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Breaking the Silence & Breaking Free · Build Your Own Fairytale

0:10
Kristen: You have a great life, maybe even perfect life on paper.
0:14
Kristen: Yet, do you ever feel like you're not doing enough either at home or at work?
0:18
Kristen: Have you followed all the so-called"rules" yet somehow feel like you're missing something?
0:23
Kristen: Don't worry.
0:24
Kristen: You are not alone.
0:26
Kristen: Because guess what?
0:27
Kristen: The traditional path society let us to blindly follow were not designed for today's women.
0:33
Kristen: We are dreamers.
0:35
Kristen: We are doers and we get to write our own stories.
0:39
Kristen: And this podcast is about taking ownership of your beautiful life, prioritizing your dreams and building your own fairytale.
0:46
Kristen: Hi, I'm your host.
0:47
Kristen: Kristen Lettini.
0:48
Kristen: Join me each episode and we'll learn from real people who have boldly gone before us and share candid stories from their journeys.
0:54
Kristen: Because this is a team sport.
0:56
Kristen: When one of us wins, we all win by carving out new pathways for ourselves, our friends and our children.
1:02
Kristen: There's room for everyone to build their own fairytale.
1:05
Kristen: And listen, I get it because I'm a wife, a twin mom and a cat mom.
1:09
Kristen: I've worked in a small company and I've worked in a massive global company.
1:13
Kristen: I've gotten the degrees.
1:14
Kristen: I've been the primary breadwinner.
1:16
Kristen: I've also stayed at home with my kids briefly.
1:18
Kristen: I called in my summer of fun though.
1:20
Kristen: Technically it started out pretty far from that with the whole family getting COVID.
1:24
Kristen: But anywho- now I've changed my current status to entrepreneur, which is super exciting and scary at the same time.
1:31
Kristen: I'm calling time on sitting around and waiting for someone else or some one to swoop in and make it all happen.
1:38
Kristen: Because unlike those stories, we own the pen to this one.
1:42
Kristen: So consider yourself sprinkled with fairy dust and let's go.
1:47
Kristen: Hey guys.
1:47
Kristen: Welcome back for another episode of Build Your Own Fairytale.
1:51
Kristen: I know we're talking all about non-traditional career paths this season, but first I wanted to call out that this week is Mental Health Awareness Week and our careers, our work can really impact that mental health.
2:02
Kristen: You know, we talked to mental health in season one on episodes, 11 and 30.
2:06
Kristen: If you want to check those out I'll link them in the show notes, but today, we're going to talk about mental health for a slightly different reason.
2:12
Kristen: It's, it's indirectly related to that career path, but it's an important one nonetheless.
2:16
Kristen: So today's guest, Michelle Anhang, is a coach specializing in supporting individuals and families struggling with mental health, as well as those moving forward after loss.
2:26
Kristen: And Michelle is qualified to speak about this, not only from her trainings, but she's lived through unthinkable loss.
2:32
Kristen: Her husband struggled with mental health issues and sadly took his own life by suicide when she was only 34 and had two young kids.
2:40
Kristen: So she's here to share not only about those mental health challenges and what she does today, but really the winding career path and soul searching she took to get there.
2:49
Kristen: And spoiler alert.
2:50
Kristen: She has turned that pain into purpose.
2:52
Kristen: She's reinvented And she's found something that she loves to do.
2:55
Kristen: And I'm so excited to share that with you today.
2:58
Kristen: So buckle up, let's chat with Michelle.
3:01
Kristen: Michelle, welcome to the podcast.
3:03
Kristen: Thank you so much for joining us today.
3:05
Michelle: Thank you for having me.
3:07
Kristen: I'm excited to dive right in with you because as you mentioned in our little pre-chat, you've had not one, not two, but seven different, career paths.
3:15
Kristen: So maybe start by just taking us back to where you started and we'll, we'll walk through that journey with you to see, to see where you are today.
3:23
Michelle: For sure.
3:24
Michelle: So I had a very windy path, definitely you know, a lot of it just kind of had to do with me not knowing myself.
3:33
Michelle: But got my university degree in psychology after switching majors and third year from linguistics,
3:41
Kristen: Who hasn't switched their major really?
3:46
Michelle: So yeah, started there.
3:48
Michelle: Got my degree in psychology.
3:50
Michelle: Didn't wanna be a therapist though.
3:52
Michelle: I enjoyed learning about people and the mind.
3:57
Michelle: And you know, interestingly enough, I found psychology very easy because, well, I am related to and know many people who fit a lot of the characteristics that I was studying in psychology.
4:10
Michelle: I'm just gonna leave it there.
4:11
Michelle: And so I did very well because it was like, Oh, this disorder, Yeah, I know this fits into that.
4:17
Michelle: So then I could, you know, on exams when it's like, Oh, talk about a diagnosis or, you know, different symptoms.
4:23
Michelle: I just wrote everything I knew about the person and there it was.
4:26
Michelle: But at the same time, in my head, and I guess this was, I was what, 22 at the time, I thought, Oh, I don't wanna spend my whole day listening to people talking about their problems,
4:37
Kristen: valid.
4:38
Michelle: valid.
4:38
Michelle: And then, you know, and it, and, and it's funny now, you know, Almost 30 years later, I have done decades of therapy, love therapy, and, you know, also moved into a slightly different direction, but we'll get there.
4:53
Michelle: Yeah, so I got my degree got married young and needed to work.
4:57
Michelle: And, someone suggested,"how about law you know, be a law clerk?" And I thought, okay, took a quick course to learn how to do that.
5:06
Michelle: I liked the idea of The nine to five.
5:09
Michelle: And I also was considering law at the time.
5:12
Michelle: One of my grandfathers was a lawyer, and I was like, Oh, well maybe, maybe there's something here for me too.
5:17
Michelle: But it turned out that I did not like law at all.
5:20
Kristen: Okay.
5:20
Michelle: and you know, I mean, I still stayed in it for 10 years.
5:24
Michelle: It was fine for me at the time.
5:25
Michelle: I had my babies while I was doing that.
5:28
Michelle: So I could take my maternity leaves, I could still leave work at, at five and pick my kids up from daycare and still have a full evening.
5:35
Michelle: So it worked for me at the time, but it was not an area that I enjoyed being in just because of the adversarial nature of it.
5:44
Michelle: So from there I was at a party and ran into an old acquaintance or friend of my husband's at the time, and we were talking about, you know, Hey, what are you up to these days?
5:56
Michelle: And I told him what I was doing.
5:58
Michelle: I was like, Yeah, but I'm not loving.
5:59
Michelle: And he's an investor in startups.
6:00
Michelle: And he was like, I kind of have this idea of a company, but you know, I need a woman to run it.
6:05
Michelle: And it was a mobile spa.
6:07
Michelle: And I was like, I am.
6:09
Michelle: So it was a lot of fun.
6:11
Michelle: I mean, I'm not an aesthetician, but I hired them.
6:13
Michelle: I was basically everything behind the scenes and marketing and all of that.
6:18
Michelle: So I wasn't actually doing the services, but you know, we ended up having, I think, seven aestheticians in total few hundred clients.
6:25
Michelle: It was a good go for two years.
6:27
Michelle: Learned a ton, but.
6:29
Michelle: The company folded only because at that time, it was, it was a new concept.
6:35
Michelle: And so most people are used to like, Oh, I need to get my nails done.
6:38
Michelle: I'm just gonna run down the street.
6:39
Michelle: And, you know, most people have a nail salon close by that.
6:44
Michelle: It was easy enough to run to, so to kind of change the mindset to, well, we'll come to you was a little bit of a tough sell at the time.
6:52
Michelle: So, That didn't work, but great experience.
6:55
Michelle: Then I was still in the state of what do I wanna be when I grow up, although I don't know that I ever got out of it.
7:00
Michelle: I might still even repeat
7:01
Kristen: it.
7:02
Kristen: I think a lot of us are just perpetually there.
7:04
Michelle: Right?
7:05
Michelle: Yeah.
7:05
Michelle: Makes life exciting.
7:07
Michelle: So at that time, I had my kids and they were young.
7:12
Michelle: I was going to the gym regularly, really into health and, thought, hey, since I spent so much time at the gym, maybe it'll be fun to be a personal trainer.
7:21
Michelle: And so I.
7:24
Michelle: Became certified as a personal trainer, and a mix between you know, just not having the tools to set up my own business.
7:34
Michelle: And at the same time, my husband started having some serious mental health challenges, so not being able to focus there that didn't last very long either.
7:46
Michelle: So.
7:47
Michelle: Kind of went back into law cuz it was, it was something a little bit more stable that I needed and then sadly my husband passed away because of his mental health challenges.
7:57
Michelle: He died by suicide.
7:59
Michelle: And then I was in this place of like, Okay, what's next?
8:03
Michelle: I was freelancing in law and.
8:07
Michelle: Needed something a little bit more stable and being the only provider for myself and my kids.
8:13
Michelle: I ended up taking a position with a friend that I knew from university.
8:20
Michelle: He had started a mortgage company and it was actually kind of a funny story.
8:24
Michelle: I wanna say like midlife awakening, but at the time I was 34, so I don't even think it's counted as midlife yet, but I had a lot of identity crises and what am I gonna do with my life?
8:35
Michelle: And so here I was you know, a few months after being widowed and I'm talking to my aunt who lived in New York at the time.
8:42
Michelle: I'm in Canada.
8:43
Michelle: And she was like, come here, live near me.
8:46
Michelle: You know, there's a lot of opportunities and I was seriously considering it.
8:49
Michelle: And literally I'm on the phone with her and thinking about, well, maybe I should just pick up and move and start fresh.
8:55
Michelle: And I get an email from this person's Wife who I also knew from back when we were in university saying, you know, I don't know what you're up to these days, but if you're looking for an opportunity, I might have one for you.
9:07
Michelle: And I just, I remember saying to my aunt, I'm like, Aggie, I gotta go And responded right away and said, Yeah, let's talk with this opportunity.
9:15
Michelle: So this was my friend who had just started a mortgage brokerage a couple years earlier.
9:19
Michelle: Was looking for somebody that he knew that he could trust, that had some of the background that I had from working in law that could, compliment what he was doing and building his business.
9:30
Michelle: So, went into the mortgage business, and became a mortgage agent.
9:36
Michelle: Learned a lot about accounting.
9:37
Michelle: Became the financial controller of this company.
9:40
Michelle: Spent 10 years in that setting until I went through yet another, this was a real midlife crisis or awakening at 45 and said, Oh my gosh, what am I doing with my life?
9:53
Michelle: And Then decided to move into coaching, which is where I'm at right now.
9:58
Kristen: Wow.
9:59
Kristen: So that is a number of steps and I just wanna go back because I feel like at that time when you went back to law for the stability, You mentioned, but I just feel like what I need to express my condolences for your loss of your husband.
10:14
Kristen: I know it was, many years ago now, but That was a traumatic event, right?
10:19
Kristen: That was life changing.
10:21
Michelle: Yes,
10:22
Kristen: not to, I don't even, that's not even the correct term, but like for you and for your, your children.
10:26
Kristen: Were still young,
10:27
Michelle: Yeah, they were seven and four at the time.
10:29
Michelle: It was quite devastating.
10:32
Michelle: You know, he was sick.
10:33
Michelle: He hid a lot of it from us for a long time till he couldn't anymore.
10:38
Michelle: And then by the time we understood, To the level that we understood it and he was able to get treatment.
10:45
Michelle: the disease was just too far into it.
10:49
Michelle: And he lost his life, unfortunately.
10:51
Kristen: It's heartbreaking.
10:52
Kristen: So tell us, how did you, well, not only because you're navigating these, like what do I wanna do with my career?
10:58
Kristen: And I feel very similar to you in that a number of these things came up for you cuz a friend was like, Hey, what do you think about this?
11:03
Kristen: And you sort of follow it and say, Yeah, sure, I could try that.
11:06
Kristen: Right?
11:06
Kristen: But it may not be like the thing for you.
11:08
Kristen: So you're trying to navigate that this massive life event happens, rocks your world.
11:13
Kristen: How do you even pick up the pieces to one, like just keep your family together?
11:20
Kristen: And then still continue this career navigation.
11:24
Kristen: They're two massive hurdles, obstacles, I don't know the right word to use, but how do you even put one foot in front of the other when that happens?
11:33
Michelle: Yeah, great question.
11:35
Michelle: And I'll be honest, I'm the poster of child for how not to do it.
11:40
Michelle: I learned a lot of things to start off.
11:43
Michelle: You know, the community that I grew up in, the surroundings, and I'm sure many other people experience this too, suicide is just not talked about.
11:51
Michelle: And it's kind of, you know, swept under the rug hidden.
11:54
Michelle: And this was the case in, in our situation.
11:58
Michelle: The family wanted to say that he died in an accident.
12:01
Michelle: And at the time, I kind of mentioned I was sort of a lost soul, didn't quite know who I was, what I wanted.
12:09
Michelle: It was very shame driven, just based on my own personal upbringing.
12:14
Michelle: And so when, when it was like, Oh, well let's say it's a suicide, immediately my mind goes to like, Oh yeah let's cover it up.
12:20
Michelle: We'll say it's an accident.
12:21
Michelle: Because my mind, I don't wanna be blamed for any part of this.
12:25
Michelle: Even though I knew I did everything I could at the time to help him.
12:28
Michelle: But, you know, there was still that shame of, I just don't want questions.
12:32
Michelle: I don't wanna deal with this.
12:34
Michelle: And so I, I lied as well,
12:37
Kristen: Did you even share with your children at the time?
12:39
Kristen: I mean, they're so little.
12:40
Kristen: I'm not sure that they would understand either way.
12:42
Michelle: no.
12:42
Michelle: It took 10 years for me to have the courage to tell them.
12:46
Michelle: And so, yeah, lied from them.
12:48
Michelle: Lied from everybody that was, you know, really only the close family and a few close friends knew the truth.
12:55
Michelle: And that nearly destroyed me is really all I can say.
12:59
Michelle: Cuz when you're hiding something that big, and that's such a big part of.
13:04
Michelle: Your life, the secret you know, you're shrinking slowly and painfully.
13:09
Michelle: And you know, it just created a lot of mental health challenges for me as well.
13:14
Michelle: Not being able to grieve.
13:17
Michelle: The true cause of death.
13:19
Michelle: You know, I'm grieving, and talking to people and they're like, Wow, what a shame this accident.
13:24
Michelle: And you never know.
13:24
Michelle: And I'm like, Yes.
13:25
Michelle: And, and I'm feeling like, wow, I am such a liar.
13:29
Michelle: But at the same time, I'm also like, but I need to protect everybody and from the truth and, everybody being my kids, being the family, being, what I thought was, was right.
13:41
Michelle: So it's almost a double life of just, this is what really happened, This is really where I'm at, versus the face that I put on for everybody else.
13:50
Michelle: Which also raised a lot of questions because in my head I was like, Okay, well you.
13:54
Michelle: I've gotta hide all of this.
13:55
Michelle: I can't grieve outwardly.
13:57
Michelle: And so, you know, the makeup's done, the hair is done.
14:01
Michelle: I'm dressed to the nines every time I go out.
14:03
Michelle: And, people are looking me like, Wow, you're looking good I'm like, Oh, thank you.
14:07
Michelle: But, you know, at the same time, it was also the only thing I felt I had control over in my life was what my hair and makeup and clothes looked like.
14:15
Michelle: So I held onto that.
14:16
Michelle: But yeah, it was a lot of what I thought I needed to do for everybody else,
14:22
Kristen: Which is just, it's heartbreaking, right?
14:24
Kristen: Cuz not only is it that weight that you carry around because you are, you have these, these lies to continue, but then the weight of that grief and not being able to share when that girlfriend says like, How you doing?
14:37
Kristen: Right?
14:37
Kristen: You, you're coming up with a whole new story from what you really want or feel.
14:43
Kristen: Oh, it's gut wrenching to hear all that you've been through on that.
14:49
Michelle: Yes.
14:50
Michelle: And you know, healing can't take place when you're denying.
14:55
Michelle: The loss, right?
14:57
Michelle: Like it, it just stayed, it just got stuffed down and, you know, anxiety and depression took over, you know, anxiety of who's gonna find out the truth and what if they tell my kids, What if my kids here before I'm ready for them to know the depression of just all the suppressed emotions.
15:13
Michelle: And so yeah, I was just a ticking time bomb.
15:17
Kristen: Wow.
15:17
Kristen: And so what then pushed you over the edge at that 10 year mark to say, I can't, I can't live this lie anymore.
15:26
Michelle: It was a mix of a few things.
15:28
Michelle: You know, being in a career that I knew was very wrong for me was one, although I was, again, I was so used to living this life of, you know, should, you know.
15:43
Michelle: What everything that I thought I should be doing.
15:45
Michelle: So having a career that like, well, you know, it pays me a decent amount.
15:48
Michelle: I'm a single mother.
15:49
Michelle: I should be happy.
15:51
Michelle: You know, there's the should, I should be happy.
15:53
Michelle: I should be grateful.
15:54
Michelle: You know, being you know, this whole idea of not being able to grieve and not being open about what my husband went through because, well, I should be loyal to the family and And then I was in a relationship that, you know, on paper seemed great, but was very, very unhealthy and like, no kidding, cuz you know, I was super unhealthy, so I'm not attracting healthy people in relationships.
16:18
Michelle: And that one was a very, very challenging relationship for me.
16:23
Michelle: I'll just say that I needed a lot of therapy to get over my experience there, but I basically attracted somebody that had their own traumas that they were also not talking about, and the two of us were, it was just very, very toxic and,
16:39
Kristen: was Post Your husband.
16:41
Michelle: Yes, Yes.
16:42
Michelle: So this was 10 years later when I got to the point of realizing that I needed to tell my kids and, and talk about it.
16:48
Michelle: So yeah, going through all of this toxicity, I'm just, you know, kind of thinking to myself, and I was turning 45 at the time and just kind of doing one of those, like, okay, where am I at at 45?
16:58
Michelle: And I realized I was the common denominator in all the toxicity in my life and.
17:04
Michelle: That's when I decided, well, I need to do something about this because I can't live another 45 years in this much pain.
17:11
Michelle: And so I went back into therapy for, I don't know how many teen's time.
17:17
Michelle: But this time it was like, okay, I am ready to do the work that it takes.
17:22
Michelle: To heal from this.
17:23
Michelle: So this was, it was really a 10 year pause on my grieving.
17:27
Michelle: Cuz I couldn't let myself grieve.
17:29
Michelle: I was just like, I can't, like, I was so worried that if I started to grieve, the floodgates would open and they would never close again.
17:37
Michelle: And I was the only person my kids had to count on.
17:40
Michelle: They, you know, financially, emotionally, all of that.
17:43
Michelle: I was like, Well, I have to be there.
17:45
Michelle: I can't do it.
17:46
Michelle: You know, again, another should.
17:48
Michelle: And but this time I was just like, this is just too much.
17:52
Michelle: I am, literally self-destructing here.
17:55
Michelle: So that, that pushed me into doing the work, doing the healing.
18:00
Michelle: And getting to the point where I could tell my kids what really happened and once my kids knew the truth, I didn't care who else knew it, That didn't matter to me.
18:09
Kristen: My goodness.
18:10
Kristen: I, I, when you said, when you did that reflection and you realized you were the common denominator, I feel like even just the ability to do that inward reflection and have that learning understanding, that felt like a huge turning point for you to then say, Okay, I'm gonna go work on this because I can control that.
18:30
Michelle: Yeah.
18:31
Michelle: I mean, but I was at a point where I was literally crying every single day, either about things that were happening in the relationship being unhappy at work, you know, I was miserable and I guess one of my rock bottoms, but that was really where I just hit this low point of like, Okay, I'm not sure exactly who I am, but I know that I'm not this.
18:52
Kristen: Yeah.
18:52
Michelle: And, you know, and it was like, okay, there's gotta be something better out there.
18:57
Kristen: Yeah, I love that.
18:58
Kristen: I wanna go back to that piece, but first too, how did your children react?
19:05
Kristen: Take it when you finally shared with them the truth.
19:07
Kristen: Cuz at that point, I guess they were, you know, young teen, right?
19:10
Michelle: Yes.
19:11
Michelle: They were teams at that point.
19:13
Michelle: I was really worried that they would be really angry at me.
19:16
Michelle: I knew that one of the risks of telling them was that they may just say, We never wanna talk to you again.
19:22
Michelle: Thankfully that didn't happen.
19:23
Michelle: They were very accepting, they understood.
19:27
Michelle: And I also had a lot of prep in how I told them when I told them, like literally every single element of me sharing that was pre-planned of just like, where are we going to be?
19:39
Michelle: What am I going to say?
19:41
Michelle: And so I told them and they said, you know, they, of course they wish they knew from the beginning.
19:45
Michelle: But at the same time, they understood why I did what I did.
19:49
Michelle: And we move forward from there.
19:51
Michelle: I mean, listen, it's been how many years now since I told them.
19:56
Michelle: I'm thinking that maybe five or six.
19:58
Michelle: We're still processing stuff.
20:00
Michelle: There's still new stuff that comes along, but at the same time, I'm grateful that I have a relationship with them that we can still work through it and now as they're in their twenties and things will come up and, you know, they'll still have a random question at this stage in their lives of like, you know, wanting to know more about dad and his history and, you know, noticing similarities and differences.
20:23
Michelle: And so we, we just, we take it in stride, but, you know, I'm glad that I can now be open with them.
20:31
Michelle: And, you know, and, and just even sharing more and more because, you know, I, I gave them that big information.
20:36
Michelle: They didn't need, you know, at the time.
20:38
Michelle: I wasn't just gonna dump everything on them.
20:40
Michelle: And also there was a lot of stuff that I blocked out that didn't even think about talking to them about.
20:46
Michelle: And then, over the years as things come up, it's like, Oh yeah, and then there's this I need to tell you.
20:52
Michelle: But they're like, Oh my gosh, there's more.
20:54
Kristen: Okay, I was gonna say, what a, what a relief that they didn't pick up and leave, right?
20:58
Kristen: That they were supportive and understanding.
21:00
Kristen: They took it in stride.
21:01
Kristen: Did you have similar experience with other family and friends?
21:05
Kristen: I know they were the priority, but did you find it was similar reaction from others?
21:09
Michelle: Oh, everybody.
21:11
Michelle: Everybody.
21:12
Michelle: And it's funny because I you know, I told my close friends, they were all wonderful.
21:17
Michelle: You know, extended family was great also.
21:22
Michelle: You know, his side hasn't really acknowledged what I do now and that I actually went public with it.
21:28
Michelle: But, you know, that's their journey and I respect.
21:31
Michelle: Where they're at.
21:32
Michelle: But it came to a point when I recognized the work that I wanted to go into, I actually created a Facebook post and posted it publicly saying this is the work that I wanna do.
21:41
Michelle: But hey, everybody, just so you all know, at the same time, from the horse's mouth, Here's what really happened.
21:48
Michelle: And I was terrified.
21:50
Michelle: I was like, Oh my gosh, people are gonna be so angry with me.
21:53
Michelle: And like when I posted on Facebook, I mean, my husband and I grew up together.
21:56
Michelle: We knew each other since we were eight.
21:58
Michelle: So I had my friends from childhood that many of them were his friends, and then throughout our lives, so hundreds of people at this point that I was Facebook friends from his life and from mine and I was like, Oh my gosh, what's.
22:11
Michelle: Gonna come out of this, like what are people gonna say to me?
22:14
Michelle: And I receive nothing but love and support.
22:17
Michelle: And I remember first of all, it took me three weeks to create this Facebook post and, and and at the time, like actually both of my kids were part of it.
22:26
Michelle: I was like, Listen, this is what I need to do and I need to dedicate my life to helping people that are in the.
22:31
Michelle: Similar situation for than me that haven't done the healing work yet.
22:35
Michelle: And my kids were like, Yeah, do it.
22:37
Michelle: One of my sons has a degree now in communications, but at the time I think he was an ending high school, but always a really good writer.
22:45
Michelle: So he was helping me edited and all of that.
22:47
Michelle: So, and then the post was ready and it was like, Okay, God, Mom, did you post it yet?
22:51
Michelle: I'm like, No, I need another day.
22:53
Michelle: I need another day.
22:53
Michelle: I'm terrified.
22:55
Michelle: And they were both like, Okay.
22:57
Michelle: Hit, hit post like, just do it.
22:59
Michelle: I'm like, Okay, fine.
23:01
Michelle: I was just terrified.
23:02
Michelle: And then I'm just showered with love, like the comments, the calls, the emails, the texts, the responses on Facebook.
23:11
Michelle: And I cried all day because I didn't expect the amount of love that I got back from that.
23:17
Kristen: Wow.
23:18
Michelle: So it was pretty tremendous.
23:19
Kristen: Yeah, I mean, to go from the, I'm doing all this because I should, and I'm, you know, I don't know what someone's gonna say to then get that outpouring of love.
23:27
Kristen: It had to feel, I don't know, So, so good.
23:32
Kristen: Not re I don't know, rewarding, but, so just like a weight is just lifted and you can breathe.
23:37
Michelle: Yeah, it was a huge relief to be able to let that go.
23:42
Kristen: Yeah, and I'm thinking too, it wasn't just the post to share, Okay, I'm coming clean.
23:48
Kristen: He died by suicide.
23:50
Kristen: But it was also a post to put that out there.
23:52
Kristen: Like, Okay, here's now what I'm gonna do with my life.
23:54
Kristen: I'm gonna make it my purpose and use this to fuel my next career.
23:59
Kristen: So can you.
24:02
Kristen: Speak a little bit to how you got to that and how you got that clarity on this is now what I'm meant to do and I'm gonna make my life's work
24:10
Michelle: So while I was going through this midlife awakening, you know, doing therapy, I was getting coaching you know, doing actually a few different modalities of therapy.
24:22
Michelle: I ended up taking a coach's training program and So during that process there was also a lot of healing just cuz you know, when you're learning how to support other people, you end up just vicariously doing a ton of your own work in the training.
24:37
Michelle: So that was happening too.
24:39
Michelle: So I ended up leaving.
24:41
Michelle: The finance role that, you know, I was not meant to be in didn't quite know what I was gonna do, but thought, okay, you know what?
24:48
Michelle: I did this training.
24:50
Michelle: Why don't I give it a try as an entrepreneur?
24:52
Michelle: And so I finished the training, joined a coaching program to help brand new coaches figure out, you know, just kind of launch their business.
25:02
Michelle: And so part of it, we go into nicheing and who's your ideal client and what's going on?
25:07
Michelle: And so I had written all this stuff about women's empowerment and we're going through all of it just imagine we're in this group Zoom call.
25:16
Michelle: And so there's all the other coaches that you know are, are also launching their business.
25:21
Michelle: And then there's our trainer who is also a coach.
25:23
Michelle: And she's like, Well, all of this sounds great, she said.
25:26
Michelle: But there's one thing that I see here in your form that you filled out that says Mental health advocate.
25:31
Michelle: That doesn't seem to quite fit.
25:33
Michelle: With everything else that you're talking about.
25:35
Michelle: And then I'm like, Oh, okay, so here's the thing, and then she just says, Okay, can we pause for a moment?
25:42
Michelle: She's like, Is everybody else on this call thinking what I'm thinking?
25:46
Kristen: Wow.
25:47
Michelle: nodding, and I'm like, Oh my gosh.
25:50
Michelle: It never even dawned on me
25:52
Kristen: Yeah.
25:53
Michelle: is what I need to be doing.
25:54
Michelle: So, I am very grateful to her for pointing that out and giving me this aha moment of, yes, this is who I want to be supporting.
26:05
Michelle: I've walked this path, I know this path.
26:09
Michelle: Yes, women's empowerment is wonderful, but I, I think it's just kind of human empowerment at this point of Being in command of your life, having agency, you know, personal sovereignty, whatever the words are, but in the context also of mental health.
26:25
Michelle: And so that's kind of how it landed.
26:27
Michelle: And I've been doing it for five years and it's really evolved as I've been doing this work and just seeing how the mental health systems in pretty much every country, Is subpar and people are feeling so disempowered.
26:45
Michelle: They are feeling unmotivated, they feel helpless.
26:49
Michelle: Because most systems are kind of like, you're depressed or you're anxious and you know, Doctor just writes you a prescription.
26:55
Michelle: Here you go.
26:56
Michelle: Take this.
26:56
Michelle: There are no tools, there's nothing.
26:58
Michelle: If the meds don't work, you're ending up feeling frustrated and defeated, not knowing what to do, or you're going through and like, you know, constantly switching up medication, which is also just extremely hard on people.
27:12
Michelle: And this was actually my husband's experience as well.
27:15
Michelle: He had schizoaffective disorder and they couldn't quite find the perfect cocktail of drugs to give him.
27:23
Michelle: And by the end of his life he was taking 17 different pills a day.
27:27
Michelle: You know, some antipsychotics, some to help him sleep, some to help with the weight gain.
27:33
Michelle: Like basically it was like countering the side effects of the different medications that weren't even doing what they needed to be doing.
27:39
Michelle: And he just lost hope.
27:40
Michelle: He was like, I can't do this anymore.
27:42
Michelle: And I had from my own experience of depression and anxiety seeing what this was like, and it was like nobody's checking up on me.
27:50
Michelle: Nobody's giving me that continuous care.
27:54
Michelle: I'm feeling very alone here.
27:56
Michelle: Even though they're like, Oh, well you can just go and get a therapist and talk about it.
27:59
Michelle: Okay, fine.
28:00
Michelle: But is the therapist talking to my doctor?
28:02
Michelle: And it seems that like, Canada, the US so many countries have a very similar notion of this.
28:09
Michelle: You.
28:09
Michelle: How to deal or, or it's really not dealing with mental health challenges.
28:14
Michelle: And so, I would love to see changes happening where it's less fractured and we can create something cohesive to really support the people that need it.
28:24
Michelle: But also to, to empower people cuz there are tools and there are things that we can do to help our mental health.
28:32
Michelle: So I take a holistic perspective.
28:35
Michelle: You know, really looking at the snapshot of your entire life.
28:37
Michelle: What are you doing and what are you not doing to support your mental health?
28:41
Michelle: I bring in mindfulness techniques you know, a little bit of neuroscience, a little bit of different coaching techniques.
28:46
Michelle: All sorts of things that I have learned along the way from either trainings or My own experiences with mental health and just help people see and learn that there are things that you can do, You're not just at the mercy of the medication or the doctors.
29:01
Michelle: Really helping people see, Okay.
29:03
Michelle: Create a mental health toolkit for yourself.
29:06
Michelle: So when you're not feeling good, You know who to reach out to.
29:10
Michelle: You have the list of tools that have worked before.
29:12
Michelle: Cause we never remember when we're in an episode, we don't remember all those tools.
29:17
Michelle: So it's like, okay, have that handy, have it in your phone so you can just pull it up and remember.
29:22
Michelle: And so those kinds of easy, practical tools that are quick and, and digestible that people can feel like.
29:31
Michelle: Okay.
29:32
Michelle: You know, maybe it's not gonna completely get rid of a depressive episode, but you might not slide as deeply into it.
29:39
Michelle: And that's empowering.
29:41
Michelle: Or even just having the self-compassion to note, you know what, I'm not having a good mental health day and I'm allowed to take a day off and I can sit and watch Netflix for a day.
29:50
Michelle: And that's okay.
29:51
Michelle: That counts as self-care.
29:53
Michelle: I don't have to feel guilty and bash myself for it as I'm doing it anyways.
29:58
Kristen: Yeah.
29:58
Kristen: And oh, I have so many, so many thoughts and questions on this.
30:02
Kristen: One of, I mean, I do feel like one of the silver linings of Covid is that we as a whole are a little more aware and mindful of mental health.
30:10
Kristen: Obviously still ways to go, but I guess what is one way that we can.
30:16
Kristen: You touched on a few, maybe that's like the one piece to start with, but one way we can take care of our own mental health.
30:23
Kristen: Or if you have a friend or a loved one who you can see is struggling, or maybe you, you wonder like how do you go about supporting them or reaching out in a way that's not gonna make them feel like, Oh, you have a problem.
30:36
Kristen: No, I'm just, I care and I wanna help you.
30:38
Kristen: What can I do to support?
30:40
Kristen: So those are two big
30:42
Michelle: Yeah.
30:42
Kristen: own, but Curious is here.
30:45
Michelle: So, for our own mental health again, looking at it from that holistic perspective, it's little minor changes that you're making in your day.
30:53
Michelle: So, you know, I, I love that you touched on Covid and it definitely has woken us up a lot more to recognizing the importance of taking care of our mental health.
31:03
Michelle: And I think a lot of people that did not have mental health challenges before, Learnt, had an experience of it, or if they didn't personally, you know, everybody at this point knows someone who has so really looking at how are you living your life?
31:16
Michelle: So even starting from sleep, You know what's sleep hygiene over the pandemic.
31:21
Michelle: A lot of us just got hooked on Netflix and nothing against it.
31:24
Michelle: I did too.
31:25
Michelle: And it's funny cuz I never watched TV before The pandemic and then, you know, here in Toronto we had a lot of lockdown, like more than I think almost anybody in the world.
31:34
Michelle: So spent a lot of time on Netflix and did not get the sleep that I needed.
31:38
Michelle: And so just even knowing like, Okay, I can watch that one more episode, but if I do, what's the cost gonna be tomorrow when I'm sleep deprived?
31:47
Michelle: Well, for our mental health, not great because, I mean, for one thing, when any of us are sleep deprived, we're tired, cranky, we're irritable, we're probably a little bit more hungry, and we crave carbs and sugar, which is not great.
32:01
Michelle: So, If you are irritable and cranky to start off your day and then your mental health isn't great, you can just imagine like you are setting yourself up for kind of a crappy day,
32:13
Kristen: it snowballs from there.
32:15
Michelle: Yeah, exactly.
32:17
Michelle: And so, you know, just making sure that you're well rested you know, diet, and I'm not a dietician, but like we know, So again, like you don't get enough sleep.
32:26
Michelle: You're craving sugar and carbs just to get the energy, like the, the sugar rush, but then we crash after.
32:32
Michelle: So just even knowing like, okay, what is healthy for my body?
32:35
Michelle: What do I like, what is my body like?
32:37
Michelle: What is it not like what, what makes me sluggish versus what gives me energy?
32:43
Michelle: Certain things that, you know, process foods in general are not great.
32:48
Michelle: Definitely not good for our mental health.
32:50
Michelle: So just having an awareness, we're all at choice, but it's knowing, okay, I can have that donut and if I have that donut now and I'm gonna give a presentation, or I'm going into a meeting in a couple of hours, well, I'm.
33:04
Michelle: Gonna crash, and then I'm gonna be tired and I'll probably be a little bit stressed because I'm not fully on here.
33:10
Michelle: So again, why do that to ourselves?
33:12
Michelle: Why add that added stress?
33:14
Michelle: So those are a couple of areas where I literally look at just the entire day with clients of just like, okay, how do you move through your day?
33:20
Michelle: How is that supporting you?
33:21
Michelle: How is that taking away from your mental health, making sure that there are enough nourishing activities in our day that supports us or, or actually having more of them than.
33:33
Michelle: Activities that deplete us, because, let's be honest, there are some things that we can't give up that, you know, are not things that we love to do, So just making sure that, that your day is balanced there.
33:42
Michelle: Again, you know, different kind of mindfulness practices and, and that doesn't mean meditating necessarily.
33:48
Michelle: It could be, you know, just doing any kind of activity, fully focused, being present, slowing down.
33:55
Michelle: all of that supports us.
33:56
Kristen: I love that because it's just really that awareness and simplicity.
34:00
Kristen: So that's for us, the second piece was if you have a friend or a loved one who you suspect, or maybe you can even tell that something's going on, like what's the best way to approach support?
34:10
Kristen: You know, sometimes you feel like, Oh, I just won't say anything.
34:12
Kristen: But at the same time, if you really care and you wanna help them, it's an interesting topic to wanna be able to say the right thing, but also being scared you're gonna say the wrong thing.
34:21
Michelle: Absolutely.
34:22
Michelle: So first off, I recommend to everyone to really educate yourselves on signs and symptoms of mental health declines or mental illness.
34:31
Michelle: There's a course out there, a global course, it's called Mental Health First Aid which is basically like CPR, but for mental health.
34:39
Michelle: So it's being able to help somebody with declining mental health or in a crisis.
34:42
Michelle: So being able to identify it, help them until.
34:46
Michelle: They can get the help that they really need.
34:48
Michelle: So that's global.
34:49
Michelle: I teach it here in Canada.
34:51
Michelle: So that's one way that you'll learn the tools about how to have a conversation.
34:55
Michelle: But if you're unable to get access to that course, what I usually recommend to people is just having that conversation of you don't seem like yourself, is everything okay?
35:06
Michelle: And not making an assumption necessarily that it is a mental health challenge.
35:10
Michelle: I think often where people put up their defenses is when somebody says, You know, you don't seem okay, maybe you should see a therapist, and then immediately the person's back is up against the wall and they'll get defensive.
35:21
Michelle: They're like, No, I'm fine.
35:22
Michelle: They get upset with you.
35:24
Michelle: So we're kind of making an assumption a, that it's a mental health problem and making this recommendation that is a little bit stigmatized.
35:32
Michelle: So what I say to people is just recommend that they go to their family doctor and get checked out because the reality is there are a lot of.
35:40
Michelle: Things that could be going on that look like mental health challenges and are not.
35:45
Michelle: So a B12 deficiency could look a lot like depression, lack of energy sleeping a lot, which could affect your moods.
35:53
Michelle: Different thyroid issues could look like anxiety or depression and we don't know.
35:58
Michelle: So the doctor does.
35:59
Michelle: So even just saying, Hey, you know, you're not yourself.
36:03
Michelle: And offering to them, Can you go get checked out?
36:05
Michelle: I'll come with you if you want.
36:06
Michelle: Then they can get the full blood work that they need to rule anything else out and their doctor is trained to be able to identify if there might be some, something else going on and can make a referral or, you know, if it is meds, you know, whatever it is.
36:20
Michelle: But the doctor, Have a lot more knowledge than we will about what it actually is, and that's a lot less
36:29
Kristen: The fact that you're just saying, Look, I see things are off.
36:32
Kristen: You know, have you seen your doctor?
36:34
Kristen: Is there something I can do to help you, want me to go with you?
36:36
Kristen: That feels like it's coming from that spot of caring versus putting them, like you said, on the defense or the backs against the wall with, You should go see a therapist, Okay.
36:46
Kristen: I like that.
36:46
Kristen: That seems doable.
36:47
Kristen: You have that relationship and you wanna express that care.
36:50
Kristen: Okay, so then shifting gears a little bit back to your, because I mean, it's just such an important topic, we can't not talk about it.
36:58
Kristen: But back to the career and the non-linear path, do you have any advice for those who may be in that midlife awakening or maybe whatever stage you are where you're like, I don't know that this is what I'm supposed to be doing, Like what piece of advice do you wish you had earlier that you would've been like, Oh, I could have gotten to this point way earlier if I had just had this little nugget.
37:19
Michelle: Yeah.
37:20
Michelle: Great question.
37:21
Michelle: I think what immediately comes to mind is get a coach.
37:26
Michelle: I mean, back when I was going through it, coaching was not as well known as it is now.
37:31
Michelle: But work with a career coach or you know, any kind of a life coach, they have tools, they have exercises that can help you find that that's the one way to go following your passion, looking at what you love to do whether it's in your job or.
37:47
Michelle: In life in general, what are the activities that you love?
37:50
Michelle: This is something that I work with my clients on too, about, you know, just saying, Okay, what do you like to do in your free time?
37:56
Michelle: Maybe that's not the career, but it gives you an idea of like, if somebody enjoys creativity, it doesn't have to be limited to a hobby.
38:04
Michelle: It's something that like, okay, so here maybe a career path that is creative might be something that's more enjoyable for you.
38:11
Michelle: And just allowing the process to unfold.
38:14
Michelle: I mean, mine was a 25 year process.
38:18
Michelle: I think I needed.
38:19
Michelle: You know, every step of it.
38:21
Michelle: That's the truth.
38:22
Michelle: I have no regrets.
38:23
Michelle: And, and I tell a lot of my clients today, especially young clients that I'm working with, I'm like, okay, first off, you know, the whole notion of having one career, your entire life is so outdated, and so just get a sense of what you wanna do next and try it out.
38:38
Michelle: That's part of living life is experimenting, you know, have a sense of, okay, this is what's next.
38:44
Michelle: But it doesn't have to be, this is what I wanna do for the rest of my life.
38:47
Michelle: That just feels too big.
38:48
Michelle: And experiment.
38:49
Michelle: Try things out.
38:50
Michelle: Let yourself find out what doesn't.
38:52
Michelle: You know, the nos are just as valuable as the yeses.
38:55
Michelle: So, I have a strong no to law.
38:58
Michelle: I will never go back to that.
38:59
Michelle: I have a strong no to finance.
39:01
Michelle: We'll never go back to that.
39:02
Michelle: Learned a ton.
39:04
Michelle: You know, that I can support my clients in those industries now.
39:07
Michelle: Learned a ton about business and all of those things, but yeah, they just weren't for me.
39:12
Michelle: And, and I always say to my clients, this is my seventh career, but that doesn't mean it's over.
39:18
Michelle: If something else comes along and I'm like, Oh my gosh, that is so cool.
39:22
Michelle: I will do it Cause why not?
39:26
Kristen: Yeah.
39:26
Kristen: Well, and I love the ease of like, let it unfold and be open to it.
39:30
Kristen: Explore, have the nose, like try it and be like, Yep, that's a no.
39:34
Kristen: I'm gonna put that in the no bucket and move on.
39:36
Kristen: Because I remember thinking when you were going through the career path early on, like the things came up, which I feel like are similar for me.
39:42
Kristen: Like someone would say, Oh, why don't you try this?
39:44
Kristen: Okay, sure, I'll do it.
39:45
Kristen: And then you go and try and you're like, Yeah, it's not super exciting for me.
39:49
Kristen: But at the same time, When you were part of that coach's training program and you were on the Zoom and then everyone around you was like, Why aren't you doing this?
39:57
Kristen: Right.
39:57
Kristen: That recommendation was the right one for you, right?
40:01
Michelle: Yeah.
40:01
Michelle: And it was right at the time.
40:02
Michelle: It would not have been right 10 years earlier, you know, and the idea too is like, as I look at the common thread, so yeah, I had my degree in psychology, so I'm still very much interested in the brain.
40:12
Michelle: I'm just now using it in a different capacity.
40:16
Michelle: You know, as a coach it's not therapy.
40:18
Michelle: I'm helping people move towards goals, which you know, is much more aligned with who I am.
40:24
Michelle: And every career that I had, I've seen now it was really about helping people and being in service.
40:31
Michelle: And you know, some touched a little bit more closely than others, but there were definitely some themes there that I can look back on and see.
40:40
Michelle: Oh yeah, like.
40:41
Michelle: While maybe the industry's changed what I was doing and how I was supporting people did not change.
40:48
Michelle: So just knowing, okay, well that's a very strong value of mine.
40:52
Michelle: So that's something that I need to be doing.
40:54
Michelle: Versus, you know, somebody who maybe doesn't wanna be.
40:58
Michelle: Working with people directly is more in the creative space and independently creating art, create whatever it is, but just finding what's that sweet spot for you?
41:08
Michelle: And getting support around it too.
41:09
Michelle: You know, we don't have to go through any part of this alone.
41:12
Michelle: Whether it's somebody professionally to support you or supportive people in your life friends, family, whoever it is that can help build you up.
41:20
Michelle: And that will encourage you to like, yeah, give it a try.
41:23
Michelle: You know, and being discerning about that.
41:26
Michelle: You know, just because somebody is your best friend does not mean that they're the right person to support you in something like, you know, cuz if they're somebody who really has like a mindset of no, pick one career and stick with it.
41:37
Michelle: If you're trying all these different things, it's gonna be kind of rubbing against their values and they might project some of their fear onto you that well doesn't need to happen.
41:47
Michelle: So, yeah, choosing the people that followed a path that's similar to what you are looking for now.
41:53
Michelle: Seeing what they did, getting inspired by them,
41:56
Kristen: Yeah.
41:57
Kristen: Well with it, I have two last questions.
42:00
Kristen: So one for our listeners, and if they're feeling like their values align with yours and they wanna work with you, how can they find you?
42:08
Kristen: What's the best way to reach out?
42:09
Kristen: Or even just to further the conversation to say, Do we align?
42:11
Kristen: Would you be a good coach for me?
42:13
Kristen: How do they find you?
42:14
Michelle: So I'm all over the internet.
42:17
Michelle: I don't know, for better or for worse, But easiest ways.
42:21
Michelle: Through my website, which is MichelleAnhang.com.
42:24
Michelle: And my last name is A N H A N G.
42:26
Michelle: And I'm also on Instagram.
42:29
Michelle: I'm on Twitter, I'm on Facebook LinkedIn.
42:32
Michelle: So I'm pretty easy to find and to reach and would love to have a conversation.
42:37
Michelle: You know, if, if you're interested in working with me or if something about.
42:41
Michelle: Said today impacted you.
42:42
Michelle: I love to hear that too.
42:45
Kristen: And then one last question just for fun.
42:47
Kristen: You shared so much.
42:48
Kristen: I feel like we've learned so much about you, but one little piece we haven't touched on is if you could be a fairy tale or fictional character, who would you be and why, or whose values resonate with you?
42:58
Kristen: A
42:58
Michelle: Oh,
42:59
Kristen: into Michelle here.
43:01
Michelle: So I think the character that resonates the most with me is Wonder Woman, and I'm wondering how many times have you heard that one?
43:07
Kristen: not heard Wonder Woman yet.
43:08
Michelle: You have not.
43:10
Michelle: Okay.
43:11
Michelle: So yeah, I think there's just something about that quiet strength.
43:15
Michelle: I mean, she's got her lasso, which is super cool too, and you know, the invisible jet and all of that.
43:19
Michelle: But I feel like, she just embodies strength and empowerment and we know even like she's got the power pose that, you know, I mean, as an Amy Cudi who did a TED Talk all about that And so, yeah, I'm gonna say Wonder Woman.
43:33
Michelle: And, and it's funny cuz a couple of friends gave me as a gift, a Wonder Woman cuff that I wear at times that reminds me of like, yeah, I've been through a lot and I'm here and I'm standing strong and here to, I don't wanna say save the world, but, you know, support where I can,
43:51
Kristen: I love it.
43:52
Kristen: And who wouldn't wanna be friends and work with Wonder Woman?
43:54
Kristen: So,
43:55
Michelle: Right.
43:57
Kristen: That's amazing.
43:58
Kristen: No, Michelle, I thank you so much for sharing all of this, not only about your, you know, seven different career paths, but so much about your personal story and with your family and the mental health piece.
44:08
Kristen: So thank you so much for, for sharing all of that with us.
44:11
Kristen: We really appreciate it.
44:14
Kristen: Wow a real life Wonder Woman.
44:16
Kristen: I mean, I know we got pretty deep here today, but I thought it was fun to end on that note.
44:21
Kristen: And if Michelle can pull herself back up from that winding journey and still resonate with wonder woman, there is hope for all of us, right?
44:30
Kristen: So.
44:31
Kristen: Some of my key takeaways today were 1) when you're doing what you think you should for everyone else, you're really not able to be your true self.
44:38
Kristen: You have to stop SHOULDing on yourself.
44:39
Kristen: 2)self-reflection.
44:42
Kristen: Sometimes we need to take a good, hard look at the facts to figure out if and what parts of the issues you're experiencing are a fact in your control.
44:50
Kristen: 3) the notion of having one career or path is outdated.
44:54
Kristen: Live your life and try new things.
44:56
Kristen: The no's are just as valuable as the yeses.
44:59
Kristen: That last one is music to my ears.
45:01
Kristen: I mean, that's what we're all about here on build your own fairytale.
45:03
Kristen: Right?
45:04
Kristen: Importantly, if you or someone, you know, is struggling.
45:07
Kristen: Please reach out and get support.
45:09
Kristen: I hope you'll take away From today's episode that prioritizing that mental health and getting the support you need is a critical step.
45:17
Kristen: So if something Michelle said or shared today resonated Please reach out to her, let her know all of her contact information is in the show notes.
45:24
Kristen: If you know, someone who may benefit from hearing the episode, please send it to a friend screenshot at posted on social media.
45:29
Kristen: Tag me.
45:30
Kristen: You can also leave a rating or review and subscribe to the show.
45:32
Kristen: These are all super important ways.
45:34
Kristen: They help others find us and start building their fairytales with us.
45:38
Kristen: Thank you again for being here.
45:40
Kristen: I'm not giving up on my dreams and I hope you won't either.
45:43
Kristen: I'm Kristen Lettini and this is Build Your Own Fairytale.