Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Digital Health + Health IT / Innovating Healthcare IT: Leadership, Challenges, and Data

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Innovating Healthcare IT: Leadership, Challenges, and Data · Becker’s Healthcare Digital Health + Health IT

• 0:00
  Hello, everyone, and thank you for tuning in
• 0:01
  to the Becker's HealthCare podcast. We are thrilled
• 0:04
  to be joined on-site here at Becker's Health
• 0:06
  IT Digital Health RCM Conference in Chicago with
• 0:09
  Ajay Kapre,
• 0:10
  president and chief strategy officer with Elkay, and
• 0:13
  doctor Safar Chaudhry, senior vice president, chief digital
• 0:17
  officer, and chief AI and information officer with
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  Seattle Children's.
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  Ajay, doctor Chaudhry, thank you so much for
• 0:23
  being here today.
• 0:25
  Thanks for having us, Brian. Thank you for
• 0:26
  having us, Brian. And it's an honor to
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  do it with doctor Chaudhry. Yeah. It's great
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  to have you both here. So so let's
• 0:33
  get into the conversation.
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  Innovation can often feel like a like a
• 0:36
  moving target.
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  What do you think are the core elements
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  that define true innovation in the health care
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  IT space? So far, can we can we
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  start with you? Yeah. So, certainly, the first
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  thing to think about in this space is,
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  are there any regulatory
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  compliance issues that we need to take care
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  of?
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  In addition,
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  there's going to be the cultural aspects
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  for the organization.
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  Change management is always really important when you're
• 1:01
  implementing new technology.
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  And
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  there always has to be executive level sponsorship
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  and championing
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  to make things actually stick. The sustainability is
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  really important when thinking about innovation.
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  So that that change management piece, that that
• 1:18
  executive buy in, I imagine, is is huge.
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  Ajay, what would you add here? You know,
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  I feel like true innovation,
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  it needs to solve real world problems
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  with scalable solutions and not just, you know,
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  talking about any flashy technology or a new
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  technology.
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  There should be real usage of any of
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  the innovation that you're leading towards.
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  Especially in health care, if you look at,
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  we need to simplify and not complicate
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  the processes for both health care providers as
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  well as the patients.
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  And if we focus on patient outcomes, improving
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  clinical workflows,
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  I think providing the real interop
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  solution, I think, you know, we can actually
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  get a big wins there.
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  Yeah. Some real tangible results. Right? Yes. Appreciate
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  that. Doctor Chaudhary, question for you.
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  From your experience, what are
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  the key factors that really either enable and
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  power innovation or hinder innovation in health care?
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  Are there common barriers that organizations out there
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  run into,
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  when they're trying to to integrate new technologies
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  and manage through that change as you mentioned.
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  Well, certainly, the the top of mind would
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  be finances.
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  Right? There's always financial constraints.
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  When you're thinking about innovation, people need to
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  know I agree with Ajay about simplification,
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  but at the same time,
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  can you afford to do it? And And
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  if you do it, is it going to
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  give you some sort of return? So those
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  are definitely constraints. Then you've got
• 2:39
  the culture of your organization.
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  Some organizations are open to innovation. Some are
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  not.
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  I'm sure you've heard the statement that we
• 2:47
  do it our way
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  and everybody's unique.
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  And they're not necessarily
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  unique, but that's what they feel they are.
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  And, of course,
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  there is a difference between generations
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  of culture within an organization that impact
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  the adoption of any level of innovation. So
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  an older physician like myself probably doesn't want
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  to adopt new things, whereas a Gen z
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  physician
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  grew up that way. They were digital to
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  start with and
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  we'll adopt those things. The the other thing
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  is when you're setting this up,
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  you've got to make sure that, as I
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  said before, the highest level of buy in.
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  Mhmm. So if you are the innovation champion,
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  let's say it's me,
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  I would then have to champion that. I'd
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  all have to also do the good communication
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  around it. So communication is also
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  the you know, why are we doing this?
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  Right. I always like to say, what problem
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  are we really trying to solve with the
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  innovation?
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  Or are we just trying to buy another
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  shiny toy? And if we have a shiny
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  toy, is that is that just gonna be
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  the flavor of the month? Right. Or is
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  it gonna be something that truly drives the
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  most important thing, which is patient outcomes?
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  So that's that's what we're gonna focus on.
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  Yeah. And and so far, I would never
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  describe you as an older physician. So I
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  I I appreciate the the humor there, but
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  let's dig dig deeper into sort of the
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  the the the cultural component here and, of
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  course, that that that champion that executive champion.
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  Ajay, can can you talk about sort of
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  what role leadership plays in fostering an innovative
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  culture within health care and and what leaders
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  can do to really sustain that innovation and
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  continue to encourage it? I think to start
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  with and, you know, I agree with Zafar,
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  everything he said. But, you know, to start
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  with,
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  anything you want to actually have innovation, you
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  need to actually set that culture.
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  Culture plays a very important role. And with
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  culture comes collaboration.
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  You need to listen more. You need to
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  hear more, talk more to people. What are
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  the real market problems out there? What can
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  I do to solve those? At the end
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  of the day, we are in healthcare IT.
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  We're here to serve patients
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  and patient care.
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  And if you look at it, you know,
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  it is really
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  80% is people, 15% is process,
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  5% is technology.
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  And if you think that way and if
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  you put culture as your main thing, align
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  with people
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  or even with partners,
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  you know, health system partner with who you
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  are developing
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  a innovative idea,
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  it all comes down to that culture plus
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  collaboration together.
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  I'll also give an example here. You know?
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  And these this line is not from me.
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  This is from Judy Faulkner, which says that,
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  you know,
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  if you wanna go fast,
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  go alone. If you're gonna go far, go
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  together.
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  Go as a team. So the team plays
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  a very important role when it when you're
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  talking about any innovation or you want to
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  bring it,
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  everyone wants to bring an idea very fast
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  to the market, but I feel like one
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  has to vet it properly. What are you
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  trying to solve? Is the market ready for
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  that idea to adopt? Adoption of the idea
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  is much, much more bigger than just going
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  as going as a shiny object just at
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  the start. Right. Right. And that shiny object
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  thing. If you're if you're focusing on the
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  people and the culture, it's gonna prevent the
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  shiny object syndrome. Right? If you're if you're
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  actually thinking about the teams and the people.
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  Yep.
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  Yeah. Appreciate that. So,
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  Zafar, can you can you also just elaborate
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  on how you think about this? So I'm
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  gonna add
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  obviously, I've said before you need an executive
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  sponsor,
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  but whoever that person is, that person has
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  to have a vision.
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  Right? I always tell people that if you
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  have a really big vision and you get
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  50% of the way there, you've done really
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  well.
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  So you somebody's got to show the organization
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  what blue sky thinking looks like
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  and then that person has to be a,
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  has to stick around and then has to
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  actually drive through
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  whatever innovation needs to be driven through. So
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  you may then be classified as a change
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  agent.
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  You may not be very popular in your
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  organization, but
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  you probably were hired to do that. And
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  so I think that's really important.
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  I agree with the collaboration piece. You have
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  to bring people on a journey,
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  and you have to show certainly clinicians, you
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  have to show them the why.
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  Right? Why are we doing this initiative
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  versus we should just do it because it
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  makes us look good. That's really important. People
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  need to be able to understand the narrative.
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  So telling a story
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  and communicating
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  that story is also really important,
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  in the process, in my opinion.
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  And can you elaborate too on sort of
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  you mentioned sort of you need somebody to
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  come to the table and bring that vision,
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  but you also mentioned that might not be
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  very popular necessarily sometimes. I guess, how you
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  how do you stay resilient and optimistic
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  and not fall into any sort of cynical
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  thinking when you're trying to be that vision
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  for the for the organization?
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  So I suppose it it really it really
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  boils down to the individual's personality. But I
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  always say to people that,
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  working in health care is is like a
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  marriage. Right? There's more rough times than good
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  times. But if you make it to 7
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  years, it's happy days.
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  And I've been in this for 38 years,
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  so it's probably a really bad marriage. But
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  you've got to always reset your clock. Right?
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  We're all running I would say in health
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  care now, most leaders are running on more
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  like half empty versus half full because of
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  all the changes and
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  the the costs and, like, everything that's causing
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  issues. But you've got to find yourself back
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  to why you do the work. So it's
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  easy in pediatrics because
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  coming to work every day knowing that you're
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  helping kids is a easy mission Mhmm. To
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  follow. Some aren't as easy. But in health
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  care in general, you're not in health care
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  if you don't wanna help people. Right. So
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  you have to bring yourself back
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  to that true north
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  probably every week. And once you do that,
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  then you remain that champion of change
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  if if you want to do something differently.
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  Right? So the question I ask people is,
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  do you wanna do more of the same
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  every day, or do you wanna do something
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  that actually will
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  allow us to stand out or you as
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  an individual to stand out or as a
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  team
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  to stand out.
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  It's hard to get there, but you have
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  to keep that focus.
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  There's a mindset.
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  I also say that it also involves,
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  you know,
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  probably a lot of drinking
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  and a lots of pizza. But there's usually
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  a time when you have to ground yourself
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  back.
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  That's usually on a weekly basis. Yeah. Absolutely.
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  Pizza's always great. Yeah.
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  So
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  LK has really been at the the forefront
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  of connectivity and interoperability
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  for years.
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  I'm wondering if you can share some specific
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  examples, doctor Chaudhry, of your your collaboration with
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  LK at Seattle Children's and and what what
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  that's yielded. So let's go back to the
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  earlier part of the conversation when I spoke
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  about, well, what problem are we trying to
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  solve? So what's really interesting about us is
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  at the time, we were trying to do
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  a CERNAT epic migration
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  in the middle of a pandemic.
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  And I bumped into AJ at a CHIME
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  conference, and we started talking about, well, I
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  have a problem. And the problem I had
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  is
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  when you ask a physician,
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  you know, what do you want to do
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  with your historical data? The answer is always
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  going to be, I want it all. And
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  in pediatrics, depending on what state you're in,
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  sometimes you have to keep 30 years' worth
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  of data.
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  And at the moment in time when we
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  were thinking about this conversion and we had
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  been on Cerner for 17 years, that was
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  17 years of data
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  that I had no clue on how to
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  convert,
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  where to put it, and how to make
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  it accessible in the format that clinicians would
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  want to consume it. Right? Because there's a
• 10:28
  big difference between here's your data
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  versus here's your data, and you actually can
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  do something with that data. So this is
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  how we sort of started our journey in
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  partnership with Elkay in terms of we have
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  a data problem.
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  Rather not move it all into Epic because
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  that way, a really big database.
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  And can you give us ideas and engineering
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  skills to help us out of this particular
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  problem? So it goes back to what I'm
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  saying. We had a problem to solve.
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  They're the data engineers. Well, that's what AJ
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  told me at the time.
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  And so we said, here's a problem for
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  you to solve. But I'll let AJ tell
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  the rest of that story.
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  Yeah. I'll tell the rest of the story
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  is really when I met Zafar first time,
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  he
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  he told me that, you know, you better
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  do a good job.
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  And I said, what if we do a
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  good job? He said, I'll go to Becker's,
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  and I'll tell them how good you guys
• 11:16
  are.
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  And I said, what if we don't do
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  a good job? He said, I'll go to
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  Becker's, and I'll tell them how bad you
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  are.
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  So it all summarizes pretty well. But, you
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  know, the opportunity came in, and I think
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  we work very closely with the clinicians, with
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  their even physicians, understanding their workflow.
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  See, I think, you know, one is data
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  and then understanding the data
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  going towards enterprise data management, archiving piece into
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  it is important what we are doing here.
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  But more than that,
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  if you look at it, a children's hospital,
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  sometimes the workflow is different than an academic
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  hospital, then it is different than an ID
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  and big ID and hospital. So you've got
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  to understand that. You've got to actually work
• 11:57
  with them.
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  Because if you are archiving any existing data,
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  if the usage is there or informatics for
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  physicians to go back and look at some
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  of the old legacy data, then actually you
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  can see the real value
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  of that solution.
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  And I think Seattle Children also helped us
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  giving feedback, which we incorporated in our solution
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  to make it more stronger and go towards
• 12:20
  the direction where we are today.
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  So I I also wanna say thank you
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  to Seattle Children and doctor Zafar Chaudhry in
• 12:26
  partnering with us on this. Yeah. That that
• 12:28
  that's really fascinating that that collaboration,
• 12:31
  you took feedback from Seattle Children's too. Is
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  that do you think that's essential for for
• 12:35
  a partner like yours to be open to
• 12:38
  adjusting and iterating based on your partner's feedback?
• 12:41
  I think feedback from any partner is extremely
• 12:44
  important because, you know, you also have to
• 12:46
  see from their side what are they trying
• 12:48
  to actually achieve.
• 12:50
  You have a solution which you want to
• 12:51
  actually take it to the places. And if
• 12:53
  you wanna make that differentiator in the market,
• 12:56
  that collaboration, listening to them, you know, we
• 12:58
  made numerous trips to Seattle Children just to
• 13:01
  sit in a room, understand, do a whiteboard
• 13:03
  session. What next can we actually do on
• 13:06
  that? In fact,
• 13:07
  even after our product was deployed, everything was
• 13:11
  live, we still went back and looked at
• 13:12
  it. What else can we do it? Because
• 13:14
  that's the only way you can make your
• 13:16
  product more richer.
• 13:17
  And, these are some complex things that we
• 13:20
  solve here at Elkay.
• 13:22
  Interoperability
• 13:22
  is out there and it's not everyone who
• 13:25
  can do it. You know, today,
• 13:28
  among all the things that we are doing
• 13:30
  now, even Commonwealth, we have the platform that
• 13:33
  is going to support Commonwealth.
• 13:35
  So we're we're really trying to solve real
• 13:37
  complex problems out there
• 13:39
  around interoperability. Yeah. Yeah. But I wanna move
• 13:42
  now to a a final question thinking here
• 13:44
  because we're talking about data and, of course,
• 13:46
  the rise of AI,
• 13:48
  and and machine learning and these various solutions
• 13:50
  that are coming coming to the fore. Data
• 13:53
  is just essential for the effectiveness of the
• 13:55
  of these programs and these this technology.
• 13:57
  I and so so my question then, what
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  steps should organizations take to ensure their data
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  is reliable, accurate,
• 14:02
  and ready for for these advanced technologies? Doctor
• 14:05
  Choudhary, do you wanna begin on this question?
• 14:07
  So you always have to start with governance.
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  Right? Data governance is really important in this
• 14:13
  space,
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  and many organizations don't focus enough time.
• 14:17
  And and data governance not just in the
• 14:19
  IT realm
• 14:20
  but with multidisciplinary
• 14:23
  teams. Right?
• 14:24
  I I can say data is correct and
• 14:26
  a physician might tell me that data's incorrect.
• 14:29
  So you need to include all of
• 14:31
  these stakeholders
• 14:32
  in your data governance group.
• 14:34
  The other thing to look at is, well,
• 14:36
  what is the quality of the data that
• 14:38
  you actually hold?
• 14:39
  Right? So we've talked about data warehouses in
• 14:42
  the past
• 14:43
  when it comes to analytics.
• 14:44
  Now there's data lakes and data oceans and
• 14:48
  probably now a data sea.
• 14:50
  And really what you're looking at when you
• 14:51
  talk about AI is
• 14:53
  what are you pointing that machine learning to,
• 14:56
  right? Are you pointing it to your data
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  warehouse,
• 14:59
  which is probably a very small language model?
• 15:01
  Are you pointing it to a very large
• 15:03
  language model? Because in our case we have
• 15:06
  17 years' worth of Cerner data. That's a
• 15:08
  much bigger pool than just a year's worth
• 15:10
  of data.
• 15:11
  So you've got to validate the quality of
• 15:13
  the data that you have
• 15:15
  when you are trying to make clinical decisions.
• 15:19
  Once all that has been done by the
• 15:20
  IT team in collaboration with your clinicians,
• 15:24
  then you need a team of like minded
• 15:26
  clinical people who are now going to then
• 15:29
  test.
• 15:30
  Lots of testing has to happen. So when
• 15:32
  we did our archive project with Elkay,
• 15:35
  we ended up on version 14
• 15:38
  of what we actually
• 15:40
  launched.
• 15:41
  Took 14 iterations
• 15:43
  for us to test,
• 15:44
  review,
• 15:45
  satisfy a group of individuals,
• 15:48
  and it's all contextually
• 15:49
  mapped because that's the other important thing. Right?
• 15:52
  I don't want to be a physician that
• 15:53
  has data in system
• 15:55
  a, and then I go to system b,
• 15:57
  and then I have to find that data
• 15:59
  all over again. I want all those data
• 16:01
  points to be contextually linked
• 16:03
  so that at a click of a button,
• 16:05
  I can take action on data. Because when
• 16:09
  you think about the average outpatient visit,
• 16:12
  takes 8 minutes. In 8 minutes, you've got
• 16:14
  to talk to the patient,
• 16:16
  find all the data you need about that
• 16:18
  patient, then make an informed decision
• 16:20
  on what to do next with that patient.
• 16:22
  That is not a lot of time.
• 16:24
  So our job
• 16:26
  at MIND
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  versus
• 16:29
  our partners is to make sure that that
• 16:30
  data is clean, available,
• 16:33
  valid, usable,
• 16:34
  at the right place, at the right time,
• 16:36
  at the point of care. Yeah. Thank you
• 16:38
  so much, doctor Chaudhry. Ajay, what would you
• 16:40
  add to to that? I think, you know,
• 16:42
  just to add to what doctor Zafar said.
• 16:44
  I mean, it it all comes down to
• 16:45
  the source of the data, quality of the
• 16:47
  data, and reliability of the data.
• 16:50
  If you have that good reliable data, that
• 16:52
  becomes like a fuel. Or any AI application
• 16:55
  or machine learning applications to really perform what
• 16:58
  they are supposed to.
• 17:00
  If at the start of the source of
• 17:02
  the data itself is not good enough,
• 17:05
  then you cannot actually get that end result
• 17:07
  with all these
• 17:08
  great tools which are available today.
• 17:11
  In order to get there, you need to
• 17:13
  have a very good interoperability
• 17:15
  platform. You need to actually make sure the
• 17:17
  validation of the product or validation of the
• 17:19
  data is done correctly.
• 17:21
  An organization need to put some focus on
• 17:24
  it, put some area of expertise in it,
• 17:27
  also partner with the right people there who
• 17:29
  can help you get there.
• 17:31
  Because all these big investment that you're doing,
• 17:34
  if
• 17:35
  the reliability of the data is not there,
• 17:37
  you'll end up actually
• 17:38
  getting not the result that you're looking for
• 17:40
  in long term. Yeah. It's crucial that that
• 17:43
  you have it. Yeah. It's the Absolutely. Excellent.
• 17:45
  Well,
• 17:46
  this really was a pleasure to to walk
• 17:47
  through this conversation with both of you, Ajay,
• 17:49
  and and doctor Chaudhry. Truly appreciate you taking
• 17:51
  the time.
• 17:52
  I also, of course, wanna thank LK for
• 17:54
  sponsoring today's conversation.
• 17:56
  To our listeners, thank you for joining us,
• 17:58
  and please be sure to check out other
• 18:00
  Becker's podcasts. Have a wonderful rest of your
• 18:02
  day. And gentlemen, I hope you enjoy the
• 18:04
  conference. Thank you so much. Thank you.