Latest / Drawn of History / Ro Khanna _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _591(M4A_128K)
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: California, we've got some new tour dates for you. I'll
- 0:03Speaker 1: be in Los Angeles on August 14th at the Dolby Theater,
- 0:08Speaker 1: Anaheim on August 16th at the Honda Center, and Oceanside
- 0:13Speaker 1: on August 17th at Front Wave Arena. Get your tickets
- 0:17Speaker 1: early this Thursday, June 19th with code RATKING, 10 a.m.
- 0:21Speaker 1: local time. General on sale begins Friday, June 20th. Get
- 0:26Speaker 1: your tickets only at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. Please avoid any
- 0:33Speaker 1: scalper sites. And thank you so much. This is the
- 0:36Speaker 1: Return of the Rat Tour. Almost over. I promise it's
- 0:38Speaker 1: almost over. And thank you guys so much for all
- 0:41Speaker 1: the support. Today's guest is a United States congressman from
- 0:45Speaker 1: California's 17th district. That is Silicon Valley. He's from Philadelphia.
- 0:51Speaker 1: His parents immigrated from India. He worked with Bernie Sanders.
- 0:55Speaker 1: He was his co-chair on Sanders' presidential campaign in 2020.
- 1:00Speaker 1: I'm grateful for his time. He's a member of the
- 1:02Speaker 1: Democratic Party. Today's guest is Congressman Ro Khanna. Ro Khanna.
- 1:25Speaker 1: Is that right?
- 1:26Speaker 2: That's right. Perfect.
- 1:27Speaker 1: Nice. Thank you for coming in today, man. Thanks for
- 1:30Speaker 1: meeting up and just being willing to come and chat.
- 1:34Speaker 1: You are Indian? Your family is Indian?
- 1:36Speaker 2: Indian heritage, yeah. My parents immigrated from India. My grandfather, actually,
- 1:42Speaker 2: Amarnath Vidyalankar, spent years in jail fighting for India's independence
- 1:48Speaker 2: as part of Gandhi's independence movement. And then my parents
- 1:53Speaker 2: came and settled in Philadelphia. That's where I was born.
- 1:56Speaker 1: Do a lot of Indian people– is that a– you
- 1:59Speaker 1: know how some places in America are certain like kind
- 2:01Speaker 1: of spots where people start to come? Is that a
- 2:03Speaker 1: popular place that a lot of Indian people have gone
- 2:04Speaker 1: to over the years?
- 2:05Speaker 2: You know, where I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania,
- 2:07Speaker 2: there were a few Indian families, but it was 99
- 2:09Speaker 2: percent white. the bigger places are New Jersey. Have you
- 2:14Speaker 2: ever been to Edison, New Jersey?
- 2:16Speaker 1: I don't think so.
- 2:17Speaker 2: Edison, it's got a lot of Indian food. Have you
- 2:19Speaker 2: eaten Indian food?
- 2:19Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've had some good Indian food.
- 2:21Speaker 2: What's your favorite dish?
- 2:23Speaker 1: I think it's like the one, it's like where you
- 2:25Speaker 1: all sit in a circle and everybody kind of like
- 2:27Speaker 1: catches a cold together or whatever. Catches a cold? No,
- 2:31Speaker 1: I just mean like everybody's like kind of sharing off
- 2:34Speaker 1: of the same thing. Yeah, it is a very sure thing.
- 2:35Speaker 2: You got to come to Fremont sometime in California. That's
- 2:38Speaker 2: the best Indian food in the... in the country, but Fremont,
- 2:41Speaker 2: Silicon Valley, a lot of Indian families, New York, New Jersey.
- 2:45Speaker 2: You know, but my upbringing was interesting because I was
- 2:47Speaker 2: one of the few Indian kids growing up in Pennsylvania. And,
- 2:53Speaker 2: you know, I grew up though with a lot of
- 2:55Speaker 2: people who, teachers who believed in me, little league coaches
- 2:58Speaker 2: who believed in me. And at times I would get
- 3:01Speaker 2: teased being Indian, but by and large, it made me
- 3:04Speaker 2: very hopeful about the country.
- 3:07Speaker 1: Yeah, man. Well, thanks. I know we wanted to talk about,
- 3:10Speaker 1: I'm trying to think, I actually wrote some questions down
- 3:12Speaker 1: today because I feel.
- 3:12Speaker 2: Like it's important. This is like meet the press. You're
- 3:18Speaker 2: on a different level. I thought, you know, the thing
- 3:21Speaker 2: I love about your show is it's kind of just
- 3:23Speaker 2: you talking like a regular person.
- 3:25Speaker 1: Maybe you're right. Should I put these away, you think?
- 3:27Speaker 1: I mean, no, you can give it a try.
- 3:29Speaker 2: Okay.
- 3:30Speaker 1: I think, you know why? I think this is what
- 3:31Speaker 1: I realized. I was like, Man, sometimes I have conversations
- 3:35Speaker 1: with people that I want to be able to get
- 3:38Speaker 1: more information from, and I can't remember everything, right?
- 3:42Speaker 2: But you know what the thing about you is? I'm
- 3:43Speaker 2: not saying this to flatter you. A lot of times
- 3:45Speaker 2: you'll ask questions, and they're like deeper and smarter than
- 3:48Speaker 2: some of the Sunday talk show hosts. And I think
- 3:51Speaker 2: it's because you actually talk to real people. And it's
- 3:53Speaker 2: sort of like, well, how does this affect my buddy?
- 3:55Speaker 2: How does this affect real people? So you could give
- 3:58Speaker 2: it a try. We'll do a mix.
- 4:00Speaker 1: How about this? I know how we got in touch
- 4:03Speaker 1: is you and I have similar thoughts on different topics online. Well,
- 4:08Speaker 1: let's just start with Iran or Iran. People say it differently.
- 4:10Speaker 1: But do you think we're headed into World War III here?
- 4:12Speaker 1: What do you think is going on?
- 4:14Speaker 2: I'm really concerned. I'm fearful. We have a– possibility where
- 4:21Speaker 2: we're going to blunder into another war in the Middle East.
- 4:25Speaker 2: And just today, actually, to make some news, Thomas Massey,
- 4:28Speaker 2: who is a principled Republican and myself, introduced a war
- 4:32Speaker 2: powers resolution saying that the president should not get into
- 4:37Speaker 2: a war with Iran without coming to Congress. You know,
- 4:41Speaker 2: the president, to his credit, ran against the war in Iraq.
- 4:44Speaker 2: He ran saying, I don't want any wars. And the
- 4:48Speaker 2: reality is that if we strike Iran, they start hitting
- 4:52Speaker 2: us back and hitting our troops in the Middle East,
- 4:55Speaker 2: terrorist activity. That's going to cost this country a lot
- 4:58Speaker 2: of money that should be being spent here at home.
- 5:01Speaker 2: It's going to mean people could die who are serving
- 5:04Speaker 2: the country.
- 5:05Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Well, let's look at this bill you guys
- 5:07Speaker 1: were thinking about. What is it called?
- 5:09Speaker 2: It's called the War Powers Resolution to Stop a War
- 5:12Speaker 2: in Iran, which basically says before the president does anything
- 5:15Speaker 2: to go into war, With Iran, he's got to get
- 5:18Speaker 2: a vote in Congress.
- 5:20Speaker 1: And how long does that take, though, like usually to
- 5:22Speaker 1: get a vote in Congress? Is there a certain period
- 5:24Speaker 1: of time? Can they do it in 24 hours? It
- 5:25Speaker 1: takes weeks or what? They could.
- 5:26Speaker 2: It's the decision of the Speaker of the House when
- 5:28Speaker 2: he can bring it. He has to bring it within
- 5:30Speaker 2: 15 days. But what we want is today. But by
- 5:33Speaker 2: the way, you know, there are a lot of Trump
- 5:35Speaker 2: supporters who are telling him, don't go into this war.
- 5:39Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson. Marjorie Taylor Greene.
- 5:42Speaker 1: Oh, Dave Smith was talking about it. He's a political–
- 5:45Speaker 1: he's a comedian who also talks a lot about politics. Oh,
- 5:47Speaker 1: I think this is a horrible idea. And yeah, people say, well,
- 5:52Speaker 1: you don't know a ton about the Middle East. I'm like,
- 5:53Speaker 1: that's fine. I don't want people I know– My friends
- 5:58Speaker 1: getting called up. I don't want the children of my
- 6:01Speaker 1: friends getting called over to die. I don't even understand
- 6:05Speaker 1: how it's an option. The only reason I even kind
- 6:08Speaker 1: of want it to be possible is... to give is
- 6:12Speaker 1: that if Israel like goes to war with Iran, then it'll,
- 6:16Speaker 1: they'll at least stop killing Palestinian people for a day
- 6:18Speaker 1: or two. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like that's
- 6:20Speaker 1: like my own, it's like at least point the guns
- 6:22Speaker 1: that way, you know, kind of, that's where some of
- 6:24Speaker 1: my thoughts are.
- 6:25Speaker 2: Well, you've been such a courageous voice on, on Gaza.
- 6:28Speaker 2: I mean, you look at what's going on there, right? 55,000
- 6:33Speaker 2: people killed. Now Israel says some terrorists and they're right.
- 6:37Speaker 2: Some terrorists, but most of them, women and children.
- 6:40Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 6:41Speaker 2: You've got 130,000 people injured. You've got over 600,000 kids
- 6:47Speaker 2: who are not in school there. You've got the entire
- 6:50Speaker 2: population of Gaza being forced into a corner, southern corner
- 6:55Speaker 2: of Gaza. And then you've got over 400,000 people who
- 7:01Speaker 2: are starving, who don't have enough food to to live
- 7:05Speaker 2: a decent life.
- 7:06Speaker 1: Yeah, and the saddest part, I feel like, is you
- 7:08Speaker 1: see this and you're like, somebody should come help them.
- 7:10Speaker 1: That's my first thought a lot of times. And then
- 7:13Speaker 1: the saddest thought for me after that is, we should
- 7:16Speaker 1: come help. Like, it feels like America is the group
- 7:20Speaker 1: that would go to help that situation usually.
- 7:22Speaker 2: That's, we're the good guys, right? I mean, we were
- 7:24Speaker 2: the good guys in World War II. We saved the
- 7:27Speaker 2: world from Nazism. We were the good guys in the
- 7:30Speaker 2: Cold War. We stood up the Soviet Union. People want
- 7:33Speaker 2: to think that we are the good guys. Why are
- 7:36Speaker 2: we helping Netanyahu in the killing of children, women, and
- 7:44Speaker 2: so many Palestinian civilians? Now, look, Israel was hard hit
- 7:48Speaker 2: October 7th. I'm sure, like many people, you thought that
- 7:52Speaker 2: was horrific, the October 7th attack.
- 7:55Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
- 7:56Speaker 2: And neither of us have any sympathy for Hamas. They're
- 8:00Speaker 2: a terrorist group. But what happened is I supported initially
- 8:04Speaker 2: Israel saying, go get those terrorists who committed those horrific
- 8:07Speaker 2: attacks on October 7th. But within three months, they had
- 8:12Speaker 2: destroyed a lot of Hamas. What now is happening, over
- 8:17Speaker 2: two years later, they're still going and bombing. And they're
- 8:21Speaker 2: bombing because Ben-Gavir— And Smoltlich, two of the people in
- 8:26Speaker 2: Netanyahu's cabinet, are saying, don't stop the war. Even though
- 8:30Speaker 2: they know that you can't bomb and eradicate Hamas. They
- 8:34Speaker 2: haven't been able to do it. And the only thing
- 8:37Speaker 2: that's happening is that civilians are getting killed. And Israel
- 8:42Speaker 2: actually is becoming less popular in that region. I mean,
- 8:46Speaker 2: I was in Saudi Arabia and Jordan. They're losing support.
- 8:49Speaker 1: So why is it? Netanyahu trying to drag us into it.
- 8:54Speaker 1: What do you think that relationship is like between him
- 8:56Speaker 1: and Donald Trump?
- 8:58Speaker 2: So I think Donald Trump actually initially stood up to
- 9:00Speaker 2: Netanyahu because he wanted to bring this war to a close.
- 9:05Speaker 2: And he didn't want to get dragged in initially to
- 9:07Speaker 2: a war in Iran. I mean, you know what Trump's
- 9:10Speaker 2: courage was while he became president in 2016? Do you
- 9:13Speaker 2: remember the Republican stage and they all asked, are you
- 9:16Speaker 2: for the Iraq war? And Jeb Bush, who was George
- 9:19Speaker 2: Bush's brother, wasn't willing to say that his brother made
- 9:22Speaker 2: a mistake.
- 9:22Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. He's a little oil bunny.
- 9:24Speaker 2: You know, and Donald Trump, to his credit, stood up
- 9:27Speaker 2: on a Republican stage and said the Iraq war was
- 9:30Speaker 2: a disaster. I think that's how he became president. And
- 9:33Speaker 2: he ran saying, I want to be a president who
- 9:36Speaker 2: ends these wars. I really believe that's what he thought
- 9:40Speaker 2: at the time.
- 9:41Speaker 1: Oh, well, sure. Well, I think recently, you know, we're
- 9:44Speaker 1: doing OK without the notes so far, huh?
- 9:46Speaker 2: You're doing great.
- 9:47Speaker 1: OK.
- 9:47Speaker 2: I wish I wish people had more common sense. like you,
- 9:51Speaker 2: than the people who are making this foreign policy establishment. Actually,
- 9:54Speaker 2: my recommendation is that before Donald Trump makes a decision,
- 9:57Speaker 2: he needs to have a conversation with you. Oh, God. No, well,
- 9:59Speaker 2: to remind him, because I, you know, I watched your
- 10:02Speaker 2: actually clip with him during the presidential campaign. And I said,
- 10:06Speaker 2: you made him the most human that I've actually seen him.
- 10:10Speaker 2: I mean, your conversation with him about his brother and
- 10:13Speaker 2: Al calls him and then he asks you, what was
- 10:16Speaker 2: it like for you to have cocaine and your addiction?
- 10:18Speaker 2: And I thought, well, this is like him having a
- 10:20Speaker 2: normal conversation.
- 10:22Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt pretty normal.
- 10:23Speaker 2: And so, you know, but I think, do you know anyone, Theo,
- 10:26Speaker 2: in your life who's like, yeah, we should go out
- 10:29Speaker 2: and go to war with Iran? Like any of the
- 10:31Speaker 2: folks you talk to?
- 10:33Speaker 1: Nobody. Even like hardhead, you know, like even guys who
- 10:38Speaker 1: like Navy, former Navy, none of them. Nobody is saying yes.
- 10:43Speaker 1: And I felt like the biggest thing that's, I mean,
- 10:47Speaker 1: there's so many things right now. And it's like, that
- 10:49Speaker 1: I feel like in the world that are kind of
- 10:52Speaker 1: stressing people and making people nervous. Um, but one of
- 10:55Speaker 1: the things is I felt like it was supposed to
- 10:57Speaker 1: be America first. Like we're focusing on like, what are
- 10:59Speaker 1: we doing to get things back into America?
- 11:01Speaker 2: Right.
- 11:01Speaker 1: To like increase like the purpose of being an American
- 11:05Speaker 1: to refill, like our hearts with blood and like, and,
- 11:10Speaker 1: and make us feel something again here and make us
- 11:13Speaker 1: be excited about being an American, right? And I felt
- 11:15Speaker 1: like that was what a lot of the energy was for.
- 11:19Speaker 1: And then now that we're caught up here and it
- 11:22Speaker 1: feels like we are just working for Israel, I think
- 11:26Speaker 1: to a lot of people, it's, I don't know, you
- 11:29Speaker 1: just really start to feel very disillusioned pretty quickly. And
- 11:34Speaker 1: I don't mean disillusioned in people. I don't mean disillusioned
- 11:36Speaker 1: in like the human beings. but this disillusioned in our leaders, right?
- 11:41Speaker 1: You start to feel like, I don't know, at one point,
- 11:44Speaker 1: neither one of these parties is helping us.
- 11:47Speaker 2: Well, they both seem like parties that have gotten us
- 11:49Speaker 2: into war. I mean, $ 6 trillion it cost us into
- 11:53Speaker 2: Iraq and Afghanistan. And we need now an anti-war movement
- 11:59Speaker 2: in this country. And I don't think it has to
- 12:01Speaker 2: be Democrat or Republican. I think Americans are sick of war.
- 12:05Speaker 2: Here are the two things I think we could do. Look,
- 12:07Speaker 2: on how do you end the war in Gaza?
- 12:11Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. How do you, yeah, what
- 12:13Speaker 1: would you do to curtail things right now in Gaza?
- 12:15Speaker 1: Do you think they're really going to aim for like
- 12:17Speaker 1: a two-party state over there? To me, it looks like
- 12:20Speaker 1: they're just going to try to sweep these people into
- 12:22Speaker 1: the ocean, you know? Which I hate to say that.
- 12:25Speaker 2: The problem is you've got Netanyahu who is listening to
- 12:29Speaker 2: his right wing, right? Ben-Gavir and Smoltlich. These are two guys.
- 12:33Speaker 2: Smoltlich is the other guy's name? Smoltlich. Smoltlich.
- 12:36Speaker 1: Smoltlich, bring him up. There he is, Smoltlich. Zalo Smoltlich, yeah.
- 12:41Speaker 2: And these guys are basically telling Netanyahu that if you
- 12:47Speaker 2: stop bombing Gaza until all of Hamas is killed, that
- 12:53Speaker 2: we won't support you for prime minister so so netanyahu
- 12:57Speaker 2: stops he stops being prime minister oh i see.
- 13:00Speaker 1: What you're saying so he's in a bit of a
- 13:01Speaker 1: catch-22 he's in a catch-22 but why don't i don't
- 13:04Speaker 1: understand if they're because you always hear great things about
- 13:06Speaker 1: the israeli military right the idf you always hear like
- 13:09Speaker 1: how um amazing they are and i've met a lot
- 13:11Speaker 1: of former people that have been in it and um
- 13:14Speaker 1: guys who were like in the krav maga some really
- 13:16Speaker 1: talented um warriors really But then why not send like
- 13:21Speaker 1: your Navy SEALs to get the actual Hamas people? I
- 13:24Speaker 1: don't understand this. If you're so precise, then what is
- 13:29Speaker 1: this– you're bug spraying these people.
- 13:33Speaker 2: They got them in the first three months. They destroyed
- 13:36Speaker 2: most of Hamas' military capability. But the reality is Hamas
- 13:42Speaker 2: is both a military movement but it's also partly a
- 13:45Speaker 2: political movement.
- 13:46Speaker 1: I mean there are people– Some people in Palestine elected
- 13:49Speaker 1: Hamas because they thought they needed a desperate political party. Exactly.
- 13:53Speaker 2: Right. So then the question is, well, what do you do?
- 13:54Speaker 2: Because I agree with you that Hamas can't be governing Gaza.
- 13:59Speaker 2: And so there is a solution. And the solution is
- 14:02Speaker 2: the president, Donald Trump, can call Netanyahu. He says, OK,
- 14:04Speaker 2: enough with the bombing. You know, we're giving them right
- 14:07Speaker 2: now 2000 pound bombs. to hit these civilians. We're giving them.
- 14:12Speaker 1: There's a video the other day. Sorry to interrupt you, bro. No, please.
- 14:15Speaker 1: Can you see if you can pull it up, Trevor?
- 14:17Speaker 1: There's a video of a child picking up the casing
- 14:20Speaker 1: of a missile and reading it, I think. See if
- 14:25Speaker 1: you find that. Yeah, we can't find it. That's okay.
- 14:32Speaker 1: Do you think there's any chance of Palestine getting its
- 14:34Speaker 1: land back there?
- 14:36Speaker 2: I do. But first of all, I mean, you talked
- 14:38Speaker 2: about this. child getting a missile. I mean, how would
- 14:40Speaker 2: it make you feel that our tax dollars actually were
- 14:44Speaker 2: paying for a lot of the missiles and the weapons
- 14:47Speaker 2: that are being used to now kill Palestinians?
- 14:51Speaker 1: I agree. I think we've given them $ 12 billion this year,
- 14:54Speaker 1: Israel allegedly. Can you look up what amount of war
- 14:58Speaker 1: materials that we've given them, Trevin? United States has provided
- 15:05Speaker 1: significant military aid to Israel throughout 2025. Uh, The Trump administration,
- 15:10Speaker 1: which took office in January 2025, has approved nearly $ 12
- 15:13Speaker 1: billion in major foreign military sales to Israel. This includes
- 15:18Speaker 1: nearly a $ 3 billion arms sale. Does that mean we're
- 15:20Speaker 1: selling them to them?
- 15:21Speaker 2: We're selling part of them to them, and then we've
- 15:24Speaker 2: also given aid. Now, I voted against the offensive weapons
- 15:27Speaker 2: aid about last year, but we approved it. So some
- 15:31Speaker 2: of it is in aid. Some of it is in sales.
- 15:34Speaker 2: Trump is giving them 2,000-pound bombs that they can be using.
- 15:39Speaker 2: So here's, though, what I think that I'm hoping he
- 15:43Speaker 2: or others may be listening to this because your voice
- 15:45Speaker 2: really matters because you know a lot of people who
- 15:47Speaker 2: voted for him. And they voted for him because they
- 15:49Speaker 2: wanted American patriotism. They wanted to focus on building our
- 15:52Speaker 2: industrial base. They wanted us out of these wars. Donald
- 15:56Speaker 2: Trump can call Netanyahu and he says, enough. We're not
- 15:59Speaker 2: going to be giving you more offensive weapons anymore. to
- 16:03Speaker 2: kill more civilians in Gaza. But here's what I'm going
- 16:06Speaker 2: to do. I'm going to convene Saudi Arabia. I'm going
- 16:10Speaker 2: to convene Jordan.
- 16:11Speaker 1: I'm going to- What does convene mean, sorry?
- 16:12Speaker 2: Convene mean bring them together.
- 16:14Speaker 1: Okay.
- 16:14Speaker 2: Bring them together. That's it. We're going to get the
- 16:17Speaker 2: Arab states together. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, people in Palestine, Fatah, Israel,
- 16:24Speaker 2: the United States. And we're going to say we need
- 16:27Speaker 2: a new government in Gaza. It can't be Hamas. You know,
- 16:30Speaker 2: Hamas is a terrorist organization. We're going to get rid
- 16:34Speaker 2: of Hamas. And we're going to make sure that this
- 16:37Speaker 2: new government has Palestinian voices, but also has Saudi, Jordan,
- 16:42Speaker 2: Egypt part of it to make it secure so that
- 16:45Speaker 2: they don't attack Israel. Because Saudi doesn't want to attack Israel.
- 16:49Speaker 2: You know, he could win the Nobel Prize. You know,
- 16:51Speaker 2: he wants to always win the Nobel Prize.
- 16:53Speaker 1: Donald Trump?
- 16:53Speaker 2: Donald Trump could win the Nobel Prize.
- 16:54Speaker 1: How could he win it, do you think, Rob?
- 16:55Speaker 2: I think if he comes in and he says to Netanyahu, stop.
- 16:59Speaker 1: Stop this.
- 17:00Speaker 2: I'm actually the president who's going to bring peace. And
- 17:03Speaker 2: here's how we're going to do it. It's not just
- 17:05Speaker 2: going to be Israel, the United States and Palestine, because
- 17:07Speaker 2: we agree Hamas can't be anywhere running Gaza. I mean,
- 17:11Speaker 2: Hamas has called for the destruction of Israel. We have
- 17:14Speaker 2: to stand for Israel's right to exist as a Jewish
- 17:16Speaker 2: democratic state. I mean, that is a principle we have
- 17:20Speaker 2: to respect. But we're going to get Saudi Arabia.
- 17:23Speaker 1: And they have to respect Palestine's right to exist.
- 17:26Speaker 2: They have to respect Palestine's right to self-determination. and have
- 17:29Speaker 2: a Palestinian state in Gaza and in the West Bank.
- 17:32Speaker 2: And you can get those two states. And with land swaps,
- 17:36Speaker 2: you could actually make it that even a lot of
- 17:39Speaker 2: the settlers are still going to be able to stay
- 17:42Speaker 2: in some of the places. I mean, you could get
- 17:44Speaker 2: to a lot of the deal we know that needs
- 17:46Speaker 2: to happen. But Trump has a good relationship with the Saudis.
- 17:51Speaker 2: We have a good relationship with Jordan. We've got a
- 17:53Speaker 2: good relationship with Egypt. Get all of these countries on board.
- 17:57Speaker 2: And say, okay, what is the new Palestinian leadership going
- 18:00Speaker 2: to look like? Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, are you going to
- 18:03Speaker 2: guarantee- Qatar too. Qatar.
- 18:04Speaker 1: My boys over there. I was just over there, man.
- 18:07Speaker 1: They had us all dressed up like a bunch of
- 18:09Speaker 1: Ku Klux Klan.
- 18:09Speaker 2: You were in Qatar?
- 18:10Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 18:11Speaker 2: What were you doing in Qatar?
- 18:12Speaker 1: They had me come and perform for the troops. Wow.
- 18:14Speaker 1: It was really great. It was pretty special. But sorry,
- 18:17Speaker 1: I interrupted you just to get a joke in, but-
- 18:19Speaker 1: also was excited and had a great time there. They
- 18:22Speaker 1: really treated me very nice. People thought I was a spy.
- 18:24Speaker 1: I thought maybe they were going to.
- 18:25Speaker 2: Well, you could be part of this whole Middle East plan.
- 18:27Speaker 2: Maybe you'll go perform if they get a state there.
- 18:30Speaker 2: I mean, look, what bothers me is that we know
- 18:34Speaker 2: what we need to do.
- 18:35Speaker 1: Right. So why is Trump afraid? Is Donald Trump afraid
- 18:38Speaker 1: of Netanyahu? I don't understand that. Because Trump certainly feels
- 18:42Speaker 1: like he is a guy who- does not seem afraid
- 18:46Speaker 1: to say what he wants to say.
- 18:48Speaker 2: I don't think he, I don't know what it is.
- 18:50Speaker 2: Cause I, I, I want Trump to do the right thing.
- 18:53Speaker 2: Like I want him to start to end the war
- 18:56Speaker 2: in Gaza to actually figure out how we get peace there.
- 19:00Speaker 2: And I think he could, he could, if he picks
- 19:03Speaker 2: up the phone and he says, Netanyahu, you're done. Netanyahu
- 19:06Speaker 2: is going to stop the bombing. And then Netanyahu is
- 19:08Speaker 2: going to say, OK, but we got Hamas. I can't
- 19:10Speaker 2: stay here with Hamas. And Trump can say, OK, I'm
- 19:13Speaker 2: going to help you get rid of Hamas. But you
- 19:15Speaker 2: can't keep bombing and killing women and children. That's not
- 19:18Speaker 2: getting rid of Hamas.
- 19:19Speaker 1: Yeah, it's freaking crazy, dude. I mean, it's just like.
- 19:22Speaker 2: And so you get Egypt. You get Jordan. You get
- 19:24Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia. I call it the 23-state solution. You get
- 19:27Speaker 2: all of those Arab states.
- 19:28Speaker 1: Put Mississippi. Dude, I'll tell you this. We can give
- 19:32Speaker 1: Mississippi to Palestine. I've been saying that for 15 years.
- 19:35Speaker 1: Have them come over. Have Mississippi.
- 19:37Speaker 2: Have Mississippi?
- 19:38Speaker 1: Yeah. Have the Palestinian people come and move there if
- 19:40Speaker 1: they want.
- 19:40Speaker 2: Yeah, but they want Palestine, right?
- 19:41Speaker 1: I understand. And I do understand that. I was just
- 19:43Speaker 1: trying to give them something that– I think everybody could
- 19:46Speaker 1: you know because mississippi could use um an economic boom
- 19:50Speaker 1: you know they could use i think some uh you're.
- 19:52Speaker 2: For palestinian immigrants coming maybe.
- 19:54Speaker 1: Yeah well that's what i'm saying with palestinian with palestinian
- 19:57Speaker 1: immigrants coming it would just kind of like add a
- 19:59Speaker 1: new texture to that whole state i think it needs
- 20:01Speaker 1: like a rebirth of uh of thought you know they
- 20:04Speaker 1: have a lot of great arts there but i think they.
- 20:06Speaker 2: Had faulkner Oh, yeah.
- 20:07Speaker 1: They had some great– they had Eudora Welty. They had Faulkner.
- 20:10Speaker 1: They had Jackson Dart. I mean they've got some great
- 20:14Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman. I mean those are easy ones, some of them.
- 20:16Speaker 1: But no, I'm just saying if they had the Palestinians there,
- 20:18Speaker 1: it would be interesting. So I've just always thought that
- 20:22Speaker 1: that would be interesting.
- 20:22Speaker 2: But I think your voice on this really matters because
- 20:26Speaker 2: no one sees you as sort of like some campus
- 20:28Speaker 2: activist shutting down university buildings. You're talking to regular people.
- 20:33Speaker 2: You're talking to– people who are truck drivers and blue
- 20:36Speaker 2: collar workers. And you're saying, you know what? I'm always
- 20:39Speaker 2: for the little guy. From the stuff I've seen about you,
- 20:43Speaker 2: if there's like one Theo Vaughn political philosophy, it seems
- 20:46Speaker 2: like you're for the people who are being bullied. You're
- 20:49Speaker 2: for the people who are kind of shut out. And
- 20:51Speaker 2: that's how you're seeing this Palestinian issue. It's not because you're,
- 20:54Speaker 2: I mean, it's not Jewish or Palestinian or Muslim. It's like,
- 20:58Speaker 2: how can we not be for both people? And now
- 21:02Speaker 2: you're the most powerful country in the world. And a
- 21:04Speaker 2: lot of people, you know, supported Donald Trump. And he
- 21:08Speaker 2: has an opportunity to bring the suffering to the end
- 21:11Speaker 2: and make peace.
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- 23:40Speaker 1: your new idea, go to Shopify.com slash T-H-E-O and make
- 23:46Speaker 1: it happen. That's right. shopify.com slash Theo. You know what
- 23:52Speaker 1: I realized the other day? Cause I've been thinking a
- 23:54Speaker 1: lot about like voice, right? Yeah. Like what does it
- 23:57Speaker 1: mean to have a voice? And I don't mean like
- 23:59Speaker 1: me having a voice in the world, but just to
- 24:01Speaker 1: even have a sound that comes out of my throat,
- 24:02Speaker 1: that means something that's connected to my heart or to
- 24:05Speaker 1: my feelings or to my thoughts. Um, you know, and
- 24:09Speaker 1: it's just, it's, you know, it's a gift. It's interesting
- 24:12Speaker 1: to have. And then I, I, what it feels like
- 24:14Speaker 1: when you are afraid to speak, right? Like I feel
- 24:17Speaker 1: like my whole life when I was a kid, I
- 24:19Speaker 1: was just, I just, I wanted to have a voice
- 24:22Speaker 1: for myself. You know, I just never had a voice.
- 24:24Speaker 1: We were in pretty traumatic place when I was a kid.
- 24:27Speaker 1: And so I just never had, I couldn't even, I
- 24:29Speaker 1: didn't even have any feelings to put together to share
- 24:32Speaker 1: what I wanted to share. Right. So I think like, um,
- 24:36Speaker 1: Like I'll just, I'll always go for the underdog. I
- 24:39Speaker 1: think that's all it is. Dude, I will have my team.
- 24:41Speaker 1: That's kind of like your philosophy, right? Look, my team
- 24:44Speaker 1: will be in a series, right? A best of five.
- 24:47Speaker 1: And if my team goes up two to one, I'll
- 24:50Speaker 1: start cheering for the other team. I just, for some reason,
- 24:53Speaker 1: I always cheer for the underdog. You know, I grew
- 24:56Speaker 1: up in Philadelphia. It was the Rocky story, right? And
- 24:59Speaker 1: that's the American thing. Like Rocky is the underdog.
- 25:02Speaker 2: Right.
- 25:03Speaker 1: We're supposed to be the ones there to help. Right. Right.
- 25:05Speaker 1: We're supposed to be the ones there to help. And
- 25:06Speaker 1: if your country isn't even going to do that at
- 25:09Speaker 1: a level that's grandiose. Right. Then what what makes you
- 25:14Speaker 1: want to go home and do that at your own level?
- 25:16Speaker 1: You know, like what you'll you'll still do that, but
- 25:18Speaker 1: you won't do it in feeling that you are supported
- 25:22Speaker 1: by your country. And yeah, I don't want people to
- 25:24Speaker 1: go die over there. I don't think that it doesn't
- 25:27Speaker 1: feel right to me. And that's okay. Some people might
- 25:30Speaker 1: be like, well, you're not a political pundit. I don't
- 25:32Speaker 1: give a shit. But you know what? I don't care
- 25:34Speaker 1: if I am or not. I am a human being.
- 25:36Speaker 2: And you're a citizen.
- 25:37Speaker 1: And I am a citizen. And some people are like, well,
- 25:38Speaker 1: you're lucky to be a citizen. Yeah, but I'm a citizen.
- 25:41Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm a citizen. I
- 25:43Speaker 1: think the Native Americans should get things back. And you
- 25:45Speaker 1: know what?
- 25:45Speaker 2: Your voice hasn't been... I think part of the challenge
- 25:51Speaker 2: in politics is you get surrounded with so many of
- 25:54Speaker 2: these interest groups. You get surrounded by how you're going
- 25:58Speaker 2: to raise money. You get surrounded by all these foreign
- 26:01Speaker 2: policy thinkers.
- 26:02Speaker 1: Dude, we're working together. I didn't even realize it. Ro,
- 26:04Speaker 1: I hate to interrupt you, but right now, my question is, Ro,
- 26:09Speaker 1: one thing I like about you is I feel like
- 26:11Speaker 1: you're a black sheep. You take a lot of unpopular stances.
- 26:14Speaker 1: That's something I really admire. One of those is not
- 26:16Speaker 1: accepting lobby from PACs or PACs, we hear about them
- 26:20Speaker 1: a lot of times. Some of my listeners, you hear
- 26:22Speaker 1: about these PACs. It means political action committee, right? And
- 26:26Speaker 1: I'm reading this. Just give me a break, guys, real quick.
- 26:29Speaker 1: We are at a point, I believe, where a lot
- 26:30Speaker 1: of people are starting to see that neither party really
- 26:33Speaker 1: represents the people. That's the feeling that I'm hearing people say.
- 26:38Speaker 1: I've heard Candace Owens say it, and she's very much
- 26:42Speaker 1: been a kind of a Republican role model, I feel like,
- 26:44Speaker 1: or at least have some influence of that. I feel
- 26:47Speaker 1: like she's also kind of in a lane of her own.
- 26:50Speaker 1: Parties have been unable to keep businesses and lobbyists away
- 26:52Speaker 1: from politics. In 2025, lobbying was at an all-time high
- 26:56Speaker 1: of 4.4 billion. I believe that's a couple sites said
- 27:00Speaker 1: that online, the sites could be lying. How can we
- 27:04Speaker 1: know who is accepting lobby money? First of all, how
- 27:07Speaker 1: do we know that?
- 27:08Speaker 2: So first of all, take a guess how many lobbyists
- 27:11Speaker 2: there are in Washington right now, ballpark.
- 27:14Speaker 1: 12,000.
- 27:17Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 27:18Speaker 1: 10,000. That's pretty good. 10,000. They're hiding a couple thousand,
- 27:21Speaker 1: you know it.
- 27:21Speaker 2: 10,000. Think, there are 500 members of Congress.
- 27:26Speaker 1: 535, right?
- 27:27Speaker 2: Members of Congress. That's 20 to one, right? You play football,
- 27:29Speaker 2: like imagine you got 20 people, you're wide receiver, you
- 27:32Speaker 2: got 20 people covering you. Now, let me give you
- 27:35Speaker 2: a concrete example of how this stuff works. Pharma lobbyists, right?
- 27:39Speaker 2: Just big pharma. There are about 1,200 big pharma lobbyists.
- 27:43Speaker 2: So it's about Two and a half to one for
- 27:45Speaker 2: every member of Congress. I'm sure you know people who
- 27:50Speaker 2: want to get some drug, prescription drugs I'm talking about,
- 27:54Speaker 2: and it's too much money, right? And they skip it.
- 27:56Speaker 2: Do you know folks?
- 27:57Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, totally I do.
- 27:59Speaker 2: So Donald Trump, one of the good things he does
- 28:02Speaker 2: is he puts out an executive order and he says
- 28:05Speaker 2: Americans shouldn't pay more for any of these prescription drugs
- 28:09Speaker 2: than people in other parts of the world.
- 28:10Speaker 1: Right.
- 28:11Speaker 2: You know, I've had people who, like, go to a
- 28:13Speaker 2: foreign country to get the drug because they don't want
- 28:15Speaker 2: to pay them. They can't afford to pay the drugs here.
- 28:18Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. One night I'm hanging out with a girl, and,
- 28:20Speaker 1: you know, we've been on a couple dates. I thought
- 28:22Speaker 1: we were going to maybe smooch a little. It's 11 p.m.
- 28:25Speaker 1: She's like, I have to drive to Mexico to get Ozempic.
- 28:30Speaker 1: I'm not even joking. She's like, I have to drive
- 28:32Speaker 1: to Mexico to get Ozempic. And she's like, if I
- 28:34Speaker 1: leave now, the hours are best for driving there and back.
- 28:36Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, God.
- 28:38Speaker 2: The way to her heart was like getting her this drug.
- 28:40Speaker 1: I'm not riding with her, you know, but I definitely,
- 28:42Speaker 1: I gave her a little bit of gas money, you know,
- 28:44Speaker 1: because I hope to see her again.
- 28:45Speaker 2: But anyway. Anyway, it's crazy, right? I mean, we're paying
- 28:50Speaker 2: for all these drugs to be developed. You and I
- 28:52Speaker 2: pay the NIH to develop all these drugs. Then the
- 28:56Speaker 2: big pharma sells them at a profit of, To Americans.
- 29:00Speaker 2: And basically, the rest of the world gets these drugs
- 29:03Speaker 2: at a fraction of the cost.
- 29:04Speaker 1: Right. So we're subsidizing their cost over there.
- 29:06Speaker 2: We're subsidizing their cost. Now, someone could say, OK, Mexico
- 29:09Speaker 2: or some of these developing countries, fine, they should have
- 29:12Speaker 2: these drugs cheaper. But we're subsidizing Great Britain. We're subsidizing Japan.
- 29:17Speaker 2: We're subsidizing Europe. These are rich countries. We're subsidizing Switzerland.
- 29:21Speaker 2: So Donald Trump, one thing that I agree with, he
- 29:23Speaker 2: comes out and he says Americans shouldn't pay a higher
- 29:26Speaker 2: price than any other industrialized country. Yeah. I'm the first
- 29:30Speaker 2: congressperson actually to introduce his executive order as a law.
- 29:35Speaker 2: I said, okay, because the executive order, you know, the
- 29:38Speaker 2: pharma just will sue it and tie it up in
- 29:40Speaker 2: court and nothing's going to happen.
- 29:42Speaker 1: Yeah, because he had another one with price transparency, right? Exactly.
- 29:45Speaker 1: Where it was like all the prices of if you
- 29:49Speaker 1: go get an MRI, whatever it is, it needs to
- 29:51Speaker 1: be like a menu. Like you go to McDonald's, you
- 29:53Speaker 1: know how much it costs. Right. Because without a menu,
- 29:55Speaker 1: they can just charge you later whatever they want, right?
- 29:57Speaker 1: Which is part of the whole bait and switch of
- 29:59Speaker 1: the insurance system as part of the whole shell game.
- 30:03Speaker 1: That was another executive order, but that hasn't been enacted.
- 30:07Speaker 1: How do we get these things to actually happen? Why
- 30:11Speaker 1: do they stop it at executive order? Because there's always
- 30:13Speaker 1: this pomp and circumstance. It's an executive order, but it
- 30:17Speaker 1: never gets followed through.
- 30:18Speaker 2: Because it gets tied up in courts and they get
- 30:21Speaker 2: sued and they say, well, Congress didn't authorize it. So look,
- 30:25Speaker 2: I actually give Trump's on credit for putting it out there,
- 30:28Speaker 2: but he knows, everyone knows, it can't actually make a
- 30:31Speaker 2: difference until it becomes a law.
- 30:33Speaker 1: And who sues it? The pharma companies?
- 30:35Speaker 2: The pharma companies sue it. They've got a whole industry
- 30:39Speaker 2: of lawyers, of lobbyists, and they come out and they
- 30:43Speaker 2: sue them. And by the way, they're making record profits.
- 30:45Speaker 2: And they say, oh, we need this money to do
- 30:48Speaker 2: research and innovation. Give me a break. They have those profits.
- 30:52Speaker 2: They're buying back their stock. They're giving out dividends. Their
- 30:56Speaker 2: executives are making tons of money.
- 30:58Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. They're buying freaking Corvettes, dude. They're doing that.
- 31:01Speaker 1: But they are. They're all probably live Corvettes, and they
- 31:03Speaker 1: don't care. That's the thing. They don't care. So how
- 31:06Speaker 1: do we stop that system, right? First of all, do
- 31:09Speaker 1: you believe that system can actually be stopped?
- 31:12Speaker 2: I do. I do, and I'll give you two examples why,
- 31:16Speaker 2: because we did it with big tobacco. You remember that
- 31:18Speaker 2: when tobacco basically had Washington, D.C. bought, and then there
- 31:22Speaker 2: was a campaign that said, free kids from tobacco.
- 31:26Speaker 1: Bring that up. I want to see a picture of that.
- 31:28Speaker 1: Some kid would smoke if they let them. They used to.
- 31:33Speaker 2: There it is.
- 31:35Speaker 1: The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, an American nonprofit membership organization
- 31:39Speaker 1: established in 1995 with Bill Novelli as its first president. Okay,
- 31:43Speaker 1: so that happened in 1995, and that had an effect?
- 31:46Speaker 2: Well, it was them. It was grassroots organizing. There was
- 31:49Speaker 2: a hearing in front of Congress. They brought in all
- 31:52Speaker 2: these tobacco executives. And basically the tobacco executives are seen
- 31:56Speaker 2: lying to the American public saying, yeah, we know that
- 31:59Speaker 2: this stuff is addictive. And that had a huge impact.
- 32:02Speaker 2: There was laws that got passed that said, you can't
- 32:06Speaker 2: sell tobacco cigarettes to kids. You have to disclose the
- 32:11Speaker 2: addictive quality. So we stood up to big tobacco. We
- 32:14Speaker 2: also did it one other time in this country famously.
- 32:17Speaker 2: I don't know if you know what DDT is.
- 32:19Speaker 1: DDT, yeah, definitely. It's in the yard, brother. That's what
- 32:22Speaker 1: they say. It's in the grass, right?
- 32:24Speaker 2: You know, it's the fertilizers. And there was this woman,
- 32:26Speaker 2: Rachel Carson, she exposed that it was hurting your health.
- 32:29Speaker 2: It was hurting the birds. It was hurting the ecosystem.
- 32:33Speaker 2: And that led to Congress saying, no, we're going to
- 32:36Speaker 2: ban DDT for a lot of different uses. We got
- 32:39Speaker 2: to do the same thing in standing up with pharma.
- 32:41Speaker 2: How much money does pharma spend? $ 380 million a year.
- 32:46Speaker 1: Year.
- 32:46Speaker 2: In lobbying? In lobbying.
- 32:47Speaker 1: Or in commercials, you mean?
- 32:48Speaker 2: Just in lobbying.
- 32:49Speaker 1: Now, does lobbying include commercials? That means paying to congressmen
- 32:52Speaker 1: and reps.
- 32:53Speaker 2: That's paying to congresspeople and reps. That's like money that
- 32:55Speaker 2: is going to congressmen, to representatives, to state legislators. So
- 33:00Speaker 2: I introduced this bill, right, saying, okay, let's do what
- 33:03Speaker 2: Donald Trump wants. Let's do what Bernie Sanders wants. Like,
- 33:06Speaker 2: how can we disagree on this? Let's take it to
- 33:08Speaker 2: pharma so Americans don't pay more. I get two Republicans
- 33:11Speaker 2: who co-sponsor it, Representative Luna and And represented Biggs.
- 33:16Speaker 1: Bring him up. Bring up Luna and Biggs. First of all,
- 33:19Speaker 1: and if that's not an animated series, I don't even know.
- 33:23Speaker 1: It sounds also like it could be a rap group,
- 33:25Speaker 1: Luna and Biggs. We got to shout him. So that's
- 33:27Speaker 1: Andy Biggs. He's a legitimate guy?
- 33:29Speaker 2: He's a legitimate guy. I mean, look, I mean, disagree
- 33:31Speaker 2: on things, but, like, he's willing to stand up for
- 33:34Speaker 2: what he believes.
- 33:35Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
- 33:35Speaker 2: Representative Luna, she's willing to stand up.
- 33:39Speaker 1: Oh, dude, I was just looking at her online yesterday.
- 33:41Speaker 1: I like her. I mean, I like what she says.
- 33:45Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? I like her energy.
- 33:48Speaker 2: She has an independence. And I got a few of
- 33:51Speaker 2: the Democrats to be on board with this. Obviously, they
- 33:53Speaker 2: don't want Americans being overcharged for prescription drugs. I mean,
- 33:57Speaker 2: this was part of Bernie's whole campaign.
- 33:59Speaker 1: And now people are, are there also people telling you
- 34:01Speaker 1: that they got on board or did it come down
- 34:03Speaker 1: to a vote? How did it end up?
- 34:04Speaker 2: So right now we don't even have a, we don't
- 34:06Speaker 2: have a vote. We should have every single person in
- 34:08Speaker 2: Congress co-sponsoring this. The way Congress works is you got
- 34:11Speaker 2: to get to about a hundred people to co-sponsor it.
- 34:14Speaker 2: And then the speaker calls up a vote on the issue.
- 34:17Speaker 2: But because you got big pharma's lobbying money, well, they,
- 34:21Speaker 2: they're so cynical. They don't, They don't try to stop–
- 34:26Speaker 2: convince people to vote against it. They try to stop
- 34:29Speaker 2: the congresspeople from– the speaker from bringing it for a vote.
- 34:32Speaker 1: So they would like– they would invest in Mike Johnson?
- 34:35Speaker 2: They'll invest not just in Mike Johnson.
- 34:37Speaker 1: They'll invest– Is that libel or slander for saying that? No,
- 34:41Speaker 1: I mean it's just– They would lobby with– they would
- 34:42Speaker 1: try to lobby Mike Johnson.
- 34:44Speaker 2: They'll try to lobby Mike Johnson. But there's this quote
- 34:46Speaker 2: that I love from Dr. King. He said, attack the
- 34:50Speaker 2: evil system, not the individuals who happen to be caught
- 34:54Speaker 2: up in the evil system.
- 34:55Speaker 1: OK, got it.
- 34:57Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some egregious cases. The problem is the system
- 35:00Speaker 2: is rotten. And they are pouring money into different campaigns,
- 35:06Speaker 2: into different lobbyists, and basically are not going to allow
- 35:10Speaker 2: a vote on this because they know if there's a
- 35:13Speaker 2: vote and someone votes against Donald Trump and against Trump,
- 35:18Speaker 2: Lowering prescription drugs, the American people will be furious.
- 35:20Speaker 1: Are going to know who they are.
- 35:21Speaker 2: Are going to know who they are. Right.
- 35:22Speaker 1: And then we can call them out by name.
- 35:24Speaker 2: So they just don't want anyone to do it. And
- 35:26Speaker 2: this is how– this is the game. This is why
- 35:28Speaker 2: we don't get Medicare for all, why we don't have
- 35:30Speaker 2: health insurance. Health insurance is not that we– we haven't
- 35:32Speaker 2: had a vote on Medicare for all. This is why
- 35:35Speaker 2: we still have fossil fuel subsidies. We haven't had a
- 35:38Speaker 2: vote to get rid of fossil fuel subsidies. This is
- 35:41Speaker 2: why we still have a defense budget that is over
- 35:43Speaker 2: a trillion dollars. We don't get votes on cutting out
- 35:47Speaker 2: the excessive contracts. I mean, the game is to stop
- 35:51Speaker 2: the vote. And so it, let me ask you, the
- 35:54Speaker 2: thing I wanted to ask you actually the most in
- 35:56Speaker 2: this conversation, do you know people who are just like, yeah,
- 35:59Speaker 2: I'm done with politics because I don't think I can
- 36:00Speaker 2: make a difference? You know, it's just.
- 36:02Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I'm saying that's what I'm telling. That's what
- 36:04Speaker 1: I've noticed in the past few months on some of
- 36:07Speaker 1: my favorite shows that I listened to and watch people
- 36:10Speaker 1: are like, oh, I see now neither. Nobody has our side.
- 36:15Speaker 1: Neither one of these groups, it feels like have our side.
- 36:19Speaker 1: You feel like it's just all these articles. It's like, well,
- 36:21Speaker 1: here's an article about this is going to happen. And
- 36:23Speaker 1: then people get in an uproar about it, but nobody,
- 36:26Speaker 1: it's almost like it's all algorithm perfectly to the amount
- 36:29Speaker 1: of our attention span where it just fades out of, uh,
- 36:34Speaker 1: like the, the zeitgeist of discussion and zeitgeist just means, uh,
- 36:38Speaker 1: like the circle of discussion at the moment, I think. Um,
- 36:42Speaker 1: But so it's just like, it just fades. And then
- 36:44Speaker 1: the next ball hits the air. You're like, oh, look
- 36:46Speaker 1: at that one. That's it. Transgender something, you know, that one.
- 36:49Speaker 1: Then it's like, oh, racism again. Here I am, you know,
- 36:52Speaker 1: forget about me. And then, but it's the same after
- 36:56Speaker 1: a while. You just like, I've seen this show so
- 36:58Speaker 1: many times. I think even our DNA is sick. So
- 37:02Speaker 1: I think you're having newborn children that are like, this
- 37:04Speaker 1: is fucking bullshit. Because even I think it's in our
- 37:06Speaker 1: DNA now how long the charade has been going on.
- 37:09Speaker 1: And that's where I see people are like at a
- 37:11Speaker 1: point where they're just at a loss. How can that
- 37:16Speaker 1: be stopped? How can that sort of thing actually be stopped?
- 37:20Speaker 1: Can we do anything or does it have to fall
- 37:22Speaker 1: on our representatives?
- 37:23Speaker 2: The representatives aren't going to change things. And this is
- 37:26Speaker 2: this is my biggest concern for the country that people
- 37:28Speaker 2: keep getting disillusioned. They're like, I can't change anything. I'm
- 37:32Speaker 2: just going to focus on my own life. Every two years,
- 37:35Speaker 2: every four years, you get congresspeople, presidents saying they're going
- 37:38Speaker 2: to do something. They do some executive order. It gets
- 37:41Speaker 2: tied up in courts. Big pharma blocks any reform. And
- 37:45Speaker 2: what's the point, right? And then the problem is that
- 37:48Speaker 2: the less people get engaged, the more power these lobbyists
- 37:51Speaker 2: and moneyed interests have because they don't want the engagement. No.
- 37:55Speaker 2: They're perfectly fine with the system. And they're like, okay,
- 38:00Speaker 2: we will keep supporting our– members of Congress and presidents
- 38:04Speaker 2: every four years, they'll run on change. Nothing actually changes
- 38:07Speaker 2: and let people get more and more dissolution. That's what's
- 38:10Speaker 2: going on.
- 38:10Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I mean, look, I believe that we've entered
- 38:12Speaker 1: like a privatized communism. That's what I say a lot.
- 38:14Speaker 1: That's exactly what it seems like we're in.
- 38:17Speaker 2: Right.
- 38:17Speaker 1: And you're sitting here telling me that our vote doesn't
- 38:20Speaker 1: even really matter. So yeah, people are getting dissolution. Like, like,
- 38:23Speaker 1: but what do we do?
- 38:24Speaker 2: So, but that's why I gave that example of tobacco
- 38:27Speaker 2: and DDT when the country Actually mobilizes. When they're like,
- 38:32Speaker 2: we're done with this.
- 38:33Speaker 1: What do we need to do? Buy a Jeep or whatever?
- 38:35Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the things you do is
- 38:37Speaker 2: look at who's taking money from these interest groups.
- 38:42Speaker 1: Okay. Is there a site that we can look at
- 38:45Speaker 1: that's reported?
- 38:45Speaker 2: OpenSecrets.org. OpenSecrets.org.
- 38:48Speaker 1: Crack that big open, cat. I know Chuck Schumer's on it.
- 38:55Speaker 2: And everyone is.
- 38:56Speaker 1: Is that slander or not? Yeah.
- 38:58Speaker 2: I think you're, I think you're pretty, you're well, not
- 39:02Speaker 2: even close to the line.
- 39:03Speaker 1: We're not? No, we're not.
- 39:04Speaker 2: Oh, good. Oh yeah.
- 39:05Speaker 1: That little money monkey's taking something, but you can find
- 39:08Speaker 1: it on open secret site or you can find out
- 39:10Speaker 1: how much each person gets and from where.
- 39:12Speaker 2: You can find out how much each. So I don't
- 39:13Speaker 2: take any PAC money, right? I don't take any lobbyist money,
- 39:16Speaker 2: but you can even find out individuals aggregated, how much
- 39:19Speaker 2: they're getting. And then If they're getting money, fine, but
- 39:22Speaker 2: then look at their voting record. Are they voting on–
- 39:30Speaker 2: Big Pharma? Are they voting against the big insurance companies?
- 39:36Speaker 2: So first is just being aware. But the second thing
- 39:39Speaker 2: is we've got to demand that people have a vote
- 39:44Speaker 2: on getting lower prescription drug prices.
- 39:46Speaker 1: Who do we ask that for? From Mike Johnson?
- 39:48Speaker 2: Mike Johnson. He's from Louisiana. He's from Louisiana.
- 39:51Speaker 1: So I'll say it right now, Mike Johnson, why don't
- 39:54Speaker 1: you put the vote up? I mean, everybody wants this.
- 39:57Speaker 1: Everybody is tired of paying, of watching people.
- 40:02Speaker 1: Medical debt's the number one cause of bankruptcy in America.
- 40:04Speaker 1: We know that. It's bipartisan, right? It means both partisans
- 40:08Speaker 1: like it.
- 40:08Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, Trump, it's Trump's bill. I mean, Trump's
- 40:11Speaker 2: executive bill.
- 40:12Speaker 1: Just help us, dude. Give us something. You know what
- 40:14Speaker 1: I'm saying?
- 40:15Speaker 2: Two things he could do a vote on. One is
- 40:17Speaker 2: stopping the war in Iran. I mean, Massey and my bill,
- 40:20Speaker 2: he has to give us a vote on it unless
- 40:22Speaker 2: he plays games. And then two, let's just focus on
- 40:26Speaker 2: big pharma, getting big pharma.
- 40:28Speaker 1: Yeah, let's start with one lobby. Let's start with one
- 40:30Speaker 1: big lobby. I think it's just, it's like, give us something, man.
- 40:34Speaker 1: I was like, cause you know what I'm saying? He's
- 40:36Speaker 1: from Louisiana. So like that, Louisiana is a state where
- 40:39Speaker 1: it's like, it's mostly about like people, right? Peer to peer.
- 40:42Speaker 1: It's like, it's like the state, it doesn't have a
- 40:45Speaker 1: lot of, I don't think we have one top, we
- 40:49Speaker 1: don't have one fortune 500 company. I don't think in
- 40:51Speaker 1: the whole state, maybe Entergy, but I think that they left.
- 40:53Speaker 1: So we're a low-income state, but the one thing that
- 40:56Speaker 1: we do have is each other's backs, right? And I
- 40:59Speaker 1: just can't imagine that Mr. Johnson wouldn't bring this to
- 41:03Speaker 1: the floor. To the floor, is that it?
- 41:06Speaker 2: To the floor, yeah.
- 41:07Speaker 1: Bring it to the floor, Mike. You know what I'm saying, bro?
- 41:12Speaker 1: People are sick. People are sick, man. People are dying.
- 41:15Speaker 1: You don't want to bring it to the floor? I
- 41:17Speaker 1: think that's fucking bullshit. Now, if you are bringing it
- 41:19Speaker 1: to the floor and Rose not telling me the truth,
- 41:21Speaker 1: then I'm sorry, Mike, right? I'm sorry, dude.
- 41:24Speaker 2: And I got a good relationship with Mike Johnson.
- 41:26Speaker 1: Mike's awesome.
- 41:27Speaker 2: But someone has just got to say, okay.
- 41:29Speaker 1: He's a cool guy. I'm done with it. But he's
- 41:31Speaker 1: got keys to the janitor's closet and it's time to
- 41:33Speaker 1: fucking get the, it's time to get the broom out
- 41:35Speaker 1: and sweep this shit out from under the rug. That's
- 41:38Speaker 1: what I feel like.
- 41:38Speaker 2: And you know what will happen? If there's one time
- 41:41Speaker 2: we take on one of these lobbying groups, whether it's
- 41:43Speaker 2: big pharma.
- 41:44Speaker 1: The rest will get scared. Big insurance, big.
- 41:46Speaker 2: The rest get scared. And it's going to give hope
- 41:48Speaker 2: to this country. Yeah, my voice matters. Yeah, I can
- 41:51Speaker 2: get involved. Yeah, I can bring change. I mean, we
- 41:55Speaker 2: have been voting for change in this country since Barack Obama.
- 41:58Speaker 2: Every four years, every two years, like kick him out.
- 42:00Speaker 2: Let's try someone else.
- 42:02Speaker 1: And no one. Yeah, we put in a mixed guy.
- 42:05Speaker 1: You know, it's like, damn, we got an Indian guy
- 42:07Speaker 1: showing up.
- 42:08Speaker 3: They're trying everything. They're even trying the Indian guy. I mean,
- 42:12Speaker 3: you know, the country is like, who do we need?
- 42:15Speaker 3: They don't care about Indian black woman. They're just like,
- 42:20Speaker 3: get me someone who's going to actually bring change.
- 42:23Speaker 1: It's like, give me somebody with some balls. That's one
- 42:25Speaker 1: reason why I support a lot of trans stuff. Cause
- 42:27Speaker 1: I'm like, and maybe one of these women will have
- 42:30Speaker 1: enough balls on them to fucking get us to where
- 42:32Speaker 1: we need to be. Like if, if that's where we're at,
- 42:35Speaker 1: where we have to attach balls to an emotional sense
- 42:38Speaker 1: of empathy that a lot of times in a woman,
- 42:40Speaker 1: and that's who we need to get us over this
- 42:41Speaker 1: hill of bullshit that we keep climbing up. then maybe
- 42:45Speaker 1: that's what we need, you know? And you know what?
- 42:46Speaker 2: It struck me when you said Louisiana doesn't have one
- 42:48Speaker 2: Fortune 500 company. You know, I represent Silicon Valley. You know,
- 42:52Speaker 2: in my district.
- 42:53Speaker 1: Hold on.
- 42:54Speaker 2: You know, my district. Hold on.
- 42:56Speaker 1: Dude, we're about to go in.
- 42:59Speaker 2: All right.
- 43:00Speaker 1: You and I spoke on the phone about, this is crazy, bro.
- 43:03Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 43:04Speaker 1: Did you read this somehow?
- 43:05Speaker 2: Which?
- 43:06Speaker 1: Are you that Oz mentalist guy?
- 43:07Speaker 2: I mean.
- 43:11Speaker 1: No, you're not.
- 43:11Speaker 2: I'm not.
- 43:12Speaker 1: Sorry.
- 43:12Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 43:13Speaker 1: It said, and I'm sorry, I'm going back to my notes.
- 43:15Speaker 1: And thank you, man, for talking about this stuff with me, man.
- 43:17Speaker 1: It even helps just like, one thing I noticed, even
- 43:19Speaker 1: we spoke on the phone the other night, man. And
- 43:21Speaker 1: it just like, after I got on the phone with you,
- 43:23Speaker 1: I felt a little better. I was like, at least
- 43:25Speaker 1: I have somebody to talk about this with. Dude, yesterday
- 43:28Speaker 1: I'm leaving this restaurant and a guy comes up to me.
- 43:31Speaker 1: He's missing a tooth or he was missing one. And
- 43:35Speaker 1: he was like, hey man, thanks for speaking up about
- 43:38Speaker 1: Palestine stuff. And I was like, I said, well, I don't, honestly,
- 43:41Speaker 1: I don't know a ton about it. It's just kind
- 43:42Speaker 1: of how I feel. And he goes, well, I think
- 43:44Speaker 1: a lot of people are just afraid to speak up.
- 43:46Speaker 1: They're afraid if they speak against Israel that they're going
- 43:49Speaker 1: to be labeled an anti-Semite. And I was like, oh, no.
- 43:52Speaker 1: I said, I understand that, but I think that's just
- 43:55Speaker 1: a verbal trap. I said, you can– like I have
- 43:59Speaker 1: tons of Jewish friends that I talk to every day,
- 44:01Speaker 1: and I don't think what Yet and Yahoo is doing
- 44:04Speaker 1: is good.
- 44:04Speaker 2: But anyway– 90% of the foreign policy blob that has
- 44:12Speaker 2: gotten us into all these wars and that has compromised
- 44:16Speaker 2: our humanity. There's a reason the founders wanted Congress to
- 44:20Speaker 2: be making decisions about war and peace. They trusted the
- 44:22Speaker 2: American people, right? Like the kings of the past, when
- 44:26Speaker 2: the founders were there, they would just do wars for
- 44:28Speaker 2: their own glory. And the American people were really, the
- 44:32Speaker 2: founders were really suspicious of that. And so they said,
- 44:34Speaker 2: you know what? We actually trust the farmers and the
- 44:37Speaker 2: people in factories and ordinary Americans not to get us
- 44:41Speaker 2: into all this stuff. And they trusted people like you, Theo.
- 44:45Speaker 2: And the problem is that your voice has gotten out
- 44:48Speaker 2: of Washington and not central to it. But now we've
- 44:52Speaker 2: got all these podcasts and they can't ignore you. So
- 44:55Speaker 2: good for you to try to take back citizen voices.
- 44:57Speaker 2: That's what this country was supposed to be.
- 45:00Speaker 1: Well, yeah, thanks, man. I can't, sometimes I'm like, what
- 45:02Speaker 1: the fuck do I have to do with anything, dude?
- 45:04Speaker 1: That's a shit that like, I'm like, good God.
- 45:06Speaker 2: You're a citizen.
- 45:07Speaker 1: Right, now that I agree with. Who hasn't been corrupted?
- 45:09Speaker 1: But then you're just shocked when you're like, this me? Like, it's,
- 45:13Speaker 1: I think it just always blows my mind.
- 45:16Speaker 2: I think the test in politics is like pretty simple.
- 45:18Speaker 2: There are two basic tests to politics. Do you believe
- 45:21Speaker 2: that the American people are smarter and wiser and have
- 45:25Speaker 2: good values? Or do you believe in like a bunch
- 45:27Speaker 2: of experts and elites? Like I fundamentally believe like if
- 45:29Speaker 2: we just allowed and listened to people, normal people, we'd
- 45:33Speaker 2: be much better off in this country. And the second
- 45:36Speaker 2: is like do you love and believe in this country?
- 45:38Speaker 2: And I do. I think we're a good country. I
- 45:39Speaker 2: think we're the good guys. Most Americans want to be
- 45:42Speaker 2: the good guys. And like we've gotten away from that
- 45:45Speaker 2: because we've got so many intermediate moneyed interests, lobbying interests,
- 45:50Speaker 2: PhD foreign policy experts who are corrupting the process.
- 45:55Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. They're corrupt, man. They're bought and paid for.
- 45:57Speaker 1: They're spies. They're spies. And the sick part is to me,
- 46:02Speaker 1: they're just killing themselves. They're killing the future of their
- 46:06Speaker 1: children's imagination. Think of all the little things that you
- 46:09Speaker 1: are hampering, but then I guess, you know, money, you know,
- 46:14Speaker 1: when you see things happen with money and it's hard to, to,
- 46:18Speaker 1: to prevent. So like you said, don't point at the person,
- 46:21Speaker 1: try and point at the overall issue. Um, But I
- 46:24Speaker 1: love that opensecret.org or com.
- 46:27Speaker 2: Opensecrets.org. They can do an analysis on everyone. They can
- 46:30Speaker 2: do it on me. They can do it– and it's
- 46:32Speaker 2: not like people– there's no one who's perfect in American politics.
- 46:36Speaker 1: Let's look at Mike Johnson.
- 46:37Speaker 2: All right.
- 46:38Speaker 1: I'll look at him right now. He's not going to
- 46:39Speaker 1: be happy about it. I'm sorry, Mike. He's a good man.
- 46:41Speaker 2: He's a man of faith. But like the whole point
- 46:44Speaker 2: is like maybe he ends up– actually putting this for
- 46:46Speaker 2: a vote. I mean, that would be saved, but like.
- 46:49Speaker 1: All these packs. Imagine being fucking Paul Revere. You know
- 46:52Speaker 1: what I'm saying? That's what he has a chance to
- 46:54Speaker 1: be because then we could all hold these people like you,
- 46:57Speaker 1: you fucking vote for this or you will never be
- 47:01Speaker 1: back in this thing again.
- 47:02Speaker 2: Seriously.
- 47:03Speaker 1: I think that's what people can do. Why doesn't open
- 47:05Speaker 1: secrets have an app that makes it really easy? Is
- 47:07Speaker 1: it very easy to interface for people to be able
- 47:10Speaker 1: to navigate the how to find out who gets what
- 47:12Speaker 1: and whatever? It's pretty easy.
- 47:14Speaker 2: You can do it like that. I would look at
- 47:15Speaker 2: two things. One, how much money do they get from PACs?
- 47:18Speaker 2: Which are the PACs? How much money do they get
- 47:19Speaker 2: from lobbyists? And what are the industry groups? Now, if
- 47:24Speaker 2: they're taking money and they're still voting against those groups, fine.
- 47:28Speaker 2: But what raises red flags is when they're taking money
- 47:32Speaker 2: and they're not bringing something for a vote or they're
- 47:35Speaker 2: voting with those industry groups.
- 47:37Speaker 1: Right. This says top contributors for 2022-23 for Mr. Johnson,
- 47:44Speaker 1: American-Israel Public Affairs Committee. And that gets to the vote
- 47:47Speaker 1: on Iran, right? That's AIPAC, right?
- 47:49Speaker 2: That's AIPAC. And like Massey and I have shown independence
- 47:53Speaker 2: on that. So, OK, bring this vote so we don't
- 47:56Speaker 2: get into war on Iran or and don't be beholden
- 48:00Speaker 2: to groups who are telling you, no, no, no. Let's
- 48:02Speaker 2: just go along with Netanyahu and strike Iran.
- 48:05Speaker 1: It's fucking it's absolutely crazy. And you know what the
- 48:09Speaker 1: craziest thing is, is that we've had Thomas Massie's schedule
- 48:12Speaker 1: to come in for like a month, right?
- 48:14Speaker 2: He's great. He's one of the smartest members of Congress.
- 48:17Speaker 1: He's a maverick. That's what I like. I think you
- 48:18Speaker 1: and him both are mavericks. That's one thing that I
- 48:20Speaker 1: admire about you is that you make choices that feel
- 48:22Speaker 1: like your own, right? and the odds that you guys
- 48:25Speaker 1: have a build together. And then you're here today and
- 48:28Speaker 1: he's coming tomorrow.
- 48:29Speaker 2: So is he coming tomorrow? That's awesome.
- 48:31Speaker 1: I wanted to put you on the same day. So
- 48:32Speaker 1: you at least get to say, Hey, but maybe, maybe
- 48:34Speaker 1: in the future.
- 48:34Speaker 2: We've done stuff. We've done a lot of stuff together.
- 48:36Speaker 2: We both have like people in our own parties who
- 48:39Speaker 2: get upset. Cause we, take stances that are independent. We
- 48:42Speaker 2: work across the aisle. But isn't that what Congress is
- 48:44Speaker 2: supposed to be like? I mean, when you have a
- 48:46Speaker 2: conversation with your buddies, do you always agree with like
- 48:50Speaker 2: three of them and then have three of the others
- 48:52Speaker 2: always disagree?
- 48:53Speaker 1: It's like so irrational.
- 48:56Speaker 2: Usually like you'll agree with someone on one thing and
- 48:58Speaker 2: you'll disagree on something else. And yet in Congress, it's
- 49:01Speaker 2: like you got these two teams and they're always supposed
- 49:03Speaker 2: to be with their own parties. And that's not how
- 49:06Speaker 2: people actually are in real life. They want people who
- 49:08Speaker 2: just think for themselves.
- 49:09Speaker 1: I agree. And the craziest part is they're on two teams,
- 49:12Speaker 1: but they should be playing for the same group, right?
- 49:16Speaker 2: Team America.
- 49:17Speaker 1: Yes. And the fact that there it's like it always
- 49:20Speaker 1: feels the craziest part is it feels like it's you
- 49:23Speaker 1: as a citizen against your own against. That's what it
- 49:27Speaker 1: feels like now. It doesn't feel like this person. It
- 49:30Speaker 1: feels like that in the voting, like they're going to.
- 49:31Speaker 1: And then it feels like it just changes once they
- 49:34Speaker 1: get over that hill. You never know. see them again.
- 49:38Speaker 1: Mike Johnson's a Louisiana boy and I think that he'll
- 49:40Speaker 1: do the right thing, man. But I could help keep
- 49:44Speaker 1: tabs on who votes for the right thing that they're
- 49:47Speaker 1: supposed to vote for because it's unbelievable. We are literally,
- 49:53Speaker 1: it's still DDT, but it's prescription drugs and we're killing
- 49:57Speaker 1: our own people. This show is sponsored by Liquid IV.
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- 52:19Speaker 1: E O. Okay. So you and I spoke on the
- 52:23Speaker 1: phone about the tech lobby, right? And that was something
- 52:26Speaker 1: that I had never even heard the term before the
- 52:29Speaker 1: tech lobby. Never heard of it. Your district in California, um,
- 52:33Speaker 1: Because you're a Democratic congressman, right?
- 52:35Speaker 2: Correct.
- 52:36Speaker 1: From California? Yeah. Your district is home to five companies
- 52:39Speaker 1: worth over $ 1 trillion. Yeah. That includes Apple, Google, Nvidia, Tesla,
- 52:43Speaker 1: and Broadcom, while half the country is deindustrialized and dependent.
- 52:50Speaker 1: You guys are– you're in part of a– you represent
- 52:54Speaker 1: a very special district.
- 52:55Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 52:56Speaker 1: How big is that tech lobby? Who are the biggest players?
- 53:00Speaker 1: And are there multiple tech lobbies fighting against each other? Yeah.
- 53:04Speaker 2: Well, first, let me just say that part of the
- 53:07Speaker 2: problem in this country is that we've got $ 14 trillion
- 53:10Speaker 2: in my district and five companies over a trillion dollars.
- 53:14Speaker 2: And Louisiana doesn't have a single company in the Fortune 500. Like,
- 53:17Speaker 2: how did we allow this to happen in America? where
- 53:20Speaker 2: all the wealth is piling up in Silicon.
- 53:21Speaker 1: Valley and New York. Oh, and one, sorry. There are
- 53:23Speaker 1: two Fortune 500 companies headquartered in Louisiana, Entergy and Lumen Technologies.
- 53:27Speaker 1: And I'm sorry about that, guys.
- 53:28Speaker 2: But even that, right? You got two companies and you
- 53:31Speaker 2: got $ 5 trillion companies in one district. And a lot
- 53:33Speaker 2: of what we've got to figure out is all these
- 53:35Speaker 2: places like Johnstown, Pennsylvania, Lorain, Ohio, Downriver, Michigan, places totally
- 53:41Speaker 2: hollowed out. You go there and there's 30% hotel occupancy.
- 53:45Speaker 2: And then they're looking at Silicon Valley making more money
- 53:47Speaker 2: than any time in human history in the world. Like
- 53:50Speaker 2: how in America did we allow this to happen?
- 53:52Speaker 1: It's crazy.
- 53:53Speaker 2: It's sad. It's sad and it's unconscionable. But is there
- 53:57Speaker 2: a tech lobby? Yeah, there's a tech lobby. Let me
- 54:00Speaker 2: tell you one of the things that's been in the
- 54:01Speaker 2: news that I know you've discussed. Palantir, right? And the
- 54:06Speaker 2: contracts that they're getting, 150. $ 13 million to create this
- 54:10Speaker 2: database on Americans. And I, you know, I know you
- 54:14Speaker 2: asked someone.
- 54:15Speaker 1: Yeah, I did. I asked JD Vance about Palantir because
- 54:18Speaker 1: I'm scared of it, right?
- 54:19Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 54:20Speaker 1: This is just on my thing. That's so crazy, dude.
- 54:22Speaker 1: We are like, this is bananas. I asked JD Vance
- 54:25Speaker 1: about Palantir because I'm scared of it. I felt like
- 54:27Speaker 1: he gave kind of a political answer to me, right?
- 54:29Speaker 1: Which is no judgment. I did. That's what I felt like.
- 54:34Speaker 1: I want our listeners to know why I'm concerned. Well,
- 54:39Speaker 1: one of the reasons is that Palantir got a $ 795
- 54:41Speaker 1: million contract with the U.S. Army for the MAVEN smart system,
- 54:46Speaker 1: which is using artificial intelligence tools for data fusion and
- 54:50Speaker 1: target identification. And then a $ 30 million contract from the U.S.
- 54:54Speaker 1: Immigration and Customs Enforcement to develop an operating system that
- 54:58Speaker 1: identifies undocumented immigrants and tracks self-deportations. So one of the
- 55:03Speaker 1: things that's going on is that it feels like to
- 55:06Speaker 1: me that they are asking Palantir or they are, they've
- 55:09Speaker 1: granted Palantir the opportunity to create this overall database. And
- 55:14Speaker 1: that is one thing that JD did talk about. So
- 55:16Speaker 1: maybe he didn't give that just a political answer. He said,
- 55:18Speaker 1: he believes that it's just an overall database where like
- 55:22Speaker 1: the local police department will now have them in the IRS,
- 55:27Speaker 1: every IRS or everything will be synced up so that
- 55:30Speaker 1: if you're involved in something in the world, All the
- 55:34Speaker 1: databases will be linked, right? Now, I felt like he
- 55:36Speaker 1: would maybe know more about it because he has a
- 55:39Speaker 1: relationship with this guy, Peter Thiel, who is one of
- 55:43Speaker 1: the founders of it or something. But I don't know
- 55:46Speaker 1: if that's true, right? And maybe he didn't give me
- 55:49Speaker 1: a political answer. I think it felt, I don't know.
- 55:53Speaker 1: You know what? Maybe it's just it wasn't the exact
- 55:56Speaker 1: answer I wanted, right? And so that's why I'm kind
- 55:59Speaker 1: of framing it like that. Um, so yeah, I don't
- 56:03Speaker 1: want to say that it just felt, yeah, I think
- 56:05Speaker 1: it wasn't kind of what I wanted to hear, but
- 56:07Speaker 1: that's also part of diplomacy, right? It's like, I learned
- 56:10Speaker 1: that recently. It's like, everything is, you're not going to
- 56:13Speaker 1: get everything right. Nobody gets everything. But anyway, that's what
- 56:19Speaker 1: it said is this overall database. And to me, I'm thinking, dude,
- 56:24Speaker 1: if they have an overall database, right. And they know every,
- 56:29Speaker 1: they're going to know everything. to me, it feels like they,
- 56:32Speaker 1: that they'll just have this, like all your information, your
- 56:35Speaker 1: bank card, your blood type. Um, they'll know if you
- 56:38Speaker 1: prayed this morning, they'll know just by like biometrics or whatever.
- 56:41Speaker 1: If you've hit your knees, they'll know. Um, if you're
- 56:44Speaker 1: feeling hopeful, they'll know all of these things, right? Uh,
- 56:46Speaker 1: what are things that we don't see coming from this
- 56:49Speaker 1: Palantir deal? Do you think that those fears are realistic?
- 56:52Speaker 1: What do you think? Well, I'm concerned.
- 56:54Speaker 2: Let me tell you what, how I see the facts.
- 56:56Speaker 2: First of all, I don't want to, dunk on the
- 56:58Speaker 2: vice president, because I saw some of the interview, and
- 57:01Speaker 2: I love the fact that you have people here of
- 57:03Speaker 2: different viewpoints. But he's got a particular view. I mean,
- 57:06Speaker 2: Peter Thiel founded Palantir. Peter Thiel also, I mean it's
- 57:12Speaker 2: public record, put $ 15 million into his campaign.
- 57:15Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about that.
- 57:16Speaker 2: To make him a senator. So I'm not saying– I'm
- 57:18Speaker 2: not questioning him. I'm just saying he's got a view
- 57:21Speaker 2: of a relationship with Palantir and we've got to figure
- 57:26Speaker 2: out what are the objective facts. I mean the Palantir
- 57:30Speaker 2: was founded by Peter Thiel. And it was founded by CIA.
- 57:32Speaker 2: It's In-Q-Tel, right? This is what funds it.
- 57:35Speaker 1: CIA is what do you mean?
- 57:36Speaker 2: The CIA has a venture capital firm called In-Q-Tel.
- 57:39Speaker 1: In-Q-Tel.
- 57:40Speaker 2: They gave the money initially for Palantir. There are certain
- 57:43Speaker 2: things that Palantir does that are important to our country.
- 57:46Speaker 2: They're using AI for military applications so that our fighter
- 57:50Speaker 2: pilots can identify targets, right? We need certain things to
- 57:54Speaker 2: make sure that we're the leading military in the world.
- 57:57Speaker 2: The problem is on this database that they're creating about Americans, right?
- 58:02Speaker 2: And here's what they can do. They're not collecting the data.
- 58:05Speaker 2: They keep saying, I'm a data aggregator. That means they're
- 58:08Speaker 2: creating the program, the software, where the government puts in
- 58:11Speaker 2: the data, your financial records, your health records, your employment records.
- 58:17Speaker 2: They can buy your social media records and they put
- 58:19Speaker 2: it in and Palantir spits out information. Now, let me
- 58:24Speaker 2: give you a concrete example of of why this could
- 58:27Speaker 2: be dangerous. Let's say you're a comedian. You know comedians, right?
- 58:32Speaker 2: My guess is before you became Theo Vaughn, there were
- 58:35Speaker 2: times where as a comedian you did shows that made
- 58:38Speaker 2: you maybe $ 5, 000 a night, and maybe then you'd go
- 58:41Speaker 2: a while and not make anything or make $ 500, right?
- 58:44Speaker 2: You got good shows, bad shows.
- 58:46Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I mean, we made $ 25, yeah, $ 100, yeah,
- 58:49Speaker 1: for sure.
- 58:49Speaker 2: And I'm sure you still have friends who are in
- 58:53Speaker 2: stand-up comedy and who have good nights and bad nights. Now, Palantir,
- 58:57Speaker 2: this database, suddenly flags and does an algorithm. And if
- 59:02Speaker 2: someone's having income here and there, they say, well, is
- 59:06Speaker 2: this person a risk for tax evasion? And suddenly they're
- 59:09Speaker 2: getting off. because they're making a predictive model that stand-up
- 59:14Speaker 2: comedians should be making $ 70, 000 a year and this person
- 59:18Speaker 2: isn't disclosing their income.
- 59:19Speaker 1: Are they a risk?
- 59:20Speaker 2: We don't know with Palantir what their algorithm is targeting.
- 59:25Speaker 2: Are they targeting ordinary people who have incomes.
- 59:29Speaker 1: That are variable?
- 59:30Speaker 2: Or are they targeting the billionaires who are evading taxes?
- 59:34Speaker 2: It's just a black box. We don't know what data
- 59:38Speaker 2: of your friends or my friends is being collected and
- 59:41Speaker 2: whether they're actually creating a database. All we need to
- 59:45Speaker 2: do is have transparency. I have three simple things that
- 59:48Speaker 2: I think we should be able to get consensus around.
- 59:51Speaker 2: Your data should not be collected without your consent. You
- 59:56Speaker 2: need to know what data of yours the federal government has.
- 1:00:00Speaker 2: The federal government should not have any of your data
- 1:00:02Speaker 2: that they don't absolutely need to provide you a service.
- 1:00:06Speaker 2: And then When Palantir, we should know what their algorithms are.
- 1:00:10Speaker 2: Are they doing this to get audit people who are
- 1:00:13Speaker 2: like making 50 grand because they're accusing them of tax evasion?
- 1:00:17Speaker 2: Are they targeting their algorithms on the very rich or
- 1:00:20Speaker 2: on ordinary folks? What if you have a social media
- 1:00:23Speaker 2: post that says things that are critical of the government?
- 1:00:26Speaker 2: Is that information now the government has? It's like a
- 1:00:28Speaker 2: whole black box.
- 1:00:30Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very scary. It's very scary too because what if,
- 1:00:37Speaker 1: Another country says, hey, Palantir, you're our friends. Why don't
- 1:00:43Speaker 1: you target these people in America so we can start
- 1:00:45Speaker 1: to bring them down, right? Why don't you start to
- 1:00:47Speaker 1: adjust their scores? Hey, why don't you make it so
- 1:00:53Speaker 1: that it makes it look like these people have already
- 1:00:55Speaker 1: paid their taxes if they haven't? You know what I'm saying?
- 1:00:57Speaker 1: There's just all these little things that could be plausible
- 1:00:59Speaker 1: based on whoever owns the information. Like whoever owns Palantir,
- 1:01:02Speaker 1: whoever owns that algorithm is going to be able to
- 1:01:05Speaker 1: basically puppeteer so many things that could be possible. And
- 1:01:10Speaker 1: even if they're not doing it, there's the fear that
- 1:01:12Speaker 1: they could be doing it. There's the fear they could.
- 1:01:13Speaker 2: And there are no laws right now, right? We need
- 1:01:15Speaker 2: laws saying show us your algorithms. Have an audit of
- 1:01:20Speaker 2: the algorithms. Who are you targeting? How do we make
- 1:01:22Speaker 2: sure that you're not using this in a negative way?
- 1:01:26Speaker 2: And basically like Americans should know what data people have
- 1:01:29Speaker 2: about this.
- 1:01:30Speaker 1: I agree. I agree with you 100%, man. And I
- 1:01:33Speaker 1: want to say also, I don't want a company like
- 1:01:35Speaker 1: Palantir to think you're bullying me or you're doing this
- 1:01:38Speaker 1: or that. They just happen to be the company that
- 1:01:41Speaker 1: has been picked. And it's a scary time. It's already
- 1:01:46Speaker 1: so scary with technology, everything happening so fast. It's spooky.
- 1:01:51Speaker 2: And you have a nuanced view. Look, I have a
- 1:01:53Speaker 2: nuanced view. There's things that Palantir does that are important
- 1:01:56Speaker 2: for a military. Like just saying, oh, Palantir is all
- 1:01:59Speaker 2: bad would be... unfair to what they're doing on the pandemic.
- 1:02:04Speaker 2: They helped with distribution or what they've done on the military.
- 1:02:07Speaker 2: The point is, though, this American database building is scary
- 1:02:11Speaker 2: and trying to predict whether someone is being a tax
- 1:02:14Speaker 2: delinquent or not, trying to predict if they're going to
- 1:02:16Speaker 2: be a financial risk, trying to figure out a profile
- 1:02:20Speaker 2: on them. And what we need, I really blame the
- 1:02:23Speaker 2: lawmakers because what we need is the laws to protect
- 1:02:26Speaker 2: people's privacy, to protect people's data. like to protect the
- 1:02:32Speaker 2: the use of these algorithms.
- 1:02:34Speaker 1: Yeah i agree 100 and we're going to get to
- 1:02:35Speaker 1: that i know you have the the internet bill of
- 1:02:37Speaker 1: rights and so we're going to get to that in
- 1:02:39Speaker 1: a second um yeah this is the push i want
- 1:02:43Speaker 1: to say this the push has put a key palantir
- 1:02:45Speaker 1: product called foundry into at least four federal agencies um
- 1:02:50Speaker 1: including dhs hhs uh And others. Widely adopting Foundry, which
- 1:02:56Speaker 1: organizes and analyzes data, paves the way for Mr. Trump
- 1:02:59Speaker 1: to easily merge information from different agencies, the government officials said.
- 1:03:03Speaker 1: And that's what J.D. Vance said when he was here, right?
- 1:03:05Speaker 1: He was saying– and I'm reading that off of the
- 1:03:09Speaker 1: New York Times, give or take what you think about them.
- 1:03:12Speaker 1: But– Uh, that's what JD Vance had said that he
- 1:03:15Speaker 1: thought it was just this overall compiling, this kind of
- 1:03:17Speaker 1: aggregating of information, right? He didn't think it would get
- 1:03:20Speaker 1: super specific. So I do, you know, I don't think he,
- 1:03:23Speaker 1: it felt a little politically, but that also could just
- 1:03:26Speaker 1: be what he exactly believes. And that could be exactly
- 1:03:28Speaker 1: what's happening. I think there's just a lot of fear
- 1:03:31Speaker 1: with it. A lot of it says in here also
- 1:03:34Speaker 1: creating detailed portraits of Americans based on government data is
- 1:03:37Speaker 1: not just a pipe dream. The Trump administration has already
- 1:03:40Speaker 1: sought access to hundreds of data points on citizens and
- 1:03:42Speaker 1: others through government databases, including their bank account numbers, the
- 1:03:46Speaker 1: amount of their student debt, medical claims, disability status. et cetera.
- 1:03:50Speaker 1: So this will just, I mean, I think this whole
- 1:03:53Speaker 1: thing just goes further down that line. And I don't even,
- 1:03:56Speaker 1: of just like knowing everything about everyone. And I don't
- 1:03:59Speaker 1: even think that it's Republican or Democrat. I just think
- 1:04:03Speaker 1: it's where we are in time right now with technology
- 1:04:06Speaker 1: and that it's very scary and that you can start
- 1:04:09Speaker 1: to see how big the tech lobby is. I want
- 1:04:12Speaker 1: to say this. One thing about Palantir though, that a
- 1:04:16Speaker 1: lot of people have had issues with is what they're
- 1:04:19Speaker 1: doing in Gaza, right? With AI targeting. And this is
- 1:04:23Speaker 1: off of, I read this online, and so that makes
- 1:04:27Speaker 1: it probably uncredible, but allegedly Palantir software is reportedly used
- 1:04:32Speaker 1: by the Israeli military to help select targets in Gaza.
- 1:04:35Speaker 1: Its data mining and AI systems can process intelligence reports,
- 1:04:38Speaker 1: communication intercepts, and surveillance data to generate lists of potential
- 1:04:43Speaker 1: targets in a matter of minutes, a process that previously
- 1:04:46Speaker 1: took hours. Lavender and Habsora, which are two of their
- 1:04:53Speaker 1: kind of, I guess, programs or overall idea names. And
- 1:04:57Speaker 1: Habsora means the gospel. Investigations indicate that two AI systems,
- 1:05:02Speaker 1: Lavender and Habsora, are at the core of this collaboration.
- 1:05:06Speaker 1: Lavender assigns Palestinians a threat score based on metadata, social media,
- 1:05:11Speaker 1: and movement patterns. These systems reportedly operate with significant error
- 1:05:15Speaker 1: margins and and their recommendations can be enough to authorize
- 1:05:18Speaker 1: deadly strikes, sometimes with minimal human oversight. Gaza is described
- 1:05:24Speaker 1: as a live laboratory for these AI technologies where new
- 1:05:28Speaker 1: systems are trained, tested, and refined in real-time combat conditions
- 1:05:32Speaker 1: before being marked globally as battle-tested solutions. I think that's
- 1:05:36Speaker 1: where a lot of the fear is.
- 1:05:38Speaker 2: It really is.
- 1:05:39Speaker 1: If that can happen there, and they're capable of that,
- 1:05:43Speaker 1: then how do I know if when I'm walking down
- 1:05:45Speaker 1: the street that some decision I made years ago or something,
- 1:05:50Speaker 1: a bullet's not just gonna fly out of anywhere and
- 1:05:52Speaker 1: go through my head from a drone or something, you know?
- 1:05:55Speaker 1: That I think is the big fear about this. And
- 1:05:57Speaker 1: I think some people don't even know it. I think
- 1:05:59Speaker 1: the big fear with technology- Is that crazy for me
- 1:06:02Speaker 1: to say that? No, I mean, I don't think.
- 1:06:05Speaker 2: It's crazy to fear that machines should not control human beings, right?
- 1:06:09Speaker 2: I mean, we- Look, technology can do a lot of good.
- 1:06:13Speaker 2: It can do a lot of bad. But the key
- 1:06:15Speaker 2: principle here is, are human beings going to be in charge?
- 1:06:18Speaker 2: From what you described, it looks like that AI is
- 1:06:21Speaker 2: being used. They're selecting targeting. And the biggest negative in
- 1:06:25Speaker 2: that whole paragraph you read is without human oversight. I mean,
- 1:06:29Speaker 2: you still need a human being saying, OK, wait, we're
- 1:06:33Speaker 2: not just going to go do strikes because AI tells
- 1:06:35Speaker 2: us there's a risk. There's some women and children there.
- 1:06:37Speaker 2: Let's not have those strikes. There's a hospital there, right?
- 1:06:41Speaker 2: And I think that one of the things we need
- 1:06:42Speaker 2: to adopt for the United States is there has to
- 1:06:46Speaker 2: be a human being making decisions before any military use,
- 1:06:49Speaker 2: any military strike.
- 1:06:51Speaker 1: Yeah, at least give me the fat guy with the
- 1:06:52Speaker 1: donut sitting there and be like, nah, forget it. Nah, nah, nah.
- 1:06:56Speaker 2: It's like we're now going to be, we're celebrating, we're celebrating.
- 1:07:00Speaker 2: He would, I'd rather have a human being, right? Because
- 1:07:02Speaker 2: there's some compassion.
- 1:07:03Speaker 1: Oh, I agree.
- 1:07:04Speaker 2: There's some sense of guilt. AI is not going to
- 1:07:06Speaker 2: feel guilty. AI is not going to feel a compassion.
- 1:07:09Speaker 2: AI is not going to, Have any accountability?
- 1:07:11Speaker 1: AI doesn't even go to sleep at night. How can
- 1:07:14Speaker 1: you trust something that doesn't even go to sleep at night?
- 1:07:17Speaker 1: That doesn't even give God a chance to rebuild the
- 1:07:19Speaker 1: inside of it while it's resting.
- 1:07:21Speaker 2: That's pretty beautiful.
- 1:07:22Speaker 1: I do not understand this, man. And that's very scary.
- 1:07:25Speaker 1: And that happens. It's happening. Allegedly, I want to say that.
- 1:07:29Speaker 1: It's allegedly, you can go look it up for yourself,
- 1:07:30Speaker 1: happening in Gaza that this, and to me, it does
- 1:07:34Speaker 1: start to feel like that. You're like, it has been
- 1:07:36Speaker 1: such a massacre. They are so overabundant. I mean, it's
- 1:07:40Speaker 1: basically people climbing into holes of rubble, looking for pieces
- 1:07:44Speaker 1: of their children and family members. And it's like, we're
- 1:07:47Speaker 1: watching it all. It really does feel like, am I
- 1:07:52Speaker 1: now part of some sick experiment? Like how long do
- 1:07:56Speaker 1: I sit and watch before I raise my hand or
- 1:07:58Speaker 1: say something, or at least some part of me that
- 1:08:00Speaker 1: has a voice inside of me that says, just take
- 1:08:06Speaker 1: me out. I don't want to be in this game anymore.
- 1:08:08Speaker 1: I don't like it, man. I don't like it. We're
- 1:08:12Speaker 1: going to keep it moving right there because we have
- 1:08:14Speaker 1: some other stuff that I wanted to say. Oh, I
- 1:08:16Speaker 1: wanted to think about this with you. At some point,
- 1:08:18Speaker 1: if we lay this layer of technology over our society,
- 1:08:22Speaker 1: and whether we do it now or it's in the
- 1:08:23Speaker 1: future with AI, this all-knowing kind of layer that knows like,
- 1:08:30Speaker 1: if you've eaten, knows your blood pressure, knows how far
- 1:08:32Speaker 1: you've walked today, knows how much money you have, uh,
- 1:08:35Speaker 1: knows the emojis you sent recently to kind of get
- 1:08:37Speaker 1: a aggregate idea of how you're even feeling as a human,
- 1:08:41Speaker 1: then that almost becomes your God, right? In a weird way.
- 1:08:46Speaker 1: I know that some people will say nothing will ever
- 1:08:48Speaker 1: be my, be, uh, be a new God for me. I,
- 1:08:52Speaker 1: I feel that. And I, I agree with that and
- 1:08:54Speaker 1: I respect that. But if you're say future generations, if
- 1:08:59Speaker 1: they're raised under this cloud of that's all knowing, then
- 1:09:05Speaker 1: that would, they almost at some point pray to this
- 1:09:08Speaker 1: algorithm that it would change, give them a lottery ball
- 1:09:12Speaker 1: of some sort of thing or something. Does that even,
- 1:09:14Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of Ray Brad Bellion or whatever,
- 1:09:17Speaker 1: Brad Wellion or whatever. Um, or Brad Burwellian, but does
- 1:09:23Speaker 1: that make any sense to you, man?
- 1:09:24Speaker 2: Well, that's why we have to keep our humanity. You know,
- 1:09:27Speaker 2: some of the stuff in Silicon Valley is crazy where
- 1:09:30Speaker 2: these tech leaders really are trying to be God-like. Let
- 1:09:35Speaker 2: me give you two examples. Have you heard of this
- 1:09:37Speaker 2: thing called a, cryonics, you know, where.
- 1:09:40Speaker 1: We had a guy on who did the freezing. Yeah.
- 1:09:43Speaker 2: Oh, you did.
- 1:09:43Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 1:09:44Speaker 2: I mean, basically they want to like freeze your body.
- 1:09:47Speaker 2: If you die, if I die, freeze your body and
- 1:09:49Speaker 2: your brain so that some future medical technology could bring
- 1:09:53Speaker 2: you back to life.
- 1:09:54Speaker 1: Some pervert probably too.
- 1:09:56Speaker 2: And Peter Thiel has done this reportedly Sam Altman at
- 1:09:59Speaker 2: open AI has done this, have signed up for it,
- 1:10:00Speaker 2: have signed up for it. That's the reporting. Now, I'll
- 1:10:03Speaker 2: tell you why that's so bad to try to be immortal.
- 1:10:06Speaker 2: One of my favorite speeches of all time was Steve Jobs.
- 1:10:10Speaker 2: Steve Jobs founded Apple Computers. He dies of pancreatic cancer.
- 1:10:13Speaker 2: He gives this commencement speech and he says that life
- 1:10:18Speaker 2: invented death and death is a change agent because death
- 1:10:24Speaker 2: allows for the removal of the old guard and for
- 1:10:28Speaker 2: new ideas and new creativity to come about. Like you're
- 1:10:32Speaker 2: supposed to make way for a new generation. We're supposed
- 1:10:37Speaker 2: to be mortal. So you have these people who are
- 1:10:40Speaker 2: trying to be immortal. Now, why does that matter? Because
- 1:10:43Speaker 2: this is partly AI, right? If you don't have a
- 1:10:46Speaker 2: sense of your own mortality, your own limitations, you're not
- 1:10:49Speaker 2: going to have a humanistic sense of putting people over machines.
- 1:10:52Speaker 2: A second example with these tech leaders, they want to
- 1:10:56Speaker 2: build these tech cities. Have you heard of that?
- 1:10:58Speaker 1: I've seen like pieces in Memphis and stuff where people
- 1:11:01Speaker 1: are getting sick because of like data being uploaded and
- 1:11:04Speaker 1: stuff in their neighborhood and shit like that. Storage, you know?
- 1:11:07Speaker 2: That's a big issue of how these data centers are
- 1:11:09Speaker 2: being built and whether they're going to cause pollution or dislocation.
- 1:11:13Speaker 2: But they really want to build these. tech cities, not
- 1:11:15Speaker 2: just a city. It's like a secular Genesis. Like they
- 1:11:19Speaker 2: want to build a new civilization with algorithmic norms, with
- 1:11:24Speaker 2: morality that they're setting, not like the, that was set
- 1:11:27Speaker 2: by God or years of civilization.
- 1:11:31Speaker 1: And it's scary.
- 1:11:32Speaker 2: It's scary because it shows an arrogance, a lack of humility.
- 1:11:37Speaker 2: My sense is, look, AI can be an incredible tool.
- 1:11:40Speaker 2: If it, uh, helps you figure out how many steps
- 1:11:44Speaker 2: you walked and when you're sleeping and how to be nutritious.
- 1:11:47Speaker 2: But it has to be subservient to human agency. We
- 1:11:54Speaker 2: have to have laws that say, ultimately, human beings are
- 1:11:59Speaker 2: in charge. And we have to make sure that we're
- 1:12:02Speaker 2: teaching people to have the critical thinking skills and the
- 1:12:05Speaker 2: autonomy to be able to use these programs and not
- 1:12:09Speaker 2: be subservient to them. And that's, to me, that's the
- 1:12:11Speaker 2: biggest question for humanity. It's ironic because, you know, you're
- 1:12:16Speaker 2: asking almost deeper questions than any of these Sunday talk
- 1:12:18Speaker 2: shows are in Congress. Like in Congress, we're busy fighting
- 1:12:21Speaker 2: about like who insulted who and like who's up, who's
- 1:12:24Speaker 2: down in the polls. And we just have this technology
- 1:12:27Speaker 2: revolution that's going to change how all of us work, that,
- 1:12:31Speaker 2: you know, is going to make people afraid if they're
- 1:12:33Speaker 2: going to lose their jobs, that's going to try to
- 1:12:37Speaker 2: create the super intelligence, wondering whether we're making the decisions
- 1:12:40Speaker 2: or machines are making the decisions. That's what we should
- 1:12:43Speaker 2: be talking about. Right.
- 1:12:45Speaker 1: And we should be talking about it in a way
- 1:12:46Speaker 1: that is, and I guess there are ways to talk
- 1:12:49Speaker 1: about it in ways that are exciting, but I just
- 1:12:51Speaker 1: think right now with what you have seen, like, but
- 1:12:55Speaker 1: what the, to me, the, the destruction and the, uh,
- 1:13:00Speaker 1: the stuff caused by Israel. Now it makes it very
- 1:13:02Speaker 1: scary to, uh, right now with that company? Cause you've
- 1:13:05Speaker 1: just seen that. And then you're now, that's the company
- 1:13:07Speaker 1: that's going to oversee our country. What's going to keep
- 1:13:09Speaker 1: me from being a Palestinian to the next guy who
- 1:13:13Speaker 1: starts the button in the morning from his cell phone
- 1:13:15Speaker 1: and then goes off on his yacht, you know, and,
- 1:13:17Speaker 1: and just the constitution, hopefully, but right, right. Hopefully the constitution. Um,
- 1:13:23Speaker 1: thanks for your patience today. Uh, Mr. Kana.
- 1:13:26Speaker 2: Bro is fine.
- 1:13:26Speaker 1: Bro. Rohit.
- 1:13:28Speaker 2: That's your real name?
- 1:13:29Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 1:13:29Speaker 2: How do you say it? Rohit. You know, when I
- 1:13:31Speaker 2: was a kid, I still remember this. They used to say, Rohit, Rohit,
- 1:13:36Speaker 2: Rohit is on fire. And then I figured out it
- 1:13:39Speaker 2: was like I'm making fun of my full name. And
- 1:13:41Speaker 2: then when I used to go up to hit on
- 1:13:44Speaker 2: Little League, I used to go chant, Ro can't hit.
- 1:13:47Speaker 2: Ro can't hit. Watch the bunt.
- 1:13:49Speaker 1: But, you know, we have this in common, right? I
- 1:13:52Speaker 1: looked up that you got.
- 1:13:53Speaker 2: A long name.
- 1:13:54Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. What's your full name?
- 1:13:56Speaker 2: It's Rohit Khanna.
- 1:13:57Speaker 1: Rohit Khanna.
- 1:13:58Speaker 2: But, you know, we're both– I don't want to geek
- 1:14:00Speaker 2: out because I loved literature. But it's like quintessentially American
- 1:14:07Speaker 2: to in some ways change your name and to make
- 1:14:09Speaker 2: your story, right? Like my favorite character in all of
- 1:14:12Speaker 2: American literature is this guy, Jay Gatsby. And his name
- 1:14:15Speaker 2: was James Gatz. He was from North Dakota. And he said, well,
- 1:14:19Speaker 2: James Gatz is not a sophisticated name. So I'm going
- 1:14:21Speaker 2: to call myself Jay Gatsby. And he reinvents himself. And
- 1:14:25Speaker 2: in different ways, you, Theo Vaughn, like no one would
- 1:14:28Speaker 2: have thought you'd be Theo Vaughn growing up. No one
- 1:14:30Speaker 2: would have thought this geeky Indian kid is going to
- 1:14:33Speaker 2: go represent Silicon Valley. And Rohit Khanna is going to
- 1:14:36Speaker 2: become Ro Khanna representing the most economically powerful place in
- 1:14:40Speaker 2: the world. But like that's the story of America, right?
- 1:14:42Speaker 2: That's the story of self-invention. And it's something that we've
- 1:14:46Speaker 2: kind of lost. It's why my parents came here. And
- 1:14:50Speaker 2: the question is how do we get that back? Like
- 1:14:53Speaker 2: how– You know, we've talked about all the negative stuff,
- 1:14:55Speaker 2: which I get.
- 1:14:56Speaker 1: That's a good point. But how do we get.
- 1:14:57Speaker 2: People believing in this country again, believing that we can
- 1:15:00Speaker 2: do big things again?
- 1:15:02Speaker 1: Well, I think there's some ways– and we'll go into
- 1:15:04Speaker 1: this now then because we're on my list here and
- 1:15:06Speaker 1: I am using a list today. That's okay because it's
- 1:15:09Speaker 1: an important conversation. Because of AI, job replacement has already
- 1:15:16Speaker 1: started to happen, right? What kind of worker protections can
- 1:15:19Speaker 1: be implemented, do you think? Because I know you have
- 1:15:21Speaker 1: an internet bill of rights, and then we can talk
- 1:15:22Speaker 1: about that right after that.
- 1:15:23Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 1:15:24Speaker 1: Or it may be part of it. But what do
- 1:15:26Speaker 1: you think? Because we should be protecting the human, right,
- 1:15:29Speaker 1: at a certain point.
- 1:15:29Speaker 2: We should be protecting the human. And we could go
- 1:15:31Speaker 2: two ways with AI, right? One way of AI is, like,
- 1:15:35Speaker 2: this could create a lot of new jobs, right? We
- 1:15:37Speaker 2: could build new factories now that are productive in this country.
- 1:15:41Speaker 2: You could have someone in a classroom in Kentucky doing
- 1:15:43Speaker 2: Now who, because AI doesn't get to go to Harvard
- 1:15:46Speaker 2: or Stanford, but suddenly has the knowledge of the whole
- 1:15:49Speaker 2: world at their fingertips. And it can get that kind
- 1:15:52Speaker 2: of education. You can have someone working in a small
- 1:15:54Speaker 2: rural town making 80 grand or a hundred grand because
- 1:15:58Speaker 2: they're a content creator. Or you know how many content
- 1:16:02Speaker 2: creators there are in this country? 1.5 million who make
- 1:16:05Speaker 2: some money doing content creation. Or they can do digital
- 1:16:09Speaker 2: marketing or they can help AI start a small business.
- 1:16:12Speaker 2: So like my point is, how do we get AI
- 1:16:15Speaker 2: to lessen the wage gap to create economic opportunities as
- 1:16:19Speaker 2: opposed to just eliminating jobs? The scary part is, what
- 1:16:24Speaker 2: if they're going to start to eliminate jobs? Like if
- 1:16:27Speaker 2: you're a truck driver, what if they say, okay, we're
- 1:16:29Speaker 2: just going to have self-driving trucks. That's why we need
- 1:16:31Speaker 2: to pass law saying, no, I need a truck driver
- 1:16:35Speaker 2: for safety. Like, would you fly on a plane right
- 1:16:37Speaker 2: now without pilots? You know, same thing. I wouldn't. So
- 1:16:41Speaker 2: let's make sure we have basic safety in terms of
- 1:16:44Speaker 2: recognizing that we do want workers and workers get to
- 1:16:47Speaker 2: have a say in how to use this technology. You
- 1:16:50Speaker 2: know what the scariest thing is? The unemployment rate for
- 1:16:53Speaker 2: kids between 21 and 29 who have a college degree.
- 1:16:56Speaker 2: Everyone often says, oh, if you have a college degree,
- 1:16:59Speaker 2: you're going to be employed. Actually, it turns out if
- 1:17:01Speaker 2: you have a vocational skill, skilled trades, 21 to 29,
- 1:17:04Speaker 2: you have a 2% unemployment rate right now. College degrees, 15%.
- 1:17:09Speaker 2: That could go up to 30%. if with AI, with
- 1:17:13Speaker 2: these entry-level jobs. And one of the things we need,
- 1:17:18Speaker 2: I think we need the federal government to help incentivize
- 1:17:22Speaker 2: people getting apprenticeships after they're done with a trade school
- 1:17:27Speaker 2: or a college so they can actually get a job,
- 1:17:29Speaker 2: make sure they're subsidized. Create a government future workforce administration
- 1:17:33Speaker 2: that hires them so they get a few years of
- 1:17:35Speaker 2: experience and then can go on to the private sector.
- 1:17:38Speaker 2: Most importantly, everyone needs to understand technology and AI. The
- 1:17:44Speaker 2: old cliche is you're not going to be replaced by AI,
- 1:17:46Speaker 2: but you will be replaced by someone who knows AI.
- 1:17:49Speaker 2: And in our schools, K through 12, everyone should have
- 1:17:54Speaker 2: a technology class. China is aiming by 2030 to have
- 1:17:57Speaker 2: universal literacy on AI.
- 1:17:59Speaker 1: No, yeah, not to interrupt you, but I think, well,
- 1:18:02Speaker 1: one thing you said here that was really great was Anybody,
- 1:18:05Speaker 1: I agree. A lot of jobs are going to, it's
- 1:18:07Speaker 1: going to be scary. I'm amazed. I was talking to
- 1:18:09Speaker 1: my brother yesterday. I was like, I said, bro, do
- 1:18:11Speaker 1: you have your kids learning about AI right now? Like,
- 1:18:13Speaker 1: are they learning about it? Are they starting to use it?
- 1:18:15Speaker 1: And my brother's like, no, I don't think so. I said, dude,
- 1:18:18Speaker 1: I feel like it's coming so fast that it could
- 1:18:21Speaker 1: change things really fast. Now, one thing you mentioned is
- 1:18:26Speaker 1: anybody can learn this right now. It's almost like a
- 1:18:29Speaker 1: great reset in a lot of ways. So you have
- 1:18:31Speaker 1: the kid who couldn't afford to go to Harvard, right,
- 1:18:33Speaker 1: who couldn't afford to go to MIT, whose father doesn't
- 1:18:36Speaker 1: have the nepotism because we certainly live in like a
- 1:18:40Speaker 1: nepotism society now in a lot of ways, whose father
- 1:18:43Speaker 1: didn't have that capability. Now that kid can get on
- 1:18:47Speaker 1: a computer for probably six, weeks or something, really focus
- 1:18:51Speaker 1: and crack down and could probably get a job. I
- 1:18:55Speaker 1: was literally looking the other day. It was like, I
- 1:18:57Speaker 1: need somebody who knows everything about AI, right? I need
- 1:19:00Speaker 1: somebody who can program and design things. and help with AI,
- 1:19:03Speaker 1: like I wanna start an AI studio, right? And I
- 1:19:06Speaker 1: gotta do it fast because everybody else is gonna be
- 1:19:09Speaker 1: doing it. You could have a new indie. So even
- 1:19:11Speaker 1: someone like you needs AI, right? 100%. I feel every
- 1:19:14Speaker 1: day there's a little part of me that pull, like
- 1:19:16Speaker 1: a little string inside of me that gets a reminder, Like, hey, man,
- 1:19:20Speaker 1: you have to get on top of this. I know
- 1:19:21Speaker 1: other things are pressing.
- 1:19:22Speaker 2: I hope kids who are listening to this hear that
- 1:19:24Speaker 2: because a lot of people want to be like, how
- 1:19:25Speaker 2: do I be Theo Vaughn? How do I be this
- 1:19:27Speaker 2: guy with a podcast or be a stand-up comedian? And
- 1:19:32Speaker 2: even someone like you, you want to do that. You
- 1:19:34Speaker 2: got to know. AI, look, one of the things I
- 1:19:35Speaker 2: say is, look, I was really good as an Indian
- 1:19:37Speaker 2: kid at math, right? Like every Indian kid is. But
- 1:19:40Speaker 2: you don't need math. Like you don't need algebra and
- 1:19:42Speaker 2: calculus anymore to do AI. You don't have to.
- 1:19:44Speaker 1: Dude, you're going to shake up all of Madras by
- 1:19:47Speaker 1: saying that.
- 1:19:49Speaker 2: You don't have to be like I was, like some
- 1:19:51Speaker 2: nerdy kid who did like mathletes and got good grades
- 1:19:55Speaker 2: on math tests. Don't need it anymore. If you want
- 1:19:58Speaker 2: to be an advanced coder, programmer, fine. But the amazing
- 1:20:01Speaker 2: thing with AI is now it does all that for you.
- 1:20:03Speaker 2: You know what jobs are actually being eliminated? The coder jobs.
- 1:20:06Speaker 2: The guys who did all the math. The AI is
- 1:20:09Speaker 2: doing the coding for them.
- 1:20:10Speaker 1: Imagine there's a guy sitting there building AI and it's
- 1:20:13Speaker 1: only going to take his job.
- 1:20:15Speaker 2: So now, like, okay, you don't have to be the
- 1:20:17Speaker 2: kid who did algebra and calculus. Not to say that
- 1:20:20Speaker 2: you shouldn't learn math. You should learn it for your
- 1:20:22Speaker 2: own sake. But even if you don't like math, Now
- 1:20:24Speaker 2: you can just learn this technology. You just have to
- 1:20:27Speaker 2: be comfortable with it. How do you use it to
- 1:20:30Speaker 2: do a business? How do you use it to learn
- 1:20:32Speaker 2: about the world? And you can be the one asking
- 1:20:35Speaker 2: it questions and prompting it, and it can create a
- 1:20:38Speaker 2: whole new level of jobs. And you know what the
- 1:20:41Speaker 2: exciting thing is? You don't have to leave Louisiana. For
- 1:20:44Speaker 2: so many times we said, okay, you got to go
- 1:20:46Speaker 2: move to Silicon Valley, move to New York. And people
- 1:20:48Speaker 2: in Appalachia.
- 1:20:49Speaker 1: Yeah, the gold rush or whatever.
- 1:20:50Speaker 2: And people in Appalachia were like, yeah, no, it's really
- 1:20:52Speaker 2: beautiful here. No, I really like living in my small town,
- 1:20:55Speaker 2: in my rural community. Like, no, I don't want to
- 1:20:57Speaker 2: go live in New York. No, I don't want to
- 1:20:59Speaker 2: go to Rose District. I often ask all these people
- 1:21:01Speaker 2: in my district who are like, oh, okay, just tell
- 1:21:04Speaker 2: them to move here or move to a tech place.
- 1:21:06Speaker 2: I was like, well, are you going to move to Louisiana?
- 1:21:08Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 1:21:08Speaker 2: And no hands go up. Then I was like, why
- 1:21:09Speaker 2: are you so arrogant to think they want to live here?
- 1:21:12Speaker 2: They like it where they grew up with their families.
- 1:21:15Speaker 2: But now you can live there and you learn a
- 1:21:17Speaker 2: little bit of tech and you can work for almost
- 1:21:20Speaker 2: any company in the country, in the world. That is
- 1:21:23Speaker 2: the opportunity if we do this right. And we should
- 1:21:26Speaker 2: start with kindergarten through 12th grade. It's just like reading
- 1:21:29Speaker 2: or writing.
- 1:21:29Speaker 1: I agree.
- 1:21:30Speaker 2: Are your brother's kids going to do it?
- 1:21:32Speaker 1: I hope so. I'll say this. They're not working for
- 1:21:34Speaker 1: me one day if they don't. This is also interesting
- 1:21:37Speaker 1: because it's like every now and then there's something that
- 1:21:39Speaker 1: makes it where you can jump. You can jump up
- 1:21:42Speaker 1: a cast or a system. You can jump a couple levels.
- 1:21:45Speaker 1: And I believe that right now this is that thing.
- 1:21:48Speaker 2: I say the same exact thing. You know, the wealth gap,
- 1:21:51Speaker 2: there are two huge wealth gaps in this country. One
- 1:21:54Speaker 2: is between places like Silicon Valley and factory towns, rural
- 1:21:57Speaker 2: towns that were decimated. And the other is a racial
- 1:22:00Speaker 2: wealth gap, 10 to 1. White families and Asian-American families
- 1:22:05Speaker 2: 10 to 1 the wealth of people who are African-American, Latino-American. Technology,
- 1:22:10Speaker 2: you can do that, scale it in one generation. If
- 1:22:13Speaker 2: we can get rural communities, factory towns, towns in the
- 1:22:17Speaker 2: Black South, the opportunity to do things with tech and
- 1:22:21Speaker 2: build companies, build wealth, be content creators.
- 1:22:24Speaker 1: Oh, hell yeah. Black AI, dude. You know what I'm saying?
- 1:22:27Speaker 1: Build me a trap beat, homie. Let's get this. No,
- 1:22:31Speaker 1: but I agree with you. It's an opportunity, right? And
- 1:22:35Speaker 1: that is, it's like, it's an opportunity. People, some people
- 1:22:38Speaker 1: are like, there's no, and I know that's just one thing,
- 1:22:40Speaker 1: but also another thing is that trade jobs, like you're saying,
- 1:22:43Speaker 1: you're still going to need plumbers for sure. You're still
- 1:22:45Speaker 1: going to need, uh, you're still going to want the
- 1:22:47Speaker 1: hands on the wheel of a human being, I believe,
- 1:22:49Speaker 1: but there's a lot of trade jobs. You're not going
- 1:22:51Speaker 1: to be able to replace those. Um, you talked about
- 1:22:54Speaker 1: an internet bill of rights, right? Which you tried to, uh, pass,
- 1:22:57Speaker 1: I'm guessing, or tell me about that. Tell me a
- 1:22:59Speaker 1: little bit about that experience and why do we need that?
- 1:23:02Speaker 1: Do you feel like we already answered that or no?
- 1:23:04Speaker 2: I could go do it briefly. I mean, there's a guy,
- 1:23:07Speaker 2: Tim Berners-Lee. You should have him on sometime.
- 1:23:09Speaker 1: Tim, what's his name?
- 1:23:10Speaker 2: Tim Berners-Lee. He is the founder basically of the World
- 1:23:13Speaker 2: Wide Web. He's one of the people who made the
- 1:23:17Speaker 2: internet the internet. And I'm sure he was like knighted
- 1:23:21Speaker 2: or something. And so he and I talked and we
- 1:23:25Speaker 2: came out with this internet bill of rights. You remember
- 1:23:29Speaker 2: that Facebook Cambridge Analytica scandal where People lost their data
- 1:23:33Speaker 2: on Facebook and profiles were made. And basically it said,
- 1:23:37Speaker 2: in this country, no one should take your data without
- 1:23:41Speaker 2: your consent. And you should know where your data is.
- 1:23:44Speaker 2: I mean, there are other parts to it, but it's
- 1:23:45Speaker 2: like pretty simple. You own your data, you control your data,
- 1:23:49Speaker 2: and you should know what's happening with your data. And
- 1:23:51Speaker 2: I think, and by the way, you should be compensated
- 1:23:54Speaker 2: to some extent for the use of your data if
- 1:23:56Speaker 2: you consent. There should be a data dividend in this country.
- 1:24:00Speaker 2: And I think that is not a partisan issue. It
- 1:24:03Speaker 2: is an issue that's going to become increasingly important with
- 1:24:06Speaker 2: things like this database that may be being made. Like,
- 1:24:09Speaker 2: you should know. Do you know, Theo, right now what
- 1:24:11Speaker 2: the government knows about you? Do you know if there's
- 1:24:14Speaker 2: a profile on you? Do you know, like, what if
- 1:24:16Speaker 2: that database is wrong?
- 1:24:17Speaker 1: I'm a Pisces. I know that. I'm trying to think
- 1:24:19Speaker 1: of what else. I don't know. Yeah.
- 1:24:23Speaker 2: Like, you should know. You should be able to consent.
- 1:24:26Speaker 2: You should be able to get something deleted if they
- 1:24:28Speaker 2: have an incorrect information. And that applies to the government
- 1:24:31Speaker 2: and it applies to big corporations. I don't want Google
- 1:24:35Speaker 2: having some profile on Ro Khanna. I mean, so we
- 1:24:39Speaker 2: introduced this in 2017. Wow. 2017. Congress to this day
- 1:24:45Speaker 2: has not been able to introduce or pass any internet
- 1:24:49Speaker 2: bill of rights. There are no protections. You know, when
- 1:24:51Speaker 2: Josh Hawley.
- 1:24:52Speaker 1: When you say there's no protections, oh, you're just saying
- 1:24:53Speaker 1: there's no protections for people.
- 1:24:55Speaker 2: I mean, no protection for people. Josh Hawley once, and
- 1:24:57Speaker 2: there are places where I actually agree with Hawley, he
- 1:25:00Speaker 2: had Mark Zuckerberg stand up and.
- 1:25:02Speaker 1: Apologize- To those parents behind him.
- 1:25:04Speaker 2: To those parents.
- 1:25:04Speaker 1: I saw that.
- 1:25:05Speaker 2: And someone said to me, you know what he should
- 1:25:06Speaker 2: have also done? He should have had the whole Congress
- 1:25:08Speaker 2: stand up and apologize. The problem isn't just these tech companies,
- 1:25:12Speaker 2: it's the Congress. We've had this stuff going on for
- 1:25:15Speaker 2: 10 years and Congress has not passed an internet bill
- 1:25:19Speaker 2: of rights. And one of the things I say is, Like,
- 1:25:21Speaker 2: I know these people. I know how they think. They're
- 1:25:24Speaker 2: going to run circles around you. You got to hold
- 1:25:26Speaker 2: them accountable. Have the tech guy saying, hold them accountable.
- 1:25:29Speaker 1: Why won't they do it? The same reason as before?
- 1:25:32Speaker 2: Why won't the tech companies do it?
- 1:25:33Speaker 1: Who's lobbying? Who's lobbying against the big tech?
- 1:25:37Speaker 2: It's tech lobbying. It's internet service provider lobbying. It's these lobbyists.
- 1:25:43Speaker 2: And they don't want, and we haven't, I mean, can
- 1:25:46Speaker 2: you imagine this country that has a constitution that Is
- 1:25:49Speaker 2: the country founded on freedom and we don't have any
- 1:25:52Speaker 2: federal legislation saying you own your data?
- 1:25:56Speaker 1: Well, that's what it's all become. It's all part of
- 1:25:58Speaker 1: this thing where all you become is data and then
- 1:26:01Speaker 1: you don't own it and then you're part of a
- 1:26:04Speaker 1: new country without you even realizing it. You got put
- 1:26:08Speaker 1: into a whole new continent titled or owned by whatever.
- 1:26:13Speaker 1: Tech monarchy owns it or all of Jarchi owns it.
- 1:26:16Speaker 1: And then that's where you are. People are like, I'm
- 1:26:19Speaker 1: in America. Like, that's fine. You can believe that all
- 1:26:21Speaker 1: you want, right? But if another company owns your information,
- 1:26:26Speaker 1: that company can't really even be sued. There was also
- 1:26:29Speaker 1: part of that big, beautiful bill that keeps state-led, like,
- 1:26:33Speaker 1: AI- It's.
- 1:26:34Speaker 2: The worst part of that bill.
- 1:26:35Speaker 1: The AI, you can't even sue the people. Bring it
- 1:26:38Speaker 1: up for me. Get to that really quick.
- 1:26:39Speaker 2: 10 years, they want no state to have any regulation
- 1:26:43Speaker 2: on AI. 10 years to give a free pass to
- 1:26:46Speaker 2: these big tech companies, no regulation. I spoke out against
- 1:26:50Speaker 2: that and my phone blew up because I had all
- 1:26:52Speaker 2: these angry tech leaders saying, Roe, how are you speaking
- 1:26:55Speaker 2: out against these moratoriums? That's when I knew I was
- 1:26:57Speaker 2: doing the right thing.
- 1:26:58Speaker 1: That's when you know you're doing the right thing, man.
- 1:26:59Speaker 2: But- You know what's sad, Theo, in this country? Because
- 1:27:03Speaker 2: you and I both have gone to some of these
- 1:27:05Speaker 2: towns that lost their factories, that lost their industries, and
- 1:27:09Speaker 2: we screwed them twice. First, we took away their jobs.
- 1:27:12Speaker 2: We literally shipped their jobs offshore or watched their jobs
- 1:27:16Speaker 2: go to China. These towns started to deindustrialize. There was pain.
- 1:27:20Speaker 2: There was opioids. There were drugs.
- 1:27:22Speaker 1: And then what do we do?
- 1:27:23Speaker 2: We get social media companies to find algorithms on their
- 1:27:27Speaker 2: data to start targeting them with content, which is causing
- 1:27:33Speaker 2: young girls to commit suicide, which is getting some people
- 1:27:36Speaker 2: more addicted to drugs, which is getting people to be
- 1:27:38Speaker 2: angry at each other. It's like we screwed them taking
- 1:27:41Speaker 2: away their jobs and now we're taking their data and
- 1:27:44Speaker 2: screwing them with social media.
- 1:27:46Speaker 1: I just feel like the devil is at the gates, man.
- 1:27:48Speaker 1: I feel like we are at such an important time.
- 1:27:50Speaker 1: And I know people have probably said that before. And
- 1:27:52Speaker 1: what the fuck do I know, dude? I am, I'm
- 1:27:54Speaker 1: not mentally handicapped or whatever, but I am definitely adjacent, right?
- 1:27:58Speaker 1: But I do know some things. I know this, that
- 1:28:01Speaker 1: I'll say this. This is in that big, beautiful bill.
- 1:28:04Speaker 1: And I don't know everything that's in it, but this
- 1:28:06Speaker 1: is one thing that really stood out to me. And
- 1:28:08Speaker 1: I asked JD about this. It says, for a full
- 1:28:11Speaker 1: 10 years after enactment, no U.S. state or locality may
- 1:28:15Speaker 1: enforce any law or regulation that limits, restricts, or otherwise
- 1:28:19Speaker 1: regulates artificial intelligence models, artificial intelligence systems, or automated decision
- 1:28:25Speaker 1: systems entered into interstate commerce. Only laws encouraging use or
- 1:28:29Speaker 1: deployment of AI are excluded. That means that you won't
- 1:28:35Speaker 1: have any legal recourse against a machine.
- 1:28:38Speaker 2: Basically, like, you know how you said you want hands
- 1:28:40Speaker 2: on a wheel?
- 1:28:41Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 1:28:41Speaker 2: If now a state wants to pass a law saying
- 1:28:43Speaker 2: you got to have a truck driver on a truck,
- 1:28:45Speaker 2: you can't do that. If your state wants to pass
- 1:28:48Speaker 2: a law saying you can't have an algorithm in social
- 1:28:51Speaker 2: media that gets young girls addicted to content that makes
- 1:28:56Speaker 2: them more likely to have eating disorders? Can't do that.
- 1:28:59Speaker 1: So it's just going to be federal have the only.
- 1:29:01Speaker 2: Federal will be the only one. And you know what's... Guy,
- 1:29:02Speaker 2: do you not see how.
- 1:29:04Speaker 1: Do you not see what is at the gates?
- 1:29:08Speaker 2: And by the way, you're not going to get federal
- 1:29:09Speaker 2: legislation because the way you get federal legislation in this
- 1:29:12Speaker 2: country is... When you get a bunch of states that
- 1:29:14Speaker 2: pass legislation, then you get the industry coming to the
- 1:29:16Speaker 2: federal government saying, oh, there are too many state laws.
- 1:29:19Speaker 2: Can you just get one federal standard? But if you
- 1:29:21Speaker 2: don't have the state laws, you're never going to have
- 1:29:23Speaker 2: industry coming saying, let's get a federal standard. So it's
- 1:29:25Speaker 2: basically like, let's have AI just develop. And that is
- 1:29:29Speaker 2: the problem, right? There's the beautiful AI vision of how
- 1:29:32Speaker 2: your nephews could learn this and build wealth. And we
- 1:29:36Speaker 2: could have some people in one generation have economic security.
- 1:29:40Speaker 2: And then there's the dystopian AI vision, where big government
- 1:29:44Speaker 2: and big companies control our data, are making decisions based
- 1:29:48Speaker 2: on what predictive algorithms are telling about us, where we
- 1:29:54Speaker 2: lose control to machines. And the question is, which way
- 1:29:57Speaker 2: are we going to go as a society? And who's
- 1:30:00Speaker 2: going to benefit? Is the AI revolution going to be
- 1:30:02Speaker 2: like globalization? All the money piles up in my district.
- 1:30:06Speaker 2: We'll be sitting here five years from now. Instead of
- 1:30:08Speaker 2: $ 14 trillion, it'll be $ 50 trillion. And places like Louisiana
- 1:30:13Speaker 2: will still be shafted. Or is the AI revolution going
- 1:30:16Speaker 2: to be owned by American citizens? To me, that is
- 1:30:19Speaker 2: the whole biggest question of our society right now.
- 1:30:22Speaker 1: I agree. I agree, man. It's one of the reasons
- 1:30:25Speaker 1: why I was so grateful that you were willing to
- 1:30:27Speaker 1: come here so quick and that we're able to talk
- 1:30:28Speaker 1: about this stuff. Because I wanted to have– I don't know.
- 1:30:32Speaker 1: Sometimes I just get afraid that I'm not educated enough
- 1:30:34Speaker 1: to have certain conversations. That's what I feel like.
- 1:30:37Speaker 2: You're perfectly– you're educated to the point where it's your values.
- 1:30:40Speaker 2: And that's– I think that's actually one of the things
- 1:30:42Speaker 2: that the tech folks rely on. And it's like what
- 1:30:45Speaker 2: the foreign policy establishment relies on. It's like the old priests.
- 1:30:49Speaker 2: Like we've got some secret language, secret vocabulary. You can't
- 1:30:53Speaker 2: talk about the Middle East because you haven't studied the
- 1:30:55Speaker 2: Middle East as much as us. You can't talk about
- 1:30:57Speaker 2: technology because you don't know the math that went into
- 1:31:00Speaker 2: the coding of AI. Who cares? These aren't questions of
- 1:31:03Speaker 2: technological competence. These aren't questions of foreign policy competence. These
- 1:31:07Speaker 2: are questions of human values.
- 1:31:09Speaker 1: It's a moral. It's a moral issue. But just but
- 1:31:11Speaker 1: just to be sure to go back. So on that point,
- 1:31:13Speaker 1: we're talking about that part that's in the big, beautiful bill.
- 1:31:17Speaker 1: It will not leave you very much legal recourse. Is
- 1:31:19Speaker 1: that correct?
- 1:31:20Speaker 2: It'll leave you no legal recourse if you're a state.
- 1:31:23Speaker 2: You can't do any regulations.
- 1:31:24Speaker 1: What if you're a citizen?
- 1:31:26Speaker 2: And if you're a citizen, you have almost no legal recourse.
- 1:31:28Speaker 2: It's basically saying, look, let's trust the AI developers to
- 1:31:33Speaker 2: just develop AI. And the argument they give is, well,
- 1:31:35Speaker 2: we don't want to lose out to China. Well, you
- 1:31:38Speaker 2: know what? I don't want to live in a society
- 1:31:40Speaker 2: like China. China has a social credit score on every
- 1:31:43Speaker 2: single person. Like if you're in China, you get ranked. Ten,
- 1:31:46Speaker 2: you're a great Chinese citizen. One, you're not because you
- 1:31:50Speaker 2: didn't pay your bills, because you were rude to someone,
- 1:31:52Speaker 2: because you made fun of someone.
- 1:31:54Speaker 1: Because your karate sucks. That's just an old joke.
- 1:31:57Speaker 2: The argument can't be like we're going to stay ahead
- 1:31:59Speaker 2: of China, so let's become like China. How about we're
- 1:32:02Speaker 2: going to stay ahead of China without being China, and
- 1:32:05Speaker 2: we're going to have regulations because we're Americans.
- 1:32:07Speaker 1: I agree. And it's here now, though. People don't understand
- 1:32:11Speaker 1: it's here now, right? We can't keep kicking this. The ball,
- 1:32:15Speaker 1: I feel like we're on the goal line. We're on
- 1:32:17Speaker 1: the goal.
- 1:32:17Speaker 2: This is the thing that the tech leaders, why they're
- 1:32:20Speaker 2: so involved suddenly in politics. They understand that this is
- 1:32:23Speaker 2: the whole ballgame. Like, well, we're fighting over all this
- 1:32:27Speaker 2: other stuff.
- 1:32:28Speaker 1: Oh, where is the.
- 1:32:29Speaker 2: funding for Medicaid and taxes, all very important. They're like, well,
- 1:32:32Speaker 2: we just want the whole enchilada. We just want to
- 1:32:36Speaker 2: control data and control jobs and control the economy. And
- 1:32:40Speaker 2: these people in Washington are kind of clueless. Like they're
- 1:32:42Speaker 2: people and members of Congress, I'm not going to say
- 1:32:44Speaker 2: the names who are asking the Google CEO about the iPhone.
- 1:32:47Speaker 2: They don't know that Apple makes the iPhone. You know,
- 1:32:51Speaker 2: they're technologically illiterate and they're just being run circles around.
- 1:32:55Speaker 2: And now they're saying like, Congress, you're so illiterate, just
- 1:32:58Speaker 2: don't do anything. Don't have any regulation. Let us just
- 1:33:01Speaker 2: do everything. Like, really? We didn't fight a revolution in
- 1:33:03Speaker 2: this country to let the tech billionaires get to decide
- 1:33:08Speaker 2: our future. And I think what we need, you know,
- 1:33:11Speaker 2: FDR was a traitor to his own class. He came
- 1:33:14Speaker 2: from from New York, Wall Street Finance. He said, no,
- 1:33:18Speaker 2: I'm not going to let finance dictate America. And in
- 1:33:21Speaker 2: some ways, we need people from technology saying, yeah, we
- 1:33:25Speaker 2: love technology, but no, technologists don't get to call the
- 1:33:27Speaker 2: shots in this country. Theo's buddies get to call the shots.
- 1:33:31Speaker 2: And by the way, they got better judgment than you.
- 1:33:34Speaker 1: Or just human beings, people with some, I think, because
- 1:33:36Speaker 1: I'm not, I don't know the best morals in the
- 1:33:37Speaker 1: world or anything, but I feel like I fucking try
- 1:33:39Speaker 1: to be alive because that's what I'm sentenced to right
- 1:33:42Speaker 1: now is being alive on earth. Um, so why don't,
- 1:33:46Speaker 1: why don't, why isn't there a tech leader that comes
- 1:33:48Speaker 1: out with like, this is the app that shows you
- 1:33:50Speaker 1: exactly who's doing what. So you can, this is how
- 1:33:53Speaker 1: you start to change. Like we need something that's step-by-step
- 1:33:56Speaker 1: almost a for dummies. And I hate to say that,
- 1:33:58Speaker 1: but we've all become dumbed down by our phones and games,
- 1:34:02Speaker 1: but we need to know if we have, I mean,
- 1:34:03Speaker 1: cause I just feel like this is it. We got
- 1:34:06Speaker 1: to find a developer who's like, you know what? I'm
- 1:34:09Speaker 1: going to fucking try to save humanity.
- 1:34:10Speaker 2: Yeah. You know who we could have, and maybe you
- 1:34:12Speaker 2: should have him on here, is Steve Wozniak. He's the
- 1:34:16Speaker 2: guy who developed Apple with Steve Jobs. Cool guy? Cool guy,
- 1:34:18Speaker 2: and he's a humanist. He believes human values. We need
- 1:34:21Speaker 2: some people like Wozniak. The Woz, huh? The Woz. And
- 1:34:27Speaker 2: Steve Jobs, in many ways, was a humanist. People who
- 1:34:30Speaker 2: understand technology, but are like, you know, technology in the
- 1:34:33Speaker 2: service of human values. We're not gods. We don't want
- 1:34:37Speaker 2: to rule. I often say we need Silicon Valley in
- 1:34:40Speaker 2: the service of America, not America in the service of
- 1:34:42Speaker 2: Silicon Valley.
- 1:34:43Speaker 1: Amen. Amen. I agree. I would love to meet Mr.
- 1:34:46Speaker 1: Wozniak and talk to him. Um, okay. You campaigned for, um,
- 1:34:52Speaker 1: and I'm, yeah, I'm going back to some of my
- 1:34:53Speaker 1: charts here, but that's all right today, guys. That's where
- 1:34:55Speaker 1: I'm at. It's been a long week and it's been
- 1:34:57Speaker 1: a long, uh, life. Um, You campaigned for Bernie Sanders
- 1:35:02Speaker 1: in 2016 and co-chaired his presidential run in 2020. Yeah.
- 1:35:05Speaker 1: Is that right?
- 1:35:06Speaker 2: That's right.
- 1:35:07Speaker 1: We've asked him directly what happened. You know, and I
- 1:35:11Speaker 1: was always, I wish that they made it so that.
- 1:35:14Speaker 1: whoever won the presidency, the other, like if a president
- 1:35:17Speaker 1: was Republican, the vice president had to be Democrat, right? Yeah.
- 1:35:21Speaker 1: I wish it was like that because then it seems
- 1:35:23Speaker 1: like there would be.
- 1:35:24Speaker 2: A common ground or invited them to govern together.
- 1:35:27Speaker 1: Right. Then there has to be some sort of teamwork
- 1:35:29Speaker 1: because otherwise you outsource it and it's just, it seems
- 1:35:31Speaker 1: like it's so much more expensive. But what I was
- 1:35:33Speaker 1: going to ask you right here was, and we've asked
- 1:35:37Speaker 1: him directly what happened, but in your opinion, why do
- 1:35:38Speaker 1: you think that he lost out on the nomination both times?
- 1:35:41Speaker 1: Because I think that's had an effect on how the
- 1:35:44Speaker 1: Democratic Party has been perceived over the years.
- 1:35:46Speaker 2: The establishment screwed him. I mean, there's no doubt about that.
- 1:35:50Speaker 2: He should have been the nominee in 2020. You had
- 1:35:53Speaker 2: the whole party basically like drop out, tell people to
- 1:35:56Speaker 2: drop out and endorse Joe Biden. They resurrected Joe Biden.
- 1:36:00Speaker 2: He had lost Iowa. He came in like fourth or fifth.
- 1:36:03Speaker 2: He lost New Hampshire fourth or fifth. It's never happened
- 1:36:06Speaker 2: in the history of the party in recent history that
- 1:36:08Speaker 2: someone is losing that badly and then wins. And they
- 1:36:11Speaker 2: suddenly see Bernie is winning Iowa. He's winning New Hampshire.
- 1:36:14Speaker 2: He's winning Nevada. Unstoppable. Nate Silver had him at 70
- 1:36:17Speaker 2: percent odds to win the nomination at that point. And
- 1:36:20Speaker 2: the party just reacts and they say no. And they
- 1:36:24Speaker 2: convince Buttigieg to drop out and endorse Biden. They convince
- 1:36:28Speaker 2: Beto to endorse Biden. They convince Klobuchar to endorse Biden.
- 1:36:32Speaker 1: How did they convince them all? Was it– Funding and stuff,
- 1:36:35Speaker 1: you think?
- 1:36:35Speaker 2: Well, I think they said, look, you want to have
- 1:36:37Speaker 2: a future. You can be in the cabinet. We're going
- 1:36:40Speaker 2: to be for you. And then they're like, Bernie can't win.
- 1:36:43Speaker 2: Bernie can't win. Come on. Donald Trump just won. He's
- 1:36:46Speaker 2: talking about invading Greenland. And you're telling me we can't
- 1:36:48Speaker 2: talk about Medicare for all? I mean, like the one
- 1:36:51Speaker 2: thing that Donald Trump has shown you is like you
- 1:36:53Speaker 2: can say what you believe.
- 1:36:55Speaker 1: Anybody can win.
- 1:36:56Speaker 2: And that's like– J.D.
- 1:36:59Speaker 1: Had that too.
- 1:36:59Speaker 2: He was like, you come on. I disagree with him.
- 1:37:01Speaker 2: But you know where he stands. Like just– campaign with
- 1:37:05Speaker 2: your heart, campaign with your ideas. That's what, and Bernie
- 1:37:08Speaker 2: was speaking to people who were outsiders, who were underdogs.
- 1:37:12Speaker 2: You know, I think that's why you and I resonate.
- 1:37:14Speaker 2: I was an underdog growing up. I was not, I
- 1:37:17Speaker 2: was not supposed to be a politician. I didn't have
- 1:37:20Speaker 2: a father who was a Senator or a rich person
- 1:37:23Speaker 2: or a Congress person. Like, No one would have thought
- 1:37:26Speaker 2: this Indian kid of Hindu faith was going to have
- 1:37:29Speaker 2: any shot to get elected the dog catcher in this country.
- 1:37:32Speaker 2: But Bernie was speaking for all the folks who weren't
- 1:37:35Speaker 2: supposed to make it, who aren't making it in this country.
- 1:37:38Speaker 1: Bernie was an underdog.
- 1:37:39Speaker 2: He was an underdog.
- 1:37:39Speaker 1: That's another thing about Trump, though. Trump was also an underdog.
- 1:37:41Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? He did have part of
- 1:37:43Speaker 1: that with him. But I do think there's people that
- 1:37:46Speaker 1: love an underdog, man. Okay. Let's build the primary early, right?
- 1:37:51Speaker 1: Who should the Democrats run for? Well, first of all,
- 1:37:54Speaker 1: do you think we need to still have just Republican
- 1:37:56Speaker 1: and Democratic party? Or do you think there's value in
- 1:37:59Speaker 1: getting a big financier to support like a third party?
- 1:38:03Speaker 1: Like say if Elon Musk decided to go and support
- 1:38:05Speaker 1: a third party.
- 1:38:06Speaker 2: I think there's a value in third parties. Here's the
- 1:38:09Speaker 2: problem I have in terms of just like third parties
- 1:38:11Speaker 2: running for president.
- 1:38:11Speaker 1: A lot of times it has to be a billionaire.
- 1:38:14Speaker 2: And then you're like, okay, is that billionaire really going
- 1:38:16Speaker 2: to have the values of the working class? But in
- 1:38:19Speaker 2: terms of parties, and I'm one of the few people
- 1:38:21Speaker 2: in the Democrat party who says this, I think have
- 1:38:23Speaker 2: more parties. you know, if like the Democrats are like, oh,
- 1:38:26Speaker 2: your third party is going to take away votes from us.
- 1:38:28Speaker 2: That was like, be better. Like, it's not the voter's
- 1:38:31Speaker 2: job to vote for you. It's your job to convince
- 1:38:33Speaker 2: the voter. I never understood this with like the whole
- 1:38:35Speaker 2: Harris Trump race. They're like, well, you know, they're Jill
- 1:38:39Speaker 2: Stein is taking votes away from us. I was like,
- 1:38:42Speaker 2: her job is to run. Your job is to convince
- 1:38:44Speaker 2: people to vote for you. You know, it's like, if
- 1:38:47Speaker 2: like Apple computers wasn't selling iPhones, they're like, well, this
- 1:38:50Speaker 2: other third party company is taking iPhone sales away from you. OK, well,
- 1:38:54Speaker 2: why aren't you making the iPhone better? Right. And so
- 1:38:56Speaker 2: I think having more parties is good. I still think
- 1:38:59Speaker 2: the Democratic Party is the vehicle where we can really
- 1:39:02Speaker 2: have a progressive working class agenda. I think we've got
- 1:39:05Speaker 2: to reform it in the way Bernie Sanders was was trying. And,
- 1:39:09Speaker 2: you know, and I think and I think the Republican Party,
- 1:39:11Speaker 2: I hope, will become more anti-war, will become more working
- 1:39:15Speaker 2: class centered so that we have reform in this country.
- 1:39:20Speaker 3: Yeah.
- 1:39:20Speaker 1: I just don't know how we could keep going with
- 1:39:22Speaker 1: nothing because that's what it starts to almost feel like
- 1:39:24Speaker 1: is that we're just, we're not even getting anything. I've
- 1:39:28Speaker 1: heard you talk about the idea of economic patriotism. What
- 1:39:31Speaker 1: does that kind of mean when you say that? I
- 1:39:33Speaker 1: like that terminology.
- 1:39:35Speaker 2: My parents came to this country in the 1960s. It
- 1:39:38Speaker 2: was the time John F. Kennedy said, let's go to
- 1:39:40Speaker 2: the moon. Let's dream big. This country was humming. We
- 1:39:43Speaker 2: were building things. We were making things. We were doing
- 1:39:46Speaker 2: things for civilization. I think that's what can bring us together.
- 1:39:49Speaker 2: Let's have a Marshall Plan, not for Europe, a 21st
- 1:39:53Speaker 2: century Marshall Plan for America, where we start to build
- 1:39:57Speaker 2: new factories, new industry, new AI centers, new AI academies,
- 1:40:01Speaker 2: new universities, new trade schools. And we come together in
- 1:40:06Speaker 2: this country, white, black, Latino, Asian, to build things in America.
- 1:40:10Speaker 2: And by the way, I think that's something even some
- 1:40:12Speaker 2: of the MAGA folks could get behind. We need a
- 1:40:17Speaker 2: new national purpose. You know, in When John F. Kennedy
- 1:40:20Speaker 2: was president, 60% of Americans had trust in government. Today,
- 1:40:23Speaker 2: it's probably like down to less than 20%. And the
- 1:40:26Speaker 2: reality is, you know, we talked about the PAC money
- 1:40:28Speaker 2: and the lobbyist money, but most people go into Congress,
- 1:40:31Speaker 2: they are still, they want to do something for America.
- 1:40:34Speaker 1: Really, you believe that?
- 1:40:35Speaker 2: I do. I believe that about, you know, J.D. Vance
- 1:40:38Speaker 2: and I have gotten into arguments. I believe that about him.
- 1:40:40Speaker 1: Oh, I do too about him. I do believe that.
- 1:40:43Speaker 2: You know, I believe that about most people. Like, I
- 1:40:45Speaker 2: think they have a story about, they, they, they want
- 1:40:48Speaker 2: to do something good. The system is so broken, but
- 1:40:51Speaker 2: you know, what we need again is a vision that's
- 1:40:53Speaker 2: going to inspire us to come together, uh, to do things.
- 1:40:58Speaker 2: And I, and economic patriotism, I think would be one
- 1:41:00Speaker 2: of those visions. Like let's make a, let's redevelop communities.
- 1:41:04Speaker 1: Yeah. Me and Mike, I was talking about Mike Rowe and, uh,
- 1:41:07Speaker 1: we've kind of started to put the wheels on creating
- 1:41:09Speaker 1: like a, a place that's just American products, right? Where
- 1:41:12Speaker 1: you go to Boston, it's just American, you know, start
- 1:41:15Speaker 1: to see what that would look like. So, That would
- 1:41:17Speaker 1: be really interesting to have like a new American kind
- 1:41:19Speaker 1: of QVC, but all this stuff is just American stuff.
- 1:41:24Speaker 2: One of my bills is actually to give a tax
- 1:41:26Speaker 2: credit at the end of the year if you keep
- 1:41:27Speaker 2: your receipts and buy American. So look, you buy an American. glass,
- 1:41:32Speaker 2: American book, you get to deduct it on your taxes.
- 1:41:35Speaker 1: I love that. I mean, I love that. And also,
- 1:41:38Speaker 1: if we just didn't give money to some of these
- 1:41:40Speaker 1: other places and stuff, I think we'd have a lot
- 1:41:43Speaker 1: of money for people. Yeah, it's funny that American manufacturing
- 1:41:45Speaker 1: doesn't even seem to be a part of the Democratic
- 1:41:47Speaker 1: talking points anymore.
- 1:41:48Speaker 2: Which is so ironic because FDR industrialized the whole country.
- 1:41:52Speaker 2: You know, the tragedy I would say of Elon Musk,
- 1:41:54Speaker 2: who I've known, is that he could have been Bill Knudsen. Now,
- 1:41:58Speaker 2: I know you like American history. Bill Knudsen was this
- 1:42:00Speaker 2: guy who was running GM.
- 1:42:02Speaker 1: K-N-U-D-S-E-N?
- 1:42:04Speaker 2: K-N-U-D-S-O-N. And you can look him up. And he was
- 1:42:08Speaker 2: running GM and FDR says, you know, we need you.
- 1:42:12Speaker 2: We need you to build American industry. We were making
- 1:42:15Speaker 2: a thousand planes a year. Within a few years, Bill
- 1:42:18Speaker 2: Knudsen takes it to 300,000 planes. And instead, I mean,
- 1:42:23Speaker 2: the tragedy in my view of Musk is he was
- 1:42:25Speaker 2: undermining and destroying like the NIH and the All these
- 1:42:28Speaker 2: agencies where what we needed is someone to come in
- 1:42:31Speaker 2: and say, let's industrialize this country. Let's work with labor
- 1:42:34Speaker 2: to build new industry, new jobs. The Democrats did that.
- 1:42:39Speaker 2: I don't understand how we let Trump become the made
- 1:42:42Speaker 2: in America guy. We need to be the party that says,
- 1:42:45Speaker 2: here's our vision for making things in America. And wouldn't
- 1:42:48Speaker 2: it be great if the argument in this country was
- 1:42:50Speaker 2: who was going to build America better? And like Trump's like,
- 1:42:53Speaker 2: here are my ideas. And we were like, here are
- 1:42:54Speaker 2: our ideas. And maybe you take the best of those ideas.
- 1:42:57Speaker 2: But how about a common goal again? Like I think
- 1:43:00Speaker 2: the country is exhausted. We're embarrassed. They see all of
- 1:43:05Speaker 2: us in Congress. And I'm guilty of this too sometimes.
- 1:43:07Speaker 2: And we're arguing and name calling. And they're like, yeah,
- 1:43:11Speaker 2: but my life. Like I can't afford a house. My
- 1:43:15Speaker 2: kids aren't going to have the same job I did.
- 1:43:17Speaker 2: I don't know where I'm going. I don't know what's
- 1:43:19Speaker 2: happening with this country. Like just get your act together
- 1:43:22Speaker 2: and get some direction that's supposed to be the greatest
- 1:43:24Speaker 2: country in the world and start working together on Team America.
- 1:43:27Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's– the dream is fading, I
- 1:43:34Speaker 1: feel like. And I don't want to be a pessimist,
- 1:43:36Speaker 1: but I don't– I feel like– I don't want to
- 1:43:39Speaker 1: say the dream is fading. I don't want to say
- 1:43:43Speaker 1: that it feels like we don't all have the same
- 1:43:47Speaker 1: dream that's fading. That's the part that sometimes feels like
- 1:43:50Speaker 1: it's fading. It used to be that you'd go to
- 1:43:52Speaker 1: bed at night and it felt like you all had
- 1:43:54Speaker 1: this universal dream, you know, I think.
- 1:43:56Speaker 2: Yeah, I think– and we've lost that. Like what is
- 1:43:58Speaker 2: the common American dream? And one, we're so divided, right?
- 1:44:03Speaker 2: Life is so different for some people in Silicon Valley
- 1:44:06Speaker 2: than it is for folks who are like, how am
- 1:44:07Speaker 2: I going to pay my medical bills? How am I
- 1:44:09Speaker 2: going to pay for rent? How are my kids going
- 1:44:12Speaker 2: to have a decent job? And the other thing is
- 1:44:15Speaker 2: that we lack a common sense of vision. Like what
- 1:44:18Speaker 2: are we doing as a society together as Americans? And
- 1:44:22Speaker 2: I think if we get people talking about that, and
- 1:44:25Speaker 2: that's why I say a Marshall Plan, economic patriotism, rebuilding
- 1:44:29Speaker 2: this country. And that doesn't mean old factories. Like it's
- 1:44:31Speaker 2: going to be the new modern factories, new industries.
- 1:44:34Speaker 1: Well, I think people– it's also going to get weird
- 1:44:36Speaker 1: if people– some of the greed doesn't end, that people
- 1:44:38Speaker 1: are just going to want to see the rich start
- 1:44:39Speaker 1: to suffer. And that's when shit can get really weird.
- 1:44:43Speaker 1: That's when you start getting people into revolutionary thought. But
- 1:44:46Speaker 1: then maybe, who knows? Maybe we just slowly drift off
- 1:44:51Speaker 1: into the ether of our sofa with Cheez-Its on our chest.
- 1:44:55Speaker 1: I don't know. Some man with fake breasts laying there
- 1:44:58Speaker 1: eating Cheez-Its and just drifting into the ether of existence.
- 1:45:02Speaker 1: That would be sad. But I hope that's not our
- 1:45:05Speaker 1: Paul Revere, right? I hope that there is still a
- 1:45:08Speaker 1: lot of people who believe in something. And I think
- 1:45:09Speaker 1: there is. And I think there's people that want something new.
- 1:45:13Speaker 1: I'm glad that even just saying– asking Mike Johnson for
- 1:45:15Speaker 1: help with that thing. I think that that's neat just
- 1:45:18Speaker 1: because I didn't even know that we could do that.
- 1:45:22Speaker 1: What was it? Anything else we wanted to talk about?
- 1:45:24Speaker 1: We're almost there. Let me see. Oh, one thing that J.D.
- 1:45:28Speaker 1: Vance said that was really interesting the first time I
- 1:45:30Speaker 1: spoke with him was he said that a lot of
- 1:45:34Speaker 1: congresspeople and representatives will go– turn over to be– or
- 1:45:39Speaker 1: senators– will turn over to be lobbyists because they don't
- 1:45:42Speaker 1: get paid enough by the government type of situation. Is
- 1:45:46Speaker 1: that true? Take me down a little bit of that
- 1:45:48Speaker 1: discussion where the salary is better being a lobbyist than
- 1:45:54Speaker 1: it is to be on this side.
- 1:45:56Speaker 2: Well, he's absolutely right. And it's terrible what happens. I mean,
- 1:46:00Speaker 2: you are in Congress, you're working on the Armed Services Committee,
- 1:46:04Speaker 2: overseeing defense contractors. Then you'll retire and suddenly you'll become
- 1:46:10Speaker 2: a lobbyist for the defense industry. You'll go from making $ 170, 000
- 1:46:14Speaker 2: a year to making a million dollars a year. And
- 1:46:17Speaker 2: that's why I have a bill. It's called the Drain
- 1:46:20Speaker 2: the Swamp Act or my political reform act. And it
- 1:46:22Speaker 2: says ban members of Congress from ever becoming lobbyists. Now,
- 1:46:26Speaker 2: you know, Harry Truman won World War II. He did
- 1:46:29Speaker 2: more than anyone in Congress put together. And he started NATO.
- 1:46:34Speaker 2: And Harry Truman at the end of his presidency, the
- 1:46:36Speaker 2: guy who wins World War II, sets us up for
- 1:46:39Speaker 2: the post-World War II order, writes to someone when he
- 1:46:44Speaker 2: was invited to give a speech. He said, I'm a
- 1:46:46Speaker 2: little embarrassed. Betsy and I can't afford the train ride.
- 1:46:50Speaker 2: Can you pay for the train ride? Happy to give
- 1:46:53Speaker 2: the speech, right? It used to be he went into
- 1:46:55Speaker 2: politics not to get rich. And I don't begrudge people
- 1:46:58Speaker 2: who are wealthy. There are a lot of people who
- 1:47:00Speaker 2: are wealthy, but you shouldn't be in public service to
- 1:47:03Speaker 2: make money. And afterwards, you can do a lot of things.
- 1:47:06Speaker 2: Go do something in AI.
- 1:47:08Speaker 1: Go do something.
- 1:47:09Speaker 2: Don't go and lobby. Don't become a member of Congress
- 1:47:14Speaker 2: who's just going to cash out by lobbying. It's something
- 1:47:17Speaker 2: I will never do, but it's also a ban we
- 1:47:19Speaker 2: should have. And maybe we can make that a bipartisan effort.
- 1:47:23Speaker 1: I don't see how it couldn't be because every human
- 1:47:25Speaker 1: wants it on both sides. So I don't see why
- 1:47:29Speaker 1: it just keeps happening. And yeah, if you're good at
- 1:47:31Speaker 1: your job of being a congressman or a senator, are
- 1:47:34Speaker 1: they different ones?
- 1:47:34Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
- 1:47:35Speaker 1: Then afterwards you could do a tour at all the
- 1:47:38Speaker 1: donut shops. You show up over there.
- 1:47:40Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 1:47:40Speaker 1: People pay in a heartbeat to show up there, take
- 1:47:42Speaker 1: photos and stuff, get a hug or something, get a glazed.
- 1:47:48Speaker 2: Just the one thing they shouldn't do is start a podcast.
- 1:47:50Speaker 2: Politicians' podcasts are terrible. they're like so boring some tried
- 1:47:54Speaker 2: it yeah and i mean it's just kind of because
- 1:47:56Speaker 2: it's like so stilted and it's not there's no humor
- 1:47:59Speaker 2: you gotta have some humor like you know the politician
- 1:48:01Speaker 2: by the straight guy you need someone who's funny you
- 1:48:04Speaker 2: need like this conversation it's kind of all over the
- 1:48:06Speaker 2: place it's not it's not like oh wow what are
- 1:48:09Speaker 2: the poll numbers on this and so it's just uh
- 1:48:12Speaker 2: i've never seen a politician who had a good interesting podcast.
- 1:48:15Speaker 1: Yeah i think that that would be a bit much
- 1:48:17Speaker 1: maybe but i don't know shit i mean anybody could
- 1:48:19Speaker 1: do it Sorry for saying shit right in front of you, sir.
- 1:48:21Speaker 2: Oh no, not at all.
- 1:48:22Speaker 1: Well, I should have done better.
- 1:48:23Speaker 2: No, not at all.
- 1:48:25Speaker 1: Oh, um, I did have this question though. We were
- 1:48:27Speaker 1: talking about that. Um, you voted in the past about finances. Um,
- 1:48:30Speaker 1: you voted in the past to ban members of Congress
- 1:48:33Speaker 1: from trading and holding individual stocks. this hasn't happened yet, right?
- 1:48:37Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 1:48:38Speaker 1: Why do you think that hasn't happened? You know, like
- 1:48:40Speaker 1: if Martha Stewart went to prison, then Nancy Pelosi should
- 1:48:43Speaker 1: go to prison, it feels like, you know?
- 1:48:45Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that Pelosi, in my view, I mean,
- 1:48:49Speaker 2: this has done things that are unethical. But I think
- 1:48:53Speaker 2: that there is this such a trust deficit in the
- 1:48:56Speaker 2: Congress that people think that the biggest problem is money
- 1:48:59Speaker 2: in politics, right? They're taking all this money from PACs.
- 1:49:02Speaker 2: They're taking all this money from lobbyists. But at the
- 1:49:05Speaker 2: same time, people are concerned if members of Congress are
- 1:49:08Speaker 2: individually trading stock. And so the bill I've supported calling
- 1:49:12Speaker 2: for a ban on stock trading is a no trust act.
- 1:49:14Speaker 2: And it says, you know, put your money in a trust.
- 1:49:17Speaker 2: Have someone else manage it. Don't be there trading stocks.
- 1:49:22Speaker 2: or telling your advisor to trade stocks while you're creating
- 1:49:26Speaker 2: a conflict. And why haven't we gotten a vote? I
- 1:49:30Speaker 2: don't know. I think Johnson can get us a vote on.
- 1:49:34Speaker 2: I think it would pass overwhelmingly, and we've got a
- 1:49:37Speaker 2: bipartisan group that's pushing for a vote on that. But
- 1:49:40Speaker 2: if you do the five parts of my political reform plan,
- 1:49:44Speaker 2: ban PAC money, ban super PACs, ban lobbyists from getting money,
- 1:49:49Speaker 2: Ban members of Congress from ever becoming a lobbyist and
- 1:49:52Speaker 2: ban stock trading in Congress. I think you would start
- 1:49:55Speaker 2: to restore trust in Congress. And some of the MAGA
- 1:49:59Speaker 2: folks actually have liked the plan the most. I had
- 1:50:01Speaker 2: a Drain the Swamp Act, which I said, you want
- 1:50:04Speaker 2: to drain the swamp? How about just telling lobbyists they
- 1:50:05Speaker 2: can't give gifts to White House officials? And someone's like, oh,
- 1:50:09Speaker 2: you only wanted to apply for Donald Trump. No, I
- 1:50:10Speaker 2: was like, I wanted to apply whether it's Donald Trump
- 1:50:13Speaker 2: or a Democratic president.
- 1:50:14Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, all of the things you're
- 1:50:17Speaker 1: saying seem very, like, I think these are things that
- 1:50:22Speaker 1: are super important. I feel like it's things that most
- 1:50:24Speaker 1: people feel are super important and that's, but, but it never,
- 1:50:27Speaker 1: what happens? It's like, it just like, we talk about
- 1:50:30Speaker 1: these things. Everybody's like, yeah. And then it gets to
- 1:50:33Speaker 1: some place where it all, nothing ever really evolves, it
- 1:50:36Speaker 1: feels like. And that's where I feel like we're at now. Instead,
- 1:50:39Speaker 1: Hollywood gives us like, here's a ditty case. Go, you know,
- 1:50:42Speaker 1: keep the black population at ease, you know, like, or
- 1:50:45Speaker 1: here's a, you know, we'll stretch the NBA finals another week.
- 1:50:50Speaker 1: We'll send in a special ref that- Are you for
- 1:50:51Speaker 1: the Pacers? Allegedly, I'm for the Pacers. I like Halliburton.
- 1:50:55Speaker 1: I think he's just a super guy. But, yeah, I
- 1:50:58Speaker 1: know it just, it feels like it never gets there.
- 1:51:02Speaker 1: You had- Let me see. My producer would also– you
- 1:51:05Speaker 1: have a– but your family owns stock or you had
- 1:51:08Speaker 1: stock in your family before you got married? Yeah. How
- 1:51:11Speaker 1: does– how would that relate into a congressman or senator owning.
- 1:51:16Speaker 2: Well, under the Trust Act, people can– members of Congress
- 1:51:20Speaker 2: and they can be in a trust. They just can't
- 1:51:23Speaker 2: trade stock. They can't trade stock. And that– I think
- 1:51:26Speaker 2: that's why I've sponsored the bill. I think that we–
- 1:51:29Speaker 2: what we want to do is eliminate– conflicts. And if
- 1:51:33Speaker 2: you can have the No Trust Act happen, it says
- 1:51:38Speaker 2: members of Congress cannot trade stock. If there are any assets,
- 1:51:42Speaker 2: they put them in a trust and that would eliminate conflicts.
- 1:51:45Speaker 2: But what is upsetting to people is people making trades
- 1:51:51Speaker 2: while they're doing policy. And that's where the conflict is.
- 1:51:54Speaker 2: The federal employees currently aren't allowed to do that. They
- 1:51:57Speaker 2: have to have their money in some trust. Yeah.
- 1:52:00Speaker 1: Yeah, because it would almost be– ethically it doesn't make sense,
- 1:52:04Speaker 1: but it would be hard not to. You're in a
- 1:52:05Speaker 1: meeting and you're hearing about this or that to get
- 1:52:07Speaker 1: on your phone and get on your app and make
- 1:52:10Speaker 1: a trade. Heck, if I'm watching a SportsCenter highlight or
- 1:52:13Speaker 1: something and I see one of the players has a
- 1:52:14Speaker 1: cough or something, I'm betting against that team the next night.
- 1:52:18Speaker 1: If I see Walker Bueller, if he seems like he's
- 1:52:21Speaker 1: angry about something the next day, I'll probably bet he
- 1:52:23Speaker 1: has a few more strikeouts.
- 1:52:25Speaker 2: Look, I think the honest truth is there are not
- 1:52:27Speaker 2: many Pete Roses in the Congress. There are not many people,
- 1:52:29Speaker 2: honestly– who are out there trading on information. All my parties,
- 1:52:35Speaker 2: for example, going after Marjorie Taylor Greene, and she says
- 1:52:38Speaker 2: that she's got an independent advisor who's making the trades.
- 1:52:41Speaker 2: I actually believe her. I believe her. But the problem
- 1:52:43Speaker 2: is that the perception that has been created is that
- 1:52:48Speaker 2: people are benefiting from this. So just pass the No
- 1:52:52Speaker 2: Trust Act. It's got bipartisan support. People, if they have assets,
- 1:52:57Speaker 2: they can put them in a trust, they can have
- 1:53:00Speaker 2: it independently managed, then you know that they're not sitting
- 1:53:02Speaker 2: there making trades or telling people what to do.
- 1:53:06Speaker 1: Can they legally advise the trust advisor?
- 1:53:09Speaker 2: They can't in day-to-day trading. They can set it up,
- 1:53:14Speaker 2: but they can't tell the trust advisor, okay, trade here,
- 1:53:17Speaker 2: trade there, and it has to be all disclosed. And
- 1:53:21Speaker 2: that would assure the American people that you don't have
- 1:53:24Speaker 2: people out there trading on stocks in a way that
- 1:53:29Speaker 2: they can't.
- 1:53:29Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, the craziest thing is I just thought
- 1:53:32Speaker 1: sometimes one of the benefits of the surveillance system would
- 1:53:35Speaker 1: be that finally we get to see what all these
- 1:53:38Speaker 1: senators and congresspeople and everybody's up to, you know? Right.
- 1:53:41Speaker 1: I wish you could just tell us, like, do a–
- 1:53:45Speaker 1: I wish you had a breathalyzer for if people were
- 1:53:47Speaker 1: being honest or not. That's what we need. That's what
- 1:53:50Speaker 1: we need.
- 1:53:50Speaker 2: There you go. You know, they have reinforced the lie
- 1:53:54Speaker 2: detector test. Next time I'm on, maybe I'm going to
- 1:53:56Speaker 2: have to like do a lie detector.
- 1:53:58Speaker 1: Take that back to, uh, to a Silicon Valley with you. Um,
- 1:54:00Speaker 1: Ro Khanna. That's your name.
- 1:54:03Speaker 2: You got that. You got the pronunciation.
- 1:54:05Speaker 1: Perfect. I'm getting better. Uh, yeah, I got to get
- 1:54:07Speaker 1: India once. I went to Madras one time and had
- 1:54:09Speaker 1: a really great time. Uh huh. Really loved it. A
- 1:54:11Speaker 1: lot of, uh, excitement, energy in the faces of the,
- 1:54:14Speaker 1: in the eyes, uh, in the smiles of the people
- 1:54:16Speaker 1: there thoroughly enjoyed it. Um, Best of luck to you, man.
- 1:54:19Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on and talking. Keep us out
- 1:54:22Speaker 1: of Iran unless we're already there. I know we've been
- 1:54:24Speaker 1: on the air for a couple hours.
- 1:54:27Speaker 2: With Massey, we're going to do it together and with
- 1:54:29Speaker 2: your advocacy. And keep up your voice. It gives me
- 1:54:32Speaker 2: hope that we got people like you out there just
- 1:54:36Speaker 2: speaking from your heart. And don't let anyone say you
- 1:54:39Speaker 2: don't know what you're talking about. You know a lot
- 1:54:41Speaker 2: more of what you're talking about than a lot of
- 1:54:43Speaker 2: the people running this country.
- 1:54:45Speaker 1: But thank you so much for your time. Appreciate you.
- 1:54:48Speaker 3: Now I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel
- 1:54:52Speaker 3: I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone.
- 1:54:59Speaker 2: Oh, but when I.
- 1:55:00Speaker 3: Reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found.
- 1:55:04Speaker 2: I can feel it in my bones.