Latest / The Group Chat / Ep. 11 The Creativity Dilemma

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Ep. 11 The Creativity Dilemma · The Group Chat

• Carson: All right, here we are. Hey everybody, this is the group chat and I'm Carson. Paulina: And I'm Paulina. Hi. Carson: And Brandon is not with us today, but he'll be back on the next one. So maybe. We'll keep it a mystery mystery. Chances are he'll be back, yeah. No, so so we we already mentioned AI a bit in our fourth episode, Let's Ask AI. But that was kind of broad. We covered a lot of different ideas and opinions. So I wanted to just Paulina: Maybe. Maybe he will be. Let's hope. Carson: narrow it down a little bit more and talk about creativity and how AI is going to have an effect on human creativity. And of course Paulina, I wanted to talk to you about it because you have already embarked on some creative endeavors, you've been successful, you published a book or two now. Tell us about that. Okay. Right on. Right on. So as a creative, what is your overall Paulina: No, it's only one for now. I'm working on the second one. Carson: impression. We'll just start with your overall opinion of it. ⁓ obviously you're you were a little more pessimistic in ⁓ in that first episode we recorded together the three of us. I was kind of in the middle. I'm gonna play the optimist as much as I can here today and we'll see how it plays out. But anyways, yes, tell me, what's your overall impression? Paulina: Yeah, for sure. Well, I think it's really difficult to sort of just state one opinion and be like, a hundred percent, I think it's always horrible. Although I am a little bit more pessimistic. ⁓ do think it just really ⁓ on what, aspect we're talking about of creativity. ⁓ and how much of AI is actually used in that creative journey and that creative aspect. So I don't want to, you for now, we'll dive into a little bit more, but in general, I think AI can be a useful tool as long as it's used, so to say, correctly, and it doesn't take over... the creative process and journey conflict. Carson: Okay. That does make sense. Yes. I think a lot of people could probably agree that as a tool it's effective, it's it's helpful as long as it doesn't replace like the full process. So that's kind of where I stand in terms of realizing the potential for it to help. Paulina: That makes sense, hopefully. Okay. Yeah. Carson: ⁓ at least get ideas started or not necessarily start ideas but kinda give the ideas a a launch pad to maybe transform into something else or something a little bigger or just kinda give different options in terms of paths to take. But w what do you really mean by Paulina: Mm-hmm. course. Carson: getting in the way of the f creative process. What other kind of things do you see AI having a negative effect on because I mean you you have you have this experience of of your book, you're a writer, so yeah, what do you think? Paulina: Yeah. I think that in the aspect of ⁓ getting in the creative process as AI doesn't really have, personally, and I think hopefully you can agree with me, ⁓ that AI doesn't really have emotions the same way as humans do. ⁓ And in my personal opinion, that is definitely something that could get in, you know, get in the way of that creative process that if you start putting ideas into, let's say, chat GPT or Gemini and say, hey, I wrote this poem, make it better. Okay, grammatically, I think it could help you or maybe choosing vocabulary, but which we also have to take it with a grain of salt because it's always not 100 % correct. But I think this aspect of... It can give you a different version of the poem or, I don't know, a short story or whatever you're writing. But in reality, it's not going to have the same type of emotions that you want to put out there. Mainly because, well, it is a system, right? It is still some sort of computer. ⁓ And I think that can influence, especially writers that are not, they're new to this whole writing community and writing world and artists and creatives. It can definitely influence them and make them think possibly, maybe my writing is not good enough. If AI can change it to this wonderful piece that is so well written, I think it can. have a negative effect on a person's creative journey. I'm talking about the newbies at least, because I think older writers and more experienced writers will understand what works and what doesn't work. Whereas the newbies, it doesn't matter, right? It's always when we're learning something, we always have doubts. Even when we're experienced, we still sometimes have this imposter syndrome. Carson: Mm. Sure. Good point. Paulina: ⁓ So I think it's always important to take any type of advice that AI gets when it comes to creativity or whatever, to take it with a grain of salt. Carson: I could see that. I like what you said about the experienced writers versus the new the newbies just starting out, how they might see it as a threat to their creativity. Because in a lot of cases it can write very well, very eloquently. It uses nearly perfect grammar and depending on the model, depending on the tuning, the settings and all that. So you make a really good point there. I will say that and and y you did mention emotion. Paulina: Yeah. Chris. Hmm Mm-hmm. Carson: And the fact that AI doesn't feel and cannot express feelings the way humans can. And at at this point in time, at least, AI can't read our minds or, you know, search our memories, play them over, and see what kind of emotions could be brought up from from said memories or experiences. I will say that Paulina: Yeah. Yeah. Carson: to to counter ⁓ the lack of emotion, to be on the AI optimist side. That yeah, yeah. And y and you kind of played with this idea too, is that if you feed it the the right information, if you ask it the right questions, if you have this kind of Paulina: Yeah, go ahead, Carson: Cooperate cooperation or like a more collaborative effort between AI and the writer, the creative and the AI, that you can actually maybe uncover or articulate those emotions better if you're stuck. But then again, to be fair, it does depend on the level of the writer. It depends on how clear the memory or experiences experience is. Paulina: Yeah. Carson: And and yeah, also of course how well you use AI. Paulina: Yeah, definitely. And I can actually agree with you on that, that yes, you need to know what to actually put into the chat with AI ⁓ for it to give you an output that you would like. ⁓ And I think we also experiment with that when we write our caption from time to time, when we put our description and... As I said, I do think it's a useful tool, but we have to be very careful with how we use it and what type of things we put into that chat and what we get and how we can also change it so it still feels quite real, like you're putting your emotions into something. ⁓ And recently we even had a conversation, they were like... Recently, I don't have much time to think of descriptions or captions and so on and that's fine and that's normal, right? I mean, we're all busy. It happens and that's what I ask her like, I get it. It happens, whatever. But at the same time, I also know that you also write. You told me that you also write and that you... Yeah, and you would prefer to obviously write something on your own. Carson: Right, right. It happens. Yeah. I dabble. Paulina: then have AI write it for you. Why? Because, well, it holds a different, there's a different value to it, right? Realistically, ⁓ something that is written by a real person that has emotions ⁓ versus something that is a bot, you can't really compare that feeling, right? Those emotions. Carson: Definitely. Can't argue with that. Like I told you in in regards to what we're what you just brought up with the writing descriptions or whatever. I s I said I'm not proud of it, but I've had to use AI to help me with this because sometimes it's hard to remember what all did we discuss. You know, it's an hour of three people talking and and maybe a week has passed or nearly a week has passed and I need you know, how can I replay that? I don't I don't have this ability to press play in my mind and and see it Paulina: Yep. Carson: My mind's eye, exactly what was what we discussed. I mean, I could watch the episode, of course, but that's an hour of my time, right? So no, good point. Good point. And it does feel better knowing that you wrote it from your memory in your words. and that's why anytime I I use AI to help me with any writing task. Paulina: I wish. Yeah. Thank Thank Thank you. Carson: It's just that. It's a tool to either give me direction or set the tone of the writing, the right kind of level of engagement, so be it. And then I of course edit it to make it sound how I would have it sound, using adjectives I would use or or a sharper explanation of a certain topic or thing that we mentioned. But Paulina: Yeah. Carson: I was thinking, since we're kind of on this topic of new writers versus more experienced writers, and we can ex extend this out to other creatives. If if you were starting out in a creative pursuit nowadays, whether you're a musician, writer, graphic designer, tons of different creative career options out there, but Paulina: Yeah. Carson: seeing as AI is developing so rapidly, I mean we're almost seeing changes monthly or even weekly at times, and just how the models we're using are becoming more and more capable. Would you starting out, if you were somebody who's starting out, would you be optimistic? Would you be more threatened by AI, or would you be more optimistic in that you could use it to to improve your skills as an artist? Paulina: Yeah. That's a very good question. I think, let's put it this way. I have my first book out. I wrote my first book in 2020, so what two years ago. AI was already around, right? Maybe not to the same scale that we have right now that pretty much people use it every day, but it was already out. And honestly, when I wrote my first novel, I didn't really think too much about let me use AI to, I don't know, to give me titles, to do this, to whatever. Because I just, I truly enjoyed the creative process. And I think that goes for a lot of writers, that if they enjoy the creative process, they won't really, so to say, maybe worry about AI. ⁓ Of course. ⁓ Of course. ⁓ there will be worries about this aspect of, okay, will it ever replace me? Right? Not take away the creativity, but will my writing or my work be replaceable? there will be worries about this aspect of, okay, will it ever replace me? Right? Not take away the creativity, but will my writing or my work be replaceable? ⁓ And ⁓ it? ⁓ Carson: Hm. Meaning could AI do what you did better? Paulina: Yeah, right. Maybe not currently, like as we said, you know, about this whole idea of emotions that is still, you know, lacks that, but who knows, maybe in 20 years or maybe less than 20 years, it could to a certain extent feel certain things as we do. I don't know. I'm not 100 % sure. I'm not a tech guru, but it's a possibility, right? But where I was going with this is that there's also this aspect of not only replacing, but will my work still be as valuable ⁓ as of some of the greatest writers and musicians that we have ⁓ versus something that is created by AI? Will it get that good that the value of AI work will be equivalent to of a real person. So as a newbie writer to maybe trace back as a newbie writer, don't think I wouldn't, I don't think that I would not enjoy the process. I think that I would just be more scared of this idea that in five years time or 10 years time, will my work still be valuable or will AI take over and the value of what I have done? will just decrease. I don't know. Carson: ⁓ that makes perfect sense. I mean, if you consider just like when you start anything, it doesn't have to be a creative pursuit, but if you start studying to learn new skills or change careers or whatever, there's always like you said, there's that imposter syndrome. There's fear. Essentially it comes down to fear, doubt. good days and bad days, but the bad days you feel like Paulina: Yeah. Carson: This is never gonna work out for me, I'm never gonna be good enough, or somebody can do it better, I don't have as much experience. Why me? Why me? Why me? And then AI, you're saying from what I gathered from what you just were just saying, you still maintain that that kind of it might make me more Paulina: Thank Carson: apprehensive to start or make might make me less confident in in the in a probability of success as ⁓ as an artist. So I think that's real. I think people feel that. I think that's a a real fear that people are expressing all over the internet, all around the world. They're they're a little worried that it might take away that aspect of humanity, a creative edge. Paulina: Yeah. Carson: Now, I will say to counter, because I have a slight counter, that the natural language processing skills of AI being as as great as they are already, the ability to have this conversation with AI gives you ⁓ the impression that you are being emotionally rewarded or praised, and it has an impact on you psychologically. Paulina: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Carson: to not to not maybe not to the same extent as it would ⁓ having conversation with a human, right? But the the more you dive into a problem, the more you seek solutions or creative ⁓ workarounds, whatever, whatever it may be, whatever query you might put into your your AI model. Paulina: Mm-hmm. Carson: The closer it gets to understanding how you think and it talks to you the way you want to be talked to or the way you respond to. Really essentially you train it on the way that you want to be interacted with. And so where that's concerned, I would say that its emotional abilities are I mean, compared to two years ago, way more advanced. I mean it's at first we're all calling bullshit, you know, okay, you know, flattery, flattery, ⁓ this is you're so good. Paulina: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Carson: great at this, but you know, I'm I mean it's getting to the point with me where it's asking me it's really, you know, help helping push me to to ponder more. Or to really look at it from a different angle. Not always. Sometimes it's very, you know, ⁓ that's you're think you're you're doing you're on the right track. You're doing the right thing. And and sometimes, you know, you could feel it kissing your ass a little bit. But I will say, like, to especially for young people, this works tremendously. It's to capture their interest, to capture that emotional ⁓ connection, you know, and then there's another episode on AI relationships, but Paulina: Mm-hmm. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, but how does that make you feel? If I can ask you that, how does that make you feel that AI actually is starting to understand you a little bit more as a person and uses that to actually communicate with you on a level or a way that you would like to you know, talk to? Does that scare you? Is that something that you're sort of like come to terms with or? Carson: Right. I respect that it's it's a natural part of the evolution of AI in that if something is going to continue to be effective enough to be used by people on a on a mass scale Paulina: Mm-hmm. Carson: then it has to be better. And by better it means that means it needs to be better at giving good information, giving in for good information quickly, and then also communicating in a way that a human understands and appreciates and respects, right? Because it has to be professional enough, it has to be casual enough, depending on the tone of the conversation. And so I I appreciate that it it is happening. I'm not surprised. Paulina: Yeah. Carson: Do I like that? To answer your question, do I how do I really feel about that? At times it makes me nervous, yes. At times it it brings me closer to the feeling of I guess apprehension or fear of the loss of human connection because of the fact that maybe one day we won't be able to tell if we are talking to a human or talking to AI. And I think that's already started. I think we're already we've already had a lot of deep fakes, I mean audio, you could be, you know, spammed by phone call, ⁓ fishing, I think it's called. And so it's already happening and people are already being taken advantage of through through tools that are built by AI. Paulina: Yeah. Yeah, course. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Carson: So yes, there's some fear. I'll I'll be honest. I I have a lot of interest and a lot of fear. I'm optimistic that regulation will come regulation in the sense that more care will be taken in the rollout of these technologies. There will be some kind of govern governance to protect people from the negative aspects or the negative side of AI. Paulina: Thanks Carson: So I still am optimistic that it can be controlled. I don't see it spiraling out of control. But no now I'm rambling, so Paulina: Okay. No, no, I really do hope that there will be more regulations on this because when I think about this idea of AI and creativity, right, as a person who's quite creative, and not just creativity, aspect in general, as you said, like even fishing or, ⁓ you know, people getting scammed or whatever. I think there needs to be certain rules and regulations with that. In regards to aspects of creativity, what really irks me... Well, I'll ask you a question instead of saying what irks me. Carson: No, no, no. What irks you? Tell you can ask me a question any time. Yeah, go ahead. Paulina: Do you think this is a question that I wrote down? So let me take a quick look at it because I don't want to fuck it up when I ask it. Do you think is it moral or correct to price AI art, like books, music, and whatever, the same as actual art? Because this is something that I'm starting to see more and more of. Carson: Ha ha. It is a very good question. And in my heart of hearts, no. It's not moral, it's not correct. It's not the right thing to do. Because Paulina: That's why we need to regulate. Regulate. If you watch the different episodes, you'll know what we're talking about. Regulate with regulators. Alright. Go on, Carson: Regulate regulators. That's right. Yes, yes. Well there's the there's intellectual work that is prized. There's emotional expression that's prized through art. And so no, I don't believe that I don't know anybody can do can write a book with AI. Paulina: Okay. Carson: You know, you tra you train a monkey how to use a keyboard. A monkey could get AI to make a book. You teach a monkey five words, it might be enough to make some kind of silly child's book, child, you know, children's book. so no, no, there's absolutely it's not correct. Now will it happen? Sure, because we live in a society where you charge as much as you can, no matter the cost of production. Paulina: You ⁓ Yeah. Carson: Even when it's very, very cheap to make, the prices still are what they are. And we see that when we go out to eat, we see that when we buy just any number of products. ⁓ with all the streaming services and the you know, subscription models. It just doesn't matter how easy it is or how much of something there is, the companies will be chasing that dollar as long as ⁓ that's the ruling bartering chip. Paulina: Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. Carson: So no, it's a great question. Paulina: And that's what's the thing that irks me. That's the thing that irks me that... Carson: Are you seeing that? Are you seeing that their like AI work is being is they're charging a lot for this? Paulina: Yes, I have a TikTok account that is specifically for writing and whatnot. ⁓ And honestly, writers and other creators, but mainly I follow a lot of other writers and screenplay writers and ⁓ musicians. They honestly rip apart people who use AI in their work. And I'm talking about, but use AI in their work as in literally copy and paste, text from chat GPT and you put it into your work. And there are different ways that you can sort of spot that. There are little hints here and there that you can sort of feel like this doesn't really flow the same way as the rest of the book or the other paragraphs. Carson: Yeah. Sometimes it loses its train of thought. You kind of feel it going off on this weird AI tangent. Like, no, that doesn't exist in our reality, but okay. Paulina: Yeah. Yeah, and a lot of people get really frustrated because then those writers, those authors, authors I'll put in quotes, those authors, those musicians, those artists will sell that at the same price if not higher as you know other people who have done all the work. on their own. ⁓ And it just makes it very difficult. Obviously, if you're traditionally publishing, that's a different story. mean, they have their own world. But if you're a self-published author, if you're an indie author and you go through the process and the struggle of actually getting your book out there and noticed and whatever, and then you get another indie author and or a writer that, you know, self-published. doing that with AI, it just gives everybody else like bad rep. So it just takes one to sort of like fuck it up for everybody else. ⁓ And that's what like, it's quite frustrating, right? Carson: Well I think that's good. That's like a self-correcting feature of of creative artists working together. Like they call bullshit when somebody's using AI. It's like that's like a cheat code. Like you played the game, you know, you you ⁓ you made it to the final level, but you use cheat codes. It's not the same. You know. So and it shouldn't be valued as much. I I'll have to agree with you there. I'll break character. Be ⁓ a little anti-AI. Where that's concerned. ⁓ Paulina: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right character for like two minutes. Carson: No, I can never break character I'm always a character. So Paulina: That's Spanish saying, Carson. No? Carson: I mean Yeah, it's it is, but you can in English, I mean that I qu say quite often that like somebody's so and so is a character, like, ⁓ man, what a character. Yeah yeah. I've used it in English ⁓ before moving to Spain as well. Yeah. Like ⁓ that guy's it's a it's like a a n nicer way to say somebody's a little weird, a little out there. You know, like you could say, ⁓ he's a strange cat or that's you know, he's one strange cat or you could say he's a fucking character, man. Paulina: Really? Yeah. It's an oddball. Carson: ⁓ But yeah, I I use it in both languages. Paulina: Yeah. Alrighty, alrighty, Mr. Worldwide over here. ⁓ my gosh. And to piggyback off of a question that you asked way earlier, when you asked me about this aspect of should young writers or creatives be scared to go into this world of Carson: Mr. Worldwide. Paulina: you know, creativity on this fun, you know, creative journey because of AI. Do you personally think that right now art is dead? Or do you think that people can still make a living off of it without using AI? Carson: Without using AI. Paulina: Mm-hmm. Carson: Yes, people can absolutely still make a living off of art. Music especially. Music especially. Writing still. ⁓ Other more technically inclined careers such as graphic arts might you know, graphic design, graphic arts careers, those types of careers might suffer because a lot of those companies will require them to have the skills, at least some basic skills. Because it it comes down to saving time and the editing and the tedious tedious repetitive tasks that are, you know, involved in some of these jobs. But no, you can definitely I think you can still Paulina: Yeah. Carson: without AI be successful. I would argue though that it's I don't think you're gonna find a human being in that's alive right now who would be disciplined enough not to sneak a peek or or just, you know, send a few queries into the AI model of their choosing to get a little bit of advice, a little bit of a suggestion. I don't know that there's the discipline for a human being nowadays if if if humans have discipline nowadays to avoid using AI. And I honestly Paulina: Thank Okay. Carson: I don't think should. I don't think they should. I think you are at a disadvantage if you're not using AI to some extent in almost every career. Aside from creative professions. Paulina: Yeah. How so? Carson: Well, I think it's it's the ultimate assistant. I mean, you're not always able to ask a human in the moment when you have an issue or when you need maybe a different perspective. Maybe your coworkers are busy. Maybe your boss, you can't talk we know how hard it is sometimes to talk to the the top person. That top person is busy, they've got meetings, they don't really have much time for you. And so you you might schedule a meeting, they might cancel it, but by the time you actually get to sit down with that person, well you could have Paulina: Tell me. Yeah. Carson: solved your problem, you could have thought of a different solution, you could have, you know, did some done some troubleshooting. And I think it's really like used as a tool, you're kind of doing yourself a you're at a disadvantage if you're not utilizing AI. But can you get ahead in certain careers without a lot of AI use? Sure. But some careers it might be harder. Paulina: you I'm good. Yeah, I guess I can see your point there. ⁓ Carson: What do you think? I gave you my my spiel. Do you think it's still worth doing? Do you think you can still make it without AI? Paulina: definitely more difficult. I definitely agree that it's to think of a person, even the best of the best of writers or I don't know musicians or whatever for them not to you know just double check something you know like do these two words rhyme, does this make sense, whatever type of thing. ⁓ So I do think that it is a good assistant. right? Not perfect, but good enough, right? Carson: Yeah. But in some cases maybe better than a human. In some cases. Paulina: Yeah, right. And I think, as you said, also saves up a lot of that time, especially when you're working on deadlines. You have a deadline you have to meet. You need to send your song to whoever, right? Or some sort of lyrics or text. OK, let me see if this makes sense. Let's put an email together and send it. So even in those daily tasks of sending emails, ⁓ answering any type of messages, ⁓ follow-ups, whatever, I think that is very useful ⁓ and it definitely saves a lot of time. Carson: I gotcha. Did my camera freeze? Paulina: Yes, you froze. Carson: One moment, people. See. Paulina: We'll just wait for Kyson. I don't know if he can hear me. Carson: ⁓ boy. Yeah. Paulina: just sit here and look pretty. Carson: Can you hear me? Paulina: until Carson comes back. Carson: Really? Can't even hear me? Paulina: Brandon will have a lot of editing to do. Carson keep fucking up! Carson: ⁓ Okay, yes. ⁓ I think that's true. ⁓ Like you said, ⁓ like we've mentioned, it could be a good assistant, but it can't replace ⁓ replace human ⁓ ⁓ yeah, ⁓ Paulina: Yeah. Carson: Maybe in the end it's it's good to use, but not to rely on completely. Paulina: Yeah, no, for sure. And I can't argue with that, right? That's one thing that I can definitely sort of be just like, yes, I agree with you. I think, you know, we're on the same page. ⁓ But like I said, definitely as a person who's creative, I try to avoid it. It's difficult and... As you have mentioned, that it might be quite difficult even for professionals, right, to not have that like little sneak peek, you know, and sort of like, let's see what, you know, AI has to say about this. ⁓ So let alone for people who are not professionals, right, who are still quite new to this creative world, you know, to whether you make music, whether you... do, I don't know, some other type of art. It is tempting, right? It's always tempting to see, how can I change this? How can this be fixed? know, what else can I add? But we also have to be quite strict with ourselves and sort of just be like, okay, yes, I can use it this way, but I'm not going to have AI write my whole book. Carson: Yeah. Paulina: or create the whole, I don't know, song for me. Carson: Sure. Yeah, I think AI is also very good for the people who are less comfortable asking humans for help. Maybe it's a question of not having the person to ask. Maybe it's a problem that you don't know somebody who's good at this, good at that. ⁓ Or maybe it's a confidence thing. Maybe you just don't have that rapport and it's much easier for you to pick up your phone or get on your on your device and ask AI. You know, kind of fe i it gives you the sense that it's behind closed doors. Like you can ask it a ridiculous question that's a human might say, that's such a stupid question, or why do you care? Or why do you really want to know that? But AI, you know, it's not a human, so we don't really care what it thinks of our question. Paulina: Yeah. Carson: So maybe it's maybe it's good for that. Maybe it's good for asking those questions that we otherwise wouldn't ask. Paulina: Yeah, definitely. ⁓ There is a level of discomfort, right? Like, comfort with, ⁓ as you said, with AI that maybe with another person, we wouldn't ask them. because as said, it might be a weird question or I don't know. Let's say you're writing something or you're creating a song or you're doing some sort of art and you're not gonna go up to an art teacher and ask, okay, which colors do I mix to make yellow? Or they're gonna look at you like, at this point you should know, you know? So you're gonna go into AI, right? Yeah, like Google it or look in your book. Carson: They're gonna tell you, why don't you ask AI? Paulina: Yes, like this idea of, you know, like, there are no stupid questions. Well, now with AI... Carson: Well with AI there are no stupid questions. But in real life, there kind of are. People will say there's no stupid questions and you ask one and then they don't say that was a stupid question, but later when they go home they tell their spouse to tell their friends, ⁓ my god, somebody asked such a stupid question today. Don't sit here and lie to me like that. There are no stupid questions. Okay, well I've never told a lie in my life. I've never lied to anybody. That was a lie right there. Like Paulina: Exactly. Exactly. True story every day of my life. Carson: ⁓ bullshitter, bullshitter. Paulina: ⁓ But should we even care about this topic? something that, you know, sometimes ⁓ I sit down and I think about it because am a person who's creative, right? It doesn't matter if it's writing, if it's painting, which my paintings are complete shit and I just do it, you know. ⁓ Carson: ⁓ Paulina: for the fuck of painting and doing something fun. Exactly, right? Or, you know, trying to practice playing the keyboard, which I'm also, you know, horrible at. I don't know. The only thing I have learned, I have learned, ⁓ what is that song by Elvis Presley? Can't Help ⁓ Falling in Love with You or whatever. Very basic, I'm talking just... Carson: But but it makes it feel good. ⁓ I gotta hear this. ⁓ come on. Paulina: That's it. Like, I can do it, but with one hand just playing the very basic notes. Yes. It's horrible. But as a creative person, someone who sort of lives, breathes, and sleeps arch type of thing as much as I can, ⁓ I sit down and I think, Carson: With with a strong hand. I can't be that button. Paulina: I care about this, but why the fuck would others care about this, right? That art is now being done by AI, right? That people start writing their novels with AI or creating their music. Can people tell the difference, right? If they're listening to a song that has AI or the lyrics have been done by AI or not? So, like I said, for me, I think about this every now and then. I'm like, of course we should care about this. Because that sort of, you know, has been around for thousands and thousands of years. This idea of creativity, of storytelling, of music connecting people. I care about it, but others might not. So should we care about it? Carson: I think we should care about it. I think we should I think we do care about it. I think we do deep down care deeply. Deep down care deeply. About our creative expression, our our ability to create, our ability to take something from inside of us, and our soul, in our heart, and our mind, that combination of those those parts of us that make us real and to get it out there and share it with our kind, share it with other humans. Paulina: Thank Carson: So is the threat to creativity real? Should we care about it? I say yes, absolutely. I think we do care about it. Whether or not we should, we do. I was thinking about this question before you asked it, in the sense of it is like a a fundamental it's not like our need to drink w drink water and eat food and sleep. It's not like one of those biological needs. But it but it almost is. It's a psychosocial need. It's not I it's hard to say Paulina: Yeah. It's a need to express yourself. Right? Carson: It is. And it and it's not maybe on the same level or in the same way for every individual, but I I feel like it's in all of us. Like you mentioned storytelling. You know, we storytell in so many different ways. We s we tell stories on podcasts nowadays. I mean it's always been on radio, movies. Paulina: Yeah. We're here. This is what we're doing. Carson: You know, w we have this need, we feel it. We feel have a propensity to share, to create, to explore our feelings and and our ideas and to collaborate with one another. So I feel like that's never going to change. I say AI is not a threat because it's not a real threat. It's not going to stop us from being human. It might drive down the the desire for some young people. And they might have to discover that later in life. And I guess that is where we need to be careful in protecting what it means to be human. And that means having a creative having creative expression, being feeling safe, and able to share and able to create, whether or not it earns us money in the form of a career or whether it just gives us some kind of therapeutic relief or or Paulina: Mm-hmm. Good. For sure. When you were talking, something came to my mind. ⁓ This idea of that younger generations, ⁓ obviously they rely quite heavily on AI. We have talked about that before as well, right? Even when they're doing their research and whatnot. ⁓ It makes me think of how will that affect their... Carson: ⁓ yeah. Paulina: outlook on art and what they will consider to be art because when you ask the older generation, like us fucking boomers over here, we think, I don't know, Mona Lisa, right? We're like, wow, like Mona Lisa is in the Louvre, whatever. Like you think of that as like art, right? You read, I don't know, Shakespeare for many people that's like, wow, art. Right? Like amazing. You listen to, I don't know, Queen, Booking Man Rhapsody, wow, art. Right? For them, that definition of art will be very different. And it makes me think, how will museums look like in the future? Carson: Beautiful examples. Hmm. This AI was inspired by Banksy by Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. It'll be AI Banksy Museum. Paulina: I don't know. Carson: I don't know, it's it's an interesting thought. Paulina: I know it's a very like maybe specific question, but You go to museums and you go there to actually like enjoy something that a person has actually Painted that took the time, you know to sit there mix the paint whatever Do all of you know the little details but then if when you go to a museum that 30 40 50 years from now I'm not gonna be on this earth probably in 50 years, but... I mean like 100 years old, no, I'm joking. No. What is that? Carson: What? I'm sure you will. You're a young Come on, don't count yourself out. Not gonna be a hundred and fifty years. You need to go back to go take math class again. Okay everybody, she doesn't look fifty, but she's actually fifty, so Paulina: you Carson: I hear you, I hear you, no no, I hear you, I totally hear you, but I wanna say that I think you're mistaking your subjective what's subjectively appealing to you about museums and art to perhaps Paulina: Of course. Carson: whatever other percentage of people or other reasons people have for visiting museums and other reasons people have for enjoying the art. For example, I don't go and think about the materials people use. I don't go and think about what this person's life story is, why what brought them to to do this. Now sometimes I will admit that it's it's fun to learn about that, maybe after the fact. Maybe you you see a work of art that really touches you and and you start thinking, wow, like what was going on in that person's mind? Or man, Paulina: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Carson: they they were doing a lot of drugs or something. Or you know, and so it prompts you to to dive a little deeper, to learn a little bit more about their lives, whatever. But in a lot of cases, for me, for example, I go in and I appreciate a painting, for example. If I'm in a museum looking at a painting. I appreciate it for how for what it makes me think or consider or the questions it brings up in my mind or the correlations to present day or past or maybe even the future. And so yeah, I don't know that that aspect of appreciating art will change. Maybe what is appreciated about it could Paulina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Carson: But as long as I think as long as it like it's one thing to create the art, it's another to observe the art. And so maybe maybe those will be ⁓ the the sending and receiving, so to speak, will be affected in different ways as AI is is used more in that in that world, in that space. Paulina: Of course, yeah. Possibly. Yeah, of course. mean everyone has a different reason to go to museums as you said But museum is only one of those one of those things, right? I mean, we also think about music, right? And how will music, I mean, music is constantly changing, but how will music also look like when it's made by AI? we be able to tell that something was created by AI? It's very difficult. There was a song that was very popular. I have to say was very popular on TikTok. ⁓ It was like a trending sound or whatever. And... Carson: Yeah. Paulina: It was made by some sort of popular artist. don't remember their name. ⁓ And later on, it came out that this person actually used AI for a good chunk of their song. I think it was like the chorus was completely done by AI. And people were like, ⁓ my God, I'm banning this song. I'm never listening to it. The typical, you know, the typical feel that people do. But... Carson: Hmm. Virtue signaling. ⁓ Paulina: It's this idea of, we know if things are done by AI when it comes to music? You have to be really in that industry to sort of be able to spot that. Carson: Well, you may not be able to spot it. They might just have to come out with it. Maybe it should be it should be illegal to hide the source just like we have to say where the food comes from. Maybe at some point they'll have to say, Well, this is where the sounds come from. And they can't hide it from us. But moreover, do we really care? If it sounds good, it sounds good, right? Paulina: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, but then at the same time, I mean, I was going to say about the same time people who actually buy their music, but nowadays who the fuck buys music? Nobody buys CD. Well, maybe some people buy CD. If they collect CDs or vinyls or whatever, then that's a different story. But yeah, that has changed. Nowadays we pay for a subscription, but will you pay for a subscription when the music is made by AI? All of it? What's the point? Carson: That's changed. All of it? Absolutely not. Paulina: What's the point of... If you can go to Chad GPT or whatever type of thing and create it on your own. Why won't I be a freaking billionaire and sell my music? Sorry, I'm coming in hot right now. Carson: No, no, no. You're ⁓ you're no, these this is great. This is perfect. This is making me think, and I like to think. I like to explore ideas, I should say. So it's a good idea to explore. I was just thinking now that you you're bringing this up, it makes me think of take your favorite band, for example. Let's just take Queen. You already mentioned Queen and I love Queen. So take Queen. And I'm sure they're doing this. sure they've done it and I'm sure they're gonna do it again with other bands, right? Taking their likeness in terms of their voice, their rhythm, their pitch, their tone, all those aspects of vocals and and instruments and things I don't know about. But ⁓ you take all that, let AI reconstruct and maybe create new songs with that sound. I will give it a listen. Will I appreciate it the same way as I would knowing that Freddie Mercury and his band wrote this, played this, practiced this together. No, I won't appreciate it the same way. Could I really enjoy the songs that AI produces with their likenesses? Sounds so weird. Then yeah, maybe I could see myself like, okay, I love this jam. Like you take ⁓ you make a a different rendition of Paulina: Yeah. Hmm. Carson: ⁓ another one bites the dust and you give me some more songs in that style in that vein, like I'm sure I'll be grooving to it, you know what I mean? Shaking what my mama gave me. but I don't know. Thanks mom, appreciate it. Wanna give a shout out. Paulina: Shaking your booty, yeah. Shout out to Carson's mama. No, I get what you're saying. I definitely get what you're saying. ⁓ Carson: Ha ha. Paulina: But you know, I think I would definitely give it a listen, but I don't know if I would have that same type of connection with it. Carson: No, I don't think you could. If you knew. Paulina: If you knew exactly if you knew that's the thing it's like and how will we know? Yeah. Carson: But there's so many songs. There's so many songs you don't know even about your favorite artists. If your if your favorite artist had like more than five or six or seven albums, and a lot of them do did or do, then the chances of you knowing every song, maybe just one comes up on your Spotify or on your YouTube music Pandora, whatever, and you're like, ⁓ this is this is nice. There was one ⁓ I think by Sublime, but it's the new Sublime without Bradley. Paulina: Okay ⁓ Carson: But it sounded just like him. And I think I could be mistaken, but I I later read that they either used AI to manipulate the voice or something like that. And I and I liked it at first and I think I may have unliked it because of that. So it's an interesting point that you bring up. There was some AI cheat code action going on there. Because I was like, man, I've never heard this song, but this is a jam, and it sounds just like Bradley. It's like, did I just miss this song? Because they didn't have a lot of time as a band. Like they kind of fell apart fast. Paulina: Thank you. Thank Carson: I mean dru sex, drugs, and rock and roll, I mean, it's bound to happen, but fuck. Really wish they had a few more albums in them. It would've been would have been rad. Paulina: Thank you. True. Yeah. Yeah, it's making me also think about movies because I mean, that's another creative thing that we haven't really touched upon, but I'm going to be brief with this. It's making me think about, think about your favorite shows, for example. We know they're going to say the Sopranos, right? So the Sopranos. Right, the Gapagool. All right. Carson: What are you gonna do? ⁓ all right. Ha ha. Paulina: ⁓ And we're thinking about, like, a lot of the actors, well, what's his name? James was James, The main actor, James Gandolfini. I'm so fucking this up right now. Carson: Yeah, his last name is escaping me again, Dolphini. I no no no no, I think you're on it. I think it's I think you got it. Paulina: Yeah, I'm gonna look this up. I'm gonna double check, Carson: We're fact checking ourselves people. See we're the good ones. Paulina: ⁓ it is! Holy shadows! Right, right. It is James Gandolfini. Alright. Mr. James Gandolfini, may he rest in peace. He died in 2013. Imagine. He now comes out the Sopranos 2. For example. Right? Another sort of Godfather type of shit, you know? The Sopranos 2. And... Carson: Yeah. Paulina: They put his voice, but it's not his voice that was already recorded. It's an AI generated voice or AI generated even image of him. Carson: Yeah. Right. ⁓ yeah, both. Paulina: How would you feel if they brought back James Gandolfini back to life? Okay, fair enough. Yes, I get it. Carson: First of all, I'd watch it. When you're so when you're in the grips of an episode, a compelling episode of your one of your favorite shows, you're not thinking, ⁓ this is AI. You're thinking, ⁓ man, this is such a good show. What happens next? Or I wonder what she's gonna say when he s tells her that. Paulina: Okay, fair. Carson: So in the moment, no. I in the moment I don't think I think it's impossible really to to focus on too many things at once. Your your feelings about your ethical feelings of ⁓ AI versus, you know, the a real life and and real time. Paulina: Of course. Carson: But yeah, at the end of the day, it it does it does seem weird. I don't know that it's ethical or moral to do that, especially without explicit written permission from the deceased. If we're talking about somebody who has passed away. I think that's something that we're we're gonna see. Like laws and regulations are gonna change and there's gonna be some weird laws on the books. Like people who lived a hundred years ago, if they were to see the the laws that are gonna be coming out in the next ten years even. Paulina: Yeah. Yeah. Carson: They would be shocked. They wouldn't know what to start. They don't even you know, they don't have the language vocabulary to understand what this would mean. And we're still we're still starting and and we'll be continuing to understand what it means. I mean we're still just trying to figure out we're still unveiling the neg Paulina: For sure. Good. we're still dealing with fucking racism, karson, like... like, we're still dealing with fucking sexism and racism and whatnot, like... it's fucking 2026, like... the laws and regulations... yes. no. Carson: ⁓ I wasn't gonna go there. I was gonna ⁓ talk about social media. On the On the on the tech side though, social media is not regulated. And that's been taking a toll on all people of all ages since its inception. We're how many years into it at this point? ⁓ a good twenty-five, since like everybody had it. and we're just now starting to get that under control. So if this if AI doesn't get regulated or isn't safely regulated Paulina: Yeah. Yeah. Carson: you know, maintained. The consequences could be definitely be far worse than social media. Yes. Paulina: Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Do you have any other questions? I think you're like, you're keeping it, you know, pretty... ⁓ You're answering a lot of questions and you're definitely keeping the side of, you know, that we need to be careful but also at the same time, like... Carson: It's you there's no stopping it, Paulina. There's no stopping it. And we shouldn't stop it. Because I still say net positive. I still say that it's not to the point where we need to turn it off. Hopefully that day never arrives. Paulina: I know. Carson: First of all, that would probably be impossible. There's too much invested already. And investments are just skyrocketing. I mean, we don't even we haven't even gone there. Maybe I'll talk about Br talk about that with Brandon a little bit ⁓ on the money side in the next episode. Stay tuned. But Nah man, let's go for it. Let's do it. Paulina: Yeah. You Carson: Have fun with it. Use it for good, not for evil. Keep it in the right hands. You know, stay creative out there. You know, let it let it enhance your creative pursuit, your creative process. Don't let it replace enhance. Enhance. Paulina: All right. Good. Yeah. Bye. Well said. Well said. Yeah. You have any other questions? Maybe you have any, you know, questions over there for me or... Carson: Awesome. Hot questions. Sizzling questions. No. Paulina: Sizzling. Burning. Fahrenheit burning. No? Carson: No, that's all I've got. So ⁓ thank you for following us to the end for those of you who made it. We are on yeah, you made it, congratulations. You get one million tokens. Another thing about AI. Anyways, thank you for watching. We are on ⁓ social media, we are on Instagram, we've got YouTube, we're on Spotify, Apple, Paulina, am I missing anything here? Paulina: Yoo-hoo! You made it! You're pretty, you got it all. I think there is something, but I don't know. Brandon said something else. Wherever you look at your podcasts, yeah. Carson: We're we're everywhere. We're everywhere. Ki give us a like, give us a follow. Share some snippets. You know? We hope to see you on the next one. Thanks everybody. Paulina: Yeah. Ciao!