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Ron Thurston: The Bold Power of Retail · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on both journeys and made a positive impact with it.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Every week will be someone who is technically important.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to hearing those stories, they also learn about their old code mindset that they use to make things.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they face challenges, council, they persisted, and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: These impactful stories will leave you fully motivated and inspired to pursue their own bold stories.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be created.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the bold lounge.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Today I have Ron Thurston, who is the best-selling author of Retail Pride, the Guide to Celebrating an Accidental Career, and a longtime retail executive.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Ron.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm happy to be in the lounge coming to you live from my airstream parked in an RV park in uh West Glacier, Montana.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: The idea of a lounge sounds kind of intriguing right now.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll have to talk about the Airstream too.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be a lot of fun.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love for people to be introduced to you.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So would you mind introducing yourself?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, I'd love to.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: So my name's Ron Thurston.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: I am, as you said, longtime retail executive.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's how you know my I define really myself within the industry as someone that has done every role.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I have spent 30 plus years, closer to 40 at this point, working in retail.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that is from sales and stock and assistant manager multi-store roles, corporate visual merchandising in the last decade or so in vice president of store roles for brands like Intermix, Saint Laurent, based out of Paris.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: I helped start Bonobos as a men's brand.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I ran Tory Birch stores, I ran Apple stores.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love this business.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: I love everything about the retail industry.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of it came to a point where I just said I have to find a way to communicate with the larger population, which by the way, one out of four people in this country work in retail.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's an one of the biggest employers in the country, in the world.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And how do I communicate with this audience about how proud we are to work in it?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that the work is really hard.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of sacrifice.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wrote Retail Pride, The Guide to Celebrating Your Accidental Career, which was published in October of 2020.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing to do with the pandemic.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was still working full-time, leading intermix, and the book came out and it it really took off.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's in you've, I know you have it there on your desk, Lee, and it's easy to, it's an easy read.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yet the message about choosing pride in how we show up, and some maybe helpful hints is something that I think is is not often spoken about in our industry.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wanted to have this message, and it it has turned into now a tour for a year across the country called Retail in America.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm traveling for a year with some incredible sponsors like Spotify Advertising and UBIC and KWI that are helping me elevate this message around the power of working in retail.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny because it feels like that this stage of my career is in some ways the best part of it because I'm I'm not just leading a team.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: In many ways, I'm leading kind of a movement of a conversation, an idea around what it means to work in one of the biggest industries in the world that has not been given a lot of bright light for really for any time.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: But certainly the last decade, it's actually even worse.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people don't understand why you work in retail when the news would tell you that everyone's shopping online, which I would love to get into some facts because that's not actually true.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's that's a a little bit about me, but it's you know, I'm about halfway through the tour and it's been my greatest joy.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm so excited to jump into some of that.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the respect that also this profession receives, I don't think it receives the respect that it should.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm definitely wanting to get into bursting the bubble on the online and the challenges with that and the frustration with that.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, awesome.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So as you think about your life and the things that you've done to get to this point, which is it's it sounds like you're in a very sweet spot of like all the things that you've worked for, learned, and been able to do, and now they're coming together in a movement.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that word because that's bold in itself.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: How would you define bold for you?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: What is what does bold look like for Ron?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think bold for me has been making choices that other people didn't understand or didn't encourage me to do.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you sometimes stand alone and said, I know this is the right thing to do, and everyone else tells you that it's the wrong thing to do, and you choose to do it anyway.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that for me is something that I've decisioned numerous occasions.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I moved to New York City from LA at the age of 50 to start a new job with not a lot of no infrastructure of friends, no idea other than I have a job offer and I'm gonna have my New York City moment much later.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: And people are like, why are you moving to New York City?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like your life is in LA, and I wanted to do it anyway.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: When we chose to sell everything, by the way, met my husband within 90 days of moving to New York City, and that was eight years ago.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like this thing happened, I believe.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we make a bold move, other things fall into place.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: They've just been waiting for you, right?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: They're waiting for you, and the the decision to go on this tour, we sold everything we owned and bought a bought an airstream and just living, you know, camping for a year, people think we're insane.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, now six months in and they're seeing the pictures, and we're parked here in Montana.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh most people now are like, oh my gosh, like I wish we could do that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: But initially, people are like, wait, you're doing what?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: We both had careers, very big careers in New York City to go and do this tour.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I think no matter what other people say, being bold in your confidence to do what you know is right and what you think will have the most positive impact is how I've often lived my life.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm proud of that.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of bold moments in there, in the sense of the cross-country move after probably having a very established community and friends and roles, and then really starting something new without anything, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was incredibly bold.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: But like you said, within a few weeks you met your husband, which if you wouldn't have done that, imagine how your life would be, you know, without him.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So and then the tour itself, I can see and I can hear people going, Oh, you're crazy, that's insane.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: How can you do that?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And now they're probably very envious.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes that comes people truly don't actually aren't project, they're projecting maybe their fears or maybe something that they couldn't imagine themselves doing, so that they then name you as that, and not harshly or to be mean, because I think inherently people are good, but people fear things, and so sometimes that fear gets in the way of actually opportunity, and that's what I hope to do in some of our conversations is just to be able to let people know like, look what happens, look you know, and it's not all roses, and I'm sure there's bumps and bruises and a flat tire somewhere along the way, literally and figuratively, but it's just it's worth it, right?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So have you would you say you've been bold your whole life?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Can you remember like before 50, like a bold moment or something that like you knew you were doing something that it wasn't expected of others, but you were gonna do it anyway?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I do, and I I would likely say they're often career move related.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know, as as someone who grew up in Northern California in Lake Tahoe, and I came from a family of construction, and so my grandfather had a large construction company.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Every single person in my family worked for my grandfather, he was the CEO.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: We built all the Safeway stores on the West Coast, and so this idea of first grandson working in the construction business was kind of a given.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I didn't really have a passion for you know leading construction, but I had a passion for leadership because I watched him like arrive on a construction site and meet all of these people who were doing construction, hundreds of them.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the way that he led those people through you know deadlines and timing and this kind of focus to do a great job and work, to be proud of what you do, was inherently who he was.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I learned a lot about leadership, but I wanted to work somewhere in probably fashion at the time.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they just sound it's very intriguing when you come from small town and you think, oh, I want to be a work in the fashion industry, but I didn't know if it was buying, I didn't know if it was fashion design, I didn't know if it was retail.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I actually studied design, but ended up probably six, eight years into my career on the retail side and have never left.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And part of that is majority is people.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: But as such a student of the industry, the bold moves I made were often to join brands that were maybe earlier in their career or in in their life cycle or that were not as well known or not as powerful.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll give you an example.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: When I left, I was running Apple stores.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: I ran, I was the mark, I think my title was market leader for all the stores in Houston.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think there were eight stores in Houston.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And this was 2008.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So this was iPhone 2.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I launched the, you know, this is when you waited in line for like three days to buy an iPhone.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think you still do.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you do in some cases.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we launched the iPad, I launched MacBook Air, like there were some big product launches, and they were incredible leaders and to this day have some of the best in class leadership training and development that happens.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I said, you know what, I I appreciate this and I'm really happy at what I'm doing.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: But then I left to join a much smaller brand at the time, which was Torrey Birch, to help launch the brand.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I love this idea of not just settling for maybe what's easier or where you have more resources or where you have more infrastructure.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: I actually like the small, in some ways, startup energy that it that bold moves require.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't don't just be comfortable, like go do something harder.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and that was that was bold at the time because people were like, no one ever leaves Apple.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why are you leaving Apple?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's true, but I was very confident and happy with my choices.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then same, like that job led into moving to New York, which led into other bold moves in in careers.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I I wouldn't change any of it, to be honest.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Three things you talk about in your book, which I think are probably going to be, you know, in different pieces and parts of our conversation today are empathy, curiosity, and focus.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like as you were talking, I'm like, there's the curiosity piece, you know, like what's Tori Birch?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: How can I help?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: What can we do?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the energy around new and really not understanding it fully, like there's something well, very entrepreneurial about that, and you almost get sucked into it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, it's almost like a magnet.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I would describe it.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I don't understand it fully, so I actually want to do it more than if I actually understood it A through Z, because to me that's maybe nice, but it's not exciting, or it doesn't actually bring me joy, or it doesn't, and I think sometimes people get into their careers and they're they are in the A through Z, I know it back to front, and then they don't really find a lot of joy, and there isn't any variation in their day.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the part I think that maybe people don't understand about retail.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: We we talked briefly, and I will not say I have like any super long experience in retail, but I worked at the gap uh while I was in college, and it was wonderful in the sense because it actually helped me with my confidence.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a pretty confident person, but I'm a little introverted every now and then.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I really don't like to talk to strangers and I really don't want to walk up to someone I don't know.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it like it, you know, I was on the floor and you know, did the normal stuff that you know a college kid would do, and but it helped me get out of my shell a bit and like be able to walk up to someone and engage in a conversation and find commonality.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like I do that as a big person now, you know, very easily.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it has is meant a lot to me because I can connect with people and that's what it's all about.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you know, just thinking of that little piece of what I learned in that time and things I would have never done on my own, it's led to me being able to do these bigger things.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So just when you think about the curiosity you had going from Apple, and I can imagine that is a bold move because at that time, Tory Birch is not the Tory Birch of of today.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I can imagine people thought you were crazy there as well as you moved into that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So when they did.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about what I just described in retail, do you feel it's misunderstood?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that people really don't understand its power and and don't give it the respect that it should have?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I really do, Lee, for for many reasons.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll give you a few of them.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: So one one is the reality that the majority of retail work, you know, is kind of entry-level.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: It is at the lower end of the scale incompetent.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it is dominated by part-time work.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: That is the majority of the industry.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and the industry wouldn't survive without that because when you think about you know, the largest employer in this country is Walmart.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: And Walmart is filled with part-time workers.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: While at the same time, Walmart is a brand that invests heavily in leadership training and development.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: They have just most recently announced this a program for recent college graduates to guarantee them to become a store manager of a Walmart store within two to four years at a base of$180,000 because they realize that they don't have the infrastructure built for enough people to grow at the scale at the rate that they're growing.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that part-time work inherently has this perception of it being temporary.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm sure you're going to do something else and you'll become full-time.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Retail is also an industry that doesn't require a certain education.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: You can walk in and be highly successful, like you were as a young woman, or how I was.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have big college degrees, yet I was very successful.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's this perception of if you have this specific education, you should have a job in an office and you should work in a cubicle, and you should do this work or a title that is perceived as more important.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say third is you know, it's a choice of working in service to others.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: And you then every day are dealing with the general public who may or may not be kind, and you are in service to others and service jobs, whether you're in hospitality, restaurant, retail, anything that's service related, there's this unfortunate perception that that's a step to doing something else.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's this battle.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you if you went to school and you had this degree, why aren't you using it?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you working in retail?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: As if it's not good enough.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that it's just something that in the hundreds of people that I've hired, thousands I've interviewed just on my tours around stores.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very common conversation of like, I never plan to do this.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Often that I meet people that have degrees in other industries, but they love this business.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: And they love it because they love to serve and they love to serve others.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: And they, whether whatever brand they work for, they usually love the product that they're selling.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're passionate about whatever they're selling, and that the opportunities for growth in the industry are endless.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it's very easy to say, you know, I'm gonna start in a part-time sales role, and then I become in full-time, I become an assistant manager, I become a store manager, I can be move on to multi-store roles or move from storage to corporate, the jobs are unlimited.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that I think is also something we have to think about as you want to grow your career and and your compensation, is that I would say because it's so accidental that the journey to success is very self-motivated.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to then choose great brands, which is you know, when you asked me earlier, I'm always very curious about what all the other brands are doing.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: What are how are they, who's there, what are they doing, where are they putting in their resources?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And do I want to be part of that?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you think if your mindset is this was never what I wanted to do, this is accidental, this is temporary, and you feel kind of not good enough, not impacted in a positive way with your career, then you maybe won't choose bold moves or make smart choices or do a lot of research and be intentional about your career.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of finished the book with saying, you know, we have to stop referring to this industry as an accidental career, even though it's funny and it's common, we actually have to stop using that language because it diminishes our light.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to say, I intentionally wanted to work in retail.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to be here because of all the reasons that are important to you.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that it is in the words that we use.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's part of my message is let's be intentional about this, let's choose to be to be proud, let's bring others along, let's raise our voices about what it means to work in this industry.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: And my experience has shown that's really inspiring to people.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think the words are powerful that we use when we talk about who we are and what we do and how we help others and how we serve.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have a servant type of attitude.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I really feel like that's why I'm here is to help others.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and if I'm not doing that, then I'm probably not doing my job that I was sent here to do.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think no matter what you're doing, you're you are serving in some form or fashion.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, in the retail world and and in the restaurants and other service, hospitality, other service industries like that, it's a direct day-to-day.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are you are absolutely doing that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think people overarchingly feel the level of respect that they should.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it kind of fires me up every now and then, you know, because I've certainly walked into a store and someone says, How can I help you?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I usually say my response is I'm just looking, because I am usually it it's almost like therapy every now and then.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is like, okay, I'm really just like having a good time here, actually being able to go out and shop, which I can't stand to shop online because it's never the right size, it's it's probably lower quality.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: What I saw isn't what I get.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, so like I always prefer to go in a store versus shop for it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, although some of the stores obviously online, they have everything in the store, but it, you know, you can't try it on, you can't see what it looks like, and you know, seeing what's possible.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you know, you were talking about a few things there, like the sounds like unlimited opportunities that people may not be aware of within the retail industry.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Also, probably the speed that you can do something.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, going from you know, associate to manager within a two to four year time period and making a six-figure salary, that is no joke.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not something you do with an MBA, honestly.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta do your time, you gotta go through this, you gotta be an intern, you gotta go through fellowship, and then you know, just even some of the things that I've done, like that's not something that's accomplished until maybe year 10, you know, and that's that's actually after spending six to seven eight years in college.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's that's tremendous in the sense of just the opportunity.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to go back to what you said early on, which is one of the things that attracted you to this world intentionally was leadership.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you felt that there was opportunity to learn, to do tell me a little bit more about that in the sense of the leadership piece within retail.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's interesting because as I have been on this tour and outside of this is the first time I've never worked for a brand.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're work, when you're leading an organization within the kind of ecosystem of one company, you use that company as how you attach yourself to.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Success.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: So if you say, you know, I ran Saint Laurent for North and South America, one of the most important luxury brands in the world with this incredible history and all these stories.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's it's a brand that's magic, in my opinion.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so you attach your success or pride to the brand.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because I worked in luxury, therefore I'm more proud to work in the industry.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: And what I've discovered is when you're outside of the brand and you're speaking to people who work in it, they're often attaching people's names to their success.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's not because they worked a certain place, got them where they are.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's because they were surrounded by certain leaders.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so that it really has continued to inspire me to say we have a responsibility as anyone in a leadership role to listen and be curious and to be bold in giving other people their shot.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Find the magic in other people and give them opportunities to grow.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that is real leadership.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that you can direct people to do certain things or that people will follow you.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's very much about let me learn more about you.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: How can I help you?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have a I have a responsibility as a leader to support and develop everyone around me.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the people that I've met that have stories to tell about other people are always that story of, you know, I was inspired by this particular conversation I had, this leader that I had that saw something in me, this passion for the industry that I saw someone else have made me want to work in it.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think of you know, leadership is very much that today.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Don't think of it just as, oh, I wish I worked for this company because therefore I will be a better leader or more respected.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: You earn that respect through what you do for others.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a really special way to think again about our industry that is so self-taught in this same.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: You don't come in with an education that says you're going to be successful.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: You come in saying and needing to be surrounded by great people.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's part of the choice that you make when you join a brand.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when I said earlier, like I pay attention to who works for which company and what are they doing?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And what are they creating and do you want to be a part of that?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's the curiosity in our industry.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's believing in other people's magic, and I think also believing in your own.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's important.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Not, you know, it's certainly within retail, but um, I always like to take it back out to like everyone else who who's out there listening is like, you know, believing in what you believe in and having boldness to stand by it, even though someone else might think you're crazy or doesn't think it adds up, or you know, or possibly even they're fearful of making a change, so they're projecting it on you.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where that almost intentional pride comes in, too, is like I'm doing this because this is what I want to do and I like to do it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it gives me ability to work part-time and then have a family and take care of and be at the things that I want to be at, or it gives me the opportunity to move in different pieces of the organization.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the other big misunderstanding.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the other thing that you know, just from my own misunderstandings was that it's kind of like easy to do or easy to start up.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I have so much respect for that because it it's it's very strategic, it's very thoughtful, and like you said, paying attention to who's working where for which brands and even the newer ones, how how and what they're doing to start up today is so different than you know, even five years ago.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I think in retail you have to always be looking forward as much as looking at what's happening today.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have that back and forth perspective, which I always enjoy that type of thinking too.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Would you agree that in the sense of focus in retail, there's a specificity to where you're focused or how you're focused?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I think the focus is different every day.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I think no, I think it's not specific.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think every anyone that might be listening or that hasn't had this experience, that's a store manager, which is for me one of the most important, if not the most important role in retail, because a store manager, whatever title you want to call, general manager, store director, you have the responsibility of those four walls of that store.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And no matter what the company might be doing for you, what what's happening in those four walls is your entire responsibility.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: And usually responsibility for hiring, creating that culture in the store, the level of service, the visual merchandising, the operational efficiency.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a huge amount of responsibility.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that focus can change every day.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you might be, you know, I'm referencing just my own experience.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: You are coming in on Saturday morning and you're unlocking the front door and it's 8 a.m., the phone's ringing, someone's already called out for their shift, an unplanned visual merchandising change, a sale that just started.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: You have to change the signage, change the windows, maybe a Saturday delivery of shipping comes in.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're managing all these moving parts and your focus has to change.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: But 10 a.m.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: when the store opens, the focus then becomes the customer.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe that call out created another situation where you don't have enough people.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So then you need to jump and ring on the register.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I could could go on with like day in the life of a store manager, but that your focus has to be incredibly agile and your ability to move between tasks and priorities and coaching conversations and customer feedback, all of it, it's you have to be so highly skilled.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you're managing a very like emotional, you know, leadership service part of your brain, a very operations, task focused, you know, very often complex, you know, more task-related things.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's this wide range of skills that I think, again, underappreciated, yet at home.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: So here I am, Mr.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Storm on Saturday, and everyone at home is like, why are you working today?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you at the mall?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we want to do this, we want to go do this as a family.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: We want it, we want to, I want to go hang out with my friends on Saturday.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, Saturday is the I say it in the book, you know, it's the best day, it's the best day to work in retail.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yet everyone at home is giving you a hard time.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that there's this like emotion, all this emotion that you're managing, and you you meet different people and you're engaging with customers, and you're there's just this power in this work.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you go home and you're exhausted and you fall down on the couch, so tired, you've been on your feet all day, and people still say, Well, gosh, I wish you didn't have to work today, but yet you're so proud of what you accomplished.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: You maybe had a great day in sales, you had great customer experiences, you blew away all of your goals, and no one gives you credit when you get home.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's just something to that we have to be aware of for those of us in our in our friends and family group that often work in service and don't have a Monday through Friday.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they don't, there's no work from home in retail.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, no one's having a conversation about you know, hybrid work.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: They were there during the pandemic, they're there today.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's never hybrid work is not an option in service.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: So those conversations that they hear about people working in their corporate offices for a hybrid or that never come back to the office, yet we're always still in the store are is really hard for them to hear.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I I know that because I hear it kind of on the sidelines now.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's frustrating for them that their former kind of leaders and and corporate executives and people that were there to support retail are not back in the office.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's hard for them to hear.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, I don't have an opinion one way or the other, what a corporate office should do.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's their choice.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying be aware of how that makes other people feel when you have that conversation that don't have that choice.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that is it's it's an important part of what's happening in our world today.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know, the focus is definitely different every day and on different things.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I love how you just described kind of like just what one Saturday morning could be like, and then Sunday's gonna be different.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be interesting to take some folks who are like, you know, school executives and have them be a store manager for the day and see how much.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, they they couldn't they couldn't handle it.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, they couldn't handle it.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was just on the floor, like, you know, trying to sell flannels at the gap.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: So like I didn't do some of those those things, but I did early on see how much they had to manage.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this is pre-pandemic, but again, I'm so very thankful for the people who are in the store.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk briefly just about, you know, are more people shopping online versus in the stores?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think I don't think there's facts out there about that.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I shared, I will absolutely go to a store versus buy it online if I have the opportunity.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So what are the facts around that in the sense of you you're you're an expert?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are people really buying online versus the store?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'd I'd love this conversation because there's so there's so much news that needs to be kind of dismantled here.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: So pre-pandemic, we'll just say like this as a total industry, and that would be like all commerce done in this country at all levels, whether it's grocery, pharmacy, traditional retail, clothing, all of it, about 80% of all commerce done in this country is done in a store, in a brick and mortar store.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: 20% of all commerce was done online, and within that 20%, about 40% of that is Amazon.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: So Amazon is a gigantic chunk of the e-commerce business in this country.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: So during in 2020, total e-commerce jumped to say 35% of all commerce done in this country was done online.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Today, we are back almost exactly where we were pre-pandemic.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: The growth of e-commerce is back to where it was in 2019, and the store business has bounced back.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're still at somewhere between like 75 to 80 percent of all commerce is again done in a store.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: People came back, and it's just been reported recently from you know all the companies that track traffic and all mall traffic is back to 2019, just as of this summer.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Street traffic back to where it was.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: The just announced this week, there's been twice as many store openings this year as there were store closings.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: 4,000 new stores have opened in the US against about 2,000 closures.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: And often, you know, closures are real estate deals or lease expirations.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of reasons why brands close stores.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Some of it's strategic and some of it has just gone out of business.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: And we're at the highest number of retail establishments in the US than it than there ever has been.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's over a million active brick and mortar retail stores in this country, the highest number ever.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and the projections over the next five years take e-commerce up slightly every year.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right now it's actually declining.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and part of that is supply chain, a lot of reasons behind that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: But the projections are like increases in e-commerce, but more significant increases in brick and mortar to probably a 75-25 balance.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: So stores will always be the dominant player here, but we have to pay pay attention to brands like Amazon that take the bulk of e-commerce.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's just a reality, but it doesn't change the way that store business is operating in this country.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think some of the companies in e-commerce, their mission is to actually how do I say this?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's to take over the world versus actually to help people or to get the right things or have the highest quality.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I you know, there are things I've bought in an e-commerce world that just they're junk.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you get them, and if you're talking about clothes, like just give up for me, you know, I just that's not where I could go.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And even buying things online from brands is very difficult during the pandemic.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was buying from brands and then returning, like I'd buy four items and I'd keep one and send three back.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So like, yeah, so I I can't see it going down.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, the connection and also just being able to kind of be in the environment and kind of see it and some of the creativity and some of the things within the stores, I think is is like I said, I talked about retail therapy for me and just like kind of getting out there.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just what you buy, it's kind of just being in that vibe in the zone and also seeing the new things that are out there.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I have a different point of view, I think now living out in nature, living outside, about you know, every decision that we make about shopping online has an impact on our environment.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Transportation costs, you know, that Americans throw away on average 80 pounds of clothing every year.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, some of that is because people order online, don't like it, maybe wear it once.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's junk, as you said, which is really common, and it ends up in in a landfill.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: So there are actually far even beyond encouraging people to go to stores.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: There are enormous environmental impacts by ordering online.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're right, then that had to come to your home, then you had to go to the store to return it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: The store then has to ship it back somewhere.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: So all this transportation energy, um, all this impact on the environment, the potential landfill impact.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And there's some part of in the my journey, which is maybe a side benefit, is I don't have a physical address.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't ordered on a website in six months.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I lived in New York City and like lived by this stuff.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you like the idea of taking yourself off, like wean yourself off of Amazon Prime, unsubscribe and shop local and only buy everything you need locally and and support the community or the families that own those businesses.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: It it can be hard.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's times where like, oh, I wish I could just find that on Prime somewhere.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: But that that's a choice, that's a bold choice to say I'm no longer going to shop online.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Ever.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Some of it's our instant gratification mindset that we have like, oh, I can have this tomorrow.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you could actually have it tomorrow, you could have it tonight if you actually drive to the store or you know, go down and talk to that person.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think I if you've heard some of my podcasts, my daughter is uh avid book reader and loves books and the power of books, and she will not buy a book from Amazon, like she will find a local person.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when we go to any city, we find the bookstores to go to or the local restaurants or you know, the smaller boutique shops because it's such a different experience, and so I think what you just described, I think helps people understand kind of the power of their decisions too, and the impact of those.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Our time has gone really fast, and I just peeked.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: It has so like I need to come to Montana and we can take a hike so we can keep talking.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to talk real quick around the tour, and I want to make sure folks below you'll see the information around the book, uh, the podcast that you're actually doing live from your airstream and retailpride.com to go to the different events that Ron has and that you could actually meet him in person.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Please do pick up the book, which the link is below as well.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: But one last question of all the travels that you've had so far, and you're not done, what is the most unexpected learning that you've had?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would say the beauty of our national parks in this country.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you have this perception of like, oh, I'm sure they're pretty, or I'm sure it's nice, or like, yeah, I went there once when I was a kid, which was true of Yellowstone.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: I I would just say when you live outside, you have an appreciation for nature and our national parks here in West Glacier.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: We were right by the entrance and um have been going in there and hiking and enjoying just the it's so beautiful.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you want to protect it.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like the water is clear and the sky is blue and everything's so green, and and the animals are running free.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: They're deer, you know, here in front of our airstream just the other morning, 5 a.m., a whole family of deer just walking around.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you want to protect that.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's been for me such a highlight.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the beauty of this country that you don't appreciate when you're flying over it all the time.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: So protect it and do your protect it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no matter where you are.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because we all choose our impact.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm mine has become this kind of side mission of uh is almost unexpected because I didn't I thought it was going to be nice, but it it is far exceeded my expectations.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so go out and experience it too.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the other thing.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Life short, like get out there and soak it up.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Go to places you haven't ever been before.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's iPhone picture doesn't capture the Grand Canyon, right?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I that's I've been to the Grand Canyon.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you take a picture, like, oh, that so does not capture it.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or we take a picture of the full moon.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, nope, that does not capture it.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed our conversation.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Please do check out retailpride.com and learn more about Ron and his mission and movements.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Lee.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was a pleasure.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important stories.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others to share the journey of those with a bold setup.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey of the next.