Latest / Like a Virgin / Three Crazy Dads (feat. Jill Gutowitz)

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Three Crazy Dads (feat. Jill Gutowitz) · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: I worked at the cold Stone franchise that my parents owned,
0:06
Speaker 1: cold Stone Neppo Baby. No, there's literally there's no. I
0:13
Speaker 1: guess at the time, yes, I was an I can't
0:16
Speaker 1: believe you were a cold Stone Nappo baby. That's so iconic.
0:24
Speaker 1: I can't believe that. It's like Christmas and what is it?
0:28
Speaker 1: Five days now and I still am not in the
0:32
Speaker 1: Christmas spirit in almost anyway. I don't mean to be
0:37
Speaker 1: a scrooge. I don't need to be a grinch. It's
0:39
Speaker 1: not that I'm actively hating it. It's really not that.
0:42
Speaker 1: It's like almost that I'm just completely apathetic about it.
0:48
Speaker 1: You're you're standing on the top of Mount Trumpet right now.
0:50
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not being a grinch. It's not that
0:53
Speaker 1: I it's and it actually feels it's not like I
0:56
Speaker 1: feel like a grinch in that I'm the one person
0:58
Speaker 1: who's feeling this way. It seems like collectively a lot
1:02
Speaker 1: of people are feeling this about this holiday season. I
1:05
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. It's less of like a
1:08
Speaker 1: violent overthrowing of Christmas and more of like I am
1:13
Speaker 1: dissociating from this Christmas season for whatever reason. Well, it
1:17
Speaker 1: also feels like the culture is not as obsessed with
1:22
Speaker 1: Christmas this year, Like there haven't been any big Christmas
1:26
Speaker 1: movies or memes. I haven't I haven't done my annual
1:32
Speaker 1: um tweeting the Grinch poster where he's holding the ornament
1:37
Speaker 1: and with the caption is he do you know? Which
1:41
Speaker 1: I like, literally tweeted every year and without fail, every
1:45
Speaker 1: year it goes viral. So we'll see if that happens again.
1:49
Speaker 1: What are your what are your Christmas plans? By the way,
1:52
Speaker 1: well this is so funny. So Justin and I my
1:55
Speaker 1: best friend, and I go home to my parents for
1:59
Speaker 1: Christmas usually, but this year we are going a day
2:04
Speaker 1: after Christmas because Justin and I have book tickets to
2:08
Speaker 1: see Adele in Vegas on Christmas Eve or in Christmas
2:13
Speaker 1: on Christmas Eve, because tickets are like four hundred and
2:17
Speaker 1: fifty dollars cheaper spending Christmas with Adele's. I'm spending Christmas
2:23
Speaker 1: Eve with Adele and I'm staying the night at Caesar's Palace.
2:26
Speaker 1: And apparently the Caesar's Palace buffet is incredible. I've been
2:30
Speaker 1: told there are crab legs. I am worried about you
2:32
Speaker 1: in a buffet because you do have a very sensitive tummy,
2:35
Speaker 1: and I don't want you to get sick. I also have,
2:38
Speaker 1: you know, not that much restraint around unlimited around food. Yeah,
2:43
Speaker 1: you really really really want I'm a garbage disposal in
2:48
Speaker 1: that regard, but I would like especially be careful with
2:50
Speaker 1: the shell fish, babe. Yeah, that's gonna that's gonna really
2:54
Speaker 1: do a number on me. And they're after a daisy.
2:56
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like horny on Christmas Eve.
2:58
Speaker 1: Well you could find me. You can find some Christmas trade. Yeah,
3:02
Speaker 1: justin I sharing the show. You could cruise cruise at adel. Honestly,
3:09
Speaker 1: it will probably be mostly faggots, like lonely faggots at
3:14
Speaker 1: the Adele Christmas Eve show. Most mostly fagelis as we
3:17
Speaker 1: say in Yiddish, and probably jew It and probably Jewish people,
3:21
Speaker 1: probably people that don't celebrate Christmas. What are you doing
3:24
Speaker 1: for for for for the holidays? Um? So, my best
3:28
Speaker 1: friend Ryan and I always go to his mom's in
3:31
Speaker 1: Long Island for Christmas and we are going this year. Um.
3:35
Speaker 1: I think another like part of the reason why it
3:39
Speaker 1: isn't feeling like Christmas this year is that every year
3:42
Speaker 1: we do, you know, traditional Jewish Christmas, we go to
3:45
Speaker 1: the movies on Christmas Day, and this year there really
3:49
Speaker 1: isn't a big Christmas Day film release. I know, well,
3:54
Speaker 1: Matilda's coming out on closest day on Netflix, but it's
3:58
Speaker 1: also on Netflix, so it's like kind of not the same.
4:01
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like we even talked about not
4:03
Speaker 1: going to the movies on Christmas Day because we've already
4:06
Speaker 1: seen Avatar. Like I'm not going to go see The
4:08
Speaker 1: Fableman's on Christmas Day or ever. Um So I think
4:13
Speaker 1: we might just watch something at home, and like you know,
4:18
Speaker 1: we do dinner obviously, but and usually the night before
4:22
Speaker 1: we go to friends of theirs for a Christmas Eve party.
4:26
Speaker 1: But I think it's going to be pretty low key Christmas.
4:28
Speaker 1: I also have not been doing a lot of gift
4:32
Speaker 1: buying this year. Like Ryan asked me the other day,
4:35
Speaker 1: when you've been Christmas shopping, have you been buying stuff
4:38
Speaker 1: for yourself as well? And I told him, actually, it's
4:41
Speaker 1: more that when I've been buying things for myselves, I'm
4:44
Speaker 1: also trying to Christmas shop in addition to that. Um
4:49
Speaker 1: but I think my rule this year is like in
4:52
Speaker 1: almost except in a few cases, if I'm not seeing
4:56
Speaker 1: you on Christmas. You're not getting a gift good to know,
5:01
Speaker 1: good to know, except for except for you. You are
5:04
Speaker 1: getting except for me obviously. Um. I was going to ask, Okay,
5:09
Speaker 1: I don't want to make you get into it, obviously
5:11
Speaker 1: because there's so much to say. But you saw Avatar.
5:15
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I did see Avatar on Saturday, Virgins Virgins.
5:18
Speaker 1: We you were reading your survey results. We know that
5:21
Speaker 1: you don't like spoilers or when we like review things
5:23
Speaker 1: too early, So this isn't going to be a review
5:25
Speaker 1: of Avatar. But I have to ask you, Rose, what
5:28
Speaker 1: did you think? It was incredible? It was incredible, show stopping,
5:32
Speaker 1: never been done before, it was. I loved it. It
5:36
Speaker 1: was so much fun, It was emotional, it was beautiful.
5:40
Speaker 1: It was everything I wanted and more. I think, like,
5:43
Speaker 1: we'll talk about it more in depth once you've seen it,
5:45
Speaker 1: because you do plan to see it, right, Yeah, I will.
5:48
Speaker 1: I will eventually see it. Whenever I pulled pull together
5:52
Speaker 1: the willpower to hold in my piss for three and
5:54
Speaker 1: a half hours. Honestly, is it three it's three hours
5:57
Speaker 1: and ten minutes. Um, I did go he midway through.
6:01
Speaker 1: I was not gonna you know, James Cameron has given
6:03
Speaker 1: us his blessing. He said, you should go to the
6:07
Speaker 1: to the bathroom during the movies if you have to,
6:09
Speaker 1: And there are many points during the movie where you
6:12
Speaker 1: can just scurry off and piss for a minute or two.
6:15
Speaker 1: It's fine. Um, it's a lot of movie and like,
6:18
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of movie. I actually have thought before,
6:21
Speaker 1: like I think this would be a really good resource
6:23
Speaker 1: to have, is if someone did like TikTok's where it
6:26
Speaker 1: was like, here's the perfect part in ex popular movie
6:33
Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom. Maybe I'll make that my
6:36
Speaker 1: TikTok Niche like James Cameron actually should have prescribed like
6:40
Speaker 1: there should be like a little ding ding ding on
6:42
Speaker 1: the screen, and it should well because I saw it
6:44
Speaker 1: in three D, although I didn't see it an I'm out, god,
6:47
Speaker 1: did you know it was? Oh? Actually wait? I did
6:51
Speaker 1: barf the morning after because I went to movies. We
6:56
Speaker 1: saw We saw Avatar eight We saw Avatar eight p m.
6:59
Speaker 1: And I didn't have dinner before and I got a
7:02
Speaker 1: huge I got a huge buget of popcorn, a pepsi
7:04
Speaker 1: and Twizzlers and I ate it all on an empty stomach.
7:07
Speaker 1: And when I woke up in the morning. I had
7:09
Speaker 1: a hair appointment yesterday morning, and I woke up feeling nauseous,
7:12
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, I had to go sit
7:14
Speaker 1: in like a salon for for three hours, like I
7:17
Speaker 1: can't be sick, And I like, the second I got
7:21
Speaker 1: out of bed, I ran to the bathroom and puked
7:24
Speaker 1: up popcorn, twistlers and PEPSI And then I had to
7:27
Speaker 1: go to a salon and get my hair done for
7:30
Speaker 1: three hours. Oh my god, I was asking that facetious.
7:34
Speaker 1: And then I had to go and then I had
7:35
Speaker 1: to go to to tie his house and eat chili.
7:39
Speaker 1: Well that sounds like a great post bomb meal, honestly,
7:42
Speaker 1: chili delicious. Yes, um, you're like sure? Um. I started
7:48
Speaker 1: very weird. Maybe it's because we were texting, but I
7:51
Speaker 1: started watching the original Avatar last night. I flicked it
7:53
Speaker 1: on at nine fifty two pm, which was a terrible idea,
7:58
Speaker 1: I mean, but I watched the first third of it.
7:59
Speaker 1: I had forgotten the movie entirely. I've never I've only
8:03
Speaker 1: seen it once in theaters when it came out. Forgot
8:06
Speaker 1: it entirely. What crazy movie. And the lead, this guy,
8:12
Speaker 1: the lead of this movie, what a nobody he is?
8:14
Speaker 1: What he is truly truly nothing, a nothing character, a
8:19
Speaker 1: nothing role, a nothing actor. Like he adds nothing to
8:24
Speaker 1: the movie. And it's so I don't think. I don't
8:27
Speaker 1: think he adds nothing to the movie. But he's getting
8:30
Speaker 1: to that. He certainly added nothing to the world, like
8:33
Speaker 1: he is not. He was not really in any other
8:35
Speaker 1: big movies. He was this year in Under the Banner
8:39
Speaker 1: of Heaven, that X show with Andrew Garfield, and he
8:43
Speaker 1: was also a spoiler alert, he was the villain. Um,
8:48
Speaker 1: oh that is a spoiler. He yeah, he's he's whatever.
8:54
Speaker 1: But Avatar, the First Avatar is incredible, one of the
8:57
Speaker 1: best movies ever made James Cameron and is a genius. Um.
9:02
Speaker 1: Speaking of James Cameron, I saw Titannique on Friday Night. Oh,
9:10
Speaker 1: I've heard amazing amazing things. Was it? Was it good? Yeah?
9:13
Speaker 1: So for anyone who hasn't heard of it. Tight Tannique
9:16
Speaker 1: is an off Broadway show that is basically Titanic the
9:20
Speaker 1: movie as a Celine Dion jukebox musical, and Selene Dion
9:26
Speaker 1: is a character. She is telling the story of Titanic
9:31
Speaker 1: because in the world of this show, she was on
9:33
Speaker 1: the Titanic. Um. So she is so she's telling the story. Um,
9:38
Speaker 1: it's so fun. I have not had that much fun
9:41
Speaker 1: at a show in in a long time. It was
9:44
Speaker 1: we were hooton and holleran. Um, Frankie Grande's in it.
9:48
Speaker 1: He was, he was good. Frankie Grande's Frankie Grande's in it.
9:53
Speaker 1: He didn't even you know, he was very humble. He
9:55
Speaker 1: did not have his own bow. He bowed with the
9:57
Speaker 1: rest of the ensemble. Wow, that's beautiful. But it was
10:00
Speaker 1: so fun. The actress who played Celine Dion was so amazing. Unfortunately, like,
10:06
Speaker 1: because I'm sure of licensing issues, they couldn't use the
10:09
Speaker 1: big big hits like it's all coming back to me now,
10:12
Speaker 1: wasn't in it? No way. They probably spent all their
10:15
Speaker 1: money on getting My Heart will go on. Um, But
10:19
Speaker 1: it's full of a lot of like fun pop culture references.
10:22
Speaker 1: Some of them are like a little bit too on
10:24
Speaker 1: the nose, but it is very funny. It's a really
10:27
Speaker 1: good time and if you're in New York um and
10:32
Speaker 1: want just like a super fun, very gay theatrical experience,
10:37
Speaker 1: I would absolutely recommend it. And tickets aren't that expensive.
10:40
Speaker 1: I think we paid like a hundred bucks. I I
10:43
Speaker 1: mean like I love like a cheap Broadway show or
10:45
Speaker 1: just a Broadway show that's like off Broadway, off Broadway, sorry,
10:49
Speaker 1: home grown, like really trying something really not like un serious,
10:53
Speaker 1: unafraid to take risks. Um. I know that like eight
10:56
Speaker 1: Normal was revived like this this past week with all
10:59
Speaker 1: this like it organizing and all these like you know,
11:02
Speaker 1: like Black Mafia celebrities that are sponsoring shows and stuff
11:04
Speaker 1: and like between that between like a Noma and Titanic.
11:07
Speaker 1: I have like a slate of things now to and
11:10
Speaker 1: I'm back in New York t technique. It is currently
11:13
Speaker 1: the fifth night of Hanukkah. Happy Hanukah to all who celebrate,
11:18
Speaker 1: and um, we're celebrating today with the help of Jill Goodowitz,
11:22
Speaker 1: who's here to talk about disobedience with us. Who better
11:26
Speaker 1: to have than Jill honestly author of a Girls Can
11:29
Speaker 1: Kiss Now and one of the most powerful lesbians on
11:32
Speaker 1: the internet. We have to say she moves culture. She
11:35
Speaker 1: influences me. Every day. Tis the season to light the menora,
11:39
Speaker 1: fry up some latcas and spit into your hasidic ex
11:43
Speaker 1: girlfriend's mouth because this is like a virgin the show.
11:46
Speaker 1: Well give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm ros Damo
11:50
Speaker 1: and I'm Fran Toronto and U hala hala, not that
11:57
Speaker 1: I mean yes that Fran. I do want to kind
12:13
Speaker 1: of let you in since you are you are the
12:16
Speaker 1: virgin to Judaism today is that Hanica is like not
12:24
Speaker 1: a very cool holiday. It's not even like one of
12:26
Speaker 1: the major Jewish holidays, and it's sort of prevalence in
12:31
Speaker 1: culture is like really like an American fabrication to like
12:36
Speaker 1: create like an alt Christmas or like a you know,
12:41
Speaker 1: like a parallel for Christmas. But Monica is like a
12:44
Speaker 1: pretty stupid holiday. Doesn't matter. I'm I'm much more of
12:49
Speaker 1: a passover girl myself. Um. But one way that is
12:55
Speaker 1: great to celebrate Hanaka is to watch Disobedience That to
13:00
Speaker 1: dozen seventeen films starring the Rachel's, as they know, Rachel
13:05
Speaker 1: Vice and Rachel mc adams. Jill. I wish you could
13:09
Speaker 1: have seen us trying to think of, uh something like
13:13
Speaker 1: we were trying to think of like holiday movies, and
13:14
Speaker 1: then we were like, wait, Jewish holiday movies, like what
13:17
Speaker 1: do we do? Like what do we do? We were
13:19
Speaker 1: brainstorming for like you know, these upcoming episodes and the
13:23
Speaker 1: way that I brought up Eight Crazy Nights multiple times,
13:27
Speaker 1: and I just like, I feel like I didn't hear it.
13:31
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, speaking speaking of my mom last night
13:35
Speaker 1: when she texted me, she was texting me photos and
13:38
Speaker 1: video from our like family hanakka thing of my nephew
13:42
Speaker 1: opening his gifts, and then she started sending me the
13:47
Speaker 1: lyrics to eight Crazy Nights line by line, and I
13:50
Speaker 1: kept saying stop, and I eventually had to put on
13:55
Speaker 1: my do not disturb mode. Um. But for the virgins,
14:00
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen Disobedience, or if you just need
14:02
Speaker 1: a little refresher, Disobedience is a two thousand and seventeen
14:07
Speaker 1: film directed by directed Sebastian lelo Um. It's based on
14:17
Speaker 1: a book by the same name, and it stars um
14:20
Speaker 1: Rachel Weiss as a former Orthodox Sidic Jewish woman who
14:26
Speaker 1: goes home to her like small insular Hathidic community after
14:31
Speaker 1: her father, who is the community rabbi, dies and there
14:35
Speaker 1: she reunites with her childhood best friend who has married
14:40
Speaker 1: her childhood lesbian lover played by um Rachel mccadams of
14:46
Speaker 1: The Notebook and Mean Girls, and they you know, rekindle
14:50
Speaker 1: their love affair. Um Jill I knowing you. I know
14:56
Speaker 1: this is a very important film to you. It really is,
15:00
Speaker 1: I mean it is. I think it is like the
15:04
Speaker 1: maybe the one good lesbian movie done by a man,
15:10
Speaker 1: really the only one. I'm trying to think, like when
15:12
Speaker 1: you think of other movies that have like tried to
15:14
Speaker 1: come up against something like Disobedience, what comes to mind?
15:17
Speaker 1: I mean, I like Carol, I do love I stand Carol,
15:21
Speaker 1: but I feel like, you know, like it wasn't made
15:24
Speaker 1: only by a man. Um and like Imagine Me and You,
15:28
Speaker 1: I would say, is another movie that is like a
15:30
Speaker 1: lesbian movie by a man that's actually kind of good.
15:34
Speaker 1: But the guy who wrote and directed Imagine Me and
15:36
Speaker 1: You also directed Mamma Mia. So like it, so you
15:42
Speaker 1: understand like culturally he gets it clearly? Is Mom and
15:48
Speaker 1: Mia also love hanaka film in a way? Say more? Yes, Yeah,
15:53
Speaker 1: go ahead and elaborate on that road. I'm gonna try
15:55
Speaker 1: to I'm gonna try to see if I can make
15:56
Speaker 1: you one so three crazy dads. Well, okay, actually I
16:02
Speaker 1: guess Mama Mia would be more of a Christmas film
16:04
Speaker 1: because the three Dads would be the three Wise Men,
16:08
Speaker 1: and Amanda Sayford would be Jesus would be like the
16:12
Speaker 1: Virgin Birth because they never figure out who her dad is. Right, So, okay,
16:18
Speaker 1: Mamma Mia is not a Hottako film, but it is
16:20
Speaker 1: a Christmas film and I will make you watch it
16:23
Speaker 1: one day. Friend. Yeah, I die trying. I've watched like
16:29
Speaker 1: probably parts of it on a plane. No. No, it
16:31
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it doesn't count. Also does not count
16:34
Speaker 1: that you've only watched the share parts of Mamma Mia too.
16:37
Speaker 1: You bring it up every time we have this argument,
16:39
Speaker 1: and I won't stand for it. I'm in shop right now,
16:43
Speaker 1: Like I know that that's like the point of the podcast,
16:45
Speaker 1: but the fact that you haven't seen Mommy is honestly
16:47
Speaker 1: shocking to me. I tried. We tried once at my house, right. No, No,
16:53
Speaker 1: we watched. Every time I've tried to get you to
16:54
Speaker 1: watch it, you've said, no, we watched the first minutes.
16:58
Speaker 1: That's not true. That it's not that's not true, Ellen,
17:03
Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I would never I would never
17:06
Speaker 1: say that. Um, this is this is literally true. Though
17:09
Speaker 1: the virgins have to know that we have literally watched
17:11
Speaker 1: the first they haven't got me, which is really appropriate
17:16
Speaker 1: because um, we're talking about Hanakah, which is the festival
17:19
Speaker 1: of lights. Fran, do you do Fran, do you know
17:23
Speaker 1: the story of Hanukkah. I don't know the story of Hanukkah.
17:27
Speaker 1: I do know the story of you know, Hasidic Judaism,
17:30
Speaker 1: because I lived in South Williamsburg for four years, five years, Jill, Jill,
17:37
Speaker 1: could you give us like a teal d r of
17:39
Speaker 1: the story of Hanukkah? Honestly, I cannot. I'm like, okay,
17:46
Speaker 1: do we need it. I think it's you know, we
17:49
Speaker 1: need it to understand that. I think it's you know,
17:53
Speaker 1: this is our Hanaka special. I think you know, we
17:55
Speaker 1: should should talk about it. Um. So there were these
18:00
Speaker 1: there were these gays called the Maccabee's, and they there's
18:05
Speaker 1: something about a temple. The temple was destroyed or something
18:09
Speaker 1: where they built a temple and they only had enough
18:12
Speaker 1: oil um to fuck for one night. Um, because there
18:18
Speaker 1: are a bunch of bottoms and and there was only
18:22
Speaker 1: enough oil um for one night. But then through the
18:27
Speaker 1: magic of Rachel, weis the oil lasted for eight nights.
18:31
Speaker 1: And that's how we have the story of Hanukah, which
18:34
Speaker 1: when you say oil you mean lube, right, yes, I
18:37
Speaker 1: mean and let me be clear, um, Disobedience has nothing
18:42
Speaker 1: to do with hanukah Um. Really, the only Jewish holiday
18:46
Speaker 1: that is depicted in it at all is Shabbat or
18:49
Speaker 1: shabus Um as we as we call it. But um,
18:54
Speaker 1: I mean, Jill, like what what what about Disobedience do
18:57
Speaker 1: you think is so vanta stick? Even though it was
19:01
Speaker 1: directed by a man? I mean I genuinely think it's hot.
19:04
Speaker 1: Like I like not to get into like the like repression,
19:08
Speaker 1: problematic lesbian repression of it all, but like it is hot,
19:12
Speaker 1: and I do think that they have like good chemistry,
19:15
Speaker 1: and I do like genuinely like the story. Um, so
19:20
Speaker 1: basically the things that make a movie good in general.
19:24
Speaker 1: But that's like it feels like a low bar. But
19:26
Speaker 1: like when it comes to like lesbian movies, yeah, there
19:29
Speaker 1: aren't that many good ones that fulfill that criteria. Yeah.
19:33
Speaker 1: But also not to get too far ahead, but it
19:35
Speaker 1: unlike most sad lesbian movies. Well, I mean, first of all,
19:38
Speaker 1: it's not a period film, which is great to see, um,
19:42
Speaker 1: And it has us somewhat hopeful ending. Yeah, and it's
19:47
Speaker 1: like like somewhat somewhat like Carol, Like it's not necessarily
19:50
Speaker 1: a coppy ending, but it's a hopeful one. Yeah, totally.
19:53
Speaker 1: And it's like it's unique, you know, like I feel
19:56
Speaker 1: like a lot of like the lesbian movies, like you said,
19:58
Speaker 1: like there's so many like pure pieces and whatever that
20:01
Speaker 1: like make the movie unique, but also then kind of
20:03
Speaker 1: not because there's so many, and I feel like this
20:07
Speaker 1: is actually just like whether it was a like queer
20:09
Speaker 1: movie or not, it is like a unique story. Um yeah,
20:14
Speaker 1: I feel like when you when we were when I
20:16
Speaker 1: was watching this, I I was thinking kind of along
20:19
Speaker 1: the same lines because I was like, Okay, this is
20:21
Speaker 1: a movie that's like first and foremost about having brown hair,
20:25
Speaker 1: and and secondly it's as CB has pointed out, and
20:28
Speaker 1: the chat about edging, like the sexual tension in this
20:32
Speaker 1: film is so good. And I don't know if I
20:36
Speaker 1: just like what because okay, I'm not gonna lie, Like
20:38
Speaker 1: the first like you know, thirty forty minutes are like
20:41
Speaker 1: a little boring before we get to like the hot stuff.
20:44
Speaker 1: But like I don't know if I wasn't paying attention,
20:46
Speaker 1: but like I did not see the Rachel's and their
20:51
Speaker 1: first the first moment that they like kind of kiss.
20:55
Speaker 1: I was like I just remember being like what the fuck?
20:58
Speaker 1: Because the tension between them was bubbling at such a
21:03
Speaker 1: subtle simmer while the rest of the drama of the
21:06
Speaker 1: film is happening around them that I was like focused
21:08
Speaker 1: on the drama and not on like what was like
21:11
Speaker 1: actually sparking. Um. So, I don't know. I think that
21:14
Speaker 1: like the ways that they cannot satisfy each other, the
21:19
Speaker 1: ways that they couldn't touch each other for so long,
21:22
Speaker 1: was like a big part of why the lust in
21:24
Speaker 1: this movie is like so satisfying. And like the spin scene,
21:27
Speaker 1: obviously all the different things that like make this movie
21:30
Speaker 1: really memorable are around, like the sex. Well, it's like
21:33
Speaker 1: they can't they can't even acknowledge it. And and I
21:35
Speaker 1: mean I don't think that the first forty minutes of
21:38
Speaker 1: the film aren't boring. I actually think the tension is
21:41
Speaker 1: so interesting, and I think you have to understand Ronete
21:47
Speaker 1: rachel Weiss's character and how she's left and what it's
21:51
Speaker 1: like for her to come back. And I think this
21:53
Speaker 1: film is so good at showing rather than telling, like
21:57
Speaker 1: so much as communicated without any one ever talking about it.
22:02
Speaker 1: And those moments where the tension bubbles over, Like I
22:06
Speaker 1: think about the scene where they're all having dinner and
22:09
Speaker 1: she's like, I want to sell the house and they're like,
22:12
Speaker 1: we'll talk about it later. We'll talk about it later.
22:14
Speaker 1: And it's such a Jewish thing. It is. The guilt
22:18
Speaker 1: dripping from this film is like, I mean, this is
22:22
Speaker 1: such a Jewish movie in addition to being such a
22:26
Speaker 1: game movie. It really in addition to being an extremely
22:29
Speaker 1: you know, burnette movie, which has to be said again,
22:32
Speaker 1: and the British movie. And even though Rachel mccadam's British
22:37
Speaker 1: accent is not great because there I guess I wasn't
22:42
Speaker 1: focused on it. Did any of y'all Did either of
22:45
Speaker 1: you read the book, the Disobedience book that it's based on,
22:49
Speaker 1: so I was apparently they changed it a lot, and
22:53
Speaker 1: I mean not surprising, but like the ending of the
22:57
Speaker 1: book is like pretty sad not to jump right to
22:59
Speaker 1: the ending, but like they she basically decides to stay
23:04
Speaker 1: in the community, and it's like she's like, I'm happier here,
23:07
Speaker 1: this is my life, and you know, so be it.
23:11
Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately that's probably a more realisticalistic and um
23:17
Speaker 1: because I I can't imagine what it's like to be
23:21
Speaker 1: in that sort of like fundamentalist environment and break away
23:24
Speaker 1: from it like obviously, like we see a person who's
23:28
Speaker 1: done that in in Rachel Vice's character, um, and it
23:34
Speaker 1: kind of seems like she escaped the absolute moment she could.
23:38
Speaker 1: But I imagine like once you have lived like the
23:42
Speaker 1: majority of your life and like not only your adolescents,
23:44
Speaker 1: but like your adult life in a community like that,
23:47
Speaker 1: it must be almost impossible to leave. It did make
23:50
Speaker 1: me think of, um, my unorthors wait for Netflix reality
23:57
Speaker 1: show for the Virgin's Jail. Can you break it down
24:00
Speaker 1: that my unorthodox life? Oh my god, ken I I'm
24:03
Speaker 1: like so. Julia Hart is a c e O who
24:09
Speaker 1: got out of the Orthodox community and is now like
24:13
Speaker 1: living in New York with in like a very like
24:16
Speaker 1: bougie life, and her kids are kind of like some
24:19
Speaker 1: of that. In the first season, some of them were
24:22
Speaker 1: like out and like happy and like you know, to
24:24
Speaker 1: be out and whatever. Some were like out but still
24:27
Speaker 1: kind of like conservative. And one of her youngest child
24:31
Speaker 1: is like still actually in the community living with her
24:34
Speaker 1: X and like, uh kind of kind of like can't
24:36
Speaker 1: get him out, like he is really starting to believe
24:39
Speaker 1: in all of it, and like the same kind of
24:40
Speaker 1: stuff we were just talking about. But one of the daughters.
24:43
Speaker 1: Miriam is like an out bisexual, horny queen. Um we do, yeah,
24:51
Speaker 1: we have you Rose. Have you started watching the second season?
24:54
Speaker 1: I have not, and I know that a lot has
24:57
Speaker 1: transpired because wasn't there like a whole scandal with her husband. Yes,
25:04
Speaker 1: well I've only watched the first episode, so I haven't
25:08
Speaker 1: really like gotten into it, but I know that, um,
25:11
Speaker 1: you know, like bought Cheva, the other daughter, she's like
25:14
Speaker 1: fully like she's gone full influencer. Her and her husband,
25:17
Speaker 1: who was like a little bit more conservative, like have
25:20
Speaker 1: broken up and she is just like out there living
25:23
Speaker 1: her like Bravo girl life. Well she got the taste
25:25
Speaker 1: of fame. So that makes a lot of sense. It
25:29
Speaker 1: also makes sense, you know, not to get to like serious,
25:33
Speaker 1: but it does, you know, makes sense that of all
25:36
Speaker 1: of Julia's children, the one who is still like deeply
25:39
Speaker 1: invested in the community is the boy. Because like it's
25:43
Speaker 1: a culture that you know, um, women as lesser and
25:49
Speaker 1: like literally like separates and segregates them. Yeah, the men's
25:52
Speaker 1: day winning. Yes, as you know, as we see in Disobedience, like, um,
25:58
Speaker 1: when they go to school, Um, you know, the men
26:01
Speaker 1: and the women are kept separately. The women sit in
26:04
Speaker 1: a different part of the synagogue. You know, women have
26:07
Speaker 1: to wear wigs all the time and like be like
26:10
Speaker 1: totally bundled up and like can only show their bodies
26:13
Speaker 1: to their husbands and are like literally just there to
26:16
Speaker 1: like roll their little like wheeled backpacks around and they three,
26:22
Speaker 1: they're a little wheeled back. I think one of my
26:38
Speaker 1: favorite moments in this movie, and I think the best
26:41
Speaker 1: line is when Rachel Vice asked Rachel McAdams, do you
26:46
Speaker 1: still only fancy women? And she gives for that sort
26:49
Speaker 1: of like look like and because like looks from like
26:53
Speaker 1: underhrise and like yes, and it's very It's it's very
26:57
Speaker 1: like thor thor going do you want to form a yes?
27:03
Speaker 1: It is? Yeah. I love it. I honestly like watching
27:08
Speaker 1: it made me want to read the book a little
27:10
Speaker 1: more because apparently it's the book. The story is like
27:13
Speaker 1: really autobiographical, like the author like went through this thing
27:17
Speaker 1: and is Rachel weis Um And each chapter has like
27:21
Speaker 1: a kind of like opening like kind of teaching or
27:24
Speaker 1: like scripture specifically from Um you know, Judaism and like
27:29
Speaker 1: or like from the Orthodox Church and and the way
27:32
Speaker 1: that they created like alignments about like love was like
27:36
Speaker 1: part of like how the story came together. But like
27:39
Speaker 1: I I personally just think that like whenever I watched
27:42
Speaker 1: things like this where um kind of cultish or like
27:46
Speaker 1: weird religion, weird like religious like forces are the thing
27:50
Speaker 1: you're up against. Like I honestly always get really invested
27:54
Speaker 1: in the world, Like did you ever this is like
27:56
Speaker 1: a stupid reference. Did you guys ever read the Poison?
27:58
Speaker 1: Would Bible the barbecan rose? You would love that? But
28:04
Speaker 1: that one's more about like Baptist like missionary culture and
28:07
Speaker 1: stuff like that, but like weird culti religious like kind
28:11
Speaker 1: of things that like service backdrops for stories like this,
28:14
Speaker 1: And I'm like always like immediately hooked. It is fascinating.
28:19
Speaker 1: But I also just like I can't conceptualize of believing
28:25
Speaker 1: in God like that. But I also that, Yeah, but
28:31
Speaker 1: I also know that for a lot of people, like
28:34
Speaker 1: even if they tell themselves, even if even if they
28:37
Speaker 1: tell themselves, that's what it's about. Like it's not necessarily
28:40
Speaker 1: really about that. It's like about community, it's about structure,
28:44
Speaker 1: it's about tradition. I mean even like even as a
28:47
Speaker 1: very reformed Jewish person, like my Judaism is so much
28:50
Speaker 1: more like cultural than it is religious. And I think
28:54
Speaker 1: for most people in my family, um, And like I
28:59
Speaker 1: get that there is a comfort in that and in
29:01
Speaker 1: safety and that. And you see a lot of these
29:03
Speaker 1: socidic communities like they're so insular. You know, you have
29:08
Speaker 1: a similar experience of Judaism, I really do. I mean,
29:12
Speaker 1: like I when I was younger, like when I was
29:15
Speaker 1: like a kid, my grandparents definitely were like more invested
29:20
Speaker 1: than my parents were, and they didn't really like care
29:23
Speaker 1: or like push us to like you know whatever. But
29:26
Speaker 1: like we when my grandparents were like super around, we
29:29
Speaker 1: went to Temple a lot. And I did like resent
29:32
Speaker 1: it a lot, even from a young age, because there
29:35
Speaker 1: was like just like the stuff, you know, like of
29:38
Speaker 1: like my grandma being like you have to wear a
29:40
Speaker 1: dress and like tights and like the pretty shoes and
29:43
Speaker 1: like I just like there was just like some like
29:46
Speaker 1: gender stuff going for me, like at a very early
29:48
Speaker 1: age where I was like I don't like this, and
29:50
Speaker 1: I associated all of that with Temple, you know, because
29:54
Speaker 1: it was like I only had to dress up like
29:56
Speaker 1: that when I went to Temple and I hated it. Um.
29:58
Speaker 1: And I think that like I was never bought mitzvohed Um,
30:02
Speaker 1: like I really came to like resent it. I also
30:05
Speaker 1: was raised in like a really um Catholic high school,
30:09
Speaker 1: like not like a Catholic school, but like everyone in
30:12
Speaker 1: the school was Catholic or Christian. They were like I think,
30:15
Speaker 1: like ten Jews in the school. And so I think
30:18
Speaker 1: that like it made me always feel there's something about
30:21
Speaker 1: Judaism that like in numerous ways made me feel isolated,
30:25
Speaker 1: and none of it was actually Judaism's fault necessarily, um,
30:30
Speaker 1: and I think that I like very much, uh you know,
30:33
Speaker 1: trying to like leave it behind and only in the
30:36
Speaker 1: last you know, i'd say, like five years, I feel
30:39
Speaker 1: like I have like found a new like adult appreciation
30:43
Speaker 1: for like cultural Judaism, and like I feel really like
30:47
Speaker 1: strongly connected to other people who have had like similar
30:51
Speaker 1: upbringings and are like from like you know, Jewish Brooklyn,
30:55
Speaker 1: like anything that like feels like what it felt like
30:57
Speaker 1: when I was a kid. I'm now kind of like
31:00
Speaker 1: picking and choosing the stuff that does feel good, you know,
31:03
Speaker 1: and like I totally get what you mean about, like
31:07
Speaker 1: especially about like the way that being Jewish like in
31:11
Speaker 1: a predominantly Christian country, which is the one we live
31:15
Speaker 1: in like is isolating, and so it does make me
31:18
Speaker 1: understand why there are communities that like are so insular,
31:22
Speaker 1: because they're like it's like almost a reaction to that.
31:27
Speaker 1: UM And I also have kind of had the same
31:30
Speaker 1: experience where like, I like I grew up I mean
31:34
Speaker 1: pretty like we didn't go to temple that often, but
31:38
Speaker 1: like I did go to Hebrew School. My mom worked
31:40
Speaker 1: at the at the temple I went to when I
31:42
Speaker 1: was little. For a little bit, I did have a
31:44
Speaker 1: bar mitzvah. The theme was Broadway obviously. UM. And when
31:50
Speaker 1: I got older, you know, I like totally rejected it.
31:53
Speaker 1: I like I have not been in its inside a
31:55
Speaker 1: temple in a long time. I think probably since my
31:59
Speaker 1: brother's wedding. I don't like I don't have a minora.
32:01
Speaker 1: I didn't like the candles last night for Hankka. But
32:05
Speaker 1: I like I do find comfort in, you know, the
32:11
Speaker 1: rituals of it all, Like I do. I do still
32:14
Speaker 1: like you know, like eating a lot because during Hanukkah,
32:17
Speaker 1: or like getting like getting holla during Russia Shanna and
32:20
Speaker 1: dipping it in honey. I can't do apples, sim allergic
32:23
Speaker 1: to them. Um. I like being around the people I
32:27
Speaker 1: love during the Jewish holidays. I do like the you know,
32:30
Speaker 1: like the Passover story and like doing some kind of
32:33
Speaker 1: like makeshift meal or in place of a satyr um.
32:38
Speaker 1: And you're totally right. It's like there is a lot
32:40
Speaker 1: of comfort in people who have had the same kind
32:44
Speaker 1: of um like cultural experiences as you and I do
32:48
Speaker 1: like feel some sort of kinship, especially with queer Jewish people,
32:53
Speaker 1: as long as they're not like taking it a little
32:56
Speaker 1: too seriously. Yeah, totally. And yeah, I would say like
33:00
Speaker 1: if there's one thing that I would like to like
33:02
Speaker 1: take from Judaism or culture, like cultural Judaism and like
33:07
Speaker 1: you know, own it in my own life is like
33:09
Speaker 1: the gathering with a meal, you know what I mean,
33:13
Speaker 1: Like even if it's like in every Sunday you know,
33:16
Speaker 1: bagels and locks like whatever, Like, well, Judaism is about food.
33:20
Speaker 1: Like let's be clear, period, Judaism is about Judaism is
33:23
Speaker 1: about sharing food eating and it's like and it's fun
33:28
Speaker 1: and this is crazy feels good to like gather with
33:32
Speaker 1: a bunch of people and cook. It's crazy people have
33:34
Speaker 1: been doing this forever and it still feels good. Um
33:36
Speaker 1: And like yeah, I've like you know, other like queer
33:39
Speaker 1: Jewish friends. Like we've even gotten together and like done
33:43
Speaker 1: that where it's like you know, pass over a russiashana
33:45
Speaker 1: and just like made a lot goods in like in
33:48
Speaker 1: an air fryer or like just you know kind of
33:50
Speaker 1: like created our own little rituals and like that stuff
33:53
Speaker 1: feels good to me. Um. And also though it's such
33:58
Speaker 1: an annoying process because it's so much fucking preparation. I
34:01
Speaker 1: ate them last night. Are you jealous? I'm so jealous.
34:04
Speaker 1: I do have a package of frozen Trader Joe's Law
34:07
Speaker 1: because in my freezer that I would help me to
34:09
Speaker 1: those kind of go off. They do off have an
34:12
Speaker 1: air frier, so I'm gonna just pop them in there,
34:14
Speaker 1: have them with some apple sauce and sour cream, and um,
34:18
Speaker 1: live my life. It really is, to the to your point, Jill,
34:22
Speaker 1: like a kind of like queer like generational thing that
34:25
Speaker 1: happens with people that like used to be religious or
34:28
Speaker 1: had religious families, because like we have these like deep
34:31
Speaker 1: and stated like aversions to whatever it is. The thing
34:35
Speaker 1: is because of like skirts and tights like you said,
34:37
Speaker 1: are like me, it's like these these like you know,
34:40
Speaker 1: disgusting like air apostle, like you know, short sleeve polos
34:43
Speaker 1: or like button downs that I like hated, like like
34:46
Speaker 1: khakis that I got from coals that are like I
34:48
Speaker 1: hate and like they look horrible or whatever, um or
34:51
Speaker 1: the other things that are because like also like just
34:54
Speaker 1: church is boring, Like let's let's say that it's not
34:57
Speaker 1: churches boring objectively, and when you are eight, it's even
35:01
Speaker 1: more boring and like borderline impossible to pay attention to.
35:05
Speaker 1: So why are children subjected to this thing? Um? Anyway,
35:08
Speaker 1: I used to sneak I used to sneak a book
35:10
Speaker 1: in and put it in my um in my prayer
35:15
Speaker 1: book to to read, like so I could pretend and
35:19
Speaker 1: then I would just like stand up when we had
35:20
Speaker 1: to stand up. It was like secretly sitting there like
35:23
Speaker 1: reading Harry Potter or whatever. Literally same I would get
35:27
Speaker 1: in trouble though, like I would read like Garfield comics
35:29
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Yeah, but I but my point
35:32
Speaker 1: is is like I feel like, you know, we have
35:35
Speaker 1: this like childhood that's like dripping with religion or like
35:38
Speaker 1: you know, we have these divergence to religion and then
35:41
Speaker 1: when we have our own autonomy, were like this fucking
35:44
Speaker 1: sucks like fuck you religion, you never and then like
35:48
Speaker 1: four or five years later we're like, oh, like I
35:51
Speaker 1: still need to make a meaning of the world, and
35:53
Speaker 1: and like want like community and like maybe a little
35:56
Speaker 1: spirituality to maybe a little you know, mysticism or something.
35:59
Speaker 1: And and we kind of like seek back, which is
36:01
Speaker 1: why like astrology is popular now and like things like
36:05
Speaker 1: that where it's like we feel or rather what I've
36:07
Speaker 1: said this before, like I'm feeling like the God shaped
36:10
Speaker 1: hole in my life with like thinks like you know,
36:12
Speaker 1: just the leftover parts of the religion or traditions that
36:15
Speaker 1: I like actually like, well, there's a difference between religion
36:19
Speaker 1: and spirituality, and I think so many of us like
36:22
Speaker 1: like the spirituality part of it. Like I even as
36:26
Speaker 1: a kid, like I was interested in the sort of
36:30
Speaker 1: mysticism of Judaism, and I found a lot of the
36:32
Speaker 1: ritual beautiful. Um yeah, like Elijah like um, you know,
36:40
Speaker 1: like the the stories of in the you know, in
36:44
Speaker 1: the Torah or whatever, and um. But yeah, yeah, I
36:48
Speaker 1: think there is like the God shaped hole, like we
36:51
Speaker 1: have found things to fill it with, whether they're you know,
36:55
Speaker 1: astrology or partying or Rachel visus spit. Can we talk
37:02
Speaker 1: about the spit. We actually am not sure if I've
37:06
Speaker 1: ever seen you know, spit on. I can't recall like
37:12
Speaker 1: a kind of spit like moment in any other movie.
37:16
Speaker 1: I didn't realize rewatching it that it doesn't only happen once,
37:18
Speaker 1: it's multiple times. It's a it's like lengthy sequence and
37:23
Speaker 1: a lengthy kind of and it's spit. It's yeah, and
37:26
Speaker 1: it's like it's like a dribble to you know, like
37:28
Speaker 1: it's like it's kind of like l it's not like
37:30
Speaker 1: a like hot kind of like like aggressive like hawk like,
37:35
Speaker 1: it's like it's very it's very sexual. It's really it's
37:41
Speaker 1: like you have to really like spit to get into
37:45
Speaker 1: a like a slow dribble into and like she really
37:49
Speaker 1: like drinks it up. But it's well, I think it's
37:51
Speaker 1: I think it's purposely supposed to feel religious, like it's
37:56
Speaker 1: supposed to look it's supposed to stand in for kind
38:00
Speaker 1: of religious sacrament. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's it's like baptized
38:06
Speaker 1: with rachel issis spit. I mean, it's a baptism that's
38:10
Speaker 1: that's Christian. But it's like, you know, it's like drinking
38:14
Speaker 1: the wine you know on shop bet or some or something. Um,
38:20
Speaker 1: would you let Rachel Vice spit in your mouth? Yes,
38:26
Speaker 1: I'm not even like a spit girl actually, to be honest,
38:29
Speaker 1: but if it was Rachel, I have, like I have
38:34
Speaker 1: like a thing with like um specifically like mouth and noises,
38:38
Speaker 1: like like people chewing like really like like Fox with
38:41
Speaker 1: me um. So I'm not Phoebe producer as well. She
38:46
Speaker 1: I mean she threatened us at the beginning. She threatened
38:47
Speaker 1: me at the beginning of this episode. Yeah, no, I
38:51
Speaker 1: like there's some like mouth stuff that I'm like not
38:54
Speaker 1: fully on board. Like I think that like certain spitting
38:58
Speaker 1: scenarios can be hot that specific one of the slowness
39:03
Speaker 1: of it and like the fact that you can see
39:05
Speaker 1: that like it's really the exchange of the juices that
39:08
Speaker 1: it feels good for them and like that that doesn't
39:13
Speaker 1: resonate for me. And let me tell you that spit
39:16
Speaker 1: dribble is going in so slow it's cold by the
39:18
Speaker 1: time your mouth it's cold. Yeah, I would prefer like
39:24
Speaker 1: a fast spit, but I'm not, Like, I'm not a
39:26
Speaker 1: spit girl, like we Rose and I have talked about
39:28
Speaker 1: this on the pod before, but like I I definitely
39:31
Speaker 1: someone who I'm never the spitter. I'm always getting spat
39:34
Speaker 1: on and I don't know how spitters find me, but
39:37
Speaker 1: they do. And I'm like, Okay, yes, spit on me
39:40
Speaker 1: whatever way you want. But like then we get to
39:42
Speaker 1: do the things that I want to do. But like
39:44
Speaker 1: it does it is interesting that you know, the man
39:47
Speaker 1: who directed this, I don't know, Like I don't even
39:50
Speaker 1: care about like looking into him or like what his
39:52
Speaker 1: intentions were as a director. But like, but like if
39:55
Speaker 1: you're gonna fabricate this spit thing, which I wonder if
39:58
Speaker 1: it's in the book, probably not, you know, there's a
40:02
Speaker 1: kind of humiliation kink thing going on or like he
40:06
Speaker 1: was trying to figure he was trying to just as
40:09
Speaker 1: you were saying, like metaphorize this spit thing to be like,
40:12
Speaker 1: oh this is like about her as a person or something.
40:15
Speaker 1: It was just I don't think it. I don't see
40:17
Speaker 1: it as humiliating, like like it's I think it's like
40:21
Speaker 1: a gift that she's giving her right. No, I mean,
40:24
Speaker 1: I I'm not trying to say like like humiliation core kink,
40:29
Speaker 1: but like spit in kink or in sexuality has the
40:34
Speaker 1: association of degradation. And I was like wondering if that,
40:38
Speaker 1: I think. I think it depends on your kink, because
40:42
Speaker 1: like I am someone who, like I do engage and
40:46
Speaker 1: spit play a little, and I would say most of
40:51
Speaker 1: the time the person being spout on or in is
40:53
Speaker 1: like begging for it, and it's really it really is
40:57
Speaker 1: like a gift you are giving them. And I think
41:00
Speaker 1: that is at least when I watched the film, That's
41:03
Speaker 1: how I read it is that Rachel McAdams is so
41:06
Speaker 1: obsessed with Rachel Vice that she wants literally any part
41:10
Speaker 1: of her she can get. She she wants to take
41:13
Speaker 1: her inside her body in one of she can. Yeah,
41:18
Speaker 1: I know, I agree. I agree. I think that like,
41:21
Speaker 1: like friend, I see what you're saying about the humiliation stuff,
41:24
Speaker 1: but I think that like it's like a there is
41:27
Speaker 1: like a vulnerability, like an exchange of vulnerability. I think
41:30
Speaker 1: Rachel mcadam's character is like at her most vulnerable there
41:34
Speaker 1: and I think that it could go that route. But
41:37
Speaker 1: I do think that like, yeah, it's like a gift.
41:39
Speaker 1: That's like Rachel Vice is like giving her this like
41:43
Speaker 1: tender dribble into her mouth. Yeah your um, yeah, Like
41:53
Speaker 1: it's like it's I think it's like Rachel Vice's character
41:57
Speaker 1: knows how like intense and vul holnerable that moment is
42:01
Speaker 1: for her partner, and so I think it wouldn't make
42:04
Speaker 1: sense if it was like really a hawk. You know,
42:08
Speaker 1: it really makes sense for were We should talk for
42:11
Speaker 1: forty more minutes about this analyze. Absolutely, You're so right
42:16
Speaker 1: about the vulnerability though, because like so much of what
42:19
Speaker 1: Rachel McAdams has to do in this movie is, you know,
42:23
Speaker 1: she to be with Rachel Weiss, she has to like
42:26
Speaker 1: lose all of this armor she has um armed herself
42:31
Speaker 1: with UM to like move about in the world, like
42:34
Speaker 1: you know, like the clothing, like the wig. I mean
42:36
Speaker 1: when she takes the wig, Like every time she takes
42:39
Speaker 1: the wig off of this movie is a gay And
42:41
Speaker 1: somehow her hair still looks amazing underneath it. I don't
42:44
Speaker 1: know how how she does it. It's that little like
42:48
Speaker 1: short Bob, I don't know, it stays intact. It looks great. Yeah,
42:53
Speaker 1: I mean, she's so vulnerable in this movie, and you know,
42:55
Speaker 1: by the end of it. And I also love how
42:59
Speaker 1: the dynamic between the three of them because we're meant
43:01
Speaker 1: to understand that Um, Rachel, Rachel and the guy UM
43:06
Speaker 1: were very close friends growing up and I like that
43:11
Speaker 1: at that as the movie ends, and you know, he
43:14
Speaker 1: realizes that they have like restarted their love affair and
43:17
Speaker 1: that Rachel McAdams is pregnant. There's not like what I
43:22
Speaker 1: guess we would expect in a movie like this of
43:24
Speaker 1: some huge like blow up scene where you know, he
43:28
Speaker 1: screams and like there's all this like shame being bandied around.
43:32
Speaker 1: It all happens like very matter of fact Lee, and
43:36
Speaker 1: it even ends with him, you know, like giving Rachel
43:40
Speaker 1: McAdams his blessing to be free, like in front of
43:44
Speaker 1: their entire congregation. And I really like that those characters
43:50
Speaker 1: feel so lived in and really seemed like they understand
43:55
Speaker 1: each other. Just a really well made movie that dynamic
44:00
Speaker 1: of like the trio is so good and doesn't happen
44:05
Speaker 1: a lot. I mean, I think like in real life
44:07
Speaker 1: or in movies like where you get to see basically
44:11
Speaker 1: the man who feels affronted by the lesbianism um like
44:16
Speaker 1: like sucking hard, but you can see that he has
44:20
Speaker 1: the capacity to become violently angry about it and then
44:22
Speaker 1: kind of like takes it in processes and gives his
44:26
Speaker 1: blessing and like it's yeah, it's it's the best case scenario,
44:28
Speaker 1: I think for a setting like this, because he's also
44:32
Speaker 1: always known because we like find out through the course
44:35
Speaker 1: of the movie that they were in love when they
44:38
Speaker 1: were teenagers, and even we're walked in on by Ronite's father,
44:43
Speaker 1: the Rabbi, which I mean that how many times has
45:04
Speaker 1: rachelis played a lesbian like multiple? Two? Only two? I
45:10
Speaker 1: think only two, only two? And I did when I
45:14
Speaker 1: interviewed her for The Favorite, I asked her kiss her,
45:18
Speaker 1: asked her who is a better kisser, Rachel mcadam's or
45:21
Speaker 1: Olivia Coleman, And she said she couldn't pick one. How
45:25
Speaker 1: could she? It's gotta be Olivia Coleman totally, It's got
45:32
Speaker 1: to be. I mean a blessing to participate in either couple.
45:37
Speaker 1: But wow, I mean the Favorite. I mean, we could
45:41
Speaker 1: do it a whole other episode on the Favorite, but like, wow,
45:43
Speaker 1: we could and probably will at some point. Um. I
45:45
Speaker 1: also loved the use of music in this movie with
45:48
Speaker 1: the Cure. Um. I loved like that was kind of
45:52
Speaker 1: the way that they like almost broke the tension between
45:56
Speaker 1: them when they were in Rene's father house by listening
45:59
Speaker 1: to The Cure and then it played again over the
46:02
Speaker 1: credits at the end, it was such a like lovely
46:04
Speaker 1: little touch. I love it. It's like the muscle memory
46:09
Speaker 1: they like they play the song that they clearly listened
46:12
Speaker 1: to together and then when they fucked, when now we
46:15
Speaker 1: have to fuck, Like but it's also such like a
46:17
Speaker 1: it's not even like a let's fuck. It's like a
46:20
Speaker 1: like such a tender reminder. How many times can I
46:24
Speaker 1: describe their relationship as tender? On this episode? I want
46:28
Speaker 1: about tenderness and also about coldness. Like it's a very
46:32
Speaker 1: bleak film and it's color palette in, you know, the
46:37
Speaker 1: kind of sparseness of the language, but then it makes
46:41
Speaker 1: that's what makes those moments where it becomes extremely like
46:45
Speaker 1: passionate and tender even more startling. Yeah, and the war exactly. Yeah. Yeah,
46:53
Speaker 1: Like the tenderness is like so much like the tenderness
46:56
Speaker 1: is the thing you focus on because both of these
46:59
Speaker 1: characters are like dead inside before they're reunited. Like Rachel
47:02
Speaker 1: Weiss has like back in her New York life, Like
47:05
Speaker 1: there's this montage that like shows that like she is
47:08
Speaker 1: not feeling or doing amazing or she's just kind of
47:11
Speaker 1: floating through life. And obviously Rachel mcadam's character is like
47:14
Speaker 1: not doing great either, and they both kind of like
47:17
Speaker 1: reinvigorate each other. And that is what like love feels like.
47:20
Speaker 1: You know, like I think a lot of the time
47:22
Speaker 1: when you're it just feels like a like a reunion
47:26
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my god, are all of my
47:28
Speaker 1: woes and sorrows like gone? And they're not. They're just
47:30
Speaker 1: like I don't know, it seems like she has a
47:33
Speaker 1: pretty nice life. She's like photographing like old tattooed men
47:37
Speaker 1: and hooking up with guys and bars. Yeah, I mean
47:41
Speaker 1: I thought that the sequence where she's like hooking up
47:43
Speaker 1: with the guys and bars was supposed to be I
47:45
Speaker 1: thought that that because it showed like her hooking up
47:47
Speaker 1: with guys and then like doing like boring work or something.
47:51
Speaker 1: It was like this montage to me that was like
47:52
Speaker 1: trying to paint like the monotony of her life or
47:56
Speaker 1: like or like the fact that she was floating through it.
47:58
Speaker 1: But maybe I was reading too hard into that. Well,
48:01
Speaker 1: that's also that also comes after she finds out her
48:03
Speaker 1: father's dead, and I think that it's supposed to like
48:06
Speaker 1: show that she's trying to go emotions of her life
48:09
Speaker 1: as if her father dying hasn't impacted her, right, it
48:14
Speaker 1: really has right, right? Right? Right? Right? Yeah? Yeah, I
48:17
Speaker 1: think like the the I think it's supposed to show
48:21
Speaker 1: that she has like a big life back in back
48:24
Speaker 1: in the big city. Um. But yeah, I think like
48:27
Speaker 1: the hooking up with a guy in the bar is
48:28
Speaker 1: kind of like a dark scene where she's like spiraling. Um.
48:33
Speaker 1: And but I don't know, it's I guess it's hard
48:36
Speaker 1: to say because we we really don't see that much
48:38
Speaker 1: of her life before we go um to England. Um.
48:43
Speaker 1: If her photographs are good, yeah, we never get to
48:47
Speaker 1: see the book, the photography book. Do you think she's
48:50
Speaker 1: big on Instagram? No? I think she's like an art
48:53
Speaker 1: bitch and like pretentious and like won't touch social media. Yeah.
48:59
Speaker 1: So what do you think if you had to write
49:01
Speaker 1: like the sequel or like the fan fiction, like what
49:04
Speaker 1: do you think happens after the end of the movie
49:06
Speaker 1: Disobedience to Here we Go Again? It also features share
49:12
Speaker 1: yeah as as her mom. Of course what happens? I
49:19
Speaker 1: think Disobedience to follows Unfortunately, don't think Rachel vices in it.
49:23
Speaker 1: I think it's like Rachel McAdams, Um, she moves to
49:27
Speaker 1: California and it starts like her own journey and meets
49:33
Speaker 1: that porter and no, I don't know, I think, but
49:38
Speaker 1: I think that it would be like her story, you know, yeah,
49:43
Speaker 1: because I don't. I do think that, like what we're
49:46
Speaker 1: meant to understand by the end of the film is
49:48
Speaker 1: that Rachel McAdams has to figure out her next step herself.
49:52
Speaker 1: And like even though Rachel offers offers like that she
49:56
Speaker 1: can come live with her, like that's not it's not
49:59
Speaker 1: really escaping anything, and she has to like follow her
50:03
Speaker 1: own path. I think she becomes like a mom in
50:07
Speaker 1: a mom fluencer um and she makes a TikTok that's
50:11
Speaker 1: all about how she like escaped you know, fundamentalism and
50:16
Speaker 1: like totally monetizes the experience evidently in California, which is
50:21
Speaker 1: going to be really hard for her to navigate, you know,
50:23
Speaker 1: the insular Hollywood lesbian scene in l A. I think
50:27
Speaker 1: that she would have a hard time here. Yeah, I
50:29
Speaker 1: think that it would be really hard to go from
50:31
Speaker 1: her life there and and Rachel vice and come here
50:35
Speaker 1: and go to like the abbey or chapel on like
50:39
Speaker 1: Wednesday night. Feel like that's what I'm that Like, Okay,
50:47
Speaker 1: like this is what I left my home and family
50:49
Speaker 1: for a lot of backwards hats, like a lot of Yeah,
50:53
Speaker 1: maybe she would, maybe she would catch the eye of
50:55
Speaker 1: like you know, a Christian Stewart type and then not
51:00
Speaker 1: at the abbey ab but you know, she like she
51:03
Speaker 1: meets someone and like gets invited to some sort of
51:06
Speaker 1: like you know, fancy party in the hills and then
51:09
Speaker 1: meets a lesbian and becomes part of a you know,
51:14
Speaker 1: a lesbian power couple. Yeah. I want her to have
51:17
Speaker 1: like a like Princess Diaries kind of sequel where she
51:21
Speaker 1: like a Cinderella story, you know, where she finds the
51:24
Speaker 1: queen of the lesbians and is like, you know, gets
51:28
Speaker 1: this like great, exactly, Yeah, okay, make over makeupver Montage,
51:33
Speaker 1: make over Montage at you know, the Army Surplus store,
51:37
Speaker 1: at the at the at the dog Martin store or
51:40
Speaker 1: maybe Okay. So she meets Olivia Coleman, who's like a lesbian,
51:44
Speaker 1: like you know, like the most powerful lesbian, and turns
51:47
Speaker 1: out Coleman is like escaped Mormonism, so she's also an
51:50
Speaker 1: ex fundamentalist and they bond over that. And she used
51:54
Speaker 1: to be on Real Housewives with Salt Lake City. Oh,
52:00
Speaker 1: Merrit and she is Merideth playing who I've always thought
52:05
Speaker 1: is Meredith Mars. There's one of them that looks a
52:08
Speaker 1: lot like Rachel Weiss in a weird way. I think
52:10
Speaker 1: it's Meredith. It is Meredith yet, yeah, so that makes sense.
52:13
Speaker 1: She leaves, oh my god, with another Rachel Vice type,
52:19
Speaker 1: but an older Rachel Weiss type. It's the beginning of
52:23
Speaker 1: the movie is Rachel mcadam's hooking up with like like
52:26
Speaker 1: many people in a row, and they all have like
52:29
Speaker 1: shoulder length brown hair. Yeah, it's still a brunette story.
52:33
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Rachel Rachel Viss's hair in this movie,
52:36
Speaker 1: I mean in every movie, obviously Magnet, especially in this film.
52:40
Speaker 1: It's just this incredible mane of touseled dark locks, and
52:45
Speaker 1: she's never wearing a hat, even though it looks really
52:48
Speaker 1: fucking cold outside. She refuses. I think the darkest moment
52:53
Speaker 1: of the movie is when she puts on the wig,
52:55
Speaker 1: because it's like no, no, no no, no, we need the hair,
52:57
Speaker 1: like please, oh my god, forgot him her putting on
53:00
Speaker 1: the wig. It's so funny. And then she gets recognized
53:05
Speaker 1: by by Rachel McAdams right or and then she takes
53:12
Speaker 1: it off. Have you ever worn one of those wigs,
53:14
Speaker 1: because I have you have I have yet? Can you
53:17
Speaker 1: tell us the story like how it was for it
53:20
Speaker 1: was for um bush Wig. One year I did a
53:24
Speaker 1: performance in which I was playing a Hosidic woman. You
53:28
Speaker 1: did performance from and from and from Yes, from which
53:32
Speaker 1: is from which is a term. I don't think I
53:35
Speaker 1: knew either before Disobedience, but I guess it's like, you know,
53:40
Speaker 1: being being as like hassidically female as possible, like with
53:46
Speaker 1: the rolling backpack and the wig and the like the
53:50
Speaker 1: like MAXI skirt. Yeah, I UM was watching this movie
53:55
Speaker 1: and thinking a lot about like you know, hometown loves
53:58
Speaker 1: or like rekindling childhood flames or whatever, and I'm wondering,
54:03
Speaker 1: like do y'all have like you know like I was.
54:05
Speaker 1: I was like thinking of Shiva Baby when I was
54:07
Speaker 1: watching this, and like movies like that, we're like where
54:11
Speaker 1: you have an old flame, another great queer Jewish fellow.
54:14
Speaker 1: I wish. I mean, I feel like I've said this
54:18
Speaker 1: so many times in my life that I I was
54:22
Speaker 1: like the kind of queer person who was so repressed
54:25
Speaker 1: that I like really didn't even like admit it to
54:28
Speaker 1: myself or no, until my early twenties and then like
54:32
Speaker 1: didn't kiss a girl until I was twenty three. Um,
54:37
Speaker 1: and I whenever I watched like this is fucked up.
54:41
Speaker 1: I know this is fucked up to say, but like
54:43
Speaker 1: when I watched like these repression stories about like a
54:45
Speaker 1: hometown love or whatever, I'm like, I wish I had
54:48
Speaker 1: like a repressed hometown love, which like I which like
54:51
Speaker 1: I kind of when you watch shows about queer teens
54:55
Speaker 1: like falling in love, you're like you, yeah, I was
55:00
Speaker 1: really not doing that. No, Like I really do in
55:03
Speaker 1: a way wish that I knew what it was like
55:05
Speaker 1: to be like sixteen and like in love with a
55:07
Speaker 1: girl and like couldn't tell anyone. But also like knowing
55:11
Speaker 1: the environment I grew up and I think it would
55:12
Speaker 1: have been um really really scary, Like I think my
55:16
Speaker 1: life could have taken a dark turn. Um. Phoebe wants
55:20
Speaker 1: to know if any of us have read Milk Fed
55:22
Speaker 1: by Marissa Broder. I I've seen all of our book talk. Yes,
55:28
Speaker 1: wait what what is it? Yeah? No, this is like
55:31
Speaker 1: also like within the Shiva Baby Disobedience can and like
55:35
Speaker 1: a queer kind of like quirky Jewish love story. Um,
55:39
Speaker 1: it's like I don't. It's I like it, but it's not.
55:43
Speaker 1: It's not my favorite. But um it's like, how do
55:45
Speaker 1: I even explain it. It's like a girl, um who
55:48
Speaker 1: I think works at a talent agency in l a
55:51
Speaker 1: and like because it kind of has a lot of
55:52
Speaker 1: like like food and like body stuff, meets this girl
55:56
Speaker 1: who works in a froyo store. Um who she is?
56:01
Speaker 1: That what it's called a froio store? Um who right? Exactly?
56:06
Speaker 1: Who she like becomes like kind of like sexually obsessed with.
56:10
Speaker 1: And that girl is a has like not not quite
56:15
Speaker 1: like a full Orthodox family, I don't think so, but
56:18
Speaker 1: like like a really like uh definitely like conservative Orthodox
56:24
Speaker 1: leaning family. And she goes in, she the girl, the
56:27
Speaker 1: main girl that goes in, has dinner with them, and
56:29
Speaker 1: like is gets into it about Israel and Palestine, and
56:34
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like I definitely think it's like
56:37
Speaker 1: an interesting worthy read and it's pretty funny, but um, yeah,
56:41
Speaker 1: I honestly, I mean the fact that she works at
56:43
Speaker 1: a fio store is that is that I call that
56:46
Speaker 1: hyper realism. That is truly I feel like I know
56:52
Speaker 1: so many people from childhood that worked at at at
56:54
Speaker 1: fio joints. There was this um, this ice cream store
56:58
Speaker 1: called Oberweise in my hometown that everyone wanted to work for.
57:01
Speaker 1: And I remember going to apply and the manager was like, oh,
57:04
Speaker 1: do you have any qualifications? I was like no, this
57:05
Speaker 1: being my first job, and he's like okay, and he
57:07
Speaker 1: like pulls out that like stack of like a hundred
57:10
Speaker 1: applications from like other fourteen year olds to prioritize over mine.
57:16
Speaker 1: He got your ass, Yeah, he really did. He was like,
57:19
Speaker 1: good luck, um, But yeah, I I honestly so I
57:24
Speaker 1: fell in love with when I was like around seventeen
57:26
Speaker 1: or so with my first boyfriend in a very suburban,
57:29
Speaker 1: you know, part of Chicago, And I honestly would would
57:33
Speaker 1: love to write that story. I think that likes there's
57:35
Speaker 1: something about I know that everyone's doing like everyone does
57:39
Speaker 1: like repressed career love stories. But also on that note,
57:41
Speaker 1: like I would watch Mormon disobedience like that needs to
57:46
Speaker 1: be a thing. Well that's almost that. That's that's there's
57:49
Speaker 1: there's like a whole porn category of that, right, But
57:53
Speaker 1: you know, famously not not very narrative driven. I mean,
57:56
Speaker 1: for you it is because you love the narrative of Yeah,
57:58
Speaker 1: that's all I care about Um, you if you went home,
58:04
Speaker 1: do you think you would reunite with your your high
58:08
Speaker 1: school lover? No, he ended up being like a total
58:11
Speaker 1: dirt bag. Um, but never say never, never say never exactly.
58:16
Speaker 1: And I think you can find your way back to
58:17
Speaker 1: each other. And you could spit in him. Yeah, I
58:20
Speaker 1: could spit in him. Um we did meet at boy
58:23
Speaker 1: Scout camp, another another fundamentalist organization. Yeah, yeah, it's all
58:33
Speaker 1: full circle. Absolutely absolutely. I think you should. I would watch,
58:38
Speaker 1: and I think you should write it, and I think
58:39
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like I have maybe a
58:41
Speaker 1: contentious opinion on this because I know that like so
58:43
Speaker 1: many like teens in gen Z and like whatever, not
58:46
Speaker 1: just I mean not just the youths, but you know,
58:49
Speaker 1: say like no more repression stories or stories about coming
58:53
Speaker 1: out and like whatever. And it's like, for I would
58:55
Speaker 1: say most of the queer people that are alive, those
58:58
Speaker 1: stories really still resonate and still define a lot of
59:02
Speaker 1: people's lives. And the you know, like the Disobedience and
59:07
Speaker 1: Carols of the world. Um, they fucking are hitting, you
59:11
Speaker 1: know what I mean, they hit And like I would watch,
59:13
Speaker 1: like I I really like those movies. I find them
59:16
Speaker 1: to be really hot. Unfortunately, like maybe something to break
59:18
Speaker 1: down in my in a therapy session. But also and
59:21
Speaker 1: also very true, like yes, it's that we that there's
59:24
Speaker 1: a whole generation of queer kids who are like finding
59:27
Speaker 1: it easier to come out and like quote unquote live
59:30
Speaker 1: authentically or whatever. But for a lot of a lot
59:34
Speaker 1: of people around the world, Um, they still can't do
59:37
Speaker 1: that safely. And a lot of us you know, grew
59:39
Speaker 1: up with without having that experience. And so I think
59:43
Speaker 1: there is still a lot of power in those stories
59:47
Speaker 1: and they are still really hot. They're hot. We need
59:50
Speaker 1: more hot elder millennial repressed. That's the thing though, is
59:58
Speaker 1: like the thing when when people are no more repression
1:00:01
Speaker 1: stories or whatever, which I've probably said before, like really
1:00:05
Speaker 1: like I've probably said it before, but like that's just
1:00:07
Speaker 1: you know, the experienced poisoning effect of like you know, internet,
1:00:11
Speaker 1: the internet and discourse and like and I feel like, um,
1:00:14
Speaker 1: what we're really saying to your point, Jill, is like,
1:00:16
Speaker 1: can you just tell the stories better? Like because no
1:00:19
Speaker 1: one's complaining about Carol, no one, we would that that
1:00:22
Speaker 1: movie is so perfect. So we're going to write a
1:00:25
Speaker 1: Hanukkah movie about some kind of you know, queer trends repression,
1:00:33
Speaker 1: m Jill. You will direct it, Oh my god, Yes,
1:00:38
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be great. It's gonna win an oscar
1:00:41
Speaker 1: in seven and we're going to It's gonna take us
1:00:46
Speaker 1: some time to develop, and the fourteen year olds are
1:00:48
Speaker 1: going to run us off social media. Yeah. Absolutely, We're
1:00:53
Speaker 1: all going to be dead and can yeah exiled like
1:00:59
Speaker 1: Rachel Weiss slide into our d M s at Like
1:01:07
Speaker 1: a Virgin. Fore tell us if you would let Rachel
1:01:11
Speaker 1: Vice spit in your mouth what your favorite Hanko tradition is. Whatever.
1:01:17
Speaker 1: Next week we'll be back with the best of two
1:01:18
Speaker 1: thousand two episode, going through all of the things we
1:01:21
Speaker 1: loved this year and very few of the things we
1:01:24
Speaker 1: didn't love that I really liked that we did not
1:01:27
Speaker 1: get negative. As always, please like and subscribe, rate us
1:01:33
Speaker 1: on Spotify, leave us reviews on Apple Podcasts. It helps
1:01:36
Speaker 1: us out so much. I'm your co host, Rose Damn You.
1:01:39
Speaker 1: You can find me anywhere online at Rose Damn You,
1:01:42
Speaker 1: and you can find me at France, squishco anywhere you like.
1:01:45
Speaker 1: Like a Virgin is an iHeart Radio production. Our producers
1:01:48
Speaker 1: Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess
1:01:51
Speaker 1: Cranechurch and Nikki Etur Until next week. Hogsama Virgins has
1:01:57
Speaker 1: a tast