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Heather Powers: Powering the Way to Your Bold Life · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the lead and marked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whether they faced challenges or dealt along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be free.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Today we have Heather Powers.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Heather is a keynote speaker, executive coach, and author on a mission to keep working mothers in the workforce and in the driver's seat.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: As founder of the Power Lane and creator of the Workplace Village framework, she works with moms and the leaders who need them to build workplaces where caregivers thrive and drive results.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Heather brings over 30 years of management consulting experience, including executive roles at KPMG and Booz Allen.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Her book, The Power Lane, Why Keeping Moms in the Workplace Rams the Economy, makes the business case for why that matters and what to do about it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: She's based in Washington, D.C.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: and is a working mother of two teenagers.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to jump right into being bold.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: We talked a little bit in the green room, and I am excited to hear your definition because I think, you know, overall we've never really talked specifically about this.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So what is your definition, Heather, of the word bold?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been thinking about this as we were uh planning to record this, and it doesn't get easier, it just gets harder.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: The first one that comes to mind, the first example of being bold is betting on yourself.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think about being young, packing up my bright red F-150 and moving from New Hampshire to DC, not knowing anyone and having a friend of a friend as sort of a contact for a possible job and sort of betting on myself that I was going to figure it out.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I have several examples of that through my life.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the most recent one, which we've talked a bit more about, is quitting corporate and going out on my own and betting on myself to build this power lane and helping moms and leaders in some capacity.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so being bold to me is that betting on yourself, knowing you can figure it out.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And with betting on yourself, it's the belief in yourself.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I heard you actually say that word of I can figure it out.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: It, you know, it's not going to be the perfect maybe route, but it is going to be a route from step one to step two, right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you've bet on yourself not only in your career, but also in your life.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think you were doing that all along since you were young?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like that belief in yourself, you could figure it out.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just kind of grew and grew and grew to the point where you know you felt solid as a as an adult.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I say that because I grew up in a rural area and there weren't a lot of us.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so you kind of had to bet on yourself because there just weren't a lot of people around.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you had to figure it out.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's more trees than people in New Hampshire for sure.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you had to figure it out.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then lately I've been questioning like, when did I get more cautious?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's still that, okay, I can figure it out.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think part of it is getting older, right?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there's the mortgage, there's the kids, they're, you know, the kids going to college.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you just feel a bit more responsibility and oh gosh, maybe I don't have the runway I used to have when it was just me.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, I didn't need as much to live back in my 20s and 30s, but now there are more people leaning on me, people that I'm responsible for.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not that we don't like responsibility.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it just can be heavy or heavier at different points in our lives for sure.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some people are, you know, we talked about caregivers yesterday, you know, uh, in another session that we did, and we were talking about, you know, it's not just parents.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: You you could be actually caregiving your parents, or, you know, and it's not always the mom and dad.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: It could be, you know, someone else that is actually the caregiver.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was important too, because a lot of your work really does come back to caring for someone else, right?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the work that you do uh within your company and certainly what you talked about in your book.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you pick that particular topic to dive into, to be, you know, one of the people I think that's educating the world about the impact of working moms specifically?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, first because I have been, right?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: For the last 19 years.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't take a break with either kid, you know, short four or five month maternity leave, but I kept working through.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember it being hard.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: I only had four weeks.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like I say this and I hear people say four or five months.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, where was I?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I worked for a good company.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was in I guess uh like a year out from grad school, so I was a senior, but yeah, it would just I don't know that the four weeks just sounds incredibly short in general, and now it just even worse.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, but yeah, even for four months is you know four months is it it was again.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was just chatting with some friends in Canada and they're like, Oh, we just got up to 18 months.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's wow.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that is great.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: For you, yeah, yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful, yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, but you didn't really have a lot of time, you had the minimal amount of time, and then back at it for both of your kids.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and understanding sort of again, it was hard.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: We powered through, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about that in the past of you just did what you had to do, and then really pausing in COVID to say, this is hard.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's hard to raise a family and work.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And most of us want to, right?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: We may have gone to school or been training, or somehow we want to have this career, but yet we also now have these people that are expecting us to be around or care for them in some capacity.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the workplace typically isn't designed for caregiving, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of designed as if you don't have any other responsibilities, whether it's caregiving or hobbies or you know, volunteering or whatever your outside work life looks like.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so having lived through that and then in COVID saying, gosh, this is really hard, being almost grateful that my kids were older, teenagers at the time, and watching young families go, oh my gosh, you know, I've got a toddler, I've got this preschool or whatever it is, going, it hasn't gotten easier.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was kind of a wake up to me of it's actually gotten harder, I think, for those who have come behind me in the parenthood journey.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so between that lived experience and then truly believing that we do need moms and alt caregivers in the workplace because we bring different lived experiences and we have skill sets that may have been taught or learned in the workplace or at home, but either way, they're transferable.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if we don't bring those into the workplace, when we don't get the benefit of that.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: But in many cases, we're serving people who look like us, or you know, we're our clients are parents or mothers or what have you.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we don't have them in the workplace, we're sort of missing that insight.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you reached a personal moment of this can't be the way I have to operate, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: For yourself.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about that and when it was and set the scene?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I've worked for some large consulting firms and really had great experiences overall.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had two really defining moments in the last eight years or so.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: One, my husband was going through a health crisis, and I worked for a great group of leaders at the time.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was in a new role and sort of interacted with a lot of executives.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as we were navigating his health journey, kept them informed of here's where we are, here's where I think I'll need some extra time, here's where I'll be out of the office.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And to a person, they would say, I'm not sure that's enough, Heather.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you have the time you need.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: You you need to be supporting your family, not just him, but you know, the kids as well.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like it was hard enough to deal with that at home.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt so supported at work.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was a huge stress relief, a huge weight off my shoulders.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then fast forward a few years and we're in the middle of COVID or towards the end of the worst of it, and the kids needed a bit more of my attention.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd changed teams.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I had a whole different project, a whole different um leadership structure.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it was almost the opposite.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was, what do you mean you're taking time off?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or what do you mean you're not going to be available for this meeting?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I felt at that point I was not taking much at all.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you step away for a few minutes or you know, a couple hours to go to an appointment or just make appointments, whatever it was was needed at the time.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And being told, yeah, all kids go through that.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Your kids will be fine.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even know the specifics, and you're sort of passing it off as, you know, not a big deal.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're overplaying this.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was awful.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get to say that, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get a vote on that or an opinion unless you've lived it.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so so you just said, I'm not going to do this anymore.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And is that where you then really jumped into what is now the power lane?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And tell me more about what is a power lane and how is it connected to you know what you're building and what you're sharing through the workplace village?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it absolutely is where I said, I've got to do something.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it took me a while to figure out what that something looked like, but I knew I wanted to coach.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I loved working with people one-on-one.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'd done a lot of building teams and coaching people in my corporate life.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew I wanted to do something around that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I also thought I had a story message to share.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so wanted to figure out how best to do that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought, oh heck, to get the messages and sort of crystallize my thinking, let's write a book.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so over that journey.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why not?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know you've been through it a few times.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just twice.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just twice.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I've done one and I'm not sure there's another one in me.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it took a while to sort of figure out like what is that unique story?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: What is that that thing that I could offer that might be helpful to others?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And playing off my names, my maiden name and my married name.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, let's just let's use it.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've got it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Let's use it.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I like it.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a new knowing for me.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So very cool.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So powerlane is part of names of you know, you're maiden and you're married.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I love that.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So using that.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and honestly, that wasn't an original idea.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: It came from others.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Remember sitting in my coaching class and I just got a text from him, and he's like, You have the best name.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, you're right.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I should use that.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I trying to come up with something new?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love it.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Great advice.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks, Alex, for that.
• 10:58
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the idea here is that we all have a lane, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: We all have a path that we that we want to follow.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we can't see it or it feels hard.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, one of the challenges I see a lot of women and a lot of moms in particular struggle with is feeling alone.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're the only ones who can't figure it out.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're the only ones who are struggling with integrating work in life.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't figured out how to perfectly color code their calendar or, you know, arrange their weeks exactly the way they're supposed to.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And in reality, it's it is hard.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we were not meant to do this alone.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so if that's if nothing else, uh if people walk away from that, I just want them to know they're not alone, that we've all struggled at some point.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've all had to lean on someone else at some point in our careers or in our parenthood or caregiving journey.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I want the power lane to be support for people when they're questioning, struggling, or just feeling challenged and sort of wondering what the next step is on their path.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So your book called The Power Lane, Why Keeping Moms in the Workplace, Revs the Economy, is one of the ways that you've been able to take all your learnings and things that you've done, research, et cetera, and put it into the book.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: When they finish the book, what do you want them to walk away with?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: One, you're not alone.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's happening to you is happening to many.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And anything else that you want them to know once they're done with the book?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the book is meant to be a business case.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: For years, we've talked about the sort of the diversity argument and the different perspectives, and we want people from different lived experiences in the workplace, and that just makes us stronger.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's gotten us only so far.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So this was meant to share one, you're not alone, but two, that there is a real economic and sort of bottom line business impact to having moms in in the workplace.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the book tries to lay out that everyone at every level of organization can create that village, can be part of that community that makes it work better for all of us.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you're the most junior person in the organization or you're the senior executive, you all have the ability to support one another.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be everything from offering to pick up a task because someone has to step away for some reason to being more vocal, sort of showing by by leadership and by uh modeling behavior to actually advocating for policies or regulations or even laws that would help your teams and your organization.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: When you're thinking about the creation of a workplace village, I think that's to me an organization that's forward thinking, probably understands the totality of what flexibility looks like and doesn't confuse flexibility with accountability, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think there's when I hear even now, and we talked about this yesterday too, but all of a sudden things that were okay during COVID, you know, work from home, those are things are it feels like we're tightening back to five days in the office, et cetera, with some organizations.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it it feels like again, we're thinking that's how people are more accountable, get more done.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it feels like we went backwards.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: But why does that happen?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think, or what have you seen when it flexibility gets put uh in an analogous way to being accountable and being responsible for your work?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're confusing presence with performance, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Some find it easier to quote manage the work if they can see you doing the work.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really a management problem.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or slash leadership problem.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think you hit the nail on the head because I think you think that you can manage people if you can see them or they're in front of you.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what it comes down to is maybe the inability to actually manage a team virtually.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Which, you know, is a different type of thing that you would focus on, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think we we've talked a little bit about this in the past of managers are the linchpin for many between the the employee and the organization.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: In some cases, they are the sole connector.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And over the years, and I saw this personally and I I see this as I work with other organizations, we're not training managers, right?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: They get promoted to that first line leadership.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if anything, it's how do you approve time or how do you approve time off, maybe expenses?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: But there's little around how do you structure work and how do you oversee that work?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're sitting next to your team or you're managing them virtually, how do you adjust when someone goes out?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because maybe someone's going out on parental leave.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someone's been pulled from your team to work on another project.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: The workload's still there.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't know how to restructure that or redistribute it, often it just gets heaped onto someone else's workload versus having a conversation to say, okay, we're down two people.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to hit these milestones, or something's going to slip for us to hit, adjust it in some capacity.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And our managers are rarely trained to have those conversations or to manage some of these scenarios.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's true.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I think about my manager roles or those listening, you can think about theirs, you know, you have maybe a leadership thing or an intro in, you know, an onboarding, or you're given a coach.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I there's a continuum of how you might arrive.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or you just said, hey, here's your job, here's your desk, here's your ID, go for it.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we've all experienced that at some point.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, not recently.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when you have this lack of what I would say consistency with regard to preparing our staff, you know, people who step into these roles and apply and really want to be it, like, what would we do more as organizations in that particular area to help them again understand how to manage and how to see and even, you know, how to have some of the conversations with people who may not be, you know, saying they need help, but maybe they are struggling at home, taking care of their parents and their kids and, you know, they need a little bit of time.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is there something, you know, is it bringing the power lane to organizations and helping them understand those pieces and parts, or where do they start?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So first I think it's sort of assessing where they are.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have existing training?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is there even the course or is there some have half day?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I used to have a four-day leadership training.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if that isn't available or organizations uh leaders find that to be maybe too onerous or they feel like it's too expensive, there has to be some introduction to here's your new responsibility and here's how it should be done.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think key to that is uh helping them understand that they don't have to have all the answers and they're not expected to.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so that means if they're managing a team and one of their team members comes to them with a scenario that they personally haven't lived through or they haven't had to navigate in any other way, that they don't have to figure it out on their own.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: They can go to their own manager.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's probably an HR team that could help them, but to not immediately say no because they don't know how to handle it, or handle it in a way that perhaps isn't the best for the employee and or the team.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so knowing that they're not alone, that there are others, uh, perhaps even going outside the organization to a mentor or a coach to say, hey, here's a challenge that I'm facing.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of new managers are anxious about being in that role and wanting to do well, not wanting to be perceived as someone who can't handle this role.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they tend to be pretty black and white, pretty literal with the handbook and not wanting to go out on a limb if they feel like that might not be approved or acceptable by their own leadership team.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about your first management role, I was sitting here thinking about mine, and I was wondering because we're talking about better training and not only for our employees, but also for our managers too, who are, you know, managing very differently than they were managing even two years ago, right?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because now some managers may actually be managing agents, AI agents, or a team of AI agents and human beings, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the AI, and you're seeing this in the news too, is a lot of the AI things that are happening, they're taking out whole levels of individuals, you know, from a hierarchy perspective of an org chart.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the management of it is actually going to the managers.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like they're feeling it right now.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: When you think about the ingredients of that, as I think about the root cause, like how do we get to the root?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get to the root?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the things that we could be talking more about or training better on, or, you know, getting together in a way that it's a safe space, right?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, psychological safety obviously within an organization is necessary, but even just having a safe space to even have those conversations.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So whether they're called pods or circles or accountability groups, I've seen those and and lived those.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: But having that sort of peer group to say, gosh, this is what I'm handling right now, and yeah, I'm struggling, or I'd love some more ideas.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how are you handling this challenge?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: It provides that, as you said, safe space for us to brainstorm ideas, to share what we've lived, to compare what has worked and where perhaps we've stumbled or we've seen others it not be as effective as they want.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Again, none of us should be expected to do this alone because that's not how it's meant to be, right?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's not how work is meant to be, it's not how life is meant to be.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so the minute we can get rid of that fear of asking or sharing, I think the stronger we all are.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about what a company invests in and the things that they, you know, want for their organizations, they want to retain their staff because ultimately they know generally the cost of losing someone is as varied and has many levels.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about being able to keep a mother or caregiver in the workforce, what is the ROI that maybe they're missing or not seeing as readily when they say, no, sorry, you know, it's five days in the office or or nothing.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes they're thinking about that particular individual and they're not thinking about the impact that individual has on the team.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, if a mom is let go, that's a loss because she's no longer in the workplace.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the decision makers that have said she's not there or have helped her decide she's not wanting to stay there, they're not thinking about the others on the team who have been watching her.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they're not thinking about the other women or moms who are watching her.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: They might not even be on the team in the same account, but they're watching how moms or women who are five, 10, 15 years ahead of them are being treated and questioning is this where I want to be?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is this the place that's gonna support me?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's in my parental journey or in my career goals.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we're often making that decision based on person sitting in the current seat and not thinking about everyone around who's watching them and how they're treated and deciding am I going to stay or not?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's a real loss.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're not calculating regularly.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're not thinking about it like that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, you know, just I'm the type of person who has a thousand questions.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, what I think about what You just said is what is the actual impact, like what research exists, you know, to show once a key leader or however that gets defined, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it more than once, you know, or twice.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it a whole host of times.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly in my time, you know, if I've left an organization, how many you know, people of my team would leave, or you know, and to me that was like a stability piece, not every time, you know.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think the intention is like when you leave, you want your team to stay intact and yes and to be awesome.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And to, you know, I always thought about promoting someone internally, you know, like you know, who I want to take over the role, those types of things if it came to me leaving.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think like you said, people aren't really thinking about it in totality.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's more they're you know, they're honed in on one person.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think they see accommodation as something negative versus if I let's and I don't even know if that's the right word?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, to me it means you were you're actually creating an infrastructure that can perform at the highest level.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, maybe it should be a performance infrastructure pivot or something.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, we come up with a great name.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, that that's oh, that's pip.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to use that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, pips.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, infrastructure, not improvement.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: But what could we do so that it's not seen as if I let her do it?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta, I have to let everybody do it.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard that more than once too.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can't possibly or we can't talk about it, right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: If she needs a special chair or a special schedule or something that differs from the norm, we don't want to talk about it because then everyone else might want it.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think it has to be the opposite, right?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: It we have to talk about why and recognize that that could be a phase.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: It could just be the period that she or he is in, and that's what's needed for them to do their best work.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then to me, the others on the team realize, gosh, if I have a situation where I need that support, whether it's short term or long term, it's there and the team will support me.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think we need to be more transparent about that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it sort of takes away the mystery, but it also reinforces for the people who maybe don't need that or need any of those right now.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: If I do need that down the road, it's there for me.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Two things you've just talked about back to back with the questions in different ways is, you know, in in every way that we're operating, whether we're the person who needs to ask for help and hasn't, we're we're modeling for our team that don't ask for help, keep your head down, be overwhelmed.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of what we do here.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you're in a way sending that message.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And as a leader, if you're, you know, not really, you know, mingling and talking to your staff and you know, doing things, you know, one-to-one, so you know, feel safer, the space is smaller, at least for the conversation, you're setting the stage too for how you're set to operate.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's this combination of self-behavior, self-agency, you know, agency with you know who you are and what you want and how you need to operate.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think also organizationally and the leadership.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Are there any other variables that you think come into play that have a primary impact into why this is still happening and why we haven't solved it?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: So as I think about this concept I talk about called the workplace village, we sort of have the ideal of, as you said, sort of everything's working, the village, right?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: You've got the support, everything's good.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: The leaders feel like they're getting the best out of their team and they're hitting their metrics and then that they're all happy.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the employees feel like they're doing their best work and are happy to go to work and perhaps even have fun doing work with their team.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other end, it's sort of the every person's out for themselves and not out in a bad way, but just you're on your own.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's little support.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: You sort of do what you need to do, maybe don't go above and beyond because why?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's no expectation, there's no reward to do that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so if those are the two extremes, then in the middle you've got this sort of luck of the manager, which you might have the policies and they, you know, the intent might be there to support your team, but it really depends on who that manager is.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you got a great manager, everything's great.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have a great manager, things are not so good.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other side is what I call brochure benefits, where it looks good on paper.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've got these policies or these practices that seem good, but in reality, they they're not really used because I mean you get those two or four weeks of parental leave, but no one really takes that because the expectation is that you, you know, sort of take the minimum leave you can, or you've got five or six weeks of PTO.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that that's generous for some, but you don't really take it because again, the culture is that you're sort of take minimal time off.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask a quick question there?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because it made me think about the organizations that it's like endless time off.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've heard from those that I know that work in endless time off, either that's really, really good, they really do take time off when they need it, or it's the opposite, meaning they're not sure how much really is okay to take off.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they really don't, they probably minimize themselves even more than you know, than they should, right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that the PTO time off is a policy that the policy can't solve it, but do you think it's a place or space, like when you talk with organizations to look at to see if it's modeling truly that workplace village spirit and mission of what it has?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a great example of something that can be tracked, right?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can review that data and see who's taking their full time off and who's not.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they're not, that would beg a question of why.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are they not feeling comfortable?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do they feel like they're in a busy season?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps they're saving it up for something down the road or you know, to have it around the holidays.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But it begs a question.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't think we are consistently using the data we have to ask questions like that, not in a probing or intrusive way, but more of a, hey, these are benefits that are here for you.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not helpful, if they're not meeting the needs that you are dealing with right now, what would be?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so getting that feedback directly to say, okay, if it's not the the time off, or if it's not the leave policies, or it's not the attendance or you know, where you have to work policies, what would be helpful?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: And too often we're sort of relying on what's already set in stone, or not even having the question and sort of guessing around he didn't take time off when his wife had a child.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there does seem to be like I know certainly during my time at at at different academics, there's a sense of like an undercurrent of whatever's been done before everybody knows about it, you know, like, oh, well, we don't ask that, or you know, I know I had some stuff that would, you know, well, I never thought I could ask that.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, why not?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's never been done before.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, that doesn't mean you don't ask, right?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if we have some people out there who aren't maybe advocating or feeling alone, where would they start?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: What advice would you give them just to begin today?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um the manager would be a first start, but recognizing that's not you're not comfortable or Yeah, maybe that's not the first step.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: So look at a peer.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in an organization with an HR team, go there because they have a confidentiality uh requirement to be a resource for you.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: You probably have mentors, others in the organization that can be a safe place to bounce ideas off or ask questions, just provide an objective perspective.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Many organizations have coaches, whether they're in-house or external, and you can probably get time with a coach to run ideas by.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: But again, you're not alone.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of people there that you can ask questions, and I would encourage everyone to do that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not making a decision on your own.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you're not alone.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Ask questions, feel like you're asking it in a safe space.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the thing I would add in there is just because it's never been asked before doesn't always mean it shouldn't be asked if it's possible because you don't get what you don't ask for.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I definitely think we we've made some strides um where it's not all on the mother, but the mental load is still there.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I am not trying to dismiss what engaged parents, engaged fathers do.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you could have the best partner, no matter who they are, you know, and they're behind you, they support you, but your work doesn't.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: They can't fix that, right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's uh we've made some strides, and I don't think it's as taboo to talk about being a parent or being a mother as it was, you know, 20, 25 years ago when I was thinking about a family.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: We have paternity leave, which is great.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I wish we would have had that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: I sound very old, but I we didn't have the back in my days.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like people wouldn't even think about that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just think everything needs to be longer.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think the other thing that comes into play, right?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you can solve this problem, is child care.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the cost of good childcare of any, I think at all child care should be good.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So this shouldn't be like, oh, I have to go here and I have to go there.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like it should, you know, be at a good level that you can use it.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Are there things that we could also learn from, you know, that space in your work?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh one, we've never had enough childcare for the demand that's out there.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: So accessibility is an issue, affordability, as you said, is is always an issue, and it hasn't gotten better, right?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't have enough back in 2019, we're not even back to those levels yet.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then demand is is rising.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, what can we learn from there?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Some organizations have on-site childcare, and that's wonderful.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have enough.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy stories about getting on my organization's um child care list with my first, and I got a call when my youngest was five.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I that lead time's not working for all of us.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And recognizing there's the flexibility, and it's certainly hard to plan, but childcare is essential for retention of great employees.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so whether it's subsidies or on-site childcare or even an employee assistance programs to help you find available childcare, that is an investment that returns, and I won't remember the figures off the top of my head, but the ROI is great there.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And some great examples of organizations that have realized there isn't childcare in our region.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're just going to have to build it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what that has done for their employee morale, their retention, and really their productivity.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because if your kids are taken care of in a place that you're safe, that you feel is safe and and you're trusted, you can focus on your work so much better.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're more productive, your energy is in the right space, the worry level is lower, cortisol is doing, you know, taking a break, hopefully, and you're able to, you know, think more clearly for sure.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: When you feel like that's settled and close.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are that's wonderful.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a great benefit to have within organizational it's just part of the culture.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's the other, if I'm thinking about venning, you know, we have our own responsibility, we're in that bubble.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: The organization has its responsibility to this.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think there's the cultural bubble, like vents of like what's expected of a caregiver here or their age or whatever it may be.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's something that's really outdated that you wish would go away?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what's something new you're excited about in this?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And feel free to start whichever one you want to start with.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things I see organizations doing more of that I'm excited about is elder care.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've talked about that sort of sandwich generation that that many of us find ourselves in, still caring for children as our parents need more attention.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that was never available when I was back in corporate.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't available.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I hear more and more organizations doing that.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's huge because if childcare is a challenge, elder care is even more of a challenge.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Again, finding the right support, what do mom and dad need?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a huge benefit.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I love to see that more.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I also keep coming back to this idea of organizations saying, well, it's not required, or you know what, we're doing more than what the law requires us to do.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's wonderful.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of the changes we've seen in society are because an organization or an industry has said this isn't working for us, we're going to make the change, right?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like all the way back to why do we have a 40-hour standard work week?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't because the federal government said we're going to do that.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's because Henry Ford realized that his workers were more productive when they only worked 40 hours a week.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it was purely a cost and productivity equation.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was something like 20 years later when the federal government said, geez, we should, you know, put that into law.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think reminding organizations that are feeling already like they're out on the cutting edge that it's okay to keep pushing the envelope, right?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to keep trying things because if we wait for government or laws or policies to catch up, we're never going to move forward.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that sort of sitting back on the heels going, but we're doing more than others, great, keep going.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, waiting for someone else to make them fix it, basically make a policy, make a rule.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And there are organizations out there that they only do it because they have to, right?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then some say, oh, well, we're doing more than the minimum, which sometimes the minimum is just ghastly and just ridiculous.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like saying that's not really saying much, right?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then you have your continuum.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, again, sounds like inconsistency of a standard.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, creating a standard for what is a return to work as a caregiver, you know, regardless, you know, and in different situations, different things, of course, medically and so forth, but doesn't sound like there's a lot of standardization around it.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: When things aren't standardized around particular things like that, it can get to the point where there is literally no commonality between any of them.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so much of what we rely on in life is tied to our employment.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's our leave, it's our insurance, it's retirement plans.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like all of that is already so tied to our employer versus having it as part of society.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: It just adds to this sort of stress around our employment because we're not going to walk away from a job if we don't know that we can get those things at the next one.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or that our partner has them.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's the first thing.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you think about leaving or or if you're interviewing somewhere, you're what are the benefits?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: What are the pros and cons?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, like what does that look like?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's something that's so important overall.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Very much so.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: On a lots of levels of health, too, you know, for anyone, even you know, even more importantly for caregivers.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's sitting here listening as we close out and their manager who maybe's thinking, I haven't been doing enough, or maybe I haven't been having those conversations, where can they start?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: What can they just start today?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: So one, if you haven't checked in with each member of your team in the last 30 days, have a quick five-minute check-in.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have a conversation about what's going well, where are they feeling challenged?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else you as a manager or you as an organization could do to support them?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even if they don't say anything immediately, opening that door is critical to that communication.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a week later.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: They come to you and say, remember we had that conversation?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've been thinking about it.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that would really help.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And often they're not expensive asks.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's again a clarification around a policy.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's some flexibility perhaps on a schedule or a work location, but they won't ask if you don't open the door and make it okay to ask.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes people need help, but they don't ask for help.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's something you can do if you're seeing all the signs, someone's maxed out their time, you know, they had uh maybe an ill parent or a parent that it fell, or you know, there's a lot going on, but they're keeping it all together.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that they're not doing good work.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you you you see it, but they're like, I'm fine, I'm fine.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Anything we can do there.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Again, checking in.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're getting the same, I'm fine, I'm fine.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Have others check in with them.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it might be your HR person, it might be a trusted mentor or someone that they feel comfortable uh sharing with, but reminding them that they are not alone and that they don't have to carry it all alone.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes even just sharing everything that they're juggling is is enough.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes talking it out, they can and ideas come to light of, oh, I could share this or I could offload that um just to help this period of time be a little less stressful.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes people just like being able to share it without even getting someone's advice because everyone we all have opinions, right?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, from that perspective, sometimes know when to listen and know when, you know, you're even asked, would you like me to share options or I ideas I have, you know, even asking that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Would be good.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Am I to be a sounding board or just an ear at the moment?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or would you like some guidance?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: A great way for us to end.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Heather, for being on the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Please look into the episode notes, all the details, LinkedIn, connect with Heather there as well as her website and her book.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.