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Savannah Guthrie Mom Missing: Week 10 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing.
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Speaker 1: As we learned, special emphasis as now being placed on
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Speaker 1: missus Guthrie's bedroom and her garage. But why I mean,
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Speaker 1: see Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank
0:23
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Straight out to Crime Stories
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave mac Dave, what's the latest, Nancy.
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Speaker 2: One of the things that we've been wanting was Savannah
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Speaker 2: Guthrie back on the Today Show. I say we wanting
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Speaker 2: the American people want to see some normalcy because, bless
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Speaker 2: her heart, after two months, it's been a long long
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Speaker 2: time coming. But Savannah made her appearance back as pre
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Speaker 2: announced on the Today Show.
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Speaker 3: Take a listen, Welcome to Today on this Monday morning.
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Speaker 3: We are so glad you started your week with us,
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Speaker 3: and it is good to be home.
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Speaker 1: Yes, it is good to have you back at home.
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Speaker 3: Well, here we go, ready or not, Let's do the
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Speaker 3: new Yes.
1:00
Speaker 1: So good to have you back.
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Speaker 2: Savannah also did another announcement. This one was for her
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Speaker 2: church website, and in this video is very very personal,
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Speaker 2: very very personal at times, talking about her faith and
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Speaker 2: about the Easter season and what it means to her
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Speaker 2: and how it applies to what her family has been
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Speaker 2: going through since the disappearance of her mother. It is
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Speaker 2: a very touching video.
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Speaker 4: I have long.
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Speaker 3: Believed that we miss out on fully celebrating resurrection if
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Speaker 3: we do not acknowledge the feelings of loss, pain, and yes, death.
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Speaker 3: It is the darkness that makes this morning's light so magnificent,
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Speaker 3: so blindingly beautiful. It is all the brighter because it
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Speaker 3: is so desperately needed. So I close my eyes this morning,
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Speaker 3: and I feel the sunshine. I see a bright vision
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Speaker 3: of the day when Heaven and Earth pass away, because
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Speaker 3: they are one on earth as it is in heaven.
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Speaker 3: When we celebrate today, this is what we celebrate, and
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Speaker 3: I celebrate too. I still believe, and so I say
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Speaker 3: with conviction, Happy Easter.
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Speaker 2: That's Savannah Guthrie in a video posted for Easter Sunday
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Speaker 2: through her church website.
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Speaker 1: Dave mac renewed interest in Missus Guthrie's bedroom and garage.
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Speaker 2: Why we figured out that Nancy Gothrough regularly went through
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Speaker 2: her garage getting into her house, But only thing that's
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Speaker 2: been taken out to be examined has been her vehicle,
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Speaker 2: which investigators had for a couple of weeks, but there
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Speaker 2: were six days, Nancy, from the time she went missing
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Speaker 2: until the time investigators even took her car out of
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Speaker 2: the garage, So there's plenty of opportunities to find something
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Speaker 2: in there. Was that a staging area by the potential kidnappers.
3:02
Speaker 2: We also have the bedroom you've mentioned before. The home
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Speaker 2: was in immaculate condition, yet there were certain things missed
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Speaker 2: that were showing law enforcement that something bad had taken place.
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Speaker 2: So now they're back trying to figure out the exact
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Speaker 2: layout of that bedroom, where were things placed, and what
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Speaker 2: could post anything.
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Speaker 1: So we're any objects placed in a different location than
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Speaker 1: they normally would have been, you know. To Chris McDonough
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Speaker 1: joining US tonight, director at the Cold Case Foundation. Former
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Speaker 1: homicide detective, he had an extensive, extensive experience in searching
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Speaker 1: for suspects in Mexico, over three hundred homicides under his belt,
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Speaker 1: and he is the star of the interview room on YouTube.
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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonne, you have a special interest in Missguthrie's bedroom.
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Speaker 5: Explain So, Nancy, if we look at the bedroom where
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Speaker 5: she's you know, making the bed for an example, what
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Speaker 5: I think the public is looking at is her making
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Speaker 5: the bed. What I'm looking at is the control what
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Speaker 5: we would call a control zone between the bed and
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Speaker 5: the wall, because if the suspect comes in there and
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Speaker 5: this is her pattern of life to sleep on the
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Speaker 5: left side of that bed. Notice there's an alarm clock there.
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Speaker 5: Notice her books are there, Notice her chair is there.
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Speaker 5: All these items tell us that that's the side that
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Speaker 5: she would be. So now picture this suspect on the
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Speaker 5: left side of that bed. That also gives us an
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Speaker 5: indication of potentially a point of entry into the house. Now,
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Speaker 5: and that goes into this idea of the tarps. Where
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Speaker 5: did this tarp idea come from? And how is the
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Speaker 5: suspect going to control her and quote, you know, put
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Speaker 5: her in a tarp? I think that's out of play here,
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Speaker 5: And it goes back to the blood evidence on the
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Speaker 5: front porch where he's taking her through the front door.
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Speaker 1: Why do you think the theory about a tarp? And
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Speaker 1: I agree with thank you for other reasons. By the way,
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Speaker 1: why do you think that's misplaced?
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Speaker 5: Well everybody has said, you know, it looks like a
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Speaker 5: tarp in his backpack. Okay, Well, if you're going to
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Speaker 5: control her in that house, the place you're going to do.
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Speaker 5: It is in that bedroom and if you look at
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Speaker 5: the now we look where she's standing on the side
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Speaker 5: of that bed, showing us how she makes your bedroom.
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Speaker 5: You know, how she makes your bed in the morning.
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Speaker 5: That is a pattern of life. So are the books.
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Speaker 5: She's a big reader. So is the alarm clock. So
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Speaker 5: you know, the chair being there is critical because that's
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Speaker 5: where she probably sits in the morning. You know, to
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Speaker 5: you know, at that age, you want to be moving
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Speaker 5: your legs, you want to be you know, moving your
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Speaker 5: body and just kind of waking up, and so the
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Speaker 5: elderly need these types of items nearby. What we don't
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Speaker 5: see is the Apple Watch device, you know, the charger
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Speaker 5: device that allegedly disconnects it to twenty eight in the morning.
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Speaker 1: Let's take another look at the video of her in
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Speaker 1: the bedroom. I want to take a care careful look
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Speaker 1: beside her bed. You're right, that's where she would charge
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Speaker 1: her phone most likely, and her her hearing device right
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Speaker 1: by the bed. But it looks like she's got it
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Speaker 1: put away for the cameras. Now, why is her routine
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Speaker 1: so significant to you? Chris mcdonna. I'm not disagreeing with you,
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Speaker 1: but I don't understand the probate value of which side
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Speaker 1: of the bed she rolls out on.
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Speaker 5: Well, this because the suspect would have to you know,
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Speaker 5: confront her on this side of the bed. So when
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Speaker 5: Savannah describes the you know, the horror of what Mom
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Speaker 5: has potentially seen here, well, the suspect knows for a
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Speaker 5: fact he's got her between the bed and the wall.
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Speaker 5: So she's trapped. So if you think about that, you know,
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Speaker 5: horror from an eighty five year old woman looking at
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Speaker 5: this guy dressed up like this in her bedroom. You know,
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Speaker 5: the first thing she's going to do, or he's going
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Speaker 5: to do, is is, you know, push that terror a
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Speaker 5: little bit more. Maybe she turns on the light that's
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Speaker 5: right there. And all of this is a control mechanism
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Speaker 5: for the suspect, So it puts us in the mind
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Speaker 5: potentially of the perpetrator.
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Speaker 1: From our friends at Today on YouTube on one of
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Speaker 1: Savannah's visits, and to you, Joe Scott Morgan joining US
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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath
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Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. He is the star of a
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Speaker 1: hit podcast series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott,
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Speaker 1: the fact that that was his point of control to
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Speaker 1: me is not probative. I can't use it to prove
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Speaker 1: anything except that's where I would find the DNA or
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Speaker 1: the static prince right there. Chris McDonough is right, that's
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Speaker 1: the place to look. If Nano's people had thought to
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Speaker 1: do it, maybe they did. Doubtful, but maybe they did.
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Speaker 1: What do you think.
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Speaker 6: That area where she is, and you're right, that can
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Speaker 6: potentially be a point of control because as you're going
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Speaker 6: to remove her from that spot, well what happens with that?
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Speaker 6: You know, when we go through our daily life, we
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Speaker 6: don't think about where we put our hands. We don't
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Speaker 6: think about where we step. The same thing applies, say,
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Speaker 6: for instance, to a perpetrator at a crime scene. You
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Speaker 6: just go through these motions. You don't think about, well,
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Speaker 6: what happens if I leave something here and the cops
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Speaker 6: find it later? All right, because you're focused on trying
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Speaker 6: to get control over a subject, for instance, in a kidnapping.
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Speaker 6: So yeah, that whole area in there has potential for contamination.
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Speaker 6: They're not thinking where they're stepping, they're not thinking where
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Speaker 6: they're touching. And it's not just say, for instance, fingerprints
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Speaker 6: are leaving behind. It can be touch DNA and touch DNA.
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Speaker 6: Also we can have deposition of say sloughing skin cells
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Speaker 6: that fall off of the wrists, say the areas that
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Speaker 6: aren't gloved, maybe they've left a hair behind. Nancy, do
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Speaker 6: you realize that in an area like that, if you
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Speaker 6: don't secure it, you don't treat it like you're going
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Speaker 6: into a surgical suite as a crime scene investigator, that
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Speaker 6: stuff can be lost very very care very very easily
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Speaker 6: because it's so incredibly fragile. That's what it brings us
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Speaker 6: back to, this point of seeing security being able to
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Speaker 6: freeze things in that moment in Tom as best we
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Speaker 6: possibly can, so not only can we document it photographic,
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Speaker 6: but we can collect it. At this point, Tom, there's
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Speaker 6: nothing to.
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Speaker 1: Collect, Dave Matt. You also mentioned that renewed interest is
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Speaker 1: in not only her bedroom, and now with Chris McDonough
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Speaker 1: and Joe Scott Morgan explaining it, we see why, but
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Speaker 1: renewed interest in her garage. Do you know why?
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Speaker 2: The interest is that the investigation had her vehicle for
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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks, but we don't know what they
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Speaker 2: were able to collect inside the garage. That door remains
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Speaker 2: shut every time it's been opened where the cameras were
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Speaker 2: trained on it. The vehicle was pulled in and the
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Speaker 2: door was shut. So investigators going back into the garage
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Speaker 2: looking for prints and anything else they can possibly find.
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Speaker 1: You know, that raises another question, Joe Scott. Let's take
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Speaker 1: a look as best as we can from the video
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Speaker 1: of her home that shows her garage. We believe there
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Speaker 1: was a clicker that opened the garage. We know that
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Speaker 1: Annie Guthrie's husband brought her home that evening, but very
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Speaker 1: often there is a control panel as well this video
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Speaker 1: from our friends at twelve News, and those control panels
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Speaker 1: aren't just about the easiest thing in the world to hack,
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Speaker 1: which leads us to the possibility that the garage was
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Speaker 1: the entry point. Is that where they're headed. We know
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Speaker 1: the back door was propped open, maybe with flower pots.
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Speaker 1: We know the front door was used as a exit
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Speaker 1: for missus Guthrie, But what about the garage door? How
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Speaker 1: do you hack it? And what evidence could be obtained
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Speaker 1: from that garage panel? Is that what they're up to,
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, very.
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Speaker 6: Will be and listen. The garage is an interesting spot
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Speaker 6: because if you're trying to say sequester yourself from the
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Speaker 6: view of the rest of the world, you know, And
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Speaker 6: I'm thinking here the word the watchword here is containment.
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Speaker 6: If you're trying to get control over somebody, but yet
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Speaker 6: you're still trying to exit a structure. What a perfect
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Speaker 6: area to do this because you've got cover right now.
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Speaker 6: We don't know about other cameras and other data that
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Speaker 6: might be collected in that area, but it is a
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Speaker 6: perfect area. And if you have somebody that is sophisticated
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Speaker 6: enough at least when it comes to electronics and this
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Speaker 6: sort of thing, Yeah, I suppose that it could have
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Speaker 6: been hacked. Most of the time, those control panels are
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Speaker 6: withinside of the house. So how does this work? Is
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Speaker 6: it on Bluetooth for instance, because we know that there's
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Speaker 6: a signaling device because all of us that do have
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Speaker 6: garage or openers, that's something you know. We can just
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Speaker 6: be rolling down the road, right this is old technology
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Speaker 6: and you press the button and you're still several feet away,
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Speaker 6: maybe even yards away from your house, and your door
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Speaker 6: begins to lift at that point in time. Is there
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Speaker 6: some way that could have gotten into that. I think
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Speaker 6: that question has to be asked and it has to
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Speaker 6: be answered. Is there any way to trace that and
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Speaker 6: try to try to understand if anybody could have access
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Speaker 6: that area through some type of potential hack.
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Speaker 1: Can garage door openers be hacked? Absolutely, they can be hacked.
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Speaker 1: They use low frequency radio waves. You heard Joe Scott
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Speaker 1: state that very often you have a panel on the inside,
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Speaker 1: but of course you have a panel on the outside
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Speaker 1: that is visible, so you yourself can get in if
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Speaker 1: you don't have your flicker. They're usually on a three
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Speaker 1: to four hundred MHz range. It communicates between your remote
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Speaker 1: and the motor unit. Now, it's kind of like car
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Speaker 1: radios send songs through the air, or how spoken word
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Speaker 1: travels a sound. Same thing with garage door radio waves.
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Speaker 1: They carry coded signals and they tail your door to
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Speaker 1: open or close. How easy is it to hack into
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Speaker 1: a garage? You can even do it with a toy watch.
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Speaker 7: We are really looking at a way that you could
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Speaker 7: possibly brute force your way into any fixed code garage
13:27
Speaker 7: or GIT using a device like the Imme.
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Speaker 8: It's a toy from Hotel. I don't think they make
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Speaker 8: it anymore, but some packers out there found that it
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Speaker 8: actually has a pretty cool chip inside called the CC
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Speaker 8: eleven ten. It's a micro controller with the transceiver, and
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Speaker 8: the transceiver is really cool because it actually transmits and
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Speaker 8: receives on a really wide range of frequencies down to
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Speaker 8: around two inner megahertz up to like nine to fifty megaherts,
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Speaker 8: so you can talk to a lot of things including garages, cars,
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Speaker 8: power meters, alarm systems, all sorts of things are in
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Speaker 8: those bands.
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Speaker 7: And there's actually some contact underneath a battery in the
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Speaker 7: back which allows you to flash the board, erase it,
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Speaker 7: and install your own software on this device, so you
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Speaker 7: can program in the de Brune sequence and then use
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Speaker 7: this device to play those bits at the frequency you
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Speaker 7: want to play and basically open any garage door or
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Speaker 7: gate you.
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Speaker 1: Like that from Veritassium on YouTube. So just Scott Morgan
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Speaker 1: haiking in is really easy.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's absolutely terrifying how easy it is. We're not
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Speaker 6: talking about something nancy here, like a cellular device or
14:38
Speaker 6: some type of iPad or something like that. We're talking
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Speaker 6: about access and control to your own residence. And when
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Speaker 6: you see it demonstrated how easy it is to facilitate this,
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Speaker 6: it brings into question how sophisticated do the individuals have
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Speaker 6: to have to be that do this, And if you've
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Speaker 6: got a crew of people that specialize, say, for instance,
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Speaker 6: in things like or intimidation or this sort of thing.
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Speaker 6: You know, I got to tell you that garage door
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Speaker 6: seems like it's really easy to defeat. That really broadens
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Speaker 6: your spectrum here relative to what type of person that
15:12
Speaker 6: you're looking at that could have perpetrated this crime Nancy.
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Speaker 1: But to Dave Matt, Crime Story's investigative reporter, if the
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Speaker 1: garage door was hacked, wouldn't there be a log wouldn't
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Speaker 1: there be evidence that the door that the door opened
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Speaker 1: and closed. I don't know if it would be the
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Speaker 1: same if it was hacked.
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Speaker 2: That's a question I have because you know, we know
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Speaker 2: what time Nancy Guthrie was home. What because the door,
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Speaker 2: the garage door opened and closed and that was documented.
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Speaker 2: So if the garage door remote was hacked and the
15:45
Speaker 2: door was opened, would that hack cause the uh for
15:50
Speaker 2: the door to not document when it's opened and closed.
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Speaker 2: If it goes around it, then yeah, we got a problem.
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Speaker 2: But if not, if it documents every time the door
15:58
Speaker 2: is opened and closed, then we would be able to
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Speaker 2: find that out.
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Speaker 1: Joscott Morgan, we were talking about renewed interest in not
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Speaker 1: only missus Guthrie's bedroom, but her garage as well, which
16:12
Speaker 1: leads me to the possibility of other blood evidence, whether
16:15
Speaker 1: they collected it or not. Question to you. Many people
16:19
Speaker 1: have asked me if blood would reveal whether it is
16:24
Speaker 1: from the nose like a nose bleed, or the mouth
16:28
Speaker 1: if anti coagulant was used. Let's take another shot of
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Speaker 1: missus Guthrie. There's one of her in a lawn chair,
16:34
Speaker 1: and there's one of her with Savannah. Let's see the
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Speaker 1: one with Savannah where you can see her hand and arm.
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Speaker 1: I believe it's her left hand and arm. You see
16:44
Speaker 1: that she has bleeding under the skin, which is really
16:48
Speaker 1: common when you're using an anti coagulant like Eloquist or
16:52
Speaker 1: some similar anti coagulant. A. Can you tell if an
16:56
Speaker 1: anti coagulant is in the blood with the blood pattern
16:58
Speaker 1: look different? And also can you tell by looking at
17:03
Speaker 1: the blood if it's nose blood or mouth blood.
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Speaker 6: Okay, let's take the image first and talk about that.
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Speaker 6: You're absolutely right, because when we are on blood thinners,
17:13
Speaker 6: there's been a study that has been done from a
17:15
Speaker 6: forensic perspective relative to wharphin or otherwise known as cumitin. Yeah,
17:22
Speaker 6: that you will see this presentation in particularly the elderly,
17:27
Speaker 6: because that's generally the population that applies to other people
17:30
Speaker 6: can be on blood thinners, don't get me wrong, but however,
17:33
Speaker 6: let's focus on the elderly. So yeah, and plus the
17:36
Speaker 6: skin itself is almost parchment like the older you get
17:40
Speaker 6: less collagen. Skin breaks really easy. Now that brings us
17:44
Speaker 6: to this idea. Can you tell the difference between deposition
17:47
Speaker 6: that say, comes from a limb like this, like from
17:50
Speaker 6: the hand, the wrist of the upper arm, and compared
17:55
Speaker 6: to say, the nose the mouth, which we refer to
17:58
Speaker 6: as the naso farnix area. Well, yeah, you actually can,
18:01
Speaker 6: and that's demonstrated in the blood that you see on
18:04
Speaker 6: the stoop. In my opinion, based upon these images that
18:08
Speaker 6: we have, because it appears, it appears that this blood,
18:13
Speaker 6: these droplets have what's referred to as indications of aerration,
18:19
Speaker 6: which means that it's passed through the naso faar next perhaps
18:22
Speaker 6: through the nose, through the mouth. Michael Biden even stated
18:25
Speaker 6: this on Fox relative to this, and I concur with
18:29
Speaker 6: his assessment as well.
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Speaker 1: Nancy also tonight an Amazon package being studied, not just
18:35
Speaker 1: the package, but when and how it got there, Dave Mac.
18:39
Speaker 1: Take a look at this video of the porch guy.
18:41
Speaker 1: There you see him, and that is jan thirty one
18:45
Speaker 1: into the early morning hours of February. No package. Then
18:51
Speaker 1: by the next day there is a package. Take a
18:55
Speaker 1: look at it, Dave Mac.
18:57
Speaker 2: It's shocking that it's crystal clear right there before no package.
19:01
Speaker 2: Now we clearly see a package. Was this used as bait? Like,
19:07
Speaker 2: for instance, you're walking in the middle of the night,
19:09
Speaker 2: you're trying. That's all I can figure out, Nancy, is
19:12
Speaker 2: that you're using this package as some form of disguise
19:15
Speaker 2: of yourself. If somebody were to see you out in
19:18
Speaker 2: the neighborhood, why are you here? I got a package
19:21
Speaker 2: to deliver. It's the only reason you would see it there.
19:23
Speaker 2: But if it's really an Amazon package, then we can
19:27
Speaker 2: document when it was delivered, who delivered it, and when
19:30
Speaker 2: what time they were there well.
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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Dave Mac in p Maccounty,
19:37
Speaker 1: an earlier attempted home invasion was facilitated by a female
19:43
Speaker 1: pretending These guys in conjunction by a female pretending to
19:48
Speaker 1: deliver a package. Let's switch to the woman acting like
19:54
Speaker 1: there she goes see her. That's exactly what you're talking about.
20:01
Speaker 1: But I see a problem, Dave mac Let's go back
20:04
Speaker 1: to the before and after. I don't. I mean, he
20:08
Speaker 1: may have the package in hand when he's skulking around,
20:13
Speaker 1: or have it somewhere to reach for and pretend he's
20:15
Speaker 1: a delivery person. But here you see porch guy, it's
20:20
Speaker 1: not there when he's there, and then it's delivered. Here's
20:23
Speaker 1: where I'm going to Chris McDonough joining US, director of
20:27
Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective and star of The
20:31
Speaker 1: Interview Room on YouTube We Hear at Crime Stories. Have
20:34
Speaker 1: now conducted our own investigation. Even the older models of
20:38
Speaker 1: Amazon delivery trucks have cameras, they're not three sixty, but
20:44
Speaker 1: they're really good. The newer delivery trucks do have three sixty.
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Speaker 1: So what if anything was captured in the days leading
20:54
Speaker 1: up to Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping, it's a treasure trope of information.
21:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, because you're going to be able to see,
21:06
Speaker 5: you know, this truck pull up to that residence, and
21:09
Speaker 5: you're going to see anything that's out of place prior
21:12
Speaker 5: to the to the abduction, and like Dave shed on
21:16
Speaker 5: the porch with that package there you're going to know
21:20
Speaker 5: date time, right up to the minute where they took
21:23
Speaker 5: that picture. You're going to have the metadata on that
21:26
Speaker 5: phone when that picture was taken. And my gut tells me, Nancy,
21:32
Speaker 5: that he saw that blood and went oh whoa, and
21:36
Speaker 5: he placed it off to the side there, took a picture,
21:39
Speaker 5: and he went about, you know, doing his thing, not thinking,
21:42
Speaker 5: you know, obviously that there was a potential problem here.
21:46
Speaker 1: Some people have even opined that the Amazon package is
21:50
Speaker 1: what was in his backpack. Now, I don't know how
21:53
Speaker 1: they're divining that they must have X ray vision. I mean,
21:56
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, I've heard everything from he had a
21:59
Speaker 1: tarp in his back he had an iPad in his backpack.
22:02
Speaker 1: Now he's got the Amazon delivery package in his backpack.
22:06
Speaker 1: Where are these theories coming from? How do they know this?
22:09
Speaker 1: I mean, I see nothing. That is just a mock
22:12
Speaker 1: up backpack. Let's see the actual backpack on the guy's back,
22:17
Speaker 1: because when I'm looking at this, I can't tell in
22:21
Speaker 1: any way what's in the backpack.
22:25
Speaker 6: Now, I don't think that anybody could discern this. I
22:28
Speaker 6: think that people are itching for information and they've got
22:32
Speaker 6: a lot of spare time. On their hands. I'm looking
22:34
Speaker 6: at this, Nancy, I don't see anything protruding hanging out.
22:37
Speaker 6: I don't see any discernible shapes and listen. Unless you
22:40
Speaker 6: work for the CIA, maybe and you have some kind
22:42
Speaker 6: of access to high end tech where you can discern
22:46
Speaker 6: images that might be within this thing and be able
22:49
Speaker 6: to make out outlines and all that sort of thing.
22:52
Speaker 6: I don't see how you can arrive at any solid
22:54
Speaker 6: conclusions right now. All we know is that the individual did,
22:58
Speaker 6: in fact have a backpack appears to be an Ozark backpack,
23:02
Speaker 6: and that there is something contained within it. I don't know.
23:05
Speaker 6: For all I know it could be his laundry. But
23:08
Speaker 6: you have to ask the question, though it has to
23:11
Speaker 6: be asked from an investigative perspective. Why does this guy
23:15
Speaker 6: show up armed and carrying a backpack? What could have
23:19
Speaker 6: been contained therein Because if you're going into an environment
23:23
Speaker 6: which and he's listened, just a weapon alone, he's prepared
23:28
Speaker 6: for violence. Nancy. What is it that he would need
23:32
Speaker 6: to have with him in the event that he has
23:35
Speaker 6: some kind of violent event or some type of encounter.
23:39
Speaker 6: Is this some kind of restraint mechanism he has in there? Maybe?
23:43
Speaker 6: I have no idea. Is it something that he could
23:45
Speaker 6: have used for cleaning perhaps, or is it something that
23:48
Speaker 6: he could have brought along, say, for instance, to contain valuables,
23:52
Speaker 6: you know, putting stuff into a back within a back
23:56
Speaker 6: and walking out so that he doesn't draw any further attention.
24:01
Speaker 6: You know.
24:02
Speaker 1: I just still say, there's got to be video of
24:05
Speaker 1: them leaving, Joe Scott. I mean, if you've got the
24:07
Speaker 1: video of them coming in, I'm hoping and praying that
24:12
Speaker 1: that's being resurrected as we speak. If you know or
24:17
Speaker 1: think you know anything about Nancy Guthrie's whereabouts, please dial
24:22
Speaker 1: toll free eight hundred two two five five three two four,
24:27
Speaker 1: or if you wish to remain anonymous five two zero
24:31
Speaker 1: eight eight two seven four six three. There is a
24:35
Speaker 1: one point two plus million dollar reward for information leading
24:41
Speaker 1: to the whereabouts of missus Guthrie. No arrest has required
24:46
Speaker 1: much less a conviction one point two plus million dollar reward.
24:54
Speaker 1: And remember people can be charged. You can be charged
25:00
Speaker 1: for aiding and abetting after the crime. A jury is
25:06
Speaker 1: allowed to consider movements and activities before, during, and after
25:13
Speaker 1: the crime. And stark reminder, Arizona does use the death
25:19
Speaker 1: penalty right now it's the needle Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
25:34
Speaker 1: Two evil ransom type notes are sent demanding bitcoin in
25:41
Speaker 1: exchange for information about Missus Guthrie's whereabouts. This as we
25:45
Speaker 1: learn that there was a live feed of the outdoors
25:50
Speaker 1: in Missus Guthrie's kitchen and on a laptop. Is that real?
25:56
Speaker 1: As investigators include the FBI trying to determine if the
26:00
Speaker 1: so called porch guy was wearing shoe coverings, Good evening,
26:07
Speaker 1: I means he Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want
26:09
Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. Nanos who said, yeah,
26:23
Speaker 1: there's no videos, she didn't have a subscription. But yet
26:26
Speaker 1: there is.
26:27
Speaker 9: This idea that there could be no subscription, the actual
26:31
Speaker 9: camera could have been disabled, and Google is still able
26:34
Speaker 9: to generate these really extraordinary chilling images.
26:38
Speaker 1: It ultimately could be what cracks this case. And the
26:41
Speaker 1: latest missive sent again to our friend Harvey Levin at TMZ.
26:47
Speaker 1: The perp. One of them insists, while they're not the kidnapper,
26:50
Speaker 1: according to them, that they know where Missus Guthrie is
26:55
Speaker 1: and they seem very angry that they have been dismissed.
27:00
Speaker 1: Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Listen to Harvey
27:04
Speaker 1: Levin at TMZ describing the note.
27:08
Speaker 10: We got another letter today from this person, an email
27:13
Speaker 10: saying I know where her body is and who the
27:17
Speaker 10: kidnapper is. Give us, give me half a bitcoin and
27:20
Speaker 10: I'll tell you. And this person has been really persistent,
27:24
Speaker 10: knowing that if it's a scam, it's a federal crime.
27:30
Speaker 1: That from our friends at TMZ. That's Harvey Levin on
27:33
Speaker 1: TMZ Live. Dave Matt What the hey. Now, let's be clear,
27:39
Speaker 1: Savannah and I believe that she conferred with the FBI
27:43
Speaker 1: before she stated this, says that she believes two of
27:47
Speaker 1: the ransom notes are real. Let's divide it up. You've
27:51
Speaker 1: got the deadline notes, the original ransom notes to which
27:56
Speaker 1: she is referring, where the person says I have Missus Guthrie,
27:59
Speaker 1: they give information details about the interior of her home,
28:03
Speaker 1: and they state they want bitcoin. We'll call that the deadline. Okay.
28:08
Speaker 1: Then we'll call the other notes that Harvey Levin has
28:12
Speaker 1: just gotten. We'll call that the hyena, because he is
28:17
Speaker 1: trying to capitalize on a horrific crime by claiming he
28:22
Speaker 1: can give information about Missus Guthries whereabouts. So we've got
28:26
Speaker 1: the deadline notes, the ransom notes and then the hyena.
28:30
Speaker 1: Now this is why at the get go many of
28:33
Speaker 1: us here on the panel tonight believed that two of
28:37
Speaker 1: the ransom notes could be real, and we learned from
28:39
Speaker 1: Savannah that she thinks the saying listen.
28:42
Speaker 3: The two notes that we received that we responded to.
28:48
Speaker 1: I tend to believe those are real from our friends
28:51
Speaker 1: at today on YouTube. And I guarantee you, knowing Savannah
28:55
Speaker 1: from our days at Court TV, she would not go
28:58
Speaker 1: rogue and say something that agree with the FBI analysis,
29:01
Speaker 1: So I agree with her. So we've got those, and
29:04
Speaker 1: then we've got the hyena. Tell me about the notes
29:09
Speaker 1: Harvey received, Dave mac.
29:12
Speaker 2: These are from the rat that wants a bitcoin to
29:15
Speaker 2: rat out the guys, the people who have kidnapped allegedly
29:20
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie. Now in there were two notes sent Nancy.
29:24
Speaker 2: In one of the notes, this individual says that he
29:29
Speaker 2: had mentioned in an earlier and some note Nancy that
29:31
Speaker 2: he had seen Nancy Guthrie in the presence of the kidnappers.
29:34
Speaker 2: This time he goes a step further and says, I
29:38
Speaker 2: saw her with the kidnappers in Sonora, Mexico.
29:42
Speaker 1: Well, you're right, Dave, Matt take a listen to Harvey Levin.
29:46
Speaker 11: But they also made the point that they wanted to
29:47
Speaker 11: make it clear that they have nothing to do with it. Right,
29:50
Speaker 11: they've been out of the country, but who knows. We
29:53
Speaker 11: forward and we forwarded to the FBI, right as we
29:56
Speaker 11: have in the passing.
29:57
Speaker 1: Dave mac I like your characterization that we had used earlier.
30:00
Speaker 1: The rat he wants to rat out the real kidnapper
30:04
Speaker 1: joining us is renounced psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction,
30:08
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall. She is the author of deal Breaker
30:12
Speaker 1: and she is now starring on Bravo and Peacock and
30:16
Speaker 1: you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
30:19
Speaker 1: You know what the irony, doctor Bethany, there's so much
30:24
Speaker 1: but Savannah has to wake up every morning dealing with
30:27
Speaker 1: a the kidnapper and now be the hyena slash rat
30:32
Speaker 1: that is trying to make money off Missus Guthrie or
30:36
Speaker 1: her body. And he's very careful to state now I
30:42
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. I just want to
30:44
Speaker 1: make money off of it. I mean the gall.
30:48
Speaker 12: But you know, Nancy, if he wants to make money
30:51
Speaker 12: off of this, it suggests that maybe he knows the
30:54
Speaker 12: kidnappers because he himself is a part of a criminal enterprise.
30:58
Speaker 12: So I would think think that if he makes his
31:01
Speaker 12: identity known and he's been sort of thick as thieves
31:05
Speaker 12: with whoever took Savannah Guthrie, that that would be more
31:09
Speaker 12: daunting to him or threatening to him than facing other
31:15
Speaker 12: kinds of charges for obstructing justice. It's kind of hard
31:19
Speaker 12: to say, but I just think he's sort of one
31:21
Speaker 12: of them that is broken away from the pack and
31:24
Speaker 12: now he wants to kind of profit off the knowledge
31:27
Speaker 12: that he has.
31:29
Speaker 1: Well, let's introgeeves our special guest tonight, David Richards, joining
31:33
Speaker 1: us from this jurisdiction of Arizona. He is the founder
31:37
Speaker 1: and CEO of Blockchain Unmasked. It's an intelligence firm specializing
31:44
Speaker 1: in investigating cryptocurrency related financial crimes, fraud, you name it.
31:49
Speaker 1: He's dealt with so many criminal cases and you can
31:53
Speaker 1: find him at blockchain unmasked dot com. In your experience
31:57
Speaker 1: dealing with all sorts of criminals, I think Bethany's right.
32:01
Speaker 1: Who do you think this guy's hanging around with nuns
32:03
Speaker 1: and priests and virgins? HGLN, He's hanging around with people
32:08
Speaker 1: like the person that kidnapped Nancy Guthrie.
32:13
Speaker 4: That's certainly possible. Obviously, someone that's going to want to
32:16
Speaker 4: throw their hat in the ring on an investigation like
32:19
Speaker 4: this may not be a savory individual. And I'm sure
32:22
Speaker 4: law enforcement's taking that into account.
32:25
Speaker 1: You know, Dave Richards. Of course you're going to have
32:27
Speaker 1: to take everything this guy says. And I haven't seen him,
32:31
Speaker 1: but I can guarantee you it's a man, Okay, Statistically,
32:36
Speaker 1: this is a guy that takes part in a violent
32:40
Speaker 1: crime such as kidnapping Missus Guthrie and her bleeding all
32:43
Speaker 1: over the front porch. It's a man that said we'll
32:47
Speaker 1: have to take what he says with a box of salt,
32:49
Speaker 1: not a grain, but a box of salt. But I
32:53
Speaker 1: don't hear anything specific like proof of life. I don't
32:58
Speaker 1: see any specific details other than I know where they are.
33:01
Speaker 1: They're in Sonora. How is that? How can I believe that?
33:06
Speaker 4: Well? You can, And that's the main problem. Obviously. If
33:09
Speaker 4: someone did have intimate knowledge of an instance like this,
33:13
Speaker 4: they would likely bread crumb that information if it were
33:16
Speaker 4: useful for them to achieve their own means, which in
33:20
Speaker 4: this case might be a ransom note or ransom money.
33:23
Speaker 1: What do you mean by bread crumb? David Richards.
33:27
Speaker 4: Sure, if someone did have some intimate knowledge of an
33:30
Speaker 4: incident in this case, it would make more sense that
33:34
Speaker 4: they would share a little bit to then give legitimacy
33:38
Speaker 4: to their ransom note. As of right now, it could
33:41
Speaker 4: be a troll, it could be a fake, it could
33:43
Speaker 4: be someone involved, and I think law enforcement is looking
33:47
Speaker 4: at all of those options.
33:49
Speaker 1: When you say bread crumb, go out on a limb
33:52
Speaker 1: with me, David Richards joining us from blockchain, unmasked dot
33:56
Speaker 1: com a bread crumb such as what to make me
34:00
Speaker 1: believe him?
34:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, it could be any little bit of evidence that
34:04
Speaker 4: only someone involved would know. It could be a date
34:08
Speaker 4: or time, a time stamp of something. It's something that
34:11
Speaker 4: only someone intimately involved would know.
34:13
Speaker 1: I would go with something like Missus Guthrie is wearing
34:18
Speaker 1: a wedding band on her left hand and a ruby
34:24
Speaker 1: solitaire on her right hand. Or Missus Guthrie asked for
34:31
Speaker 1: Irish brectfast tea with skim milk heated up. Or Missus
34:35
Speaker 1: Guthrie is wearing her pajamas and they are red striped
34:38
Speaker 1: with candy canes. Christmas pajamas. I mean something that only
34:44
Speaker 1: the kidnapper or someone who sees Missus Guthrie would know.
34:49
Speaker 1: That would be a bread crumb to me. Agreed, Disagree,
34:52
Speaker 1: David Richards agree.
34:53
Speaker 4: If they want to provide legitimacy to what they're claiming.
34:56
Speaker 1: Absolutely agree with us Brian Fitzgibbons. You know him well.
35:00
Speaker 1: He's Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security who leads a team
35:05
Speaker 1: of investigators around the world finding missing people, including extractions,
35:10
Speaker 1: including from Mexico. He is a former marine and Iraqi Warvett.
35:15
Speaker 1: What would you look for in cases you have handled
35:19
Speaker 1: that would be proof this guy, the rat, knows what
35:24
Speaker 1: he's talking about.
35:26
Speaker 4: Yeah, Dave was spot on there.
35:29
Speaker 13: And one of the challenges here is this rat, the
35:32
Speaker 13: author of the ransom note, is disconnected from the crime
35:36
Speaker 13: scene itself. So they've intentionally said that all of their
35:40
Speaker 13: information is coming from after Missus Guthrie was removed from
35:45
Speaker 13: the residents and purportedly moved to Sonora, the state in
35:50
Speaker 13: Mexico that borders the Tucson area. So they would have
35:54
Speaker 13: to provide some very specific details about her state, her condition,
36:01
Speaker 13: things that she said, things that she was wearing. That's
36:03
Speaker 13: what investigators would be looking for there.
36:06
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, more of our friend Harvey Levin. He is
36:11
Speaker 1: describing notes, and he says at the get go that
36:16
Speaker 1: this guy has been writing and writing and writing him.
36:20
Speaker 1: It's like that irritating student in class. I'm over here
36:24
Speaker 1: calling me, look at me, look at me. That's him.
36:29
Speaker 1: That does not instill confidence. But let's listen.
36:32
Speaker 11: You have to assume that the law enforcement they believe
36:35
Speaker 11: that this person is not legit. Otherwise they would have
36:39
Speaker 11: advised Savannah to pay the money.
36:43
Speaker 10: Can we just be really transparent. I think you're right
36:45
Speaker 10: that the law enforcement doesn't. There's something.
36:48
Speaker 11: I just can't figure out why.
36:49
Speaker 1: There's something flyer. The price of bitcoin is much lower now.
36:53
Speaker 5: These are like you can just take a flyer and
36:55
Speaker 5: see what the person knows.
36:56
Speaker 2: The most you lose is twenty grand, twenty five grand.
37:04
Speaker 1: As we go to air tonight, one bitcoin is worth
37:07
Speaker 1: sixty eight thousand, one hundred and one dollars thirty cents.
37:12
Speaker 1: Sixty eight thousand, one hundred and one dollars and thirty cents.
37:18
Speaker 1: So let me understand, Dave Matt. This guy is asking
37:22
Speaker 1: for a half of a bitcoin, which would be thirty
37:26
Speaker 1: four thousand dollars, right, David Richards joining us from Blockchain unmasked.
37:31
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like I'm at an auction, you know,
37:34
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, thirty thirty to thirty five thirty eybody forty?
37:36
Speaker 1: Anybody forty? Am I hearing forty one? I mean he's saying, okay,
37:40
Speaker 1: I'll take a half a bitcoin. Remember at the beginning,
37:43
Speaker 1: way back when he wanted I think you wanted one bitcoin.
37:45
Speaker 1: Now he's look, he's like, okay, I'll take half. But
37:48
Speaker 1: then once the rest has made, you got to give
37:50
Speaker 1: me the other half. I'm trusting you. That does not
37:53
Speaker 1: instill confidence. It's kind of a layaway plan. Do you
37:56
Speaker 1: even remember that we used to buy things on layaway
37:59
Speaker 1: when I was growing up because we couldn't afford the
38:01
Speaker 1: entire price of the Christmas weater, so it put down
38:04
Speaker 1: ten dollars and then come back when we had the
38:05
Speaker 1: other twenty five dollars. Remember layaway? That's what it sounds like.
38:11
Speaker 4: It definitely sounds like used car salesman behavior where you
38:14
Speaker 4: start at one one price and then gradually back down,
38:19
Speaker 4: which certainly questions the legitimacy.
38:21
Speaker 1: Of this brif is gibbon half a bitcoin now and
38:25
Speaker 1: then after the arrest the other half a bitcoin thirty
38:29
Speaker 1: five thirty four fifty thirty four thousand, fifty dollars and
38:37
Speaker 1: eighty cents. Essentially, it's what he wants now. It's like
38:41
Speaker 1: a bargain basement sale from missus Guthrie's whereabouts.
38:46
Speaker 13: Yeah, this is not very credible to me on its face, Nancy,
38:50
Speaker 13: for a couple of reasons. Just the pattern of communication
38:53
Speaker 13: here with no specific information, and the simple fact that
38:58
Speaker 13: they're communicating with Team m Z and not directly with
39:02
Speaker 13: the FBI at this juncture. You know, sixty plus days
39:06
Speaker 13: in uh doesn't lead to a whole lot of credibility.
39:10
Speaker 1: Agree.
39:11
Speaker 10: Listen, my spidy senses tell me that there's something about
39:15
Speaker 10: this guy because one of the one of the emails
39:18
Speaker 10: he sent said early on, time is of the essence
39:21
Speaker 10: to do this, and then the next day he said
39:24
Speaker 10: time is no longer of the essence. If he was
39:27
Speaker 10: pulling a scam, why would you say time is no
39:30
Speaker 10: longer of the essence.
39:32
Speaker 11: You know, you want to keep the value.
39:33
Speaker 4: You want to keep the valuation.
39:35
Speaker 10: And the fact that he said this made me think
39:39
Speaker 10: this guy knows him as well. I'm not looking.
39:44
Speaker 11: All the information they are. But you're from the outside
39:47
Speaker 11: looking in, it sure seems like this person knows.
39:50
Speaker 1: Something well, right there, Harvey Levin, that's re ference, Harvey
39:56
Speaker 1: Levin at TMZ. Harvey may a really good point, Harvey
40:02
Speaker 1: eleven is not just a pretty face and a tight
40:04
Speaker 1: gray T shirt. He is a trained lawyer. Okay, that's
40:11
Speaker 1: a really good point. Dr Bethany Marshall joining us, What
40:15
Speaker 1: would be the motivation if he wants the money to
40:17
Speaker 1: say time is no longer of the essence, suggesting that
40:21
Speaker 1: miss Guthrie may have passed on, why would he say
40:25
Speaker 1: that they're right?
40:27
Speaker 12: I think that what is happening is this guy is
40:30
Speaker 12: both a scammer and real potentially. And what I mean
40:34
Speaker 12: by that is he may tangentially be related to the kidnappers.
40:38
Speaker 12: In other words, you know the kidnappers bragging, and the
40:42
Speaker 12: one person breaks to another and then breaks to another,
40:45
Speaker 12: and so he gets just enough information to send in
40:48
Speaker 12: the note, and then he gets enough information to say
40:52
Speaker 12: that time is of the essence and then to say
40:54
Speaker 12: that she's dead. You don't nancy this. Whoever this guy is,
40:58
Speaker 12: he watches a lot of TV because the language in
41:02
Speaker 12: the ransom note feels like it's taken out of it
41:04
Speaker 12: like a CSI script, Like he writes, a millions have
41:08
Speaker 12: been wasted. I'm willing to deliver them on a silver platter.
41:13
Speaker 12: I am disregarded as a scam, but they are free
41:17
Speaker 12: and the case is frozen, but the egos remain hot.
41:20
Speaker 12: When it comes to me, it's like somebody who can't
41:23
Speaker 12: put his own thoughts together, so he kind of takes
41:26
Speaker 12: bits and pieces of things that he's seen on TV
41:29
Speaker 12: and he kind of weaves them together into a ransom note. Nancy,
41:33
Speaker 12: this guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
41:36
Speaker 12: I mean, he really is not. And one of the
41:39
Speaker 12: things that makes me think that this is credible is
41:41
Speaker 12: that witnesses tend to come forward when the case goes
41:44
Speaker 12: cold because they're no longer afraid of repercussions from the criminals.
41:50
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you say he's not the sharpest
41:51
Speaker 1: tool in the shed, but somehow he's managed to elude
41:55
Speaker 1: law enforcement and the FBI, as has the so called
41:59
Speaker 1: Porty crime stories with Nancy Grace. David Richards, founder CEO
42:15
Speaker 1: Blockchain Unmasked, what do you make of the fact that
42:18
Speaker 1: he comes out and says missus Guthrie is dead. I
42:23
Speaker 1: cannot imagine Savannah's reaction to that, because I know she's
42:28
Speaker 1: holding on to a very thin hope that her mom
42:31
Speaker 1: may still be alive, and she's putting on a brave
42:34
Speaker 1: face and going back to work and back to her children.
42:37
Speaker 1: To have the rat state that boldly, I mean, what
42:44
Speaker 1: do you make of it?
42:47
Speaker 4: Well, certainly tragic. My heart goes out to the family
42:50
Speaker 4: in this instance, of course, to be receiving that as
42:53
Speaker 4: a family member, I would be devastated. I would also
42:56
Speaker 4: be questioning and going to federal law forcement to determine
43:01
Speaker 4: the legitimacy of this note and make sure that every
43:04
Speaker 4: stone is overturned by private investigatitors and federal law enforcement
43:10
Speaker 4: in right.
43:12
Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons, what do you make of the so called
43:15
Speaker 1: rat slash hyena trying to make money out of purportedly
43:21
Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie's dead body? According to him, I'm not accepting
43:25
Speaker 1: that yet. What kind of a person would do that?
43:30
Speaker 1: But that said, is Harvey levin Wright that that adds
43:34
Speaker 1: legitimacy to this note because he basically lowered He's bargaining
43:40
Speaker 1: with himself, reducing his price by stating missus Guthrie has
43:44
Speaker 1: passed on.
43:46
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean, listen, you could look at it that way,
43:50
Speaker 13: right that you know, this author of this note is
43:54
Speaker 13: lowering the price, adding some legitimacy by saying, hey, I
43:58
Speaker 13: recognize that Missus gut Thrie has passed this is the
44:02
Speaker 13: information I have. I realized that this isn't a rescue
44:06
Speaker 13: operation at this point. You know, just pay me half
44:09
Speaker 13: a bitcoin and I'll give you the rest of the info.
44:11
Speaker 13: But the question that I have is, and first of all,
44:16
Speaker 13: let me back up. This is the point of offering
44:19
Speaker 13: a reward, right, The very point of offering a reward
44:23
Speaker 13: is to inspire people with lower morals looking for a
44:28
Speaker 13: monetary gain as for the information they have related to
44:32
Speaker 13: the case. So you know, if it is authentic, the
44:35
Speaker 13: reward messaging is working.
44:37
Speaker 1: Guys. This is a scene of the search Missus Guthrie's
44:41
Speaker 1: home from our friends at twelve News and Fitzgibbons, you're
44:45
Speaker 1: right again, as I always say to juries and opening
44:50
Speaker 1: statement and then reiterating again and closing statement. Look, we've
44:54
Speaker 1: got to take the witnesses as we find them. I
44:57
Speaker 1: put up dope dealers as a state's witness. I put
44:59
Speaker 1: up people that were flat out drunk on the stand
45:02
Speaker 1: because I had no choice because they knew what they knew, right,
45:07
Speaker 1: And in this case, if we have to believe a
45:09
Speaker 1: rat slash hyena to find Missus Guthrie, then we will
45:14
Speaker 1: hold our noses and we will do it. I find
45:18
Speaker 1: it very curious and interesting and possibly probative that Levin,
45:24
Speaker 1: who is on the inside of these random noes we're
45:26
Speaker 1: on the outside, believes that there may be some credibility
45:30
Speaker 1: to them. But you brought up another fact just then,
45:35
Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons, And you're right, why not just claim the reward.
45:41
Speaker 1: It's a lot bigger than half a bitcoin, half a
45:46
Speaker 1: bitcoins around thirty four thousand dollars. The reward is one
45:49
Speaker 1: point two plus million dollars, So why.
45:56
Speaker 13: Yeah, that's that's perplexing. You know this, the author of
46:00
Speaker 13: this ransom note is apparently going to be leaving, you know,
46:04
Speaker 13: one point five million dollars on the table for this
46:09
Speaker 13: information that you know, could lead to locating Missus Guthrie.
46:14
Speaker 13: And they're communicating with someone who doesn't have the authority
46:18
Speaker 13: to grant that reward, meaning TMZ. They're not communicating directly
46:23
Speaker 13: with the FBI.
46:25
Speaker 1: Here you are seeing search video from our friends at
46:28
Speaker 1: Today YouTube, the search going into the night. It has
46:31
Speaker 1: gone on for days and days and days, and now
46:34
Speaker 1: all of that evidence is being sifted through by the FBI,
46:38
Speaker 1: both on the scene. They're in Tucson, in Phoenix and
46:42
Speaker 1: at Quantico. This is where our friends at Fox News.
46:48
Speaker 1: But he goes on Dave mac in response to why
46:51
Speaker 1: not just claim the reward? He claims he doesn't want
46:55
Speaker 1: the reward. He wants money to start a new life
46:59
Speaker 1: without having to go into the witness protection program, and
47:03
Speaker 1: he kind of connects taking the one point two million
47:07
Speaker 1: dollars with witness protection program sly, very sly explain.
47:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's trying to say that you were to go
47:16
Speaker 2: the legitimate route to get the big reward, that he
47:20
Speaker 2: would be outed eventually and have to change his entire
47:23
Speaker 2: life and go into the witness protection program and he'd
47:25
Speaker 2: never be safe. But he just wants a little bit
47:28
Speaker 2: so he can start his life over again and just
47:31
Speaker 2: get out from underneath everything that he apparently is under.
47:34
Speaker 1: Okay, David Richards, that is a non sequitur. It doesn't follow,
47:40
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. He's saying, I don't want the
47:44
Speaker 1: big rants. I don't want the big reward because I
47:47
Speaker 1: want to stay off the fed's radar. I don't want
47:49
Speaker 1: to enter witness protection. I just want this bitcoin. Half
47:53
Speaker 1: a bitcoin now, half a bitcoin later, so I can
47:56
Speaker 1: start a new life all over again. I don't have
48:00
Speaker 1: to live in fear. But if the perps were arrested,
48:04
Speaker 1: he wouldn't live in fear. He wouldn't have to be
48:07
Speaker 1: in the witness protection program. That doesn't ring true, does.
48:10
Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense? Obviously, if someone has legitimate information,
48:14
Speaker 4: they would bring it to legitimate federal law enforcement and
48:17
Speaker 4: go that route. Whereas in this instance, the various changes
48:21
Speaker 4: of those notes, the even the demand of ransom in bitcoin,
48:26
Speaker 4: shows an immaturity and in my opinion, a lack of
48:30
Speaker 4: genuine knowledge on the case.
48:33
Speaker 1: And we also learn from Harvey Levin that this is
48:37
Speaker 1: by far not the first time the same guy has written.
48:41
Speaker 10: Share a little bit of news with you. The person
48:44
Speaker 10: who has been incessantly contacting us.
48:47
Speaker 11: Oh okay, stop for a while.
48:49
Speaker 1: Stop for a while.
48:50
Speaker 10: We got another letter today.
48:52
Speaker 1: That's my our friends, Harvey Levin at TMZ incessantly contacting,
48:57
Speaker 1: incessantly contacting. And not only are they incessantly contacting our
49:03
Speaker 1: friend Harvey Levin. They're at TMZ. They're all so miffed.
49:08
Speaker 1: They're irritated that they're not being taken seriously and considered
49:11
Speaker 1: to be a con a scam. Okay, Doctor Bethany Marshall,
49:15
Speaker 1: I think we could all use some psychoanalysis right now.
49:18
Speaker 12: Explain well this irritability and anger that he hasn't been respected.
49:28
Speaker 12: It reminds me of people who are obsessed with crime,
49:31
Speaker 12: but in such a way that they feel that they
49:33
Speaker 12: know the answer behind the mystery, like they know more
49:37
Speaker 12: about the crime than the people who are investigating it.
49:40
Speaker 12: So this tells me again, this is somebody who watches
49:43
Speaker 12: a lot of TV, knows a lot about different crimes.
49:45
Speaker 12: Is kind of, you know, patchworking together various words that
49:49
Speaker 12: he may have heard on TV, and there's an arrogance
49:54
Speaker 12: to it, as if he knows more than anybody else.
49:57
Speaker 12: That's what I see.
50:01
Speaker 1: So not only do we have the rat incessantly contacting
50:06
Speaker 1: his words not mine Harvey at TMZ with one note
50:10
Speaker 1: one email after the next, he even discloses or alleges
50:16
Speaker 1: that Missus Guthrie is dead, his words, not mine, she
50:22
Speaker 1: is dead. That's quite the blow, isn't it? But yet
50:28
Speaker 1: Savannah returns.
50:31
Speaker 3: We celebrate today the promise of a new life that
50:35
Speaker 3: never ends in death. But standing here today, I have
50:42
Speaker 3: to tell you there are moments in which that promise
50:46
Speaker 3: seems irretrievably far away, when life itself seems far harder
50:52
Speaker 3: than death. Recently, though, in my own season of trial,
50:58
Speaker 3: I have wondered, I have questioned whether Jesus really ever
51:03
Speaker 3: experienced this particular wound that I feel, this grievous and
51:08
Speaker 3: uniquely cruel injury of not knowing, of uncertainty and confusion
51:14
Speaker 3: and answers with health.
51:16
Speaker 1: How dare these people do that to missus Guthrie and
51:21
Speaker 1: to her family, including Savannah, cutting them to the bone
51:28
Speaker 1: and then making them question their own faith. That's from
51:32
Speaker 1: our friend Good Shepherd, New York YouTube. It's so easy
51:39
Speaker 1: to go down the vortex of Savannah's pain, her family's pain,
51:46
Speaker 1: so near the surface and so obvious tonight. How do
51:51
Speaker 1: we catch this piece of crap that has done this
51:57
Speaker 1: to the Guthrie family? To David Richards, founder CEO Blockchain Unmasked,
52:04
Speaker 1: how do we trace a the email b the bitcoin
52:10
Speaker 1: account that he has provided?
52:13
Speaker 4: Sure email can be traced through what we consider open
52:16
Speaker 4: source intelligence. You're searching the exact address across the web,
52:20
Speaker 4: public data breaches, looking for the same username on other sites,
52:25
Speaker 4: social media, other sign ups that this individual could have used.
52:29
Speaker 4: That's the email. More specifically, if you've got the info
52:34
Speaker 4: inside the actual email header, header analysis can show routing,
52:38
Speaker 4: path or server info. Although currently spoofing technology does exist
52:43
Speaker 4: and make it a little bit.
52:44
Speaker 1: Tricky, slow down, explain that place spoofing technology.
52:48
Speaker 4: Sure, given the level of technology nowadays, spoofing an email
52:54
Speaker 4: address making it appear as though it came from Nancy
52:58
Speaker 4: Grace dot com is possible. However, it is also possible
53:02
Speaker 4: to dig deeper into that head analysis, route and path
53:05
Speaker 4: and server info to determine where an email actually could
53:10
Speaker 4: have come from.
53:11
Speaker 1: Okay, that's looking trying to track the email, and I'm
53:16
Speaker 1: not sure how this guy has met and the actual
53:22
Speaker 1: ransomer has managed to stump the FBI. How are they
53:26
Speaker 1: doing it?
53:26
Speaker 4: David Richards, Well, I don't have specific details, but I
53:31
Speaker 4: can assume that there are certain email addresses email platforms
53:36
Speaker 4: that one can sign up to remain anonymous to not
53:39
Speaker 4: provide any information that you or I would use on
53:42
Speaker 4: For example, a Google no real names, no real information.
53:46
Speaker 4: It can just be what would be considered a burner account.
53:50
Speaker 1: So that is possible here, Well, how do you track
53:54
Speaker 1: burner accounts?
53:57
Speaker 4: Well, it's no different than blockchain. The more interaut the
54:02
Speaker 4: more correspondence, the more data points you have can add
54:06
Speaker 4: to the ability to track an account the platform. Providing that.
54:12
Speaker 1: You just told me something really important, Well, it was
54:14
Speaker 1: all important. I'm trying to ingest everything that you're saying.
54:19
Speaker 1: It's like drinking from the fire hydrant a lot at once.
54:23
Speaker 1: But you said, the more communications, the more likely it
54:26
Speaker 1: is they can trace him. And according to Harvey Levin,
54:29
Speaker 1: who have no reason to doubt, he's been contacting them incessantly.
54:33
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that help?
54:36
Speaker 4: It could help the problem with Harvey is that he
54:39
Speaker 4: may not have the tools or the knowledge to gather
54:42
Speaker 4: what might need to be gathered. FBI or federal law
54:45
Speaker 4: enforcement would be coming in as a second party versus
54:50
Speaker 4: controlling those communications.
54:54
Speaker 1: Well, he's been handing it all over to the FBI,
54:57
Speaker 1: So I assume they've got all the information, David.
55:01
Speaker 4: Sure, And that's a little bit different. If FBI were
55:03
Speaker 4: actually controlling the information and the exchange of information versus
55:08
Speaker 4: going through a third party, they're still outside looking in
55:11
Speaker 4: in that instance. That said, it's still completely possible that
55:16
Speaker 4: this individual is using a burner email account.
55:21
Speaker 1: Can a burner email account be traced through clever.
55:25
Speaker 4: Counter intelligence tools? Sure? Yes it can be.
55:30
Speaker 1: What counterintelligence tool?
55:33
Speaker 4: Federal law enforcement, including other investigators like ourselves do have
55:37
Speaker 4: tools metadata from online interactions, and that includes on the blockchain.
55:44
Speaker 1: Okay, that's how to find the email, But how do
55:47
Speaker 1: trace the email? How do you trace the actual bitcoin account?
55:53
Speaker 4: Sure? So, a bitcoin account, I'm sure you've heard it
55:56
Speaker 4: a lot is anonymous until the flow of reaches a
56:01
Speaker 4: centralized portal. I consider this similar to the DMV. You
56:04
Speaker 4: and I can see the license plate numbers, but only
56:07
Speaker 4: the DMV or law enforcement knows who's behind those numbers.
56:11
Speaker 4: Blockchain is no different. So we do need transactions in
56:15
Speaker 4: order to end up determining a flow of funds to
56:19
Speaker 4: a destination that does collect this type of information.
56:24
Speaker 1: Well, what if HARV eleven put in sight three hundred
56:27
Speaker 1: dollars or does the per have to move the three
56:32
Speaker 1: hundred dollars.
56:34
Speaker 4: Yes, in this instance, the money would have to move,
56:37
Speaker 4: and again it would have to reach a place where
56:40
Speaker 4: law enforcement can submit subpoena warrant in order to gather
56:44
Speaker 4: the appropriate information around that user.
56:47
Speaker 1: If it's on chain, it means if it goes to
56:51
Speaker 1: another country, if it's transferred to another country, less likely
56:55
Speaker 1: because other countries do not have reporting regulations the way
56:57
Speaker 1: the US does.
57:01
Speaker 4: Admittedly, they don't have to respond to federal law enforcement
57:04
Speaker 4: and our work on a daily basis with federal law enforcement.
57:08
Speaker 4: Non US entities can sometimes refuse, although they will also
57:13
Speaker 4: participate in many investigations.
57:15
Speaker 1: What's the chance that right now, David Richards, as we
57:18
Speaker 1: go to air tonight, there is somebody in some office
57:22
Speaker 1: either in Tucson, Phoenix or Quantico, some office with those
57:28
Speaker 1: horrible overhead lights on, trying to figure this out, trying
57:34
Speaker 1: to trace that email, trying to trace that bitcoin account.
57:38
Speaker 1: I'd say one hundred to Notahan.
57:41
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I've got all the we work with federal law
57:43
Speaker 4: enforcement all day every day, and I've got all the
57:45
Speaker 4: faith and confidence that the most intelligent people in the
57:49
Speaker 4: world and the country are on this. So the odds
57:52
Speaker 4: are well over one hundred percent.
57:54
Speaker 1: Also tonight, I want you to take a look at
57:56
Speaker 1: a monitor that has appeared in a shot of Missus
58:01
Speaker 1: Guthrie with Savannah we believe in Missus Guthrie's home. Look
58:07
Speaker 1: carefully at the laptop to Missus Guthrie's left your right.
58:13
Speaker 1: It looks like an outdoor surveillance, home surveillance. Look at that. Okay,
58:22
Speaker 1: let's take it in full again, please, if you will
58:26
Speaker 1: now look just over Missus Guthrie's left shoulder on the
58:29
Speaker 1: right of your screen. That looks like it's being projected
58:35
Speaker 1: up on like a TV monitor. What is that, Brian Fitzgibbons.
58:42
Speaker 13: Yes, so what you see there on the countertop appears
58:45
Speaker 13: to be a tablet connected to an external keyboard, and
58:50
Speaker 13: that it could be playing you know what looks very
58:54
Speaker 13: similar to infrared or night vision live feed from a
58:59
Speaker 13: secure camera. This could be connected into that Nest system.
59:04
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't get it, David Richards, How can there
59:08
Speaker 1: be no trace of this, nothing left behind? When I
59:14
Speaker 1: can see that she has home surveillance video and she's
59:18
Speaker 1: looking at it on her laptop, why can't that be resurrected.
59:26
Speaker 4: Well, I'm sure it can be. And I am also certain,
59:29
Speaker 4: given our experience with investigations, that there is information that
59:34
Speaker 4: is known and shared, and information that is known and
59:37
Speaker 4: not shared. It's very strategically released and presented by a
59:42
Speaker 4: federal law enforcement but that information is likely accessible.
59:51
Speaker 1: You know, Google pulled a miracle or a miracle dropped
59:55
Speaker 1: on their heads from above, and they were able to
59:58
Speaker 1: resurrect the video of the porch gu We're praying for
1:00:01
Speaker 1: another miracle to help crack the case this as theories
1:00:06
Speaker 1: run rampant that the porch guy was actually wearing a
1:00:10
Speaker 1: shoe covering, Let's take a look at some of the possibilities. Okay,
1:00:17
Speaker 1: that's one example of a shoe covering, a covering like
1:00:22
Speaker 1: this to Brian is Gibbons, USPA Nationwide Security, what difference
1:00:28
Speaker 1: would it make if he were wearing shoe coverings?
1:00:34
Speaker 13: Yeah, that certainly narrows the field of footwear, right. I mean,
1:00:39
Speaker 13: how many people you know and in what trades have
1:00:42
Speaker 13: these very specific shoe coverings. So that would be a
1:00:47
Speaker 13: very key piece of information. And the big question here
1:00:51
Speaker 13: is going to be can we match Can investigators match
1:00:55
Speaker 13: the pattern found in that blood? Was there a shoeprint
1:00:59
Speaker 13: in that blood? And can they match it to one
1:01:01
Speaker 13: of these coverings or to a specific pair of shoes.
1:01:04
Speaker 1: What do you make of it? David Richards, it would
1:01:06
Speaker 1: show a certain degree of premeditation that if shoe coverings
1:01:11
Speaker 1: were worn, and there's many different types, you have to
1:01:14
Speaker 1: look at the porch guy's shoes to determine is that possible.
1:01:19
Speaker 1: The reason I care if shoe coverings were worn, that
1:01:22
Speaker 1: would be an entirely new avenue of investigation to find
1:01:26
Speaker 1: out who bought those who had them in the neighborhood.
1:01:29
Speaker 1: Maybe construction workers, maybe HVAC workers, maybe people that were
1:01:33
Speaker 1: coming in and out of Missus Guthrie's home that didn't
1:01:36
Speaker 1: want to track mud into her home. It could mean
1:01:39
Speaker 1: any number of things.
1:01:41
Speaker 4: David, Absolutely, if true to your point, it does mean
1:01:45
Speaker 4: and would indicate a level of premeditation. I would certainly
1:01:49
Speaker 4: argue that an incident like this requires that. Regardless it
1:01:53
Speaker 4: was not haphazard, it was likely planned ahead of time,
1:01:57
Speaker 4: and shoe coverings, if that's what was worn, is an
1:02:00
Speaker 4: indication of that.
1:02:02
Speaker 1: Take a look on the right side of the screen
1:02:04
Speaker 1: at the shoes there. They look somewhat different than the
1:02:09
Speaker 1: ones he's wearing on Feb. One. So did he not
1:02:13
Speaker 1: wear shoe covering his January eleven and did wear them Feb? One?
1:02:17
Speaker 1: These are some of the questions that the FBI is
1:02:22
Speaker 1: investigating as we go to air tonight. If you know
1:02:26
Speaker 1: or think you know anything about missus Guthrie's whereabouts, please
1:02:31
Speaker 1: dial toll free eight hundred two two five five three
1:02:35
Speaker 1: two four. If you wish to remain anonymous five two
1:02:39
Speaker 1: zero eight eight two seven four sixty three. There is
1:02:43
Speaker 1: a one point two plus million dollar reward for information
1:02:50
Speaker 1: leading to the whereabouts of Missus Guthrie. A conviction, even
1:02:55
Speaker 1: an arrest, is not required for you to get at
1:03:00
Speaker 1: this reward one point two million dollars. Tonight we remember
1:03:07
Speaker 1: an American hero, Sergeant Michael Schlapman, Bernalo County Sheriffs, New Mexico,
1:03:13
Speaker 1: killed in a line of duty after thirteen years, leaving
1:03:18
Speaker 1: behind aggrieving fiancee Tara Flynn. American hero Sergeant Michael Schlapman.
1:03:26
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guest, but especially to you for
1:03:28
Speaker 1: being with us tonight and keeping the search for Nancy
1:03:32
Speaker 1: Guthrie alive. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll
1:03:36
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend.