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Drought, Pumps, and the Money Nobody Budgets For · Rural-E

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, welcome.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to the Rule E podcast today.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: And this is real stories from people, actual people working out in the rural areas and talking about some of the rural energy systems they're working on.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And no politics, just what we're just what works and what doesn't work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so today I've got with me here in the studio I've got Michael Clues.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Michael and I have done a couple of shows together.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you'll see more of Michael as we uh as we do more of these podcasts and everything.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then joining us today, we've got one of our partners that we work with a lot, and uh Brad Moore.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And Brad's a certified energy manager, and he has been working in the agriculture sector.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of our work that we've done traditionally has been in the ag sector.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so Brad does a lot of work with irrigation systems and been working in this field for a number of years and such.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so we'll we'll dig into some of those details here with Brad.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: But hey, welcome, Brad.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us today.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks for taking time out to kind of share some information.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: We we look forward to learning from you today.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Good to see you, Robert and Michael, as always.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, I'm excited to jump into this and share some ideas and thoughts.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So Brad, why don't you why don't you start out?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just like tell us a little about a little bit about yourself and you know, how did you get to where you're at today?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, kind of an energy specialist, a certified energy manager, uh, working, you know, in the Pacific Northwest here, working with a lot of the farmers and such around irrigation and and uh and other projects.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it has been a bit of a journey for me to arrive at where where I am today career-wise.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll start from I went to college at Oregon State University in Corvallis.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a proud uh beaver alumni.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I studied industrial engineering there.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, I worked for an organization called the OSU Energy Efficiency Center.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a program or is a program that is funded by the U.S.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Department of Energy.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's an industrial assessment center, is kind of the more general term for it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I got started learning about energy systems and energy efficiency at that time, mostly in industrial settings.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that gave me a lot of experience with talking to folks about energy efficiency and trying to find solutions for people to save energy and cut costs.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So through my time studying engineering and working at that energy efficiency center, yeah, I picked up a lot of the skills that I use today.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when I graduated college, I I didn't think that I wanted to pursue a career in energy.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was planning to kind of take a pivot there.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked uh two different jobs in kind of the manufacturing sector and eventually wanted to change again, and and that led me back to the energy world.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I when I accepted my previous job where I started doing this work that I'm doing now with uh agricultural energy efficiency, I was doing a combination of industrial and agricultural energy efficiency work.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I had accepted that job, I was thinking that I was mostly going to be working with industrial sites, and that was more of what I was targeting at the time.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then the agricultural part just kind of presented itself as an opportunity, and lo and behold, I enjoyed that part of it enough to uh to really pursue it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm really happy where I'm at today with you know being able to work with farmers and ranchers and learn about kind of the things that they're struggling with and try to find solutions for them, mostly in the way of energy efficiency, but also you know, reducing their costs, saving water, uh, that sort of thing.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: So in the in the agriculture sector, you know, what types of projects or what areas do you typically focus on?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are the big energy, you know, energy projects in agriculture that you're really focusing on?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what I focus on mostly is helping folks to save electrical energy.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: On farms, there's a lot of different uses of energy.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's electrical, there's likely diesel fuel or gasoline use.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some farms may have uses of natural gas, like if they're heating greenhouses or buildings.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so most of my work these days is focusing on saving electricity for folks.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: The if we save other energy sources, that's an added benefit, of course.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to focus a bit, at least to start, on electrical energy.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the largest energy user on a lot of the farms and ranches that I work with is their irrigation pump.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as I'm I'm sure you're aware, there's a lot of farms and ranches that that pump their water.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Some don't have to pump.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that takes away that energy source.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I mostly work with the folks who have an irrigation pump or perhaps multiple irrigation pumps.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And although electrical energy might be used in in other parts of their farm or ranch, uh, we focus on the pump and finding ways to save energy there.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a couple different ways to do that.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Point to to maybe start this conversation is to acknowledge that energy is basically a use of power over time.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I'm discussing this with folks and explaining how they can save energy, in a general sense, what they can do is one of two things.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: They can reduce the amount of power that they need, like instantaneous power, or they could reduce the number of operation hours of their equipment, such as their pump.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And there are multiple different measures or opportunities that I find that people could do one or both of those energy reducing activities.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there's maybe two different categories of on-farm upgrades that can save electrical energy.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: One type of upgrade would be at the pump station itself, and then the other type of upgrade would be the downstream irrigation system and trying to improve the efficiency there.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we can we can start with talking about the pump systems.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Some folks pump water from uh from a surface water source, like if they're able to pump from an irrigation district canal, or maybe they have a holding pond, maybe they're able to pump directly from a creek or a river.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Those are all like surface water sources.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's other folks who pump what we usually call groundwater, and that's usually pulling water from a well.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are different types of pump systems that work for those different applications.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Some folks are able to irrigate with a single pump to serve their irrigation system, and some folks have multiple pumps.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's different configurations of these pumps, and to make an already long story short, perhaps, there could be efficiencies to be gained by simply consolidating those pumps.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they have multiple where at some point it made sense to have, say, a pump to lift the water and then a booster pump to add pressure to that water, or maybe they had a reason to be pulling from two different sources simultaneously and joining that water in the larger irrigation system.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: If they're able to consolidate multiple pumps to a single one, that could save them a lot of energy in some cases.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Similarly, if folks are able to get away with using a smaller pump, that could be a very easy way to save energy.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: I say easy because it's it's kind of a, you know, instead of using a 50 horsepower pump, maybe they use a 25 horsepower pump.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that concept is kind of simple, and I realize that that costs money.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm happy to be able to do is to help inform folks about opportunities like that, because it's possible that people are using their irrigation pump that they've been using for a long time, you know, maybe 20, 30, 40 years that that same pump has been used.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if they've done upgrades to their system that might change the the requirements of their pump station, and changing the pump to match that can actually have a lot of efficiency gains.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: The one other big topic with pumps that I want to discuss is variable frequency drives.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people are aware of variable frequency drives.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: We call them VFDs, and basically it's an electrical component that is connected to the motor that drives the pump.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the VFD is able to speed up or slow down the pump by controlling the motor, and therefore it can basically deliver water however the farmer wants it to.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the farmer can choose a pressure set point in that VFD will adjust the speed of the pump to match the demand.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if folks have variable demand in terms of flow and or pressure of their system, a VFD can be a very helpful way to control the pump and also often saving energy.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's kind of a lot about pump systems.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead, Robert.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was just gonna say you talked, you know, you're talking about irrigation and the irrigation pumps being a large electrical demand for for these farms and such.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked a lot about the pumps, and then you talked about these variable frequency drive, but we've seen a lot more of the variable variable frequency drives, VFDs, I would say really the last 10 years being installed out there.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's you know, definitely an energy savings component to that and everything.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: But what else are you seeing out there?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, in the last 18 months, like what's what's some of the more popular types of projects you're seeing for farmers that are trying to be more energy efficient?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And let me let me back up.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: We also know that, you know, like right now we're we're in, you know, a pretty, pretty dry period, a drought period, and this whole connection on irrigation, this water energy nexus.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you could talk about that a little bit.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as you're as you're looking at projects to the farmer, I guess what I'm trying to find out, is it just about energy savings?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is it about the efficiency of the water?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is it labor?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it just improving a system on farm?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, kind of what are you seeing out there in your in your travels and with your site visits and such?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, certainly.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a very good segue into talking about how to save energy by making the the irrigation system more efficient.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm seeing a lot of folks who are interested in installing drip irrigation, and a lot of folks are interested in installing center pivots.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And those are two irrigation systems that that uh we generally consider more efficient than other options.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there are many types of common irrigation systems that we we call baseline systems, and these are things like uh a big gun, a traveler, wheel lines, hand lines, solid set sprinklers.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those are generally less expensive, but also less efficient systems.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that compared to systems like drip irrigation or micro sprinklers or pivots or linears, even.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there are a lot of these more efficient systems that people are interested in installing now.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, those kind of upgrades come with a pretty big price tag.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So these can be really big projects and really big considerations for the landowners or the producers.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And like you mentioned, yeah, much of our state is in uh gosh, I f I don't know the exact drought declaration uh level right now, but over the past several years we've been in a state of drought.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I'm curious if you have the latest on that.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think the latest numbers I've seen in July 2026, and I think 19 of the 36 counties in Oregon have an official state-declared drought declaration.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, a lot of these, you know, a lot of the water studies we've looked at and stuff are talking about, you know, all-time low.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen pictures of the water resource folks up in the high cascades, you know, in February, and they took the snow cat up there, but where there traditionally was feet of snow and they've they've still got the snowcat loaded on the back of the trailer, they drove up with the pickup and trailer, there was no snow.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the snowpack issues and stuff.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that it's impacting a lot of the farms and you know, water availability.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just, you know, just kind of interested in when you're talking about efficiency, are you talking energy efficiency, water efficiency?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you could kind of dive into that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then just briefly, why, you know, how is a drip system more efficient than a wheel line system?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you can like help explain a little bit on, you know, whether it be drip or I think you mentioned pivots or or lineal movers, why are those more efficient and how?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Great questions.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So these type of upgrades, these system upgrades, are are pretty neat in the way that they can be expected to save both water and energy.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: They save water by applying the water more efficiently.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if folks are targeting a certain amount of irrigation, you know, different crops have different water requirements, and that depends on a lot of factors.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but just to keep it kind of simple for now, if folks are targeting a certain level of irrigation, they will have to pump more water if they're using one of those less efficient baseline systems, such as a big gun or wheel lines or you know, impact sprinkler systems.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So those systems they have relatively lower application efficiency.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's the term that we use for how efficiently is water applied to the crop.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And sources of water loss that can degrade application efficiency include evaporation, wind blow off, uneven distribution, or even if water is running off of the field.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of ways that water can be pumped and you know put through a sprinkler, but then it may not end up where the farmer intends it to.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of these losses happen because the water is is in the air, and maybe there's a bunch of fine droplets that can easily be evaporated or blown away.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you'd have to look too far to find examples of folks who are irrigating a big field with maybe a big gun where it's shooting water, you know, a hundred feet just way up in the air, far out, or even something like a wheel line that has impact sprinklers on it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: In both of those cases, if you look closely, you might be able to see the water droplets actually being blown if there's any breeze or any wind.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that can have a lot of negative consequences.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it can result to uneven uniformity in terms of irrigation, so the crops can suffer from that.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: It also uses more water and more energy than necessary or than would be necessary with a more efficient system.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I want to start to explain these upgrade systems that we consider more efficient.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And to use maybe the most efficient example, let's let's go to drip irrigation.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: So if we compare drip irrigation to what I was just describing with big guns or or impact sprinklers, drip applies water right where it's needed.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And when you look at a field that's irrigated with drip, you'll notice that it's often the water is delivered through small pipes or tubes out that are in rows along the field.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you looked closely, you could see water just kind of dripping out of those tubes through what we call emitters.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so the water just drips and it's being delivered right where it needs to be.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's not being thrown in the air where it could be evaporated or blown off, it's applied at a slower rate, but more precisely.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so drip systems tend to have very high application efficiency rates.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Another very efficient irrigation method that I mentioned earlier is center pivots, or like you said, lineal movers, which are similar to pivots.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the the modern pivots and linears, they often have drop tubes.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll see on the machine there's like kind of rubber hose-looking things that drop down off of the main pipe of the pivot or linear, and on the bottom of that tube, there's a sprinkler.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this allows the water to be delivered closer to the ground.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the common sprinkler packages these days, they have the sprinklers about maybe six or seven feet off the ground, and so there's kind of a spray pattern that these sprinklers deliver to try to get, you know, uniform coverage over the field.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: An upgrade that folks can do with pivots or linears is they can actually drop those sprinklers down lower to the ground.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: These kind of systems we often call LISA or LIPA, and those are low elevation spray application or low energy precision application.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: These can be very effective in some cases to reduce the amount of pressure needed for irrigating and also to improve the application efficiency.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So those are a few options for these uh more efficient systems that we're trying to help folks to implement where it's appropriate.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're kind of midway through the irrigation season right now.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're in, you know, say mid-July time period.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are some things that an irrigator, a farmer could look at doing yet this year to, you know, a lot of times we say make the most of every drop, you know, water short, what are just, you know, are you seeing some particular things that you think would be of interest out there, you know, as you're already started in the irrigation system that you could you could get done this year and still make an impact?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, certainly.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: There are options like that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: These these larger system upgrades that people do, like if they're converting to drip irrigation or a center pivot, those are often upgrades that require a lot of construction to do.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they often do those kind of upgrades at the the beginning or the end of the irrigation season, so in the spring or fall, usually.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so your question is good like what can folks do right now?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: We know that a lot of parts of the state are short on water.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so farmers and ranchers are are interested in conserving water where they can.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these these folks want to save these valuable resources because they know that it's important, and it's these are resources that they rely on year after year.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So there are some ways that that folks can make the most of the water that's available this season.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: A few of those include uh kind of maintenance type tasks on their existing systems.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they could keep an eye out for things like leaking gaskets, worn out nozzles.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: There are different types of sprinklers that folks can consider.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I've been talking to several folks about recently is switching from using impact sprinklers to rotating type sprinklers.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just talking to someone earlier today about this.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And what this looks like is if folks have wheel lines, hand line, solid set, those type of irrigation systems that commonly have impact sprinklers on them, there may be an opportunity to replace those impact sprinklers with rotating type sprinklers.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So impacts are common, commonly brass sprinklers, and like I mentioned before, they're they're commonly used and and they work, but they may also be a source of losing water.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So certain irrigation companies have come up with designs of different types of sprinklers, such as these rotating type sprinklers that are they look different than an impact.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're um they're plastic, and instead of creating a stream of water that's broken up by that impact action that you you see on impact sprinklers, these rotators they emit a concentrated stream of water that tends to do better in windy conditions, and in some cases it it almost looks like they kind of cut right through the wind.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're they're not as easily blown away or evaporated, and there's a mechanism in that sprinkler that slowly rotates around.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: There are a few different benefits to making this change from impacts to rotators, one of which is that you'll likely see better application efficiency of your water, and you might be able to run your system at a lower pressure with those rotators.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's something I've been pointing out to folks as something to try.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people who've tried using those rotating sprinklers, they really like them.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's it's neat to be able to share the success stories of folks when they when they try out something like that and they like it, then spreading that message can help kind of inspire folks to to do similar actions or or to know that um this could be something that's beneficial to consider.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm just sitting here kind of smiling to myself as you were talking about that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I know the plastic rotator type sprinklers, a lot of our old school farmers, they're like, oh, it's not as good as the metal ones, it's the brass ones.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and I would always tell them that, like, you know, if they were thinking about uh trying them out, you know, take one wheel line or one set and and put them on there and see if they work.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't go convert the whole farm, you know, make sure it's gonna work for you and stuff and stuff.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do you, you know, kind of your experience of working with folks, you know, whether it be converting to a new type of sprinkler or stuff or you know, new type of sprinkler or a VFD or whatever, you know, kind of we call it, you know, looking across the field.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it seems like a lot of times in farming, they're always looking across the fence to see what's working for the neighbor, the next guy, and stuff.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if you know what your experiences of that have been, uh, what you would recommend to someone that's looking at, you know, putting rotators on or even moving forward with the variable frequency drive.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do they, you know, get get to test drive it, you might say, or how do they learn more about though about these newer technologies or newer sprinklers that are out there?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent question.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I get calls from people often who who say that they got my info from someone else that I worked with.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's their neighbor, so that's that kind of looking over the fence uh element that you talked about, or you know, maybe it was their brother or their cousin or or whomever.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um they call me up and they say, Oh yeah, so and so said that I I should reach out and talk to you about, you know, efficiency upgrades.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's one way is I think that there's just a word of mouth element here where you can you can look over the fence or you can talk to your neighbor or your family members who are also in ag and and sharing the stories.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's I think there's a lot of that casual storytelling going on, but there are also organizations that that publish success stories and case studies.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is another cool way to to share, share the successes of others.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: One uh other way that I think is is very effective is field tours.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've been on several of these field tours in different parts of the state.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they're put on by a multitude of different organizations.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe it's Oregon State University Extension Service, maybe it's the local soil and water conservation districts, let's see who else.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Different crop growing commissions, like, you know, the hop grower group or blueberry grower commission or different groups like that.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: They might have tours where you can go and visit other farms or other ranches.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those are really neat events because it's a good way for the ag community to get together.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So just simply bringing folks together can help because it it facilitates more of that conversation.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So there's kind of that organic story sharing in that case.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also helpful because it it puts folks at these farms or ranches where upgrades have been made, or or maybe the landowner at at the farm or the ranch has tried something different and other folks may be questioning the value of some of these changes or may not know they exist.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if you go and visit the site where it's been done, you can hear the story, you know, from the mouth of the person who's done those kind of changes or trials and and hopefully see the success that that they've had with it, and it may inspire people to try similar things.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's that's been my experience too.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think you and I can share our knowledge about something, but if it's another farmer telling this worked or didn't work, the pros and cons, boy, that that's such a powerful thing, I think, for folks.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: They really want to know from the people that are using the product, you know, no matter what that is.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's so important too to touch it, feel it, see it, you know, trying to get that that more information out if it's going to work or not and stuff.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if we can shift a little bit into and just kind of at a real high level, you know, as you've talked about a number of different potential uh projects or uh, you know, technologies, you know, variable frequency drives and sprinklers and pumps, but you know, that all comes with a cost.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think, especially right now, I mean, we're all seeing, you know, the agriculture sector just seems to be getting hit from every angle with labor issues and all their inputs are up and the price of diesel and and the commodity prices are down and stuff.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the finances, the capital needed to make these projects happen are, you know, what where do you even look, I guess?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm hoping maybe Michael, you can, you know, between you and Brad here, we kind of talk about this for just a minute.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are what are the like the the first few resources you would look for, maybe assistance with the to fund or to help with some cost share on these types of projects?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think maybe short term and long term is kind of what we'd have to think about it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, Brad, you listed off a few things.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think you were talking about sprinkler hardware and and gaskets and that, you know.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So where, you know, where would you see, you know, how do you where's a farmer look?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're busy farming every day.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they're not necessarily keeping track of the various different programs that are out there, but I don't know if we could talk about that for a few minutes and kind of brainstorm a little.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh shall I start?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why don't you Brad Mark you can off and Michael?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you've yeah, I know you work with some farmers in the area and stuff on some of these programs too.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe we could just talk about that real quick.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll start there.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are often grants or cost share type programs that that can help folks cover some of the costs of these upgrades.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like you mentioned, Robert, the the type of upgrades that you might be able to get financial assistance, it ranges all the way from those smaller upgrades like replacing gaskets, replacing nozzles, replacing sprinklers, those type of maintenance type items that that are commonly done in the field.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, often there are rebate programs through the electrical utility.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: So folks might be able to do these small upgrades and then apply for a rebate to get some money back for the money that they spent to do that.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there are these programs exist because you know, someone has realized that there's a lot of value in offering people a little bit of money to help cover those costs to motivate them to do these kind of actions.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, whether that's you know, these kind of maintenance type uh replacements or doing a larger system upgrade, in both cases, it's worth checking with your electrical utility and uh and seeing if there might be some incentive money or or grants available.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Often that's a good question to ask, you know, your preferred irrigation dealer as well.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, those folks, they they work with a lot of different customers and they often are connected to the programs that might be able to provide that kind of financial assistance.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this has become, I think, a very important part of our work is identifying different sources of assistance for people.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: When I talk to people about, let's just say putting in a center pivot, that's an expensive upgrade and often may have other uh upgrades that need to go along with it.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe there's some mainline additions or upgrades that need to be done with installing a pivot.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that just brings the the price up.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And often when I talk to people about doing these upgrades, they they say, okay, what grants or cost share programs are available?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, who's gonna help me pay for this?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and that's why I think it it's important for folks like us who are talking to a lot of ag producers.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important that we are aware of the different programs that are available and we can help make those connections.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: The other place that I normally um look to is local soil water conservation districts and see what available programs that they might have, in addition to kind of your long-standing uh NRCS natural resource conservation service programs.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: They've got a lot of available options for, especially for irrigation.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then the program I work most closely with is under USDA rural development that allocates funding for energy efficiency improvements.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I think what I tend to look at is not only are these projects saving energy, but they're saving water in a lot of cases too.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes your preferred funding source under an energy umbrella might also benefit you from a water standpoint.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of trying to look outside the box, um, outside of just traditional water funding and maybe look at some other avenues and see how those dollars could could still benefit your project, even if it's not under your normal space.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think I think that's a good point.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that ties back to earlier conversation about the the what we call the water energy nexus.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so our mindset typically is looking at energy efficiency with the work we do.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of times we're matching up the water money.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of times you mentioned like the NRCS and one of their popular programs is called EQIP, and that seems to, you know, I always say they break the bring the biggest wallet to the table because usually they they have more substantial funding than some of the utility rebates and stuff like that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it's water money, you know, same with uh some of the other state programs, it's it's really around water conservation.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the things we'll do here in at a future podcast is talk about fund stacking and really dive into some of those details and stuff.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, I think from what I'm hearing from Brad, utility, utility rebates, in general statement, you know, no matter who or who's providing your power, whether it's a cooperative or an investor-owned utility, there's some sort of a program, an energy efficiency program that you could pursue.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I always relate it to a lot of a lot of folks are more familiar with their home, you know, programs for windows and heat pumps and water heaters and insulation.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is the same type of program except for it's specific to irrigation.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So there's all those programs, Michael.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about NRCS with equip.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times we're we're looking at you know what the priorities are in the specific geographic areas and where they're focusing on irrigation efficiency.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: You also mentioned conservation districts and conservation districts, soil water conservation districts or or conservation districts in general.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes they're applying for other grants for, I think usually what I see is water savings.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know some of the conservation districts have cost share programs and such.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we can sometimes provide some information or efficiency upgrade looking at the baseline compared to what they're what they're trying to install and and and estimate some water and energy savings numbers.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: It typically helps those guys with those programs.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh just real briefly, you'd mention the USDA reap program.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I think with that, I think it's it's more for the larger projects.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily for someone that's wanting to take a look at putting a new sprinkler package on their pivot or what have you.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be for a larger scale type of project.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've uh helped some of the farmers go from diesel pumps to connecting to the grid and putting electric pumps in, a lot of solar projects with that funding and stuff.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think maybe the the thing to note is just there's a lot of different programs out there.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Start asking, start asking the brads of the world, start asking your irrigation vendor if you're talking to uh farm service agency or NRCS or the conservation district, start asking them about what programs may be available and stuff.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else, Michael?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: That yeah, I think just each of those funding sources kind of comes with different timelines.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: So be cognizant of when you want your project in the ground, and then recognize that sometimes utility rebates might be a lot quicker than some of the federal programs.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: So knowing how long your timeline is going to be and if you need this in the ground right now, or maybe you can prepare over a couple irrigation seasons.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Brad, what what would you say to that as far as if someone's looking to do a project?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: What's the first thing they should do, I guess, if they're interested in funding?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because a lot, you know, can they just go out and get started and go on and then apply for the money later?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, if you want to speak to that just real briefly and kind of high level.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would recommend looking at the programs that are available before you go too far down the road.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these programs have pre-approval requirements or there may be a process to go through.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean that it's it's always like a very rigorous or intensive process.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that these programs have rules.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's helpful for these programs often to know about a project kind of as early as possible, you know, if if I'm being really general about it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I would recommend is look into programs at the same time that you're talking to your irrigation dealer, irrigation vendor company.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because if you're doing a larger project like a system upgrade, for example, usually the program will want to see the design and the quote from the vendor in order to determine how much assistance is available and to fully understand the project.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, talk to your vendor and look into available programs, get in contact with the folks who deliver those programs.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, the folks like us, they we want to help.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we're we're out there to help guide you through these processes and uh applying for different assistance.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, thanks for that, Brad.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is there is there anything else we're missing?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else we should be asking you about that would be important to kind of get information out there?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's see here.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I've been really into thinking about the efficiency of pumps lately.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I like I mentioned earlier, you know, a lot of the irrigation pumps out there might be really old, and it might be worth considering how is that how's that pump functioning?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: How does it fit the current system?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's something that I've found really interesting lately is with these old pumps, maybe they work just fine, but maybe there's efficiencies to be gained by having that pump, you know, repaired in some way, or maybe even replacing it, which I know can come with a large price tag, but again, there might be assistance through some of these programs.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: So looking at these pump systems and trying to uh to create a good match between the pump and the downstream system, um, I found that to be a pretty, pretty interesting topic and and relevant for the folks that I talk to in the field.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And Brett, I know you've, you know, you've done you've been doing a lot of pump tests.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: You've traditionally done a lot of walkthroughs with the farmers and irrigators on their sites, you've been doing a lot of the flow test and stuff like that.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think that would be great for a future episode is like, what do you find?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see uh you know as you're up there?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what you're talking about, you know, is the is the technical design of the pump and how it how it's set up to operate and then how that compares with that what they're actually doing and everything and stuff.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, I we I think we could dive into that and have a whole ser a whole uh podcast just talking about pump efficiency and pump curves and that type of thing.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing that comes to mind, and I'll just kind of leave this out there, I and I believe I heard a study through like the one of the pump organizations or associations, and that when you look at the total cost of ownership of a pump, only 10% of it is the upfront cost.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, meaning that a lot of the cost of the pump is the operating of it, essentially the electricity that you use over time, over the lifespan of that pump.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so trying to make sure you have the most efficient system or buy the most efficient pump that you can afford going into it, I think is such a key thing.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh electric prices, we all know, they keep increasing.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's more uh more and more expensive to irrigate, and uh and so try and you know, it just increases the level of what we want for efficiency and everything.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: So anything else, Michael, we want to make sure we we capture in today's today's episode?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think we really covered just broad overview on irrigation.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Brad, anything, any closing comments you want to make sure we you you get out there?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I've I've made a lot of the points that I wanted to, and uh, you know, I think what's on my mind now is like you said, what what can we talk about next?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: What's gonna be the next episode?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, please keep me on your list as a you know a friend of the pod, uh a repeat guest, and I think we'll have plenty to share.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and I appreciate you taking the time today, Brad, to join us and uh share some of your knowledge and your experiences.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's great for us to hear, you know, kind of what you're seeing out there, and you know, definitely look forward to having you back on.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're gonna be a regular of the show and uh kind of our irrigation expert, irrigation specialist and stuff.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so as you see things, make note of it and come back and tell us about it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, tell us some of these things that are working or maybe some things that aren't working out there and uh and stuff.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: We'd definitely love to hear that.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, Brad, thanks again for joining us.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Michael, thanks for joining me on this show here.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with that, we'll call it a wrap.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you guys.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, thank you both.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: This was a lot of fun.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to doing together.