's, you know, catching this podcast
• 1:05:02
  and listening put into mine, put into consideration the things
• 1:05:06
  that somebody who's gone through this and is currently going
• 1:05:10
  through this and will be going through this probably for for
• 1:05:12
  years, is sharing and just weigh it all out.
• 1:05:15
  Obviously, state legislatures are going to vary.
• 1:05:18
  Well, we're hearing from somebody who is going through
• 1:05:21
  this under the Texas State government, you know, so state
• 1:05:26
  and local laws may differ wherever you are, again, in the
• 1:05:31
  United States, because that's where we are.
• 1:05:35
  But I feel like there's, there's definitely pros, there's
• 1:05:38
  definitely cons and there's things that just have to be
• 1:05:40
  weighed out and considered. Action is better than inaction.
• 1:05:44
  If you have it in your mind and you're in a position to consider
• 1:05:49
  taking action, that's good because it's better to do
• 1:05:53
  something than to do nothing. But, but also take into
• 1:05:57
  consideration the, the, the members, the, the other people
• 1:06:01
  that are involved and, and, and participants, the players on the
• 1:06:05
  field and go about it the right way.
• 1:06:08
  Like do your research, be educated, it can be done.
• 1:06:13
  There's ways of going about it that can definitely make it
• 1:06:17
  right and, and, and make it a beneficial thing, But don't,
• 1:06:20
  don't, I guess I think the biggest thing for me is to take
• 1:06:23
  away from this is, is you know, don't think that just because
• 1:06:27
  you've established a grassroots heathen organization that now
• 1:06:31
  the next step for you to advance is to register it as a nonprofit
• 1:06:36
  501. It is.
• 1:06:38
  It is not for everybody, right? It is not like, yeah, we've done
• 1:06:42
  well and we've had little hiccups.
• 1:06:44
  But you got to have a lot of patience.
• 1:06:46
  You got to have a lot of people to help you do it.
• 1:06:48
  Like, you know, it says it takes a village.
• 1:06:50
  I'm, I'm not kidding. It takes a village.
• 1:06:53
  A lot of moving parts, but. There is a bonus to it.
• 1:06:57
  You do get a lot of free stuff from like Microsoft and like you
• 1:07:01
  get charitable hookups from like PayPal, cash app and a lot of
• 1:07:05
  other places for free stuff. But like I don't think it
• 1:07:08
  outweighs the the five O 1C3. Right.
• 1:07:12
  Yeah, but. Yeah, it was great.
• 1:07:15
  Thank you for having me and everything.
• 1:07:17
  Absolutely, and thank you for being here.
• 1:07:20
  Everybody that's listening and watching to this show.
• 1:07:23
  Everything about River Pine Kindred's going to be LinkedIn
• 1:07:25
  the description and show notes of the podcast.
• 1:07:28
  So if you want to follow along with what they're doing, check
• 1:07:31
  all that stuff out. And thank you very much, Emily
• 1:07:34
  for or, or M for, for being here on your night off or whatever.
• 1:07:41
  And, and, and talking to us about your experience.
• 1:07:43
  Definitely appreciate it. And I'll talk to you here in
• 1:07:47
  just a second before you go. But for everybody else that's
• 1:07:49
  listening and watching, thank you all so much for your
• 1:07:51
  support. Check all the ways that you can
• 1:07:54
  support and, and, and, and help with what we're doing here and
• 1:07:57
  what River Pine is doing in the Arc Latex region of the country.
• 1:08:02
  And for everybody else that is listening and watching, thank
• 1:08:04
  you so much. Hail to you all.
• 1:08:07
  May your ancestors smile upon you and may the gods continue to
• 1:08:10
  notice you. And we'll see you in the next
• 1:08:12
  one.