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Second-Career Ministry: At the Canadian Baptist Historical Society · Called to Serve

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Hello and welcome. This is called To Serve, a
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podcast where we share stories from women who have been
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ordained by the Canadian Baptists of Atlantic Canada.
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We have spoken with over 100 pastors, chaplains,
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missionaries, and community leaders as we learn what it's
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like to be a woman in a ministry.
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If you haven't heard Called to Serve, the book is out.
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This book tells 14 powerful stories of Canadian Baptist
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women who served in ministry from the 1970s to the present.
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There are questions for discussion or reflection at the
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end of each chapter, designed to make this a resource that you
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can either read on your own or work through with a small group
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or book club. You should also know that all
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royalties our team receives from the book are going towards a
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scholarship fund for female students at Acadia Divinity
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College, and we are already hearing from readers that these
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short stories are easy to read but page turners.
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So grab yourself a refreshing summer read and know that you're
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supporting women in ministry at the same time.
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You can find Called to Serve on Amazon and other stores, so just
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head to our website Called to serve.ca to check it out.
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Today we'll be sharing a recent presentation that some of our
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team gave with the Canadian Baptist Historical Society in
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Toronto. Doctor Melody Maxwell, an MA
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student Joetta Fernando, shared their paper answering the call
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Baptist Women in Second Career Ministry.
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You may not be aware that part of the Called to Serve project
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includes creating published papers and sharing our research
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findings with scholars who study religion and history.
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The stories we've gathered through Called to Serve are now
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primary sources that can help shape research on ministry in
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the future. We've shared a few of our papers
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and presentations in previous episodes, discussing the
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experiences of women in ministry, with education, and
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with feminism, among other topics.
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But today, listen to Doctor Maxwell and Joetta Fernando
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share their research on the dynamics of Baptist women who
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pursue ministry later in life as a second career.
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While Baptist women have been involved in local church
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ministry in Atlantic Canada since the 1700s, the first woman
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was not ordained as a minister by an Atlantic Baptist Church
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until 1954. Like Baptists in other parts of
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Canada in the early 20th century, many Atlantic Baptists
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believe that the Bible prohibited women from pastoral
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ministry. Attitudes and interpretations
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gradually began to change in the mid 20th century, however,
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spurred on by the rise of the second wave of feminism.
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Our study, called To Serve, begins in 1976, the date of
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ordination for the 1st 2 Atlantic Baptist women in
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ministry who were still available for interviews.
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It continues until 2024 and includes oral histories of
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around 100 women. As we began to analyze these
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women's stories, we noticed that many of the women we interviewed
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were ordained to ministry as a second career or after age 40.
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Several women in our study had previously served in fields as
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diverse as education, healthcare, retail, and
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technology. Others had dedicated their time
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to nurturing their young families, only beginning to work
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outside the home after their children had grown older.
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As Zickman, Lummus, and Chang demonstrate, women have a higher
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age average age at the time of their decision to become
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ordained than do men. Our paper explores this
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phenomenon as it relates to the participants in Called to Serve.
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While we affirmed that the women in our study felt a divine
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calling to ministry, we also acknowledged that sociological
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factors influenced their recognition of that call.
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Thus, we first analyzed the influence of family
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responsibilities on woman's vocational paths.
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We then examine the lack of female role models for some
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ordained Baptist women, recognizing the individual's
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imaginations of how ministry might look are shaped by the
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examples they see in their own contexts.
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Finally, we explore the influence of the women's first
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careers on their ministry vocations.
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We demonstrate that all of these factors shaped the women's
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understanding of their calls to ordained ministry.
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So, beginning with family responsibilities, most women in
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Atlantic Canada in the late 20th and early 21st centuries were
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expected to assume the primary responsibility for their
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families care. As Catherine A Broils notes in
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her dissertation about women in Second Career Ministry, one of
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the stereotypes women in leadership press against is the
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view that their primary vocation should be the care of the home
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and family. Many women in our study were
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busy with commitments to their nuclear or extended families and
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were not able to fully live into or at times recognize their
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ministry callings. Several women we interviewed did
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not enter ministry until after their children were adults.
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Artis Ashe resigned from working in special education to enter
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ministry when her children were grown.
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Pretty good, as she put it. Joyce Ross described feeling
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called to ministry early in life.
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But the call didn't materialize at that point, she said, perhaps
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because of her gender. After her children had grown up,
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she had retired and her husband had passed away, Ross decided to
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earn a diploma in prison ministry.
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Barbara Derling felt a lifelong inclination to help people and
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recognized signs of a ministry calling by 12 years old.
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Yet she was 60 years old before she began pursuing that call at
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Acadia Divinity College. And June Ketty reflected on her
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busy life as a mother, Saying All those years I was raising my
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family. We had three children and I was
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a stay at home mother, so I didn't hear a call to ministry.
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If God was talking to me, I wasn't listening.
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Family responsibilities kept some women from pursuing their
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calls to ministry until they were middle-aged or older.
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Those who answered the call at a younger age often encountered
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challenges in balancing ministry and family.
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A 2006 study of US Episcopal clergy discussed deeply
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inscribed role expectations, which women come to occupy
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through role taking within the family as a source of inequality
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for female clergy. Indeed, women's second shift and
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emotional labor at home often proved difficult for the women
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we interviewed. Kathy Neely understood this
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challenge as she gave birth to three children in four years.
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Rather than attempting to juggle numerous responsibilities of
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work and family, she chose to resign from her ministry role
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and take 10 years to raise her children.
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Later, she resumed work on a part time basis.
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Elizabeth Lagasse found that serving part time with the
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governmental agency Family and Children's Services provided
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flexibility for her young family.
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She and her husband did not both serve in pastoral ministry roles
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until their children were older. Her husband also cooked most
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meals for their family, demonstrating how non
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traditional family roles allowed her to balance work and home.
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Family responsibilities also often slowed the course of
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women's seminary education, a necessary step before ordination
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among Atlantic Baptist. Angela Wade recalled a time when
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our son got really sick and was in the hospital.
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I was just taking a couple courses at that time and God
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spoke to say Angela, I want you to push a pause button on this
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education because it's not going to go anywhere and just continue
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being involved in ministry. I was working full time, trying
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to do courses part time and then being a full time mom, wife.
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And I recognized at that time that I wasn't going to do
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everything and get done what I thought I should get done.
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Using language of divine guidance that was common among
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Canadian evangelicals, Wade discerned God telling her to
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slow her studies, which were necessary for ordination, in
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order to fulfill her family responsibilities.
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Other women also took slower paths to ordination than did
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their male colleagues because of family commitments of her
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education, Carolyn Steves noted. It took me 7 years.
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I'm raising a family. I'm working part time as a
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campus pastor. I'm trying to get my theological
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studies completed, So seven years.
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While Steve's took advantage of flexible coursework without
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travelling to the Acadia campus, she found the added workload
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challenging. Whether they were married or
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single, some women in our study also assumed a significant role
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in caring for extended family members, at times delaying their
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education, Andrea Anderson recalled.
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I remember when I started at Acadia, my mom was sick with
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cancer and she lived with me. So I stopped taking courses at
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that time because it was challenging to do work, school
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and care for my mom, and my dad moved in with me.
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Also, expectations of women serving as caretakers for family
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members caused several of our study participants to delay
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their own preparation for ordained ministry.
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The National Study on Women in Canadian Evangelical Churches
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demonstrated that women's participation in Canadian
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evangelical churches is formed by theological convictions and
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congregational culture, suggesting that imagination
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itself is formed in community through patterns of visibility
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and invitation, as well as by exclusion.
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Kathleen Steve's dissertation examining Canadian women in
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ministry reinforces that many women entered ministry as a
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second career. Steve states that when initially
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choosing a career path as a younger woman, pastoral ministry
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had not appeared to be a viable option for them as their
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denominations either did not ordain women at that time or
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they did not see any women doing this job in their churches.
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Call to Serve mirrors these findings.
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We observed that women frequently stressed the
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importance of female role models.
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Seeing women in ministry often stirred their own imaginations,
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and a lack of role models delayed a recognition of their
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calling until later in life. Sarah Scott recalled at her
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church modeled women in ministry in a way that presented to me
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that that was normal. Kimberly Beers similarly
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reflected that because she knew other women who had already got
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into ministry, the gender idea didn't really play much of A
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part when she herself felt called, Beers recalled.
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I knew that ministry was going to be where I was going from a
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young age. Women who grew up with role
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models in ministry found that the role models made leadership
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appear ordinary and possible. Women we interviewed who lacked
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female pastoral models often struggled to imagine the shape
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the calling might take. Barbara Durling recalls that she
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simply did not imagine herself as an ordained leader in
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ministry, she shared All those years, I never expected to be a
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pastor because I had heard that women, and especially divorced
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women, are not allowed to be pastors.
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Never having seen someone she could relate to, Durling's
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imagination was limited. She did not begin her journey in
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education to ordination until she was 60 years old.
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Liz Johnson recalls her experience growing up in the
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Catholic Church and the influence it played when she
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joined the Baptist Church and felt her calling.
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I started teaching Sunday school and I don't think I really had a
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call to move on because it wasn't something that was part
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of my Catholic heritage. Priests were men, women were not
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part of that. Johnson's understanding of
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gendered leadership roles was limited by her lack of female
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role models. Accepting the possibility of her
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calling expanding beyond the Sunday school room began when
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Johnson was 50 years old and started to work towards her
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ordination, Sandra Sutherland recalled when she first imagined
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serving the church. The role available to her
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imagination was Pastor's wife, Sutherland shared.
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Now when I look back on that, I realized that that was the other
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role model that I'd seen for women who had loved and served
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the church, and so it became the desire of my heart to become a
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pastor's wife. A lack of role models in
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addition to her family responsibilities, delayed
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Sutherland from the beginning to pursue ordination until her 50s.
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These examples demonstrate that what women see embodied in
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church life influences what they understand and imagine to be
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vocationally possible. Research beyond Atlantic Canada
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provides understandings to these lived experiences.
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Benjamin Knoll and Cami Joe Bolin's research argues that
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role models are especially important for girls and younger
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women because female role models can boost confidence and
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leadership skills. Several of our interviewees from
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Call to Serve confirm this reality from their experiences
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describing women who influence their own understandings of
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their call. Barbara Cochran recalled getting
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to know a woman serving at a Christian camp as a young girl.
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Sharing it made me for the first time wonder if I could be a
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woman in ministry. Cochran's imagination about her
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calling was broadened through this experience.
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Similarly, Kayla Colford stated. I think one of the primary
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influences I've had is Sarah Scott.
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She was the first female leader in ministry that I encountered
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where it kind of made me think, huh, OK, I can do this too, then
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it's OK. Colford was able to imagine
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herself serving in ministry after seeing Scott's leadership.
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Scott herself shared. Looking up to Carolyn King,
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another ordained Baptist woman. Scott said, watching her from a
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distance in taking one step away from pastoral focus and more on
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counseling. That was an idea I never really
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saw and played in my own church. And so to see that as a
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possibility and a role, and then going to clinical pastoral
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education and seeing the women who are clinical leaders, that
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made a difference for me. Scott became aware of new
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possibilities for her own ministry through watching King
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and other women in leadership roles.
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Throughout our study, younger interviewees frequently
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mentioned the names of older interviewees who had served as
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role models and mentors for them.
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Role models shaped women's imaginations and LED to 1st
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careers in ministry. Women's imaginations were shaped
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not only by who they saw, but whether they themselves were
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seen and encouraged. For women stepping into ministry
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as a second career, this was significant.
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When no female role models were visible, ministry was often
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delayed. And when women encountered
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strong female role models, they were better able to imagine
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ministry as a possibility. Role models helped create the
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imaginative conditions under which women could first
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recognize ministry as a faithful calling.
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For many ordained women interviewed for Call to Serve,
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ministry emerged not as a first profession, but as a second
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career. Women often entered ministry
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after developing professional identities and competencies in
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other fields. Steve similarly found that the
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majority of women in her Canadian study came to pastoral
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ministry as a second career. Treating this as a central
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feature of how many women experience their calling, she
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posits that ministry is not disconnected from earlier work
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but grows out of it. Steve's research demonstrates
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that prior experience was often reinterpreted as ministry
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preparation and in some instances, as ministry itself.
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Earlier careers equipped women with interpersonal skills,
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administrative confidence, and a sense of responsibility that
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later enriched ministry. Steve's research demonstrated
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that first careers were not discarded once women entered
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ministry. Rather, they became a part of a
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woman's understanding, preparation, and call into
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ministry. Women frequently came to
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understand that they had been formed long before they could
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name the destination of that formation.
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Our call to serve interviews mirror this pattern.
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Andrea Anderson explicitly describes the continuity between
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her first career as deputy minister and Christian ministry.
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Anderson reflected. I saw my workplace as my mission
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field, as my place of ministry. She further explained that she
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had not known anyone who experienced by vocational
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ministry. I think that was part of God's
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plan because I was able to have the impact that I had in the
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workplace. In Anderson's case, her first
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career and ministry were connected.
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The workplace itself became a site of Christian leadership,
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witness and pastoral formation. Anderson also articulated the
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reciprocal movement between workplace and ministry,
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reflecting on our theological education, she stated.
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I took some of the principles I learned and started applying
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them in the workplace, but there were some things in the
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workplace that I could also transfer over to ministry.
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She then recounts as telling moment when one of her workplace
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leaders, who later attended her commissioning service, said, You
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know what? I can't help but notice there's
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been a tremendous growth in your ability to lead ministry.
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Education shaped workplace leadership, and workplace
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leadership shaped ministry. Rather than separating secular
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and sacred vocations, Anderson's experience suggests that second
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career ministry often emerges through an ongoing exchange
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between the two. Elizabeth Johnson's offers a
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similar example of her first career's influence, reflecting
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on our years of work and family caregiving before chaplaincy,
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she recalled. I worked with challenged,
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trainable children for many years.
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When you look back with chaplaincy and the elderly, that
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was so helpful because it was wheelchairs, it was helping
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people stand, it was working with people that had mental
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issues. My mother and my stepfather both
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had Alzheimer's, so that was something else that I was
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dealing with before. I really wasn't a chaplaincy.
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I just look at all those things and realize that I was being
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educated before I knew I was being educated for what my call
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was. Johnson's reflection mirrors
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Steve's argument. A first career and the wider
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shape of 1's earlier life become clear in retrospect as a form of
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preparation for ministry. Other Call to serve interviews
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pointed the same direction. Erica Corbin's first career in
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ministry followed this pattern as she discerned her calling
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more and more. That's when I started to be
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like, OK, maybe this is God prompting me in that direction.
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And the more I thought about it, I was like, OK, it's kind of
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perfect. It takes everything.
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I understand the military side. That was my introduction to
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adult life was into the military.
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So I understand the culture. I understand how to interact.
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The more I thought about what chaplaincy within the Canadian
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Armed Forces was like, the more it fit.
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Such examples show that first careers provide women with
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concrete competencies in organization, conflict
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management, care and communication.
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These skills gave second career women both confidence and
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effectiveness in their ministry. The oral histories gathered by
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Call to Serve suggest that a woman's first career influenced
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her second career in at least two ways.
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It provided transferable skills that could be carried directly
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into ministerial practice, and it became a part of the
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narrative to which women later understood God's preparation and
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call For second career women. Earlier work was not simply
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something that happened before ministry.
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It was often one of the ways women were equipped and formed
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for ministry that they would one day name and step into.
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As this paper demonstrates, Atlantic Baptist women's paths
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to ministry were not always direct.
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Most women in our study, which focuses on women ordained
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between 1976 and 2024, were ordained in midlife or later and
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undertook ministry as a second career.
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In fact, more women in their 60s and 70s were ordained during the
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later decades we've studied than in earlier years, perhaps as a
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result of more acceptance of women in ordained ministry in
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the early 21st century than in the late 20th century.
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What factors led to the prevalence of second career
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ministry among ordained Baptist women?
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Some women in our study assumed heavy family responsibilities as
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young adults, precluding them from paid ministry roles.
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Because of family commitments, some women also undertook part
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time studies over a number of years to fulfill a requirement
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before ordination. Without female role models, some
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women initially had difficulty imagining themselves in ministry
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and pursued other vocations. Their earlier careers and life
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experiences proved influential in equipping the women for their
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eventual work as ordained ministers.
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While their churches might have missed out on the full range of
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their giftedness during their earlier years, these women
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served with experience and wisdom during midlife and
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beyond. Thank you to Doctor Maxwell and
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to Joetta for their ongoing research efforts.
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You can find upcoming presentations and conferences
20:16
we'll be attending on our website at Called to serve.ca.
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You can also follow us on Facebook and Instagram.
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And don't forget to check out the book on Amazon or our
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website. We'll be back in a few weeks
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with another woman's story of being called to serve.