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American Idol Caleb Flynn Recants: I Did Not Kill My Wife! Grounds for New Trial? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Tonight, the American Idol star, Caleb Flynn, a.k.a. inmate, recants.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: The jury has just found him guilty for plugging his
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: wife with two bullets to the back of the head
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: in her sleep. We just endured his sniveling and his
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: lips trembling and his horrific singing odes to his sex
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: monkey mistress. We had to go through all that in court.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Now he jumps up and says, I did not kill
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: my wife. Translation, grounds for a new trial. Good evening.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I'm Auntie Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Is she gone?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Is she gone? Is she gone? Yes, because you killed her.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: You shot her twice in the back of the head
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: as she was lying asleep.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: The jury saw right through it, Nancy. 107,000 text messages
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: between Caleb Flynn and his mistress, Aaliyah Botner.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: What we're looking at is the ultimate performance.
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: I have unfortunately lied.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: About a lot of things over the last couple of years.
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: But as I stand here before God, who is my
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: ultimate judge, I.
• 1:33
  Speaker 6: Am not quiet.
• 1:36
  Speaker 7: When I say I did not kill my.
• 1:39
  Speaker 5: Wife, I.
• 1:43
  Speaker 7: Will continue to fight for my innocence as long as
• 1:46
  Speaker 7: the Lord allows me to.
• 1:47
  Speaker 5: As I did not kill.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm going to have to watch that again. Do
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: you know that he actually turns around and looks at
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the lawyer because she's the only one in the courtroom
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: that pretends she might believe him? I've got to see
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: it again. The acting is amazing. At some point, he
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: has to just close his eyes so he can spit
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: the words out. One more time, please.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Roll it.
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: I have unfortunately lied about a lot of.
• 2:15
  Speaker 7: Things over the last couple of years.
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: But as I stand here before God, who is my
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: ultimate judge, I am not blind.
• 2:29
  Speaker 7: When I say I did not kill my wife, I
• 2:35
  Speaker 7: will continue to fight for my innocence as long as
• 2:38
  Speaker 7: the Lord allows me to.
• 2:41
  Speaker 6: As I did not.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Kill my wife.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, the drama. He's like, what, a fourth grade girl
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: crying on the playground? Stop it. That's from Nate Eaton,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: courtroom insider. Let's just look at it because I want
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: our guests to watch this. Guys, this may be funny
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: to some people. It's not funny to me. If there's
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: insufficient evidence or if he's recanting anything he said in
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: the past, we're looking at a new trial. I don't
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: think I can endure it. Okay, let me see it
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: in full.
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: Look at the.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Guy on the right. He's thinking, too all beef, patties, pears, sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: on and on, sausage, bun. He's like, what can I
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: have for lunch when this is over? I've been listening
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: to this for weeks. I'm dying here, people.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Randy Kessler, veteran defense attorney. Why did his lawyer let
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: him do that? I mean, please, can I, no offense, Kessler,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: but can I see the footage while Kessler talks? I just,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I can't look away from it. I have unfortunately lied
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: about a lot of things. Yeah, everything. Wait till I
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: play you the body cam.
• 3:52
  Speaker 8: Wait.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness. He dragged God into it. How does
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: God and his little daughters get dragged into everything this
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: man says?
• 4:00
  Speaker 7: Oh, look.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: She's like, right, right. When is my nail appointment? Okay, Kessler.
• 4:06
  Speaker 9: Why?
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Why did he do this? The snotting, the crying. Help me.
• 4:11
  Speaker 10: You know, you can make light of it all you want.
• 4:14
  Speaker 10: This is his entire world. He's been sitting there watching
• 4:16
  Speaker 10: for the last six months, really, not just the trial.
• 4:21
  Speaker 10: And you're only playing a small clip. If you watch
• 4:23
  Speaker 10: the entire piece, you know, from his perspective, it's very heartfelt.
• 4:27
  Speaker 10: He is, whether he's apologizing because he did it and
• 4:31
  Speaker 10: he's not saying that, or whether he's apologizing because of
• 4:33
  Speaker 10: all the harm he's caused, he's absolutely 100% responsible for
• 4:37
  Speaker 10: a lot of bad feelings and a lot of heart.
• 4:39
  Speaker 10: But He is maintaining his innocence. He has a right
• 4:41
  Speaker 10: to maintain his innocence. And the truth of the matter
• 4:43
  Speaker 10: is nobody knows 100% what happened there. The jury found
• 4:47
  Speaker 10: beyond a reasonable doubt that they believe he did it
• 4:49
  Speaker 10: based on text messages, based on motive, which you know
• 4:52
  Speaker 10: is not an element of the crime. And he was
• 4:55
  Speaker 10: convicted and he's going to go to jail the rest
• 4:57
  Speaker 10: of his life. But in his mind, he thinks he's innocent.
• 5:00
  Speaker 10: He has a right to say what he feels. And
• 5:04
  Speaker 10: if you listen to the whole thing, it would be
• 5:06
  Speaker 10: more in context. But You know, who amongst us can
• 5:09
  Speaker 10: make light of any part of this? It's a sad situation.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not making light of it because his wife was
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: murdered in her sleep.
• 5:21
  Speaker 7: Come on, what?
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Why do I have to come on?
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: His wife was murdered in her sleep and he did
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: it with the children in the next room.
• 5:28
  Speaker 10: That's making fun of it with the word thinking in
• 5:30
  Speaker 10: his mind, the jingle from McDonald's. Come on. This is
• 5:33
  Speaker 10: a serious moment.
• 5:34
  Speaker 7: No, no, no, no.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: It was the guy standing next to him. The guy
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: standing next to him who has heard his sniveling and
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: his whining and his lies for months.
• 5:46
  Speaker 10: For months. You know what?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Hold on.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Wait.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Let's hear his songs and look at the well. In
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: other words, everybody in the courtroom. While his songs to
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: his mistress are played in court. Brace yourself, everyone. They
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: whisper down numbers.
• 6:07
  Speaker 10: The years in between said love has a limit, said
• 6:13
  Speaker 10: love's not that clean.
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: But age never mattered when it was you and me.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: We were proof that forever was.
• 6:26
  Speaker 10: Something you feel not see.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Did you see them? Okay, let's watch them on mute. Kessler,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: did you see that? The painful lyrics. Look, everybody's just like,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: please stop. Please stop the torture. And when you look
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: at him, he's actually keeping a straight face. I'm sure
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: at some point he burst out crying again. These are
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the lyrics he wrote to his monkey sex mistress while
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: he's married to his wife, the mother of his two children,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: who works at the church where he is a pastor.
• 7:26
  Speaker 7: Look at this.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: That's exactly how I feel. It's mirrored on every one
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: of their faces. I mean, what are you saying that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: what he's saying now is his whole world? His whole
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: world was Ashley and those two children, the three girls.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: They're gone. It's over. And to top it all off,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: her parents were supporting them with tens of thousands of dollars.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I don't get it. Okay, what were you saying about
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: this statement, these pack of lies are his whole world?
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: He killed his whole world. He destroyed his whole world.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: And now he's saying he's innocent, which means he is
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: going to pull an insufficient evidence claim. Could you explain that?
• 8:22
  Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it's a long shot, but he's got
• 8:24
  Speaker 10: nothing else to lose, right? If he says I did it,
• 8:27
  Speaker 10: then he's got no grounds to appeal anything, right? If
• 8:30
  Speaker 10: he says I admit it, hoping for a lighter sentence.
• 8:32
  Speaker 10: And people have admitted to doing things that he haven't
• 8:34
  Speaker 10: done to get a lighter sentence. He is defend. He
• 8:37
  Speaker 10: is absolutely definitive that he did not do this. He's
• 8:40
  Speaker 10: maintaining that position. Maybe it's the way he lives with himself,
• 8:43
  Speaker 10: or maybe it's the truth. And nobody knows 100%. The
• 8:46
  Speaker 10: jury convicted based on motive, based on a hundred thousand
• 8:49
  Speaker 10: text messages. I understand exactly why they convicted, but nobody
• 8:54
  Speaker 10: saw him do it. There's no fingerprints on a murder weapon.
• 8:57
  Speaker 10: There's no murder weapon. There's no absolute proof that he
• 9:00
  Speaker 10: did it. There's as close as you might get in
• 9:02
  Speaker 10: a circumstantial case by deductive reasoning, nobody else could have
• 9:06
  Speaker 10: done it, but he's maintaining his innocence. And he's the
• 9:09
  Speaker 10: only one that was there that night that knows 100%.
• 9:11
  Speaker 10: He has a right to maintain his innocence. And that's
• 9:14
  Speaker 10: what he's doing.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Randy Kessler. Um, by the way, you are seeing video
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: from inside the courtroom from our friend, Nate Eaton at
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: courtroom insider, Randy, um, let me correct, um, a potential
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: confusion that you have just created. You often refer to
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: just a circumstantial case. Isn't it true under the law
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: that circumstantial evidence is and can be as powerful and
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: probative as direct evidence, such as a fingerprint or DNA?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Isn't that true under the law?
• 9:51
  Speaker 10: I think I already said this is probably the most
• 9:53
  Speaker 10: powerful circumstantial case you'll ever have.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: So yes, That is not what I asked you. I
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: asked you under the black and white letter of the law.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And I know somewhere in that big swanky office of
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: yours up in the sky, you've got the OCGA, the
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: official code of Georgia annotated. And in it, you will
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: see the law, the judge reads to the jury and
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: after closing arguments, and it includes a charge that circumstantial
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: evidence is and can be as powerful and as probative
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: as direct evidence. Isn't that true? Repeat.
• 10:28
  Speaker 10: Under the law, I have a chance and opportunity to
• 10:30
  Speaker 10: explain myself on cross-examination. So yes, the answer is yes,
• 10:34
  Speaker 10: but there is other kinds of evidence that is more
• 10:37
  Speaker 10: powerful and more strong, in my opinion. I think direct evidence,
• 10:39
  Speaker 10: a photograph, an admission, fingerprints, DNA evidence, all that that
• 10:43
  Speaker 10: wasn't there. This was a circumstantial case and it was
• 10:46
  Speaker 10: powerful enough to convince.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: So the answer is yes.
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: That said, when you say things like just a circumstantial case,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: that means nothing to me because that's absolutely not the law.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: But I want to point out that him claiming he
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: is innocent now bodes ill for an appeal, an immediate
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: appeal on insufficient evidence grounds. Translation, there's not enough evidence
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: to prove me guilty. He did not take the stand
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: in his own defense. Interesting. But that appellate argument is
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: governed by an old and venerable U.S. Supreme Court case,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Jackson v. Virginia, which says that all the facts produced
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: at trial will be viewed on appeal in a light
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: most favorable to the state. Isn't that true? Isn't that
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: what Jackson v. Virginia says?
• 11:47
  Speaker 10: Yes, and 100,000 texts makes it hard. It's a hard appeal.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Yes. Okay, let's refresh Randy Kessler's recollection to Dave Mack
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave Mack, there was
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: a plethora, a mountain of evidence pointing to the defendant.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Just rattle off a.
• 12:10
  Speaker 7: Few, please.
• 12:12
  Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, we had, starting with the 911 call, where
• 12:16
  Speaker 9: he is stating that there's been a break-in at his home,
• 12:21
  Speaker 9: and there were two bullet wounds to the back of
• 12:23
  Speaker 9: his wife's head. He didn't say that on the 911 call,
• 12:27
  Speaker 9: but he said that they'd had a break-in. When police
• 12:30
  Speaker 9: started looking around the house, they found in his garage,
• 12:34
  Speaker 9: they found the pickup truck with the middle console pulled
• 12:38
  Speaker 9: up and no guns. where he, Flynn, told them there
• 12:41
  Speaker 9: was a gun. We have the year-and-a-half-long affair where he
• 12:48
  Speaker 9: told his girlfriend, his mistress, that he wanted to kill
• 12:52
  Speaker 9: his wife, and he would do it if he could
• 12:53
  Speaker 9: just figure out a way to do it without spending
• 12:55
  Speaker 9: the rest of his life in jail. Those are just
• 12:58
  Speaker 9: a couple of the things that popped up during the trial, Nancy,
• 13:02
  Speaker 9: and everything points to nobody else being in the home
• 13:07
  Speaker 9: the night his wife was murdered. Nobody else was hurt
• 13:11
  Speaker 9: in the home either, his two children or himself.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Am I in the county?
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Not in the home? Somebody broke into my home. Somebody
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: broke into my home and.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Killed my wife. Are they still in there?
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, what's the address? What are you seeing?
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: Okay, it's significant right there to Shannon Hill.
• 13:32
  Speaker 11: She is the.
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: Star of Shannon Hill News on Insta.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Shannon, thank you.
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: For being with us tonight.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: That he automatically knew that And all of that matted, dark,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: once beautiful hair that she had been shot twice, which
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: is a real giveaway, isn't it?
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: It definitely is, Nancy. That is why the public is
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: referring to Caleb Flynn as the toehead weasel, because he
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: has been lying through his teeth this entire time. And
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: as much as we've been seeing him in court with
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: that cry face, we're not seeing actual tears come out
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: of those eyes. We're just seeing a lot of cry
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: face acting. But yeah, he called 911 and said, she's
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: been shot twice. As you can see in those photos
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: of Ashley Flynn, she had thick, beautiful hair. How did
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: he make out that there were two shots to her head?
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: And all we knew was that Caleb Flynn kind of
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: rattled her toe a little bit to see if she
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: was still awake. He didn't really look at her. He
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: knew because he shot her twice. Dr.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns joining us. He is the chief medical examiner,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, He is a star of
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Mayhem in the Morgue podcast online. He is an esteemed
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU and
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: has performed well over 10,000 autopsies. Dr. Kendall Crowns, thank
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you for being with us tonight. Isn't it true that
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: as part of an autopsy, when there's a gunshot wound
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: to the head, you have to shave the head? Why?
• 15:16
  Speaker 12: You shave the head in autopsies when there's trauma to
• 15:19
  Speaker 12: the head, be it blunt force, trauma, sharp force, or
• 15:21
  Speaker 12: gunshot wounds, to expose the area of injury to take
• 15:25
  Speaker 12: the hair off because the hair can actually cover the wound,
• 15:28
  Speaker 12: the blood, the brain tissue can mat over it, so
• 15:31
  Speaker 12: you can't get a good look at it. So you
• 15:33
  Speaker 12: shave the hair away to expose the wound so you
• 15:36
  Speaker 12: can properly assess it. Especially with gunshot wounds, you're going
• 15:40
  Speaker 12: to want to look for range of fire, muzzle imprints
• 15:42
  Speaker 12: if it's a contact range wound, or something.
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: Of that nature.
• 15:46
  Speaker 11: Are you hearing anything?
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: No.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: I rubbed her leg and said her name.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: She's not answering.
• 15:54
  Speaker 10: Okay.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Her daughter's not answering you?
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: No, they're in the other room. They're across the room.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 16:02
  Speaker 8: Are you hearing any kind of noise inside the house?
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: No.
• 16:06
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 16:07
  Speaker 7: What do I do?
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: What do I do?
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: What do I do?
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Is she breathing at all?
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 16:15
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: If you are comfortable, I want you to go and
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: find a cloth, and I want you to put a
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: cloth on that gunshot wound, okay?
• 16:24
  Speaker 9: Like a towel?
• 16:25
  Speaker 11: Yes, like a towel, but do not apply direct pressure
• 16:28
  Speaker 11: to it.
• 16:29
  Speaker 7: Just put it on that blood wound, okay?
• 16:31
  Speaker 10: Okay.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: He rubbed her leg. She shot twice in the head.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: He rubbed her leg. Then he goes, sure, I'll put
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: a cloth on her head.
• 16:44
  Speaker 7: I did it.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, psychoanalyst out of L.A.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: You can see her on Hulu, Bravo, Peacock. She is
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the star of a hit new podcast, On the Couch
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: with Dr. Bethany. And you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com.
• 17:04
  Speaker 10: Really?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I put him back on her head, rubbed her foot. Why?
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: You know, I'm so struck by how thin his manipulative
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: attempts are. I mean, the crying and the sobbing and
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: the two gunshot wounds. And, you know, he sort of
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: stammers a cloth, you know, to a towel. You know,
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: he acts so helpless. And we see this throughout the
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: entire trial. how manipulative he is with the mistress, manipulating
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: her through text after text after text, the suggestive power of,
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: I want my wife gone. Now he thinks he can
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: manipulate the 911 operator. He thinks he can manipulate the jurors.
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: He invokes God, Nancy, in a manipulative attempt to say, hey,
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: we all answer to some higher power. I am of
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: the same moral code as you. Do not sentence me
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: harshly because I am a dad. I have kids. I
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: have moral and financial obligations going forward. And if you
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: sentence me harshly, then my kids are going to miss out.
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: There's going to be so much collateral damage. So listen
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: to everything he's saying during the 911, during the court,
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: the standing up and saying he's not guilty, the crying.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know what, Nancy?
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: The most manipulative thing he does, and I think this
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: is so fascinating, is when he cries like a little girl,
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: as you pointed out, he raises his voice as if
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: to say, I'm not aggressive. I'm not an aggressive male.
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: I'm just like an innocent little girl. Don't sentence me harshly.
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: So you think about this running from beginning to sentencing,
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: and you can just keep the word manipulation in your mind,
• 18:47
  Speaker 6: and it explains everything he does and says.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, I want you to see Something that, oh, good gravy.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: He needs support outside the house after he murdered his wife. Oh,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: my goodness, he's getting cold. Let's give him a bank key.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: It never ends with this guy.
• 19:08
  Speaker 7: Oh, my.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, dear Lord, as Medea would say. Oh, dear Lord.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Listen to this.
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: I'm upset.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Can you sit down?
• 19:19
  Speaker 7: No.
• 19:20
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Is she gone?
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Look at me.
• 19:23
  Speaker 10: Take a breath.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Look at me. I need you to breathe, okay? What
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: do I do with my daughters?
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: What do I do with my daughters?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Right now, I need you to breathe, okay?
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: Do you have any family that you can call?
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, where's your phone at?
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: Is she gone?
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she's gone.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: You killed her. You shot her twice in the head.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Look at the action. Let's roll that on mute, please.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: What do I do with my daughters? You figure out
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: a visitation schedule and just hope and pray to God
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: that they want to see you. You lie in sack
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: of poop. Okay, you know what I noticed? How clean
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: and perfect this home is. This woman devoted herself, Ashley,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: to her family, to her church, to her home. Look
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: at this place. She did all that. They go, oh,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: do you need to sit down? No, I'm busy kneeling
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: during my Oscar performance. To Tom Green joining us, former
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Chief Deputy Washoe County Sheriff's Homicide Detective, Cold Case Squad, fraud,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: you name it. He is now the owner of Nevada
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Investigative Services. I mean, this guy reeked from the first moment.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: The only thing he could do now, if he wants
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: a lighter sentence, is rat out the monkey sex mistress
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: in the hopes that he'll get an order modification. Tom Green,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: what jumped out at you? Because you heard Kessler already
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: tuning up for the appeal that is coming. He is
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: declaring he's innocent. Notice he said that. when he didn't
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: have to be subjected to cross-examination, O-H-E-L-L-N-O, he elocuted at sentencing, spoke,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: fancy word for speak, he spoke at sentencing when nobody's
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: going to cross-examine him. His lawyers looked like they were
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: going to fall over. That said, Tom, could you please
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: school Randy Kessler?
• 21:29
  Speaker 7: Help him out.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Now, I'm not saying Randy Kessler doesn't know, because he's
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: a great lawyer, he wins a lot of cases, but
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: let's just jog his memory about why we know the
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: american idol star killed his wife the star that is
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: now saying i didn't do it why.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: Well look man so you got street cops that rarely
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: respond to crimes like this in that town we know
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: it's a sleepy little community those initial responders knew something
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: wasn't right do you see them running around checking the
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: perimeter of Looking for this claimed intruder that fled on
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: foot afterwards? No.
• 22:09
  Speaker 8: What kind of intruder doesn't come with their own weapon?
• 22:14
  Speaker 8: What kind of an intruder walks in and somehow silently
• 22:17
  Speaker 8: kills just the wife while the husband and daughters are
• 22:22
  Speaker 8: supposedly asleep?
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: And yet, what does his Apple Watch show? He's not sleeping.
• 22:26
  Speaker 8: He's up wandering around the house. I wouldn't be surprised
• 22:29
  Speaker 8: if they end up finding the gun eventually, Nancy. somewhere
• 22:31
  Speaker 8: in the vicinity of that home.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Guys, he's absolutely right. They did not cordon off the area.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I guess they knew at the very get-go. Okay, joining
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: me now, very special guest. It is the lawyer for,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: as I have called her, the monkey sex mistress. This
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: is a great lawyer, and he has somehow pulled off
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: the unimaginable Because so far, Aaliyah Botner has not been charged.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: She was a witness, but she has not been charged.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: To Shannon Hill, who is Aaliyah Botner?
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: Nancy, I know that you like to call her the
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: monkey sex mistress. I like to call her the Chipotle
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: mistress because that is where they were having their alleged affair. Actually,
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: it's not alleged anymore.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Hold on, little girl. Wait a minute. Maybe they had
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a veggie burrito all organic at Chipotle. But that is
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: not where they were doing the dirty.
• 23:36
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Where did that go down? Every nook and cranny in town?
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: Nancy, Aaliyah Botner took the stand as a witness. And
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: she said that sometimes they would have their intimate moments
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: in the car of Caleb's car in the parking lot
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: of Chipotle.
• 23:54
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Please stop. My ears are bleeding. Jackie, please give me
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: gauze for my ears. Kessler, he's just class all the way,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: ain't he? In the parking lot at Chipotle.
• 24:08
  Speaker 10: You want me to defend his class? That's not my job.
• 24:11
  Speaker 10: I'm not about to, you know, whether you have class
• 24:14
  Speaker 10: or not.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Look around, friend. You're not in the courtroom. You're on
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. You're defending this guy. Did you just hear that?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: It was at Chipotle, in the parking lot.
• 24:23
  Speaker 10: Yeah, but I'm going to maintain my class too. And
• 24:25
  Speaker 10: I'm not here to defend his class. I'm here to
• 24:27
  Speaker 10: defend the facts and to argue the law. But whether
• 24:30
  Speaker 10: someone's classy or not, to me, that's not the issue.
• 24:32
  Speaker 10: The issue is, is there evidence that can prove beyond
• 24:35
  Speaker 10: a reasonable doubt that he did it? That's the issue
• 24:36
  Speaker 10: for the jury.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Is he class?
• 24:40
  Speaker 10: Is he classless? Yes.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Okay. Randy Kessler, please correct his bio. Gentleman lawyer. Gentleman
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: lawyer that defends alleged murderers, rapists, child molesters, drug lords, arsonists, etc. Okay.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Gentleman lawyer will not discuss the monkey sex Caleb Flynn
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: was having in the parking lot of Chipotle. But you
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: know what? This is a yes-no, Kessler. I know that's
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: never going to happen. But isn't it true the jury
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: is the sole judge of credibility? Isn't that true?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Sure. If it's a jury trial.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'm going to take that as a yes. So
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I'm supposed to believe this guy... the one sniveling and
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: snotting in the courtroom that has sex with a much
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: younger woman in the parking lot of Chipotle over the investigators.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: So see, to me, every detail, whether it's the fact
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: that she is shot two times in the back of
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the head or he lures a young church worker into
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: his boudoir in his car at Chipotle, it all comes
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: together when I'm deciding credibility. And I'm telling you, if
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: he could get it on in the parking lot of
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Chipotle and come home to his wife and children. You
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: know what, Kessler? Here's another thing I admire about you.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: You do not only criminal defense work, but you do
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: domestic relations. As a matter of fact, you're a law
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: school professor at Emory, not Shabby, former ABA family law
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: section chair. That's the American Bar Association and author of Divorce,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Protect Yourself, Your Kids and Your Future. That's why I
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: have you tonight. Because this is how people get killed.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And this is a perfect example. When you, a lawyer,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: get in the middle of a dogfight that is domestic relations,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: you'll get shot. It's, I think, safer to represent a doper,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: a drug lord, than it is to stick your hand
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a custody fight or a domestic dispute.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Because they will shoot you. They will drive right by
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: your house and look in the picture window and boom,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: you're dead. You're just walking by on your way to
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: the fridge. It's over. That's how heated these domestic, contentious
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: domestic incidents become in court. And you want to tell
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: me her parents aren't going out of their mind with
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: him having sex at Chipotle's parking lot with this girl?
• 27:08
  Speaker 10: I agree 100%. That's why in family law, We have
• 27:13
  Speaker 10: the ability to mediate and the ability to keep people
• 27:15
  Speaker 10: out of court. And that is our goal, right? Court
• 27:18
  Speaker 10: means everybody's lost. If you can't bring settlement, it means
• 27:21
  Speaker 10: somebody is the problem. It may be both sides, maybe
• 27:23
  Speaker 10: both lawyers, but good lawyers will try. And you will
• 27:26
  Speaker 10: see that probably 90% of our cases are resolved out
• 27:29
  Speaker 10: of court. We're trial lawyers. We go to court. We
• 27:31
  Speaker 10: like going to court. We're happy to go to court.
• 27:33
  Speaker 10: But we know the best resolution is one resolved by
• 27:36
  Speaker 10: the parties. You don't have that luxury. You don't have
• 27:38
  Speaker 10: that choice in a criminal case like this.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: It's exposed.
• 27:41
  Speaker 10: Everything's coming out. Because for him to settle means he's
• 27:44
  Speaker 10: acknowledging that he's going to go to jail the rest
• 27:45
  Speaker 10: of his life. He didn't have a choice.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: He had to go to trial.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Okay. What do you think about this, Kessler? And I'd
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: like you to put it in a nutshell because I
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: want to get to our special guest. Not that you're
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: not very, very special. Nick Ganaris is joining us and
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: he is representing Aaliyah Botner, the quote, other woman. But
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I see his only real avenue of a new trial
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: or a lighter sentence, not a new trial. is if
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: he agrees to rat out the mistress, get her on
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: the hook. She didn't get immunity, as my understanding. She
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: did not get immunity, even though she testified. So if
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: he can rat her out and make her part of
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: the planning, he might get a sentence modification. That's the
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: only thing I see that's really practically viable for him.
• 28:34
  Speaker 10: Well, certainly, I want to hear from that lawyer, too,
• 28:35
  Speaker 10: because there's nothing in it for this guy, for Caleb,
• 28:37
  Speaker 10: to now defend the honor of his mistress. He's totally
• 28:40
  Speaker 10: got nothing left The what?
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: The honor.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Wait, what? That's long gone. That cow's out of the barn.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:50
  Speaker 10: He's got to do everything for himself. And at this point,
• 28:54
  Speaker 10: he's got only one choice. And that is to say,
• 28:56
  Speaker 10: you know, like you always say, some other dude, somebody
• 28:59
  Speaker 10: else did it.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: And it was her.
• 29:01
  Speaker 10: I don't see what other option he has to.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: Try to reduce the salary.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I see a whole new species emerging. It's a cross
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: between a weasel, which he is now. You heard Shannon Hill,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: his new nickname is the Toehead Weasel, because he's such
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: a liar. Now a rat. You know in Harry Potter
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: how the Gryffindor, I think it's part lion and it's
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: part eagle. I guess we've got a weasel. You've got
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: a rat weasel, if he's going to rat out his mistress. Okay,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I can come up with those names all night long,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: but let me get to Nick. Joining us right now,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: in addition to Randy Kessler, who's a veteran defense attorney,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: a very famed defense attorney throughout the Southeast and beyond,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Nick Ganaris is with us, and he has taken on
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the task of representing the, I'm not even going to
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: say alleged mistress because she admitted to it. Nick, you've
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: won a lot of cases. You have a great reputation.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you, how did Ms. Botner end up
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: speaking to law enforcement?
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Pretty soon afterwards.
• 30:04
  Speaker 11: I don't know exactly how many days, but after a
• 30:09
  Speaker 11: little while, they reached out to her. I think they
• 30:12
  Speaker 11: had information that she might be involved with Caleb Flynn.
• 30:18
  Speaker 11: And they called her in kind of on one of those, hey,
• 30:20
  Speaker 11: we want to talk to you, come on in.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: And that's what they did.
• 30:24
  Speaker 11: And they spoke with her for some time You know,
• 30:27
  Speaker 11: and it came out at the trial that her initial
• 30:32
  Speaker 11: interview with them, she was not completely forthcoming. She minimized
• 30:38
  Speaker 11: and it took a little while during that first interview
• 30:43
  Speaker 11: where she finally came around to opening up more and
• 30:46
  Speaker 11: becoming a little clearer. And I think the reason for
• 30:50
  Speaker 11: that and what came out at the trial was, you know,
• 30:54
  Speaker 11: she was having a, a, a, an affair with a
• 30:57
  Speaker 11: married man for quite some time. And in this community, uh,
• 31:02
  Speaker 11: in the church community that she's in, I mean, this is, this.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Is a major no, no.
• 31:06
  Speaker 11: So her minimizing and her, uh, not being completely truthful
• 31:12
  Speaker 11: at that time, I think was, was based really on
• 31:15
  Speaker 11: kind of protecting herself saying, wait a minute, if there's
• 31:18
  Speaker 11: a way that I can help, but not expose all
• 31:21
  Speaker 11: of my secrets.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to do that. And, um, They figured that out.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: They knew that going in.
• 31:28
  Speaker 11: And so they pressed her on that during that first meeting.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Nick, Gunnera's with us tonight representing the so-called other woman.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: It's not really so-called because she admitted to her sex
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: affair with the American Idol star. I understand that she, now,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: as she's dead, but yet your client says she was
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: manipulated and.
• 31:54
  Speaker 11: You know, I would hate to say she felt like
• 31:56
  Speaker 11: she was manipulated. And the reason that I say that
• 32:00
  Speaker 11: is one of the things that she's done consistently, and
• 32:05
  Speaker 11: especially at the trial, is accept responsibility. So she's accepted
• 32:10
  Speaker 11: responsibility for her actions. I think a better way to
• 32:14
  Speaker 11: put that is, was she manipulated? Of course, as I
• 32:18
  Speaker 11: look at it, I see it. I don't think that
• 32:21
  Speaker 11: she would be using that as, an excuse for her behavior.
• 32:26
  Speaker 11: She owns that. But I would agree that this is
• 32:30
  Speaker 11: a guy who, to use this phrase, which is have
• 32:35
  Speaker 11: your cake and eat it too. On one hand, he's
• 32:38
  Speaker 11: got this young, attractive girlfriend. On the other hand, he's
• 32:42
  Speaker 11: got this wonderful wife with kids. And don't forget, a
• 32:46
  Speaker 11: great lifestyle. He's working For her family. So financially, he said,
• 32:51
  Speaker 11: this guy's got both things going. And so when you
• 32:56
  Speaker 11: say manipulated, I think that he liked how it was, right?
• 33:02
  Speaker 11: And so when he had that ability, sure, he's keeping
• 33:06
  Speaker 11: her on the line and saying certain things, which I
• 33:08
  Speaker 11: don't believe were true about his wife, but he was
• 33:10
  Speaker 11: saying them to her, and you're right, to work to
• 33:14
  Speaker 11: manipulate her in this relationship.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I can't really... Get past the text that your client wrote,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: wishing that she was dead. And then, poof, she ends
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: up dead. And speaking of texts, what do you, kill her.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I hate her ever-living guts. 107,000 plus texts, Nick? 107,000
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: plus texts of that ilk?
• 33:48
  Speaker 11: Yeah, so I would say there's two things that I'd
• 33:51
  Speaker 11: like to kind of talk about as that.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: You know, Paul Watkins, the prosecutor.
• 33:56
  Speaker 11: Asked my client, he said, you know, there's 107,000 text messages.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: And remember, that's just over the course of a year.
• 34:05
  Speaker 11: And he brought out the statistic, that's 300 a day.
• 34:10
  Speaker 11: And he asked my client, how do you get anything done?
• 34:14
  Speaker 11: And she said, I don't know. So when I think
• 34:16
  Speaker 11: about that, and when you bring up the word immaturity
• 34:20
  Speaker 11: and the like, here are these two folks, again, this
• 34:23
  Speaker 11: young lady and this grown man with a family, and
• 34:27
  Speaker 11: they're engaged all day long in this communication.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: No relationship is like that.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, I understand, Nick. I understand. But have you considered
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: the possibility that Ms. Botner could face criminal charges?
• 34:41
  Speaker 11: Yeah, so that's a question that I think a lot
• 34:44
  Speaker 11: of people have have asked. And here's what I would say.
• 34:50
  Speaker 11: I'm a defense attorney. We met with investigators. We reviewed
• 34:55
  Speaker 11: the evidence, we being the defense. The state viewed the evidence.
• 35:01
  Speaker 11: They did not believe that there was criminal culpability on
• 35:06
  Speaker 11: her part.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: That's why she was not indicted.
• 35:09
  Speaker 11: You mentioned that this was a case that was super fast.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: But guess what?
• 35:15
  Speaker 11: The jury came back. They convicted him. We know who
• 35:19
  Speaker 11: killed her. The case is over. They've got the guilty person.
• 35:22
  Speaker 11: So if they were going to charge her, she would
• 35:26
  Speaker 11: not have been in there testifying.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: She would have been a co-defendant in the case.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: So what that means is there's no immunity deal in
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: place for Aaliyah Botner, the mistress. So Randy Kessler says,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: You've seen a few of the texts, but there are many,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: many more where Botner refers to Ashley as the d * * *.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: We have to kill her. I want her dead. I
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: want you to myself. Why in the world she wants
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Caleb Flynn to herself, I do not know. But that said,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: we have to get rid of d * * *.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I need you. You're my everything. Oh, dear gravy. Do
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: you see a potential sentence modification in exchange for Caleb
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Flynn's testimony against the mistress.
• 36:15
  Speaker 10: I think it's possible. And, you know, you got to
• 36:16
  Speaker 10: talk to the family, see if they want to prosecute.
• 36:18
  Speaker 10: I think there's a civil case for sure. We see
• 36:20
  Speaker 10: all these cases with AI encouraging suicide where the burden's
• 36:24
  Speaker 10: much lower in a civil case. So I think there's
• 36:25
  Speaker 10: a civil case coming against her, but a criminal case,
• 36:28
  Speaker 10: I think Caleb is going to certainly explore it and say, Hey,
• 36:31
  Speaker 10: you know, what do you need me to say? I mean,
• 36:33
  Speaker 10: I certainly see the possibility of that. And I think
• 36:36
  Speaker 10: you're right on.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Target, Nancy.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: You know, I hate to give them any ideas, but
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: he is the one recanting, stating he didn't do it.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: That's going to be the baseline for a motion for
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: new trial on insufficient evidence. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, two questions.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Why do defendants have to drag God and their children?
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're just using them, and I resent that.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Using our Lord and children as pawns to be manipulated
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: as an excuse for a light sentence. And how do
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: they cry on demand? I mean, now, wait a minute.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Shannon Hill, didn't you say he never actually cried? I
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: saw a lot of snot, I thought.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: I definitely see some snot as well, Nancy, but I
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: did not see any tears come from that man's eyes.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: He reminds me of the emoji that it's like the
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: sad scrunching face, but there's just zero tears coming from
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: those fake, fake cries.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: So those are the two questions, Dr. Bethany. Why drag
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: God into it and your children as an excuse? Oh,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: good gravy. You're just going to keep showing me him,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: aren't you? Okay, you know what? Go ahead. Why are
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: they dragged in? And how do you learn to cry
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: on demand?
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, God is about redemption. That we sinners
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: are granted forgiveness and we go to be with the
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: Lord at some point. So in invoking God, the Lord...
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: He's saying to the judge, if God can forgive, why
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: can't you? It's again, it's another manipulative attempt. He's also
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: saying we all, I abide by the same moral code
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: as everybody else in this courtroom. We're all God fearing.
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: So he wants them to suspend disbelief in invoking his children.
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: He's also talking about the negative impact that his absence
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: will have on his daughters. So he's saying, there will
• 38:37
  Speaker 6: be a ripple effect if you sentence me harshly. So again,
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: this is one more manipulation. In terms of crying on cue, Nancy,
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: he cries as he's about to face sentencing. So, you know,
• 38:50
  Speaker 6: I think defendants do cry when something bad happens to them,
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: not when something bad happens to other people. And we
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: can see it. Let's talk about the car sex. He
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: wasn't crying then. In fact, I believe he had sex
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: in a car to try to recreate youth, romanticism, adventure.
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: I'm just a reckless 18-year-old.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Who said that was romantic? Who wants to sit on
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: a stick shift?
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, in his own mind, but to be honest
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: with you, I'm not sure that I really want to
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: know what's going on in that scrambled brain of his,
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: but I believe he thought it was romantic.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: And correct me if I'm wrong, Shannon and Dave, he
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: takes his wife on a 15th anniversary cruise. I'm sure
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: that her parents paid for it.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: I'd rather go to Dairy Queen and have a, what
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: are they called?
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: A flurry?
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: No.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: A blizzard.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: A blizzard. I'd rather go to DQ and have a
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: blizzard and have my husband pay for it than go
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: on a European cruise and have my parents pay for it.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: But anyway, 15th anniversary. Why am I not seeing either
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Bethany or Kessler? You know what? Let's look at Kessler.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: 15th anniversary cruise, Kessler. A romantic cruise, I'm sure, paid
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: for by her parents. And that's when Ashley... The victim
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: finds all of the monkey sex texts where she's called
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: a douche, where they talk about how much they hate her,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: where they talk about him leaving her on her 15th
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: anniversary celebration. And you say, that doesn't matter. It does matter.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: It's all about credibility. I wouldn't believe one thing this
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: guy says.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:46
  Speaker 10: I mean, I don't know what you want me to
• 40:47
  Speaker 10: say to that. It's poetic symmetry. That's, you know, it's
• 40:49
  Speaker 10: a perfect time to find out. It's when the relationship
• 40:51
  Speaker 10: should have ended. There should have been a divorce.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Did you actually just say poetic symmetry?
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:57
  Speaker 10: That she found out on the 15th anniversary.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:59
  Speaker 10: I mean, she finds that out. People file for divorce
• 41:04
  Speaker 10: on anniversaries. We see things like that. You can call
• 41:06
  Speaker 10: it godsent. You can call it just meant to be,
• 41:08
  Speaker 10: but yeah, maybe this was destiny that she was supposed
• 41:11
  Speaker 10: to find out. And unfortunately she, Nobody acted on it.
• 41:14
  Speaker 10: They didn't get divorced. They didn't get separated. I wish
• 41:16
  Speaker 10: they had. I wish they had.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. So it's her fault for not seeking divorce.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I was waiting for you to get to the point
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: where you find a way to blame her.
• 41:27
  Speaker 10: No, I did not say it's her fault. I wish
• 41:29
  Speaker 10: they'd gotten divorced.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: If only they had gotten divorced then, this would never
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: have happened. And you can just spin that out. I
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: see it coming. You know what, Kessler? I know why
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: you win so many cases. Just like Nick Ganaris. Nick Ganaris,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: be ready. for what may come down the pike. In
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: other words, Caleb Flynn's going to spend about a week
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: in the pen, and he's going to start singing on
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: your client. Will it work? Don't know, but that may
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: be his only avenue now for an order sentence modification.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: It's already started, so brace yourself. We're going to have
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: to listen to those songs all over again. Tonight, we
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: ask for your prayers for Ashley's family Not just her parents,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: who you saw in the courtroom enduring all of this,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: but for the little girls left behind with just memories
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: of their mother. We remember an American hero, police officer
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Brian Pierce, Brooklyn PD, Illinois, just 24 years old, killed
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: in the line of duty, leaving behind brokenhearted parents, Brian
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: and Tammy. American hero, police officer Brian Pierce. Thank you
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: to our guests, but especially to you for being with
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: us tonight. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. But I'll
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: see you tomorrow night, God willing. And until then, good night, friends.