Latest / The Curve / The Wild Economics of Bieberchella.

Transcript

The Wild Economics of Bieberchella. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Curve Weekly, where we read the finance news, so you don't have to.
• 0:04
  I'm Vic Harris, a finance professional, and have made a career out of making money
• 0:08
  for other people.
• 0:09
  And I'm Sophie Hallwright, I'm a TV radio content producer, and I was just really second
• 0:13
  tide of not understanding anything about money or the economy, so we started this podcast.
• 0:18
  First of all, we're diving into the business of Coachella, also to say Beaver-Chella.
• 0:23
  He was the highest paid artist ever.
• 0:25
  We're going to talk about the business behind concerts, music, and how to make money
• 0:29
  in the space.
• 0:30
  All birds' gate continues.
• 0:32
  I feel like there might be a few new listeners for this story, so all birds, was a sneaker
• 0:36
  company, has now turned into an AI company, this is not a joke, we're going to talk about
• 0:41
  what's happening.
• 0:42
  Finally, there is more women than ever running businesses in the US, and we want to talk
• 0:46
  about what that means and what it means for the economy.
• 0:48
  But before we dive in, we're doing a 90M tequila shot, because we are celebrating
• 0:54
  a very big event.
• 0:56
  Okay, so we have a celebration here at the curve, Emily's like, I'm not, Emily and I,
• 1:03
  the only ones that know what's going on, Lucy Monroe, you are at your six month probation
• 1:09
  end.
• 1:10
  This is, officially, the announcement to let you know that the job will be continuing.
• 1:17
  I'm not going to lose me job.
• 1:19
  Okay, so I don't know who think Ian will have seen this mean.
• 1:22
  Every time I say, Lucy, like, hey, there's a spelling mistake in this, or hey, can you
• 1:26
  do this?
• 1:27
  She's like, I'm not going to lose me job, I'm going to lose me job, I'm panicking.
• 1:32
  So in the UK, if you have been with a company, there's different lines, you know, you might
• 1:38
  have a probation for three months, six months, so Lucy's been six months, we just had to
• 1:42
  check, you know, you knew what you were doing.
• 1:44
  But that's up on Monday, so we just want to say when you're having fun.
• 1:49
  Really?
• 1:50
  I'm always with her.
• 1:52
  I'm kidding, I do love her.
• 1:55
  So we want to celebrate, so we've got your little gift to say congratulations.
• 1:59
  Oh my gosh.
• 2:00
  It's a ball of tequila.
• 2:01
  Oh my gosh.
• 2:02
  This is actually amazing because I'm banned from wine.
• 2:05
  Really?
• 2:06
  Why?
• 2:07
  I just don't know about it.
• 2:08
  Tequila is the drink of the summer.
• 2:09
  Because I did call Emily yesterday and I thought we need to celebrate Lucy's, you know,
• 2:12
  end of probation period.
• 2:13
  Is she into tequila?
• 2:14
  I'm not sure.
• 2:15
  I don't know.
• 2:16
  Anyway, so we thought we'll do a celebratory shot, all of us.
• 2:20
  I love that.
• 2:21
  This has been yours to take home.
• 2:23
  You've got a casser, a megas bottle.
• 2:25
  But mainly just, we love you and we love working with you and you're so good at your job.
• 2:30
  The one thing we do have to say before we do this celebratory shot is just a quick note
• 2:36
  that you have to promise that you will sort your finances out as a part of your job being
• 2:42
  confirmed.
• 2:43
  I no longer be continuing the way you have, which is how very unplanned.
• 2:50
  Not quite right.
• 2:51
  We probably need to do any episode on me.
• 2:53
  Yes, yes.
• 2:54
  And I will be 30 in a few months, so probably time to sort it out.
• 2:57
  Yes, yes.
• 2:58
  I think it's time.
• 2:59
  Yesterday we were talking about our budgets and Lucy was like, I just kind of figure out like
• 3:03
  how much travel money I need and just put it in.
• 3:06
  I was like, holy shit, have you learned nothing in six months?
• 3:09
  This is not good.
• 3:10
  We should do it.
• 3:12
  We should do it when you started and then now, but obviously not much is there.
• 3:15
  To be fair, I have actually started investing since I started working here and I've seen
• 3:20
  a bit of a return.
• 3:21
  Yes, nice.
• 3:22
  Six months.
• 3:23
  16 pounds, I think it was.
• 3:24
  Do you know the number of people that have met and they're like, oh my god, does Lucy
• 3:28
  work at the curve?
• 3:29
  They're like, she's so great.
• 3:30
  I'm like, I know.
• 3:31
  Oh my gosh.
• 3:32
  No, it's not the same.
• 3:33
  Can we get that one down somewhere?
• 3:34
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:35
  Can we keep that in the podcast for?
• 3:36
  Yeah.
• 3:37
  I love that.
• 3:38
  Okay.
• 3:39
  Here we go, shots on the Friday.
• 3:40
  Cheers, cheers, cheers.
• 3:41
  Cheers, cheers, cheers.
• 3:42
  Okay.
• 3:43
  I'm going to do the whole thing.
• 3:44
  Yeah.
• 3:45
  Otherwise, I might lose my job.
• 3:46
  Yeah.
• 3:47
  It's like a consummation of Jesus.
• 3:49
  Oh, that was strong.
• 3:50
  God, it's been a long time since we've done this killer shot.
• 3:52
  It's sort of an okay.
• 3:53
  But a salt and a.
• 3:54
  But a salt and lemon would have helped.
• 3:56
  Oh.
• 3:57
  Oh.
• 3:58
  Oh.
• 3:59
  Pour it in my tube.
• 4:00
  Wow.
• 4:01
  But in all seriousness, the content that you've seen put out on social media a lot of time and
• 4:06
  energy goes into, I can't speak, there's so much to killer in my throat.
• 4:10
  And yeah, all the videos that you see, all of the content that you see, Lucy puts a
• 4:15
  lot of effort into making sure that it's engaging and informative and funny and we love you.
• 4:21
  So thank you so much for all your work.
• 4:22
  And if you want to make sure that Lucy doesn't lose her job, please send that content as far
• 4:27
  and wide as possible.
• 4:28
  We're looking for virality at this point, aren't we?
• 4:29
  Yeah, we really are.
• 4:30
  So thank you so much.
• 4:32
  And also, I love DMing you all.
• 4:35
  Sometimes you're very lucky and you'll get the girls to pop in and send you voice notes.
• 4:40
  But a lot of the time it's me.
• 4:41
  Actually, I do love sending a voice note to people.
• 4:44
  Yeah, it's really nice.
• 4:45
  I do screenshot every single DM and send it to the girls in case that they don't see them.
• 4:50
  And yeah, I always say to the girls that might one of my favorite parts of my job is engaging
• 4:56
  with the community because what they've built is so incredible.
• 4:59
  And it's so cool to see how many of you love Vic and Sof and they're just as lovely to
• 5:05
  work with as they are to listen to in your ears every Monday and Thursday and soon another
• 5:11
  day.
• 5:12
  Did you know this was happening?
• 5:13
  Did you?
• 5:14
  Did you?
• 5:15
  Like Emily, did you tell her this was happening?
• 5:16
  I was like, really trying to get myself on the podcast.
• 5:18
  She's been kidding.
• 5:19
  No.
• 5:20
  I think it's the shots.
• 5:21
  Yeah, no.
• 5:22
  We're really.
• 5:23
  Thanks guys.
• 5:24
  I'm very excited to have been past my six months and yeah, love working here.
• 5:31
  Thank you.
• 5:32
  I can't believe it's going to be six months.
• 5:34
  Yeah.
• 5:35
  Oh, two.
• 5:36
  It was a shambles before you arrived.
• 5:37
  It was really.
• 5:38
  I mean, I don't think we were really posting on socials much at all.
• 5:41
  Like, there was a real lot and all of a sudden we came out of the gates.
• 5:46
  Yeah.
• 5:47
  Lucy, honoured.
• 5:48
  Guys, that's really, really nice.
• 5:49
  Thanks, okay.
• 5:50
  Well, I'll get back to the content.
• 5:51
  Oh, I'll get back to the content and I'll give the mic back begrudgingly.
• 5:58
  Okay, I need to tell a quick story before we move on.
• 6:00
  This may or may not be cut out if we're told this is absolutely not okay to be publicised.
• 6:05
  And so Lucy has been seeing this guy when I say he's singing loosely.
• 6:09
  You know the classic Friday night.
• 6:11
  How are you going?
• 6:12
  Can I come around up to it?
• 6:13
  Yeah.
• 6:14
  I can hear those.
• 6:15
  Exactly.
• 6:16
  Oh, we've all been there anyway.
• 6:17
  Oh, he wants to see me.
• 6:18
  Oh, he wants to see me.
• 6:19
  Oh, my God.
• 6:20
  Anyway, so she was basically like, um, look, I, and there's been quite a few times where
• 6:26
  she's like, no, guys, I'm just, he's a, he's in the bin.
• 6:29
  It's not happening.
• 6:30
  Don't worry.
• 6:31
  I'm so much stronger than this.
• 6:32
  Anyway, she blocked him.
• 6:33
  But she then keeps on blocking him.
• 6:34
  We're classic five to killers.
• 6:35
  Unblock.
• 6:36
  Then anyway, she was like shaving, um, message in the weekend when she was, you know, had a few drinks
• 6:43
  and was just like, what are you doing?
• 6:44
  And she was like, oh no.
• 6:45
  Actually, this is just too embarrassing.
• 6:46
  I need to stop us.
• 6:47
  So she, I just think this is the most iconic movie ever.
• 6:50
  She makes a show just so blatantly being like, I need you to block me.
• 6:54
  I need you to block me.
• 6:55
  Oh, my God.
• 6:56
  I need to move on from this.
• 6:57
  I, I am unblocking you.
• 6:59
  So like, please just do me a favor and block me.
• 7:02
  So that I can, and he blocked it.
• 7:04
  No, the worst part is that he goes, she sees something like, you know, it's just like moving
• 7:09
  on or something.
• 7:10
  He's like, move on from what?
• 7:11
  I was like, sorry.
• 7:12
  Oh, no.
• 7:13
  The most.
• 7:14
  What an excellent.
• 7:15
  Oh, the knee unblocked her.
• 7:16
  Oh, he's, he's in the same position as you.
• 7:20
  Anyway.
• 7:21
  Oh, I think he's on.
• 7:22
  He's on.
• 7:23
  He's on.
• 7:24
  He's on.
• 7:25
  He's on.
• 7:26
  He's on.
• 7:27
  Yeah.
• 7:28
  Yeah.
• 7:29
  Um, okay.
• 7:30
  Let's move on to the news.
• 7:31
  So, Vic.
• 7:32
  Yes.
• 7:33
  There's been a very expensive, very successful coachella that's just happened.
• 7:40
  I went 12 years ago.
• 7:41
  How old?
• 7:42
  Really?
• 7:43
  12 years ago.
• 7:44
  How old are you?
• 7:45
  Twenty.
• 7:46
  Cool.
• 7:47
  Cool.
• 7:48
  So before it was cool.
• 7:49
  Twenty five.
• 7:50
  I know.
• 7:51
  I know.
• 7:52
  Now it's like a big influence.
• 7:53
  It's, it's horrific.
• 7:54
  I don't think I would go.
• 7:55
  It's the outfits.
• 7:56
  They're like, I'm just like, wow.
• 7:58
  All the like, um, what is it?
• 7:59
  The brand, like, activation.
• 8:01
  Yes.
• 8:02
  It's a lot.
• 8:03
  It's, it's really Haley and Justin's, first of all, I reckon.
• 8:08
  It's so interesting as well.
• 8:09
  Because you would, you see all of, I mean, everyone will have seen their feeds like flooded with content from influencers, from brands.
• 8:16
  Like it was, it was intense.
• 8:18
  And you sort of think why on earth would brands go there?
• 8:21
  But actually, then you look at the stats of how much they've increased or like searches and sales and stuff post coachella.
• 8:26
  And you're like, okay, obviously it's a marketing point that works.
• 8:29
  But I couldn't go outside these just so incredibly anxious that I looked lame.
• 8:35
  And I looked so lame.
• 8:37
  Am I out for it?
• 8:38
  Like, can I look?
• 8:39
  Can I get photos?
• 8:40
  Yeah.
• 8:41
  Stop it.
• 8:42
  I thought I looked so cool.
• 8:43
  That's so fun.
• 8:44
  Yeah.
• 8:45
  I remember outcast was headlining Kelvin Harris.
• 8:47
  That's right.
• 8:48
  He was there.
• 8:49
  And Lord.
• 8:50
  And I remember I climbed up the rungs of the line.
• 8:52
  Yeah.
• 8:53
  And I was hanging from the rungs and then trying to listen to Lord and the security was like, get down.
• 8:56
  And I was like, I'm a Kiwi.
• 8:58
  And just like, and then I kind of got what scared.
• 9:00
  And I was like, okay, now I'm going to get up.
• 9:02
  Yeah.
• 9:03
  Yeah.
• 9:04
  I should have done one festival.
• 9:05
  But now it's so changed.
• 9:06
  I don't think of all festivals.
• 9:07
  I'd love to go to Glac cyber one time.
• 9:10
  Oh yeah.
• 9:11
  But just when Oh yeah, the deliveries are a bit more cool.
• 9:12
  Are you kinda good?
• 9:13
  very nice.
• 9:14
  Low key.
• 9:15
  Yeah.
• 9:16
  Yeah.
• 9:17
  Yeah.
• 9:18
  I actually think also a Coachella now, if I went or any festival.
• 9:20
  I think you look cooler if you haven't tried, you know, in terms of the weather.
• 9:23
  She looks so normal.
• 9:24
  And that little silks dress the pink and orange thing.
• 9:26
  Like she was, she was going over the top, you see all these max.
• 9:31
  Yeah, the reason we're talking about this is because it was the Coachella that brought in.
• 9:37
  Was it the most ever?
• 9:38
  They sold the most tickets because of Justin Bieber, but they also paid them a lot.
• 9:43
  So Coachella brought in $200 million in revenue, like, that's like running a business.
• 9:48
  It was huge.
• 9:49
  Running a business, we're over, I don't know, two weekends.
• 9:52
  Is there only time to generate revenue?
• 9:54
  It's quite wild.
• 9:55
  Yeah, and you're putting a lot of pressure on COVID.
• 9:57
  You'd be like, oh shit, you know, like just having the weather, I don't know.
• 10:00
  I wonder if they've thought about doing more.
• 10:02
  I wonder if they've thought about doing three or four.
• 10:05
  Because it's like, it's not as exclusive that it's just one.
• 10:08
  There's two, so.
• 10:09
  But they sold a hundred and seventy five thousand general machine tickets,
• 10:13
  which was a hundred million, thirty million in VIP tickets,
• 10:16
  five million from the top sponsor Amix.
• 10:18
  Oh, wow.
• 10:19
  Which is crazy.
• 10:20
  $22 million on Food and Beverage, like,
• 10:23
  and even runs like it absolutely,
• 10:25
  a lot.
• 10:26
  Not really.
• 10:27
  It's at the cost of stuff, yeah.
• 10:28
  And then on the flip side, like, the things that they have to pay out
• 10:31
  is obviously the artists.
• 10:33
  I think we should talk about this because the amount they pay these artists
• 10:38
  is so enormous.
• 10:39
  And I mean, like, when I read how much Justin was paid for each
• 10:44
  Justin, as if I'm made to them, because he was the highest paid artist ever
• 10:49
  at Coachella, right?
• 10:50
  I think it was in 20, oh, when was it?
• 10:53
  It was like 2018 or 2019 when Beyoncé was there.
• 10:57
  She was paid eight million.
• 10:59
  And I'm pretty sure that was the biggest artist,
• 11:01
  like an artist, even paid.
• 11:03
  Justin Bieber got 10 million to five million per performance,
• 11:08
  or per weekend, I guess.
• 11:09
  Yes, yeah.
• 11:10
  A lot of money.
• 11:11
  Five million.
• 11:11
  I've totally, for like a night's performance, I'm like,
• 11:13
  I'll do it.
• 11:14
  To be honest, the fact that it's a brand new car,
• 11:16
  although it's like five, I don't have a half price.
• 11:19
  That's the Breener Carpenter was eight million.
• 11:22
  I thought it was really interesting, because I,
• 11:24
  Justin's career, and how long he's been around,
• 11:28
  the fact that there's only two million difference in their fair.
• 11:31
  I actually was like, God, go Sabrina, that's incredible.
• 11:35
  It's such a flywheel, right?
• 11:36
  Because it's like, you've got to pay the artists,
• 11:39
  the good artists, to then sell the tickets,
• 11:41
  to then bring in the revenue, to then pay more, you know?
• 11:44
  It's a risky business model,
• 11:46
  and that you have to lock in Justin,
• 11:49
  and know that it's going to draw enough crowd,
• 11:52
  enough of a crowd, to pay for the high price
• 11:56
  that you're paying him, and like, yeah.
• 11:58
  And $50 million spent on all other artists is like, wild.
• 12:01
  That's so much money.
• 12:02
  It's just, yeah.
• 12:03
  And just imagine managing all those artists.
• 12:05
  There'd be some of them, there'd be such divas as well.
• 12:07
  It's such a risky business,
• 12:08
  that I actually think it's such a good point to bring up,
• 12:09
  because we've seen lots of festivals try to start,
• 12:14
  and in their second or third, you have to give up,
• 12:16
  because it's just the amount of money to run it
• 12:19
  before you've even sold tickets.
• 12:21
  It's like, it's putting a lot of money out
• 12:23
  before you get anything back.
• 12:24
  Totally.
• 12:25
  And like, you have to take out massive loans
• 12:27
  to pay for it, or, you know, get funding.
• 12:29
  But there was a wireless festival in the UK.
• 12:32
  They're Pepsi as a main sponsor,
• 12:34
  and they announced that Kanye West was going to be the headliner,
• 12:36
  and Pepsi dropped out,
• 12:37
  and then Kanye West can't get into the country.
• 12:39
  So you'd just be like,
• 12:40
  oh, yeah.
• 12:41
  Holy shit.
• 12:43
  I mean, that's like, come on.
• 12:44
  You should have realised there's a bit of a risk,
• 12:46
  but if he had gotten, and then since I didn't dropped out,
• 12:49
  like, seeing Kanye West, you know,
• 12:51
  looking at an artist like that is quite incredible.
• 12:53
  I mean, for all his sins, like, I don't agree with him
• 12:56
  as a person in what he's seen, but like, it's, yeah.
• 12:59
  You know how stressful it is to hang a birthday party.
• 13:02
  No one's going to come.
• 13:03
  I'm buying guacamole.
• 13:04
  It's not going to be eaten.
• 13:05
  You don't like the spiral you have.
• 13:07
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:08
  Imagine putting in millions and millions and millions.
• 13:12
  I mean, obviously Coachella, Glacenbury,
• 13:15
  they've got an amazing reputation,
• 13:17
  but starting a festival, so risky.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:19
  But I was looking actually back waiting
• 13:22
  at the start, it was in 1999.
• 13:25
  So like a million years ago.
• 13:27
  And there was only 25.
• 13:28
  Twenty-seven years ago.
• 13:29
  How long was that?
• 13:30
  Twenty-seven.
• 13:30
  Yeah, yeah, nearly 30.
• 13:31
  Like, that's quite a lot.
• 13:32
  A million?
• 13:33
  Sorry, I just mean it was like, it's like ages ago.
• 13:35
  Twenty-seven, yeah.
• 13:37
  And there was only 25,000 people that went
• 13:40
  and tickets were under $50.
• 13:42
  Yeah.
• 13:43
  Like, for eight weeks, yeah.
• 13:45
  So like a hundred bucks.
• 13:45
  It's quite...
• 13:47
  It's also like a thousand percent increase
• 13:49
  over the twenty-five years.
• 13:50
  And you have to take it right, which is a lot.
• 13:51
  But that's a thing, like, you've got to start out...
• 13:53
  What was that five festival?
• 13:54
  And he started out so big.
• 13:55
  And it's like, no, you start small,
• 13:56
  you get credibility.
• 13:57
  Then more artists want to come.
• 13:58
  You know, like, it's like...
• 14:00
  And then this is why Glacenbury is like,
• 14:02
  exactly, it's like one of the longest-running festivals.
• 14:04
  And it's like, because people now know what to expect.
• 14:07
  And yeah, I don't know.
• 14:08
  And so do the artists want to come?
• 14:09
  The boost I guess in Justin's...
• 14:11
  Like, it's now number one on, you know,
• 14:13
  around the world about all his songs.
• 14:15
  You know, the boost he would have got...
• 14:17
  Yes, it's $10 million.
• 14:18
  But like, the flower and effects.
• 14:19
  And they've even knew that he would get from that.
• 14:21
  Like, I could...
• 14:22
  If I had $10 million,
• 14:24
  I don't think I'd get Justin to come play at my house for $10 million.
• 14:27
  You know?
• 14:28
  You know what I mean?
• 14:29
  It's like the whole hype and like,
• 14:30
  God, I mean, people listen and then he gets royalties.
• 14:32
  Then he gets asked to headline other big festivals.
• 14:36
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 14:37
  It's not just the dollar amount that he gets
• 14:39
  in the moment.
• 14:40
  It's the flow on.
• 14:40
  It's kind of like tennis players there.
• 14:42
  What they earn and their, you know,
• 14:44
  prize money is a tiny percentage of the rest of their...
• 14:47
  For Coachella, made $17 million in profit.
• 14:50
  The Coachella festival.
• 14:51
  Holy shit, that's a pretty good time, either.
• 14:54
  I mean, I'd want to run a business that generates $70 million.
• 14:56
  Just there's risks, but like, that's wild.
• 14:59
  $17 million.
• 15:00
  Also, how cool.
• 15:00
  What's your job over on Coachella?
• 15:02
  Yeah, amazing.
• 15:04
  But I actually...
• 15:05
  So I was looking into this because I've seen so much content online
• 15:08
  about Justin's performance and people saying it was lazy
• 15:12
  and, you know, there's so many different opinions online.
• 15:15
  Like, I think I saw it was Zara Larson saying,
• 15:18
  you know, if I got on stage in a hoodie and made that little effort,
• 15:21
  I would be completely scrutinized.
• 15:23
  Like...
• 15:23
  But that's his email.
• 15:24
  Yeah, no, 100%.
• 15:25
  Like, but anyway, point was, I was looking into this
• 15:28
  because so many people are selling to talk about the financial angle
• 15:30
  with him and what's happened.
• 15:32
  And I had no idea what's happened in the past five years.
• 15:35
  So...
• 15:36
  So basically, apparently, he was nearly bankrupt a few years ago.
• 15:42
  So in 2022, when he cancelled the Justice World Tour,
• 15:46
  he remembered he was diagnosed with Ramsey Huntsendrome,
• 15:50
  which is like a neurological condition.
• 15:51
  He had like a face that was drooping.
• 15:53
  It was all right.
• 15:53
  You know what, he had to cancel his tour
• 15:56
  and he had already got a 40 million advance for the tour.
• 16:00
  And then he owed it back and he couldn't pay it.
• 16:02
  So he, you know, had a bit of a, apparently, debts barrel.
• 16:06
  And, you know, in his whole career,
• 16:09
  he's earned like 500 million or like up to like a billion dollars.
• 16:12
  Like a huge amount of money, obviously spent it,
• 16:15
  which just made me think,
• 16:17
  doesn't matter how much money you earn.
• 16:18
  If you don't know how to manage it or invest or have a backstop,
• 16:21
  like that's just a risk fee for disaster.
• 16:23
  If we decided a contract to deliver a podcast,
• 16:26
  like, or, you know, some podcast episodes,
• 16:28
  and we got paid, you know, 20, 40% up front,
• 16:31
  and then we didn't deliver.
• 16:32
  And we have to pay it back.
• 16:33
  Like, if we'd been going to spend that money,
• 16:34
  it'd be like, what, what did he spend that on?
• 16:36
  And how like, obviously, not much...
• 16:38
  Yeah, it's money management.
• 16:40
  It's terrible.
• 16:41
  It's like, you put that advance into a time to pause it.
• 16:44
  Yeah, yeah.
• 16:46
  But anyway, so he then, so not only did he owe the advance,
• 16:49
  but then he also, there was like a collapse of like a, you know,
• 16:52
  20, 24 million penalty of not going ahead with it.
• 16:56
  And his manager at the time,
• 16:58
  like the management covered it,
• 17:00
  and he was trying to repay,
• 17:02
  city was out of cash.
• 17:03
  And then basically to survive this whole saga,
• 17:06
  he sold the rights to his whole music catalog.
• 17:08
  So he was like, 300 songs.
• 17:10
  That's why it only could pay short snippets at Coachella,
• 17:14
  because he wasn't allowed to play the whole.
• 17:16
  Crazy.
• 17:17
  And so basically, anyway, so he was like,
• 17:20
  28 at the time.
• 17:21
  He was the youngest artist to ever make that move,
• 17:24
  like sell his whole catalog,
• 17:25
  which is obviously like quite devastating
• 17:28
  from a long-term revenue standpoint,
• 17:30
  but obviously, he kind of had to.
• 17:31
  I think his manager was being like,
• 17:34
  please don't do it, please don't do it.
• 17:35
  Like, there was meant to be some kind of tax break coming,
• 17:37
  but he just like couldn't wait to sold them.
• 17:40
  And then, yeah, like there was all these reports about,
• 17:42
  like him and Haley flying, like commercial.
• 17:45
  I kind of can't imagine that.
• 17:46
  I'm like, is that bullshit?
• 17:47
  I can't imagine them on a commercial flight.
• 17:50
  Like, but also, like she's got money in her life.
• 17:51
  I was going to say that family is so wealthy.
• 17:53
  Anyway, so she was kind of funding their lifestyle.
• 17:55
  He dropped swag.
• 17:57
  That surprise album that kind of came out of nowhere.
• 17:59
  Yeah.
• 17:59
  But he didn't have like an agent or a manager.
• 18:01
  So in terms of the way he negotiated for Coachella,
• 18:04
  he then didn't have to pay like commissionary thing.
• 18:07
  He basically did it directly with the festival,
• 18:10
  which I thought is actually kind of amazing.
• 18:12
  He's obviously was like,
• 18:13
  shit, I've had a total blow out.
• 18:14
  I need to kind of like make a comment.
• 18:15
  He's, yeah, he's, he's definitely being through
• 18:18
  a very rocky financial time.
• 18:20
  But I wonder if it made him, yeah, like,
• 18:23
  I don't know, I wonder if he's like thinking about his money differently
• 18:27
  or he's trying to be a bit more of a podcast.
• 18:29
  Just send her a question.
• 18:30
  What are you investing in?
• 18:32
  Have you got an emergency fund?
• 18:34
  You've got an emergency fund.
• 18:35
  What did you do with your 10 million?
• 18:38
  Oh, my God, I'm majoring.
• 18:40
  But I just think when I was thinking about this,
• 18:42
  I was like, you know, there's so much criticism online
• 18:44
  about like the way he performed and what he performed.
• 18:46
  But there's so much intricacy and nuance
• 18:49
  behind the decisions that he made around like what he played,
• 18:51
  what he could play.
• 18:53
  Oh, totally.
• 18:53
  Yeah, people don't know that.
• 18:54
  Neither know the full story.
• 18:55
  Yeah.
• 18:56
  There's always people being like,
• 18:57
  why don't you play your blamplam?
• 18:58
  It's like, because he literally can't.
• 19:00
  He's like under contract.
• 19:01
  He's sold the rights to like,
• 19:02
  well, the motor, Taylor Swift re-recorded
• 19:04
  and now she owns all her own and like all of that.
• 19:07
  The music industry is so fascinating.
• 19:08
  But one of the things that you wanted to speak
• 19:10
  about that was live nation.
• 19:11
  Because we've spoken a little bit about live nation ticket master.
• 19:15
  It was ages ago.
• 19:16
  It's not bell.
• 19:17
  No, there's been an announcement this week
• 19:18
  around live nation owning ticket master.
• 19:21
  Did they already own it?
• 19:22
  They already own it.
• 19:23
  Yep, so live nation owns ticket master,
• 19:24
  which is the world's largest ticketing platform.
• 19:26
  If we wind back a wee while in 2014,
• 19:30
  and we did speak in 2014,
• 19:32
  like we did not hold that in 2014.
• 19:35
  In 2024, we spoke about this.
• 19:38
  Is that the department of justice in the US
• 19:41
  was it sued live nation
• 19:43
  because it was suffocating competition.
• 19:45
  Like when you live nation owns all these venues
• 19:48
  and it's a big kind of media company,
• 19:50
  then it owns ticket master,
• 19:51
  which is the ticket agent for all these events.
• 19:55
  Anyway, it was, do you remember the
• 19:58
  the Taylor Swift saga?
• 19:59
  I was going to say, I do remember.
• 20:00
  I kind of, I think, I can't remember.
• 20:02
  And she went ticket master.
• 20:04
  It was the only platform that was big enough.
• 20:05
  Yeah, she was like, can you handle these volumes?
• 20:07
  Like it's going to be reduced your essence.
• 20:09
  She was like, yeah, they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:10
  Site broke.
• 20:11
  Anyway, then there was this resale thing that went on.
• 20:13
  And there was just like, there's exorbitant prices
• 20:16
  for resales because people had gone on
• 20:18
  and there was all this scalping and stuff.
• 20:20
  And she was like, you know,
• 20:22
  you can't increase prices.
• 20:24
  It was something around pricing and like
• 20:25
  charging people way too much in the ticket price.
• 20:27
  And then that she wanted her fans to actually get access
• 20:29
  to the tickets, but people couldn't get access to it
• 20:32
  because the platform broke down.
• 20:33
  So all these people were reselling for, you know,
• 20:36
  10 times the value of it.
• 20:38
  And she was like, I don't want my fans paying
• 20:40
  like people profiting off my fans
• 20:42
  who just want to come to the show.
• 20:43
  But anyway, so there's been an announcement this week
• 20:45
  that a US jury has just ruled that live nation
• 20:48
  has illegally monopolized the live events industry
• 20:52
  and overcharged fans.
• 20:53
  So that means that they have essentially been anti-competitive
• 20:58
  and been the big dog.
• 21:00
  And monopoly means when you have, you're the only one
• 21:02
  in the industry.
• 21:03
  And so therefore you can charge whatever you want.
• 21:05
  Do you have an Oligopoly?
• 21:05
  There's two and Oligopoly.
• 21:06
  There's like three, four, still quite small.
• 21:10
  Like oil companies.
• 21:11
  So like when you've got Shell BP, that's an Oligopoly.
• 21:13
  So there's, when you were monopoly,
• 21:16
  yeah, you could double the price.
• 21:17
  And people still have to buy from you
• 21:18
  because there's no one else to go through.
• 21:20
  So back when 2024, they wanted to break up the company,
• 21:23
  the Department of Justice in the US.
• 21:24
  They were like, that's right.
• 21:25
  They were like, wait, this is, you've been anti-competitive.
• 21:28
  We need to break up the company.
• 21:29
  Something like 70% of live shows in the US.
• 21:32
  They sell tickets for something.
• 21:33
  Like it's a huge request.
• 21:35
  And then in March this year, they quietly settled.
• 21:40
  I was going to say, you haven't heard anything about it.
• 21:43
  And then there was about 33 states that banded together.
• 21:45
  And we're like, nah, this is not okay.
• 21:47
  So then they kind of took it back to court.
• 21:49
  And they've fired.
• 21:50
  They keep, keep fighting.
• 21:51
  And then they won this week.
• 21:53
  So essentially either live nation has to pay a massive fine.
• 21:57
  It's like 700 million.
• 21:58
  But the cases isn't closed yet.
• 22:01
  They're still fighting for a breakup of the two businesses.
• 22:05
  So live nation.
• 22:06
  And what does that mean?
• 22:07
  They would just operate separately.
• 22:08
  Just operate separately.
• 22:09
  It means there'd be more competition.
• 22:10
  It means less lower ticket prices for us as consumers
• 22:13
  because there's more competition.
• 22:14
  But obviously live nation's shares dropped.
• 22:16
  And then the ticket resellers, there's a few ticket resellers
• 22:20
  that are public companies.
• 22:21
  The issue prices jumped.
• 22:22
  Because obviously people are like, oh,
• 22:24
  there's more competition coming.
• 22:25
  That's great.
• 22:26
  Yeah, it's like there was quite fascinating reading.
• 22:29
  Reading the articles on this and it was,
• 22:31
  they found emails within live nation
• 22:34
  that were like bragging about the high fees they charged customers.
• 22:38
  And like we're robbing them blind.
• 22:39
  Was like, yeah, so I think it's like this mentality of
• 22:42
  shit that's so bad.
• 22:44
  You've got to be so careful what you've
• 22:46
  seen on internal emails.
• 22:47
  Honestly, I've thought this before.
• 22:49
  I've went to like Ford something.
• 22:50
  I've sent me a rude email.
• 22:51
  And I'm like, what a cow.
• 22:52
  And then I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah.
• 22:54
  There's just like, honestly,
• 22:55
  imagine if that got recent to someone.
• 22:57
  I know.
• 22:57
  I do think the whole space
• 22:59
  with such a disaggregation of the music industry right now
• 23:02
  artists are finding that, you know,
• 23:04
  for most artists, the best way to make money
• 23:05
  is to tour all like to do festivals or live shows.
• 23:09
  And we're all craving that kind of human connections.
• 23:13
  Particularly post-COVID.
• 23:14
  You know, like I want to go to a festival.
• 23:15
  I want to go concert a sports game like all of that kind of stuff.
• 23:18
  And yeah, I think this is exactly kind of leaning into this.
• 23:22
  Like festivals are probably just going to get
• 23:24
  bigger and better and more artists wanting to perform at them.
• 23:28
  And I think there's also this support from fans.
• 23:32
  Because ideally you want to feel that by going to their concert
• 23:35
  you're directly supporting them and the money's going to them.
• 23:38
  Because everyone knows that Spotify and Apple
• 23:40
  takes such huge percentages of royalties or players
• 23:43
  or however it works.
• 23:44
  And so I think that yeah,
• 23:46
  everyone wants to go to these events.
• 23:47
  But no one wants to be paying 10 times their ticket price.
• 23:51
  The fans don't want to.
• 23:52
  The artists don't want fans too.
• 23:53
  So I feel like this is actually really positive news.
• 23:56
  I feel like the fans, like Livia Deandre,
• 23:58
  did the same thing.
• 23:59
  There was something around the price of her ticket sales.
• 24:03
  And she came out and said like, I refuse to,
• 24:06
  you know, I don't want my fans to be paying that much or something.
• 24:09
  Same with Taylor Swift.
• 24:09
  I think there's a bit of a research,
• 24:11
  a bit of like control coming back to artists.
• 24:13
  So like, no, no, this is my music.
• 24:14
  This is my concert.
• 24:16
  But back in the day, it was so hard to get in front of an audience.
• 24:19
  So you had to rely on.
• 24:20
  Very good labels.
• 24:21
  Very good labels.
• 24:22
  And like, you know, agencies taking big cuts,
• 24:24
  whereas now with social media
• 24:27
  and people having their own individual followings,
• 24:29
  it's very easy to go more direct to your audience.
• 24:32
  So you've got the whole control.
• 24:33
  I think he's sad for Justin Bieber.
• 24:35
  He's just given away all of that.
• 24:37
  He was sad for him.
• 24:38
  Is that weird?
• 24:39
  I know he's fine.
• 24:40
  Yeah, I'm like, he's fine.
• 24:42
  He's fine.
• 24:43
  Haley Bieber's engagement ring.
• 24:45
  I just think it is.
• 24:47
  I think she'd be enormous.
• 24:48
  I think it would be really good friends.
• 24:50
  Do you think?
• 24:50
  Yeah, I think she's just so lovely.
• 24:52
  You know what?
• 24:52
  I do think videos of her talking to fans
• 24:54
  and doing her events for road.
• 24:56
  And she does look lovely.
• 24:58
  She looks really sweet.
• 24:59
  Yeah.
• 25:00
  I just feel like you'd be a great girlfriend to have, you know?
• 25:07
  I'm so excited to talk about this next news item.
• 25:10
  All-Birdgate.
• 25:11
  All-Birdsgate.
• 25:12
  All-Birdgate.
• 25:13
  It's sest with this story.
• 25:14
  It is so funny.
• 25:16
  And I'm kind of excited to unpack it.
• 25:18
  The whole thing I was like,
• 25:19
  is this normal?
• 25:20
  Does this happen often?
• 25:21
  What's going on?
• 25:21
  Yes, if you've been sleeping under a rock
• 25:24
  or not following the curve,
• 25:26
  socials that Lucy has so
• 25:28
  fantastically put together.
• 25:30
  All-Birds.
• 25:31
  So last week, we spoke about the demise of all birds.
• 25:34
  It went from a $4 billion company
• 25:35
  to a $40 million company.
• 25:38
  Then it got bought out for $40 million,
• 25:41
  the brand and the footwear, the assets.
• 25:43
  And then this week, it is announced
• 25:46
  that it is going to be an AI infrastructure company.
• 25:50
  And renamed to new birds.
• 25:52
  Kind of love the name, not gonna lie.
• 25:55
  But before we move on, can we chat again?
• 25:59
  So like, all birds sold, 40 million,
• 26:01
  some people might hear that if this is the first time
• 26:03
  they're hearing this story.
• 26:04
  And think, that's amazing.
• 26:05
  Wow, how much money?
• 26:06
  Actually, it was really bad.
• 26:08
  Like it was the worst kind of,
• 26:10
  their share price had gone terribly.
• 26:12
  It was just like 99% of your value,
• 26:17
  of your investment, if you put it in it.
• 26:18
  So the takeover or the purchase or whatever it's called,
• 26:22
  can we just talk about who bought it?
• 26:25
  Was this obviously their intention the whole time?
• 26:28
  Does this happen with a lot of companies?
• 26:30
  Like, watch also just the irony
• 26:32
  of an eco-friendly woolen sneaker
• 26:36
  turning into an AI company.
• 26:38
  Like, I'm sorry.
• 26:39
  So the assets in the brand have gone.
• 26:41
  Right. So it's effectively a shell company.
• 26:42
  Okay. A publicly listed shell company now.
• 26:44
  That's what was sold for 40 million.
• 26:46
  Two, American Exchange Group.
• 26:47
  They can now make the shoes,
• 26:50
  own the all birds brand, all of that.
• 26:51
  Now you've got this public company,
• 26:53
  nothing in it.
• 26:54
  And what is it?
• 26:55
  How much do I pay 40 million for that?
• 26:57
  For the shell company that's got no...
• 26:59
  No, no, no, no.
• 27:00
  40 million for the shoes, so the assets,
• 27:03
  all the shoes, all the stock,
• 27:04
  and the all birds brand.
• 27:06
  Then that goes with to American Exchange Group.
• 27:09
  They run that.
• 27:10
  They run the all birds brand.
• 27:11
  Now you've got left this shell company
• 27:12
  with nothing in it effectively.
• 27:14
  And that is what has been turned into new bird AI.
• 27:18
  It's now becoming an AI company.
• 27:20
  So there's not a team there that's like,
• 27:22
  oh, you're working on the shoes and you're working on AI.
• 27:24
  Like, it's a whole new business essentially.
• 27:26
  Okay. But the shares are in new birds.
• 27:30
  It's like saying if we had...
• 27:31
  If the curve is a public company
• 27:33
  and we decided to sell the podcast,
• 27:36
  sell...
• 27:37
  We don't really have assets as such,
• 27:38
  so it's like a bit different.
• 27:39
  But like, say we sold of the furniture,
• 27:41
  we sold everything.
• 27:42
  And we sold the curve brand.
• 27:45
  And we're sitting here with pretty much nothing.
• 27:47
  And then someone gives us a 50 million convertible loan,
• 27:51
  which I'll get to in a second,
• 27:53
  and goes cool.
• 27:54
  Go and spend that and become a AI company.
• 27:58
  You're going to completely pivot.
• 27:59
  And so it's okay, before we get into convertible loan
• 28:02
  and all of that,
• 28:03
  the person that's giving the loan,
• 28:05
  why are they wanting,
• 28:07
  why are they in charge of saying,
• 28:09
  here's the money, go do this thing.
• 28:11
  So the share price had gone from...
• 28:13
  Yeah, so the value of the company had gone from $4 billion to $40 million.
• 28:16
  And the share price had gone,
• 28:17
  was downed about, let's say $3,
• 28:19
  then an investor comes along and goes,
• 28:21
  look, I'll give you a convertible note with $50 million.
• 28:24
  And with the convertible note,
• 28:27
  you lock in a price that's going to convert into shares.
• 28:31
  So it's like, here's a loan,
• 28:33
  but you have to effectively,
• 28:36
  there's a trigger point, whatever that is.
• 28:38
  And for them, it's like a trigger point on a share price
• 28:40
  that converts that into stock.
• 28:42
  So they've got nothing in there.
• 28:43
  So even to start a new business,
• 28:45
  you need money, you need capital.
• 28:47
  And so they've given them this loan
• 28:49
  to start that, to become an AI company.
• 28:52
  So is the idea that the convertible loan,
• 28:56
  it's so risky for the person lending the money
• 28:58
  because it could be worth nothing
• 28:59
  that they're able to demand quite intense.
• 29:02
  Like, I expect to get this amount back.
• 29:05
  The shares, if they were at this point, blah, blah, blah.
• 29:08
  Yes, essentially, but it's kind of what we're like,
• 29:11
  praying on the desperate.
• 29:12
  Like, we kind of spoke about.
• 29:13
  It's like saying,
• 29:15
  you don't have to give me equity right now,
• 29:17
  because also, like, I don't want equity at $2.99.
• 29:20
  Do you know what I mean?
• 29:21
  It's like, here's a loan,
• 29:22
  so it's dead, not equity.
• 29:23
  But it converts into equity at a certain point.
• 29:26
  It might be like, um, when the share price reaches X or, you know,
• 29:30
  it's got a, yeah.
• 29:30
  And so, sorry, the share price was $2.29.
• 29:34
  The convertible note converted $2.99.
• 29:36
  And now it's at $18.
• 29:38
  So they are, like, sitting back going,
• 29:42
  shit here,
• 29:44
  we did not think this reaction would be.
• 29:46
  So they've now got $17 million dollars,
• 29:49
  million shares.
• 29:51
  And their shares are worth about,
• 29:53
  I think it's about $270 million dollars.
• 29:56
  Oh my God, I've just looked at how much that is.
• 29:58
  That's almost, if you sold immediately,
• 30:01
  which I don't know if they did,
• 30:02
  that's making $274 million on paper one day.
• 30:05
  But they can't sell.
• 30:06
  Like, they'll own so much,
• 30:08
  like, trying to now sell 16 million shares.
• 30:11
  You know, like,
• 30:11
  it would just the price would just go straight back down.
• 30:13
  But what I'm saying is that they took a risk, yes.
• 30:15
  And they, but they will probably like,
• 30:16
  look, if we announce that we're going to do anything
• 30:19
  and have AI on the end of it,
• 30:21
  people are going to want to, you know,
• 30:23
  get involved and the share price is going to jump.
• 30:24
  And so even if the share price jumped half of that,
• 30:26
  it was like 800%.
• 30:27
  Like, that's absolutely crazy.
• 30:29
  And this screams to me that people are so silly.
• 30:34
  Like, I'm just,
• 30:35
  Oh my God, it makes honestly investors look
• 30:36
  like the dumbest people in the world.
• 30:38
  Like, what are you, like, what?
• 30:40
  It's gone up 800%.
• 30:42
  People are like, great idea.
• 30:43
  I'll buy that.
• 30:44
  Like, what?
• 30:45
  I mean, they obviously see potential
• 30:47
  in this new, new bird AI company.
• 30:50
  And what it's going to do.
• 30:51
  And there's, I mean, there's so much hype
• 30:52
  in the space in AI that we had to do
• 30:55
  was put AI on the end of anything.
• 30:56
  And we're like,
• 30:57
  Woohoo!
• 30:57
  This is kind of what I want us to talk about
• 30:59
  because we've spoken for ages about the idea of
• 31:01
  are we in an AI bubble?
• 31:03
  Is it going to pop?
• 31:04
  Blah, blah, blah.
• 31:05
  And I did a bit of research on other businesses
• 31:08
  that have almost like done a massive pivot
• 31:12
  at a time when something's like hot and cool,
• 31:14
  whether it's blockchain,
• 31:15
  whether it was like when the dot com
• 31:17
  was happening, time and time again.
• 31:19
  So it's basically it's a tactic
• 31:21
  where a business is battling.
• 31:23
  Yeah.
• 31:24
  And then they pivot and they announce
• 31:26
  they're going to be in a space
• 31:27
  that's just like hot commodity
• 31:29
  and then the share price shoots up.
• 31:31
  It's not more like when it's not more,
• 31:33
  like it's not that specific.
• 31:35
  It's more if we were using AI massively at the curve
• 31:39
  and we were like, you know what,
• 31:40
  I think it would be better if we just called it the curve AI.
• 31:43
  And you know, it's like it's a marketing tactic.
• 31:45
  Like being a public company is all about marketing.
• 31:48
  You're trying to sell your shares
• 31:50
  every day to new people.
• 31:52
  So it's like, how do you become attractive?
• 31:54
  What is attractive right now is AI?
• 31:56
  It's not sneakers.
• 31:58
  So on the sea, sneakers to AI as well.
• 32:01
  Also, my is the most competitive space.
• 32:04
  It's capital intensive.
• 32:05
  You've got people with expertise
• 32:06
  about creating sneakers that are now running an AI company.
• 32:10
  I mean, like it's quite, it's quite laugh-raising.
• 32:13
  Yeah.
• 32:14
  But if you still owned, if you had bought shares in all birds
• 32:17
  or you still own shares in all birds,
• 32:19
  you'd probably be pretty happy.
• 32:21
  Actually, yes, because we did actually have a question
• 32:22
  come through from the community and they said,
• 32:24
  I'm not sure what to do with my all birds shares.
• 32:27
  Should we sell any shares that we haven't all birds
• 32:29
  or just leave them?
• 32:30
  Even though the share price is up 800% at $18,
• 32:34
  it's not anywhere near IPO.
• 32:37
  So it depends where you bought them, right?
• 32:38
  Like a few, yeah.
• 32:40
  Like they, I think it's IPO at like 500 or something.
• 32:42
  So 18.
• 32:44
  So it's fallen massively and then now it's up
• 32:46
  like a tiny little bit off the bottom.
• 32:48
  So what you're saying is if you bought
• 32:50
  when it wasn't at its peak, peak, peak,
• 32:51
  this actually may have been a good return for you,
• 32:54
  but if you bought when it was,
• 32:55
  which most people did, yeah.
• 32:58
  Also, with any business that you own shares in,
• 33:03
  the proposition has changed massively now, right?
• 33:05
  Like do you want to own an AI company?
• 33:07
  Do you trust management, you know?
• 33:10
  It's just given them a glowing report of what's going to be
• 33:12
  happening with this business.
• 33:13
  And look, maybe you're like, you know what,
• 33:16
  this is a tiny part of my portfolio
• 33:17
  and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt
• 33:19
  and I'm not going to be adding to my investment,
• 33:21
  but you know, it's not killing me.
• 33:23
  I don't know, maybe that's your mentality.
• 33:26
  Maybe you're like, look, there's actually a really
• 33:28
  way better opportunity over here where I'm actually
• 33:30
  going to sell my shares and cut my losses.
• 33:31
  Like it's, yeah.
• 33:33
  So it's completely dependent on you,
• 33:35
  but I personally, it's kind of like a meme stock to me.
• 33:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I don't, like,
• 33:40
  basically, stocks, yeah.
• 33:41
  But you will just see if you do own shares in all birds,
• 33:44
  you'll just see like the code change at the ticker change.
• 33:48
  Sorry, the ticker will say the same,
• 33:49
  but the company name will change.
• 33:51
  So the company, you won't have to really do anything,
• 33:53
  you'll just, you know, hold you,
• 33:55
  but you'll be like massively diluted as well.
• 33:58
  So what you, what you thought you owned
• 33:59
  is a percentage of the company and all of that, yeah.
• 34:02
  Part of me is like, they kind of know how to play the game.
• 34:03
  Like they, they IPO when it was peak sustainability,
• 34:07
  you know, save the planet, all of that.
• 34:09
  And they, they, they listed then and everyone,
• 34:11
  like, where are the stupid ones that buy the shares?
• 34:14
  You know, and then they do it again.
• 34:16
  And people do the same thing.
• 34:18
  It's like, where is she?
• 34:19
  What they know is there the moment
• 34:21
  where they take money and for investors.
• 34:23
  And part of me is like, well,
• 34:25
  when you IPOed all birds,
• 34:27
  that was probably a bit of a peak of a bubble of sustainability,
• 34:30
  you know, like, I mean, we still,
• 34:32
  we still are focusing on investing
• 34:34
  with sustainability, lends it all that,
• 34:35
  but there was like a lot of hype around it then.
• 34:38
  And then kind of COVID screwed all that up.
• 34:40
  And then now I'm like, is this,
• 34:43
  is this company going to be like the bubble trigger?
• 34:46
  You know, is this kind of, maybe it is?
• 34:48
  I don't know. Yeah.
• 34:49
  I'm quite excited to watch this one.
• 34:51
  I will say.
• 34:51
  Yes, yeah.
• 34:57
  There's been a bit of a bit of research out recently as well
• 35:00
  around women and entrepreneurship.
• 35:03
  You know, I just thought it was us.
• 35:06
  We're being reported on statistics of healthcare.
• 35:10
  But use women now own over 40% of all US businesses.
• 35:14
  That's so impressive.
• 35:15
  Yeah.
• 35:16
  Employing 13 million people in generating
• 35:18
  three trillion in revenue.
• 35:21
  Like, we punch above our weight.
• 35:23
  That's amazing.
• 35:24
  I guess reading beyond that headline,
• 35:26
  it's the reasoning that people think
• 35:29
  that is behind that is that the workplace
• 35:31
  hasn't been created for women.
• 35:33
  The corporate kind of leadership pathways
• 35:36
  have been pretty slow for women
• 35:37
  and not encouraging, not supportive.
• 35:39
  So it's like, you know, if something doesn't work for us,
• 35:41
  we'll create our own way.
• 35:43
  And I think it's really, really interesting to see
• 35:46
  that between 2022 and 2025,
• 35:49
  the number of women owned businesses
• 35:51
  grew by 12% which was nearly double the rate of men.
• 35:54
  That's so cool.
• 35:54
  So we like taking charge.
• 35:56
  I love it.
• 35:56
  It's like, screw it.
• 35:58
  If you won't provide a real great support system
• 36:00
  in a corporate workplace,
• 36:01
  or even a non-corporate workplace,
• 36:03
  like we'll create our own businesses.
• 36:05
  And people want flexibility now.
• 36:07
  Especially if they're parents,
• 36:08
  they want to have autonomy over their own time.
• 36:10
  They know they've got a ceiling if they're in a corporate.
• 36:13
  And so if they're not getting the flexibility
• 36:16
  that they need in a workplace,
• 36:18
  we get much creative about it.
• 36:19
  It's also much easier work, easier.
• 36:22
  I'm like, it's so easy.
• 36:25
  It's so terrible.
• 36:26
  Easier is not the right word, but it's much better alternative
• 36:30
  to creating wealth instead of just getting a pay rise
• 36:33
  at a job every year.
• 36:35
  The way that you create wealth is by investing
• 36:38
  and owning businesses.
• 36:40
  So I completely agree with you.
• 36:42
  And I think this is something that I don't know.
• 36:44
  I've been thinking about off-mic in my own time
• 36:48
  because I agree.
• 36:49
  But I also think we are kind of glorifying the idea of business
• 36:54
  as if it's you can just make wealth in business.
• 36:57
  Because yes, you're right.
• 36:59
  It is a big bit and it can sometimes really pay off.
• 37:02
  But it also can be really detrimental
• 37:05
  if you don't know what you're doing.
• 37:06
  Or you don't, it's not a successful business
• 37:08
  and you've taken it alone.
• 37:09
  And I'm definitely not trying to put the fear of God
• 37:12
  or make people feel, but I do think lately
• 37:14
  we've spoken a lot about work for yourself, work for yourself.
• 37:17
  It's also unbelievably stressful and can go terribly wrong.
• 37:21
  So I think there's probably worth just saying,
• 37:24
  I think this is so impressive.
• 37:25
  And it's amazing to see this many.
• 37:27
  Female starting businesses.
• 37:29
  I just think that it's interesting to me as well.
• 37:33
  I was kind of looking at all of the,
• 37:36
  you know, because we speak a lot
• 37:37
  on the podcast about venture capital businesses.
• 37:40
  So this is essentially like really high growth businesses
• 37:43
  often at stuff like tech platforms or whatever.
• 37:45
  They get backed by these big,
• 37:46
  what is called like VCs.
• 37:48
  And there's about 2% of that funding
• 37:50
  that goes to female businesses.
• 37:51
  It's dropped to 1.8.
• 37:52
  Oh, sorry, it's dropped to 2.8.
• 37:54
  It's stunning, stunning, stunning.
• 37:55
  So basically, that's because of AI.
• 37:58
  But if you imagine like a average VC backed startup founder,
• 38:02
  it's generally like a 35 year old white man
• 38:07
  from like an Ivy League school.
• 38:09
  That's generally the sort of like founders that they'll back.
• 38:13
  I don't know, I wanted to just like speak about the facts
• 38:16
  that most of these businesses we're talking about.
• 38:18
  Like there's that, I can't remember what the stat was,
• 38:20
  you just said, but like a lot of them are self-funded.
• 38:23
  They're like maybe slower growers.
• 38:25
  They're not going for these like enormous sort of
• 38:28
  unicorn businesses.
• 38:29
  Is that there's so much in this like right?
• 38:32
  Because like venture capital is what goes into like funding ideas
• 38:36
  or like, you know, things that haven't even got off the ground.
• 38:39
  Like and then you get into private equity,
• 38:40
  which is like when it's an actual business, it's not public yet.
• 38:43
  But there's actually revenue and assets.
• 38:44
  So venture capital is like very, very, very, very high risk.
• 38:48
  But the payoff can be massive.
• 38:50
  Like if you got into Facebook and it's early days or something,
• 38:53
  yes, there's only like such a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny
• 38:57
  percent of that goes to women.
• 38:59
  But there's also women on the other side not making those
• 39:02
  decisions of where the money goes.
• 39:03
  And that's also really important.
• 39:05
  So there is, yes, you've got majority men on one side
• 39:11
  where they're running or owning the businesses
• 39:13
  or asking for money from these VCs.
• 39:15
  But then you've also gone flip side, got VCs that are run
• 39:18
  by majority men, you know, making those decisions.
• 39:20
  So of course they're going to look at something that's familiar
• 39:22
  to them or that like speaks their language or like,
• 39:25
  you know, like 100%.
• 39:26
  So it's like it's both sides of the coin, right?
• 39:29
  And so, but also what you were saying before, around...
• 39:34
  Like I'm backing at themselves,
• 39:36
  first general backing.
• 39:37
  Well, I think also it's taking a step back
• 39:41
  because I think there's two.
• 39:42
  There's like owning a business which you could buy
• 39:45
  and on or you could start one yourself.
• 39:48
  Yeah.
• 39:49
  And I think there's kind of like there's two avenues to that.
• 39:52
  And if we take the like starting an idea from scratch
• 39:55
  and building your own business, yes,
• 39:57
  fucking hard.
• 39:58
  And it's like exhausting.
• 39:59
  And the risks that you take, the funding you need,
• 40:02
  all of that.
• 40:03
  But with anything, right?
• 40:05
  If you don't take a risk, you don't get the reward.
• 40:07
  It's like within besting.
• 40:08
  If you just want to invest in the boring stuff
• 40:10
  that doesn't really move the needle or a term deposit,
• 40:12
  whatever, you're not going to get a good return.
• 40:14
  If you're like, right, I'm actually going to take a bit of risk.
• 40:15
  You know, it's like anything in life.
• 40:17
  On the flip side, if you're like buying a business,
• 40:19
  I think there is, it is less risky
• 40:22
  because you're buying an established business.
• 40:24
  You still, you still control it all
• 40:26
  and you have to make those decisions
• 40:27
  and it'll level dies by you essentially.
• 40:30
  But you're not just getting a salary,
• 40:32
  you're kind of getting the profit as well.
• 40:33
  And so I think that's the kind of thing
• 40:35
  with like buying a business is you get,
• 40:38
  you get the lift over.
• 40:39
  Like we're seeing the return boss or whatever.
• 40:41
  Yes, yes.
• 40:42
  It's like you have the value in the asset.
• 40:44
  Yeah.
• 40:44
  And you have a control if it does well or not.
• 40:47
  And I think that's, you know, like when you're in a paid work
• 40:51
  or you're employed,
• 40:52
  you're kind of at the mercy of your boss
• 40:54
  and what they will or won't accept pay.
• 40:55
  Or they could, you know, cut you tomorrow.
• 40:58
  We didn't cut Lucy.
• 41:01
  You know, like it's like, whereas I think it's kind of
• 41:03
  the ownership piece, right?
• 41:04
  It's like you can own something,
• 41:06
  you can therefore dictate how well or bad it does.
• 41:09
  For women that you get sick of asking for a pay rise,
• 41:12
  you get sick of asking for, you know, being paid shit.
• 41:15
  So if your boss is like, sorry, sorry, sorry,
• 41:17
  it's like, cool, I'm just going to go create one myself.
• 41:19
  Yeah, yeah.
• 41:20
  I'm going to create a competitor and be like, you know,
• 41:22
  so it's like, if you keep, I don't know,
• 41:24
  I really, I really loved the stack because I was like,
• 41:27
  yes, finally, it's like taking control
• 41:29
  rather than just sitting here being like,
• 41:31
  poor us, it's like, no, we're going to change.
• 41:33
  And as all of those businesses that these women are creating,
• 41:37
  40% of all US businesses employing 13 million people.
• 41:41
  Amazing.
• 41:42
  I don't know the stats around this,
• 41:43
  but I'm pretty sure that there's probably very little gender pay gap
• 41:46
  in those businesses.
• 41:47
  Yeah, 100%.
• 41:49
  I'm sorry.
• 41:50
  No, no, no, I shouldn't have.
• 41:52
  No, I think the interesting thing as well is like,
• 41:54
  like, woman in the workforce,
• 41:56
  there's like 44% or something.
• 41:59
  But the difference comes when people are at like a high level
• 42:03
  and they're paid a lot of money.
• 42:04
  That's where it really drops, like 30%
• 42:06
  because a lot of us have to shake time out for certain things.
• 42:09
  But obviously starting your own business means that
• 42:13
  you're kind of at the top.
• 42:14
  You have control over what you're paid.
• 42:16
  You know, you're able to sort of not go back into a more junior role.
• 42:20
  Like, I think there's lots of things here.
• 42:22
  But I think it will be super interesting to see how businesses,
• 42:25
  corporates, if there's all these women leaving jobs to go and start businesses.
• 42:30
  And they're already struggling with female retention and diversity
• 42:33
  and like us being in the workforce.
• 42:34
  Like, how are they going to combat this?
• 42:35
  Because it's so many of us are leaving
• 42:38
  because they're not being promoted or paid well.
• 42:40
  There's, you know, it's just, yeah.
• 42:42
  And the whole flexibility thing, you're right.
• 42:44
  Exactly. Like, the reason that women,
• 42:46
  there's 44% of women, the workforce,
• 42:48
  only 31% in VP level is because
• 42:50
  you get to that level and you get less flexibility.
• 42:53
  And so that's a big thing is flexibility.
• 42:55
  We're going down to four days or
• 42:58
  how you can actually leave it.
• 43:00
  I need to leave it 5pm to go pick up kids or 3pm.
• 43:03
  Well, you know, like all of that just comes,
• 43:05
  I want to craft the business that I want to create.
• 43:10
  For the life I want to leave.
• 43:11
  Not, yeah, I don't know.
• 43:12
  100% anyway, God.
• 43:14
  But yeah, I'm glad there's change that's been, you know,
• 43:17
  taking the reins into our own hands.
• 43:18
  Me too.
• 43:19
  It's really exciting.
• 43:20
  It's great. It's great.
• 43:21
  Now, we got an email from the community,
• 43:24
  which is kind of an interesting one to read out if I'm being honest.
• 43:28
  I want to know you're of you on this.
• 43:29
  I'm almost wondering it feels like kind of weird
• 43:32
  for one of us to read this.
• 43:33
  Emily, would you mind grabbing the mic?
• 43:36
  Because I'll produce the Emily for anyone that
• 43:38
  doesn't listen to the podcast regularly.
• 43:40
  Could you read this out?
• 43:41
  And then, yeah, let's discuss afterwards.
• 43:44
  Because it is, it's kind of it.
• 43:46
  I don't know if controversial is the right word,
• 43:47
  but sort of.
• 43:49
  Okay, here we go.
• 43:51
  Hello, I really wanted to share my reactions
• 43:53
  to the previous episode,
• 43:54
  because I think it might be really helpful to hear.
• 43:57
  This podcast has taught me so much,
• 43:58
  and I'm so grateful for the work that you do.
• 44:01
  In light of that, it would feel a mess not to reach out.
• 44:03
  I know that you both really appreciate
• 44:05
  constructive feedback.
• 44:06
  I like we do, but like we do.
• 44:08
  We do miss.
• 44:09
  We do miss.
• 44:14
  In the last episode,
• 44:14
  Vic made a comment about focusing on broader investment trends,
• 44:17
  including prediction markets and defense,
• 44:19
  presenting defense investing is something worth considering.
• 44:22
  This was followed up with ethical investing is so personal,
• 44:25
  which I've heard Vic say a few times now
• 44:27
  when ethically dicey topics like this come up.
• 44:30
  For me, this is often come across as a way
• 44:32
  to broadly defend any investment and has sadly shut down
• 44:35
  what is a really needed conversation.
• 44:37
  I know nothing said on the show is financial advice,
• 44:39
  but Vic is positioned as an expert.
• 44:41
  When safe questions ethically complex investment areas
• 44:44
  and is met with ethical investing is so personal,
• 44:47
  it really feels like a miss opportunity
• 44:48
  for more critical engagement with those decisions
• 44:51
  or values aligned investing more broadly.
• 44:53
  Women have so much to bring to the finance space,
• 44:55
  and I really feel one of those things
• 44:57
  is a greater emphasis on empathy and care for the world.
• 45:00
  The perception that wanting money makes you a bad person,
• 45:03
  or the money and ethics simply don't mix,
• 45:05
  is part of what pushes many women away
• 45:07
  from engaging with finance at all.
• 45:09
  The curve has a real opportunity to model
• 45:11
  that you could be rigorous about investing
• 45:12
  and thoughtful about its impact on the world at the same time.
• 45:16
  Platforming only one perspective and labeling ethics
• 45:18
  as personal is a miss opportunity,
• 45:21
  and I say that as someone who really loves
• 45:22
  and supports this podcast.
• 45:24
  I hope this lands as the constructive feedback
• 45:26
  it is intended to be,
• 45:28
  and I'm really interested to hear your thoughts.
• 45:30
  Thank you for everything you do.
• 45:31
  So I read this email and I thought,
• 45:34
  sure, it's kind of called out in a way,
• 45:36
  but I also thought,
• 45:38
  it's a, I understand what she's saying,
• 45:41
  because here we are trying to deliver financial content
• 45:45
  and investing news and helping people make decisions.
• 45:49
  And then when it comes to ethical investing,
• 45:52
  we obviously can't make decisions
• 45:53
  on behalf of our audience, right?
• 45:55
  We can't tell people what's good and bad
• 45:57
  or what to invest in or not,
• 45:58
  like we're not a financial advice platform.
• 46:00
  So it's really hard,
• 46:02
  because I understand that these things are complex.
• 46:05
  But it also did just make me think,
• 46:06
  I do wonder if we should think about bringing in more,
• 46:11
  more content on this or more other people
• 46:14
  that could speak to it really specifically,
• 46:16
  because it's a part of investing,
• 46:17
  it's so much investing, right?
• 46:19
  And we can't all be experts on everything.
• 46:22
  I don't know, I'm keen to hear your thoughts on it.
• 46:24
  You know, it's, yeah, I was kind of the same.
• 46:26
  I was like, it is such a tricky one to navigate
• 46:28
  because you're also trying to not make it more overwhelming
• 46:32
  for people yet,
• 46:34
  when you throw the kind of ethical investing
• 46:36
  spanner into the works,
• 46:39
  it does polarise a lot of people
• 46:41
  because everyone's ethics are different, right?
• 46:46
  And we've had debates on the podcast.
• 46:47
  We've had debates of like, I wouldn't have seen that.
• 46:49
  I would, like, and that's so healthy.
• 46:51
  And it's the same with,
• 46:52
  if you weren't even thinking about ethics,
• 46:54
  you know, there'd be some things
• 46:55
  that you want to invest in or some things you don't,
• 46:56
  like, you might think that new birds is going to be great.
• 46:59
  And I'm like, it won't be, you know, and that's fine.
• 47:01
  And there is something for everyone to invest in.
• 47:04
  But and then you throw on the ethics layer
• 47:06
  and it just, it creates so much
• 47:10
  overwhelmed for people
• 47:11
  because there isn't some place you can go
• 47:14
  to be like, is this ethical?
• 47:16
  Is this not?
• 47:17
  Because they've run different.
• 47:18
  So it's, it's really, really tricky.
• 47:20
  And yes, there's ETFs that are sustainability focused
• 47:24
  or in social impact focus.
• 47:26
  So, you know, there's different pockets of
• 47:28
  where people's ethics are quite similar.
• 47:31
  They've tried to create products for that.
• 47:33
  But they're not going to be perfect.
• 47:34
  And and it's the same with non-ethical funds as well.
• 47:37
  You know, there's things that you might not want to invest in
• 47:39
  because you don't agree with.
• 47:40
  But that's kind of what you put to one side
• 47:43
  when you invest in this.
• 47:43
  So it's, it is a really tricky space.
• 47:46
  But yeah, I think it is bringing in new, new voices,
• 47:50
  you know, having podcasts that are detailed
• 47:53
  on just the ethical side of investment,
• 47:54
  not the financial side.
• 47:56
  But we do bring that financial lens.
• 47:58
  And with any financial investment,
• 48:00
  I do try to, or any company that we talk about,
• 48:03
  do try to give both sides, you know,
• 48:04
  because it is, yeah, we're not advice.
• 48:07
  We want to give you around the facts.
• 48:08
  But we also don't want to overwhelm people.
• 48:10
  So it's really, it's really tricky balance.
• 48:12
  Yeah, I think the overwhelm piece is quite interesting
• 48:14
  and so true because also women are inherently the ones
• 48:18
  that think in a really empathetic way
• 48:22
  or think about how this is going to impact people
• 48:25
  or the planet or animals, you know,
• 48:27
  and when you've already got such an underrepresentation
• 48:30
  and investing in general,
• 48:31
  and then you add the ethics layer
• 48:32
  and then people feel like, well, I just don't want to invest at all.
• 48:35
  It's almost like the AI issue that we have
• 48:37
  where there's so many men that are engaging with AI,
• 48:41
  building AI, and on the one hand,
• 48:43
  yeah, it's terrible for the planet.
• 48:44
  On the other, if these LLM models are being trained
• 48:47
  by only men, they're going to be biased,
• 48:50
  women are going to be left further behind.
• 48:51
  But then there's also like,
• 48:53
  you say AI's bad for the planet,
• 48:54
  but it's so good for so many other things.
• 48:56
  So it's like, again, when you draw that line, right?
• 48:59
  And it's, oh, it's just so, it's really complex.
• 49:02
  I think what I want to say to an honest,
• 49:04
  who we will not her name is firstly, thank you for your email
• 49:08
  because I, especially if you enjoy the podcast,
• 49:10
  probably giving feedback,
• 49:12
  like that would have been like touching go.
• 49:14
  And we also could have been like,
• 49:15
  and she said it in a really beautiful way,
• 49:17
  like I told you,
• 49:18
  you're giving us feedback, please,
• 49:20
  shits amateur because we read it and get upset.
• 49:23
  No, no, no, but I think my point is like,
• 49:26
  you're right.
• 49:27
  This is something that we should dive into more.
• 49:29
  We should get some ethical voices to speak to this more
• 49:31
  specifically.
• 49:32
  It's obviously really of interest to our audience.
• 49:35
  And thank you for highlighting it,
• 49:37
  being kind of a patch that we probably need to fill
• 49:40
  with experts in the space.
• 49:41
  And I think it's like an exercise of maybe writing down,
• 49:45
  you know, what will you invest in
• 49:47
  and creating your own kind of like ethical boundaries
• 49:51
  that you can then go and try and invest in that way.
• 49:54
  But me telling you what they are is so difficult.
• 49:57
  And so, yeah, it's not a cop out.
• 50:00
  It's literally like a nuanced conversation.
• 50:02
  Yes, so nuanced.
• 50:03
  And I genuinely wish there was a platform
• 50:05
  that you could type in a company
• 50:06
  and it could tell you yes or no,
• 50:08
  but that doesn't exist unfortunately.
• 50:10
  Emily, thank you for your email.
• 50:12
  We had another piece of feedback kind of,
• 50:15
  which I, and it sounds really nice
• 50:17
  to stick to wanna read this out,
• 50:18
  but I am so proud that someone noticed this.
• 50:22
  So for anyone that's listened to this podcast for a while,
• 50:25
  they will know I show up most of the time,
• 50:28
  having had a quick little skim over the research,
• 50:30
  not paying a huge amount of attention
• 50:32
  week to week with what's happening in the news.
• 50:34
  And I've decided recently that that's actually not good enough.
• 50:37
  I can't just sit here and be like,
• 50:38
  tell me more, oh really?
• 50:40
  Like, I know enough now about investing
• 50:42
  to be able to take part in these conversations.
• 50:44
  I should be bringing more research views to anyway.
• 50:47
  Last week, I made such an effort.
• 50:49
  I spent like two hours looking through the stories
• 50:52
  and like having a think about it.
• 50:54
  And we got this note.
• 50:55
  And I was just like, shit yeah.
• 50:57
  Okay, it says,
• 50:59
  I really wanted to give a shout out to Sophie,
• 51:00
  not only is she asking smart questions,
• 51:02
  but also doing her own research
• 51:04
  and bringing interesting facts and stats to the table.
• 51:06
  I just finished listening to this week's
• 51:08
  Curve Weekly episode.
• 51:09
  Her speaking was sim from Frontier Invest
• 51:11
  on her podcast was also very aspirational.
• 51:13
  How much she's achieved over these last few years.
• 51:15
  And I just thought, just so cool, someone noticed.
• 51:18
  Because I did it and I was like, I bet people won't notice.
• 51:21
  Like, what's the point?
• 51:22
  You know, it's not really my role on the podcast.
• 51:24
  But, you know, if people don't draw it,
• 51:26
  maybe it'll motivate me to keep doing it.
• 51:28
  It's kind of fun to be able to bring different aspects.
• 51:30
  Because maybe when I turn up,
• 51:31
  with like, not her research anything,
• 51:33
  it'll be quite nice.
• 51:34
  Yeah, thanks everyone so much for like listening
• 51:36
  and sharing feedback and thoughts.
• 51:38
  And it's definitely like for us,
• 51:40
  we want to make sure that the content is always
• 51:43
  well-rounded, well-researched,
• 51:44
  that we're bringing in different voices
• 51:47
  and diversifying what we talk about.
• 51:48
  So it really helps knowing what you want to hear more of.
• 51:51
  So we're reveal listening.
• 51:53
  If you've got like thoughts or feedback,
• 51:55
  we would love for you to rate the show,
• 51:57
  give it a review, leave comments, we're reveal listening it.
• 52:00
  So helpful for us to be able to grow
• 52:01
  and better the content.
• 52:03
  So yeah, thank you for listening
• 52:05
  and for all of your feedback.
• 52:06
  And have a great week.
• 52:08
  Thank you.
• 52:10
  Thank you so much for listening to The Curve Weekly.
• 52:12
  Make sure you hit subscribe or follow wherever you're listening.
• 52:14
  So you're always up to date with the latest finance and investing news.
• 52:17
  And feel free to leave a comment
• 52:18
  to let us know what you thought about this episode
• 52:20
  because we would love your feedback.
• 52:22
  We've got new Curve Weekly episodes for you
• 52:23
  to listen to every Monday.
• 52:25
  But until then,
• 52:26
  listen to a raise in the curve.
• 52:27
  These are our in-depth podcast episodes
• 52:29
  where we chat about all things money.
• 52:30
  We're also around all week on socials
• 52:32
  if you're hungry for more curve content
• 52:34
  and all the links are in this podcast show notes.
• 52:36
  We hope you have a great week
• 52:37
  and we'll catch you for the next episode
• 52:39
  of The Curve Weekly on Monday.
• 52:42
  Okay, quickly, the curve was created to empower
• 52:50
  and educate you about investing
• 52:52
  but we are not financial advisors.
• 52:54
  Our platform exists for educational purposes only
• 52:56
  and it doesn't provide personalized
• 52:58
  investing advice for your individual needs
• 53:00
  and should not be relied upon to make
• 53:01
  an investment or financial decision.
• 53:03
  And always remember to do your own research
• 53:05
  before making any investment or financial decision.
• 53:08
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• 53:10
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• 53:12
  And thanks for being here.
• 53:13
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• 53:14
  Yeah, we know you got this.