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Roman Mothers Know Best: Agrippina the Younger · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is season seven, episode 12.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: We're almost done with the season here.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: We're getting close.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're getting very close.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Two and a half more episodes, kind of three, because our last one is two parts.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Two parts.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Lucky number 13.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, insider info, we do film that last episode on the same night.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Don't tell them that.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: They know now because of the YouTube.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: They see our outfits, they know it's the same.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's different.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: We just wear the same outfits.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: We pause a lot.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: We'll like take a pause and we'll go like eat and chit-chat and then we come back to the second part of the episode.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Those are long nights when we do the five the finale.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we used to be we used to be younger.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Seven years ago.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Seven years ago.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: That didn't seem so hard.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're doing great though because we actually are being quite thorough.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we did something amazing.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to give you a follow-up from the previous episode.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: We actually remembered something that we said that we were going to look into and where we actually looked into it.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how hard it is to remember those things.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll always listen to our episodes as they come out.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I try to actively take notes of like if we say something, like, oh, we're going to follow up with that next episode.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: All the things we don't know.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: We are like, oh, and what's that?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: We'll look at a level check.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, listeners tell us kind of thing.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And people do.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: People sometimes people message like, eh, you said this one thing and like this is what you needed or whatever.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: All good.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I literally write notes like in my phone, like, oh, for next time, we'll say this.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I never, ever, ever do it.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think when we talked about the Carmelite nuns and the canonization, I didn't remember after that one.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I trust you to do it.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even bother.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I just assume you're going to.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then you remind me.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't like that kind of responsibility.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to like chat.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this one, this time helped because I we just another insider fact.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: We just released the last episode yesterday.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: We can't keep talking about our insights.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: So wonky right now.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's going on.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I blame your surgery.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: I blame the timeline months ago.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're still struggling.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: But we're we're we're back to on track, but we are.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: We it was funny because we recorded the last episode like two weeks ago.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then I procrastinated on editing it until the day it came out or the night like I did it the night before.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting editing something from like two weeks ago because I feel like a totally different person.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, wow.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're so different now.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, wow, who was I back then?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: When I was young and innocent.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: And because it was fresh on my mind, because I just finished listening to the episode.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Then I can remind you, like, oh yeah, we said we were gonna look into something.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I so I have a little bit of a we remember what it was after all.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, okay, get to it, girls.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you're telling you know something and you don't know what it is.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna tell you.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, okay.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we but the takeaway was from last episode, because our last episode was um on Petronilia de Mies, and it was the Irish witch burning.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about, like at the end of our episode, we were like, why do was burning the go-to execution method for witches?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, did it symbolize like going back to hell, or what, you know, what kind of, I guess, just decision-making process is that for people that decide the punishment.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we did look it up, and again, this is just very shallow research.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't go deep into this, but so you know, if you do your own online search, it will tell you the reason is because the church saw um burning as like the ultimate, like fire itself as the ultimate purifying element.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were so deep, dark, uh, you know, into the occult, uh, this was a way to purify your soul.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they believed that heresy and like I guess dark magic was tied to your physical being.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they had to completely demolish your physical being.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like they thought if you were just drowned, or if you were just, you know, beheaded, um, that your body was still around, right?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So potentially you could, I don't know, reassemble yourself or come back from the dead or something.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Completely dissolve body ashes.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So step one, purification.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Step two, complete get rid of the evidence, disintegration.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah, so that's that's helpful.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I had more to do with like hell symbolism, but I guess not.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I thought so too for some reason, but maybe like we just kind of made that up in our own heads.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, you know, choose your own adventure.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, speaking of choose your own adventure, we always talk about this like what?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Nostalgia from old kids' books when you would choose your own adventure, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked about that recently.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Really quick, I hate those books.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Did you like those books as a kid?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Hear me out.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have I'll listen to what you say, but then I have a note.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: I got one in my possession recently.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like a 90s one or like a modern one?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a little bit older.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: I could be totally wrong actually to look at the cap the copyright on it.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, it got into my hands through our friend Lisa, who is a teacher, and um sourced it and said, I have to borrow it and return it because it's part of her.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: She has her little stamp that's like the library of Dr.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Lisa.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not mine.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And Lisa, if you're listening to this, I know I'm gonna give it back.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it is a Tower of London choose your own adventure book.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Which is just ironic because we were literally just talking about, we were joking because our banter was so boring last time.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And like Okay, chill out.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: I we I from someone who just listened to it, I was like, okay, we're talking about orthopedic shoes.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yes, I started that conversation and I will own up to that, and I apologize for our shoe conversation.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: But, anyways, we were we made a um a stupid joke how, oh, if only this podcast was like, you can pass forward to this part if you want to hear this.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, if you want to hear this, like go to this section.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: I see, like a choose your own adventure.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: We were just talking about that.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: So this Tower of London Choose Your Own Adventure, it's really cute.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's this, these friends who go to the Tower of London for a nighttime tour for a ghost tour.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Except me, you, and Lisa.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: And they lose their tour guide because one of the friends is like, no, I want to hang back and look at Trader's Gate.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, friend, the tour guide, the the yeoman is walking ahead and we've lost our group.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so they kind of get like lost in the tower.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's nighttime.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like, she'll be like, I don't know.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Did the group go to Tower Green or do or did they go to Beacham Tower?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, which one do you want to go to?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Go to Tower Green.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then you go to Tower Green, and then it's like, it takes you in different directions around the tower.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's fine.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like, you hear someone with like dangle, like clinging keys, like, sounds like a ghost.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do you go investigate or do you run away?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of cheesy, but I really, and it's so much fun as an adult because you can read it so many times with different adventures.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like a whole afternoon of reading this one little children's book because there's so many directions.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think you found all of the adventures?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm not done yet.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's an algorithm.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to create.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Did you you should start writing down how many you've done?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: The combinations of exactly it says, okay, I'm gonna exaggerate on this.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I could be exaggerating.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it said there was like a hundred combinations, but I can't be.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a lot.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Totally right.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: In this tiny children's book that's like a hundred pages, it's like it's like a little skinny.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, my issue with those, because I remember thinking I would love those.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think my first choose your own adventure was like a goosebumps book.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was such a goosebumps kid in the 90s.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I like heck yeah.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I bought so many.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like every time they were weirdly at like the grocery store we went to.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So my mom would always buy me a new one.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And one uh Christmas, my dad bought me the rest of the collection that I didn't have.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know how he got his hands on these, but he just gave me a box and it was every single goosebumps book I didn't have.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: How did he know?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's impressive.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: He asked me for a list.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, tell me what you're doing.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, you had a list.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he's very, he's like me, where he's very organized.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they were numbered too.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was very easy because it was like literally one through 64 or whatever, however high it went.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he got me the rest.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I read almost all of them when I was a kid.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember towards the end of my like goosebum era, I was kind of bored with them, and someone gave me the choose your adventure slicky goosebump book.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I hated it because I'm such like a I think at least then, maybe I'm different now, not really, but such a like a linear person.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: What you don't think you're still a linear person?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just I hate that there's like stuff I don't know in this book.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So like I didn't want to.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't know.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: I can see that being frustrating for you.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was very frustrating.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's my first discovery of me being frustrated with something like that.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Where like makes sense.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're kind of chaotic.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I read it through, and the first adventure I chose, like the like the last page you flip to, it's like, oh, and you died.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, that's over.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I tried like another adventure, and it only took me like two more steps, and then I died or something.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember being like, this is pointless.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no climax, there's no like real storytelling, it's just like a quick blurb, and then you end up in some unfortunate fate.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Doing it wrong.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I guess.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll okay, Lisa, I will give it back.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: I will let you borrow my borrowed book of the Tower of London Choose Your Own Adventure.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Panic attack right now.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: We can read it together and we can say, okay, what page do we want to go to?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then we can write it.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: You can make a spreadsheet.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: You're right.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: This will be fun.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: All night.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, next sleepover.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: You make a spreadsheet, and we will be thorough and we can get all combinations.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that means AI assistance to make sure.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: That I like because I just don't want to miss anything.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know you don't.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we won't have to.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I hate that feeling of like I left a stone unturned.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: We will turn over every stone in the tower.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, thanks, Megan.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my favorite.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: My favorite goosebumps, which was also the best show, because then they had the goosebumps show, was the one where it was, I think they called it like the t Tower of Terror, and it was supposed to be like the Tower of London.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was a night in Tower.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, Tower of Terror is Disney.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, Tower Terror is Disney, but it was like a night in something.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a night in Terror Tower.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Terror Tower.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what it's called.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: A night.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was a it was a spin-off of the Tower of London without and it was basically like this choose your own adventure.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: They go to the tour, it's supposed to be Tower of London, it's not, it's a knockoff, and uh tower terror, and then they get lost, and then they go back in time, and then they end up almost getting beheaded at the tower.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's when my obsession with execution was around that time, and that's when I was like, whoa.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: The Goosebumps show, like the old one, used to be on Netflix.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: We should check to see if it's still there.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's on two tube.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Is that how you say it?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: I recently found it.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: You did?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: You did that episode?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: After this, we should turn it on.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's free.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to watch like 55 minutes and ads.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a 30-minute show.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's worth it.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Anywho, okay.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Our banter was way better than orthopedic shoes this time.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very proud of you.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we either talk about old people shoes or 90s nostalgia.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Whoops.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, this is what happens when you get two millennials together with microphones.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: I did go to two weddings this last weekend with a bunch of Gen Z people.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make me younger?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Makes you cool.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I got skinny sunglasses.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make me younger?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: To counteract my orthopedic shoes.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're cool still.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do we even need to talk about the weddings?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, they just know that they were on the East Coast.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: One was in Virginia, one was in New Jersey.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Even traveling.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot, and I'm still catching up on sleep, but you know, I made it and I powered through.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, and your new sunglasses are very cool.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: We are cool.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: We are cool.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, our woman of the evening's also really cool.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I found out who this lady was when I was reading my Margaret George Memoirs of Cleopatra book.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And she was just like a very quick story in the book.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought she was fascinating enough to make a full episode on.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to preface this episode because we're we're going to take you back to ancient Rome here, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: These are AD times, like early, early AD times.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Deserves a preface, God help us.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And just know that, like many stories in this era, like we did um Berenice the Fourth as our starter for this uh season, and we kind of prefaced it with like, this is an era of like tons of murder and incest and like crazy things that happen.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So just know that like what we're giving you tonight is like an abbreviated version because there's a lot of murder, there's a lot of execution, there's a lot of incest.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: It gets really crazy.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we're giving you like a taste.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not even, you know, part of it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: As we were prepping for this episode, and we just kept hearing about more, not even like as interesting, but just more interesting executions.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, wait, is that the episode?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is that our person?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: We almost changed our person several times.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: We almost did.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's a lot that we can, like Elizabeth said, like we could very easily go off and do deeper dives on some, it's just like a web of information.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna try to try to keep linear here in Elizabeth's preference.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm really gonna try not to go off on all of these other interesting stories because yeah, this this episode could turn into five, honestly.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is actually the you know, I like that you did the choose your own adventure as the intro because I'm gonna keep us linear and you're gonna take us on the few.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And like, if you want to hear about this person's execution, yeah, let's jump over here.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good segue.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we are really killing it with our transition.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Unplanned.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: That was really cool.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: That was unplanned.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: All right, go for it, Elizabeth.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: So who are we even talking about?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because I actually forgot.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know after all this.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so her name is Julia Agrippina the Younger, because her mother has the same name, but she's known as Agrippina the Elder.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna call you that Elizabeth the Younger.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: My mother's not Elizabeth, but there's other women in my family.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of Elizabeths, and we can just call you the younger.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just went to two weddings with Gen Z people and I'm young.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hair flip.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so Agrippina, and we're just gonna call her Agrippina.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're not even gonna call her Julia.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna confuse her, but just know.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's Julia.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's Julia in this episode.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're not even gonna mention that name.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna use like specific names for specific people in this episode.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So she was born in 15 AD.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was born in a place called Oppidum Obiorium, if I'm saying that at all correct.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful place.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Roman outpost on the Rhine River, so it's actually near present-day Cologne, Germany, which is very interesting.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny when you think of like Roman Empire, you think of mostly like Italy, Mediterranean, you know, and this is just smack dab Germany.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but her parents were, again, as we mentioned, Julia, Agrippina the Elder, and her father's name was Germanicus, which I find funny because they're German.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it keeps it easy.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Keeps it kind of easy.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and her parents, which was kind of rare for this era, but her parents traveled together on like different military campaigns because um Germanicus was a well-known general and politician.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was pretty beloved, like very well liked.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And his wife traveled with him wherever they went.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So her very early years, um, she spent traveling with her parents like throughout Germany.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: But when she was around three or four years old, she returned to live in Rome.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh her she was with her paternal grandmother.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this is Germanicus' grandmother, Antonia, while her parents left for Syria to command the eastern provinces.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and really fun side note: Antonia is Mark Antony's daughter.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if you know who Mark Antony is, you should because you know it's Cleopatra and she marries Caesar first, and then she marries Mark Antony.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is Mark Antony's daughter, not with Cleopatra.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was a different wife.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I also knew that Agrippina's great-grandfather is Augustus, the Roman Emperor.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So she's got some strong roots.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: This girl isn't fooling around with her heritage.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is a two very strong lines um coming into play.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so what she's she's basically staying with her her grandmother, Antonia, in Rome.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And just a few years later, not even like 19 AD, so she's what, four years old, maybe five, um, Germanicus dies suddenly.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there's very, there's like a lot of suspicions surrounding his death.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: He dies in modern Turkey, and some people say, oh, it was just attributed to illness.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Other people claim no, like his death was very suspicious.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was definitely poison.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like he wasn't that old, he was very healthy, um, you know, his wife was with him.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there, there wasn't really anything to blame other than like someone had poisoned him.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and everyone was kind of killing everyone.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, they weren't crazy to think that.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Remember this era, a lot of murder, a lot of poison going on.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So not not very far-fetched.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, he was very publicly loved.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, of course, the public wants answers.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the the emperor at the time is Emperor Tiberius, and he's a very paranoid guy at this time.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so he gets very paranoid by this death because he thinks, well, if if he dies, his sons and his wife are gonna come after my throne.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So he essentially exiles them, I think starves them out at some point.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, jeez.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and the only people that survive all of this, because I I want to say they had something like 11 children together.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Four of them were named Julia.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly, which is why we're not gonna go into depth.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the only ones that survive are uh Agrippina the Younger, her brother Caligula, which I think is the only boy, and then two of her sisters.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: He's the only boy left.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I actually I only heard that she had three brothers and two sisters.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, so maybe we had different information.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we we know in this era that a lot of kids are born, not all of them even make it to like, you know.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: The the the ones that stuck with it was Nero Caesar Life stuff with living.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Nero Caesar, Drusus Caesar, Caligula, Julia Drusilia, and Julia Lavilla, and then Julia Agrippina.
• 19:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Nero, Caesar, and Drusus, um they do die.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, yeah.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're le Oh, they were the ones who are murdered.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Then we're just left with Agrippina, Caligula, and the two Julia.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a fun little fact about Caligula.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think he was maybe one of the, like, he was probably the favorite boy.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: They said he was quote unquote a mascot for their military.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess Caligula translated to little boots.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they like to like dress him up in little outfits and costumes, and he was like the unofficial mascot of the military.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: So so she's had this kind of tumultuous childhood, right?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's traveling all around, father dies, uh, family, other members of her family start dying.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so by the time she's 13, she's already arranged to be married, which isn't that outrageous for this era.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they they deem that she, and I don't know who they is, maybe just you know, her the politicians at the time.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Tiberius, but while he was still living.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think so too.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: So Tiberius, other politicians are saying, hey, she needs to be wed.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the person they choose for her is her first cousin, and his name is Domitius, if I'm saying that right.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um Domitius is much older than her.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: They and again, age range here is huge, but they speculate that he's between about 30 years old and 50 years old, which is a pretty big gap.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: But again, she's only 13.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he, by all accounts, was quote unquote in every aspect of his life detestable.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: He was not a good person.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you have some notes to describe how bad of a person he was.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Just a couple of things that he was known for doing.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he once killed his slave because he was mad that the slave was not drunker than he was.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: No questions asked.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: He ran over a child with his chariot.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like for fun.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: That I don't know, but he didn't care and stopped for the child.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And those are just like two examples, but he was just a pretty awful person who saw a lot of people as beneath him and did not have an inch of respect for their lives.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So pretty gross guy.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Though the relationship between him and Agrippina is kind of unknown.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like they don't know if they were necessarily happy or at least like, you know, somewhat compatible.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, he was Could you be?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how you could be.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm gonna assume that this was not a good relationship.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's safe to say, yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh a few years passed, so by this time, 36 AD, Agrippina's about 21 years old, and t Tiberius dies.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the emperor dies, and who becomes the next emperor but Caligula?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently, he was the next in line, which I find funny because like Tiberius made such an effort to kill the rest of his family.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, how did Caligula get out of it?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Of that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now he's on the throne.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a weird lineage to get him index, but sure, let's go with it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now Agrippina, because her brother's on the throne, is is able to live a pretty nice life.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's a woman of influence and privilege.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Her and her sisters get a lot of special treatment.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think their likeness gets put put on the back of coins.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're allowed, this is funny, but like a special section to cheer at at the games.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Fine.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, most women weren't allowed to go to the games of nobility.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that was part of like they were given the rights of vestal virgins, which part of the conditions meant that you could attend games.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't quite know what that means, but yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the next year, after Caligula becomes the emperor, so this is now 37 A.D., she has a son, and this is her only son, her only child she ever has.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: His name is Lucius.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Melfoy.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he could be, honestly.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: He's bad.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: It it makes sense why J.K.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Rowland came with up with the name Lucius once we get into it.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't know who Lucius is, just know that he goes on to become Emperor Nero, which we'll get into.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But heard of him?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nice guy.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you heard of Nero, you probably just know, if nothing else, bad also bad guy.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what's really funny is his dad, Domitius, who we've mentioned, right?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's a bad guy.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: He said when the baby was born, quote unquote, he said, I don't think anything produced by me and Agrippina could possibly be good for the state or for the people.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think because they were both probably awful people.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have a lot of morals.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And what we know about Agrippina, again, like we'll get more into a little bit of what shows of her character, but we know she's pretty ruthless.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she is around all these like devious, ruthless men.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's picking up a lot of that from them.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she's not afraid to go for the jugular.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she she will do whatever to get what she wants, and we'll kind of talk about those things as the story goes on.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: But very cunning, very devious woman.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Ruthless.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So her brother Caligula is on the throne, and there's a lot of incest happening in this era.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just start with saying that.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And to be really quick about incest, when we talked about our Egyptian episode at the beginning of the season with Berenice and like the Ptolemy family, um, the Ptolemies were very, and the Egyptians were like very accepting of incest.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could marry your brother, right?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that was totally fine.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: But in Roman law, it's not.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it they have a very different rules.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when we say like this things were incestuous, like it was not good considered it was the bad kind of incest, not the good kind of incest.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just make clear to clarify that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: So not confirmed, but assumed and supposed that Caligula was having a situation ship with his one of the Julia's sisters, um Drusilla.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Drusilla.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like a Cinderella step sister named Drusella.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they are very, very close.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: And she dies of a fever in the year 38.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And after this, Caligula just like really goes insane.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so much so that his remaining siblings being his sister, his other sister, Julia.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Lavilla Lavilla?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Am I saying that right?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think Lavilla.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just call her Lavilla.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Lavilla, and then Agrippina, and then even their cousin Le P Lapitas?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Messing up all these names.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Which Lapitas is uh Drusilla's widower.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when she dies, yeah.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, say that again.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we're talking about Agrippina.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh her sister, Lavilla, uh-huh, and their first cousin, Lapitas.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Lapitas was w he was uh he was married to Drusilla, who just died.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently that's okay.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can marry your cousins.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, because she was married to her cousin too.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: So they are starting to plot the downfall of Caligula because he is insane.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like for context, some of the terrible things that he was doing, like probably worse than Agrippina's current, like with her husband, because he's a bad guy too.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Caligula.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: He would do these terrible things.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: For example, they love the games, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've talked about the Roman games before.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're incredibly vicious and violent.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: But just for fun to keep things exciting during the games, he would randomly choose a section of spectators and feed them to the lions.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's insane.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: So imagine you have tickets to go see a show, to go see a game.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then you become part of it and you die.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why would you even risk it?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't even show up.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Are you that desperate for entertainment that you're like, eh, our our name may or may not get drawn?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's weird.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't win free t-shirts.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even think as a spectator, the other spectators want to see that, knowing that could have been them.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's their friends.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're all innocent.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: They're just they're just there watching the game like the rest of them.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's one thing he did.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: He would also, during these big parties and dinners, had a giant metal bowl.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I hate this.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: That we've heard of this as an execution method before.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't quite use it as an execution method, but more for entertainment.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: He would just choose a random slave who was working the dinner that night, again, just pulling cards on people.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: And make them go into the metal bowl and then light a fire underneath it.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just for the other di dinner party guests to hear the screaming.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like of them burning in the metal bowl.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's really creepy.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: That is gross.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he was just very fond of executing people.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Any little thing that you did wrong, he didn't like you, he didn't trust you, he didn't like something you did, or he's just bored.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: He could just say, Yeah, just execute that person right now with really no rhyme or reason.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that's Caligula after he goes insane because his lover sister dies and he just thinks all love is gone and humanity is out the window.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go back to Agrippina, her sister, and then her cousin.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe the three of them were lovers again.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: That was kind of thrown around in some things that we read.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: But they did put together a murder plot and they were found guilty through handwritten letters talking about how they were going to kill Caligula and then put their cousin on the throne.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like Agrippina's not that messy to have that kind of evidence.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it was her.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was probably Lepidus, the one that the cousin that they wanted on the throne.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it was him.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: He sounds like an idiot.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we never hear much of him before that or anything.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: So he gets executed.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: For trying to murder Caligula.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's found guilty.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then Agrippina, first, she's forced to have to carry his ashes after his execution.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then her and her sister are both exiled to the um Pontine Islands.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Am I saying that right?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Am I writing?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: They're about 70 miles away from Rome.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: They have volcanoes.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of fun.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: They're exiled.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: All of their furniture, their jewels, their slaves, all of their possessions, all of their wealth is sold off.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh around the same time, her husband, Domitius, the mean one, he dies.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's about 40 AD.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And kind of mysteriously dies.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like everyone, again, another story of just everyone kind of dying mysteriously around Agrippina, but right.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like not quite of age to die.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, life expectancy wasn't that long, but under suspicious uh circumstances, he dies.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so um Nero goes to live with his aunt, um, and all of his inheritance is taken away.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like once his dad dies, like no one's really looking out for him, and he just goes to live with his aunt.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And again, bit by bit, they're trying to just strip like the family of power.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Caligula, Caligula's wife, so the emperor, his wife, and his daughter, they'll get murdered because he's not a nice person.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: They murdered the whole family.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And once they are murdered, Agrippina's uncle now gets put on the throne.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: His name is Claudius.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Claudius, he's Claudius, uncle Emperor.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he's the brother of Germanicus, the father.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we we like the uncle so far.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uncle comes in and he brings back Agrippina from exile.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: So he's the new emperor and he's trying to make things right.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Agrippina comes back like thirsty for a man, evidently.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like she's kind of like flirting with a bunch of guys, trying to figure out who she wants to be with, ends up marrying a guy named Crispus, but we're not gonna talk about him very long.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Also, I like his name.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Crispus because it sounds delicious.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Chips.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Crispy chips.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna talk too much about him because he dies also shortly after.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Again, like probably poison.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe poison by Agrippina, because she gets a lot of money from it afterwards.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: But for the most part, the people were empathetic for her because like everyone around her is dying, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: And she was in exile, and like yeah, she's coming back.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: For her being so ruthless, the public really loved her, probably because they loved her father so much, too.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, she just always is getting like sympathy.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: People love her, people think like, oh, anything unfortunate that happens to her, like she doesn't deserve it, and she's such a nice person.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: One person hated her.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're right.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Her name was Messalina, she's messy.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: So Messalina is Claudius' wife, she's the empress, she's married to her uncle, the emperor.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Her uncle being Agrippina's uncle.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Agrippina's uncle, who's the emperor, is married to Messalina.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Messalina's kind of a bitch.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's wild.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: She you think the other people were insane?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: This lady has zero tolerance for anyone.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Wild.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: She hates Claudiceus' female family members, like Agrippina, like her sister.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: She just sees everybody as a threat.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes as far as for like, because she's really like one for calling the kettle black.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: She accuses the other sister, L Lavilla, the one that went into exile with Agrippina, and they were part of what I didn't call it.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: It was the plot of the three daggers.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, that murder plot between the cousin, the sister to take Caligula out.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry if this is like No, no, no.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're accusing the three daggers.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Was that what was that what Okay?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: So the sister, Messalina, accuses her of of adultery, not even with anybody who should really matter, just like, oh, she's being a little scandalous.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about she's accusing Lavilia.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for correcting me.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Messalina's accusing Lavilla of adultery like it should even matter.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, stay in your own lane, first of all.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And Messalina was widely known to have very public affairs.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Very public affairs.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: So public.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: She actually had a competition with another woman one night of how many men she could sleep with in one night.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: In one evening.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: Guess what her number was?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: You say it.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: 25 in one night.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: That was her really trying.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's gross.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: So she's pointing at other women, being like, she's an adulteress.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Execute her.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: The way that she has Lomville executed, the sister of Agrippina, is by starvation.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Put her in a cell, lock the door, and just forget about her.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And don't feed her.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Don't give her water.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's how she dies.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, this is Messalina.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is Claudius' wife.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she is just a hot mess and she's kind of terrible.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Karma is real though, because Messalina being the messy one with all of these lovers, went as far as actually having a wedding and married another man while married to the emperor.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't fly well with him.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, um, did you forget about me, your husband?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: She does not care.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: She has a giant wedding banquet, of course, gets arrested, and guess what?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: She is also executed.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Another execution story.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Her execution's interesting too.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's odd.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: They, because again, this is a very weird era of executions.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no formal, like, trial charges-specific way people are executed, or like you're uh executed in this way for this type of crime.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, what they like to do is pressure people to commit suicide.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: This happens very often.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: We saw, I mean, back with Socrates, where they forced him to commit suicide.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Drink the hemlock.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Drink the hemlock.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for her execution, they say, okay, you're gonna slit your own throat.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, she has trouble doing this.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: She's not good at that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: She's not good at that.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: No one's good at that.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so she struggles with that for a bit.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: She ends up not being able to slit her own throat.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: So then one of the guards or like her people in charge of her is like has to run her through with his sword.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: So supposedly, when the guard came back to Claudius, her husband, yeah, and informs him that the job has been complete.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: He all he says is, Can I get another chalice of wine?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: So Claudia said that?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, her husband.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Claudius her husband just asked for more wine after they informed him that his wife was executed.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Which, like, this story makes me rethink Claudius a lot.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I, gosh, I read the book I Claudius, which is like a 1930s book.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not actually written by Claudius.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not an autobiography.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people in this era, like in the early 80s, oh really?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: They wrote memoirs.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I thought you were joking.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, they did.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like a lot of their stuff's been destroyed, which we'll talk about in a little bit, actually, with Agrippina.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um, uh, so Claudius was kind of known as like this stupid like ruler.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like he had a limp, people thought he was kind of slow, but he was actually like very smart.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like he preferred like reading, and he was very um, like I don't know, he was he was just very intellectual.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so as a ruler, people were like, Oh, he's just he's not very politically savvy.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: But when I hear of things like this, I'm like, he was just as ruthless as the rest of me.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: None of them were cool.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he kind of sounded like he kind of softened up about Messalina, and he almost even he almost said, like, oh, let me see her and let me talk to her and I'll figure this out.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then they went ahead with the execution anyways.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, he did sound like he cared.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Oh, all right, never mind then.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I was gonna talk to her, bring me another chalice.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just kind of seems like a yes guy.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, he apparently was very easily persuaded.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so anyway, so this all happens, right?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Messalina's executed, and then Claudius is looking for a new wife.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Of course he is.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Crispus is gone.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Died.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so now Agrippina is available.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And even though she's his niece, they basically talk to, I guess, whoever it is, the senators or whoever's in charge of these types of incest laws, and they persuade them that, like, well, this isn't quite incestuous, blah, blah, blah.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they make their case for why they should be together.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: So in 49 AD, this is just one year after the execution of Messalina, um, Agrippina becomes the new empress.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So she is now the Empress of Rome.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they are married on New Year's Day.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: The public is not okay with this.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: The disapproval's very high.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Even though they like Agrippina, they just don't agree with this marriage.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's her uncle.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so so yeah, so disapproval is widespread.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as Agrippina becomes the Empress, like she's already getting her hands dirty.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing she wants to do is she tells Claudius, like, hey, if you're gonna be married to me, you have to adopt my son Nero.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Makes sense.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And Nero, like, she's wanting to put him on the throne fast.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, Claudius already has a son.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: He has a son named Britannicus.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he's a little younger than Nero.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: So she kind of reasons, like, oh, Nero's the older one, like he's going to be the one that's in line for succession.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Claudius, who's easily persuaded, is like, sounds good.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, your son over mine?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, like what could go wrong?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so of course, a few years roll by, I think five years, uh, fifth or 54 AD, Claudius then dies.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mysteriously.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Most likely, what is he, Megan?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Poison.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Probably poison.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Probably biagrappina, but probably biagrappina, probably with mushrooms in this case.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it it coincidentally is as soon as Nero is of age to rule.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: So he's 16 at this point.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's her third husband.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: She might have had more husbands.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I look at her, like her, you know, bio online.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's a bunch of men listed, and I'm like, are these just like lovers or are these all husbands?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: They just come in and out.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: And like Nero, though, so he originally was not raised to be an emperor.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: And he was very much into the arts and music, creativity.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: He loved living with his aunt when he just had this quiet life where he could enjoy, yeah, like art and theater and music.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now here he is, thrust onto the throne at 16.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: His two tutors were a dancer and a musician, right?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: He was a dancer.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and a barber.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: Someone and a barber.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who did his hair and someone who taught about a dance.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like he had a very like flamboyant upbringing.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Probably.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's a very feminine man.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and of course, because he's only 16, like Agrippina is the true ruler here.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so she dismisses his tutors, right?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, you're no longer gonna be taught by a barber and a dancer.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Megan.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Not just dismisses them, but maybe you're talking about other tutors of what she does to them.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: Kills them?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't she execute the tutors because they weren't doing a good enough job?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Not the dancer and the barber.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, her other his other tutors.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: I actually I remember what you're talking about, but I don't remember the specifics.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: I did, I do think she had a tutor killed.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have the specifics.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we do okay.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, I thought that's what you were referring to.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think all of this just goes back to Agrippina's character of being like a pretty ruthless woman.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: So she didn't like that Britannicus, the actual son of the emperor, right, was getting such like great tutors, and he was the one who was learning all of the military strategy and things that like uh someone who's gonna be emperor should be learning.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so she kind of like switched around their tutors and made them teach her son instead.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: About like being a politician and being a leader, right?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: And when one of the tutors was like, Yeah, he like basically didn't turn in an assignment and this isn't really his jam, she just had them execute it.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do remember this.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I thought that's what you're referring to.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, she dismissed the other tutors, and then yeah, she took a Britannicus' tutors, and then one of the tutors was like, Oh, your son's not like doing really well.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: She like, okay, bye.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Off with your head.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like I said, this episode full of murder.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Britannicus just got pushed to the side, the other, the other brother, like the stepbrother, right?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and she said um she would purposely dress them different.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, uh when they were, you know, going through parades or any kind of function where they were very visible, she would dress Britannicus, who was only a couple years younger than Nero, but she would dress him like he was a little boy.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh little boy's clothes, and like, you know, taught him with like little boy manners, or this is how you should speak as a little boy.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: And Nero, she like dressed him like a man, like you're an adult, you're gonna speak to people like you're a man, like you're gonna command a room.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And again, they're very like, they're pretty much the same age, like maybe three years apart or something.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: She wanted to give this perception though that Nero was fit to be the ruler, get the crowds and the public people to see Nero as a strong ruler.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's um it's so manipulative, right?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: She's oh yeah, she's like that helicopter mom from the very beginning.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: She's a mom and strategically putting everybody in their place, let the pieces fall.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, Britannicus just got really the he got the the short end of the stick.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was trying to say.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so Agrippina is now at a point where her face is on coins.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's extremely famous, she's extremely well liked, she's managing uh state correspondence.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: She's not technically allowed like in the Senate to go to meetings, but she literally is behind a curtain at the meetings, like listening to everything.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: So she can give Nero advice.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, because Nero's emperor now after Cl Claudius dies.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: So Nero Nero's on the throne.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Nero's now on the throne.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Claudius is dead.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's only 16 years old.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: So she is just running the country through Nero.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I just like picture like in Mean Curls how the mom is like in the, you know, she's doing the dances during the Christmas recital or what talent show, whatever it is.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's Agrippina like behind the curtain, like, yeah, yeah, say this, do this.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Do you guys need anything?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Snacks, condas.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Mom, I'm having a Senate meeting.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: God, mom, you're so embarrassed.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Trying to rule Rome right now.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, so yeah, so she's essentially ruling everything.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And Nero, during the beginning of his rule, was like, okay with this because again, he's a very artsy man.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he doesn't really know how to lead, so he's taking his mother's advice.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: They are kind of co ruling peacefully for a long time, but he gets to a certain point where he Just wants to enjoy what he enjoys, specifically his theater, his music, and his mistresses.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like the mistresses, he starts to um to get on the side because he was betrothed young, I think.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: To who was it who's betrothed?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: A Claudia of sorts.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, her name was Claudia, I think Octavia.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Claudia Octavia, he married.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: There was another Claudia Actae.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was his mistress.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Was the mistress.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: But they're all in Claudia as well.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Point, yeah.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Point being that.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Find a name, stick with it.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: But he has this political marriage with Claudia Octavia.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he is not interested in her, like sexually.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, he's he's off with other mistresses.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's when Agrippina kind of tries to rein him in.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, no, no, I don't like these mistresses.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she's very much making him like a mama's boy.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, listen to me.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: These women will not influence you because she doesn't want to do a place.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't want any other woman in his ear.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he at that point starts to kind of wise up and he's tired of her iron grip.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he decides um that, like, you know, they basically they get in like little squabbles about different things.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she actually tells Claudius, she says, What I can do is I can just withdraw my support from you, and I could give all of my support to your half-brother or your stepbrother.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um remember him.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Britannicus.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I can just throw all my weight behind him, and like you don't have to be anybody anymore.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what he does in response, because he's part of this family, he poisons Britannicus.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Britannicus dies.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I was rooting for Britannicus.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, he's gone.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's just like how advanced their dispute gets.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're still so nasty.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're still kind of civil, they're still kind of leading the country together, but because of these like very tumultuous uh disagreements, like people are dying because of them.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: I read a funny story where one of the ways that he would try to irk his mother, Agrippina, was he would just send people to her quarters to like literally just annoy her.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like she'd want to like be by herself and try to relax for a little bit.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he would intentionally just send like the most disliked people there to bug her.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like just little gripey things like that.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: I guess you didn't have a lot of entertainment in this day and age.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you just were like, everyone was like a people manipulator.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, Bob doesn't stop talking.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Let's bring Bob in there and talk her ear off while she's trying to take a nap.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Bob, go visit my mom for a few days.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so so the tensions are getting very high between them.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um Agripp Agrippina, once Britannicus dies, kind of realizes that she's losing her influence on her son.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like Britannicus was was also like her ultimate leverage, I think.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now that he's gone, she's slowly realizing she doesn't have much leverage left.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, uh-oh, I've raised a monster.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he might be a bad guy, shocking.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he's casting me aside for his mistresses.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: So she kind of takes the hint and is gonna regroup.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: So she goes to her seaside villa.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's still a very like popular figure with the public and with the military.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: So Nero knows he can't just do anything to her because Nero's at a point where he wants her like arrested and gone.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he knows he can't do that because, again, she's very well liked and she's a very public figure.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: So he starts uh essentially devising ways of killing her that make it look like an accident.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where it gets interesting because we've talked a lot about the ending of this story, and um, we don't want to spoil the ending, but we're gonna just say like there's there's a lot of very fine lines here between execution, assassination, and murder.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: So blurred lines, very blurred lines happening here at the end.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: We had to really unpack this because we like to, we're pretty rigid of we get requests a lot of like, oh, can you do this story?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just a murder.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, it has to be a legal execution for it to end up on Beheaded Podcast.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: This story has been categorized in multiple ways.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: For example, on like Wikipedia, I was looking under first century executions.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: This story shows she's on the list.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: I asked my AI bot.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, now we're just exposing ourselves.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I was like, was she executed?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, yes.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like this was a politically motivated murder, like, you know.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: But also it could be considered assassination slash murder.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll tell we'll tell you how it goes, and you can kind of be the judge.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's what that's why we decided to have the conversation.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because we can see different perspectives of it and we want to hear from you.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: So what happened was once she's in the seaside villa, um, Nero decides he's gonna officially do away with her, but he does it in a very theatrical way because he's a theatrical man.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a very bizarre and kind of botched assassination plot.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: But this the year is 59 AD, she's probably in her early 40s, late 30s at this point.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he invites her to this festival, this big festival that they're having in Rome, to publicly reconcile, to say, you know what, if let's put our squabbles aside.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let the whole empire know that we're on the same.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: She took the bait.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: She literally sends her an invitation.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, come on.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: And she takes the bait.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: She says, I love my son.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: He saw the light.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't want his mistress, he only wants his mother.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: How lovely.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: How lovely.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: So so she goes back to Rome.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: They have this wonderful time together.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's giving very like black dinner uh vibes where they have this nice night, like everything goes well.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or like Emperor's new groove, like, invite her over, wine and din her, give her a great evening, and then see what happens.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: So so then he sends her home on his little yacht that he's designed specifically for her.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: That should give you a sign.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: So she's going home on this boat, and this boat is specifically designed to sink.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's there's like lead in the ceiling, like the whole thing is engineered to literally fall apart.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like as soon as Yeah, like the ceiling will would collapse on them.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's funny.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: But she like she, Agrippina, is in this very elaborate like sofa, like chase lounge thing with this high-backed uh like yeah, it's like a high back on the on the chair.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: So as the the top of the boat is collapsing, this thing saves her lives.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: It like protects her and like keeps her from being, you know, submerged.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: So she is able to get out of the boat and swim ashore.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: But once she does that, like there's her, I think her either her friend or her maid is also on board.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: And these she notices um all the other, like the guards on the boat, or the soldiers on the boat, um, they they turn on the maid because the maid, like to in order to get saved, she says, help me, help me.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Agrippina.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like in an effort of like, I'm the I'm the Empress.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: So save me.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the yeah, I'm the Empress.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: And they clearly didn't know what she looked like, sure.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: But but they, you know, it's dark and they're confused and they hear this woman crying.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: So they bludgeon her to death.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when Agrippina's like, uh oh.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: She sees that.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, wait, they bludgeoned the the girl that they thought was me.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: Game is on.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: Blew their cover.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: And evidently Nero didn't know his mom could swim because she just backstroked it all the way to shore.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: She liked made it to shore.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: She was just fine.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: Tough woman.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: And now she realizes there's been an attempt on her life.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a few different accounts of this, depending on different like uh Roman historians.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: But um, one account is that she she doesn't know it's her son trying to kill her.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this could be anyone trying to kill her.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's trying to kill everyone at this time.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: So she sends a messenger to her son saying, Hey, please alert Nero that like I was almost killed.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so this messenger goes to Nero, and then Nero looks at the messenger and he throws like a dagger at the messenger's feet, and he says, I can't believe you came in to assassinate me.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: So he like knows that you know his mom is sent this guy.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: So she he now is trying to turn the story on her, like, oh my god, everybody, she just sent a murderer in here.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's trying to assassinate me.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: So he's so whiny.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's very whiny.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, also such a little mama's boy.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: So some historians say that didn't happen.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Either way, the what happens after is pretty confirmed.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: But he sends an armed squad to her room and specifically to like surround her bed and do away with her.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: Again, is this an execution or is this assassination?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have my own opinions on it.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I my opinion is because like an execution is defined as like a state-ordered killing, right?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to commit a crime.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: So he's the state, he's the emperor, and uh her crime is essentially treason.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: He did charge her with a crime.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's saying, You attempted to kill me, like you're treasonous, like you know, this is your punishment, which is death.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Which he created that false appearance that she was sending an assassinator on him.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: To me, it's very similar to like the Black Dinner, which had a very quick sham trial and quick execution, or like the Romanovs being executed, where they just read out their charges right before they were killed by a firing squad.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, I think this is an assassination, or excuse me, an execution, but I think historians say typically that this is seen as an assassination.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: The thing that I feel like defining this as more of an assassination and not an execution is they approached her while she was sleeping and then they bludgeoned her.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was an attack.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: If it was an execution, they should have read a sentence to her saying you are now hereby sentenced to die under Emperor Nero's instruction for charges of treason, and then they bludgeon her.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't know if that happened.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Unconfirmed.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Unconfirmed.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: We do know what she said to them before she died.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: What was that?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: So her last words, and I hope I'm saying this right in Latin, um, but was ventrum fairy, which means smite my womb, like strike me in the stomach or the womb, because she's basically saying, like, I know that Nero's doing this, like, you know.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: I came from his like he came from my womb, so take out my womb.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I don't know.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've I feel like I'm comparing this, like you said, there's so many other executions that were not like there was no trial.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was not elaborately planned out and publicized.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: The Romanovs was another one like that where they were misled, they were brought downstairs, they had no idea what was going on.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: They thought they were escaping to safety.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then it turned, and then they found out it was their execution.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you mentioned the black dinner as well.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: We did that episode where the two young boys were invited over to dinner, and then all of a sudden they're like, you are being executed, and then all of a sudden they were be they were dragged outside and beheaded.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, again, I uh to me the the defining point is if there was a sentence thread or not, but I it sounds like the the part of it too is like, is it legal because the emperor approved it and ordered it and legalized it?
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the I mean, everyone was killing everyone back then.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: We just heard of like 10 other poisons and murders and executions happening.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: But is it because Nero was the emperor that made it legal and not considered murder?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because he had all these guards following orders to do it.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: How messy.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: However, one more note, one more thing to consider is that after she had died, after Agrippina was dead, he tried to say that she committed suicide.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh which makes me think it's even up then.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because he because what he could have done is announced to everybody she is treasonous, and I had her executed.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: That he was weak about it.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Oh yeah, she must have just killed herself.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: Must have just smited her womb and got bludgeoned in the head on her own.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it's, you know, it's it's muddy waters, but I still love the story regardless, because there's so many other definitely confirmed executions involved with it.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that was just the time period, right?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was brutal.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Nero, if you can believe it, turned into even a worse person after even worse than killing his mother and everything else.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: He was very much like haunted by his mother's death.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think he even hired like Persian uh, I don't know, like witch doctors or something.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: As he should be terrified, like to counsel him.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: You should be riddled in guilt over this.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: So he fell into a deep madness.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: He became even more of a tyrant.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was already kind of a bad guy, obviously.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: All of them were, but fell into a really, really dark spell and became probably the worst, like one of the worst dictators in history.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, he didn't have a nice bone in his body.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, very bad times.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what were some oh, some of the weird things that happened?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I've got some weird things that happened.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so speaking of his mistresses that we talked about earlier, just so just to like illustrate how bad of a guy he was, especially after his mother's death.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: So he was with Sabina while married to Claudia, right?
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: And Claudia pissed him off, his wife, in some way.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: Sabina was probably pissing him off, and he like to prove a lesson or something, he had Claudia, his wife, beheaded.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then had her head carried on a tray to Sabina to show him, to show her, like watch yourselves.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look what I just did in my wife.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: You think you're so special?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're not even my wife.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: Very John the Baptist.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then Sabina became impregnated by him, and they had some type of um an issue happen.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: Lovers they got into a little spiff there, and this is sad, but he kicked her in the stomach.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is terrible.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: Caused a miscarriage and killed her.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: Killed her in the process of it.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like the guy was just nasty, and it gets weirder.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that was with Sabina.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: So he he kills Claudia, he kills Sabina, right, and then he's again feeling guilty over all of it.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: He was already feeling guilty about his about his mother.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now he's feeling this weird sense of like guilt and loss and missing Sabina after he kicked her to death.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: So he has a small slave boy that he claims looked like Sabina.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is weird.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: Has him castrated and then has him dress up like Sabina and then pretends to be Sabina like permanently.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's like, your new personality is Sabina, act like Sabina.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: Tried to replace Sabina, who he murdered, with this poor helpless boy.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: That is so crazy.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: Who was castrated?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of sickening, right?
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: Confirmed bad guy.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is what we mean.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, as we're watching these documentaries and we just thought it would was gonna get worse.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, what?
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we always think, like, ooh, you know, people in this day and age are so twisted and weird and things are crazy.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then you look back thousands of years ago, you're like, oh my god, what'd they do?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's like brutal.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um, interesting story.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of executions weaved into it.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: Choose your own adventure execution.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: So choose your own adventure execution.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, again, Agrippina, you're gonna see different accounts and different versions of we found this on a list of executions.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: Found it on the list of assassinations as well.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: Take your pick.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there's a lot of evidence in both directions of it was pre-planned, it was legalized, and she was charged with a crime.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: We want to hear your take on it.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, let us know.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let us know.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: Were you gonna say anything else?
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because you had mentioned earlier about um how they're like the memoirs and how so much of it was lost.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: Was there something else on that?
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not not a whole lot, but um, I did read that she had actually published like a memoir in her lifetime.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: That would have been saucy.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because she wanted to like she was very aware of her legacy and how she wanted to be remembered, which at this this is how she's being remembered, by the way.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Agrippina, take note of that.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, in this time that was kind of rare.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think only men really did that.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it wasn't common for women to write down their life story and their take.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I think she was very protective.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, she was loved by the public at that time.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she was yeah, she was she was kind of terrible, but a lot of people were.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was a very doggy dog world in there, right?
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: It had to be tough, and especially as a woman.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, she was a you know, survivor and she had to do what she had to do.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, was she a survivor?
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, but I mean, like, but in the course of her short life, she she survived a lot of crazy.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: She survived a lot.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: She also, she also played the the villain in a lot of it.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, she uh arranged a lot of executions and murders and everything else as well.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I can't remember.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I I have to look this up again.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: Follow up for next time.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, should we write that down?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: But um not me, I don't see that.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I think Nero was the one that erased her memoirs.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like she had everything written down.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: I and I'm pretty sure it was Nero who wanted, like, kind of like King Henry VIII after his wife's die.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, we're gonna like eliminate traces of them.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so she had a memoir, and at some point it was completely destroyed.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that would have been a good read.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: Juicy.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably a little biased.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: Tiny bit.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure she made herself look real good.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I was just, she's like, she reminds me of like a Cersei Lannister type.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like she just did everything for the sake of her fan.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: Or like a Keller Medici type character of just poisoning everybody.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: Just I don't want to put Medadici in that category necessarily, but just really wanting their son to come to power and write.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, good, you're writing a note down.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's always a good idea.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's always a good sign.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: Agrippinas memoirs question.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: I I journal a lot.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_02: Can can you promise when I go that you won't burn all of my memoirs?
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: And never.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's a pretty evil thing to do.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: Preserve history.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: I will find all your journals.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: They're all they all put me in a very good light.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to tell me?
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: Of course they do.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Agrippina's like, I don't know why all my husbands keep dying.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: They keep getting these terrible stomach aches after I beat the mushrooms.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: You and Agrippina are like Gretchen wieners.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sorry that everyone's so jealous of me.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's our second mean year old's reference.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, uh, you do you tell me where your journals are?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, they're secret hidden.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how am I supposed to help you out then?
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you gotta Okay, if you know you're gonna die, send me a little telegram.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Send me a little note, tell me the location.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: I will find them, I will get them published.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: They're in my Harry Potter stamp.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: I could have guessed that.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: Strunk.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: I would have found that in 10 seconds in your house.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hogwarts trunk.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's in there.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well, that wasn't a big mystery.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: I thought you were gonna say like a loose floorboard.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's in a what what were those journals, though?
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: My password journal.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have one of those where it was like this um password journal?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was like voice decoded, and it was and it was a little like box that you kept your journal in.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea what this is.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: Write that down as a follow-up.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: No look up I think it was called Password Journal.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're telling me about them, so why don't you tell me about them?
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna write it down.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you have them or no?
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're from the 90s, they're archaic.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: You have to find one on eBay.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: So there's no lock on your journals.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's no lock on my Hogwarts trunk.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: Did I tell you what I did to my middle school journal?
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I had this like really shiny, it looked like iridescent cover book.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: It had a little lock on it, right?
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I started it in third grade.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I took it all the way through middle school.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know how to write?
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: Of course I did.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: My first thing was talking about how one of my cousins was annoying me.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sent to annoy me by Nero.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, but my uh so I literally wrote just like the silliest things all through like late elementary school, and then middle school got like heavy.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, because middle school you're dealing with like real stuff.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I remember I read it all right before high school, and I was like so embarrassed of the middle school chapter of my life.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: You got rid of it?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: I burned it.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh what the fuck is wrong with you?
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: I took it outside, I put it in my parents' like outdoor fireplace I burned it, and I kept the lock that I still have as like a reminder.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Fun fact about me.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: Can I see it after this?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: Is it like it's in it's in Colorado?
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can show you.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can't have my mom send a picture.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really fun fact about you.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I was like, I I really wrestled with myself.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I want to keep some of these memories, like from like elementary school.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, like this doesn't matter anymore.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's my past, and I earned it.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: I kept the lock.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's like really deep and kind of villainous and a little harsh, but I was 13.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was going through some shit.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I have my old journals too from middle school and high school, and my favorite is this one page where it's just green day lyrics written out of time of my life with teardrops all of the time.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_02: Very emotional.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was a little emo.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was crying and writing out Green Day lyrics.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's so funny.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: I kept my school journals.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: Those are you saw those.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: I you published them.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: The green ribbon entries.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that is on the Instagram.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: The Instagram.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: We are the real though.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: How did we get here?
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're bantering at the end.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: We never banter at the end.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: We never banter at the end.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: We gotta, I gotta, um, I'm I'm gonna clean this up.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: Go find the goosebumps episode.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it right now.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, real quick, Elizabeth, any final words?
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: Veteran Ferry.