Latest / GAIN Momentum / Delivering Moments of Truth with Unified Data | with Daan de Bruijn

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Delivering Moments of Truth with Unified Data | with Daan de Bruijn · GAIN Momentum

• ​GAIN Momentum episode #41 - Delivering Moments of Truth with Unified Data | with Daan de Bruijn === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the Gain Momentum podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in travel, food service, and hospitality technology. I am here with my co host, Michael Goldrich. How are you? Michel Goldrich: We're doing great. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. And our special guest today is the founder of Book Boost CRM, Daan de Bruijn. How are you? Daan de Bruijn: Great. And thanks so much for inviting me to the show. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. Great to have you. And we focus on timeless lessons. Looking at how companies are scaling and growing and getting through all the challenges therein, the nitty gritty. We frame this around four key questions. So we're going to dive in with the first one and that is, Daan, when it comes to scaling a business, what is the single piece of advice you would give [00:01:00] entrepreneurs from your perspective as a professional in hospitality technology? Mm hmm. Daan de Bruijn: That's a very interesting question, I would say, and quite a big question, right? So there's no simple answer to that. I would say, a few things that, I think are very important is, uh, having a very clear vision as a company. Which is really the why with your company, right? So you can clearly articulate that to your customers and lead with that. And also internally, that it's clear what you're working towards, like for your team and team members, kind of like a North Star that each sort of staff and each day contributes to. And that it's clear where sort of the, the, company's moving towards, because that also eliminates a lot of the nitty gritty stuff that you're Because you clearly know where you're going to, like the sort of the big goal that you have. and as well, it attracts people that feel [00:02:00] related to that. And at the same time, people that do not feel related to that, get like the possibility or the opportunity to choose not to join. Right. So it's very clear as a company, I think that you have a clear vision as well for your customers, as for your teams. Secondly, I think what's, absolutely critical is to be truly customer centric. So to be very close to your customers and few things you can do is to, for example, work with customer advisory board, where you invite customers, to provide you with feedback, to be, involved in, to thinking about what's next and so forth, because we, as a company, as a hotel tech. F are sort of the translator to translate our customers needs into solutions that actually help them day by day, right? That's, that should fundamentally make things easier and better for them to operate with. And, that's one thing you can do, co creation, actually for new things as a SaaS company that are [00:03:00] relevant for not just that customer, but also other customers. You can allow yourself to do co creation, which really means like involving your customer. In the creation of what's next, what's new. And there's so many new things that can still be done, uh, that it actually creates the opportunity to do that. And that naturally makes you very close to your customer. and thirdly, and this is one thing that I really like, what we do with BookBoost as well, is a concept that we frame as a mystery shopping, which is something that we do with almost all of our customers, which is that anyone at BookBoost, uh, visits the hotel or someone at BookBoost can visit the hotel. unannounced and go through the guest journey and really experience it from a guest perspective. But then typically we also observe like how employees are doing. We speak with employees and so forth. And it gives you a very clean sort of view on the current status quo. And then we provide like, uh, observations to our customers. And that's another [00:04:00] vehicle that can be used to be close to your customers and always be thinking of, okay, what can be improved? Because we as tech vendors should know our customer needs, maybe even better than they do, so we can provide the right solutions. And lastly, I would say that it's all about the people. And that maybe comes last now in my sort of speech, but it's absolutely not least, of course, and I think we would all agree. Like, if you want to outperform others, you need to work with better people in your team than the others do, right? That goes without saying. Uh, but still it's sometimes overlooked that I feel, and, how to sort of mitigate that is by taking hiring very, very seriously and really seeing it as a concept that gets sufficient attention. And what we've been doing at BookBoost is to set up a four row process where we interview different individuals thirdly, and absolutely, uh, now it comes last, but absolutely not least is that it all comes down to the people you're working with. [00:05:00] Like, if you want to outperform others, you, you have to have better people in your team than others. And what that means is that in your hiring, you need to be very, very like, On point. And, where that sort of goes without saying, and of course sounds obvious, I think it's sometimes still overlooked at, uh, where hiring is not being looked at as a concept kind of. And we at Boopwiz have developed a very thorough process where, like, the best, team members in our team for hiring a specific candidate are asked to interview that individual, And then we have a group of people that all interview that individual one by one. And after the interview, uh, and during the interview, we have a set of criteria based on norms and values, and also based on requirements for that specific role. And after the interview, you're directly like asked to fill out a survey without engaging with anyone else in the team. So you're not like biased by group thinking, right? That way you get [00:06:00] like a hiring process that's really thorough, that's in line with the company's norms and values. that hires the best candidates for that specific role, but also that's least bias, possible because we're all biased and that's just like a reality. That's just normal there. And there's nothing wrong with that, but you can try to tackle that by really making a hiring process. That's as at least bias as possible. And with that hiring the best people so that you can outperform others. So I would argue that these are three, like very important, challenges and opportunities to scale any business. Adam Mogelonsky: So to pick out some threads here of what you said. First off, when you say having your why, both externally to customers and internally, I just wanted to plug one of my favorite books, which is Start With Why by Simon Sinek. And that applies not just for hospitality technology companies or technology companies, but also hotels.[00:07:00] What's a hotel's why? What's a travel company's why? What's a restaurant's why? So that's a very universal lesson. And I'm wondering, is that something that you had from day one in BookBoost when you founded the company, I think, just over seven years ago? In terms of starting with that, why saying we're going to be a, the CRM platform, of choice, or was that something that you sort of pivoted and found within the early years? Daan de Bruijn: I would say yes, actually. That's something we've had from day one, pretty much. I mean, I'm not going to lie, like loads of things changed along the way. And, our sort of journey has really like being like a typical journey as in, working agile and, and, and figuring things out along the go. but one thing that hasn't changed is our sort of why, which has always been like, we wanted to bring our customers closer to theirs. That's always been our why, our vision, and we saw, [00:08:00] like, sort of a, I guess, frustration sometimes in our industry, like, my co founder and I, we've been, uh, working in various hotels, uh, we, have really seen the industry from various angles. We know a lot of hoteliers, and, and sometimes you see that, whereas the intention is, you Hotel is to wanna be hospitable often, right? It's such a beautiful thing. Bring people together, create experiences and so forth. It doesn't always allow them to sort of let that out because of certain inefficiencies, certain limit limitations. And we found that, technology could really be a solution there. Uh, so our why has always been like we wanted to bring our customers closer to theirs to enable that sense of connection and that sense of. able to facilitate an experience, uh, so that, that is actually something that we have had from the early days. Yes. Adam Mogelonsky: pick out another thread of what you said, I introduced you as the founder of book boost, but you mentioned co founder. [00:09:00] And I'm wondering, because founding a company by yourself is a huge task, like, and the word huge is, diminutive for what is actually involved for the workload. How did you and your co founder find one another and decide to start a company together? Daan de Bruijn: Yeah. That's also such an interesting question and, uh, so important to, add on, on each other's, I guess, weaknesses and to let each other, uh, thrive in your strengths, right? And that comes down to your dynamic. Uh, so we found each other where we both felt passionate about what I just tried to explain, like this sense of hoteliers not always being able to provide the sort of the products and services that, that they would like to, and where my co founder, uh, has a technical background. My background more sits in commercialization and together we could really like, be a strong team, as where we found our passion together, where we [00:10:00] to some extent knew our strengths and weaknesses, because also that is a journey, but that we felt there was a strong base to go from. And that's really been fundamental in making the decision to jump on this, uh, adventure together. Adam Mogelonsky: So to pull out one more thread, you talk about this mystery shopper. feature or value add that you give to your clients in the hotel industry. And I'm wondering that specific, value add that you give to your hotel clients. Can you offer a specific example where that has then led to either better usage of your product by the hotels to increase customer success or has led to some new feature that you've implemented on the system? Daan de Bruijn: Yeah, absolutely. And. Uh, such a great question, I think, and exactly also the reason, uh, why, uh, we do that, to be close, to our customers. And we have a framework and that actually, uh, we use that [00:11:00] ourselves, but also we, we facilitate that as a workshop, but that's another, tool that we, use. But in regards to mystery shopping, we use that framework for ourselves where we do an analysis. The, sort of the alignment between the, what the hotel is, trying to target, right? As in, what kind of guest fits my experience? Because if you can make that aligned, you have something to, uh, repeat and to build upon. and then with that in mind, you know what's important to that individual, and you know what's important at certain moments. So, so called moments of truth, where either it's important to facilitate what that person needs, or perhaps it's important that brand gets the opportunity to excel in what they do or to express themselves. So moments of truth. And we then test that against like reality. And with that, we are able to sort of pull out a report. And that typically almost always comes with new input, with new ideas, uh, that then either helps us to build up on the platform or [00:12:00] either that helps our customers to better use our platform. Michel Goldrich: with the mystery shop. How do you do the ROI on that? when a hotel says we wanna do that, but what is the, um, is there revenue associated with it or is it strictly better? Yes, customer or guest experience. Daan de Bruijn: Yeah, really the last, uh, so it's actually, it's part of, just what we agree upon when customers sign on with us, uh, or something we, we initiate, we offer, uh, but nine out of 10 customers appreciate it. And for us, it's a free stay, right? And we can experience our hotels, their products. And what the customer gets is yeah, very clean sort of view on, on where they are at and suggestions, uh, essentially on how to improve. So it's like a win win that's sort of like, uh, there's no revenue associated to it directly. Adam Mogelonsky: Dan, we're going to move into our second question, which is, what are some of the common pitfalls or failures you have witnessed that business owners [00:13:00] should look to avoid when scaling their business? Daan de Bruijn: Also such a interesting and, Important question to, think about so you can try and mitigate that. let's say you've, come to a stage where, uh, you've built a company that has a great company culture, which is also essential in really being able to drive sustainable growth, because in driving sustainable growth, you need something strong at the core. That it's repeatable and that people either want to belong to or not want to belong, so that it's clear and sort of sets a clear frame on, or playing field, if you will, that, that enables you to, sort of, uh, move with it, right? So to not only build that, but also maintain that, I think is something that sometimes overlooked that, uh, because once it's there, you can sort of, the pitfall, I guess, could be that you take things for granted and, Where, of course, there's an argument in, culture sort of defining itself. I think as a company, you also have the responsibility of clearly being proactive in [00:14:00] what that is for a specific company and what it isn't because you can't be everything. Not every, every company is for everyone, right? You need to make some sort of, decisions and choices and standpoints in that. And once you've built that, to also maintain that, which also comes down to proactively checking in with each other, making sure that, uh, you always keep communicating transparently with one another, whether it's a success to celebrate that together, right? And to really like embrace that, or whether it's to learn from a failure, but to make sure that when there is such thing. That that is being shared so that we help each other as a team so that you do not create like silos or that, you know, individuals are maybe, maybe feeling ashamed to share these things with one another, because that's not the point. Uh, it's fine if things do not go well, but then it's also important that you learn from it as an individual and as a team, uh, because again, you're contributing to that company's vision, right? that's what, where sort of your loyalty should be at, if you will. [00:15:00] Uh, so to not only build that type of culture, but also to maintain is, I think, very important and perhaps something that's sometimes, overlooked at because it's sort of a pitfall to maybe once you have it to sort of like lean back, too much, maybe. yeah, I think secondly, so another, pitfall is perhaps to. Do not understand what, who exactly you're building your platform for, from a hotel tech SaaS perspective and being too broad as in what customer segments you're trying to serve. You cannot have everyone because that's just, that would just mean too much development, too broad. Uh, you need to very clearly know what customer segment you're building for. And that also involves that sometimes saying no is needed, right, which can be a scary thing because especially I think for startups and entrepreneurs and so forth, we want to find solutions. So it's like tempting to [00:16:00] say, yes, let's go. but there's also a risk with that. Uh, so to clearly know what's your customer segment or can be segments, of course, doesn't need to be just one. but then to, and then to stick with that and to, to constantly sort of review that, and ask yourself if things are aligned. And thirdly, I think that sometimes a pitfall where, products get too complicated to you. So this could be good products. but when it gets too complicated and you need manuals to, to understand things, That shouldn't be the case. Products should be intuitive, fun to use. You should get positive reinforcement, like you should understand as a user why you're using the product and what it's sort of contributing to. But sometimes I think that platforms, and again these could be good platforms, they get so complicated that perhaps features are not being used correctly or people feel frustration to use things or it just takes too much energy to want to use something. [00:17:00] And that could be like a, tricky, um, slope to, to end up on. So to keep the product like easy to use, and that's not an easy thing to do, but is perhaps sometimes a pitfall, especially when a platform gets broader. Michel Goldrich: do you measure, like when you roll out a new feature, uh, do you A, B test it and see how the customers are using to see if they understand it? Like, how do you evaluate whether it's being used or not when you roll something out? Daan de Bruijn: Yeah, thank you. Firstly, we have a, for our design process where before we build anything, it's been like, thoroughly tested with our customers, uh, so that we try to eliminate like complication or things not being intuitive and so forth. And then once it's released or actually in the, before it's released, we beta test with a set of customers. For another round of feedback. And then once it's being released, we measure, uh, so we measure usage, we get feedback, we regularly check in with our customers and ask for a feedback or [00:18:00] ask for certain like points of references to better understand how the platform is being used and also what value it creates. So definitely we, track these things and both from a customer success perspective. That provides insights in how then our customer success teams can better help our customers and often even be proactive, like, Hey, I saw this, I put this together for you so that you can really be one step ahead of them and lead, which is very much appreciated. And secondly, for the product teams to get feedback, from our customers in that way to be used for further product development. Absolutely. Adam Mogelonsky: So to pull on one more thread, going back to the first point about culture, and one of the whole things that we see as companies grow and scale and become very big. They, once you get above a certain point, it becomes very hard for the CEO or the founder or the president to really have that personal connection [00:19:00] with every employee. And that's where we start to see those silos and those, different, you know, Teams with different objectives really emerge. So how do you, how, what's your strategy for maintaining that one to one connection and really driving a personalized and really family oriented culture while scaling your business? Daan de Bruijn: Yeah, super interesting question and, and maybe even more so in the time that we live in, right? which, which I believe is a great gift where, uh, we're not limited to, uh, working from the office. So, so we have, uh, three offices, um, one in Malmo in Sweden, one in Amsterdam and one in Barcelona. And each, Sort of hub we use, uh, as a term, uh, has their own, culture within the company's culture. Uh, so we meet like as a company, we meet, at least two times a year with with everyone. And then within [00:20:00] specific teams, we facilitate that you meet more frequently, which then we also try to, put together in a way that it makes sense. Because you always have the ones that you're working with most closely, right? And you're not engaging with everyone as much, from point of focus perspective as what you're focused on in a company. So that's how we try to maintain like a, personal culture, but also try to provide a setup that enables you to, work remotely or partially remotely. But still be able to meet in person because if you're not able to meet in person that just takes away certain elements, we believe. But on the flip side, if you're being asked to show up in the office each and every day from that hour to that hour, that kind of feels limiting I would say for most people these days. So we're trying to find like a good balance that still facilitates like a culture where we all feel personally involved. Which is so important, right? Because then you actually feel [00:21:00] accountability. You want to share, you want to do things together. You want to really like function as a team. And I do really think that that is like a critical element uh, yeah, in sustainable growth for any company. Really. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, yeah, speaking of evolution, that is the perfect segue into our third question, looking ahead. So Daan, what do you see as the key opportunities and challenges for hotel technology companies in 2024 and beyond. Daan de Bruijn: Generally speaking, uh, we still live, or I would say a fair sort of, judgment or a reality check is that, the expectations that consumers have when it comes to digital, is somewhat not always met by the current status quo in the industry that we deliver. And, uh, that is very important to close that gap, right? And as a, industry rather to be like behind, to really be a front runner. Because I think that we, uh, [00:22:00] have such a beautiful industry. Where we enable people to come together, people to, experience like this is what, uh, really matters. Uh, but we also need to facilitate that so that we make like the little thingies that are perhaps not as exciting to, and at the end do what, what is exciting. That we eliminate that, uh, which means that, uh, we like eliminate anything that sort of could be done. Or that where, where there's no human really, excelling or needed for. So what do we excel in? In, communicating with each other, in sharing experiences with each other, in connection, et cetera. when we can cut out each of these, I call it low value touch points, which are perhaps like filling out a form, or, uh, doing some sort of administrative task. These things could be done by technology so that you actually free up time to do these things that we excel [00:23:00] in as humans. And I think, that's just a big challenge where we still sit, but also a big opportunity where we as hospitality have the opportunity to, uh, always have this, I guess, privilege and maybe responsibility of facilitating products where people can come together, which I believe is a, it's a fantastic thing. but still to close that mismatch between the expectation that consumers have, and the current status quo on, on where we sit, because still, you know, sometimes like I travel to a hotel and I'm still like, Just like almost, missing the online checking because it's so complicated, or it feels like another task on my to do list, whether this is a touchpoint that actually should make me feel welcome, right? And I mean, it's kind of nuts when I say this, it's so obvious, but yeah, I guess the reality check is that, uh, we're not totally there yet. and I think if you look at that more on a micro level, then what I often see is that there is a big challenge [00:24:00] in, centralizing data. So, I think one of the reasons that explains sort of where we're at is that data sometimes sits in different systems or in silos and that blocks you from using it and makes you more disconnected digitally from your customers, right, digitally from your guests. And that's very important to fix and I think we just have such a fragmented landscape in our industry that we need to find a way to, find the best products. Uh, but in a way that is connected and, and that it creates a seamless experience for, for not only the ones using it, the operators, but also for the guests, right? So that, um, that's very important and, yeah, I would say that's, uh, like a big challenge and, opportunity that we will try to work, uh, towards and, and, and perhaps that's also, uh, very important in that to realize, to really try and do that together, you know? Michel Goldrich: Yeah, I, and I like the use of the word you use, seamless, because when I think about it is You want to reduce friction. You want to reduce all the [00:25:00] touch points. And I think what you were talking about there was exactly about that, is not just reducing friction for the guest, but also reducing friction for the hotel operator to make things more seamless. So, I think that's great. Adam Mogelonsky: when we're talking about seamless and siloed data versus centralization, we have to bring in the dreaded I word in hospitality, which is integrations. So therein, from the outsider's perspective, it's very easy to look and go, Oh, we have APIs, we have SDKs to implement, but. That still belies a ton of development work on both sides, the platform and the hotel side to implement those. So I'm wondering, Dan, could you describe your overall approach to integrations in terms of selecting the partners you want to work with strategically and also how you devote resources to mapping and [00:26:00] completing those integrations? Daan de Bruijn: Absolutely. so we, the way we look at that is, uh, by how we've set up our architecture in our platform. So we have, uh, developed a CDP customer data platform. That's, centralizing data from various sources, and that creates a centralized guest profile. that is built API first and what it enables, to our customers to do is to look at their data both from a group level or perhaps from a selection of hotels in a specific, area or in a specific, way that makes sense for that customer to look at the data from a group level on that. But also to look upon the data from a one to one base, right? And really tap into like each and every individual and make sure that you can personalize the experience. So the CDP is really a loose standing, product in our architecture. And then on top of that, we have built a [00:27:00] CRM and a unified inbox that then our customers can use. And the CRM comes with a guest journey builder so that you can easily like drag and drop touch points. That's true. Fairly easy to build guest journeys, like very intuitive to do. And it comes with guest app for things like online check in and all that for like interaction. And it comes with a marketing module for more sort of the, uh, newsletters, the monthly campaigns, re engagement, and so, so that comes with the CRM. And then with the second product, which is the unified inbox that is built for any communication that comes inbound. So when a guest asks a question on bookend. com, Expedia, email, WhatsApp. Google Messaging, etc. There's 15 channels that are being unified into one interface. That's where the agents, the hosts, receptionists, reservation agents, and so forth, can work together and comes with smart features to help operators to, for example, Automate parts of the repetitive questions with a good [00:28:00] integration to open AI, other smart features to work more efficiently. And again, you have all the data to your disposal because you have that CDP at the core that then also displays the guest profile and relevant data points in that interface. So how we tackle that is by really seeing that as loose products in the way we've architectured the platform so that we can always live up to the promise to centralise. But at the same time, it comes down to integrations indeed, and you cannot build all the integrations at the same time. So we have to be selective, uh, and that's just, a work in progress in, in terms of prioritization. But the, building blocks are being put in place, in that way. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. Moving into our fourth and final question. Daan, what are the key things innovative leaders and entrepreneurs should prioritize and focus on to gain traction for their business? Daan de Bruijn: I would say that, um, Looking at, any operation and, looking at it in a way that you identify any type of touch points [00:29:00] that are low value and any type of touch points that are high value. And once you've done that, you find solutions to eliminate any type of touch points that's low value to be done by humans, because that's not where the magic sits. That can be fixed by technology these days. And there's great products available. It's all possible to do. and once you are at that stage where you can just focus on things that do add value as, uh, being done by a human. So welcoming a guest, having a conversation, uh, like just things that are unique, you know, and that also creates a connection and joy, uh, you can, really create a great experience that's truly unique for a guest. And you need to find ways to, or that's, that's my advice to try and find ways to help your organization to get there so that any individual that works within the organization [00:30:00] can contribute in that way, rather than doing, spending time on low value touchpoints that could be, automated by technology. And when you do that, what is very interesting to look at as well is that when you can customize the experience. This has a tremendous impact on guest satisfaction and loyalty. So I would actually like to refer to a study by TripAdvisor that looked at thousands of guests that have been extremely satisfied with the stay. 64 percent of those would recommend the hotel to others. That's a good number. However, if you add a delightful surprise to that, Which means something unexpected, like could be a note on the room to welcome you back because, uh, you've been there last year, or it could be something else that just customized the experience to you as a unique individual. Then 94 percent would actively recommend the hotel, which means [00:31:00] like, Leaving a review, uh, wanting to come back there, talking to friends and families to promote. And the reason for that is that it's something that you do not expect. And that's something that creates like an experience that you're curious towards, right? Because what if I go there again? What will I get next time? And the beauty is that today with technology, you can actually do that in a structured way. Uh, so you can do personalization at scale. By really keeping track of your guest data and having a centralized profile that's thorough enough to understand like preferences or details about that specific individual, maybe on previous behaviors and so forth, so that you can tailor and customize and make the next experience relevant to that specific individual, because you have the context of that guest. And when you can do that at scale for each and every one, there's, it's a lot of value, because of people appreciating it so [00:32:00] much that 94 percent will actively recommend that hotel and will want to come back to it. Adam Mogelonsky: You know, just to pull on that thread because, it's such a profound statistic. The 94 percent that's close to a hundred percent of people. So, uh, you know, nine or 10 people will recommend a hotel. If there's a surprise and delight or experiential element, and then of course, technology allowing us to do that at scale. this deserves emphasis, but I always try to drive the, drive the point home by moving from the abstract to the personal or the story, story level. So to give user listeners a visual here for how that works in action, I have some that I could draw upon for this surprise and delight, but I'm wondering, Dan, could you share with us one or two examples that you have. In terms of how this Surprise and Delight and [00:33:00] incorporating CRM level personalization plays out at hotels, either book boost clients or otherwise, that you've seen really work on that level. Daan de Bruijn: Absolutely. And there's, one example that I would, really like to highlight here, which, I believe is absolutely amazing. So it's, uh, one of our customers on, uh, Gotland, which is an island here on the east coast of Sweden. And they have a amazing, very clean, product, which is all about being sustainable. So they find it extremely important to keep their footprint as low as possible. And, also want to share that with the guests to make the guests aware of actually the energy that we use, because their standpoint is that we're probably most of us today. are aware of the importance of that is that not everyone knows what it actually [00:34:00] like how much damage does it take to take a shower right what's that actually in proportion in maybe in relation to uh the lights that you're using and so forth so there's still an opportunity there to educate and what they do is they offer the booking Without any, electricity and water usage and so forth. And then anything you use throughout the stay, so if you take a shower, or if you, turn on the heating, or if you, uh, watch television, et cetera, you see it being added to the stay. And at the end of it, you get like an overview where you pay off the electricity that you've been used. And then next time, if you come back to it, they have already added that to the, uh, record. So to the guest ID, because they keep track of it, they can easily add it to their, guest profiles. They can already, uh, anticipate that, right? So if you're a low energy user, already, prepare the room in that sense. And I think this is such [00:35:00] a great example, but the I could go on and on and on, and there's so many examples. I think this one really stands out. And, we've had to do some, or they've had to do some custom integrations to get there. So it's really sort of the more sophisticated cases from a technology standpoint. but the same principle applies to perhaps offering, the same product as you've been, purchased before, right? Uh, we have one customer that, uh, has an amazing spa facility, And they ask pre stay, uh, what size of bathrobe you would like, and then they prepare the room with that size of bathrobe. Uh, so it's just like tailoring to what you need. And sometimes that can be done by data that's historically available. And sometimes that can be done by asking guests questions pre stay in a formative way so that you can also add that and make it conditional to what's what comes next, because what comes next in their guest journey is that there's a task for housekeeping to deliver on it. But then also next time they know, so then it's historical data. So [00:36:00] next time they know, if you would like a small meeting, more large. So sometimes it's historical. Sometimes it's by asking guests, and by keeping track of the centralized guest profile, you can basically, enable yourself to do these kinds of things. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow, I was going to say, uh, you know, you, you've gamified energy usage for that example on Gotland. And my first thought was that you'd have a lot of people trying to limit their score so they wouldn't be showering. And then you'd have a lot of slightly smelly people around the hotel, right? but you know, I, I do look at it, the positive in terms of energy usage. more so the, education or to use a buzz term, edutainment of energy usage, because I don't think a lot of people even know how much water, and heating they're even using on the average stay or day to day in, in their own apartments. So that's a really cool example. And, and then the other one about bathrobes is something so. Simple that we [00:37:00] can now use and, and really take something like a, you know, I'm a large person, so I need a large bathrobe moving that from the comments field in the PMS guest profile into an actual database item that can then be acted upon to further personalizations. And, I'm wondering there in with the bathrobes, could you speak to some further continuations on that in terms of how. The CDP might be involved or the CRM might be involved to actually take that information and then continue the guest journey even further along that, just whether it's an example or something you're working on at BookBoost. Daan de Bruijn: Yeah. So what we're continuously working at is, um, providing any relevant touch points throughout the guest journey. So where you can see the guest journey as a, continuous thing. So there's pre booking, pre stay, in stay, post stay, and then hopefully there's [00:38:00] pre booking again, right? Because, uh, of course, it's a great thing to have guests want to come back to your hotels. So at any stage, figuring out what's relevant and then being proactive. So indeed, rather than, perhaps the bathrobe example is not the best here, but rather than wait for the guests. Welcome to the reception desk. Like, Hey, actually, my bathroom is too small to be one step ahead of that. And to make sure that you provide the right size bathrobe so that the guest doesn't even need to ask. That principle applies to any touch points throughout the guest journey. So when you can really like be one step ahead, you can take lead in driving the experience. And as a hotelier, you know, uh, what's the best experience for your guests. And actually, that's what your guests sign up for, because they sign up for your product. So they're actually ready to be left with that, you know? So if you can be one step ahead, wherever it sits in the guest journey, and the better you can do that, the more it will resonate, the more impact it will have on guest satisfaction and loyalty, [00:39:00] and the more revenue you will be able to generate. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow, makes perfect sense. It's up to hotels to get it done. Any closing thoughts, Michael or Daan? Michel Goldrich: no, I just, uh, I think it's absolutely fascinating what you did with, you know, the whole bathrobe thing. I mean, sometimes things that are so simple are so powerful, and those are actually the ones that make the biggest difference. I mean, it's got a lot of, I'm already thinking about different ways you can employ that or other little things that you can do like that. I think that's brilliant. Daan de Bruijn: Great. And I love how that, seems to inspire you to think about our use case, which is exactly the point. right. Cause the better we can do that, the better experiences we can, deliver. And thank you so much. I love the term you just used Adam, and thanks so much for having me on the, on the podcast. Adam Mogelonsky: Great to have you, Daan. Thanks. Daan de Bruijn: Thank you. [00:40:00]