Latest / aiEDU Studios / What Is STEM Education Actually For? — with Dr. Patrice Johnson of Project Scientist

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What Is STEM Education Actually For? — with Dr. Patrice Johnson of Project Scientist · aiEDU Studios

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: The stats are will will suggest that it is not that girls are not good at STEM.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's the confidence around, can I do STEM?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Which is more a cultural issue where we have consistently said that a scientist looks like the guy from Back to the Future and not like me, right?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or other women.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like, you know, the guy with the white lab coat.
• 0:29
  Alex Kotran: Let's let's let's let's just kick things off.
• 0:32
  Alex Kotran: Um, why don't you start by introducing yourself and and then maybe just like sharing a little bit about Project Scientist?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I am Patrice.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: My team calls me Dr.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: J because I am a girl who likes basketball and I just feel like that's good company.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I lead the dream team.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Project Scientist is a uh not just an organization, but we're a part of a larger movement of folks who want to see girls confident and leading boldly, um, whether it's in STEM or any other field.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so our cornerstone is STEM.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: We want girls to be creative and innovative, and we like to say um disruptors in the STEM space, right?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but even more than that, um, that they feel like they can lead.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and I think that part of that mission and the reason why I'm in the role that I'm in is because it matches who I am, that I uh wanted to lead and was bold enough to do it at 22 years old, 21 years old, graduating from Michigan State, going back to my hometown and boldly putting my name on the ballot to say, I'm gonna run for office.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I did.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I served for four years, and we made great things happen in my hometown.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think that every girl should have that undeniable confidence to be in the space to lead.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's even more important right now when I think our country has essentially told girls you could actually be overqualified for the role.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: But we decided to go this route and not, if I'm if I'm being very candid, not elect uh uh women presidents, right, versus other countries in the world.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: The U.S.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: is number 44 out of all the countries in the world.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: We are 44 in regards to having women serve in leadership capacity.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we we have the facts and the details around.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm rambling so bad right now, Alex.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just talking about you're not rambling.
• 2:42
  Alex Kotran: No, this is important.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know who's number one and number two?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Rwanda and Cuba have the I would not have guessed that.
• 2:50
  Alex Kotran: I would not have guessed that at all.
• 2:51
  Alex Kotran: I know Iceland has a female prime minister.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes, yes.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Nambibi N Nambia just also elected a female head of state.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what we know about women who lead is that they lead from a space that considers holistic policy.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's exactly what we need in this climate.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: We cannot just consider whether or not people have access to one thing.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: We have to consider the whole person.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote this article called The Equity Mirror back in November about what it would look like for a woman to lead in in the US.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was going to be a way for us to see what it was gonna challenge everybody's view of equity.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think in our psyche, particularly as Americans, we assume that leadership looks like white, rich male.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what was that gonna do for us when the ultimate form of power now is incredible is feminine, you know?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been challenging this idea of what leadership looks like, that it does not necessarily look like, or I should say this nurture is a form of leadership, but we don't we don't accept that form of leadership because it comes in a different form.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: It comes in more more than likely a feminine form.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: But as a as a man, you can be a nurturer.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that mean for you to nurture your team and to develop your team in a space of safety?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I say all of that to come back to Project Scientist, which is my heart around our girls can be creative in the STEM space.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: But when they walk out the door, I also want them to feel like I can be a very bold leader.
• 4:36
  Alex Kotran: Well, it's interesting because the the there's a there's a conversation happening right now about well, AI can do all this stuff that we traditionally assumed people in STEM were gonna do, things like writing code or doing deep research.
• 4:50
  Alex Kotran: First of all, I think the jury's still out as to whether that's even the case.
• 4:53
  Alex Kotran: Um the AI can help to write code, can it do it completely by itself?
• 4:58
  Alex Kotran: No.
• 4:59
  Alex Kotran: Will it eventually we'll see.
• 5:01
  Alex Kotran: But it is actually forced, I think, folks in the STEM community to step back and ask this question of like what is the role of STEM education if not just imbuing students with like you know marketable skills.
• 5:15
  Alex Kotran: And I think there's like just this a lot of the talk on education is kind of uh it treats students as like resources.
• 5:21
  Alex Kotran: It's like we need to like, you know, that this like the workforce readiness, it can be it can be seen through the lens of like, oh, empowering kids so that they can get great jobs, but it can also be seen through the lens of like companies need human capital.
• 5:32
  Alex Kotran: I mean to develop that capital for those companies.
• 5:35
  Alex Kotran: What you're describing is STEM, but but really in uh with a broader lens or broader aperture, that's about some of the other components of uh being prepared.
• 5:46
  Alex Kotran: And so you're you're identifying leadership as kind of that core.
• 5:49
  Alex Kotran: Um and I can think about a lot of the pieces that go into that.
• 5:52
  Alex Kotran: I mean, when you think about what you see as missing in school today, um what are some of the the types of mentalities or or skills that Project Scientist focuses on?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first I wanna you you just said something so powerful to me is that this shift, even in the way organizations are changing from a DEI focus and trying to fit into this this new lens, workforce development, to your point, is absolutely aligned with companies saying, Well, we need folks today to fill this pipeline, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Which is absolutely a capital perspective, not whether or not people are whole and feel full in their lives, which I mean, if we wanted to break this all the way down, let's go back to the key components of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: That has nothing to do with fulfilling your workforce development, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I'm gonna like are we really talking about people having the aspect of joy and the fullness of living and actually pursuing purpose?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think so.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: When you ask, what is it that the educational institutions have to consider?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: If we were really tearing the whole thing down and rebuilding it, we would not separate community from school and school from community.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what that looks like to me is considering the whole human being and their essence of being human.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Project Scientists, our lens is, you know, one of the things that our folks always say to us is this is the joy bubble.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: When you walk into a session, when you're engaging with students, when you come to a staff meeting, there is this space of joy.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And joy does not have to be absent of other components or of resilience or struggle, but joy is a constant, you know, it acknowledges that we are pursuing radical justice in a time where people feel depleted and hopeless, but it is the constant factor.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that joy allows our girls to learn more freely, to feel more liberated in their learning journey, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's what I enjoy most.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's what we bring to school partners is this this bright light in the middle of a space that is not necessarily as bright as we would like it to be right now.
• 8:24
  Alex Kotran: Because the schools where you work, they're overwhelmed, they're having significant issues with student absenteeism, students feel disengaged, or there are just situations in their life that make it really hard for them to be present at school.
• 8:42
  Alex Kotran: Can you just like paint a picture?
• 8:43
  Alex Kotran: I mean, like what are the experiences like for girls who are a part of project scientists?
• 8:47
  Alex Kotran: Is this an after-school program or is it like something that happens in the summer or during school?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, we're with we're with our students year-round.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, whether that's in the fall, after school, fall and spring, and after school programming in the summer, we do collaborative uh steam camps with corporate partners throughout the summer and multiple multiple uh, I was gonna say countries.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we do have a program in Mexico, but you know, throughout the country.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the things that I really love, so I was at camp yesterday and I asked a student, I was like, so what are you learning?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so this this term we're doing fashion sustainability, which they are enjoying, they are loving this theme.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a fashion girly myself, so I'm also loving this theme.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh she says, We're helping people.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, How are you helping people?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: She was so excited about it, which is a part of the curriculum, there's always this layer of leadership, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Of how we're getting girls to think critically and solve their community problems and things of that nature.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so when her first comment to me was, we're helping people, I say, yes, this is working.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then she elaborated, and they part of their um their designing of clothes and and looking at textiles and upcycling and things of that nature, is also creating clothes that are more accessible for people who have disabilities.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and she spoke about that so clearly, and it just it lit me up, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then I vividly remember last year at camp when a student said uh hers, we they drew on these little boards.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, when I met Project Scientist, I'm not sad.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Which was to me like, okay, we're doing the work that we need to be doing.
• 10:29
  Alex Kotran: Have you have you seen schools start to adapt or sorry, uh like implement maybe some of the best practices?
• 10:37
  Alex Kotran: Like, is there any sort of like uh cross-pollination?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's it's funny because my team and I were just talking about this.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: We are relaunching one of our programs.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the Elevated Institute, which allows teachers who may not necessarily be a part of our program to learn the project scientist difference, right?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do you foster belonging in your classroom?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: How do you um teach STEM from a racial gender equity standpoint?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so that's the way in which we are trying to share, you know, the way that we do what we do with teachers across the country, um, and also providing teachers with community.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the institute is not a one-off piece.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: If there are a couple of components with the institute where every teacher has an action plan.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So when they come, we we want to see your lesson plan, we want to help you work through it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is not just a, you know, sometimes you go to a to a training session and you don't walk away with anything.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: You might feel inspired for, you know, a couple days, but what are the tangible tools that you can go back to your classroom and say, let me pull this back out, let me utilize this.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if I need a refresher, I know the project scientist team is going to meet with me or they have an option for me to connect with them on a monthly basis.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I can get that refresher.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's one of the ways that we are trying to essentially spread what we learn, what we know, and essentially who we are with folks who um are also like-minded.
• 12:04
  Alex Kotran: Yeah.
• 12:05
  Alex Kotran: I mean, that's the I mean, that that is a theory of change, and I think this is the power of nonprofits being able to come in and sort of push education in dimensions where they don't necessarily have the capacity or the support to do for themselves.
• 12:25
  Alex Kotran: I was talking about the um because like part of this is like schools teachers know that there's a lot that they are not having the opportunity to integrate into the classroom.
• 12:39
  Alex Kotran: They have lots of required the content and standardized tests.
• 12:44
  Alex Kotran: When you think about like the folks that you recruit for project scientists, I mean are they are they generally former teachers?
• 12:50
  Alex Kotran: Like, what is the profile of someone um who's like really effective at this like sort of combination of STEM education plus leadership development?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is people that that I the folks that I have I think been drawn to the most are people who have either one seen themselves as a scientist at one point and took a different path, and or folks who resonate with going down the path of becoming or engaging in the STEM field and being one of the only.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so women who would say, I was the only such a woman in my cohort of, you know, at my in my class at whatever school, you know, uh it was just me and one other woman, or it's just, you know, so they still have such a connection to understanding what that journey was like.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that is one of the things that I think fuels our work.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, part of the program model is connecting to uh women mentors for the girls.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they are oftentimes really surprised when they meet someone who is the chemist behind the lotion that they use, and she looks like them.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's it's been it has not been a struggle for us to find those type of folks because they are drawn to the work.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I think part of the reason that they are is because uh their own personal journey in STEM as a woman.
• 14:19
  Alex Kotran: The importance of having that experience with the journey and understanding like what it looks like to get there.
• 14:24
  Alex Kotran: Um you mentioned that you ran for office.
• 14:27
  Alex Kotran: Are you willing to dive into that a bit more?
• 14:29
  Alex Kotran: What was the position you ran for?
• 14:32
  Alex Kotran: So running for office is kind of a crazy experience.
• 14:36
  Alex Kotran: Most people do not even fat could not even fathom what is involved.
• 14:39
  Alex Kotran: Um, they just see you know candidates maybe on TV, or if you know, or maybe someone goes to their door.
• 14:46
  Alex Kotran: Um but if you can peel back the curtain for us.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: That was such a uh interesting season.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was literally so um uh idealistic.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I had just gra I graduated from college in May.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: I went to a public policy school, and I I think at the time I was actually supposed to be going to seminary.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't supposed to go back home.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm not going to seminary, which is another very, very weird story.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I went back home and I was just really frustrated with what I was seeing in my own hometown.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it was nothing good comes out of this city, basically.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, in my mindset, I was like, I'm I'm gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna put my foot in the door and I want to help.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: So in May, I graduate in August.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: I get the paperwork and in the you you go to City Hall, you get the petition, you get your signatures, and we ran a great campaign.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: We ran a great campaign.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: My mother was my campaign manager.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: My donations came from uh college friends.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I still have little$25 checks from with a Hello Kitty checkbook that my friend and undergrad had, and they were and they sent, you know, um all they could send.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we were just fresh out of college at the end of a few recession years.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is 2011, um, 2010, 2011, and I took, I probably ran that campaign on like 500 bucks, honestly.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and my my grandmother would let me go into her her office and and print pamphlets and you know, it was very, very homegrown, very homegrown.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Every Sunday morning putting leaflets out on cars and uh um, you know, go into the local paper, which ironically I worked at that newspaper when I was a high school student.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I said I was running, um, they gave me, I'm sure I earned it, but they, you know, I got their um endorsement, which was really cool.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, my mother and I dressed in all black the night you can put your signs out, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we we had put our signs all over the city at like one o'clock in the morning.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So when people woke up, they saw the elect Patrice Johnson signs.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was a good time, but the campaign is not to be compared to actually doing the work.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so once we once I got elected, I was on city council for four years.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: The first year I was a councilwoman, the second year I became vice mayor and I was on the finance committee.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And this is in the season where Michigan had uh Governor Snyder who was doing the emergency financial management policy, and almost every black community in the state of Michigan had an emergency manager, and so we were able to avoid a deficit to not have an emergency financial manager.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I sat on this council, I'm 20, 22 years old.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: My high school dean is the mayor, and my high school counselor is also, it was crazy.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: My high school counselor is also a council person.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh it was just very I learned a lot, and I do think in those four years, we could say we kept the city out of a deficit, we invested in young people, we maintained at the time there was also a lot of controversy around resources in regards to water, and we had a kept our water filtration plant.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I probably went from being 21 to like 55 in those four in those four years, you know.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that was that.
• 18:28
  Alex Kotran: And what what did you study in college?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Social policy.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so all all things, um, well, I mean, at the time immigration is still ironically, immigration is also really important now, but it was social my so my degree is cynically in social politics, social policy is what they call social relations and public policy, is what they call it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so all things race, gender, class, and and and the policy implications, historical analysis.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I would I was studying things like um uh the Federalist Papers and Um Tocqueville.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um so most people go into pre-law with that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I honestly I just got think I just looked up because I loved it.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love I still love it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of my favorite books when affirmative action was white, you know, uh uh whiteness of a different color, um, you know, uh uh the social contract theory is is probably one of my favorite things.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm nerding out, Alex.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't see myself as a scientist.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, mind you, I went and got a doctorate, which is social science to the to the core, you know, doing mixed method studies and and interviews and and and qualitative methods and all those things.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's technically a form of science, right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: But but people don't necessarily see that as a hardcore science, right?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a chemist in a lab, you know.
• 20:04
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, it's funny because I also studied um political science, but it was a lot of I was a history buff.
• 20:12
  Alex Kotran: And so I took a lot of classes that were sort of like socio-political history.
• 20:18
  Alex Kotran: I also kind of jumped around.
• 20:20
  Alex Kotran: I took like uh, you know, political history of Brazil part two.
• 20:24
  Alex Kotran: So I missed part one.
• 20:26
  Alex Kotran: Um and it's it's hard to know exactly.
• 20:30
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I don't know about you, but I have no doubt that my education has really helped and inform my work, but it's also you know, a lot of the skills that I really use day to day are like a lot more generalized and like coming back to Project Scientist, um as you think about sort of the trajectories of the girls that you work with.
• 20:52
  Alex Kotran: I mean, do you think all of them are actually destined for STEM?
• 20:55
  Alex Kotran: Or do you see STEM as sort of like the domain where you build some of these leadership skills, but you actually have girls maybe going on to other other things that you have any pre like girls that want to go into pre-law?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I think absolutely, I think that the majority of the girls will potentially pursue STEM, but uh so I'll say this.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: My my vision is that uh when I'm I don't know, 55 years old, and I my dream is that a girl from Project Scientist will win like the Nobel Prize in Chemistry or something like that.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that is my absolute dream.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I I do believe that a lot of our students will pursue science or some form of science.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm also excited about girls being a disruptor, being a leader in whatever capacity they choose.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the beauty of the work is giving them access.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Both to the technical skill set around science, but also to the bravery to be able to choose whatever they want and to be bold about whatever choice that is, whether they are the only person in that particular class or whether, you know, whatever the case may be, it's it's about like fostering, because I think you and I both know that the stats are will suggest that it is not that girls are not good at STEM.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's the confidence around, can I do STEM?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Which is more a cultural issue where we have consistently said that a scientist looks like the guy from Back to the Future and not like me, right?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or other women.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like, you know, the guy with the white lab coat.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and case in point, yesterday again, I was at one of our great partners at our camp yesterday in Charlotte, and um I saw a older woman, an older African-American woman with her beautiful locks, and she was in the lab with like all of the um all the devices.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was so cool to see.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I and it made me feel like a little girl because I have never seen, you know, this is this particular partner does they have a lithium mind and they they source lithium, and she had like, you know, those speaker things, and it was like a bunch of them up on the wall, and she was pouring something into one thing, and it was so and I'm like at the window doing like this, hey, you know, like what are you doing?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so, can you, you know, so so I've got 50 girls who are seeing this, uh, and I am feeling like an 11-year-old thinking this is so cool.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: What is she making?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it just it sparked something different, even as a grown woman, versus back to the future.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're both history buffs.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: So back to the future used to be one of my favorite movies, you know.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Love back to the future.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but nobody in Back to the Future really looks like me, you know.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Biff didn't look like me, obviously.
• 24:06
  Alex Kotran: And uh do they even have any main characters that were women?
• 24:10
  Alex Kotran: I'm trying to even I can't think of one.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: This not outside of the love interests, you know.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or or even the funny movie.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even the funny movie Weird Science.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember that movie where they made their own uh Weird Science?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: You haven't seen Weird Science?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's another really great.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: These are like early 90s movies.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now we gotta do a whole podcast of early 90s movies because you haven't seen this movie, Alex.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: You have to watch it.
• 24:38
  Alex Kotran: With like Anthony Michael Hall and um Kelly LeVo.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: They basically create their own woman.
• 24:44
  Alex Kotran: Oh, Robert Downey Jr.
• 24:45
  Alex Kotran: is in it.
• 24:46
  Alex Kotran: Okay.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Come on now.
• 24:47
  Alex Kotran: I'm Oh god, okay.
• 24:50
  Alex Kotran: Okay.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so yeah, but I I mean I'm gonna be.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the what's the plot?
• 24:58
  Alex Kotran: They they're they so what is the plot of this?
• 25:02
  Alex Kotran: They concoct a woman?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like they make their they create their own woman and they become very, very popular because everybody thinks that that's their girlfriend or their so-and-so, and it's a thing.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a thing, but it's a it's a funny movie.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's I mean, it's in the same canon of like Sweet 16 or or 16 Candles and The Breakfast Club.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's that whole genre of films.
• 25:30
  Alex Kotran: Got it.
• 25:30
  Alex Kotran: A little bit of coming of age.
• 25:32
  Alex Kotran: Yes.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: If I if I wasn't working for project scientists, so the so the woman in that movie is the she's not the scientist, she's not the scientist.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, she's the creation.
• 25:46
  Alex Kotran: She's the experiment, yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: The experiment again.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: We can go on and on about this.
• 25:58
  Alex Kotran: I mean, maybe going back to pop culture, what are some movies, what are some movies, or or maybe let's say broadening the lens to like sort of any example in pop culture where you think they get it right, where there's like just like the right representation.
• 26:13
  Alex Kotran: Because like there's movies where there are women, but it like to your point, it's like there's off there often the love interest.
• 26:19
  Alex Kotran: Um anything come to mind that kind of does a good job of like it's not just guys that do that.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I think Black Panther does a good job because um the sister is a phenomenal scientist, right?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: In in both of those movies, the first movie and the second movie.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And in the second movie, both she and the young lady that goes to MIT and is basically light years ahead of everybody else in her skill set.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, which I think is so phenomenal.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, in the second movie, um uh she creates the tool that finds vibranium and nobody else can do it.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: So now she's a she's a CIA, CIA.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: The CIA is not trying to track her down because this is such an important weapon, you know.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And here she is, a freshman or sophomore at MIT, knowing how to do this and doing it easily, which I love because my favorite Avenger period is Iron Man, simply because Iron Man technically had no real like physical prowess like everybody else.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: He had to use his brain to create his power.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same thing with her.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: She actually now has a um, there's a Disney channel.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: We can you know I can talk about pop culture all the time.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's a Disney Channel show about her called Iron Heart now.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just watched maybe the first episode, so I'm gonna see how it goes.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the same thing with her.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: You she her her power is from her her brain, how how she thinks, how she creates, which I think is phenomenal.
• 27:49
  Alex Kotran: It's so funny because you yeah, I mean, as you've been describing that, I've been actually trying to think about movies where that is the case, where it's not just a woman's seductive skills.
• 28:03
  Alex Kotran: Because there's lots of that, right?
• 28:04
  Alex Kotran: There's lots of like women who like leverage their their bodies, um, or or just or seduction, but it's like but it's different from sort of like using your brain and like leveraging knowledge.
• 28:17
  Alex Kotran: Um and then the examples I can come up with, the woman is the villain.
• 28:21
  Alex Kotran: So like I think of like Game of Thrones, you have like Xerxes, yeah.
• 28:27
  Alex Kotran: Um, and even um uh the the the drag the woman with the dragon, what's her name?
• 28:32
  Alex Kotran: Daenerys.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um Daenerys, yeah.
• 28:35
  Alex Kotran: Isn't it Daenerys?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is it is Daenerys.
• 28:38
  Alex Kotran: She was and she had this character arc where you're like, oh wow, this like powerful like female protagonist, and then they they finish, and it's like nope, antagonist.
• 28:47
  Alex Kotran: Yes, I was like, oh yeah, okay.
• 28:49
  Alex Kotran: But there's also okay, uh uh Gladiator, the OG gladiator.
• 28:53
  Alex Kotran: Um, actually, no, the the sister is she's sort of like conflicted, but you can tell that she wants to be good.
• 29:05
  Alex Kotran: But I would say I would say gladiator one, she's still a love interest.
• 29:09
  Alex Kotran: It's sort of a weird, creepy love interest because it's like a brother.
• 29:12
  Alex Kotran: She's a love interest.
• 29:12
  Alex Kotran: All of that.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: But you got it right with Daenerys because even the way she starts out leading, she's a protector, she is a fierce protector, and then all of a sudden she she turns into the she burns everybody down.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's something to be curious about too, because I think what happens where sh you know she internalizes her own trauma and it comes out that way because she initially, I think it's honestly because they killed off her folks, you know, a couple of her main folks, but that doesn't really give an excuse for the for the way that that was written or how her character turned out.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: But to my point, I actually think that that's the way I envisioned most leaders to be, which is she really protected, she she took the folks who were enslaved in in Game of Thrones, that whole, and they all end up becoming her army.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then she gave them the choice.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, you can stay with me, and I'll take good care of you, or you can go.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is a free will thing.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna force you to serve me, which I think made her such a great leader in that film.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then to your point, uh, at the end, it was everybody, everybody dies.
• 30:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:30
  Alex Kotran: I mean, I it I it is really fun to sort of go down uh, you know, pop culture, um, and we could probably talk about this for hours.
• 30:36
  Alex Kotran: Uh, and we should, next time we're in the same city.
• 30:39
  Alex Kotran: Um I I don't think pop culture is sort of like a distraction.
• 30:42
  Alex Kotran: I think part of when I think about my own experience as someone who could have gone into STEM, I'm gonna I guess I'm glad I didn't.
• 30:50
  Alex Kotran: I you know, everybody has their own path.
• 30:52
  Alex Kotran: But going into STEM when I was in school, it was like you were you were kind of opting into the whole vibe.
• 30:59
  Alex Kotran: It's like, oh, are you gonna be one of those math kids and you're gonna hang out with the math nerds?
• 31:04
  Alex Kotran: We didn't even have computer science, so I but like I'm sure it would have been the same, the same group.
• 31:09
  Alex Kotran: Um and you know, it's it's like when you're in school, that it's really meaningful.
• 31:16
  Alex Kotran: Your identity matters a lot.
• 31:18
  Alex Kotran: It matters, and it's and like what matters to you in school is way more than just you know, what is my career path?
• 31:25
  Alex Kotran: It's like who are the friends that I'm gonna spend time with?
• 31:29
  Alex Kotran: Um and so I'm thinking about that paired with now the media that you're consuming, and so you kind of create this sort of you're almost like deciding for kids by defining what these sort of paths entail.
• 31:47
  Alex Kotran: What do you like, what needs to happen?
• 31:48
  Alex Kotran: I mean, Project Scientist, you know, well, I I think your organization needs to grow.
• 31:54
  Alex Kotran: Um and for for any funders who are listening, I assume that you have some big ambitious ideas about how you could scale your work.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I scared my team yesterday.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: What else?
• 32:07
  Alex Kotran: Like, what are the other can what are the other conditions?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like um the conditions for growth.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I think well, you you raise a really good point around the identity for for as my VP of programmers will say for kiddos at that level.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: As much as we claim to understand what Gen Z and this new generation are experiencing, I don't think we really do.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because the impact of social media, the impact of uh living in unprecedented times, I mean, is it's just so many things are exasper exacerbated.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that I don't know if we fully grasp what we need to do as educators to meet them where they are, which is why one of the things that we do is we we have focus groups with our students to try to get a feel for what the true need is.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean we just didn't Alison, we were I I remember my freshman orientation at Michigan State, and they were like, don't get on the Facebook when it was still the Facebook, right?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we did not fully get emerged into a social media age in middle school and high school, and and how um that impacts self-esteem, how that impacts cultural identity, right?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And to add other social and political dynamics to the world that we're living in, I think we have to be a little bit more intentional and observant around meeting specific needs of students and allow them to teach us just as much as we're teaching them.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think in addition to that, we have to consider holistic learning, that we can't separate uh what we do from the reality of how people are living and experiencing everyday life, right?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah.
• 34:11
  Alex Kotran: Yeah, that's really that that's powerful.
• 34:12
  Alex Kotran: It's it's uh I mean I feel like it's a great a great place to wrap up.
• 34:17
  Alex Kotran: I'll I'll I'll give you like sort of a chance to sort of share anything else that we might have missed.
• 34:22
  Alex Kotran: Um and then for folks who are listening and want to learn more, maybe you can help, like, where should they go?
• 34:27
  Alex Kotran: Um but first is there anything else that you that you want to share?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I can't believe you were in Detroit and didn't let me know.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: And two, uh, the next time we do a podcast, uh your homework is watching weird science.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I expect Alex to We're gonna do a whole podcast on weird science.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and and yeah, I I expect to see your next op-ed needs to be I watched weird science and here's what I learned.
• 34:58
  unknown: Okay.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's it.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love for people to follow us.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're on LinkedIn, we have our website, projectscientist.org.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we we just closed applications for new partners.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: We have we had more than enough, which I'm so excited about.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have all of our partners right now for the fall that we'll open it back up for spring.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're engaging in a few new cities this fall.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the elevated institute is going to be in the Twin Cities on August 6th with Google.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so, if folks want to come and learn about what we do and and and you know, want to be a part of our community, that's a great way to join.