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Master of Dreams: How to interpret your dreams · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:26
  Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the Ten Penny Files.
• 0:30
  I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:30
  Sherry Tenpenny.
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• 2:34
  Now, let's get started.
• 2:35
  Today's conversation is with author, conference speaker, and pastor Nathan Branham to talk about his book, Master of Dreams, how to interpretate your dreams based on Joseph's experience.
• 2:49
  Pastor Nathan, thank you so much for being with us here today.
• 2:53
  Well, thanks for having me, Dr.
• 2:55
  Tenpenny.
• 2:56
  You suggested two verses from scripture to kind of set the tone for our conversation today.
• 3:02
  One is Acts 2, 17, and the other is Job 33, 14 to 16.
• 3:09
  And I'm going to read those for our for our audience.
• 3:11
  So Acts 217 says, and it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, well, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh.
• 3:22
  Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, you young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams.
• 3:30
  The other verse is Job uh chapter 33, verses 16 to 14.
• 3:35
  For God may speak in one way or in another, yet man does not perceive it.
• 3:41
  In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep asleep falls upon men while slumbering in their beds, then he opens their ears of men and seals their instruction.
• 3:54
  These verses are really compelling and really talk about your work.
• 3:58
  Are these the verses that first got you interested in the dreams?
• 4:02
  Well, yeah, absolutely.
• 4:04
  Um, one thing is for sure there's no shortage of uh poisoned spiritual wells out there that talk about interpreting your dreams.
• 4:14
  Um divining through dream messaging and interpretation.
• 4:19
  I mean, it's as old as history.
• 4:22
  Um it you can go all the way back to Egypt.
• 4:25
  There is the book of dreams, uh, all the way through the present day to Sigmund Freud, uh to Carl Jung and the rest.
• 4:33
  Uh, dream interpretation is is on everybody's mind.
• 4:38
  And here's why, uh, Dr.
• 4:39
  Tenpenny, you know as well as I do that we sleep a third to a half of our life.
• 4:45
  We are unconscious, semi-conscious in slumber.
• 4:50
  And so God hasn't left himself without a witness.
• 4:54
  And the two verses that you've cited, the first is important because it gives us uh the incentive to know that God is going to speak through dreams.
• 5:07
  Uh, in my book, Master of Dreams, I I try to do that right off the rip because if God is speaking, and in fact he has authorized dreams as a method of heaven-to-earth communication.
• 5:22
  Well, I better pay attention.
• 5:23
  And of course, if he has uh if he has told us not to uh connect with him that way, then obviously we would want to be informed.
• 5:32
  Uh but this verse, the the verse that you read from Acts is substantiating that in this new agreement that God has with man, that God has authorized dream communication from himself to us.
• 5:48
  And then the verse in Job, it talks about uh really uh a lot of the purposes to which um God gives dreams that we can talk about.
• 6:00
  Um, but I'll just tell you the the primary reason that dreams have interested and uh have interested me for so many years is that number one, again, he told us to expect them.
• 6:12
  Uh, but uh I'm I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, as you can tell.
• 6:17
  I I served in the Marine Corps, so I kind of need everything dummy-proofed.
• 6:22
  Um, and and dreams are one of the ways that that God speaks in a way that sometimes is unmistakable.
• 6:30
  It's like he's shouting to us.
• 6:33
  So I've often referred to dreams as what's called the third voice.
• 6:39
  And uh the reason I do that is if uh if our audiences uh has their Bible open, or you just remember this, but in Job 33, the text you already read, uh it says, for God may speak in one way.
• 6:51
  Well, God's primary way now of speaking to us is through his word, right?
• 6:57
  So we read the Bible, we pray, we ask God questions in prayer, he answers us through his word.
• 7:04
  But sometimes we're just we don't hear for whatever reason, we're confused, we're going through trials or just not hearing for whatever reason.
• 7:12
  So that's a first voice.
• 7:13
  God speaks to us primarily through his word, and then secondly is through the Holy Spirit.
• 7:19
  And there again, that takes growth, that takes discernment, and that can take many years to uh acquire a sharp listening ear in your heart, in your mind as to the voice of the Holy Spirit.
• 7:35
  So those are the first two voices.
• 7:37
  And then the third voice actually is a cluster of ways in which God speaks, because again, God doesn't just speak in one way, he has not limited himself, whether we're sleeping or awake.
• 7:48
  God can access us, access us.
• 7:51
  Hopefully he doesn't access us, but he can act access us at any season at any time and place that we are, and no less sleep.
• 8:01
  But uh that third voice um includes one, the conscience.
• 8:06
  That's that's a uh third voice, right?
• 8:09
  So he speaks to us through, man.
• 8:10
  I just don't feel right, or man, I feel guilty.
• 8:13
  That's our conscience.
• 8:14
  Then he'll also speak to us through other people.
• 8:17
  Um God hasn't meant believers to live our lives in isolation.
• 8:23
  Proverbs says that the one that separates themselves, that that doesn't fellowship, doesn't go to church, doesn't find themselves regularly around believers.
• 8:33
  It says that they break out against common sense and good wisdom, and it's all because they're selfish, and that's a very dangerous place to be.
• 8:42
  So having others around us, they can be the very voice of God to us.
• 8:46
  Here's another way that God speaks, and that is open doors.
• 8:50
  What doors is God opening for you?
• 8:53
  Well, sometimes it's very obvious.
• 8:55
  Oh, that opportunity, yeah, that's God.
• 8:58
  Oh, that opportunity, that's not God.
• 9:01
  God shut that door.
• 9:02
  But those are some of the ways that we find God speaking through what again I call the third voice, dreams, uh, being one of those primary ways.
• 9:11
  And you notice that in the verse you read out of Acts, that gives us some of the foundation of how God is going to communicate and relate to us that dreams and visions, by the way, those are two of the major ways.
• 9:26
  And just to differentiate and to make clear, a dream is simply a vision while you're sleeping.
• 9:33
  We probably know that.
• 9:35
  But a vision is the same thing, except when you're awake, can be with your eyes closed, and we call these open visions.
• 9:44
  You can have visions while you're awake with your eyes open, and it pops up kind of like a screen in front of you, which I can't say that I've had a whole lot of those.
• 9:52
  I've had a lot of, of course, sleeping dreams, uh, and I've had a whole lot of semi-conscious dreams that are contained right here in Job that maybe we can.
• 10:00
  Can talk about.
• 10:00
  And those are powerful.
• 10:02
  But I've also had a lot of um uh visions while I just close my eyes.
• 10:07
  And I think this is related to what we call the word of knowledge or the word of wisdom.
• 10:13
  So kind of a long-winded answer to say there's just a lot of things I relate to and and find interesting and fascinating about dreams.
• 10:23
  So this is kind of some of the reasons why I got interested in dreams.
• 10:27
  And I've been dreaming since I was a young young man.
• 10:30
  So uh some very powerful ways in which God has impacted my life through dreams.
• 10:37
  You know, I have friends that tell me that you know, they they dream all night long and they get up feeling exhausted because they've just been they've been more active in their dream state than they really are in their awake human state.
• 10:50
  And I've had people that you know, they're dreaming all the time and they're always coming up with things.
• 10:55
  What about people that don't dream?
• 10:57
  Or that if they do dream, they just don't remember their dreams.
• 11:02
  Yeah, that's a great question.
• 11:03
  Um, well, uh dreams are uh they occur with everybody.
• 11:10
  Uh and that for those that don't dream a lot, sometimes that indicates uh a lack of good quality sleep.
• 11:16
  That's just kind of on the natural level.
• 11:18
  Okay.
• 11:18
  So if you're a light sleeper, if you don't get into REM sleep, which we find a lot of dreaming taking place at.
• 11:24
  So generally those that have a lot of dreams, they remember them because they're getting at least decent sleep, or they're able to uh mentally get into a place where their sleep is deep enough that they can dream and then remember them.
• 11:37
  So those that don't dream a lot or don't remember them, it's simply uh a few factors, they're not getting enough sleep, or I'll just put it this way God isn't giving them a ton of dreams, and listen, that's okay.
• 11:50
  So we'll take uh myself as exhibit B.
• 11:54
  That is someone that kind of dreams a lot, like you've just described, somebody that they're kind of up a lot, it's waking them up.
• 12:01
  I that happens to me quite a bit.
• 12:03
  Exhibit A is maybe someone that doesn't dream a lot, and when they do, it's kind of like I remember, so this has got to be important.
• 12:13
  So those are some of the reasons maybe why people are dreaming a lot or not.
• 12:17
  But let me just share this with you.
• 12:19
  As it regards dream interpretation and God speaking to you through dreams, if I had a choice as to whether to be B or A, A dreaming very infrequently and really remembering them, I would choose A.
• 12:32
  Not that I don't want to sleep well.
• 12:35
  It's because I would rather have less to choose from and less to interpret and discern.
• 12:42
  Hey, is this me?
• 12:44
  Is this God or is this the devil?
• 12:47
  Because if I have 10 dreams a night, like last night, I I if I thought about I probably had at least three that I remember.
• 12:55
  And were any of those significant?
• 12:58
  Maybe.
• 12:59
  So the first person that doesn't dream a lot, I think they for the dream interpreter, they might have a more enviable position.
• 13:08
  So does that answer your question?
• 13:09
  Yeah, interesting, because I'm in that category.
• 13:12
  I don't, I don't dream very often, or at least if I I get a lot of REM sleep at night because I have a little app that follows my sleep.
• 13:19
  Oh, good.
• 13:20
  So I get REM sleep at night, but I just don't, I don't dream or I don't I wake up not remembering my dreams.
• 13:26
  And when I do wake up and remember a dream, it's like an event.
• 13:29
  It's like this must mean something really important because I really remembered it.
• 13:34
  But I'm curious as why dreams always have so much mystery and symbolism.
• 13:40
  And if God's trying to talk to us and say, do this or don't do that, or I want you to go in this direction, why doesn't he just tell us that straightforward in our dreams?
• 13:50
  Why does he make it have to be subject to interpretation with all the symbolism?
• 13:55
  Yeah, it would be nice if the if the dreams we had were just plain no nonsense, literal messages.
• 14:03
  So in the Bible, um, there are I think about 30 plus dreams and visions, which I cover in depth.
• 14:12
  Uh and I hope you don't mind that I share this, but uh I've got a webpage, it's called the KingdomCurrent.com, the KingdomCurrent.com.
• 14:20
  And I've got about six hours worth of podcast uh teaching on dreams.
• 14:27
  I think you'll find that in season one, you can check that out.
• 14:30
  But I cover every dream in the scripture.
• 14:33
  So we start in Genesis, we go all the way through Acts, uh, in which dreams are contained.
• 14:39
  Now, uh the the problem with dreams, if there is a problem, is most of them, like in the Bible, are symbolic, right?
• 14:49
  So again, if it's the dream like when uh Gabriel showed up to Joseph and he said, Hey, you're in danger.
• 14:55
  Take the baby Jesus and go to Egypt.
• 14:58
  You need to get out of here.
• 14:59
  Like, wouldn't that be nice if all of our dreams were like that?
• 15:01
  It would be wonderful.
• 15:02
  So simple.
• 15:04
  You wouldn't need folks that maybe have a little uh intuition or or some idea of what God is saying.
• 15:11
  But to to answer your question directly, why does God make dreams in which you need a cipher?
• 15:19
  Why do we have to interpret them?
• 15:21
  Here's the answer.
• 15:23
  Proverbs 25, one, and let me just confirm that I've got that verse, right?
• 15:28
  Because I don't want to misquote that.
• 15:31
  But Proverbs 25, oh, verse 2.
• 15:34
  Well, one verse off.
• 15:35
  Listen to this.
• 15:36
  It says, It is the glory of God to conceal a matter.
• 15:40
  So, in other words, this this reveals God's glory.
• 15:44
  So it's a glory of God, it's the glory of God to conceal a matter.
• 15:47
  And here's our part, but the glory of kings to search out a matter.
• 15:52
  So the reason that God would put a message behind pictures and behind symbols is because he's trying to capture our attention, and he's trying to get us on to a God glorifying uh uh glory bringing matter and endeavor to him.
• 16:14
  And so if you go back to uh one of the first very symbolic dreams that we have in the Bible, which the title of my book is based off of Master of Dreams, um, Joseph, it says that uh he was going to his brothers.
• 16:30
  You remember Joseph was favored, his father made him a coat of many colors, and uh he was kind of the the prima donna, he was the spoiled brat, he was the pipsqueak at that time he was he was the the youngest one, and his father favored him and said him basically over his 10 older brothers, and you could understand how they felt about that.
• 16:51
  Well, he's he's coming to his brothers and they they jokingly say, Hey, look, here comes the Baal Hakalamath, which is in Hebrew, here comes the master of dreams, you know, because the dreams that he had, they were they were symbolic.
• 17:06
  You remember the first dream that he told his brothers, he said, Hey brothers, listen to this dream that God gave me.
• 17:11
  He said, your 10 sheaves or your bundles of grain were bowing down to me.
• 17:19
  And then he had a second, and he said, in this dream, the sun, moon, and stars, they were all bowing down to me.
• 17:27
  And uh or divining or determining the will of God through dreams was so natural to them, they didn't need it explained.
• 17:36
  They realized that, oh, this picture of sheaves and celestial bodies bowing down, uh, they they the message is that we were going to bow down to Joseph.
• 17:48
  So they understood how to interpret a symbol.
• 17:50
  But to answer the question, uh this God wants to, he wants to bring wonder.
• 17:56
  You know, God is He is the original creative.
• 18:00
  God is an artist by trade.
• 18:03
  It says that he is the author and the finisher of our salvation.
• 18:07
  He wrote us a wonderful book called the Bible, right?
• 18:10
  So God is the grand artist and dreaming and visions of the night when they're symbolic is how God kind of shows off his creative side and then pulls us into the joy and mystery of determining what he's saying.
• 18:29
  It's it's somewhat it can be kind of fun sometimes.
• 18:33
  Is there science behind this about dream interpretation?
• 18:37
  And is there uh a methodology to do to doing dream interpretation?
• 18:43
  Like I know that there's a lot of books out there, they're called dream dictionaries that you can look up.
• 18:47
  I had a dream about a cat jumping out of a tree.
• 18:50
  Does that mean anything?
• 18:52
  Yeah, that's a good well.
• 18:53
  Let me ask you, how do you feel about cats?
• 18:55
  Um, they're not my favorite.
• 18:57
  Sorry, don't answer as I offend if I offended anybody.
• 19:00
  I'm a dog.
• 19:01
  No, well, hey, I'm on team dog too, so you'll probably hear my dog in the background.
• 19:05
  Anyway, so yeah, not to offend cat folks, but uh uh let me say this.
• 19:09
  Yeah, this is this is a really important question because there is a science and a method behind Bible interpretation, and I would say that it's found in hermeneutics, which just so happens that this is the science of Bible interpretation.
• 19:28
  In other words, the way that you and I should be interpreting our dreams is to begin at the Bible.
• 19:36
  Now, here's the thing.
• 19:38
  As stated at the top of the broadcast today, there is no shortage of uh dream interpretation material.
• 19:46
  You can go back, uh I can't remember the particular name, but uh, but a Roman historian and author uh wrote a book that was about dream interpretation.
• 19:57
  Listen, it's a point, it's a poisoned well.
• 19:59
  It's a
• 20:00
  Painted well.
• 20:00
  So what I was going to say is my book, I just to let folks know if they happen to purchase this, which I would encourage you to do.
• 20:08
  I think uh the best thing about it is this may surprise you is not necessarily what I write, even though I think it's decent.
• 20:16
  Uh it's really the source material that I pull from and the 40 plus uh different footnotes that you have at the bottom of the page that contain resources about biblical sources of dream interpretation.
• 20:33
  So, uh, let me point this out.
• 20:35
  Uh on my side here, I've got a stack of books, uh, most of which I've read.
• 20:40
  These are all most of them, except the Dream Encyclopedia.
• 20:43
  That's a secular source.
• 20:44
  But all of these are books on how to hear God through your dreams.
• 20:49
  Um, this is a really interesting one.
• 20:52
  Understanding the dreams you dream by Ira Milligan.
• 20:54
  Now, the thing that people really like because it makes it easy, Doctor, is they want a dream encyclopedia or a dream dictionary.
• 21:04
  What you'll notice here is it just so happens that I opened up.
• 21:08
  This is going to give you uh the meaning of what I just opened up to a baseball game.
• 21:15
  So if you if you uh have a dream about a baseball game, it will tell you.
• 21:19
  And let me just see if I can find cat just since we're talking about it.
• 21:23
  Um, I can't find it right off.
• 21:27
  But um, if I found animals, I'm sure I could.
• 21:30
  But it goes through and it has all these things, you know, that you can say, oh, well, that's that that's what that means, and this is what that means.
• 21:36
  That is easy.
• 21:38
  That's like spin spin, spoon feeding a baby.
• 21:41
  Let me ask you, um, Dr.
• 21:42
  Tenpenny, if I could.
• 21:44
  If someone said, Doctor, I am 500 pounds overweight, and I could either go on a diet and maybe lose 100 pounds in three years if I go on a strict diet, or I could do a GLP one for six months and drop 200 pounds and get off it right away.
• 22:04
  I promise I will.
• 22:06
  What would you recommend?
• 22:08
  A diet.
• 22:09
  Okay, well, I know you would, but okay, some might say, well, take the shortcut, right?
• 22:15
  Because that's the easiest.
• 22:16
  So to answer your question, there's a science and method behind dream interpretation.
• 22:22
  What I want to encourage people is don't take the shortcut.
• 22:26
  You can.
• 22:26
  Listen, I've I've opened the dream dictionary and the dream encyclopedia a lot.
• 22:31
  But here's the problem with that.
• 22:33
  It's a shortcut, and dream messaging is specific to the dreamer.
• 22:40
  In other words, God is going to speak to you in a language that you can understand.
• 22:46
  So, for example, we can move on after this, but for example, uh, God gives the Bible character Gideon, he gives his enemies a dream.
• 22:57
  Gideon goes to the camp.
• 22:59
  Gideon listens to the Midianites.
• 23:01
  Two guys are having a conversation.
• 23:03
  One guy says, Hey, I had a dream.
• 23:05
  And he says, a barley roll rolled through our camp, destroyed the camp.
• 23:09
  And the other guy said, Well, that's gotta be Gideon.
• 23:12
  You say, What?
• 23:13
  How is that related in any way?
• 23:15
  Well, here's why.
• 23:17
  Culturally speaking, that said to them, it was it was a colloquialism in picture.
• 23:22
  That is a cultural uh uh reference that they understood and that they could interpret.
• 23:29
  So uh similarly, when we talk, let's use this as an example.
• 23:33
  We probably don't have a ton of snake lovers in the audience.
• 23:38
  Are you you don't happen to be a snake lover, do you, Doctor?
• 23:40
  Okay, either way, okay.
• 23:41
  That's about my reaction too.
• 23:44
  Yeah, we have we have probably very few.
• 23:46
  If we do, again, we apologize.
• 23:48
  We're not trying to offend you.
• 23:49
  But if you had a dream with a snake in it, more than likely, it would probably be negative.
• 23:56
  However, however, and we see that now from the scripture, right?
• 23:59
  Because who did Satan show up as in the garden?
• 24:03
  A serpent, right?
• 24:04
  He's the old serpent the devil, according to Revelation.
• 24:07
  That sim symbolism tells us that, yeah, this is probably negative.
• 24:12
  However, let's say you have that random snake lover out there, and God's speaking to them.
• 24:17
  Could he use the serpent as a positive symbol?
• 24:21
  Yes.
• 24:22
  But dream dictionaries will not always be able to tell you that.
• 24:26
  Now, you say, well, then neither would the Bible.
• 24:28
  Well, it certainly would, actually.
• 24:30
  Jesus, here's kind of a different uh illustration.
• 24:34
  Uh, the Bible says that Satan goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
• 24:38
  So you may see a dream uh a lion in your dream and say, Well, that's gotta be Satan.
• 24:42
  Well, on the other hand, Jesus is the line of the tribe of Judah.
• 24:46
  What's the lion doing?
• 24:47
  How do you feel?
• 24:48
  Etc.
• 24:49
  etc.
• 24:50
  So there certainly is a science and methodology.
• 24:54
  I beg and I plead, those that are watching, stay away from new age sources.
• 25:00
  Stay away, even from kind of common sense cultural interpretation.
• 25:06
  Get in your Bible, get some good Christian resources.
• 25:10
  And again, I think my my book is it's just it's really small.
• 25:14
  You could literally read through it probably in an hour, and and you would have a good handle on how to understand dreams, but then it would get you started to really being able to interpret your your dreams in a personal and more important holy spirit way.
• 25:31
  Yeah, which is the key to all of it, right?
• 25:33
  You want to have the Holy Spirit's fingers on it because he's the one who sort of gives you the dreams.
• 25:38
  He's like a messenger from God and just sort of, you know, whispers in your ear, and you can feel him excuse me, around you in all kinds of circumstances.
• 25:47
  You know, you walk into a room and the setting isn't quite right.
• 25:50
  You know, it's like the spirit is like on guard for you.
• 25:53
  So this is a great place right here for us to take a break.
• 25:57
  Um, and to hold that thought because we're going to come back and talk more about dream interpretation.
• 26:02
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• 26:28
  If you've missed any of our great conversations, you can find the 10penny files on Spotify, Pandora, Apple, Tune In, iHeart Virtual Studio, and on any of my platforms, which is DRTenpenny.com, DR10penny.substack.com, and on Instagram X and Rumble under at Busy Dr.
• 26:49
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• 33:39
  Well, welcome back, everyone.
• 33:41
  Today we're talking with Pastor Nathan Branham to talk about his book, Master of Dreams, How to Interpret Your Dreams, and it's based on Joseph's experience.
• 33:51
  Let me tell you a little bit more about Pastor Nathan Branham.
• 33:54
  Pastor Branham is was rescued out of a lifestyle of drugs and alcohol as a teen, and he had a transformational encounter with Jesus.
• 34:02
  He then went on to serve in the U.S.
• 34:04
  Marine Corps.
• 34:05
  He went to be a minister at a Lima rescue mission.
• 34:08
  And he's been there, he was there for nearly 10 years.
• 34:10
  He currently resides in Lima, Ohio, where he serves as the lead pastor of Grace Fellowship Church as an author and conference speaker.
• 34:18
  He is passionate about seeing believers empowered by the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
• 34:23
  He and his wife Julie have been married for over 25 years and have three amazing children.
• 34:29
  Pastor Nathan, thank you so much for coming on the show today and talking about this really interesting topic.
• 34:36
  How is it that God has used dreams to lead you through your life?
• 34:41
  Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me on, Dr.
• 34:44
  Tempenny.
• 34:44
  It's such a pleasure.
• 34:46
  And let me just thank you from the body of Christ for what you're doing, the battles that you have fought and continue to fight.
• 34:56
  You are a warrior, and we thank you for what you're doing.
• 35:01
  So thank you so much.
• 35:02
  Um yeah, so um so many times uh God has uh used dreams in my life and has helped me as as a pastor.
• 35:13
  Uh, and uh before I started pastoring in 2010, prior to that, I ministered at the Lima Rescue Mission.
• 35:20
  And uh prior to that, as you already stayed, I was in the Marine Corps.
• 35:23
  So God has used dreams in my life many, many times.
• 35:26
  And and I want to reference this.
• 35:28
  I think this will be really important because this will kind of show some some nuance and difference in dreams.
• 35:33
  Of course, we define dreams as uh visions while you're sleeping, so everyone has those.
• 35:39
  Uh, but uh one of the verses that you shared at the very beginning uh is found in Job 33.
• 35:46
  I just want to point this out.
• 35:48
  We talked about what the third voice was, and that's dreams along with other ways God speaks to us.
• 35:53
  Um, but we also see uh some of the different ways in our sleep that God speaks to us.
• 36:01
  Let me just share this with you, and then I'll kind of share uh how God spoke to me.
• 36:05
  And in one of these times, it says, for this is Job 33, 14, for God may speak in one way and then another, yet man doesn't perceive it.
• 36:12
  Then in a dream in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls upon men, when slumbering on their beds, he opens the ears of men.
• 36:20
  So let me just share one of the ways that God helped me and along with a good friend, uh, through a dream.
• 36:27
  So uh when you look at this verse here in Job 33, verse 15, it says, While slumbering on their beds, and the idea there is twilight.
• 36:38
  And so there's a time you're probably aware of this.
• 36:41
  Sometimes you'll wake up and you're half sleeping and you're half awake.
• 36:46
  Uh there was one time I had a good friend.
• 36:49
  We were going to seminary together.
• 36:51
  He said, Hey, Nathan, he said, I know you kind of like the prophetic.
• 36:54
  He said, I'm really struggling right now with my ministry.
• 36:57
  He was doing a faith ministry where he had to believe for the phones.
• 37:00
  He was really struggling.
• 37:01
  So he was kind of bitter.
• 37:03
  So anyway, I kind of forgot about it, and then one day I actually took a nap, and I was just in that what uh Job 3315 says, slumbering in the twilight on your bed, halfway in sleep, halfway out.
• 37:15
  And I heard my friend, I just heard it.
• 37:19
  He was saying bad things to God.
• 37:21
  I didn't know what it was.
• 37:22
  I just knew it was very negative.
• 37:24
  And so I shot him a text.
• 37:26
  I said, Hey, brother, I said, I I just heard you in the spirit saying negative things to God.
• 37:33
  And he was freaked out.
• 37:35
  He he texted me.
• 37:36
  He said, he said, you wouldn't believe it.
• 37:39
  I was just dropping uh this is what he said.
• 37:41
  I was just dropping the F bomb in prayer to God because I was so mad.
• 37:46
  So needless to say, needless to say, he felt like really kind of exposed, really shocked, like, oh my goodness, God really is hearing me.
• 37:53
  And ultimately, it encouraged him because he knew God was hearing, and not too long after God really brought him out.
• 37:59
  But uh, it it's amazing how accurate the scriptures are.
• 38:03
  But this shows us that dreams can also be in connection with what we may call uh the gift of the spirit, according to 1 Corinthians 12, a word of knowledge.
• 38:13
  That is, you may hear something in your sleep, you may see something in your sleep that is somebody else's is active, or you may hear something.
• 38:21
  I would encourage people to share that with others.
• 38:24
  Uh, one more example of how God has led my wife and I and our family.
• 38:28
  Um I was asked, this was uh probably around 2007, so there's a long time ago, but I was asked to uh go and be a youth pastor.
• 38:38
  This is while I was ministering at the homeless shelter, and they it everything looked good.
• 38:42
  I mean, my wife and I basically living in poverty.
• 38:45
  We're making like $19,000 a year in a very bad neighborhood, but we love the Lord and we were just serving.
• 38:52
  And so the extra income looked appealing.
• 38:55
  And so the night we were to give our decision, hey, are we going to accept this youth pastor position?
• 39:01
  I said, hon, let's pray.
• 39:02
  So we prayed that night.
• 39:04
  It was super interesting.
• 39:05
  That night I had a dream of the pastor who was asking me.
• 39:10
  And I was in the church's parking lot shaking the pastor's hand.
• 39:15
  I woke up and I'm like, okay, we're gonna take the job.
• 39:17
  It seems so clear-cut.
• 39:18
  Now, this is odd.
• 39:20
  But when I went to call him, I didn't have peace in my heart.
• 39:25
  And I was confused because I said, Well, Lord, I thought this dream was pretty clear.
• 39:29
  I was gonna be their youth pastor, but I didn't have peace.
• 39:34
  Colossians 3 tells us to allow peace to be our umpire to call the balls and strikes.
• 39:40
  In other words, to determine, hey, this is right, this is wrong.
• 39:44
  I felt so overwhelmingly don't do this that I called him, and of course, I didn't tell him about the dream, but I said, Pastor Dan, I'm sorry, I can't take the job.
• 39:53
  I really want to.
• 39:53
  I just really don't feel like this is the time.
• 39:55
  Now, ironically enough, a year later.
• 40:00
  That pastor left that church, and the eldership was without a pastor.
• 40:06
  It was kind of an abrupt situation.
• 40:08
  I had filled in for them a few times.
• 40:10
  That's initially why they wanted me to be their youth pastor.
• 40:12
  They like me.
• 40:13
  I like them.
• 40:13
  It was seemed like a great fit.
• 40:15
  I called, they called me.
• 40:17
  They're like, Pastor Nathan, uh, our pastor left us.
• 40:19
  Can you come fill in?
• 40:21
  And indeed, I filled in a few months later, they said, Hey, we don't think we need to look any further.
• 40:28
  We want to hire you.
• 40:29
  And effectively, I got a letter from that pastor that left.
• 40:32
  He said, Nathan, I often thought about you taking my spot when I left.
• 40:37
  And so effectively, he and I ended up shaking hands.
• 40:40
  And uh I'm currently pastoring that same church today, and all because of a real uh uh pertinent, powerful dream.
• 40:49
  That's really really cool that you relate that.
• 40:52
  You know, you talk about God talking to us in uh various different types of dreams, symbolic dreams, interpretive dreams, like do it right now dreams, and uh, you know, it's God's way of communing with us.
• 41:04
  But what if somebody's not a Christian?
• 41:07
  And they are not close to God, or they're like a I guess a benchwarming Christian, as I've heard some people refer to.
• 41:14
  They show up at church, but they don't really walk in the walk with the Lord.
• 41:18
  But even stronger, what about people that are atheists or agnostics?
• 41:23
  What how what do they do with their dreams?
• 41:26
  Yeah, well, this is the beauty of dreams.
• 41:28
  I also, along with calling dreams the third voice, I also call them God's secret agent, which I don't know if I've coined, but they really are God's secret agents, and we see that all the way back in Genesis.
• 41:40
  You may recall when Abram uh went to Gerar with his wife Sarah, and of course, she was apparently she was really hot, and Abram said, Hey, Sarah, don't tell anyone you're my wife, tell them you're my sister, which was half true because she was his half sister, and they, you know, they did that then.
• 41:59
  And so he goes to King Abimelech, and King Abimelech's like, I want her.
• 42:05
  And he takes Sarah, and that night it says, God showed up and threatened Abimelech's life, and he said, You better return that man's wife.
• 42:17
  He's a prophet.
• 42:18
  And Abimelech, and he really was honest.
• 42:21
  Abimelech's like, Lord, you're gonna kill an innocent man.
• 42:24
  So he returned him, uh, prayed for uh Abraham prayed for Abimelike.
• 42:29
  Everything worked out well, but this illustrates what you're asking.
• 42:34
  How should people handle dreams?
• 42:36
  Here's the beauty of dreams is people are a captive audience.
• 42:41
  This is part of the genius and brilliance of God in dreams is when you're dreaming, you're a captive audience.
• 42:47
  This is why God sends them.
• 42:49
  This is oftentimes why we miss other forms of divine communication because we're busy, we're distracted, we can suppress thoughts and say, Well, that's not God, that's me.
• 42:58
  But in dreaming, it's like direct message.
• 43:01
  One of my favorite dreams that I call dreams that changed history was of a guy named Elias Howe.
• 43:10
  So uh, Dr.
• 43:11
  Tempenny, do you ever sew?
• 43:14
  Um, I did when I was a teenager.
• 43:15
  I haven't known I would assume you probably used a sewing machine.
• 43:20
  Um I yeah, yeah.
• 43:22
  So, right, we use sewing machines.
• 43:23
  I did that in home.
• 43:24
  I can still remember that.
• 43:26
  And and Elias Howe, so way before that, Elias Howe was the creator of the sewing machine, but he had one problem.
• 43:35
  And that problem was how to, I think it's called the lock stitch, how to make the lock stitch.
• 43:41
  And what he did was he was it was a deadline.
• 43:45
  He promised someone, I'm going to have this sewing machine design ready for you.
• 43:50
  But the problem, he couldn't figure out how to thread the needle because as most sewing needles, where's the where's the eye?
• 43:57
  It's up top, right?
• 43:58
  He had to fix it.
• 44:00
  So he had a dream the night he was to have to give this deadline and answer for the design.
• 44:06
  And in this dream, he was surrounded by cannibals, about ready to get eaten.
• 44:13
  And what he did, he looked in the dream, he looked at the top of the spear, and the top of the spear had a hole.
• 44:21
  And in that, in that moment, he realized oh, this is the design for the needle.
• 44:28
  So we can do the sewing machine and the lock stitch.
• 44:31
  And voila, he woke up.
• 44:33
  It was through dreams that God revealed to him how to sew.
• 44:39
  One more, and this kind of gets into the doo-doo-doo do.
• 44:42
  Um, but uh in my series on the kingdomcurrent.com, again, six plus hours of information on dreams.
• 44:52
  I talk about something called the Deuteronomy 32 worldview that Dr.
• 44:57
  Michael Heiser coined.
• 44:59
  And I bring that up because in God's sovereignty and rule of the nations, he has given not only good and uh benevolent spirits, the Holy Spirit and angels rule over humanity, but God has also delegated to demonic dark spirits and principalities and powers.
• 45:21
  We see this in Ephesians 6, but also again from Deuteronomy 32.
• 45:26
  And in God's rulership of the world, some of these uh fallen.
• 45:31
  We'll call them fallen.
• 45:32
  You might call them Nephilim, you might call them watchers.
• 45:36
  Uh, they actually provide uh for the overall benefit of humanity.
• 45:43
  And of course, this is up for debate.
• 45:46
  I'm not saying this is gospel, but what we do see is that uh one mathematician, his name slips me, you can look this up.
• 45:54
  There was a mathematician who figured out he happened to be Indian from Asia.
• 46:01
  He happened to be Indian, and he said one of the Hindu gods showed up to him and revealed a mathematical equation that solved uh longstanding problems for mathematicians, and ultimately benefited humanity.
• 46:19
  And so I share both of those examples to say this, that God speaks through dreams, and it doesn't matter if somebody is his child or they're lost and they don't know the Lord.
• 46:34
  In fact, I've got a book right here, and this will be the last part of my answer.
• 46:38
  Uh, this book is amazing.
• 46:40
  It's called Dreams and Visions by Tom Doyle.
• 46:43
  And in this book, all of this book relates our testimonies and accounts of Muslims that have seen Jesus in dreams and visions.
• 46:55
  Wow.
• 46:56
  And this is what this is what Jesus is doing.
• 46:59
  This is what the Holy Spirit is doing in the Middle East for people that don't have access to the gospel.
• 47:05
  He's showing up in dreams and visions and revealing himself and winning uh people over to the gospel.
• 47:13
  What about nightmares?
• 47:15
  How do they come into play?
• 47:17
  Yeah, nightmares are a big problem.
• 47:19
  But um in my in my book, um I encourage folks to keep a dream journal.
• 47:28
  And a dream journal could be as simple as having a piece of uh notepaper and a pen beside your bed.
• 47:35
  You could have a note-taking app on your phone.
• 47:37
  I've done that, I wake up, I've got a stylus, and I just write as much as I can if I wake up and I write it down, put it down, go to sleep, and then think about it in the morning.
• 47:46
  But um, so uh in in the back of my book, I have a little graph on uh kind of a simple way.
• 47:54
  If you can remember the acronym dreams, which we're talking about dreams, if you can remember what that means, you can start to interpret and decipher your dream.
• 48:03
  So uh the acronym dreams, D is to determine the source.
• 48:08
  That's what D stands for.
• 48:10
  And I say that because sometimes we may think we're having a nightmare, and it actually may be God.
• 48:17
  And I say that based on one of Abraham's experiences.
• 48:21
  In the book of Genesis, it says that a horror of great darkness, a great terror fell upon Abraham, and God appeared and walked between the sacrifice, and he ended up confirming the sacrifice with Abraham.
• 48:40
  So as we go about determining, sometimes just because we're fearful or we're frightened, doesn't always mean that it's not God.
• 48:46
  However, generally speaking, night terrors are pretty easy to spot.
• 48:52
  It doesn't take a genius, it doesn't take, you know, uh, you know, somebody with a high spiritual IQ to say, yeah, that's a nightmare.
• 49:00
  Generally, when a dream is pervaded by fear, by terror, and there's no clear biblical truth that we can draw from it.
• 49:12
  Generally, we say, yeah, that the source of that is the enemy.
• 49:18
  In my book, I give the different sources of dreams.
• 49:21
  I make it really simple.
• 49:23
  I just say the source of dreams are God, the flesh, and the devil.
• 49:30
  And so it's pretty easy to say, yeah, that's God, that's not.
• 49:34
  Now, if somebody has nightmares, and this is happening because the thief, Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
• 49:42
  And um, you know, all he wants to do is create terror.
• 49:46
  So when you have a nightmare or perceived nightmare, you don't know, is this God or is this the enemy?
• 49:51
  Again, you'll usually be able to tell because it'll be so dark, so diabolical.
• 49:56
  What you want to do is you simply want to use your authority.
• 50:00
  And say, Father, I declare in Jesus' name, I don't receive this nightmare.
• 50:06
  I rebuke it.
• 50:08
  I come against it.
• 50:09
  I claim the blood of Jesus as protection.
• 50:13
  You could say something, Father, release your angels to war on my behalf.
• 50:17
  Say this before you go to sleep and rebuke and bind these dreams from happening.
• 50:24
  That's step one.
• 50:25
  If it continues to happen, uh maybe there is a bit of uh deliverance that needs to take place, and that's okay.
• 50:31
  And all deliverance is is you breaking off any chains that the enemy wants to bind you with.
• 50:38
  And so that's where we get some of our brothers and sisters, and we say, Hey, I need some help.
• 50:42
  Can you pray for me?
• 50:43
  Uh, I've I've prayed with many people.
• 50:45
  We had uh one precious lady at our church.
• 50:48
  Um, she was having nightmares.
• 50:51
  Uh, she got a word of knowledge, and she found out that she needed to forgive herself.
• 50:58
  She was holding things against, you know, uh down talking yourself and not forgiving yourself.
• 51:04
  And and God really revealed to her uh how she could be free uh from nightmares.
• 51:11
  And so again, finding someone else that could pray and agree with you.
• 51:14
  That's really, really good.
• 51:16
  Well, we've only got just a few minutes left, Jason or Nathan.
• 51:20
  We're down to uh just a few minutes left in the show today.
• 51:23
  So, you know, there are a lot of books out there on dreams and dream interpretation.
• 51:28
  What makes your book, Master of Dreams, How to Interpret Your Dreams different than any other books or most other books that are out there about learning how to interpret the dreams that you're having?
• 51:39
  Yeah, well, I think the first thing is it's an easy read.
• 51:43
  It's a quick read.
• 51:44
  It will give you the basics on scriptural dream interpretation.
• 51:49
  But as I stated already, I think almost the best part of it are the references, the footnotes to resources to good scriptural dream interpretation.
• 52:03
  And then finally, um, I I really hope that when people read this and they follow the instructions on how to interpret their dreams, it'll help them become a dream interpreter themselves and not just kind of a fast food drive by dream dictionary user of dream interpretation.
• 52:23
  I really think that God wants us to uh quest and journey into interpreting dreams because again, this is about God bidding us into a journey again.
• 52:36
  Uh Proverbs 25, 2.
• 52:38
  It's the glory of God to conceal a matter.
• 52:40
  It's the glory, it's the joy of us kings to figure it out.
• 52:45
  And dreams are one of the ways that he does that.
• 52:50
  Well, I really think that your interpretation through the the Holy Spirit and through the scriptures is really what sets your book apart.
• 52:57
  I don't think there's probably a lot of books like that.
• 53:00
  And it's a really good read.
• 53:01
  It's very interesting, it's well written, it's a fast read.
• 53:04
  Like you said, you can probably read it in you know, an hour, no more than two hours because it really gets to the point.
• 53:11
  So, where else can we follow your work?
• 53:14
  I want you to give out your website again.
• 53:16
  And I'd like to restate again that the name of that book, and I'll put it, I'll put both of these in the show notes.
• 53:21
  But the name of that book about the Muslims having their dreams and seeing Jesus.
• 53:26
  So, where can we find you?
• 53:28
  Where can we attend your church if you live in South in South in Southwestern Ohio?
• 53:32
  Tell us a little bit about that.
• 53:34
  Sure.
• 53:35
  Yeah, I pastor Grace Fellowship Church, and you can find our church at GFC Lima.com.
• 53:41
  You can also find us on Facebook there too, just Facebook.com slash GraceFellowship Church.
• 53:47
  And um, you can you can find us there.
• 53:50
  And then also I've got a personal page.
• 53:53
  It's the KingdomCurrent.com, where I have some podcast episodes.
• 53:58
  I'm going to update that soon.
• 54:00
  But you can find resources there.
• 54:02
  And then uh you can also go on Amazon.
• 54:05
  And, you know, I've also got another book.
• 54:08
  You can look that up.
• 54:09
  Um, unfortunately, I don't have Master of Dreams, How to Interpret Your Dreams.
• 54:14
  I don't have that on audio.
• 54:16
  But um, if people would like it, in other words, I don't have that.
• 54:20
  You can't buy that, but I could send that to you.
• 54:22
  I I love audiobooks.
• 54:24
  In fact, it's probably my preferred method of of uh consuming books.
• 54:28
  If you would like that, I have recorded, I just don't have that out there officially.
• 54:33
  But uh yeah, you can find us uh gfclama.com and then the kingdomcurrent.com.
• 54:40
  And then uh one more time on this book, Dreams and Visions.
• 54:44
  This is really fascinating by Tom Doyle.
• 54:48
  Tom Doyle, D-O-Y-L-E.
• 54:51
  And uh that's that's a really good one.
• 54:54
  Well, we're gonna definitely put all of that information into the show notes so that people can, you know, link on that and get to it.
• 55:00
  You know, all of the all the listeners that have been following us for a while here, we created a bookstore.
• 55:05
  It's bookstore at dr tenpenny.com that has all of the author's books in it.
• 55:09
  So that they're all in one place, all of the authors that we have um interviewed in the last few months.
• 55:14
  It's all in one place.
• 55:16
  It benefits you to drive traffic to them.
• 55:18
  It benefits us, and it certainly benefits you to end up with a great set of books that have really inspiring books that end up on your bookshelf.
• 55:27
  So, any final words that you'd like to leave our audience with here today, Nathan?
• 55:32
  Yeah, I just want to encourage everyone that that Jesus is absolutely ravished in love about you.
• 55:42
  And one of the ways that he communicates that first and primary is through his word.
• 55:47
  Uh Zechariah, Zephaniah, actually 317 says that God rejoices over you with singing.
• 55:55
  Think about that.
• 55:56
  God loves you so much that he sings over you.
• 55:59
  And one of the ways that he'll communicate that with you is through dreams.
• 56:04
  And he truly wants you to hear him in the night season.
• 56:10
  Very good.
• 56:11
  Well, God bless you, Nathan, and thank you so much for your work.
• 56:14
  Thank you for your time here today.
• 56:15
  Thank you for all of everybody that's listened to this today and are listening to it in the future.
• 56:20
  And with that, I'll close out with one of my favorite verses from the Bible.
• 56:23
  I close all of my podcasts with, whether they are live or pre-recorded, which is Romans 12, 12.
• 56:28
  Rejoice in hope, be patient in trouble, and be persistent in prayer.
• 56:32
  So we'll see you here tomorrow at on AmericaOut Loud.news, iHeartRadio.
• 56:37
  We'll see you on all of our networks where we post on X and Instagram and Rumble.
• 56:43
  So we'll see you here tomorrow or the next time on the 10 Penny Files.
• 56:48
  Have a great rest of your day, everybody.
• 56:50
  Goodbye and God bless.