Latest / Dark Night of the Podcast / Episode 189-Green Room (2015)

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Episode 189-Green Room (2015) · Dark Night of the Podcast

• Roger: Imogene Poots, your name alone haunts me. There's no name. And listen, no hate on Imogene Poots. Though this is a really kind of a horrible thing to say, but her name, it's kind of like Nicole Scherzinger. It's an example of a name so weird and it just sounds so awkward coming off the tongue that it almost like prevents them from excelling. to A-list talent because you can't really say it. Or at least in this case, I can't say it without laughing. Because Imogen Poutz, I'm sorry, who can come up to her and say, I'm sorry, ma'am, you're an amazing talent, but that name, let's call you Jenny or Natalie Parker or something that is a little more eloquent. I mean, you don't forget it. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah. Yeah Roger: I guess that's one thing you can say is like you don't forget the name Imogene Pooch. What do you think of that name, Troy? TROY A ESCAMILLA: Again, all they need to do, Emma Jean Jones, that would have been perfect. why would you keep this name? That's question for this entire episode is why did her agent, why didn't anybody ⁓ your name? Because that's all that anybody ⁓ when they hear Emma Jean poots is farting. ⁓ be real, that's what you think of. ⁓ Roger: Emma Jean Jones! It's kind of like if my like after name was like Dick Balzinsack and like and I was like I insist I am NOT giving up my name. You know, some would be like Dick Richard come on like let's find something that sounds a little less harsh on the ears, but I don't want this to be an Imogene Puts slam fest because truthfully from here on out. I'm going to criticize our name. I'm also going to criticize that goddamn Black Christmas remake that I hate so fucking much. I almost want to hate her because I hate it so much, but then you've got her appearance in 28 Weeks Later, which is a film that I hold very near and dear to my heart and we will be covering soon because we have not covered it yet. ⁓ So, know, worth noting that is definitely one I want to cover soon here. But between that and the film we're going to cover today. she's so captivating in those two films that I actually have, I have vowed to her that I'm going to stop bringing up Imogen Puts' performance in the Black Christmas remake that I hate so much because she's such a standout performer otherwise that I feel like she's earned my respect. Would you agree on that? TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, great in this movie. have not seen 28 with ⁓ the one you just mentioned. 28 weeks later. I have. ⁓ I'm lying. I think I have. It's just so long. Well, ⁓ then the more power to make sure I it if I haven't. But I'm sure I have. I'm thinking there's there's like I know I haven't seen the ⁓ newest one or the last two maybe. So probably had seen 28 weeks later, but I don't. Roger: You've never seen 20 Weeks Later? It's got imagery poops in it. TROY A ESCAMILLA: recall much about it. But this film, 2015's Green Room. I would say that this is a kind of an interesting choice for us to cover. I know it's an esteemed film. It's A24. I don't know if we've covered an A24 film. I was trying, I was thinking about that. I think this is our first A24 film in Roger: Yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: What do you think about A24 as a production company and some of the films that they've given us? Roger: love them. I mean, I'm an A24 kind of gal. ⁓ And, you know, I think one thing worth noting is we tend to really pride ourselves in like going for obscure, I don't want to say older for the most part. We cover a lot of older classics though. But like when we do something that's, I would say 2010 or earlier, it's kind of a big deal, you know? Like it's pretty rare. We like to keep it more classic. And I loved the fact that you picked this because... I do think that A24 has kind of cemented themselves as the forefront movement of horror for the 2020s and beyond. This was really when they were catching their stride and now you see A24 and I think the average horror goer, film goer will definitely cock their head in interest. Not saying that everything that they've ever done is hit it out of the park, but like, I love Midsummer. I love it. I love Midsummer so much. And it just, it is that kind of, hate to be like elevated whore, but ⁓ they put ⁓ put a lot of thought into the whore that they create. ⁓ I think that's one thing about this film that is unique is this whole, this film is a really unique setup, but really once you get to it, it's kind of just a bare bones thriller, if you will. this follows. a very simple structure, but it does so with some phenomenal performances. A group of characters you can root for, people that you feel are real, and I use this term a lot, but lived in. Like these don't feel like characters that got pulled off of a script, off a piece of paper, and were just assigned to some random actor, and they're there for a couple of days, and it just feels like a hollow, like nothing of a performance. These characters feel lived in. I gotta say, it's almost emotional as this film progresses because you come to really like these protagonists quite a lot and their comradery and their friendship. And it's anchored by a phenomenal performance from the late Antoine Yelchin, whom I think passed like right after this, did he not? Wasn't this one of his last films, if not his last? TROY A ESCAMILLA: It was was yeah, he he passed in 2016. This is 2015. So yeah. And he's so great in this film. You know, the quirks he gives the character, he reminds me of another very underrated actor, Jeremy Davies. I don't know if you know who that is, but he was in Saving Private Ryan, Million Dollar Hotel, the same type of actor that really inhabits a character and gives the character. Roger: ⁓ my. TROY A ESCAMILLA: just a ⁓ lived in like you said, but also quirks that makes us, it makes it feel like you were really watching a real person, whether it's just how like, ⁓ hand motions, body, body movements, how he delivers dialogue and flexion. It's, it's a really interesting, performance. And yeah, we lost him way too soon. Tragically, he was, he was killed because his Jeep rolled back and pinned him against a wall. mean, that's horrible, ⁓ you also have, I mean, you have ⁓ Patrick fucking Stewart, Roger, who I, you know, I've known Patrick's, obviously everyone knows Patrick Stewart, but I recently, very recently, in the last couple years, watched the entire, all seven seasons of Star Trek, The Next Generation, and then Picard, and I mean, he's a phenomenal talent, a phenomenal actor. brings so much, ⁓ because ⁓ Captain Picard is not a villain. But Patrick Stewart brings so much compassion and prestige and he just carries himself in a very ⁓ almost like, ⁓ the word I'm looking for? ⁓ ⁓ royal way. Like he just has a presence. So seeing him in this film after just watching Star Trek, seeing him be this villain was quite interesting. I was thoroughly, thoroughly entertained by by his presence in this film, even though you hate the guy, right? Darcy. Roger: ⁓ my God. You know, there's such a grandness to his presence and this is not the kind of character that you would expect to have a captivating grand energy. And then yet he manages to command the room in such a way that you almost forget in certain moments that it's with very evil intentions that he does this. So yeah, I mean, what a great choice. I was shocked that you picked this because Troy, I know if there's one thing we know about the Lady Troy Eskimea is that She hates a gun. Boy, does she hate a gun. And this film, I mean, while I wouldn't say it relies on guns, it's got a good amount of gun usage in it. And it just, didn't, I didn't feel like this is a film that I'd ⁓ you picking. So the fact that you did is really awesome. It's refreshing. And I'm here for it. Thank you for picking this film. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ absolutely. And I will say two things about the film as far as the gun thing not really bothering me is, ⁓ ⁓ like guns and like a full fledged slasher movie, something like Terrifier. That's ⁓ or I don't need a fucking gun in Halloween. Terrifier scream, even though we've seen it many times. I don't I don't like that. I will I will admit that I think it's a cop out, ⁓ especially the villain uses a gun. This one, though, I don't necessarily would. I don't classify this as like a slasher film. And in fact, Roger, one of the things that really is that makes this film memorable to me is the fact that this is probably the film that feels the most realistic, like grounded in reality that we've covered in quite some time. And in fact, this film actually makes several decisions throughout its runtime that normally would piss me off, right? However, in this particular film, they don't really bother me because how everything plays out in this film is like exactly how I think it would in real life. Does that make sense? Like so there's there's not doing anything. There's no other. There's no point in this movie where you are like, ⁓ that was, ⁓ that's that's just a plot device. ⁓ that's stupid. ⁓ that's just they're just do it. No, like this plays out like how I think it probably really would. Roger: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yes. TROY A ESCAMILLA: So it doesn't bother me. Roger: I feel you on that. think that this film is a masterclass example of... creating anxiety in cinema. ⁓ you hit a certain point in this film, the anxiety, it pulses through your body. ⁓ I to pause upon the first time I watched this. I literally just watched it again while working. was, which I'm so captivated by it. I had to get another viewing in, but I mean, there were points that I hadn't watched it in years and there were points I paused the film and I had to get up and like pace around. Cause you, literally are You're like winded. it takes the breath out of you because everything feels so in the moment. And because of that, Troy, because certain moments characters are having to act just on instinct, making these in the moment decisions, it feels so realistic. And I agree with you, people would be making these mistakes. It's not dumb choices. It's you have no choice but act and sometimes you're going to make the wrong call. And unfortunately, some of these characters do. So I mean, You picked it. We haven't said the title yet. You get to say it because I think people are going to be excited for it. Troy, what did you pick for this episode of Dark Knight of the Podcast? TROY A ESCAMILLA: I think I mentioned it's 2015's Green Room. and ⁓ the film, yeah, it's... Should we dive right in or is there anything you wanna say before we... Roger: I don't know. We should, mean, here's the deal. We've been on a bit of a a lazy month, if you will. I don't wanna say lazy. We're just, we're busy. Beavers, Troy and I are both gonna be at some film festivals coming up here real soon, like literally next week, some exciting stories. But, ⁓ you know, last week I had a guest. We've had to take a couple of days off each independently for our own things here. So I feel like it's been a few weeks since we've chatted. And I just, know, like. Please go through the basics of what we expect from our listeners. Where do they go to listen? What are they going to rate on? What kind of rating do we want? Where is our Patreon? Go through the basics. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I feel like we've said this almost 200 times now, every every of weeks I'll check the iTunes ⁓ ratings and see that there's a new rating and we both get so excited. ⁓ but some of y'all, I don't know if it's you don't know how you don't know what you're supposed to do. But if you're if you're listening on your little iPhone or your iPad, it's super simple. You click on our show, you scroll down and there's you'll see five stars and all you have to do is click all five of them. And then hit submit. If you're even more generous, you'd actually type in a review and submit it along with your five stars because it may sound like it's just like kind insignificant, but it helps the show because it helps the more five star ratings we get, the more likely the Apple is to recommend the podcast to people who search for horror podcasts or gay, whatever. ⁓ and then yes, we do have a patron with lots of exclusive content that you won't hear anywhere else. my true crime stories. will be recording one tomorrow. I have my script done. I'm so proud of myself, but that's patreon.com slash dark night of the podcast. We'll have more stuff. Me and Roger are going to be in Toronto next weekend and we have the distinct pleasure and it's so cool. And I really hope it's not the only time that this happens, but if it is, we're going to, we're going to take it in. We have hollow Lake, my film, Roger's in the film and his film meet. are screening at the same festival. And in fact, they're basically it's like a double feature. They're screening back to back. And I think that is absolutely phenomenal. I mean, I don't know how the stars aligned for this to happen and I hope it happens again. so ⁓ there's that. I'm sure if we get a few moments, we will record something either for our main feed or for Patreon from Toronto, just to let y'all know how it's going. Roger: Troy and I will be attending, donning matching crop tops and cutoff shorts and stiletto high heels, TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ absolutely. Roger: ⁓ very much like the husband of Kristi Noem. We're going for that kind of energy for this event. Big bosoms. Because one thing that Troy and I know, we've been talking about algorithms. And I don't know who got into our algorithms, but they certainly are not what you would expect from two gay men. But here we are. We're bimboficationing ourselves with big old knockers for this event. No, seriously, we're going be dressed to the nines, I'm sure, promoting our film with the lovely people of Canada. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Big bosoms. Roger: Home of Nelly Furtado, she just took home a Juno Award. I love her so much. But today, the focus, yes, it's Green Room. And yeah, I say, Troy, let's jump into it. Let's lock ourselves in here for a couple hours and see if we survive because this film has some claustrophobic energy to it. And I forgot about that. Ooh. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yes. And I mean, the film, the film starts guys, green room. If you haven't watched it, would suggest, I would suggest stopping the episode and going and giving it a watch. It's on right now. That's on Netflix, ⁓ who are raising their prices again, those bastards. But, ⁓ because I don't want to spoil anything for you because I do think that there are some shocking moments in this film that you would not necessarily expect to happen, happen. But the film opens up with our, four protagonists, Pat. Sam, Reese and Tiger. wake up in their van, which is somehow veered off the road and they're sleeping in the middle of the cornfield. What we find out is that they have a band called the Ain't Right. And this. I really like again, this is when the realism kicks in, because like if you've ever known anybody that has been in one of these types of bands that just travel and just take whatever gig they can. These people aren't making money. You know, it's a hustle. It is a hustle. It's competitive. Right away, you can tell these guys are just they're they're exhausted. They're grungy. They they have to survive by getting they have to survive going from gig to gig because they're not making any money by going to siphon gas because right when they realize they're out of gas. So say Pat, who's played by Anton Yelkin and Sam played by Alia Shawkat, who we know and love from the final girls. they bike with their little gas can and siphon to go steal gas from some cars that are in a nearby, skating rink parking lot. they get their gas, they ha they're driving into, into this town to meet up with this punk dude named Tad, who, ⁓ basically runs a radio show, like a college radio show. Right. So they have that, ⁓ they, they're to do an interview with him. Roger: Well, he fucks them over right away. This, this, this awkward guy with this Mohawk. mean, the moment you see the Mohawk, you're like, ⁓ gosh, what are we getting into? But yeah, they show up for the show. They quickly find out that the show has fallen through. And you really, you get kind of thrust into this kind of just. Like, I don't want to say loser lifestyle. It's like, it's that hungry artists. it's you mentioned, you know, they're, they're in it for. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ absolutely. Roger: the passion, it's certainly not survival because they're barely getting by. And they're very passionate about what they do. It's really like you get a few great moments of dialogue of them talking about their favorite bands and things. it's clearly it's a driving force for them, but they're driving overnight. you open up and I think Tiger just fell asleep behind the wheel and they just like dust it off. They bike ride 11 miles ⁓ to like a ⁓ where they steal Like bike ride 11 miles. Fuck that. When's the last time Troy that you rode a bike anywhere, let alone 11 fucking miles? No, no ma'am. And that was Ali Shawkat on my backseat. That sounds like extra work. Absolutely not. TROY A ESCAMILLA: And why did he even need to take her? he does everything. she just sits there and watches. We see the whole process and she's just sitting. It's like sitting, but okay. So during this radio interview, I do want to highlight this because I think you kind of get the carrot. kind of get these bands, distinct personalities. Um, Pat, the, the, this Tad guy is asking questions about like, why don't you guys have social media? you're really hard to find. Like you're really good. I dig your style. I dig your, the analog style that you guys have. but you are hard, have no social media. ⁓ you can tell like this, you can tell that Pat is really just not feeling this. he is ⁓ kind of irritated and even Reese ⁓ Tapsum is like, dude, why aren't you saying anything? what's your problem? And I think it really points, it really paints this Pat character as being someone who, like you said, Roger, is ⁓ in business for the passion. He does not want to have to go through this bullshit that they're going through. And in fact, his answer to why they don't have social media is because he says it's basically irrelevant for us because it's about the music. And the minute you start having to spend time on social media, it does not become about the music. And the music isn't the focus anymore. It's like, it's always about the moment that you're performing. That's what we do this for. And when we're done performing, that's the end of the, that's the end of the song. That's end of the music. shouldn't have to. you know, do social media and things like that to promote our stuff. Again, maybe a little bit more of a, I don't know what type of attitude you would call this, but kind of the antithesis of how most people are going to get famous, right? We know what it takes in this day and age of social media. We both know this. I hate it with a fucking passion that I have to have social media to promote my stuff, but it's the only way you do it today, right? And this was 2015. So even now it's even. Roger: It's the only way you fucking do it. Yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: more important now. So Pat would definitely be pissed off today. ⁓ Roger: And you know what I think is really exceptional about this film? Like, you know, it's not like you get all of this backstory. you are thrust into it, day of the event. It's not like you have these moments between all the characters where they sit and they talk about their past. You know, you're you're just into this very realistic, very believable, you know, at the time, present moment, moving forward with these characters. ⁓ And... There's just something about the way they're written and the dialogue they have and the camaraderie that they have that ⁓ don't need these big exposition scenes with these individuals to feel like they are fully fleshed out human beings. Every individual in this band, I feel like is like a real person, serves a real purpose, ⁓ a real backstory. ⁓ personality is extremely different from Pat's personality. ⁓ it's it's a great. example of an ensemble piece and they do such a great job of bringing these characters to life. And so I think that you know, we've covered a lot of films that focus around a group of young adults for whatever reason. And I think this is one of the best setups we've had to date with characters that I really just connect with and enjoy. And I feel really sad when bad things happen to them. TROY A ESCAMILLA: So you say you mentioned Tad fucks them over and how does he fuck them over Roger? Because this I feel like they this Tad dude does seem like he's just generally nice but but why why did you allow these people to drive 100 miles to you knowing that you your your thing was cancelled? Basically what what happens is they they go there for the interview but they're also supposed to have a gig and even Roger: Right. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Sam asks Tad during the interview, she's like, well, when is this gonna air? Because we could probably plug the show. And Tad's like, ⁓ well about that. ⁓ My last show had some issues and I got banned from the venue. So there is no show anymore. Dude, you couldn't have called them, they have stuff like, shitty. Although he does say he booked an alternative, he booked a new gig for them. It comes with free lunch and they're going to get 50 % of the profits and it cuts to this. What the fuck is this? Like a diner? It looks like a fucking Denny's and they're they're playing this like the hardcore punk rock music in the middle of like a fucking Denny's. Like what is going on? Roger: Thank It has no business happening in this. I think it's like a Mexican restaurant. It's like a small town Mexican restaurant. And you know exactly the kind of person Ted is, because he's very well intentioned, but I feel like he's kind of a failure at life. And he's sitting there as they're playing, and he's jamming out to himself, and not at all acknowledging the fact that they're in the completely wrong environment for this. People don't want to listen to this kind of music unless they love this music. It's hard, screamy, grungy. punk rock and it's really impressive how they pull it off. the few times you hear them perform, they're, mean, they're in it. They're sweating, you know, the lead singer, Tiger is screaming throaty vocals, whether it's dubbed or not, the passion is there, but it is not the right environment. It makes me feel like it's a completely different genre, but it makes me feel the vibe of, don't know if you've ever seen head weak in the angry inch when they perform at the buffet and like, it just, the wrong act, but like, TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yes. ⁓ my god. Roger: You've got Andrea Martin there like dancing on the sidelines and like cheering them on. It just, made me think of that because it just, they stick out like sore thumbs, but they're taking any fucking gig they can. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Oh my God, had, had wig of a side track in a little bit. I, when I first moved to Vegas, within the first couple of months I went and saw that it performed and it was a tiny theater in downtown Vegas and the arts district, literally a room, the size of maybe a tiny, really small. the, it was a one man show and the actor performing was so fucking good. And because the venue was so small, was like, he was basically moving around us. Like everything was super close. was real. I'm just beside it was super cool, super cool, but back. Roger: Right. God, I'm jealous. I love headway. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ it's cool, but the back to the eight rights. they end up making six bucks from this gig and they get two bags of ⁓ rice and beans to take with them and they are pissed, especially Reese. Reese actually slams tat against the wall and is like, you motherfucker, you fucked us. And he's like, no, no, no, wait, I can get you guys a gig with my cousin because they hear them. He hears them talking about, we're just going to go back to Washington, DC. We're going to have to siphon gas, blah, blah. And Tad's like, no, no, no, I'll get you a gig. It's a solid gig. I'll call my cousin. It's near Portland. You're just gonna have to go over there. And indeed he comes out a couple of minutes later and he has them booked for the next day at ⁓ 350 bucks. he does warn them that it's mostly boots and braces down there, which is ultra right wing. And then he says, well, technically it's ultra left wing. Um, and it tells them, not talk politics and just play your harder earlier stuff and just, just don't, don't fuck around with these people. and they drive through the night. we get some, some casual conversation between like Reese and Pat Reese tells that fart joke or whatever. And they actually pull over and we get, you know, them drinking and having fun before the morning when they arrive at this venue, which looks very much like out of. Deliverance this is ⁓ middle nowhere surrounded by wood. I don't know how this doesn't look like a bar venue, it is is a concert and when they arrive, they are welcomed immediately by Daniel, who is Tad's cousin. Reese ⁓ mentioned Reese gets of the car and ⁓ he gets ready say something about if your girl is going to be here and Daniel immediately stops him. He's like, don't you fucking mention her. ⁓ And I was like, was ⁓ because I forgot, you obviously I didn't see that since it came out. I was like, wait, why is he so aggr- It all makes sense. It all makes sense. That's what I love about this movie too. It all fucking makes sense when you find out what's going on here. Roger: again, you get very thrown into the middle of it. And the whole situation as the band is learning certain things, you're kind of just rolling along with them. And I gotta say you you've got that brief, very brief, not even a montage, it's a couple of shots of them driving through the night, spending the night camping out almost drinking outside of their van. And I do love for as brief as you see them on tour, you get such an idea of the close proximity of them sleeping in each other's space. being in a band that, so intimate. And the relationships these artists form amongst each other, you're living with these people. These are the only people you know, you know? And I buy that about them as well. So going into this situation, it feels like a horrible decision. as soon as the guy's like basically you're going to a Nazi bar, the average person would be absolutely not. But these ⁓ poor punk kids, ⁓ you know, they're like, okay, ⁓ they're all like, yeah, whatever, whatever gig we can get. But even the setup for this, I don't wanna say it's hard to feel sympathetic for them, but even putting yourself in that environment is such a bad questionable decision. why would you ever even agree to play at this space? As soon as the guy says, yeah, my brother's like a skinhead Nazi with extreme political beliefs. I mean, I'd be like, no, I don't care if I have no money. I don't want to be amongst those people. There are violent people, much as we learn here. And they stand for things I don't even want to be associated with. So it's a bad decision, you know, but do I believe that this band would make this bad decision? 100%, 100%. So yeah, they arrive and there's immediate animosity. It's exactly as you would expect from a Nazi bar. People are not pleasant. The crowd is not pleasant. they pick a really weird selection of songs that they sing here in a moment. I'm like, is this the space that you want to be shitting on Nazis? I don't think so, because none of these people are progressive minded people. these are all ⁓ ⁓ Nazi skinhead people. And yeah, it just seems like such a horrible place to be. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Well, we get introduced to Gabe, who is kind of a main player in the movie. He's like the, I don't know if he's the bar manager or what he's supposed to be, but he comes out and tells them they can load in ⁓ as they're loading in, Sam notices that their name is wrong on the sign. It's the, they have them listed as the aren't rights. ⁓ And go into the green room ⁓ and ⁓ tells them don't block the hallway because the, ⁓ owner is anal about ⁓ the fire code and they're on in 20 minutes. And again, they go inside this room, this green room, hence the name of the movie and it's like Confederate flags plastered Nazi flags at that moment. Yes, I think I think especially this day and age. This was 2015. Again, I always like to keep in mind, like when a film came out, I think we are much more politically charged about Nazism, white supremacy. Now than we were then for obvious reasons, right? ⁓ But still I would I'm with you. I would have been like we should probably like go I mean we can find some other way to make 350 bucks. I'll uber eats I don't know if that existed then but I would do anything but they stay and I guess does have a little idea to kind of poke them And he's like, I have an idea. go out for their first song, but as Pat sees the crowd, these fuck these fuckers, he immediately has second thoughts. And Sam is like, Nope, you are not backing out. If you back out, I'm going to tell them you're Jewish. And they begin performing the song tiger is the lead singer. And the, basically the tiger, the chorus of the song is Nazi punks fuck off Nazi punks fuck off. And it's just, it's basically like. Bad-mouthing Nazis saying you're horrible people which they are but these this crowd Roger I would have I Would have expected someone to physically attack them They do get beer bottles and thrown at them and like splashed and stuff, but nobody actually physically confronts them But this took balls this took balls ⁓ However, they start playing their next song and everyone fucking loves it You get that slow dancing montage of these fucking clumsy white Nazis trying to blind dance Roger: Listen, playing that song, I would be like, let's just take it off the setlist. I think this is not the place to do it. I don't agree with these people, but I'm here. And the last thing I want to do is provoke a crowd of white supremacists. they are not known for ⁓ thoughtful, ⁓ they're not going to be like, ⁓ I like that song about Nazis. I'm going to forget about it. No, clearly these people do. They start immediately moshing. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Passion. Roger: And I do love that slow motion mosh sequence, because it's very impending doom. The sound almost drops out, and it's all this slow motion, violent thrashing of these men just running around. And you do see in the crowd, you see two girls. You see Emily and her friend Amber imaging poots. Gotta say it again. ⁓ And that fucking big ginger Nazi. the worm and the band of was it cow, cow fucker or whatever the band, is it? Cow thrower? TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, cow fucker. thought cow something cow thrower. Yeah, one of the two. But. Roger: Yeah. But you see them specifically move through the crowd. you only get a couple glimpses of them. I like that. I like that they're not like giving this big interaction with these characters. Again, this feels very real. They see them in the crowd. They see them leave during the set. And next time you see them is when honestly when shit hits the fan. So I think that the way this is played out, very strategic and very intentional. I really like how this sequence is executed because you feel that it's quickly building to something. TROY A ESCAMILLA: It's quickly building, quickly it's escalating pretty quickly, because we're about 10 minutes into the film if that. And so they get done performing, they've redeemed themselves, the crowd loved it. They go back to the green room and they notice all of their stuff is now out in the hallway. And even Pat's like, thought, what about fire codes? He's like, oh, we had to get your stuff out of there to make room for the headliner. And so they're like, oh sure, Gabe gives them the $350, they're getting ready to go on their way. When Sam realizes she left her phone, her cell phone charging in the room. So Pat not think anything of it just walks right back into the green room to grab the phone. And he notices there's a girl lying on the floor with a knife sticking through her temple. And that fucking worm is, right there right above her. And then we see, And then we see Amber and ⁓ gene poots come out and she's like, can you call the cops? And he starts to call the cops. But the other one, who is that big Justin comes barging in and grabs them. And there's this whole confrontation. He is able to actually dial nine one one, but it disconnects. and they basically the other Gabe and big Justin around them all back up and put them back into the green room ⁓ and. Seconds later 911 calls back and Gabe answers it because he knows like 911 can trace where this is coming from and he's like, I'm sorry We got cut off, but I need to report a stabbing and so now they're all in this they're all in this room Dead girl on the floor Amber's freaking out cops are aware We are this is setting off a whole string of bad things Roger: whole string of shit. ⁓ boy. And I love how fast this moment is. like, you know, it's not like they made some big slow motion sequence out of it. he walks in, he sees the body. She's like, can you call the cops? And like, boom, ⁓ runs from the room. He starts dialing the cops. gets the phone right away. ⁓ one thing I think that's so terrifying about all of the villains here, and especially Patrick Stewart, but everyone here, because they're white supremacists, And they clearly do a lot of evil deeds. They're so quick and calculated and methodical. Like every decision they make is thinking about the bigger picture, you know? And so in this moment, ⁓ think it's really creepy. Gabe calls, or he takes the call. He takes the call from coming back from 911 and he's just cool and collected and yep, yes, I made the phone call. ⁓ Yes, did see a stabbing. he just responds, you know what? Like he's concerned that he experienced something, he witnessed something happening and that he did intentionally call 911. It's like, it's, so planned out, even in the moment, they immediately know how to like put out a fire, how to gear things into the direction that they can control it. And I think because they're a very controlled and organized and ⁓ unit of individuals, makes them terrifying. It's not like they're sloppy messy and make ⁓ string of bad choices. They are trying to do what's best for them so they can get out of the situation. without a scratch, without having anything on them, you know, with the police as well. know, everything they do here, what comes up here specifically in a moment, it's shocking what they will do to get control of the narrative, you know? And so I think that's really, really, really scary. It feels very real. Like, again, these feel like horrible things that I would expect Nazis would fucking do to survive. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, it's terrifying because these villains are several steps ahead of our poor protagonists, right? These villains are doing things and know things that this band doesn't know they know, right? And right now, yes, the band is freaked out, but another thing that's really chilling is ⁓ how calm everybody is with them. it's just like Gabe, it leaves them in the green room he's like, you're not... We're not holding you here. You're just going to stay here for now because we need to keep you safe. We need to we need to figure out what's going on. So he goes, gave Lease for a second and back in the the green room, Sam looks at the dead girl and said, maybe she's not dead. There's not a lot of blood. Well, worm goes over to her, like literally grabs a knife, pulls her across the floor and then yanks the fucking knife out of the side of her head. Roger and blood just pours everywhere. And he looks at the group and he's like, there it is. And tiger is like, you know what? just, I, we, we need to get out of here. We aren't going to tell anybody. We didn't see anything. were drunk. We don't know what's going on. Big Justin says, Nope, just got to wait. Cops are on their way. the meantime, Gabe has gone to his, guess the, the, what do you want to call secretary? The dude that is in charge of the books and he's like, I need 600 bucks. And the dude's like, what do need 600 bucks for? He's like, someone was killed. Um, I just need the 600 bucks. We see. that he uses it to pay these banjo playing looking twins to, for one to stab the other one. these are what I would think, these are like some backwood Appalachian looking Nazis, these two. These are, yeah, these are what I would expect. But I mean, this is, you're right. This is how far they would go. They give them $600, $300 a piece. These are twins. One of them takes the knife and literally stabs his brother in the stomach twice with this knife. Now, Gabe also makes the comment that it is an inch short. It's an inch too short to be considered. What did he say? Like felony attempted murder or something. So nothing serious is going to happen to you. So even that is planned out and literally within, within minutes, the cops show up and it's like, are you the stabbing victim? Yes. So there there's that plan already in place done that the 911 call now is, doesn't have to be a concern. Roger: They've done this all before. I buy that completely. And it's even when Gabe goes to meet with Clark, who is the accountant and also I think is their dog wrangler as well, because that comes into play here, ⁓ and equally terrifying with his knuckle tattoos and everything you'd expect from a goddamn white supremacist Nazi. He brings up the term, he's like, do you ⁓ want a believer? How about two? They have this term true believers, meaning individuals who will do anything for the greater cause, this movement that they even, call it a movement later, which obviously white supremacists, Nazism. And it's just, there's something so chilling about the moment with these twins because they're these frail young boys, like, you know, they're already brainwashed with this mentality. They're in it. They're willing to stab one another. ⁓ And The one leans on the other one as he stabs him. It's so just uncomfortable and they don't even bat an eye and they do pay them. But you talk about things being planned out that he even says, Gabe says afterwards, like, give me the money back, we'll hold onto it. So that way the cops don't see that there was this big cash exchange. It's so intentional, every little detail they think about it. And so yeah, the cops take these kids away. And so you, the viewer, are seeing these things unfold and it's very clear that obviously they're going to take this a lot further. And the band is onto it through their own assumptions. Like these kids, you know, they're not white supremacists, but they are rough around the edges and they know already that they can't trust a fucking thing that these people say. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Gabe goes back into the room after this stabbing instant. after the cops leave to get worm to take worm away and you get this really chilling moment before worm goes out. He looks at Pat and he says, you're, you're set was pretty good. What was the name of the second to last song you guys performed? And, ⁓ Pat tells him it was toxic evolution and worms responses hard, man. That's the one I did her to. And then he lives like walks out. It's real like he's real cold and just he does not have any remorse for killing this girl. ⁓ that's the moment Reese suggests that they just run without the film like Reese just wants to get the fuck out of there. He is like, let's just go they're going to kill us. Anyways, we might as well just try to make a run for it. ⁓ And of Big Justin pulls the gun on him and is like, you need to shut the fuck up before I blow your brains out. Outside the owner of this place, Darcy played by Patrick Stewart shows up and they look through the van and, like I don't really see any situ any way out for them out of this situation. Like they're right. They, there's no way out. They, they saw what they saw that we're gonna have to take care of them. What are we going to do? ⁓ he's like, yeah, I can't let this get out. We just can't use guns. However, when they're searching for through this, through the van, through the ⁓ van, Darcy does see the gas can with the siphons on it and it gives him this whole idea. he hatches as he hatches this whole plan based on seeing this ⁓ gas siphons. He's like, there it is. He's like, you have a no trespassing sign posted on our property, right? It's like, yeah, we also have a beware of dogs. He's like, perfect. We're not using guns. ⁓ This it. Roger: So quick, so quick, like they're going through the vehicle, what can we use? Patrick fucking Stewart, he enters in like, the first thing you see from him, it's the back of his head, you hear the voice already, like you know, he has such presence, such dominance, but he's so cool and collected. And I think one of the creepiest things is for the most part, the whole time Darcy speaks with a very commanding, but just calm. demeanor, he likes to keep things in control, ⁓ there's a couple moments where his voice elevates and he really snaps ⁓ it just makes it seem terrifying because when those moments happen, ⁓ starting to get elevated and you see just a hint of just how horrible he really can be. But for the most part, he's so controlled and that really makes him intimidating. He ⁓ feels like ⁓ wheels are spinning, like he's always thinking, like you said, three steps ahead. Well, Darcy's five. Darcy is always leading the pack and it makes him such a formidable opponent. He himself really doesn't hurt anybody in this. He doesn't really fire a gun or wield a weapon, but he has this pack of minions who will do anything for him. And I get why people follow Patrick Stewart. He is captivating. He really is. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, So ⁓ the in the room, Big Justin has him at gunpoint when Gabe knocks on the door and tells ⁓ Big Justin absolutely do not shoot them. Take the bullets out of the gun. Justin's like, is Darcy there and Darcy does answer? He's like, yeah, I'm here. And he's like, I need, just need you guys to come out and talk to me about what happened. And Pat says, absolutely not. We are not coming out until the police show up smart. said, that's fine. And big Justin says, he goes to the door. Big Justin is going to like actually open the door and let him let everyone in ⁓ immediately. and Reese attack this dude and get him to the ground. And Sam gets the bullets that were taken from the gun. Now Reese. must know like jujitsu or something because even earlier in the film when he attacks tad sam calls him jujitsu she's like easy jujitsu so he knows these moves because he puts big justin into a chokehold and like knocks him out cold Roger: love Reese's character. You know, again, you don't get all this background on who he is, but his placement in this group makes sense. There's always ⁓ in a there's always one violent one, you know, but I feel like he cares so much about his group. You know, he, he is willing to be the muscle in this group in a really terrifying situation. You know, he takes the gun for a big majority of the time he's holding the gun he has fucking balls. And the way he gets this massive dude on the ground and he's like, I'll break your fucking arm. And he eventually does it really fucking impressive because he's not a big guy. mean, he's fit, but he's like kind of a small, compact guy, but he gets this big fucking Justin down on the ground and he's sweating through the whole thing though. I mean, it's obviously a lot of effort and it's really impressive the things that Reese does over the course of the film to defend his friends. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Darcy tells them, ⁓ again, ⁓ screams, we're not coming out until the cops are here. And Darcy says, understood. And outside, the, the room, Gabe says, do you think that they know? do you think they know what we have planned for them? And Darcy says, and this is ⁓ one of the rare we see him get like violent. He it's like, I think they're smarter than you. And he slams his head. He slams Gabe's head against the wall. And it's just this brief moment of violence we get from Darcy. And then he apologizes immediately. He's like, I'm sorry. You guys have to do this down the road. You can't do it here. We have to stage it down the So Darcy then goes to this dog trainer. What do you want to call I guess this guy trains these dogs to kill. I mean, these are violent. I hate to say this, the breed depicted looks like it's Pipples, right? So it's very cliche. But these dogs are trained to kill and they have a specific word that they use to get the dogs to attack. He goes to Daniel then, because Daniel's kind of been outside this whole time to tell them that they need some more red laces to get this job done. And they need a list of everybody who knows what happened to Emily because these people are going to have to be eliminated or we need to know who knows and who we can trust. So that's that. Back in the room. Roger: What's the significance of red laces? Do you know? TROY A ESCAMILLA: I mean, isn't that is it? I think it's just like a Nazi kind of symbol, like the Nazi flag is red. That's what I was getting at. It's just kind of a way for them to be identified as part of this movement. Roger: don't know my Nazism's. I mean, I don't, I really, I don't. I am as white as they come, but I sure try to avoid anything Nazi related because I think it's terrifying. And I like my diversity. Thank you very much. So I've never read up on Nazis. I even avoid shaving my head because I think people think I look like a stereotypical Nazi. I just, I'm scared. Nothing scares me more than crazy white people. I say that as a white person. So I guess, mean, yeah, I'm assuming it means like, I thought it was something to do with the ranking, these red laces or something. Because you see the boots with the red laces on at certain points. I think when they earn their laces, I think it's almost a sign of they're part of the group or something like that. It's considered a term of endearment amongst these fucking Nazis. But yeah, everything they do is horrifying. TROY A ESCAMILLA: You could be, I just think it means that they are part, like they are truly part of the group, right? They're the true believers of the ones that will do anything for this movement. that Darcy feels like he can completely trust because there's a moment later of significance with the red laces that comes up. Back in the green room, they're trying to figure out if there's ⁓ way to escape. They're trying to bust through the ceiling, taking shit down. They can't find anything. Pat decides he's going to go through ⁓ dead things to see if she has a phone. First thing he pulls out is a napkin that has the word the phrase, Flesh Wolf written on it, which means Flesh Wolf apparently translates to the Flesh Wolf. OK, Reese. ⁓ what is it? Meat grinder, you're right, you're right. Then Reese asks Big Justin to empty out his pockets and. I will say Big Justin's response initially is come search me faggot. Roger: Flesh salad, flesh salad, doesn't it? But meat grinder. Yeah, meat grinder. TROY A ESCAMILLA: And Reese pulls the gun on him and makes him empty out his pockets and he throws out his change, some wallet and Pat's like, no, turn your turn the pockets out. Let's pull them out. We need to see him. And as he does, it's revealed that he has a box cutter in his pocket. He's had this box cutter the whole time. This could be fucking dangerous. So Sam's like, good, good thinking. And then he pulls out slowly a phone. And before any of the group can get it, he snaps it in half and he's like, oops, and throws it. Roger: that everything that these Nazis are doing now, it's like it's not even trying to hide the fact that they should be terrified. like, why would this fucker just break the phone? Like if there was a reason for them to not be concerned, he would have finally just like given it over and they would have been able to make their call. We're fine. So it's very clear. It's extremely evident that they don't want them getting phones that they don't want them calling 911 that the police, you know, they keep talking about the police coming and like Patrick Stewart is like, well, they're on their way. And then later on he's like, they've already come and gone. And they're just bullshitting them with all of it. yeah, it's, this whole scene, it's so intense. And I find it so funny that there's this one moment, not even that's levity, because it's humor in the midst of the horror, but that bit when Reese has him on the ground, he's like, ⁓ if let you up, are you gonna say that you're gonna sit like crisscross applesauce? And he was like, I won't do it. He's like, say you're gonna sit like crisscross applesauce. He's like, sit like crisscross applesauce. And like, just, it's like a bad ass move. I'm like, attaboy, Reese, like you show your dominance. I love it. TROY A ESCAMILLA: And then suddenly the lights go out, pitch, pitch black and they're like, shut up, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? Amber has lights, lights, a joint and she goes over to Justin and gives it to Justin and tells him to smoke it. He's like, gladly. And she's like, good. If you see the cherry do anything you don't like movement wise shoot. Roger: ⁓ TROY A ESCAMILLA: And this is when Sam's like, ⁓ my God, you're pretty smart for a Nazi. And she's like, I am not a Nazi. It's just that people were after her aren't white. and then all of they hear voices ⁓ the door and the lights come back ⁓ Roger: Do you struggle with Amber? that's such a specific line. And it definitely has some undertones of Naziism. She could say what she wants. The people who are after her aren't white. What the fuck does that mean? ⁓ Amber ⁓ go deep into her belief structure or how deep she is into this. It is mentioned that Emily was killed because she wanted to leave. So I'm curious if they're starting to stray away from it. But it's kind of weird. It's kind of difficult having. ends up being a female protagonist because she's very focal. I mean, very focal here moving forward. It's kind of hard. It's a weird taste on the palate having this protagonist who also hangs out with Nazis. do you struggle with that with Amber? What are your thoughts on her? TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, I mean, it's a very interesting character because I mean, she is badass. And I think one of the things is like I, you know, she transitions into let's get it out there right now. She's transitions into like the final girl. I would say we've really downplayed the dynamics here. And so far, I personally think the film has been set up for Sam to be the final girl, you know, for Sam to be the one because she's been such a strong focus. of the film, even though you wouldn't know by our discussion, but she really has been the one, the female character that we've spent the most time with. And so far in the film, Amber has kind of just sat in the background, been in the background, not saying much. So this move to her, you know, this first thing she does that they're like, hey, wait, there's more to this girl because that's actually really smart what she does. So what is her story? We don't get anything from her at all. we get no background, zero. And you know, it's, it's, it's an interesting dynamic because she is part of this Nazi group, right? Because at first they are very insistent. Even Darcy is insisted that you can't kill. We're not killing Amber, right? She, she's one of us. She's not going to tell. We can't kill her. So, then she's saying she's not a Nazi. So she's purpose. She's, she's purposely and intentionally hanging around these Nazis and putting herself in this environment because the people are the people that are after her aren't white. It is really, yeah, it's a hard pill to swallow, right? Especially when we know nothing else about this character and we find nothing else out about this character. Roger: But she is important because she does have knowledge about how this ecosystem operates. The bar, like there's certain things she knows that you need a character on the inside to be placed amongst this group. So I think she serves a definite purpose. But yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow just knowing that she even exists amongst those people to begin with. And it does make me kind of like side eye her. But again, the actress does a great job with the material. and she has some badass fucking moments that I cannot. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ yeah, she is. mean, she's a badass. She steps up and the more you think about it, you think about how, you know, even though I would have expected Sam to be the final girl, you know, to survive, based on from this point forward, based on their actions, Amber definitely is the more capable one, but she also has that awful haircut that all the Nazi girls have that weird fucking long, two long strands of hair. Like ⁓ it's ugly, but ⁓ We didn't see a lot of these Nazi girls, but ⁓ has the same haircut. Couple girls in the audience had the same haircut. So like, why would you purposely give yourself this very identifying haircut to be part of this group? If you're not a Nazi, another thing to consider. So ⁓ Darcy's in the club because remember there's still a whole fucking band performing out in the concert part of it. he pretends that the power went out. Obviously they did it on purpose. He goes out to tell everyone they need to leave, because they, tripped a wire and they don't know they're going to check it out. However, they can all come back tomorrow and he'll even give them free drinks. And then he reminds them if you're coming to the racial advocacy workshop on Wednesday, it's still on, but remember it's a movement, not a party, a racially, a racial advocacy workshop. I wonder what that entails. Roger. What race are you advocating for, do think? Roger: I'm sure it's not held at that fucking restaurant that they performed in earlier in the movie, I'll tell you that much, because ⁓ I feel like there's a specific race that they're leaning in towards here and it's very white and I don't know, I want nothing to do with this event. It makes me very uncomfortable just the way he words it. I think that Patrick Stewart is so cautious of what he says and so aware of having to cooperate with the police. these people are up to awful things. And we haven't gotten to the worst of it. there's things going on in the basement. there are things going on here that it ⁓ makes sense Patrick Stewart is ⁓ so concerned not drawing attention to them or this building. And the way that they set this whole thing up, like knocking the power out, making it seem like they you know, like, like they flip the circuit or whatever the term is, you know, the whole thing went down. ⁓ and that they don't have any chance of getting power back up. So people are leaving. He's like, oh, but no cover charge for the next show. And then they're like, yeah. And look, everyone leaves. And there's a specific moment where you have Darcy and his group walk up to this car where Worm and his band are waiting. And he's like, all right, Worm, we're going to get you somewhere safe. And I'm like, oh, that's so despicable, the things this guy has done, all of this. is because of his violent tendencies and the fact he killed this fucking woman and they're gonna get him somewhere safe so they can kill these kids who didn't do anything wrong. The fact that they are prioritizing and protecting their brother even though he did something fucking horrible. It just shows how sick this mentality is and it's just little moment but it just stuck with me. The fact that they're like, let's hide him. So he doesn't get in trouble for what he did. We're going to make the victims suffer. It's sick. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, but he also, Darcy also does something to cover himself too, because he's giving, he gives Worm some ⁓ ⁓ take with him as payment, as reinsurance that, we're taking care of you. But the dope on it has a red, a red logo on it. And he explicitly says that it's, you know, this is Patrick Stewart. It's kind of shocking that he would use the N word. Here in the N word come out of Patrick Stewart's mouth is like, whoa. But he says to Gabe, he's like, I'm giving him some of my N word dope ⁓ in case that they get caught for possession because then it would, it would frame ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ people of color that, that sell dope and it wouldn't be traced back to them. Again, ⁓ despicable, very despicable. Roger: Yeah. ⁓ my God. Like, yeah, he, everything he does is to cover his ass. Even if it means other people within their organization or whatever term you use, I don't fucking know within this group have to take the fall for him. And there's certain people within this hierarchy, like the, the bottom feeders, like the ones that are there that are just to commit these heinous crimes. they know it, they know that they're really there to take the blame or take the injury or go in and get their hands dirty. And it's just it's just really creepy how this is structured. Patrick Stewart is their leader and I'm just curious, you don't see a ton of it. You only get this one evening, but I'm really curious what that's even considered. you know, the KKK, they have what, like a grand shaman. I don't fucking know. They got some fucking ⁓ lead high. ⁓ KKK master and they've got a title. But I'm curious, within the Nazi structure here, I am sure that Patrick Stewart is considered of a certain hierarchy. I'm sure there's a certain title for who he is, but they really run this as a business. The bar is the business, but there's so many other layers going on to what, what this is and actually what's going on. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ lots of layers. this next sequence, whoo. Inside the room, Tiger is basically he's marking the floor, drawing an X on the floor because he sees daylight shining beneath it. So he's kind of making himself a target. Outside, they suddenly hear a knock on the door and it's Darcy telling them that they're loading their stuff out. ⁓ And Sam are the cops there? And he's like, no, they left. And Darcy's like, it would be really nice if you guys could just elect one voice to talk to me so that I don't have to try to hear multiple people talking at once. And it's Pat. So Pat's okay, it's me. So Pat goes to the door and Darcy's very, he's, he's speaking very calmly. He's not, he doesn't sound menacing. He tells them that they are trapped. That's a not a, ⁓ that's not a It's a fact. And Pat retorts, he's like, well, we have a loaded gun. And Darcy's like, well, ⁓ We have plenty of guns too, so that's not an issue. he's again, very calm. He's like, what, what you guys saw is not my concern. You were just held here for my safety. the police are not coming back and Pat's like, well, that's what concerns us, man. He's like, no, I just want to get you somewhere safe. That gun you have needs to be out of the picture because it's not registered. And if we can get us that gun and you guys will go on your way. Right. And so they're debating. They're like, what the fuck are we going to do? And you know, a couple of them are like, no way we're going to give them the gun. The second we give them the gun, they're going to kill us. And it's like, if they had guns, they would have come in here by now and broke it and killed us. And what are we going to do with Justin? The second we give, give the gun away, Justin's going to attack us. And Reese is like, Oh no, don't worry about that. So he actually makes Justin get down on the ground, puts him in that fucking lock again. And Amber is like, wait, let's ask for a phone for leverage, a phone for in exchange for the gun. tries this. Darcy says, Nope. And Darcy says, is Justin still alive and well? And Justin's like, yeah, I'm, I'm alive. and this is when Darcy basically lays out his plan for them. Like he, says, if you guys don't give me the gun, here's what's going to happen. I came to my business and there was an out of town band locked in a room with an underage firearm. I didn't know. I wouldn't know if there's a hostage in there. Am I in my right to just come in and, ⁓ you know, take care of business as the business owner. And so this is what they like are like, okay, so we're fucked either way. You know, we're fucked either way. So he might as well give him the gun. Reese again gets Justin on the floor, ⁓ gives the gun to Sam and Pat says, fine, we'll give you the gun, but we'll keep the ammo. Fine. Pat, know, naively maybe opens the door and tells Darcy to step back. And we see through the door vent that Darcy does step back. And as Pat is going to give the gun to Darcy. Amber gets down on the floor and looks through the door grate and she sees multiple sets of legs and she screams, they're going to kill us and shut the door, keep the gun. But before poor Pat can do anything, his arm is grabbed and pulled out the door and his friends rush into action. ⁓ Tiger starts beating whoever has him with like a rod that he found and they do break his arm away. But when he pulls his arm back in the door, Roger. Okay. This image is cringe. Like his whole arm is hacked and his hand is literally like almost cut off. It's like, see it like hanging there. It is so painful looking, it's all the way up his arm, they sliced, he is screaming bloody murder. It is, this is shocking. Like this is, when this happens, this is shocking. Roger: This effect is truly one of the most horrific, I would say one of the most effective and realistic and truly horrifying flesh wounds I have seen to date. I mean, it's gnarly, but it's very realistic. mean, these cuts, are deep and They are pulpy and the one on the wrist specifically, the hand is like hanging on. It's like dangling. It is so horrific. you know, we don't often delve into like the makeup teams, but I have to say Mike Fontaine did the makeup effects on this and his team. And you know, we've seen him do makeup effects on the Batman, 2022, the Batman, but specifically sinners. which also had very effective standout visuals. Really, I mean, the blood, there's something about his blood that feels so realistic. And there's something about just the runniness, the flow of it, the coloration of it. It feels very much like fresh out of an artery blood. And it's just, yeah, I mean, this effect, and it's not just the effect, it is Pat's reaction. He is shrieking. He begins bawling, as you would, this is in a moment where like your hero is like, I got cut, but I'm fine. Like, let's go. he is maimed for the rest of the film. At one point, he is losing enough blood that he starts to pass out and babble. And it's ⁓ just, again, handled so realistically. The severity of the wound is shocking, but he really sells it. And even the moment, as the door starts to open and she's, when she sees those boots through the grate, it's horrifying. And the way she says, they're gonna kill us. Like it's... There's just something about the way she delivers the line that immediately your heart is racing. But yeah, the friend step into action and amidst the chaos Reese snaps Big Justin's arm. you finally see it happen and he starts howling ⁓ Big Justin is injured, but now he's filled with rage. So he clothes lines fucking Amber and gets her down to the ground. And there's just so much going on. And again, like I said earlier, this film managed to capture this fever pitch of just anxiety and chaos. when things are happening, you want people to be cool and collected ⁓ under with these things, but that's not how things go. that's not realistic. You would be flipping your shit and you wouldn't be able to plan things out when you got skinhead Nazis busted through your door with machetes, cutting your friend's arm off. You know, like it just, is so. ⁓ realistic in how they handle this this chaos and I just ⁓ I I Wouldn't even say you use the term naive earlier But I want to get pad a little more credit Darcy has them at a place He says there's 30 seconds and like they know that if they don't make a call these fuckers are gonna start coming through the door So I wouldn't say that he's naive, he's just out of options. And you feel that like pathetic, desperate, like rat in the cage energy, because what else are they gonna do? But boy, does it not work out in his favor. Poor guy, his arms hacked up for the rest of the film. Luckily, I think Tiger duct tapes it up here in a little bit, but like he'll never use that arm again. It is permanently damaged. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ he's not playing guitar anytime soon. There is that chilling line once they get Pat back into the room and get the door shot and locked right before Darcy leaves, he says to them, this will be over soon, gentlemen. And yeah, Big Justin gets up and he actually, he's like, I'll fucking crush you. He attacks Amber. Reese gets back on him, gets him down to the ground, choke holds him. He's like, tell me when he's out, tell me when he's out. And Sam's Sam's watching. She's like, he's out, he's out. So he stops and this dude is fucking like you said, he's covered in sweat. This is work. This is a workout for him to put it, to put this guy into a, you know, to knock him out. Suddenly Justin comes to again. So he has to go right back to it. And everyone's like, when's he going to be out? And Sam's like, how long does this usually take? Now we have to keep in mind that, Justin did pick up, did pick up the box cutter, but Amber got it out of his hand. And when Sam's like, how long is this going to take? She says, Amber says, well, until we know for sure. without, Roger, without hesitation, she literally slits his stomach open like, I mean, groin dystertum with that fucking box cutter. She doesn't even think twice about. Roger: And again, what a makeup effect. You see the whole fucking cut. It's horrifying. I think when I said earlier, you know, like that I struggle with Amber too is like, you know, while she's really technically a protagonist, she still has some of these weird tendencies that I think are very in line with these people, ⁓ but coldness she has in this moment, you know, she's definitely an anti-hero if anything, you know, ⁓ and she's willing to step up to this guy and gut him like a fucking fish. Now, I think part of it is for her friend, for Emily, but there's this just cold, almost like kinda like bat shit crazy vibe to her when she gets in these moments that makes her seem very unstable. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She definitely has I mean she definitely has no remorse no conscious no conscious when it comes to killing as we'll see Outside Darcy ⁓ Daniel approaches Darcy and asks he's cuz Daniel again. He's been missing. He's been outside this whole time He doesn't really know what's going on. He's like what the hell happened in there and Darcy says well with a visiting band hurt one of our own Back in the room tiger and Reese break through the floor and see that there is an entire room below and poor Pat can just sit there. He's I mean, he's in shock. His whole fucking arm is almost cut off. They jumped down. They all three of them, all of them jumped except Pat jumped down to see what it is. And it is a fucking drug lab. I mean, they're doing they're making heroin. They're making all kinds of shit down here. So not only, mean, basically that's the the bar and that band venue is a front for this being a major drug operation. And that is why Darcy is so adamant that nothing, no attention can be dropped, brought to this place. This place can not have cops inside of it. cannot be searched, nothing. And that's, that's why he's going to such big extremes. This is his livelihood. He's not making money from this bar. He's making money from selling fucking heroin. Roger: Yeah, yeah, it adds a chilling additional layer of stakes here, you know, ⁓ know, already, these kids are fucked, but now you know, just how far these fuckers will go to hide this fucking meth lab, heroin lab that they have buried underneath here. ⁓ thing I mean, if I, I wouldn't even say this is a great, I just feel that like, if they're aware ⁓ the setup of this bar, I'm shocked that they don't think to check. the meth lab or the heroin lab directly beneath this room, because if they're covering all bases, I would think they would be like, they can easily access that, put someone on guard with that, ⁓ but never to mind. ⁓ It seems there's only ⁓ one way and out of this room, and it's through like an outdoor grate. But still, I'm surprised that they didn't think like, ⁓ this could even be an option because clearly all that's separating these rooms is a wooden floor. That is it. And once they tear through those boards, they're able to get up and down really easy. TROY A ESCAMILLA: They are, they are, but there is really, there's literally no way out. they look for doors, they look for, there's nothing. The only way out is that through that hatch, but the hatch is locked padlocked at the outside. There's no way they're getting through that. So I'm assuming that's probably why they didn't really care if they got in this drug. I mean, I guess they could do damage to their drugs. mean, there's, see like blocks of heroin sitting on that fucking table that they could take, you know, so they get back up ⁓ and. ⁓ did a roll of duct tape. So he does wrap up, Pat's arm. Reese is like, we have to go, we have to make a run for it. It's only a matter time before they kill us. They're going to kill us. We need, at least need a fighting chance. And then Pat's like, said, Pat's like having these string of consciousness conversations where he's like, we have to treat this like paint paintball. He starts to tell the story about how he went to a wedding and they had a paintball. ⁓ and because there wasn't enough of them, they got paired with these war guys, these, these, these, veterans who literally took the game really seriously and like shot them all with paintball. But before he can finish the story, Reese is like, okay, we need to go and recess something really like just sombering on the way out. I'm like, oh, that's it. Just like, I don't know if I would leave the, the, don't know. I don't know if I would leave the room because Reese says, we need to go. We all won't live, but maybe we all won't die. I'm like, fuck that. I'm, I'll stay in here. But they, they decide to, to go to open the door and go out and they open the door and Sam throws a light bulb, you know, out in case anybody's out there and nobody's out there. So they proceed into the, ⁓ the concert hall. And I mean, Roger. You know, this would have normally, like I said, this is one of the things that would normally bother me about a film is how quick you have these main characters and just like, quickly they're dispatched with no buildup, with no nothing. And we get to our, main characters taken out right away, because the minute they step into this, the bar area, that dog unleashed ⁓ and ⁓ the, bite command and it literally, Before he can do anything, it attacks Tiger, jumps on him and starts to rip his fucking throat out. and they're freaking out. ⁓ Reese takes the opportunity to run to try to get out of the door. He can't, the door won't open. So he, he opens the window. He jumps outside Roger. ⁓ even a half a second after he hits the ground. That other fucking ⁓ bald looking twin from earlier ⁓ the shit out of him. Like there's. ⁓ It's so fucking quick. Two people that we've been spent the entire film with and especially like Reese, who has been like this badass. It's just they're dispatched like that. It's shocking. It's shocking. Roger: Well, and really it does feel like Reese and Tiger are the two that I've stepped up to the plate. Like, you know, if it's not Reese, it's been Tiger. when you had Pat at the door, Tiger was the one that stepped in with that metal bar to start beating the guy off of them. these are the two guys who have been the muscle of the group. And so to like get rid of them, now you've got the two girls ⁓ and the injured And it's just, it's so quick. It's so shocking. It's heartbreaking. You know, they don't have a second to defend themselves and they don't go out in some big glorious like, you know, wave of glory. they go down swinging they don't have time to respond. And it's just, it's, so unfair. ⁓ these fuckers, makes you hate. I already hate these Nazis because they're Nazis, but it makes you hate just how, how they are. not even giving these kids like a fighting chance. they're really, ⁓ literally trapping them. They're cutting them off at all the different exits and they are waiting to pounce. They don't have an option to defend themselves. I think it's especially heartbreaking. I think it's worth noting like right before they go to make a run for it. You had that bit at the beginning of the movie where they talked about their desert island song and they couldn't agree on it. And then finally you have this one like really sad moment. where all of the band members confess their desert island musician and one of them says Prince. It's the least punk. They're really just exposing themselves. And amongst their bandmates, I think it's so vulnerable. And so you get this really sad moment where they all confide in each other, their desert island song. It's their last moment together. And it made me feel really emotional because you keep in mind these are very close companions. They are now seeing their bandmates die. like, and it's just this horrific, horrific moment watching that dog tear out Tiger's throat, especially. It's like, you see the after effects too several times, but you hear him gurgling. these things are drawn out after people are injured. you see them still wheezing and like bleeding out and they let it linger. So it's very painful deaths as well. And then it's also worth noting that Amber is also gets grabbed by the dog by the leg. So she's now injured, but luckily by mistake, she knocks that microphone over and she causes feedback through the speakers that causes the dog to start whimpering and to retreat because it's that high pitched noise. And I like that how like the way that happened. I buy that it doesn't feel like. Unbelievable. it's just an accident that causes the sound response that that makes the dog react and like just by. happenstance, luckily they're able to get her free and make a run for it, you know? But yeah, mean, like, your jaw's on the floor. When you see two of these very pivotal characters get offed one after another in very, like, abrupt, brutal fashion, it really, makes you realize that, nobody is safe here. ⁓ when people go out, they're gonna go out in, horrible, grisly machete and, ⁓ knives and just blunt objects sharp blades you know it's just like these people will do anything to kill these kids it's so desperate. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Dogs, mean, being remold to death by a dog would have to be horrible, you know? Sam ⁓ smart. She grabs a fire extinguisher. She's trying to get back to the green room and she's literally as she approaches a door, that fucking dude comes through with the machete ⁓ she sprays him with the fire extinguisher and they're able to get back into the the ⁓ the green room. ⁓ She into Amber and Pat. So they barricaded themselves back into the the green room. do see Gabe going through dying Reese's pockets and Darcy approaches and is like, is he still breathing? ⁓ And says, yeah, a little bit. And he's like, good, just let him, just let him bleed out then let it take some time. ⁓ it's cold, so cold. So one the dogs is being retired ⁓ and because it's worked up because of the feedback and Darcy tells dog trainer to send in another one, even two to finish the job. And the guy's like, Nope, it is ⁓ the feedbacks and issue. just there. It's going to, unless you can that feedback off. ⁓ I'm not going to send my dogs in. So Daniel and another one of these guys, think his name is his name, Jonathan. don't know. think I heard that name. they go back in, they're going to finish the job with blades. So they literally go to the green room and they hear, the group hears them approaching and all of sudden they literally just bust through the door and, Sam jumps to the room below to get away from them after spraying them with the fire extinguisher. As soon as they get in. And Daniel immediately asks where Emily is. And this is when Amber jumps into action and she's like, you don't know. Like there's, she points to her dead body and he's like, which one, which one did it? And she's like, are you kidding? They didn't tell you. What did they tell you? Who did they tell you did it? She's like, it was worm. And he's no, you're lying. she's like, I'm not lying. He found out that she was leaving and meet grinder that song on the queue. That was their cue to, I think that's meant there was our cue to leave. And that's when Worm jumped into and did the deed. ⁓ Daniel tells the other dude that he should go. You should go. outside Darcy says this is taking too long. And then he asks Gabe specifically, he asked Gabe, why didn't you want, there's a moment earlier in the film where as they're putting this plan into place, Darcy says that Daniel should watch the door to the green room to make sure that the guys don't get out. And Gabe says, that's not a good idea. We not put Daniel there. He's like, okay, find somebody else. Now Darcy asked him, why did you not want Daniel to watch the door? And he's like, well, no specific reason. It was just because him and Emily, and he doesn't really finish the sentence. And Darcy goes and gets into Daniel's vehicle and unlocks the trunk and literally sees that it's packed with suitcases. He finds a picture of them together and he's like, ⁓ lovebirds. And then he also finds a wrapped baseball bat and he takes it to Gabe. He's like, does this look familiar? And what is revealed inferred is that this baseball bat was used in a murder a year before and it was supposed to be disposed of. And so now Daniel and, Emily had this kept this bad as maybe like, what would you call it? leverage, you know, to expose this whole group of people. And so he is like, he kisses Daniel on the head. He's like, you worm saved us all. Meaning that Worm, Worm killed Emily, they can't get that, obviously they're not getting away and they're not gonna get this bat, you know? That if Emily and Daniel would have left, basically it would have been the end of their group because ⁓ I'm it's inferred that Daniel and Emily were gonna go to the authorities and ⁓ expose whole operation. Roger: This whole bit with Daniel here because he becomes like a pivotal player and you got to keep in mind, Daniel is also he is the cousin of Tad. So like all these connections are really intricate and really well constructed. There's a lot of connectivity here. ⁓ But All of this goes into motion really quick and for a moment it seems like they have another ally and Daniel kind of jumps into motion. He's gonna help them get out. He starts talking about, as long as we can make it towards the river, we can get away. And it's real brief. He's there for a moment, but this film is so good at just taking you by fucking surprise. And this whole bit comes here when they bust in and he starts talking to them right away, the other Nazi is like, ⁓ okay, I don't trust Daniel. And so he goes back and he kind of fills the others outside that he fills them in on what's happening. But basically Daniel's like, we gotta move really fast. And so they all go down into the basement where Sam is already down there, kind of trying to figure out a way to escape. ⁓ And if you think that Daniel is like going to take charge. And before he even can, again, another fucking amazing moment, that fucking bartender showing up with a shotgun and blasting off half of dude's face and bam, Daniel is dead in this grisly style. ⁓ And just like, fuck, I cannot catch my breath with this movie. ⁓ It's so, am so filled with anxiety by this point. I'm trembling, but God, I mean, it succeeds like, ⁓ my God, this effect, half of his jaw and like his cheek gets blown off and it's just, it's ⁓ so gnarly. TROY A ESCAMILLA: it shocked me. ⁓ forgot that this happened this because there is no warning there. He's mid sentence and all of a sudden ⁓ his fucking side of his head's blown off. Sam still has that fucking fire extinguisher. So she does spray the dude and he's stunned for a minute. And this is, this is when Pat ⁓ kind of into action and he grabs a machete from the counter and hacks the guy in the throat. and in kills him. Like I, I mean, ⁓ Roger: Same. TROY A ESCAMILLA: didn't hack in the throat with machete, you're pretty much dead. Amber gets the shotgun from the dude and she pulls it on another guy who's trying to come in with a dog and the guy totally sees the shotgun and backs out. ⁓ she asks the group, there's no group, it's just her, Sam and ⁓ and she's like, should we go now since we have a gun? And they say, yeah, let's go. Pat takes the machete. ⁓ As soon as they exit Roger again, you have no time, no buildup. The second they step out of that bar, they're shot at and Amber shot in the leg, you know, before, this, this surprised me before she can, she has the gun, but before she can do anything with it, that dog is sick on Sam and Sam is literally molded to death by a dog. We don't see much of it. It's shocking. And again, this is the moment like, well, fuck, know, I normally I'd be pissed that they pulled this with a main character. she has given no fighting chance. She steps out, she's attacked by a dog. But in the context of this movie and how it is grounded in reality and how we've talked about like every decision, you know, they're not given time to make any decisions that this is how you would act or react in these situations. And it just all seems very. realistic, doesn't seem far-fetched. It seems like this would really fucking happen. And you know, if you're thrown into this situation, who knows who's going to survive? You know, just because someone is tough and you know, martial arts trained, that doesn't mean you're going to survive. You know, it's the people that are quick thinkers or have ⁓ quicker reflexes. Those are the ones that are going to survive. So this all seems very, very realistic. Roger: It seems so realistic and it's heartbreaking. of all the deaths in the film, this is the one that gets me the most. Sam is the feminine energy of the band and she's clearly one of the boys. They all respect her. She's never mistreated by any of them or sexualized. She's the brains. She's the one that always plans a location where they're going to go siphon gas. It's just like... it's clear that she has such an established place within the group and is kind of like the sensible one if we can say anybody is, it's her, you know? And so when this moment comes up, because she's made several really good calls over the course of the film, like thinking to use the fire extinguisher in general, that was all her. And now here, right now, like the shotgun, Amber's got it, but she shot right away. And so Sam goes to grab the gun. but she just doesn't have a chance to even do anything. It's not like she's not reactionary. She's ready to step up with this fucking gun. She doesn't even have a moment to shoot it. There's no chance for her to do anything and it's heartbreaking. And I love the character. I love the actress. And so seeing her go out, was like, it made me piss. Now I'm like, fuck. I cannot wait for the comeuppance to hit. But I will say it does. Some films it doesn't. Some films leave you feeling really empty because the bad guys don't get what's coming to them. But several of these fucking skinhead motherfuckers, let me tell you, it is so satisfying seeing this final push of this film unfold because we're entering what I would consider is the finale, if you will. And some people get what's coming to them. Boy, do they get what's coming to them. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ yeah. well, yeah, we get that. Should we get the shot of, ⁓ Gabe going through, Sam's pockets ⁓ and like, you know what, this, we don't have time. We need to clean up. And he basically is like, you can, at this point, it doesn't matter how you kill them. Forensics doesn't matter. We just need them dead. use guns, use whatever you need to do. inside they're back inside the green room and Pat tells Amber that he's like, I can't die here. you and her response is then don't and she's like wait I want to hear the rest of your pep talk about paintball and he's like basically it's an analogy these marines that they played they knew real war so they treated paintball like real war ⁓ and rick silva ⁓ partner his friend just had enough and when the whistle was blown to end the paintball game rick selva rushes out ⁓ and doesn't even care that the game's over and he just wipes the entire team out until they're dead he says and she's like pretend dad we're up against real guns ⁓ this is this will be real dead and we can't play real war so she gets she gets a sharpie and she's like let's let's go inside before their final push to finally kill the final two Darcy gives Gabe a pair of red laces because it has been kind of, it was insinuated earlier on the film that Gabe and Gabe really has earned his place in this establishment. There's still a lot of like a hesitation apprehension about him, you know, ⁓ but now seeing how he's kicked into high gear, Darcy tells him you've earned these red laces. And we need to get once this once this once we're over and done with this we're gonna get back into a normal routine and then outside They are trying to prepare to make it look like nothing has happened at the bar. There's this moment ⁓ Did you understand that that dog owner they go outside and that dog owner gives the dog a shot and he says This should keep him alive for another hour ⁓ and I would appreciate it if you if he could die with meat in his teeth. So what happened to this dog? Was it? I don't was because I tried this. This dog wasn't shot because there's no injury. So why is this dog dying in an hour? I was so confused. Roger: Did they inject heroin into it so it would be extremely like violent and elevated? You know what I mean? yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Uhhhh That's a good point. Yeah. Okay. I was thinking was are they doing something to make the dog aggressive? That makes a lot of sense. Okay. Okay. ⁓ so the two, two dudes go inside. They only have three bullets left because actually the, guy is going to let them use the dog and, and, like, no, don't worry about it. Use guns. need to get this taken care of. So how many bolts you got left? Three. He's like, good. You got one more. Roger: Yeah, yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: than you need because there's only two left. So they go inside and ⁓ the microphone feedback starts to Blair and it causes the dog to screech and run away, break away. So it runs outside. the two dudes just break right into the green room. Cause at this point they just want these fuckers dead. They're not playing anymore. They break in and they see someone standing above the hole in the floor. They're like, who's that? Who's that? And he turns around and it's Pat. And now he has his face. painted like war paint with that with that black Sharpie that that Amber had and he jumps down with the machete into the room below and it was them. They have the they have the feedback rigged inside the green room, which was smart, right? They turned off the they turn it off. ⁓ so the guys are like, dude, we only have three shots left. ⁓ I we go down there or what do we do? And ⁓ the dude's like, yeah, you need to go down there. I'll stay up here. We need to get this taken care of. So the one guy just jumps down there and, he's like, it's kind of searching around the room. It's empty. He's like, you know, screw this. He backs up. He's like, Hey, ⁓ I'm not this. Get Gabe. We need more people. And he's, looking up at his partner. Very smart. ⁓ Amber was up in that green room the entire time. So now she's behind this guy that's still up in the green room. she fucking slits his throat with that box cutter. Again, doesn't think twice, cuts this guy's throat wide open with the box cutter. Roger: spreads like butter. It's such a, just a nasty effect. You see the whole cut. A couple of things that I think are really worth noting, know, Gabe is kind of like left in charge of these guys, but he goes to turn off the audio. So he leaves them. So it's just the two of these guys. Jonathan's one of them. I think the other one's name maybe is Kyle. And so it's these two Nazi skinheads and they bust through the door. They bust in the room and TROY A ESCAMILLA: Mm-hmm. Roger: They hesitate on firing and it's really worth noting that Pat has shaved his head. Because you even see a shot of an electric razor with all of his hair everywhere. And the reason they hesitate is they think that he's actually one of the white supremacists. And then he turns and he reveals it's him and he jumps into the hole before they can do anything. But they do hold on firing on him because they think that he's an injured. You know one of them if you will but it's what distracts them to pull them over to the hole so that way Amber can can sneak up behind the one guy and kill him and I get such a such a smart move and then there's like this back and forth because she does find out that the one guy with the with the shotgun only has three bullets and so she and Pat are calling to each other Pat's got the machete but he's hiding because the guy jumps down there with the gun And so she like sprays the rest of the fire extinguisher. She throws the big guy's body down. She's doing all these things she can to keep drawing the guy's attention back, trying to give Pat an edge so he can like make a move in on him. But the guy's not breaking. he even says, he's like, nice try, ⁓ but she does, you know, he thinks that she's running out of options. She does something really smart here because she eventually ends up lowering Emily's body. Cause Emily being another girl. Obviously he thinks that it's her starting to hoist herself down through the hole and he blasts her in the leg only to realize that that is it's actually the corpse of Emily and so he wastes another bullet on her and now he's down to two bullets but you know Amber you know she's problematic but I gotta say when it comes to fucking ⁓ acting on and making good calls here she's doing everything she's doing everything she fucking can to make sure these two people, to make sure she and Pat make it through the rest of this experience. I gotta give her credit. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ this is smart. They're trying to get, they're trying to get him to shoot all three bullets. And they do, they do eventually. Cause as he's, as he's a lurking around the basement, he approaches the, that, ⁓ opening the door with those plastics door flaps and Pat actually swings the machete at him and the guy turns and shoots at him and misses. And then he also, yeah, he fires once again at Amber when he sees her in the hole, when Pat yells down that he has two bullets. So he does lose. He, shoots all three of his bolts. They trick him into shooting all three of his bullets. funny when Amber drops the body down of Emily, the gun is there and the dude picks up, it's a, the handgun. picks up the handgun thinking that, you know, he's going to have that. And he looks up and Amber has the cartridge ⁓ and she's like, ⁓ zero for you. Motherfucker. And then he looks over and he sees that Pat's trying to load the shotgun. So he literally charges at Pat and you get this whole struggle and they're, Pat and him are struggling and poor Pat, his arm has to be fucking killing him. That fucking hacked up arm. He's trying to fight with this fucking Nazi motherfucker. The whole time, ⁓ has just casually lowered herself down. She casually picks up ⁓ gun that's on the floor. She casually puts the cartridge in, casually walks up behind the Nazi, fucking shoots him twice in the head. Bang bang. Dead. ⁓ yeah, the neck, the neck wound sprays, yeah. Roger: Once in the neck, once in the head. ⁓ something about a artery, a gunshot to an artery that just makes my ass clench. Cause every time you see that squirt, ⁓ But I love, I love the shot cause it's like, it's following her and you're right. it's so smooth and she's so slow and just casual. And you see her holding the gun and loading it. She's not rushing. She's just making sure not to make any noise. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Mm-hmm. Bye. Roger: but this guy just, ⁓ he slumps over and you see some blood splurts and he just drops and you're like, God damn, bitch is fucking cold. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, and she says, got him. And Pat's response is, yeah, you flabbergasted that motherfucker. Well, Gabe comes in from his trying to clean and get things situated to see Amber and Pat emerge from the hole. And they have the gun pointed at him. And they ask him, is there any more dogs or no more people? And he's like, nope, they're down the way. And then he just says, he's just like, I don't want to go to jail. They lead them out by gunpoint through the woods and he asks if they're going to shoot him. And she asked, well, where's Worm? And he says, we sent them home. And then there's gunshots in the distance. So I wonder what's going on. And Pat even is like, what are they doing? And Gabe's like, that's something you don't even want to see. And Pat, he's like, did you see them all die? And he said, I saw two of them die, not the third. And this is when Pat makes the decision. He's like, you know what? I'm going to go to the main house. I'm gonna end this. they actually, they let Gabe go, which sort of surprises me. Particularly Amber, because she seems to be pretty like bloodthirsty and hell-bent on revenge right now, but maybe she knows, she knows Gabe. I mean, she's been in this venue. Maybe she just knows that Gabe truly isn't devoted, as devoted as everyone else thinks he is. I don't know. because even when, if you notice, even when, ⁓ Darcy the red laces to him, his reaction is very muted and I don't know. ⁓ I don't know Gabe necessarily, you know, I don't, ⁓ he could be trying to save his own ass, but they let him go. They tell them. Go to town, call the police. If you disappear, I will find you. And he's like, I will, I promise. Roger: I don't know if I buy this part, you know, this guy has caused a lot of problems. He was the first one to grab the phone and fake the phone call. He got the kids to fake stabbing themselves. Like he's done some fucking horrible things and he has been overseeing and orchestrating a good amount of it, you know, before Darcy steps in, Gabe is kind of in charge in a way. So to let this guy go and even buy that he would go off and get help like No, how do know this guy's not just gonna fucking jump in a car and drive the fuck away? And then the fact that he stays true to his word is even more surprising because yeah, maybe he seemed a little hesitant, but I don't think that he's determined to make good, you know, it's not like he feels he owes these two anything. I think he just wants to survive. So it was a surprising twist here, but whatever I'll get past it. Cause what follows after this, they follow these gunshots here. And he does say like, You don't even want to know, what he's doing is they're firing on the corpses, I think, because they want to make it seem like they caught them on their property stealing gas and they shot at them. You know, that they shot at the vehicle and everything and shot at them. so I think they're riddling the corpses with bullets is what I believe, because they shot upon them upon seeing them at the vehicles. they have the van up beside a vehicle, literally make it seem like there's their ⁓ filling up with gasoline, I believe, or they're stealing gasoline from another car. And ⁓ you see the corpses laid out and it's just like, ⁓ my God, you fucking you guys suck. you Nazis are horrible. ⁓ These poor kids. ⁓ TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, yeah. The Gabe decision in this film, that's the it's the biggest thing that kind of puzzles me. mentioned earlier that nothing really seems like a plot device or whatever or unbelievable. And I guess this moment sort of teeters on that, because I don't know why they let him go. And I don't know why he was so willing to go and actually because he does he goes to town and he calls the police like he does what he says he's going to do. And this dude, like you're right, he has been he's he's been the one going through all the dead bodies. He's been cleaning up the place. So maybe I don't know if he just has a pang of guilt or maybe he does have a conscious or it's just trying to save his own ass. You know, he knows this is probably not going to end well for this group. Now that these kids are have taken out everybody and they're on their way to take out the final couple. so yeah, they, they let him go and then they, come upon, the, the dog ⁓ guy, dog trainer guy and another dude that are actually like sat in the van up. you know, getting it all ⁓ ⁓ they surprised them by gunpoint ⁓ they, they lead the two of them into or onto Darcy's property where they see like the bodies laid out and even Pat's like, ⁓ making it our fault. and says, yeah, guys were trespassing. And then Darcy's there. He sees them. And he sees the other guy and the guy's like, they got my gun. And Amber tells him to shut up. And that dog trainer guy starts to say something and Amber just shoots him dead, shoots him right in the fucking chest. And it's funny because Pat's like, ⁓ so we're doing that. ⁓ she's like, well, yeah, why else would we walk up here? And he says, I thought we were going to ruin the crime scene. She's like, well, we can always make a new one. And Pat has this moment and is again, it's just very human, very realistic where he just like. He's taken everything in and he says, this is a nightmare. And Darcy says, for us all. And Amber's like, ⁓ please don't tell me that's gonna be this fucker's last words. And then Pat looks at Darcy and I like this line too. I really do because it just, it's just, now Darcy looks so, ⁓ I say pathetic. none threatening is it's daylight now. We've only seen him in the dark. We've only seen him in the dark ⁓ bar, the dark, but now he just looks so ⁓ and defeated. And Pat looks at him and says, you know, what's funny is you looked so much. So you look so scary at night. And with that, Darcy just turns around, starts walking away from him. The other dude tries to lunge at him and he shot immediately and. Darcy, as he's walking away, the two open fire on him. He has taken his gun out and he turns around to try to get one shot in at them and they shoot him right in the fucking head and his gun goes off and he's dead. Darcy's dead. Now this happens pretty quickly. And again, I go back to ⁓ if this was a different movie, I'd be annoyed because I've talked about this before. if you're gonna, I always like a film to have ⁓ a big confrontation. ⁓ with the villain chasing, you know, you want to see all that action. And this is just very, just muted and understated. They walk right up to Darcy. They, they exchanged maybe two sentences with them and they, they shoot and kill them. There's no, there's no struggle. But again, this is realistic. It's not realistic that you're going to sit there and have a 20 minute conversation with somebody that you know, you're going to kill. You know, this isn't scream where we need a 15 minute, motivation speech. This is what's going to happen. in real life, is how it's going to play out, Roger: couple things about this ending that really stick with me. ⁓ The line specifically, because you mentioned it, but I want to point out the line that he says is, at night you were so scary. And I specifically want to acknowledge up to this point, they haven't seen him. They have only heard his voice through the door. Other than that, they've not interacted with Darcy. And, you know, think about Patrick Stewart. He has a very commanding voice. ⁓ when you hear that voice, it's pretty chilling. It's so dominant. And now finally seeing him, he's nothing but this old skinhead man with glasses, nothing more. And it is kind of this like revelation. It's like when Oz comes out from behind the curtain, you know? And so I don't think Darcy's used to someone having the upper hand over him. And this bit here where he turns around and like starts to march away, I almost feel like he's gonna... He's taking out his gun. I feel like he's going to execute himself. I feel like he won't let these kids have this moment. he's too proud. He's too fucking proud, but they do, they get him, they shoot him in the leg and he drops. And then he starts to turn to fire on them and they get him in the head. And then he has another one of those good ⁓ of blood that come out before he drops. ⁓ is, it's fast, but it's satisfying because you want to see him go out pathetic. He doesn't even get to get a shot in, you know? He doesn't get to do anything to really defend himself because these kids finally have beat him at his own game. ⁓ And so yeah, even though it is quick, it does move fast. I don't mind it because I love seeing these two get the best of them. ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ have the final moment. and overcome this evil, this literal evil, this Nazi evil. But after the things they've done and the fact that they were trying to pin it all on the kids and just letting Patrick have that moment where he acknowledges, like, you were gonna make us to look like the bad guys. And it is horrible what he's gone through and I'm so sad that he lost these characters, these wonderful friends, his bandmates, but I'm so happy this isn't a film that ended on all of these kids getting killed. their bodies getting disposed of and no one finds out. It could have easily gone that route. And I needed there to be a little bit of an upside. I needed to be there, a glimmer of hope. Cause if there wasn't, I would have felt like the Nazis fucking went out and nobody fucking wants that. You need to have something, some element of hope to hang on to as bleak as the situation is. And I think they handled that really, really gracefully. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ I would have been pissed if this would have been one of those movies where the good guys die. I hate that. It seemed to be a trope there for a while, and it was kind of a trope right around this time period. You've got a whole string of movies where the the bad guy won. The final girl was killed or the final boy was killed. We saw a whole string of those. And I hate that. I just don't I don't like that. And I would have especially hated it here. But yeah, I thought the same thing and turning away and pulling out his gun. He was going to I think he was going to kill himself. Yeah, he wasn't going to be. Humiliated by in death by letting these fuckers who he has been five steps ahead of the entire night now somehow finally they got ahead of him because he maybe he wasn't the the great Organizer and leader that he thought he was because it was his little minions that fucked up big time and got him in this predicament So maybe dude you aren't the powerful, you know Roger: Yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: leader that you think you are. I think that really has, that was his moment of realization. And you're right. Yeah. They never saw him. So yes, they're going strictly by you were scary. You're because of your voice. Like you, you were, you were terrifying and now we're seeing you in front of us. And you're just like this old man that looks scared. ⁓ but the ending is, mean, they all, none of the bad guys win except I guess, Gabe, ⁓ the next scene we do see Gabe get into town and say, and call for the police. I want to know what happened to him. Is he just get away scot-free? I we don't know. Because the next scene we saw, we see a couple. We see like a couple random images we see Tad sweeping his cleaning up his house as the interview is playing on the radio that he did with the band earlier. I think that was a nice touch. That fucking dog, Roger, that fucking dog running down the road. It's it's leash, you know, ⁓ and there's this moment it's. So Amber and Pat are sitting on the side of the road and this dog comes running up this pit bull that has literally ripped two of their friends or two of Pat's friends killed them. And they pull the guns on this pit bull as it's running by and the pit bull gives them, pays them no attention. And instead it goes and lays next to its dead owner. Kind of sad, you know, um, hopefully this pit bull, mean, obviously it's not going to be able to be. I don't think it's ever going be able to be domesticated. It's been shot up with heroin and it's literally killed multiple people. I don't want this in my house. I love dogs, but this dog is not coming near my house. can tell you that much. ⁓ They're sitting on the side of the road and Pat has been the only one so far that never answered what his ⁓ Desert Island band was. It seemed to really give him lot of anxiety to have to come up with an answer. And finally, he's like, I know what it is. And Amber's like, what is and he says, my desert island band. And her response is tell someone who gives a shit. And that's the end of the movie. So I, you know, there's a couple of questions I have. I want to know what happens to Gabe and I want to know what their relationship is after this movie, Pat and Amber. Do they have a relationship? Is this just like they never see each other again? ⁓ But I mean, Amber's character. Again, at the start of the movie, you don't think she's going to be much of anything, right? She's real mousy. She seems to be like in a state of shock because her friend was dead and by the, but she kicks it up high fucking gear. the plan that they have that they hatched to execute those final two guys ⁓ everything and her going to Patrick Stewart's house to Darcy's house ⁓ in her mind, knowing she's going to kill them because Pat, I don't think Pat would have killed them he just wanted to you know again badass character but again how much of it is she's been entwined with this group for so long that some of their actions rubbed off on her I don't know but still at least it's a ⁓ ending for for them I guess Roger: Yeah, yeah, I I love this film. I like the ending. I'm satisfied with what happens to fucking Patrick Stewart and the other Nazi scum. I wouldn't really change a lot of this. know, like, you know, I'm a heartbroken Sam got killed, but I wouldn't change it because of the way it affects me as a viewer. It ⁓ a visceral response. Would I have loved her to survive in another world? Yeah, but it just, it works here. Things like that. But I will say, I think this moment, this conclusionary moment with the two of them and her having such a cold response, I think you wanna see camaraderie after this kind of a traumatic experience. And I get it. I think that they're trying to show that she is this hardened kind of character. I feel like this film really hasn't had a ton of humor to it. So to end on this kind of laughable line. just felt kind of abrupt. It really feels very abrupt to end it on that note. Luckily, some of the visuals that they sprinkle tonally really worked for me. just seeing Tad vacuuming his house, having ⁓ absolutely idea that he sent these fuckers off to their death. there's something really ⁓ somber about it. It's such a simple visual, but it's just he, you know, he has no idea. He's clueless. He's just floating about existing in his little apartment. There's also another visual that they show where you see the band Cowfuckers or what? Cow udders. ⁓ You see them, you know, hiding out at the safe space that they've been sent to. And the one guy has a heroin needle sticking out of his arm and he's passed the fuck out and it pans over and you see Worm just sitting there watching the TV. But he's like, just like, obviously kind of like frozen in anticipation. And I think that he kind of senses what's coming that that foreboding notion of ⁓ come up and so he's gonna he is gonna get his like you don't see it happen, ⁓ just seeing them hold up in the shitty little shithole knowing that all of their friends, all of their their their additional minions, all of the fellow Nazis ⁓ been killed off by these kids. ⁓ just a matter of time before they get captured. And that's all you need to see there. You didn't need to see more. I'm fine with that. But I do feel like this moment between the two of them, would I have liked to have seen something more come from it? Kind of, I would have. I think it's just because I've come to really like these characters. And I really wanted something, I don't wanna say redeeming from Amber, but again, there's several questionable traits about who she is that makes, it makes it hard to root for her. So I would have loved to have seen something come from her. Aside from her just being a badass, you know, she did a great job. She shot that one dude right away. she is not, she has no hesitation killing off any of these fuckers, but for her to be so cold towards Pat after them getting through all of this together was just kind of a weird, it left a weird taste in my mouth, but she leaves a weird taste in my mouth. And ⁓ I think that's kind of intentional. Again, she's an anti-hero. She is not a final girl, ⁓ you know, the standard formula of what we've come to expect. It's kind of hard to like her, but it is impressive what she does in order to survive. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ absolutely. I agree. I agree. is a very weird note to end the movie on her saying that just because it seems like they were building a bond, right? You know, they're they're in sync. They they hatched this plan together and they executed it perfectly. And for her to, like you said, to be just so like bitchy like that's that's bitchy. you told you told him earlier what your, you know, desert island band was because remember, she says Madonna is what Madonna and Slayer, I think she says. ⁓ So you told him, but now you're saying, oh, tell somebody who gives a fuck. Well, fuck you, bitch. You know? But yeah, it is it is a weird, odd way to end the movie. But I don't it doesn't ruin the movie by any means. This movie is still. I don't want to say this movie is an enjoyable watch, but this movie, I mean, if you're in for a horror movie or a movie that is going to make you feel something anxiety, you know, it's going to make your blood boil in certain points. This is the film for you. And I absolutely admire the way that this film just strays away from any sort of ⁓ what we would anticipate from a film and plays it very straight, very real. I keep using that word, but I just don't know how else to explain it. This is probably the most real ⁓ of something like this happening that I've ever seen. And I ⁓ appreciate the writing ⁓ to keep the direction. It's all so perfect claustrophobic. I love I didn't mention this, but I love the I love the color palette of this film a lot. ⁓ You know, it's so it's it's dark, dark colors, blue. It's very moody. It kind of reminds me what I was going for with my color palette for Hollow Lake. I kept thinking about that when I was watching it like it's just it's a dark film purposely. And, you know, it's it's in Oregon. So it's Oregon's gloomy to begin with. And I just, love the color palette of this film as well. didn't mention that, but I think it really plays well into the theme of the film. Roger: Yeah, there's definitely like a gritty grungy aspect to it, like which of course you would expect just the setting they're in. They're in a green room. I feel like I'm in that fucking green room. I feel like I'm right there with them. Hold up against a bunch of Nazis. But Troy, you and I would, I don't think you and I would fare as well as these two. They're survivors. We are too though. We would make it through. I think maybe I'm wrong. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Well, once my arm, I don't, I don't know. Once my hand got almost chopped off, I'd be done. You know, I, I'd be, I'd be done. I'd be done. And I feel like, I feel like the second you saw, you know, a pit bull running your way, I don't know. You w we would both probably be the first two to die. ⁓ who knows? ⁓ but I, would personally, I would have never left that green room. So I would have died, but, but, ⁓ Roger: Yeah. Yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Anyway, yeah, so that is 2015's Green Room. It's a little bit different of a type of a film than we usually cover, but ⁓ I hope we did it justice. Listeners, you're going to have to let us know your thoughts on Green Room and our discussion on it, because I know that this film, when it came out, it got a lot of really positive ⁓ reception. And I can see why I really do. Has it held up? You know, it's 10 years later. It's a film about fucking Nazis. Has it held up? it, you know, timely? Is it even more timely today than it was back then? Let's have a discussion listeners. Let us know. Let us know your thoughts on 2015's green room and RIP Anton Yelkin. We lost a good one there. I know. Dumplin he was. He was a sweetheart. Yeah, but I picked this one. I felt like it was a very like you mentioned. I think it was a very off the wall pick for me, but I'm glad I did. And so. Roger: ⁓ a dumpling, a tiny little dumpling. What a cutie. TROY A ESCAMILLA: That means the ball is in your court for next episode and I have literally zero idea about what you are even considering. Roger: I so love just trembling and quivering with anxiety watching films like Green Room. And while the film I'm selecting is not quite as recent, it is still recent. And while we won't be in a green room, we will be in a panic room with one Jodie Foster and Kristen Stewart as we cover 2002's Panic Room, which I thought would be a nice segue into this title. What is your response to that? I can't read it. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ I think I might ⁓ surprise a lot of people here. ⁓ I've never seen panic. Roger: ⁓ my goodness, well. I just, I can't wait. I think we're gonna have a great time. Having those two lesbians hold up in a goddamn panic room against Jared Leto. ⁓ my God, that would be me. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I had. ⁓ my gosh. I am I have. I have the DVD. I have the DVD. Yeah, I have the DVD of panic. I've I've never watched it. It's one of those films like I bought it and I was like everyone, you know, it did really well at the box office. It got pretty positive reviews and it was all those movies. We all don't judge me. Do not judge me, Roger. Do not judge me listeners because we all have those movies where we know we should have watched it by now, right? And just like. Roger: What? TROY A ESCAMILLA: Something always comes up and you just never get around to it. Well, now I'm to get around to watching Green Room. So there you go or not, not sorry. So now I'm going to get around to watching Panic Room. ⁓ So thank you for allowing me now the opportunity to dig out my Panic Room DVD and watch one Jodie Foster. ⁓ I can't wait. Roger: Panic room. We love that lesbian. I mean, we love both of them. And you'll be surprised to see that Kristen Stewart has a very lesbian haircut. And they really look more like a lesbian couple with a severe age difference. They look like mother and daughter. I'll say that. ⁓ yeah, mean, Jodie Foster at her finest. really, I cannot believe you haven't seen this film. I'm not shaming you, but the fact that you own the DVD and you've never watched it Really makes this ripe for Dark Night of the Podcast territory. I mean, this is something to be celebrated. A title that Tori hasn't seen starring Jodie Foster? ⁓ my god, ring out the bells! ⁓ TROY A ESCAMILLA: Can't wait and I think it's gonna be episode. I think that it'll be episode 190 So we're also just 10 weight 10 episodes away from our 200th episode folks Something oh we yeah, we got to start planning. We got to start talking. We got to start talking but yeah guys, so let us know your thoughts on green room and We will anticipate panic room next week. Well, we'll try for next week. We're not gonna promise next week because Roger: This guy should be a big one. TROY A ESCAMILLA: We will be in Toronto. I know I fly out Thursday, so we'll get the episode out as soon as we can, but we will. Hey, if we do not record panic room next week, we will record something from Toronto. Even if it's like a fight. ⁓ my God, I can't wait. It's the first time people are going to see hollow Lake. I, I, I, we'll see. But anyways, with that guys, good night. Roger: We'll record something from Toronto, us beguiling you with our experiences. Good night.