Latest / Online Business Uncovered: Simple Strategies for Female Entrepreneurs / 192: Why you’re struggling to sell (even when you’re brilliant at what you do!)

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192: Why you’re struggling to sell (even when you’re brilliant at what you do!) · Online Business Uncovered: Simple Strategies for Female Entrepreneurs

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Online Business Uncovered.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is episode 192, and in today's episode, we're going to be talking about why you're struggling to sell even though you are brilliant at what you do.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: So let's jump right in and let's get started.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Online Business Uncovered, the show that lifts the lid on what it really takes to turn your brilliance into digital products, passive income, and time freedom.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host Karen, an online business strategist, course creation expert, and your go-to for building a business that works for you and not the other way around.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you are an ambitious entrepreneur feeling overwhelmed, burnt out, or maybe you're just ready for a smarter, more sustainable way to grow, then you're in the right place.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because each week I'll be bringing you inspiring conversations, practical strategies, and step-by-step guidance to help you create sustainable, repeatable digital products that sell even while you're sleeping.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're ready to stop trading your time for money, reclaim your time, and finally build a business that gives you the freedom that you deserve, hit subscribe and tune in every Thursday.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's uncover what's truly possible for you starting now.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to another episode of Online Business Uncovered.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host Karen and I really do appreciate you hitting that play button to listen to today's episode.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So today is the last episode in the Summit Speaker Series, and I am finishing on a high.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because today we're going to be talking about something that I think every business owner needs to be able to do in order to grow their business, and that is to sell.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what better way to finish the conversation around the summit than to talk about selling?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think so many people feel uncomfortable about selling.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: They worry about being pushy and sometimes take rejection personally.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And even though they are brilliant at what they do, actually asking somebody to buy from them can feel really difficult.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So today I am joined by sales trainer Steve Bryson to explore why so many brilliant business owners struggle to sell, and more importantly, how we can start to think about sales differently.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you know that you are good at what you do, but maybe you wish you felt more confident when it comes to actually selling, then this episode is going to be perfect for you.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So let's dive into today's conversation because it's absolutely brilliant.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by another incredible expert who's going to be joining us for this year's online business growth summit.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, throughout this special series, I'm chatting with all of my speakers to give you a sneak peek into the knowledge that they're going to be sharing and more importantly to help you discover practical ways to build a business that gives you more income, more freedom, and less reliance on selling your time.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's dive into today's episode.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And today I've got Steve Briggson, who is a sales trainer, and um we're going to be talking about sales, which funnily enough I quite enjoy.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um Steve, welcome.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I am, aren't I?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you want to start by just letting the uh listeners know who you are, what you do, and how you help um your audience?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So um I'm a sort of sales trainer.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: I've been involved in sales now for uh 31 years, something like that.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like a lifetime.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I also sort of help people with their businesses and that side of things, but it's all around business growth and sales forms a massive part of that.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: So my background really was sort of I essentially brought up in the sales world and then ended up becoming a managing director of business to help people run businesses.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's kind of my my real passion, and uh it's about sort of giving people the confidence in sales because a lot of people uh uh particularly in the small business world, they they struggle.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: The sales thing is the thing that they hate, the sales thing is the thing that generally speaking, people sit there and go, oh why do I have to do this sales thing?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be pushy, I don't like objections, I don't like this, I don't like that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: And my my whole philosophy is about reframing the mindsets of actually take sales away from being this odious thing that you have to do to actually being something that's quite fulfilling and quite enjoying quite enjoyable.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I it's interesting with sales, isn't it?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because we need to make them in order to be able to have a business, but it is the thing I think that probably many people struggle with.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I think that's because of the whole idea of the the icky salesman.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like nobody wants to be that person that that feels like they're forcing somebody to buy something, and so instantly I think it's it's in their minds, isn't it?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't want to be like that, so therefore sales in order to kind of get a sale means that I've got to be that person to be able to make money.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's very much a case of a lot of people uh people have this fear of being pushy.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: So people don't like being sold to, first off.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't like being sold to, I don't want to do the selling.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: People don't want to come across as pushy, people fear the rejection, so they fear the word no.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they they they just have this kind of almost like this this mental block where sales is concerned, and actually it's that whole thing that really it's easy to do if you have the right sort of conversations, if you're speaking to the right people.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be pushy, you don't have to be this this um 1980s double-glazing salesperson that won't leave your living room until two o'clock in the morning, and you have to be that individual.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people feel that that's what sales is, and it it actually really isn't.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Sales is just a conversation with somebody about you're trying to help them, and when you have that mindset, all of a sudden it becomes it comes it becomes a different, a different beast, um, you know, and and you cannot sell in the in the modern day and age, you cannot be a pushy salesperson and get people to buy something that they don't want because the consumer is so much more savvy than they used to be back in the day.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that's the thing that people that people have this preconceived idea that a salesperson is just somebody who's gonna be push, push, push, push, push, and it gives people that that whole icky feeling and and everything.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's yeah, it's interesting because I think people sell without realizing, but the moment you kind of put a spotlight on the whole concept of selling, yeah, you know, it that that's when they start to feel uncomfortable.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: But they're they're most likely selling because they're they're having conversations and they are talking to the people they need what they have, and it's it's it's just really interesting, isn't it?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because we we put the whole sort of thing of selling, but but really as service providers, cons consultants, coaches, whatever we do, we're problem solvers.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to be able to solve people's problems, we have to give them a solution.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, we need to get what we have in uh to the hands of the people that need it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think of it like that, it it's it's well, yeah, that that's why I do what I do, so I can help more people.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the moment you sort of say that's sales, it's like, oh, I just now I feel really uncomfortable.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's the whole shivery feeling.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're absolutely right.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: When when you're selling to somebody, if you what you have to do is you have to find out what their need is, you have to find out what their problem is, and if you can help them solve that problem.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I say sales is just helping people, because you're helping someone resolve a problem.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now, whether that problem is learning how to sell, whether that problem is learning how to build an online course and then sell that online course, all you're doing is you're helping that individual get from where they want to be, where they are currently to where they want to be, because you've identified where that problem is, and that's the skill with sales.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's sales the skill in sales is conversation and conversational.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I say this to people all the time: we sell ourselves on a daily basis, we sell ourselves personally on a daily basis.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that situation where you might go to the pub with a group of friends, and then there's a new person that comes into the group, and you might like that new person, and you think, Oh, do you know what?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get to know them a bit better.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: You sell your personality to that individual, but we don't call it selling our personality, we call it building a relationship, and that's the thing, and it's no different to doing that because you what you do is you get to know that person, you ask them a load of questions, you build a rapport, you build a relationship with them, and everything.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's what sales is.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: But the minute you put that word sales in front of the word conversation, that's when people start to almost retract and think, oh yeah, but I'm not a salesperson, I can't sell.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, we all sell, we all sell ourselves daily, but people don't think of it that way.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: The whole kind of uh thought process behind selling, especially with things like online courses.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um often, because because I think I mean, I I have conversations with people where they're like, I'm not selling my online course, and then I see them at networking, and then they'll stand up and they'll be like, Why my online course?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's not what they're selling.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think first and foremost, it's understanding the thing that you're selling.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and the the course itself, but just using that as an example, is the vehicle.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's the vehicle that you're gonna deliver your your solution on.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing that somebody's buying is the framework because it's the framework that holds the value, because the it's the framework that gets them to that solution.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think understanding what you're selling and and what holds the value and how valuable it is to the uh the class, uh, the client, the student, the member, whoever you're selling to, I think is really important.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's sometimes where work needs to be done.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think sometimes people think people are buying the online course, but they're not buying the online course, they're buying the framework that gets in the solution, you know.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's kind of doing that work around it so that when you write your message in, your messaging reflects the value of actually what you're selling.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's very, very true.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: One of the I did a I was I'm working with the client at the moment and I did um I did a really, really simple exercise with him, and it was actually using this pen.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Sell me the pen.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So he sat there in it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, right, okay, so it's lovely, it's a really nice colour, it's an orange pen.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's got this lovely little rubber bit of the back where you can use it for your mobile phone, and it's got a little clip on it that you can do that, and it's when you write with it, it's a black pen and everything else, and uh and it's got a logo on it, and and I went, okay, okay.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Let me show you how to sell the pen.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And he went, okay.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, Give me the pen a minute.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: So he gave me the pen.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Right, write this down.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, um, I said, Do you want to buy a pen?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he went because you established a need.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and he he went, Oh, I see what you did there.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, You want to write something down, you have a problem.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can't write it down because you don't have a pen.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: However, I have a pen for sale.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to buy the pen?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it it's a really, really simple exercise to do with people, but what it does is it highlights that you establish a need for it, and then it's it's again another question I say to people, what do you think opticians sell?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um well, they sell glasses, don't they?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: I know they don't, they sell vision.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing, and it it's really understanding what people are actually selling.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And to your point, people aren't buying the online course, they're buying the framework that leads to the solution.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that ultimately what they're doing is they're buying the solution, and that framework, the online course is the framework that takes them there, but they're buying a solution to a problem, and that is the simple fact.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: And one people when people realize that and they realize what what the problem is that people are actually trying to solve, that's where that's where sales starts to become much, much easier.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's a simple principle, a simple principle.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think um it it's interesting, isn't it, with messaging?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because your messaging is your sales, so it's making sure that you're you've got the right message, landing with the right audience for the right need.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, like we sort of said, it's it's understanding what that need is, and I think when you start to really understand your audience and really understand what they're struggling with and how you can help, and then what you have that's gonna help them, it starts to become easier.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes is the thing that maybe people skip over is really spending the time to understand the people that they actually want to support and really want to serve.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm not talking at light level, you know, somebody needs, you know, a pay, it's understandable what's going on in their world because not everybody's ready to buy.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So then understanding that buyer's journey as well, and whether they're aware of a problem.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're trying to sell something to somebody that has no awareness to the fact that they've got a problem in the first place, then you've got a problem trying to sell something to somebody that doesn't understand they've got a problem.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just that I think it's understanding that kind of context, and I think that's where it can throw people off because immediately they'll they might go to a place of you need to buy this because this is what you need.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: But if they don't know they need it, how do you get them into a buying state when they're unaware they've even got a problem, then needs that solution?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I it's just into it because I sometimes see things and it's like it talks more about the solution, but it doesn't recognise the problem.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So even if the thing that they're selling is absolutely what they need, if they're not aware of it, the buyer isn't aware of the fact that they need it, that could sometimes um affect the sales as well.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sales?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the thing is that what you have to do is you have to be in a position where you can recognize the problems and the challenges that people have.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, again, what I talk about within sales is I talk about you have the problem.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that might be a superficial problem, but you have a problem, then you have something called I call the pain.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the pain is the driver to that problem.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, let's let's say somebody has cash flow problems, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they're, you know, they they've got cash flow problems with their business.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Something else that I deal with, I help people with the business and organise the business or whatever.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: So somebody comes to me and says, I've got a cash flow problem.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's great, you've got a cash flow problem, but what does that actually mean?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: All it tells me is you don't have enough cash at the end of the month to cover all your bills.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: What it actually means is that person can't pay their suppliers or they're struggling to pay their suppliers, they're getting into arrears with people, um, they've got uh they might be able to not be able to pay their staff, which causes them a real headache.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: It might be that they're not able to pay themselves, it might be that they're not able to cover their mortgage that month, it might be they're not able to cover the school fees.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden you're getting through to a whole different level of personal issues that that's causing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: When you start talking in that level, people are like, oh right, okay, yeah, I really, really understand what my pain actually really is now.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: But again, you can't sell somebody who doesn't recognise that they have a need for something.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're talking to that person, the way you get them to recognize there's a need is through questions, and it's asking question after question after question after question, and actually really delving down into what that problem is.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's a great technique, I don't know if you've ever used it, it can be quite irritating, actually.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: But you it's called the five wise, and um it's a fun technique to to practice with somebody.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: When I do it with people, I always caveat it with right, I'm gonna do a technique on you now called the five wives.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna find it really irritating, but actually it's gonna get to a realveling of an onion.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically, yeah, it's just exactly that, and it's getting it's it's peeling off the layers of the onion, and when they answer a question, you go, Why?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Why is that?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then you just keep repeating it, and then they sit there, and if they're willing to go along with it, all of a sudden what happens is it really, really delves deep down.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, once you get into the the kind of like the fourth and the fifth why, they're really racking their brains, but but they're really sort of like delving down, and and actually it's a really fantastic exercise.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And the great thing about what the word why is it's an open-ended question, so you can't answer it a yes or a no, and actually it's just that whole that whole principle.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's it's you know, it's it's giving people techniques like this that they can use and that they can they can get to understand stuff, but absolutely if unless somebody understands what problem they need solving, they're not gonna be ready to buy, but they have to recognise that there's a problem there, and the skill as a a skilled salesperson will bring and draw that problem out of them to the point where they recognise that that's there.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they do it, you like I say, you do it through QA, you do it through asking questions, asking questions and and really digging deeper.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting when I um deliver webinars and I'll get to the end, and and obviously I've given um sort of the training, and then I'll be leading them somewhere, and then at the end there'll be a QA.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the QA bit because the insights and it and it's never a no, whatever whatever I'm selling, it's never a no, but it but it but often questions will be asked, which will be it's almost like reframing or dismantling maybe beliefs or stories that they've told themselves.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you so you have to go through that piece so that they're not necessarily if they're asking a question.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So something I get asked a lot.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if I give a deliver a webinar and I'll be opening up to my membership, for example, um, you know, somebody will say to me, they'll they'll talk about website, I haven't got my website up, so they'll ask me about website.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not that they're saying I don't want to build my course or whatever because I I haven't got my website, it's it's almost a question that they need answering so that they can dismantle the belief that they're holding around, I need a website to be able to have an online course.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're talking about those questions, those questions I find are really important because that's when you get to reframe and give them a different perspective.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and if you're not allowing yourself that opportunity that opportunity to do that, then you're not able to kind of be able to, you know, to to be able to give give your audience what they need to be able to make conscious decisions around where they're at.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I like you know, we talk about sales.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I really enjoy selling at, you know, through webinars, because by the end of that journey, you know, 30, 40 minutes, dismantling those beliefs.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So then those questions that come are just oh, okay, I've got a question about this.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: You answer the question, okay, yeah, I get it now.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course, I'll I'll do whatever you want, I'll sign up to whatever you want.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: But those questions are so important.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: They really, really are.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and there's also there's also when I I because I do a lot of the a lot of the sales training I do, I do online.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I've got a sales training course that I'm I'm running, uh, of written and running and and everything else.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's it's basically called Win More Clients.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's all about sales confidence.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: But the whole the whole thing is when I'm doing that and I'm delivering that, I'm constantly asking questions.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Got any questions?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Ask me any questions you want to ask.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, you need to understand what knowledge the the knowledge that people have got, but also when they ask those questions, it gives you a little bit of an insight.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also something I I say to everybody, there is no such thing as a stupid question.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because actually, if you don't know the answer to something, then it's uh then it's a valid question.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, again, when you're selling you don't know the answer to what's going on in that person's life, you don't know what's affecting them, whether it's uh a business issue, whether it's a personal issue, what regardless of what you're selling, you do not know what's going on.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to ask those questions.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then they're not stupid questions, those questions are important because that that questions are giving those questions giving you information about what's going on in that life.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing I will say to people as well don't interrupt with someone, you know, don't fill the silence.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: So if you ask if I are if I was to ask you a question and then you're sitting there, Karen, and you're kind of processing what I've asked you, and then I start to fill in, you know, because I'm I'm a bit uncomfortable in the silence.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: What I've then done is I've taken your processing time away from you and I've distracted you from answering that really important question I asked you a minute ago because I'm sat uncomfortable with the time that you're that that you're you're sat there and actually that's something that I think is a real it's a real skill and I say to everybody with sales with within on the sales side of things sales is a um it you've got to be comfortable sat in the silence silence is your salesperson's best friend and I think that's something that that too many people don't necessarily uh accept or listen to yeah so uh you know you have to be comfortable and sit in that silence if you ask a question wait for the answer don't interrupt don't don't distract that person's train of thought yeah absolutely I also think it's about not putting emotional ties on the outcome because I think that can happen a lot I mean I've had many a conversation with with um sort of of um sort of business colleagues and that where they've done something like delivered a a webinar whatever and um it's not necessarily given them the results that they were hoping for and then there's that emotional attachment and then but whatever but but but it may be there's a delayed response to to the results that come through um because I I see that you know if somebody doesn't buy it's because of me.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody doesn't buy it's because they don't like me they don't they don't trust me they don't think I'm expert enough and it's so easy to do that isn't it whereas like you've just said it could just be because they've got so many other things going on in their life and it's not necessarily no but it could just be that it's not right now because there's other things that need to happen first.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes absolutely and I think again when you when you look at that logically um you have that you have that word no that that sort of impacts into uh your daily life or or whatever that might look like and someone will say well they they take it as a rejection or or something along those sorts of lines and it's very difficult again when you're producing stuff like online courses you you you know yourself you put your heart and your soul into producing these things you put all of your thought process into it you put a lot of time and effort goes into building something and actually it can feel personal but you have to detach yourself emotionally from from these sorts of things um when somebody when you're selling something if you're selling a product or a service to somebody you have to detach yourself emotionally from that product or certain from from from that that conversation one of the great things my um my youngest he's he runs his own business he runs a commercial finance business honestly he's a fantastic salesperson absolutely brilliant salesperson he's much better at it than I ever I've ever ever been or ever hoped to be but anyway he he loves a no he he thrives on a no because he says that every time I get a no it means I'm close to my next yes and that's a mindset thing that is actually a mindset thing because actually you know most people sit there and go God if I get two or three no's on the bounce that's it I'm gonna hang the phone up and everything else and he's it he it's almost like that whole thing of of the way he the way he looks at it it's yeah it's just one of those things he doesn't take it personally he doesn't take anything that happens within within the sales conversations that he has with people personally he just cracks on gets on with it and and and deals with it and I think that's something that so many people really really struggle with because they have put particularly in small business world you put your heart your soul your emotion into something and that no does feel very personal but it's not personal it's just that the timing isn't right.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're having the right sort of conversation with somebody you can find out why the timing isn't right and you can find out when the timing is going to be right and you can have that conversation as well um so it's yeah it's very much about having the right conversation at the right time and the stars have to align for it to work with somebody but don't take sales personally don't take the nose personally yeah absolutely like you say as a as sort of a small business owner every sale matters doesn't it um and and not just because of the income because it's a validation as well I think I think that tends to very good point yeah you know if if I get a load of no's it means that I can't possibly be good at what what it is that I'm doing.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: When like you say actually in order to get a yes it needs to be the right offer to the right person at the right time um with a with the right outcome that they need at that point.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think of it like that it's like yeah actually there's there's quite a lot of things that need to be in alignment to be able to kind of get the result I want um and that's where we can do the bet you know the work our side on the on the business owner side is to really understand the audience really understand the pain points and the problems that the audience is struggling with and be really um really certain about the results that you deliver and the transformation it offers as well because I sometimes feel that can be missing I do this and he does this and then it's like well you know but do you understand the transformation that that's really having on that person?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well you know give them a bit of confidence of going no no no you know it's a game changer it will change that you know it's trying to go to that like literally what is the value they're buying and how is that going to play out and then that feeds into the messaging and everything else.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So so when you think about it just that one line of getting it all sort of aligned you know there is work to be done and it's making sure that that you know you you've got the right things in the right place at the right time.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then almost being the the the scientist with it as well.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you know and I know that sort of is more on the marketing side but but that's where the detachment comes in where you can start to take your ideas and and and like you say learn these sales strategies and then kind of test them and if it doesn't work it's like right okay I've tried that I'm gonna park that I'm gonna try this and and kind of get in a little bit you know have it having a having a play with it almost you know try test refine you know kind of taking that sort of approach it's a big thing in sales um obviously marketers use numbers right they they they're guided by numbers um and a a very wise man once said to me you can uh basically if you can if you don't measure it you can't manage it right yeah and it it's a really really good statement and it's one that I kind of I talk to all of my clients whether it's a sales client whether it's a mentoring client I talk to everybody about the business if you don't measure it you can't manage it and key performance indicators can be measured in in every every way shape or form and sales is no different and in a in a very simplistic world you know if you make a if you make a hundred calls and you know that out of a hundred calls you speak to fifty people and if those 50 people you have um 10 quotes to give out and of those 10 quotes you make three sales right you know that every 100 calls you're gonna make three sales if you do that on average so what do I excuse me what do I need to do?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: I need to make a hundred calls because I'm gonna get 50 I'm gonna have 50 conversations.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: If I have 50 conversations I'm gonna do 10 quotes.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know that's that's the path you do it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: And people say oh it's really simplistic you can't do it that way.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Let me tell you that that's how telesales teams work and that is exactly what telesales teams work and they set their team targets because they know if they're gonna make a hundred calls and they get three sales out of those hundred calls they're gonna target them to make 300 calls a day or 300 dials a day rather than 300 conversations.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly what they're what they're doing and that's the metric they do.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now if it works for big business it can also work for small business but you have to be disciplined in in measuring and measuring your stats and everything else and you change the way that you do things.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a sales process and something within your own sales process doesn't work you change it you fettle it you see what the outcome is and you'll that those out that outcome will be reflected in the numbers that you have at the end of it.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: So yes it's a time consuming process but actually that's how you refine and that's how you improve and exactly the same thing with you know people people talk about measuring success and that's that's exactly how you do it within a sales environment.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: So knowing your numbers is massively important and setting up those sort of um I suppose those dashboards that can record all that information that you can then go back and and you can look at it.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we do it and it does help you and it helps you improve.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah in the online space um often if we do a launch so um it might be that you're launching an online course or you're launching a webinar or maybe you're launching a program um there's obviously sort of key sales um activities that you can run and the one where I sort of focus on the are webinars and usually the conversion rate is is about two or three percent so the conversion rate's actually really quite low so with the same logic and thinking if if you know that the industry average for making actual conversion sales is roughly around two to three percent then you can work your numbers out.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: How many people do I need to get attending my webinar how many people you know are then gonna convert if I use that logic and I know for myself I love a system so I've got a whole system set up but but that's how I I track my numbers and it is a numbers game more people that come into your world the more people that listen to you the more conversions you're gonna get and then it's rinse repeat improve do it all again and and it's having that discipline it's knowing if you want to successfully sell something like an online course and I know obviously we've talked about selling online courses in networking you know online all of that but the best strategy for doing so because you're selling education essentially being an online course the best way is to is to be able to give somebody an experience where they get to experience it you and that's why webinars are so powerful because you're going to be teaching in your webinar you're teaching on your online course so it gives them a flavor of what you're like um but but those numbers equally have to come into play you want to you know you you you want to convert 10 people into your course you have to kind of work out well how many people do I need to get into my webinar and often it is a lot it is a lot in order to kind of be able to get the kind of sales but it's a compound effect you know because the more you run something the more improved you become the more you you know your audience becomes familiar with you the more they come to your stuff they like you they know you they trust you it compounds over time so those numbers for conversions become easier because you become known you become the authority the expert the person to learn from but it's having the discipline and the focus to kind of almost sort of not do well at the beginning and be okay with that in order to be open to learning about getting better and and I think sometimes I know in my space in the online business space that that makes people feel uncomfortable and I and I'm in communities and I have people around me that have tried and they've set out to do that very thing you know sell-free webinars and then they've given up because it's meant you know the first time they don't make a sale it's personal it has to be because of then and it isn't it's just because there's an alignment of things that need to be right before things start to happen and that's no different to business you know whether you're selling an online course or a service yeah yeah consistency is key you have to continue turning up you have to continue doing these things we talk about networking you mentioned networking there you have to continue going to those networking things yeah you're never going to sell something or get a referral from somebody on your first networking event you go to you've got to go you've got to build the relationship you've got to turn up with the I'm sure Kelly talks about you a lot about this on her on the podcast that you did with her that's that's the thing consistency is key and in it's the same with everything that you do in business.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you have to be consistent you have to promote yourself consistently you have to if you're doing sales you have to prospect consistently you have to have consistent conversations with people you have to consistently be doing these things because if you don't then it will drop off and you can't do three webinars and then go oh this isn't working you know it it it just there's no point um however you also have to be realistic because there's no point flogging a dead horse so if you if if something isn't working for you then you have to you have to do something else and I have to change it.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: You found that webinars work for you webinars might for somebody else they may not work because that other person may not be comfortable delivering a webinar it might be another technique or another prospecting technique that works for that individual you can have you can have two people that do exactly the same thing they sell exactly the same product and actually one sales strategy might work for that one individual and it might not work for the other one.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something else you have to understand what works for you and the only way you can do that is by testing it trialing it and seeing what happens and and those those sorts of things it's a really interesting sales is a really really interesting it's a really interesting topic because when people start to get success in sales they start to enjoy it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: When they start to see the results they start to enjoy it when they don't see the results that's when it becomes a drag and that's when it becomes hard yeah and that's when I guess what when you're getting the misalignment because you're absolutely right your sales um process needs to kind of align with your personality you know and that's an important thing isn't it like people don't talk about that that when it comes to sales sometimes it's not that the technique is wrong or the strategy's wrong it just might not be best suited to you.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's finding out what works best and taking the time to um to to find out and and I and I go back to sort of online courses because I was in a meeting the other day and and somebody turned on to me and they made this bold ass statement about online courses don't sell.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the and the the evening before I bought an online course so I I I just honestly some of the things people say to me that often it might be because maybe they've got an online course and it's not selling because the way they're trying to sell it isn't right for them they need another approach and it's it's almost being open to the fact that that equally could be a possibility and my webinars do really well I love a webinar only because I get to teach and I get to talk to people and you know me I'm I'm a chat bog so if I can sort of talk to my audience I think what better way to sell than to do something you enjoy doing.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's then taking the time like you say to to find that and and again I don't think that is really mentioned when it comes to selling because I think people have a uh have a kind of a way of thinking what sales looks like and actually there's so many ways to sell there is and the thing is as well what you're talking about there is when you like something or you're doing something if you come across it in an authentic way then you're coming across as your true self.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: People have a much stronger bullshit radar now than they ever used to have and if you're not authentic or you're not coming across in in in as your true self then people see that and they can smell it a mile off and actually as a result of that you're not gonna sell you you're not gonna sell so if you feel very uncomfortable doing a webinar and you're a little bit um I I suppose static on what you're doing or you stumble over your words or you struggle with it or all of those sorts of things and you don't come across well you may not come across as authentic and it might not work.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now I've been on your webinars you're exceptionally natural on a webinar you can tell you're in your comfort zone and you're doing it and and you you you can tell it's your it's the environment that you thrive in there are lots of other people who do webinars and and they're very static they're not they don't get involved with it they they they don't they're totally outside of the comfort zone I quite enjoy presenting on online on Zoom or whatever it whatever it would be.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: So for me when I've done webinars in the past I felt really comfortable with it because you can say what you want to say and and actually I'm quite happy in that environment the last webinar I did I picked up three I picked up three clients from it.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that's what I mean they're so effective aren't they when when like you say they see you yeah they see you and they buy into they buy into you who you are as a person now I didn't I didn't actually sell on that webinar um I was doing a webinar for only actually and um it was literally it was a it was a a thing that I'd been asked to do about sales confidence so I went in I I did this webinar and at the end of it James who was hosting the webinar turned around to me and he said something along the lines of so Steve what are you promoting?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought oh yeah actually hadn't thought about that bit so I the irony can I just say the the irony of a sales coach not selling anything I know I wasn't there I was there to I was there to do a presentation about sales confidence and everything else and I had been I've I've been putting my sales course together and I just thought oh do you know what I hadn't thought about that bit and it it was like oh a rookie era that is isn't it I've only been doing sales 30 odd years and you'd you'd think I'd actually figure it but what I the I again the irony is I didn't want to come across as a salesperson I didn't want to come across as salesy I didn't want to come across as pushy um and James and I had a very good laugh about this afterwards actually and and he just because that that was just classic that was I put you on the spot by asking what you were promoting.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but there you go but actually I picked three clients up so I must have come across okay you know yeah and I and I have to say that you are very authentic as well so I think you uh connect really well with people because you're not pushy and when you think of a sales trainer and how you come across it is just a conversation.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I can imagine actually the way that you may um find clients and and those conversations probably feel very easy because it's gonna be whether they like you it isn't necessarily down to whether they trust that you know what you because that comes through it's whether you're a good fit and I think sometimes when you don't sell I think people like that as well so it's knowing when to not sell and then when to sell and I but but I think that comes with experience I think it comes with confidence because you talk about what it is that you do in a way that that the trust is there.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's the thing that you know I think is a really important thing.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: And when like you say when you're passionate about something people feed off that and they and and they want to you know they want they want I think people want to learn not from people that just you know theory you know like live off the theory of stuff but people who are actually doing it they're walking their talk and they're passionate about what it is that they do.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think that that becomes magnetic yeah yeah it's so I I know exactly what you mean it really really is yeah one of the interesting one of the interesting things is is is that something that was you you mentioned earlier um about what people don't like about sales it's the closing is that is a big thing is asking for the order people hate to ask for an order um and I remember I I say I I use this as a as an example you you it doesn't have to be pushy you know in that whole whole asking for the order you can still be you can still be your authentic self you can still be who you are and what and what you say um and when I was first starting out as a consultant on my own um I got put in front of uh a a potential client and I got introduced to him again through a networking thing and we went out for coffee and went to to like the local Costa sat down and the first thing this lady said to me is just so you know you won't be able to sell to me.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: You will not be able to sell to me you will not be able to close to me and I went hey I'm not here to sell to you.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here to find out if I can help you.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not here to I'm not here to sell.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: We sat in there for about two hours and we had this fantastic conversation.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: We got on really, really well.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I said, So Um, I got my diary out.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Got my pen.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: God got my diary out.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: And she then took the Mickey out of me for having a pen and paper, a diary, rather than doing it on my phone.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, let's put a date into the next meeting then.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, Okay, so she got her phone out, she started looking for her scrolling through dates.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, You've just been closed.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, What do you mean you've just been closed?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, I've just said to you, let's get a date in the diary for the next meeting.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you've got your diary out, which just tells me that you want to have another meeting, so you've just been closed.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And she went, Oh my god, I didn't even realise it.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, You told me I couldn't sell to you.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Just have.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's that whole thing.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't, I wasn't salesy with her.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't do anything salesy with her.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: I did prove a point with her, but she told me I couldn't do it.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was you know that challenging thing that we were talking about?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Set me a challenge and I'll try and break it.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it was that whole thing, that's kind of that's kind of what you do.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: So authenticity is so so key, and being who you are, not trying to be pretend to be something that you're not.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um it is just really crucial in the whole sales thing.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Really and it sounds also like it was like an organic next step, yeah.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it wasn't you like you say, you trying to sell to her, trying to force her.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: It just seemed a logical thing to do is to kind of move it to the next stage, and I think that's it, isn't it?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I um so I'm gonna share a little bit of a uh a secret that so I've been delivering webinars now for probably I would I would say um probably about four years.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: My first year, and and yeah, it's quite embarrassing to admit this, I would put something in the calendar and I would cancel it.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would market it, I would get sign-ups, and then a day or so before the event, I would something would happen and I would cancel because I didn't feel confident um that I could deliver.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it went on for a little bit of a time, and I to the point where I got really annoyed with myself, so annoyed with myself, and I had to give myself a bit of a talking to.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started showing up and delivering, and I'm not saying I had high numbers, but I would have consistent numbers, and then what I would do is you know, the slide where you talk about the next step, I would quickly move past it so I didn't ask, I wouldn't sell, I wouldn't.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then I remember seeing this recording, this video from a guy called, I think his name is Colin Boyd.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's an Australian, he does all about selling from the stage.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely brilliant.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he um I was watching one of his videos and he he he put it in a in a way that really landed with me.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he and it was something like I'm just paraphrasing, but it was um, you're you're basically presenting an offer, um, which is the logical next step, but you're giving them the door to walk through, whether they walk through or not, is entirely down to them.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: He said it a lot better, but it was so it was a moment where it just really landed with me and it really sorted me out because what it did is it shifted my mindset around selling.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it and he put it in a way of if you don't uh if you don't offer, you know, you can't help them.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that's why I now enjoy it because I I shifted my mindset from a place of what's in it for me, to how can I help and and what can I present that's gonna get them a solution because they're clearly struggling with something that I can help with.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you reframe and you make it less about yourself and more about the person you're helping, I think it it just absolutely makes such a difference.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um about the person you're helping.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, it's so important, which leads me really nicely on to the summit because you are going to be attending the panel discussion on day two.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So on Wednesday, the 7th of October, at four o'clock, we have got a panel discussion.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this the topic is why do people struggle to sell, even though they're really good at what they do?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this, what we've spoken about today, I think ties in beautifully with that, because people people struggle, and and they're so brilliant at what they do.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really looking forward to that because I think it's gonna be a really good discussion.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I am as well, and I I love those sorts of discussions, and the exciting part for me is you never know what is gonna get thrown at you, and it's it's kind of that whole um uh you know, where's the conversation gonna go?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: And what questions are gonna come out from the what questions are gonna come out from the audience, and I love that because actually, and I I'll I will always say this there is no such thing as a stupid question, right?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter what the question is, there is no such thing as a stupid question.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't know the answer to a question, then ask it.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the you you're gonna have, I think there's four of us on the panel, isn't there, Kara?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, there is four of us who are all experts in what we do, and we will be able to come out with the answers for for you.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh and I think that's the thing that that I really really look forward to.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: And you can guarantee if you don't know the answer to a question, there's gonna be somebody else that's watching that's gonna be thinking, Oh, I really should ask this question.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh oh, somebody else has answered it.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic, that's great, you know, and that that's that's the joy of it.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm very excited about doing it.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we'll see how it goes.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited for the whole summit to be honest with you.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know, I know.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: I we're we're literally one week out.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've had, I think I'm like 220 sign-ups or something, which has blown my mind, and and I've got a week to go, so I'm so excited.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited about sales has been a real interesting journey for me.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: But this summit, you know, we talk about when we're passionate about something, when we believe in something, when we know our audience and we know what we have is really gonna support them.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I feel about this summit.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not about me, it's about everybody else coming on board and being able to really support because everybody's at a different place, and everybody is brilliant at what they do.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's gonna it's gonna be awesome.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be awesome, and I'm really excited about the panel discussions because I think some great stuff's gonna come out of that.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I am as well, and it's gonna really help as well.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate you coming on board and and um being a part of that.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm totally looking forward to it.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so before we finish off, I've got a quick fire round of questions, and it's just because I'm nosy.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are you a coffee or a tea drinker?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: What are they drinking in Cornwall?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm um I drink both coffee and tea.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't drink tea, I don't I drink coffee up until about midday, and then I switch to tea in the afternoon.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I do like both.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: But it's definitely English breakfast, not any of these fancy chai latte type teas or whatever.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Can't be doing with any of the fruity teas, no, thank you.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Pina clada tea.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: I bought some, I bought some, and then it was a good idea at the time, and then it sat in the cupboard, and I'm like, that sounds really awful.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've just got no idea that.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: I got I got bought some my my elders bought me some um biscuit flavoured tea.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: That didn't work.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I can't see how it could, to be honest.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's one business book that you think every entrepreneur should read?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: So this is gonna surprise you, but I've never read a business book.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so a lot of people a lot of people read loads of business books out there.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm dyslexic, right?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't do a lot of reading.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: I've just got into listening to audiobooks, but I use reading to switch off.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: However, I am a prodigious podcast watcher, and I get lots and lots of information out of podcasts.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: I love watching business videos and those sorts of things, um and I love learning about people's business journey and that kind of thing, and I learn from people, and I have a lot of one-to-ones with people, and and I've got my own podcast that I I speak to business owners on and everything else.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how I get my learning now.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: I get my learning through a lot of a lot of the new media channels that we have we have nowadays.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: If I was going to recommend a business podcast, I would say go and listen to the diary of a CEO, but the early the early ones.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: So probably his first hundred editions or so.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because it he has some fantastic, fantastic guests on there.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: And the knowledge and the the stuff that you can glean from those, and you the takeaways that you can get from those are really, really important and really powerful.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's kind of what I do.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I've never read a business book.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you said that because like you, I listen to audiobooks.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have the attention span to read, I've never been a reader.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but and and absolutely, I completely get what you're saying.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's learning from people's experiences and stuff.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it is absolutely amazing.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I think that's great because just because you're in business doesn't need mean you have to be reading.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, but it again, again, you you have a lot of people go, Oh, I've read this great business book here, I've read this great business business book there.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you feel almost um you feel almost like left out of the crowd and uh and actually a bit stupid because you're not reading all these business books that other people are devouring.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be honest with you, I find business books really, really, really dull.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, no, yeah, no, absolutely.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you'll never find me uh in a in a book club.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: It will just it will it's one of those things that you just never yeah, absolutely.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's one tool or app that you couldn't run your business without?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh a tool or app so there's a few, but I would say probably the technology that's coming on nowadays in in terms of uh AI, Canva, all of these sorts of things, are things that I would never have been able to do beforehand.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um I use I I would say they're probably the the the most helpful things that I've got now.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm now using AI like it's a personal assistant.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have some fantastic conversations with my AI, and then I've got to remember it's just a bloody computer.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, I do have some great conversations with AI.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: Mine's called Dave, by the way.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask, does that have a name?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have a name to it.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Dave.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've called it Dave.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: I actually say to hello Dave, how are you doing?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, Alright, Steve, you're right.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it always makes me laugh.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm such a child.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, I get it's the positive reinforcement, you know.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: I used to, when my kids were little, I used to always that's how I got them to do things, positive reinforcement.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel these days I mean that's all the AI is doing.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing really well.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sometimes it feels like it's a bit of an echo chamber, though, isn't it?
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: So what you've got to do is I I turn around to Dave sometimes to go, look, Dave, I know you appreciate what I know.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I type into it.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: Dave, I know you appreciate what I do, and I know you're a bit of a fanboy.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: However, I want you to be really critical of these things.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Steve, let's be really critical about it.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's so funny, and it just makes me chuckle.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: It gives me a smile on my face, it amuses me.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: What can you do?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best piece of business advice that you've ever received?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, see, I ask people this question all the time, and and I've had some fantastic answers from people.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um personally, the best piece of business advice I've ever had.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, again, salesperson here.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit controversial.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: Not every client is a good client.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's it it's it was very, very true.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many pieces of business advice I've received over the years that have been absolutely real real real worldies and real gems.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um back in the day, back in the family business, so we're going back, I'm going back now probably 20 years, we had a a client that was worth uh they they were turning over with us£450,000 a year.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: They were our biggest client by some margin.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: However, we were making no money off it.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when we originally went into the contract, um we we were told that the contract was going to be worth about£600,000 a year.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um that didn't materialize.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: At£600,000 we were making good money.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: At£400,000, we weren't making money.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Of£450,000, we were about we weren't even breaking even, but we we it wasn't as bad as as the£400k.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: We but we knew, but the historically they were doing£600,000 with this contract traditionally.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we thought, do you know what we'll take a punt on it?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: And the first year it came back and it was we did about£450 with them.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I went in to see the purchasing manager there and said, you know, we can't afford to do this work with you.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and he goes, No, no, no, keep going, keep going, we're gonna promote it really, really hard and everything.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, Okay, so we'll do we'll we'll carry on.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I was given some advice not long after that by somebody, you can't if you if the business is there's business you can't afford, and this is business that you can't afford.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so not all business is good business.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that was that that that was the that was a bit of a an epiphany moment for me, possibly.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: And now I do sit there and I think, is this business I want to do, is this business I don't want to do?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I say the same to all of my clients, you know, there is some business you can afford, and there's some business you can't afford.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: Just don't be a busy fool.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be busy for the sake of being busy.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's really great advice.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: Really great advice.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was probably one of the the the biggest uh that was probably one of the most memorable pieces of advice I think I've been given.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: I've like I say, I've been given lots over the years.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in one sentence, what does building an online business mean to you?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: And can I can I just say that you are running a sales program at the moment with a view to creating your online course, but also you do have a membership as well.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you are you are in the world of being able to kind of build these online products um for future intentions.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, what does it mean to me?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so as we talked about before the podcast, we talked a little bit about money, and it's not about that.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um but what it is about is I am one person, and I have a finite amount of time in my diary, and I'm on a mission to help as many people as I possibly can, particularly in the small business world.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: I want to I want to help people.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh don't be that don't be that person that I was when I was running a business uh when I had staff and all of that sort of thing, where I was overwhelmed, I was struggling, and everything else.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a big passion of mine is is looking after the mental health of people who are running businesses, because running a business is really, really lonely.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: So my the courses that I'm putting together online gives me, in my opinion, it gives me a greater platform to get the messages out there that are going to help more people with their business.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of what it means to me.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, you can deliver courses, you can, you can, you can run a you can run a course, um, people can sign up to it, you can sit on a live webinar, or sit on sit on a live screen, you can do all those sorts of things, but you can only reach so many people.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're delivering your stuff one-to-one, you can only reach so many people because there are only so many hours in a day.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: But online gives us the capacity to actually get our message out much further to people who actually need that support and need that help.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of what it means to me.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all about the impact.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: It is about the impact.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: Steve, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: We've had an amazing conversation.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you've enjoyed this conversation, then you are going to love the online business growth summit because this is just a small taste of what there is to come.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, alongside today's guest, you'll be hearing from over 18 incredible experts covering everything from digital products, marketing, sales, AI, visibility, audience growth, and so much more.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all designed to help you build income beyond selling your time.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you can register for free um by going to my website www.sellyourbrillianceonline.com, or you can click the link in the comments or the bio.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Steve, thank you for joining me today.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been great, and I look forward.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to next week.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: I really hope it's given you something to think about and perhaps inspired you to look at your business a little bit differently.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you've enjoyed this episode, then I'd be grateful if you could go with a friend or a fellow entrepreneur.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps more people to start the podcast, and you never know who might need to hear this message today.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're ready to start building a business that gives you more freedom, then I would love to invite you to join me at the online business growth summit.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this summit is taking place on the 6th to the 8th of October online.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's completely free to attend and it's going to bring together over 18 expert speakers who will be sharing practical strategies to help you create a business that you love, a business that truly supports your lifestyle.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can register your free place today by visiting www.sellubulingsonline.com.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: I will be back next week with another episode.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, have a wonderful week.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Online Business Uncovered.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: If today's conversation has sparked an idea or gave you a dose of clarity, then please make sure to check out the show notes for all the links and resources mentioned.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: New episodes land every Thursday, so hit follow or subscribe to stay in the loop.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're loving the show, a quick rating or review goes a long way in helping more brilliant entrepreneurs like you find this show.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep showing up, keep sharing your brilliance, and remember, freedom in business is possible, and it starts with taking the next right step.